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7HL
May. 15, 2012, 03:29 PM
How many on here have the privledge of owning a Foundation QH?



My Holly - Hollys Classic Bayb

93% Foundation - AQHA - FQHA - NFQHA Registered

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/hollys+classic+bayb

http://www.fqha.com/FQHA%20Horse%20Photos/FQHA%20horses/913-HOLLYS_CLASSIC_BAYB.jpg

SuckerForHorses
May. 15, 2012, 03:38 PM
How would I tell? Here is his pedigree. I know that there are some old lines in there (Driftwood for example) but I honestly have no idea.

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/el+lar+bluedriftwood

farmgirl598
May. 15, 2012, 03:54 PM
Cody's Mom was foundation....don't know about his Dad, but Sire is Peponita's Pine (well known reining/cutting horse) from Charles City, Va...
If I recall correctly, Cody's Dam (Ima Saucy Skip) had in her background.....Skipper, Smart Little Lena, Plaudit, etc. There were some big names in her pedigree, but I don't have the papers in front of me, and don't have a great memory.

SAcres
May. 15, 2012, 03:58 PM
Also wondering how one would tell if their horse is Foundation.

I've gotten comments that my gelding does not have some of the typical QH features of today, and other comments that he has some distinctly foundation bred characteristics, such as his roman nose. :confused:

Personally I think he's just a very badly bred QH (he has some significant conformational faults...but I love him all the same).

Photo of him: http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2488/4211665550_15399c057f_o.jpg

Please ignore the mud, safety hazards, whatever else is in the picture, we're no longer at that barn. ;)

Lineage: http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/bidder+win

7HL
May. 15, 2012, 04:15 PM
Certification requirements for NFQHA

http://nfqha.com/index_files/page7.htm

http://fqha.com/articles/Calculating%20your%20horse's%20Foundation%20Quarte r%20Horses%20percentage.htm

Calculating your horses foundation percentage for FQHA


The method used by Foundation Quarter Horses Association is simple. It is easy for anyone to determine their horses Foundation percentage themselves. You just need a basic working knowledge of fractions and percentages. The system is based on a single concept - Thoroughbred blood which is added into a horse’s pedigree for horses registered with AQHA in 1941 or later subtracts from that horses percentage of foundation Quarter Horse blood. It’s that simple.

My mare is only 93% because 7 generations back, 3 times there is TB in her lineage. One of the times it is Three Bars, which doesn't count as much against the calculations, by the foundation registries.

farmgirl598
May. 15, 2012, 04:24 PM
this is my gelding's half brother, on sire's side.

http://www.breeding-stallions.com/stallion999.html

Ironically, I did not know about this stallion until today. Another one named Cody! LOL

farmgirl598
May. 15, 2012, 04:38 PM
I found my gelding's sire's pedigree online:

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/peponitas+pine

Beverley
May. 15, 2012, 06:16 PM
Shoot, percentages aside my mare is so foundation you can follow her all the way back through Diomed, Eclipse and others to TB foundation (Darley Arabian, Byerly Turk):

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/skippa+sugar+bo

My gelding is appendix and therefore technically not 'foundation' (Poco Bueno and Pacific Bailey lines)-- but I could get him all the way back to qh origins too, but he's not on all breed pedigree and I haven't gotten around to putting it there.

quarterhorse4me
May. 15, 2012, 06:30 PM
I have two foundation and one appendix. Ironically you would never know my appendix had any TB in him. He is such a bulldog.

SwampYankee
May. 15, 2012, 06:35 PM
My coming-5 strawberry roan filly; Doc Bar high side, Hancock blood on her mom's. As the old English saying used to go, "Head of a lady, farewell like a COOK!"

Probably should have named her "Gloria Peterbilt!" :D

7HL
May. 15, 2012, 09:01 PM
percentages aside my mare is so foundation


Lots of nice horses, but both foundation registrations look for an 80% to be considered foundation.

UrbanHennery
May. 16, 2012, 10:08 PM
Big D, the horse in my signature, is 90% foundation.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/lynx+dox+sox

If I ever came across a part sibling to him I'd be very very tempted. He's a great guy, and only a trail horse rather than a reiner/cutter due to bad LH suspensories (injury).

Calena
May. 16, 2012, 10:32 PM
Raises hand! My girl's registered with the FQHR and she has King-P234 on her papers:

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/squeeky+clean+lena

29 years old and no arthritis :). Foundation = tough as nails

BeaSting
May. 17, 2012, 04:27 AM
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/bea+sting+blair

My old broodmare - (best horse ever!) was 96.875% foundation, with Three Bars knocking her down. Had to euthanize her last fall due to arthritis. I ride one of her appaloosa daughters, who obviously doesn't qualify.

OveroHunter
May. 17, 2012, 09:13 AM
We have a few and have had many more over the years including one that was something like 97% - 99% Foundation... She was also one of the most freaking insane horses we ever had on the farm :confused:

She was the most heavily Foundation bred horse we ever had, but all the others were a lot better than her :)

zipperfoot
May. 17, 2012, 11:24 AM
We have one (AQHA, but not registered foundation--yet): 10 yr old gelding, grandson of Smart Little Lena out of a Dry Doc mare. He's terrific--quiet, virtually bomb-proof, with just enough get up and go to be fun. Typical foundation conformation--14.2, WIDE--but moves out long and smooth. Sweet boy!

KSAQHA
May. 17, 2012, 03:29 PM
After fiddling with the "easy" formula for over 15 minutes, I've once again proven to myself I completely suck at math. :sigh:

Anyway, the mare in my profile pic is foundation bred. No TB until five generations back, then Three Bars.

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/lotsa+freckled+flax

Have a question about allbreedpedigree site, since I've seldom used it - can just anyone fill out these pedigrees?

OveroHunter
May. 17, 2012, 04:01 PM
Have a question about allbreedpedigree site, since I've seldom used it - can just anyone fill out these pedigrees?

Yep, anyone can add a horse, but they cannot edit an existing horse.

KSAQHA
May. 17, 2012, 05:45 PM
Yep, anyone can add a horse, but they cannot edit an existing horse.Well, interesting enough, the pedigree was slightly incomplete and allowed me to add the remaining bottom side info, without being signed in. It would not allow me to edit her height, which isn't correct.

I don't honestly recall ever registering there or entering pedigrees for any of my horses and this particular mare is the only one on there, other than a paint mare I sold a couple of years ago...I suppose the current owner could have entered her info.

7HL
May. 17, 2012, 06:36 PM
To pull accurate and true pedigrees you really need to get them from the actual registry sites.

While there are many quality unregistered quarter horses out there, they are only regarded as grade horses.

Many of the pedigrees on allbreedpedigree site are incomplete. Some of the horses listed do not have reqistration numbers, as an example. The pedigrees on there aren't proof of anything. Someone can create a pedigree there, that is totally false.

Both foundation registries use the AQHA pedigrees.

UrbanHennery
May. 17, 2012, 10:32 PM
Mine, above, is registered both AQHA and FQHA. I took the % foundation off his papers. All breed pedigree is as accurate as whoever entered the info, that said, it's matched the papers of all the horses I've checked in the past.

Ambitious Kate
May. 17, 2012, 11:14 PM
Allbreed has matched all the horses I have ever checked against AQHA, if that's any standard. I personally know many people who spend hundreds of hours a month checking and double checking what is posted on allbreed, and making corrections, contacting the people who make the postings to verify what they posted and making more corrections so that the datatbase is as acurate as possible.

My best friend, growing up had a horse, Hancock Venture. He was race bred on the top, and ranch bred on the bottom. He was really, physically, quintessential cow horse in personality, smarts and ability. He did race, and I acknowlege his Three Bars blood, but the foundation blood in his pedigree is undeniable, fi by foundation blood you mean ranch bred.

carp
May. 18, 2012, 12:16 AM
My gelding is roughly 88% foundation. All but one of the post 1939 Thoroughbred crossings came via Three Bars.

These days can one even find a Quarter Horse without Three Bars in the lineage somewhere?

7HL
May. 18, 2012, 07:29 AM
fi by foundation blood you mean ranch bred.

Yes & No. It is about verifible bloodline.

Both registries I believe still enforce the "white rule". Both have restrictions on Impressive in bloodlines.

from FQHA:


Further Registration Information: Descendants of the AQHA stallion Impressive are not eligible for FQHA registration, neither are horses which have any of the following genetic disorders - cryptorchidism, parrot mouth, or that are known to carry the gene for HYPP, or Lethal White Overo

my buddy's blue
May. 21, 2012, 09:45 PM
Snow is 98% foundation but can't be reg with them because he is a cremello. His full sister is a palomino is reg 98%. Our cutting mare is over the moon foundation great little horse.

Calamber
May. 21, 2012, 10:33 PM
This is my fellow, I have no clue if he is foundation bred, the only TB I know in his lineage is Joe Reed, while I am no expert on QHs, I do know something about TBs. If you click on the photos in the pedigree he looks just like his sire. Too bad they did not treat him better, I am just now starting him at 7 years old.

I have been told this color is a grulla buckskin? Is that correct? He dapples on his barrel with a spider web type of design. Very fancy.

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/quick+silvers+quincy

zipperfoot
May. 21, 2012, 10:44 PM
The color is either grulla OR buckskin, not grulla buckskin. Sire looks buckskin to me. Grulla is more mouse colored, with dark points. The one I had also had a dorsal stripe and stripes on his legs, but I don't know if that's characteristic of grullas or not, may be dun factor? I do know I used to get a lot of weird looks and comments about his color!

Beverley
May. 21, 2012, 11:24 PM
My mare is a grulla:

https://picasaweb.google.com/100310658467918237790/BlackhawkCampingAndRiding#5487669645314276370

and yes, it's basically in the dun spectrum, with dorsal stripe and 'tiger stripes' on the legs.

Calamber
May. 22, 2012, 12:12 AM
Well he is decidedly dappled, not sure if that is indicative of a recessive gene or not.

According to an article that was included with his papers, written by Paula Zdenek in Horse and Rider of 2003 called

Trend Report "Horse of a Different Color" and I quote from a boxed area on page 60 titled:

'Primitive Indeed'

"Dun-factor horse (those with so-called primitive markings, such as dorsal stripes and leg barring) have been around at least since the Ice Age. Prehistoric cave paintings show equines bearing these distinctive markings. Perhaps because of the ancient roots of a dun-factor coloration horses with such coloring have typically been associated with toughness and hardiness, and were believed by horsemen of the Old West to be capable of traveling great distances on little forage.

"These colors are ancient," affirms Dr. Phil Sponenberg DVM, PhD, a leading expert in equine genetics at the Virginia-Maryland Regional College of Veterinary Medicine. He adds that there's been no scientific study of the hardiness of modern-day dun factor horses. "Still," he notes, "the horses first bearing these colors came from pretty hard environments."

Today's dun-factor colors are zebra dun (often simply "dun") red dun, and grulla. Zebra duns look much like buckskin but with primitive markings.

My horse does not have zebra markings, he does have a darker neck and barrel and hip area, just like his sire, and in addition he has those spider web dapples in the early spring, lightens in the summer. His head becomes darker in the winter also. He does not have a dorsal stripe so he is clearly some kind of buckskin but he does not have a consistent coloring throughout his coat. All I know is that he is fancy looking which was good for him, and he is hardy because he was caught under a wall overnight, pinned at his hips, then the people did not call the vet for 2 days by which point he was toxic with infection. That he lived to be a good looking well put together horse, with a puckered scar on one flank and a muscle deficit under the opposite hip bone the size of your fist testifies to his hardiness since I did get his vet reports and talked to the vet, in her notes she gave him a poor prognosis for survival. He moves pretty well for all of that.

Anyone have a clue about being a foundation bred horse or not?

7HL
May. 22, 2012, 12:25 AM
What is a foundation?

http://nfqha.com/index_files/page3.htm

and...


NFQHA show standards.


NFQHA’s show rules have been written with the goal of showcasing the working ability, and versatility, of the National Foundation Quarter Horse, and to provide a friendly, down to earth show atmosphere for National Foundation Quarter Horse owners. The emphasis is at all times on versatility, and no English events are sanctioned. The horses are to be shown in working condition, with natural manes and tails, and in servicable tack. Silver, glitter, and sequins are not allowed, and only the horse is judged, not the handler or rider. Because NFQHA promotes the using horse, blemishes and scars resulting from injury are not penalized.

http://www.nfqha.com/diff.html

Beverley
May. 22, 2012, 12:36 AM
Well,the dappling is independent of where a horse is on the color spectrum.

But dun v. buckskin is pretty simple: Presence or absence of the well defined dorsal stripe.

My appendix qh gelding is incorrectly registered as a 'red dun.' Really, he's a basic dun- yes, more of a reddish hue to his coat but black mane and tail and points.

https://picasaweb.google.com/100310658467918237790/SearchAndRecoveryMarch23252012?authkey=Gv1sRgCMGmw IGkm8GpzgE#5724044186186712194

But both he and the mare dapple up nicely in summer. And so did a dark bay tb I owned. And a liver chestnut mare. But not a buckskin, several other chestnuts, and a sabino.

Oops, sorry, I digress, maybe time for a color thread...

altermeup
May. 22, 2012, 07:54 AM
I don't have a FQH, but I'd like one in the future.

kwsbongo
May. 22, 2012, 12:42 PM
I have a 1/2 foundation mare :) lol. Own grand-daughter of Doc Wilson. Shame she is an appendix...........:(

7HL
May. 22, 2012, 06:12 PM
I have a 1/2 foundation mare :) lol. Own grand-daughter of Doc Wilson. Shame she is an appendix...........:(

It about percentages. In order for your horse to be 50% foundation, since it is an appendix, the quarter horse parent would have to be 100% foundation. No TB in the QH's lineage. There are very few of those living.

jumpsalot
May. 23, 2012, 09:36 AM
All of ours are FQH bred- not registered - yet. Funy thing is the one with the lowest percentage(88% or so) is the thickkest most bulldog looking one! He's Dun, to boot! LOL.

Vermilion
Jun. 14, 2012, 03:35 PM
We have foundation quarter horses. I say "we" but they're really the family horses. It was my mother's dream to breed, raise, and sell them. It didn't work out as a business, but it did give me the perfect horse.

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/rey+jasons+showdown

My heart horse is a 17yr old little foundation bred quarter horse stud. Grandson of Rey Jay (and probably one of the last around). His dam is a great-granddaughter of Wimpy. Best personality of any horse I've ever met (he gives the kids pony rides). We "grew up" together. When I lived at home, there was one sure place to find me before dinner and that was outside laying on his back staring at the stars, counting the satellites.

And not all of the foundation guys were built like bulldogs, but FQH's are the best. :)

Bacardi1
Jun. 14, 2012, 07:58 PM
Does "Impressive" count? I fully admit that I'm woefully ignorant about this sort of stuff, but I do own a son of "Impressive" (HYPP N/N thank goodness). While I don't have his papers in front of me at the moment, he'll be 22 in a few months & is still a lovely old man. I bought him from a sleazy meat auction - complete with his AQHA registry papers - back in 1997.

OveroHunter
Jun. 15, 2012, 10:21 AM
Does "Impressive" count? I fully admit that I'm woefully ignorant about this sort of stuff, but I do own a son of "Impressive" (HYPP N/N thank goodness). While I don't have his papers in front of me at the moment, he'll be 22 in a few months & is still a lovely old man. I bought him from a sleazy meat auction - complete with his AQHA registry papers - back in 1997.

Impressive bred horses wouldn't be considered foundation unless they had other foundation lines. There are a lot of people that do not like Impressive bred horses, but I personally have had great luck with HYPP N/N Impressive bred horses :) My heart horse goes back to him through his sire RH Mr Imprint.

7HL
Jun. 15, 2012, 11:21 AM
Impressive bred horses wouldn't be considered foundation unless they had other foundation lines. There are a lot of people that do not like Impressive bred horses, but I personally have had great luck with HYPP N/N Impressive bred horses :) My heart horse goes back to him through his sire RH Mr Imprint.





http://fqha.com/

Updated 6/12/2012

Further Registration Information:

Descendants of the AQHA stallion Impressive are not eligible for FQHA registration, neither are horses which have any of the following genetic disorders - cryptorchidism, parrot mouth, or that are known to carry the gene for HYPP, or Lethal White Overo





http://nfqha.com


Horses with Impressive in their pedigree must submit lab results,
with their application showing that they are HYPP N/N. (AQHA
papers showing the horse to be N/N are acceptable.)
NOTE: Not disclosing descent from Impressive will result in cancellation
of the NFQHA certificate and possible suspension of the
owner. Beginning 01/01/05 all horses descended from Impressive
must have HYPP N/N printed on their AQHA registration
papers.






.

Fillabeana
Jun. 15, 2012, 02:19 PM
Let me find my flame suit, here...
OK.
I think the whole "Foundation Quarter Horse" thing is a bunch of crap.

One qualification I have is that almost pure-TB horses have been registered through the Appendix program, qualifying horses into the main studbook with performance requirements met for 'Hunter Under Saddle' or 'Hunter Over Fences', which is absolutely NOT the physical type meant for a Quarter Horse, it is a Sporthorse body type. I think that was a poor move on the AQHA's part.

Another qualification that I can go for is the exclusion of any horse with a genetic (inherited) anomaly, such as HYPP. PSSM or HERDA. But nowadays we do not have to throw absolutely every 'tainted' pedigree out, we can DNA test for the presence, or absence, of a particular deleterious gene, and thus keep the genetic problems out of a breed.

White hair? Oh, please. My horse can have a blaze, but your horse with a wide blaze and a blue eye can't be registered. My red roan can be registered, but your sabino can't, because white hair is so deleterious to the breed... And I won't even go into the whole palomino/perlino thing, that is just too ridiculous.



But aside from that, the Thoroughbred has been used as a percentage part of the creation of a working stockhorse as long as there have been working stockhorses. A stockhorse (and also a Quarter Horse) is designed for short-distance racing, rodeo events (which are within themselves very short-distance racing events, some involving bovines) and cattle work. If it were not so, nobody would ever have considered an 'Appendix' registry in order to include the blood of registered Thorougbreds in the first place!

"Foundation" Quarter Horse sires such as Traveler, Little Joe, Peter McCue, Old Sorrel, Hickory Bill, Oklahoma Star, Joe Hancock, and Leo were all at least half TB themselves.

The King Ranch had a stockhorse breeding program predating the AQHA that used TB blood quite extensively: TB stallions Bold Venture, Chicaro, and Depth Charge are a few of the TBs that show up in old King Ranch breeding.

Now, the TB has also been very closely involved with the development of sporthorse type horses, too, designed for longer distance racing, foxhunting, and cavalry mounts (in past times) and olympic-sport mounts in more recent times. But this fact should not discourage the use of TB blood in the creation of a stockhorse...if the horse up for registry consideration is in fact a stockhorse type, who excels in stockhorse disciplines such as rodeo, cutting, etc.


But I think it's folly to exclude TB blood from QH breeding, in the name of 'keeping it pure' when the foundation quarter horses were also high percentage TB themselves.

A couple of things to peruse:
http://horsesonly.com/pursuits/articles/breeding/tbroots.htm

http://www.pedigreequery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30952&sid=1856fce4384160cbd3c2d99892ac4d35

OveroHunter
Jun. 15, 2012, 02:42 PM
You may not be able to register a horse that traces back to Impressive with the FQHA, but if you breed a foundation mare to a horse that's heavily foundation bred with maybe just one side going back to Impressive, it is still foundation bred.

Western
Jun. 15, 2012, 03:01 PM
www.horsemanpro.com has an interesting article on the subject, which agrees with what fillabeana & her links said: "The American Quarter Horse - Equine Mongrel".

mambo9
Jun. 15, 2012, 03:15 PM
Here is my old man...Foundation all the way...

Go Leo Tunder Bar-
Sire: Tunder Maker (C.T. Fuller Stud)
Dam: Leo's Prissy Baby, by Torchy Leo

Super cute stocky 14.3 reining Gelding...

Beverley
Jun. 15, 2012, 03:49 PM
www.horsemanpro.com (http://www.horsemanpro.com) has an interesting article on the subject, which agrees with what fillabeana & her links said: "The American Quarter Horse - Equine Mongrel".


I haven't checked the links, but as I think I noted earlier in this thread- the tb IS THE ORIGIN of the American Quarter Horse, as well as the American Saddlebred and Standardbred. If you read 'The Horse in Virginia' http://www.amazon.com/The-Horse-Virginia-Illustrated-History/dp/0813928168 you'll get some pretty good information on the subject. Including that way back at the origin of the TB- early race horses (as a function of mares used) were often gaited horses- they gaited to the post, galloped the race, gaited home.

And as I indicated earlier, my AQHA mare's pedigree goes all the way back through such notables as Diomed and Eclipse to the Godolphiin Arabian and the Byerly Turk.

And to add further to what Fillabeana said- in the 60s, I showed an AQHA stallion in halter and pleasure for a friend (not 'Appendix', AQHA) who was, literally, 7/8 TB. Went back to Man O' War thru War Admiral three different ways. And BTW won a bunch at halter.

Vermilion
Jun. 15, 2012, 05:56 PM
Filla, no one is excluding the TB and the appendix registry is proof of that. Once a registry has been established, why not maintain it?

Are you saying that the foundation lines of breeds like quarterhorses, Appaloosas, and even the likes of morgans are not worth independently maintaining?? Many people would argue that some of today's lines in all those breeds are worlds away from their founding horses.

Even in the thoroughbred world, there's a lot of debate going on that the thoroughbred of yesterday is not the thoroughbred of today on a number of levels.

The people who "go" for "foundation" lines (or for me personally) don't want to see what they love get diluted out. For me, it's the versatility and temperament that count most.

Oh, and the king ranch may have used a lot of TB blood, but I have full confidence that they knew what they were doing. That was still back in a time when horses were used for everyday work. :)

No flames, but I'm just a little confused as to how you think AQHA made a mistake accepting these almost pure TB horses and how you think at the same time that the foundation quarter horse thing is crap. Maybe you can elaborate more?? Maybe you would just prefer a different term other than foundation? Once the breed is established, I don't really see the need for more thoroughbred input. Does that make sense? It isn't really supposed to work like a warmblood registry, with the exception of the qualified appendix horses...if that makes sense. No on uses a thoroughbred to lighten up a friesian, for instance. And if I'm not mistaken, I believe these foundation registries were partly created to get away from AQHA which allowed the mostly TB quarter horses to be registered (Some one correct me if I am wrong!)

As for the white, I was once told that cowboys didn't want horses with a lot of white because they have a tendency to sunburn...that could be a wives tale though.

I know I tend to ramble. Hopefully, you understand what I'm actually trying to say. ;)

Western
Jun. 15, 2012, 08:13 PM
What does this have to do with owning a Foundation Quarter Horse? [edit]

Fillabeana, me, Beverley, & whoever else posted info that is relevant to your QH topic. You don't want to learn anything relevant to your "Foundation QHs"? Most people here like to learn & exchange information.

I'm off-topic here only in your own mind.:no:













How many on here have the privledge of owning a Foundation QH?


http://nfqha.com/

http://fqha.com/

http://www.fqhr.net/[/QUOTE]

7HL
Jun. 15, 2012, 08:26 PM
Fillabeana, me, Beverley, & whoever else posted info that is relevant to your QH topic. You don't want to learn anything relevant to your "Foundation QHs"? Most people here like to learn & exchange information.

Wrong! You don't exchange ideas. Now that is a joke.

I'm off-topic here only in your own mind.:no:

You haven't a clue what the topic is or was.




This was not on topic either, just trying to stir things up.


Let me find my flame suit, here...
OK.
I think the whole "Foundation Quarter Horse" thing is a bunch of crap.





How many on here have the privledge of owning a Foundation QH?


http://nfqha.com/

http://fqha.com/

http://www.fqhr.net/

Western
Jun. 15, 2012, 08:57 PM
7HL, your assumption that the QH IS a unique breed, has led us to provide data to the contrary. Did you know the facts of the TB blood in the foundation, as well as other facts in the horsemanpro article? If you did, it seems that you wouldn't have started this thread without mentioning them.

Why don't you learn something, for once?

Your blatant SNARK toward me is appalling, as usual.

7HL
Jun. 15, 2012, 09:07 PM
7HL, your assumption that the QH IS a unique breed, has led us to provide data to the contrary. Did you know the facts of the TB blood in the foundation, as well as other facts in the horsemanpro article? If you did, it seems that you wouldn't have started this thread without mentioning them.

Are you clueless? What planet are you on? Most owners of horses, no matter what the breed know the breed history. Horsemanpro, a joke right? That's what's lacking in your posts, knowledge gained by owning a horse.


Why don't you learn something, for once?

Learn what? Old news.

Your blatant SNARK toward me is appalling, as usual.

Look out for snark attacks. :lol:




This is a real simple thread. Probably difficult for some....






How many on here have the privledge of owning a Foundation QH?


http://nfqha.com/

http://fqha.com/

http://www.fqhr.net/

Beverley
Jun. 15, 2012, 10:11 PM
Personally, as a quarter horse owner since the mid-60s, I don't view the 'foundation' registry as anything special. One can find the same lines in the AQHA registry. I know which lines I like, and shop accordingly. And thus am not particularly envious of a 'foundation' registered horse, mine are just fine, thanks.

Pretty much anybody can create a registry, and the theory is excellent, but the registry is only as good as the knowledge base of those who start it and run it over the years. As an example, my own amateur opinion is that Jack Russell terriers in this country were generally of higher quality than since creation of a registry and later 'recognition' of the 'Parson Russell' by the AKC. Come to think of it, the AKC registry has ruined a whole lot of really good breeds.

And that is not meant as a knock on the foundation registry, or any other horse registry, just a general observation.

7HL
Jun. 15, 2012, 10:37 PM
Personally, as a quarter horse owner since the mid-60s, I don't view the 'foundation' registry as anything special. One can find the same lines in the AQHA registry. I know which lines I like, and shop accordingly. And thus am not particularly envious of a 'foundation' registered horse, mine are just fine, thanks.

Pretty much anybody can create a registry, and the theory is excellent, but the registry is only as good as the knowledge base of those who start it and run it over the years...


And that is not meant as a knock on the foundation registry, or any other horse registry, just a general observation.

There are foundation lines for other horse breeds. Morgans is the first that comes to mind.

http://foundationmorganhorse.com/

The thread was started with just a simple question. I also though some might share some pictures and pedigrees.

Real Foundation Quarter Horses, the closer to 100% are getting harder to find. Having mares I am always looking.

Vermilion
Jun. 16, 2012, 01:30 AM
People like what they like. Why can't others just accept it? Not everyone has to agree with it, but it doesn't mean you can't be cordial about it. If someone likes a type of horse, regardless of where it came from, and they decide to start their own registry, then so be it.

Oh and by the way, there is no "pure" American breed...or has no one else picked up on that yet??? (and if there is, then I'm just dying to learn about it) I mean, really if you go far enough back on a timeline, there's no such thing as a purebred. All breeds have to start somewhere.

I really don't understand what all the drama-fuss is about. People with foundation quarter horses should be able to feel free to post about their horses and I believe everyone is entitled to their own (respectful) opinion.

Bring on more horses. I will try to get some good pics of mine this weekend!

Western
Jun. 16, 2012, 03:47 AM
[edit]

Perhaps some want to say QH is a breed, want to say that bulldog QHs are strong riding horses, or that "QHs" have no more birth deformities than other breeds, that QHs were the cattle horses, & disagree with all of the issues brought up in the links posted. If that made some "fussy", too bad: we're entitled to post our opinions & whatever facts we've found.

7HL
Jun. 16, 2012, 06:54 AM
People like what they like. Why can't others just accept it? Not everyone has to agree with it, but it doesn't mean you can't be cordial about it. If someone likes a type of horse, regardless of where it came from, and they decide to start their own registry, then so be it.

AGREED. I inquired when I opened this thread whether anyone owned a Foundation Quarter Horse. Not what is a FQH or even what is the history of quarter horses.

Oh and by the way, there is no "pure" American breed...or has no one else picked up on that yet???

I will repeat, people that own a horse/horses of a specific breed, usually know about the breed's history. One of the things I did before purchasing my mare was to research her pedigree. After the fact I was able to contact the breeder that had her mom. She sent me pictures of half and full siblings.

(and if there is, then I'm just dying to learn about it) I mean, really if you go far enough back on a timeline, there's no such thing as a purebred. All breeds have to start somewhere.

I am aware of that. Thanks.

I really don't understand what all the drama-fuss is about. People with foundation quarter horses should be able to feel free to post about their horses and I believe everyone is entitled to their own (respectful) opinion.

I agree. Some however want to take the tread is some obscure direction. This is common from a particular individual.

Bring on more horses. I will try to get some good pics of mine this weekend!

YES! Want to see some pictures and some pedigrees from some other FQH owners.



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Moderator 1
Jun. 16, 2012, 11:00 AM
We removed some back-and-forth personal commentary. Please avoid it going forward. Feel free to discuss or debate comments made, but do so without the reciprocal jabs.

Thanks,
Mod 1

katarine
Jun. 17, 2012, 11:47 AM
The Foundation oriented breeds emerged as a way to register a QH with none of that big bad Impressive blood in it.

Then along came HERDA, which promptly blew that concern right out of the water.

I no longer own any QHs of any stripe. Or mottle :)

7HL
Jun. 17, 2012, 12:05 PM
The Foundation oriented breeds emerged as a way to register a QH with none of that big bad Impressive blood in it.

Then along came HERDA, which promptly blew that concern right out of the water.

I no longer own any QHs of any stripe. Or mottle :)


http://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/herda.php




Hereditary equine regional dermal asthenia (HERDA) is a genetic skin disease predominantly found in the American Quarter Horse. Within the breed, the disease is prevalent in particular lines of cutting horses. HERDA is characterized by hyperextensible skin, scarring, and severe lesions along the back of affected horses. Affected foals rarely show symptoms at birth. The condition typically occurs by the age of two, most notably when the horse is first being broke to saddle. There is no cure, and the majority of diagnosed horses are euthanized because they are unable to be ridden and are inappropriate for future breeding. HERDA has an autosomal recessive mode of inheritance and affects stallions and mares in equal proportions. Research carried out in Dr. Danika Bannasch's laboratory at the University of California, Davis, has identified the gene and mutation associated with HERDA.
The diagnostic DNA test for HERDA that has been developed allows identification of horses that are affected or that carry the specific mutation. Other skin conditions can mimic the symptoms of HERDA. The DNA test will assist veterinarians to make the correct diagnosis. For horse breeders, identification of carriers is critical for the selection of mating pairs. Breedings of carrier horses have a 25% chance of producing an affected foal. Breedings between normal and carrier horses will not produce a HERDA foal although 50% of the foals are expected to be carriers.





euthanized... should have been the solution for Impressive bred horses.



All that said fine, don't own a QH or ANY horse that has a genetic disease. Thats a great idea.


This thread is about Foundation QHs...


How many on here have the privledge of owning a Foundation QH?

Any pictures and/or pedigrees?


http://nfqha.com/

http://fqha.com/

http://www.fqhr.net/

Bluey
Jun. 17, 2012, 12:21 PM
The Foundation oriented breeds emerged as a way to register a QH with none of that big bad Impressive blood in it.

Then along came HERDA, which promptly blew that concern right out of the water.

I no longer own any QHs of any stripe. Or mottle :)

Not historically correct.

Foundation quarter horse registries started because some wanted to keep the old bulldog type look, thought there was too much TB influence.

Now, I wonder what they thought of so many old foundation lines that had plenty of TB in their background, as practically every AQHA horse has?
Or so many old lines in ranches, that were not the bulldog type?

The later foundation groups changed as their understanding of lines evolved.

I think foundation registries are an offshoot of the AQHA, catering to people that want to be a bit different and why not?
There are enough different interests to go around in the horse world for all.

If I remember right, one of those was assimilated by the AQHA some years ago.

I have had AQHA horses also registered with whatever regional foundation association was handy, as the previous owners wanted to have more shows to participate in and so more customers for their horses, as a way to expand their markets.

katarine
Jun. 17, 2012, 01:22 PM
Bluey you may not recall the advertising and the propoganda around "no Impressive blood therefore no HYPP"....I recall that drying up, fast, when HERDA was traced to ....Poco Bueno. NFQHA in particular boasted the No HYPP hype- which is fine- but it caught them with their pants down for HERDA to trace directly to PB.

Bluey
Jun. 17, 2012, 01:43 PM
Bluey you may not recall the advertising and the propoganda around "no Impressive blood therefore no HYPP"....I recall that drying up, fast, when HERDA was traced to ....Poco Bueno. NFQHA in particular boasted the No HYPP hype- which is fine- but it caught them with their pants down for HERDA to trace directly to PB.

Well, you may not recall all the talk of forming foundation registries way before anyone even realized there was a problem with Impressive.

That talk of HYPP came way later.

Each one of us has been breeding what we wanted as we saw best.
Our ranch was part of the ones starting the AQHA, supported with "donations" that were part of buying some of the first stock offering that started it.

There have been all kinds of discussions all along, quarter horses are really many types, although the start had to define some parameters, so the inspectors could give numbers.
In reality, if a horse was a very good horse in anyone's eyes, short of too much white, it got a number, deservedly so.
There were plenty of "unknown breeding" small sprinter type TBs that got AQHA numbers.;)

So much is talk, breeders talk and wanting to be a bit different, some by breeding and registering in the AQHA, some by wanting to exclude what others breed by forming their own association with good or no reason.:yes:

At least quarter horses are not quite walking funny and getting big pads put on yet, as some other breeds are.:eek:
Although they too have their extremes, they still are what they are, for good or not so good, like some blubbery halter lines.

It's ok, there is room for all in the horse world.:)