Arab sporthorses and Arab/warmblood crosses

[Sportpony]

Having admired Arabians for years, I notice that there are now several Arabian stallions approved into different sporthorse/warmblood registries as well as a number of Arabian mares.

Some of the high scoring AWR Sportpony inspected this year were also part Arab.

Those of you who are using Arabs for crossbreeding, either for sport horses or sport ponies ... how do see the current market? Are you finding the majority of your buyers are "Arab people" wanting to do more ... and are they looking for purebreds or halfbreds? If you are getting inquiries from the USDF/open sporthorse people, why are they going to the Arab crosses ... to ride? to breed?

And where do you market the horses/ advertise? Besides the traditional sporthorse venues, COTH, Hunter & Sporthorse, etc. ... is there an Arab Sport magazine ... or does one of the Arab magazines devote one or more issues to the Arab sporthorse?

Kaleidoscope Farm
http://www.stallionstation.com/kaleidoscopefarm
Colored sporthorses & sportponies for non-traditional riders

[Sportpony]

Having admired Arabians for years, I notice that there are now several Arabian stallions approved into different sporthorse/warmblood registries as well as a number of Arabian mares.

Some of the high scoring AWR Sportpony inspected this year were also part Arab.

Those of you who are using Arabs for crossbreeding, either for sport horses or sport ponies ... how do see the current market? Are you finding the majority of your buyers are "Arab people" wanting to do more ... and are they looking for purebreds or halfbreds? If you are getting inquiries from the USDF/open sporthorse people, why are they going to the Arab crosses ... to ride? to breed?

And where do you market the horses/ advertise? Besides the traditional sporthorse venues, COTH, Hunter & Sporthorse, etc. ... is there an Arab Sport magazine ... or does one of the Arab magazines devote one or more issues to the Arab sporthorse?

Kaleidoscope Farm
http://www.stallionstation.com/kaleidoscopefarm
Colored sporthorses & sportponies for non-traditional riders

[Daventry]

Along with the Arabian and Half-Arabian Nationals, they now have Arabian Sport Horse Nationals.

Personally, none of our buyers want a horse with Arab in it. Unfortunately, they get a bad rap for being spooky, high strung and hot although, they're not all like that. But it's like any stereotype. People tend to remember the bad ones.

We avidly buy, train and sell sport ponies and people won't even look at the pony if it's got any Arab breeding in it. We're normally asked for Welsh and Welsh crosses. Some of our best little ponies have had Arab in them and they not only have more heart but their movement is outstanding but I have to give the public what they want or I wouldn't be making any money!

[Lisamarie8]

but I fell in LOVE with an oldenburg arab cross in college. I always thought a wb/arab would make the best cross.

So, should you decide to start a control group, feel free to send one my way /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

--- And how did you feel about being denied these Hungry Hippos?

[Medievalist]

My mom has one. Ariba of Aslan a DW/arab cross schooled up through PSG/GP I think. She does piaffe and canter pirouettes and all that jazz. She's pretty cool. There are a few arab crosses at her barn(Starwest in New Berlin, IL). The most notable is Kate Fleming's LA Baltic Mariner, who has been very successful in the JR/YR stuff. I like them. It makes a nice cross. I don't know anything about how they sell though.

Bah. Ma vie est en train de me rendre folle.

Centre Equestre de la Houssaye (http://www.eii.fr/houssaye)

[spirit]

A friend of mine just had her 1/2 arabian, 1/2 hanovarian stallion approved with the Canadian Sport Horse. She will definitely be testing the market with the warmblood and arabian people; it will be interesting to see what happens. Oh, and the stallion is gorgeous and very athletic!

[mmaurer]

my future market(I have 4 arab/warmblood foals coming) will be in the hunter market. I have people looking for half arab/half warmblood(reg half arabs) that are big and going over fences. Good bloodlines, athletic horses who are out doing in the ring competing and being seen are the way to go.

good luck

Leslie Maurer
Jump The Moon Sporthorses
Home of Echo Shea (arab sporthorse) and Outrageous Fortune(overo Pinto RPSI)

[NZ Loopy Lu]

more and more horses are coming up the ranks that have a dash of Arab in their makeup. I personally ride a very sucessful eventer (now retired from top level competition) and his breeding includes about 1/16th Arabian. I think that he has inherited his 'spook' from his Arab ancestry however this makes him one of the cleanest most careful jumpers I have come across. He doesn't touch a thing! He's incredibly honest and careful. He also has clydesdale in his breeding and is by a full TB stallion. At 22 years of age he is still going strong and going out and producing the results (sure, at the lower levels altho I am sure he is still capable of winning bigger stuff).

In my breeding programme I am trying to produce all-round sport horses with temperament and ability. To do this I am breeding from horses with TB, Irish Draft, Clydesdale and Arabian bloodlines. Time will tell whether I will be sucessful or not but I sure plan to have some fun along the way /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I love the Arabian horse, it has strength of character, beauty, stunnig movement and phenomenal stamina. I also love the speed and agility of the modern day TB and the sheer brawn and good temperament/level head of the Irish and Clydesdale horses. I just hope that my foals will emulate all the positive traits of their bloodlines ... breeding will always be such a gamble.

I have attached a pic of the 1/16th Arabian Eventer/Show Jumper that I own.

Loopy Lu

PS I realise that this is no strictly in keeping with the thread as I am not talking about the Arab/WarmbloodX but I thought that I would share anyway /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Proud member of the IDAC clique
http://community.webshots.com/user/hazelbabe2

[Sportpony]

Spirit ... does your friend have a website where I could see a photo of the Canadian approved stallion? Would like to see the cross ...

Leslie ... went to your website, lovely horses ... will be interested to see the foals you are expecting this spring. What breeds of warmblood mares?

NZ ... georgous horse, great jump ... and while I no longer do any jumping myself, my preference was always for a careful jumper.

I do find it interesting that there is so much resistance in some circles with the Arab crosses. I did own several Arabs a number of years ago and with just a couple of exceptions, found them to be very sensible and trainable.

I also find it interesting that many of the pony buyers will not look at something with Arab breeding (if they know it's there) but there have been a surprising number of the Arab crosses that have score very high at the AWR sportpony inspections.

Kaleidoscope Farm
http://www.stallionstation.com/kaleidoscopefarm
Colored sporthorses & sportponies for non-traditional riders

[Anne]

It would be interesting to differentiate between the IAHA/Arab "Breed show world" and the USAEq (there, I said it, not AHSA, aren't you all proud of me?!?) "open show" hunter/jumper/dressage market.

Leslie, I think you are involved with the IAHA Half Arabian shows. Are half warmblood crosses what's winning in the "hunter" classes there? (I know when you say English to these folks that means saddleseat!)

Came back to add.... There have been plenty of fancy USAEq ponies that have a dash or more of Arab in their backgrounds. Farmgate has not posted here in a long time, but I remember her threads about Al-Marah Lord Elope, who was a very prolific pony sire.

*****************************
Custom Needlepoint Belts (http://www.freewebs.com/belts)

[monami]

Sportpony:

I have a yearling filly that is out of a Crabbet bred Arabian and by pintofoal's State of the Art.

The market for Half-Arab/warmblood crosses is excellent. Although she has not sold yet I received A Lot of interest in her. I have had a few offers on her as well but I am pretty firm on her price since she has shown so well this year as a weanling at some of "A" breed shows, and I would really like to have her until after Sporthorse Nationals

I have found that most of people that are interested or actually all of the people interested are Arab people looking to stay competitive in dressage at the breed shows. The most common question is if she is sweapstakes nominated (which she is) and they like color!!

I have advertised her in the usual online places, and the ARAB sporthorse site - which is free. IAHA has a breed magazine. There was a mag that was only about the arab sporthorse -- but I think they are no longer in publication.


Anne- Although I am really not an "arab" person I do have this filly and a gelding (hmm.. well maybe a little bit of a arab person then!) But I have been to several "A" Arab breed shows and have found the same thing that you probably find in a paint or a QH breed show... basically the Hunters go different (than in an open show)and the judges are not necessarly trained what to look for over fences... That being said that most of the classes are divided between Half-Arabs and purebred so they are not competing against each other. It is just the half-arabs are getting better and better and not to many people are breeding a warmblood cross so the market is good.

The dressage and hunt seat on the flat seems to be a huge draw and the hunters go around in a frame with the riders hands to there knees (Arab folks don't flame me on this-- just calls um like I seez them)

Also, seems like the all the lower level dressage horse go around in this same frame -- but the horses are only bending at the poll-- not truly round with their hindquarters engaged and the riders hands at their knees.
But at the upper you see a lot of stiff competition, with people like Hilda Gurney competing!!

"The poster formerly known as JSTALLINGS."

[monami]

Sportpony:

I have a yearling filly that is out of a Crabbet bred Arabian and by pintofoal's State of the Art.

The market for Half-Arab/warmblood crosses is excellent. Although she has not sold yet I received A Lot of interest in her. I have had a few offers on her as well but I am pretty firm on her price since she has shown so well this year as a weanling at some of "A" breed shows, and I would really like to have her until after Sporthorse Nationals

I have found that most of people that are interested or actually all of the people interested are Arab people looking to stay competitive in dressage at the breed shows. The most common question is if she is sweepstakes nominated (which she is) and they like color!!

I have advertised her in the usual online places, and the ARAB sporthorse site - which is free. IAHA has a breed magazine. There was a mag that was only about the arab sporthorse -- but I think they are no longer in publication.


Anne- Although I am really not an "arab" person I do have this filly and a gelding (hmm.. well maybe a little bit of a arab person then!) But I have been to several "A" Arab breed shows and have found the same thing that you probably find in a paint or a QH breed show... basically the Hunters go different (than in an open show)and the judges are not necessarily trained what to look for over fences... That being said that most of the classes are divided between Half-Arabs and purebred so they are not competing against each other. It is just the half-arabs are getting better and better and not too many people are breeding a warmblood cross so the market is good.

The dressage and hunt seat on the flat seems to be a huge draw and the hunters go around in a frame with the rider’s hands to their knees (Arab folks don't flame me on this-- just calls um like I seez them)

Also, seems like the all the lower level dressage horse go around in this same frame -- but the horses are only bending at the poll-- not truly round with their hindquarters engaged.
riders hands at their knees.
But at the upper you see a lot of stiff competition, with people like Hilda Gurney competing!!

"The poster formerly known as JSTALLINGS."

[monami]

another picture of my filly

"The poster formerly known as JSTALLINGS."

[mmaurer]

let's see, I have babies coming with arab onto the track mare(she is also han. approved) and the selle mare(she is by Perrel) I have 2 babies out of arab mares by my young warmblood stallion who is RPSI and PtHA. SO I will have a chance to see what each of those turn out, none are maiden mares sooo. Oh yeah, my arab mares, one is an old swedish import and the other is egyptian so I am going to have a WIDE range of babies to test what sells /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

My market are the people who show the Arab A(and Nationals) but also do the open hunter. The arab/warmblood crosses I have all seen definately cross over and do the real A hunters. And do them well.

To run ads, definately the online places, also probably in the arab mags but in the COTH of course and probably the other big hunter mags, with pictures.

With the sporthorse nationals coming, this is a whole new market, and people want horses that can do it. At our arab national show Susie Hutchinsen(SP?) rode a horse for a client, as well as other big names. So the market is there but it needs to grow and it will.

Leslie Maurer
Jump The Moon Sporthorses
Home of Echo Shea (arab sporthorse) and Outrageous Fortune(overo Pinto RPSI)

[spirit]

My friend has a VERY SHORT website (soon to be added to). She is concentrating on her stallion's performance right now, and doesn't have any good pictures of her guy (I'm urging her to take more!). The site is www.espequines (http://www.espequines.com)

[Sportpony]

Please ... a brief explanation of sweepstakes nominated as it applies to half Arabs.

Is this for the foal only (and when should you do it) or does the foal have to be out of a dam or by a sire that is sweepstakes nominated and then be nominated?

And are there more than one sweepstakes ... and which ones do you choose?

Kaleidoscope Farm
http://www.stallionstation.com/kaleidoscopefarm
Colored sporthorses & sportponies for non-traditional riders

[mmaurer]

There is no sweeps payback for the working hunter/jumper and most or all of the dressage, and also nothing for sporthorse in hand class. Most of the arab people who do these classes don't care about sweeps, we can't win any of the money why give the registry any more of money.

If they change and start to give payback then we will change our mind.

And the half arab classes are dominated by arab/saddlebred classes and they win all the nationals champs that offer sweeps money.

but there might be changes but nothing is on the plate for the next 3 years.

Leslie Maurer
Jump The Moon Sporthorses
Home of Echo Shea (arab sporthorse) and Outrageous Fortune(overo Pinto RPSI)

[monami]

sportpony:

Here is the link for sweepstakes info.

http://www.iaha.com/

mmaurer :

There is money to be won at regional level in dressage up to 3rd level. There is also money to be won for babies in halter.

It may not be worth it to you to have the foal nominated, but it may certainly be worth it to the buyer and late entry into the sweepstakes program is around 5k, so it is worth it to nominate.

"The poster formerly known as JSTALLINGS."

[mmaurer]

I thought they took it out of third level, I will have to check. To be brutally honest a warmblood / arab cross will never beat the NSH/crosses at the Regional/national level in halter. The judges want big park moving horses, extremely long necks..they look for the saddlebred types(I was just at nationals) the sporthorse nationals, will cater more to the crosses that are the working types, but there is no payback for sporthorse inhand classes.

Don't forget you don't win money except at the National / Regionals shows, ...

Leslie Maurer
Jump The Moon Sporthorses
Home of Echo Shea (arab sporthorse) and Outrageous Fortune(overo Pinto RPSI)

[suecoo]

I'm looking at a very cute IDSH that is half Arab. I asked two very well educated (BHS) friends to take a look at the video I'd received and both immediately had comment on the horse's movement. She is straight and very correct, with an extremely nice trot, but her canter was "different". When I told them she was half Arab, they both said yes, that was what she moved like, ".... an Arab!". I get the impression that some people find some fault with Arab movement. Can someone explain this to me? Is it short stridedness? What? Why is there such prejudice w/ Arabs? I personally like her very much and think if I were to get her and eventually breed her, the canter issue would be her only "fault", and something that could be improved upon by breeding to a TB or WB. What are the chances of improving her canter with dressage work? I'd really appreciate hearing your comments on what you tend to see movement wise with Arab crosses. Thanks! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Member Of The Texas & TB Cliques

[Sportpony]

I have seen this in some Arabs ... or at least I'm seeing what they are seeing, anyway ... something I personally term the "Bambi bounce" ... kind of a tendency to "bounce" off the ground and perhaps a little "stiff-legged" rather than a smooth, regular, round, cadenced canter.

It is something I've seen in other breeds than Arabs, as well ... even some of my warmblood weanlings have done this when they are playing ... but seems as if some of the Arabs don't outgrow it as thoroughly as other breeds.

I have had several purebred Arabs and never saw a problem with the canter, but at the time I was also not riding or breeding for dressage/hunters etc. ... so I'm not sure if it is something that will be completely eradicated with training or not.

I've not trained/ridden any halfbred Arab/warmblood crosses so don't know the situation there but I do know that there are a number of very successful part Arabs in the sportpony disciplines and I do not recall hearing that it is considered a problem.

Kaleidoscope Farm
http://www.stallionstation.com/kaleidoscopefarm
Colored sporthorses & sportponies for non-traditional riders

[monami]

Most of the movement biased is not usually with the Arabs gaits, but with problem in engaging them from behind during collected work . Many Arab breeders breed very long flat backed horses that are desirable in Halter classes. But when these horses move from to halter ring to performance they really are not physically designed to do the job. They also usually have a tendency to jump flat backed. That said I have seen some awesome moving Arabs!! In fact my neighbor has a 4th level (schooling PSG) purebred gelding that is to die for. He moves like warmblood, but is only 14.3hh. When I rode him I was amazed at how "big" he felt and kinda forgot how little he was until I dismounted!!

Arab blood is in every breed, and I think all of the warmblood registries accept pure bred Arabs in their studbooks because they really do have so many wonderful traits and can really improve heavier horses, so I imagine that an Arab / RID cross would be just fabulous.

IMO I would look at the hose the same way as you would look at any other horse because they all have some arab in them. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"The poster formerly known as JSTALLINGS."

[Arabbreeder]

I love them! My stallion is a sporthorse all the way. I have BIG BIG plans for him /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

He is currently in training, and will go on to Dressage, jumping, hunter pleasure and halter (breed shows). I plan on taking him to his first test in 2004 for becoming licensed... on and on from there!

There is a HUGE untapped market for the Arabian sporthorse and Arab crosses, HUGE. Getting bigger all the time as Arabians are receiving their just due for contributing to so many countless competitive WINNING sporthorses!

My biggest peeve is with people who utilize the talent the Arabian brings to the horse WITHOUT giving credit where credit is due. THAT's the number one reason Arabians have a bad rep. IMO. Horror stories are much more entertaining are they not? If more people would stop hiding the Arabian ancestry in their horses, more people would stop feeling that Arabians are hot, hard to train, or any number of the myths that surround them. Arabians are one of the EASIEST horses to train /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

As far as a stiff-legged or choppy canter... blame it on the show ring, BOY has that messed up a whole lot of horses! But no, as a general rule that isn't true, at least not when you look to the CLASSIC Arabian in a well-bred performance horse.

Short strided? Some are, some aren't as in any breed, you have to FIND true Arabian sporthorses, the type of conformation that will do the job in the competitive area that you want to go into.

I feel the BEST representative of all Arabians is a versatile, kind, competitive, enduring sporthorse that can take their child charge out on the trail and keep her safe, and go on to a 100 day test the next day and score a 90% or better! And there are many many many that have done just that!

The market and "buzz" is only beginning. I see great things for my breed with all the new sporthorse divisions at the breed shows as well as the new Sporthorse Nationals. It'll only make the world recognize the Arabian as it was first created, it'll stop some of the "fad" breeders who breed for bloodlines or "name" because there is money behind it, with little regard to the fact that some of the things being bred for are NOT in the horse's best interest.

Off my soapbox now... here's the link to my stallion, Kjan Kowboy. Remember him, he's coming!!!!!! http://www.blackvistaarabians.com

PSSST he's got the BEST CANTER IN THE WORLD AND AN AWESOME TROT TO BOOT! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif 100% collection, HUGE HUGE stride and he's only barely 15hh!

[jackie]

if I am not mistaken, Abdullah's dam Abiza was by an arab stallion (maharaja(??)). So if by chance I am correct (well sometimes I am), he would have been 1/4 arab!

[spirit]

Abiza, the dam of Abdulla is by Maharadscha by Famulus by Fetsyz. Fetysz was arabian, and made quite a mark on the trakehner breed. If you go back in the bloodlines of most trakehners, you will find arabian and thoroughbred blood. This would make Abiza 1/8 arabian and Abdullah 1/16. This is, of course without counting "blood" that way way back.

[aereal]

many times champion conformation horse, dressage, hunter and eventing. You name it she was a champion. Won in open and sporthorse showing, had a very hard time winning in the arabs though. Produced two offspring by a dutch WB, both are also winners.

[aereal]

Canadian national Champion conformation horse. Very athletic, would have been a great show horse for me, but unfortunately had a pasture accident and isn't really rideable. Now a broodmare, first foal due in April - bred to our Fred - wanting the ultimate hunter! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Tom King]

Flat croups have not always been cherished by Arab breeders. If you can find Arabs with a fair percentage of foundation blood (such as Hallany Mistanny http://www.basec.net/~amira/page8.html ) you will see that they can have nice round rumps. We have such a mare and would not take anything for her. We bought her cheap because she has an "awful round rump". 15 hands and three amazing gaits. She has intelligence beyond any horse I have ever known. For instance she not only will stand still for fly spray but knows when she needs it and will come asking. She is the mother of the colt in the earlier post titled "we can't teach this colt anything". She is the intentional and unintentional line breeding from the two Babson horses that produced Hallany Mistanny.

[Tom King]

Another reference to Hallany Mistanny with photos.
http://www.elmasri.net/hallanymistanny1937.htm
Our mare looks just like the first two pictures, only bay.

[BravAddict]

I don't go for that. Although I don't even own a horse, I am an avid Arab-lover, and I am very very very very (I'm not kidding) partial to *Raffles-bred horses.
During the 80's is when "table-top croups" started becoming really fashionable, but if you poke around the Old American and Crabbet people, you find their horses are substantial, beautiful movers, with correct gaits and useful hind ends. There was a thread on the White Horse forums about Arab rear ends, and most people still have that one fantastic classically-bred old mare with a nice backside.
I'm not sure if this is allowed; if not, please feel free to take them off. I'm not trying to promote the stallions, I wasn't paid, and I don't own them, I'm merely offering them as examples.
http://www.arabsporthorse.com/
http://www.angelfire.com/bc3/fairviewstud/ (If I get the horsie I want, it's coming from here /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)
http://www.arabiandreamfarm.com/Crabbet_Arabian_Stallion_Magic_Domino.htm
http://www3.telus.net/carterbk/cruiser.htm
http://www.arab-sporthorses.com/
http://www.kossack.com/gomel2.htm
(This is in German, and the English version isn't really all there yet last I checked, but it's pretty neat, and they have some lovely horsies there).

I'm willing to claim that most of the "problems" with Arabian horses are a result of the last 50 years of breeding...as well as people not trying. They're just different. They think and look differently from other horses, that's all. Bore/overwork/annoy them and they will *make* their own fun. It seems to be not so big a "problem" in other countries. A lot of Australian horses still have a lot of Crabbet in them and tend to be pretty nice. I'm so biased /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I have lots of other opinions, but I'll stuff them in my soap box for another day.

I'm a Schoolie and I'm Proud.
I miss Bravado.

[monami]

WOW.. I can't believe so many Arab people out there!! Soooo who is planning on going to Sporthorse Nationals this next year???

I will be taking my filly (she is qualified already) in sporthorse in hand and my purebred *Bask gelding in sporthorse in hand (need to qualify first) and possibly an under saddle class-- Just for fun--

the gelding has really never done anything -- in fact he was dumped at my barn by a teenager who couldn't handle him.. Although I wanted to dump him at someone else’s barn many times /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif he turned out to be a really special and beautiful horse -- probably the smartest and umm silliest sometimes spookiest friend/horse I ever met /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

"The poster formerly known as JSTALLINGS."

[mmaurer]

the only classes that you have to qualify for are dressage one, everything else is open for next year, of course how much you can spend makes the difference on how many classes. figure one horse 2 classes-about 700..not including tack stalls, camping, food, transportation etc.

Yeap I have one maybe two going.

Leslie Maurer
Jump The Moon Sporthorses
Home of Echo Shea (arab sporthorse) and Outrageous Fortune(overo Pinto RPSI)

[monami]

mmaurer


Did something change???? It has been (a least all summer long) that you needed to place 1-6 in an "A" in sporthorse?? When did they change that??

"The poster formerly known as JSTALLINGS."

[mmaurer]

this is from the website, there has only ever been the dressage classes to qualify. The first to 6th was for the working hunter divisions this year at nationals.

"Qualifications will only be required for Dressage horses for the 2003 Sport Horse Nationals. Qualifications for horses entered in Hunter, Jumper or Sport Horse Division classes have been waived and are not required. "

Entries close August 6

Leslie Maurer
Jump The Moon Sporthorses
Home of Echo Shea (arab sporthorse) and Outrageous Fortune(overo Pinto RPSI)

[mmaurer]

opps guess I should say why. Many regions and regional shows are not offering the sporthorse classes consitently or even the hunter(region 13..nothing) so to make it fair and to help boost entries they decided from the beginning that for the first couple of years no qualifing was required. The dressage was left with qualifing because they were worried about having so many dressage horses that they would be there a month with just them /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Good Luck

Leslie Maurer
Jump The Moon Sporthorses
Home of Echo Shea (arab sporthorse) and Outrageous Fortune(overo Pinto RPSI)

[luckyduck]

I have one...a palomino SWB/Arab 2 year old stallion. www.westwindfarm.net (http://www.westwindfarm.net) (front page....under "NEWS!")

I would do it again.

As for the market....no one has turned a nose up to him yet. We will be breeding him to a limited number of welsh mares this season and next year he will start crossing back to my other half of the breeding program which are AQHA/Morab/Welsh mixes.

[dressager]

I have a wonderful weanling filly out of a Crabbet bred mare (Comment from stallion owner- nice round rump! Thank goodness!) who is double Abu Farwa/Ga'Zi bred with *Raffles, Fadjur (through Fadjura), and *Naborr. Her sire is the Legion of Merit stallion Neesaan ++ (Anyone have any information on him?).

I am very pleased with "Nika" who is by the Lipizzan stallion Pluto Gloria II-1. All of the Lipizzan/Arab crosses I have seen have been very nice- Lipizzan movement with Arab refinement.

Does anyone know what kind of Half Arab sporthorse classes would be available to us in 2004 or 2005?

********
Bid High, Bid Often, Bid for Aiden.

17 days until I go home!

[suecoo]

I'm attaching a photo of the horse I'm looking at. What are your opinions? I haven't seen her in person yet, but may go see her this weekend (depending on the weather). /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Member Of The Texas & TB Cliques

[This message was edited by suecoo on Dec. 03, 2002 at 10:10 AM.]

[SAS]

I have a 17 hand anglo-arab gelding that I can't wait to take to sport horse nationals. We showed him only in h/a hunter pleasure this past year due to some off and on lameness problems because he ripped some foot off in the spring. We were pretty successful in the hunter pleasures as he can be pretty fancy moving and is just so big and impressive. He was 3rd in all 4 regional classes that we showed him in.

Finally though, he has a good foot again and we are back to working him over fences - yeah!!!! He came to us with some real training issues - funny about his face/taking a feel of his mouth. However, the year of flat work and us having the whole winter to slowly work over fences should help us a ton. He is doing better than we had expected at this point - we have only been back over fences for about 1 month.

I am looking forward to him showing in the open and a/o working hunters, the amateur equitations(my favorite), hunter hack and maybe even sporthorse geldings though I may want someone with some experience to show him in that for us.

I have very mixed feelings about this whole sport horse nationals thing as I have always had half arabs and have always enjoyed showing at nationals with every other division. I will miss being part of the bigger show. I do however acknowledge that a separate sport horse nationals will open up a whole new market for our horses. And being from New England, I was thrilled that the show will be in Lexington, VA next year - we love showing there for the Region 15 show - what a great facility.

I look forward to the show next year and the improved level of competition that a specialized show will bring. At least with the h/a working hunters, the quality of the horses consistently improves every year. I would say that the top ten in those divisions could hold their own at open shows. I know that we typically get our show miles at open versus breed shows just because they are more accessible and have more divisions.

Good luck to all and hope to see you at Sport Horse Nationals.

[mmaurer]

well the only problem with the big nationals is that all the dressage and hunters end up in the tents and this year..major flooding, then cold, and all the mud in the world, and many lame horses. I for one are dying for a show where we are ALL treated to good stalls instead of just the halter horses.

For sporthorse classes I think they will just continue to add divsions, more ages, plus keeping the under saddle(those are still small but growing)

How well you do at Regionals depends on the Region you are at, Region 13, 14 etc you show against many national champs in hunter pleasure(one regional class last year had more than 6 nationals champs in it..and remember they only place 5...it was just wild. the hunters in our region are half arab have very upright square trots..anything long and floaty..not a look)

Leslie Maurer
Jump The Moon Sporthorses
Home of Echo Shea (arab sporthorse) and Outrageous Fortune(overo Pinto RPSI)

[SAS]

I certainly hear you on the tents at Nationals. AWFUL!!!!! My guy did not show over fences this year - just hunter pleasure - however, we did have one over fences horse from our barn and we too were out in the tents. It was so clear that they put all of the sport horse people out there. The mud, flooded stalls and the cold were just awful. However, I guess with the weather we had that week, it was bad just about anywhere - including over at the premium stalls.

This past year, we showed at Region 15 and 16 and I would say the hunter pleasure classes at Region 15 are very competitive - some of the bigger national level hunter trainers. So, I was pretty proud of my guy for doing so well in big, deep classes - especially with all of the soundness issues we had. He was not able to be worked regularly all summer because of it.

We did take him to Nationals to show in hunter pleasure. As I am sure people have heard or witnessed themselves - the judging by the hunter panel was all over the place. My horse was 3rd on one card in an Open cut and I was 2nd on one card in the AOTR cut. I was proud of him because I felt I had a great ride on him. However, when they only take back 8 in each section and you have 24 horses - lots of good ones get the gate. Oh well, it is on to working hunter next year - maybe hunter pleasure at regionals (for the sweepstakes $) and maybe Canada if we do well at regionals.

I do know that it is hard to do both Hunter Pleasure and the Working hunters. With my old horse, we would actually show him in hunter pleasure with a heavier shoe and then put his aluminums on for working hunters. It worked because he was Top Ten twice in hunter pleasure and National Champion 5 times in the working hunters. I also know of one anglo arab that was Top Ten in the AOTR working hunters, the AOTR 40 and over hunter pleasure and I think 1st level dressage this year - how about that!!!!!!

[jackie]

we have some very dish faced Abdullah grandchildren (1/32 arab I guess?) - now some more famous arab crosses - Ramzes and Inschullah (I won't try to guess what fraction arab they are but I think it is quite a bit!)

[spirit]

Ramzes was an anglo-arab. Lots of arabian blood. He was the sire of Condus

[BravAddict]

Gazal or Pomerants or Burnus X (or his dad Lapis!) or Balaton or Fetysz...
there's two KWPN-approved Araby stallions. One is GIL A, who is by Probat, and BRANCO, who is by Noran.
Here's a nice one for you...The stallion Pomerants sired Khokkey/Hockey/Hockey II who sired the Russian Trakkie stallion OSKAR. Pomerants was out of the foundress of the ever-popular M-line, Mammona. She had the following offspring (from Del-Mar anyways...she had 18 total): Magnolia, by Arax; Nomenklatura, by Naseem; Malpia, Metropolia, Monopolia & Promerants by Priboj. Monopolia had a fantastic daughter by a stallion named Knippel, her name was Monogramma. She set all sorts of records and such. And all the Araby people know who comes next /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Yep, Monogramm! Monogramm was this year's best sire of Arabian Sporthorses by the A.R.A.B.S. stats.
But the trail of the M-Line doesn't end there!!! Remember Metropolia, full sister to Monopolia, Malpia & Pomerants? She produced a daughter named Miest. Miest, in turn, produced that gorgeous PSG Dressage stallion from Kossack, named Gomel.
Ohhh, I am a fountain of useless knowledge. It's good stuff, though...I think so anyways.

I'm a Schoolie and I'm Proud.
I miss Bravado.

[Alagirl]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jackie:
we have some very dish faced Abdullah grandchildren (1/32 arab I guess?) - now some more famous arab crosses - Ramzes and Inschullah (I won't try to guess what fraction arab they are but I think it is quite a bit!)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I think some questions are answered dipping into the *Shagya* thread, a bit down the board.

It is in part a bit like the oriental blood in the early TB - Barb, Turk and Arab, all nicely wrapped into the *Asil Arabian* which may or may not have been pure.....

RPS had traditionaly lots of Arab blood in the breeding, and Trakhener....

[aurum]

Apollon has 12.5% Arabian blood it comes from Maykop ox who is by Pomeranets. Also Malteser Gold had Arabian blood coming from Ramzes X and finally Inspirant has Arabian blood because his sire is Inschallah X. Fetyzs, Ramzes and Inschallah x as well as Bajar have been some of the most influential stallions in the Warmblood scene of Germany.

http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.de
Exceptional colored German Warmbloods

[Equine Connection]

I can only relate to personal experience, but we've had great success thus far in the Arab-Trakehner cross. We have an outstanding German Trakehner whom we bred to 2 lovely quality Arabian mares - one Polish, one Egyptian. The resulting offspring are superb in all respects. While it's too early to tell how they will do in older years w/regard to performance (but this holds true for any breed or young horse), they have excellent movement - powerful, uphill, ground-covering, yet elegant. They seem to have lots of natural talent, balance and are very correct. We are expecting another cross in spring '03 - to a lovely endurance Arabian mare.

I think there is definitely a market for the Arab cross/sporthorse, but with all breeding I believe we should do plenty of upfront research (of both stallion and mare) before breeding to find the best "match" possible within our means, as Mother Nature will take her course from there... /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"HAPPY HOUR" & Hawk's Run Trakehners
http://www.happyhour1.com

[Pony Jumper]

It was so nice to read this big long thread about how nice Arabs can be!

I have a now retired 85% Crabbet mare who was (and still is!) amazing! She was only 14.1, but an excellent mover with an absolutely huge stride. I love the Crabbet/CMK bloodlines, as they have a lot of sustance and are usually put together very well. I showed her in the pony hunters, and then retired her to the Arab circuit when I decided that I didn't want to show her over fences any more because of her age. Under some judges she did very well in the hunter pleasure, but under others very poorly...she was always a much superior mover to the other horses, and because she was well schooled, she could do the "Arab frame" as well as the pony hunter frame, while still coming through from the hind end. We usually did better in equitation on the Arab circuit though and did Youth Nationals. The hunter pleasure classes were just too unpredictable.

I personally am not a big fan of splitting the Sporthorse and Regular Nationals. I have never been to the US Nationals in KY, and I understand that the horse's health is at stake, but I do not like the idea. I think that it will only work to create a bigger rift between the REAL hunters, ie: the ones doing the sporthorse stuff, and the hunter pleasure horses who cross over from show hack and country pleasure. In my opinion, a hunter is a hunter, whether it does h/j, Arab, or QH shows and they should all be judged against the same standard. I have done all three, and I personally think that the breed shows would do best to follow the exmaple that the hunters at the open shows set, as I have seen them to be the most athletic and correct movers, and if the horses are in a hack class, that probably means that they are also in the over fences classes and can jump...meaning they have the stride and athletic capibilities and that they are carrying themselves in a balanced enough way to make it over a fence, which is the purpose of a hunter.
My stomach turns when I see the hunter pleasure classes filled with horses with big shoes and pads.
The judges tend not to be educated about how hutners should go, and too many of the horses crossover from other classes to get more points. At least they use judges with real h/j cards to judge equitation at regionals and nationals! I would recommend that they do the same for the hunter pleasure classes, or drop the "hunter" part of the name, as they sure don't seem to be real hunter classes (althogh there are some judges who do place the more hunter type horses...but even those often have big shoes, as that has become the norm).

I would to find a nice BIG Arab/WBx that I could show in the equitation at "A" h/j shows and in the over fences and equitation divisions at arab shows.
My childrens jumper is an unregistered anglo arab (1/4 arab), and she is so much fun! I wish that she was registered so we could do the jumper classes at Arab shows as well!

[mmaurer]

Pony Jumper
you are the type of person I am trying to breed for. I have three arab/warmblood crossing coming next year, and they will be hunter/jumper. I have so often heard people compaining about not being able to find a registered half arab that can jump is over 16 hands and can do the opens..well I hope to breed just those type of horses.

Leslie Maurer
Jump The Moon Sporthorses
Home of Echo Shea (arab sporthorse) and Outrageous Fortune(overo Pinto RPSI)

[LCR]

Just need to correct a few things. Ramzes was an Anglo/Shagya. His dam was a purebred Shagya, Jordi. He was born in 1035, but his influence is still seen even today. The top 25 finalists in the WEG championships had 32% of them decending from Ramzes. Since there is the "R" line in dressage also, you can see how potent his bloodline is.
We are breeding the Anglo/Shagya and the cross is truly amazing! The Shagya has all of the advantages of the PB Arabian, but less of the negatives, as its always been bred by the keuring process for 200 years. Only 7 out of the 16 ancesters in the fourth generation can be PB Arabians, and most of the European Shagya have hardly any PB in their 4 to 5 generations of breeding. Shagya already have more height, proper croup, powerful hindquarters, good bone and substance and temperament that is just "Shagya"! Hard to describe it, unless you experience it! They love people, will try their hearts out for you and are very steady, reliable mounts. There are very few purebred Shagyas in the U.S. And most of the mares are half-Arab because of a special ruling in 1986 that allowed the U.S. breeders to use Arabian mares that were approved, supposedly, for a short time, in order to increase the numbers.
In Europe, where you see the PB Shagya, you see the true type, that anyone here in the U.S. would recognize as the true sport horse type.
Gazal, Balaton, Bajar, Ghazzir, Nasrallah, Puschkin and Shagal are purebred Shagya and all were approved for Trakehner breeding. Many of these stallions were also used in other Warmblood breeds. Bajar, himself bred 1000 mares of various breeds, so his influence is very dominent.
So when you see "OX" in a pedigree, it may not be PB Arabian, many times it was Shagya. Which if you are breeding sport horses may be a good thing!
www.shagya-arabian.com (http://www.shagya-arabian.com)

[LCR]

Sorry--Ramzes was born in 1935! dumble fingers!

[myrna]

to pony jumper....i agree a hunter is a hunter is a hunter.no matter what the breed...a road hack is a horse that you would take down the road...a show hack should have true collection and extension(out not up) at every gait.i went to scottsdale for the arab show last february.what a disapointment.flash was rewarded instead of "the real thing".i will continue to ride and train my horses to what i have always been taught!!even though it may not be what is "wowing" the judges these days. /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

mm

[mmaurer]

Don't forget the sporthorse nationals are also having a Show Hack but it is a different name. and many different hunter hacks...and Pay back...

Leslie Maurer
Jump The Moon Sporthorses
Home of Echo Shea (arab sporthorse) and Outrageous Fortune(overo Pinto RPSI)

[equescool]

I was not in favor of splitting the nationals, either, but after seeing the terrible consequences of those very inadequate stalls - well, Va Horse Park is a welcome change. The odor of amonia was awful inside as well.

I raise purebred and anglo arabian sporthorses and did so before it was fashionable - which I am delighted it is becoming. I recently sold an anglo gelding (6 yrs) to Steve Rojek of the USA Endurance team that went to WEG in Spain. He is taking dressage lessons two days a week, riding in the Vermont mtns, and popping over fences on the hunt course. I am only sad he is so far away.

I currently have three mares in foal to Lasodo+// who is the Arabian dressage national champion of Canada at Prix St Georges. His website should be up this weekend. I own a 3 yr old gelding sired by him I may take to SHN. This is a half arab who is currently 16.1 and butt high. He is my 'to grow old with' horse out of a half tbred mare I raised on a bottle when I was six months pregnant. Mare and my son are now 22 yrs old. If I can figure out how to do it, I will post a picture of him. Equescool

[equescool]

For your information, a group of us recently initiated an IAHA affiliated arabian sporthorse club that has been approved by IAHA for the southeast (loosely KY, VA, TN, GA, NC, SC, AL, FL). The by laws are similar to the CA/NV Arabian Sporthorse Assoc (CNASHA). By joining together in an alliance the idea is that we can - as a group - do things like advertise in COTH and other sporthorse publications about these wonderful horses as well as establish futurities and regional sporthorse shows and combined events for arabians like the one at FENCE last year. Our website should be up in a few days - still working on pictures and links.

Email me privately if you are interested in this vision. Equescool

[myrna]

anglo arabs rule!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!i could be prejudiced................. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

mm

[Bruboj]

It's great to see all the interest in Arabian/WB crosses. As a long time Arabian owner/exhibitor who is recently getting in to the Sport Horse world I'd have to say that although many American breeding programs are moving in the wrong direction with their Arabians (focusing too much on type and not enough on function) there are a lot of very athletic Arabians out there.

I'm particularly interested because I own an Arabian stallion who's "been there, done that" in the Arabian show ring and is now learning Dressage and showing Second Level. I've recently had him inspected by the AWS, where he was approved for breeding. I've already had some interest from WB mare owners. I'm planning on having him inspected by the ATA in '03. I'll attach a photo of him.

Most of the Arab crosses I've seen have been really neat individuals. I enjoy breeding Arab crosses - although you never know what you're going to get (as with any foal), I'm willing to bet that most are going to be great at something!

It's great to see all the positive attention the Arab crosses are getting!

[Ghazzu]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Medievalist:
My mom has one. Ariba of Aslan a DW/arab cross schooled up through PSG/GP I think. She does piaffe and canter pirouettes and all that jazz. She's pretty cool. There are a few arab crosses at her barn(Starwest in New Berlin, IL). _<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


...as well as more than a few purebreds...Alice has been involved with Arabs in dressage for years. I was there in 1986 for the Davenport Arab stallion quadrille (as a spectator/groom).

Unashamed member of the Arab clique...just settin' on the Group W bench.

[Ghazzu]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by monami:
Sportpony:



... basically the Hunters go different (than in an open show)and the judges are not necessarly trained what to look for over fences... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't know about your part of the country, but in Region 16, the hunter over fences classes are judged by regular hunter judges, who usually aren't Arab judges.

Unashamed member of the Arab clique...just settin' on the Group W bench.

[JackieB]

We have bred a few arab/hanoverian crosses. One filly is just starting u/s and is the quality of being an open dressage prospect. Super movement with a dash of type. The young colt has been shown in hand and holds his own with the best of them. Our best crosses have come by using well bred (Trapper and Wertherson daughters) hanoverian mares and putting the arab on top. We have bred purebred arabians for over 30 years and produced Nat. and Reg. winning horses and I can say by far the crosses have stirred up the most interest.

[SportArab]

We've been breeding Arab-Oldenburg crosses and are very happy with the results. Our first - who is now a yearling - seems to have inherited the best of both worlds. He is by Budweiser and out of the purebred mare, Sasha Bay (Montecito Orion x Mars Fantasy) He's simply lovely, has wonderful elastic movement and still some arabian type.

At 18 months his butt end (the taller at the moment) was about 15.2h. I expect he's going to be a big boy.

For next spring, we have a mare bred back to Budweiser and another in foal to Flyinge Amiral. /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

SportArab

[This message was edited by SportArab on Dec. 10, 2002 at 12:41 PM.]

[Medievalist]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ghazzu:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Medievalist:
My mom has one. Ariba of Aslan a DW/arab cross schooled up through PSG/GP I think. She does piaffe and canter pirouettes and all that jazz. She's pretty cool. There are a few arab crosses at her barn(Starwest in New Berlin, IL). _<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


...as well as more than a few purebreds...Alice has been involved with Arabs in dressage for years. I was there in 1986 for the Davenport Arab stallion quadrille (as a spectator/groom).

Unashamed member of the Arab clique...just settin' on the Group W bench.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That too...the Sir line. Alice is very active with the Arabians. My mom just bought one of those too...I know, I know. She has a herd now lol. She is letting KF try to qualify her mare for Young Riders, so she got another horse to play around on. Anyways, I think she bought Star Sir Romulus? I think that's his name? I'm a horrible daughter...I don't even knowthe name of my mom's new horse /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif He's gone up through 4th level/psg I think....

Didi in T minus 2 days!!!!!!! The papers are finished, only one presentation left at 4pm today....then Wednesday I'm gonna go skiing!

Centre Equestre de la Houssaye (http://www.eii.fr/houssaye)

[Ghazzu]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Medievalist:
[
That too...the Sir line. Alice is very active with the Arabians.
_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I used to live with 3 of Sir's full brothers and a full sister. My late great Tiger was Sir's nephew. He was CMK, half Davenport.
Being the original old Syrian bloodlines, the Davenports make great sporthorses. Not at all those "sausages on toothpicks" halter types, as a friend calls them.

Unashamed member of the Arab clique...just settin' on the Group W bench.

[Medievalist]

We have a 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon horsey connection then, Ghazzu /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Alice is great. Almost makes me wish I had been a dressage rider as a kid!

Didi in T minus 2 days!!!!!!! Done with schoolwork! Going Skiing tomorrow with my not-a-boyfriend! (don't ask)

Centre Equestre de la Houssaye (http://www.eii.fr/houssaye)

[ShowJumps]

A cross can sell quickly and for good money. But these usually are of outstanding quality and bloodlines just as with any other sport horse breed.

I sold my Oldenburg/Arab cross last spring. He was advertised on a Monday and left for a new home in Ohio the next Sunday. Unusually fast? VERY... But my email was clogged by the end of the first day (I still get inquiries about him). Most of those looking had been shopping for a long time. Apparently really good prospects are being snapped up as soon as they come on the market. The girl that bought Ordained came with her trainer, a cashier's check in full and a trailer... She had gone through several 'sales' in the past year that all ended in a bidding war. N /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif I loff Nikki (who bought my boy). He is kickng butt in dressage and she spoils him as badly as I did. Having people look at him was a nightmare. Everyone wanted to get there first. All with the same story: too much demand not enough supply...

Arab-bred sport horses are a bit of a novelty in the breed world. The problem will come later with breeders who will try to step up and fill the demand. Next your going to have a glut of poor quality arab-crosses who can't compete in the open divisions. They might be great trail/pleasure horses but not a good representative of what the breed can do.b

"Elegance is an Attitude"

[mmaurer]

I think it will be a matter of arabs who are approved by warmblood registries. That is the route I am taking, all my mares and stallions must be approved and registered, some are going to have multiple registries. Costs more but it will tell in the end..or so I keep telling my hubby. I am buying a range of different mares to try my stallions to to see what is the best crosses, then I can cull and focus.

Leslie Maurer
Jump The Moon Sporthorses
Home of Echo Shea (arab sporthorse) and Outrageous Fortune(overo Pinto RPSI)

[Pony Jumper]

I agree with showjumps in that I have already seen some people who are trying take advantage of the popularity of the Arab/WBxs by creating yucky crosses. I can especially think of one Arab/Trakehner cross who is pretty nasty. She is small (about 15.1), with strage conformation (very small hind end), bad feet, and an extremely ugly head. She is four years old and already has soundness issues (I don't know if conformation or training releated though). I have seen her sire, the Trakehner, who is okay but not spectacular, but not seen this mare's dam. It is unfortunate that people will see this horse and others like her and assume that an Arab/WB cross is a bad idea, just because she, and other horses, were the result of uneducated or unwise crosses (ie: not adding blood on top, not picking nice enough Arabs, as it is difficult to find ones that have not been ruined by the show ring breeding).
It is great to know that there are so many people on this board who are breeding nice Arab/WB crosses though! I can't wait until some of your crosses grow up, and see them in the ring! Maybe I'll even own one someday, as they sound (and look!) very nice and versatile as well.

[SportArab]

there will always be breeders who produce junk.. there are junky warmbloods. when at the GOV inspection, I heard the inspector tell a breeder (who owned a warmblood mare and had a foal in for inspection) that she should probably not do the cross again.... (baby was small, poorly conformed and unattractive, in general).

basicallly mmaurer is right... in the end the demand will be greater for horses that have been through warmblood inspections. we have taken one to GOV and she was approved (despite her short stature - inspector's comment) on the basis of her movement and the quality of her foal.

we will be taking another mare next spring. fortunatley she is taller and I think will pass inspection with no problems.

SportArab

[SAS]

I do think that there is increased demand for these crosses and I too fear that we end up with a lot of over-priced junk. My current anglo is my 3rd half arabian sporthorse. And believe me, every time one sells, I dread the thought of going out to find another. I have watched tape after tape of very poor quality horses, have driven and flown all over the place looking at warmblood and thoroughbred crosses only to be disappointed over and over again.

And the worst part is that because the demand is high now, everyone who has an anglo-arab or arab/warmblood cross thinks it is worth a fortune. I admit that I paid much more than I should of for my gelding (with all of his issues) due to his size. As I say on his bad days, I paid by the inch!!!

My two previous horses - and hopefully this one -were able to compete successfully on the arab circuit through Nationals and on the open circuit in the lower hunter divisions and the adult eqs. I too am afraid that we hurt the cross even more by having poorly bred, poor quality horses out there trying to compete on the open circuits.

Just my 2 cents. I, however, am a glutton for punishment and there is something about these arab crosses that I love. So, I will continue to own an anglo or arab/warmblood cross that I can show in both worlds.

[Little Indian]

I have a little (14.1 7/8) Arab/Andalusian cross so that'd be considered an Arab/WB cross right? /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif He has as large of stride as my Appendix QH (who raced and won...) He moves beautifully and he's cleared 5' a couple of times... (he's been known to jump out of the turn-out) I've never done the Arab shows with him, but stick the the A/B shows and does the Pony Jumpers (or Puddle Jumpers) and Large Schooling Pony Hunters (or the Low Children-Adult Hunters) and the Andalusian Breed Shows (he shows in Halter for that, Hunter US, Dressage Suit., and Best Movement.)
His sire is the Andalusian stallion Banbury Errol (owned by JDon Farms) and his dam is the Arabian (grandaughter of *Bask and *Prince Zaim) and I know you guys LOOOOVE pictures so....have fun /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Here are some foal pictures of him
http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Dec/200212145021912078548423.jpg
http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Dec/200212144382966392056866.jpg
http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Dec/200212145899815016760076.jpg
and now
http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Dec/200212146141038607668102.jpg
http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Dec/200212146492076562399316.jpg
http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Dec/200212142095553405152472.jpg
http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Dec/200212145580839493341749.jpg
http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Dec/200212144311390107000972.jpg
http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Dec/200212147212157597550658.jpg
http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Dec/200212142299934878484613.jpg
http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Dec/200212147211768265149881.jpg

[luckyduck]

I like, I like....

What a pretty boy!

[Sportpony]

I rode a number of Andalusian/TB crosses and Andalusian/Arab crosses when I lived in Spain. One of my friends, who was in her teens at the time, had a wonderful Arab/Andalusian gelding ... she did her BHSAI in England after she graduated high school, returned to Spain and competed him at International levels in jumping in Europe after that. Very successful crosses.

As far as seeing a lot of "unfortunate" crosses ... you are going to see poor quality being produced anytime you have a developing market, but buyers will, in fact, get educated.

One thing that is actually useful for the warmblood/sporthorse/Arab cross market is that the purebred Arab market isn't exceptionally good now except in a few areas ... with a few bloodlines.

Arab breeders are looking for new markets ... and you can find breeders with good Arab mares who are willing to lease mares that will produce good sporthorse types and are much more reasonable, pricewise, than a comparable warmblood mare.

Kaleidoscope Farm
http://www.stallionstation.com/kaleidoscopefarm
Colored sporthorses & sportponies for non-traditional riders

[mmaurer]

I think it will be interesting to see what crosses develop..I have three arab mares in foal for next year, one is Egyptian related, one is a Swedish import and one is crabbet..I am looking forward to see what the foals look like.

darn, April and may seem SOOO far away now /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Everyone talks about the warmblood/polish crosses, but I think as this market grows and more breeders outcross their mares, we might see some interesting foals, from more than just the standard lines.

Leslie Maurer
Jump The Moon Sporthorses
Home of Echo Shea (arab sporthorse) and Outrageous Fortune(overo Pinto RPSI)

[SportArab]

folks talk about the polish cross because the polish horses generally tend to be taller and have better movement than some other lines. Some arab lines tend to be straight in the pelvis and/or the femur.


I expect some of the best arab sport horses might be a mix of lines bred by breeders who have been trying to produce a sporthorse type all along.

SportArab

[equescool]

I am a big fan of the Polish arab, and of the Polish/Crabbet cross in the purebreds. I am currently waiting on three foals by Lasodo who seems to have great hybrid vigor as he is a blend. He sires so consistently that I have no doubt of what I will get...and it will be very nice. He has a daughter and a son out of an *Obelisk mare. The son dropped the jaw of the in-hand/breed judge at the Arab show. I used him on a thoroughbred mare who has consistently produced very nice foals no matter what she is bred to (including a Freisian), on a purebred El Shaklan dtr (this is Spanish/Egyptian blood), and on a half arab/ 1/4 tbred mare. I am really looking forward to 2003~!!!

[flshgordon]

I just wanted to bump this discussion up to see if anyone else had pics of their arab sporthorses,arab-WB crosses or anglo arabs to show. There are some really nice horses in this bunch so far and being a (not so closet) arabian lover I wanted to see if there were a lot more out there!

[Ghazzu]

I'll take the liberty of posting a photo of my friend Karen and her Arab/ASB gelding,Oliver.

this is a few years old, and was taken when he was just starting dressage competition. The test is being ridden in a ring that more closely resembled a rice paddy than a dressage arena.

Unashamed member of the Arab clique...just settin' on the Group W bench.

[Ghazzu]

And if you promise not to snicker, here is one of my late, saintly gelding Araba Tigris and me.

Unashamed member of the Arab clique...just settin' on the Group W bench.

[Future Breeder]

Little Indian-

What a BEAUTIFUL boy! Wow.. he's amazing. Thinking of selling him, by chance? *wink, wink*

[HaltAtX]

I am not sure if this question has been brought up yet...

But, IF you ARE going to pursue the arab sporthorse/Wb market.

What *style* arabian should you "typically" be looking at? and onces that sell:

Crabbet
Blunt
Russian
Polish
eqyptian.

(there is a whole bunch more but I can't think of them all, but you guys knows the gist of the question http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

A Sport Horse breeder Of Color.

[spirit]

I have heard that a lot of these lines are mixed up anyways. There are arabs out there with a bit of everything.

Myself, I would buy an arab that was elegant, but larger in size - but that's coming from a WB person! Don't know which "style" of arab fits that bill though.

[Ghazzu]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CallMyBluffFarms:
I am not sure if this question has been brought up yet...

But, IF you ARE going to pursue the arab sporthorse/Wb market.

What *style* arabian should you "typically" be looking at? and onces that sell:

Crabbet
Blunt
Russian
Polish
eqyptian.

(there is a whole bunch more but I can't think of them all, but you guys knows the gist of the question http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

A Sport Horse breeder Of Color.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



Well, depeding on how you look at the above categories, there is considerable overlap--for instance, the Blunts were the founders of Crabbet Stud, so the early Blunt horses are most assuredly Crabbet. Their daughter, Lady Wentowrth, brought in Skowronek, whom some folks call Polish (but who was more correctly "Ukrainian", FWTW). The Russians got a lot of their stock from Poland, as well as getting the horse Aswan as a gift from the Egyptians, and the Blunts got a lot of their stock from Egypt.


Essentially, when looking for a sporthorse type Arab, I would look to the "preservation" breeders, those who have been empahasizing the Bedouin type Arab, vs. those who jumped on the halter horse "living art" bandwagon during the tax shelter days. (Although a significant number of those people are now trying to pitch their horses to the sporthorse market, as they have seen that any money coming into the breed these days is likely to be from that direction.)

The Polish government's breeding program has produced a lot of nice athletic horses, as they were tested on the track before going to the breeding shed--they didn't necessarily have to be fast, but they had to stay sound and be sane enough to train.


Crabbet breeding has historically been well represented in the pedigrees of distance horses.

The older bloodlines in the American studbook tend to produce correct, typy, athletic, but not extreme toa fault individuals. In fact, many of the stallions du jour made their reputations on the progeny sired by breeding to mares which were largely older American breeding, but as has been said, "In America, horses have no dams," and the credit was more often than not given solely to the heavily promoted sires.

Personally, I'm sold on the Davenport lines, which are Syrian in origin, as were some of the original Blunt horses.

Unashamed member of the Arab clique...just settin' on the Group W bench.

[Sporthorse South]

I've been crossing my Han-Arab mare with warmblood stallions since 1999 and registering the foals as Oldenburgs with GOV. All three of these foals have been really nice (by 2 different stallions) and I would love to keep breeding her but we are getting more into stallions now and don't have much room for mares and foals anymore. It's been a bit tough selling the foals because most buyers looking for a dressage prospect won't consider anything with Arab in it, even after I tell them about the profound influence on warmbloods in Germany of Inschallah AA, Matcho AA, etc. I like to tell myself that these folks are probably afraid of intelligent horses, so I guess they are better off buying something with no Arab blood in it. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I've decided to also sell the mare so she is going back into work next week, and I'd also like to know the best places to advertise her.

I'll try to attach a photo her if I can figure out how. This was taken a few years ago, before she became a broodmare.

[Priya]

Okay, so I'm looking for a broodmare and came across this mare. She is 15.3hh has Furioso II bloodlines on top and *Ghalion on her dam side. She is Oldenburg branded and a Premium mare with Old NA/ISR.

Does anyone know of that bloodline(I'm oblivious) for arabs? Also what type of crosses are you seeing with these arab/warmblood mares used on warmblood stallions? or thoroughbred stallions?

I will try to attach a pic of her...I think she is just loffly http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Gold

Coloured Horses....Oh My!
http://www.trinitybreeders.on.ca

[Arabbreeder]

[I do find it interesting that there is so much resistance in some circles with the Arab crosses. I did own several Arabs a number of years ago and with just a couple of exceptions, found them to be very sensible and trainable.

I also find it interesting that many of the pony buyers will not look at something with Arab breeding (if they know it's there) but there have been a surprising number of the Arab crosses that have score very high at the AWR sportpony inspections.

Kaleidoscope Farm
http://www.stallionstation.com/kaleidoscopefarm
Colored sporthorses & sportponies for non-traditional riders[/QUOTE]

Sportpony, I think part of the problem is the breeders themselves, if they do not admit to the Arabian heritage oftentimes that influence is not recognized and given it's due. More and more people are experiencing the talent and trainability for themselves and separating the fact from fiction where Arabian mind-set is concerned and providing accurate records and recognition of what breeds contribute to the successful offspring is needed to open the market to Arabians even further.

Having been a breeder of purebred Arabians for nearly a decade now the majority of Arabians are very trainable, fast-learning, smart, NON-spooky horses. Of course there are spooky Arabians, but these types of personalities are not going to do as well and should not be utilized. The more trainable, smart, confident Arabian will be the ideal for this type of cross and it is very prevalent despite the myths to the contrary.

I have many inquiries from Arabian people wishing to do more with their Arabians than what traditional breed showing has allowed them. The creation of the new Sporthorse classes is further opening the market to both traditional Arabian buyers and new buyers seeking to improve on their current programs.

I think as more Arabians and Arab crosses are ulitilized in sporthorse breeding programs and recognition is given to the Arabian for its contribution to these talented athletes the more the myths surrounding Arabians will be dispelled.

www.blackvistaarabians.com (http://www.blackvistaarabians.com)

[Arabbreeder]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by monami:
Most of the movement biased is not usually with the Arabs gaits, but with problem in engaging them from behind during collected work . Many Arab breeders breed very long flat backed horses that are desirable in Halter classes. But when these horses move from to halter ring to performance they really are not physically designed to do the job. They also usually have a tendency to jump flat backed. That said I have seen some awesome moving Arabs!! In fact my neighbor has a 4th level (schooling PSG) purebred gelding that is to die for. He moves like warmblood, but is only 14.3hh. When I rode him I was amazed at how "big" he felt and kinda forgot how little he was until I dismounted!!

Arab blood is in every breed, and I think all of the warmblood registries accept pure bred Arabs in their studbooks because they really do have so many wonderful traits and can really improve heavier horses, so I imagine that an Arab / RID cross would be just fabulous.

IMO I would look at the hose the same way as you would look at any other horse because they all have some arab in them. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"The poster formerly known as JSTALLINGS."
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Arabian is, (as are most other breeds today), becoming very specialized for certain disciplines. The current Arabian "Halter" horse is not desireable as a sporthorse, IMO because they are simply too different and too far removed from the traditionally versatile, athletic and 'correct' Arabian. You are correct, that tabletop level back and croup are not ideal for a sporthorse prospect, any more than some of the huge trotting, winging out movement and downhill build that seems to be popular in the upper level breed shows.

In crossing onto the Arabian in sporthorse programs a breeder must look to the traditional, classic type of Arabian that is clean and correct in conformation, sound and sane in mind and prepotent in passing along these traits.

www.blackvistaarabians.com (http://www.blackvistaarabians.com)

[Arabbreeder]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BravAddict:
I don't go for that. Although I don't even own a horse, I am an avid Arab-lover, and I am very very very very (I'm not kidding) partial to *Raffles-bred horses.
During the 80's is when "table-top croups" started becoming really fashionable, but if you poke around the Old American and Crabbet people, you find their horses are substantial, beautiful movers, with correct gaits and useful hind ends. There was a thread on the White Horse forums about Arab rear ends, and most people still have that one fantastic classically-bred old mare with a nice backside.
I'm not sure if this is allowed; if not, please feel free to take them off. I'm not trying to promote the stallions, I wasn't paid, and I don't own them, I'm merely offering them as examples.
http://www.arabsporthorse.com/
http://www.angelfire.com/bc3/fairviewstud/ (If I get the horsie I want, it's coming from here http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)
http://www.arabiandreamfarm.com/Crabbet_Arabian_Stallion_Magic_Domino.htm
http://www3.telus.net/carterbk/cruiser.htm
http://www.arab-sporthorses.com/
http://www.kossack.com/gomel2.htm
(This is in German, and the English version isn't really all there yet last I checked, but it's pretty neat, and they have some lovely horsies there).

I'm willing to claim that most of the "problems" with Arabian horses are a result of the last 50 years of breeding...as well as people not trying. They're just different. They think and look differently from other horses, that's all. Bore/overwork/annoy them and they will *make* their own fun. It seems to be not so big a "problem" in other countries. A lot of Australian horses still have a lot of Crabbet in them and tend to be pretty nice. I'm so biased http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I have lots of other opinions, but I'll stuff them in my soap box for another day.

I'm a Schoolie and I'm Proud.
I miss Bravado.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OOOPS I screwed up and plugged my boy and didn't mean to! I am just so partial to these types of Arabians and in spreading the word about them! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I like the A.R.A.B.S. website it has a ton of useful information. These traditional, more "classic" types of Arabians are definately making a comeback, especially as some breeders are slowly beginning to realize their past mistakes with their downhill too-level out-of-balance offspring. With the new breed show Sporthorse in-hand classes another avenue for displaying the traditional, athletic Arabian has been provided and should further strengthen these programs.

www.blackvistaarabians.com (http://www.blackvistaarabians.com)

[Future Breeder]

To add onto the "which string" part of the thread-- I own an Egyptian Arabian gelding who is 15.1, over the average height already at the age of three-- he'll still grow a bit more. He's the first type of Arabian I've seen, so I couldn't really tell you if it's my favorite.. at the time I was looking for horses, an Arab was NOT on my mind-- you always here stories about being discriminated against in shows (Hunter) with them.. but when I met him, I knew there wouldn't be a way that I could go home without him.

[Sporthorse South]

Gosh, a 15.1h Egyptian Arabian! Aren't those lines usually pretty small?

My Han-Arab mare that I posted about earlier is 15.2h. Her Hanoverian sire is just under 16.1, and her mostly Crabbet (some Polish) dam was only 14.3. My mare's first filly (by a 17h warmblood stallion) will probably finish about 16.1, but her second filly (by the same stallion) is going to finish somewhere around 16.3 - 17h! Her 3rd foal, a colt by a 16.2h warmblood stallion, will probably be around 16.2.

Is anyone else crossing their WB/Arabian crosses back to warmblood stallions? What sizes are the foals maturing to?

[LCR]

We have had very good success breeding the Anglo-Shagya...We have 2 very good TB lines to Bold Ruler that we have crossed with Shagya stallions and the result is very exciting. We are also breeding to TK and DWB mares. The offspring from these crosses are well framed individuals with good minds, straight legs, excellent gaits and lots of natural talent for the sporthorse activities. The Shagya is a horse with an arabian foundation which was formed in the Austro-Hungarian Empire for the Cavalry and the aristrocracy. Because of judicious linebreeding and careful culling of 200 years, they are a very prepotent genetic pool. They do not fall into the Russian, Crabbet, Polish, Egyptian category of the Arabian horse but have sustained a
type, standard and impecable stud books which in 1986 WAHO declared a breed of their own. Their name has kept them in obscurity but you will find them in all of the major WB pedigrees today....The famous and still highly respected Ramzes by Rittersporn TB was out of a Shagya mare named Jordi. Both Rittersporn and Jordi lived at the stud farm named Radautz and that is where Ramzes was born. I recently read an article that said, 34% of the top performing horses in the world today have Ramzes in the pedigree...the next closest was about 4%....The Shagya in the pedigrees are noted with Or Ar, or ShA, not ox like a purbred arab is noted. If you would like to know more about the Shagya breed you can visit our web site @www.shagya-arabian.com or post to me and I will answer you personally.

www.shagya-arabian.com (http://www.shagya-arabian.com)

[SportArab]

With regard to long backs.. this is something new to Arabians and is only cropping up in the halter arena. The Arabian has been used, historically, as an improver on back length.

Also, angle of croup is completely unimportant. It is the angle of the pelvis that counts.

Here's a photo of our stallion. Note, he has a short back and good pelvic angle even though he has a relatively level croup. He is close to 15.2h.

As for the size in warmblood,arab crosses, it really depends on the bloodlines of both individuals. We have a half arab half oldenburg registered with GOV out of a 14.3 h Arabian mare and by Budweiser. This gelding is about 15.3 at 19 months. I expect he's going to be quite large as he still looks very immature (ie. long legs, small baby body).

Fiery Run Farm

[ladyfarrier]

Sporthorse South: Yes, I'm on the second generation of crossing my Arab/Trakehner broodmares back onto warmblood stallions.

The next generation definitely has size.One by
Martini had above average size as a youngster, and I expect a coming 2 year old by Rubenz to finish at l6.2, if you believe those string tests. The Arab/Trakehner mares are l5.l and l5.3 (out of l5.0 Arab mare by l6.l Trak stallion).

You lose the size for a generation, yes, but you do get it back, and fairly quickly, and consistently I've found. It's the first generation crosses that are all over the map.

[LCR]

I have been reading the threads again concerning conformation of the arabian horse to their ability for collection. Someone said that their ability has been curtailed by the the allowance of flat backs to become prominent in the last 50 years. I would say she is correct however I did not see that breeding fault become prominent until the 70's...prior to that the arabians were well formed had nice sloping croups and were very athletic. When saddle seat became the style of the day the arabs lost their athletic ability...so much for that...The Shagya and the crosses however have never been subject to that style of breeding...they remain consistant to sporthorse conformation and are not granted breeding approval if they vary to far away from the ideal. I am adding a picture of one of our young anglo-shagya mares. She is coming 3 years old and her name is I've A Secret.

www.shagya-arabian.com (http://www.shagya-arabian.com)

[Ladybug Hill]

I have to share too!

I have a Welsh/Arab filly coming 2 years old this feb. She was sort of a fluke breeding for me. The Arabian mare (high crabbet and very high CMK) was a beautiful homozygous black mare that would have nothing to do with breeding (live cover) despite much help from the vet. About two years later the mare suddenly became receptive, so not wanting to lose my chance I bred her to my Welsh pony stallion.

Now this filly is one the favorites that I have ever bred. She is going to be a beautiful hunter pony. She has fantastic movement and balance. I put her to a jump on the lunge line one day just to see if she would do it. She had the most amazing form!

One day I was showing another pony to a buyer, and they commented that they wanted this filly instead! She is not for sale so she is still here. She loves people and is not spooky at all. Unfortunately, I have sold the dam and the sire, so there will be no more like her!

Photo is at 14 months.

http://ladybughillfarm.vaix.net/whinny/whinny05-02sm.jpg


Chris

Ladybug Hill--Hunters and Ponies
Specializing in Palomino TBs

Ladybug Hill--ladybughillfarm.vaix.net (http://ladybughilfarm.vaix.net)

[crystalacresponies]

I JUST DONT GET IT!!!

Why in the world are pony hunter people predjudice against Arabs? Some of THE most very famous pony hunters of all time were half arab! The Al Marah Lord Elope breeding that Taylor Made ponies used produced most of the Fanciest, Best Moving & Best Jumping pony hunters of the 80s!! I think the quality of ponies in the "A" division has declined since the "arab" left the divisions. I intend to put it back in! My old pony hunter(1/2 arab) has 3 offspring that are currently WINNING in the "A" pony hunters right now. Foxen(welsh/Arab/TB) finished 2002 reserve champ medium pony in zone 4. Snow White(Arab/Welsh) was champion green medium at pony finals. Arab doesn't hurt these 2. Each wins the hacks and the models, as well as the jumps! The extra special "typiness" to their look comes from the arab breeding. If no one else wants to capitalize on this, I certainly will continue to. And...neither of these ponies had any problem being sold as youngsters. If they are fancy, the people will buy them! I use an Arab mare right now & plan to get another.

"Crystal Acres"
Home of Major Fox, Tribute In Light, All Dressed Up, and Foxen the Pony Princess!
www.underthepinesfarm.com (http://www.underthepinesfarm.com)

[wendy]

it's just prejudice. All those badly bred halter-arabs in the 70's and 80's gave the breed a bad name.
When I was horse-shopping, for an arab, I was dragging my dressage instructor around to look at the horses. She was very negative about arabs. Upon questioning she had to admit she had no personal experience with them. Anyway one day at a breeder she happened to see a young hanoverian/arab cross. Her jaw literally dropped as she watched him move. She bought him on the spot. She broke him and apparently he is doing amazingly well in dressage.

My own horse is a polish arab. In his eventing trim (pulled mane) a lot people think he is a connemara or something rather than an arab. I've had people come up to me, compliment me on his jumping ability, and then proceed to tell me that "everyone knows arabs can't jump. They dangle their knees".

[Ladybug Hill]

Hey CrystalAcres,

Wish I had been part of this board at the time that I was trying to find the "right" home for the black arab mare that was the dam of the filly (that I posted earlier). She was a dream for producing hunter types! She might have fit your program.

She did get a good home though.

http://ladybughillfarm.vaix.net/raffona/raffonal.jpg

.

Chris

Ladybug Hill--Hunters and Ponies
Specializing in Palomino TBs

Ladybug Hill--ladybughillfarm.vaix.net (http://ladybughilfarm.vaix.net)

[crystalacresponies]

OMG
I soooo would have wanted her ladybug!!!!

"Crystal Acres"
Home of Major Fox, Tribute In Light, All Dressed Up, and Foxen the Pony Princess!
www.underthepinesfarm.com (http://www.underthepinesfarm.com)

[crystalacresponies]

Example of the arab/welsh cross

"Crystal Acres"
Home of Major Fox, Tribute In Light, All Dressed Up, and Foxen the Pony Princess!
www.underthepinesfarm.com (http://www.underthepinesfarm.com)

[crystalacresponies]

Example of

The Arab/Welsh/TB Cross

This is the cross I like best for pony hunters!

"Crystal Acres"
Home of Major Fox, Tribute In Light, All Dressed Up, and Foxen the Pony Princess!
www.underthepinesfarm.com (http://www.underthepinesfarm.com)

[Ladybug Hill]

Hey CrystalAcres,

Did the McCormac pony have crabbet bloodlines? or did the roaning/high white come from the Welsh side?

Do you stand a stallion?

Do you use the Welara registry? When I registered my Welsh stallion as a foundation stallion for the Welara registry they put him on the front cover of the next edition of their journal! (it is usually a paid advertisement on the front cover!) There are a lot of advertising opportunities in their journal and online for the Welsh/Arab cross.

Your ponies are gorgeous!

Chris



Ladybug Hill--Hunters and Ponies
Specializing in Palomino TBs

ladybughillfarm.vaix.net (http://ladybughilfarm.vaix.net)

[Pony1]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crystalacresponies:
I JUST DONT GET IT!!!

Why in the world are pony hunter people predjudice against Arabs? Some of THE most very famous pony hunters of all time were half arab! The Al Marah Lord Elope breeding that Taylor Made ponies used produced most of the Fanciest, Best Moving & Best Jumping pony hunters of the 80s!! I think the quality of ponies in the "A" division has declined since the "arab" left the divisions. I intend to put it back in! ... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


oooohhhhhhhhh Chrystal Acres great minds think alike!!! I think you are right on track, and I have been search for an Arab mare to add to my little band of broodmares too! - found the perfect one, but shes in Wash State by the Canadian border http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif but have some leads on some really nice sport arab types I think they will cross very very well with my little stallion - my little mare that was Champion Broodmare MHSA, VHSA and VPBA this year is a TB/ArabXWelsh and I think she is gorgeous, so did the judges apparently http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I mean she has looks, movement and a mind to die for ... whats not to like about that?? so I am going to try the Arab to Caspian cross and see just how prejudiced people will be about a foal thats a beautiful mover, great conformation and wonderful temperament and mind.

Quality is never achieved by accident - but rather by Design!
Standing the imported Caspian pony stallion Cheleken Zealandia aka "BAXTER"
www.americanridingpony.com (http://www.americanridingpony.com)

[crystalacresponies]

Ladybug-

I have Nooo idea where the roaning came from. Mom, as you see in the photo, wass gray. Dad, TB stallion Cormac's Run, is Chestnut. Mikey was bred using AI...so we always just guessed it got shaken up a bit in transit!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Really, he was borderline paint...but didnt have an ounce of it in him. Lord Elope (grandsire) was chestnut or bay(?). Beats me how he got those colors. Thanks for the compliment on my ponies. Unfortunately Crystal & her son have both passed on now. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif If you want to see Her other baby, Snow White was in a sale ad in last weeks COTH. I didn't breed that one though. Foxen is her granddaughter

"Crystal Acres"
Home of Major Fox, Tribute In Light, All Dressed Up, and Foxen the Pony Princess!
www.underthepinesfarm.com (http://www.underthepinesfarm.com)

[LPassmore]

The gal that got me into breeding is VERY interested in Arab/Warmblood crosses. She's actually got several coming two year olds listed on her website:

www.magicarpetshowhorses.com (http://www.magicarpetshowhorses.com)

I wish she had some pictures of them as they're getting older.

Her stallion, Glacier Bay, is sweepstakes nominated for Arabs. He's a Dutch Warmblood, who is dual registered as an American Warmblood. His website is www.arkenfield.com (http://www.arkenfield.com) (or www.arkenfieldfarm.com (http://www.arkenfieldfarm.com)) I can't ever remember exactly.

I've got a half-TB cross from him, and I absolutely adore her. I liked the half-arab's also -- but my trainer is VERY anti arab. I think I might surprise him someday and bring one home anyway.

We've got an anglo-arab in our barn who is going to be a LOVELY jumper. He's barely 5 and extremely athletic.

My only complaint with the half arab sporthorses is the size of them. A lot of times they're not going to hit 16 hands. And I'm a big girl so that's my personal minimum.

[SportArab]

Here's a photo of our yearling by Budweiser off to play with the dog.

[SportArab]

Ah.. well, for some reason, photo not loading

[Ladybug Hill]

Crystal Acres,

Your ponies are just fabuluous!

If the Arabian line that was used was a Crabbet line, that is likely where the white comes from. The Crabbets are known for their extensive white (Sabino). Of course the grey of the dam might hide this. Also dark horses often hide it also. The chestnut seems to express this coloration the most. Below are links to 2 photos of PUREBRED Arabians with extreme sabino expression. Check it out!


Very extreme sabino overo purebred arabian (NOT grey) (http://www.sabinoarabians.com/sabino_pics/snowy_l_tn.jpg)

Another purebred colt (http://www.sabinoarabians.com/sabino_pics/mirage1_r.jpg)



And another purebred Arabian! (http://www.geocities.com/sabinoarabianhome/waout3.jpg)

Amazing!

Chris

Ladybug Hill--Hunters and Ponies
Specializing in Palomino TBs

ladybughillfarm.vaix.net (http://ladybughilfarm.vaix.net)

[Future Breeder]

I posted earlier on my "15.1 Egyptian gelding", and was able to snatch a picture of him from his old owner.. it's a little old, he's grown and filled out alot more, and his neck is a TAD bit longer, but you get the general idea.

[Future Breeder]

And one more..

[Ladybug Hill]

What a pretty boy!

Chris

Ladybug Hill--Hunters and Ponies
Specializing in Palomino TBs

ladybughillfarm.vaix.net (http://ladybughilfarm.vaix.net)

[crystalacresponies]

Ladybug-
Thanks for the compliments & the education. I always wondered where that color came from. All of Crystal's other "kids" were grays. When I bred him I was like 20, and completely clueless. Just lucky enough to have a great mare. Never researched the breeding.

Pony 1-
Anytime you want to give me that mare of yours!! I braided her butt just once and loved her! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Another thing I want besides an arab is one with Spin Off Breeding. Did you know Major Fox was half arab?? Never would know, would you?? The arab breeding makes them fancier and better movers!

"Crystal Acres"
Home of Major Fox, Tribute In Light, All Dressed Up, and Foxen the Pony Princess!
www.underthepinesfarm.com (http://www.underthepinesfarm.com)

[Pony1]

Get the heck out of Dodge!!! Major Fox is 1/2 arab??? WOW I am thrilled - I am meeting such opposition to introducing an Arab mare into the broodmare band as most of the pony trainers WILL NOT even bring a client to see your youngster if it has Arab in it - I think there is more Arab than we know and people just lie about it http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

You jogged my blonde brain with the mention of Tailor Made ponies - long time ago - are you sure they used Arabs in their breeding program? and if so, they were very well respected - what has happened to sour the masses to the addition of Arab blood?

As a general statement, I really like the front ends on horses or ponies that have Arab influence - pretty heads, clean throat latches, long necks, tied in high on a laid back shoulder - I see this more as an Arab influence than in any other breed - now admittedly you need a nice rear end to compliment that beautiful front - but you can find that in certain TB, Welsh, QH types - No wonder breeders are sado-masochistic, we have an impossible check list don't we? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

OK you have stumped me with Spin Off - tell me more Oh Pony Guru

Quality is never achieved by accident - but rather by Design!
Standing the imported Caspian pony stallion Cheleken Zealandia aka "BAXTER"
www.americanridingpony.com (http://www.americanridingpony.com)

[crystalacresponies]

Taylor Made Ponies were THE BIG ONES at Devon every year in the 80s & early 90s. I believe Richard Taylor is a cousin(?). Something like that. They stood Al Marah Lord Elope in the 70s & 80s, I guess it was. It is getting hard to find his bloodlines now because they're all getting old. There(IMO) has not been a pony breeder, before or since, more respected than Mrs. Taylor. There were sooo many Lord Elope offspring showing in the 80s. I know this because I was doing the pony hunters at the time. In 1986 at Devon, when Crystal was reserve in the medium pony division, Mrs. Taylor came up to our rider & said, "I bred that pony". Her AHSA papers had said "unknown"
so I was thrilled to find out about her. Lord Elope was an extremely popular pony hunter sire at the time. Taylor Made ponies was from Virginia. In fact, I heard a rumor she might be getting back into it.
Wellen uses a Lord Elope mare as well. All of their Wellen Gold ponies are from Good As Gold. Have always wondered if this is Clear As Crystal's sister(seems likely, by the name, she is).
I could bore you with the many pony hunter ponies who have him as a sire...Lucky for you, I wont.
Should you find a mare of that breeding, go grab her for me!! I've contacted Al Marah arabians, but they told me he was sold very young and dont have any similar bloodlines currently. He had a son standing in Va at one time called, The Devine Comedy. I don't know what became of him.

Pony 1- Isn't your pony a Longacre Pony?!?!? By Spinoff, I'm referring to Longacre Spinoff. I just Love him!!!! Also a Va. resident. I would have bred to him, but he doesn't do AI. His foals are SPECTACULAR Movers. I thought your mare was by him?? I was jealous

"Crystal Acres"
Home of Major Fox, Tribute In Light, All Dressed Up, and Foxen the Pony Princess!
www.underthepinesfarm.com (http://www.underthepinesfarm.com)

[Pony1]

crystalacresponies -

Grace, aka Longacre Wedding Ring, to my eye looks very very much like Longacre Spinoff, but she is actually by Little Cloud (TB/Arab) and out of Longacre Silver Slippers by Farnley Spyglass. The DePauls have gorgeous ponies, obviously the arab blood in their breeding program has not hurt them one bit - I think I recently read that Longacre Lavendar is/was top pony jumper in the Nation?

It would be interesting to see if The Devine Comedy is still around, I could have "you know who" ask around to some of his buddies - "he" might even know, sometimes hes like the amazing Kreskin.

I do remember the Taylor Made Ponies they were showing when I was doing the hunters - very interesting, I think I will continue to pursue the "right" arab mare or 1/2 arab mare for adding to Baxters band-o-women, It may end up being a folly but there have to be worse things than breeding for beauty and brains in the same package right?

Quality is never achieved by accident - but rather by Design!
Standing the imported Caspian pony stallion Cheleken Zealandia aka "BAXTER"
www.americanridingpony.com (http://www.americanridingpony.com)