PDA

View Full Version : Missy Clark's Article...



Z
May. 21, 2002, 09:07 AM
Did anyone read Missy Clark's article in the new Practical Horseman? Am I the only one that think she sounded like a pompous b^$@%?

I can understand and respect her opinion, I just think she could have expressed it in a more friendly tone.

I dunno, maybe I am reading into it too much.

Z

Z
May. 21, 2002, 09:07 AM
Did anyone read Missy Clark's article in the new Practical Horseman? Am I the only one that think she sounded like a pompous b^$@%?

I can understand and respect her opinion, I just think she could have expressed it in a more friendly tone.

I dunno, maybe I am reading into it too much.

Z

TakeNote
May. 21, 2002, 09:16 AM
I have not gotten mine yet what was on it? should i even bother reading it if you say it was that bad?

buryinghill1
May. 21, 2002, 09:18 AM
/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

no comment, except... years ago a braider at Harrisburg actually FELT SORRY for the "medal" horses at North Run because they were "never in their stalls." Lessons, lessons, lessons. the braider said it was cruel how hard the horses worked, and they barely had time to pee.
Is winning everything?

Heineken
May. 21, 2002, 09:20 AM
I think, having done it myself, that it is VERY hard to make a living in this business if you TRULY put the animal first, they are just so dang expensive. There are a few that do(Laura Kraut, Louise Serio) and make it to the top but they are few and far between and eq horses are the best schooled out there...they can't have it easy!

Sunday
May. 21, 2002, 09:38 AM
Completely agree about the tone. I may no agree with some of her observations, and that's ok, but her tone made me frustrated a bit. It also made me wonder who editted it? A good editor may have been able to help a few of the lines.

The english language is absolultely amazing!

Heineken
May. 21, 2002, 09:41 AM
Is there a way to post it here for those of us who don't get the magazine?

Erin
May. 21, 2002, 09:48 AM
No, because that violates copyright laws. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

But maybe someone who has it will type in a paragraph that they feel exemplifies the tone in the article as an example.

Heineken
May. 21, 2002, 09:50 AM
Fair enough! I stopped getting it because I got very tired of the tone of a lot of the articles to be honest, I feel like it is a fairly condescending mag in a lot of ways...

Dementia 13
May. 21, 2002, 10:18 AM
Well fooey, what the heck is the article about? Now I am curious!

I never get my PH until about a month after everyone else.

Last month the magazine was good, the previous month it stunk.



"What lamp has destiny to guide her little children stumbling in the dark?"

Pixie Dust
May. 21, 2002, 10:24 AM
Are you talking about the article on turnout? I didn't notice.

Superheroes of the universe, unite!

http://hometown.aol.com/bgoosewood/index.html

Sunday
May. 21, 2002, 10:31 AM
It's 2 to 3 pages. Not even an article really. Pictures, with a paragraph on each picture. How you should fit in your saddle. Color and fit of coats. The hair thing that Z mentioned. What kind of girth to use (no nylon fleece allowed unless absolutely desperate)....

Z
May. 21, 2002, 11:07 AM
The whole issue is great. Lots of things to read for us hunter/jumper people. A+ to Practical Horseman.

BUT, her article just ticked me off a bit. I am not saying she is a bad coach, because she isn't. Her kids ride amazing, I just think she could have worded things differently. I'll post some examples a little later. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Z

LaurieB
May. 21, 2002, 11:14 AM
Funny, I read it and I didn't mind the tone at all. I really like it when PH gets people who are the tops in the field (Geoff Teal, Missy Clark) to do articles. That's when I think you're going to learn something valuable.

That said, this was pretty much a fashion piece. Interesting to read, but not something that needed to be followed slavishly. The main thrust of her advice seemed to be "whatever you do, don't stick out." Hardly a novel idea.

MKM
May. 21, 2002, 11:44 AM
now i want a copy. where in washington can i get a single copy? do they carry them at bookstores? i cant get out to any tack stores any time soon. maybe the bookstore at union?

AM
May. 21, 2002, 11:46 AM
Try Barnes and Noble. I've seen Dressage Today there so they may also have PH.

JAGold
May. 21, 2002, 11:47 AM
Molly, I still have a subscription. My issue hasn't come yet, but when it does, I'll share /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif --Jess

Heineken
May. 21, 2002, 11:48 AM
Do you guys ride together too? I'm in DC and would love more "horsey" friends in the area!

SaddleFitterVA
May. 21, 2002, 11:50 AM
One thing to remember, most of those articles are heavily edited WRT writing style, so it might not be pure "Missy Clark".

BUT, I haven't read the article, but have noticed that in the past year or so, the writing style of all the people who were writing for the magazine was pretty much the same for everyone.

Who knows...I'll have to check the bookstore because I allowed my subscriptions to all Primedia horse publications to lapse.

Mel

Pixie Dust
May. 21, 2002, 11:52 AM
hhyn,
I'm in the DC area too. Actually I have even had the priveledge to bop around on horseback with JAGold (she rocks BTW). Have you heard about the FPP gatherings?

Superheroes of the universe, unite!

http://hometown.aol.com/bgoosewood/index.html

fleur
May. 21, 2002, 11:56 AM
I didn't think it was so bad, except it was weird that she showed Maggie Jayne with her hair in a short ponytail with a ribbon and said this was accepted in the hunter ring.
Other than that, what was wrong with it?

*EMMA*

Jeb
May. 21, 2002, 11:58 AM
The snide tone must have slipped right past me. I thought the article was fairly accurate as to what is appropriate in the hunter ring. (Like I'd know anyway.)

The first paragraph starts out "you don't have to spend a ton of money to look the part in the hunter ring." (Doesn't sound too offensive there.)

Missy goes on to tell you what she thinks looks good. Again, not offensive, just her opinion.

Helmets - approved!!
Breeches - buff (as in where do you find buff breeches?)
Coat - Navy or dark grey (black is OUT, says she)
Boots - dress or field, tall as you can get and well-fitting.

OK, my A-D-D is setting in...I'm over it, but you get the idea...no black tack, braid your horse, dress right and don't act a fool. (I paraphrased all that.)

fleur
May. 21, 2002, 12:02 PM
LOL I forgot about that part /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

*EMMA*

fleur
May. 21, 2002, 12:03 PM
So as not to have fat bulging through the gaping side-vents, I would assume /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif Of course with a fitting jacket this hopefully doesn't happen to anyone!

*EMMA*

AM
May. 21, 2002, 12:05 PM
I just remembered that I have the magazine in question with me here at work. So I took a look at the article in question. I don't see the condescending attitude, but I don't ride a hunter so I may not be appropriately sensitive. I do find that some of the text is just straight forward factual and every once in a while she adds some personal dislikes like "Manes with big doorknob braids send me into orbit!" or "Colorful or chrome-plated browbands, nylon, leather in any color but brown, and circular brass nametags are all wrong--a hunter shouldn't look as if he's wearing a dog collar!" She makes each of these statements after she describes what she likes to see.

On another note, Kip Goldreyer is back and searching for a young pony to buy. This could provide quite a few interesting columns in the future.

Ben and Me
May. 21, 2002, 12:10 PM
I sensed no "snootiness" in Missy's article! She mentioned no brand names (although, I'm not sure if she could have!) and it really seemed to be the bare minimum of what she could say about rider turnout. There were little or no specific details at all-it was just s general overview.

"Well it's a marvelous night for a moondance" ~Van Morrison

rileyt
May. 21, 2002, 12:24 PM
I am (mostly) not bothered by Missy's Article. I have come to accept that most top-notch hunter trainers have uh,..."different" priorities that I do. I think the overriding message of the article is fine: Don't stand out. Be clean and neat.

But, she then proceeds to buy into most of the hunter fashion statements. That's not wrong, per se,... its certainly a realistic picture of how it is... but it conflicts with the "clean and neat is all you need" statement. Perhaps that is what some people (maybe including myself) find offensive?

E.g., no black tack, no nylon girths, no double vented coats if you're heavy, no loose ring snaffles, no rubber reins, etc.

If you really believe that clean and neat is all you need, then what is wrong with black tack? Or a loose ring snaffle?

And, she did mention one brand name... Beval. Perhaps, more than "offensive", I think it comes across a little like "Oh, you Don't need MONEY to dress right! Just by a beval sheepskin girth and you'll fit right in!"

Hello? What planet are you from?

Half of Riding is 30% mental ... no wonder there are so many bad riders /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

DMK
May. 21, 2002, 12:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeb:
Breeches - buff (as in where do you find buff breeches?)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

NO, NO, NO, NO, NOOOOOO!

"Buff" is what you must BE to look less than offensive in breeches, is what she said.

I'm sure PH just misquoted her /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Then after you are "buff," you get a pair of the Puke Green Breeches. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


"You can pretend to be serious; you can't pretend to be witty. "
- Sacha Guitry (1885-1957) *

Little Orphan Arnie
May. 21, 2002, 12:54 PM
I got my PH today too! But some of the pages got ripped from the mailbox. The only pages that seem to be ripped are the ones with Missy's article. I am so upset. I don't know how I will ever be able to handle myself in the hunter ring ever again!

"Don't you ever wonder if you took a left instead of taking a right you could be somebody different"
~DMB

spaz
May. 21, 2002, 12:57 PM
Am I the only one that actually LIKED the article?

She is doing an article on hunter turn-out. What should be expected in the A curcuit hunter ring. I thought that it was an excellent article, but of course I am a slave to fashion...what did you want her to say? "If you have a Wintec saddle, it is fine, as long as it is clean."? She's being realistic, you hear it all the time here, so don't complain. Wear what you want, and if you want to take Missy's advice, fine, and if you want to show in a loose ring bit and rubber reins, fine.

rileyt
May. 21, 2002, 01:03 PM
Realism is fine.

Realism is: "You'd better be doing more than showing up clean. You'd better have the right color tack, and the "right" gear."

But, lets not play both sides of the coin. Either clean and neat is all that's required, or there's something more.

Frankly, I think she would have been doing a disservice writing "Top Notch Hunter Turn-out", and then proceeding to tell everyone that Wintecs and rubber boots are OK.

But lets call a duck a duck.

Half of Riding is 30% mental ... no wonder there are so many bad riders /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Dementia 13
May. 21, 2002, 01:11 PM
Surely you all don't think that the judge notices whether or not you have a loose ring bit and marks you down for it?

KS and I went to the judging clinic at the VHSA awards banquet in December. Believe me, bits are the last thing on judge's minds. And these are not local judges either -- Jimmy Lee, Betty Oare, Louisa Lenehan.

And I'm sorry, but Missy Clark's little bits of "wisdom" are not the Sermon on the Mount, and frankly I could give a s*** what she says.

I'm all for being neat and tidy by the way but honestly, some of this stuff irritates the hell out of me.

No damn wonder our sport isn't taken seriously.



"What lamp has destiny to guide her little children stumbling in the dark?"

GotSpots
May. 21, 2002, 02:00 PM
But did anyone see the article in this month's USA Equestrian magazine about fashion in the show ring? It struck me as blatant advertising for a couple of brands, plus needing some good editing. At least Missy Clark's piece seemed to be less about name-dropping and more about what is deemed acceptable by her (and thus, what her students wear) in the hunter ring.

-GotSpots (just a humble eventer trying not to be a fashion disaster on her few ventures into the jumper ring.)

Dementia 13
May. 21, 2002, 02:12 PM
But I just wonder why we should care what Missy Clark deems acceptable? It seems like we are giving the power to these little people to tell us what is and isn't correct.

It makes me want to go to my next show in rubber boots with my hair loose.

Well, maybe not since my next show is Upperville.

I don't know. I guess I am feeling rebellious today.



"What lamp has destiny to guide her little children stumbling in the dark?"

CBoylen
May. 21, 2002, 02:20 PM
Keep in mind when reading PH articles that only a few of the people that are supposedly writing the article actually WRITE it. I believe Geoff is the only one I know that does his own writing. I've been around for the making of a lot of these articles, and mostly what you have is a reporter with a tape recorder, or on the other end of a phone. They ask specific questions for the technical content, and fill in the rest on their own. What you are getting is not the professional's tone, but their expertise, formatted for your consumption.

Sandman
May. 21, 2002, 02:27 PM
I disagree with the person who said the article isn't really about just looking neat and clean. The Beval's girth is the only time she mentions a specific (and expensive) brand. And, as you point out, it's because she's referring to her preferred option. But, she goes on to say that a properly centered sheepskin girth cover (cheap) is perfectly acceptable, too.
Nowhere else do I see her saying that you need to buy anything expensive (and she really doesn't say that you need to buy the expensive girth). It really is all about neat and clean, you can decide what price range you want to be "neat and clean" in. Brown tack is as cheap as black tack, a D-ring bit costs the same as a loose-ring one, or can be borrowed from a friend for free. The article is, after all, about "looking the part" so I'd hope she'd give readers the straight scoop and not send them into the hunter ring in their Wintec APs and purple rhinestone browbands.
Apparently it is info people want; look how often turnout questions are asked on this BB.

May. 21, 2002, 02:32 PM
I see no reason to diss Missy's training etc--she has trained some wonderful riders and obviously her methods have been working.

**LizW #1**
"My insurance doesn't cover PMS" --10 Things I hate about you
"You're free cheesy bread, you're free!" -- Domino's Pizza commerical

InWhyCee
May. 21, 2002, 02:41 PM
Last month it was "If you ever want to learn to canter..." and "How to Brush Your Horse, Part I; now it sounds like they're trying to sucker someone into buying new duds before hitting the Hunters. I hope not...

If it were realistic, the article would begin, "The sad truth is that some people will look down on you if you aren't sporting $200 dry-clean only breeches and a skunk helmet.... It appears that many juniors can identify more lines of shirts than they can types of fences...."
____________

"It is by no means the privilege of the rider to part with his horse solely by his own will." -- Alois Podhajsky

"Go on, Bill... This is no place for a pony."

May. 21, 2002, 02:58 PM
No No No, InWhyCee (And I think I just got your name!!! NYC! I feel smart /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ) this month was Lesson 3!! We got to learn about Finishing Touches! Yes!

And I really don't like that ponytail...

*Belen*
I always have to dream up there against the stars. If I don't dream I'll make it, I won't even get close.
-Henry J. Kaiser

spaz
May. 21, 2002, 03:11 PM
OMG that grooming section pissed me off. I couldn't believe there was a 4 page article on using a stiff brush!!!!!!!!

Chanda
May. 21, 2002, 03:27 PM
What month is this PH we are talking about? I haven't gotten May yet.

Bowed tendon: 60 days of walking and then re-ultrasound. Ug!

fleur
May. 21, 2002, 03:31 PM
June, Chanda /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

*EMMA*

Merry
May. 21, 2002, 03:52 PM
Well, here are my comments, because of course, I do have some:
1. Those of us on the BB who write professionally have often corresponded about editors. We love them/we hate them/they make us come off like Pulitzer Prize winners/they butcher our tidbits of wisdom into hamburger. So who knows exactly how the article was in its original form.
2. I totally agree with MargaretF and those of you who said judges have better things to do than ponder what sort of bit or what brand of breeches you're wearing.
3. My horses all wear dog tags on their bridles AND I'm the proud owner of a brown nylon imitation fleece girth. So there! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"Don't marry for money. You can borrow it much cheaper." - Scottish proverb

PlusTax
May. 21, 2002, 04:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Emma MHC:
I didn't think it was so bad, except it was weird that she showed Maggie Jayne with her hair in a short ponytail with a ribbon and said this was accepted in the hunter ring.
Other than that, what was wrong with it?

*EMMA*
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's how a lot of people are wearing their hair in the hunters now, I can't do mine like that because it's too long, but I've seen tons of people doing it (maggie, Cody Baird, etc...) I don't really mind it that much, it's just like how little kids wear braids /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

**Kelsey**
&
**Notoriety**
**Plus Tax**
**Clearly Canadian**
**Pavielle**
**Angel Face**

hifi
May. 21, 2002, 04:19 PM
pony tail of braids? Are they wearing this in the Equitation ring? Is this catching on or an isolated thing?

Member and co-founder Thread Killers Anonymous. Self proclaimed fashion police.

PMJ
May. 21, 2002, 04:26 PM
Did anyone find the fact that the article starts
"you don't have to spend a ton of money to look the part"
but then talks about helmet choices--what about those "European" helmets--are they less expensive than the GPAs?????

PonyJumperGRL
May. 21, 2002, 04:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SaddleFitterVA:
One thing to remember, most of those articles are heavily edited WRT writing style, so it might not be pure "Missy Clark".

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right...they probably changed the part about being anorexic so you can fit the "Eq Rider Build" and added the whole coat-vent thing...
/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

All this talk, I might just maybe have to go to the local book store and pick up a Practical Horseman /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif


http://community.webshots.com/user/wildponyjumper

hifi
May. 21, 2002, 04:32 PM
different from the GPA's?

Member and co-founder Thread Killers Anonymous. Self proclaimed fashion police.

eikcaj
May. 21, 2002, 04:47 PM
I didn't think it was so bad.

I don't think the ponytail is something that would be sen in the hunter ring (although I don't do A hunters) but I thought the overall tone was fine, blunt at the most.

My .02

just JUMP it!

bewarethemare
May. 21, 2002, 04:47 PM
Hmmm... now I remember why I let my subscription to PH run out. I've gotten the magazine for 5 years, and in the last year I've noticed a definite change in...tone...I guess you could say.

I'm glad to hear Kip Goldreyer's column is back. It was always one of my favorites....

wtywmn4
May. 21, 2002, 04:52 PM
Actually, who cares? Is anyone going to run out and change what they wear? Or how their hair is put up in the helmet? Sounds like $$$$ ringing up to me. So, in order to be a winner, you need to do all these things that are stated in the article? I don't think so. Like Merry said, sometimes whats actually said is taken with, what's that license thingie called poetic? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

C&C
May. 21, 2002, 05:39 PM
The ponytail thing is being worn in the hunters. With shadbellys no less. I really didn't mind it when I saw it though. I think we need to get out of the fashion mindset if we ever want our sport to be for the masses and not just the rich.

Neighland
May. 21, 2002, 06:16 PM
Kind of off topic but.....

I love your comment about jr's identifying more shirt brands than fence types....I was watching a clinic with jr's and young ammy's (not that I should be talking here in that respect, but I can hold my own on this sort of thing) anyway they were asked to identify 8 fences you might find in a hunt field.....any idea how many actually got more than 4 or 5??? Yes...you are correct....1 person and she struggled getting the last one. You could tell this because of the dazed and confused looks on all their faces and the "ummm's...."

SOrry to ramble but thought I would share!!

Ben and Me
May. 21, 2002, 06:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Are the European different from the GPA's? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I beleive that Missy was using "European" to refer to helmets of the GPA style, without using a brand name.

No where in the article does she say that one must have $200 dry clean only breeches. All she says is "Buff: It can go in any class". Buff can be puke green, it can be beige, it can be khaki. It can be a $3 pair or a $300 pair.

Also, no where in the article does she say anything a certain type of show shirt, riding jacket, etc. The only brand she mentions is Beval, for the girth, probably because very few companies make leather girths with good quality sheepskin backing.

She also says that she wouldn't penalize a loose ring. I also agree that D rings look better on most horses-and since Hunters are a beauty pagent, wouldn't you rather have a similar bit that is more attractive? I would...

The only thing she outright criticizes are ill fitting tack, ill fitting boots, ill fitting jackets, and name plates on bridles. George Morris (the father of our sport) also criticises brass tags on bridles, so it is not like it is a personal pet peeve of hers.

No one is forcing you to agree with her every comment (I personally love showing in my synthetic fleece girth!) but I do beleive she provided us with a basic, to the point, and informative article.

"Well it's a marvelous night for a moondance" ~Van Morrison

stop4
May. 21, 2002, 06:51 PM
The article describes exactly what you will see any winner at an A show looking like. People should read it to see what it takes to look the part... and to look the part that is what you should look like and no less.

I thought it was a great article and it is EXATLY how me and both of my horses are turned out at every show regardless of how big or small.

Marion
*Gregor* *Amalia*

spaz
May. 21, 2002, 07:38 PM
Sandstone...you wear your hair in a cute ponytail with a matching ribbon too? /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

ErinB
May. 21, 2002, 08:11 PM
/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

~Erin B #1
Visit my website (http://www.equestrianzone.com)!
"Frankly, my dear, I don't give a Spam."

Chrissy
May. 21, 2002, 08:24 PM
I for one don't depend on Missy Clark to tell me what to wear (Note: I didn't find her article offensive or haughty, but I didn't really LEARN anything) Who needs a VERY basic magazine article when I can just hop onto this BB, put in a search for "Hunter Attire" and get about 600 pages of "dos and donts" from people that compete on the hunter circuit and (95% of the time) know what they are talking about.
I figure the article is good for someone just starting out in the show world and wants to make a good impression. Also felt that the article was directed towards that group, not towards the group that actually KNOWS who Missy Clark is and can name all of her juniors and such. JMO. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

We were good as married in my mind, but married in my mind's no good. -Weezer

hifi
May. 21, 2002, 08:47 PM
I haven't read the article yet but seems like you are right. I don't need her to tell me what to wear, I do all my own explorations in that regard. I guess she needed to tell me about the latest and grossest trend. By the way my mares barn name is Chrissy.

Member and co-founder Thread Killers Anonymous. Self proclaimed fashion police.

Chrissy
May. 21, 2002, 09:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hifi:
By the way my mares barn name is Chrissy.

Member and co-founder Thread Killers Anonymous. Self proclaimed fashion police.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

..and im sure she is a beeeeeautiful, personable, non-evil mare indeed. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

We were good as married in my mind, but married in my mind's no good. -Weezer

hifi
May. 21, 2002, 09:14 PM
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO beautiful and smart and lovable. She has a coppery shiny coat even when I don't groom her.

Member and co-founder Thread Killers Anonymous. Self proclaimed fashion police.

Flash44
May. 22, 2002, 06:25 AM
Um, oxer, vertical, coop, panel, now I'm lost, hedge, bank, that d*%!n pony that keeps refusing...

ditch, aiken (whatever that is), stone wall, brick wall, log, now I'm out of ideas

And what is a rolltop supposed to simulate anyway? A moss colored log? A burial mound?

I'll tell you once more before I get off the floor don't bring me down...

sarapony
May. 22, 2002, 06:36 AM
Water

Nothing makes a person more productive than the last minute

InWhyCee
May. 22, 2002, 08:30 AM
Showhunters, ROTFLOL! I was being sarcastic, but there's always a grain (or hairball, if you prefer) of truth in sarcasm...

Uhmmm, I'll add a trakahner to the list, but I don't think I spelled it right.

"It is by no means the privilege of the rider to part with his horse solely by his own will." -- Alois Podhajsky

"Go on, Bill... This is no place for a pony."

Janet
May. 22, 2002, 09:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>... aiken (whatever that is), ...

And what is a rolltop supposed to simulate anyway? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

An aiken is what a rolltop is supposed to simulate, basically a fence with a LOT of brush in front of it.

Janet
May. 22, 2002, 09:09 AM
Post and Rail
Board fence
Gate
Ditch
Bank (up)
Drop (down)
Irish Bank (over, maybe banking the top)
Normandy bank (up and down)
Stone wall (with or without a rider)
Coop
Brush/hedge
Aiken
Fallen tree/log
Water
Wire fences (down under)
Mudbank

Scarlet 1
May. 22, 2002, 09:12 AM
No wishing well? He he

DMK
May. 22, 2002, 09:47 AM
I wonder where one finds the jumps with the wagon wheel standards? /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

And the gently swaying Boston Ferns. Where are these? I will say that when I lived in South Florida I was familiar with the Areca Palm Hazard. Ran into that on the trails as often as in the show ring. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


"You can pretend to be serious; you can't pretend to be witty. "
- Sacha Guitry (1885-1957) *

Jumphigh83
May. 22, 2002, 10:31 AM
Missy told one of the girls in this area that she is "the worst rider she had ever seen and if she wants to go ANYWHERE she is oing to need a VERY expensive hore" (to the girls face and to her parents....) Funny she got the expensive horse and the expensive extensive "training" sessions and she did reasonabley well BUT IF that were my kid and I was the parent I would have lasted there about 3 seconds after the speech. SHe is VERY tough on her horses. I got one back from a friend of mine (well known rider) whose daughter rode with MC for a time and that horse was in a bushel basket..ulcers, back sore, thin, tired..now maybe this horse couldnt take the program but you would THINK someone would have noticed and did something for the horse instead of going on and on until after the "indoors" were done! Just my humble opinion for what it's worth. Not much in the great scheme of things. All in all though she does get reults so I guess second guessing the program serves no practiacal purpose. Different srokes for different folks.

Betsy
Three Winds Farm NY

Lead, follow, or get out of the way...

jr
May. 22, 2002, 10:40 AM
Jumphigh83

It is different strokes for different folks, but like you, I have to question any program like that puts winning above the welfare of the horses. One has to wonder what you are teaching a junior rider, if the program they're in values winning above other human and horsemanship values.

baymare
May. 22, 2002, 10:52 AM
"I wonder where one finds the wagon wheel standards"...

Undoubtedly right next to the little wooden boxes with artificial flowers poking through...

InWhyCee
May. 22, 2002, 12:18 PM
In Ireland it was a trakhaner; same here?

"It is by no means the privilege of the rider to part with his horse solely by his own will." -- Alois Podhajsky

"Go on, Bill... This is no place for a pony."

Janet
May. 22, 2002, 12:23 PM
A trakhener is a solid pole OVER a ditch.

I believe it comes from the fences used to separate fields in parts of Poland, in which the fence is set into a ditch or swale.

[This message was edited by Janet on May. 22, 2002 at 03:32 PM.]

JAGold
May. 22, 2002, 12:28 PM
A vertical behind a ditch is a weldon wall. --Jess

Janet
May. 22, 2002, 12:35 PM
But I don't know what at vertical IN FRONT of a ditch would be called. Sort of like an offset oxer, it is something you would NOT see in competition, but might very well have to jump out hunting.

And you can add "oxer" to the list of jumps you WOULD find in the hunt field. Originally a double row fence used to keep oxen in (on the principle that they would just barge through a single fencerow).

goobergurl21
May. 22, 2002, 05:20 PM
i thought the article was informative and well written, but it did seem a bit condesending (is that the right word??) in a way. her main point was- "if you notice it, it's wrong" . i would think that having your hair down in a ponytail flopping around with a silly string tied around it is quite noticable but, oh well!!

PonyJumperGRL
May. 22, 2002, 05:27 PM
LOL

My trainer said one year when she went East with the barn she used to groom for, one of the barn's clients was in the work off for the Maclay. It was the LAST switch and the horse was head-bobbing lame. The rider let the horse's head go for half a second and it started trotting out lame, but with an otherwise perfect round. She got second. And that was a while ago, like in the late 80's...I'm sure it hasn't gotten much better /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif


http://community.webshots.com/user/wildponyjumper

Nikki^
May. 22, 2002, 06:25 PM
I didn't like some parts of the article. I have a nylon sheepsking girth and I think it is more practical then spending over $100.00 on a Beval one. I also didn't like that she kinda frowns on pelhams for hunters. Well, if she wants to ride my TB in a snaffle and let him drag her all over then ring then that's fine. I'll stick to my pelham. Funny, she didn't mentioned anythig about open front boots.
But the one thing I really like was how to fit a martingale and saddle fit.

http://www.dmtc.com/dmtc98/Pedigree/
May 11th, 2002...I will offically become a Microbiologist....

cabby
May. 22, 2002, 06:54 PM
I dont like the thought that the traditional look of a black helmet and hair neatly under the helmet with a hair net is going away. The whole purpose of a hair net is to catch any missing strands of hair! I guess I will have to be out of style then because I wont give into the skunk helmets!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

wondrlnd77
May. 22, 2002, 06:54 PM
Nikkibaby- I'm sure she didn't talk about open front boots because hunters aren't permitted to wear them.

DMK- For south florida, do the Iguana hazards count too?

As for the general tone of the article, My farm shows at mostly local shows and I would gladly present this article to my customers to help them dress. Like others have said, there is not one name brand mentioned. She doesn't even say to go buy the Beval girth, she just mentions that that is the one pictured. I have reread the article a few times now, and see absolutely nothing condescending in it. I would think those that are taking offense have quite a chip on their shouldar.

Ben and Me
May. 22, 2002, 07:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Funny, she didn't mentioned anythig about open front boots.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Boots of any kind are prohibited in the hunter ring-except bell boots in inclimate weather, with management permission. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Of course, they are allowed in the Eq, but aside from the pelham comment, the article seemed to focus more on hunter attire. Navy jackets and white shirts are generally worn in the bigger eq classes.

"Well it's a marvelous night for a moondance" ~Van Morrison

hifi
May. 22, 2002, 08:30 PM
I don't think Missy was being condesending at all. I guess if you don't have alot of these things it might make you feel like you are being looked down upon for not having them. I make it my mission to seek out new styles, haven't personally encountered the ponytail thing, and try to use what I observe. I suppose I could have written an article similar to this one. However I like silver spur strap orniments, yes Bumpkin, I know George would not approve lol, and I don't like name plates on the bridle. I am getting used to the GPA and the braid job on Maggy's horse wasn't so swift!

Member and co-founder Thread Killers Anonymous. Self proclaimed fashion police.

C. Harrison
May. 23, 2002, 12:17 AM
I will start by saying that I have not read or seen the article that Missy wrote for Practical Horseman, but I honestly cannot see how people can get so upset over something like this. Though I do not know Missy's entire life story, I know she came from more humble beginning than most people in this sport. She has told me stories about the donkey (seriously) that she rode for the summer when she was young. I know that she has work extremely hard to get where she is in the business today, and even gave up her own riding career (some may not know, but she is an amazing rider-watch her flat a horse at the next show you see her at) to teach people. Missy had great results with her teaching-to name a few-Courtney Donaldson, Emily Williams, Sarah Willeman, Lexi Becker, Matt Brown, Erin Ballard, Liza Towell, The Jayne kids, Brian Walker, Lauren Bass, etc., etc., (many of these people with Co-Trainers...but she also had a major hand). Now, I don't think many people are questioning Missy's training ability, but with this being said--

"Missy told one of the girls in this area that she is "the worst rider she had ever seen and if she wants to go ANYWHERE she is oing to need a VERY expensive hore" (to the girls face and to her parents....) Funny she got the expensive horse and the expensive extensive "training" sessions and she did reasonabley well BUT IF that were my kid and I was the parent I would have lasted there about 3 seconds after the speech. SHe is VERY tough on her horses. I got one back from a friend of mine (well known rider) whose daughter rode with MC for a time and that horse was in a bushel basket..ulcers, back sore, thin, tired.."

-- I find myself wondering why people think it is necessary to say that kind of thing about someone that you don't even know, especially when it is certainly not true. I have trained with Missy for three years now- the first two years just eq, and the last year everything, and have learned that she is not strictly an eq. trainer and her success has much more to do with "expensive extensive "training" sessions" as some people tend to gossip about. Missy's program is basically based on flatwork, and if you have a horse that cannot take a strong flatwork program, then North Run is not the place. My horses, among many others have excelled in this program-become fit with a nice overall muscle tone, and rarely require jumping lessons to maintain. Sarah Willeman has also had her horses with Missy for many years and it is hard to believe that horses that receive such abuse can be that consistently successful. Though many of Missy's students do have financially supportive parents and nice horses, it is a fact that Missy has taken in many working students over the years, and definitely understands that not all people can afford expensive horses, etc., and has been happy to help those people succeed despite limitations. Anyway, I don't want to feel like I need to defend anything here, I am just saying that I have heard what people say about Missy, and in being a part of her program I can say that it's not true. Missy is a very knowledgeable horsewoman and great teacher, and while there are many good trainers out there, I don't see most of them contributing like she is. I do not think in any way Missy expects what she writes to be taken as "Sermon on the Mount" or for the entire horseworld to "give a s*** what she says" I just think she was trying to be informative about something she obviously knows about.....I really have a hard time seeing what is wrong with that and how that causes such rude gossip to be thrown around.

farfel
May. 23, 2002, 12:35 AM
where are these miraculous single-vent hunt coats hiding?

My butt could stand some minimizing, but I am having flashbacks of the black 100% polyester Devon-Aire number that I wore when I was ten. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

farfel
May. 23, 2002, 12:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MargaretF:
Surely you all don't think that the judge notices whether or not you have a loose ring bit and marks you down for it?

KS and I went to the judging clinic at the VHSA awards banquet in December. Believe me, bits are the last thing on judge's minds. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gotta agree with you there!

Randy Roy's "The Judge Is Back" (revised edition of "Here Comes the Judge") is a good look at the judge's perspective.

They are just looking for the winning trip. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Sunday
May. 23, 2002, 04:52 AM
Thank you for your well thought reply. As I read where this thread was going (off the topic of the article) it made me feel very unhappy. It is nice that someone who actually rides with MC can speak up and let us understand her better.


Again, my concern with the article was only around a few lines. Of course I meant to bring my PH in so I could quote them but forogt. One line said "I hate ....". I don't remember which topic, but I am the soft spoken type that just never likes to see that word.

Kryswyn
May. 23, 2002, 06:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by farfel:
where are these miraculous single-vent hunt coats hiding?

My butt could stand some minimizing, but I am having flashbacks of the black 100% polyester Devon-Aire number that I wore when I was ten. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As always, any time you're in need of the hard/impossible to find items, EMAIL ME. Horse Country Saddlery in VA specializes in real HUNT clothing and so does single-vented jackets all the time. A single vented show coat would be a special order perhaps (unless you'd like to show in a light weight tweed /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) but it can be done for about the same price (or less) than you'd pay for a Grand Prix. There is a choice of currently fashionable lightweight cloths and the detailing is great.

~Kryswyn~
"Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo"

Kryswyn
May. 23, 2002, 06:37 AM
For those that don't know me, I am a former trainer who now works for a large independant tack store (ie NOT one of the Millers dealers).

With that explanation, let me say that NOTHING drives me crazier than to have otherwise sane, intelligent, competent adults come in and say, "My trainer didn't like the shirt I bought;" or "My trainer says I have to have a sheepskin girth, not a fleece cover;" or "My trainer says I have to have an Edgewood bridle".... /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Comments like that always make me want to ask, "How much is the trainer paying YOU to be his/her client?"

I have seen parents who sacrifice in order that their kid/s can just have a pony come in and with deep resignation pay for some brand name item that merely replaces a usuable item that the trainer doesn't care for. Adults who have stunning fashion sense suddenly cave in to a trainer's idea of what "the look" is. (And that "Look" changes to some degree every year!)

While I certainly agree that there is (and should be!) a traditionally based uniform (no! polo shirts in the hunter ring) for horse showing, I have yet to meet ONE SINGLE JUDGE who's said (and I DO ASK THEM) that they've refused to pin someone based on the rider's attire. They may not prefer the style of helmet; the color of coat or height of the boots, but 8 great fences will beat 8 crummy fences anytime, or 7 great jumps and 1 chip for that matter! A ten mover will beat an 8 mover on the flat, though a 10 mover in a snaffle WILL beat a 10 mover in a pelham (because of the possibly artifical headset that can be obtained with a pelham) regardless of what the rider is wearing.

I have the greatest respect for Kennett Square. Not only is she a very knowledgeable trainer, but one heck of a funny lady. But if I were paying her to train me, (caveat: training me at my current level of expertise NOT as a newbie) and she told me that she expected me to show up in a certain no-deviations-permitted outfit, I'd have to politely tell her I'd show up in what was clean, neat, well-fitting, comfortable, in my budget, and in my color choice. If that meant a parting of the ways, oh well. I'd hate to lose her, but there are other trainers out there. I'd expect anyone with her expertise to be able to train me to a point where I could win DESPITE my attire, not BECAUSE of it /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

And as to the article's comment about not standing out... If you're good, you should wear something to standout IMHO. Why run the risk (especially in the hack) of being confused with every other navy coated person on a bay horse? If I had a ten mover in a large division, you bet I'd wear coat of a different color (albeit still tasteful!) Again, the coat won't cause the judge to pin you if your horse can't move, but neither will he gate you for it if your horse can!

~Kryswyn~
"Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo"

Lonny'sMom
May. 23, 2002, 06:58 AM
I thought the article was well written. The tone was that of a trainer being down to earth and factual about what she thinks should be worn in the hunter ring. Everyone has their own likes and dislikes, pet peeves and so on.

I didn't mind the pony tail, but personally I could have done without the ribbon in it. But thats just my opinion!

My trainer before we moved to VA is ultra conservative. She didnt like my brown coat and colored shirts, but would not have told me to change clothes at a show either. She is a strictly navy coat, white shirt kind of lady. I however am colorful! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

~Lara

http://hometown.aol.com/larajerry/myhomepage/profile.html

pinkhorse
May. 23, 2002, 07:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rileyt:

If you really believe that clean and neat is all you need, then what is wrong with black tack? Or a loose ring snaffle?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Loose ring snaffles are unacceptable in the hunters? Is that in July or September? Jeez, fashions just come and go so quickly around here. Actually, I know that D's have been the fashion for a few years and, as someone else said, a D can cost the same as a loose ring. Well, what if your horse goes better in a loose ring and doesn't like a D. I'll tend to trust the judges more than the fashion cops on this one.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kryswyn:
though a 10 mover in a snaffle WILL beat a 10 mover in a pelham (because of the possibly artifical headset that can be obtained with a pelham) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course, any decent judge worth his or her R (or even r) can tell with a quick glance whether or not a horse is going in an artificial headset because of that pelham (or because it goes in draw reins any time it isn't in the show ring).

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by yd:
Is winning everything?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Well, when your job to produce winners it is.

wtywmn4
May. 23, 2002, 07:16 AM
Kryswyn, thank you for your post. Well said, and right on the money. We should all learn to stand up and not cave so easily...

So many times you will see a rider, decked out to the nines at a show. Their mount on the other hand, is in need of groceries. How can people miss this? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

PMJ
May. 23, 2002, 07:29 AM
Actually, there was only one thing that turned me off and that was the term "affordable" which was used in the opening, I believe, and then the--and I am groping for a word here--advocating the GPA although it was not used by name. How affordable is a $300.00 helmet that is popular because of the stripe and who wears it??? If it was superior and safer than the others I could see it, but "affordable" turnout??

Robby Johnson
May. 23, 2002, 08:11 AM
The braids were the most beautiful braids I've ever laid my eyes on. Granted, I had on rose-colored glasses, which are apparently requisite around here.

[This message was edited by Robby Johnson on May. 23, 2002 at 12:54 PM.]

Flash44
May. 23, 2002, 08:17 AM
If I am going to shell out a lot of money for a particular item of tack or clothing, I make sure I will be using it for many, many years. I paid $300 for a jacket, but it's navy blue, which will always be in style. Sure, I would have loved to have one of those beautiful new colored jackets, but what if they were suddenly to be horribly out of style? Suddenly I'd feel quite dated, and would feel like getting a new jacket.

I think Missy was trying to offer ways to spend your money well. If you are going to invest $X, you may as well avoid having to replace any of the items as long as possible, and get items that can be used in many different situations.

I'll tell you once more before I get off the floor don't bring me down...

Inverness
May. 23, 2002, 08:24 AM
Good point, Flash44. I fall off often enough that I can't be spending $300. for a helmet that I'll have to repeatedly replace /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif . I'll buy an approved, cheaper helmet (love my new "summer weight" Tipperary). The $300 is better spent on a navy coat that can do double duty at the office. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif



"Out of my mind. Back in five minutes."

Seven
May. 23, 2002, 08:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kryswyn:
For those that don't know me, I am a former trainer who now works for a large independant tack store (ie NOT one of the Millers dealers).

With that explanation, let me say that NOTHING drives me crazier than to have otherwise sane, intelligent, competent adults come in and say, "My trainer didn't like the shirt I bought;" or "My trainer says I have to have a sheepskin girth, not a fleece cover;" or "My trainer says I have to have an Edgewood bridle".... /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Comments like that always make me want to ask, "How much is the trainer paying YOU to be his/her client?"

I have seen parents who sacrifice in order that their kid/s can just _have_ a pony come in and with deep resignation pay for some brand name item that merely replaces a usuable item that the trainer doesn't care for. Adults who have stunning fashion sense suddenly cave in to a trainer's idea of what "the look" is. (And that "Look" changes to some degree every year!)

While I certainly agree that there is (and should be!) a traditionally based uniform (no! polo shirts in the hunter ring) for horse showing, I have yet to meet ONE SINGLE JUDGE who's said (and I DO ASK THEM) that they've refused to pin someone based on the rider's attire. They may not prefer the style of helmet; the color of coat or height of the boots, but 8 great fences will beat 8 crummy fences anytime, or 7 great jumps and 1 chip for that matter! A ten mover will beat an 8 mover on the flat, though a 10 mover in a snaffle WILL beat a 10 mover in a pelham (because of the possibly artifical headset that can be obtained with a pelham) regardless of what the rider is wearing.

I have the greatest respect for Kennett Square. Not only is she a very knowledgeable trainer, but one heck of a funny lady. But if I were paying her to train me, (caveat: training me at my current level of expertise NOT as a newbie) and she told me that she expected me to show up in a certain no-deviations-permitted outfit, I'd have to politely tell her I'd show up in what was clean, neat, well-fitting, comfortable, in my budget, and in my color choice. If that meant a parting of the ways, oh well. I'd hate to lose her, but there are other trainers out there. I'd expect anyone with her expertise to be able to train me to a point where I could win DESPITE my attire, not BECAUSE of it /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

~Kryswyn~
"Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well said, Kryswyn!

But I also have to think that this prevelant hunter attitude is a big reason why eventing gets so many happy converts. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

=^+^=

/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I just haven't been the same since that house fell on my sister. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

dogchushu
May. 23, 2002, 08:38 AM
Yea Inverness! Nice to know I'm not the only one who wears my coat to the office (and gets many compliments on it, I should add). I also wear my show shirts (without the collar). I love the colors and, since I bought them to be flattering to me, they look pretty sharp!

"I always wanted to be somebody, but I should have been more specific." -- Lily Tomlin

no longer a BBer
May. 23, 2002, 08:48 AM
OK. Let's stop bashing Missy's training and her riders. It was not brought up in the original method, and I'm sure Z didn't want it disscused.

Also, Robby, that was a very rude comment about Maggie doing the braiding herself. If you don't know her, don't say things like that. I know you had the smiley to say you were joking, but still.

Go Get 'Em Tiger!!!

Robby Johnson
May. 23, 2002, 09:02 AM
and it's all rolling off my back ...

[This message was edited by Robby Johnson on May. 23, 2002 at 12:55 PM.]

no longer a BBer
May. 23, 2002, 09:12 AM
Woah, someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed.

I like how some people try to act mature, and then go tell someone to suck an egg. Very nice.

Go Get 'Em Tiger!!!

Louise
May. 23, 2002, 09:28 AM
Keep on the subject please. There is not need for anyone to get personal.

---------------------------
"We are what we repeatedly do.
Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit.
Aristotle

Everythingbutwings
May. 23, 2002, 09:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I agree! In fact, it looked like Maggy actually did it herself<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hifi made the original comment and Tigger didn't go off on that members remark.

GGET, you are quite the aggressive little dickens yourself, you know.


Back on topic, <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I can understand and respect her opinion, I just think she could have expressed it in a more friendly tone.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I would love to see more people express themselves in the manner that Z ended her opening statement. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Robby Johnson
May. 23, 2002, 09:36 AM
Everyone is happy.

[This message was edited by Robby Johnson on May. 23, 2002 at 12:53 PM.]

Heineken
May. 23, 2002, 09:41 AM
Slightly off topic but RJ, I feel your pain, I awoke the other day to a NASTY personal email degrading a comment I made on one of the topics, it was solely my opinion and this individual RIPPED into me and told what a fool and an a**hole I was, oh and that I'm stupid too...People need to just read and LET GO, nothing is personal on here...

Dementia 13
May. 23, 2002, 09:47 AM
So why is it okay for Robby Johnson to tell someone to go suck an egg? Sorry, but I think that is exceedingly rude, just as I think many of jumphighs comments are beyond rude.

Anyway back on topic, I agree with kyrswynne. I would resent being held hostage by trainers telling me what I should and should not buy.



"What lamp has destiny to guide her little children stumbling in the dark?"

Robby Johnson
May. 23, 2002, 09:53 AM
so everyone will be happy and the sound of Summer's music will, again, resonate.

Robby

"People are afraid to ask for what they want; that's why they don't get what they want." - Madonna

[This message was edited by Louise on May. 23, 2002 at 01:41 PM.]

Inverness
May. 23, 2002, 09:58 AM
Robby, re your edits: LOLOLOLOLOLOL! (in a good way, of course) /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif



"Out of my mind. Back in five minutes."

Heineken
May. 23, 2002, 10:01 AM
Robby, the edits are better than the originals I think /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

So Intent
May. 23, 2002, 10:02 AM
robby, you're too funny. you crack me up.

Janeway
May. 23, 2002, 10:04 AM
I don't know, I kinda liked the originals myself /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

DMK
May. 23, 2002, 10:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wondrlnd77:

DMK- For south florida, do the Iguana hazards count too?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Only at Tropicak Park on the grass (and yes, my horse did put an 8 in a 4 stride line when one of those things bolted across the course in front of him /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif He made up for it on the line going away though. I believe we did a 3 on a 6 stride line!


"You can pretend to be serious; you can't pretend to be witty. "
- Sacha Guitry (1885-1957) *

Bumpkin
May. 23, 2002, 10:23 AM
Really!!???? /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

I could imagine Alligators, but had no idea there were Iguanas!!!

DMK glad you stayed on!!!
I would have lawn darted onto an Iguana if it was Elliot and I /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

RRB
May. 23, 2002, 10:49 AM
I've been living in a state of bliss (similar to the one Robby seems to have recently found, LOL!) after my PH subscription ran out. But all this discussion made me pick up a copy at the tack store yesterday when I was getting other things (which I selected myself, TYVM, and not at my trainer's request).

I'm still glad that my subscription expired, although I'm very happy that Kip is back and will have to henceforth read her articles while standing in line at the tack store.

The MC article seemed fine to me, when I read it as if I were the new PH target audience (i.e. someone learning to canter), and I was just starting to figure out what I might need if I wanted to do a schooling show this summer. I suppose if you read it as a person who currently shows and has everything you need to do so, then it may come off a little, "no matter what you have, you need these things instead".

Whatever.

--R

Rack me, I'm out.

onthebit
May. 23, 2002, 11:13 AM
reasons I lurk more than I post on these types of topics. An off-handed comment meant as a joke can get you a lot more than you bargained for! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif The edits are hysterical!

MKM
May. 23, 2002, 11:25 AM
I want to see Robby's unedited version! /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

InWhyCee
May. 23, 2002, 11:28 AM
Shredded in the mail as usual, but at last I got to read this scintillating article!

Anyhoo, I don't see what the fuss is about... it reminded me of one of those darling featurettes in Glamour, InStyle et al, in which they remind you, dear reader, important but oft-neglected things, like "A little black dress is always correct!" "Don't wear jeans to the funeral!" and "Nothing ruins a tight skirt like visible panty lines!"

IMHO, if you cannot properly adjust your own throatlatch (god forbid!), or think big dangly earrings are OK in the ring (my 4-H advisor would have ripped them right out of my earlobes), maybe you're NOT READY to show.

PS: I can live with ponytails, but that tatty little red ribbon looked sloppy. Just my two cents...

PPS: I want a single-vent too, but even more I want ROBBY"S ORIGINALS!
____________
"It is by no means the privilege of the rider to part with his horse solely by his own will." -- Alois Podhajsky

"Go on, Bill... This is no place for a pony."

wondrlnd77
May. 23, 2002, 11:33 AM
you'll be glad to know the Iguanas are still there, and I guess happily reproducing. We were showing on the peninsula last weekend, and my pony kids got quite a kick out of chasing them back into the lake.

HN73
May. 23, 2002, 12:37 PM
Ugh !!! I missed it all!

Go back and put back what you all said the first time. No more editing.

Its like taping your favorite show only to find out you set the VCR on the wrong channel.

***I used to have a handle on life, but it broke.***

Sam Iam
May. 23, 2002, 02:49 PM
I don't see what the big deal is here. The woman is one of the top eq. trainers in the country and she's writing the article from HER perspective. Her perspective is the big A's and clients that can afford to go to Florida every winter to live and show. Didn't you notice the palm trees in the background? She wasn't in Nowhere, Iowa. A $300 helmet is no big deal to her or her clientele - again this article was written from HER perspective.

Personally, I don't like the GPA's with the ratty ribbon hanging out the back. I don't find that ribbon in the least bit "cute". But once again, I didn't write the article Missy did. I'll keep my hair neatly tucked and hair-netted under my velvet helmet because this is a free country and I can do whatever I want. Don't you sometimes feel like the horse show world is just 8th grade all over again. My God, how petty can we be here?

The only thing I take exception to in the article is the saddle pad thing. Clearly, as Missy pointed out the pad was slipping back because she cut off the billets. Seems like a bunchy slipping pad would be uncomfortable for the horse, but once again to each his own.

Fot my fire extinguisher at the ready.

Robby Johnson
May. 23, 2002, 02:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sam Iam:

I can do whatever I want.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

SEE!!!!! You too can do the Cartmann thing!

"Whatevah! I do what I want!"

Welcome to the Cartmann Clique, Sam Iam. It's just you and me for now.

Robby

"People are afraid to ask for what they want; that's why they don't get what they want." - Madonna

Jumphigh83
May. 23, 2002, 03:22 PM
My comments are "darn rude"...I am so flattered...Thank you.... /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Betsy
Three Winds Farm NY

Lead, follow, or get out of the way...

Jumphigh83
May. 23, 2002, 03:23 PM
(only when I have a different opinion than the person who thinks I am rude! ) ROFLMAO!!!

Betsy
Three Winds Farm NY

Lead, follow, or get out of the way...

Dementia 13
May. 23, 2002, 03:29 PM
Yeesh Betsy get it right. Its Beyond Rude.

Now that I've actually read the article I didn't think it was that bad. But I do agree the braids were kind of not so good. They stuck out a bit.



"What lamp has destiny to guide her little children stumbling in the dark?"

elizabeth
May. 23, 2002, 03:32 PM
Betsy, go back to the foal throwing thread! There's nothing to see here!!

Margaret, Dear God, Woman!! Must you incite jumphigh83 when she is otherwise quietly minding her own business? /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif (tee hee!)

(Now before I am mobbed by people reminding me politely (not) that Margaret can say whatever she wants whenever she wants, let me point out that I am teasing Margaret.) /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Dementia 13
May. 23, 2002, 03:35 PM
Well Robby and I are finished, I have to incite someone.

Wow,looking back at my posts, I did get sort of fired up, didn't I?

Its the pressure of not winning this year,I tell you.



"What lamp has destiny to guide her little children stumbling in the dark?"

Colin
May. 23, 2002, 03:37 PM
Betsy

muuuuuaaaaaahhhhhh! This is SCARY! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Magnolia
May. 23, 2002, 03:39 PM
Practical Horseman, which continues to come despite that I don't pay for it! is great for inciting riotous posts on the BB. This is more entertaining than the magazine!

Hey, Ken Smith's article was good! Go former Ohio people!

The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

elizabeth
May. 23, 2002, 03:48 PM
Colin, babe, as someone who now knows both Betsys (you and Jumphigh83, that is), I assure you that if ever you two were to meet, you'd get on FAMOUSLY!

Though anyone in the vicinity should "be afraid, be very afraid!"

CraZ4Horses
May. 23, 2002, 03:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LaurieB:
Funny, I read it and I didn't mind the tone at all. I really like it when PH gets people who are the tops in the field (Geoff Teal, Missy Clark) to do articles. That's when I think you're going to learn something valuable.

That said, this was pretty much a fashion piece. Interesting to read, but not something that needed to be followed slavishly. The main thrust of her advice seemed to be "whatever you do, don't stick out." Hardly a novel idea.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just got it in the mail today and read it. To me, it was mostly just common sense (everything should be neat, fit well etc...). It didn't come across as condescending and seemed to be directed to people just starting out. The only part that I didn't agree with was the part about the hair ribbon? Is it just me, or does it look like something a 5 year old would wear at a local show? Other than that, I thought it was a pretty decent article. But hey, what do I know?

~*Katy*~
~*Don't think. Just jump it*~
~*In Loving Memory of Romeo*~
April 26, 1993-April 19, 2002

elizabeth
May. 23, 2002, 03:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MargaretF:

Its the pressure of not winning this year,I tell you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And I hate to say it, Margaret, but if you hook up with Jumphigh83, you WILL win!!!

(The woman is like some sort of weirdo lucky idol. Honestly. I try to rub her as much as possible when I'm around her to get some of her lucky dander on me. Get this, Anthony D'Ambrosio just GAVE (GAVE) her son a horse to ride. Geesh. Nobody ever gives ME a horse to ride. Oh, and by-the-way, this is the SECOND horse her son was given to ride. Some other BNT gave her son a horse to ride, too. GAVE - not "here, Betsy, try to sell this," but "here, Betsy, let your son see what he can do with it.") /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Colin
May. 23, 2002, 03:58 PM
PPP was given to me also!!!

Oh my - this is far too spooky!!!!!!!

Janeway
May. 23, 2002, 03:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by magnolia:
Practical Horseman, which continues to come despite that I don't pay for it! is.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That happened to me too! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif How long have you been getting it free? I think I got about 5 months of it free once. Kind of fun when that happens /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

elizabeth
May. 23, 2002, 05:05 PM
And Colin, I've never seen Jumphigh83 with a drink in her hand, so you two can pair up, and she can be the sober (e.g. Bud-lite-less) driver on your trouble-making excursions.

Also, Jumphigh83 has a penchant for picking on the local hunter/jumper association (you should compare your Utah threads to her CDHJC threads), so you two will have plenty to talk about. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Dear God, I can see it now: You and Betsy, Echo and Snoot, your goat and her numerous lawn ornaments . . . and years ago she actually mentioned something about wanting to get a pink flamingo to go outside the barn!!!

Anne
May. 23, 2002, 05:39 PM
I went to Books-A-Million today just to see what all the fuss was about.

I am a Virginia hunter rider. I am a classicist. I do not like skunk helmets. I really do not like that pony tail look and somehow I doubt Missy used the word "adorable". I don't find anything wrong with how the article was written, but to me it does smack of the dumbing down we have all accused PH of (which is why I let me sub lapse). Lately from what I have seen even the articles with top people are written to the lowest common denominator newbie. (Not that being a newbie is bad, but the rest of want more... substance.) Take, for example, the article "from" T Whitehead about getting a horse to the ring... hello was that not all common sense? "When your horse spooks at the portapottie and the dog, leg yield him toward it so you don't meet it head on."

The article about the Paint horse people irked me too. That belonged in Horse and Rider, the western/breed show magazine, not PH, which has always covered the AHSA segment of the sport.

For a real guide to hunter turnout, Scott Hofstetter and Kelley Farmer did a similar photo montage thing in PH a few years ago that included useful tricks like rubbing your boots with pantyhose and cutting the corners off your number so it fits your back.

[This message was edited by Anne on May. 23, 2002 at 10:48 PM.]

CraZ4Horses
May. 23, 2002, 08:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>somehow I doubt Missy used the word "adorable". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually she did. Look on page 129 under "Hair".

~*Katy*~
~*Don't think. Just jump it*~
~*In Loving Memory of Romeo*~
April 26, 1993-April 19, 2002

Ben and Me
May. 24, 2002, 06:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Actually she did. Look on page 129 under "Hair". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think they were refering to the fact that Missy did not actually write the article. Most likely she just dictated her basic rules over the phone to a Practical Horseman journalist, who then wrote the article. So, while the word adorable may have appeared in the article, it is doubtful that she actually used that word herself. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"Well it's a marvelous night for a moondance" ~Van Morrison

alfalfa
May. 24, 2002, 06:32 AM
Don't you all think that most professionals would require the magazine to send them a proof of the article before it goes to print? I would think most people would want to see the piece if it was being written for them.

PromQueen
May. 24, 2002, 06:33 AM
Doesn't Missy also help train the Jaynes too? So, if she totally hated the pony tail look on Maggie, I doubt she would be allowing her to wear her hair that way....

kd welden
May. 24, 2002, 06:48 AM
I thought this article was very good and I actually enjoyed the whole PH magazine. I think its sad that you guys keep shooting them down when, honestly, most people that get PH are not the big time show riders but people just getting into the sport or ones that don't get to show a whole lot. Yes, they do lean toward the lowest common denominator but that's not to say you can't get something from it too. I read this issue cover to cover and enjoyed the story about the Paints. It was a great story about friends who found a low cost way to fulfill their dreams and it also proved that there are other things besides A shows. AS for T. Whitehead's article, I agree that people who show a whole lot don't need to know that (although his lesson in proper lungeing is one that all of us need reminders on) but I also thought it was a great article on getting a hot horse ready. Believe it or not, many smaller trainers aren't going to tell you about hand grazing, walking or even lungeing.

And just to defend myself because I know you will shoot me down (you all hate PH)... Its not like I'm a beginner or someone who hasn't been around the block. I've trained with many of the biggest trainers in the country, shown at all the A shows and "been there, done that" in the equitation. Yes, I do know my stuff but yes, I enjoy reading and learning more and more.

By the way, anyone willing to shoot down the article on Aaron Vale? I also thought it was very good.

Robby Johnson
May. 24, 2002, 07:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MargaretF:
Well Robby and I are finished, I have to incite someone.

now now, are you admitting to baiting me yesterday?

Wow,looking back at my posts, I did get sort of fired up, didn't I?

you did. as did i.

Its the pressure of not winning this year,I tell you.

oh my. you even have a reason for it? you are a naughty girl! trying to use me as your whipping boy ... i guess we now know what it's like when things go wrong at the local s&m club! documentary voiceover: "it's critical when two individuals come together that one be master, one be servant. two servants will only result in dull silence, two masters, a bitchfight."



"What lamp has destiny to guide her little children stumbling in the dark?"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"People are afraid to ask for what they want; that's why they don't get what they want." - Madonna

Dementia 13
May. 24, 2002, 07:28 AM
Yeah baby! I miss those days at the old S&M club. Ah, what a stress reliever that was. Now I am stuck here in the boonies with nothing but the bb to help while away the time....

Whew, I am tired now!



"What lamp has destiny to guide her little children stumbling in the dark?"

Robby Johnson
May. 24, 2002, 07:29 AM
for a de-stressing smoke!

xoxo

RJ

"People are afraid to ask for what they want; that's why they don't get what they want." - Madonna

Pixie Dust
May. 24, 2002, 09:03 AM
Oh, dear, I missed all the exitment. I still don't think the article was bad, it's not like she said "get a GPA" she said they are popular and about half the hunter riders wear them these days.

Since the topic has come up, I get to say, the reason I don't sign my posts "Betsy" is because I was afraid someone might confuse me with Jumphigh. No offense, but that would really bother me.

I'll get out of the way now. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Superheroes of the universe, unite!

http://hometown.aol.com/bgoosewood/index.html

suzy
May. 24, 2002, 10:30 AM
Robby, I'm so hurt. I only just found this party, and it's winding down, the bar has been dismantled, and there are just stragglers and a few passed out under the tables. How could you have left me out, you heartless creature!!! I love to offer my opinion on magazine articles - esp. those that I haven't read. I could have contributed a lot to this party. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Dementia 13
May. 24, 2002, 10:47 AM
You and Velvet added to the mix? Help! I think the bb would have melted down.



"What lamp has destiny to guide her little children stumbling in the dark?"

suzy
May. 24, 2002, 11:18 AM
Oh Margaret, where's your sense of adventure. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif However, I'm sure that Velvet will be as flattered as I am at the thought that we *could* cause a BB meltdown. Such power! Makes me heady. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Backstage
May. 24, 2002, 11:19 AM
but one question remains: What the he!! is a double vented coat, heck I don't understand what a single vented coat is...


Oh, and Robby, couldn't you have waited on more measly day before deleting everything!!!

Oh, and in addition, those that moan about the price of a GPA but would acctually like one...I was at a local tack shop the other day and we have a look-a-like for $169 CND (thats just a little over $100 US), they ship too! Not that I would ever buy one.

"When I came in here, back in the late 50s, there was a purpose to it, but then one thing led to another and I blacked out. I mean, I can hang in there with the best of them, Sir, but somewhere in the discussion of anise and coriander and the other 15 spices you like to use to baste a turkey, I just lost consciousness." CJ- The West Wing

suzy
May. 24, 2002, 11:22 AM
Backstage, single vented coats have just one opening in the middle of the back of the jacket at the bottom. Argh. Not sure how clear that is. The double vented coats have two pleats or openings in the back - one on each side. A number of the online catalogs have photos of jackets showing front and back so that you can see the vents. I think www.dressageextensions.com (http://www.dressageextensions.com) has pictures and probably Dover saddlery as well.

Robby Johnson
May. 24, 2002, 12:02 PM
My darling! I didn't involve you because I knew you were having a difficult time unbraiding your long blonde hair!

xoxo

R.

"People are afraid to ask for what they want; that's why they don't get what they want." - Madonna

suzy
May. 24, 2002, 12:05 PM
/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif I solved that little problem days ago with the help of a chain saw and acetylene torch!

Robby Johnson
May. 24, 2002, 12:21 PM
Please!!!!

R.

"People are afraid to ask for what they want; that's why they don't get what they want." - Madonna

kd welden
May. 24, 2002, 12:41 PM
The jacket that Maggie has on in the picture is a double vent as are most show jackets. I'm not sure that they make show jackets for the hunter ring with a single vent.

suzy
May. 24, 2002, 12:41 PM
Oh Honey, I don't need to post a photo. Just imagine one big cotton ball. /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

barnie
May. 24, 2002, 03:44 PM
O.K. O.K. O.K.....So have none of the complainers ever called their friends to see what they were wearing to the party??? Is that because you wanted to fit in??? Not stand out??? Or are ya'll the ones that wear jeans to a formal because they were clean, well fitted and comfortable??? When you play with the "Big Boys" you want to look the part... and while your clothes aren't technically being judged...believe me they are Noticed...you should always want the make the best first impression you can regardless of your discipline...you don't wear shorts and flip flops to a bank job and you don't use black tack in the hunter ring... Cost aside, because there are lower priced options for every appropriate look, if it makes you feel enpowered to show up inappropriately dressed for a hunter show, have at it...just don't whine if people think you are the entertainment!!!

hifi
May. 24, 2002, 08:12 PM
are like dressage coats, with one slit down the back of the coat. Keep this party going!

Member and co-founder Thread Killers Anonymous. Self proclaimed fashion police.
Poindexter, may he rest in peace.

PonyJumperGRL
May. 24, 2002, 09:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lonny'sMom:
I thought the article was well written. The tone was that of a trainer being down to earth and factual about what she thinks should be worn in the hunter ring. Everyone has their own likes and dislikes, pet peeves and so on.

I didn't mind the pony tail, but personally I could have done without the ribbon in it. But thats just my opinion!



~Lara

http://hometown.aol.com/larajerry/myhomepage/profile.html<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree. That's why I love my trainer. I always ask her what I should get, and she always tells me to go get what I want.

I really like to please her and constantly bug her about what to get anyway. She has really good taste, and she knows quality equipment and I think she's truly in the business for the sake of the horses. (Lord knows she's not in it for the money, she breaks babies and trainers jr/ammys at wonderful prices because our pockets are too shallow to pay any more!)

I agree that anyone can have their opinions. Missy was expressing hers. I don't think she should be attacked for having preferences /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


http://community.webshots.com/user/wildponyjumper

PonyJumperGRL
May. 24, 2002, 09:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ela:
If it was superior and safer than the others I could see it, but "affordable" turnout??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



Actually, some of us DO wear GPA's for safety's sake, not for trends. The County shows have no rules against Approved/Unapproved Helmets, and I still wear mine! Why? Its cool (meaning well-ventilated), comfortable, and it fits my head.

Personally I AM SICK of you people saying this is trendy yatta yatta and they just want to fit in..Some of us actually wear these things because we believe they ARE safer. I've never had any problems with my GPA, which I've had almost a year. I had a Troxel for about 3 months, it came unsnapped on my friends (two different helmets 2X) and Internationals and Lexingtons are ROCK hard.

So stop saying we're all trend-followers! I truly believe that they're safer if they fit you right. The GPA's are equipped with all kinds of safety precautions, the Europeans were remarkably meticulous. The visors bend so you won't break your nose. They're well ventilated, comfortable, and break in to fit your head. The older versions use Carbon (that's the point of the strip) to absorb shock when you hit the ground. Now they use Titanium (which you can actually see, its netted type (like a fine, thick chicken wire)...

Nobody in this world can ever fricken stop being CADDY! You're all acting like a bunch of....TEENAGERS!


http://community.webshots.com/user/wildponyjumper

hifi
May. 24, 2002, 09:48 PM
I thought I would never say that. Yes, I am doing it for saftey and I enjoy being in fashion. It just shows that I am current, in the know and up to date. All my life, I was the nerd. I had the funky jacket, the weardo looking purple braids and the very weard, never in the ribbons, horse. As I have matured into adulthood and am able to buy my own stuff, I want to look the best. There was a time I didn't care. Now I care and I want to look feel and ride the best that I can. It makes me feel good about myself. Not that I have paid alot for all this stuff. I guess I just don't want to be that nerd that I know they made fun of. Face it, I was a disaster from the get go and don't want that for myself. Nuf rambling!

Member and co-founder Thread Killers Anonymous. Self proclaimed fashion police.
Poindexter, may he rest in peace.

Duffy
May. 24, 2002, 09:53 PM
The GPA was the best fitting and most comfortable helmet for my daughter. When you start thinking about your daughter's head/safety versus $300 in the scheme of horsey expenses, it really doesn't amount to much, imo.

Bumpkin
May. 24, 2002, 09:54 PM
Good For You Hifi!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Duffy as you know after I purchased my GPA I felt like such a hypocrite, that I ordered one for the Bumpkinette /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

When are you getting yours now? hehe /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

hifi
May. 24, 2002, 09:59 PM
now that I got it to feel good with the tags still on, should I go velvet or ultrasuede? The velvet just looks loud, the ultrasuede looks muted, less noticable. have you seen alot of velvet around?

Member and co-founder Thread Killers Anonymous. Self proclaimed fashion police.
Poindexter, may he rest in peace.

Duffy
May. 24, 2002, 10:06 PM
I got my daughter the velvet one and it looks very nice, imo, vents and all! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bumpkin, my next helmet WILL be an approved. I'm not sure when that will be or what kind I will buy. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bumpkin
May. 24, 2002, 10:07 PM
In the Hunter ring yes.
Lots of velvet.
In fact, this is just a thought, when I see the non velvet in the Hunters, I think they bought theirs pre velvet, or just could not get a velvet one. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Go with velvet Hifi.

lowroller
May. 25, 2002, 07:49 AM
I finally got my PH in the mail, and I thought the article was pretty mundane. You guys had me geared up for something really bad!

The ponytail is sort of ditzy looking, but look on the bright side, at least she isn't supporting eyebrow rings or some of the other gross things juniors like.

I liked the fact that the tack (saddle esp.) looked worn and well used, and not like the latest $$$ thing had been plunked on the horse for a photo shoot.

And dark jackets do last forever. I unearthed my dark grey jacket of the 80's to start showing again after a 15 year break (I have a picture on my wall of me wearing it in 1984) - it looks/fits great, people have asked where I got it (It is depressing that my boobs never grew, but I must look on the bright side, neither did my ass..).

green4gold
May. 25, 2002, 07:51 AM
I think it was fine, she is just opinionated about what looks ok for big eq. classes.

I also was surprised about her saying ponytails were ok, I personally think one always looks better with hair neatly tucked under the helmet. IMO, the ponytail reminds me of a casual backyard schooling show.

It's her opinion, I guess we're all entitled to that. I just didn't get any pompus tone to it.
/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

ClemsonGraduateRider
May. 25, 2002, 03:44 PM
agreed that neither myself or any of her other students would ever be caught dead in the ring with a pony tail sticking out the backs of our helmets!! Are you kidding me?? Ribbons in the hair went out with the short stirrup classes (and the sorority rush season!! LOL /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif ). I mean really - is a ponytail coming out the back of your helmet with a shirt matching bow really considered classic and conservative (what I consider hunter turnout should be)?? Talk about fashion trends - here someone goes, starting a new one!!

If you need to keep your hair out of your helmet to make it fit right you need to get another size that includes the hair on your head!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

- - - - - -
"We learn from history that we do not learn from history." ~ George Bernard Shaw

findeight
May. 25, 2002, 04:00 PM
I guess some of the thicker haired Jrs, as well as Adults have had some problem getting a good fit versus getting the hair up in it too. They have chosen the better fit and figured out something else to do with the hair.

The Horse World. 2 people, 3 opinions. That's the way it is.

hifi
May. 25, 2002, 05:41 PM
braid my hair in two sections on each side and pull them behind my head and pull them up and pin them. Throw a hair net over it and voila, hair out of the way.

Member and co-founder Thread Killers Anonymous. Self proclaimed fashion police.
Poindexter, may he rest in peace.

Heather Dobbs
May. 25, 2002, 08:06 PM
hmmm, i am now going to cancel my order for a new custom black show coat(won't my mother be pleased), and show more often in my buff breeches, rather than puke green. and i LOVE the ponytail look...too bad i'm not allowed to wear my hair that way /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif and i REALLY care what Missy Clark has to say...she's a great trainer who obviously knows what she's talking about. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif can't wait til i get my new PH magazine!

~*~it's all good...and i'm all that~*~

*~*DeSpErAtElY sEeKiNg An Eq HoRsE*~*

Jamie Taylor
May. 25, 2002, 10:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by findeight:
I guess some of the thicker haired Jrs, as well as Adults have had some problem getting a good fit versus getting the hair up in it too. They have chosen the better fit and figured out something else to do with the hair.

The Horse World. 2 people, 3 opinions. That's the way it is.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I don't know, I am not maggie, but my hair is about as thick as hair gets, and it fits wonderfully in the GPA...

"Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out alive." - Van Wilder
"You can pick your nose and pick your friends, but you can't wipe your friends on the couch."

AAJumper
May. 26, 2002, 09:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Z:
Did anyone read Missy Clark's article in the new Practical Horseman? Am I the only one that think she sounded like a pompous b^$@%?

I can understand and respect her opinion, I just think she could have expressed it in a more friendly tone.

I dunno, maybe I am reading into it too much.

Z<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I finally got my issue this weekend. I didn't see anything pompous in the article at all, and I didn't find the tone unfriendly. I just saw it for what it was...an article about what is "in" for hunters these days. For most of us here I think, it didn't really say anything we didn't already know (use a shaped pad, brown tack, etc). But I could see how it would be helpful for those who are just starting out and don't want to look out of place. And yes, there are some things that not everyone is going to agree with (like the nylon girth issue), but this is the opinion of a top trainer going to the top shows. Those who want to follow her advice, fine, if you don't want to, that's fine too.

visit www.victorianfarms.com (http://www.victorianfarms.com)

hifi
May. 26, 2002, 12:57 PM
none too happy about the hair out thing. She just wants to see it in the net, doesn't have to be all the way up. However she said she liked my GPA after saying she didn't. I guess she is getting used to the look.

Member and co-founder Thread Killers Anonymous. Self proclaimed fashion police.
Poindexter, may he rest in peace.

Weatherford
May. 26, 2002, 02:01 PM
The real irony of the whole pigtail out look is that that has been BANNED in ENGLAND for all riders - The hair now has to be up - they say it is a safety issue.... There was an article about it is Horse & Hound last year...

/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Heather Dobbs
May. 26, 2002, 04:09 PM
why is it unsafe?

~*~it's all good...and i'm all that~*~

*~*DeSpErAtElY sEeKiNg An Eq HoRsE*~*

May. 26, 2002, 04:56 PM
Unsafe for the spectators to see.

**LizW #1**
"My insurance doesn't cover PMS" --10 Things I hate about you
"You're free cheesy bread, you're free!" -- Domino's Pizza commerical

PonyJumperGRL
May. 26, 2002, 05:55 PM
We were talking about this on another thread.

I also saw it in a magazine (it must have been Horse & Hound) and someone said a young girl got scalped when she fell and her hair got caught in a standard...

"It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious."

"If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong."

"If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried."


http://community.webshots.com/user/wildponyjumper

LJD
May. 26, 2002, 08:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PonyJumperGRL:
We were talking about this on another thread.

I also saw it in a magazine (it must have been Horse & Hound) and someone said a young girl got scalped when she fell and her hair got caught in a standard...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OMG! That's terrible. I feel sick to my stomach. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif


*Pony Rock*

AAJumper
May. 26, 2002, 08:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PonyJumperGRL:

I also saw it in a magazine (it must have been Horse & Hound) and someone said a young girl got scalped when she fell and her hair got caught in a standard...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

YIKES!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif That is horrible! And I thought I was the queen of freak accidents with standards, seeing as how I ripped my leg on a jump cup one year at Indio. I now fear jump cups...those things can be sharp!!!

visit www.victorianfarms.com (http://www.victorianfarms.com)

Sunday
May. 27, 2002, 06:41 AM
And I believe traditionally you wore your hair up in the hunt field because the last thing you would want to happen is get it stuck in a low branch.

[This message was edited by Sunday on May. 27, 2002 at 11:19 AM.]

Heather Dobbs
May. 27, 2002, 06:45 AM
gross /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif that is really awful.

~*~it's all good...and i'm all that~*~

*~*DeSpErAtElY sEeKiNg An Eq HoRsE*~*

Jumphigh83
May. 27, 2002, 12:05 PM
""Since the topic has come up, I get to say, the reason I don't sign my posts "Betsy" is because I was afraid someone might confuse me with Jumphigh. No offense, but that would really bother me.""


It would bather ME TOO! But I fail to see how Betsy in AVERILL PARK can be confused with Betsy from somewhere is MD???

...""just as I think many of jumphighs comments are beyond rude.""

It is nice to know I can still be trashed without the moderators stepping in...I guess opinions are like behinds..everyone has one...

BUT I am now "immune" to insults and innuendo..THANK GOD!

Betsy
Three Winds Farm NY

Lead, follow, or get out of the way...

RumoursFollow
May. 27, 2002, 12:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
It is nice to know I can still be trashed without the moderators stepping in...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Theres a difference in people bashing you and people just stating the honest to god truth. I stay out of the fights mostly but it seems that wherever there is a fight... you either started it or have had something to say in it. I think you know as well as anyone else here that your posts can be rude at times. Its not like you care whether we think you're rude or not, so whats it to you if the moderators let it stay?

-----------------------------
RumoursFollow
Ten Oaks Farm (http://www.geocities.com/tenoakssc/index.html)
-----------------------------

Jumphigh83
May. 27, 2002, 12:33 PM
What is good for the goose SHOULD be good for the gander..when I post something which is deemed too much don't think OI dont get it from the moderators!! But when I get it (and I have been called everything form a fat slob to a spoiled sport to a RUDE person) and nothing ever is said. Just goes to show you that there IS a slant to the media.

Betsy
Three Winds Farm NY

Lead, follow, or get out of the way...

Darva
May. 27, 2002, 12:36 PM
Betsy (the one from Ny not MD dont want to upset anyone) Just be glad you have such an imapact that people would take time out of their busy days to call you a name I would be proud of that /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Jumphigh83
May. 27, 2002, 12:46 PM
C Harrison writes...

""-- I find myself wondering why people think it is necessary to say that kind of thing about someone that you don't even know, especially when it is certainly not true. I have trained with Missy for three years now- the first two years just eq, and the last year everything, and have learned that she is not strictly an eq. trainer and her success has much more to do with "expensive extensive "training" sessions" as some people tend to gossip about....""


THis is NOT GOSSIP or RUMOUR (what I posted way back when)..It is entirely FACT. I DO NOT gossip or rumour mongor..you should hang around the schooling area at about 6 am and LISTEN to the berating TIRADES not to mention the stuff you hear when no one thinks you are listening!

Betsy
Three Winds Farm NY

Lead, follow, or get out of the way...

Louise
May. 27, 2002, 02:15 PM
The moderators do not live on the BB, and sometimes things are not caught right away. We don't have the time to read every thread, every day. Nobody is prejudiced against you. None of us want anybody bashing anybody else.

Now, all of you, settle down and quit picking at each other. You have a topic - discuss it!

Yesh! /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

---------------------------
"We are what we repeatedly do.
Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit.
Aristotle

PonyJumperGRL
May. 27, 2002, 07:21 PM
Woo hoo! I'm going to stand up for Betsy here. That's her experience with the stated trainer and no one can criticize her. I'm pretty sick of hearing Betsy get flamed for stating her opinion.

What she's doing is admirable and highly uncommon on the internet. She's tells it like it is, not how people want to hear it.

She isn't afraid to go against the grain and she isn't going with the crowd. She's not saying nice things to win brownie points and she's not agreeing with the majority.

Betsy has brought up a decent point -- to what extent do these horses need to be prepared? Is it necessary to DRILL these horses? Shouldn't riders be able to put out consistent rounds with out riding horses into the ground?

These aren't machines. They're animals. They can't stick up for themselves. I've heard of eq horses who's brains were fried from working so much.

"It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious."

"If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong."

"If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried."


http://community.webshots.com/user/wildponyjumper

Juniorchic
May. 27, 2002, 07:32 PM
Well, personally, I think that her artical was very intersting and true. I mean, someone asked her for her opion and she gave it to them. I agree with everything she said. And she is like the top trainer...so, she would know!

-hillary

Janet
May. 27, 2002, 07:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> And I believe traditionally you wore your hair up in the hunt field because the last thing you would want to happen is get it stuck in a low branch. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>"Up", but not INSIDE the helmet. And I think it is more that hair "up" was the way women wore their hair for everything at the time hunting traditions were "established".

C. Harrison
May. 27, 2002, 10:37 PM
I hope I was not the one that stirred things up so much...Betsy, sorry if you took offense. I wasn't directly calling you rude...though I do think some of what you said was a litte out of line and too personal...of course you are entitled to your opinion. But especially for this topic shouldn't opinions be about the article, not about something that you overhead at 6:00am? Maybe not, and maybe what you say is true, but even if you were not taking part in it, I have definitely heard talk about Missy along those lines. I just thought that since I do know her, train with her, spend a lot of time with her, that I could redirect some of the false statements about Missy. You can't always believe what you hear...or overhead, when you haven't seen the overall picture. I personally know and respect Missy- not just because of her ability to "get the horses to the ring" or produce equitation winners....like everyone there is a lot more behind what you see at the surface, and I wish you would consider that before statements like some of the ones I have read come out. This is kind of similar to one of the comments I saw about Charlie and his bowtie...though people can have their opinion, is saying something hurtful really worth trying to further the discussion on these boards? Just because someone shows on the A circuit or writes articles for Practical Horseman, or has articles written about them, doesn't mean that they aren't people, and don't read these boards, and just like anyone else wouldn't want to read something like that. There are so many other, more worthwhile things to talk about...

RumoursFollow
May. 28, 2002, 04:19 AM
have you read the thread with the "other Betsy fight" about working with a difficult foal?

I believe she made a lot of people angry to start with by giving advice which wasnt exactly.. admirable. Maybe its the way she chooses to treat her foals.. but.. not admirable advice to give someone working with their first foal.

Be careful who you defend. I'm not a quick one to jump on the bandwagon for this kind of stuff.. but I wouldnt be the one defending her.

-----------------------------
RumoursFollow
Ten Oaks Farm (http://www.geocities.com/tenoakssc/index.html)
-----------------------------

Flash44
May. 28, 2002, 04:43 AM
As far as the scalping incident, that sounds like a bit of an exaggeration to me. How do you lose your whole head of hair if you have a helmet on? I can see losing a chunk, though. the trick to preventing scalping is to make sure you hair is so chemically processed it breaks off instead of tearing out of your head.

I'll tell you once more before I get off the floor don't bring me down...

Louise
May. 28, 2002, 04:59 AM
I said this once, I will say it again. Lay off focussing on Betsy, or any other individual for that matter, pro OR con!

If this concentrating on individuals, and not issues does not cease, this thread will be closed. That is one thing that you can count on.

Remember, one of the rules of this BB is "Concentrate on issues, not individuals."

Also remember, another rule is "Play nice."

---------------------------
"We are what we repeatedly do.
Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit.
Aristotle

Chaser
May. 28, 2002, 06:41 AM
I seem to recall that the scalping incident happened when a girl's hair got caught up in her horse's foot/shoe. She wasn't completely scalped..."only" partially. There may have been another less serious accident.

I think the rule is an over reaction, and it has been too vigorously applied in cases. Someone was pulled up even though her hair was in a net because it reached just past her collar. That was when the rule first came in...perhaps they are being slighly more lenient now? What is really ridiculous is that you have to follow this rule when walking the course!

In the days of yore, ladies out hunting would wear a top hat and their hair in a bun. Nowadays, most ladies wear an approved helmet or an unapproved hunt cap, with hair in a net, outside the hat and not covering the ears. I have never noticed people putting up their hair inside their hat.

In UK hack and side saddle classes, competitors wear false buns if their hair isn't long enough and they are wearing a top hat. I don't know what they do for those shows which require an approved helmet to be worn.

Jumphigh83
May. 28, 2002, 08:24 AM
Rumours follow..Good name..READ the thread about chestnut filly AGAIN. I disclaimed it by saying "YOU WILL NOT LIKE THIS BUT......" it is what works for ME!!!!!!!!!! I do NOT give out my opinions UNLESS they are strongly supported by EXPERIENCE and FACT. That is how RUMOURS FOLLOW! Reread the thread and PLEASE get the facts straight.
Wow. Have an opinion and get scorched.

Betsy
Three Winds Farm NY

Lead, follow, or get out of the way...

Inverness
May. 28, 2002, 09:05 AM
..you should hang around the schooling area at about 6 am and LISTEN to the berating TIRADES not to mention the stuff you hear when no one thinks you are listening!

...[/QUOTE]

I agree that "berating" athletes and spouting a "tirade" is never admirable. Neither, however, is eavesdropping.

Personally, I hate it when I see anyone (big, little, or medium trainer) lose their temper with a student. To me this type of behavior demonstrates a lack of professionalism and detracts from effective communication.

If a student is doing something dangerous or just plain stupid, it definitely MUST be pointed out, but there is no need to humiliate the student and embarrass onlookers while doing it.



"Out of my mind. Back in five minutes."

RumoursFollow
May. 28, 2002, 09:11 AM
thanks for the advice though.

-----------------------------
RumoursFollow
Ten Oaks Farm (http://www.geocities.com/tenoakssc/index.html)
-----------------------------

Celtic Witch
May. 28, 2002, 12:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I think the rule is an over reaction, and it has been too vigorously applied in cases. Someone was pulled up even though her hair was in a net because it reached just past her collar. That was when the rule first came in...perhaps they are being slighly more lenient now? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif I find few things more annoying than people who want to play the game but don't want the rules. Having worked in law, this is the BSJA covering its arse and for good reason.

If the person in question's hair was in a net but still below the collar, it wasn't in line with the regulations. "Almost only counts in horse shoes and hand granades."

In all reality, its not that difficult to put your hair up neatly. I have insanely thick hair (part and parcel to being Native American) and spent years eventing and showing the A circuit with it grown well past my waist. And yet it never hung past my collar.

IMO, most of my fellow BSJA competitors could learn a thing or two about turnout (human and equine) from the Americans.

Susie

PonyJumperGRL
May. 28, 2002, 01:00 PM
You guys don't have to agree with everything Betsy says. She's throwing her opinion out there.

Should I/ Do I criticize you guys for the opinions you hold? I have yet to see Betsy critcize you folks.

I will continue to defend her, because the whole damn board is ganging up on her for her opinions...

As Bumpkin would say, "To each his own"...

I think this topic should be closed now. Because ya'll can't handle it when some people throw their opinions out there. Maybe Betsy shouldn't have used names, but either way. Everyone's made it worse by spazzing out at her...

-----------------------------
"It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious."

"If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong."

"If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried."


http://community.webshots.com/user/wildponyjumper

Louise
May. 28, 2002, 01:40 PM
Because of what PonyJumperGRL said, but not in the way she thinks. I am closing it because she cannot follow instructions.

People on this thread were warned to quit discussing Betsy, pro or con. Apparently PonyJumperGRL doesn't think that this applies to her. Well, it does, and she can take this as fair warning that when a moderator instructs people to lay off of a subject, or to discuss only the situation at hand, and not individuals, then she had better do just that.

It's a pity, because the discussion was moving back on track, but, I will not run the risk of this turning into a slamming thread again.


PonyJumperGRL - email me!

---------------------------
"We are what we repeatedly do.
Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit.
Aristotle