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Laura Reed
Jul. 16, 2001, 07:19 PM
Not about the USA Equestrian name.... go to the other thread "Why did the AHSA change their name" for that. There are at least 3 other sub-threads evolving there, and plenty of interesting reading for sure.

This is about horses' names and whether you think the "Federation" or USA Equestrian (previously know as the AHSA, whatever) should or should not accept horse recordings if the name of choice is obviously inappropriate.

By obviously inappropriate, I have to think that any name that includes the word sex falls into the "sorry, no-can-use" category.

Yes, there is definitely a recorded horse by the name of "Hot Sex" and a lot of people find it offensive, including myself. I have yet to encounter an announcer who will announce the horse's name. I've also had occasion to tell the rider of "HS" that she can't enter the ring until properly attired. (Read: get out of that low-cut, backless halter top and put on a collared polo shirt, tucked in, thank you very much.)

In any case, here's the spot to comment on the pros and cons of legislating horses' recorded show names. I think it deserves it's own thread. AHSA = USA Equestrian = The Federation is another long story discussed elsewhere.

Laura Reed
Jul. 16, 2001, 07:19 PM
Not about the USA Equestrian name.... go to the other thread "Why did the AHSA change their name" for that. There are at least 3 other sub-threads evolving there, and plenty of interesting reading for sure.

This is about horses' names and whether you think the "Federation" or USA Equestrian (previously know as the AHSA, whatever) should or should not accept horse recordings if the name of choice is obviously inappropriate.

By obviously inappropriate, I have to think that any name that includes the word sex falls into the "sorry, no-can-use" category.

Yes, there is definitely a recorded horse by the name of "Hot Sex" and a lot of people find it offensive, including myself. I have yet to encounter an announcer who will announce the horse's name. I've also had occasion to tell the rider of "HS" that she can't enter the ring until properly attired. (Read: get out of that low-cut, backless halter top and put on a collared polo shirt, tucked in, thank you very much.)

In any case, here's the spot to comment on the pros and cons of legislating horses' recorded show names. I think it deserves it's own thread. AHSA = USA Equestrian = The Federation is another long story discussed elsewhere.

wendy2
Jul. 16, 2001, 08:06 PM
Okay Laura I'll ask again, who do I talk or write to in the AHSA to have this issue addressed? I had a hard time explaining the name and the whole act to one of my clients parents, who had brought their relatives to whatch their "little darling" ride in the short stirrup. Of course they took in the jumper activity, being that the rings are next to each other and were a bit shocked.
I have spoken to others at the shows who have had their names rejected for inappropiateness for example "Bite Me" was turned down. Can you imagine what this girls next horse will be named? I was told "Hot Sex" is a bar drink, should we expect maybe "Sex on the Beach",for a palomino?

Portia
Jul. 16, 2001, 08:17 PM
I agree that there should definately be standards of good taste and recognition that this is a family sport that involves children all over the place. That said, it does present difficulties for the Federation.

To me, the problem comes in where the Federation should/can draw the line. Obviously, it should not issue a recording number for a horse called "F*** You" or such a thing. But as we move down the continuum of crudeness and humor, the line gets fuzzy.

Hypothetically, what if there was a fancy pony mare humorously named "Dead Sexy" after the British expression as used in the Austin Powers' movie -- is that offensive and inappropriate? My guess is some people would say so, others not.

What about the legendary "Hoof Hearted"? (Say it aloud fast).

Putting it another way, does context matter? I have to say I get the feeling that in the particular instance the name of the horse, while I don't approve of it, probably would not be such an issue if the owner/rider did not engage in the other exhibitionistic and inappropriate behavior mentioned.

Add to that, what happens if the horse has a registered name that was accepted by its breed organization but may be offensive? I don't see how the Federation can refuse to record a horse with the name on the horse's breed registration papers. Now, this may not be really be a problem, as breed registries have a far greater interest in maintaining the image and dignity of their registered animals than does the Federation in recording them, but it could happen. (I remember when I was a younger there was a whole line of very successful AQHA horses that all had "Booger" in their names. I always thought it was pretty gross, but it never seemed to bother the AQHA folks.)

I'm not saying it can't or should not be done, just that these kind of judgments do present problems for the folks making the decision and there are bound to be some questionable cases and some people who disagree with whatever the decision may be.

[This message was edited by Portia on Jul. 16, 2001 at 10:38 PM.]

findeight
Jul. 16, 2001, 08:17 PM
Horses do not have to be recorded to show in AHSA (or whatever they call themselves now)shows. Rider must be a member or pay the fee but not the horse. I'd be willing to bet this horse is not registered anywhere under that name. If the rider is an AHSA member you may have recourse thru them but it is up to the show managment to back up the announcer when he/she refuses to read the name. Stop in the show office to register your objection to having that name used in front of little kids. If the announcers won't announce the name maybe the owners will get the point. What trailer park did these peaple crawl out of?

From Allergy Valley USA

Gold Dust
Jul. 16, 2001, 08:18 PM
It should only be fitting to be the first to post on your thread since I am the culprit of the spin off on the other thread!!

As I have stated on the other thread but to bring some points up here, the AHSA[federation]should without a doubt have the right to refuse a name. We have a dress code,are asked to compete in formal attire for certain classic or finals or marshal sterlings etc.... Have stewards handy to enforce rules or handle any complaints so why let a name like that invade our sport at all?

I worked with race horses for many years and have dealt with the Jockey Club and NYRA. They would not allow it at all so why should the AHSA? It is a matter of respect and all AHSA members in good standing are entitled to it. To see that displayed on coolers and saddlepads because the public has been told by the owner'the AHSA issued me a recording number' is a slap in the face to all. Needles to say should not be advertised around children which make a a huge number in our sport.

Gold Dust
Jul. 16, 2001, 08:20 PM
not the first at all.where did you all come from so fast lol

Gold Dust
Jul. 16, 2001, 08:24 PM
Did you know the AHSA turned down a recording number for a pony wanting to be called 'Bite Me'? How in the world did 'Hot Sex' get by them?

Portia
Jul. 16, 2001, 08:34 PM
Gold Dust, I know Weatherford has asked somebody at the Federation to look into it and that they are doing so, but have we even confirmed yet that the horse's recording number is actually issued under that exact name? I just wonder if maybe the owner slightly changed the name in the AHSA recording, like Jumphigh said on the other thread that she thought the horse's name was Hot Six. Or it could have been listed as Hot Sox, or Hot Sax. All of which would be acceptable. That would at least explain how it got by.

If the horse really does have a recording number under the name Hot Sex, then I don't have an explanation except that mistakes can be made.

findeight
Jul. 16, 2001, 08:49 PM
I sure could never even get good names accepted for youngsters let alone something off color. You may be right about a mistake being made if in fact this horse is registered somewhere under that name. Censoring names may be a slippery slope we really don't need to start down but I think this one is pretty blatant. Based on some of the people I've met through the years I don't believe anything anybody tells me about papers or pedigree until I see them.

From Allergy Valley USA

Lucassb
Jul. 16, 2001, 08:49 PM
(since I already responded on the other AHSA naming thread)

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO WRITE A RULE GOVERNING "APPROPRIATE" NAMES THAT EVERYONE CAN LIVE WITH?

Look, I am not arguing that naming a horse "Hot Sex" (or cold sex, or no sex or ...whatever sex) is in good taste. In my opinion, it is inappropriate in the extreme. If I were competing at a show where I saw something like that, I'd be inclined to protest it to the steward.

But the reality is, where people already complain about paying the existing dues, an $8 drug fee and there is widespread displeasure with the amount of money spent on the legal wrangling with the USET... how do you propose that the Fed draft a defensible rule allowing some committee to subjectively decide which names are OK and which are not?

You want to serve on that committee? You want to deal with Brenda BigBucks and her team of expensive attorneys when she comes up with a legal protest of your refusal to grant her beloved "Happy Banger" a recording certificate? Can you imagine what our dues structure would have to be to support that kind of thing?

I have no doubt that the rider/owner in question is just looking for attention. Really, someone who feels compelled to ride around in public in a bra is ... well, probably needs some help of some sort. If she is trying to shock people into giving her some attention, it would appear that she has succeeded. With people like that, frankly, the best way to get them to stop the behavior is to ignore them.

Children who notice and inquire should be gently told, "there are some unlucky people who never learned how to function appropriately in polite society. You should feel sorry for them." And that should be the end of it.

Just my $.02...

Gold Dust
Jul. 16, 2001, 08:57 PM
You may be correct in the owner making her own name modifications!!!! And you are correct,mistakes can be made. This is where I love to see how any organization handles a mistake and if they are willing to step up and rectify. That is why I slipped it into the other thread and was trying to see how the AHSA operates. I thank you and Weatherford!

Jumphigh83
Jul. 16, 2001, 09:31 PM
I would guess that the horse IS registered since it shows in the MS which has more than 2500 in prize money. When you see the "whole package" it really isn't a surprise that the horse's name is HS. Nice halter top..come in your size?? How about a SHIRT with a collar and sleeves? Novel concept. She should call the horse Carnival Act. OK I am done being a b*tch. Really.

Betsy
Lead, follow, or get out of the way...

findeight
Jul. 16, 2001, 09:51 PM
Now you are making me want to see this. Where does it show? /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

From Allergy Valley USA

Jumphigh83
Jul. 16, 2001, 10:00 PM
My first "siting" was HITS I and II Catskill. OMG. Enough said.

Betsy
Lead, follow, or get out of the way...

Jane
Jul. 16, 2001, 10:45 PM
Laura: thanks for starting this thread, and I'm glad you stressed the fact that it's more than just the name of the horse. I first heard of the name about a year ago, then saw the owner this spring for the first time. I think I got "used to" the name after all this time , eventhough I still have a hard time watching that poor creature being parade around in red and white saddle pads and coolers sporting the H.S. name. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Of course, the worse of it all is seeing the owner. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

That said, I do agree with others that this could be murky waters. Hot Sex is downright blatant if not obnoxious, but where does the AHSA/Fed draw the line, as Lucassb pointed out?

Betsy: be warned...she's scheduled to make another appearance at HITS V (please don't even ask how I know, unless you're prepared to receive a 20-page whinning email from me /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif ). I'm just glad I'll be there for the hunters and should be out of there by the time she gets there ::::keeping fingers crossed::::::.

BTW, even though local show annoucers never annouce the horse's name, I heard at the big A shows, such as HITS, Garden State, and the Hamptons, it was announced. Can you confirm that?

JustJump
Jul. 17, 2001, 04:04 AM
Doesn't a show have the right to refuse entries for any reason, each being a private business? Why not just stop it right there by refusing to accept the entry in the first place? Surely, whoever trains her has entries as well--why not turn down their entries too?

MsHunter
Jul. 17, 2001, 05:03 AM
Confirmation that it was announced at Garden State. I was there, I saw it. I was in shock.
Of course, it was a good experience to learner I had the same questions you are all asking. I found her riding more offensive then her appearance. Poor horse.

Jumphigh83
Jul. 17, 2001, 07:11 AM
Amen Jane. The reason I even had a "siting" was I heard the name announced and turned around to see what would name a horse something so tacky. Well ask and you will receive..oh my...the riding far outstrips the attire for crude and tasteless.

Betsy
Lead, follow, or get out of the way...

JulieMontgomery
Jul. 17, 2001, 07:20 AM
Is it so astounding that I should charter a plane to fly up for a "sighting" of my own at one of the shows? /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

lastcall
Jul. 17, 2001, 07:21 AM
Working for a bunch of lawyers, I know how difficult it is to make the distinction between vague terms such as "appropriate" and "acceptable". There isn't a standard and each person has a different perception BUT how hard would it be to simply issue a bunch of words that CAN NOT be used in a horses recorded name - period. I cant imagine someone would protest or bring forth a law suit based on word discrimination. After all, you cant repeat a name and there is a huge list of all that have been used. (at least for the Jockey Club you cant)

JulieMontgomery
Jul. 17, 2001, 07:21 AM
Does she look like a Jerry Springer Show guest? /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Flash44
Jul. 17, 2001, 07:24 AM
Isitingood got by the Jockey Club.

lastcall
Jul. 17, 2001, 07:28 AM
At least that's a little creative and ony a little suggestive. They could have been thinking about trying to get their ATM card right so the machine could read it.

Daphnes hair dresser
Jul. 17, 2001, 07:30 AM
I agree with most of you.... Where is the coach??? How do the coach's other clients feel about being with the same barn as the floozy at the shows?

Does this coach have juniors watching this person behave this way?

WHERE ARE THE PARENTS????

Jumphigh83
Jul. 17, 2001, 07:31 AM
Maybe she could do a name change to Izzy Honor Yet??? Jerry Springer???Oh yes!!!

Betsy
Lead, follow, or get out of the way...

Gold Dust
Jul. 17, 2001, 07:34 AM
I really do believe if we ran the world ladies it would be a much better place. LOL

I have spoken to the trainer on numerous occasions. He finally put his foot down and told her she can not enter the ring without proper attire. Hence last weekend a collared shirt and show bow!!!! He loves the horse and is desperatly trying to lookout for the animal and has tryed over and over again to talk with this woman. Like I have said, her beef has always been'if the AHSA issued me a number I am allowed to show under that name.' The door has been opened to have it placed on everything the girl owns as many a client does.This is why I feel the AHSA can refuse a name because of the way the times are with monograms for everything clients own! As I put it to the trainer, How would it look for me,a female professional, showing a horse with a saddlepad that said 'Do me baby'. How would you view myself as a fellow pier?.................. At that point I saw a flash of light from a lighbulb! I explained to him that no one understands that you are trying to change the woman and take care of her animal. All they see is a carnival.

Here is where I want to see the inner workings of the AHSA[federation] and see what happens from here!

Flash44
Jul. 17, 2001, 07:44 AM
My husband told me to inform him when someone posted a pic of this woman.

M. O'Connor
Jul. 17, 2001, 07:46 AM
"unsportsmanlike behavior" rule? Surely, causing such offense is not sportsmanlike...and one against the AHSA (ahem, I mean "the Federation" ) for issuing a recording number to the horse, then it can go to a hearing (eventually, but it will happen) and perhaps by then, a solution can be arrived at. If anyone is truly looking to make an objection, and feels strongly enough about it, $100/200 isn't too much to lay out. Especially if the money is put up by a group of those offended.

In the meantime, the exhibitionist is getting her "fix" as we are all here talking about her...

Sleepy
Jul. 17, 2001, 07:49 AM
Those of us in the South are now dying of curiosity and want to see photographic evidence of this 'sight to behold'. I'm having trouble visualizing someone this tacky at a horse show.

Iceman
Jul. 17, 2001, 07:56 AM
This cracks me up!! I've seen this women show ,if someone did post a pic you would never belive it!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Glimmerglass
Jul. 17, 2001, 07:57 AM
>> After all, you cant repeat a name and there is a huge list of all that have been used. (at least for the Jockey Club you cant) <<

A tad off topic, but interesting nonetheless, is the protected listing as of January 1999 from the International Federation of Racing Authorities:

http://www.horseracingintfed.com/e-protect2.html

Two of my favorites for special reasons are on the list: 'Hoist The Flag' and 'Never Say Die'

Jennasis
Jul. 17, 2001, 07:59 AM
Not only did I witness the travelling freak show, but I had the rare "privilege' of being in the schooling ring with "it" at my last show. When I wasn't being completely distracted by the sight of her NEON ORANGE lipstick with DARK BROWN lipline (brown about an inch above her actual lipline to make fuller appearing lips), or her TANG COLORED HAIR paired with a BRIGHT GREEN hunt coat, and tammy faye style eye makeup out of the corner of my eye...I was being cut off by her. She has ZERO manners as far as riding in the ring with others...her horse backed right into me...she made some snotty comment to my sister, and if she looked likea joke in her riding attire, what she changed into when she was done was an absolute laugh riot!

She is Long Island's very own Krusty the Klown. Anybody woner if she's reading this?

If I were her trainer she'd be out on her ear.

Sweet Pea
Jul. 17, 2001, 08:02 AM
Jennasis, I think you are talking about another anomaly here on LI - Hot Sex is a grey.

Iceman
Jul. 17, 2001, 08:03 AM
The person with the green hunt coat is someone else on the island.Yes another traveling circus,only on Long Island!!

Ghazzu
Jul. 17, 2001, 08:05 AM
Sometimes you folks scare me.
I agree the woman sounds like a horror show, but would you make such a fuss about the name if the horse were being ridden by someone "popular"?

You can't legislate good taste, unfortunately, and I, for one, don't feel that we need the Morality Police out there pronouncing judgement on names.

For pity's sake, we have juniors involved in sex with trainers. You really thing they got there by seeing suggestive names on the entry forms?


Were I this creature's trainer, however, I would not hesitate to help her pack her trunk and load the horse.

Michelle Mc
Jul. 17, 2001, 08:13 AM
It's amazing I should come upon this thread today. My office turned down a client with a "name issue." They had named their child an "ugly" name and the Dept. of Health refused the name for birth registration.
I wanted that case!!! The firm sent it to another one of our offices.

The parents won.
As a parent I think it's a form of abuse, but found the case an exciting opportunity.

lastcall
Jul. 17, 2001, 08:20 AM
As long as the juniors and trainers arent having it out in the schooling area - so be it.

However, everyone is faced with other's poor choices of names when they are announced show-wide.

Two issues dont really seem related to me. Just because there is inappropriate behavior present in the horse show world, doesnt mean we just let is all fly.

Gold Dust
Jul. 17, 2001, 08:27 AM
Popular or not it is offensive and that is where I feel all AHSA members in good standing have a right to complain and expect action taken if it warrents and on the other hand no matter who you are you should show respect for all and be ready to be repremanded because that is just simply put -not right. Here is where the little guy deserves to be heard by the AHSA.

MKFS
Jul. 17, 2001, 08:48 AM
I am not expressing an opinion on the name "Hot Sex" for a jumper but do want to confirm that that horse's name was announced many times at last year's Hampton Classic, as in: "I need Hot Sex at the in-gate right now."

Black Market Radio
Jul. 17, 2001, 08:49 AM
You know, we are not allowed to put any type of suggestive things on license plates on cars either!

The Federation is a right not a priviledge. They should be able to set down any inapropriate name that can be percieved as offensive. However, there are always ways around it! I know a little bit of Tongan, and there is a lady in my area whose license plate says the F word in Tongan! Not many people know that, but I do! And yet I wasn't allowed to have "meepster" because appearantly that has sexual connotations according to the DMV computer! I had a really cute jeep and my horn didn't honk, it went "meep"
What's my point? I don't really know anymore, but that name for that horse is terrible!

And MichelleMC, e-mail me I want to know the name of that poor child!!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Check out my stable! http://www.rockystables.com

lastcall
Jul. 17, 2001, 08:50 AM
At the in gate is a lot better than some of the other in gate calls. For example, there is "on deck", "one away" and the worst by far would be "in the hole"

[This message was edited by lastcall on Jul. 17, 2001 at 11:11 AM.]

Jumphigh83
Jul. 17, 2001, 08:54 AM
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Betsy
Lead, follow, or get out of the way...

Gold Dust
Jul. 17, 2001, 09:01 AM
Is it not the choice of the individual to say the name over a loudspeaker?Remember, he has just recieved a class sheet with that name. I really believe the only one who can stop offensive behavior is the AHSA. A simple beginning to that is to have the right to refuse an offensive name. Offensive behavior can be taken to any steward at a horseshow. We as individuals have to go to them as they are put at a horse show to help the exhibitor and many other reasons.

Gold Dust
Jul. 17, 2001, 09:09 AM
I have fallen off my computer chair from laughter and cann't get up! I am hearing someone say that at the U.S. air arena in Washington in the schooling area, and seeing the look on peoples faces.Go there, it is a site!!! I remember telling my student that years ago,it's time to go down in the hole and saying to myself,'geeze that didn't sound right'! /infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

InWhyCee
Jul. 17, 2001, 09:09 AM
Flash 44: Yes, Isitingood got by the Jockey Club, but I heard that eventually the owner was forced to change it to something more discreet...

Incidentally, that horse's trainer was the infamous Bob Baffert of the "Morning Wood" stable, who originally wanted to name Silver Charm "Poker for a Buck" (he is by Poker out of a Spend a Buck mare, I think)....

Ever notice that classy horses (on the track or otherwise) tend to have classy names?

/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

lastcall
Jul. 17, 2001, 09:15 AM
Hope no one was offended.

Jumphigh83
Jul. 17, 2001, 09:24 AM
Sadly the US Air arena is no more but I hear you! In the hole!!! OMG! Into the chute??? "Please bring Hot Sex to the ingate!!" Really Russell, get a HOLD OF YOURSELF!!! hahahahahahahahahhaha

Betsy
Lead, follow, or get out of the way...

brilyntrip
Jul. 17, 2001, 11:12 AM
I judged it last weekend .Now Let me remind you that I live on Long Island and have um watched the travelling freak show for the last few months.I have reserved comment because I know the trainer who is a likeable soul if not very assertive and very non confrontational.All the afforementioned comments are totally accurate.Last weekend however I noticed something else!!!!!NO undies!!Just as I noticed the timer lady noticed along with three of her cronies!!!I have just one word GGGGGRRRRRRRRROOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSS.

Weatherford
Jul. 17, 2001, 11:18 AM
Can't you, Brilyntrip, as a judge, disqualify her for inappropriate attire? Attire, even for the jumpers, is spelled out in the rulebook.

(Of course, not down to undies /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
- but the lack of a proper polo shirt is covered.)

Jumphigh83
Jul. 17, 2001, 11:23 AM
Now that you mention it..I DID notice the no undie thing..or a very "brief" thong..in WHITE breeches ...gross?? that's an understatement.

Betsy
Lead, follow, or get out of the way...

JulieMontgomery
Jul. 17, 2001, 11:24 AM
We like being the morality police..! LOL

/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

stephanie
Jul. 17, 2001, 11:58 AM
I'm with you.... I am surprised at the outpouring of anger over this.... I wouldn't agree that the name "hot sex" is by definition offensive (as someone posted.). It doesn't offend me. I think it's a little silly, and would never name my horse such a thing, but I would certainly rather be a part of a community that allowed a little expression rather than one which was so rigid and conservative that it can't take a joke. The name, and others like it, is tasteless, in my opinion, but I'd like to allow others a little leeway to be tasteless.

There are many more offensive, and I think pernicious, things I've seen at horse shows (little girls throwing the reins of their ponies to Mexican grooms, riders and trainers from "little" barns getting treated with less respect than the big names). Personally, I'd rather have child overhear an offcolor name than witness some of the behavior that goes unremarked at some of the big shows.

Flash44
Jul. 17, 2001, 12:33 PM
Silver Charm is by Silver Ghost.

akrogirl
Jul. 17, 2001, 01:10 PM
My husband is also very intrigued by this thread /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Funny, he has never paid this much attention to my riding attire /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif However, we have noticed quite a few jumper riders apparently wearing thongs recently - is this the "in" thing?

InWhyCee
Jul. 17, 2001, 01:11 PM
Flash44: Thanks, my knowledge of TB breeding is off... trust me, Poker is in there, as is Spend a Buck...

akrogirl
Jul. 17, 2001, 01:17 PM
DelMar shows Silver Charm as being by Silver Buck out of Bonnie's Poker, so Bob Baffert's choice would have made sense /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

DMK
Jul. 17, 2001, 01:18 PM
Actually, Silver Charm is by Silver Buck (loved that horse) out of Bonnie's Poker. So you just may be right about Poker for a Buck. Quite original! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Sorry, no Spend a Buck (thank goodness - that would have shaken my faith in TB breeding!)

horseygurl182
Jul. 17, 2001, 01:19 PM
What does this crazy person show in? Will she really be at HITS Catskills V? That would be a sight too see! /infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

akrogirl
Jul. 17, 2001, 01:27 PM
DMK - no rude comments about Spend a Buck please. My OTTB, Jimmy, is very defensive about his dad and doesn't want to have to go back into therapy again /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

DMK
Jul. 17, 2001, 01:32 PM
OK, I promise to refrain /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Wouldn't want to be responsible for putting anyone's horse into therapy, goodness knows mine need enough for dealing with me /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

But he is an OTtb right?

OK, I promise to quit now.

But I will say he was a pretty horse when we was briefly at our layup facility...

akrogirl
Jul. 17, 2001, 01:47 PM
DMK - yes, he is OT, and yes, his race record was dreadful /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif However, he has a great jump in addition to having the prettiest head in the barn /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Lucassb
Jul. 17, 2001, 01:51 PM
that my horse's registered name (Jockey Club) is also HOT... !

Yes, HOT JAVA.

He is by Tim the Tiger out of a Miles Standish mare named Spanish Coffee...

Even though I am an admitted caffeine addict, I couldn't stand it... He shows under the name Notorious (which does fit him, as it turns out.)

Funny.

Gold Dust
Jul. 17, 2001, 02:00 PM
I had a horse nammed 'The Dark Gift' named after a phrase in an Anne Rice vampire novel but it surely did not mean when it was dark I turned into a vampire threatening to drink the blood of every exhibitor I could find! [this post is for you Jane LOL] /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

DMK
Jul. 17, 2001, 02:00 PM
That's OK akrogirl, my guy is bred to the T's and his race record is quite dreadful. The same cannot be said for the rest of his dam's produce.
Having owned both varieties, sometimes I think that might be worse /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

And Spend A Buck had a cute little head... all the better to win the Cherry Hill Mile with /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Kaori
Jul. 17, 2001, 02:19 PM
Getting into this tb "hot" name thing....

My tb's dam is "How Hot" by Fire Dancer. The sire is "Gruastark Dancer" by Fire Dancer. Northern Dancer is the great grand daddy on both sides, and my boy has inherited all his looks and heart. (And a cute jump.) Thankfully, my boy has a very tame name.... Adrienne's Hope.

I'm still amazed by this thread. I wish someone would post a pic. I almost don't believe it.

Flash44
Jul. 17, 2001, 02:22 PM
Where is Moesha? I think he would have thrown in his 2 bucks by now.

DMK
Jul. 17, 2001, 02:28 PM
You know, I could have sworn he did... musta deleted it...

InWhyCee
Jul. 17, 2001, 02:40 PM
Why is everyone questioning HOT SEX's right to show? I mean, you don't need to be able to dress yourself, or even be able to ride, to show at HITS; you just need a horse, free time, and money!

That said, VISIBLE LIP LINER? THONGS? MIDRIFFS OVER BREECHES?As a girl, I am APPALLED! Has anyone called the "Fashion Emergency" show on her behalf?
/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Lucassb
Jul. 17, 2001, 02:40 PM
Rightly so!

Susan

JustaLurker
Jul. 17, 2001, 02:46 PM
The State of California has rules for personalized auto license plates and has seemingly escaped any and all challenges. Then, if there are complaints about one that slipped through, the plate can be recalled, I guess with no recourse. So, it would seem that whatever CA has done, certainly could be put into practice within the Federation's horse recording department.

What with the objections being raised over this horse/rider combination, the rules should be put into practice immediately along with the provision for a review of any and all names currently in use.

Cheers, Maggi

[This message was edited by JustaLurker on Jul. 17, 2001 at 05:01 PM.]

Miniwelsh
Jul. 17, 2001, 02:51 PM
but I am a bit confused at the horror of the thong. Would you rather see the big granny panty line? /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

*Behind every good woman lies a trail of men*

Moesha
Jul. 17, 2001, 02:55 PM
I did, I can't find it?? Anyway, I thought that someone should say something to her, and that calling her a freak show was not nice!

Moesha
Jul. 17, 2001, 02:59 PM
After all I cannot imagine at a rated show someone half naked in underwear and all their nastiness hanging out galloping around a jumper ring!!! like some modern Lady Godiva on acid!

Dana
Jul. 17, 2001, 03:00 PM
While the name, Hot Sex, doesn't offend me, I can see where it could offend others. I, personally, would never name one of my horses this, tho.

AHSA can and should be able to regulate the names that are attached to horses' with their AHSA registrations. AQHA does it all the time. While they will allow "Sexy" in a horse's name, there are limits to what they will allow, and they are not remiss in requiring breeders to submit alternative choices when none of their requested names are either available or are too risque.

There was a jumper in Indio last year, I think, called Viagra. Wonder why the pharmaceutical company didn't jump on this one for some type of copyright infringement? There was a hunter in Indio, also, a couple of years ago with a totally inappropriate name (I won't even attempt to post it here...Erin would have a heart attack). The announcers out there "massaged" the name to give it a French-sounding twist, but we all KNEW what it really was.

Moesha
Jul. 17, 2001, 03:03 PM
Dana exactly, I would never name my horse something like that because I love my horse and would never want to have them called things like that, but in this case I do not know what to say! Is it infringement? If so on whose part? Is it explicit? If so by whose standards? Is her clothing and behavior wrong? Again who judges this?

Weatherford
Jul. 17, 2001, 03:20 PM
This is from the head of Rules Compliance at the AHSA: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>

We have procedures in place whereby if a protest arrives in the office with the Stewards Report, all documents are forwarded directly to the Rules
Compliance Department.

This information is highly confidential as the parties involved and the Hearing Committee have to be notified of the matter which may subsequently go forward to a Hearing.

Accordingly, I hope that you understand that I am unable to answer your specific questions regarding this matter. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think we can safely assume that the matter is being handled in confidence, as it should be.

/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

M. O'Connor
Jul. 17, 2001, 03:33 PM
anyone see anything between those lines?

Jul. 17, 2001, 04:08 PM
I can see why the name "Hot Sex" can offend some people.. it doesn't offend me but I would never EVER name my horse THAT! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif That would be kind of degrading the horse..

Is this horse any good? And I don't see anything wrong with wearing a thong while riding? lol granny panty lines are far worse than that!

/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Jumphigh83
Jul. 17, 2001, 04:18 PM
Nothing wrong with a thong with regular britches..but white??? You can see "everything". gross. I go for the grandma line rather than the teenie bopper tushie.

Betsy
Lead, follow, or get out of the way...

Lord Helpus
Jul. 17, 2001, 04:33 PM
As an FYI, the TB racehorse Isitingood died with that name -- it was never changed. Probably to the collective relief of the JC, though, the world record that he broke for a mile was lowered again only a week or two later by Langfuhr. Isitingood died young before siring any foals -- again, probably to the collective relief of the JC.

However, last summer Saratoga Race Track announced it would not let a horse owned by one of the Arab shieks run because of its name --- Mutrfakir (I am close but not exact with the spelling here). Evidently, in Arabic it means something nice, like beautiful rainbow. The Arabs tend to name their horse's Arabic names which are notoriously hard to pronounce.....

So the trainer called the Sheik and told him he would have to rename the horse -- much to everyone's surprise, since the horse had had the name for a year and it was pronounced very differently (and very chastely) from the race tracks' imagination. But the horse was duly renamed so that an unwary announcer, down the road, who had not been told of the correct pronunciation, would not er, blow it. It was pronounced MOO-tir-fak-eer I believe.....

So, in racing, even if the JC makes a "mistake" and allows a horse to be named a certain name, it seems that a race track can overrule them and refuse to let a horse run with a name that they fear is inappropriate.

AMom
Jul. 17, 2001, 04:34 PM
There was a hunter this year at Indio called "Valerian" which sort of cracked me up /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

But then, wasn't there a hot A/A hunter back East named "Xanax"? /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Heidi
Jul. 17, 2001, 05:11 PM
Went to the HITS Catskills site and it didn't take long to establish the identity of the rider.

While tasteless as the name and some of her antics may be, it does seem to me that she's gone to these lengths to provoke a reaction. I don't know the rider but can only guess that she's probably rather young.

Frankly I'm more concerned about what emotional issues she's confronted in her life, which would lead her to act so brazenly sexually, than the appropriateness of her horse's name.

Flash44
Jul. 17, 2001, 05:37 PM
Lord H, I remember that! They may have had to scratch the horse the day before he raced due to that name or something. It was kind of funny, in a way.

Gold Dust
Jul. 17, 2001, 05:44 PM
We shall see what happens now. This iswhere my question on howthe AHSA will handle this I hope will soon be answered.

Besides the jokes[which at some point are needed] I think the main object to adding to this thread was to get opinions on the AHSA's stand on this. Understand, my complaint looks much further then the horses name. It is the standards the AHSA is trying to set. When you issue a name like that the character of the person has to be in question. As I have stated, in the times of monogramed everything the AHSA had to see they would open up a can of worms. I would think if they were to turn that name down first off a person like that would hopefully see the standards this association will demand and move on or straighten up. Remember,here on L.I. the jumper ring is quite often next to the short stirrup ring. Behave as you will behind closed doors but when you step on to a sanctioned AHSA horseshow exhibit with respect.

Canter
Jul. 17, 2001, 05:49 PM
So from the sounds of it the ASHA is looking into the inappropriateness of the name?

Tacky and hideous the owner may be, but look at all the entertainment she has provided you guys with!

What next - "Bada Bing?"

just_me
Jul. 17, 2001, 06:04 PM
===========================
What next - "Bada Bing?"
===========================

Don't laugh, I was checking out results few months ago (might have been Indio) and there was a horse named Bada Bing. Actually, I thought it was pretty funny. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Jane
Jul. 17, 2001, 06:08 PM
The woman you described isn't H.S.'s owner, who has long straggly "blonde" hair that she lets fly while in the show ring, no hair net, no pony tail. And the horse is gray, and they show in the jumpers...I don't think the woman owns a show jacket.

The woman you described has orange/red hair and rides a chestnut in beginner adult classes and dressage shows. Despite her "colors", she and her horse are always turned out neat and clean, and she wears a jacket.

Canter
Jul. 17, 2001, 06:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by just_me:

Don't laugh, I was checking out results few months ago (might have been Indio) and there was a horse named Bada Bing. Actually, I thought it was pretty funny. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is so tacky. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Jumphigh83
Jul. 17, 2001, 06:35 PM
Sadly the "Federation" likes to give the impression that they are "dealing with" a situation "privately" which loosely translated means "please go away, we don't want to answer you and we don't want to be bothered by such trivia as our stand on our own rules" Been there...done that...it doesn't seem to change..

Betsy
Lead, follow, or get out of the way...

just_me
Jul. 17, 2001, 06:35 PM
---------------------------------------------
That is so tacky.
---------------------------------------------

Why? Because of the strip club on the Sopranos?

Bada-bing is half of the term "Bada-bing-bada-boom," which has been an oft-used expression in Brooklyn, and other NYC areas having Italian Americans, for as long as I can remember. It is the sound of a drum "rim shot" used to punctuate the joke line of a stand-up comedian in a nightclub.

I thought it was funny that the club on the Sopranos is named Bada Bing and I think it's funny that a horse is too. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Jane
Jul. 17, 2001, 06:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stephanie:
I'm with you.... I am surprised at the outpouring of anger over this.... I wouldn't agree that the name "hot sex" is by definition offensive (as someone posted.). It doesn't offend me. I think it's a little silly, and would never name my horse such a thing, but I would certainly rather be a part of a community that allowed a little expression rather than one which was so rigid and conservative that it can't take a joke.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm all for creativity, having a little fun, freedown-of-speech, etc, etc. When I first heard of the name, I had a good laugh, thought it was silly and didn't pay much more attention to it. My problem with this whole issue is the result of witnessing her antics weekend after weekend at shows, starting this spring. I can honestly say not much offend nor shock me, but boy do I find her offensive.

I can totally see why it's hard to understand though...it's something you have to personally experience, I guess. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Weatherford
Jul. 17, 2001, 07:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Sadly the "Federation" likes to give the impression that they are "dealing with" a situation "privately" which loosely translated means "please go away, we don't want to answer you and we don't want to be bothered by such trivia as our stand on our own rules" Been there...done that...it doesn't seem to change..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

IF there has been an official protest, which there evidently has been, then the Federation CANNOT comment until the hearing committee has convened and proceedings have happened. It is in the BY-LAWS!

If you want them to comment or answer your questions about what to do in a hypothetical situation, or about whether or not they can do something about this kind of attitude, ASK THEM. You MUST ask them hypothetically, however, as they cannot comment on these proceedings.

Those who are offended by her appearance need to file protests at EVERY show she attends.

I feel the confidentiality part of this procedure is very important, and not to be summarily dismissed as the Federation avoiding an issue.

If there is no rule governing this behaviour - WRITE ONE!

brilyntrip
Jul. 17, 2001, 07:25 PM
I have deleted every nasty thing I have said about poor blonde person .You are right it was unnecessary!!!!!!I take it all back !!!!

[This message was edited by brilyntrip on Jul. 17, 2001 at 11:59 PM.]

Beezer
Jul. 17, 2001, 07:28 PM
Personally, I've never quite been able to utter aloud a certain line of warmbloods -- that "Fokker" line. There really is one. It's an old, old line (Swedish originally, I think; believe it's also Dutch for "breeder," which opens up a whole nother line of potentially embarrassing conversations -- "who's your horse's ... well, you know" /infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif ) and occasionally it will still crop up in a modern horse's name or pedigree. I know it probably isn't pronounced THAT way but ... I just can't say it. Nope. Can't go there.

Now ... you don't suppose HS is from THAT line, do you?? /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

****Bulletin Board Goddess****

LURKNNOMORE
Jul. 17, 2001, 07:29 PM
Although I personally would not name a horse HOT SEX, and I also don't agree with this person's sense of style, I find it offensive to trash and hurt another human being.

While this person might be a little "out there" who has she really harmed? Her children are well-mannered and under control, she doesn't seem to abuse her horses, she minds her own business and she has endured the wise cracks and innuendo without comment.

Bertie
Jul. 17, 2001, 07:36 PM
Very funny! I like it!

When I first read that it was a horse's name I thought -- What a good name! Others find it offensive? I Guess it just goes to show the problems with censorship. Where do you draw the line? I knew a horse whose TB registered name was French Kiss. Should that've been censored?

"Always speak your mind, but ride a fast horse" -- Texas Bix Bender

PONYPULR
Jul. 17, 2001, 07:50 PM
Even if the AHSA chose to relinquish it's registering of the name "Hot Sex", that does not keep the owner from having it printed on her horse's clothing and other paraphernalia.

That said, the only grounds for protest that I can see is of CONDUCT. Inappropriate conduct. So, if no protest has been legitimately done, I say to all of you, "Put your money where your mouth is."

What are the fees now-a-days and can a protest be taken from a group of people?

And someone said earlier that a protest should be made at every show she attends. Could that run into a lot of money??

"Nothing ruins a neighborhood, like neighbors." L. Greening

Canter
Jul. 17, 2001, 07:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by just_me:
---------------------------------------------
That is so tacky.
---------------------------------------------

Why? Because of the strip club on the Sopranos?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I WAS kidding, but now that you ask, yes, it's tacky. Why not just come out and call the damn horse "Strip Club." My tongue is firmly in my cheek!
/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Erin
Jul. 17, 2001, 07:56 PM
Hey folks, let's tone it down a wee bit, shall we? Just because you don't like the person is no reason to insult them.

It's probably a good idea to assume that the person you're writing about is going to read this.... consider that before you post, please. /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

wendy2
Jul. 17, 2001, 08:26 PM
I am glad to see that the AHSA has recieved a steward's report with a protest attached. As I said in my original post, the name is inappropriate when there are so many small children around especially sharing schooling rings. How do you explain this whole thing to a mother of a short stirrup rider who is offended.

Can a judge protest the no panty issue, if he/she is looking? Has anyone ever tried to talk to this woman, I can't imagine she is unaware of the problem.

Gold Dust
Jul. 17, 2001, 08:37 PM
First,I have not commented on the owner of the horse as a person. I can honestly say she may very well be a nice person. But.....[and I am always good for those] as a parent I do not feel my children need to be subjected to it. Myself would not dress like that around my children so it makes me wonder since her children are present at times. What about respect for her trainer? Has anyone told her when you step in the ring you are a reflection of your coach? Does she not want to please him and make him proud? What about her fellow team members from the barn? How do you think it makes them feel? Thank-god my clients want to make me proud and would never do that to me. [That was my personal comment]

PONYPULR you are 100% correct. Anyone can put anything on a cooler or saddle pad. Do we really want to open that door? This is where I am all for some sort of morality code. The AHSA should be allowed to keep class in this sport. We all work too hard in this sport and the people who don't get it may need to see it in writing! This is where I look to the future and say let's try to understand how this could get worse and more and more people in years to come could take this to a whole different level and this down the road could look like nothing.

If she is looking for attention, how about dropping a great trip dressed for success. That would be her best retaliation to all of us here! I would be the first one to jump to her defense. Only time will tell!

Jumphigh83
Jul. 17, 2001, 09:00 PM
Oh Pleased don;t think I "hate" her..I don't even KNOW her! I just find her style a bit bizzare and her attire very...ummm....trashy. She may be Mother Theresa for all I know. It is hard to not judge this book by it's cover. We should keep an open mind though...maybe she is from another country where this type of attire is OK. Who knows! It just makes for good punny jokes with sexual innuendo. I am not offended per se, but it does diminish the credibility of the sport when you have this type of characature as an ambassador!

Betsy
Lead, follow, or get out of the way...

MeadowMuffin
Jul. 17, 2001, 09:16 PM
I thought this site was about equines, not cats!
I can't believe what I'm reading, you should all be as critical of yourselves and your own riding ability as you are of this woman's participation in the sport! So why don't you all just get back on your horses, and get off of her donkey!!!

wtywmn4
Jul. 17, 2001, 09:23 PM
Colin????????? Is that you dear??

Jumphigh83
Jul. 17, 2001, 09:40 PM
Meadow Muffin...I think you are so full of...um ..well you know, that your name is meadow muffin...meow. hiss. meow. Who really cares about this side show? it just makes good fodder for the BBs. That's all.

Betsy
Lead, follow, or get out of the way...

JulieMontgomery
Jul. 17, 2001, 09:41 PM
To whomever brought it up, the last thing I care about is her emotional issues whether she is age 15 or age 55 ....

If she has issues, take them up on the couch.

/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Heidi
Jul. 17, 2001, 10:21 PM
The thought that people would register an official complaint against this woman is ludicrous. She suffers from lack of judgement, poor taste, whatever else you may deem, but really, at the end of the day, she reflects poorly on herself -- not the sport as a whole and each of you individually.

For those who express concern that their children will be somehow corrupted by the mere sighting of her or the announcement of her horse's name over the speaker at a show - as a mother, must confess, this ranks among the least of my concerns for my children.

I'd also disagree with those who protest that she is somehow denigrating the 'class' inherent in the sport - the child molesters, inethical show managers, drug scandals, dishonourable trainers, and sleazy horse dealers have already seen to that.

I'd also assume that she pays for her trainer's services, show fees, board bills, etc., etc. I think that's adequate enough payment; she doesn't need to further bear the burden of 'representing' him to the show world at large. That's an antiquated notion which should be buried along with the show bows.

That a thread can advance to six pages as you all engage in a merry round of personally bashing this woman is embarassing. Not to mention unconscionably cruel.

"Mommy, does it really matter?" - Sumo toddler, age 3

AAJumper
Jul. 17, 2001, 11:01 PM
Excellent post, Heidi. I was thinking the same thing. In fact, when I read this thread, I was having flashbacks of junior high....you know, that time period when kids can be at their cruelest.

TuxWink
Jul. 18, 2001, 12:00 AM
Although the vivid descriptions are quite amusing and quite shocking, I really don't see anything criminal or dangerous with this person or her taste. Obviously she provides quite a spectacle, but I don't think she is going to morally corrupt any "innocent" bystanders by her horse's name or clothing choices.

MeadowMuffin
Jul. 18, 2001, 05:38 AM
If you really don't care about this "side show", why do you feel the need to bash this woman or anyone else? I don't get it, you think it's fun to go on a thread and make fun of people!!! After reading some of these posts, this goes beyond having a little fun, it's down right cruel. After reading your response to my post, I sense you have your own issues to deal with!!!!!

deleyer
Jul. 18, 2001, 05:43 AM
Well Well Well, this women "Hotty" has us all talking and I am sure she is loving every bit of it. She has definelty made a statement that she could careless what her trainer or what anyone might have to say about her dress code. I feel for the trainer that has to stand at the ingate with her, but then maybe the trainer shouldnt stand there until she cleans up her act. Really if she doesnt have the respect for her own trainer then she doesnt have respect for anyone!!!!
And she isnt blind either, she sees the way everyone else is dressed, But she seems to me that she is going to fight this tooth and nail because as far as she is concerned she pays her enteries and the AHSA gave her a recording number for this horse and no one is going to tell her otherwise!!!! She knows everyone talks about it, she in my own opinion is laughing back at us for it, that is why she is still like the way she is,
So lets sit back and see how the AHSA is going to handle this situation. Hopefully the end result will be in everyones best intrest!!!

Jumphigh83
Jul. 18, 2001, 06:10 AM
Yeah Piece of sh..I mean Meadow Muffin I need a couch..anyone with horses does..we spend all our waking hours, our money and time dropping it all in a big hole called horses..so we have a good time laughing at the SITUATION...so crucify me and my "issues"..how nice to be so morally superior to all of us mortals..thank you for tolerating our collective weakness and was that 5 hail marys and 2 our fathers?? Mea Culpa.

Betsy
Lead, follow, or get out of the way...

wendy2
Jul. 18, 2001, 06:51 AM
I have a 10 year old daughter and a few students who attend the same shows. I have a hard enough time explaining why we braid, wear polished boots, clean tack, tucked in shirts with belts and can't wear the leaopard print saddle pad at shows. I stress respect for the show, judges, their barn and me. Then we see this horse/rider in the schooling ring and the show ring and the questions and the silly childrens jokes start. Now she comes out of the ring and removes her "collared" shirt to wear a sports bra. (It's much cooler you know) Kids are impressionable.

Erin
Jul. 18, 2001, 07:57 AM
MeadowMuffin/JumpHigh... knock it off.

And I agree with whoever compared this to junior high -- that's what I was getting at in my last post. If you want to comment on this woman's behavior or dress, that's fine. But don't make it personal. I'm not directing this toward any one person, I'm just warning ALL of you because I don't like the turn this thread has taken.

I think it's past time to take this away from specific individuals and talk about the issue at large. If this continues to be a rant about one person, I'm going to shut down the thread.

Moesha
Jul. 18, 2001, 08:14 AM
I'm the good one now!!!!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Flash44
Jul. 18, 2001, 08:22 AM
Anyone read the story about the woman who allegedly backed her SUV into a crowd of people - she was mad because she was told to move it out of the fire lane. There are example after example of the lack of respect people have for one another. It starts off small and snowballs into something big, such as deliberately injuring others. I think that as a whole, we need to hold OURSELVES as well as others to higher moral and ethical standards than we see currently exibited by society as a whole. You can't change other people, but you can change yourself and you can lead by example.

The person who gives their horse a name with sexual connotations and dresses the part as well gives the impression that he or she condones that type of behavior, and I don't think that children or other people who don't agree with this type of behavior should be subjected to it. My child is not allowed to view certain videos, TV shows, movies, books, magazines, etc due to their context. I don't want to go to a horse show and find this kind of material running around and being announced over the PA. I would be embarassed to have my parents, friends or other associates visit me at a show and see this.

For the record, I also think that it was in poor taste for Brandy Chastain to whip off her shirt after scoring that goal in the Olympics, or to pose nude with a soccer ball. I do not purchase any merchandise marketed using ads that feature her underdressed. I know sex sells, but that does not mean I have to buy it.

You can do whatever you want with your partner behind closed doors, but frankly, I don't want to hear about it or see it advertised in public. If I need stimulations, I'll go surf the net or rent a movie or whatever.

I went to a schooling show once and forgot my jacket. I was told that I would not be allowed to enter the ring without one. I had my long sleeved shirt, breeches, boots, helmet, gloves, etc. I wasn't happy about borrowing a jacket, but I respect the management's decision.

Gold Dust
Jul. 18, 2001, 08:47 AM
Sooner or later it was bound to happen.Tempers seem to be flaring. What started out to be a thread on innapropriate names and questioning the AHSA's stand on all this has gone off on a tangent here! Being that the case Do you understand why I ask the AHSA to look at the whole picture of issuing a name like that. It opens up cans of worms.
Meadow, since these are your first posts and you came in with a bang could you offer your opinion on the original topic? You came in obviously in defense of this woman but how about commenting on your opinion to the original topic? I am not being sarcastic, I would really like to know your feelings on this. Something tells me you came to this b.b. for this topic only. Most of us from L.I. deal with this on a weekly basis so we look at it a little differently. Respect is the word we keep going back to.

Gold Dust
Jul. 18, 2001, 08:55 AM
As a parent I commend your post. You summed it up in a nutshell.

Jumphigh83
Jul. 18, 2001, 09:32 AM
OK Erin...you're right...I just get a little hot when I get preached at..thanks for setting this back on the straight and narrow.
The topic really IS what is acceptable and what is not. I hope the Federation will solve this once and for all.

Betsy
Lead, follow, or get out of the way...

Ghazzu
Jul. 18, 2001, 09:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I have a 10 year old daughter and a few students who attend the same shows. I have a hard enough time explaining why we braid, wear polished boots, clean tack, tucked in shirts with belts and can't wear the leaopard print saddle pad at shows. I stress respect for the show, judges, their barn and me. Then we see this horse/rider in the schooling ring and the show ring and the questions and the silly childrens jokes start. Now she comes out of the ring and removes her "collared" shirt to wear a sports bra. (It's much cooler you know) Kids are impressionable. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One cannot expect the rest of the world to conform to one's sense of appropriate dress as a means of enforcing one's wishes on one's offspring.
One must, on occasion, exert a little parental authority.

The phrases "Because I'm your mother, that's why,"
"When you are buying all your own clothes and paying your own board and entry fees then you can do as you want,", and "if everyone jumped off a bridge, would you do it, too?" come to mind.

Kids are indeed impressionable, and they will likely get a strong impression that being different is unconsionable if the atnosphere at the showgrounds is anything like that on this thread.

havaklu
Jul. 18, 2001, 09:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LURKNNOMORE:
Although I personally would not name a horse HOT SEX, and I also don't agree with this person's sense of style, I find it offensive to trash and hurt another human being.

While this person might be a little "out there" who has she really harmed? Her children are well-mannered and under control, she doesn't seem to abuse her horses, she minds her own business and she has endured the wise cracks and innuendo without comment.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

sonofatitan
Jul. 18, 2001, 10:28 AM
[Edited to delete name] is the rider of "HS" and i saw a picture of her and GAWD!!!! Tacky! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[This message was edited by Portia on Jul. 18, 2001 at 12:30 PM.]

Portia
Jul. 18, 2001, 10:31 AM
NO NAMES please.

Let's get this away from a particular individual and back to the original subject Laura asked about, or the thread will be closed.

Gold Dust
Jul. 18, 2001, 12:57 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by heidi-ugh:
I'd also assume that she pays for her trainer's services, show fees, board bills, etc., etc. I think that's adequate enough payment; she doesn't need to further bear the burden of 'representing' him to the show world at large. That's an antiquated notion which should be buried along with the show bows.


Please explain that to me Heidi. I was always taught that I represent my trainer as a child and still see it to this day. Am I wrong in saying if you see something strange going on in the ring do you all not look at the in-gate to see who is coaching? Be honest now!

akrogirl
Jul. 18, 2001, 01:05 PM
I tend to agree with you, Gold Dust, about showing respect for your trainer. However, I am also sufficiently old-fashioned to miss the elegant white outfits that used to be worn at Wimbledon - I hate the scruffy, ill-fitting ones worn by most of the men these days /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Heck, I don't even like to see all the long pony tails flying in the International Grand Prix events, LOL. Just call me a traditionalist /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Jen West
Jul. 18, 2001, 01:06 PM
I plan to show only jumpers, I WILL wear a white collared shirt, but over my black Frederick's bra, I will NOT wear undies with my white britches, and I will name my horse "Bush Pilot." (Which is what Maggie on Northern Exposure is, a bush pilot). Any objections?

Flash44
Jul. 18, 2001, 01:22 PM
Then again, what is so surprising about all this in this day of needles, meds, point chasing, shamateurs, overuse, overspending, and oneupmanship? /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Heidi
Jul. 18, 2001, 01:41 PM
First the disclaimer, I don't think (though one never knows /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ) I'd ever enter a show ring panty-less, in a halter top - mostly because my fallen friends would knock against my knees and interfere with my posting.

Secondly, I respect our trainer greatly - he's a great horseman, whose opinion I trust and value. I don't believe, though, that my trust requires of me, the burden of representing him to the show world at large and subsuming my own opinion. I also assume that our trainer possesses the humility to know that, however I may dress, I am only making a fool of myself, not of him.

If I'm paying exorbitant show fees and trainer bills, I do not wish to be dictated to on what I consider to be my personal choice. Yes, do coach me in the warm-up, walk the course with me -- but don't dictate to me the minutest detail of a socially-contrived 'appropriate turnout'.

Furthermore, I witness more unquestioning and gullible trainer-worship than I do 'embarassingly-turned out' clients at the shows; and no, I've never wonderered about the identity of coaches when I've happened upon an oddly turned out rider. I have, though, when I witness lousy riding or abusive behaviour.

In my personal opinion there are too many lemmings in the sport and a part of me is rather supportive of anyone who expresses a streak of 'rebellion' against an artifical and vaunted tradition.

Okey-doke, end of diatribe.

"Mommy, does it really matter?" - Sumo toddler, age 3

Gold Dust
Jul. 18, 2001, 01:42 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by LURKNNOMORE:

While this person might be a little "out there" who has she really harmed? Her children are well-mannered and under control, she doesn't seem to abuse her horses, she minds her own business and she has endured the wise cracks and innuendo without comment.[/QUOTE

LURKN I know you have praised your trainer on many other threads. So now,I ask you to ask yourself your own question again.

just_me
Jul. 18, 2001, 02:16 PM
========================================
heidi-ugh wrote:

Furthermore, I witness more unquestioning and gullible trainer-worship than I do
'embarassingly-turned out' clients at the shows; and no, I've never wonderered about the identity
of coaches when I've happened upon an oddly turned out rider. I have, though, when I witness
lousy riding or abusive behaviour.

In my personal opinion there are too many lemmings in the sport and a part of me is rather
supportive of anyone who expresses a streak of 'rebellion' against an artifical and vaunted
tradition.

==================================================

I hate to just post an "I agree," but I do agree with the above quote and the rest of your post. I couldn't have put my opinion any better. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

MeadowMuffin
Jul. 18, 2001, 02:17 PM
I think the AHSA should not accept names that are inappropriate!!! Maybe my post did not accuratley convey my feelings. I think there is a time and a place for this issue to be discussed. What upsets me is that this thread started out as a topic on "inappropriate names" and quickly snowballed into the bashing of one woman, I just don't think it's right. If people have a problem with a horse's name or a rider's behavior, it should be handled through the proper channels. Ok, you guys want to discuss the topic on COTH, I'm all for that. But what happened to "not mentioning names" and "no personal attacks"? I apologize for my original post, I was trying to make a point and it was not directed at anyone in particular.
As far as the "respect" issue, the only person this woman is disrespecting, is herself! What gives any of us the right to be judge, jury and executioner!!!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Jane
Jul. 18, 2001, 03:25 PM
AHSA should (and does, I believe) reserve the rights to reject names it deems "inappropriate". Of course, that does not stop someone from entering unregistered horses in competitions, and certainly, as Ponypulr pointed out, does not stop one from having the "inappropriate" name monogramed onto everything from saddle pads to flysheets and parade a horse around the show ground. This leads to the issue of morality, a much tougher one to address and draw a line on.

I oppose censorship, but I also believe as long as we live in a society, we, out of respect for others, must conform to certain set of "rules". In a perfect world, everyone would know how to "behave" and we wouldn't need a governorship to tell us what or how we should and shouldn't do or behave. Alas, it's the real world we live in, and without rules, there would be chaos.

I don't have children, but while I believe one can't, and shouldn't "shelter" a child from the unpleasantness of life issues, I can understand the concerns over why a parent wouldn't want his or her child to be "exposed" to inappropriate names annouced over the loud speaker or certain dress style. Yes, the sport has many problems, but they're not annouced over the speaker system and in everyone's face. Isn't this why there are protests whenever an adult shop opens too close to school grounds? certainly not because people are afraid the shop will cause bodily harm, or their kids will spend their lunch money in there.

As for whether certain conducts can have reflection on the sport, I most certaily agree they do; Whether you're conscious of it or not, whenever you experienced or witnessed something, it leaves an impact, and you form an opinion based on it, again, whether you're conscious of it or not. Remember the NY Times article "Entitlement is in the air"?? Those of us in the sport may know that what the article described was about a small percentage of the equestrian sport, but we still had concerns over what "outsiders" may think after reading it.

Michelle Mc
Jul. 18, 2001, 03:43 PM
...And MichelleMC, e-mail me I want to know the name of that poor child!!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Sorry.
Fascinating, huh Devildog?

Jane
Jul. 18, 2001, 03:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by heidi-ugh:

a part of me is rather supportive of anyone who expresses a streak of 'rebellion' against an artifical and vaunted tradition. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Me too! Do you recall Apple's Think Different campaign a couple of years ago, best campaign/commercial ever, IMO! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif However, there's expression, then there's expression, one must tread the line very carefully. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Since akrogirl brought up Wimbledon, I'll use that as an example: I like the all white and ladies must be in a skirt policy...I think it's classic, not to mention how nice it looks against a green lawn /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif , but I don't think one necessarily needs to wear something so "traditional" and stuffy...a nice modern "twist" would add a nice flair.

Twister
Jul. 18, 2001, 04:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by heidi-ugh:
If I'm paying exorbitant show fees and trainer bills, I do not wish to be dictated to on what I consider to be my personal choice.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heidi, 90% of the time, I think you're a genius,(not discussing the other ten now, are we? /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ), but I think the above statement sums up a lot of the attitudes of rude people in general and the horse show crowd in particular. They have spent a fortune to be there so whatever they want, they can have.
I witnessed a rather ugly incident several years ago at KHP when a 'Mounty' stopped an obviously underage golf cart driver and told him to park it and walk. At that moment, his mother came flying up and berated the cop for enforcing the rules. He son, approximately ten, started chiming in with, 'Yeah!' and 'Told you so!' I was horrified. The mother's main point was that her kid needed to have a golf cart because she had to be here and there, etc. on her own golf cart. It might have been her personal choice, but it wasn't right.

Ghazzu
Jul. 18, 2001, 05:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The mother's main point was that her kid needed to have a golf cart because she had to be here and there, etc. on her own golf cart. It might have been her personal choice, but it wasn't right.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Could you explain how a flamboyant dresser with a horse bearing a suggestive name endanger public safety in the same fashion an underage child piloting a motor vehicle?
I seem to have missed it.

Heidi
Jul. 18, 2001, 05:04 PM
Darling Twister, does that mean the remaining 10% of the time, I'm an uber genius? /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Your cited incident had the potential to physically harm not only the 10-year-old child at the wheel but also other spectators. The actions of the mother and child were plainly irresponsible. The decision of a grown woman to dress as she pleases and name her horse Hot Sex do not harm anyone but herself.

Clearly, I'm a strong advocate of personal choice. I'd like to think that we all exercise our choices with consideration and respect for others - and perhaps I'm being naive in my assumption. I've yet, though, to read a compelling argument that this woman's actions, or the actions of anyone else who's equally provocative, affects any of us singly or the sport as a whole. And should we compare this woman's choices with the NYT piece, I'd argue that while we, mostly middle-class folk constitute the majority of the sport's participants, gauging by the posts here, this woman's choices comprise but a small enough minority to ensure that the sanctity of the sport's traditions will not be undermined.

For those who've expressed concern about the children who frequent the shows that said-rider does, I have an 11-year-old daughter who rides. Her reaction to my query, "what do you think of a horse named Hot Sex?", was "That's really stupid". She's not wrong. As far as her dress is concerned, trust me, no pre-teen or teenager looks to middle-aged mothers for their fashion inspiration.

"Mommy, does it really matter?" - Sumo toddler, age 3

Twister
Jul. 18, 2001, 05:36 PM
Ghazzu, I had strayed from the topic of apparel to 'in your face' attitudes in general. I hadn't commented on the individual in question because I haven't seen her and I think girls shouldn't be in lessons wearing tank tops with their bra straps showing so you know where I would stand if I had seen it! That said, You can't legislate good taste or common sense so let her make a fool of herself.

Heidi..uh...yeah, you guessed it! Uber genius! /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

My point was less the infraction and more her attitude, which was, 'I can do what I want because I paid my money.'

Ghazzu
Jul. 18, 2001, 05:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> My point was less the infraction and more her attitude, which was, 'I can do what I want because I paid my money.'

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well there's certainly no dearth of *that* attitude at the average horse show. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Gold Dust
Jul. 18, 2001, 06:09 PM
Heidi-thank you for your reply[which I knew would get some feedback] You are entitled to your opinion and I respect that.We all can not agree all the time. We need a discussion here and we need to see all sides here.

Meadow-I never spoke of the woman personally. I agree,no names should be mentioned but the horses name did, as that is the original question. Being the horse has that name and the rest of the package that goes with it came the outpooring of comments.[and I did say her attire was proper last weekend.I for one took that as a giant step forward] Being that an official protest has been made, it is in the hands of the federation. I can only hope names are screened more carefully soon. My wish would be this woman would see this thread and if she can get past the personal bashings, many people have written legitimate complaints and hopefully can see what is really trying to be said.

Now- to get off personal issues. I believe this has and always should be a sport of class. Once that is gone so will sponsorships,any more future T.V.coverage etc... My trainer once told me to put my jacket on during a warm up to show respect to the judge. Take class out of this sport people and what do we have........?

Ghazzu
Jul. 18, 2001, 06:32 PM
If people really had any respect for the judge, they'd get their horses into the ring in a timely fashion instead of lingering outside while the judge tries to stay awake until their trainer puts in an appearance.

I'd rather see that behavior legislated, as it is far more common than inappropriate dress.

Heidi
Jul. 18, 2001, 06:53 PM
Any perceived 'class' in the sport is an artifical one dictated by marketers, paid pros, and those who'd like the sport to remain an exclusive club.
Perhaps some in the sport would wish to preserve the appearance of tradition and 'class' but the reality of the industry and sport is quite different. I'd further argue that this perceived 'class' (translation: elitism, sport of kings and all that) is what holds the sport back from meaningful sponsorship, tv coverage and mass market interest.

Personally speaking, I'd rather convey to non-riding folk the sheer joy of horses, the intense emotional bonds that we nurture and enjoy with our horses, the awesome sense of accomplishment when training a green horse to the penultimate levels, than perpetuating a social myth.

"Mommy, does it really matter?" - Sumo toddler, age 3

RolexH
Jul. 18, 2001, 07:29 PM
I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but in Florida there is a CHILDREN'S jumper named "Porn Star" . I few girls I used to ride with told me about her. I haven't personally seen it, but I have heard it a lot. IF it is true, I just think it is weird that it is in a children's jumper division. Why would a trainer and a parent let a child name their horse that??? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif
***By the way, the kids that told me think it is "cool".
Ps/ I wonder what it's barn name is? /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

~~Lisa~~

Flash44
Jul. 18, 2001, 07:46 PM
A horse show is not a public park or public spectacle. It is a sporting event with a set of rules, regulations and traditions. Traditional attire is written into the rules. Although jumper attire is more relaxed, it does show gross lack of respect for the sport, management, and judges to compete in attire more suitable to a night club or day at the beach.

And unlike a book, magazine, video or movie, you cannot turn off or throw out an inappropriate name announced on the PA or a competitor running around in inappropriate dress. Most books, movies, videos and even TV shows are censored and given ratings so parents can choose whether or not to let their children see them. When you go to a horse show, you expect to have a day of sport and recreation, not a day in dealing with the sex issue with your kids. It is not the place. Kids DO see and hear too much violence and sex. Horses should be a haven from all that.

And also, I think the Williams sisters are some of the best tennis players around. What incredible talent. However, I think it is almost disgraceful for them to run around in some of the outfits they do. If you want to dress like that at the beach or at a night club, fine. But for heavens sake, this is professional tennis on national television. Have some self respect.

Jumphigh83
Jul. 18, 2001, 07:56 PM
There's the missing ingredient..self respect...developed through self control and dignity, as well as respect for others. Sad but you can't shine (metaphor for doo doo)...no matter how hard you rub on it. There is NO excuse for offending others deliberately and there is no personal victory in that type of "self expression". Why can't people go without clothes?? Because it would be offensive to most civilized people...the same is true at the horse show..act with dignity and self respect. When in Rome.....

Betsy
Lead, follow, or get out of the way...

NoGreatMischief
Jul. 18, 2001, 08:00 PM
Funny you should mention the horse with the name "Porn Star." I've seen baby t-shirts with the same phrase emblazoned on them. There are many other shirts with similar phrases written on them that are highly inappropriate, IMO, when worn by ANYONE, much less teen girls (and boys).

What kind of a message is a shirt like this getting across? What kind of parent allows their child to leave the house wearing such a piece of crap?

Sorry...this isn't *really* related to the topic at hand, but perhaps indicates that kids aren't as shocked by inappropriate/suggestive messages (and by extension, horse names) as we would like to think.

That being said, I can't imagine anyone naming their horse "Hot Sex" (or similar). I can't comment on the individual, but I've already formed my own opinions... Really, would you give such a name to your dog, your cat, your iguana? Why on earth would you give it (the name, that is) to a HORSE?!?!

Sorry...got a little long winded there. I hope it all makes sense. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

It's a lot like nuts and bolts - if the rider's nuts, the horse bolts!
~The Horse Whisperer

K&BHunter
Jul. 18, 2001, 08:16 PM
Who would Decide if the name is "Inappropriate" (SP?) ? I once showed a pony who's barn name was Wedgie so naturally his show name was "In Between the Cracks" He is Registered with the AHSA or the "Federation" whatever they want to call themselves .....but is there really way to draw the line?

*KB Passion*
*KB Love Affair*
*KB Incognito*
*KB Eternity*
*KB Time and time again*
And the Oh so wonderful
*** KB In Heaven ***

JumpTheMoon
Jul. 18, 2001, 08:23 PM
Coming from a 16 year old, I don't find this name offensive. Teenagers see this attitude every day of their life in highschool/sports clubs/band or whatever they wish to do. Why would riding be any different? It's not. Most have been through Sex Ed....this is nothing new. This lady is making a fool of herself and no one else. The good people FAR outnumber the bad. Why must we always dwell on the bad stuff instead of spending our time making the good even better?

Gold Dust
Jul. 18, 2001, 08:26 PM
If there was a thing called 'The morality police'and I could nominate someone-It would be you!

Tradition and this sport. Now,being a middle class person who trains middle class people I must comment on the money issue. Fashion in this sport has always been cut and dry until this issue we are dealing with here. Do we all look like a bunch of cloned stepford wife types at the shows-yup. Because attire has always followed tradition. Although the jumper division has allowed collared shirts, until today I have never seen that questioned or taken to this limit. My clients go in the ring looking like the next guy oozing with money. The horse may show the difference in stature but at least rich or poor we all follow tradition. The rich do sponsor divisions that the middle class compete in. I for one,would not like to see them pull away because the morality code has fallen in the crapper!

Children and this sport. Tradition again. Keeps them off the streets.[hopefully] Shows them how to show respect and uphold a long time tradition. If you want to see the big bad ugly world they will see it. Please lets not show it to them on a horse show ground. Children should be told,here you uphold an old tradition.What you do on your own time is your own choice. Hopefully this sport can say, We have tried to guide them the best we can when they are in our backyard!

Showpony
Jul. 18, 2001, 09:25 PM
I couldn't AGREE more!!

akrogirl
Jul. 18, 2001, 09:52 PM
Talking about inappropriate names, on the way home from the barn tonight, we saw a truck towing some sort of offshore racing boat (Del Mar registered) with the name "Sexual Chocolate" /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Possibly a reference to Mark Henry of the WWF - and yes, having led a sheltered life, I did have to do a web search to find the significance of this name /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (There is a far racier possibility also).

RolexH
Jul. 18, 2001, 10:46 PM
I have to share this: My husband and I were driving in Tampa the other day. There was a service truck pulled up in front of us. The truck was for port-a-potties. It was a very nice, clean professional, and a well equipped vehical. It had the name printed professionally on the side of it. It read:

______ company (wont say the name)
If you don't sh*t, we don't eat.

I COULD NOT believe that it said that. ( and there was no cute "*" in the 'Sh word'.) None the less we were ROTFLMAO...hahaha /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
So my point is I guess people definelty have there own crazy views of what is okay and not okay, horse show or no horse show.

~~Lisa~~

RolexH
Jul. 18, 2001, 10:48 PM
ps/ we were definetly not laughing because it was appropriate. But it sure shocked us. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

~~Lisa~~

havaklu
Jul. 19, 2001, 12:02 AM
BUT...

It is my choice to favor the more conservative. Others choose to be more progressive.

Last time I checked - I live in the USA and I believe the person who named this horse does as well.

Is "Hot Sex" profane? Sugesstive at best IMO and as to the children - I am willing to bet they have heard worse by age 10 at school or on TV or Radio.

Rather than hold the AHSA responsible for many of the reasons stated by others perhaps those who are offended should go to the show manager and let him/her know the distress hearing the words "Hot Sex" is inflicting on you. The show manager has the right to refuse an entry.

I think there are bigger issues to get worked up about than someones taste (or lack thereof) in naming the horse that they own.

IMO this is as superficial, and judgemental as some of the "fashion" threads that seem to be so popular.

I found the tennis analogy interesting - I'm having a Senior moment and I admit I don't follow tennis but I remember my mother all up in arms over the outfits worn by the two sister who I believe are playing quite competatively.

I remember saying "what's wrong with their outfits - just because they are colorful and perhaps a bit revealing? They can wear what they want as they serve up those aces"

I think I'll go try and find a showbow... /infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

JustJumpIt19
Jul. 19, 2001, 01:05 AM
How about the name "Dusty Dick"? Name of an Arab who shows around here. Saw it's name in the VAHA points and my mind thought of this thread, had to post it! :0)

****Courtney****
I ride, therefore I am.

Jumphigh83
Jul. 19, 2001, 06:46 AM
DD needs to "hook up" with HS and then it could be Shiney Dick....No need for "morality police" ..but IF you make a specticle of yourself expect to be fodder for BB or worse.

Betsy
Lead, follow, or get out of the way...

havaklu
Jul. 19, 2001, 07:43 AM
For all we know - she could care less what anyone thinks. Or perhaps she is unaware -

________________________________________________
I was in a barn where the boarders all sat around and giggled when one of the other adults wore what would be considered a bright shade of lipstik. It did detract from the picture and they gleefully giggled behind her back.

I was disgusted at this behavior from supposedly mature adults, many who seemed to feel superior to this intelligent, professional woman who was a novice in the showring.

I was only aquanted with the woman but a few days after the show - I engaged her in conversation and in a tactful manner suggested in the future she choose a more subtle shade. Pointing out that the color she had worn was very appropriate for other situations but in the show ring actually detracted from her lovely horse.

Long story short - we are very good friends even though I now live over 300 miles away.

stephanie
Jul. 19, 2001, 09:50 AM
your posts on this topic are, as usual, thoughtful and well-articulated, and in this case, I agree with you 100%.

When I think of "class" in the horse show world, I think of sportsmanship, winning and losing gracefully, and being kind to and appreciative of our horses. I think equating "class" with what one wears smacks of elitism, which is something I believe we should be working towards eradicating from our sport, rather than fostering.

Someone mentioned that the Williams sisters, and by extension the rider of "Hot Sex" have no self respect. How in the world can you infer that simply from what someone wears?? Perhaps they all base their self respect in their ability to stand out from the crowd proudly...

For those who think legislating what names horses can have and what people can wear on show grounds is preserving the horse show world as a safe haven free from sex, drugs, violence, and all those things we try to hide children from, you have your heads in the sand. All those things exist at horse shows, too.

If you want to instill class and taste in your children, lead by example. Tell them what you think is appropriate for them to wear or say or do. But don't try to shield them from the fact that there are others who will wear, say and do things that you don't agree with....

Sorry if this seems strident, I am just a little depressed at the support for the idea of a "morality police" on this board. Call me a civil libertarian, but it rubs me the wrong way.....

havaklu
Jul. 19, 2001, 09:55 AM
but you got it backwards -

I made the following comment about the William's sisters

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I found the tennis analogy interesting - I'm having a Senior moment and I admit I don't follow tennis but I remember my mother all up in arms over the outfits worn by the two sister who I believe are playing quite competatively.

I remember saying "what's wrong with their outfits - just because they are colorful and perhaps a bit revealing? They can wear what they want as they serve up those aces"

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

stephanie
Jul. 19, 2001, 10:04 AM
havaklu... i was referring to this quote from Flash44, not your comment...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> And also, I think the Williams sisters are some of the best tennis players around. What incredible talent. However, I think it is almost disgraceful for them to run around in some of the outfits they do. If you want to dress like that at the beach or at a night club, fine. But for heavens sake, this is professional tennis on national television. Have some self respect. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Jen West
Jul. 19, 2001, 10:12 AM
I would feel like I owed it to the world to dress the way they do. They are unbelievably athletic. If either lacked in self-respect it would be pretty hard to play as consistantly and as well as they do.

They may well feel that reason others dress more conservatively is that the OTHERS lack self-respect. When I was buff that's how I felt about it, and now that I'm heavier and wear a lot more clothing than I did, I bet I still feel that way.

Dressing is seldom REALLY a moral issue. Maybe the "wild" woman is fed up having to go deal with a bunch of uptight snobs every weekend in order to get her show-jumping fix in. Maybe she would love to ride hunters too, but can't bear to pull her "freak flag" down long enough to suck up to the establishment THAT much. She already has to change shirts to go into the jumper ring, which isn't even JUDGED on appearance. Eh?

Flash44
Jul. 19, 2001, 10:29 AM
I also thought it was disgraceful when Hugh Hefner brought his 3 (or was it 4) girlfriends to the KY Derby showing more skin than the horses. There is a time and a place to dress like that - it is not at a horse show, or Wimbledon. You can get plenty comfy and free to move around in something less revealing. The Williams sisters also design many of their outfits. Another rare and wonderful talent - but why do the dresses have to be backless, sideless and skirts cut up to the crotch? It's like everyone is screaming for attention through their wardrobe.

It doesn't cost a lot of money to dress traditionally. I have one good shirt and one good jacket. It has nothing to do with "class" or whatever you want to call it. I don't ever really care what the woman wears, but the name of the horse is still offensive. There are songs on the radio I won't listen to due to their lyrics, books I won't read due to the content, and companies who's products I won't buy due to their advertising or other practices such as using child labor or sweatshops to manufacture their products.

Flash44
Jul. 19, 2001, 10:36 AM
Gold Dust, yes I am quite the nerd. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

havaklu
Jul. 19, 2001, 10:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I don't ever really care what the woman wears, but the name of the horse is still offensive. There are songs on the radio I won't listen to due to their lyrics, books I won't read due to the content, and companies who's products I won't buy due to their advertising or other practices such as using child labor or sweatshops to manufacture their products.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If she can wear what she wants, listen to what she wants, read what she wants, and buy what she wants just as you do - then why can't she SAY what she wants?

Her horse's name is nothing more than a "statement" and freedom of speech is one of the most fundamental rights we have.

The fact that you find the words Hot Sex offensive is more your problem than it is hers.

brilyntrip
Jul. 19, 2001, 11:27 AM
hear hear!!!!!!

Gold Dust
Jul. 19, 2001, 12:06 PM
Flash, there is a difference between the sterotyped nerd[ie masking tape around the brim of glasses] and people who like to follow tradition. You still have my vote!!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

To those of you who do not know me just a little clarification here. My son who is 13 works jump crew for some of our local shows. I do not like him to be sujected to reading the name but
I have raised him well and he has told me way befor this thread it was 'unappropriate'.[shining mother moment] He knows about this sport and tradition and when he shows he follows suit.In school he is in those horrid baggy pants I can not stand but I let him express himself. He knows when and where to be expressive!

Now,I was waiting on posting this until my flame retardent suit arrived so here goes. All the advocates for expressing yourself- do you think if this woman was riding in the open jumper division and in the schooling ring with all those grand-prix riders her use of that name and being on the saddle pad would last more then 5 minutes?Come on now-answer honestly!

Iceman
Jul. 19, 2001, 12:27 PM
I couldn't see it lasting more than 30 seconds!!

Heidi
Jul. 19, 2001, 12:30 PM
You mean, Gold Dust, will her 'integrity' remain intact competing against, and amid, drug addicts, alcoholics, horse abusers, money gougers, cheaters, and scam artists? /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Good golly, if the morality police need to storm troop anything it's among the ranks of some pros.

And speaking of concern for children and 'morality' - exactly how do some of you think her children would react should they stumble onto this thread; and where is the 'morality' in publicly bashing this rider?

"Mommy, does it really matter?" - Sumo toddler, age 3

stephanie
Jul. 19, 2001, 12:30 PM
gold dust... I don't really understand the point of your question. That someone who is tacky and tasteless probably will never be a top level rider? That at the grand prix level the peer pressure to conform would be so much more intense that she would drop her freaky affectations? That she'd be more likely to pay attention to the jumps than her attire if she were jumping that big?

I agree that it's unlikely that you'd see someone like that in the grand prix schooling ring, but I'm not sure what the significance of that is.

Erin
Jul. 19, 2001, 12:45 PM
People, you've been warned multiple times to take this AWAY from discussion of individuals. I'm going to start deleting posts that are focusing too narrowly on one person. Talk about the issue at large all you want, but this doesn't need to be a crucifixion of any one individual.

Also, I think comments on someone's riding ability or lack thereof are cheap shots and have absolutely zilch to do with the discussion.

Watch yourselves, please.

Michelle Mc
Jul. 19, 2001, 12:46 PM
There will always be those who feel the need to be cheesecakes.

Thank goodness we have the right to our individuality.

May the good lord bless the attornies who defend your right to freedom of speech.

/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Smart Alec
Jul. 19, 2001, 12:48 PM
As much as anyone of us may not like the name of the womans horse...it is her right to name her horse what she would like. Also, as for her dress, people may not like the way she dresses but thankfully we do have a right to choose what we wear. I personally think she sounds tacky BUT I don't feel like it's my business to tell her what to do, wear, say, eat, drink, ect...
Also, I don't think she is what we need to be worrying about. I think Heidi sort of brought up a good point. There are "drug addicts, alcoholics, horse abusers, money gougers, cheaters, and scam artists" and the like that we should be going after, not some tart and her horse....really guys, she is small peanuts. The only thing she is really threatening in this sport is tradition. In my opinion, the hunter world could use a little updating (check out the latest golfers and tennis players) I personally love Venus and Serina Williams and what they wear. I think it suits tennis quite well, as it is a sport where you need to move often, fast, and precisely--the more layers you have on---the tougher that is. Ok ok, I'll stop now! Just my 2 cents and I'll be throwin' my flame suit on right now! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Michelle Mc
Jul. 19, 2001, 12:51 PM
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
� The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution

JulieMontgomery
Jul. 19, 2001, 01:10 PM
Will this be over soon?

Anything more we can wring out of it? /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Smart Alec
Jul. 19, 2001, 01:16 PM
"Well I for one am seriously inspired by this thread.

I plan to show only jumpers, I WILL wear a white collared shirt, but over my black Frederick's bra, I will NOT wear undies with my white britches, and I will name my horse "Bush Pilot." (Which is what Maggie on Northern Exposure is, a bush pilot). Any objections?"


HAHAHAHAHAHA! I just read through the entire thread and came upon this....you are a riot!
/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

C-Urchn
Jul. 19, 2001, 01:16 PM
How about the financial aspect of it all. /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif
The impact on horse show, Fed and trainer income if horse names are regulated.

Gold Dust
Jul. 19, 2001, 01:42 PM
You took me the wrong way on that one. I have never personally attacked this woman at all once on this thread.As I have said befor-it is the name of the horse that is in question. Then my personal ideas on traditional dress. I have never once talked about her riding ability.And,for the record,her horse is a legit competitor in the Adult jumper division. He jumps around and has made it possible for them to take home good prizes. Not at all did I mean that she could not be competing in a higher level if she wanted to.It's traditional dress and a non offensive name I am trying to cover.

Let's make this easy here so we can get real answers without it turning personal. I will call said horse.....hmmmmm...Sex with a @%$# and a $%##@......The rider is trying to enter the ring with a see through shirt but it has a collar.No bra by the way.

Now- can we all answer based on this imaginary person I just made up and not personally attack one.

Canter
Jul. 19, 2001, 01:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by C-Urchn:
How about the financial aspect of it all. /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif
The impact on horse show, Fed and trainer income if horse names are regulated.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


...not to mention Fredricks of Hollywood! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Erin
Jul. 19, 2001, 01:54 PM
Gold Dust, the post I was referring to has since been deleted, by the poster, I assume. (Good call, btw.)

But I'm still seeing words like "tart" and "floozy" being thrown around... so, again, please take this away from specifics and talk about the issue in general. Imaginary examples are welcomed. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

orange
Jul. 19, 2001, 02:35 PM
First, the AHSA should be able to refuse any name it wants. It's a private organization, if you join, you agree to play by it's rules. If you don't like their rules, don't join, simple as that. Having said that...

I've read every post in this thread and I consider the attitudes and comments expressed here to be way more shocking and offensive than anything anyone could wear or name their horse. I would rather see neon green halter tops and orange lipstick any day than see a group of people who think that they are so morally superior that they can be the arbiter of others' actions. I would rather see nasty words stitched on a cooler in hot pink letters than to think that there are those who would gleefully mock a total stranger. I would rather ride buck naked on a horse named "You Can Kiss my A**" than submit to a bunch of people who think that "tradition and class" is determined by what you wear and not how you treat your fellow human beings.

Smart Alec
Jul. 19, 2001, 02:38 PM
Sorry about that...my intention was good. I shouldn't have said tart--sorry 'bout that! My post, more simply put, was meant to say that whomever should be allowed to wear what they want and name their horse what they want. Whether we 'like it' or think it 'appropriate' is not our decision...it is a free country and we have choices and rights that are ours. I think the whole thing is pretty tame and we should be worrying about 'real criminals' not somebody who likes to dress funny. If someone were to wear a Bigbird suit and ride really well...would you object? /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Smart Alec
Jul. 19, 2001, 02:40 PM
"...than submit to a bunch of people who think that "tradition and class" is determined by what you wear and not how you treat your fellow human beings."

RumoursFollow
Jul. 19, 2001, 03:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gold Dust:
The rider is trying to enter the ring with a see through shirt but it has a collar.No bra by the way.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I would hope no female would subject themselves to that!! OUCH! I dunno about yall but I think the LAST thing I would want to forget when getting on my horse at a horse show would be my undergarments. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Jen West
Jul. 19, 2001, 03:37 PM
Apparently there are women not as "blessed" as ourselves who don't have enough "shake" to warrant that order of fries, who can sit a trot braless without being pulled out of the saddle by counter-weights, all of those other lovely euphemisms we can come up with...

I personally would think that the discomfort of riding braless would prevent those who "oughtn't" from so doing. If not, the act itself must be punishment enough!

hcon
Jul. 19, 2001, 03:46 PM
I don't know Jen West, I'm not exactly "gifted" and find it incredibly painful to go without "support". But than again I feel naked without gloves!

deleyer
Jul. 19, 2001, 06:41 PM
No bra "and that is her problem if she doesnt wear one" Hummmmmm if they dont hurt bouncing then they aint real to begin with. But lets get back to the name of the horse, isnt this what we really want to get to the bottom of, "not what she wears under her britches".
Hot Sex, I dont no How, and Why it got passed the AHSA to even give such a recording number with that name. Come on, lets forget the rider here, She is another topic altogether, When I hear that name I can only think of something that people pay to watch on there cable box!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Hot2Trot
Jul. 19, 2001, 07:44 PM
I find the verbal attacks on this thread to be more shocking than any horse's name or rider's attire.
I am disgusted by the viciousness and cruelty of the "mob like" attack on this woman. I seem to remember reading something about keeping "class" in this sport. If this is what's considered "classy", you can keep it!!!!

Flash44
Jul. 19, 2001, 08:21 PM
I have no problem with the rider or what she wears, just the name of the horse. If it was not announced over the PA, I would not have a problem with it. Sure, freedom of speech and 1st Amendment and all, but when that freedom is blasted over the PA on multiple occasions and that freedom is an explicit term that offends others, is one really treating others with decency and respect? /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Daphnes hair dresser
Jul. 19, 2001, 08:36 PM
Anyone else out there old enough to remember a famous Canadian Stallion named, " Greek Jab?" He had a son they called, "Jabber Junior!!"

How about the Chestnut Stallion named, " Penatrator?"

How is that for rude? /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

PONYPULR
Jul. 19, 2001, 09:03 PM
I think she may be getting a bit extreme with see-through garments. At most shows I attend, all it takes is rust breeches.

"Nothing ruins a neighborhood, like neighbors." L. Greening

PONYPULR
Jul. 19, 2001, 09:04 PM
And, maybe a yellow horse.

"Nothing ruins a neighborhood, like neighbors." L. Greening

Laura Reed
Jul. 19, 2001, 09:42 PM
How silly of me to think I'd see just a few pages of posts that would simply answer the original question.

I'm sorry, Erin, that you've had to keep track of so much unnecesary, often ugly, BS. (I know what it's like!)

I'm sorry, owner of Hot Sex, that a number of posters took a variety of cheap shots at you. (Talk about "class"!) May I apologize on their behalf?

Final thoughts: I do think the Federation should decline horse recordings that include inappropriate names. How? Not sure yet. A list of inappropriate words? Sex should be one of them.

And lastly, one of the bugs in this issue/thread is due to classic PEBSAC Problem Exists Between Screen And Chair. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

pinkhorse
Jul. 20, 2001, 05:27 AM
Well, it's funny in the show ring. In especially the hunters and equitation when you sorta have to dress pretty much the same as the other 25 people in your class, even in the jumpers where it's a little hard to stand out people do what they can to be noticed. Boots with fluff linings. Purple shirts. Crocheted ear covers, now with contrasting stripes. Coats with piping. Hm. Guess those are all fads now. How about paints, appy's, roans (my favorite, since I have one)? Hm. I'm not the only one anymore.

How else can I catch the attention of the judges and all the sheep at the horse show? I know, how about a catchy name? We used to have threads about how much we liked those catchy names. Now we're all offended by one.

It's my believe that offence, as beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. You have the choice over whether to be offended by someone's name or appearance. If you're worried about your children then it's your job to teach them what you consider to be appropriate. As the Sumo baby said, (and I paraphrase) "Does it matter?" Teach your children well (what a great line for a song... /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

This person who's been the topic of discussion, much to Erin's dismay, has certainly done what she wanted to do. Rope people in to noticing her. Just like the people in the purple shirts. (Well, the ones that had them before everyone else did.)

Louise
Jul. 20, 2001, 05:32 AM
I am appalled by all of this. All of you people are jumping all over yourselves comdemming this woman, both for the name of her horse, and for her appearance. Meanwhile, you have spread this name all over this 10 (That's TEN) page thread, on a BB that is read by children all over the country and the world. Now, I would be willing to bet that more kids have been exposed to this name on this thread, then have had to hear it at a show.

As for the way she looks, well it may not be traditional, or even what you might consider appropriate, but let me remind you the this is still a free country, and it seems to me that she is entitled to dress as she sees fit. Let me also remind you of the name "Erin Brochovitch." The lady didn't exactly dress in a businesslike manner, but she sure got the job done.

You know, I'm an old, fat lady. I don't have any fashion sense at all, and I don't even bother to dye my hair, to look more youthful. I wonder how many of you would walk right by me, and turn up your noses, because I was not the picture of someone who looks like she "belongs." And, that is what this is about, looking like the picture you all have in your head of the proper equestrian, not any great moral indignity.

I've been very proud of a lot of threads on this forum. This is NOT one of them.

You have been warned by Erin, and I just deleted another nasty post. KNOCK OFF THE PERSONAL ATTACKS!

[This message was edited by Louise on Jul. 20, 2001 at 07:51 AM.]

brilyntrip
Jul. 20, 2001, 06:32 AM
Um.. dont we all think that its time to bury this dead Horse????Cuz i reeeeallly do!

Michelle Mc
Jul. 20, 2001, 06:53 AM
Moderatettes:
I suggest this rampage meet it's demise.
Thank you.

This morning I cannot find the VA statute that allows for unlimited personal attacks.

/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Louise
Jul. 20, 2001, 06:55 AM
You know, I think that brilyntrip and Michelle Mc are absolutely correct.

This thread is officially closed.