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View Full Version : Why can't "good" colleges have equestrian degree programs..



ponyperson
Nov. 24, 2001, 05:34 PM
I'm not trying to bash them or any thing, but those current universities with equestrian degree programs, are, for the most part, horse schools.

I mean, if I don't make it professionally, I'm not going to have a whole bunch of people calling me saying "work for us, we're always looking for people who went to virginia intermont (no offense to said school"

So why can't schools like Emory, Wake Forest, Boston College, etc...have equestrian studeies degree programs?

"I feel like I'm in the twilight zone, and everyone else is a pig. I'm the pretty one, but they think I'm ugly because they are pigs and they think pigs are pretty."

ponyperson
Nov. 24, 2001, 05:34 PM
I'm not trying to bash them or any thing, but those current universities with equestrian degree programs, are, for the most part, horse schools.

I mean, if I don't make it professionally, I'm not going to have a whole bunch of people calling me saying "work for us, we're always looking for people who went to virginia intermont (no offense to said school"

So why can't schools like Emory, Wake Forest, Boston College, etc...have equestrian studeies degree programs?

"I feel like I'm in the twilight zone, and everyone else is a pig. I'm the pretty one, but they think I'm ugly because they are pigs and they think pigs are pretty."

In The Gate
Nov. 24, 2001, 05:43 PM
UC Davis has Equine Science...

That's the only one I've found...

So, obviously, you can't limit your schools based on what has an equine science program.

Valerie
~VWiles02@yahoo.com~
Valerie's home page (http://www.geocities.com/vwiles02)

spaz
Nov. 24, 2001, 05:48 PM
St. Andrew's Presbyterian does /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Hey, it was named one of the top 10 life changing colleges...and it's not cold!

http://jrsclique.proboards.com/index.cgi
Junior Clique!

*What if the Hokey-Pokey IS what it's all about?*

KellyS
Nov. 24, 2001, 05:49 PM
Delaware Valley College is a "good" college and is not just a "horse school". The equine science program is just a part of its extensive agricultural program and the college is also known for its extensive business, computer, small animal science, and criminal justice majors to name a few.

While it may not be a Harvard or big State University, it is a lovely private college with a beautiful campus and diverse program. It is also one of the top ten safest college campuses in the US.

Plus, Mel Gibson just finished filming his new movie "Lines" on the college's campus farms!

daytimedrama
Nov. 24, 2001, 05:53 PM
I believe the major at UC Davis is Animal Science, and a lot of schools hav that major.

~Christina~
"I don't patronize bunny rabbits!" -Heathers
*Nothing is foolproof to a talented fool.*

daytimedrama
Nov. 24, 2001, 05:54 PM
http://www.horsecandy.com/links/colleges.htm
here is a good link as well as www.horseschools.com (http://www.horseschools.com)

~Christina~
"I don't patronize bunny rabbits!" -Heathers
*Nothing is foolproof to a talented fool.*

In The Gate
Nov. 24, 2001, 06:09 PM
The najor is Animal Science, but they have a separate equine science program within the animal science major.

Valerie
~VWiles02@yahoo.com~
Valerie's home page (http://www.geocities.com/vwiles02)

hifi
Nov. 24, 2001, 07:33 PM
I went to Lake Erie College and I think that was a very nice college. I got a first rate education and didn't have to stop riding.

If you can't beat 'em, try harder. And God Bless America my home sweet home!

Pat
Nov. 24, 2001, 07:34 PM
If you don't mean to offend anyone, than don't single out a school, please.

If VI isn't good enough for you, then try your luck at UMass at Amherst, or the University of Kentucky. I hope you have the GPA and the SAT score to put where your mouth is.

If I sound snipey, I AM! /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Pat
Virginia Intermont College
Bachelor of Arts, Horsemanship, '93
AND DAMN PROUD OF IT

UNCeventer
Nov. 24, 2001, 07:57 PM
Yeah- I have been there. I looked at St. Andrews, Delaware Valley, Averett College, Centenary College, Umass, UK, and UNC. I was thinking about an equine scinece/studies program. I finally narrowed it down to UMASS, UK, AND UNC. I wanted to bring my horse with me, so therefore the cheapest for me was UNC. I love my school and I ride my horse everyday. I am also on the Equestrian Team- a whole different world for me- but its still fun. I figured that going to UNC for the first 2 years and getting a great gerneral education for cheaper (i am in state) was the best plan for now. Then- if I still wanted equine sci/studies, I coudl transfer. I really liked UMass and Delval's program and barn was really nice too. I have shown at St. andrews with the eq. team- very very nice ppl there. The cool thing is that they have i think 5 eq. teams and evena therapuetic riding program. If you ahve any questions- let me know. I would be happy to answer them. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

spaz
Nov. 24, 2001, 08:18 PM
unceventer, unless I end up getting dragged to University of Florida, I really want to go to St. Andrews. Just curious, but why did you choose not to go there?

And sticking up for poor ponyperson, Pat, he actually is a very good student. His main goal is to get to the best college he can get into (which will probably be a pretty good one too). I'm sure he wasn't trying to put anyone down, just asking what the best education he can get while still being involved in horses is.

http://jrsclique.proboards.com/index.cgi
Junior Clique!

*What if the Hokey-Pokey IS what it's all about?*

Pat
Nov. 24, 2001, 09:13 PM
3.6 GPA as a junior in HS.

Perhaps pony person was just showing his age.

He came off as snotty and obnoxious to me. My feathers would be equally ruffled if someone commented about my BF going to Fordham instead of an Ivy League. Still damn smart, thanks.

I was insulted, thank you. I've undured enough equine program bashing already. Remember little ones, I may have gone to a small school in the south, but I am a GRADUATE, ya'll are still undergrads to me. And I did it without putting my parents in the poor house to boot.

BTW, if you don't already have what it takes, college isn't going to fix that. The theory and lessons are great, but it's determination, talent, patience, and the ability to pull it together with the education that makes the wannabe into a pro. True of farm managers as well as riders.

spaz
Nov. 24, 2001, 10:38 PM
OK I really don't want to get into an argument here, but I think you're taking this the wrong way.

Ponyperson was not bashing equine studies, in fact, he was asking positive questions about them and how he wants to go to one. What he was asking was why the TOP schools don't have equine science degrees. He never said these schools that offer the programs are BAD, he was just asking if the best schools in the country offer them.

And personally, I see his point. If you had a choice, and both schools offered equine programs, would you pick Yale or Cazenovia College? Don't get me wrong, Cazenovia is a great school I'm sure, in fact I've been seriously looking at it, and I'd probably be fixed on it if it wasn't so cold, but the level of education and the prestige of the school would play an important role if you were applying for a big and important job opening. And one wants to get the best education one can get, correct?

And I don't think you should even consider us undergrads yet. We are high-school students, looking forward to our future education.

As ponyperson said, "No offense to said school". Virginia Intermont IS a good, if not great, school. It was just used as an example, not used as the scapegoat.

http://jrsclique.proboards.com/index.cgi
Junior Clique!

*What if the Hokey-Pokey IS what it's all about?*

RumoursFollow
Nov. 24, 2001, 11:02 PM
the decision you have to make is what is important to you. Ponyperson, an Equine Science degree is an equine science degree. If that is REALLY what you want to major in, there is NOTHING wrong with schools like Virginia Intermont, U of Findlay, etc that have huge riding programs. College is hard wherever you go, believe me.

If you really think there is a chance that you wont end up a trainer, go to the college you like the best, be it equestrian or not, and major in business. That'll help you run a barn, and if you dont end up a professional, you can still get a good job.

I'm a junior at Clemson. Its a tough school. We dont have any Equine majors (as far as I know). I chose to come here because I decided it was more important to me to go to a school that had my major than to go somewhere that had a riding program. I turned down a full scholarship to St. Andrews. (which, btw, Spaz00, is a great school- the campus is SO pretty) That was just my choice though.

But like I said theres nothing wrong with schools like VI, and every person I've ever met says a diploma is a diploma... once you're working in your field and if you can do the job well, no one REALLY cares where you went to school.

------------------------------
Yeehaw- Formerly RF
COTH BB Resident Cowgirl
"She's gone country.. look at them boots, shes gone country.. back to her roots, shes gone country, a new kind of suit.. SHES GONE COUNTRY!! HERE SHE COMES!!! :P

H_J_Mom
Nov. 25, 2001, 06:16 AM
CSU has an Equine Science major, where you can specialize in business or science. Most of the science specialists go on to be vets, or reproductive specialists, or research. The business specialists go on to be trainers, barn managers, or something like that. It is a very tough program.

ponyperson
Nov. 25, 2001, 07:45 AM
I am sorry to come of obnixious or snotty, which I am not, in any sense of the words.

If you really care to know, I am a sophmore, scored a 33 on my ACT, and a 1520 on my SAT, and have a GPA of 4.7.

"I feel like I'm in the twilight zone, and everyone else is a pig. I'm the pretty one, but they think I'm ugly because they are pigs and they think pigs are pretty."

ponyperson
Nov. 25, 2001, 07:48 AM
Yeehaw-those were some excellent points.

However, I don't feel that a diploma is a diploma, etc. I don't think I would necessarily learn more at say, Harvard, than I would at SAPC, or another "horsey" school-but getting a degree from Harvard-I doubt employers would consider it just a diploma.

"I feel like I'm in the twilight zone, and everyone else is a pig. I'm the pretty one, but they think I'm ugly because they are pigs and they think pigs are pretty."

G
Nov. 25, 2001, 07:58 AM
I completely agree with what Yeehaw said about a business degree. By all means, apply to schools with equine degrees if that is what you want to do. But do not limit yourself to those colleges! You could be missing a college that is PERFECT for you just because it doesn't offer what you THINK you want right now.

I am also a sophomore, and at first I thought I wanted to go to an equine school, but then I realized that nothing is certain in the horse business and a trainer/owner isn't going to hire you just b/c you have a B.S. in Equine Studies. A regular business degree is so much more... stable. You can do anything you want with a business degree, including be a trainer. You'll have all the skills needed to manage, and like Pat said, you better have the rest already.

May I suggest Wharton @ UPenn, it is an INCREDIBLE business school and it is in proximity to several top trainers. Personally for me, when I start to look at colleges, I'm not going to search for one with an equine program or even an IHSA team. I've done the intercollegiate thing, thanks but no thanks. Rather, I'm going to see what kind of impression the place makes on me, and then try and find a great barn near by. Don't limit yourself just to that degree, you could change your mind at any time and be screwed.

Stepping off my soapbox.

-Jackie-
"If you love something, let it go. It it comes back, its yours, if not, you'll never know."
http://jax.0catch.com

ponyperson
Nov. 25, 2001, 08:07 AM
G...Exactly!!! But why can't Warton have an equine dept, lol!

I plan on going to the best school I get into...that is, the one closest to a top barn!

"I feel like I'm in the twilight zone, and everyone else is a pig. I'm the pretty one, but they think I'm ugly because they are pigs and they think pigs are pretty."

Gayle
Nov. 25, 2001, 08:48 AM
Okay, I am donning my flame suit before starting this but.....

as far as I am concerned the only thing an "equine science" degree is good for is decorating a wall. If I am looking for a barn/trainer for myself and my horse I don't care if you have a degree. I care if you have experience and can use it. The world is full of people who have degrees in many subjects and can't apply the knowledge they acquired. Knowledge is a great thing but not very handy if you can't use it. And like you said:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I mean, if I don't make it professionally, I'm not going to have a whole bunch of people calling me saying "work for us, we're always looking for people who went to XXXX college<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> (deleting specific names!)

After all think about it: have you ever asked a trainer as part of determining if you would be working with them "so what college did you go to and did you get your equine science degree"?

Personally I favor going to a top notch school, learning to do something marketable that will pay well enough to support an equestrian habit, and boarding with a top facility during school. Hands on with horses is always better. Nothing is more rewarding than getting knowledge from a top horseman than an instructor in a classroom.

Just my opinion. Then again I could be wrong. Dennis Miller.

second chance
Nov. 25, 2001, 08:52 AM
ponyperson- have you tried college board (http://www.collegeboard.com) ? I'm using it to look for colleges that would be suitable for the profession I want to go into. I'm not sure if its exactly called this but have you looked into Merridith Mannor? they have equine science programs and riding programs and its fairly inexpensive. Just something to think about.

member of the Vertically CHALLENGED rider clique.

AnnM
Nov. 25, 2001, 09:24 AM
Hey PonyPerson! I know we've conversed before about a number of different topics, so I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in here. I don't want to get into which the "top" schools are, or the pros and cons of horse-related degrees. I think I might know why the schools you have listed as top schools -- Emory, Wake, BC, etc. DON'T have equine science programs. It's a simple supply and demand problem.

As you know, I went to Emory. In my 4 years there, I never once encountered anyone who had been involved in horses, at least not to the degree that I had been. Emory is not about to create a major that no one will want to take. There's simply not the demand for it.

Instead, if someone is determined to major in equine science, they will go to a school that has that program rather than come to Emory. They will look at schools like VI, etc.

I think equine business or science is just too specialized to be feasible at a "liberal arts" college like Emory. Schools that offer that type of program have seemed to find their niche, and I doubt (although I really have no idea) that demand is so high for those programs that other universities/colleges will start similar programs.

Just a theory...and if you want to talk about colleges (i.e. giving up on horses to go to a so-called "top" school), feel free to email me!!!

Ann /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Atypical
Nov. 25, 2001, 09:56 AM
I'll second the CSU thing. They're business school is excellent, as well as they're Equine Studies program. And to KAM, my friend is going to Del Val right now, and she loves it. I've seen the campus too, and it's gorgeous

Magnolia
Nov. 25, 2001, 11:33 AM
If you want to go get a degree in equestrian studies, why not go to a school like Lake Erie or Virginia Intermont. That is what they are known for. You don't go to MIT to get a degree in history, why do you need to go to Yale to get a degree in Equestrian studies?

I assume that places like VI are considered "good schools" for equestrian programs.

BTW, most schools probably don't have equestrian programs (although lots - UK, NC State etc have equine sccience) because as people have said, many top equestrians learn by experience, so the demand for those expensive programs isn't there.

The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

JR*
Nov. 25, 2001, 11:40 AM
ok. here goes:
I'm totally in your boat, so to speak. Here's what I have to say: I'm not going to be a professional. If you want to, that's your dream, and you should go for it. Right now I'm actually sitting amongst pamphlets and packages and a couple really large propectuses and I feel your pain. The thing is, a lot of good colleges have equine science/business/whatever degrees. Those that I'm looking at don't. You can keep riding through college wherever you go, and you can take a year (or two, or six) off before you go to college. Don't sacrifice your education (I'm going to be mean and horrible and say that, compared to going to princeton, going to school XXXXXX-with-a-riding-program is sacrificing your education) for a job-specific degree.

I don't want to be a lawyer in the sense of going to trial and such, but I'm looking at schools w/ a good jurisprudence department, because studying law teaches you more about thought than anything else. I dont' want to be a businessman in the sense of joining the corporate america workforce, but I'm looking at schools with strong economics programs b/c economics teaches independence. I don't want to be a literary critic, but I'm studying english because it teaches communication. I'm thinking about philosophy not because I want to be some chain-smoking, nocturnal card-carrying fixture withing the NY literati, but because I want to understand what moves human thought. Don't focus on what a degree gives you in terms of credentials or applicability twords your life's ambitions; focus on what a degree give you in terms of becoming and interesting, well-rounded, knowledgeable person. Graduate school is the place for job-specific learning, and even then Yale's law school, for example, is notorious for churning out moguls, justices, presidents--basically everything but your run-of-the-mill defense attorney.

Go to the best college you can get into. You have a whole year before you have to be in my position, and about 18 months before you have to sit down and start thinking about where (or if) you want to apply early decision. The horses will take care of themselves. They need you to be the most knowledgeable, successful person you can be. Remember you need to go away in order to come back.

VTrikki
Nov. 25, 2001, 12:56 PM
Va Tech has an equine science program as well as just about any other degree that you would want. They have a huge animal science program and are well known for their engineering school. The buisness program is one of the top 30 in the nation. Plus we have a IHSA team and also go open shows all year. I absolutley love it here and I am so sad to be graduating in may!! Oh and our barn manager for VT is a Va Intermont grad! She is AWSOME and we love her!!

Pat
Nov. 25, 2001, 01:05 PM
I like the supply and demand idea. It's true!

If you want to be a doctor, then you go to a school that is known for it's pre-med/med department. If you want to get an equine degree, then you go to a school known for it's equine program.

Ladies and gentleman, if you go through any program and don't suceed as a pro in that field, it will not matter where you went. (ok, unless there's a double major thing going on) You will still likely have to go back to school!!! Hello!!

Yes, some people I have worked for didn't give a rat's ass that I went to college. But some did! One went to the same school as I did. Don't think for a minute that didn't play a role.

In any field, employers want to see EXPERIENCE. A hard thing to come by for a newly graduated student. Certainly more opportunities exsist to the budding equine pro than to a biologist. The secret to making an equine degree work is making the most of the "mean time." Get a real job in the business while you study. Taco Bell will pay you more, but who cares that you know how to make a Chalupa? Take extra lessons, do every clinic, ride IHSA, egads, even try a different discipline. I couldn't even spell dressage until AJ Coyle (rest her, mother earth) came into my life. And I thought the jumpers were for nut cases who didn't know how to say "whoa." The ability to think out side the box in this way will add to you marketability.

Please enlighten the old person. 4.7? What scale was that on? I've heard of having a better GPA than a perfect 4.0, but that sounds like a different scale than I'm familiar with.

fleur
Nov. 25, 2001, 01:15 PM
but if you want to do equine sciences and do it well, then you should go to the place with the best equine science program! That is not necessarily the one with the best reputation, topping the lists, etc. If a person is going to scout you out for your ES degree, then you want to have one from the place that does it best. Like... if school A has the best law program, but school B is the most prestigious school in America, then you might get a better education at B but a person looking for a lawyer will want you to have a degree from A. Uhh I hope that made sense...

*EMMA*
http://emmapony.diaryland.com

Carlysue
Nov. 25, 2001, 01:47 PM
If I had SAT scores like you....I would be at an Ivy League school or at least on a full scholarship somewhere. My advice: You may want to do stuff with horses, but don't major in it. Let's face it, it's not the most secure or profitable profession for the average person. Major in business or managment and apply what you learn to the horse stuff. You always want t ohave something to fall back on because if you get injured and can't do horses anymore, what good is a equine science degree going to do you? Apply to the big name schools (Duke, Yale, Emory, UVa, Stanford, etc.) the ones that induce the "awe" factor ("wow, you go to ...") because the average person doesn't have the ability to get into schools like that and I think it would be a waste for you to forgo those opportunities. Yeah, people say it doesn't matter where yo uget your degree at but if I were an employer, I would so take the Yale grad over the UGA grad (even though both of them are GREAT schools, Yale just has an Ivy league reputation that state schools don't have). Good luck with your decision! And you can always find an IHSA team to ride on, so don't worry about horses...they're everywhere!

~Carla~
carlysue17@hotmail.com

Carlysue
Nov. 25, 2001, 01:50 PM
If ponyperson's school works like mine....the advanced classes get weighted for their difficulty, so an A in an Advanced placement course would be worth a 5.0 instead of a 4.0. If all you take is advanced courses you end up with an 4.0 GPA. Mine was a 4.45 and I took a mix of honors and AP courses.

~Carla~
carlysue17@hotmail.com

Posting Trot
Nov. 25, 2001, 01:54 PM
(and by top level, I mean that they're widely perceived by educators as being the most selective and scholastically demanding) do not have equine studies programs because they are all places that specialize in the liberal arts. Equine studies is a pre-professional degree (like business), and is not a liberal art (like history or political science or biology). Many good schools have equestrian teams, even if they don't have a major in equine studies.

At virtually any school, regardless of your major, you can get an excellent education, if you work and study hard, pay attention, and take the job of educating yourself seriously. The differences between the top-level schools and the middle-level schools are the variety of majors, the preparation and interests of the student body, (often) the amount of work expected to be completed in classes, and the respect that others will accord the degree. Like it or not, the last is true. Fair or not, the last is true.

Aeamian
Nov. 25, 2001, 02:35 PM
mrewf...College.. x.x The scariest thing for me at this moment.
I want to go to a college where I can keep winston..in fact, i'm looking at an Art college in San Fransisco. If I went there, i'd be close to home so I could still ride..but I want my horse with me. :/

Wear your grudge like a crown of negativity.
Calculate what we will or will not tolerate.
Desperate to control all and everything.
Unable to forgive your scarlet lettermen.
Clutch it like a cornerstone. Otherwise it all comes down.
Justify denials and grip it to the lonesome end.
Clutch it like a cornerstone. Otherwise it all comes down.
Terrified of being wrong. Ultimatum prison cell.
Saturn ascends, choose one or ten. Hang on or be humbled again.

Aeamian
Nov. 25, 2001, 02:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PostingTrot:


At virtually any school, regardless of your major, you can get an excellent education, if you work and study hard, pay attention, and take the job of educating yourself seriously. .<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's pretyt much true. I see all these people wanting to get into high class schools, for majors that you can get at a lot of schools that arnt' that common. yes, it depends on how hard you work..never been in college..but I know enough about life to agree with that :P

Wear your grudge like a crown of negativity.
Calculate what we will or will not tolerate.
Desperate to control all and everything.
Unable to forgive your scarlet lettermen.
Clutch it like a cornerstone. Otherwise it all comes down.
Justify denials and grip it to the lonesome end.
Clutch it like a cornerstone. Otherwise it all comes down.
Terrified of being wrong. Ultimatum prison cell.
Saturn ascends, choose one or ten. Hang on or be humbled again.

KellyS
Nov. 25, 2001, 05:19 PM
Pat made such good points!

EXPERIENCE is the key. That is the downfall of many equine science programs. Many students believe that the program will provide the knowledge for becoming a professional in the horse world. It doesn't. It lays a groundwork of common standards, knowledge, AND CONTACTS to progress in the horse world. It provides a well-rounded education and experience in various disciplines. But it can't replace experience.

I am a equine science major and I am so glad I picked this major. There is nothing better than studying and taking courses about horsemanship. And they are very hard courses. I have an easier time with my core classes in math, English, science, etc than with equine feed/nutrition and health management to name two. But my emphasis is on business and thats where my electives are focused. I plan on becoming involved in the business end of the horse world, not the training or barn management. An equine degree can enhance your knowledge in these areas, but will not make you a professional.

However, I do tons of stuff outside of school to bolster my experience. I compete at USEA-recognized events on my employer's mare, I take regular dressage and jumping lessons with my own trainers, I work at a competitive driving barn and groom at shows, and I ride in clinics. I also do fun stuff like representing the college at Equine Expos and riding in functions for the International Side Saddle Organization. This kind of experience can't be replicated at school. You have to be motivated to get out there and do it!

Sorry this is so long, but pursuing an equine degree is not just going to classes and taking exams, it is so much more involved. And yes, I had the grades and SAT scores to get into "big" schools, but I am so happy where I am pursuing my passion and enjoying my life.

spaz
Nov. 25, 2001, 05:30 PM
Question:
If you got a business degree with a specialization in equine business, could you still get a good job with a regular business if your horse plan fails? The program I'm taking about is the St. Andrews one...

http://www.sapc.edu/busi1.html

I think it's like the second one...

http://jrsclique.proboards.com/index.cgi
Junior Clique!

*What if the Hokey-Pokey IS what it's all about?*

InWhyCee
Nov. 25, 2001, 06:01 PM
Yeah, people say it doesn't matter where yo uget your degree at but if I were an employer, I would so take the Yale grad over the UGA grad (even though both of them are GREAT schools, Yale just has an Ivy league reputation that state schools don't have).
____________

Unless, of course, said employer once hired a barely-made-it brat from Yale and lived to regret it... or went to UGA him or herself... or UGA grad was a Rhodes Scholar... or Yalie penned incoherent cover letter on cheap white paper... FYI, I have BEEN an employer and an employee for more than ten years and, after your first job, few people seem to care where you marticulated, unless they're also an alum. As for state schools... some are awful; others are called UVA, Cal Berkley, et cetera. Proceed with care...

"People... they're so
complicated. I suppose
that's why I prefer
horses."

[This message was edited by InWhyCee on Nov. 26, 2001 at 10:33 AM.]

daytimedrama
Nov. 25, 2001, 06:04 PM
My Dad is a lawyer and he says the Harvard graduate, yes looks good on paper, but isn't the best lawyer. The extra edge of going to a renowned competative school looks better. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

~Christina~
"I don't patronize bunny rabbits!" -Heathers
*Nothing is foolproof to a talented fool.*

Jo
Nov. 25, 2001, 06:12 PM
InWhyCee, great post.

Thank goodness I ROCK at cover letters and good quality printer paper. /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

InWhyCee
Nov. 25, 2001, 06:23 PM
I bet you type them, too... no colored ink (seen it) or artistic nude photos of your sister (seen that, too!)

Ponyperson... Nothing against the Ivy Leagues -- with your SATs you're halfway in and you probably wouldn't regret it if there was a barn nearby. But if you do go Ivy, don't let it go to your head. Employers from the sub-Ivies who had great SATs and lousy HS grades (e.g. me) hate that.

"People... they're so
complicated. I suppose
that's why I prefer
horses."

Lord Helpus
Nov. 25, 2001, 06:52 PM
Posting Trot, You hit the nail on the head. The Ivy League schools are Liberal Art colleges/ universities. Basically, they prepare you to go on to graduate school. They do not prepare you for a job/ career when you graduate.

An Equine Science major is an entirely different kettle of fish from an economics or english or government major. Those latter majors have been around since the universities started. Equine science is a johnny-come-lately major and was instituted to accomodate people looking to graduate qualified for a job in the horse industry.

So, people have 2 choices: they can go (if qualified) to an Ivy League school and take their horse with them (although I did that and I do not recommend it) or go to a school with an Equine Science major and make horses their entire future.

Aeamian
Nov. 25, 2001, 07:30 PM
o_o


I think i'm just sticking to Art ^_^ That's what i'm good At, and what i'm good at, i'll take advantage of.

Wear your grudge like a crown of negativity.
Calculate what we will or will not tolerate.
Desperate to control all and everything.
Unable to forgive your scarlet lettermen.
Clutch it like a cornerstone. Otherwise it all comes down.
Justify denials and grip it to the lonesome end.
Clutch it like a cornerstone. Otherwise it all comes down.
Terrified of being wrong. Ultimatum prison cell.
Saturn ascends, choose one or ten. Hang on or be humbled again.

UNCeventer
Nov. 25, 2001, 11:27 PM
I also got a basically a full scholarship to SAPC. It is a nice campus (some places look a little run down), but it is also small. I came from a very small high school with 32 in my grad class. After visiting, I realized that I wanted something larger. The people were very nice and helpful and a had a great time when I went to visit for a weekend. As far as the equestrian stuff- they are building a new barn (which is gorgeous) but its not yet finished. It will be a great improvement from where they are now. Also- I was possibly considering a pre-vet major. I talked with the prevet professor and he was having an "allergy attack". It was very um...not attractive. He was sneezing all over the place and well, i couldnt see taking a class from him. I know that sounds really superficial of me, but when you are thinking of colleges- you have to consider every aspect. This incidence was just one of those things that stuck out in my mind when I thought of SAPC. I look back on it now and laugh- I REALLY REALLY enjoy going to the horse shows there. I have a freind there that I met the weekend I came to visit and he absolutely loves it there- he rides too! I guess it just depends on what you think is right for you. I also felt that if I wanted to go into business, that a regualr business degree would be more beneficial and open more options to me in the working feild than would an equine bus. degree. I also wanted a larger school. It is a nice school and I have heard many great things about it. Sometimes, I do have second thoughts like- why didnt i go to SAPC??? But I am always second guessing myself. GOOD LUCK...FEEL FREE TO ASK MORE QUESTIONS!!
/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Evalee Hunter
Nov. 26, 2001, 06:56 AM
Cornell used to have a College of Agriculture (now called Life Sciences.) I am not sure you can major in equine studies but you can take all the animal husbandry (feeds & feeding, animal genetics, etc. etc.) you want. They also have an equestrian team & I believe they still have barns & an indoor although I believe it is not located in the same place as when I went there 36 years ago. I think Cornell University is the ONLY IVY LEAGUE school where you can major in animal science!

Lucassb
Nov. 26, 2001, 07:28 AM
If you want a top-rated academic school with a riding program - consider UPenn. It's huge, certainly, but may offer what you are looking for if size is not a factor, and you appear to have the grades necessary to get in.

The Wharton school which is part of the UPenn system, is without question one of the top graduate business schools in the world.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to go to a top ranked school and also pursue your interest in horses. You may or may not be able to get an "equine" degree - but if you are looking for business training, the skills will apply to ANY business you want to go into (horses or otherwise) and having that Ivy League degree isn't ever going to hurt you with an employer. It is evidence that you were able to produce high quality work in a competitive environment.

It is a bit like horseshows in a way.

The A circuit is considered to be the most competitive. So are the Ivy League colleges.

That doesn't mean that people who show on a local level are not good riders, or that there aren't competitive local circuits. Non-Ivy league schools can certainly provide an excellent education, but they do not offer the prestige associated with a top-ranked school like Harvard or Yale.

BTW, I went to a non-Ivy school (Colgate U.) Now zipping up my gray flame suit complete with the maroon Red Raider logo. Go Gate!

**********
To appreciate heaven well
'Tis good for a man to have some fifteen minutes of hell.
Will Carleton (1845-1912)

lauriep
Nov. 26, 2001, 11:55 AM
as usual, I am in total agreement with you. NEVER once have I known a trainer/barn manager to be asked where they got their degree, nor do I think it is important. Actually, of the many "horse school" people I had to work with over the years, none of them impressed me. They had the book knowledge, but had no clue what to do with it. Most had no practical experience, and few had the common sense so necessary in this business.

Go to the best college you can afford, get a major in a "real" career, i.e. business, and get your horse experience "on the job" where you will see it all, learn the "whys" along with the "whats" and can immediately put into practice what you learn.

Laurie

BLBGP
Nov. 26, 2001, 12:42 PM
Aeamian - where do you ride near SF? That art school is great. I lived in the city for the past six years and worked in a very artist-related field, so I met a lot of students there. Good place.

Ponyperson, I'm with the majority here. Go to a school that has a great barn nearby and possible intercollegiate stuff. Get a good, well rounded education at a place where you can figure yourself out while you are there. Continue to ride - a lot - but hone other skills that will help in the future if you become a trainer or not. And most importantly, go to a school you feel good about, someplace where you will be challenged academically, meet some great people, have room to grow as a (pony)person, and love the campus and what it has to offer.

Erin
Nov. 26, 2001, 01:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Evalee Hunter:
Cornell used to have a College of Agriculture (now called Life Sciences.) I am not sure you can major in equine studies but you can take all the animal husbandry (feeds & feeding, animal genetics, etc. etc.) you want. They also have an equestrian team & I believe they still have barns & an indoor although I believe it is not located in the same place as when I went there 36 years ago. I think Cornell University is the ONLY IVY LEAGUE school where you can major in animal science!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, as far as I know. I did a concentration in AnSci, along with a communication major -- both are in the College of Agriculture and Life Sciences. (And yes, I am employed without having gone to grad school. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

Of course, Cornell is (at least partially) a state school, so they do things differently there.

The AnSci program, at least at Cornell, is probably more geared toward people who are thinking of going to vet school or into production animals. (Dairy farming, for instance.) I took an intro level class in horses -- most of it was stuff I knew from Pony Club. But there were also classes in genetics and more specialized things like that.

I, too, first started out looking for "horsey" schools... and was also a little disappointed that the colleges I had heard of weren't the ones with good horsey programs. I didn't ever want to do horses professionally... I think I was looking for a school where I could ride, and just kind of gravitated toward the horsey ones. But they weren't a good fit for me, and I fortunately ended up at a school I loved, got a great education, and got to ride my own horse for all four years.

Every school has its strong points and weak points... I wanted to go to a big school with lots of options, I loved it, and I took a huge variety of classes just because they were out there and I was interested in them.

Yes, the prestigious name is nice (although in journalism, having Northwestern or Columbia on my resume would have been better /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ), but I think what matters more is what you get out of your education and your college experience. Just find a good school that you like and has the classes you want.

Blue Devil
Nov. 26, 2001, 01:09 PM
But maybe it's just my computer, but everyone who's changed usernames is having their posts show up under their old names for me...does that make sense? Or did everyone change back to their old names?

For example, all of Yeehaw's posts show up as RumoursFollow (her old name) and all of jSTR's posts show up as *JR.....

Is my computer just wacko or is Infopop being funny today? Anyone else having this problem?

**~~Emily~~** proud
member of the junior clique!
Emily@catchride.com

In The Gate
Nov. 26, 2001, 01:17 PM
Holy Cow!

You're right!

I just noticed that...

Valerie
~VWiles02@yahoo.com~
Valerie's home page (http://www.geocities.com/vwiles02)

Anne FS
Nov. 26, 2001, 01:17 PM
KAM, do you go to Del Val? My daughter is considering going there. Del Val is known for its hands-on and its internship programs, and I think that more and more upscale places will in future appreciate an Equine Science degree when you can back it up with the internships like Del Val provides.

That being said, I have to admit that people have told me Del Val is considered weak academically compared to other area schools. The people who told me this were 2 doctors, one of whom is of the admissions committee for Hahnemann Hospital med school. They told me its non-equine regular academic stuff is considered weak. Many people think it is a community college. Perhaps it was once?

LJD
Nov. 26, 2001, 01:21 PM
Just throwing out a few names:
- William & Mary
- Del Val (Not the greatest school though. I go to Del Val HIGH SCHOOL and alot of our senior go to the college... not the winners that's for sure! Good horse program though!)
- Ithaca
- Skidmore
- Findley U.
- Rutgers
- Centenary College

"Perhaps, if I am very lucky, the feeble efforts of my lifetime will someday be noticed, and maybe, in some small way, they will be acknowledged as the greatest works of genius ever created by Man." - Jack Handey
*Pony Rock*

GirlLikeThat
Nov. 26, 2001, 01:55 PM
Your right, most of the top competitive colleges do not have programs for equestrians. However you have to think about what you want. If you want to become an engineer, you look at the top engineering schools not the top dance schools right? So if you want to be a pro equestrian person then you need to look for the best equestrian schools, not the best schools in other things. But two good schools that do have equestrian programs are skidmore and Rutgers (State university but it is very tough and a very good school, especially the animal science program!)

Erin

Anne FS
Nov. 26, 2001, 02:25 PM
KAM, I somehow skipped the 2nd pg of this thread so I just saw your post. Sounds like Del Val is tops in the Equine Science program but may not be tops in some other fields. There are certainly other colleges like that.

The problem with equine programs is that by the time you get to C3 and up USPC programs a college program won't help you. A lot of college programs seem to take students who don't know about horses but want to learn. Del Val expects you to know how to ride and care for a horse before you get there.

We've had some kids from our area pony club check out Centenary and Wilson and the equine majors were teaching stuff that was lower level pony club stuff--great for non-pony club students but not for upper rated people. Both girls ended up going to "regular" college, one for a business and one for a marketing degree, which suited them better. My daughter is torn between going to Del Val for the equine training major or going to St. Joseph's in Philly for biology.....

jSTR
Nov. 26, 2001, 03:10 PM
the world's cutest jack russel (not mine, though...:() so I don't care...but you're right...weird.

charter memeber, Thread Killers Anonymous
(yes, this means you should yell at me when my posts are too long, and bump threads that I kill)

"People come and go in this Forest, and they say, 'It's only Eeyore, so it doesn't count.' They walk to and fro saying 'Ha Ha!'. BUMP MY POSTS!!!

KellyS
Nov. 26, 2001, 03:44 PM
DelVal has got one of the top equine programs! And I'm not saying it just because I go there...many, many prospective students comment that of all the equine programs they've checked out DelVal is really one of the best.

I came to DelVal with a good degree of experience - I had competed at the national level with the both the AQHA and AHSA circuit competing at the worlds and indoors. I came up through a great 4-H program and regularly gave talks and small clinics.

However, being enrolled in DelVal showed me just how much I didn't know. The "equine" classes were hard and the freshman schedule can be grueling. I started to deepen my dressage background and got solid over fences instruction. By sophomore year, little ole scaredy cat me was eventing. I work with a competitive driving barn and the owner provides a lovely horse for me to event on. By last semester, my riding class was schooling and showing second level dressage. I now am the co-editor for the Equine Science Department Newsletter that keeps campus up-to-date on IHSA; the Event, Drill, and Vaulting teams; the in-house dressage and jumping shows; and various clinics with outside trainers. It is a well-rounded program that had advanced my knowledge greatly!

For someone like me that had no great interest in going to college and took a year off to apprentice with a top trainer, the college offered a program that motivated me to pursue a college degree.

Crescendo
Nov. 26, 2001, 05:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Don't sacrifice your education (I'm going to be mean and horrible and say that, compared to going to princeton, going to school XXXXXX-with-a-riding-program is sacrificing your education) for a job-specific degree. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I most definitely agree. I know I don't want to major in any "horsey" degrees. I also know that I will be bringing my horse to college. Ever since I began researching colleges, I have realized that there is a considerable gap between top schools and "horsey" schools. (I'm not trying to sound snotty. I'm trying to be objective, although I realize that the collegiate experience is very subjective.) Sure, horsey schools might have good horse programs, but they (usually) lack the student diversity and overall educational quality of a top school.

Everyone wants to have the best four years possible. As corny as it sounds, only you knows what will be best for you. Whether it be a big name school or not. I know that I will not find what I want at a horsey college. (small-medium size liberal arts school with a liberal, diverse student body and a top-notch education)

Although there is still a year before I start applying, all signs are pointing to Wesleyan University in Middletown, CT. No horsey program in sight, but I'm pretty sure that I'd be mighty happy there.

unceventer: Hey, my fellow barn friend! It's Susan... small world.

In The Gate
Nov. 26, 2001, 05:35 PM
Wesleyan is one of my top choices right now...

Except it doesn't really seem possible to bring my horse.

Valerie
~VWiles02@yahoo.com~
Valerie's home page (http://www.geocities.com/vwiles02)

Pat
Nov. 26, 2001, 07:05 PM
I could just cry! I had this great post half typed in and then AOL logged me off! I HATE AOL.

Ok, now to remember what I had typed in. I had a headache before, now it's really bad. I'm feeling a little rambling coming on, so bear with me.

One of the most important parts of picking a program is knowing what you expect to do after granduation. Essentially, what do you what to be when you grow up? Do you ultimately expect to be a trainer/rider, a manager, a breeder, etc.?

Most incoming freshmen think ultimately they are going to be a big trainer/rider. WRONG! Unless you are in that top 5% of the Junior rider population who could just as soon turn pro on thier 19th birthday as blow up a balloon, you are not going to become a household name. Just ain't gonna happen. I know I suck, so I didn't suffer from that dillusion. That said, get your hands on a IHSA program from Finals. It thoughtfully lists all previous winners in each division. See any names you recogise? Now I'm not saying that that select handfull that will jump out at you where "made" by thier alma matter. What's important to note is that they did elect to go to "horsey school'.

With the help of your parents AND your trainer, take a good look at yourself and decide what direction your talents trully lie. That will help you decide which type of school is best. State programs tend to be more "Aggie", private ones more general. The aggies are good for the student most interested in breeding and starting young horses or are likely to move up to vet school later. The general programs try to create a rounded horseman but let you shine in your best area. At VI, we had an annual rider award and a management award. My friend Dottie was the first freshman to win the management award. She's a great rider too, but she shines brighter behind the scenes.

You will hear alot of negative attitude about college programs. I say the hell with it. You will be told that you won't learn anything practical in college. Hmm, well, I learned how to give an IM and an IV, how to wrap a leg as well as when and why, the complete anatomy of the equine, essential course design, how to run a horse show (and then did it) how to braid, how to body clip, how to fit a bridle and saddle, the list goes on. Yes, you can go indenture yourself to some trainer and learn all about the above, but they will not teach you to write better, deepen your appreciation for the arts, give lectures about macroeconomics, make you learn every thing there is worth knowing about western civilization up thru the Industrial Revolution, blah, blah, blah. I think you get where I'm heading. It's called a high education for a reason.

Like I said before, if you're not a sucess as a horseman, you will likely need to go back to school. Think about it. If you try to break into a field that will care where you went to school, then they will care whether or not you majored in that field. If at that point you apply to a "better" college than before, it won't necessarily matter what school you went to. What does matter is your GPA as an undergrad, your Graduate Admissions testing, the interview and whatever other hoops you will need to jump through.

Maybe you shouldn't be thinking THAT far ahead anyway. If you are, you've already failed. At worst you should be thinking about a back up plan in case you get hurt and can't do this anymore, not about failing to suceed.

ProzacPuppy
Nov. 27, 2001, 06:19 AM
It doesn't matter so much where you do your undergraduate degree, but your graduate school credentials are pretty important in the business world. So, go whereever you want for undergrad, get a 4.0 and go to Wharton or Harvard Business for your MBA. Easy....

To lucassb- I am also a Colgate grad tho probably many moons prior to you (one of the first groups of women accepted actually, back when Colgate was a party school, the frats were on tap 24/7 and 1400 on the SATs was considered really good, not the minimum needed. Those students just get smarter every year up there). But I also did a semester as a visiting student at Dartmouth and have to say that I cannot imagine keeping up with the coursework at an Ivy League school and having much free time to do any riding/showing. The effort level necessary to maintain top grades at the Ivies is pretty intense.

The top colleges are pressure cookers and everyone is brilliant and they expect you to be brilliant as well.

UNCeventer
Nov. 27, 2001, 11:43 AM
Truthfully, if you are wanting to go pro...see where some of the "big names" went to school. I think this will reveal something about that profession.

dublin
Nov. 27, 2001, 11:50 AM
assuming they even went to college.... /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Lucassb
Nov. 27, 2001, 11:55 AM
I graduated from Colgate in '87 /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif and was proud to be a "chip"... my grandfather was a Colgate grad (def. only MEN at that time!) and he was the one who convinced me to go look at 'Gate.

It actually settled a bit of an argument at the time; my parents badly wanted me to go to an Ivy school, and I desperately wanted to go to UVa (lots of horses! plus a beautiful campus.) My folks quite correctly assumed that if I had the choice between riding and studying, my grades were not going to be good.

Colgate was the "compromise" school and I fell in love with the campus maybe one minute after driving up toward the Case library. I didn't ride at all during college, but was so busy doing other things that I didn't miss it nearly as much as I thought I would. There were certainly plenty of parties /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif but the work was pretty challenging as well. I had good grades and graduated with honors, but I had to work at it.

**********
To appreciate heaven well
'Tis good for a man to have some fifteen minutes of hell.
Will Carleton (1845-1912)

Duffy
Nov. 27, 2001, 11:57 AM
I can't speak of other horsey degree colleges, but I can speak of one, now senior, at VIC and she is FABULOUS!!!! She was our volunteer groom at the VIC Classic A show at Lexington earlier this year. Because of her enthusiasm, knowledge, professionalism, caring personality, etc., my trainers hired her to work for us this summer. We HATED seeing her go back to school!!!! I went to the VIC Tournament of Champions in September and was assured by Eddie that she was valued extremely highly there as well.

From what I've heard, Eddie's program graduates have a 100% placement rate. I think that says a lot!

If you want a liberal arts degree, go to the best liberal arts school you can get into. If you want a horse oriented degree, go to the best horse oriented college you can.

I went to St. Lawrence University because I wanted a coed liberal arts school known for great academics AND riding program. I was lucky in that I was also able to work at the barn all four years. I have a BA in Government. I majored in Government because I thought that maybe I'd want to go to law school one day. Oh well. I also liked the professors in that Department. I never did anything directly involved with my major, yet I was very successful in my careers. I worked for my professional degrees while I worked, after college. I think one gets out of a college education what one puts into it, provided you go to a decent school. I think the same goes for life in general.

Sorry for the rambling...

kissy
Nov. 27, 2001, 12:11 PM
Just a side note . . a ton of my friends here (at Tufts) were deciding between Tufts and Wesleyan . . (many like me, loved wesleyan till they visited, ). So you guys should look here too!

PeekABoo
Nov. 27, 2001, 01:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lucassb:
BTW, I went to a non-Ivy school (Colgate U.) Now zipping up my gray flame suit complete with the maroon Red Raider logo. Go Gate!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lucassb-
I almost went to Colgate. I was actually going there up until the last second practically, when I visited Franklin & Marshall one last time, and decided I wasn't sure if I could the upstate NY winters. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Did you like it? The campus is beautiful!!! It rained the whole weekend we were up there, but I still thought it was beautiful.

Jess

Lucassb
Nov. 27, 2001, 01:35 PM
Yes, I loved going to Colgate. The winters were COLD! but I liked to ski and they had a fledgling (club) team back then, which was fun. They were also still running the ski slope AT the school, which I believe has since been shut down /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
'Course, in those days we had to RUN the hill prior to the season, to get fit. Talk about huffing and puffing ... you couldn't exactly stay out all night drinking and handle that program!

I had such a good time my first year, that I actually got my brother to sign up for the following year... he came for Spring Party Weekend and decided it was the place for him, too.

I *really* thought the classes in general were excellent and still recall Martha Brill Olcott's Living Politicians course - she brought in so many famous and interesting speakers. For example, she had Gerald Ford come to do a lecture, and I got to go to a small dinner party with him that evening. How many colleges would provide the opportunity to have dinner with a former president? It was fascinating.

I would recommend Colgate to anyone who wanted a strong academic program in a gorgeous small school setting. You will definitely be surrounded by academically talented people, but the students also tend to be into other things as well - lots of athletes, artists etc. It's competitive but not killer, and the alumni networking groups are great.

**********
To appreciate heaven well
'Tis good for a man to have some fifteen minutes of hell.
Will Carleton (1845-1912)

wanderlust
Nov. 27, 2001, 03:28 PM
Where you get your undergrad degree *does* matter in the business world, especially when you are just out of school. I went to a not-quite-ivy school (top 15) with an undergrad business program that is consistently ranked top 5 nationally. What did this get me, other than a big ol' piece of paper? A starting salary that was significantly higher than that of friends who had not gone to top schools (and which my parents called "obscene for someone your age"). A network of friends who also went to killer jobs with killer salaries, so when I put the word out that I was ready to leave my former job/geographic location, I was flown by 3 different companies to Virginia, Philly and San Francisco for interviews, and received three *very nice* offers within 3 days of eachother. Shortly after I started at my new position, my boss told me "I would have hired you without even interviewing you- your school has such a great reputation, and I've had such good luck with other alumni from there that have worked for me."

I now have a fairly important job (with a tech bellwether) that I love, I live in a location that I love, and I have (and can handily afford) a very fancy horse that I love. When I apply for admission to MBA programs, I will have both my undergrad degree and some fantastic work experience to bolster my application.

You do not need an equine science degree to succeed in the horse world. You need hard work, dedication, talent, hands-on experience and a little bit of luck). Nor do you need to take equine science to ride during college. I took lessons once a week while school was in (and it was tough to carve time out for that with my schedule), and spent summers and Christmas break teaching, coaching and schooling. I was tempted to work for my trainer full-time after graduating and eventually get my own client base (i.e. her overflow), but decided to give the business world a shot. And I'm glad I did.

Lavender Menace
Nov. 27, 2001, 04:30 PM
I agree with master_tally. Your undergraduate school DOES count for something, especially if you plan to be gainfully employed after you graduate but before you go to grad school (if that's in the works). I am graduating very soon from a top 12 liberal arts school, and I know that this school's name on my resume will make prospective employers take another look, however brief. It may seem shallow, but it's real. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I always wanted to go to "horse school," and I'm certainly not knocking anyone who does, but I wouldn't forfeit the chance to go to the best college you can get into (and that fits your needs) because they don't have Equine Science or whathaveyou. Another girl posted a few weeks ago, asking which school she should choose: the one with great pasture for her horse and a not-so-hot academic life, or crappy pasture and excellent academics. Analyze your priorities carefully before you make this big decision...

WindWhistler82
Nov. 27, 2001, 05:46 PM
The University of Findlay isn't just a horse school. They have a ton of other majors other than Equine Science. The school encourages kids in the Equine Studies majors to take a duel major in business or some other field along with equine science. That way if you don't make it in the horse business you have something you can fall back on.

*~*Katie*~*

~Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experiance.~*~Proud member of the College Clique!~

WindWhistler82
Nov. 27, 2001, 05:48 PM
Hey Kam, do you know a girl named Maria Malkowitz? She goes to DVC too and she's a good friend of mine.

*~*Katie*~*

~Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experiance.~*~Proud member of the College Clique!~

KellyS
Nov. 27, 2001, 05:58 PM
Windwhistler - What year is she? I am terrible with names, but know so many people by face! I am much better with the horse's names!

WindWhistler82
Nov. 27, 2001, 06:19 PM
KAM she's a freshman...but I don't know who her care horse is...she's from NJ and has a horse back home named Bob if that helps....

*~*Katie*~*

~Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experiance.~*~Proud member of the College Clique!~

Absolut Equestrian
Nov. 27, 2001, 06:47 PM
I read through all of the posts so far, and I didn't see anything about UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND! I guess you all are just too jealous to bring it up.....

I am currently a student at UM majoring in Animal Science. The program here is growing, and they now have equine studies too! This is a great school (Have you seen the ZOOM comercials?)that offers a lot of nationally ranked academic programs. There is a small equestrian facility of campus, and we have an IHSA team based out of Clay Hill Stables.

Originally I applied here because of the in state tuition factor (which I think applies to you,PonyPerson.) I was actually suprised how much I LOVE it here.

That is just my opinion, and if you have any questions, E-Mail or Im me /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Absolut_Equestrian
**ZOOM**

UNCeventer
Nov. 27, 2001, 07:38 PM
Thats right- most of them dont go to college.

Some do. Jane Sleeper did.


I also heard that UNH used to or still does have a good equestrian program????

PonyJumperGRL
Nov. 27, 2001, 07:50 PM
Pony Person, I SO see where you're going with this.

I'm in the exact same position (but I'm a Freshman not a Sophomore)

If I somehow don't end up Pro (which I refuse to accept as an option, but ya never know)...Having a horse degree is pretty useless unless you plan working WITH horses.

I also happen to come from one of the most College Driven schools in Southern California (a 4.0 is nothing to brag about)...Being constantly surrounded by HP, AP, and GATE students, when people talk about what they're planning to do, I tend to avoid directly saying "I want to be a professional horse person"....Because people would look at me like I'm crazy! (Like, why do I stay up until the wee hours of morning trying to finish my homework if I'm going to "throw it all away")

My mom has finally excepted that I want to be pro and nothing she can say or do will change that. So, I've decided, I'm going to major in business or something that will be useful if I was say, paralyzed or something AWFUL...

These days, everyone goes to college. To get a job thats good enough to be involved with the expense of horses you have to go to a very notable or renowned college...

Sorry folks, thats the way it is! Talk to my counselors.....

In The Gate
Nov. 27, 2001, 07:52 PM
PonyJumper-
what school do you go to?

Valerie
~VWiles02@yahoo.com~
Valerie's home page (http://www.geocities.com/vwiles02)

Chicago
Nov. 27, 2001, 08:19 PM
Hey...I'm looking at Wesleyan, too!

I finally decided that I ought to look for the school that fit my non-horsey needs best. So, I'm not applying at any horse-focused schools.

Except for Mt. Holyoke. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I convinced my parents that it would be a good safety school for me. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Other than that, I'm applying at University of Chicago (not a horse in sight!), Stanford (they have a barn), and Claremont McKenna (local places to ride).

When I seriously looked at my priorities, a horsey degree wasn't there. The places with horses are a bonus, not a necessity.

Erin
Nov. 27, 2001, 08:41 PM
Well, while I admit that I have never asked a potential trainer where he or she went to school (nor do I know where many of my trainers went to school), I don't think that necessarily means it's not important.

After all, college is a period of time where you really (hopefully) figure out who you are as a person and gain a lot of life experience. It's not just about classes and grades, but about life. If going to a particular school enriches your life and your life's experiences, then it makes you a better person and therefore a better trainer.

One of my pet peeves with the horse world has always been the fact that horse people can be really narrow-minded, only focused on horses. And that's probably why a lot of pros didn't go to school... if it's not going to directly improve their future business, maybe they don't think it's worth the time.

BTW, I know of one hunter trainer in VA (not a big name or anything, but a successful trainer who does A shows) who went to Cornell. Of course, I've forgotten her name.... and I don't know if Susie Schoellkopf went to Cornell or not, but someone in her family must have, because our football stadium is named after them! (And that's the only reason I can spell Schoellkopf! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif )

ProzacPuppy
Nov. 28, 2001, 06:23 AM
Okay, I was assuming we were going straight from undergrad to grad school. If you are going straight into the business world, they will still prefer the Ivy grad over the non-Ivy (except here in TX where the A&M and UT grads are esp. highly prized). And if you don't intend to go to grad school at all, you should choose the best undergrad that will take you. I was just saying that you could go to a state university or an Ivy for undergrad if you were planning on going to Wharton Business or Harvard Law. Once you got that grad degree, no interviewer is going to ponder your undergrad stuff very much.

I was just discussing with some other "elderly" friends who are parents of college age kids tho that I think the age of the liberal arts education is coming to an end. Colgate said they were not teaching us a trade (business, law, computers) but teaching us "how to learn". This prepared you for further studies in which you narrowed your focus to your area of concentration (med, law, vet) and the grad school gave you the technical education. A liberal arts education is a great background on which to base further education but it seems that nowadays you need to graduate with more job specific skills to get into alot of professions. Back "in the old days" my college didn't even have business courses. You could take Econ, but that was about it.

Colgate- Snow from October to May, Cardiac Hill in January. No fun....But, "Camp Colgate" was a terrific way to spend 4 years.

Bells
Nov. 28, 2001, 07:27 AM
DF Duplication - Mt. Holyoke is not a horse focused school - great barn though. Riding can be taken for Phys. Ed. credit but nothing else. Also the closest thing available to a business degree is an econ major and there really are no ag. type classes with the possible exception of some biology classes.

Rose

UNCeventer
Nov. 28, 2001, 07:35 AM
I loved the school- OMG IT WAS GORGEOUS!!! But- WOW was it expensive. Basically, If I had decided to go there, we wouldnt have had enough money for me to keep my horses- so obviously, I decided not to go there. It was so excited when I found out that I was accepted! The barn is really really neat. When I went to visit, they were having a combined test. The other thing that I didnt really like was that it was all girls, but ya know- an all girl school is not the end of the world. Aside from the cost and the all girl part- it was wonderful. /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Bells
Nov. 28, 2001, 07:48 AM
Lucky me - I had a full scholarship. All I had to come up with was book $ /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Rose

Dry Clean Only
Nov. 28, 2001, 08:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I also heard that UNH used to or still does have a good equestrian program???? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

UNH is along the same lines as the other state aggie universities that others were talking about. I go there and have considered the equine science major (it is a subdivision of the animal science major there) but I have mixed feelings about it. The facilities are nice and the science faculty is top notch. However the riding is 'balance seat' aka dressage and eventing based. The head of the program also is into morgans and is still breeding them as sport horses. I love a good morgan but realistically the TB/WB would be more in line with the modern sport horse. I also haven't been impressed with some of the other students in the program.

I guess its right for some people but if I were to decided to go to school for and equine science degree I would probably have gone to Colorado State instead.

hobson
Nov. 28, 2001, 08:50 AM
I would think that the reason for the presence or absence of equine science degree programs is largely related to a school's academic tradition. One might tend to find these at schools that already house agricultural-type programs, for instance the land-grant universities, or rural colleges and the like. Likewise, some schools have prestigious architecture or theater programs, some don't--it just depends on the tradition/history of that particular school.

The top schools that do not already have horse programs are unlikely to get them any time soon--I can say with some certainty that it would be nearly impossible to convince the faculty senate at a school reknown for its philosophy or chemistry departments that a manure-mucking, horse riding degree is a legitimate academic enterprise. Quite honestly, many in the humanities and sciences cannot for the life of them figure out how business got in the door as an academic field (it's there to pay the bills for the physics labs, and political research, really)--you won't ever get them to approve the academic study of horses in the curriculum.

Crescendo
Nov. 28, 2001, 05:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> just a side note . . a ton of my friends here (at tufts) were deciding between tufts and Wesleyan . . (many like me, loved wesleyan till they visited, ) but anyways. You guys should look here too then! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've heard that (about Wesleyan) a lot. I guess I won't know until I visit. And I am looking at Tufts. (How urban is it?)

Anyway, back to topic. Hobson, good points about traditionally ag & non-ag schools.

Alrighty, one question for all current & past college students: How did you use your horsey-involvement to your advantage? (Especially at non-horsey schools)

In The Gate
Nov. 28, 2001, 06:03 PM
Fairly urban, they do have an Equestrian team, but...

Board alone is $800
Training Board is... $1400

And this would all be on top of the cost of your college education.

Valerie
~VWiles02@yahoo.com~
Valerie's home page (http://www.geocities.com/vwiles02)

linquest
May. 26, 2004, 08:31 PM
Financial Considerations?

I think there needs to be some kind of a monetary cost/benefit analysis to evaluate the choice between an elite university vs. a specialized equine college. Let's face it, most entry-level jobs (or most positions, period)in the horse industry don't pay much. Add that to your potential amount of debt before even starting your career.

For example, let's say that you plan on becoming a professional groom or barn manager, making perhaps $20K/year. It just doesn't seem to make sense to take on $45K in student loans to go to an Ivy League school when you can perhaps get a full-ride scholarship to UFindlay or VI.

I'd imagine that doing this kind of analysis would be difficult given the lack of statistics on salaries throughout the horse industry though, especially given the varied alternative compensation that is often part of the package (i.e. living quarters and food for you and/or horse, use of farm vehicle, free rides on fancy horses, etc).

Personally, I couldn't care less where my trainer/groom/BM/BO went to college or even necessarily if they went at all! I've certainly never raised the issue. After all, my Ivy League degree sure as heck doesn't mean much when I'm biting the dust! It's much more important to me to find out what level they've competed successfully at, which trainer(s) they worked with and what their other students think about them.

linquest
May. 26, 2004, 09:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Posting Trot, You hit the nail on the head. The Ivy League schools are Liberal Art colleges/ universities. Basically, they prepare you to go on to graduate school. They do not prepare you for a job/ career when you graduate. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cornell's the exception of course http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif But, as Erin noted, it may be because we're partially a state school.

Hotel Administration, Industrial/Labor Relations, and Animal Science are very practical programs within the University. The grads would be aghast if you said that they were not prepared for the work world as any other school would do, if not more so. We are equally prepared to succeed in MBA, Law, or Vet school. Preparation for grad school and going directly into the work world are not mutually exclusive.

BTW-I've witnessed my fair share of Ivy League riders (myself included http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif who couldn't ride their way out of a paper bag (none that are members here, of course http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif . Again, my opinion is that prior "on-the-job experience" is everything in the horse world.

SupaGoo
May. 26, 2004, 09:21 PM
Just go to whatever school works for you. I'm a Findlay grad and I've had a lot of people tell me they were impressed by my degree. Parents of students especially are impressed. Some people could care less...but what they don't realize is that a lot of the skills that I picked up in college are what they really like about me. I'm grateful everyday for my education and would do it over in a heartbeat.

Schools like VIC, Findlay, etc pour tons of money into their equestrian programs because that's what brings them students...a big Ivy league school has no reason to do that. Figure out what you want and then pick the schools that fits you best.

MistyBlue
May. 27, 2004, 04:22 AM
IN The Gate...I live about 15 minutes from Wesleyan...if you wanted to attend there, I can give you a list of very nice and reasonably priced barns where you can board your horse close by. (within a few miles)

For equestrian studies at colleges...if the student is planning on majoring in that field...then the school 'name' that might not be the "better" name in the business world does have the better name in the horse world. Uconn is considered average in the "wow" factor for schools..and you're not going to highly impress someone in a board room by saying you went to Uconn. Respectable, but not the "wow" factor of Brown. However...it's well known for it's above average nursing program. Graduates of Uconn's nursing program are highly sought out by hospitals and private practices and in an operating room "Uconn" has a lot more wow factor. It all depends on your major which school will have the "wow" for each person and their chosen field. If I wanted to hire a GREAT engineer...I'd look at MIT before Yale or Harvard. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Ijump2
May. 27, 2004, 06:28 AM
I went for an Econ degree because I had no interest in being a pro. Like some people have said you never know what might happen and I think it is good to be able to get a job in the "real world" if need be.

So many of you are talking about schools up north but I vote for several southern ones. You can ride all the time with great weather! Some of my favorites are Vanderbilt, Washington & Lee, The University of the South (Sewanee), and UVA. I think they all have riding teams and barns. Plus they are all in great horse country if you want to keep doing the A show circuit. Only draw back is no equine program but I think you can still be involved with horses without an equine science degree. A willingness to commit yourself fully to whatever occupation you choose is the key to success.

hunterpa
May. 27, 2004, 06:50 AM
I went to Virginia Intermont (I just graduated this May) and almost everyone I graduated with in the Equine program has a job. In fact, the people who hired me were interested primarily because I went to VI. They've had other VI grads work for them and they loved each one of them.

I wasn't a very sucessful junior rider before I went to college... actually I kind of sucked! I would never have survived the horse business if I hadn't gone to VI first, they taught me more than I could ever thank them for. I went in a mediocre rider, with my mediocre horse, not really knowing anything about the finer points of taking care of horses. I left a confident, greatly improved rider, with a greatly improved horse who wins in the hunter ring, and I am also now an ARIA certified instructor.

Without VI I would be nowhere, but it really opened up my eyes to the real horse world and now I feel ready to try and make it as an instructor/trainer.

I tried going to school for Business Administration a long time ago and it bored me to death, so I decided to do what made me happy. I think that's all that's really important anyway...

the eleven
May. 27, 2004, 06:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ponyperson:
If you really care to know, I am a sophmore, scored a 33 on my ACT, and a 1520 on my SAT, and have a GPA of 4.7.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

if that is the case, PLEASE, PLEASE GO TO A GOOD SCHOOL... you can do better than even the ones you listed in your first post.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/libartco/tier1/t1libartco_brief.php

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/natudoc/tier1/t1natudoc_brief.php

go to school and just learn for the sake of it... don't think about what you'll do with your degree. that has been my approach and my life has completely changed because of it. if i had gone to school to earn a very specific degree this would have never happened.

squeezix
May. 27, 2004, 07:12 AM
Let me ask you this...why do you feel you NEED a degree in Equestrian Studies? Did you grow up riding and being around horses? Are you going to continue riding and being around horses and horse professionals? Don't mean to bash those of you who have gone to school specifically for equine studies...but to me you can learn as much or more "in the field" than "in the classroom." OK, now this is a MOM talking...get into the best ACADEMIC school you can, which hopefully at least has a riding team. Affiliate yourself if possible with a good trainer, and learn by mentoring. By going to an excellent all round college, you will be increasing your odds for success on many levels. You are young, leave yourself open to options. Many top trainers, barn managers, grand prix riders did NOT start their careers with degrees from horse programs.

Bells
May. 27, 2004, 07:22 AM
This topic was originally posted in 2001 - I suspect ponyperson is now in college - If you are still around where did you end up going ponyperson?

woudn'tYOUliketoknow?
May. 27, 2004, 07:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fiction:
Didn't Princeton just get a equestrian team? And Penn State??
Maybe I'm confused but I'm pretty sure...
I would consider those to be "good" colleges

-----

~Princess~ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Princeton does indeed have one- they were in my zone/region at my old school...

the eleven
May. 27, 2004, 08:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ijump2:
I went for an Econ degree because I had no interest in being a pro. Like some people have said you never know what might happen and I think it is good to be able to get a job in the "real world" if need be.

So many of you are talking about schools up north but I vote for several southern ones. You can ride all the time with great weather! Some of my favorites are Vanderbilt, Washington & Lee, The University of the South (Sewanee), and UVA. I think they all have riding teams and barns. Plus they are all in great horse country if you want to keep doing the A show circuit. Only draw back is no equine program but I think you can still be involved with horses without an equine science degree. A willingness to commit yourself fully to whatever occupation you choose is the key to success. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, while Sewanee has a well respected IHSA program based on campus, I don't think it would be possible to show on the A circuit while going to school there. I don't think there are any A circuit trainers too close to Sewanee... Nashville and Birmingham aren't that far, but making the commute would have to be very hard, especially given the amount of time Sewanee students have to dedicate to studying and drinking.

If you want to go to school in Tennessee and show on the A circuit, Rhodes or Vanderbilt would be better choices.

nollekins
May. 27, 2004, 11:24 AM
"Good" schools don't have equestrian programs for the same reason "good" schools don't offer degrees in management--they are there to educate people, not to train them for a trade. It's apples and oranges. A good liberal arts education enriches a person's way of experiencing life. Confusing higher education and vocational training is a major problem with education in this country, IMHO.

Ijump2
May. 27, 2004, 12:04 PM
Your Mom

I agree with you on the Sewanee distance thing but I have friends that went there did do the A shows. They met their trainers at the shows. Now, they were not able to do a lot of them due to school work but they did get out for few. Sometimes that can be a good balance.

ccoronios
May. 27, 2004, 12:10 PM
Well, I only read through the first page+ of this thread, so others may have answered the question, which, if I read correctly, is "Why don't the BNCs have equine studies programs?"

$$$$$

The Ivy Leagues and the wannabes spend most of their money on hard-core academics and the faculty and technologies that they require. Unfortunately, very few in the ivory towers of academicia consider equine studies "hard-core academics". Some of these schools offer some sort of riding program (often off-campus) for phys ed or club activity, but [dare I imply 'all'?] they don't consider riding a "profession" on par with medicine, law and business. Nor do they consider riding a sport on par with football and basketball, which are MAJOR sources of alumni contributions.

Methinks this is the reality of the world we live in.

Hi There
May. 27, 2004, 02:10 PM
Another vote from a recent graduate, <span class="ev_code_RED">CORNELL</span>! It's a great university, Ivy league, tons of opportunities to do just about anything you want, and right next to one of the best vet schools in the country. HUGE indoor arena, very well funded equestrian and polo programs – they're official varsity sports! With credentials like yours and a love of horses, IMHO you couldn't pick a better school.

poltroon
May. 27, 2004, 02:35 PM
When I went to college I was dismayed how few schools had both real science (physics, biology, chemistry, engineering) majors and horses. There are more now.

Fact is: if you are a 4.7 student, you are smart enough to learn everything you can learn from an equine studies program on your own with a good apprenticeship with a strong professional.

I would not do an equine studies program in your shoes. Go get a degree in business or biology or liberal arts or whatever floats your boat. If you end up as an equine professional, your degree will show that you have some breadth of knowledge and experience, and it will only help you. An equine studies degree isn't going to get you a job with horses and it's not going to get you a job in any other field, for the most part. You'll get horse jobs because of who you are and the experience you've collected for yourself.

I might also add: as an amateur with a well-paying job you will most likely have better horses to ride and go further competitively than as a local professional.

nycjumper
May. 27, 2004, 02:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nollekins:
"Good" schools don't have equestrian programs for the same reason "good" schools don't offer degrees in management--they are there to educate people, not to train them for a trade. . <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's not exactly correct, a lot of very good schools offer bachelor of science degrees (in marketing, management, chemistry, etc) as well as bachelor of arts degrees.

poltroon
May. 27, 2004, 02:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nycjumper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nollekins:
"Good" schools don't have equestrian programs for the same reason "good" schools don't offer degrees in management--they are there to educate people, not to train them for a trade. . <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's not exactly correct, a lot of very good schools offer bachelor of science degrees (in marketing, management, chemistry, etc) as well as bachelor of arts degrees. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can't believe you mentioned "marketing" as a science degree. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Just to confuse you all, you can get a BS in Literature from schools like Caltech and MIT. Course, you still have to take 3 years of calculus to graduate. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

mnolen9698
May. 27, 2004, 02:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nollekins:
"Good" schools don't have equestrian programs for the same reason "good" schools don't offer degrees in management--they are there to educate people, not to train them for a trade. It's apples and oranges. A good liberal arts education enriches a person's way of experiencing life. Confusing higher education and vocational training is a major problem with education in this country, IMHO. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree 100%!!

I'd love to know where PonyFan ended up going to school.