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View Full Version : Does anyone know what happened to Bruce Davidson at Over the Walls?



Drummerboy
Aug. 3, 2002, 02:54 PM
We were there and heard he went down...possibly broke a hip...and two rumors about the horse, one that it was fine and one that it had flipped at fence 4 and broken its neck. Does anyone have any real info on this? Buck was riding his britches of all day...lots of multiple rides.

Drummerboy
Aug. 3, 2002, 02:54 PM
We were there and heard he went down...possibly broke a hip...and two rumors about the horse, one that it was fine and one that it had flipped at fence 4 and broken its neck. Does anyone have any real info on this? Buck was riding his britches of all day...lots of multiple rides.

free
Aug. 3, 2002, 04:03 PM
I heard that his stallion, High Scope, broke its neck and is dead and that Bruce did have a broken hip as well as collerbone and some other lesser injuries as well as a collapsed lung. They were supposedly going for long when the horse added a stride and chested the jump, flipping over it. The jump wasn't a bad one, just bad luck.

Evalee Hunter
Aug. 3, 2002, 04:11 PM
but the earlier thread:

http://chronofhorse.infopop.net/2/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=691099205&f=702099205&m=5733077536

indicated a # of people who post on this board were planning to be there to watch or volunteer, so I think someone knows what happened. Obviously they aren't posting!

www.rougelandfarm.com (http://www.rougelandfarm.com) Home of TB stallion Alae Rouge, sire of our filly Rose, ribbon-winner on the line at Dressage at Devon.

Rouge's quote: "To err is human, to forgive, equine" (from a Pony Club refrigerator magnet)

barbaraG
Aug. 3, 2002, 05:24 PM
I was at Over the Walls today, at the end of Cross-Country. We were giving out water to the riders and collecting pinnys.

I know that High Scope was injured and taken back to his stall.

I Know that Bruce was taken out, to the hospital I spoke to one of the EMT's Buck told me his Dad may have broken his collar bone.

*But* that's all I *Know* for certain.

Until there is an offical report no one can be sure of anything. Rumours are not facts. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

BarbaraG
GWV

terry
Aug. 3, 2002, 05:25 PM
Gaby and I were fence judging at the water jump for the Advanced divisions (jump 15 A-F) and did not see the fall at fence 4. There are a lot of rumers floating around and it will probably take a little while to sort everything out. I heard that High Scope hit the jump and flipped over, launching Bruce into the air and than landed, rolled or something on top of him. I have heard that the horse died immediately and that Bruce is in the hospital with a broken rib and hip (or pelvic bone or something). A terrible, terrible tragedy. I feel so sorry for everyone connected with the horse and Bruce Davidson. It makes me want to hug all my ponies, kids, trainers, basically everyone I know.

Robby Johnson
Aug. 3, 2002, 06:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BarbaraG:
I was at Over the Walls today, at the end of Cross-Country. We were giving out water to the riders and collecting pinnys.

I know that High Scope was injured and taken back to his stall.

I Know that Bruce was taken out, to the hospital I spoke to one of the EMT's Buck told me his Dad may have broken his collar bone.

*But* that's all I *Know* for certain.

Until there is an offical report no one can be sure of anything. Rumours are not facts. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

BarbaraG
GWV<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is the horse dead or alive, and is Bruce expected to recover? This is terrible news. I just hope The GWV's information is more accurate.

Robby

You may be only one person in the world, but you may also be the world to one person.

Daydream Believer
Aug. 3, 2002, 06:33 PM
I feel terrible for Bruce and his wonderful horse. I hope Bruce isn't hurt too badly...hopefully the horse didn't break it's neck. I will jingle a few curb chains while we wait to find out.

It has been a tough year for upper level eventing hasn't it?

Sharon /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself." D.H. Lawrence

Hannahsmom
Aug. 3, 2002, 06:47 PM
Any information on other rider's at OTW?

The website has not been updated with current standings.

free
Aug. 3, 2002, 06:54 PM
Could someone please tell me what GWV stands for?

xcjumper
Aug. 3, 2002, 06:57 PM
Great Warrior Volunteer (I think). Correct me if I'm wrong Barbara

~Run fast, Jump high. What else is there?~

subk
Aug. 3, 2002, 07:03 PM
Free--Barbara is one of those rare and wonderful birds who does not ride but has found a place for us ungreatful eventer in her heart! She volunteers at serveral events a year and is an organizers dream come true--you can put her at the hard jumps with every confendence!

GWV does indeed stand for Great Warrior Volunteer!

barbaraG
Aug. 3, 2002, 07:05 PM
I left the grounds of Over the Walls after the accident happened. My husband and I were having a nice bagged lunch. When an alarm went off in my head, "Barbara, this is your brain calling, you are sick."

Not wanting to make a scene, (members of the Ground Jury, including Joe Silva were at the next table) I got up and walked over to one of the amblences parked close by, I told one of the EMT's I felt a little light headed.

He "invited" me into the back of the rig, He was very sweet, asked the usual med. questions, Town, age. etc.

My pulse was going nuts, I was feeling Really loopy. The Emt put the fans on. Shut the doors. I tried not to do something stupid, like faint, or lose it. Took my blood pressure. Bouncing.

I asked him about Bruce. Bruce did fall and moving was painful so they packed him up. He was talking.

Going home was the Best thing for me. My day was *Over* It was before 1:00 p.m. when we left.

I Really hate to leave an Event, to leave my riders, but it was Very Hot out here today

and the heat won!

But, really that's all I know about Bruce and High Scope. Rumours were already flying around and everyone seemed excited. Given my condition, nothing made sense.

We drove home, I've had a nap, a shower and a light supper. Tomorrow I should be fine.

Still, I feel a bit like a coward, like I let the side down. Still drinking lots of water.

I hope Bruce and the horse will be ok too.

BabraraG
GWV /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Drummerboy
Aug. 3, 2002, 07:07 PM
I must say that regardless of the outcome, Buck handled things and "carried on" beautifully. Either of the two scenarios presented are not great and he rode on well. The course appeared to ride very well, and organization was at optimum performance. Despite the heat. Keep the info coming so we can get the true story. Tough day in the horse world, what with Victor passing and this...
Thanks all.

bigdreamer
Aug. 3, 2002, 07:28 PM
HIgh scope is one of my favorite horses!!!! NO!!! he is alive, i can feel it! my psychic powers that are connected with his brain, and have been ever since i first saw him and fell in love at Rolex this year... I pray for him. I PRAY THAT EVERYTHING IS A-OK!!! the poor boy... *sniff* /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

member of the ~*~leasing a horse b/c i can't afford my own clique~*~ and the *~*Michigan clique*~* and the ~*~BBers at night clique~*~

There is something about jumping a horse over a fence,
something that makes you feel good. Perhaps it is the risk, the gamble. In any event it's a thing I need. ~William Faulkner

MsRidiculous
Aug. 3, 2002, 08:21 PM
High Scope is one of my favorites, too. Somebody out there HAS to know what happened. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

-Amanda

As soon as you're born you start dying, so you might as well have a good time -Cake

free
Aug. 3, 2002, 08:39 PM
Sorry to say, but I've heard the same thing twice now.

Sannois
Aug. 4, 2002, 04:25 AM
And the connected people that we cant find out for sure! Someone must know!!! Is High scope the grey horse?? I'm a bit behind on my advanced horses as I didn't go to Rolex this year! Come on where can we find out?? Certainly found out about Marks horse at Rolex this year easy enough. How is Bruce? And where was this event?

"Those who would give up
essential Liberty, to
purchase a little temporary
Safety, deserve neither
Liberty nor Safety" Benjamin
Franklin, 1755
Founding member of The Fossils over Fences Clique!

Drummerboy
Aug. 4, 2002, 05:54 AM
OTW is in Hardwick Ma., at Torrence Watkins farm. Absoutley stunning place.

Badger
Aug. 4, 2002, 06:17 AM
It is really unsettling that a horse this talented and experienced and a rider this experienced (both 4-star and Olympic veterans, I believe the horse had never had a jumping penalty in x-c or stadium) could come to such grief. There should be some margin of error that isn't fatal for the horse. One wrong step shouldn't be catastrophic. I guess this horse fatality (if the rumors are true, I know nothing other than what is posted on this thread) has hit me harder than others because I've watched this horse and rider go and been awed by them. Sort of, if it can happen to them, why are we mere mortals on more average/typical eventers even trying this sport? /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Don't take life so seriously...it's not permanent.

Sannois
Aug. 4, 2002, 07:22 AM
Dont you live by your tag line??? They are mortal too!!! Just more experienced and more talented. We do this because we love it and our horses! Lets keep this in perspective. We dont know anything yet. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"Those who would give up
essential Liberty, to
purchase a little temporary
Safety, deserve neither
Liberty nor Safety" Benjamin
Franklin, 1755
Founding member of The Fossils over Fences Clique!

Mary in Area 1
Aug. 4, 2002, 07:30 AM
I've known Terry for years, and she is NOT a person who would post information she was not sure about. She and her daughter were jump judging the Advanced water (obviously an experienced and trusted duo) and I know they were there all day. As much as I hate to admit it, I think her account of the event is probably accurate. How horrible, and terribly sad for Bruce and the owners of this lovely and accomplished stallion. He had a wonderful future in store for him!

free
Aug. 4, 2002, 09:21 AM
Since I am not a SOMEBODY I am sorry that I shared.

Mary in Area 1
Aug. 4, 2002, 10:21 AM
I was not dissing you in any way. I was simply responding to people who were confused by the conflicting stories, and I knew that Terry had been THERE, for a first-hand report. Your report was the same as Terry's, but you didn't say where you got your info. I was just saying I thought Terry was a reliable source, esp. since Barbara went home early in the day.

Daydream Believer
Aug. 4, 2002, 10:50 AM
I have to agree with Badger...a horse shouldn't have to pay with it's life for one bad step or mistake. If this horse did break his neck than that makes two that I know of...Mark's horse at Rolex this Spring being the other. Both horses very experienced and wonderful. I was at Southern Pines this spring and one advanced and one intermediate horse each were put down there. There's got to be a way to make eventing safer for the horses and the riders for that matter. At least a rider knows what risk they are taking unlike the horse who trusts their rider and does what his rider asks. Perhaps it's time to make breakaway fences that will come down when hit hard enough...I mean you almost never hear of such a bad accident in stadium. I'm sure someone here will disagree with me and yes, it will change the nature of the sport, but if we don't make some changes voluntarily, I think we will be forced to eventually. At this point in my life, I can honestly say that I'll probably never compete above training and maybe prelim. I just think it's getting too technical and risky at the upper levels. JMHO.

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself." D.H. Lawrence

terry
Aug. 4, 2002, 10:50 AM
I'm so sorry that free was unintentially offended by Mary's post that I feel I must jump in here.
I am hardly a somebody, just a ponyclub mom, but Mary and I have know each other for nine years and we have become friends through our daughter's riding.
I don't have any new information about Bruce and High Scope but I believe that what free and I posted earlier is essentially the case. I heard roughly the same story from numerous sources, two of them eye witnesses, yesterday afternoon. I understand Barbara's post also. When the incident occured, a little before 10:30 yesterday morning, and there was a long hold on course, Nicho (the Announcer and controller) announced that Bruce had perhaps broken something and was being taken off to a hospital and that the horse was taken to stabling. The announcer was being very diplomatic, he didn't mention High Scope's state, leaving me and perhaps a lot of other folks to believe that the horse was ok. When I was first told that High Scope had died immediately, I didn't want to believe it either, but then I heard it again and again, finally from my daughter's trainer, who is a very reliable source. He was an adorable stallion and I thought it was so neat that he did so well in eventing. I even suggested that my daughter's trainer breed her TB mare to him (unfortunately she didn't, she goes for the TB stallions).
There must be someome reading this forum who is way more qualified than me to fill everyone in on what happened. Beth Rasin, of the Chronicle, was at Over the Walls, so I believe we will have the whole story eventually.
I am so sorry to be the bearer of such horrible news.

barbaraG
Aug. 4, 2002, 10:58 AM
Terry and her daughter were closer than my husband and I to the scene of Bruce's fall with High Scope at OTW yesterday.

I *Really* needed to come home. Beyond the heat, *Mother Nature* is playing her little games with me. I didn't want to cause a scene, have people laugh, or something..."This old woman can't take the heat, Ha-Ha!"

I still feel Lousy, for *That* reason And for having to leave this Wonderful event.

Bruce Davidson brought me into this Sport, so I owe him a lot.

Mary, do you remember that day at Groton House!?

He has Always been Very Sweet and Wonderful to me. We saw him before the fall with Apperition, his other Grey, and we joked for a while.

Since we really don't know anything and I can't really do anything, I feel worried and frightened.

I am trying to rest, but I'm cleaning the house like a madwoman! Something to do.

I hope no one here thinks me a coward for leaving. I really love my riders.

BarbaraG
Great and worried Warrior Volunteer /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

eventamy
Aug. 4, 2002, 11:02 AM
Barbara, of course you're not a coward! WHat good are we to our children and horses if we can't take care of ourselves first? It was horribly hot yesterday (believe me who was putting up fencing at the new barn instead of at OTW like I wanted to be). I'm glad you're feeling better now.
I too am feeling frightened and worried, I need to know what happened to this horse. I was at the Cheshire Fair all this morning announcing for Ring 2 and didn't know what had happened! Now I feel like pacing the house, not knowing what has happened!

free
Aug. 4, 2002, 12:03 PM
be said about the courage and steadiness of Holly Hepp...who was the very next rider to go after Bruce. No matter how professional you are, it has to be unnerving to be the very next in line after a tagedy of this magnatude, but it says a lot about her that she kept herself together and handled it so perfectly.

Drummerboy
Aug. 4, 2002, 12:20 PM
Nigel, the announcer did a very diplomatic job at keeping things calm and without chaos. With the amount of people there and other riders on course holding, he did his job professionally and with tact. Kudos to him, the other riders, Buck and the Davidsons stable help for there behaviours. I'm sure that perhaps later in the day today, when stadium wraps up and people have a chance for some "down time" we may get more info. Though by all accounts, it was one of those freak things, expieranced pair, great combo, but accidents happen to all of us. It can happen on a gallop through the woods or out hunting just as well.

fernie fox
Aug. 4, 2002, 12:25 PM
I am very fond of Bruce and I felt my post did not belong on this thread.
Have started another thread instead.

I apologize.

fernie fox
"I have lived my life-it is nearly done-.I have played the game all round;But I freely admit that the best of my fun I owe it to Horse and Hound".

bigdreamer
Aug. 4, 2002, 12:29 PM
about how they are coming out with new collapseable jumps. They will collapse when hit with a certain amount of force at certain areas, say if a horse literally crashed into it, but not if they hung their back legs. And as i learned this past weekend when going down a drop a horse hangs their legs naturally to slow themselves down *:)*. They really need to start building these jumps!!! High Scope was an awesome horse and i pray to God that they have some semen stored away to pass on his blood lines... he was the only stallion at the 4* level, and i would've LOVED to have bred a mare of mine to him... someday when i have my own mare /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

~laura~

member of the ~*~leasing a horse b/c i can't afford my own clique~*~ and the *~*Michigan clique*~* and the ~*~BBers at night clique~*~

There is something about jumping a horse over a fence,
something that makes you feel good. Perhaps it is the risk, the gamble. In any event it's a thing I need. ~William Faulkner

barbaraG
Aug. 4, 2002, 01:39 PM
Thanks, subk and Eventamy for your kind words to me.

I am feeling better. Hopefully, we will have a full and correct report about Bruce and High Scope tomorrow from someone at COTH.

BarbaraG
Great Warrior Volunteer

wannabegifted
Aug. 4, 2002, 02:29 PM
The horse broke his ribs and punctured a lung. He was put down.

Bruce broke: His collarbone, shoulder, ribs, pelvis and punctured and collapsed a lung. He is currently in ICU.

Cody
Aug. 4, 2002, 03:36 PM
Since I KNOW where you got your info from I didn't doubt your word one bit. I'm heartbroken that yet again the eventing world has suffered a loss. I did try to email your home email address but it keeps coming back to me. I sure hope that young un' of yours got around ok?

Nancy

His Greyness
Aug. 4, 2002, 03:44 PM
The organizing committee of the Over the Walls Horse Trials put out this statement yesterday afternoon:

Over The Walls Horse Trials 2002
Hardwick, Massachusetts


Press Statement
Saturday, August 3, 2002



Today, at approximately 10:20 AM, at the Over the Walls Horse Trials, competitor number 80, Bruce Davidson of Unionville, PA riding Mr. Neil McKay�s High Scope, a thirteen year old stallion, fell at obstacle four on the cross country course.

It is with great sadness that we announce that High Scope suffered a broken neck and died instantly. This was the only horse fatality in the history of the Over the Walls Horse Trials, and the organizing committee wishes to extend their sympathy to Mr. McKay and Mr. Davidson.

High Scope, ridden by Trevor Smith, represented Ireland at the 2000 Olympic Games in Sydney, Australia.

A doctor and a paramedic team in attendance at the time of the fall examined Mr. Davidson. He was transported to the University of Massachusetts Medical Center in Worcester, Massachusetts, where he is being treated for injuries suffered in the fall.

Mr. Davidson, 52, has twice won the World Individual Championship in the sport of Eventing, and was twice a winner of the team gold medal in the Olympic Games. He was competing in the National Advanced Horse Trials Championship.

Sannois
Aug. 4, 2002, 03:54 PM
for a full recovery. He will be layed up for some time with those injuries. So sad about the stallion. It can happen to anyone at any time, even jumping over a small 2 foot fence at home. It is the nature of the sport. Accidents can and do happen no matter how well trained our horses are or how experienced the rider.

"Those who would give up
essential Liberty, to
purchase a little temporary
Safety, deserve neither
Liberty nor Safety" Benjamin
Franklin, 1755
Founding member of The Fossils over Fences Clique!

MsRidiculous
Aug. 4, 2002, 04:03 PM
That's horrible. He was my favorite.. a magnificent animal. RIP High Scope, and hoping for a speedy recovery for Bruce. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

-Amanda

As soon as you're born you start dying, so you might as well have a good time -Cake

pinkhorse
Aug. 4, 2002, 05:30 PM
My strong best wishes for Bruce, who has certainly dealt with injuries in the past - but that's a lot of injury for "someone who isn't 20 anymore".

I can say that UMass Worcester has a wonderful trauma team. A family member with terribly life threatening injuries did real well with them. Bruce is in good hands.

tommygirl
Aug. 4, 2002, 06:12 PM
Over The Walls Horse Trials 2002
Hardwick, Massachusetts
Press Statement
Saturday, August 3, 2002
Today, at approximately 10:20 AM, at the Over the Walls Horse Trials, competitor number 80, Bruce Davidson of Unionville, PA riding Mr. Neil McKay's High Scope, a thirteen year old stallion, fell at obstacle four on the cross country course.
It is with great sadness that we announce that High Scope suffered a broken neck and died instantly. This was the only horse fatality in the history of the Over the Walls Horse Trials, and the organizing committee wishes to extend their sympathy to Mr. McKay and Mr. Davidson.
High Scope, ridden by Trevor Smith, represented Ireland at the 2000 Olympic Games in Sydney, Australia.
A doctor and a paramedic team in attendance at the time of the fall examined Mr. Davidson. He was transported to the University of Massachusetts Medical Center in Worcester, Massachusetts, where he is being treated for injuries suffered in the fall.
Mr. Davidson, 52, has twice won the World Individual Championship in the sport of Eventing, and was twice a winner of the team gold medal in the Olympic Games. He was competing in the National Advanced Horse Trials Championship.

JesslynW
Aug. 4, 2002, 07:44 PM
?

Jess

barbaraG
Aug. 4, 2002, 07:59 PM
Are we Really Sure about what happened now?

I still don't want to believe that this Wonderful horse is gone.

Does Anyone have an update on Bruce's condition??

going to bed. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif


BarbaraG
GWV

achcosuva
Aug. 4, 2002, 08:02 PM
Oh my. This is awful. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Poor Bruce and his family, poor Mr. McKay. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif I don't know what to say. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

-Anne, the owner of a PrettyFilly and a WildArabianStallion-
"Change is inevitable...except from a vending machine."

Lisamarie8
Aug. 4, 2002, 08:24 PM
They were amazing as a team.

all I can say is /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

-- Why don't they pass a constitutional amendment prohibiting anybody from learning anything? If it works as well as prohibition did, in five years Americans would be the smartest race of people on Earth.

Duffy
Aug. 4, 2002, 08:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Daydream Believer:
I have to agree with Badger...a horse shouldn't have to pay with it's life for one bad step or mistake. If this horse did break his neck than that makes two that I know of...Mark's horse at Rolex this Spring being the other. Both horses very experienced and wonderful. I was at Southern Pines this spring and one advanced and one intermediate horse each were put down there. There's got to be a way to make eventing safer for the horses and the riders for that matter. At least a rider knows what risk they are taking unlike the horse who trusts their rider and does what his rider asks. Perhaps it's time to make breakaway fences that will come down when hit hard enough...I mean you almost never hear of such a bad accident in stadium. I'm sure someone here will disagree with me and yes, it will change the nature of the sport, but if we don't make some changes voluntarily, I think we will be forced to eventually. At this point in my life, I can honestly say that I'll probably never compete above training and maybe prelim. I just think it's getting too technical and risky at the upper levels. JMHO.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've posted the same sentiments, so you're not alone. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif (Well, except for the fact that I don't event at any level any more and I wasn't at Southern Pines. I only posted about the deaths after that event.)

"I can justify anything!"

tommygirl
Aug. 4, 2002, 09:12 PM
Okay JesslynW,
I am just trying to be helpful. I did not see that the information was already posted!

Badger
Aug. 4, 2002, 09:28 PM
The accumalating fatalites show that there just is not enough margin for error. Both horses and riders WILL make mistakes. Neither are machines, neither will be perfect every time. But there MUST be room for a mistake to be made without causing so many fatalities to horse or rider. Mistakes should be punished, whether by penalties or runouts or falls or what have you, but having four horses in less than five months in the US pay the ultimate price for those mistakes is not acceptable. For the sport to survive there must be a greater margin of error between "clean" and "dead." /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Don't take life so seriously...it's not permanent.

Robby Johnson
Aug. 5, 2002, 04:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Daydream Believer:
Mark's horse at Rolex this Spring being the other. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was under the impression his horse fractured his spine/pelvis. Is this not accurate?

Robby

You may be only one person in the world, but you may also be the world to one person.

Daydream Believer
Aug. 5, 2002, 05:33 AM
Robby,

What I remember reading was that the horse broke his neck flipping over a fence during the heavy downpour. I got the impression that the mud and rain were contributing factors and his fall lead to a lot of the riders scratching, understandibly. I was not there however, and you may be right. I just tried logging into USEventHorse to reread the article about Rolex, but it's no longer there. Sorry, I hope I'm not putting out erroneous info about Mark's fall. Can anyone verify what happened to Mark Weissbecker's horse at Kentucky?

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself." D.H. Lawrence

Elghund2
Aug. 5, 2002, 06:20 AM
Regarding the horse at Rolex. I saw a report after the fact that the horse had apparently thrown its back shoes prior to the jump they crashed at. So it didn't have enough traction at the next fence. I don't know that this was the definitive answer but only the latest I had read about it.

What was the composition of the fence at which Bruce and High Point crashed? I'm interested as in the frangible fences that are being tested can not be used in all jump types.

"Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug."

Heather
Aug. 5, 2002, 06:41 AM
Titliest broke his neck between the 4th and 5th vertebra after loosing his hind shoes (I was there, per the official press release from ROlex).

It should be pointed out one of the horses at SOuthern Pines (I was there also) did not recieve his fatal injury as a direct result of the problem of the fence. He had stopped and slid into the ditch, and was fine. However, as he was getting out of the ditch, he slipped with only one leg out of the ditch and broke the out of the ditch leg. Not exactly the same type of injury as the others we are speaking about.

The frangible fences have been tested with good success in England, first in a lab setting using a fake horse, and also at least once now in "real life" (they've been in place at several horse trials, but a horse has only fallen on one once). Horse and rider walked away well, and the fence was back up and operational within 5 minutes. The current issues about the frangible fences/pins is how to adapt them to a variety of fence types (because we don't want to only jump round log oxers), how to make them affordable for all organizers, and how to potnetially score such faults--as many of us know, event horses aren't generally believed to need to be knee-snapping, never toucha jump type jumpers. If we start faulting "rails" on cross country, that will significantly change the sport.

But, frangible fences are coming, and will in the future I think be an integral part of it. However, it would be foolish to rush this, and make a mistake that causes more problems and falls and injuries than prevents them.

But keep in mind, every frangible fence in the world won't prevent the thousands of freak accidents that kill thousands of horses in every disicpline every year. And if you say that this is different because we're putting them in a dangerous situation, keep in mind that if we never put them in stalls or fenced-in fields, then we'd save a whole lot of horses who die every year after fence and stall related traumas, far more than who die on cross country, I promise you.

I'm glad that frangible fences are being explored, and I'm confident they will be a good solution for the future. I don't for a second think it means no more horses will die--not just in eventing, but in every discipline.

deltawave
Aug. 5, 2002, 06:58 AM
What a huge tragedy for Bruce and the connections of High Scope. His owner emailed me a couple of months before Rolex and asked me to profile the stallion on my local CTA's webpage, which I did...I fell in love with him from the pictures and the story, and I vividly remember sitting up at 2am at Tintagel Castle in Southern England in September 2000 watching the Olympic 3-day (they showed the WHOLE thing in the UK--was up all night!) and seeing that beautiful gray make nothing of that course. So sad that he is gone; I'd half planned to breed to him if I decided to breed Kelly again.

I hope Bruce recovers safely, and that this won't spark another huge wave of anti-eventing sentiment. I think there was a reference to the "frangible" fences in the article by Cindy Collier (can't remember her married name) in the USEA magazine last month, that they seemed to be working out well in the UK. Like every "new" technology, there will be bugs, delays, and endless skepticism, but hopefully the "visionaries" will press on and there will be another tool we can apply vs. the dangers of the sport.

"If you think your hairstyle is more important than your brain, you're probably right." Wear a helmet!
www.deltawave.homestead.com (http://www.deltawave.homestead.com)
www.seeliecourt.homestead.com (http://www.seeliecourt.homestead.com)

KateDB
Aug. 5, 2002, 07:31 AM
Yes, Deltawave, Cindy's article does reference the frangible fence and there was also a piece in Eventing (UK) magazine, too.
(Married name Rawson!)

Phloe
Aug. 5, 2002, 08:16 AM
"I can't say enough good about High-Scope, be it his disposition, jumping ability, approach to work and day to day handling. He is the nicest horse on this earth; what more can I say" (Bruce Davidson, 5th Feb 2002)

Camstock
Aug. 5, 2002, 08:45 AM
I'm deeply sorry about Bruce's injuries, Barbara's feeling of having let folks down (you didn't GWV, heat happens!) and for the loss of High Scope.

I really really hope they had High Scope's semen collected and frozen.

flypony74
Aug. 5, 2002, 08:55 AM
Hang in there Bruce! Our thoughts and prayers are with you!

Does anybody have an address where a card could be sent?

"Dream as if you'll live forever, and live as if you'll die tomorrow." -- James Dean

Smart Alec
Aug. 5, 2002, 10:17 AM
What a terrible accident. My thoughts go out to the owners and Bruce. Hope he has a thorough and fast recovery.
Barbara (GWV!)---I worked at my barn doing stalls on Sat. and I live in MA----It was H-O-T! Don't feel like you let anyone down! I nearly passed out and felt nauseas from the heat as well---it was just a terribly hot humid day. Your spirit and enthusiasm is amazing to me---don't be down. You always are a great help and a very supportive person (we need more like you!)

Me fail english? That's umpossible.
-Ralph Wiggum /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

IFG
Aug. 5, 2002, 10:44 AM
We made it to Over the Walls later in the day then I had planned. I didn't hear anything about Bruce's accident, though I noticed that he didn't go on his prelim mount.

Barbara, please take care of yourself. It was an incredibly hot day, and this lovely event site did not have much shade. Sorry that we didn't get to meet you, perhaps later in the season.

Lany

Pixie Dust
Aug. 5, 2002, 12:03 PM
Barbara, the G could stand for Goddess too!!

I'm so sorry for Bruce and the horse and everyone involved. And I hate for an animal to die like that.

I'm all for always thinking of ways to make the sport safer and I'm glad the USEA works on this, but.......BUT....now here's a can of worms. I'm not so sure that horses don't understand the risk. Understanding risk is what keeps animals alive. It's what makes horses spook and bolt....yikes, dark spot on ground could be a HOLE. It's what makes horses stop at a fence. No, they cannot rationalize and think about "what if" but instinctively, animals will think about risk. Life is risky for them. Statistically, an event horse is more in danger from your everyday risks- lightening, founder, WNV, EPM, pasture accidents, stall accidents, etc. etc. etc.

What a glorious animal he was.

It's so easy to laugh; it's so easy to hate; it takes guts to be gentle and kind.... The Smiths

subk
Aug. 5, 2002, 12:14 PM
Thank you bgoosewood!

I really think we should be a whole lot more interested and concerned in the condition of Mr. Davidson at this point than rehashing some of this other stuff at this time. He is a dean of our sport and this may very well be the end of an era. My prayers and thoughts go out to him and to Buck, Nancy and the rest of his eventing team.

I'll wait to sound off on the other until he's at least out of the hospital!

wannabegifted
Aug. 5, 2002, 12:25 PM
Bruce has been moved out of ICU and into a normal hospital room in Mass. He has been taken off the resperator (sp??) and is now on just one of those nose tubes for oxygen. He is conscious and sounds like will be fine once his bones heal!

I would send the card to chesterland

po box 453
unionville, pa 19375

tle
Aug. 5, 2002, 12:26 PM
wannabe... thanks for the address and the update!!

BTW, perhaps I missed it, but what kind of fence was #4 anyway?

************
YEA RED WINGS!!! 2002 STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS!! HOCKEYTOWN FOREVER!!

If Dressage is a Symphony... Eventing is Rock & Roll!

Survivor thoughts -- Thailand here we come. BTW PICK ME FOR S6!!

Badger
Aug. 5, 2002, 12:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bgoosewood:

I'm not so sure that horses don't understand the risk. Understanding risk is what keeps animals alive. It's what makes horses spook and bolt....yikes, dark spot on ground could be a HOLE. It's what makes horses stop at a fence. No, they cannot rationalize and think about "what if" but instinctively, animals will think about risk. Life is risky for them. Statistically, an event horse is more in danger from your everyday risks- lightening, founder, WNV, EPM, pasture accidents, stall accidents, etc. etc. etc.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I hadn't thought about it that way, and I do think you've made a good point here. Thank you! I think you are probably right.

Good to hear that Bruce is out of ICU and on the mend.

Don't take life so seriously...it's not permanent.

wannabegifted
Aug. 5, 2002, 01:22 PM
#4 was just a simple oxer, however Buck said that what happened was Bruce saw his stride about 7 out and moved up, but scopey moved up too much, then when bruce went to go whoa and pick him up he never whoaed, left a leg and flipped. Bruce was flung out of the way, but basically the horse died upon hitting the ground. The horse was an amazing jumper, but was scary cross country sometimes. He was partially warmblood, a bit heavy and galloped downhill, Bruce worked very hard to get the horse to balance before fences, and everytime I saw him he was excellent off the ground, but this once he didn;t whoa enough to a simple fence and missed his stride.

so so sad...

another sad part is Scopey was always used live or fresh chilled to breed, There is limited to none frozen, so we just lost one of the great eventing stallions and all of his potential offspring.

Badger
Aug. 5, 2002, 01:34 PM
Isn't David O'Connor eventing one of his offspring at the lower levels (prelim?)? Is it a gelding?

Don't take life so seriously...it's not permanent.

KateDB
Aug. 5, 2002, 01:53 PM
Yes, last Fall David evented Mulligan (he belongs to someone I know) at the Training level. They won their division at Waredaca in October. I don't know that they went out anytime other than that - not sure. The horse also won the Virginia Field Hunter Championship and I think he is for sale. He is a lovely grey gelding.

Sandman
Aug. 5, 2002, 01:54 PM
Not all of his potential offspring. Wannabe, you are so interested in everything Chesterland, didn't you know the horse has been breeding for quite some time now?
Take heart. Little Scope-itos are already running around, with more to come.
Condolences to the McKays, Bruce, and to his groom, Kay.

Robby Johnson
Aug. 5, 2002, 02:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wannabegifted:

another sad part is Scopey was always used live or fresh chilled to breed, There is limited to none frozen, so we just lost one of the great eventing stallions and all of his potential offspring.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If I may speak for wannabegifted, in this case, I think what she meant was there was no frozen semen banked so there is no chance of future offspring - just what's already on the ground.

You can bitchslap me wannabegifted, if this isn't what you meant!

Robby

You may be only one person in the world, but you may also be the world to one person.

JumperDoc
Aug. 5, 2002, 02:10 PM
I just read on Saddletude.com that Bruce suffered 4 broken ribs, broken collarbone and a broken pelvis. It seems that High Scope fell on Bruce while catching a leg on the jump! Did we ever find out what kind of jump it was?
It brings tears to my eyes seeing a pic of High Scope. He was a gorgeous animal. I saw him at Rolex this year and was amazed at his athleticism and beauty! And I am a sucker for the greys since owning one!

High Scope will be greatly missed! And I'll keep Bruce in my prayers!

It really does make you wonder about the risks involved at the higher levels and if it is really worth the life of you or your horse!!!
I won't get into that though cuz we have gone over that a million times before!!!!

wannabegifted
Aug. 5, 2002, 02:58 PM
Thanks Robby....Why so hostile sandman? Robby was correct, and a little more carefull reading and I am sure you would have understood that I meant Future offspring (hence the mention of little frozen supply) I am aware that there are several offspring already on the ground, in Europe and in the US, but there could have been many more. Bruce even bred many of his own to the stallion. And it is not that I am "interested" in chesterland, I used to work there, and the woman that I work for now is very very good friends with the Davidson family, so you see..that is where I get the information.

I am not sure if you meant to come across the way that I am taking your post, but that is the way I read it, if so I would appriciate it if you would cap your hostility.


PS. Why condolences to Kay? (besides the slipped disc)



]Originally posted by Sandman:
Not all of his potential offspring. Wannabe, you are so interested in everything Chesterland, didn't you know the horse has been breeding for quite some time now?
Take heart. Little Scope-itos are already running around, with more to come.
Condolences to the McKays, Bruce, and to his groom, Kay.[/QUOTE]

Geroni-mo-oh-oh
Aug. 5, 2002, 03:30 PM
With no disrespect to any rider (Bruce Davidson included) I think it's absolutely disgusting and outrageous that horses should be made to pay with their lives for man-made competitions and "sport." If a human is injured or dies, at least the human made the decision to engage. The horse has no choice---it doesn't volunteer. There are routine deaths in eventing at Badminton and Burleigh, and I wish people would refrain from the sick urge to make courses so difficult that horses die with more regularity than any of us can imagine. The industry also suppresses public information on this front. Human tragedy could be avoided too, if the courses were somewhat easier.
What about Christopher Reeve and Amanda Warrington?
The whole thing is such a grave waste!!!
(End of speech!)

"Everything that doesn't kill you, makes you stronger."
Nietzsche

xcjumper
Aug. 5, 2002, 05:06 PM
OH-Earthquake-I could go on and on and on about your reply. I for one do not think horses are just mindless beings, they do have some choice in the matter. They can, and many do, choose NOT to jump (hence the search for the perfect eventer)!
I do agree that the courses have some faults and every effort is being made to make them safer! Accidents happen that's why they are called Accidents!!! I will get off MY soapbox now!

~Run fast, Jump high. What else is there?~

Magnolia
Aug. 5, 2002, 05:25 PM
I respect your opinion, but just something to think about - apparently the horse fell on a relatively simple jump. We could make courses easier, but there will always be accidents. (One tragic incident that sticks out is a woman who was killed in a low (3'-3'6) jumper class when she misjudged her spot).

Secondly the horse has a choice. A horse, early on in his training that lacks the heart to go CC would show it. How many event horses look tense and upset in dressage, and pull rails in stadium, but on cross country day look fresh and eager, ready to attack the course.

This sounds like a sad case of rotten luck - an experienced rider on an experienced horse ran into some bad luck. I doubt making the course easier would have saved their lives.

The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

eventamy
Aug. 5, 2002, 05:36 PM
I agree Magnolia! There have been horses in every sport/seat who have had accidents and have had to be destroyed! I know of 2 saddleseat horses who died from flipping over in their bitting horses as 2 year olds! This stuff does happen. We can only try to make our sport safer. But this was a fluke, this team was one of the most experienced teams out there and it happened to them, with less experienced horses and riders making it through just fine. We can only move on from here and learn from our experiences. By the way, does anybody have a picture of High Scope. I've seen him before, but I can't find any pictures of him!

JER
Aug. 5, 2002, 05:46 PM
For more on High-Scope, see his website:
High-Scope web page (http://www.highscopeglobal.com/)

The web site notes that High-Scope never had a jumping fault at an international event. He also showjumped successfully to the 1.40m level.

There is such a thing in our sport as an accident, and this unfortunate incident seems to be just that.

Daydream Believer
Aug. 5, 2002, 06:53 PM
JER,

Thanks for posting that link. What a beautiful horse and what a tragedy. Thank God it sounds like Bruce will be OK. Thanks also to the person who posted the address...I think he's going to get a lot of cards and well wishes.

Sharon

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself." D.H. Lawrence

PMJ
Aug. 5, 2002, 07:28 PM
While I no longer event due to the fact that I don't enjoy jumping, I must comment that many of the upper level horses I have been around from working with some top riders seem keen and absolutely love what they do. Anything can be taken to an extreme, everyone is entitled to their opinions, and mine personally is that accidents happen. It is an unfortunate part of life. My mom had a filly that had a horrible compound fracture from a misstep in a perfectly flat safe paddock. Yes, there is risk in eventing, but I think the people who organize and govern the sport do try to make it safe on a continual basis. It does worry me that when we start to limit what people can and cannot do with their horse that we may play into the plan of the extremists who feel horses shouldn't even be ridden.

BarbB
Aug. 5, 2002, 07:45 PM
Before anyone decides to vigorously defend the sport to "earthquake" - go and read her posts on the hunter/jumper board.
Most of the rhetoric is right out of the animal rights propaganda.
Save your breath - uh....fingers....trying to talk to her.

BarbB

charter member BEQS Clique & Invisible Poster Clique

xcjumper
Aug. 5, 2002, 08:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BarbB:
Before anyone decides to vigorously defend the sport to "earthquake" - go and read her posts on the hunter/jumper board.
Most of the rhetoric is right out of the animal rights propaganda.
Save your breath - uh....fingers....trying to talk to her.

BarbB

charter member BEQS Clique & Invisible Poster Clique<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Barb, for the heads up! I've been "steaming" all afternoon!!!

~Run fast, Jump high. What else is there?~

Helen
Aug. 5, 2002, 08:02 PM
High Scope was my current favorite horse competing in the upper levels... I'm crushed to find out that he died. Bruce will have my good thoughts for a speedy recovery... that is quite a rough collection of injuries to recover from for anyone, regardless of age. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

Bensmom
Aug. 5, 2002, 09:42 PM
I won't ever forget the first time I saw Bruce ride xc -- we were watching at Red Hills, and there is a long run up a galloping lane to the jump before the turn to the water. My trainer worked with Bruce long ago, and she was explaining to me that I was about to see perhaps the best "eye" she'd ever witnessed someone ride with. As they crossed the road, Bruce locked in on the jump and knew right away that they needed to move up to take it out of stride. This was 10-12 strides back.

I have never seen anything quite like it -- Bruce is a master at what he does, and from the pictures of High Scope he looks as if he loved his job. This is indeed a heartbreaking tragedy, and we are joining in jangling our curb chains for Bruce's full recovery, and for all those suffering the loss of such a lovely stallion.

Libby

free
Aug. 5, 2002, 09:56 PM
don't be so hard on earthquake. Her heart is in the right place. She obviously cares about the animals that we all share a love for and we are all upset about what just happened and being a little (or a lot) defensive. Everyone is entitled to their opinion here and she is voicing opinions that I have heard a lot of times and sometimes from my own conscience. Sometimes I think that we "doth protest too much"! But then I remember that of the many, many injuries that our horses have had, one injury was during a lesson and the all of the rest happened in the pasture. Not one that I can remember during competition. (of course ours weren't going Advanced) A friends' father continuously says that he doesn't see how we can "take the horses that we say we love and jump them off cliffs". And while I have observed that some horses really do indeed love x-country, there are others who do it to please the riders that they have come to love and trust.

Daydream Believer
Aug. 6, 2002, 05:41 AM
Good post. Lay off Earthquake...she has a right to her opinion too and the right to express it here just like the rest of us.

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself." D.H. Lawrence

Heather
Aug. 6, 2002, 07:48 AM
if she makes an effort to have an educated opinion, and she is mindful of the feelings of the people involved.

The owner and rider of High Scope are surely devastated, and doing plenty of second guessing, I am sure. Why add to the their pain? WHy imply they are abusers who sacrificed a horse on the alter of their egos? Uncalled for.

Second, as I and others have mentioned, if you truly want to insure that a horse is never injured or killed by manmade means, then never ride one, never keep it in a stall, and never keep it in a fenced in area. Of course, the mustangs get killed and injured too, being wild ain't exactly a piece of cake either. But, at least it won't be any person's fault. SInce earthquake not only rides, but is apparently giving eventing a try, I'd say her admonitions are a bit hypocritical.

THose who have known me digitally for several years, from back on the USEA boards, knows that I am not much of an eventing apologist, and quick to point out things about the sport I wish were changed for horse and rider safety (I still haven't let go of my bounce bone). However, I do get tired of people who know next to nothing about the sport screaming "horse murderers" every time something bad happen.

Finally, and I am SURE to be flamed for this, I have decided that most event horses have superior day to day lives than most horses in other disciplines. They get turned out to be horses, they are offered every method of help and comfort, but rarely "used up". THey don't get pounded week after week in the name of point chasing. They enjoy a variety of work and work environements. So should one of my horse's lives be cut short by an accident on course, the one thing I will take comfort in is that in the time he was here he was happier than most competitive horses ever get to be. That's not to say I won't devestated personally, I'm not sure i could go on personally, but that would be my comfort.

Geroni-mo-oh-oh
Aug. 6, 2002, 07:55 AM
People who lack compassion for animals shouldn't be in the sport. BarbB (is that pronounced Barbie?), you should be careful about "labeling" anyone---as you will always jump to conclusions that are erroneous. An "Animal Rights" advocate believes horses shouldn't be ridden or used for any form of human entertainment. I have four show jumpers.
People who blow off the needless, truly needless and wasteful, death of a great competitor simply because he's a horse, have, in my mind, no compassion.
Other writers have a point---perhaps this was "just an accident." But we kid ourselves if we ignore the fact upper-level XC courses are made purposefully so difficult that a predictable number of horses (and sometimes humans) will die or sustain serious injuries trying to get through them.
Cheers to all.

"Everything that doesn't kill you, makes you stronger."
Nietzsche

bigdreamer
Aug. 6, 2002, 07:57 AM
i think we all are entitled to our opinions... but we know where this is going to! I dont agree with saying "your opinion is WRONG, mine is RIGHT, that's final". But we all know that that is going through everyones mind... "How safe IS this?". Animal right's activists are gunna start getting on our case, and who knows how many others. This is the 3rd horse (that i know of, perhaps more) in advanced level competition that has died just this year! We DO need to do SOMETHING to make this sport safer... I can't imagine going home from a show without my horse! I'm just afraid that something may happen where eventing is made illegal!!! That is a far extreeme, but who knows what could happen... Heck, they made saying God(no offense to ANYONE, just trying to make a point) in the pledge of allegiance illegal, why not make eventing illegal??
Yes there is a risk assumed with this sport, and i completly AGREE with the person who stated that the horse knows what risk is since it lives based on risk, but we should do everything possible to make this sport safer. I Hope that new eventing facilities start building collapseable jumps, etc. to make this safer. Yes, it will take some time to "convert", and definately money, but it is something that SHOULD be done, and I can guarantee in the future in omnibuses we will see whether they have collapseable jumps or not, and people will pick which events they go to based on that.
I guess, after saying all that, I must say I am split in the middle. I LOVE eventing, with a PASSION, and would never EVER stop. Though after Rolex, when I found out about Titleist, I cried. I imagined coming home from an event without my hrose, and just cried. Then I rode again and forgot about it. Perhaps this could just be used as a reminder to ALL of us, that this is a RISK. No qualifications to get to the advanced/4* level would have stopped that freak accident. Sh*t happens... and unfortunately our sport invites sh*t TO happen. It's not everyday you see people walking around and look at a giant porcupine-looking bush, or a giant snake or duck (what's up w/ designers and the "animal" craze?) and say "hey, let's go jump that with a horse!" Our riders are brave (well, at that level I hope they are!), they know the risk that they are putting themselves and their horses at. While some may think it is unfair to the horses, as stated before, the horse wouldn't do it if they didnt want to. They know when a risk is around, and most horses would stop/run out if they saw a risk of jumping a jump.
I will stop babbeling now and just say let's hope for a safer future, so that this DOESN'T happen again. It's too bad it took horses lives to encourage them to make safer jumps... at least they know now.

~laura~
RIP scopey.

member of the ~*~leasing a horse b/c i can't afford my own clique~*~ and the *~*Michigan clique*~* and the ~*~BBers at night clique~*~

There is something about jumping a horse over a fence,
something that makes you feel good. Perhaps it is the risk, the gamble. In any event it's a thing I need. ~William Faulkner

piaffeprincess98
Aug. 6, 2002, 08:07 AM
That's is truely terrible. I'm frantically digging around trying to find some pics of High Scope to post. I've found a few of Bruce on Little Tricky (I think) from Morven Park in Match so you all can see once again, what a great horseman he is.

~*Lindsay*~
A proud co-owner of CorLin PROductions, specializing in dressage, eventing, and hunter/jumper digital photography.

~*Co-founder of the COTH Photographer's clique*~

piaffeprincess98
Aug. 6, 2002, 08:09 AM
one more

~*Lindsay*~
A proud co-owner of CorLin PROductions, specializing in dressage, eventing, and hunter/jumper digital photography.

~*Co-founder of the COTH Photographer's clique*~

piaffeprincess98
Aug. 6, 2002, 08:11 AM
I've found one! I think this is High Scope at FHI last fall.

~*Lindsay*~
A proud co-owner of CorLin PROductions, specializing in dressage, eventing, and hunter/jumper digital photography.

~*Co-founder of the COTH Photographer's clique*~

tle
Aug. 6, 2002, 08:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Other writers have a point---perhaps this was "just an accident." But we kid ourselves if we ignore the fact upper-level XC courses are made purposefully so difficult that a predictable number of horses (and sometimes humans) will die or sustain serious injuries trying to get through them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ARE YOU FRIGGIN SERIOUS???!!!!???? WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME **YOU** ATTENDED A SEMINAR WITH THE WORLD'S TOP XC DESIGNER? Huh?? Please, oh great one, impart your knowledge of XC course design upon those of us compassionless imbiciles. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Gimme a break. If you truly think that XC designers wish for anyone, horse or human, to get seriously injured or die on their courses, you need some serious medication before going back to join your PETA pals. Please go back to troll-land.

************
YEA RED WINGS!!! 2002 STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS!! HOCKEYTOWN FOREVER!!

If Dressage is a Symphony... Eventing is Rock & Roll!

Survivor thoughts -- Thailand here we come. BTW PICK ME FOR S6!!

BarbB
Aug. 6, 2002, 08:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by earthquake:
People who lack compassion for animals shouldn't be in the sport. BarbB (is that pronounced Barbie?), you should be careful about "labeling" anyone---as you will always jump to conclusions that are erroneous. An "Animal Rights" advocate believes horses shouldn't be ridden or used for any form of human entertainment. I have four show jumpers. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Earthquake,
Actually, I have been showing dogs and horses for over 30 years and have met many, many people who embrace some or even most of the animal rights philosophies but not all.
Many of them consider that they and the people they know personally are ok animal owners, but most other people are not.

A basic premise of animal rights is that animals have the same rights as people, should never be bought or sold and that euthanasia is murder.

If you are not an advocate of animal rights and you were offended by my post, I apologize.

I also suggest that you re-read some of your previous posts on these boards, especially where you have chastised people for making decisions for horses when they would not do the same if the horse was a person. It smacks of animal rights to me.

And just FYI, my animals live better than most people and my life revolves around them, but they are animals and I have spent my life fighting the extreme animal rights contingent - not to be confused with animal welfare.

Your remark about jumping to conclusions is absolutely right - I suggest you follow it yourself.
(you posted:)
"I think it's absolutely disgusting and outrageous that horses should be made to pay with their lives for man-made competitions and "sport."

I think it is outrageous that someone would post this statement on this thread at this time.

BarbB
ps
the "B" is just an initial - there is another "Barb" who posts regularly on COTH - "gwen"

charter member BEQS Clique & Invisible Poster Clique

Pixie Dust
Aug. 6, 2002, 08:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by earthquake:
An "Animal Rights" advocate believes horses shouldn't be ridden or used for any form of human entertainment.

"Everything that doesn't kill you, makes you stronger."
Nietzsche<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Says who? I advocate rights for animals, yet I am not against riding horses, or eventing, or even fox-hunting for that matter. All the animals in these disciplines actually have rights. Anyway, neither here nor there.....forks and mashed potatoes, you may want to
read Nietzche.

I still think that Bruce Davidson and whatever horse he is riding is safer on the eventing field than the Capital Beltway. /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

It's so easy to laugh; it's so easy to hate; it takes guts to be gentle and kind.... The Smiths

hitchinmygetalong
Aug. 6, 2002, 08:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by earthquake:

People who blow off the needless, truly needless and wasteful, death of a great competitor simply because he's a horse, have, in my mind, no compassion.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would just like to point out that after carefully reading this thread, I cannot find anything that indicates anyone is "blowing off" this horse's death.

I was at Rolex this year and Bruce Davidson and High Scope made an indelible impression on me, and their stadium jumping round was something that I will never, ever forget.

I don't think I have ever seen a horse jump with what can only be expressed as pure joy.

I am filled with sorrow at his passing, and can only imagine the pain Mr. Davidson and High Scope's owner's, grooms, and extended "family" must be going through.

I wish Mr. Davidson a speedy and uneventful recovery, and look forward to seeing him back in the saddle.

Please, let's put all this bickering aside for a few moments and honor the horse and the rider.

bigdreamer
Aug. 6, 2002, 08:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> originally posted by hitchinmygetalong: Please, let's put all this bickering aside for a few moments and honor the horse...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

THANK YOU. i got a little off in my previous post... make another thread if you guys want to argue about this stuff... High Scope loved his job, it was obvious. So don't aruge about it in front of his face (you never know, he could be reading these posts because his name is on it- since he is in horsey-heaven... hide it so he won't see the contraversy he caused!)

~laura~

member of the ~*~leasing a horse b/c i can't afford my own clique~*~ and the *~*Michigan clique*~* and the ~*~BBers at night clique~*~

There is something about jumping a horse over a fence,
something that makes you feel good. Perhaps it is the risk, the gamble. In any event it's a thing I need. ~William Faulkner

Geroni-mo-oh-oh
Aug. 6, 2002, 08:32 AM
Says who? I advocate rights for animals, yet I am not against riding horses, or eventing, or even fox-hunting for that matter. All the animals in these disciplines actually have rights. Anyway, neither here nor there.....forks and mashed potatoes, you may want to
read Nietzche.

Dear BGW: Says PETA---by whose members I've been chastised for riding and showing.

"Everything that doesn't kill you, makes you stronger."
Nietzsche

JAGold
Aug. 6, 2002, 08:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by earthquake:
But we kid ourselves if we ignore the fact upper-level XC courses are made purposefully so difficult that a predictable number of horses (and sometimes humans) will die or sustain serious injuries trying to get through them.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have to agree with TLE's sentiments with regards to this statement. Frankly, earthquake, for someone who doesn't know how our sport is scored, you sure have a lot of oppinions on how it is run.

XC courses are designed to educate and challenge horses and riders. At the upper levels, designers specifically talk about creating courses that separate the best from the rest without putting less prepared riders in danger. (Read articles about the Rolex course design.) Course design guidelines are specifically intended to promote safety.

Course designers have to be certified. They attend, and many give, clinics, where a frequent topic is how to build safe courses that test the best and keep others safe. Safety is a constant theme. Do you know who Nick Holmes-Smith, Tommy Brennan, and Michael Etherington-Smith are? They are amongst the best course designers in the business. Please do not insult them by implying that they build courses that are intended to kill a predetermined number of horses.

There have been numerous rule changes and new trends designed to increase safety without undermining sport. In the mid 1990s, for example, adding a lip to the back of table fences became a requirement. Fences are designed to be taken apart very quickly to free a trapped horse. Designers are experimenting with new materials. Courses are becoming more technical and less physically demanding -- horses and riders are not likely to be injured by having an error at a narrow fence, for example -- they will just have a run out. Also, the increased use of options means that riders don't have to tackle the difficult questions they are not up to. Instead, they can take a longer, easier route.

There is a fairly widespread consensus that eventing increasingly emphasizes dressage and show jumping where as in the past XC was the determining factor. There is a move towards precision over brute strength.

I don't know where you get your information and on what you base your opinions, but you are kidding yourself if you think for one minute that event riders do not care tremendously about the safety of their horses and that safety is not a prime concern of officials in our sport. --Jess

Pixie Dust
Aug. 6, 2002, 08:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by earthquake:

Dear BGW: Says PETA---by whose members I've been chastised for riding and showing.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, well I use the dictionary to define words.

piaffeprincess98
Aug. 6, 2002, 08:46 AM
here's one of High Scope at Rolex.

over the corner (http://chronofhorse.infopop.net/2/OpenTopic/s/691099205/a/ga/ul/1513079715/rolex350.jpg)

In SJ at Rolex (http://chronofhorse.infopop.net/2/OpenTopic/s/691099205/a/ga/ul/6063079715/rolex117.jpg)

hitchinmygetalong
Aug. 6, 2002, 08:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hitchinmygetalong:

Please, let's put all this bickering aside for a few moments and honor the horse and the rider.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you would all like to argue "animal rights" perhaps you can start a new topic.

Thank you.

bigdreamer
Aug. 6, 2002, 08:53 AM
go post in the other area... and respect hitchinmygetalong's thoughts. k????? k!

member of the ~*~leasing a horse b/c i can't afford my own clique~*~ and the *~*Michigan clique*~* and the ~*~BBers at night clique~*~

There is something about jumping a horse over a fence,
something that makes you feel good. Perhaps it is the risk, the gamble. In any event it's a thing I need. ~William Faulkner

Daydream Believer
Aug. 6, 2002, 09:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bigdreamer:
But we all know that that is going through everyones mind... "How safe IS this?". Animal right's activists are gunna start getting on our case, and who knows how many others. This is the 3rd horse (that i know of, perhaps more) in advanced level competition that has died just this year! We DO need to do SOMETHING to make this sport safer...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

bigdreamer...where were you at yesterday when I argued and pleaded this same point on the thread about breakaway fences? I just kept getting slammed and accused of "knee jerk" reactions. One point that Earthquake has that you must concede to her is that eventing is a "sport" or "entertainment." Understandibly, we eventers take it seriously as we should but not everyone else, i.e. animal rights activists, will see it as any more than entertainment...like a movie. Laws were put into place to protect horses during the making of movies such as banning the "running W" which is what caused horses to flip headfirst. Horses used to be killed making movies all the time. Horses now have to be trained to fall on their side, etc...Ever wonder why do many Western movies are made in Spain?...because the animal welfare laws are so tough in the US and so lax in Spain, that's its easier and cheaper to make movies there and they can treat the horses more carelessly.

The threat of laws being enacted on eventing from the outside is very real. If we don't do everything in our power to make this sport as safe as possible for the horses even at the risk of "changing" the sport such as easing up on speeds...new fence building standards such as the breakaways, etc... than we may find ourselves backed into a corner eventually by angry non horse owners and people who really don't have a clue about what we do.

Please realize that I mean no disrespect for Bruce by posting on this thread in this manner. He is an icon of American eventing and one of my heroes. His accident was probably not preventable and could have happened to anyone but the discussion about safety and the future of eventing is relavent considering the fatalities in our sport this year.

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself." D.H. Lawrence

Pixie Dust
Aug. 6, 2002, 09:01 AM
Thanks PP, OH, just look at his face!

I think someone mentioned it before, but what was his breeding?

northcountry
Aug. 6, 2002, 09:13 AM
So sad for such an amazing horse to be lost. Here's his web site: High Scope home page (http://www.highscopeglobal.com/High-Scope_home.htm).

piaffeprincess98
Aug. 6, 2002, 10:51 AM
No problem. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif He was a nice looking horse wasn't he? I love WB's and X's. I tend to get along with them better, maybe that's why I liked High Scope!

I wish I had some more pics from Rolex of him, but I cna't seem to find my Rolex disk. I'm getting worried now!

~*Lindsay*~
A proud co-owner of CorLin PROductions, specializing in dressage, eventing, and hunter/jumper digital photography.

~*Co-founder of the COTH Photographer's clique*~

tuxedo
Aug. 6, 2002, 11:18 AM
Bruce has a broken collar bone, ribs, pelvis and a punctured lung. He is expected to make a complete recovery. Scopey did not survive the accident.

Bruce probably was riding his pants off, but keep in mind that this is normal for him. He generally rides several horses at each competition without incident. This is an unfortunate accident, but an accident none the less.

Sandy M
Aug. 6, 2002, 11:58 AM
I don't think it applies in this case, since apparently High Scope was only Bruce's 2nd ride on the course, but back in the '60s, after the Rome Olympics, Laurie Morgan of Australia (gold medla team of the '60 Olympics) rode and placed three horses at Badminton. After that, they apparently decided that that was asking too much of a rider and for safety reasons, limited competitors to two horses.

Now, these days, they limit rides at Badminton because they have so many entries, so the safety factor of multiple rides isn't considered. I wonder if there isn't some validity to such a limitation - if some people (and I am NOT saying that was the case with this accident - which was simply that, an accident) don't stretch themselves a little too thin in terms of strength, endurance and judgment by riding too many horses. Just something else to factor in.

Personally, I stopped eventing at Preliminary because I didn't trust MY judgment as courses got more and more technical - my horse certainly had the scope and speed, but I didn't care to risk his neck (or mine) if I was not confident of my abilities to handle the technical challenges. I was in my 30s then, and certainly fit to ride more than one horse, especially at horse trials level, but I'm am not, would never be, nor ever aspired to Mr. Davidon's level.

The idea of breakaway fences certainly sounds like a development who's time has come. It took Sheila Wilcox's devastating, eventing-career- and almost life-ending injuries, to even get us to the point of fences that could be quickly broken apart to free trapped horses/riders. Perhaps these increasing recent incidents/accidents will boost such safety developments in course building as these "frangible fences".

Pat Ness
Aug. 6, 2002, 02:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Helen:
High Scope was my current favorite horse competing in the upper levels... I'm crushed to find out that he died. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because I was glad it wasn't Little Tricky, my favorite. Of course, like everyone else, I wish it wasn't either one of them /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Pat Ness