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ideagirl13
May. 11, 2012, 07:37 AM
Hello,

I'm new to the forum (and horse ownership:winkgrin:), I am going to lease my 7yo KWPN mare who is competing first level, schooling second level. I have someone in mind who wants to lease her and I am trying to determine a fair lease price/terms. My board costs per month will be in the $700 area. I would also like to require that the lessee take at least 2 lessons a month from a certified dressage instructor. Anyone have any guidance on what I should be charging and the terms?

Thanks in advance!

AzuWish
May. 11, 2012, 08:05 AM
Is it a full or partial lease?

For a first level horse, where you are requiring her to be boarded at a fairly expensive facility with two lessons per month, I'd go with a "free" full time lease (board, farrier, vet, chiro, training). She's still in training and doesn't sound like a made horse at 7, so usually only higher level schoolmasters/competitive horses get an added boon onto the lease situation.

If this is a partial (2-3 days a week), I would charge $500-600, given you board cost (I do more than half the board for partials for non-school master type horses).

It's important to consider if the mare is still learning and who will be learning from whom. I doubt the mare is at the top of her game schooling 2nd at 7. She's still learning and still young (assumption). It also depends on her test scores at first. If she's blowing away the competition at rated shows and consistently the top scoring horse, then yeah, charge in addition to having them pick up her expenses.

I think you should continue paying the insurance, though. You're maintaining ownership of her, after all.

It also helps to talk to the potential lessee and see what they have in mind (they might surprise you with better terms than you expected!).

'course with all that said, it may depend on your market. They were GIVING away 2nd level school masters in my area just a year ago, but now you can't find them (or find them under the age of 20). That means if you have a second level school master, you've got the better end of supply/demand right now. Finding a well trained horse right now for a steal price is impossible. But there is a glut of green horse "prospects" with lower level or no training -- at giveaway prices (seeing some of those green fancy WBs offered at TB/QH prices).

Petstorejunkie
May. 11, 2012, 08:10 AM
will it be a full or partial lease?
a full lease means they have right to ride 7/7 days a week
partial lease means they have right to ride 3-4/7 days a week

AllWeatherGal
May. 11, 2012, 11:36 AM
I'm in central Florida and have been "part leasing" a young horse at a training barn for two months now. He's a branded Danish Warmblood who showed 2nd level successfully (high 70s) last year and is schooling changes now.

The lease includes two lessons a week. He also is schooled by the trainer 1 day a week. I may ride additional days with no restriction other than making sure he's clean and available for buyers.

I pay half his combined board and lease fees. The owner pays for shoes and vet, as necessary. For this horse I feel I am getting excellent value.

Mardi
May. 11, 2012, 11:54 AM
Owner pays for shoeing and vet. That's non-negotiable.

flyracing
May. 11, 2012, 12:29 PM
Owner pays for shoeing and vet. That's non-negotiable.

Why? When I've leased out my show horse, I wrote the vet and farrier (and board) checks to insure they are paid on time, but the rider was responsible for covering the specified costs we agreed on and they wrote me a check. Everything was prearranged; even the vet quote for hock injections was included. I still had 100% control over decisions. Technically these costs were the "lease fee" that was paid directly to me, but at the end of the day this fee still didn't cover all of his expenses (which I didn't expect it to).

If you are leasing out a horse to someone and they agree to covering the cost of shoeing and "extra" vet costs, why would you say "no, that's non-negotiable."?? :confused:

alto
May. 11, 2012, 12:48 PM
Hello,

I am trying to determine a fair lease price/terms. My board costs per month will be in the $700 area. I would also like to require that the lessee take at least 2 lessons a month from a certified dressage instructor. Anyone have any guidance on what I should be charging and the terms?

Thanks in advance!

Unless the rider is more advanced than the horse, a weekly lesson even on a partial lease is the norm in my area, so don't be afraid to insist on this if both rider & horse will benefit: you can write a codicil into the lease agreement that terms may be amended in 3 months etc.
Rather than any "certified dressage instructor" have a short list of coaches whose style is going to work for your horse (your current trainer will know).

Have a coffee meeting with the prospective leasee & find out what she's looking for in a lease horse situation, if she can write down her list as "must haves" & "compromises" (& you do the same), there's a much greater chance of the lease working equally well for both of you longterm.

When deciding on a lease price, be realistic, talk to your trainer, have prospective leasee take a lesson with your coach to test that dynamic, etc.

2tempe
May. 11, 2012, 06:09 PM
When I leased my schoolmaster out, it was a free lease, but rider paid ALL "operating" expenses - farrier, shots, worming, dental, etc. She was responsible for any veterinary care outside of major issues. He was older so the deal was that if a major issue arose, I would take him back.

J-Lu
May. 12, 2012, 02:19 AM
What do you mean "certified" dressage instructor? Many quality instructors are not usdf certified, and several "certified" instructors are not people I would take lessons with.

Your mare is learning. If you are considering full lease, I'd consider having the leasee take over the board, shoeing and minimal vet costs (vaccinations, etc). I'd also consider having her take out an insurance policy on your mare. But then you are surrendering control to the leasee, who is now footing the bills. That said, if your leasee is putting actual training on your mare, the "improvement" on your mare must be reflected in the lease agreement.

IMO.

angel
May. 12, 2012, 05:16 AM
The lease agreement is a reflection of your purpose in offering this mare and the tenative lessee's purpose in wanting to lease. Nothing is written in stone. The important thing is a clear discussion with the tentative lessee as to expectations.

I have a very well conformed mare on a partial lease. My purpose is to have something with which to play, and continue to ride. The owner's purpose is to keep the mare ridden as well as get additional training on her. I have the added benefit of being able to keep the mare at my house.

In this arrangement, I do all the daily care, provide a stall with shavings, provide turn-out, provide half of the hay consumption, provide the bran that is fed each feeding, provide the farrier work. I bought the blanket and fly mask. The owner provides the grain and the other half of the hay as well as the vet work, the tooth fairy, the wormer. She bought the fly sheet. She uses the mare for her work several days a month. The mare is not insured. No money changes hands.

I am not suggesting that you do any of these things, but only cite what I do in my arrangement as one example.

AllWeatherGal
May. 12, 2012, 08:18 AM
Why? When I've leased out my show horse, I wrote the vet and farrier (and board) checks to insure they are paid on time, but the rider was responsible for covering the specified costs we agreed on and they wrote me a check. Everything was prearranged; even the vet quote for hock injections was included. I still had 100% control over decisions. Technically these costs were the "lease fee" that was paid directly to me, but at the end of the day this fee still didn't cover all of his expenses (which I didn't expect it to).

If you are leasing out a horse to someone and they agree to covering the cost of shoeing and "extra" vet costs, why would you say "no, that's non-negotiable."?? :confused:

Agree. Many of the lease agreements at my barn specify shoeing as shared.

What is important is that you are clear about what you want from the lease and specify those requirements in the agreement to avoid disappointment and misunderstandings ... including showing responsibilities.

alto
May. 12, 2012, 01:50 PM
Owner pays for shoeing and vet. That's non-negotiable.
protects the owner should a horse out on "free lease" ever get into a "ownership conflict" situation (it happens :no:) - this way you have a clear record of maintenance (with professionals) on your horse.
You also know that horse is receiving vet & foot care as per your preferance; if you are out of state etc, horse is being seen by a professional on a regular basis - this mitigates the chance that your horse will be among those that disappear on free leases, or be "rescued" from severe neglect.

ideagirl13
May. 14, 2012, 10:50 AM
First, thank you guys for all of the information. There is sooo much to learn with buying your first horse and I appreciate any and all help!

I should have specified that it will be a partial lease (3 rides a week) and I guess I was more interested in the quality of the instruction rather than "certified."

My goal is to have someone I trust (which I do with this lessee) help share the responsibility for keeping my mare in shape and advancing her training. She is definitely not a schoolmaster, but she is very smart and willing. Also, she'll be getting month's worth of professional training at the Hasslers for a "tune up."

The lessee's goal is to have a quality horse to treat as her own and to further her dressage training.

Both of us are beginners at dressage having switched over from other disciplines (hunters).

Anyone have any experience boarding at cheshire horse hills in maryland? PM me with your experience if you do!

Thanks!