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View Full Version : Who here uses their inside leg while RISING at the posting trot?



Whitfield Farm Hanoverians
May. 7, 2012, 11:43 AM
Using the inside leg while rising at the trot is the only way I've ever ridden/taught. Without that ability you are not as effective at moving the horse towards the outside rein.
I see that many people are taught to squeeze when they sit at the trot. I find that this makes the horse jet forward in a stiffer manner.
Using the inside leg while rising activates the inside hind leg of the horse while it is in the air allowing you to move it under the horse easier causing the horse to bend through the body.
Why am I suprised that many people don't do this normally but then when they sit they are told to ask for leg yield when the inside hind is swinging through?

netg
May. 7, 2012, 12:02 PM
I'd switch diagonals first. My friesian cross has balance issues, and I tend to post on the inside diagonal with her so I can better improve her balance and way of going.

With my TB, I use whichever leg needs it whenever it needs it, regardless of where I am at the post.


I think timing of aids is rarely taught, and to me that's the key part of your post - the very good instructors will teach it whether by telling you when to do it so you learn without even realizing you did, or having you think about which leg is moving and doing it at the right time, etc. But I think a lot of instructors don't realize the timing they're using, and therefore don't realize how to tell someone else to do it. (I'm not an instructor, but don't think I could tell someone else how to get their timing right despite the fact I instinctively do it.)

Janet
May. 7, 2012, 12:09 PM
What makes you think it is either/or?

kashmere
May. 7, 2012, 12:11 PM
I use my inside leg when I need to use it, regardless of where I am in the saddle. I think the "sit and squeeze" is an okay way of maintaining your "forward," but being able to apply independent leg aids is really important.

ponysize
May. 7, 2012, 12:13 PM
Are you talking lower leg? You shouldn't be using that all to post.

Elkie
May. 7, 2012, 12:14 PM
Leslie Webb describes this nicely in her book "Build a Better Athlete".
Your outside shoulder also comes back slightly at the top of your post for the half-halt.

Agree to post whichever leg needs it for better balance, not always the outside.

NotGrandPrixYet
May. 7, 2012, 02:20 PM
I rode for years before finding an instructor who taught correct timing of the aids. There are a lot of ordinary people teaching lessons who have no idea, and the beginning rider does not have the experience to know which instructor is really good. :-(

Gloria
May. 7, 2012, 02:35 PM
You use inside leg on the upswing phase for side way movements (such as leg yield). That is the only time when the horse is able to move that leg sideway.

You activate the leg (depending on which leg you want to activate) when you want more engagement, at the time when that leg is in the the weight bearing phase. So if you want inside hind leg to be more engaged, you activate that inside leg when you are at the "down" phase of the posting trot.

It all depends on what you want to do.

alicen
May. 7, 2012, 02:58 PM
Moi. For the reason of activating the inside hind leg as it comes forward. And, all things being equal, I'll ask for turns and neck bend for straightening when the front leg hits the ground in the direction I want to turn.

Keg-A-Bacchus
May. 8, 2012, 12:39 PM
If I need to activate the hind leg I ask for it on the upswing. But I don't use leg continuously while I post if that's what your saying. I ask for more action and leave them alone until I need them to do something else. My legs just drape 99% of the time unless I need to ask for bend, lateral or in the event my horse needs a quick engine push.

AzuWish
May. 8, 2012, 12:53 PM
I was taught to squeeze inside at top of post for moving laterally, and was taught to half halt as I rise. Squeezing while rising takes some serious coordination though! *cue concentration face*

But I am guilty of squeeze/lift-sit on lazy boogers. As much as I'd like to say that I don't use my lower legs for forward but for lateral, I know that's not true 100% of the time on those sticky footed things :)

In fairness, I do the squeeze/lift, spur, WHIP in each stride. So I could start sitting or posting, though I typical start sitting since I can really drive. They get a three-step cue every stride for being slugs, and the pattern is stopped by correcting to a nice, forward tempo.

I do a lot of things wrong though. That's why I do dressage ... so I can find out how much I've been doing wrong and continue to do wrong lol

Equibrit
May. 8, 2012, 01:05 PM
How can you half-halt when rising ? It is a function of the seat, and would not be possible unless your ass was in the saddle.

AzuWish
May. 8, 2012, 01:26 PM
If you're posting the trot, it is more for rate control than a "true" half halt. It is easier — and more effective — when you're sitting the trot because you can ask with rein restriction+seat vs. asking with rein restriction+leg.

Because you are asking with the outside rein, you are asking the outside front leg and inside hind leg to hesitate, therefore rebalancing and rating the horse.

That's how it has been explained to me.

But I'm always open to being wrong ;) Goodness knows I spend lots of time being just that.

I agree that a true half halt comes from the seat (I have a horse that you can only half halt with the seat and can't really add any rein restriction).

Eventer13
May. 8, 2012, 02:02 PM
How can you half-halt when rising ? It is a function of the seat, and would not be possible unless your ass was in the saddle.

If it was entirely a function of the seat, jumping and riding in 2 point with a balanced horse would be exceedingly difficult.

Equibrit
May. 8, 2012, 02:20 PM
If it was entirely a function of the seat, jumping and riding in 2 point with a balanced horse would be exceedingly difficult.

Pray tell ?

Gloria
May. 8, 2012, 02:39 PM
How can you half-halt when rising ? It is a function of the seat, and would not be possible unless your ass was in the saddle.

Half halt is initiated within the rider's core, and yes, though more difficult for the rider at the rise phase to do so, it is definitely possible, and the horse can definitely feel it.

JackSprats Mom
May. 9, 2012, 02:52 PM
Half halt is initiated within the rider's core, and yes, though more difficult for the rider at the rise phase to do so, it is definitely possible, and the horse can definitely feel it.

Agree, you can still control your abdominal muscles in rising trot its just not as easy.

Equibrit
May. 9, 2012, 03:49 PM
Agree, you can still control your abdominal muscles in rising trot its just not as easy.

So what does that have to do with the horse ?

Equibrit
May. 9, 2012, 03:50 PM
Agree, you can still control your abdominal muscles in rising trot its just not as easy.

So what does that have to do with the horse ? How would he
"feel it" ?

Carol Ames
May. 9, 2012, 04:07 PM
It was the only:yes: way that made sense to me,too!:yes:

JackSprats Mom
May. 9, 2012, 04:10 PM
So what does that have to do with the horse ? How would he
"feel it" ?

omg are you serious? My horse 'feels' the slight unconcious muscle changes when I merely think about transitions let along an actual concious hold of my core/seat.

So heck yeah he feels it.

Carol Ames
May. 9, 2012, 04:16 PM
the same way you do it in half seat/ 2:cool:point; lengthen the spine; tighten the abs, close the hand take a breath and go !:yes: irwardagain
How can you half-halt when rising ? It is a function of the seat, and would not be possible unless your ass was in the saddle.

Equibrit
May. 9, 2012, 06:03 PM
I repeat - how does your horse feel a "hold of my core/seat", if your core/seat is in 2 point and engaged in supporting your upper body position. ? You're either dreaming or a contortionist

cnm161
May. 9, 2012, 06:31 PM
I repeat - how does your horse feel a "hold of my core/seat", if your core/seat is in 2 point and engaged in supporting your upper body position. ? You're either dreaming or a contortionist

When you give a halfhalt through your core, it's not just your seat that affects the horse. Everything is connected-- toes, ankles, knees, hips, vertebrae, shoulders, elbows, hands, neck... none of the body parts exist in isolation, and none of the aids given with them exist in isolation either. Half-halting through the core affects the hips, thighs, and back, whether sitting or rising. Most dramatically, this changes your balance which can be in and of itself an aid to the horse.

My question to you: When you half-halt in the rising trot, do you only half-halt on downbeats? I've found it's usually easier to half-halt on the rising portion as you can "pull up" your horse into a more suspension and less ground cover.

netg
May. 9, 2012, 07:07 PM
I repeat - how does your horse feel a "hold of my core/seat", if your core/seat is in 2 point and engaged in supporting your upper body position. ? You're either dreaming or a contortionist

You're serious?

If you think butt is all that makes up your seat, I suppose the horse won't feel it. But if you think of core and seat as going from knees to rib cage - the horse definitely feels it, the change in your balance is it weights the horse, the change in the feel of your legs on the horse.

I most certainly post differently when allowing my horse forward compared to when driving him forward because he's tense and trying to suck back - and just about none of it consciously comes from my legs.

snbess
May. 9, 2012, 10:54 PM
My gelding definitely feels and responds to a core half halt whether I'm sitting or rising the trot. It's quite cool really.

shea'smom
May. 9, 2012, 11:24 PM
LOL. You dressage people are so entertaining. You can debate anything to death.

lstevenson
May. 10, 2012, 01:05 AM
I repeat - how does your horse feel a "hold of my core/seat", if your core/seat is in 2 point and engaged in supporting your upper body position. ? You're either dreaming or a contortionist


I see your point...it may differ from the accepted definition of a true half halt. But you can definitely half halt while up off of the horse's back.

As others have said, it's more about engaging your core. When in a two point position, move your center of gravity back by moving your hips back slightly, stretch up, engage your core, and wrap your legs lightly around the horse to send them up into the connection.



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LarkspurCO
May. 10, 2012, 01:30 AM
LOL. You dressage people are so entertaining. You can debate anything to death.

Darn right! What if you have a pimple on your ass? Will this disrupt the symmetry of the half-halt?

DownYonder
May. 10, 2012, 08:55 AM
Darn right! What if you have a pimple on your ass? Will this disrupt the symmetry of the half-halt?

Only if you half-halt while sitting! :winkgrin:

Carol Ames
May. 10, 2012, 10:41 AM
in Centered Riding,


the basic starting point in Centered Riding, is "walk and the following seat"





in Centered Riding, "walk ";)oes :)teach this:yes::cool:s!






I'd switch diagonals first. My friesian cross has balance issues, and I tend to post on the inside diagonal with her so I can better improve her balance and way of going.

With my TB, I use whichever leg needs it whenever it needs it, regardless of where I am at the post.


I think timing of aids is rarely taught, and to me that's the key part of your post - the very good instructors will teach it whether by telling you when to do it so you learn without even realizing you did, or having you think about which leg is moving and doing it at the right time, etc. But I think a lot of instructors don't realize the timing they're using, and therefore don't

prealize how to tell someone else to do it. (I'm not an instructor, but don't think I could tell someone else how to get their timing right despite the fact I instinctively do it.)

Carol Ames
May. 10, 2012, 10:57 AM
Some of the best, most effective Centered Riding clinics I have given, were where, after an unmounted lesson; I taught the four basics and walk and the following seat; at that one a rider/ breeder owner said"though she had ridden most of her adult life, she felt that only now was she learning to ride:cool:

meupatdoes
May. 10, 2012, 12:49 PM
I repeat - how does your horse feel a "hold of my core/seat", if your core/seat is in 2 point and engaged in supporting your upper body position. ? You're either dreaming or a contortionist

I can tell you from personal experience that when my hunter is on the way to jump with me in two point and a lightly floating rein, if I need to take a wee bit off the step, just holding my ribcage a half inch taller will do it.

Of course it is possible I am just dreaming, but if challenged I could probably do a video of clearly visible pace changes on a looped rein in the two point (without the use of voice).

As for the answer to the OP, I have been taught both to cue LY while rising and while sitting. Different trainers have had different ideas.
Personally I think it depends on the thought-processing time of the horse. Horses with slower reflexes get the cue while the desired leg is about to leave the ground, horses with quicker ones get the cue when it is already in the air and "freed up".