PDA

View Full Version : Today's Big Eq kids..



no longer a BBer
Apr. 26, 2002, 09:04 AM
This will not be a thread bashing them. It will not be about needing to use the auto release.

That being said, what I do want to bring up is this.

In pics of them on their eq horse, they have amazing equitation. Their legs are tight, they are centered and balanced, and they look great. When you see pictures of them on their hunters, they are jumping ahead, pinching with their knees, their legs are WAY back, and they are laying on their horses neck.

Now having horrible equitation does not make your horse jump better.

WHY DO THEY DO THIS? Any explanations from our top junior riders?

Go Get 'Em Tiger!!!

no longer a BBer
Apr. 26, 2002, 09:04 AM
This will not be a thread bashing them. It will not be about needing to use the auto release.

That being said, what I do want to bring up is this.

In pics of them on their eq horse, they have amazing equitation. Their legs are tight, they are centered and balanced, and they look great. When you see pictures of them on their hunters, they are jumping ahead, pinching with their knees, their legs are WAY back, and they are laying on their horses neck.

Now having horrible equitation does not make your horse jump better.

WHY DO THEY DO THIS? Any explanations from our top junior riders?

Go Get 'Em Tiger!!!

SillyHorse
Apr. 26, 2002, 09:10 AM
Is equitation only for equitation classes? And if so, what's the point? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

SillyHorse

~ PRIDE: It's amazing what you can accomplish when you don't have any

Flashy Gray
Apr. 26, 2002, 09:21 AM
A good eq horse is a splinter-belly flat-backed jumpin' machine who doesn't jar the rider that much, hence it's easier to maintain a nice solid position.

A good hunter, on the other hand, should be a round back-crackin' ba-boom-basculing jumpin' bean - and just try keeping correct pretty angles over a 3'6" jump on that!

My simplistic, but ALWAYS humble /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif opinion.

Linny
Apr. 26, 2002, 09:26 AM
I think alot of eq riders imitate the exagerated style many top hunter riders use. When I look through the pages of COTH for hunter pics, I'm amazed that some of these riders aren't jumped off! I know they may be effective but they look awful. I think alot of jrs imitate that look as soon as they leave the eq classes.

Resident racing historian
May the horse be with you -Harvey Pack May you be with the horse - My last trainer

SillyHorse
Apr. 26, 2002, 09:38 AM
How about this?

SillyHorse

~ PRIDE: It's amazing what you can accomplish when you don't have any

Weatherford
Apr. 26, 2002, 10:20 AM
At the Garden last year, I saw a couple "big name pros" just about fall off in the hunter classes.

I was sitting with a couple of other BNP's and we were all appalled... Granted, I was sitting with JUMPER people /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

VTrider
Apr. 26, 2002, 10:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Get-Em-Tiger:

WHY DO THEY DO THIS? Any explanations from our top junior riders?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As my coach often says - "Your horse mimics your ride."

That said, if I am soft and relax (albeit loose) my horse will jump soft and round and be relaxed in his jump.

Look how a good hunter jumps and look how a good Eq. horse jumps - two totally different phenomenons. An Eq. horse jumps flatter to serve a purpose - so that the rider can equitate/pose better. It's harder to equitate on a back-cracker (though many greats like Conrad Homfeld, Greg Best and Joe Fargis have been able to do it.)

If Emily Williams were to ride down to a 4' oxer on Strapless as if the mare were an equitation horse - would she get as good of a jump out of her as if she stayed loose and forward while galloping down to the jumps on a loopy rein - I HIGHLY doubt it.

So going back to my original statement, "Your horse mimics your ride." /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Flashy Gray
Apr. 26, 2002, 11:30 AM
but there is a world of difference between Kathy Kusner, one of our sport's all-time most talented and gifted athletes, and your average "Big Eq Kid."

FYI I can't open your .bmp attachment but assume it's the famous pic of KK jumping Untouchable over 7" at Hickstead in the 60s. A stellar example of how to do it right at the highest levels, and certainly the form and style that all of us amateurs should strive for.

VT's point about the type of ride you are giving the horse is interesting, as well.

SillyHorse
Apr. 26, 2002, 11:32 AM
Then what is the purpose of equitation? I'm not trying to be a smarta$$. I really don't understand this. If the horse goes in the desirable manner with a particular style of riding, why is that style not correct equitation? At least it's not going to win an equitation class.

And I've never read G.M. or anyone else, for that matter, to say that lying on your horse's neck with your butt way up in the air is good riding. Yet I know most of the hunter pros ride like this.

SillyHorse

~ PRIDE: It's amazing what you can accomplish when you don't have any

VTrider
Apr. 26, 2002, 11:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flashy Gray:

VT's point about the type of ride you are giving the horse is interesting, as well.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting good? Or Interesting bad? /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

thecowboyway
Apr. 26, 2002, 12:01 PM
interesting good, its the way it is.

Flashy Gray
Apr. 26, 2002, 12:04 PM
VT, believe it or not, as much as I appreciate your posts containing scientific data on the rituals and habitat of the Wily Mid-Atlantic Urchin /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif - I think your observations on this thread ARE interesting.

kd welden
Apr. 26, 2002, 12:06 PM
VT- I also find your point interesting (in a good way) it intrigues me... but its no excuse to be sloppy

look at McLain Ward on a daily basis, his equitation is always good. So is Nikki Simpson, Ray Texel, Lauren Hough, etc. and their horses are jumping at their best most of the time. Even Emily Williams, whom you use as an excellent example, usually has good equitation... Maybe its proof of perfecting the ride? They have managed to keep that good equitation while also mastering the idea of relaxing into that good position...

I agree that a back-cracking hunter isn't going to allow you perfect equitation but I do think that good equitation can be shown on anyhorse.

someone said something to the effect that you can't compare the big eq riders with Kathy Kusner and the like... I think they are right. Equitation is an ongoing experience and the ideal is to be so comfortable on a horse and with your position that you look the same.

The big eq kids are learning and learning takes brain power, I agree with VTrider that if kids thought that hard about position while showing their hunters, then the hunters form wouldn't be as good.

no longer a BBer
Apr. 26, 2002, 12:06 PM
See, I agree with you VTRider to a point. You can be soft and relaxed without being loose and jumping ahead.

Jumping ahead and laying on the horse's neck does not make him jump better. Same goes with pinching with your knee and sending your lower leg flying back.

I am not saying these are just like average equitation riders. These are the ones winning eq classes in Florida and at Devon. Then you see them on a picture of a hunter and they look like they are about to fall off a horse.

I don't mind the big realease. In fact, I think eq riders need to give more of one. If you watch an eq class, the riders hands DO NOT move. They stay the same place galloping to the jump as they do over the jump. They aren't yanking their horse's mouth off, but they could atleast give a release.

Go Get 'Em Tiger!!!

kd welden
Apr. 26, 2002, 12:08 PM
PS- not all big eq riders are sloppy. I saw an amazing display of equitation by Maggie Jayne on Towerheads... she shows exactly how an automatic release should be done and I'm still picking my jaw up off the ground!

Flash44
Apr. 26, 2002, 12:55 PM
Since most eq horses don't have quite the effortless stride most hunters do, the ride has to be a little more forward in the eqs. Since the eq horse does not explode off the ground like some hunters do, it takes much less effort for the rider to keep up with the horse.

So many hunters lope casually around the course, there is a big change in power when they leave the ground. The rider may have to make a big effort to keep up with the horse, and the horse's jump can dislodge the rider a bit.

I'll tell you once more before I get off the floor don't bring me down...

hobson
Apr. 26, 2002, 03:37 PM
Question: what is the purpose of an equitation class? To demonstrate the rider's skill in general on any given horse, or to demonstrate the rider's skill in riding hunters specifically, or something else altogether? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Because if it's about ability and form relative to the hunt seat discipine, isn't it kind of pointless if the eq horses don't even go in the hunter classes, at least at the big-time level?

This is a question from a not-in-the-know eventer--not being facetious.

ErinB
Apr. 26, 2002, 04:38 PM
But doing THIS (see pic) is kind of overdoing it IMHO. And yes, I'm wayyyy too active over jumps myself, even crossrails. But then again, I have 1/100th of the experience that these people have.

~Erin B #1
They call television a medium. That's because it is neither rare nor well done.

slainte!
Apr. 26, 2002, 05:19 PM
wow, that's a beautiful horse..... how are the laws of physics allowing that rider to stay on though? i have no experience with hunters, so bear with me here!!

-Liz
*Member of the Disgruntled College Student Clique!*
~proud 20 yr old bubble head~
woo hoo IHSA!

just for kicks
Apr. 26, 2002, 05:26 PM
Wow that horse is so pretty. But the person ruins the picture for me. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

slainte!
Apr. 26, 2002, 05:27 PM
i would think in the hunters, even though only the horse is being judged, that the rider would "accent" the horse's way of going. it seems to me in the above picture that the rider is interfering with the "look".

i'm probably wrong..... ha

-Liz
*Member of the Disgruntled College Student Clique!*
"The sight of that horse did something to me I've never quite been able to explain. He was more than tremendous strength and speed and beauty of motion. He set me dreaming" - Walt Morey

sss
Apr. 26, 2002, 06:06 PM
I believe the purpose of eq is to encourage the rider to get the horse to the jump in a proper frame that allows him to jump in the best form (i.e., back-crackin', etc). BigEq has evolved over the years to favor those horses that, despite being perfectly placed, jump flat and allow the rider to pose. I don't think eq is judged on just the form over the jump, but how the rider gets the horse to the jump as well. Unfortunately, some riders may not learn the purpose of their eq, and abandon it when the're challenged to stay in their eq positions on a round horse.

Thus, eq is not useless, and should be used in the hunters. But the eq should be used to keep the horse in a proper hunter frame. Hunters who go all loose and loopy-reined are amazing athletes to get over 4' in that kind of frame. They could probably jump the heck out of any jumper course as well. That's why hunter riding is such an art; to keep a horse looking relaxed, yet physically able to jump big and in good form.

Jumpers are focused on exploding off the ground and getting over the jump; hence it's not in their best interest to go all loose and loopy-reined. However, an explosive jump isn't really needed until you get to about 3'6" and over, and it's especially needed at the higher levels. Equitation should prepare a rider for any type of ride, but its tight turns and jumper-type courses favor a jumper-style ride, with horses in a more maneuverable frame.

Yes, eq undeniably makes a difference in a horse's jump. The horses that jump well despite the rider hanging all over their necks should be highly commended; they are the best of the best. But if you want to give your horse every edge you can, you keep yourself where you belong. Look at Rodrigo Pessoa -- how can he make those amazing turns unless he's balanced in the air and not interfering with his horse? And try riding a horse who DOES care where you are; you'll learn to equitate really fast! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Jamie Taylor
Apr. 26, 2002, 06:14 PM
I have to say, that at least I don't do that purposely. Although my legs aren't perfect in the eq, they slip back a teensy bit, probably because I am riding a horse who LOVES to use her back =). However, I have noticed that on some hunters my leg slips, and sometimes it doesn't. I saw some pictures of me on Strapless and my leg was still, in fact it looked very eq-like. I have a fabulous pic of me on Horion though, and I am forward, and my leg has slipped. However, I know that, unless the horse needs it, I am not LAYING on the neck. Just because I am forward, doesn't mean I am laying all over my horse, thats a good way to get a nice front rub. I, however, have ridden a horse or two who need you to push on their neck a bit in the air. Otherwise they jump with their heads just thismuch too high so a little push makes it look good. I think that, like me, most of the big-eq juniors are just riding soft, really getting into the job at hand. I also know that when my leg slips back, it isn't loose, and sliding, it is pushing while slipping a bit. I don't know how to explain that better, but just because my leg is a little far back, doesn't mean I'm not using it is what I guess I wanted to say. So to try to finish this up in a reasonable amount of space =), I guess, I cannot speak for all junior, but while I am riding rhe hunters I am so relaxed and trying to get them so relaxed, that my position my suffer, but the position I have should not affect the jump. I know I don't go quite buck wild such as, about to fall off, but my eq does change a bit. I can't explain it, it just seems to happen when I am really on a nice, round horse. Except then again, I didn't on Justified, and I didn't on Strapless, so I guess it just depends, I don't know if someone else can explain what I am trying to say, because I failed miserably. However, I think you get my point a bit. At least I hope you do.

"Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out alive." - Van Wilder

DreamBigEq37
Apr. 26, 2002, 07:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ErinB:
But doing THIS (see pic) is kind of overdoing it IMHO. And yes, I'm wayyyy too active over jumps myself, even crossrails. But then again, I have 1/100th of the experience that these people have.

~Erin B #1
They call television a medium. That's because it is neither rare nor well done.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You wouldn't happen to know who this was would you?? I think I know but I am not sure! If you don't want to embarass the person by posting it here could you email me?? thanks!

*~*~Lauryn*~*~*~

<3 Justice Served <3
<3 Nip N Tuck <3

"Riding is sort of like Nuts and Bolts- If the rider's nuts, then the horse bolts."

Did You Hug Your Horse Today?

http://www10.brinkster.com/dreambig37/db/home/Snoopy

~SC~
Apr. 26, 2002, 07:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VTrider:

As my coach often says - "Your horse mimics your ride."

That said, if I am soft and relax (albeit loose) my horse will jump soft and round and be relaxed in his jump.

Look how a good hunter jumps and look how a good Eq. horse jumps - two totally different phenomenons. An Eq. horse jumps flatter to serve a purpose - so that the rider can equitate/pose better. It's harder to equitate on a back-cracker (though many greats like Conrad Homfeld, Greg Best and Joe Fargis have been able to do it.)

If Emily Williams were to ride down to a 4' oxer on Strapless as if the mare were an equitation horse - would she get as good of a jump out of her as if she stayed loose and forward while galloping down to the jumps on a loopy rein - I HIGHLY doubt it.

So going back to my original statement, "Your horse mimics your ride." /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is EXACTLY what I was about to post. When I get pictures back from horse shows, I can totally tell if it's from a hunter class or an Eq class by the way my horse is jumping. Since I've been with my new trainer I've found this to be more true, but my horse's (my hunter's) preferred way of going is when I'm in 2-point, completely off her back, with my arms very floppy and relaxed. She also likes my back to be semi-roached! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif But her jump is AMAZING when I do this!

Now in the Eq, when I "sit down" on her, arch my back a little more, and lower my hands a little, she gets a little pissy and definitely jumps flatter, which is an advantage for the Eq. The key is to having a horse that will tolerate you riding them in a way they don't prefer and then bouncing right back to their usual form! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

~Sarah~

Fiction
Apr. 26, 2002, 07:38 PM
I have a tendency to ride my hunters completly not caring about my eq, and leaning on the neck. It doesn't affect the way they jump. But I know I CAN stay up, since I have to on my pony(I'm too big for him)
When I try, I have really nice eq(I'm not trying to sound pompous). It's always been a strong suit of mine, and having the "admired body type" is always a nice advantage.
But then I had an eq lesson on a hunter the other day, and realized, I can still ride a scopey hunter, and work on my eq at the same time. The horse went so well, and I was still able to maintain a "classic" eq position over the fences. We did a
Xrail- bounce -2ft vert- bounce -2'6 vert- 1 stride -3ft vert-
This really helped me, and got the horse jumping well.
We got some good pictures hopefully, and I will post them if they come out nicely
/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-----
This is not a true story
-----

Hattie
Apr. 26, 2002, 07:45 PM
that person in the photo that ErinB posted happens to be one of the top hunter riders in this country. She was also a top equitation rider as a junior. In fact, she was the Maclay winner and reserve in the AHSA Medal in the early 90's!

[This message was edited by Hattie on Apr. 26, 2002 at 10:54 PM.]

Whip 'N Spurs
Apr. 26, 2002, 08:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hattie:
that person in the photo that ErinB posted happens to be one of the top hunter riders in this country. She was also a top equitation rider as a junior. In fact, she was the Maclay winner and reserve in the AHSA Medal in the early 90's!

[This message was edited by Hattie on Apr. 26, 2002 at 10:54 PM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

She looked scary enough in that picture.

I guess we all have our really bad pictures though. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Laura & Casey
Men are like good chocolates; the richer, the better.
Photo Album:
http://community.webshots.com/user/viprincesss

PaigeHortman
Apr. 26, 2002, 08:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by I Messed With TX:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hattie:
that person in the photo that ErinB posted happens to be one of the top hunter riders in this country. She was also a top equitation rider as a junior. In fact, she was the Maclay winner and reserve in the AHSA Medal in the early 90's!

[This message was edited by Hattie on Apr. 26, 2002 at 10:54 PM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

She looked scary enough in that picture.

I guess we all have our really bad pictures though. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Laura & Casey
Men are like good chocolates; the richer, the better.
Photo Album:
http://community.webshots.com/user/viprincesss[/QUOTE] (http://community.webshots.com/user/viprincesss<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>)

HA.....Kelly Farmer? She has never ONCE been scarey to watch go, like previously stated.....ONE OF THE TOP HUNTER RIDERS......I know I've watched her many times showing in the 4'0" and just lopes right up to a huge 4'0" oxar so nicely, and the horse FIRES off the ground, shes just helping the horse, like they said maybe its not the best pic, but that jumps looks pretty big! Watch her go on spyglass hill.....awesome 4'0" horse.....gray!

Whip 'N Spurs
Apr. 26, 2002, 08:31 PM
I never knew that helped your horse.

Maybe I'm oblivious. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Laura & Casey
Men are like good chocolates; the richer, the better.
Photo Album:
http://community.webshots.com/user/viprincesss

ErinB
Apr. 26, 2002, 08:56 PM
DreamBigEq: It's Kelly Farmer. Though I suppose you know that now. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

~Erin B #1
They call television a medium. That's because it is neither rare nor well done.

Court@HJ-OH
Apr. 26, 2002, 09:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VTrider:

If Emily Williams were to ride down to a 4' oxer on Strapless as if the mare were an equitation horse - would she get as good of a jump out of her as if she stayed loose and forward while galloping down to the jumps on a loopy rein - I HIGHLY doubt it.

So going back to my original statement, "Your horse mimics your ride." /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't!!!!!

**Courtney**
Jack ~On the Rocks~ PLEASE /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Momo ~Just My Luck~

A woman only needs two animals in her life.. the horse of her dreams and a jackass to pay for it!

ErinB
Apr. 26, 2002, 09:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> HA.....Kelly Farmer? She has never ONCE been scarey to watch go, like previously stated.....ONE OF THE TOP HUNTER RIDERS......I know I've watched her many times showing in the 4'0" and just lopes right up to a huge 4'0" oxar so nicely, and the horse FIRES off the ground, shes just helping the horse, like they said maybe its not the best pic, but that jumps looks pretty big! Watch her go on spyglass hill.....awesome 4'0" horse.....gray! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uh... certainly she's not "helping" by almost flying off her horse. Elizabeth Solter can certainly pull off staying IN the tack on Rox Dene in this picture and Rox Dene doesn't seem to mind. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

But hey, it's only a picture! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

~Erin B #1
They call television a medium. That's because it is neither rare nor well done.

Court@HJ-OH
Apr. 26, 2002, 09:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jamie Taylor:
I saw some pictures of me on Strapless and my leg was still, in fact it looked very eq-like. I have a fabulous pic of me on Horion though, and I am forward, and my leg has slipped. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

pictures pictures! Show us, show us! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

**Courtney**
Jack ~On the Rocks~ PLEASE /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Momo ~Just My Luck~

A woman only needs two animals in her life.. the horse of her dreams and a jackass to pay for it!

DreamBigEq37
Apr. 27, 2002, 06:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ErinB:
DreamBigEq: It's Kelly Farmer. Though I suppose you know that now. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

~Erin B #1
They call television a medium. That's because it is neither rare nor well done.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats exactly who i thought it was but i didn't want to say it on here if i was wrong!! haha i thought so because she rode my hunter in the firstyrs in ocala and i have some pics and she always looks exactly like that!! She is awesome though with finding spots and she almost never messed up with him and hes not always an easy ride!!!! So I dont know why she jumps like that!

*~*~Lauryn*~*~*~

<3 Justice Served <3
<3 Nip N Tuck <3

"Riding is sort of like Nuts and Bolts- If the rider's nuts, then the horse bolts."

Did You Hug Your Horse Today?

http://www10.brinkster.com/dreambig37/db/home/Snoopy

DreamBigEq37
Apr. 27, 2002, 06:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
HA.....Kelly Farmer? She has never ONCE been scarey to watch go, like previously stated.....ONE OF THE TOP HUNTER RIDERS......I know I've watched her many times showing in the 4'0" and just lopes right up to a huge 4'0" oxar so nicely, and the horse FIRES off the ground, shes just helping the horse, like they said maybe its not the best pic, but that jumps looks pretty big! Watch her go on spyglass hill.....awesome 4'0" horse.....gray!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I saw her go on Spyglass Hill, I LOVE him he is adorable and really sweet!!!

*~*~Lauryn*~*~*~

<3 Justice Served <3
<3 Nip N Tuck <3

"Riding is sort of like Nuts and Bolts- If the rider's nuts, then the horse bolts."

Did You Hug Your Horse Today?

http://www10.brinkster.com/dreambig37/db/home/Snoopy

creseida
Apr. 27, 2002, 07:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flashy Gray:


A good hunter, on the other hand, should be a round back-crackin' ba-boom-basculing jumpin' bean - and just try keeping correct pretty angles over a 3'6" jump on that!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Watch Katie Monahan or MacLain Ward, on their GP jumpers and you'll see the answer is "Yes, you CAN keep correct, pretty angles even when the jumps hit...let's see, the Wall at WIHS was how high???". /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif And MacLain's position was "Picture Perfect".

OTOH, Ms. Farmer's position, at least in that photo, was "Butt Ugly." /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

~*~Come on, try a little, nothing is forever. There's got to be somewhere better than In The Middle...~*~

[This message was edited by creseida on Apr. 27, 2002 at 10:27 PM.]

Jamie Taylor
Apr. 27, 2002, 11:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Court@HJ-OH:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jamie Taylor:
I saw some pictures of me on Strapless and my leg was still, in fact it looked very eq-like. I have a fabulous pic of me on Horion though, and I am forward, and my leg has slipped. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

pictures pictures! Show us, show us! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

**Courtney**
Jack ~On the Rocks~ PLEASE /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Momo ~Just My Luck~

_A woman only needs two animals in her life.. the horse of her dreams and a jackass to pay for it! _<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Unfortunately, none of the Strapless pics were so fabulous that I bought them =( So I don't have any pics to post of me on her, and I was emailed the pic of Horizon, and I have no idea how to post it....So ahh, I don't know! I am going to try, but chances are it won't work! BTW credit for this pic goes to Kenny Kraus of Towerheads...thanks to him for sending me this great picture.

"Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out alive." - Van Wilder

[This message was edited by Jamie Taylor on Apr. 28, 2002 at 08:34 PM.]

Court@HJ-OH
Apr. 28, 2002, 08:25 AM
Didn't work! /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Maybe try posting it again!

Do you have any pics of Ruby Begonia, I have always wanted to see her!

**Courtney**
Jack ~On the Rocks~ PLEASE /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Momo ~Just My Luck~

A woman only needs two animals in her life.. the horse of her dreams and a jackass to pay for it!

AcademyAward
Apr. 28, 2002, 08:29 AM
Hum. Equitation keeps my horse in balance and if I ride around on a loopy reign, he drags leads or takes off early. For example, if I drop my shoulder coming off a diagonal fence, he will switch to a cross canter.. Maybe I'm wrong.. eh /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

findeight
Apr. 28, 2002, 09:32 AM
A picture may be worth a thousand words but is no substitute for seeing whole rounds.
Not sure it is fair to be slamming Ms. Farmer based on a picture. She has an unorthodox style to be sure but her horses sure love and perform for her. To the tune of multiple big wins at big shows and I believe she was near the top in the WCHR Pro division last fall as well as on many top year end top tens in various divisions.
This gal amazes me coming back all day on all types of horses and ride after ride they all jump great.

The Horse World. 2 people, 3 opinions. That's the way it is.

CBoylen
Apr. 28, 2002, 10:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ErinB:
[QUOTE] HA.....Kelly Farmer? She has never ONCE been scarey to watch go, like previously stated.....ONE OF THE TOP HUNTER RIDERS......I know I've watched her many times showing in the 4'0" and just lopes right up to a huge 4'0" oxar so nicely, and the horse FIRES off the ground, shes just helping the horse, like they said maybe its not the best pic, but that jumps looks pretty big! Watch her go on spyglass hill.....awesome 4'0" horse.....gray!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Uh... certainly she's not "helping" by almost flying off her horse. Elizabeth Solter can certainly pull off staying IN the tack on Rox Dene in this picture and Rox Dene doesn't seem to mind. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Just wanted to mention that Spyglass Hill is also by Aristos B /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Jamie Taylor
Apr. 28, 2002, 05:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Court@HJ-OH:
Didn't work! /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Maybe try posting it again!

Do you have any pics of Ruby Begonia, I have always wanted to see her!

**Courtney**
Jack ~On the Rocks~ PLEASE /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Momo ~Just My Luck~

_A woman only needs two animals in her life.. the horse of her dreams and a jackass to pay for it! _<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Hmmm, how strange, it worked last night for me, but doesn't work now...hmm, and as for Ruby. I tried to post a pic of her last night, and it was "too big" I don't have any more of her, I'll see, but I don't have a scanner so I dunno if any of them would work anyways.

"Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out alive." - Van Wilder

~SC~
Apr. 28, 2002, 05:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jamie Taylor:


Unfortunately, none of the Strapless pics were so fabulous that I bought them =( So I don't have any pics to post of me on her, and I was emailed the pic of Horizon, and I have no idea how to post it....So ahh, I don't know! I am going to try, but chances are it won't work! BTW credit for this pic goes to Kenny Kraus of Towerheads...thanks to him for sending me this great picture.

"Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out alive." - Van Wilder<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

AWESOME PIC Jamie!! That horse is adorable! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

If I had ridden Strapless, I would have bought all the pics just to prove I had actually RIDDEN her! LOL /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

~Sarah~

Jamie Taylor
Apr. 28, 2002, 05:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ~Southern Comfort~:
AWESOME PIC Jamie!! That horse is adorable! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

If I had ridden Strapless, I would have bought all the pics just to prove I had actually RIDDEN her! LOL /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

~Sarah~<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hahaha, I got a tape for that!

"Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out alive." - Van Wilder

DreamBigEq37
Apr. 28, 2002, 06:42 PM
Not all of her pics r like that.... I have some pics of her jumping good and for some odd reason my horse isnt jumping as good in the pics where she is riding "classically" but the pics where she is jumping with "bad eq" my horse jumps a TON better!!

Here is a pic of her with "good eq" and my horse is jumping icky!

*~*~Lauryn*~*~*~

<3 Justice Served <3
<3 Nip N Tuck <3

"Riding is sort of like Nuts and Bolts- If the rider's nuts, then the horse bolts."

Did You Hug Your Horse Today?

http://www10.brinkster.com/dreambig37/db/home/Snoopy

DreamBigEq37
Apr. 28, 2002, 06:45 PM
i have like 15 more pics of her on him but im too lazy to post anymore... heres one...

*~*~Lauryn*~*~*~

<3 Justice Served <3
<3 Nip N Tuck <3

"Riding is sort of like Nuts and Bolts- If the rider's nuts, then the horse bolts."

Did You Hug Your Horse Today?

http://www10.brinkster.com/dreambig37/db/home/Snoopy

VTrider
Apr. 29, 2002, 05:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ErinB:
But doing THIS (see pic) is kind of overdoing it IMHO. And yes, I'm wayyyy too active over jumps myself, even crossrails. But then again, I have 1/100th of the experience that these people have.

~Erin B #1<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But if Kelly Farmer has to look like that to get that kind of AMAZING jump from that horse - then more power to her! Her equitation doesn't matter a hill of beans to the judge in a hunter class.

Thanks for sharing that picture BTW /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

lauriep
Apr. 29, 2002, 06:02 AM
has become a separate entity from a class that promotes riding well. Because they are allowed to ride over-schooled, flat jumping horses, the good riders aren't always separated from the not-so-good. Wouldn't it be interesting if they had to ride their jr. hunters as their eq. horses as it once was, before there was so much specialization?

If the true basics are there, it isn't a crime to deviate from perfection when not in an eq. class. If the leg slips back over a big fence, or if it seems that the hip angle is too closed, remember that a good jumping horse will close those angles FOR you, you don't necessarily need to make any moves. And there are very few McLains out there with a nearly rock solid lower leg and classic style. Even Conrad's form suffered over the big jumps, but it certainly cannot be argued that he didn't get the job done. His BASICS remained and that is the important lesson of equitation.

Laurie

[This message was edited by lauriep on Apr. 29, 2002 at 11:01 AM.]

Zaboobafoo
Apr. 29, 2002, 07:19 AM
I don't think the eq is useless, or even not used, in the hunter(or jumper!) clsses. It is just not the focus! The kids work hard to be able to have perfect eq, and when they focus on it, they do it beautifully. However, when the goal is getting 8 outragous jumping efforts, or a clean fast course, they are not saying to themselves, are my heels down? Is my back straight? Is my eq perfect? Its just not the focus.

And this doesn't mean that they aren't in balance with their horse. Remember, photos are a SPLIT MOMENT of time. These riders often "help" their hunters over the jump, working just as hard in the air as the four-legged animal underneath.

Horses are sensitive, complicated animals. They don't all need the same kind of ride...some(ie, Strapless) probably need a stiller, slower with your body ride, while some lazier, more laidback warmbloods need the rider to be working harder to get the best effort. The best riders are the ones who know which needs what and can adapt to get the best effort out of everything they ride.

Alex Pakzad
Apr. 29, 2002, 07:57 PM
I dont want to sound mean or anything but here is my opinion? I don't think people should be criticizing Kelly Farmer's style of riding. Her style seems to be working wonderfully for her, so she must be doing something right! Kelly Farmer is a very talented rider, who has won numerous titles in the hunters. I think it is okay to have an opinion, but I don't think it is anyone but a very accomplished rider's place to criticize the way she rides.

**Bolero**Hampton**Nicolina**

[This message was edited by Alex Pakzad on Apr. 29, 2002 at 11:31 PM.]

Whip 'N Spurs
Apr. 29, 2002, 08:09 PM
Nice post, Zaboobafoo.


Laura & Casey
Men are like good chocolates; the richer, the better.
Photo Album:
http://community.webshots.com/user/viprincesss

Court@HJ-OH
May. 1, 2002, 12:17 PM
You know my favorite two pros are that don't stick their butts to the sky...James Lala and Louise Serio. Now you have to admitt that Louise does have her own unique way of riding, but I don't think that anyone can deny that it works! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

**Courtney**
Jack ~On the Rocks~ PLEASE /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Momo ~Just My Luck~

A woman only needs two animals in her life.. the horse of her dreams and a jackass to pay for it!

Banana
May. 1, 2002, 01:51 PM
Most of today's best equitation kids are great hunter riders also. As for having to ride junior hunters in the eq, Whitney Roper rode her small junior Fancy That in a couple eq classes in florida and won. Proof that you can practice great equitation and get a super jump out of your horse.

JumperQueen
May. 1, 2002, 01:56 PM
equitation is basically effectiveness. the only reason there is a "correct" riding position is that over hundreds of years this position has been discovered to be the most effective in actually riding your horse. a lot of people think equitation is just judged on how pretty you look, but in actuallity is supossed to be based on the correct effective position.

PonyHunter
May. 1, 2002, 02:46 PM
Don't yell at me if I offend you, okay?!?!
Well, those divisions are pretty much dominated by hunter riders, correct? Well, it kinda all starts with pony riders /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif . Lots of them are little kids who have a really expensive and fancy pony hunter. But that doesn't necissarily give them better equitation, does it? But they see the big jumper riders ducking just trying to stay on, and they say, Wow, I wanna look like so and so! So they mimic that form, and I have to say, it seems to be quite popular.

Well, pretty much all the pony riders jump like that, so the judges can't mark them down. But when they move to the juniors, lots of junior didn't show at a really early age. They didn't do the A-Circuit when they were kids, so they haven't picked up on that um, technique. The judges like to see their good equitation, and lots of the hunters pick up on that.

But when the dominant hunters get in the ring, all the pony kids say, what the heck? I like jumping my way, and it doesn't matter! So they go back to their old form. Then there's the small group of EQ winners not wanting to feel stupid and like they're doing it wrong, so they try to imitate it as best they can.

Thank you for listening to my opinion! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

To ride or not to ride? What a stupid question!

hunter_1994
May. 1, 2002, 03:52 PM
To me, that person seems to be a little over the top with there hind end! Not the horse, the rider. The horse looks great! Nice pic, but all I can see is a head and neck stuck together and a bum in the air.

spoiledsweet
May. 1, 2002, 04:10 PM
Anna Jane White-Mullin states that "[a] major form fault resulting from legs too far back is 'perching,' in which the upper body is ahead of the horse's motion at takeoff and in the air. Perching is penalized because: it throws excess weight onto the horse's front end as the animal is taking off from the ground and is airborne; it diminishes the rider's control, since he is ahead of the motion; and it affects the animal's balance, causing jumping faults such as front-end rubs and hanging."

The photos that accompany the text look awfully similar to many pictures that appear in the Chronicle, IMO. Just some food for thought, getting back to the original topic of kids who ride in the Big Eq. and their positions in the hunters.

[This message was edited by spoiledsweet on May. 01, 2002 at 07:29 PM.]

findeight
May. 1, 2002, 04:26 PM
Each rider is an individual and each horse is an individual. All have their own style.
While I ,again, say Ms. Farmer's is quite different from the ideal, her horses love it and jump right out of their skins for her.
Why not watch a few of her rounds and see what you might adapt from her style to help you in your Hunter rounds?
I will be in Ky next week, watching her and Louise and Havens and Emily....trying to learn and be better.

The Horse World. 2 people, 3 opinions. That's the way it is.

malarkey
May. 1, 2002, 04:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flashy Gray:
A good eq horse is a splinter-belly flat-backed jumpin' machine who doesn't jar the rider that much, hence it's easier to maintain a nice solid position.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> If a rider's position is easily undone when their horse rounds over a fence, then it ain't so "solid" to begin with. Just dig out that old copy of G.M.'s hunt seat eq. and take a look at those riders over 3'6" and bigger fences. heels down, legs tight, totally independant hand, and they're not laying on the horses' necks.

Midge
May. 2, 2002, 05:09 AM
findeight, the lovely Midge and I are going to be in Kentucky, too. Not showing, of course, but enjoying the great facility. Let's go on a trail ride.

****
'If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?'

Flash44
May. 8, 2002, 07:51 AM
AFter watching Kelly Farmer ride Naomi in the Ocala GP on TV last night, I'll have to say her eq is pretty correct and classic. Those were some big jumps, and her leg barely moved and she showed outstanding form on a horse that was obviously very hard to ride.

I'll tell you once more before I get off the floor don't bring me down...

Heather Dobbs
May. 8, 2002, 11:24 AM
i don't think that you all should be attacking kelley farmer's style. she is a top hunter rider, and i've seen her ride before at indoors, and she really is very good. in the hunters, equitation is not being judged, therefore, you should do what you need to do to make your horse jump and/or move the best it can. in fact, she's doing a lot of things right in the picture many of you think is so terrible. she is not interfering with her horse AT ALL, she's giving her horse plenty of release, and she is way off his back. exaggerated? maybe. would it win an eq class? of course not. that doesn't mean it's not acceptable or useful for the hunters. and, by the way, i have seen riders in the big eq with positions just as un-equitation-ish...and i've seen them get good ribbons! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

~*~it's all good...and i'm all that~*~

*~*DeSpErAtElY sEeKiNg An Eq HoRsE*~*

MKM
May. 8, 2002, 11:30 AM
I haven't read this whole thread and I've never seen Jessica Farmer ride but, in my opinion, here is the problem.....

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> in the hunters, equitation is not being judged, therefore, you should do what you need to do to make your horse jump and/or move the best it can. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

correct equitation should be exactly that (doing what you need to do to make your horse jump and/or move the best it can), not posing on a flat jumper.

This seems to be a recurring theme on MANY threads on this board. I am not active on the A circuit. Those who are, what can be done about this (what i see to be a) problem in the horse show world?

MKM
May. 8, 2002, 11:42 AM
by the way, Heather... When I used your quote I wasn't using it to agree/disagree, just using it b/c you used it to describe how you should ride in a hunter class and it makes sense to be that that should also be the description of how to ride in an eq class. But you're probably right about the Jessica Farmer thing, sounds like she's a more accomplished hunter rider than most of us here.

no longer a BBer
May. 8, 2002, 11:51 AM
It's KELLY Farmer. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Go Get 'Em Tiger!!!

gwen
May. 8, 2002, 11:55 AM
WHO CARES?????? Everyone has a different style of riding!!!!!!!! No one SHOULD look the same..that would make it awfully boring!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

**BARB***

House hunting on Long Island....we're looking at cardboard boxes..since that's all we can afford in a nice area....:)

MKM
May. 8, 2002, 11:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> It's KELLY Farmer. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

sorry, i think i know someone named Jessica Farmer that i went to high school with or something! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif weird

MKM
May. 8, 2002, 12:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> WHO CARES?????? Everyone has a different style of riding!!!!!!!! No one SHOULD look the same..that would make it awfully boring!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, but as long as there is showing with subjective judging, there HAS to be a standard. And the person who emulated that standard the best (in Eq I guess) wins.

Coreene
May. 8, 2002, 12:18 PM
When are these kids going to learn how to do an automatic release?

gwen
May. 8, 2002, 12:19 PM
OH, there's a standard!!! I know what I am trying to say, but just can't get it out!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Happens all the time!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

**BARB***

House hunting on Long Island....we're looking at cardboard boxes..since that's all we can afford in a nice area....:)

MKM
May. 8, 2002, 12:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> OH, there's a standard!!! I know what I am trying to say, but just can't get it out!!! Happens all the time!!!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I gotchya, happens to me more often than not /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Sparky22
May. 8, 2002, 12:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Coreene:
When are these kids going to learn how to do an automatic release?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

When their trainers start teaching it /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

~~Kate~~

--------------------------
I would sooner fail than not be among the greatest
-- John Keats

Coreene
May. 8, 2002, 12:59 PM
The mind reels.

slainte!
May. 8, 2002, 02:11 PM
i learned the automatic release from an event trainer.... i started competing in the eq in college, and the automatic release hasn't even been mentioned. kind of scary..... i think the auto release looks a LOT better than the crest....

-Liz
*Member of the Disgruntled College Student Clique!*
"The sight of that horse did something to me I've never quite been able to explain. He was more than tremendous strength and speed and beauty of motion. He set me dreaming" - Walt Morey

MKM
May. 8, 2002, 02:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> i think the auto release looks a LOT better than the crest.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

looks, schmooks, i'm talking effectiveness here, and it is MUCH more effective. (but, i am also in agreement with you that it looks better too).

JuniorJumper01
May. 8, 2002, 03:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gwen:
WHO CARES?????? Everyone has a different style of riding!!!!!!!! No one SHOULD look the same..that would make it awfully boring!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess that means I bring some excitement into the ring? LOL. (You've seen my pictures) /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif


~*Member of the TSAU Clique*~

jubilee220
May. 8, 2002, 04:13 PM
on the level of what i show, part of what is judged in equitation, is the performance of your horse. even in the PA State
4-H horse show rule book, it says something like this: the actions of the horse are results of the rider. the performance of the horse will be a portion of the judging in equitation classes.

from what i learned in hunters, the better you ride the better your horse goes, given that there are certain ways of riding in hunters that you wouldnt compromise for in eq. for my eq horses, call me weird, but i like horses with lots of scope, i equitate better. i feel like im riding them, not just showing. perhaps it was all those stubborn lesson ponies who would try and get you off in any manner they could? but i DO have a lot to learn from them, but i think i ride good on a scopey horse, should i find a flatter one to show on in higher levels? i just confused myself!
-jubilee

nothing beats my pony!

Kinsella
May. 8, 2002, 08:50 PM
My 2 cents worth: Whoever says you can't equitate on a horse that cracks it's back over the big jumps needs to look at this picture. I took this today... And this man has the best equitation of anyone I have seen in the hunters OR big eq classes in a long time.

Life is what happens while you are busy making plans.

Sparky22
May. 8, 2002, 08:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kinsella:
My 2 cents worth: Whoever says you can't equitate on a horse that cracks it's back over the big jumps needs to look at this picture. I took this today... And this man has the best equitation of anyone I have seen in the hunters OR big eq classes in a long time.

Life is what happens while you are busy making plans.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, you mean THE man /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

~~Kate~~

--------------------------
I would sooner fail than not be among the greatest
-- John Keats

dublin
May. 8, 2002, 09:01 PM
Joe Fargis puts on an equitation clinic everytime he shows, and truly illustrates the principle of "form equals function". 'Nuff said. /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Sparky22
May. 8, 2002, 09:15 PM
Anyone see the WEF GP (Tommy Bahama, I believe) when he was just inches from wiping out with his horse, made a full recovery to basically hand-gallop the rest of the course to a beautiful no-fault finish? The man recieved a standing ovation, the crowd was still clapping long after he left the ring. It was a beautiful ride!

~~Kate~~

--------------------------
I would sooner fail than not be among the greatest
-- John Keats

InWhyCee
May. 9, 2002, 07:08 AM
When they go to Europe and the Europeans smirk at them, while referring to their "pretty hands" and "ballerina toes."

"It is by no means the privilege of the rider to part with his horse solely by his own will." -- Alois Podhajsky

"Go on, Bill... This is no place for a pony."

Sparky22
May. 9, 2002, 08:08 AM
But how are the kids supposed to learn it if no one teaches it to them??

Maybe everyone should stop bashing the kids and start pointing fingers at the trainers. I once actually had someone tell me (not my regular trainer and not my trainer at school..it was another one that was watching one of my school lessons) to put my hands on the neck because it was equitation, not jumpers! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif I almost burst out laughing, along with a friend of mine from Europe who thinks the whole crest release thing is a load of crap.

If it's not taught, and the crest release is still pinned in the ring, people will keep on using it. And let's stop bashing all the kids because I see just as many adults riding around doing the same thing /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

~~Kate~~

--------------------------
I would sooner fail than not be among the greatest
-- John Keats

MKM
May. 9, 2002, 08:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Maybe everyone should stop bashing the kids and start pointing fingers at the trainers. I once actually had someone tell me <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

exactly, and the judges that pin it too. b/c trainers teach their kids what wins, and as long as that is what wins, it will be taught. it's a vicious cycle!

Flash44
May. 9, 2002, 08:27 AM
I see lots of auto releases in crest release people when they have to turn their horse over the jump. It's impossible not to use an auto when turning over the jump.

I'll tell you once more before I get off the floor don't bring me down...

InWhyCee
May. 9, 2002, 08:46 AM
I just got back from a CC holiday, where I learned very quickly that a pretty crest release doesn't help when you're galloping steps & banks on real hunters.(I should have known, having been raised to believe that crest releases were unacceptable over two feet, but that was in the Dark Ages, alas.)

"It is by no means the privilege of the rider to part with his horse solely by his own will." -- Alois Podhajsky

"Go on, Bill... This is no place for a pony."

still trying
May. 9, 2002, 12:43 PM
I had the pleasure of watching Emily Williams ride about 20 horses one morning. She went from the hunters to the jumpers and back again a few times. On Strapless in the Regular Hunters, she looked totally loose and like she was getting jumped off each time. The mare was in lovely form that day...knees to her ears. Then she was in the welcome stakes jumper class (I don't do the jumpers so I don't know how high the fences were but they looked huge) and she was sitting up with perfect eq like you have to do with the high jumpers and ended up with a 3rd or something like that in extremely good company(much of the Olympic team was in attendance).

So, I guess that my point is that Emily rides the hunters in a manner in which they perform best. Her form wasn't near as crazy as Kelly Farmer's but her horses were jumping equally as well. She rides the jumpers with the position they need. It's not that she couldn't have perfect eq each time out, it's just that she does what is BEST for the horse she's on. I think I saw that actual ride of Kelly Farmer's on Enchantment. We were watching with our mouths open. That mare was just exploding over the fences that day. I know she would have launched most of us and if we managed to stay on, then we certainly would have been off on the second fence of the lines. Whatever Kelly was doing was working very well, look at that picture!

Heather Dobbs
May. 9, 2002, 07:15 PM
i agree completely /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

~*~it's all good...and i'm all that~*~

*~*DeSpErAtElY sEeKiNg An Eq HoRsE*~*

DreamBigEq37
May. 10, 2002, 05:17 AM
You are right. I have seen Kelley Farmer ride many hunters, and they look phenomonal. She almost never makes a mistake like missing a distance, etc. If you look at the pics (most pics i have of her, but not that one, her leg is still pretty much properly positioned and she still has the heel to hip thing going on, so she must not be interfering with her horse. I think the way she lifts up over their backs frees their back and allows them to jump rounder.

I then saw her ride in a GP with Naomi in Ocala and barely recognized her, she rode so differently. She sat up, looked where she was going, had a perfect position over fences, and the mare looked wonderful, except where she misseed in the combination. They are still new to the GP ring, so I think that was the problem. Anyways, my point is, I think Kelley (and Emily too) are those rare riders that can feel the horse underneath them and what they want out of their riders, whether it be stillness or freeness and looseness. These are the true "riders" and not the "passengers."

Off my soapbox now... Thank you and goodnight.

*~*~Lauryn*~*~*~

<3 Justice Served <3
<3 Nip N Tuck <3

"Riding is sort of like Nuts and Bolts- If the rider's nuts, then the horse bolts."

Did You Hug Your Horse Today?

http://www10.brinkster.com/dreambig37/db/home/Snoopy

RoXyJK5
May. 11, 2002, 10:32 AM
Ms. Farmer apparently has quite a reputation and continues to clean-up at shows and make the best out of every ride. Her horse does not appear hesitant, she looks like she knows what she's doing...she has yet to fall off or throw the horse off balance.

Now, I myself ride with "equitation" but I do it to my own horses jump...my leg is at the girth(most of the time) and my hands are underneath my chin. Unless I am giving a long release. I think equitaton is a very important skill needed for riding. But everyone knows how their horse jumps so let them jump up to you and fold you into the correct position....you can't make a horse jump into the positon of your body, but you can mold your limbs to suit the jump...Example...jumping x-rails, your fold will not be quite as much as if you were jumping 3'. Yes, i do agree she is quite interesting looking in that picture, but it seems to work for her.

Jessica

jubilee220
May. 12, 2002, 04:39 PM
origanally posted by zaboobafo
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The kids work hard to be able to have perfect eq, and when they focus on it, they do it beautifully. However, when the goal is getting 8 outragous jumping efforts, or a clean fast course, they are not saying to themselves, are my heels down? Is my back straight? Is my eq perfect? Its just not the focus.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

obviously they do not have good equitation if it isnt habit. good eq is being with your horse, riding your horse to its best advantage, and i think we both agree there. but on hunters, when kids' legs are slipping on 3ft jumps, and they are jumping ahead, that is definatly not good eq. how is sloppy legs with no base of support "helping" the horse? if anything its sending their upper body off balance. as always, just my opinion.
-kate

nothing beats my pony!

jubilee220
May. 12, 2002, 08:05 PM
hey, okay, this is my LAST post on this thread. but i just want you guys to see this pic of my friend tyson; he is an event rider. This horse is jumping out of its skin, no its whole skeletol system for him. and great equitation. well, here i go with that classical style again. with this, its function. laying across the horses neck with your leg behind you, is not.
-kate

nothing beats my pony!

Sparky
May. 12, 2002, 09:47 PM
Sorry Jubilee, but what I see in your photo is a horse that, while he may be trying hard enough, is jumping with no impuslion from practically a standstill, while being throttled back by a rider who is using the reins to balance himself. My trainer calls this the "park and fly" effort.

Kryswyn
May. 12, 2002, 10:28 PM
While a quick glance could lead you to believe your friend is in balance with his horse, if you look harder you'll see he's really behind the motion of the horse, balancing as Sparky pointed out, on the horse's mouth.

Look at the picture and mentally erase the horse. Does Jess land on his feet or his butt?

Look at the much discussed pic of Kelly Farmer. Erase that fabulous! horse. Does she land on her feet or her face?

Jess lands on his butt. Kelly lands on her face because she's lifted her heel and is overbalanced, although her extreme angle actually mimics Enchanted's bascule, and as people have pointed out, she is not impeding the horse in anyway. I know Kelly has excellent form and uses it. But more importantly, she knows how to modify it when a horse's performance demands it.

~Kryswyn~
"Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo"

jubilee220
May. 13, 2002, 08:16 AM
being an event rider, i beg to differ with you guys. like someone had earlier posted, this is just a moment in time. But look, his leg is at the girth, he isnt ahead of the motion like so often seen in eq/hunters. practically straight line from hand to mouth. His balance is over his leg, and he is with the motion. if you mentally follow the jump.. as the horse moves into the height of the jump, his hand moves foward with it, while his leg stays at the girth, balancing him. given, at this moment his hand could be a little more foward, and elbow in, but this is event riding, and there isnt a set distance to each jump, this horse could have been going a little too forward for the dyke jump coming up, and the deep spot could be keeping the horse from galloping the fence flat. but thats why we should have video clips instead of pics!!!! i respect your opinions, you made good points, but i argue them! just me, being an event/eq/hunter rider. im not making much sense, thats just because i am really tired. Kelly Farmer is a very effective rider, and so is my friend here. He is doing what the horse needs, whether it be this horse has a problem and he is fixing it or what not. and thats what Ms Farmer does, she gives the horse what it needs. but in eventing, you cant jump like she does, or like "eq" kids for that matter. Staying tight in your tack and with the horse, at the same time helping him, isnt that equitation. lol here i go with 4H again, but one of our quiz bowl questions is "what is equitation" the answer: the art of horse-back riding

*flame suit donned* but is it really art when you are posing on a splinter belly packer? What Kelly Farmer does, and what my friend does, that in itself is art.

(okay so i understand that im not making sense...heh you'll get used to it after awhile...)
-kate

nothing beats my pony!

Flash44
May. 13, 2002, 09:02 AM
The event horse got really close to the jump and popped it. The rider seems like he is doing as best his can, and supported the horse to the base (the VERY base) of the jump, instead of throwing his head away and getting in front of him, which is what I usually do when I get really close to the base! The horse looks really athletic, and the rider looks prepared for anything that could happen, including the horse landing in a heap.

I'll tell you once more before I get off the floor don't bring me down...

Dementia 13
May. 13, 2002, 09:08 AM
Sorry, but it looks like he's balancing on the horse's mouth to me.

Hard to tell what's what from one little moment in time though.



"What lamp has destiny to guide her little children stumbling in the dark?"

InWhyCee
May. 13, 2002, 09:28 AM
... get down to brass tacks: Is Tyson over 18? Straight? Unmarried? Inquiring minds want to know...

"It is by no means the privilege of the rider to part with his horse solely by his own will." -- Alois Podhajsky

"Go on, Bill... This is no place for a pony."

jubilee220
May. 13, 2002, 09:50 AM
InWhyCee-
thats what really matters, RIGHT?!?! He is super cute...I mean it's devistating. He is over 18, actually, I think hes 20 or 21 and so, so charming. Unmarried...I'm perty darn sure. LOL HANDSOFF!!! hes mine...tehe
-kate

nothing beats my pony!

[This message was edited by jubilee220 on May. 13, 2002 at 08:58 PM.]

InWhyCee
May. 13, 2002, 11:15 AM
Well, if he's ever in New York, he can stay with me... call me Mrs. Robinson...

"It is by no means the privilege of the rider to part with his horse solely by his own will." -- Alois Podhajsky

"Go on, Bill... This is no place for a pony."

jubilee220
May. 13, 2002, 01:16 PM
you make me laugh!!! haha i will tell him to 'stop on by' for ya... there should definatly be more of the male populus in riding. if only they knew how many dates they would get if they would just talk horses for an hour... /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif but i guess that just isnt as fun or amusing as sitting in your underwear watching football /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
-kate

nothing beats my pony!

MHM
May. 13, 2002, 01:48 PM
First you post your friend's picture for the whole world to criticize, then you speculate on his orientation, including a farm name to identify him??

On the topic of releases, let's remember that another term for the automatic release is the "following hand," so if your hand is not following at all times in all circumstances (a la the great Joe Fargis, among others), what you're actually doing is not any kind of a release. The technical term is "catching your horse in the mouth," AKA the cardinal sin of jumping.

I've seen a few unsuccessful attempts lately at the automatic release, and I wish the people in question would stick wih the crest release, for the sake of their horses.

jubilee220
May. 13, 2002, 05:58 PM
good point, i changed it. i do tend to be a bit nieve at times....
-kate

nothing beats my pony!

Brydelle Farm
May. 13, 2002, 07:23 PM
wow, what a great discussion! it is a question that I ask myself constantly, though I rarely like the anwser I come up with.

I am from the old school, where having excellent eq wasn't an option, use or not, you decide? I was taught how to ride, to be a rider, not a passenger. So it wasn't the ride the flat jumper in eq so you can pose and the back cracker in hunters. And if that is the case now, then why show eq? So we can see who poses the best? No thank you, I want to see the best riders, the ones who can get a good ride out of any horse you put them on.

I am not in anyway saying that all the BigEq riders today are posers and if they are, they have come by it honestly. It is the trickle down theory, it is the trainers, judges, etc at the top of our sport that allow this to continue.

It is perpetuated by natural human instinct. We want what is easiest, and what do we get from it, instead of what can we give back to our sport, and in this case, what are we taking away from our sport to allow equitation (form and function) to become a competition of who poses the best on the quietest horse?

Horses jump as well as they are ridden. Granted some have more natural talent than others but if your ride well, they work/jump/show well.

JMHO, Thanks for listening!

Best wishes,

eqstrn