PDA

View Full Version : why is cribbing bad?



skippy60
May. 1, 2012, 11:23 PM
Besides the fact that it is annoying, that is. This is just a question that ive had for a while...

I know what cribbing is, but are there any sort of problems associated with cribbing?

Simkie
May. 1, 2012, 11:28 PM
Some horses will crib rather than eat, and lose weight.

Some horses will wear their teeth down to nubs cribbing.

Some horses will use and build their neck muscles cribbing in a way that makes it difficult for them to come over their backs and use their necks in the appropriate way we require when we ride.

Some horses will DESTROY barns cribbing.

When I had a cribber, he did not destroy barns, he did not crib rather than eat, he did not build up the "wrong" neck muscles and he did not wear down his teeth. He seemed happier when allowed to crib, so--as he didn't hit any of the above points--we just let him. :)

IME, cribbers are often quite clever horses as well.

nashfad
May. 2, 2012, 02:31 AM
When they "suck" with the accessory muscles don't they suck air into their stomach (I was told that yrs ago) and that makes them more susceptible to colic? I have no idea if that is true.

Nezzy
May. 2, 2012, 09:20 AM
When they suck wind, they are more prone to colic.

Laurierace
May. 2, 2012, 09:23 AM
I think the being more prone to colic is due to ulcers more than cribbing itself. Annoying and destructive is reason enough to avoid it if possible.

Simkie
May. 2, 2012, 10:31 AM
When they suck wind, they are more prone to colic.

I thought this was proven incorrect quite some time ago--I think it was fairly fresh research when I had my cribber, about 15 years ago.

Horses do not take air into their stomach when they crib.

nashfad
May. 2, 2012, 10:34 AM
Well, that's good to know.

EquineImagined
May. 2, 2012, 10:44 AM
I thought this was proven incorrect quite some time ago--I think it was fairly fresh research when I had my cribber, about 15 years ago.

Horses do not take air into their stomach when they crib.

My friend's cribber must have just been abnormally prone to gas colic for other reasons, then. Can't really say, never met him.

I had a cribber. Loved her to bits, except for her nasty little habit. Her top front teeth were worn down from it. She'd latch onto anything solid, wood, metal, managed it on a rubber bucket once that I saw. Made my nicotine addiction seem mild by comparison. Miracle collar 'ceased' the behavior. But she'd spend more time cribbing than doing anything else, soon as the collar came off she was looking for something to crib on.

You can always tell if a barn has had a cribber/chewer. Destructive little habit that.

Bluey
May. 2, 2012, 10:50 AM
Cribbing is a repetitive motion activity and as such detrimental to good health.

Think how long before,say, your right knee would wear out if you continuously were swinging it, all day long, could not stand still without swinging it.

A horse that cribs , weaves, walks incessantly, self mutilates or such repetitive motions is doing that to whatever is involved in such obsessive/compulsive type behaviors.:(

Remember, there is no action without reaction/consequences.
Think about the consequences of doing the same over and over and over and over ...

Even lack of motion, a horse that just stands around all day and won't exercise a minimum will get stiffer and stiffer and out of shape, that would be the other extreme from over the top movements as so many OCD compulsions can be.

Best to try for a happy medium.:yes:

SwampYankee
May. 2, 2012, 11:49 AM
Cribbing to me is the equine equivalent of a crack addict. When they latch on and windsuck, scientists have deterimined they are directly stimulating the pleasure center of the brain--releasing natural opiates. That's why once they start the habit is almost impossible to break.

In addition to damaging your facility, a big reason you don't want a cribber in your barn is other horses can pick up the habit from that one, particularly in a stabled situation where boredom is a factor. This is a major concern with young horses.

I normally won't take a bad one; but once in awhile someone says "Oh, he only does it a little" and when he gets in here we find out he's a fiend.

I don't doubt that they often begin it as a way to "self-medicate" for ulcers or pain elsewhere in the body; but I've had at least 3 here over the years who will happily romance a fence rail rather than eat 40 acres of prime grass pasture. ;)
On 24/7 turnout, ulcers are less likely to be a factor. One guy, a WB built like a tank, cribbed so long and hard his front teeth were eventually completely gone!

By the way, if anybody knows of a "strap" that works better than the standard ones or the Weaver Miracle Collar, please let me know. I've got one out there who goes right through even that. . . he needs to eat so I can't put him in the muzzle type. What's anyone tried that works?

Simkie
May. 2, 2012, 11:57 AM
In addition to damaging your facility, a big reason you don't want a cribber in your barn is other horses can pick up the habit from that one, particularly in a stabled situation where boredom is a factor. This is a major concern with young horses.

I believe there have been MULTIPLE studies that have proven this one false.

Cribbing does seem to have a high genetic component, though. If the sire or dam cribs, the foal is more likely to crib, even if it NEVER sees another horse cribbing.

Tivas_a_Diva
May. 2, 2012, 12:05 PM
In addition to damaging your facility, a big reason you don't want a cribber in your barn is other horses can pick up the habit from that one, particularly in a stabled situation where boredom is a factor. This is a major concern with young horses.


I've heard this as well, but assuming it is an exception to the rule? My horse was turned out with (just them two in their paddock) and stabled across from a cribber for about 2 years, and never once tried, attempted to or thought about (LOL:lol:) picking up the habit. She's not a young horse so maybe that is a factor...

jconnors
May. 2, 2012, 12:07 PM
I use this on my cribber. He doesn't seem to crib thru it either.
http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=d1289516-bc6f-4134-8134-ce5ca8ea9df8&gas=cribbing strap

EquineImagined
May. 2, 2012, 12:16 PM
The problem I see a lot with a lot of crib straps is for them to work properly you almost have to tighten them til you feel like it's abusive, and go one more hole.

Whin would drop her head (which in turn made the strap looser, and she knew it) and shake her head so the strap was not positioned properly and crib away with every collar we tried before the Miracle Collar. That went on, only time she cribbed after that was if I turned her out after a ride and had forgotten to put it on.

Worked at a barn once, horse had wires on his teeth. Kind of reminded me of braces. Obviously a vet had to do this. For the longest time I just ignored them (although he was a tad nippy and those things scared the crap out of me when he'd turn for a nip) but I finally asked what they were for. He WAS a cribber. Emphasis on was.

The whole time I worked there I never once saw that horse crib, so I guess they work.

And somewhere on one of these forums someone posted about some surgery that can prevent cribbing? Not 100% sure on that one though. Seems a bit extreme. But, all around, cribbing is just not good. Physically, mentally, for the facility....

deltawave
May. 2, 2012, 12:28 PM
I've always sort of looked at it like a neurosis of sorts, and wonder if the prototypical "poor doer" cribber is just cribbing because something bothers it all the time (physical, mental, whatever) rather than the cribbiing itself being physically bad in terms of colic, etc. Or, put another way, some horses crib just like some people self-mutilate or scratch themselves raw or pull their hair out . . . they have a compulsion to do so. And this may be linked to general anxiety which is also detrimental to their health. So it isn't the stereotypical behavior that makes the victim sick/anxious/thin/ulcery/colicky but the coexistent anxiety.

Not sure there's a shred of evidence to support this, however. :)

TrotTrotPumpkn
May. 2, 2012, 12:34 PM
Crack Addict--YES!

Destructive, bad neck muscling, usually ulcer prone or anxious types in my experience,boarding barns don't want to board your cribber (like literally, would not take us), in other words, all the reasons listed by others.

I had a bad cribber and to control it with the strap it had to be TIGHT and he got terrible rubs. I would have to wash and replace the fleece liner every couple days. It traps moisture there and they get sores if you are not hyper-vigilant (and even then it sometimes happens). He was also ulcer-prone.

Regarding the surgery--I remember being told it works better on very young horses. I don't know what the success rate is on an older horse. A horse in the barn had it done (really gross--it is a "real" procedure). He recovered and did not crib, but was shortly sold, so I don't know if he cribs now that he is older or if it worked.

Before I bred my mare I questioned all the stallion owners if their studs cribbed. Some of them scoffed at me or were annoyed (I mean who cares if it is an FEI or Olympic stallion was the attitude). I do! I think there can be a genetic component--I knew a line that was full of cribbers. Makes you wonder. Maybe it is because of some underlying stomach issues that line has too...

Finally, my cribber never caused any other horse to crib (30 horses around him). Just my experience.

SaratogaTB
May. 2, 2012, 12:40 PM
I've also heard that it's a myth that other horses pick up cribbing by watching cribbers. Recent research points to genetics.

I second the recommendation of the DARE collar. My gelding doesnt crib at all when wearing it. And to me, it feels the most humane.

AliCat518
May. 2, 2012, 12:58 PM
We have a HORRIBLE cribber. He had the cribbing rings in between his teeth when we got him. We thought they looked really mean and painful so we had them taken out. Totally regret it now. Collars do nothing to stop this horse. He cribs on everything...fences, metal panels (?) trucks, cars, buckets, you name it.

He seems like he has anxiety about something. It truly seems like an addiction. Crack addict is the right way to describe it. He has weird muscling from it. He's a Hancock horse...I wonder if it's in his genes??

MoonWitch
May. 2, 2012, 01:09 PM
For all the studies that say that it isn't picked up by other horses .....BULL DINKIES!!

I have a 25yo cribber with no front teeth at all. He is on pasture all day and comes in at night. He only cribs when he eats and then only for a few minutes. He doesn't crib eating hay; only grain or treats and will occassionaly wander over to the fence to crib when turned out. He doesn't destroy wood or boards but uses the fence post instead.

DD's horse was NEVER a cribber in the years that we had him until we moved to our new place four years ago where he was turned out with my guy. YUP, he's now a cribber & will suck on anything he can get his teeth on! I believe his to be more of an anxiety (OTTB) issue.

Both are in good weight and have no other issues.

analise
May. 2, 2012, 01:10 PM
I used to know an OTTB at the barn I used to be at. She was a serious cribber. She was so bad, she would be seriously stressed if a cribbing collar was used on her. Luckily, the barn she was in had metal over the horizontal surfaces (so the worst she could do was wear down the paint but in the grand scheme of things, no real damage) and the field was fenced with high tensile wire so she could only crib on the posts out there (all of them in her field had an angle to the top of the post where she'd worn them down but they were otherwise undamaged). Unfortunately, she was also had chronic problems with gas colic and ulcers and was a hard keeper so she was eventually put down.

So yeah, cribbing isn't healthy and can be destructive.

That said, I do not believe other horses learn it from watching since the farm that mare I mentioned was on had over thirty horses and none of them, young or old, picked up the habit just from being around her.

I do believe it's possible if a horse is genetically predisposed that if they see another horse doing it, they'll figure it out and thus become cribbers but they would likely have become cribbers eventually anyway whether they saw that horse or another one do it or figured it out on their own.

deltawave
May. 2, 2012, 02:00 PM
One has to wonder about the horse-keeping when multiple horses brought into a new barn start cribbing. I've never had one "pick up" cribbing even with prolonged exposure to die-hard cribbers, but we're talking 8-10 horses, not 100. :lol:

My old OTTB mare cribbed maybe once or twice in a week . . . just a couple of quick "gulps" and never at any other time than when she ate and never more than this. Her daughter does the EXACT same thing, only she never "gulps" but rather just fixes her teeth on the feed tub, bites down briefly, then quits. Same frequency--once or twice every now and then, never more.

animaldoc
May. 2, 2012, 02:05 PM
Cribbing is associated with a specific lesion (epiploic foramen entrapment) that causes surgical colic:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14989551

The "horses learn cribbing from other horses" thing has been studied and hasn't been shown to be true - BUT that would be a pretty hard thing to study (what if the horses that were the non-cribbers just weren't predisposed to learn *anything* visually, what if mare/foal pairs pass it on more, etc.), so I know people that swear that it can be learned, and I don't doubt them.

deltawave
May. 2, 2012, 02:09 PM
It's so hard to say 'always' and 'never' when dealing with behavior anyway.

magicteetango
May. 2, 2012, 02:16 PM
Agreed with Delta, I have had 3 cribbers over the years boarded at multiple facilities... And I do not use a collar in the pasture usually, so they do crib sometimes in front of ithers. Never has another horse, foals and young horses included, picked it up. Nor have I ever had a horse develop cribbing in my ownership. All 3 of those horses had an ibjury or surgery prior to my purchase of them, 2 of those required stall rest. The other picked it up while being boarded in a situation with almost no turnout and poor feeding, according to his former owner. No offense meant but the people I know who havehad horses develop cribbing in multiple horses usually had management issues. Not always the case, but from my experience it was the common denominator.

That being said, I would only take another cribber if the horse was really stellar. Lots of damage to my fence posts, and my first heart horse collicked and died of an entrapment, which Peterson Smith said was a one in a million from cribbing. Broke my heart.

PRS
May. 2, 2012, 02:31 PM
I've owned two cribbers. It is a destructive habit to your fences, buckets, stall gates, paddock gates, any horizontal or vertical surface is free game. It will wear the front teeth down to nubs, it will cause un-natural muscling of the neck and back area, the horse doesn't move around his environment as a normal horse should and the noise they make is just irritating. It is one of the habits that is a for sure deal breaker for me. I will never willingly bring home another cribber.

IMHO it is a habit that almost always begins when a horse is forced to live in an unnatural habitat (ie 12x12 stall) for long periods of time. I rarely see the habit in horses that have lots of turnout (12 hours or more per day) and I've never seen it begin in a 24/7 pasture kept horse. Doesn't mean it can't happen but it would have to be fairly rare.

SmartAlex
May. 2, 2012, 02:34 PM
I just Googled cribbing rings. Yowser. That'd make me stop.

Kind of like hog rings.

starrunner
May. 2, 2012, 02:42 PM
I've seen a few horses with the cribbing rings, but seemed pretty brutal to me.

I have known one cribber that still cribbed with 24/7 turnout, but he was an OTTB that began cribbing on the track and had a stressful rehab period (broke a cannon), etc.

Other cribbers in this same group, seemed only to crib during a grain fed meal. There were several horses that came that "were" cribbers and never cribbed while turned out.

Some sold, reverted to the old habits.

Large herd of horses...60+ and none ever picked up on the die hard cribber or the grain fed cribbers. However, a fairly low stress environment with no stalled horses.

I have always wondered if horses that "learn" from another, just begin the habit from the same stress that the cribbers feel? I also believe there is a major genetic component to whether a horse does/doesn't crib.

AliCat518
May. 2, 2012, 02:46 PM
PRS, our gelding is out 24/7 on 150 acres of grass and woods with a creek as well. Very natural environment. :) Before we had him, he was out 24/7 as well. BUT we do not know where he was before that--so perhaps he was stalled most of the day. (Hancock horse, shipped to VA sometime after he was born).

SmartAlex--when I saw them for the first time in person, I was HORRIFIED. Now, I would not hesitate to put those b*tches back in because this horse is that destructive. He has chewed all down the sides of my truck, tailgate, ripped my windshield wipers up, bit part of my window rainguard off, etc.........

TrotTrotPumpkn
May. 2, 2012, 03:10 PM
Re: Dare Collar,

I tried that (was pretty excited because it does seem a lot nicer) and he cribbed right through it. The only thing that worked for my horse was the double strap type collar. Really depressing, actually.

His cribbing went down drastically when I treated him for ulcers with Gastrogard/ulcergard. At least for awhile. He was also on alfalfa and 24x7 turnout to a huge pasture. He was many years off the track.

The horse would have to be doing grand prixs for me to take another cribber.

TrotTrotPumpkn
May. 2, 2012, 03:14 PM
Cribbing is associated with a specific lesion (epiploic foramen entrapment) that causes surgical colic:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14989551

The "horses learn cribbing from other horses" thing has been studied and hasn't been shown to be true - BUT that would be a pretty hard thing to study (what if the horses that were the non-cribbers just weren't predisposed to learn *anything* visually, what if mare/foal pairs pass it on more, etc.), so I know people that swear that it can be learned, and I don't doubt them.

What is "epiploic foramen entrapment (EFE) of the small intestine in horses" in laymans terms? This is the first time I have heard about that--very interesting.

RunHikeGolden
May. 2, 2012, 03:22 PM
http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/cribbing-rings-cruel-or-effective

rcloisonne
May. 2, 2012, 03:26 PM
What is "epiploic foramen entrapment (EFE) of the small intestine in horses" in laymans terms?
From my understanding it's a hernia. Knew a horse that had to be put down from this. Not at all uncommon but most vets describe it as a hernia for the owner. It can be visualized via ultrasound. Not sure what it has to do with cribbing though.

Simkie
May. 2, 2012, 03:29 PM
Wiki to the rescue: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse_colic#Epiploic_foramen_entrapment

It appears to be when a small loop of intestine slips through a small opening within the body and circulation is cut off.

redhorse5
May. 2, 2012, 03:59 PM
Well here's the plus for cribbing. i bought a very confirmed GP Danish gelding who at the time was 15 for about 10% of his value if he hadn't been a cribber. I put the Miracle collar on him and he never did it unless someone forgot the collar. He lived until he was 36. I rode him until he was 27 and he could still do tempi changes and piaffe and passage until his retirement. I would have never been able to afford a horse like this if he weren't a cribber. He was a wonderful horse who was amateur perfect. We put complete beginners on him for lessons.

SwampYankee
May. 2, 2012, 07:17 PM
Cribbing is associated with a specific lesion (epiploic foramen entrapment) that causes surgical colic:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14989551

The "horses learn cribbing from other horses" thing has been studied and hasn't been shown to be true - BUT that would be a pretty hard thing to study (what if the horses that were the non-cribbers just weren't predisposed to learn *anything* visually, what if mare/foal pairs pass it on more, etc.), so I know people that swear that it can be learned, and I don't doubt them.

I have no doubt "studies show" LOTS of things; but I'm sure not willing to take a chance on my nice babies becoming cribbers if there's even one chance in a thousand it could be a learned behavior. No, thanks! :winkgrin:

animaldoc
May. 2, 2012, 09:46 PM
What is "epiploic foramen entrapment (EFE) of the small intestine in horses" in laymans terms?
It's kind of a "potential space" in the abdomen that becomes an "actual space' when the small intestine goes in it - apparently that happens more often in horses that crib than in horses that don't....

Nezzy
May. 2, 2012, 10:42 PM
i agree that it is only "LEARNED" from others when the horse is already predisposed to it. I have seen the very worst cribber not affect any other horse in the barn (i was there for many years).

I now have a cribber. One time i put the "miracle collar' on him in the pasture. another boarder thought it was ineffective and tightened it too tight. my poor horse was in agony. That day i took it home and hid it. I have not had to use it in the 6-7 yrs i have owned him.

i choose instead, to ask the farm owner if i can buy the supplies to crib proof. My horse is out 24/7. He gets 24/7 good hay. In his turnout shelter i have put strips of 1/2 inch fencing around the inside where he can crib. it is not a danger to him, but hurts when he puts his lips near the edge. I also strung electric fence( hot wire) along the top fence rails and the top of each post. This is hooked up to a solar charger. My horse does wonderfully with this set up.

a cribber who is die hard, would need more than solar, but this works for my guy. And i never have to put uncomfortable straps on. I also try to work him often, b/c he cribs mostly when he is bored. ( if he is able)

My vet said he does not exhibit the signs of a horse with ulcers, he eats everything you give him, etc..So we never scoped him. i did give him probios for a few years but taking him off made no difference, so i would rather not spend the money if it does not seem to matter either way.

HenryisBlaisin'
May. 3, 2012, 12:49 AM
In addition to the above, horses can get splinters in their mouths and tongues from cribbing or chewing on wood. Ouch!

PRS
May. 3, 2012, 08:27 AM
PRS, our gelding is out 24/7 on 150 acres of grass and woods with a creek as well. Very natural environment. :) Before we had him, he was out 24/7 as well. BUT we do not know where he was before that--so perhaps he was stalled most of the day. (Hancock horse, shipped to VA sometime after he was born).
.

I've never seen the habit START in a horse out 24/7 but once they've acquired the habit being out 24/7 won't break it. When I did turn my cribbers out they didn't crib as much as when they were stalled though.

Roxyllsk
May. 3, 2012, 08:52 AM
My friend owns the most determined cribber that I've ever met. She won't put a cribbing collar on him because he gets so sulky about it.

She moved him home a few years ago, but he has cribbed all of the screw rings off the walls in his stall ; he's cribbed the latches off the FRONTS of the stall ; he can't crib on the fence because it's electric, but he has killed almost all the big trees in the pasture because he cribs on them and has worn a ring of bark off the trees at 'cribbing height'. He is now cribbing on their new chicken coop that is in the pasture, some of the shingles are already gone off the sides of the roof.

He is out 24 / 7 with buddies and he still does this - he is an OTTB and came with the habit. And he is very, very prone to colic when the weather changes.

Personally he'd have that collar on him and cranked if he were mine. He'd have to get over being sulky. He's so destructive.

sportinghorsepolo
May. 3, 2012, 10:08 AM
I've had success with the French Cribbing Strap, after trying several others that my filly merrily cribbed right through.

Beam Me Up
May. 3, 2012, 10:15 AM
I've had a few, but aside from the annoyance of putting on the strap and adding hotwire to the fencing if you don't have it already, I don't think it's that big a deal.

Mine weren't destructive or losing weight with the collar on (I had the best luck with the simple nutcracker ones, covered in fleece). I definitely prefer a non-cribber, but the ones I've had weren't too inconvenient.

Monokeros
May. 3, 2012, 10:23 AM
My gelding cribs and it's really not too bad. He cribs through the collar, but it does seem to slow him down. He's on 24/7 pasture board and still does it. Luckily he likes firm surfaces, so rarely does it on anything other than the run-in shed. He's not committed, just a few here and there. I'm thinking of giving him a jolly ball to see if that distracts him.

He actually seemed to like a stall better, but this is cheaper and gives him unlimited hay. We'll see, I may switch him around.

There's another mare at the barn who is AWFUL. She will crib on anything! That kind of cribber I wouldn't touch.

(On another note: Bravo is in the Miracle Collar now. Is it worth trying another collar? This slows him down but doesn't stop him.)

Bluey
May. 3, 2012, 12:28 PM
We had a broodmare, a Princequillo daughter, that cribbed so bad she would stand all day in the pasture, while the other mares left to go grazing and until they came back, cribbing on the top of a fence post, her foal bored alone.
When we fed, she go eat a bit of alfalfa, then back to the stump to crib.

We didn't keep her but a few months, maybe someone else with different management could keep her doing better, she didn't fit with our broodmares.

vtdobes
May. 3, 2012, 12:48 PM
I've never seen the habit START in a horse out 24/7 but once they've acquired the habit being out 24/7 won't break it. When I did turn my cribbers out they didn't crib as much as when they were stalled though.

Happened to me!

I had a gelding I bought when he was 4 who cribbed since the day he was born practically (his mother was a terrible cribber). I raised two foals in the same barn as he...one is now 8 and the other is 3 and neither of them cribbed. My cribber gelding was just put down in December at the age of 30...healthy his entire life (no top teeth of course!). My 3 yr old, who lives out 24/7 and has for the last year, started cribbing about 2 months *after* my lifelong cribber gelding died.

I've hotwired all of his posts (all I ever saw him crib on were the fence posts) and hopefully have nipped this soon enough that the habit can be broken. I hope. I lived with a cribber for 26 years and was happy that my remaining two did not!

SaratogaTB
May. 3, 2012, 01:21 PM
I've had success with the French Cribbing Strap, after trying several others that my filly merrily cribbed right through.

I recently got this (Tory makes it I think) to have as my "alternate" strap. the DARE collar works perfectly, but I would like to do one week on, one week off with two straps so his skin gets a break.

I tried the french strap this past week. It has a different shape, when I look at the horse, each side "wings out". In the morning, the entire strap was rotated. I suspect that when he laid down in his stall, the "winged out" area just rotated from his weight. Does this make sense? Or does this mean I didnt have it tight enough?

vxf111
May. 3, 2012, 01:52 PM
I just Googled cribbing rings. Yowser. That'd make me stop.

Kind of like hog rings.

That's what they are.

magicteetango
May. 3, 2012, 03:09 PM
Monokeros, I am not a miracle collar fan. If I tightened it enough, it gave my mare headaches. Otherwise it was useless and moved quite a bit. I would get the nutcracker one and cover it in fleece. Use your miracle to alternate so your horse does not get eubs if he has sensitive skin.

slp2
May. 3, 2012, 11:24 PM
I now own my first cribber! Is there a clique I can be in??? ;) However, she definitely chooses grazing over cribbing, and the guy who sold me her used a leather strap (not even a cribbing strap) around her throat to stop it. And it works, so I have kept the strap, added a fleece cover to it--and she wears it at night while in the stall. She does not have any weight problems, nor does she not crib enough to damage anything. Supposedly her mom was a cribber--so unfortunately, she was 3 when I got her and she had already learned it from Mom!

One interesting thing is that when I show at KY horse park, I noticed that she couldn't find anything in the stalls to crib on. She didn't wear her strap and she didn't crib all weekend. I decided that if I ever build my own barn, I am going to make a replica of their stall design for her!

So, other than the smooshed part of her mane from the strap, I really haven't noticed any other problems. But again, food is way more appealing to her than cribbing, so I guess she isn't a diehard cribber.

anna's girl
May. 4, 2012, 12:43 AM
My mare is a mild cribber. No weight problems, no colic in 6 years and she doesn't destroy/chew.
If it wasn't barn policy I wouldn't put the collar on her. She was without the collar for two years with the same results.

FLeventer
May. 4, 2012, 01:03 AM
My friends gelding tore apart buckets, fences, and anything he could get his teeth on. She did not want a collar on him because it was mean. She would see the damage and say that it was not her problem. I thought it was so rude but not my issue and could do nothing to change her. The barn owner just put a muzzle on him in the stall so he would stop destroying everything. He was a welsh/tb and got a lot of time out but still cribbed like crazy.

My two cribbing horses were well managed with a collar. I had the nutcracker with fleece and a leather band collar.

Ozone
May. 4, 2012, 01:23 PM
By the way, if anybody knows of a "strap" that works better than the standard ones or the Weaver Miracle Collar, please let me know. I've got one out there who goes right through even that. . . he needs to eat so I can't put him in the muzzle type. What's anyone tried that works?

The Rusty Dare collar IS THE best! It is one strap and it is not deathly tight. My horse has not cribbed a bit with it on and he is a TOP DOG cribber :)

Tried the miraicle collar - was no miraicle for him. It was so tight, always had to adjust it, he got dents on his head and he still cribbed!

Horses that crib seem to be quite intellegent for some reason.

Ozone
May. 4, 2012, 01:30 PM
.

IMHO it is a habit that almost always begins when a horse is forced to live in an unnatural habitat (ie 12x12 stall) for long periods of time. I rarely see the habit in horses that have lots of turnout (12 hours or more per day) and I've never seen it begin in a 24/7 pasture kept horse. Doesn't mean it can't happen but it would have to be fairly rare.

I have the horse that is in the 'fairly rare' percentile. 24/7 turn out from a baby until a year go. Pasture turn out with lovely trees etc. He leared to crib on the trees. Never stalled before. Now he is in his 'unnatural habitat' lol btw, and is doing just fine. Wear his collar, yes but he is just fine.

wendy
May. 4, 2012, 01:41 PM
I've always sort of looked at it like a neurosis of sorts, and wonder if the prototypical "poor doer" cribber is just cribbing because something bothers it all the time (physical, mental, whatever) rather than the cribbiing itself being physically bad in terms of colic, etc. Or, put another way, some horses crib just like some people self-mutilate or scratch themselves raw or pull their hair out . . . they have a compulsion to do so. And this may be linked to general anxiety which is also detrimental to their health. So it isn't the stereotypical behavior that makes the victim sick/anxious/thin/ulcery/colicky but the coexistent anxiety.

Not sure there's a shred of evidence to support this, however.

that's always been my thinking. And then these horses are probably suffering some kind of mental or emotional disorder that they self-treat by cribbing, and along comes some owner determined to prevent them from cribbing- not by treating the real problem, but just by stopping the symptom of the problem, with the collars and the rings etc.
You would think someone would be looking into medication to treat the mental problem instead. Searches only find this, though:


Pharmacol Biochem Behav. 2001 Jan;68(1):49-51.

The effect of the NMDA receptor blocker, dextromethorphan, on cribbing in horses.

Rendon RA, Shuster L, Dodman NH.


Source

Department of Clinical Sciences, School of Veterinary Medicine, Tufts University, 200 Westboro Road, North Grafton, MA 01536, USA.


Abstract

Stereotypic cribbing in horses is thought to involve excess dopaminergic activity within the striatum. Various models of stress-induced stereotypies including cribbing in horses postulate that stress stimulates the release of endorphins, triggering the release of striatal dopamine. Dopamine in turn activates basal ganglia motor programs, reinforcing behavior via a reward mechanism. Furthermore, the release of dopamine by endorphins has been shown to depend on activation of NMDA receptors. In the present study, horses identified as cribbers and volunteered by their owners were treated with the NMDA receptor antagonist dextromethorphan (DM). When DM was administered via jugular injection (1 mg/kg), eight of nine horses responded with reductions in cribbing rate (CR) compared to baseline, and cribbing was suppressed completely for a period of time in almost half of the horses tested.


PMID: 11274707 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

deltawave
May. 4, 2012, 01:50 PM
That was a thing I had on my facebook page for a while: "Dopamine and Serotonin: the only two things you *really* enjoy". :D

okggo
May. 4, 2012, 02:10 PM
On, the "learned" behavior aspect, I used to work at a large facility with a variety of horses, and none learned the cribbing behavior from the cribbers. They were out in large pastures and managed well, over all.

I was at a smaller farm that had one cribber. His pasture bud started cribbing. A weanling on the farm started cribbing, and one other adult non-cribber started wood chewing. This place stalled 12 hours a day and longer if the weather was bad. Hay was fairly limited (2 flakes/feeding) and they were largely grained. I think there was more going on here - perhaps they started to get ulcery and picked it up from the one cribber, but I really don't think it was just learned, I think the environmental issues also played into effect. I would bet if they were out 24/7 in large pastures with ample hay/grass they wouldn't have even tried. In fact the gut needs 24/7 grazing for optimal health, the two big meals a day kind of program does not promote that.

Riverview
May. 4, 2012, 02:10 PM
Over the years we have had a few cribbers in our barn. Some boarders, some ours. A couple seemed more prone to colic, but could have been prone to colic anyways. Most have been harder to keep weight on. Each responded or didnt respond to different treatment. One we went through all sorts of collars which would work for a week or so, ended up in a metal muzzle that his mommy thought was mean and he learned to crib ON the muzzle. Funny the owners didnt like anything kept on him cause it was mean...they took him home to their new farm and got rid of him in a month or so because he was destroying their fence and barn. I dont mind a cribber if they are a pretty stellar horse. We have one. He cribs like mad, on just about everything, no colic and no teeth damage. Will not crib with a miracle collar but it gives him headaches and he goes a bit nuttzo so we stopped even trying. He is one of my best lesson horses and overall an awesome guy so we tolerate him.
As far as how cribbing starts I have seen a variety. We have never had a horse learn it from another. We had one start it appeared after he came to our farm. Not a big change in how he was cared for, he didnt seem stressed, just started cribbing about a week after we got him. Had a couple that we sold start to crib after leaving us. For places with MORE turnout! I think some it can stem from boredom, discomfort, ulcers, stress etc, but I think others just have a predisposition for it and will start eventually. BTW most of the cribbers we have had were not stressed out high strung or nervous horses. The whys of cribbing are a mystery to me! But the effects can range greatly from seemingly none at all other than some minor fencing repair needed to colic, no teeth, weight loss etc stc

ljcfoh
May. 4, 2012, 04:17 PM
I believe there have been MULTIPLE studies that have proven this one false.

Cribbing does seem to have a high genetic component, though. If the sire or dam cribs, the foal is more likely to crib, even if it NEVER sees another horse cribbing.

Simkie, so far your right on for both points!

Cribbing doesn't make them more prone to colic and horses don't pick up the habit around cribbers -- but if their mother cribs yes a baby may start as it does appear to be hereditary in nature. It is my belief that some of the intensity people employ attempting to stop cribbing is what makes horses do it more by making them more nervous/uncomfortable.

ljcfoh
May. 4, 2012, 04:23 PM
that's always been my thinking. And then these horses are probably suffering some kind of mental or emotional disorder that they self-treat by cribbing, and along comes some owner determined to prevent them from cribbing- not by treating the real problem, but just by stopping the symptom of the problem, with the collars and the rings etc.
You would think someone would be looking into medication to treat the mental problem instead. Searches only find this, though:


Pharmacol Biochem Behav. 2001 Jan;68(1):49-51.

The effect of the NMDA receptor blocker, dextromethorphan, on cribbing in horses.

Rendon RA, Shuster L, Dodman NH.


Source

Department of Clinical Sciences, School of Veterinary Medicine, Tufts University, 200 Westboro Road, North Grafton, MA 01536, USA.


Abstract

Stereotypic cribbing in horses is thought to involve excess dopaminergic activity within the striatum. Various models of stress-induced stereotypies including cribbing in horses postulate that stress stimulates the release of endorphins, triggering the release of striatal dopamine. Dopamine in turn activates basal ganglia motor programs, reinforcing behavior via a reward mechanism. Furthermore, the release of dopamine by endorphins has been shown to depend on activation of NMDA receptors. In the present study, horses identified as cribbers and volunteered by their owners were treated with the NMDA receptor antagonist dextromethorphan (DM). When DM was administered via jugular injection (1 mg/kg), eight of nine horses responded with reductions in cribbing rate (CR) compared to baseline, and cribbing was suppressed completely for a period of time in almost half of the horses tested.


PMID: 11274707 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

All I can say is of the two I had most recently that were cribbers, I kept hay in front of them 24x7, ample turnout and no paraphernalia to attempt to control it (no collars, muzzles) and both cribbed on a limited basis. If at times the situation changed (at a horse show for example) they might crib more but once home a good environment made them moderate to light cribbers again. Cribbing is definitely stress related (direct or indirect) in my opinion.

Tehzebra
May. 4, 2012, 05:48 PM
When Cribbing turns to Wind Sucking, thats when things get bad. We had a mare, 24/7 turn out, start cribbing on the fences and trees one day. Tried French Collar....never stayed on properly and the kids would never put it on tight enough. Eventually, her cribbing progressed to plain ole wind sucking.... she wouldn't bite onto anything, she would just stand there and crib on the air. The collars wouldnt stop it. She would sometimes crib while being ridden if stopped for too long. I guess only plus side was the damage to the fences slowed down significantly.... Im not really sure what became of her though....

Nezzy
May. 6, 2012, 08:22 AM
When Cribbing turns to Wind Sucking, thats when things get bad. We had a mare, 24/7 turn out, start cribbing on the fences and trees one day. Tried French Collar....never stayed on properly and the kids would never put it on tight enough. Eventually, her cribbing progressed to plain ole wind sucking.... she wouldn't bite onto anything, she would just stand there and crib on the air. The collars wouldnt stop it. She would sometimes crib while being ridden if stopped for too long. I guess only plus side was the damage to the fences slowed down significantly.... Im not really sure what became of her though....

Cribbing IS windsucking. Otherwise they are just chewing wood.

Equine Studies
May. 6, 2012, 10:04 AM
There are a ton of studies on cribbing and genetics/ulcers/management/nutrition etc. etc. etc.

Here are a few

http://scholar.google.ca/scholar?q=ulcers+cribbing&hl=en&as_sdt=1%2C5&as_sdtp=on

http://scholar.google.ca/scholar?hl=en&q=+cribbing+genetic&as_sdt=0%2C5&as_ylo=&as_vis=0

Bluey
May. 6, 2012, 10:23 AM
Cribbing IS windsucking. Otherwise they are just chewing wood.

Cribbing, taking a hold of something and pulling back is one part of windsucking.
Windsucking can be done without cribbing, while a cribbing horse does windsuck too.

I think that true windsuckers, those that learn to just gulp air, are not that common, or I have not seen many, while I have seen plenty of cribbing horses.

EquineImagined
May. 6, 2012, 10:29 AM
Cribbing, taking a hold of something and pulling back is one part of windsucking.
Windsucking can be done without cribbing, while a cribbing horse does windsuck too.

I think that true windsuckers, those that learn to just gulp air, are not that common, or I have not seen many, while I have seen plenty of cribbing horses.

I had a wind sucker. Had never seen one so it took me a while to figure out what the tar she was doing (looked like a demon mare doing it, too, I have a photo somewhere)

Funny thing, I picked her up the same day I picked up the mare who was a cribber. Two different barns. From two different states. (I just have that kind of luck I guess) But they were by the same sire. Whether that had anything to do with it I never actually considered. Both had been on the track, so I attributed it to that.

MassageLady
May. 6, 2012, 11:00 AM
In addition to the stomach problems it causes, it keeps the horse sore in the front end, continuously. The neck especially will be sore because of him pulling back all the time, then it moves into the withers/shoulders and pecs. I've found this to be true while doing the massage therapy-all horses that were sore in these areas, were cribbers.

Bluey
May. 6, 2012, 11:05 AM
In addition to the stomach problems it causes, it keeps the horse sore in the front end, continuously. The neck especially will be sore because of him pulling back all the time, then it moves into the withers/shoulders and pecs. I've found this to be true while doing the massage therapy-all horses that were sore in these areas, were cribbers.

Happens with any repetitive motions, they tend to cause chronic injuries.

ThirdCharm
May. 6, 2012, 11:11 AM
I believe there have been MULTIPLE studies that have proven this one false.

Cribbing does seem to have a high genetic component, though. If the sire or dam cribs, the foal is more likely to crib, even if it NEVER sees another horse cribbing.

Yes, studies have 'proven' that horses do not learn cribbing from other horses. Apparently the researchers forget how difficult it is to prove a negative! Maybe there are OTHER factors, such as a genetic inclination that has not been 'triggered' by exposure to the behavior, which is missing in the experimental group (though I don't believe anyone has ever actually done any kind of controlled experimental study!). Theses studies are small consolation to the owner of a horse who never cribbed before it was stabled next to a cribber!

According to the reseracher involved in the oft-cited Cornell study (which was an owner survey!), it is noted that about 1% of cribbers started cribbing after exposure to another cribber. I sincerely doubt the study was limited to owners of cribbers who owned the horse at the time the horse started cribbing? Undoubtedly there are environmental and genetic aspects.... The child of an alcoholic who hangs out with 'bad kids' is more likely to become an alcoholic than the child of a non-addict who spends weekends helping at the soup kitchen! But sometimes the child of a reformed addict discovers booze despite the parent's best efforts and environment, and sometimes out of the blue a kid with no predisposition gets in with the wrong crowd and ends up in the gutter....

judybigredpony
May. 6, 2012, 02:59 PM
When I had a cribber, he did not destroy barns, he did not crib rather than eat, he did not build up the "wrong" neck muscles and he did not wear down his teeth. He seemed happier when allowed to crib, so--as he didn't hit any of the above points--we just let him.

IME, cribbers are often quite clever horses as well.

Quite agree and some of the most talented athletic top horses Crib...

Nezzy
May. 6, 2012, 04:00 PM
Cribbing, taking a hold of something and pulling back is one part of windsucking.
Windsucking can be done without cribbing, while a cribbing horse does windsuck too.

I think that true windsuckers, those that learn to just gulp air, are not that common, or I have not seen many, while I have seen plenty of cribbing horses.

Ok, well i don't know how they would suck wind without holding anything. Cribbing is holding something while sucking wind.

Tehzebra
May. 6, 2012, 04:47 PM
Cribbing IS windsucking. Otherwise they are just chewing wood.


Cribbing, taking a hold of something and pulling back is one part of windsucking.
Windsucking can be done without cribbing, while a cribbing horse does windsuck too.

I think that true windsuckers, those that learn to just gulp air, are not that common, or I have not seen many, while I have seen plenty of cribbing horses.

Yes this is what I meant. A "True windsucker" who didnt latch on to things in order to suck wind.

gumshoe
May. 6, 2012, 04:57 PM
The worst thing about cribbing is all the misinformation and lack of education and common sense that surrounds it. ;)

Chall
May. 6, 2012, 05:09 PM
Someone said they do it to release endomorphines, and if you learn the points ( I think of acupuncture) you can stimulate those points yourself. I think I saw someone knocking them on their forehead ( like you would knock on a door, but not as hard). Anyone can ask their local acupuncturist for those points.

sdlbredfan
May. 6, 2012, 10:57 PM
that's always been my thinking. And then these horses are probably suffering some kind of mental or emotional disorder that they self-treat by cribbing, and along comes some owner determined to prevent them from cribbing- not by treating the real problem, but just by stopping the symptom of the problem, with the collars and the rings etc.
You would think someone would be looking into medication to treat the mental problem instead. Searches only find this, though:


Pharmacol Biochem Behav. 2001 Jan;68(1):49-51.

The effect of the NMDA receptor blocker, dextromethorphan, on cribbing in horses.

Rendon RA, Shuster L, Dodman NH.


Source

Department of Clinical Sciences, School of Veterinary Medicine, Tufts University, 200 Westboro Road, North Grafton, MA 01536, USA.


Abstract

Stereotypic cribbing in horses is thought to involve excess dopaminergic activity within the striatum. Various models of stress-induced stereotypies including cribbing in horses postulate that stress stimulates the release of endorphins, triggering the release of striatal dopamine. Dopamine in turn activates basal ganglia motor programs, reinforcing behavior via a reward mechanism. Furthermore, the release of dopamine by endorphins has been shown to depend on activation of NMDA receptors. In the present study, horses identified as cribbers and volunteered by their owners were treated with the NMDA receptor antagonist dextromethorphan (DM). When DM was administered via jugular injection (1 mg/kg), eight of nine horses responded with reductions in cribbing rate (CR) compared to baseline, and cribbing was suppressed completely for a period of time in almost half of the horses tested.


PMID: 11274707 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

That is very intresting! I wonder if anyone has ever studied Cushings' (PPID) afflicted horses that were cribbers, to find out if cribbing increases or decreases as their PPID worsens, sinc PPID horses apparently do not have enough dopamine. (IIRC the reason pergolide helps these horses is that it is a dooamine agonist.)

Edited to add, isn't dextromethophan a cough medicine ingredient? I wonder if putting such dextromethorphan syrup on feed of a cribber would reduce the occurrence of the behavior? Similarly to what one of the other posters observed, my mare cribs less when she has more hay, and even less so when that hay is alfalfa.

ETA2, Gumshoe, I love your succinct observation of "The worst thing about cribbing is all the misinformation and lack of education and common sense that surrounds it."

ETA3, thanks for those links to articles! I found this one to be very interesting and thought-provokingL http://references.equine-behaviour.de/files/ID_285_nagy.pdf
My 'take home message' from that one was this observation "Our results suggest that since prevention may significantly increase distress, the treatment in itself, without changing the motivation of the horse to
perform the replacement behaviour - it seems to be unsatisfactory and insufficient." This article was about the Forsell's procedure, BTW.

Shermy
May. 6, 2012, 11:51 PM
OH PLEASE! Horses do NOT learn to crib from cribbers. They either crib or dont.

My horse cribs, not a big deal. Had him almost 10 yrs. He is a great horse, so I consider it his one annoying vice.

I made him a cribbing station in his stall. Figured if he's gonna windsuck, then he might as well do it safely.

I tied several old leadropes on the front gate of his stall. He uses those to windsuck. No wear and tear on his teeth, since the rope is soft. Prevents him from tearing up his stall.

He is the only windsucker in our barn. NO OTHER HORSES HAVE picked up the habit from his, I repeat, NO OTHER HORSES started to windsuck after they have been around him.

He is out during the day w/15ish horses, so he is not sheltered from other horses.

He will be 16 yrs old, and is VERY healthy. I just see windsucking as an annoyance, but fail to see it as being a huge health issue.

JMO!

A.D.
May. 7, 2012, 12:01 PM
My mare windsucks (she swings her nose towards her chest and gulps on air). She started at the track. She is rather chunky for a TB (everyone thinks she is a WB or WB cross) and the trainer tried to get her slimmer to see if she would run faster. When they cut back her hay she started eating the straw bedsing, then they switched her to shavings and that's when she started. My best guess is that she developed ulcers and was bored so started to self medicate. She used to be hardcore. Would windsuck in her stall (mostly when out of food), while getting tacked up, while getting walked, etc.

Since I have had her she cribs a lot less. She is happiest at a barn with lots of pasture turnout and getting fed lots of hay in her stall (the BO buys her less nutriciously dense hay so she can have more because she is an easy keeper). She gets no grain (just a pelleted mineral/vitamin supplement at feeding time). She will ocasionally windsuck a handful of times at feeding time when for some reason it's taking longer than usual or when I stress her out (for example, pulling her mane). Maybe twice a month when I turn her out after riding she will do it a handful of times. That is it. She did it the most at a fancy barn I had her at where she was in a paddock some days and they fed very rich hay (she woul get 1/2 to a flake at feeding and hoover it down within 15-20 min).

From all the research I have done over the years of owning her:

- Stereotypical behaviours are ways for horses to self mediate or sooth themselves, if you take away the ability to perform the behaviour but not the reason (poor management, ulcers, etc) the horse can become even more stressed.

- There does appear to be a hereditary component. Some of these horses will start doing it even on 24/7 turnout. Others, will never pick it up no matter how stressful the environment.

- There is a fair bit of research tying cribbing to ulcers. Apparently the release of saliva during cribbing can help to soothe the stomach lining. This is thought to be why many horses crib while being fed grain or treats. Some horses can develop ulcers at weaning time, and some even earlier (when still at dam's side, but starting to get concentrates) and they can start cribbing at a very young age.

- There appear to be conflicting opinions/studies on the colic debate. I would imagine that since many horses crib to soothe their ulcers, they are more prone to colic because of the ulcers and other stomach issues, not the cribbing itself. Some horses who crib never colic.

- Most studies show that it is not a learned habit. Many barns have only one cribber that came that way. In the barns where many horses start to crib, that is often a management issue. I the environment is stressful, it makes sense that horses would start cribbing. I would imagine that for some horses having a neighbour/turnout buddy who cribs non-stop would be cause enough of stress to cause cribbing in them. Saw this in a mare I groomed once. She was stabled next to a cribber and started to do it. Moved her immediately as far from him as possible & she stopped.

My apologies for the very long post, this is something I find very interesting because of so many different opinions an misconceptions. As much as I love my windsucker, I would never get a horse who is so bad that they choose to crib over eating and are very hard keepers. That would be too stressful for everyone involved.

TheBarnSlave24/7
May. 7, 2012, 01:47 PM
SOME horses may not learn to crib from watching others, but SOME horses DO learn it from others.

My horse is a prime example. At the time he was 3 years old, and had never cribbed on anything, and I know both of his parents and neither of them have ever cribbed either. He was turned out in a pasture with another gelding that was a cribber. One day I noticed both geldings in their run-in shed, the cribber was going to town on the center divider....then I WATCHED my gelding start biting down right next to him. He wasn't trying to eat wood, but was trying to mimic what the other horse was doing. :eek: Luckily I put a collar on the other horse and they never did it again. My horse is very curious by nature and is always looking to get into trouble one way or another. So it didnt surprise me one bit that he was quick to pick up the habit.

Some horses may be prone to addiction more than others. Just like people. Some people have addictive personalities. Also, take into consideration, that not ALL horses are going to feel the same endophines as others do from cribbing. Just like people react differently to medicines. I think every cribber is different.

I actually know a horse that will colic if she doesn't crib. True story. Somebody explain that one.

fburton
Jan. 12, 2013, 04:17 PM
In addition to the stomach problems it causes,
What stomach problems does it cause? I thought it was predisposed by stomach problems.

r.j.246
Jan. 12, 2013, 04:46 PM
Both of mine crib, and I know the breeders for both of my horses. One wasn't a cribber until he was exposed to other cribbers at a trainer's barn, the other was the only cribber at the breeding facility from fillyhood to adult age, so no one to "learn" it from. I think some horses are just more predisposed to pick it up, or have the tendency inherently. Both are incredibly intelligent horses and stress out about everything.
So far no one else has picked it up from them, but who knows. I've caught one of the OTTBs mouthing the fence occasionally, I'm hoping it wasn't because of my horses.

DressageFancy
Jan. 12, 2013, 06:42 PM
I believe there have been MULTIPLE studies that have proven this one false.

Cribbing does seem to have a high genetic component, though. If the sire or dam cribs, the foal is more likely to crib, even if it NEVER sees another horse cribbing.

My big dressage gelding spent three days at a show stabled next to a cribber and came home attempting to crib. Caught him at the hooking teeth and pulling back but not actually making the "gulping" sound. I put him in a collar immediately and that stoped him. Took the collar off a couple weeks later and caught him trying to crib again. Put the collar back on and this time left it on all fall and winter. He has not gone back to trying since (9 years?). So, I do believe they can learn from each other!

Ainsley688
Jan. 12, 2013, 08:39 PM
I don't know too much about cribbing, and hope I don't have to learn anytime soon! But, I did watch a pony crib using his chin...instead of biting down, he rested his chin on top of the board and cribbed! Pretty crazy to watch...

Finzean
Jan. 12, 2013, 11:41 PM
http://www.parellinaturalhorsetraining.com/video/horse-cribbing/

It's okay...they're just burping.

:rolleyes:

doublesstable
Jan. 13, 2013, 12:09 AM
http://www.parellinaturalhorsetraining.com/video/horse-cribbing/

It's okay...they're just burping.

:rolleyes:

Oh My!!! burping LOL

This entire thread is the most interesting yet annoying thread I think I have ever read...

In the 35 + years I have been involved in the horse world; hunters, jumpers, dressage, eventing, trail riding, barrels, reining, racing, endurance, cutting friends I know I have not once heard cribbing was burping, that it wasn't learned from another horse, or that it didn't cause health issues. Now for sure each horse is individual so this is reason for some pick it up, some don't, some have health issues, some don't etc.

I can entertain one of the reasons for cribbing to be genetic but I'll be danged if it isn't something that "CAN" be taught to another horse.. and not because they are "all" under the same stress - bologna. Boredom, sure....

Formal studies and official statistics can be helpful but being around horses and horse people your entire life is a pretty good indicator of many horse related topics. And this is one of them.

Sorry but my vote is on the birds of a feather flock together concept.

And to answer the OPs question. Why is it bad - it's annoying, it can be destructive to property and I believe it can cause scar tissue and colic.

doublesstable
Jan. 13, 2013, 12:14 AM
On horse habits example... one of my horses came to me with a habit of shaking his head and making his lips flap around.... about four years later my other horse that I have had since born learned how to flap his lips just like the other horse.

One cribbing example - friend had horse that cribbed; filly came in barn never cribbed. Near cribbing horse for one week began cribbing. Other horses on same diet, same stall did not crib. Some just have a more addictive personality.

I have seen these type of things over and over; like even pawing... biting... whatever.. Birds of a feather...

Finzean
Jan. 13, 2013, 12:37 AM
doublesstable - my first pony mare did this thing where she would fling her head around like some sort of wild stallion in the movies. We bought a 2 mo QH filly from a neglect situation and turner her out w/the pony mare. The QH grew up doing it. Her '96 foal was reared by the QH mare & the pony mare...she still does it to this day, although infrequently now that her mentors have gone on to pony heaven.

Yeah, they teach stuff to one another and under certain circumstances, the cribbing ain't that different. Parelli might also want to check with the leading vet schools about the burping nonsense...ugh.

vtdobes
Jan. 14, 2013, 11:38 AM
I had my old gelding put down last year at age 30....he cribbed his entire life (I had him for 26 years). I raised two foals in the same barn as him. One mare is 9 this year...she'll chew on fence posts in boredom when the snow is covering the ground but never cribs. However...my coming 4 year old gelding started cribbing out of the blue two whole months AFTER my old gelding was put down. He lives outside 24/7. Just picked it up....let me tell you how much that pisses me off!

Derby Lyn Farms
Jan. 14, 2013, 11:51 AM
I had to post a reply to this, because I think I had one of the worst cribbers in the world. I usually don't mind a cribber, but she was bad.

I tried to keep a muzzle and a collar on her. She would go out to the tree in the pasture and figured a way to crib through both the muzzle and collar all day long. I ended up taking the muzzle off because she knew how to crib on that. She was starving herself. No amount of hay, no matter how good it was, would stop her for a second. She lost a ton of weight. I treated her for ulcers with ulcerguard, which did not help and was very expensive. She broke her jaw from cribbing so hard and bad. She wouldn't eat her grain because she would rather crib.

One thing I didn't have anymore was grass pastures, and this mare thrived on grass pastures. So I sent her to a home in Kentucky, where she still cribbed, but not as much because she had all the grass.

SuckerForHorses
Jan. 14, 2013, 12:02 PM
However...my coming 4 year old gelding started cribbing out of the blue two whole months AFTER my old gelding was put down. He lives outside 24/7. Just picked it up....let me tell you how much that pisses me off!

Is it possible that your youngster is stressed out over the loss of his herd companion and the starting to crib is a result of ulcery issues going on?

There is a correlation between horses with gastric ulcers & cribbing.

PipPip
Jan. 20, 2013, 12:32 PM
Hello
I live in the UK and have heard of the Dare Cribbing Collar and really think it would be the answer for my horse.

I currently have a miracle collar which work great but rubs across his brow.

Does anyone know how I can get one in the UK or have one they could send me.

lauriep
Jan. 20, 2013, 08:38 PM
I believe there have been MULTIPLE studies that have proven this one false.

Cribbing does seem to have a high genetic component, though. If the sire or dam cribs, the foal is more likely to crib, even if it NEVER sees another horse cribbing.

This. I have never had one colic, and I have never had one learn it from another. My current cribber's dam cribbed, and since I got him at 6 months, he always wanted to grab stuff and pull. It was several years before he actually cribbed, but we knew it was coming. The only thing that bothers me is how hard he is on the fences. Miracle collar works on him.

Effie1221
Jan. 20, 2013, 08:46 PM
Doesn't cribbing add to jaw and tension-in-back problems?

And BTW, burping is exhaling air from the gut, cribbing is sucking air into the gut.

reay6790
Jan. 20, 2013, 09:08 PM
We have a cribber at my barn for the first time in many years, and he seems pretty pacified by his small hole hay net. Since we gave it to him, he has reduced his cribbing a pretty good amount. I wouldn't say he is a "severe" cribber, but he has pulled off a few boards in his pasture ;D

Burping and cribbing is just silly...I actually chuckled when I saw that link.

Texarkana
Jan. 20, 2013, 10:43 PM
However...my coming 4 year old gelding started cribbing out of the blue two whole months AFTER my old gelding was put down. He lives outside 24/7. Just picked it up....let me tell you how much that pisses me off!

You're not alone! My mare started cribbing out of the blue around her 3rd birthday. Lived out 24/7 with all the hay and grass she could eat, a low-starch ration balancer, a good herd of friends, etc. etc. Scoped her and she had one of the best stomachs I have ever seen-- pretty much nothing going on.

I was pissed too, LOL. But some horses are just gonna crib.

judybigredpony
Jan. 21, 2013, 07:59 AM
It's like any other OCD it's only as bad as you let it dominate. Crib straps and electric fence are effective deterants. They also use ghastly rings on the teeth which borders on barbaric.

GotGait
Jan. 21, 2013, 09:50 AM
We have one cribber among 60 horses. This horse must be close to 20 and has cribbed since he was one and had to be on lengthy stall rest. None of the other horses have ever picked up his habit. I think they think he's stupid. He will cross the field alone to stand at the trough and crib while the others are eating. Compared to the others, he looks unthrifty, dull coat, ribby looking even though he's borderline fat. His teeth are ground down in front. He will crib a good portion of the day - it looks almost painful the way he swallows and huffs. The owners won't put a collar on him. We have electric fence so he uses the edge of the water trough.
Burping. /facepalm