Terri Kessler article on Towerheads? [Archive]

Inverness

Jan. 11, 2001, 10:49 AM

I hope you aren't suggesting Vogel, that it would have been preferable to scream at the kid at the ingate in an effort to teach her about sportsmanship.

Sportsmanship has to be learned and it sounds as if Ms. Kessler knew that, for her daughter, the lesson would be better taught after some time had passed.

I like that Ms. Kessler explained to her child the idea of using residual frustration as a motivator. No one becomes a successful competitive athlete without knowing how to use defeats to their benefit.

That said, I understand how the tone of the article could be subject to different interpretations. However, the key point is well taken - share your interests and loves with your children. Whether the child is tooling around on a 2 or 6 figure pony doesn't matter a whit.

Vogel

Jan. 11, 2001, 10:50 AM

I posted that I took the article as being elitist and people jump all over me!! Geez!!! Sorry but I was raised to believe that pointing out how much money you have and spend is crass, crude and in poor taste!

Inverness, I agree that the heart of the article (teaching your kid sportsmanship, showing as a family) was in the right place. But couldn't the author have been a little more tactful? Sportsmanship is sportsmanship whether you are "a privileged child on and expensive pony"( /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif ) or showing cattle at the county fair. The same point could have been made with out pointing out the child is privileged and the pony is expensive.

[This message was edited by Vogel on Jan. 11, 2001 at 02:57 PM.]

[This message was edited by Vogel on Jan. 11, 2001 at 03:01 PM.]

Meshach

Jan. 11, 2001, 10:51 AM

I thought the article was great. And it gives me one more shred of hope that you *can* balance owning horses and having children!

Canter

Jan. 11, 2001, 10:51 AM

I'm very surprised at some of the negative responses. I guess we all see things very differently. Terri's article presented a family who are professional showers - in a very honest and real way. I didn't get elitist out of it at all...anyone with a child can relate to Reed's upset when suddenly realising that she's not always going to win, nor should Terri apoligise for winning consistantly herself.

I'm very sorry that Terri will have to read some of these mean remarks. She's offered us a look through the looking glass and all some of you have done is try to break it... but of course you are entitled to your opinions, but can't they stay constructive? Sorry but comments like "Huge Ego" I consider to be a personal comment. 1

magpie's

Jan. 11, 2001, 11:01 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Sorry but comments like "Huge Ego" I consider to be a personal comment.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Policy of Truth

Jan. 11, 2001, 11:04 AM

I for one like you a a lot, and enjoy your perspective. Please know that the article wasn't taken negatively by ALL of us!

BTW, what is going on with you showing-wise now? Sorry I haven't em'd you back! It's that there really isn't too much to share about my horse as of now...just trying to get a bit of weight on him to begin his training this winter! YIPPEE!

Mazzy

Jan. 11, 2001, 11:07 AM

Vogel,
I think if you read the article closely Terri's point about money was simple to compare the before and after situation and not to throw money in the readers' face. The "before" with her husband did not involve grooms and highly paid nannies. The "after" may be more enjoyable, but the point of the article (I believe, and Terri correct me if I am wrong) was to show how one can learn with and from your children.

In answer to your original post.....I took Terri's article to be an interesting view of fitting family life into a show schedule and vise versa. I thought it was well written and made good use of self-deprecating humour.

But that's just MHO.

L Scott

Jan. 11, 2001, 11:12 AM

With the knowledge of this thread and still could not pick out the complaints the others had.

I thought it was well thought out, obviously factual, and presented great insight into yet another way to handle growing up and learning about yourself in the process.

Kerry

Jan. 11, 2001, 11:17 AM

but I kind of agree with Vogel. There were very good points made but they could have been made with out all the self-promotion. JMO /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

lauriep

Jan. 11, 2001, 11:20 AM

and can't fault Terri for presenting the FACTS of her life in order to illustrate how her life has changed since she a) got married, b)became financially secure, and c)had a child. She and Murray obviously dote on Reed, but as anyone can tell you, raising a child in any circumstances is a learning experience, and her telling the story of their personal experience in child-rearing and balancing their love of showing is very interesting and entertaining. I did not detect a single "elitist" note in the article.

Laurie

brilyntrip

Jan. 11, 2001, 12:06 PM

I don't think anything Terri said was snotty elitist or anything! How lucky that one her husband likes riding too! that at this point her daughter likes riding too! and good for that she noticed that she is effecting her daughters behavior.YOU GO GIRL!!!

Everythingbutwings

Jan. 11, 2001, 12:09 PM

would surely have the same people complaining that Terri left out the facts of her situation.

Again, a good article about combining their family with their favorite hobby. No one would complain if it was written by a less well known person showing locally about their family sharing a passion for horses.

smedley

Jan. 11, 2001, 12:31 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Sportsmanship is sportsmanship whether you are "a privileged child on and expensive pony"( ) or showing cattle at the county fair. The same point could have been made with out pointing out the child is privileged and the pony is expensive.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

At least she realizes that the child is privileged! The worst offenders in the elitism category are the privileged who fail to recognize their good fortune.

I enjoyed the article - particularly the conversation about the "brown" pony. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

B.G.M. heidi

Jan. 11, 2001, 12:31 PM

Having read Terri's article and the reponses posted on this thread I must wonder whether people are truly responding to the contents of said article or the perception of who and what Terri is and what 'elitist' privileges she is perceived to enjoy.

Yes, I can understand people's reaction to the one comment about her privileged daughter throwing a tantrum while astride an expensive pony - I suppose you could read into that singular statement a certain elitist outlook.

The reality is that Terri is well-to-do, her daughter as a result benefits from the wealth of her parents -- but why shouldn't she? Why are some intimating that Terri should apologize or be embarassed by their financial fortune; that somehow rather than enjoying the sport as a family mounted on competitive horses and ponies, her daughter should be mounted on a lame donkey?

In response to the poster who chastised Terri for name dropping, brand brandishing - she mentioned the fact that she and her husband trained with Katie Prudent. So what? She stated a simple fact.

Yes, there are parents out there who scrimp and save to outfit and mount their children; and all kudos to them. To interpret that social reality to the intimation that somehow Terri be blamed for the realities of a social hierarchy is unfair and rather mean.

React to the article - not perception. I, for one, applaud Terri's commitment to the sport as a family activity.

AHC

Jan. 11, 2001, 12:36 PM

I just read the article and I thought it was well-written, amusing and had a valid and valuable point that was made very well. I read this thread first and frankly am surprised that people had such a negative reaction to what they had read.

Like heidi, I found no brand-name brandishing, name dropping, etc. Just a cute and clever article about sportsmanship.

Well done, Terri!

Catchrider

Jan. 11, 2001, 12:41 PM

Having not yet taken the plunge of competing at a show with my young child, I'm much more inspired after reading this article. Thank you for the words of wisdom regarding this huge endeavor. I hope that I will someday garner similar fond memories and experiences by combining my family with my passion.

Inverness

Jan. 11, 2001, 12:57 PM

. . . that some folks would get their knickers in a twist about a reference to a privileged child on an expensive pony - regardless of the context.

Maybe I've spent too much time in Washington and have seen too many people crucified on the cross of an offhand remark. Whatever the reason, I read the article and was just waiting for the firestorm.

Even though the comment was made truthfully and in good humor, had I been Ms. Kessler's editor, I would have advised her to phrase that particular part of the story differently. Anyone writing for a large public audience has to be very careful and precise in how thoughts are expressed.

I did not find the article elitist in the least, but I can understand how some might take a different view.

Mazzy

Jan. 11, 2001, 12:58 PM

well said Heidi and Inverness.

nelson

Jan. 11, 2001, 01:08 PM

I totally agree that the article hits a chord in that it promotes family togetherness through showing, etc. I just think that some of the insinuations are a bit much - is it really appropriate to refer to fellow leadline competitors who are not so "priviliged" as "also-rans"? Really. That's all. Just an opinion.

DMK

Jan. 11, 2001, 01:09 PM

I thought it was a great article, and very humorous.

I suppose a person could get bent about the fact that her child is more priviliged than others, but big deal... If you have a computer and are reading the article, you are what? More priviliged than 90+ percent of the earth's population? Are we quibbling over tenths or hundreds of a percentile here? /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

It's not how much money you have, it's how you go about attending to the details of life. Teaching your child sportsmanship seems to be a good start. Learning that we set an example for our children every day of our life is an even better one!

DMK

Jan. 11, 2001, 01:12 PM

nelson, I took the "also rans" to be the kids who didn't win... it's entirely possible that they were heirs and heiresses... they were just in second place...

Amazing any one person's perceptions - I got a laugh about Reed in all her gracious glory!

Vogel

Jan. 11, 2001, 01:14 PM

How good of an example do you set when you call your child's competition an also-ran? Why not call them losers, it is the same thing and just as rude

[This message was edited by Vogel on Jan. 11, 2001 at 05:20 PM.]

Darva

Jan. 11, 2001, 01:18 PM

can someone tell me what a "also-ran" is I never herd the term befoure /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Vogel

Jan. 11, 2001, 01:23 PM

also-ran (olso-rn)

n.

1. A horse that does not win, place, or show in a race.

2. A loser in a competition, as in an election: ?had enough support to place him in the middle of the also-rans? (George F. Will).

3. One that has little talent or success: just an also-ran in the art world.

Taken from dictionary.com

[This message was edited by Vogel on Jan. 11, 2001 at 05:32 PM.]

Spunky

Jan. 11, 2001, 01:31 PM

I liked it, and I don't think it was pretentious or elitiest at all. It was very matter-of-fact and candidly set out the family's priorities. They love their child AND showing, and will find a way to show and raise a family.

Appears as though Teri & her husband do (and/or have done) a lot of work themselves, for both their horses & their family. Between Michael Morissey's article yesterday, the thread on TH's Parent's Place about "Why is it so important", and this column, I have seen many references to "rich & spoiled" juniors & amateurs who don't do any work, just show up & ride. I have seen very few people, if anybody, actually confess to this . . . ! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Maybe one of you guys can dig up the appropriate thread for me, because I must've missed it! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Of course, we can never really believe what people say on a BB, anyway, now can we??
/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

DMK

Jan. 11, 2001, 01:33 PM

Well, I suppose you wouldn't be setting a good example if it is what you actually taught your child... But I also think it is a BIG leap in logic to assume that a term used to describe her daughter's almost queenly attitude just before her big comedown in a humorous article is representative of her child-rearing philosophy, especially in light of the rest of the article.

But hey, you are entitled to your opinions, as am I. It's still allowed under the constitution, last I checked /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Hephaistion

Jan. 11, 2001, 01:41 PM

I think the moral of Terri's article was very good, and I really really liked the way to she dealt with her child.

However, I do admit to hearing just the teensiest little bit of eliteism in there, particularly where name dropping was concerned and the reference to "still winning". IMO those were unnecessary additions to a good hearted article. I suspect it wasn't meant, but I agree with the above that the editor should look out for some of that sort of stuff a little better over there. Hers is not the first article that could have used a bit of p/c editing.

I too didn't like the use of "also-rans" in this context. Everyone at the show trys just as hard regardless of your status in society.

nelson

Jan. 11, 2001, 01:53 PM

Thank you Jair. My point exactly. Maybe I shouldn't have been so harsh in the beginning, but I find this kind of tone in a lot of the author's posts on this BB as well.

Jan. 11, 2001, 02:06 PM

who ONLY gets to ride after feeding and hauling away the poop and whose schooling attire would make GM blanche, I went to the article prepared to be disgusted by the bleating of elitist privilege. Surprise, surprise! I was not offended in the slightest. Yeah, the woman has money and makes no bones about and yeah, she wins. If she was poor and winning (that may be an oxymoron), would we like her better? I didn't get the impression that she approved of her daughter's snit fit either but rather dealt with it in an appropriate manner. She and I probably have little in common and might not make good drinking buds. However, her article was humorous and to the point.

Spunky

Jan. 11, 2001, 02:06 PM

. . but here I have to disagree! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I didn't find anything offensive in the article. I did find a lot of honesty--about herself. Editing the article would have removed that aspect of her personality with which she is dealing openly and honestly.

The "also-ran" comment is probably something we can argue about & never resolve, but it was presented as her small daughter's opinion of her competitors, and it certainly wasn't derogatory -- just an example of how the sportsmanship needed to be worked on!

Disliking a particular aspect of her personality is one thing; criticizing her honesty and wanting it edited out is another.

From what I've seen of Teri's posts on this BB, I don't know that she'd take too much offense from the posts here! She seems to have a take it or leave it attitude, at least online (I've never met her personally). It may not always be likable, but it is certainly respectable.

/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Spunky

TeriKessler

Jan. 11, 2001, 02:09 PM

This has been a great experience for me! Thanks to everyone for your comments. They've helped me get to know you all so much better. I feel like part of the gang now! An honor!

To smooth VogelNelson's feathers, my use of "also ran" was in no way derogatory according to my Webster's New World Dictionary, Second Edition "[colloq.]any loser in a race, competition, election, ect." Also-ran, in my article, meaning not the first place winner of a competition. The children I refered to lost the first placing. That in no way makes them "losers". We all lose; we are not all "losers". And those children were by no means underprivileged victims of the influence of wealth. They included progeny of some of the wealthiest and most respected horsemen and industrialists in America, not struggling newcomers to horse showing, wearing bicycle helmets and holding baling twine reins.

My point about my privileged child on her expensive pony was to emphasize my committment to place values above entitlement. Neither her social position, her tailored clothes nor her well-bred pony entitle her, me, or anyone else do behave in an unsportsman like manner.

Finally, my emphasis on winning classes in the face of adverse conditions is meant to illustrate my committment to not use my family as an excuse for any obstacles I might face in life and in riding. The only person holding me back is me, and I have learned to stay the hell out of my own way. Anyone who knows me can tell you that the words "you can't" and "you'll never" issued at me guarantee that I can and I will! I certainly never want to be the sort of parent who tells their child all the things they could have done or been if they hadn't been saddled with motherhood.

Best regards,
Teri Kessler

[This message was edited by TeriKessler on Jan. 11, 2001 at 06:56 PM.]

[This message was edited by TeriKessler on Jan. 11, 2001 at 06:57 PM.]

Hephaistion

Jan. 11, 2001, 02:20 PM

We never thought you weren't a part of the gang Teri-with-just-one-r!

Glad that you took some of the criticism the way it was meant - in good faith. I assume most people don't mean to sound "personal" in their comments, but it comes out that way sometimes.

You should go read VA Trainer's chain nosebands thread if you want a good look at BB personalities!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

C&C

Jan. 11, 2001, 02:23 PM

But I think there is some missunderstanding about the also-rans. Teri explains that in lead line classes all the "runners" WIN. Therefore her daughter, not understanding that everyone won before (including those also-rans), couldn't now understand why in a judged class she suddenly got 5th instead of 1st.

Teri, I liked the article, and I also loved the information you gave for Jair's shopping trip so much I printed it out for future reference as I can never get the search function to find what I want.

C&C

Bumpkin

Jan. 11, 2001, 02:35 PM

Loved the article Teri!!
I hope you write some more.
I think Teri has paid her dues, not just on this BB, but with lovely Omar and his illness. This girl deserves the best of luck.
And of course I am hopelessly envious of her getting a husband who is also into the horses, haha
/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Cactuskate

Jan. 11, 2001, 02:51 PM

Okay guys which is it? One minute T-heads is criticized for "editing" posts as in deleting the contradictory ones.

Now you are saying they should have "edited" Teri's piece? Such that it would have altered the author's meaning or possible point.

Can't have both ways.....I say leave well enough alone. Somthings get lost in the translation.

Magnolia

Jan. 11, 2001, 02:52 PM

I liked the article.
I'm glad she talked up both her and her daughter's accomplishments. If you win, be proud of yourself! And I think it is good that her daughter is learning how to win and lose gracefully.
I think we all know how to lose well, but myself, I don't know how to win. I can't just say - "Hell ya, I kicked some butt!". It's always, oh, Nicholas saved my butt cross country, or Oh, the cooler weather made him more alert ~ always some lame excuse.
I read an article on women not being taught to accept victory as their accomplishment ~ Men brag - I got the BIG SALE! I was 4 under par! I won the Hunter Classic ~ many women would say - Oh, I got lucky and got the sale, Oh, the course was easy today, I won the Classic, but Mr. Fluffy took care of me.
Hats off to Teri for mentioning her successes in the article. We all work too hard not to be proud of our accomplishments.

PaigeHortman

Jan. 11, 2001, 02:53 PM

I think the article was great, and I give her and her husband so much credit, I just hope this thread wasnt started just to have another t-head bashing session...nelson and vogel.....I just think Teri SHOULD toot her own horn, maybe more then she did, I give her major credit for winning those classes with the kid, and she deserves it. What riders do you know live that way, you know their kids would be off with the nanny, maid, and butler, but no Teri demonstrated how awesome you can be, and raise a child at the same time, while raising the child YOURSELF, without a nanny, and still win! I think shes awesome, as is the article! Sorry you are so sour towards it Nelson and Vogel!

Paigers

Hardly there

Jan. 11, 2001, 03:38 PM

That's all I can muster right now /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Caruso

Jan. 11, 2001, 03:53 PM

why does anyone write for any publication (online or off) that doesn't PAY you for your writing?

I know the hard copy COTH does, and most other magazines do, too.

Just curious. (Yeah, I know, you don't need the money...)

Everythingbutwings

Jan. 11, 2001, 06:15 PM

That's why I wrote about our experiences with Maddie.

To keep close the thoughts that are special and important to me, that's why I wrote and still write from childhood 'till now.

The idea of NOT writing down my feelings, thoughts and experiences is impossible for me to comprehend. I hope that I have learned to be more judicious in what I send out to the general public to read, (not meaning my responses on bulletin boards, though /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif )

What prompts artists to paint or sculpt images that are not appreciated within their lifetime? The concept of the starving artist includes the author, novelist, poet or biographer.

http://www.clutter.com/maddie

Canter

Jan. 11, 2001, 06:29 PM

I'll never spell it wrong again, Ms. never at a loss for words!! *laughing* Never!

I have a few girl friends who are pros who also have families. They do the circuit all year, moving from place to place, living out of campers - trying to show for themselves and for their clients while coaching and chasing their own children. This article really hit home. I have very fond memories of one friend riding out of the jumper ring while trying to mediate a fight between her young son and daughter. What surprised me was she had to go back in for the jump-off - left in mid sentence and resumed the discussion right where she'd left off. Your article brought back memories and made me laugh. Again, thanks.

Canter /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ohnowwhat

Jan. 12, 2001, 01:18 AM

Just what is this child's social position?

Vogel

Jan. 12, 2001, 05:19 AM

Very funny Bumpkin. Ha ha. Vogel is my last name, not the brand of boots I wear. But, I'm sure that if I posted that I wore Vogel boots, I would get flamed for being an elitist. (Check out the show-bow/monogram threads for examples!)

Just like ohnowwhat, I was wondering as I was reading Teri-with-one-r's post just what she could possibly be referring to when she spoke of her child's social position. Prince William is a child with a social position.

Teri - you miss the point. I was not trying to say that the children you referred to as "also-rans" were not children of privilege. Chances are everyone of them has more than your daughter does. The point I was trying to make was that the term "also-ran", like the term "has-been", has a negative connotation and it seems bizarre to refer to anyone, let alone little children, in that fashion. If Rodney Jenkins placed second in a grand prix, would the COTH refer to him as an "also-ran", or do you think that type of reference would upset him?

I understand the point you were trying to make with your article and it is well taken. We should all, regardless of our wealth (or lack thereof) or "social position" act in a sportsmanlike way. I'm glad to see that you are on the road to trying to attain that goal. I remember a time when you seemed not-so-concerned with the feelings of fellow competitors.

Flash44

Jan. 12, 2001, 05:40 AM

I thought it was a humorous, well thought out article by someone who lives in a different world than I do! Just because Teri can afford to travel around to A shows and buy her child an expensive pony does not mean she is any better or worse than anyone else. She LOVES doing it, and is fortunate enough to be able to do it with her whole family. And her comment about sulking in the truck on the ride home had me chuckling. Sure, it did sound a bit elitist, but that was the reality of her life, and lots of people have lives like that. Her target audience was NOT the target audience of the Baltimore Sun. My little boy has started asking for a pony, and I wish I could afford to get him one! Hopefully I will be able to borrow one for the summer, but what will I do when I have to give it back in the fall? Now THAT would be a hard lesson for a child.

I think that the most important point Teri makes is, Where there's a will, there's a way. I will have my son with me at shows this summer, and won't be surprised to find myself going into the ring without a good warm up! Another good slogan, Improvise, Adapt and Overcome.

lauriep

Jan. 12, 2001, 05:47 AM

"also-rans" means the ones beaten by the winner in the competition, not "less privileged." It is not a derogatory comment, just fact.

I think I detect a note of jealousy in these negative posts...

Oh, and Caruso, there are still a few things not driven by money and one of them is creativity. We write for these websites because we enjoy expressing ourselves using the written word. I have been paid in the past and while a nice bonus, it didn't increase my enjoyment of the process in the least!

Laurie

[This message was edited by lauriep on Jan. 12, 2001 at 09:57 AM.]

[This message was edited by lauriep on Jan. 12, 2001 at 10:21 AM.]

Everythingbutwings

Jan. 12, 2001, 05:50 AM

Electric Chair

Jan. 12, 2001, 05:51 AM

Teri, I posted elsewhere - great column! Wonder if I ever met you at Sweet Briar?! When were you there?

horsenut

Jan. 12, 2001, 05:55 AM

Go back, re-read the article if you must, and see that Teri's use of the term "also-ran" is not remotely derogatory. She is NOT saying that these children were "losers", except in the purely literal sense that they did not WIN. She is NOT putting down these other kids. She is a mother seeing the world through the eyes of her daughter, and uses this point to illustrate that her daughter has some valuable lessons to learn about sportsmanship.

As far as the "privileged child on an expensive pony" comment: again, it's clear to me that Teri is well aware of the feelings of those around her. You can't show at the upper levels and not know that there is plenty of petty jealousy and back-biting to go around. Any one of you who might witness such a temper-tantrum after a class would no doubt lean over and mutter to the friend standing next to you: "Get a load of that kid. She's 5 years old and riding a pony that costs more than I earn in a year. Look at the fit she's pitching. Some kids are so spoiled." Teri's use of the phrasing she did was not "un-PC" in the least. It was a completely HONEST assessment because she KNOWS her daughter has advantages, thus making the spectacle all the more ludicrous. She knows what OTHER PEOPLE were thinking, and that's what she put into words.

Great article, Teri. I really enjoyed it and got a couple of good laughs out of it too.

TeriKessler

Jan. 12, 2001, 05:57 AM

Glad to hear your're taking the plunge, Flash!
Don't be scared, the fun times almost outnumber the completely humiliating moments!!!

Email me if you want some practical solutions to "child at horseshow" issues.
Teri

TeriKessler

Jan. 12, 2001, 06:24 AM

...a turban? 'Cause you've been reading my mind. Or my column. Whatever. To paraphrase the great philosopher Oprah <lol>, "You really get it!" /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

elizabeth

Jan. 12, 2001, 07:02 AM

Observation: People tend to get up-in-arms about other people's factual statements about THEIR OWN wealth. For example, saying "I make lots (LOTS) of money, so I can spend boatloads on showing and horses" might be a true statement. But saying that kind of thing point-blank tends to get listeners all riled up. I am not sure why this happens, but I have noticed that it does. This thread illustrates that point.

Reed was "Leadline Princess," Teri DID ride with Katie Prudent, Reed DOES have an expensive pony, Teri was winning in the ring, "the money was flowing," etc. Teri's not lying - this is all true - the money WAS flowing. But it seems that articulating these truths rubs some people the wrong way. I am genuinely curious as to why.

Inverness

Jan. 12, 2001, 07:33 AM

Are some of you moonlighting at the Senate Confirmation Hearings?

This debate illustrates beautifully how easy it is to take statements out of context and attach a significance to them that the author never intended.

Truth is one thing. Perception is often another.

elizabeth

Jan. 12, 2001, 07:48 AM

My perception was that some people were annoyed with the statements even taken IN context. Matter of fact, I was assuming Vogel and neslen and others READ Teri's article.

To comment on Teri's article without reading it would be, in my view, unfair.

Canter

Jan. 12, 2001, 07:58 AM

Teri - you MUST be a rich elitist snob. I see you haven't posted anything on the "Your Best Bargain" thread! Obviously you and your friend Ivana can afford to pay full price with your Platinum American Express cards! Sorry. Is that name dropping??? /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

-Anne

[This message was edited by Canter on Jan. 12, 2001 at 12:06 PM.]

ohnowwhat

Jan. 12, 2001, 08:48 AM

...... the word envy. Perhaps it is a tad more to the point than "jealous"... although jealous will do nicely.

The point I see presented in this particular thread is that this article was written for public viewing/consumption, and now - anyone who did not find it brilliant, entertaining, enlightening, witty, fascinating, evocative, humourous, touchy-feely (or whatever else) is supposed to NOT make any comment at all on this public forum, and go stand in time-out to boot, I suppose.

Come now. Surely one can entertain a varying/alternative opinion on a subject and not be considered "jealous" or "envious"?

Or, perhaps not. No doubt I will be advised in the strongest possible fashion in short order! LOL

Cactuskate

Jan. 12, 2001, 08:48 AM

I just now read Teri's article. What is the big problem here people. And thank those for making the distinction between jealousy and being envious.

I am envious of Teri. But it has nothing to do with amounts of disposable income.

I am envious of the wonderful relationship she has with her husband. The fact they were able to share their world of horses in such a constructive, foundation building way for so many years. I am envious.

I am envious that her husband was so involved in the care of their daughter. That he would be so active a participant in their needs and still continue to show together.

I am envious of her foresight, to take the time to take her daughter away from the madding crowd, and logically discuss with her the emotions involved in competition.

I am envious that she would then acknowledge the inner need to vent ones hostility at some point in time and give her daughter the welcome space, in the truck with mom and dad only, to truly express her emotions.

I hear alot of commentary out here from people that might be more correct wishing they had had this type of open upbringing. I know I could have benefited by it.

I don't think all the fancy ponies and TS's/Butets in the world will ever prepare any child for the real world as well as the efforts of this mother and father TEAM are doing for this priviledged little girl. God bless them.

J. Turner

Jan. 12, 2001, 08:58 AM

After working in an affluent public school and a Title One public school in which 90% of the school population was on the free lunch program, I can tell emotional angst knows no class or financial boundaries. Money does not make one immune to disaster or sickness, (i.e. -- Paul McCartney, John Jr.). I've had to work hard (and am still working) not to hold resentment for those that have the material things (read "horses") I would like.

That being said, anyone want to help me out? /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

woodbern

Jan. 12, 2001, 08:58 AM

Thy shalt not believe thy own hype!

/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

One of my favorites! Have a nice weekend, all.

stop4

Jan. 12, 2001, 09:21 AM

This thread reminds me of what happened when Heidi found out what kind of cars I have. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

I think that it is the same kind of thing as what Teri said, at least she took your comments as positive. B/c some of them were mean, especially for someone comming from the same place as Teri, and in this case the same site...

Heather

Jan. 12, 2001, 09:25 AM

Without commenting in any fashion on the article in question, I think ohnowwhat has a good point.

Disagreement or even opinion about someone or something IS allowed. Even if there is jealousy or envy or any other emotion. Opinion is subjective--thus is created by taking in all kinds of personal feeling or biases. That shouldn't make it invalid.

There is rider of some note, who I was inthe same barn as for a while. I once commented to someone that while she is a very sweet person, she is frankly pretty dumb--as in not smart. They immediately snapped back that I was just jealous because she's an heiress and has a giant beuaitufl farm and zillions of wonderful horses, etc.

I responded that while I was indeed envious of all the things she has, that in no way changed the fact that she was a high school dropout and that without her trainer to manage her schedule, her grooms to manage her horses, and her parents to manage everything else, she wouldn't be able to accomplish anything. The fact that she can't make decisions on her own and has no education makes me think she isn't smart. The fact that I am envious of her does not.

The article is in the public realm and thus open for discussion. Teri clearly has a healthy understanding of what that means and is not bothered by it, so why give up on discussion?

Baroni

Jan. 12, 2001, 09:28 AM

I thought Teri's article was great. The only thing I'm envious of is that her husband rides and shows too - I can't get my boyfriend anywhere near a horse-show. And forget about getting him on a horse! I am definitely solo when it comes to the horses.

Catchrider

Jan. 12, 2001, 09:41 AM

Hey, I have a platinum American Express card! I think you get it for paying on time, not for the amount of money in your account...otherwise they must have me mixed up with someone else /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

lillian

Jan. 12, 2001, 10:25 AM

Elizabeth: to answer your question, I was somewhat uncomfortable about the article because I was taught that there are just some things you don't discuss in public. I was raised in a fairly wealthy family and my mother would be appalled if items mentioned in this article were discussed at all. I'm not saying it's wrong or right, just the way I was raised, I guess. Speaking out loud of one's wealth and position is not considered good taste.

Coreene

Jan. 12, 2001, 10:25 AM

I just screamed with laughter when I read it. When I was little, I was known for barfing down the inside of my mom's clothes and down her back, and it simply had me it stitches.

nelson

Jan. 12, 2001, 10:27 AM

Thank you, ohnowwhat, for putting it so well.

As someone who has actaully shown against Teri-with-one-r, I am certainly entitled to my opinion of both her and her article. Thank you for defending everyone's right to their own opinion.

Moesha

Jan. 12, 2001, 10:47 AM

I read the article and found it amusing? Wasn't that the point a lighthearted look at a family showing? Maybe to some, the details of a "fancy" pony or "flowing money" seemed vulgar, but that is our belief that such things are better understated. However, everyone is individual and has their own opinion on such benign and harmless expressions as those in the article. She wasn't rallying people to anger, prejudice, or violence and simply excercised her right to true and just fair speech.

I think her article was geared appropriately to the show crowd and fit in very well with the style of such similar articles on that site. She did show "her growth" and her husband and daughter's "growth" as well. I thought it was very nice to see how they took lessons together, showed together, and worked selflessly to help each other. The vision of her husband "rushing" through his course, with her up for the Tri-color, to take the child from her to school was not one of "conceit" or "snobbish" behavior." It showed devotion, love and caring. The child vomiting on her was not exactly a photo opp for Vogue, but rather a way she turned into a lesson of what is really important and she grew as a result in her viewing of turnout. She still has good taste and her horse shines, but their is a relaxed and stressless, view for her now on the matter.

I guess, I overlooked the comments about money because that was not what interested me about her article, but rather the substantive parts that I enjoyed.

/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Magnolia

Jan. 12, 2001, 11:18 AM

Why do people think Teri is name dropping to mention riding with Katie Prudent? She was her trainer for crying out loud!
If I rode with Katie Prudent, I'd tell everyone who'd listen.
Wow, this topic is the first of the 2001 year to be nominated for Dead Horse Beating!

TeriKessler

Jan. 12, 2001, 11:35 AM

Nelson honey, you showed against me? How nice! Did'ya beat me? If so, what's your very longstanding problem? Please Email me so I can help lighten your load. This grudge has got to be killing your back. AOTKessler@AOL.com

Seriously, if I cut you off in the schooling area, or grabbed the last twinkie at the foodstand, email me and let me know, so I can apologize. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Mazzy

Jan. 12, 2001, 11:42 AM

Come on folks its Friday funny time. Head to the B+B Sing Along. Its a kumbaya moment and VTrider is out doing herself with the picture add ins.

Teri, I am very jealous of you! You have a husband that rides and holds babies. Grrrr. Could you clone him? I'll take one.

ohnowwhat

Jan. 12, 2001, 11:54 AM

I was taught exactly the same thing. Humility and genuine modesty were virtues to be desired. It did not mean you had to be a drag or that you were humourless or that you had to pretend to be at poverty's door if you were not!

Discussion about certain topics - and that most certainly included money, possessions, etc., (and ringing your own chime) - was considered crude and vulgar and unpolished. It just wasn't discussed, period.

Both above referenced attributes seem to be in short supply today in the world at large, so I assume I am just out of step with modern times. Thankfully.

Having said this, let the self-avowed "movers and shakers" of our sport have at it! Many are true legends and many more are merely legends in their own minds.

Going to ride now and think of light and airy things! Good afternoon to each of you!

nelson

Jan. 12, 2001, 11:57 AM

Sure Teri, I'll email you now. Oh, and OF COURSE I never beat you even once at a show! God forbid. But, luckily, my self-esteem isn't wrapped up in my victories or my fancy belongings. It's based in my career, friends, family and ambitions (some of which, of course, involve my riding). But, rest-assured, you never would have gotten away alive if you had gotten the last twinkie at the food stand!

Medievalist

Jan. 12, 2001, 12:05 PM

The stress level is very high on this topic. Nelson, please chill out. Teri has been nothing but courteous and friendly to you. You could do well to show her the same respect.

nelson

Jan. 12, 2001, 12:19 PM

Did you really think her last post directed at me was friendly? Please read it again. Please also read my last post. Notice the smiley face and the joke about the twinkie. No stress here.

Just so everyone knows, I have emailed Teri.

I'm sure Vogel is shocked at how crazy this thread has gotten. It's too bad that people can't have a simple opinion on this BB without everyone getting up in arms.

TeriKessler

Jan. 12, 2001, 12:25 PM

been so sweet, Medevilist. We crude, vulgar, unpolished types aren't bothered by that kind of criticism. And with all the character development instruction I've received, I really should be quite a paragon before the year's out!

Mazzy

Jan. 12, 2001, 12:26 PM

Nelson,

People can have opinions but people generally watch their choice of words and the tone they take when ripping on an individual.

And I quote you to illustrate my point:

"I read it. Well, all I can say is I am glad that Terri makes no bones about how huge her ego is! It was quite apparent from reading that article! "

That, my internet friend, was offensive and set the tone of the entire thread. An opinion it might be, but the tone and choice of words begged a response from those that support Teri and felt that she was attacked in a harsh manner.

If you don't wish to incur the wrath of those around you don't line up on the firing lines with real bullets.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have much more important posting to do about thongs, underwear lines and my sexy leather pants. Come join us on the B+B Sing Along thread and start again.

Bay Watch

Jan. 12, 2001, 12:43 PM

I thought it was a nice article. Teri sounds like a wonderful person, a great mom.

[This message was edited by muriel on Jan. 12, 2001 at 04:51 PM.]

Everythingbutwings

Jan. 12, 2001, 12:49 PM

Nelson can say all he wants about opinions but that first reply was asking for the reponse that followed. Make a remark like that and then whine about being nice /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Darva

Jan. 12, 2001, 01:03 PM

Nelson, take it from me life is to short to be mad or not like others (just ask rick) just chill and worry about yourself.

and Teri, don't be eating the twinkies at the foodstand do you want to ruin that little thong a## of yours. I think not. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Darva

Jan. 12, 2001, 01:16 PM

dont be a playa hater.

dont hate the player hate the game...

xxx
darva

Spunky

Jan. 12, 2001, 01:16 PM

Geez, guys, I really didn't think ANY of the comments made about the article were really that bad!! Certainly not enough to warrant the nasty remarks and chasms that have suddenly developed between BB posters!! Suddenly there is a Pro-Teri and Anti-Teri group!! Wassup with that????!!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Some of us liked the article, some of us didn't!! So what???? Where are the Chain Nose Bands?? That'll give us all perspective again! /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

TeriKessler

Jan. 12, 2001, 01:19 PM

especially after investing in those maribou thongs. You know, I had to have my velvet cushion recovered today because the maribou sheds all over it. Yuk!

nelson

Jan. 12, 2001, 01:28 PM

You are exactly right! People overreact like crazy sometimes!

Inverness

Jan. 12, 2001, 01:36 PM

Teri,
Since you've already been burned on the pyre of unsolicited public opinion, you may want to consider a run for political office!

Erin

Jan. 12, 2001, 01:44 PM

All right guys, let's not let this degenerate to taking sides and random sniping at people. Everyone's welcome to express opinions, and I don't think anyone has crossed too far over the line here.

We're rapidly approaching beating-dead-horse territory... can we assume the point has been made and move on?

Blinky

Jan. 12, 2001, 01:45 PM

A family that plays together stays together. I think some of her references that are causing everyone so much heartburn were used to emphasize how involved in the sport they are. It is expensive to ride but what isn't these days. You name it-golf, skiing, and even tennis. If you can afford to do it at the level you want-then good for you!

Applesauce

Jan. 12, 2001, 01:49 PM

'Nuff said. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

~Courtney~

adhock

Jan. 12, 2001, 02:13 PM

Gosh, I confess I'm a bit envious of the Kesslers. When my daughter moved into the A show world, I sold my cherished horse (my dream, since I was a child) to pay for a not so expensive but wonderful small pony for her. I only wish we could share showing together. However, when we started, I truly didn't like what I often saw among the pony riders (many of whom attended shows with trainers only). Their sportsmanship and attitudes were retched. Ribbons got thrown away. Ponies/horses disgarded a few months after purchase because they weren't "the winners." Trainers screamed and cussed (what possible benefit is that for a seven year old?). The kids couldn't tell a poll from a fetlock. As they're reaching their preteens now, many of these kids are insufferable and, in fact, represent what is, in my opinion, the worst in this sport. I decided, from the beginning, that the objective was "living well" not "winning," and I made sure that my daughter was always well supervised. Showing and riding ARE privileges, and there have many a weekend that a fight with her brother, or neglecting her chores, has resulted in a missed show. A pout can result in a time out and a missed round. Forgetting to clean tack after a long show day can result in a week with no stirrups.

Good for Teri for being right at ringside. My son hates horses so my husband and I trade off show duties and, over the years, all of the major trainers (and parents) in our zone have come to know our values quite well because we are always THERE. This year, when we finally missed a show day, my daughter was "inadvertently" rude to Archie Cox who is not our trainer: He had picked up some awards for her and schlepped them to another show just to be nice. In her haste to get to the food tent after a number of long classes and multiple catch rides, she neglected to thank him. As soon as he saw me and our trainer the next day, he brought this to our attention--saying that he knew from watching us over the years that this wasn't her normal behavior nor was this something that we would want to gloss over. He then used the opportunity of my daughter's apology to help HER understand how important appreciation is. Just a little lesson, but an important one. I have great confidence that my years ringside have been the best thing for her and now appreciate that she has all sorts of surregate parents who are committed to keeping her in line. Actually, I think that riding is far easier to learn than sportsmanship. I wish I was privileged enough to be able to afford to ride with my daughter. But I take comfort in knowing that, while the "investment" may not be returned by watching her win a gold medal, I'm sure that it will be returned in watching her become a golden person!

Teri, I thought your article was really fun and true. Aren't you lucky to have this opportunity?

PS--I think parents should be allowed to "brag" a bit so I'll use this forum to do just that, too! Tomorrow, we go to the AHSA National Meeting in Colorado Springs to receive a 2000 Horse of the Year Reserve Championship. Not the fanciest pony, not the easiest, and certainly not the one that showed every weekend to rack up points. My daughter is beside herself. We never dreamed that this was possible and she thinks that second best is just great. I will beam when she receives her award--not for her riding ability, but for her attitude, perservence, and spirit. Giving up my horse wasn't such a great sacrifice after all.

TeriKessler

Jan. 12, 2001, 02:26 PM

Wow. What a beautiful post. You can speak for me on childraising anytime! Of course you must announce your child's accomplishments. I hope "her day" was grand and memorable. Bet she's back for more of those awards!

And isn't Archie a terrific person? A "class act" since day one. Tell him I said "hi" next time you see him.

elizabeth

Jan. 12, 2001, 06:45 PM

I get your point, Lillian and Ohnowwhat, and NOW I understand why Teri's article generated such emotion on this thread. Different people were raised differently, and they bring their upbringing with them throughout life, even to the COTH BB! LOL!

Watching this thread evolve all day was interesting, because, after reading your posts, I felt like I had a better perspective of WHY posters were so diametricly opposed. Different views on what is "appropriate."

Interestingly, on the Friday Funny thread, Teri posted that "My husband is El Presidente at a biggianthuge company." I had to stop and think about that for a minute, but once I fit it into the context, it didn't strike me as arrogant at all. I think she meant it in a very irreverant way, based on her sense of appropriateness. While I am not sure I would say the same thing because I would be too afraid that people would take it in a bragging way, I understand it now that I think I understand her frame of reference. (At least in this area!!).

Taking this to my personal life, my sister's husband belches in public openly. I have always found that totally offensive - my mother raised me to believe that polite, well-raised people generally avoid belching openly in public. I cringe when my sister's husband does it. But now that I think about it, I guess my sister's husband was just not raised the same way I was. Different people, different backgrounds. There is therefore no reason for me to get mad at him or think less of him for engaging in an activity in which I would never voluntarily engage. Hmmmm. Valuable insight for me! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

B.G.M. heidi

Jan. 12, 2001, 06:52 PM

Elizabeth, you''ve clearly stumbled onto the Uber Analogy for Life - it's really all about burps and farts, those rumblings and goings-on in our bowels and upper GI tract. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Why just five minutes ago, Hans let loose a biggie, and I too had to pause and think to myself, 'hmmm, is that an expression of a poor upbringing or have we been together long enough that he's totally and completely comfortable?'.

It's really all about perspective, perception -- and I suppose what we all had for dinner.

elizabeth

Jan. 12, 2001, 06:57 PM

You crack me up!

To avoid such Tom-foolery with my hubby, I will have to set ground rules before I get married: "Sweetheart, you will never, ever belch in front of me as long as we are husband and wife."

I wonder if violation of that rule would then be grounds for annulment. . . . I guess it can't hurt for me to pose that question to the priest after mass this weekend. Better safe than sorry! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Just My Style

Jan. 12, 2001, 07:39 PM

Nothing against Teri, but you all really need to read the article in this week's COTH by Jane Slaughter. Now there is a horse show mom that I can relate to.

elizabeth

Jan. 12, 2001, 07:48 PM

I got teary-eyed on the Slaughter article. No offense to Teri, either.

pwynnnorman

Jan. 13, 2001, 03:07 AM

I didn't read Teri's article because for some reason my computer says it "tried to perform an illegal operation" and shuts the program down, BUT...

Reading these comments and then skimming the Slaughter article in COTH made me think that one nice thing about riding and showing as a family, especially as mother and daughter, might be that it bonds them in a way that, all too often, gets torn assunder by social stresses by the time the kid enters her teens.

Haven't we all known great mother-daughter partnerships in this sport? Also, as the Slaughter article implies, I think there can also be a special relationship between female trainers and their adult, female students, don't you? (Yeah, yeah, that relationship can get topsy-turvey when its a young male trainer and a female student, but that's NOT what I'm talking about now!)

Money and manners aside, there are certainly positive aspectsd to this sport in a broader, social sense. In fact, it is a shame that THAT side of the sport isn't what the public is exposed to very often. If I had a daughter and could realistically choose, I would definitely have her to take riding lessons at a barn which showed and had other students of her age rather than have her play soccer or basketball, which I think are sports that take "team work" beyond the positive and into the negative realm of "peer pressure" (on and off the court) far too often.

Sportponies Unlimited
Specializing in fancy, athletic, 3/4-TB ponies.
Shameless signature plugplugplug.

Lord Helpus

Jan. 13, 2001, 04:53 AM

My mother and I spent my childhood and teen years schlepping to horse shows with both our horses in the trailer behind us (I was taught to drive a horse trailer as soon as I got my learner's permit, so I could do the highway driving on the way home when mother was tired.)

She is now 81 and I am now 51. Mother now drives mini's in the pony pair division at big driving shows. Last summer she came out to Lexington, KY for such a show and I got to braid the mini's ---- after all those years of her braiding my ponies. (Damn those things are small -- I was braiding on my knees! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif )

Those shows way back when were great times for both of us. Nice the way things have come full circle.

Hardly there

Jan. 13, 2001, 05:04 AM

PamM
Thats so sweet /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Thanks for sharing /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

TeriKessler

Jan. 13, 2001, 05:13 AM

is right! Big Daddy likes to point out that 1n 11 years, I'll be 50 showing in the A/o's (role model: Mrs Sylvester Johnson on Superflash) and Reed will be 17. He'll be asking her to "please get on your mother's horse and make sure it's ready so she doesn't kill herself!"

I like to think of this when I'm clipping, bathing, braiding and lungeing Perfectpony. Makes me smile! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

baymare

Jan. 13, 2001, 05:15 AM

Sorry I haven't waded through all the posts, but here's one more for the record:

I thought the article was charming. It was well-written and amusing and brought back memories of struggling to do horses while nursing my twin boys. My husband did the course walk with me for my first training level event pushing the boys in a stroller the whole way-- good thing it had a good suspension--he even did the water!:D

The scene described is certainly that of wealth and privilege, but I found it heartening that the people in that scene could still be so down-to-earth and family oriented.

Canter

Jan. 13, 2001, 05:26 AM

Congratulations to yourself and your daughter. A horse show parent has to give up many things to find the time to stay ringside. But, then again, you get some many wonderful things back in return. Wonderful story. Thanks.

PamM it just goes to show, "what goes areound comes around" Lucky you!

LaurieB

Jan. 13, 2001, 05:54 AM

Canter just said it all. Yes, Adhock, PamM and Teri are lucky to have what they do, but so are the rest of us. I have resisted replying to this topic but since it hasn't faded away, I feel compelled to mention that singling Teri out as "elitist" seems rather hypocritical to me. Every single one of us on this BB has an element of priviledge in our lives or we wouldn't be here.

To those of you who are tempted to say, "But I have to work hard to pay for my lessons/horse/TS breeches!" Right, so do I. But there are plenty of people in the world that work just as hard, or harder, and use the money they make to pay for food and a roof over their heads. We here, all of us, have access to horses we love, computers, and the time to enjoy both. So let's all take a deep breath and play nice.

Just my cranky thought for a Saturday morning.

Jan. 13, 2001, 11:37 AM

I don't understand why everyone is getting all riled up about Teri's article. Her article was fun to read and interesting, and I enjoyed reading about a family that shares a passion for riding. And Reed, from personal experience, is ADORABLE! My friends and I ran into her 2x on the 4th of July at Lake Placid in our hotel, and she was very well-mannered, initiating a conversation while we all we waiting for the elevator, introducing herself and such. Later, she even wanted to join our "ice fights" out by the lake during my barn's party. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif It was very cute and she seemed to be a very nice little girl. I wish all of the Kessler's best of luck for this show season, and the rest of you guys who are pissed off about her "elitist" article need to step down and relax.

-Jackie-

SpotsNChrome

Jan. 13, 2001, 03:24 PM

Nauseating.

Snaffle

Jan. 13, 2001, 04:00 PM

Agreed SpotsNchrome, but is it the article or the "supportive" brown-nosing?

Darva

Jan. 13, 2001, 04:22 PM

I think she is Nauseated because her thong is to tight /infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

B.G.M. heidi

Jan. 13, 2001, 04:25 PM

Snaffle, what you perceive as 'brown nosing' is an indication that most of the people on this BB are nice, compassionate people who feel a sense of community and kinship with their fellow posters. Those who responded in support of Teri Kessler did so because she was unfairly attacked -- for all the wrong reasons.

Snaffle

Jan. 13, 2001, 04:34 PM

In that case, I'll express my sense of kinship and community to SpotsNChrome, and to Vogel who was similarly attacked for "all the wrong reasons."

I won't say more on this topic - it is getting too far afield from anything worth discussing.

Allyn M

Jan. 13, 2001, 05:06 PM

Teri ----- I will tell Liz Johnson that she was your hero ----- That must have been 20 years ago that she had Superflash ---- She is the Master of Foxhounds of our hunt and she still foxhunts !!!! even though she has had several knee operations ------ She is a dedicated horseperson !!!!

jch

Jan. 13, 2001, 07:40 PM

I think the part about helping your child cope with the normal emotions of disappointment and anger when they don't get judged the way they thought they would was very good. That is one of the hardest things to help a child understand, it's okay to have those feelings, it's not okay to share them with the entire show grounds. As a non-showing horse show mom, it's even harder! Thank goodness my kiddo never pulled the, "you don't understand what it's like", because she'd be right! And, it's important to remember that all kids are kids. Even the ones with the best of everything feel disappointed sometimes. I think that makes the playing field feel a little more level, not elite at all.

SpotsNChrome

Jan. 14, 2001, 04:49 AM

Ill take on the attack, by the way not into thongs, never got into that permanent wedgie feeling as one of beind sexy.

I felt the article was condescending and very selfabsortive. Unrealistic too. I have read many bits about show families and their way of life, but never how they always threw a huge birthday party at lake Placid for their boopsey, and invited all the little underpriviledged children too! And Ill tell you if my kid threw a fit receiving a green ribbon we would politly return it and give it to a more deserving appreciative child. Been there before! I believe sportsmanship doesnt start at the awards table.

The tone of the article was bad. yet I did read Jean Slaughters bit in the C, and felt quite compassionate. Somehow, even though she has a kid at the top of the ranks, her tale could be related to even someone getting into the last year of 4H!

brilyntrip

Jan. 14, 2001, 06:08 AM

Being a mom too but on a different financial strata as Terri I can still appreciate what she has written and what Adhock has written .I am having the best time with my younger daughter.She doesn't have what has been termed as "Farnley Costs A Lot"(really funny Teri!!!) but a pony I have owned but leased out to others for years who now in her later years is a "treasure ".Showing is fun but not the be all end of our lives,I am trying to raise a good human being here.She picks her ponys'feet, grooms her pony, can almost reach high enough to get the saddle on . etc etc .Like Adhock I have seen "the wretched kids" and have sworn that if my students or child act like that I'll rip them off their animals.With that in mind I try to remember that pressure to be perfect is what makes "the wretched kids" most of the time .It does take constant vigilance to raise well balanced confident kids. More power to both of these moms who are working through mother hood in their own totally appropriate ways.

LaurieB

Jan. 14, 2001, 07:04 AM

As I understand the term "brown-nosing" it has to do with sucking up to a superior in the hope of gaining favor or advancement. Maybe it's just me--or the megapainkillers I'm taking for a recent root canal--but I don't see how that could possibly apply here.

Who has anything to gain by stating an opinion that supports Teri? Unless maybe we're hoping to get hired as her grooms? (that's supposed to be a joke /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

TeriKessler

Jan. 14, 2001, 07:21 AM

Can I please ask you to not take out your discontent with me on my six year old child? It's not really very nice to refer to her as "boopsey". She didn't write a column for Ken, I did.

I'm not one of the "old timers" on this BB, but I have seen several posts requesting that participants maintain a certain level of integrity in this forum.

Thank you.

PS I see that you are a resident of Elverson. Having lived in Chester Springs at Anselma Farm, I wonder if we know each other. If not, perhaps you know Poppi and Millie MacBurney, my former neighbors at Larking Hill?

Bumpkin

Jan. 14, 2001, 08:58 AM

Oh no you blew my cover!!!
I was hoping to be Teri's groom /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif
haha

Policy of Truth

Jan. 14, 2001, 11:14 AM

I am very upset at your comment that those of us in support of TK are in ANY way "brown-nosing"!

Here's a confession: I had NO CLUE as to WHO Teri was until I met her here on the COTH! I do not show right now, and haven't for the past several years. I have no need to brown-nose. I have enjoyed sharing my life with Teri through our em's to one another, and I think she is a VERY nice person with an incredible life! I have great respect for her and respect is in no way brown-nosing!

How DARE you assume that any of us in support of her are brown-nosing!

[This message was edited by pacificsolo on Jan. 14, 2001 at 03:19 PM.]

Darva

Jan. 14, 2001, 12:52 PM

yeah how can we be "brown nosing" I dont get it it's not like she is my teacher, trainer or someone else I may want to get somthing out of. Can you clarify how we are brown nosing Teri? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

havaklu

Jan. 14, 2001, 02:50 PM

I read the article after seeing a few of the "upset" posts here.

I wasn't offended nor did I see anything presumptious about it. I thought the "mine's Brown" was adorable and believable.

And when she is referring to the child having a fit - I'ts HER kid she's talking about. I got the mental picture of a mother with a child who's acting less than "desirable" praying the earth would open... I think any parent has been in this situation albeit not necessarily at a horse show.

I also thought the "lesson" being taught is an interesting approach to dealing with "competition" in a young child. How many of you have seen children you suspect have been taught "winning is everything"? Is teaching them that winning is nothing the answer? Not really if you plan on competing I think a balanced approach is best. After all if winning is nothing then why are we even at a show?

SpotsNChrome

Jan. 14, 2001, 03:15 PM

Naw, we be them po folk here in Elverson, right near where the Amish pull them carts. But we work rightly hard, and shine up our horses good...well heck, we even went to that Devon show right there in May and got us a few pretty ribbons, a red un and a yeller un too. This year them sisters who help out, well, they worked really hard and took my ole cow horse Doc and their quarter Hoss and rode together in a family class, and darn if they dint get a white ribbin. Then we had to git home right quick to milk the cows in the mornin, but we shore had some fun that night!

Just playing wit cha.......

DebS

Jan. 14, 2001, 03:43 PM

I liked it and wasn't offended in the least.

Nice work Teri. It sounds like your building wonderful memories for your daughter.

TeriKessler

Jan. 14, 2001, 03:56 PM

Sounds like you had a great Devon! Those are very nice prizes, and you should be proud of your efforts.

I still don't understand your bitterness toward me. I hope you can someday rise above it and learn to enjoy your own sucesses without denying other people theirs.

snickers

Jan. 14, 2001, 04:20 PM

I remember hearing a few years ago about the child that "threw a fit" after the leadline.

It is refreshing to know that a discussion followed that the actions were not acceptable. A young child doesn't know better until they are taught the proper way and manys times that doesn't happen until they do it the incorrect way.

As an elementary teacher, I have seen many children with the attitude that I can do whatever I want, my parents don't care.

It is great to see a parent that spoke to their VERY young child and didn't scream at here in the middle of the mass of leadliners.

Many people witnessed that incident I am sure and each went away with a different feeling.

After reading your article I have a different feeling than I am sure my reaction was when told of the situation.

I think that some people forgot that your daughter is now ONLY 6. Having been the "leadline" princess as a child myself, I can understand the feeling of wondering why I didn't win.

My mother spent many drives home dealing with tears and still wonders to this day why I only tried my hardest when I knew I could be beaten. The best effort was reserved for those days and never the days that I could win without any effort.

I appaud ALL parents that take the time to be involved in their children's lives and take the time to try and teach them the proper way to behave. These days, far too many children are left to raise themselves and many of those children seem to frequent the equestrian scene.

Good luck and keep smiling the pony mother days have many more years to go.

Everythingbutwings

Jan. 14, 2001, 05:15 PM

TeriKessler is real and not an alter ego. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Very real and human as well.

Years ago, when the Winglet was three, we took in the Ludwig's Corner show. When I clutched his little hand and said to him "How proud those children are making their mommies" He replied "It's okay, mummy, we won't bring you to any more horse shows, they upset you too much"

I am envious of each and every mom who was able to be on the business end of a lead line class /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

havaklu

Jan. 14, 2001, 05:20 PM

Now that I've stopped choking on my soda pop.

Sounds like your "Winglet" is wise for his/her years. LOL

/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

TeriKessler

Jan. 14, 2001, 05:28 PM

Your child's a Winglet and not an Owlet? Wise little owlet.

SpotsNChrome

Jan. 15, 2001, 02:38 AM

relax

Vogel

Jan. 15, 2001, 05:01 AM

Thank you to SpotsNChrome and Snaffle for the support! I'm glad to see that Nelson and I weren't the only ones who sensed a certain tone in the article!

I'm so surprised to see how this thread has grown. Incredible that this has generated such a response.

vineyridge

Jan. 15, 2001, 07:00 AM

It's the egregious flaunting of material possessions in the face of the less fortunate that has historically led to revolutions and class warfare. That is one reason why, in many circles in this country, it is considered vulgar to talk about money, position, or the cost of one's pleasures. We have never had class differences to the extent that we have had real class warfare, although we have come darned close.

Remember that when the bad times hit, there are a lot more of us pofolks than you rich folks. If things get bad enough, class legislation will make it through in Congress and in the States, regardless of the money given to politicians by big corporations and private individuals.

It's just safer for you that way.

I shouldn't have posted this, but with the ever increasing disparity in incomes, it just seems prudent not to rouse the "proles". History does repeat itself.

Canter

Jan. 15, 2001, 07:11 AM

Oh PLEASE. The horse was beaten to death and died on Friday. Are we so bored that we have to keep rehashing this???
Let it go. I beg you.

Rosie

Jan. 15, 2001, 12:51 PM

Egads! If you're a regular poster/lurker here, you're familiar with Teri's posts and the tone of them. The story she wrote is more of the same. Is she wealthy? Seems she is. Does she know some "big names"? Apparently so. Do wealthy, well-connected mothers that attend the "A" shows sometimes have amusing tales to tell? Well, yeah. The story she wrote, (IMO) was a funny glimpse into her life and not meant to be studied as an important piece of literature.
OK. Next important topic!

B.G.M. heidi

Jan. 15, 2001, 01:19 PM

You are such a subversive and sagacious poo disturber. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

elizabeth

Jan. 15, 2001, 01:23 PM

Your name calling has nothing to do with the topic of this board. But thank you for sharing your opinion about me. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

B.G.M. heidi

Jan. 15, 2001, 01:27 PM

Wasn't aware there was a point to the thread - 8 pages long and still undetectable. You're welcome BTW. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

elizabeth

Jan. 15, 2001, 01:29 PM

At the top of the page, there is a subject line.

This one is "Teri [sic] Kessler article on Towerheads."

elizabeth

Jan. 15, 2001, 01:32 PM

Rosie - I agree. Why doesn't anyone listen to me??

"Interestingly, on the Friday Funny thread, Teri posted that "My husband is El Presidente at a biggianthuge company." I had to stop and think about that for a minute, but once I fit it into the context, it didn't strike me as arrogant at all. I think she meant it in a very irreverant way, based on her sense of appropriateness. While I am not sure I would say the same thing because I would be too afraid that people would take it in a bragging way, I understand it now that I think I understand her frame of reference. (At least in this area!!)."

(That's what I said on a prior page of this thread.)

So, Rosie, I agree with you - Teri's story just seems to be. . . "classic Teri." Different people have different personalities and backgrounds.

Some seem to think Teri's article was in poor taste - mentioning wealth is vulgar and shows a lack of class. Other's think Teri's article was funny and touching. Different people are different.

(You can all thank me now for my sagacity! And you can quote me - "Different people are different."):D /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

stop4

Jan. 15, 2001, 01:55 PM

I loved the article! I had a "brown" pony too.

Heidi~ I think I will go drive one of my "fleet" now.....

B.G.M. heidi

Jan. 15, 2001, 01:59 PM

I wish I had a fleet of brown ponies. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Lisi

Jan. 15, 2001, 02:04 PM

I think maybe Terri could have left out some things about the money/wins, etc. that her family has that not everyone does, but it was still a very good article. You can't read so much into things. I can't imagine that she would actually mean to brag or gloat about her successes, even a little.

Darva

Jan. 15, 2001, 02:10 PM

I am just wondering why Spots is telling Teri to relax? I think Teri should be telling Spots to relax just my opinion /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Erin

Jan. 15, 2001, 02:12 PM

I am willing to bet that every single aspect of this topic has been discussed at LEAST four times now. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

It's safe to say that some liked the article, some didn't... as it's a free country, we can all think whatever we like! (Wonderful, ain't it?) However, there comes a point when it's time to agree to disagree.

I think that point was back on page 3 or so... but what the heck do I know? /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Seriously, the topic is WAY past done. Let's move on.

Rosie

Jan. 15, 2001, 02:57 PM

Erin: Well sure, we've discussed the article more than any novel I remember from English Lit. but....I think we all missed an important oportunity back on page 6. Elizabeth had a nice discourse on farting and stomach sounds. Bad upbringing or just "alternative manners."

Or, here's an interesting topic. Is a "boopsey" worse than an "also ran"?
Vote now.

stonzthrow

Jan. 15, 2001, 04:38 PM

I think the point she was trying to make with her article would have been much easier for the every day rider/weekend warrior to relate to had she left out the bits about "money flowing". If the point was to say, you can have kids and still ride and show, she need not comment about her privileged life-style. Instead, she saying if you have money, you can still ride and show.

Personally, the comment about trying to be moved down two or three positions in the order of go, really offended me. Everywhere, be it in the work place (I can't come in, little Johnny has the sniffles. Find someone else.), a shop (oh, can I please go in line ahead of you, Little Princess is getting cranky), or on the street (pushing their baby carriages out into traffic to cross the street; no one would dare hit the baby!, or those insidious "Baby on Board" or "Precious Cargo" signs on Mini-Vans (driven by distracted parents who cause more accidents than 18 year old boys), people are demanding exceptions, using their child as an excuse as to why they shouldn't have to play by the same rules as those of us who don't have kids (or want them). If one more person tells me, that "since [I] don't have kids, [I] wouldn't understand" their difficulties, or since I don't have kids, it means I don't have a family, I'm going to scream! /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Personally, I'm glad that an exception was not made "in the name of the child", and that the competitors made her take her turn in the assigned order. Instead she won on a level playing field rather than her being an exception to the rules. It was an honest win.

pwynnnorman

Jan. 16, 2001, 04:28 AM

Maybe Teri wrote what she wrote as she wrote it because she was writing for a specific audience? After all, she didn't post it here. Towerheads has a distinct audience and it is not necessarily the "average riders." Different "cultures" have different standards. I think one of the problems we have with each other on these BBs is that we don't really understand where we're coming from. We interact without necessarily traveling in the same circles. As a result, we make assumptions about each other and each other's "tone" or "attitude" without really having the "data" needed to make those assumptions.

Maybe what we should all try to do more often is read (carefully?) for MEANING, and not try to interpret tone or attitude or intent or whatever.

Sportponies Unlimited
Specializing in fancy, athletic, 3/4-TB ponies.
Shameless signature plugplugplug.

Flash44

Jan. 16, 2001, 05:09 AM

Stonzthrow, your attitude is shameful. Children are a blessing and an absolute responsibility. You can't even imagine the sacrifices parents make on a daily basis for their children without giving it a second thought. If you have a job and children, you are paying for child care and/or also doing major schedule juggling trying to get the child to all his activities on time. And guess what, if "Little Johnny" has "the sniffles," he is NOT ALLOWED to go to day care. They will call you at work and tell you that your child is sick, come and take him home. And as far as shopping goes, it is illegal to leave children home alone so you HAVE to take them with you. And any parent will tell you that it takes twice as long to go anywhere when you have kids with you. It is not unusual for kids to "meltdown" when they are out running errands with their parents. Children like to run and play and explore and touch things. When you are out with them, you are constantly telling them to hold hands, don't touch that you'll break it, stay next to me, sit down, wait in line. They don't understand the whole ordeal and occasionally get very upset.

Oh, and just over the past few months, I have cancelled a trip to England ($$$, saved for 2 years to go!) because my child broke his leg a week before we were to leave. Only got back 40% of the money we spent. My exciting and glamourous New Year Eve bash? We went to a friend's house (who has 2 kids) with a few other couples with children. the kids had a pajama party and we played How to Host a Murder. At least we got out and didn't have to spend $50 on a babysitter. And I was planning on having several friends (with kids) over on Sunday to watch the playoffs (go ravens!). However, my child got the stomach flu an hour and a half before everyone was supposed to show up and threw up in the express lane at Safeway and all over me. Had to cancel the get together at the last minute.

I am thankful that I have a job where they appreciate the large amounts I bill every year, and realize that even if I take off the afternoon to take the kid to the doctors, I will be up until the wee hours of the morning making up the work. I hope that when you are old and failing, people will slow down for you as you cross the street and yeild to you as you try to drive to the store and make left turns with your right blinker on. I hope someone holds doors for you and helps you with your packages when you try to do your Christmas shopping and I hope that you earn enough during your productive years that you are not a financial burden to your family when you are old and frail and have huge medical expenses.

Maria

Jan. 16, 2001, 06:25 AM

Go Flash!!!!

Do you have a hidden camera into my life? You hit the nail on the head.

Meshach

Jan. 16, 2001, 07:07 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> You can't even imagine the sacrifices parents make on a daily basis for their children without giving it a second thought.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, but it *shouldn't* be sacrifices OTHER PEOPLE should make for YOUR children. Luckily I'm at a company where we all work on our own projects but you can be sure that it would irk me BIG TIME if I had to do other people's work because of the responsibility to THEIR children.

That's what's annoying, that some parents (not all) think that because they have children, that their time is more precious than those who don't.

I don't mean to start a child bashing thread because maybe one day even I might have children but I wouldn't expect special benefits because of that at the expense of others. And yes, I'm a polite person, I let people into my lane when I'm driving, I hold open doors, I say please and thank you /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Duffy

Jan. 16, 2001, 08:46 AM

I guess none of you have EVER left work because of a sick horse or animal. . . /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Until one has children, the love and responsibility involved cannot be fathomed. Period. I sort of remember what I was like before I had children. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

It is not unlike our fellow man who do not love animals. They cannot comprehend our feelings about them either. /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Gryphon

Jan. 16, 2001, 08:55 AM

I've often had to leave work to take one of my dogs to the vet. I cancelled a long weekend vacation recently to stay home with a sick puppy.

Other people's children must be as important to them as my dogs are to me.

Please, just don't bring the children to restaurants (the dogs are fine) /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Sleepy

Jan. 16, 2001, 08:59 AM

I'm with Meshach. I have no objection to them taking off for child, parent, animal, whatever. What I do object to is them bringing the child to work and disrupting everyone else. And no, my parents didn't take us everywhere. There are such things as baby sitters. And Meshach, have you seen that parking place in Cary 'reserved' for mothers?

Erin

Jan. 16, 2001, 09:01 AM

Guys, this thread has been to Timbuktu and back... I think it's time to let it die. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I'm not sure the parenting issues are really horse-related, but if you want to continue that part of the discussion, why doesn't someone start another thread?

Thanks.

Maria

Jan. 16, 2001, 09:01 AM

It's not that we parents want or expect people to drop what they are doing or do things for us because we have children. I think we would mostly like a little common courtesy.

Parenting is very difficult, and most of the parents I know heap enough guilt on themselves for this that and the other that they don't need other people helping them out in this department.

And in the grand sceme of things being a mother will always come first in my life, definatly over my job.

We were all children once and I would say that 99% of us have forgotten how distracting and irritating being a child can be, and not only for the outsiders looking in, but for the parents as well.

I don't like eating in a restuarant with a screaming child, but I will not tuck mine safely away at home just to spare all the childless people out in the world. How is my child to learn how to act in public if never given the chance, and for me to have the chance to teach her.

Inverness

Jan. 16, 2001, 09:06 AM

Not a problem at all Maria, but young children should be taught to behave in public in McDonald's or even Applebees or some such place.

Children who are still "learning" how to behave are not welcomed by the management or patrons of good restaurants.

That said, Erin is correct -- maybe someone should start a thread specifically about managing the demands of parenting and riding.

Magnolia

Jan. 16, 2001, 09:21 AM

I have no objections to people who need extra time off because of their kids...
but, PLEASE STAY AT HOME WITH YOUR SICK KIDS!!!!!! I used to work with this guy (he got 3 sick, 2 personal and 3 weeks paid vacation!). He'd bring his kids in the office when they were sick. One time, the poor kid had diarrhea and spent all day in the 1 restroom we had. I'm sure the poor child would have rather been home.
PLEASE REFRAIN FROM SCREAMING AT YOUR CHILD IN WALMART! it is so annoying to everyone else. NMaybe your child learned to be obnoxious from YOU! YOU are louder than the child.
If it is a restaurant with meals ove $25.00 a plate, get a sitter. My graduation dinner at a very expensive restaurant was ruined by some cretins that allowed their kids to have a food fight with a $15.00 appetizer. The parents did squat!!
If you have kids, keep an eye on them at the barn. Don't dump them off their. Make sure to ask someone to look out for them. Just because I ride there doesn't mean I have time to keep an eye on your kid. If you need me to watch for a while, please ask me. Don't just dump them and leave me in the awkward situation of being responsible for your child.
Sorry for the rant.