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brilyntrip
Nov. 4, 2001, 06:09 PM
I have just judged another horse show.I judged the jumper equitation ring ... .Only the mini eq filled but I must say I am appalled!When I tested few knew how to execute an half turn on the forehand and worse yet ... NO one knew where the COFFIN BONE WAS!!!
I am now making this a type of mission ... I am going to document when I test what these kids know ....
Anyone out there experiencing the same problems???

brilyntrip
Nov. 4, 2001, 06:09 PM
I have just judged another horse show.I judged the jumper equitation ring ... .Only the mini eq filled but I must say I am appalled!When I tested few knew how to execute an half turn on the forehand and worse yet ... NO one knew where the COFFIN BONE WAS!!!
I am now making this a type of mission ... I am going to document when I test what these kids know ....
Anyone out there experiencing the same problems???

Fiction
Nov. 4, 2001, 06:12 PM
What show did you judge?

-----

~Princess~

ErinB
Nov. 4, 2001, 06:14 PM
I don't know where the coffin bone is. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif I know, bad Erin.

~Erin
Be alert. The world needs more lerts.

daytimedrama
Nov. 4, 2001, 06:18 PM
i only know where it is b/c Wesley used to have coffin joint injections!

~Christina~
"Chaos is what killed the dinosaurs, Darling!"
JD;Heathers
*Nothing is foolproof to a talented fool.*

brilyntrip
Nov. 4, 2001, 06:23 PM
Darling girl when you ride does anyone teach you about what you are riding around on???

OnceAThief
Nov. 4, 2001, 06:39 PM
This might make you cry - it almost made me.

I was working at a lesson barn a few years ago; one of my jobs was to watch the lesson kids as they were getting ready for shows. Before one "big" local show, they were cleaning bridles without taking them apart. I told them to take them apart and really scrub them, to which someone replied, "But how will we know how to put them back together?!" They couldn't even put the noseband back on if I took it off.. ack!

findeight
Nov. 4, 2001, 06:45 PM
really need to learn this stuff at least to talk to the vet.
Ignorance is not restricted to the show ring. Bet half those kids couldn't name the president. Of the United States. Even in my barn the stuff is repeatedly taught but it's in one ear out the other.
Since this was a mini medal not a big one maybe the turn on the haunches was a bit over their heads. Maybe stick to a trot fence and a roll back, drop stirrups to exit. Don't you just hate it when you lose your winner this way?
You really can't solve this one nor can the trainers. It is a parent thing. Kids have always wanted everything on a silver platter without lifting a finger-parents foster this crap by not teaching anything resembling a work ethic.
Don't take it personally.

From Allergy Valley USA

ErinB
Nov. 4, 2001, 06:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Darling girl when you ride does anyone teach you about what you are riding around on??? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well... in a word, no. I even starting riding at a pony club-type barn. They DID teach me about tacking up and grooming during the first lesson. However, everyone there was always in a rush (large barn) so it's not like they sat me down one day and said, "Erin, this is a coffin bone." (by the way, now would be a good time to learn... where is the coffin bone?)
It was the same with wrapping- always easier to do it for you than teach you how. We didn't have grooms! But whoever was around that knew how to do something figured it was easier to do it themselves.

When I moved my horses home I did have to learn all that stuff, but my knowledge now is still kind of erratic. I know what I NEED to know, but that's it. I'm still not too familar with horse anatomy. However to be quite honest, I don't think there's many barns that teach that. At least, I've never been to one. /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

~Erin
Be alert. The world needs more lerts.

Sparky22
Nov. 4, 2001, 06:57 PM
I've always been thoroughly disappointed in the ignorance of some riders...thoroughly disappointed. Another thing about it that I hate is that their ignorance automatically gets thrown back in the faces of the knowledgable with questions similar to: "Don't these kids take the time to learn these things??" "In our day..." I understand why people become upset with the ignorance of some of today's riders, because I feel the same way.

I was fortunate enough to be a "barn rat." I have spent the greater part of my free time at the barn since I was about 8 or 9 years old. Now I'm 18. I certainly don't know everything there is to know about horses, but I can honestly say that I know more than a lot of riders my age that I have encountered. I spent so many hours with the vets, farriers, and my trainer, that I aquired a lot of useful knowledge and experiences. I've been in all sorts of medical emergencies...helped nurse horses back to health after sickness and injury...all the things I wish everyone could experience. Part of my appreciation for these animals and for the sport in general comes with everything I have seen and done.

The truth of the matter is that not every kid has the time or perhaps the dedication to be at the barn all the time. There are kids whose parents won't allow it (my father was/is one of them...not that I ever listened), and there are also kids whose trainers, etc. don't take the time to teach such things.

I always took pride in what I knew, and took the initiative to learn the things I didn't. I never want to be caught with my head in the sand and my @$$ in the air when something happens to a horse...and I would certainly be embarassed if I could not answer a simple horse-wise question. I would personally like to see more horsemanship testing, like what is done at New England Finals..I think that is great. Maybe then more riders would take the initiative to learn more about their horses...

~~Kate~~

"I love to get home after a long day and go to sleep late. I love to wake up before the sun. I love to spend the day in the sun, with it's rays warming my skin. I love the mist of the cold hose. I love not being able to feel my fingers and toes in the winter. I love to stand on the hill, letting a friend graze in a warm wind. I love the smell of that wonderful place...I live to ride, and I ride to live."

ErinB
Nov. 4, 2001, 06:58 PM
I do ask my vet a lot of things! However, the location of the coffin bone never came up in our discussion. I am not ignorant, I know perfectly well how to care for a horse and I have done a lot of research on my own. But honestly it never occured to me to ask. Learning about Banamine seemed a little more important.

It's NOT just me, by the way. Lots of trainers probably don't know this, either.

~Erin
Be alert. The world needs more lerts.

brilyntrip
Nov. 4, 2001, 06:59 PM
I purposely did not ask for turn on the haunch
knowing that would certainly be too difficult.I assumed ( you all know about assume right ) that a turn on the FOREHAND would not be too much ??? I also aske dthe following questions?? If the trot is a two beat gait how many beats is the handgallop??Where is the Coffin bone???Well I am on my crusade now . I will no longer make up easy tests.I will ask something difficult each time I have the oppurtunity. This is something like the crusade I went on after I judged a show where the Maclay course was 2'6". Short stirrup riders were the fillesr . I asked the steward if this was really going to happen?? His reply was well lets ask the show manager course designer.Th reply to us was well the course "looks about 3'6" to me".Ok so I called the head of AHSA eq committe the next day about making sure the sentence saying COURSE SET AT ABOUT 3'6" was tightened up. I still think its too lose . But I tried!

Sparky22
Nov. 4, 2001, 07:01 PM
Go to Yahoo (or any other search engine) and do a search for anything you have questions about. There are tons of great books out about the various bones, muscles, etc. Also, I have a great book all about feet...if I knew the name, I would tell ya, but I can't remember it!

I would tell ya the answer....but what's the fun in that? lol...good luck, if you don't find the answer you are looking for, drop me an email.

~~Kate~~

"I love to get home after a long day and go to sleep late. I love to wake up before the sun. I love to spend the day in the sun, with it's rays warming my skin. I love the mist of the cold hose. I love not being able to feel my fingers and toes in the winter. I love to stand on the hill, letting a friend graze in a warm wind. I love the smell of that wonderful place...I live to ride, and I ride to live."

OnceAThief
Nov. 4, 2001, 07:02 PM
This is probably cheating, but...

Sparky22
Nov. 4, 2001, 07:09 PM
and I have another great book on all the stuff in the legs and various lamenesses associated with feet and legs...if only I knew the title...

"I love to get home after a long day and go to sleep late. I love to wake up before the sun. I love to spend the day in the sun, with it's rays warming my skin. I love the mist of the cold hose. I love not being able to feel my fingers and toes in the winter. I love to stand on the hill, letting a friend graze in a warm wind. I love the smell of that wonderful place...I live to ride, and I ride to live."

Gold Dust
Nov. 4, 2001, 07:12 PM
I believe, many trainers today are producing little machines on horses. A little robot on a horse is not a bright future in this sport.Step off the horse, and they have no idea how anything works. Sad. The day and age of grooms-also sad for so many.Grooms should just make things a little easier for you, not do EVERYTHING. Look ahead people- it is a sad future I see for our horses. The last few horsemen around better pass the torch! It should not be in any ones thinking that it is easier to do it myself-TEACH IT!

Sorry Erin. I feel it is sad you feel you need to know what banamine is and did not know where the coffin bone is. You really have to know all parts of the horse and how they work and why they can shut down-then learn what can help them and not mask the problem. Everyone could be a much better rider if they knew what was bothering the horse.

Fiction
Nov. 4, 2001, 07:12 PM
I know where the coffin bone is, & the navicular bone too! Cuz both ponies had Navicular issues, and the eq horse is on 6 months rest due to his Coffin bone(AKA Pedel bone) issue...Pedelostitis, an inflammation of the coffin bone...Really annoying & traumatic for not just horse but owner /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

-----

~Princess~

Jane
Nov. 4, 2001, 07:16 PM
Trip: I remember a few years ago Steve asked one of his kids during a lesson where the poll was, and the kid pointed to the poles on the ground. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif You should've seen Steve's face! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

This is a problem that exists beyond the local shows... I recall reading an article in the COTH a year or two ago, by either GM or VHV, after he judged one of the top eq. class at a big indoor, and his disbelieve in what the top riders couldn't answer....one question was (paraphrasing here): "how can you tell if a horse is colicing?" answer: "hmm...call my vet?"

ErinB
Nov. 4, 2001, 07:20 PM
Well, does it make it any better that I've only been riding for a few years?

I was just saying that I don't know where the coffin bone is. I'm hardly a machine on a horse. I've never had a groom, I work at the barn to help pay off my board, I mix my own feed. Just because I didn't know where the coffin bone was doesn't mean I'm some primadonna who can't take care of a horse. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif And the Banamine incident was awhile back- everyone has to learn sometime, you aren't born knowing what Banamine is.

~Erin
Be alert. The world needs more lerts.

spaz
Nov. 4, 2001, 07:22 PM
Good for you! I do the 2'6" Medal on my curcuit and I hate when they give us simple hunter courses, or maybe throw in a single or two, and say it's a Medal course! We practice loops and bendings and all that good stuff at home, so I like to put it to the test at shows /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://jrsclique.proboards.com/index.cgi
Junior Clique!

*What if the Hokey-Pokey IS what it's all about?*

Jane
Nov. 4, 2001, 07:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gold Dust:
It should not be in any ones thinking that it is easier to do it myself-TEACH IT!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey, that's what I've been trying to tell my trainer.... on grooming/horsemanship stuff. For example, if I'm not doing something right, tell me or show me the right way, instead of just doing it himself. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

luv2jump
Nov. 4, 2001, 07:26 PM
BRILYNTRIP:

Good for you!!! I am all for judges asking points of a horse. (I am a vet).
I think it is a sad state of affairs that many kids nowadays have no real knowledge of the parts of the horse ( or tack for that matter. )
I guess we can hope that the losers of the classes you judge ( not due to lack of riding talent, but basic horse knowledge) may decide to put an anatomy book on their Xmas wish list rather than a new riding shirt or pair of breeches. may you also become known as the 'tough judge that askes questions....." - not unlike the one who was famous for making Maclay riders dismount and remount in the ring , un assisted as part of the test. Some kids just would not show if that judge was there!!!
I gave a lesson at my old barn one day and asked each kid ( all doing the mini- medals/maclays) to without looking , tell me how many , if any white legs their horse had. It was sickening that NONE of them knew how many or which leg. Then when I asked how may feet in the normal canter stride, they looked at me like I had 3 heads. Now these kids pay upward of $75.00 an hour for private lessons!! No idea how to "walk a course" or how many feet in a canter stride. Whose fault is THAT??? it is pretty depressing to me!!! Maybe that is why I decided to become a vet instead of a trainer!!! LOL

HAC
Nov. 4, 2001, 07:33 PM
Hate to get on your case but you really need to read up on vet care if you have a horse and especially if you keep it at home. The coffin bone and its realative importance is not a blue moon occurance. If you ever have a horse founder, it's the bone that rotates. I remember a time when I was trying out a farm for riding lessons and there was a horse colicing(sp)The barn had working students(term used loosely)taking care of the horse and confering with the vet. Turns out the vet cancelled the call because the horse "went to the bathroom", of course no one ever told the kids the vet meant passing manure. Had no idea about cappilary refill test, and did not care to know. What a fiasco, I almost flipped out.As it turns out the horse died, he wasn't colicing,his body was shutting down.Please don't wait for someone to teach you, take it on youself to learn.

findeight
Nov. 4, 2001, 07:43 PM
Most of the major clinicians start the clinics by reviewing equipment then asking some questions as they walk around. If you ride with GM you'd better know what kind of bit you horse has in his mouth or will you ever have a bad time.

From Allergy Valley USA

Gold Dust
Nov. 4, 2001, 07:44 PM
Hey, that's what I've been trying to tell my trainer.... on grooming/horsemanship stuff. For example, if I'm not doing something right, tell me or show me the right way, instead of just doing it himself. [quote from jane]

Jane,
I do believe the spirit of all horsepeople could pay us a visit in all his grandeur and he still would do it himself!!! lol Actually,I believe your barn is one of very few that does NOT have an in house groom. That says a lot in my book for you guys !!!! Keep up the good work!

But-seriously,people, ever try asking your grooms or trainers what they are doing and why? If you look for the knowledge, you will learn it. Look for the easy way out and it is your loss. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

findeight
Nov. 4, 2001, 07:47 PM
Most of the major clinicians start the clinics by reviewing equipment then asking some questions as they walk around. If you ride with GM you'd better know what kind of bit you horse has in his mouth or will you ever have a bad time.
At least around here the trainers do teach it but it just doesn't stick. They even have a zone 5 horsemanship class every year at the Cincy summer show that has a written test. High score was about 65 both the last two years. Pretty pathetic but not sure anyone specific is to blame.
I guess the teen years are still tough and stressful. Or they can't be bothered.

From Allergy Valley USA

Zaboobafoo
Nov. 4, 2001, 07:54 PM
You know, it honestly makes me angry that everyone is like, "well the trainer's don't teach it", or "no one ever told me." What, do you have to be spoonfeed everything???

Granted, I've ridden for a long time, had lots of horses with soundness problems(the only way I could afford good, sane ones), but most of what I learned in my years, I READ in a book! That's why they wrote them!! A person who takes care of all their own horses should know(and WANT to know, all on their own) all the major bones, ligaments, tendons....everything!

I taught summer camp for many many years and tried to teach the kids, gave them fliers, books, talks with vets and farriers....they remember it for the end of year test, then its gone.

Even my best friend and riding partner, when I tried to teach her something, would often say, "well, you know already and know more then me, why do I have to learn?"

It comes from wanting to be horse people and a responsible horse owner. You have to WANT the knowledge and go out and obtain it yourself.

Now hit the books!!!

ErinB
Nov. 4, 2001, 07:59 PM
How do you think I learned everything else that my trainer didn't teach me? I DID teach myself! I'm sorry I didn't memorize everything, but I do the best I can.

That is ONE thing I don't know. I didn't know where the coffin bone was. I learned. I'm sorry. My horses won't drop down dead.

~Erin
Be alert. The world needs more lerts.

Jane
Nov. 4, 2001, 08:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gold Dust:
I believe your barn is one of very few that does NOT have an in house groom. That says a lot in my book for you guys !!!! Keep up the good work!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, there are in-house grooms, but, there are grooms, and there are GROOMS! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif They're nice enough and want to learn, and are learning fast, but I've had to show them a few things myself when I saw them doing something incorrectly. That said, you know if I have any questions, I'd only ask my trainer or my vet, no one else! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Sparky22
Nov. 4, 2001, 08:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ErinB:
_How do you think I learned everything else that my trainer didn't teach me?_ I DID teach myself! I'm sorry I didn't memorize everything, but I do the best I can.

That is ONE thing I don't know. I didn't know where the coffin bone was. I learned. I'm sorry. My horses won't drop down dead.

~Erin
Be alert. The world needs more lerts.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't worry Erin, you can't know about something that you didn't know was there..right? It isn't your fault. It's good to know that you are working to learn more. Keep it up, it will only make you a better rider and a better friend to your horse(s).

~~Kate~~

"I love to get home after a long day and go to sleep late. I love to wake up before the sun. I love to spend the day in the sun, with it's rays warming my skin. I love the mist of the cold hose. I love not being able to feel my fingers and toes in the winter. I love to stand on the hill, letting a friend graze in a warm wind. I love the smell of that wonderful place...I live to ride, and I ride to live."

Kryswyn
Nov. 4, 2001, 08:12 PM
A Master of Foxhounds, who is SUPPOSED to have knowledge of horses, hounds and hunting as WELL as deep pockets, once came into the store and told me, "I need a strappy thing."

Of course, Master, which kind of 'strappy thing' would you like? We have lots of 'strappy things' here /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

"You know, the strappy thing that goes around the neck and is attached to the belt and his nose."

Oh, you mean a martingale or did you want one that also attaches to the chair... I mean saddle which would be a breastplate strappy thing..... /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

~Kryswyn~
"Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo"

Gold Dust
Nov. 4, 2001, 08:14 PM
furacin sweat
poultice
working blister
spider bandage
just a few off the top of my head.....

do we know what these things are or does the groom just take care of our horses? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

DarkerHorse
Nov. 4, 2001, 08:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zaboobafoo:
You know, it honestly makes me angry that everyone is like, "well the trainer's don't teach it", or "no one ever told me." What, do you have to be spoonfeed everything???

Granted, I've ridden for a long time, had lots of horses with soundness problems(the only way I could afford good, sane ones), but most of what I learned in my years, I READ in a book! That's why they wrote them!! A person who takes care of all their own horses should know(and WANT to know, all on their own) all the major bones, ligaments, tendons....everything!

I taught summer camp for many many years and tried to teach the kids, gave them fliers, books, talks with vets and farriers....they remember it for the end of year test, then its gone.

Even my best friend and riding partner, when I tried to teach her something, would often say, "well, you know already and know more then me, why do I have to learn?"

It comes from wanting to be horse people and a responsible horse owner. You have to WANT the knowledge and go out and obtain it yourself.

Now hit the books!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Riding is fun. It is not our job. Why do we NEED to know these parts of the horse to be a responsible horse owner? Yes, you should know it if you are showing. Yes, it is a good thing to know. Seriously though. . .

If you are a weekend trail rider, why do you need to know the clinical names of various features on horse legs? If the horse is lame call the vet. Simple as that.

I believe the topic here is degredation of the equitation classes.

If you get pleasure out of studying horse parts, then have at it. Do you own any other vets? Do you know all of the other tendon/ligament/muscle/footbone names?

-----
http://www.catchride.com

Zaboobafoo
Nov. 4, 2001, 08:17 PM
Erin, I didn't mean to single you out, I was speaking on much more general terms. I am sorry if it came across as a personal attack.

The lack of people, in general, in and out of the horse show world, to figure things out for themselves really gets to me. Its a subject which I have REALLY strong, adverse feelings about.

Keep reading and learning and remember there is ALWAYS more to learn /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

DarkerHorse
Nov. 4, 2001, 08:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gold Dust:
furacin sweat
poultice
working blister
spider bandage
just a few off the top of my head.....

do we know what these things are or does the groom just take care of our horses? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

furacin sweat - a sweat with furacin. I did one today on one of my horses who had a bruise.

poultice- uh, are you serious? Its the clay stuff that you glob on to reduce swelling. You stick a wet paper bag over it to keep it wet longer.

working blister - I would not attempt to blister my horse myself.

spider bandage- Type that goes over a joint (hock or knee). I had to wrap my hunter in one when he got fungus at gulfport. His knee got swollen because of the weird fungus. Speaking of that- did anyone else's horse get that if they went to gulfport? Like sooo many of them got it. I think it was in the shavings.

-----
http://www.catchride.com

Gold Dust
Nov. 4, 2001, 08:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Darkerhorse:
poultice- uh, are you serious?
-----
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't laugh darkerhorse. Someone once asked me what that stuff was on a horse because it smelled funny. /infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif That is where the groom day and age scares me. I hope more people can respond to that as quick as you did![in your head so we don't tie up the whole thread lol] It is the ones reading it, going what??? that are quite frighteing to me. The ones that do know make me have the sigh of relief!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

brilyntrip
Nov. 4, 2001, 08:33 PM
Please don't take my comments so personally.I was
not putting you down.I am an old fashioned type my own 7 yr old daughter tacks her own pony up even if it takes a real long time because I refuse to allow her to be one of those people who ride but only ride. I think a real horseman rides as well as knows the horse .Riding and showing are only a part of our sport .For the competitors I judge to think that they are riders when they might not be able to take a bridle apart and put it back together again or not know what laminitis or founder is literally appalls me.Here is the rub.We as professionals did this. We made competing more important than anything else.
Part of being a real horseman and a real rider is understanding the thing you use a convehance(sp?)
in competition.Understanding why horses do the things they do how their bodies operate makes a rider better for that knowledge!

wtywmn4
Nov. 4, 2001, 08:40 PM
No feet, no legs, no horse!! Brilyntrip, if they can't or don't know where the coffin bone is, it does explain why many ride lame horses and don't have a clue.

Horses are not just for riding. Does anyone ever give books on horse anatomy anymore? Or, god forbid, vet books?

ErinB
Nov. 4, 2001, 08:50 PM
Didn't mean to take it so personally. Just in a bad mood for some reason.

~Erin
Be alert. The world needs more lerts.

So Intent
Nov. 4, 2001, 08:51 PM
I personally think medals at my local circuit would be more fun if they asked us horse care questions, for turns on the forehand/haunches, and made the courses tougher. And I'm 17, btw.

General question, when you guys do fuerson (or furacin) sweats, do you use DMSO? That is the way I do them, just wondering about everyone else.

As for using your trainer as an excuse for not knowing horsey parts, So, there's this really cool place that we call a library, and they have these cool book things there, and some of these book things will teach you horsey anatomy. Isn't that great?

Great thing though, did you know that humans have navicular bones as well? I was quite surprised when I learned that, maybe just because they don't give us near the trouble they give our ponies.

brilyntrip
Nov. 4, 2001, 09:09 PM
Its more than that, does anyone ever stop teaching jump jump ?? and have part of the lesson inform rider about where and why certain things work?? Does anyone ever make the student see a horse tying up and explain why it might be happening??Instead of trundling lil Sally off after the lesson does anyone ever insist that said student learn about their tack or their horse??
My daughters both know what it looks like when their ponies colic because they have been there when it has happened .Hannah (lilone) was very very upset to see her precious Pebbles colicing (although mildly) after we had ridden her very lightly one night. We stayed for an hour or so and she seemed better I took kids home let them eat and went back out to check .Hannah was relieved to know her precious was feeling better. I am as I said old fashioned and will not have my own children be one of those who uses an animal for their own pleasure alone.If they cannot enjoy their pony for the relationship that developes through grooming careful attention to all parts of the well being they should not have a horse or pony .
I must say that I am amazed that this topic has brought so much attention so quickly .It was not my intention to ignite afire on this subject but honestly I was so disturbed today that I just couldn't control myself!
For any of you who are feeling picked on .. It is not your fault in toto.It is all of us professionals parents and riders who have helped create this vaccuum.My question is this.. Can this situation be repaired? Does anyone care?Am I just an old fart who learned by doing and learned from real horsemen not just riders?Am I so old that I am that far out of step with today's equine world?
Ok I am sitting down in my wheelchair now!!!

JumpItHighPie
Nov. 4, 2001, 09:20 PM
My old trainer was one of those types that really expects her students to be able to ride. Not sit on a horse and plod around a course, but to REALLY ride.

I went to watch my first show down here in Florida and my mom and I were amazed to see the type of kids some of the trainers sent into the ring.

I was watching these kids school and yes, they looked pretty and yes their horses were pretty and big and expensive. I was trying to explain to my mom that if those riders were to get stuck in some sort of situation in the ring such as a bad spot, spooking of sorts,etc.. I didn't think they would be able to ride their way through it. No sooner had those words left my mouth did 3 riders in a row have a fall off or refusal. I'm talking some really simple refusals here. In fact, the 2 girls actually pulled the horse out from the fence.

It just amazes me what type of "riders" some trainers throw in the ring these days. Riding involves sooo much more than being able to sit and look pretty. I think it is dangerous to send kids in show-rings who don't know how to ride as well as one might assume they can. I do not think you are beating a dead horse here, no way- you are bringing up a valid problem in our sport, which is ignorance.

***Jen*** &*** Pie***
"It is easy to live in the world after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live in your own;but great is the one who in the midst of a crowd keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." R.W.E.
http://hometown.aol.com/pithegr8t/PiePie.html

DarkerHorse
Nov. 4, 2001, 09:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by simplyirrisistable:
I personally think medals at my local circuit would be more fun if they asked us horse care questions, for turns on the forehand/haunches, and made the courses tougher. And I'm 17, btw.

General question, when you guys do fuerson (or furacin) sweats, do you use DMSO? That is the way I do them, just wondering about everyone else.

As for using your trainer as an excuse for not knowing horsey parts, So, there's this really cool place that we call a library, and they have these cool book things there, and some of these book things will teach you horsey anatomy. Isn't that great?

Great thing though, did you know that humans have navicular bones as well? I was quite surprised when I learned that, maybe just because they don't give us near the trouble they give our ponies.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Horses stand on their toes. If they are anything like pigs (just finished dissecting pigs in a lab.. and a cat... uhrg cats are annoying. They have 3 extra deltoideus and trapezius muscles) then their hock is like the heel is to a human. Their elbow is up by their stomach. Kind of cool isnt it? This is, of course, assuming horses legs are named the same way pigs are /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

-----
http://www.catchride.com

Jane
Nov. 4, 2001, 09:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Darkerhorse:
poultice- uh, are you serious? Its the clay stuff that you glob on to reduce swelling. You stick a wet paper bag over it to keep it wet longer.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm, you don't get a 100 on this one /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif There are different types of poultice; the medicated, and the anti-inflammatory such as Uptite, both can be used with bandages for a varity of treatments...reduce swelling and heat, tighten suspensories, etc. There's also the drawing poultice on the foot to treat infections, stone bruises, or abscesses. For this you use Ichthamol or pine tar.

As for the wet paper bag.....it's actually more than keeping the poultice wet longer. Paper contains wood pulp, a derivative of DMSO, and it helps carrying the medicine in the poultice through tissue. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Heidi
Nov. 4, 2001, 10:01 PM
My daughter's been to many riding barns, her parents are horsey, she attended her first intensive sleep-over riding camp this summer and, while I'll concede that she's a better horse person than I am, I think we need to adjust our expectations, somewhat.

Firstly, most parents with children who ride, aren't horsepeople themselves. Furthermore, these very same parents also consider riding but a mere 'hobby' and a most convenient way to free a Saturday afternoon for themselves. In other words, most parents aren't like the assembled parties on this BB.

Secondly, most barns which cater to children are under the pressure (exerted by parents) to produce winners. The pressure is, of course, compounded when a parent has invested many, many tens of thousands of dollars on a pony or horse for their child and equates money spent with increased expectations of a blue ribbon.

Formal instruction, in a classroom-type setting, with diagrams, explanations, tests, doesn't happen in this day and age. And it really is an exceptional child who'll pour through books in a bid to self-educate.

At the same time, I don't disagree with Steve.
Perhaps it's an individual conceit and symptom of a busy life, but my daughter will never show in an equitation or hunter class, she has other academic and athletic pursuits - if a horse of hers is ill, the vet is better equipped to deal with it than she. Will she worry and cry? No doubt. Can she do anything about it and will she be relieved from all the other responsibilities in her life? Probably not.

I think we need to acknowledge that it's not only the adults who lead busy lives -- so do children for the most part.

LuckyAugust
Nov. 4, 2001, 10:07 PM
"Perhaps not. But one should not be using something if one does not know what that something is, or how it will affect one's horse. One should learn what something is, or what it does is BEFORE using it. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif"


I don't believe she said that she used it without knowing about it first.....

so so sick of it all...

Jane
Nov. 4, 2001, 10:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by brilyntrip:
Am I so old that I am that far out of step with today's equine world?
Ok I am sitting down in my wheelchair now!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hope you have a moterized and computerized wheel chair?! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Seriously, I think there are a good number of people out there, both kids and adults, who are interested in horsemanship, and are constantly educating themselves whatever chance they get. I think it has to do more with the individual's "personality" than anything else; some people have a curious nature and want to do things right. Some just don't care, be it horses or everything else in their lives.

SBT
Nov. 4, 2001, 11:02 PM
I work at a horse-related museum, and interviewed for a job as an assistant to the educator. The major job requirement was knowledge of horses. When I sat down for the interview, she asked me, "What would you do if a horse were colicking?"

My reply was something like, "If the horse was painful and trying to roll, I would walk it. If I could hear gut sounds and I had Banamine available, I would use 1 cc per 1,000 lbs IM. If the horse was quiet, I would let him rest and monitor him closely. Depending on the situation, I might take his temperature, check hydration, and check the color of his gums and capillary refill time. If the horse was severely colicking, I would call the vet right away. If it were mild, I would try treating it myself first. But if I didn't see an improvement in about 30 mins, I would call the vet." Basically, I gave her a lecture on colic...not knowing at the time that she was a Cornell grad, majoring in Equine Science. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Anyway, I got the job. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Knowledge is power!

Sara /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Jess
Nov. 4, 2001, 11:04 PM
I had a medal finals thing saterday.. our test was go out of the line, turn left, posting trot to the end, pick up the canter, canter fence 1, posting trot, walk, and pick up the canter before getting back to the corner, jump fence 2 and 3, sitting trot before you get to the corner and back to the line.. My pony didn't understand the trotting then walking thing.. she didn't trot immediatly when I asked then to walk she wanted to jog (she did WP to my knowledge before her jumping career)(she has come along way) and then I biffed fence 2 and was ok to fence 3 but it was more of a hunteresque jump. and then once we got back to the line we couldn't stop coughing.. the pony that was going then started to cough - it was interesting.

however I did get 5th in the medal lol and I had a score of 73.. I was way good in the medal till we were gonna do our curitsy circle trot and walk out of the ring.. I said whoa because we don't have good breaks.. the pony slammed on the breaks dead stop I lost both stirrups and was disabled hahah it was kind of silly, but we got called back.


HOWEVER the judge gave people scores in the 70s that missed lead changes.. in my eyes no one that misses a lead change should get a 70.. like NEVER got it - jumped the fence cross cantering.. The judging got worse and worse as the night went on. (we had all our medal finals) the kid that won the USET couldn't get a counter canter and keep it.. the only person that could got a 4th I believe and only had two bad distances o/f when all the other riders had way more then 2 bad distances...

Go figure..
But the same judge today told a kid in one class that she was the loser of the day when she got 9th in one of the eqs on the flat..

In the model she yelled at us 10million times. we jogged back and fourth I belive 4 times.. the first few times everybody kept stopping so the judge couldn't see my pony.. plus my pony wouldn't stand still when she was being inspected.. finalyl when she did she looked like a duck with both front feet turned sideways..

~Jess~
Catchride.com

Kestrel
Nov. 4, 2001, 11:05 PM
We should quit picking on the kids because they don't know everything that we, from our lofty pinnacles of age, know. We might be embarrased if we could go back and see what we really knew at that age vs. what we think we knew. When was the last time any of us offered to teach a ground lesson or mini horsemanship clinic at our own barn? If we know the stuff, we should be giving the kids the chance to learn it. Its easy to complain about the state of things today, but do we care enough to do something about it? Trainers have businesses to run, and many teach back-to-back lessons whenever kids aren't in school. They don't always have slack time in the teaching schedule to do ground lessons. For those of us who have the luxury of extra time at the barn, lets use it to raise the level of horsemanship. It can even be something as small as helping a small child groom the horse or pony they just rode instead of handing it off to the groom. Use those teachable moments that come our way.

Speaking of grooms, on Thursday one of our grooms asked me to come look at my horse's foot. He didn't like the way the farrier had set his angles and told me why, and what would result. I asked one of the trainers and she agreed with him. Friday we all looked at it with the farrier. He agreed and has started the process of correcting the angle. The moral of the story is that grooms can be horsemen too, and we would benefit by seeking them out and listening to what they have to teach us. Much of what I know about horsemanship has come from grooms, not trainers.

Everyone wants to learn more if they are encouraged on their progress, not scolded for what they have not yet mastered.

Niaouli
Nov. 4, 2001, 11:18 PM
I know quite a few people who believe that Founder is a kind of fish.

/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

"He is richest who is content with the least" - Socrates

levremont
Nov. 5, 2001, 06:17 AM
It also really shocks me that some kids at the shows are walking into the GP rings yet have no clue about proper horse care... I guess I was lucky because when I was a kid ( I grew up in Switzerland) my parents would send me to summer riding camp in England, where they really made sure you knew your theory. But also because in Switzerland you have to pass tests to show, A Brevet to show at 3'and under, for that you have a written test, basic horse care, Emergency medical treatment and a mounted test. Then to show over 3' you have what is called your Licence, you are not allowed to apply before you turn 15. You have extensive theory ( it takes at least a 6 month preparation to do), you must learn the FEI rules, major medical care, comformation, feeding...you must show your horse in hand first, present his passport, the judge askes you some questions about your horse. Then you have to performe a dressage test ( you have been practicing for months...), horse must be on the bit, simple changes, turn on haunches and forhand, extended and collected trot... then a gymnastics phase... then a 3'6 course with liverpool, triple and double combination, normal show course, then the written test which is very hard. Over half the people fail the first time they apply, it no joke. I think it is a good system.

DarkerHorse
Nov. 5, 2001, 07:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by *Bebe*:
I know quite a few people who believe that Founder is a kind of fish.

/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

"He is richest who is content with the least" - Socrates<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


ROFL

-----
http://www.catchride.com

DarkerHorse
Nov. 5, 2001, 07:20 AM
I just read the title.. Wow I did just that yesterday. Not really. My trainer just got 5 school horses because she wants to start a small lesson program and camp program (oh boy, guess who gets to teach camp.. I thought next summer would be the first time since i was 12 that I didn't have to teach camp). 2 of them are nice and can jump, one is an old old old small pony that can jump small X's, and one was like a 30 year old slightly lame horse that can walk trot and canter. I think it was going to be used for trail rides, walk lessons, and grooming contests at camp and stuff.

Anways, I went to go put one of the horses that I rode back outside in the back of the property (it lives outside because its comming back from being hurt) and looked in the school horse padock. One horse was lying down in a weird way. I saw one of the horses kind of 'nibbling' on the lying down horse. Uh oh, I thought. Yep. It was dead. Dead as a door knob.

But, anways, I guess it had a happy last month of its life while it was here. It just sat out in a padock with other horses getting lots of food. I've never seen a horse dead before when they hadn't been put down by a vet.

Oh well.. random isnt it. I just thought of it because of the topic.

-----
http://www.catchride.com

Lord Helpus
Nov. 5, 2001, 07:49 AM
Especially people *like* EribB (not singling you out, just mentioning you since you seem interested in learning more)

May I suggest that part of your COTH browsing time be spent on the Horse Care Forum. Its a great place with the same people you see over here. (DMK spends a lot of time over there.) We all help each other with questions from the simple to the complex and no one feels silly about asking questions or answering them.

Just read one or two threads per night and you will be hooked into the wonderful world of horse care and soon will be asking/answering questions of your own. Next time questions come up on a Medal test about sweats/ blisters/whatever you will be the one with the answers!

Midge
Nov. 5, 2001, 08:05 AM
Many moons ago, I attended the judges clinic right after the question had been reinstated as a test. Kip Rosenthal was the clinician and said she had asked her top four, I believe at the New England Medal finals, what bit they had. Not one of them knew. Now THAT is sad.

'If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?'

Buckybu
Nov. 5, 2001, 08:10 AM
My friend from school was telling me how her leased horse has been lame for about a year. My first question was "Maybe he has navicular..." and she said "What's that?" They haven't even had the vet out to look yet. This has been a year of serious lameness!!

GinnyRice
Nov. 5, 2001, 08:16 AM
tack shops sell books on horse anatomy, grooming, etc. Your town (free) library has innumerable books on any subject you could possible want in reference to a horse. Look it up and then go find it on your horse. I think I read every book in my library that had anything to do with horses. Its amazing what you can learn when you want to.

ccoronios
Nov. 5, 2001, 09:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I believe, many trainers today are producing little machines on horses <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No - little machines couldn't ride HORSES - it's more like little machines on robots. And before everyone gets out the flamethrowers, I KNOW this doesn't apply to everyone, but it applies to too damn many - and those it has applied to in the past are now 'trainers', which is why it's expanding.

Hats off to the judges with the 'stuff' to do something about it! That's the only way that anything will change.

On a sort of funny, related note - years ago, my kids in SC were at a show being judged by Joey Darby. In the medal class, a question was asked, and rider after rider asked for a repeat, and then shook his/her head with totally mystified looks. I met my kids at the gate and asked what in the world he'd asked (these were kids who worked at the barn, pony-clubbed, fox-hunted - had exposure to polo.... they knew their stuff on and off the horse). "What is boy-yum?" Well, I sure didn't know either, so I asked what he said it was. "Something you put on the horseshoes to keep the horse from slipping on ice." Oh, BORIUM!!!! Keep in mind these were this show was in Charleston, SC!!!!!
A judge should ask appropriate questions (this one would have been fine in VA or PA or NY)!

Just My Style
Nov. 5, 2001, 09:22 AM
Every person who rides in any capacity should own a veterinary manual. Even a basic one would have horse anatomy and common ailments. Make sure to get one with lots of pictures and text written for "regular people". You should be able to find one at any tack store or online. It is important to understand how the horse is put together in order to ride it well. If a trainer isn't helping that part of the education process, then it is the riders responsibility to seek out the information on their own.

All I know is that I wouldn't buy a car without a manual and I would read the manual in order to know how it runs (or walks or trots /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ).

Zaboobafoo
Nov. 5, 2001, 09:31 AM
"Riding is fun. It is not our job. Why do we NEED to know these parts of the horse to be a responsible horse owner? Yes, you should know it if you are showing. Yes, it is a good thing to know. Seriously though. . .

If you are a weekend trail rider, why do you need to know the clinical names of various features on horse legs? If the horse is lame call the vet. Simple as that. "

Perhaps this is fine if you rent horses on the weekend or take lessons once a week. And your right, riding IS fun. So is owning a puppy. But you have responsiblities when you decide to own another living animal.

These animals depend on US to take care of them...not the vet. As the owners, we are the ones who see them every day, know them, work with them. We should know if a bump on a leg is a lind puff, a splint, or a swollen tendon. We should know if a runny nose is a cold or normal. If rolling is for fun or because the horse hurts. If a shoe is off or twisted.

Again, it is the OWNER'S job to learn these things. I taught for 5 years, kids and adults of all ages. No matter how many times you tell the kids to pick their horses feet and groom well, I can't tell you how many would show up at the ring with a shoe off.

A trainer is paid to teach riding. They are paid for that hour in the ring. While the really good ones are the ones who take the time to teach everything they can, they pay their dues and long hours. Now, why don't we, as riders and want-to-be horse people, pay ours?

Trooper
Nov. 5, 2001, 09:51 AM
Good idea - any good suggestions on books that you think fit the bill?

playing cards
Nov. 5, 2001, 10:00 AM
I agree that we don't necessarily need to know the technical names for all of the anatomical parts of the horse, but shouldn't everyone who rides seriously or owns horses know about the parts of the body that are involved with diseases or incidents that might take the life of the horse, like colic or founder? Every horse can accidentally get into a bag of grain. To me, knowledge of the coffin bone is essential. I don't feel the trainers should be blamed completely. No one human being can teach someone everything that they need to know about everything. Riders need to take responsibility for themselves and seek out information. Then they must decide what information is essential and important. These are skills that apply to all of life, not just horses.

InWhyCee
Nov. 5, 2001, 10:06 AM
How old were these children? At what level of riding were they expected to be?

Say what you will about crummy local 4-H shows and the often crummy judging that accompanies them, but I knew how to do a turn on the forehand and the haunches, a flying lead change, and a full sidepass before I got to represent my county at the State Fair (waaaaay back in the first Bushie era, FYI). And I still know where the coffin bone is!
______________________
It just amazes me what type of "riders" some trainers throw in the ring these days.
______________________

Ditto! I met a pre-teen on vacation who proudly told me she jumped four-feet at her home barn--despite that fact that she had ALMOST NO LOWER LEG! The BHS-certified trainer suggested lots of cavaletti and cross-rails for both us. The girl did "duck pretty" over the fences, though.

"People... they're so
complicated. I suppose
that's why I prefer
horses."

[This message was edited by InWhyCee on Nov. 05, 2001 at 12:23 PM.]

Chaser
Nov. 5, 2001, 10:11 AM
I wasn't lucky enough to have a pony when I was a youngster, although I had my weekly riding lesson and read everything about horses I could lay my hands on. I thus didn't get involved in the Pony Club and the riding school wasn't very good. If they had offered management lesons I would've devoured them but they didn't.

When I re-started riding after establishing my career, I again started off with lessons, then progressed to a loan and in the end acquired my first horse (after much heart searching: "Am I ready?? It's such a huge responsibility" "There is so much to know"). Anyway, to re-assure myself, I took the BHS Stage 1 Exam, which covers horse care and riding. Although I knew quite a bit of the syllabus, I found working for a qualification focussed my learning, and made me learn about those areas I had missed in my self-learning program. I read the recommended books and took stable management lessons. This has all proved well worth doing.

I covered the Stage 2 syllabus also, although I didn't get around to taking the exam, and did my Riding & Road Safety exam. The latter was great. Although I thought I knew most of it, I still found the training could offer me more and it has made me more aware of hazards when riding out and what to do about them.(Plus I got a nice badge and certificate!).

The point I am trying to make is that having structured exams, for adults as well as children, is a great incentive for learning and continuing learning. The BHS also offer "Horse Owners Certificates" for people who don't want to tackle the more-career orientated Stage exams, and the affiliated Riding Clubs also offer a series of tests. Could encouraging people to tackle tests such as these be a way forward to improving education?

wannabegifted
Nov. 5, 2001, 10:22 AM
Read a book, that is what I do in most of my spare time, read books on horses, NOT fiction books, but pony club manuals, vet books, ecology books etc. Learn about them, not just ride them.

Janet
Nov. 5, 2001, 10:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Good idea - any good suggestions on books that you think fit the bill? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The Pony Club Manual(s) and "A Horse of Your Own" are good places to start.

Chaser
Nov. 5, 2001, 10:37 AM
I agree about reading books in your spare time. However, it is probably those people who don't do this that need an extra incentive to get learning.


The BHS Horse Owner's Certificates are written tests at three levels, Level 1 being the lowest. This is a Sample Level 1 test paper:

http://www.bhs.org.uk/Examinations/level1.htm

Blue Devil
Nov. 5, 2001, 10:48 AM
Some junior riders at a horse show near me were asked, as part of a test for a medal 3'6 class, "How do you know if your horse is colicing?"

The replies (and no, I'm not lying)..:

Rider 1: "I don't know..."
Rider 2: "Cause it won't eat?"
Rider 3: "When it spits out its food" (!!!)
and the ULTIMATE answer, Rider 4: "When daddy gets the bill from the vet."

**~~Emily~~** proud
member of the junior clique!
Emily@catchride.com

Weatherford
Nov. 5, 2001, 11:11 AM
The US Pony Club Manuals - which are for D (lowest) to B/HA/A levels (Highest) are available from the USPC website directly at http://store.yahoo.com/uspcbooks/uspcmanuals.html

http://www.ponyclub.org/

There are also a lot of excellent books there!

I cannot recommend the re-vamped PC manuals enough - they are excellent and thorough. A must in an equine library!

ccoronios
Nov. 5, 2001, 11:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>"You know, the strappy thing that goes around the neck and is attached to the belt and his nose." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh my god!!! That is just TOO inexcusable!

brilyntrip
Nov. 5, 2001, 12:00 PM
I am pleased and surprised thatthis thread has gotten such a big response!
Again asking for a turn on the forehand NOT ASKING for a turn on the HAUNCH ( whichI feel is a much more difficult excersise).There is a difference !
About manyof your responses concerning not expecting so much from kids .These kids are the future BIG EQ kids in our area who many of them hope to enter the real Medal maclay etc. and probably next year. So with that understanding in mind just when should a judge expect these future Eq rider to know something ?? Even the simplst thing??
I have to admit that I wsa very lucky asa 13 yr old ( younger than all of these riders ) I went to a great girls boarding school where there was a requirement of basic knowledge most of which based on that PONY CLUB manual.In order to be able to go hunting one had to pass certain requirements which were basic grooming care and fox hunting knowledge.In addition to riding skills ability on ehad to know what simple hunting terms meant courtesy in hunt field etc in addition to care of horse after hunting cleaning tack etc etc . In order to be a member of the riding club one had to pass even more strident tests.I kne w eveerything I asked when I was a freshman in high school .
BUt again... I loved horses all my life I drove my mother crazy about horses !!I wanted to know all this and was lucky enough to be in an environment were this knowledge was available.I think many kids today cannot find time for this knowledge to be attained because of music lessons social schedules school commitments.My biggest complaint here is at a certain level riders must become horsemen... I sadly do not see much of this happening anymore .

Weatherford
Nov. 5, 2001, 12:05 PM
I have a copy of the questions that can be asked of Pony CLubbers at the PC Knowdown (dismounted knowledge competition). The D's (lowest level, ages 6-13 or so) have questions that most of our top Eq riders couldn't answer.
/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

InWhyCee
Nov. 5, 2001, 12:23 PM
I was having a bad pre-PMS day, but now I'm feeling the warm twinge of (past) accomplishments, even if I'm back in remedial Jumping 101 with the barn rats and still am not sure if HITS really does stand for Horses In Tailored Sportsmen or if my friend in Florida was joking.

"People... they're so
complicated. I suppose
that's why I prefer
horses."

buryinghill1
Nov. 5, 2001, 12:25 PM
The Big Eq finals are tests of riding.
Not tacking up, filling water buckets, body clipping, mane pulling, feet picking, caulk turning or is there any mention of oral or writing exams. The Maclay of course is the Maclay Horsemanship Final, but that's a ludicrous name nowdays.
These kids are trained to flat and jump. They have grooms to do the barn work, truckers to drive, trainers to train and mom and dad to write giant checks.
At the advanced level, they are not expected to have their horseknowledge tested.
The NE finals have taken on that chore. Fine.
You wanna horsemanship final? Make one (like Zone V did!). The kids that prepare their own horses will do quite well.
/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

buryinghill1
Nov. 5, 2001, 12:31 PM
on the other hand...
at a schooling show the kids should KNOW!!!
That's why the beginner shows exist!!

ErinB
Nov. 5, 2001, 01:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Perhaps not. But one should not be using something if one does not know what that something is, or how it will affect one's horse. One should learn what something is, or what it does is BEFORE using it.

And with regards to not being taught anatomy, horse care, and such, there are many GOOD books out there if one was motivated to learn. Of course this requires the motivation to want to learn, followed by actually taking the time to READ, rather than stumbling through life in an ignorant state. But that is just my opinion.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif I was not using Banamine without knowing what it was. I was asking my vet how it was used because I was simply curious. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

~Erin
Be alert. The world needs more lerts.

Sparky22
Nov. 5, 2001, 01:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by YellowDog:
The Big Eq finals are tests of riding.
Not tacking up, filling water buckets, body clipping, mane pulling, feet picking, caulk turning or is there any mention of oral or writing exams. The Maclay of course is the Maclay Horsemanship Final, but that's a ludicrous name nowdays.
These kids are trained to flat and jump. They have grooms to do the barn work, truckers to drive, trainers to train and mom and dad to write giant checks.
At the advanced level, they are not expected to have their horseknowledge tested.
The NE finals have taken on that chore. Fine.
You wanna horsemanship final? Make one (like Zone V did!). The kids that prepare their own horses will do quite well.
/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, the Maclay finals are a test of flatting and jumping...BUT, let's not make the generalization that all these juniors don't to S*** with their horses besides ride. I can name tons of great jr riders who do all that stuff, and yes (sorry to disappoint some of you) some of them are pretty much at the top of the jr world. OF course, there are jrs that don't do much with their horses besides ride, but let's not let that be a stereotype for those that do. I am insulted (as a jr..I know we see a lot of ignorant people, but it makes the rest of us who work our butts off mad), and I know people who are at or towards the top of the jr ranks who do everything. If I were them...I would be EXTREMELY insulted by the generalizations made. So let's play nice....try not to make generalizations...talk about the ignorance or whatnot, but try not insult everyone.

I know it's a message board and everyone is into insulting or pointing things out, but unless it's true, please don't say it.
/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

~~Kate~~

"I love to get home after a long day and go to sleep late. I love to wake up before the sun. I love to spend the day in the sun, with it's rays warming my skin. I love the mist of the cold hose. I love not being able to feel my fingers and toes in the winter. I love to stand on the hill, letting a friend graze in a warm wind. I love the smell of that wonderful place...I live to ride, and I ride to live."

InWhyCee
Nov. 5, 2001, 05:31 PM
let's not make the generalization that all these juniors don't to S*** with their horses besides ride
____________

I don't think anyone said that "ALL" or even "A LOT OF" top juniors are robots who need boosted into the saddle.

IMHO, the jist of the thread is simply that no one who can't ID even the basic signs of colic should be winning a medal for "Horsemanship." Otherwise it's just another EQ class, in which the best RIDER (not horseman) should win.

"People... they're so
complicated. I suppose
that's why I prefer
horses."

Sparky22
Nov. 5, 2001, 05:42 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by InWhyCee:
let's not make the generalization that all these juniors don't to S*** with their horses besides ride
____________

I don't think anyone said that "ALL" or even "A LOT OF" top juniors are robots who need boosted into the saddle.

IMHO, the jist of the thread is simply that no one who can't ID even the basic signs of colic should be winning a medal for "Horsemanship." Otherwise it's just another EQ class, in which the best RIDER (not horseman) should win.
QUOTE]

Actually, I feel that people need to know more...but I was commenting on the post before mine that implied that all the juniors at finals don't do anything with their horses. That's the only one I personally have a problem with..but that is why the BB's are here...so people can post their opinions. I just thought that particular person's wording was a little degrading and presumptuous. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

~~Kate~~

"I love to get home after a long day and go to sleep late. I love to wake up before the sun. I love to spend the day in the sun, with it's rays warming my skin. I love the mist of the cold hose. I love not being able to feel my fingers and toes in the winter. I love to stand on the hill, letting a friend graze in a warm wind. I love the smell of that wonderful place...I live to ride, and I ride to live."

Palomino19
Nov. 5, 2001, 05:57 PM
I agree with Zaboobafoo, why should it be the trainer's responisbility to teach the children (or adults) about horsemanship? You know what, if trainers did devote half of the lesson time to learning things that a responsible horseperson should already know people would whine and moan about only getting half of their lesson.

I taught a riding camp this summer and every day there was a horsemanship lesson. Most of the kids used it as a time to goof-off and eat. They memorized the stuff for one day so they could answer the big kahuna (trainer's) questions then it was gone. However, one girl came up to me yesterday and asked who I was getting ready. "This is Jake" I replied - to which she added "He's a very nice chestnut, I like that he has stockings and that little snip". She hadn't ridden since July but remembered what she learned in the lesson - it was a jaw dropping moment!

The "no time" argument doesn't work for me either. I'm a hs senior w/three of my four classes at the college level, yearbook editor, pres of a volunteer organization, work, ride two horses, and work on my college applications - I consider myself relatively busy. Each night I read five pages out of one of my horse books. Right now I'm in the middle of My Horses My Teachers, because I am riding a horse similar to a few described in the book and wanted to compare methods. Also because I want to give the horse a fair chance and enjoy learning (or re-learning) new things.

Everyone has time or could make time. Get up ten minutes earlier, read during commercials of your favorite tv show, take a book in the car and read in traffic or at long reds, get books on tape, watch a video while doing your homework, or even annoy your vet by following them around incessantly (that's my big one!). It boils down to the fact that some people just don't care, and that makes me so mad /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif This is not an "eq" or "medal" thing, this is a rider thing. You domesticated them, you ride them, it's your responsibility to know them!

Jess

Pony Jumper
Nov. 5, 2001, 06:19 PM
Do people EVER switch horses as parts of medal classes? I know its in the rule book, but I've never seen it done (of course I am young, and the shows in my area are small). I know that there might be liabilty issues, but....To me it is very important to have horse knowledge, but if they judges want to focus more upon riding ablity, then switching horses seems perfect to me! Of course I'm ususlly the one of the hot, or less made horse...
I pretty much learned all the stuff that I know about horses on my own, from books, etc. I just WANTED, and still do, to know all that I could about horses. I think that Pony Club generally gets horsemanship and horse knowledge across better than show barns, but I know quite a few Pony Clubbers who don't learn what they don't have to know to get their ratings. It has to be a personal decision.

On a different note -
I was also at the medal finals that Jess was at... I have a question about the judging:
When one misses a lead change, doesn't he pretty much automatically get a score of like 55? Would a judge do this differently in a "beginner" medal (2'6")? Say the rider had a good basic position, but didn't get the lead change? To me its a weird decision because you see good kids who can really ride out there, and who miss a change, then you also have the kids on the packers who do the auto swaps as the kid perches...The difference between the types is pretty obvious, but the judges have to place the lead change ahead of the no-change, right?
Anyways, the judge did give high scores to trips that didn't deserve them at this show, but they seemed like the judge judged harder as the classes increased in difficulty. As in, a 70 in the childrens pony medal or beginner hunter medal was not equivalent to a 70 in the Jr. medal. In my medal, the pre-USET (yup the very one that Jess said everyone rode crappily in!), they didn't announce the scores but I wish that they had. I thought that my over fence trip was pretty good (on a personal level), and I didn't really feel like I missed distances as was implied....but I did really screw up on the flat phase and I was extremely disapointed...Not in my placing but in myself. I should have been able to do it, and I can do it, but I was not riding well, and my horse was being a pain. Just one example of when I would have REALLY liked it if they had had us switch horses!

wtywmn4
Nov. 5, 2001, 07:00 PM
Palomino 19 I have to retort to your "why should it be the trainers responsibility to teach the children/adults". Because of one teensie weensie word, trainer! What on earth are you paying for? Just to be taught how to ride? If you don't know whether your horse is lame or not, what good is riding going to do for you when your beast can't walk?

And please, am not picking on you.
This is something that many of us feel strongly about.

What good is knowing how to jump when the rider hasn't achieved the knowledge to know what goes into jumping? Part of riding is knowing function. If your horse isn't functioning, well you have no form, thus no jump.

Palomino19
Nov. 5, 2001, 07:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wtywmn4:
Because of one teensie weensie word, _trainer_! What on earth are you paying for? Just to be taught how to ride? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes it would be wonderful if all trainers made students learn proper care of horses before they got to ride. However, we live in a time where "short" and "quick" is equated with "better" so that trainer that skips the intro and goes straight to four foot fences is seen as the superior person to learn from. That and the fact that many people I know of would complain if their lesson consisted of madatory horsemaship lessons. I've been told by a parent on more than one occasion "Aren't they missing an awful lot of their lesson by having to tack up their own horses?" My reply - they can come earlier and start riding at the scheduled time, and this IS part of their lesson!

I do take my lessons to learn how to ride! If I have a horse-care question I have the incentive to look it up or ask my trainer when she is not busy. Most people are more than happy to share their knowledge when approached the correct way!

I'm mainly saying not to blame the trainers for people's lack of initiative. They have to make a living and until people genuinely want to learn the horsemanship they won't be able (financially speaking) to put it in as mandatory. Also, let me add that I think it's the responsibility of the rider to get informed not just let someone hold their hand and steer them to knowledge - go out and find it yourself if you are truly motivated! "My trainer won't teach it/didn't teach it" just isn't good enough for me I guess.

Don't worry I don't feel picked on, I'm glad I finally found a thread I (and others) feel strongly about /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Jess

wtywmn4
Nov. 5, 2001, 09:00 PM
We do understand the trainers point of view, and yes they do have to make a living. But we're seeing people leave this industry that shouldn't. Both in the training ranks as well as owners. And that takes away from all of us. All the way down the ladder.

No sport is easy, especially when it encompasses an animal. If we want better horsemen, we have to teach them. If we don't take the time, who will?


Which brings me to the level type of showing. No you can't jump in with hundreds of thousands and expect to win. You have to qualify in order to compete. Hmmm, if we had to do that, wonder what other changes might occur /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Finzean
Nov. 5, 2001, 09:05 PM
When I was in grade school there was a barn across the street from my school. The lady that owned it showed Appaloosas at the big breed shows. She found me petting one of her horses over the fence one day and realized right away that I was a horse crazy child. She told me that she didn't have horses for me to ride but that if I wanted to learn about horses, their care, tack, etc. I was welcome to come once a week for a "lesson".

So I showed up once a week and each session we went over the parts of the horse, the tack, or whatever. She even gave me handouts to study for the next week and would often quiz me. I can't remember any of my other trainers doing this with me. But then again I too was a barn rat and a voracious reader. When I read about something, I would ask questions of the farrier, trainer, vet, etc.

A horse is a living breathing being. Riders should be more educated about the beastie that is hauling their butt around the ring. BTW, the Podhjasky (sp?) book is a great one. As for basic equine anatomy..the choices are endless.

Good topic, brilyntrip!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

_______________________

There is no crying in baseball!!!

JumpItHighPie
Nov. 5, 2001, 09:15 PM
"However, we live in a time where "short" and "quick" is equated with "better" so that trainer that skips the intro and goes straight to four foot fences is seen as the superior person to learn from."

This is precisely what is wrong with our industry, thank you for pointing it out!

Will this sort of "training" ever fade out?

And what is worse is that some of these riders may gone on with their riding careers believing that this is the proper and correct way to train! Hopefully with the type of equine colleges that are offered, this will help clear up the minds of these disillusioned people. But if not...well, that is just a scary thought.

*Jenno*
"It is easy to live in the world after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live in your own;but great is the one who in the midst of a crowd keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." R.W.E.
http://hometown.aol.com/pithegr8t/PiePie.html

SuperPony
Nov. 5, 2001, 09:32 PM
wow. i had no idea that all the kids i show with/against weren't like me- I went to pony camp when 6,7,8,and 9; had to memorize all parts of horse, saddle (english and western), and bridle; and read all the horse books given to learn about breeds, colors, etc. i though all horse people had been like that when kids!!! and i'm only 15, so don't say i'm an old person thinking about "the good ol days."

and, what's even worse than me thinking all show kids had at least basic knowledge of their horses, i'm think of trying EVENTING when i'm too old to show my large in the hunter stuff!!!!

-Caroline
"If I go crazy then will you still call me SUPERPONY!"

Weatherford
Nov. 5, 2001, 09:35 PM
Pony Jumper - we USED to ALWAYS have to switch horses in Eq classes (and NOT saddles /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif ) I rode in my first "switch horse" eq class at a very young age back in the dark ages (before Pres Kennedy was assassinated)... I was about 6 and the class was Walk - Trot. I even have a picture of me on the OTHER GIRl'S HORSE /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Imagine asking that today ROTFLOL!

On the judging question (another topic for its own thread!), I was just sitting with an R judge (who has judged THE Finals) who was talking about just that. She would rather see a rider who fixes a problem (a distance, a chance, whatever) than see a rider who sits there looking pretty while THE HORSE fixes the problem. And that tends to create a dilemma for her; and people, including other judges, sometimes disagree with her.

Her rhetorical question yesterday was, "why should a good rider who is making good decisions on an older horse whith sore hocks who is late with the changes or swaps in front of the fence be penalized if she asks correctly for the change, rides THROUGH the roughness, and keeps the horse straight at the fences? (meaning the horse is swapping because he is sore, not because she is making a move or leaning or something)?"

But this is for the never ending Judging thread - or do we need a new one?

brilyntrip
Nov. 5, 2001, 10:03 PM
Th e judge you sat with isn't alone .. I have that dilema often .Ok here is how it seems to go x-cantering creature low score no matter who is riding it.. BUt you really can tell if a rider has feel where the posed rider will not have that natural flow with the horse .Sorry for the moronic post what canI say? Anyway my point is this. Posed ususally looks stiff and gets in the way of horse . Riders with feel follow their horses through the air ...
Anyway there really should eb soemthing done about this I am working onit.

[This message was edited by brilyntrip on Nov. 06, 2001 at 07:44 AM.]

BarbB
Nov. 6, 2001, 08:04 AM
I think that it is interesting that people on this thread are finding reasons to excuse "riders" who don't want to learn about their HORSE - a living creature dependent on them for care.
My personal opinion is that motor-cross is a fun, exciting sport where it is probably ok to just turn the steed over to a mechanic.

BarbB


charter member BEQS Clique & Invisible Poster Clique

www.herbal-nutrition.net/members/Barbara (http://www.herbal-nutrition.net/members/Barbara)

JumpItHighPie
Nov. 6, 2001, 08:08 AM
Ditto Barb!

There are no exuses for not knowing basic or even somewhat advanced horse knowledge.

*Jenno*
"It is easy to live in the world after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live in your own;but great is the one who in the midst of a crowd keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." R.W.E.
http://hometown.aol.com/pithegr8t/PiePie.html

Bumpkin
Nov. 6, 2001, 08:29 AM
I apologize if someone else has mentioned this and I didn't read it on this, "growing", thread.

Has anyone suggested that the kids atleast read that?

I use to pick them up used all the time and hand them out to friends whose children were getting a horse, or starting lessons.

You don't have to be in PC to read that hardbound little blue book.
I know there is a larger more "American" softbound one out also, but I still have a feeling for the olde British one.

If you know of someone who is young and you think they need to learn some of this, it would be an excellent Christmas gift.

Another book that I read on one boring Friday night, babysitting, back in my mid teens, was a book I think called "The Veterniarian Handbook".
It was a slim hardbound book that was easy to read and really helped me know many things I would never have learned hanging out at the barn. A Horse Of Your Own, is another of my olde time favourites.

/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif JMHO


Oh good!!!
I see that several, including Weatherford, have suggested the above book. Just starting buying the used ones when you find them and passing them out. I use to keep one in Mallory's tack trunk.
/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Although you can lead a horse to water....
Mallory knows more than most kids, thank heavens.
But the other day I was helping her get a horse ready for her lesson and I told her to grab the snaffle bit for the bridle we were putting together. She asked me what a snaffle was!! Later I realized that she has only seen different variations of the snaffle so to her all bits are snaffles, or is it all snaffles are bits? Basically she just didn't understand and thought I was naming some new fangled bit.
We now name bits at the tack shop or on our drive to the barn. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[This message was edited by Bumpkin on Nov. 06, 2001 at 10:42 AM.]

wtywmn4
Nov. 6, 2001, 08:38 AM
Ditto BarbB could not agree more. No excuses.

Bumpkin, you can never tell people too much. Pony Club manual can be purchased on line, or thru a book store to.

What you and every other judge thinks about brilyntrip, is watching someone who is very capable missing or having a late change. And your post isn't moronic either. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif This dilemma happens at every show. We know this. Poised, is not always capable!

serengeti36
Nov. 6, 2001, 09:57 PM
Okay, horrifically embarassing but I'm going to say this anyway: I have ridden for thirteen years. No one pointed out until last year that I had my pinky on teh wrong side of the reins. That's right, I had the pinky on the inside which is why i could never figure out how people made those minute adjustments by closing their fingers as that was a drastic movement when I did it. Oh, I need to go hide in shame.

marion

"Gypsy gold does not chink and glitter. It gleams in the sun and neighs in the dark."
~ Galloway Gypsy Proverb

brilyntrip
Nov. 7, 2001, 08:32 AM
What is a bradoon ??? Tell me what it is what it is used for and describe what it looks like???

Lisamarie8
Nov. 7, 2001, 08:40 AM
You Rock /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I couldn't have said it better myself.

I have a tendancy to get riled up and frustrated and while that's EXACTLY what I was thinking, it would have come out like a bunch of blabby-hooey /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

--Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

gwen
Nov. 7, 2001, 08:41 AM
Isn't a bradoon, the smaller loose ring bit that goes with the double bridle for dressage horses???

Barb /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

buryinghill1
Nov. 7, 2001, 08:41 AM
Too easy
The "aft" bit in a double (or full) bridle.
Curb, and bradoon.

Now, what's the name of the STRAP the holds the bradoon? /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Sleepy
Nov. 7, 2001, 08:43 AM
As in bit and bradoon - one of the bits in a double bridle. Now lemme think... the bit would be the curb so the bradoon must be the snaffle, a skinny little snaffle.

Bumpkin
Nov. 7, 2001, 08:45 AM
Just kidding I won't answer the question, /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I enjoyed my daughters lesson last night, because her trainer took the time to help her correct the mistake my daughter made putting on the wrong bridle, and having it way to big. Then giving her a lesson on how to lunge a high horse.

Even though it ate into riding time, these are things I personally cannot tell a "teen" daughter.
And the time spent was well worth it.
Thank you Denise.

/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Chaser
Nov. 7, 2001, 09:03 AM
A bradoon is also sometimes called a bridoon (do I get an extra mark for that?)

Sandy M
Nov. 7, 2001, 09:15 AM
The little strap is the bradoon "hanger." Or were you referring to the lip strap that secures the curb chain to the curb, so you won't lose it if it comes undone? That isn't connected to the bradoon, but it's "in the vicinity." *G* I used to show my old Appy hunter in a Weymouth curb/loose ring snaffle double bridle.

I guess part of the problem may simply be $$$$. "Mommy, I want to learn to ride/have a horse." And voila! The kid has a horse and gets lessons, with a groom to saddle the horse before she rides and to take it away and care for it after.

I was a horse crazy kid. I bicycled out to the polo field in Golden Gate Park to "walk hots" during and after polo games, just to be WITH HORSES. I read every horse book in the library and knew horse anatomy, parts of tack, etc. at a very early age. I WANTED to know. I got an after school job and nagged my father into taking me to Marin County so I could take hunt seat lessons. I didn't have my own horse until I was in my 20s and could support it myself.

Silly me! I just assumed that any kid who loved horses and wanted to ride would be like me, devouring every horse book and every bit of information I could access. Guess that's not the case these days.

I don't do H/J any more (last time was in about '93 or '94), and am more a dressage rider, but I do do obstacle trail trials on my dresasge horse, and the very first one I participated in, the first obstacle was to mount/display the required equipment (halter/lead/hoofpick), and then answer the question, "Where would one locate the horse's digital pulse, and what would the resting rate be?" Wow! I got it right, but I was both surprised and impressed that that was part of the competition.

hobson
Nov. 7, 2001, 09:28 AM
I think it's a question of intellectual curiosity: some people have it, some people don't. I suspect one might find that those of use posting here who have made an effort to learn as much as possible about horses probably also apply this kind of curiosity to other aspects of life.

GirlLikeThat
Nov. 7, 2001, 01:29 PM
I have four times been asked a question while doing a medal test.

1. How many beats in a canter?
2. Where is the poll on your horse and no pointing!
3. What is your favorite color? (serious)
4. What do you think were the best and worst parts of your course?

The #4 I really liked. It made us think about what we were doing and I dont know how much of an effect it had on our placings, but its something I was used to doing with my trainer while I noticed some who obviously just were told what was wrong kinda struggle.

~Erin

ccoronios
Nov. 7, 2001, 01:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>When I was in grade school there was a barn across the street from my school. The lady that owned it showed Appaloosas at the big breed shows. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And how's motherhood treating you? Getting enough sleep? Good to see you back here - we've missed you!

Zaboobafoo
Nov. 7, 2001, 04:04 PM
I think I have the same problem as a lot of you...I don't understand why all kids who ride aren't as horse crazy as I was.

I never read a book that wasn't about horses until I was in high school and I HAD to. And those Saddle Club books and the likes, they actually taught me stuff!! And I would often ask or search my "real" books to see if what they said and did was correct.

I got my hands on every book and dictionary I could and just absorbed. I sat at the ring for hours and listened to what trainer's told their students. I watched GPs on TV, watched other people's lesson, rode any other horse I could, never wanted to leave the barn.

I see the kids at my barn ride and leave. Never think about their horse besides those 2 hours max at the barn, or when telling their friends or family. Horses were my LIFE.

I guess everyone is different and that is their right. But when I tried to teach, I couldn't accept that. So now I work in retail. LOL

Palomino19
Nov. 7, 2001, 04:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zaboobafoo:
I think I have the same problem as a lot of you...I don't understand why all kids who ride aren't as horse crazy as I was.

Horses were my LIFE.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just got home from the barn! I took a lesson on my horse, rode a sale horse, watched a jumping lesson, and watched a beginner lesson. It takes every ounce of my willpower to not stay and watch the 7:00 dressage lesson /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I don't understand the girls who come, ride for ten minutes, and leave (or stay long enough to kiss trainer's @ss then leave).

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I guess everyone is different and that is their right. But when I tried to teach, I couldn't accept that. So now I work in retail. LOL<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Teaching this summer and helping the kids with their lessons I have had the same problem. It frustrates me when they just don't care. Horses get put away hot by people who know better, or are old enough to. Tack is left everywhere and never cleaned. Hooves aren't picked out and girths are put on backwards - if they tack up their own ponies even! Then one person listens, or is genuinely interested and I feel better and ready to go again /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Jess

brilyntrip
Nov. 7, 2001, 05:25 PM
Palomino you have just made my day!!!I would teach you for free!!! Everything you said in you last post makes me believe that there is hope!
See I thought that the kid that LIVED at the barn was a dead subject !!

Sparky22
Nov. 7, 2001, 05:38 PM
You are so lucky!! I am stuck at school and very far from the horses!! ::sigh::

~~Kate~~

"I love to get home after a long day and go to sleep late. I love to wake up before the sun. I love to spend the day in the sun, with it's rays warming my skin. I love the mist of the cold hose. I love not being able to feel my fingers and toes in the winter. I love to stand on the hill, letting a friend graze in a warm wind. I love the smell of that wonderful place...I live to ride, and I ride to live."

Kestrel
Nov. 8, 2001, 12:01 AM
Now I'm in for it! Since it was looking like time to put my money where my mouth is, I will be developing a "curriculum" for Horsemanship classes at the barn where I ride. Having a curious 6 year old follow me around asking questions as I put my horse away inspired me. It will probably be aimed at the 12 and under crowd, but hopefully the 13+ will show up too. We'll do lots of hands on stuff, pictures to trace/color for the little ones, quizes, certificates, and of course food. It will have to be fun to keep them coming. The Juniors who know the stuff will help.

I've picked up the Pony Club manuals. Any other titles I should get?

brilyntrip
Nov. 8, 2001, 03:07 AM
You area a goddess!!I thank you and all others like me thank you too!

Bumpkin
Nov. 8, 2001, 09:38 AM
May I send my daughter over? haha

I wish you much luck and let me know if there is anything I may do to help you out, although I know you have tons of help where you are /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

C-Urchn
Nov. 8, 2001, 10:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ErinElliston:
...1. How many beats in a canter?
2. Where is the poll on your horse and no pointing!
3. What is your favorite color? (serious)
4. What do you think were the best and worst parts of your course?...
~Erin<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. Depends on how political are the judges /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
2. The pole is back in the trailer (hidden)
3. Blue. Duh!
4. Worst - my opening circle. Best - continuing breathing.

HSM
Nov. 8, 2001, 12:13 PM
brilyntrip:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>See I thought that the kid that LIVED at the barn was a dead subject !! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope, not in the least - you should meet my daughter! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I am waiting for the day she can drive herself to save me all the hours in the car...although then I will probably NEVER see her!

Sandy M
Nov. 8, 2001, 12:34 PM
I grew up in the Haight-Ashbury, and was a teenager in the 60s! As for memories, yeah, they are a little fuzzzy......... but I remember the horses....

Tackpud
Nov. 8, 2001, 01:26 PM
I'm a little late reading the thread, but now that I have, I just have to post my observations after years of teaching.

Currently I teach in a boarding school and have taught in college programs in the past. I utilize Littauer's system of Forward Riding and attempt to teach my students horse care as well as riding. (Notice I said attempt! Sometimes they just don't want to learn.) We have oral tests during lessons on the parts of the horse and tack and theory, and written tests that cover some horse care topics as well as riding theory questions.

Some students jump in wholeheartedly and learn everything they can - some ignore everything I say and just want to get on, ride, get off and leave the barn. Some students almost attack the vet with questions when he is here - some don't even know what his truck looks like.

The students who jump in and try to learn everything think the others are "Princesses." The students who don't want to learn anything think the other girls are boring and obnoxious. It's a no win situation for me in the middle. I continue to try and teach all of them, but some will never accept that horses are live animals that they are responsible for and will always have someone else take care of them. Maybe their horses will be better off because of that!

Remember that everyone rides for different reasons and we, as teachers, can only teach them as much as they want to learn. As a teacher I can only say, I love the students who are open to learning everything possible! Send them my way!

Gold Dust
Nov. 8, 2001, 03:02 PM
Isn't the answer for the name of the piece of leather called 'the strappy thing' !!!!

sorry guys, couldn't resist! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

buryinghill1
Nov. 8, 2001, 03:07 PM
Bradoon Strap /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

wtywmn4
Nov. 8, 2001, 05:44 PM
Don't we mean Bridoon? Which is not a strappy thing at all, but a small, loose ring snafflie type bit used with a full bridle or driving bridle as an over check.

Palomino19
Nov. 8, 2001, 08:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by brilyntrip:

See I thought that the kid that LIVED at the barn was a dead subject !!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not dead yet /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif (although there were a few times in the heat this summer...) I have felt a bit like a dying breed at times though. "You're riding again? Didn't you just ride yesterday Jess?" /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif I think I need to "grow up" and be an exercise rider!

sparky I'm so sorry! I don't know what I'm going to do next year when I don't have my horse with me, hopefully whatever trainer I find will be as sympathetic to my "addiction" as my current one is. If you're ever in PA let me know and you'd be more than welcome to come out and ride!

Jess

Finzean
Nov. 8, 2001, 09:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ccoronios:
Quote: "When I was in grade school there was a barn across the street from my school. The lady that owned it showed Appaloosas at the big breed shows. "

And how's motherhood treating you? Getting enough sleep? Good to see you back here - we've missed you!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Bare Family on Greensboro, NC. They are related to a man named Steve ...er, L-something, who does alot of AQHA stuff. They were very kind to me.

Aahhh, Motherhood. You wait until you think you know enough to be responsible enough to rear a child and that's when you figure out that having the child is just the beginning of your education!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I'm able to operate at 100% on 4-5 hours of sleep (but getting much more) and I NEVER know what's happening on the BB anymore as I can only visit late at night when the Sophinator is tucked into bed (except for now she's pulling the power cord out of the laptop...gotta go...)

BTW, :aww, shucks: it's nice to be missed!

_______________________

There is no crying in baseball!!!

Sparky22
Nov. 8, 2001, 11:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Palomino19:
Quote:


sparky I'm so sorry! I don't know what I'm going to do next year when I don't have my horse with me, hopefully whatever trainer I find will be as sympathetic to my "addiction" as my current one is. If you're ever in PA let me know and you'd be more than welcome to come out and ride!

Jess<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Awww!! Thanks buddy! All I know, is that I can not WAIT to get home for Tgiving break! I am only able to go to the barn a few days a week here at school...and I am used to going to the barn EVERY DAY! I'm going nuts, but COTH gives me some relief from my newly aquired non-horsey lifestyle. Anyways, how many people do you know who go to the barn 3 out of 7 days a week and still think they are deprived?? lol...just me.

~~Kate~~

"I love to get home after a long day and go to sleep late. I love to wake up before the sun. I love to spend the day in the sun, with it's rays warming my skin. I love the mist of the cold hose. I love not being able to feel my fingers and toes in the winter. I love to stand on the hill, letting a friend graze in a warm wind. I love the smell of that wonderful place...I live to ride, and I ride to live."

Sparky22
Nov. 8, 2001, 11:06 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Palomino19:
Quote: "Originally posted by brilyntrip:

See I thought that the kid that LIVED at the barn was a dead subject !!"

Not dead yet /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif (although there were a few times in the heat this summer...) I have felt a bit like a dying breed at times though. "You're riding _again_? Didn't you just ride yesterday Jess?" /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif I think I need to "grow up" and be an exercise rider!

Well...I keep having summer flashbacks of those 12 hour days at the barn! There was a new boarder at the barn, and no matter what time she came, I was ALWAYS there. Finally, she said..."I just have to ask. Is this where you live, or do you have a home?" I said, "well, this is where I live, and yeah, I have a home, but I just go there to sleep!"

ahhhhhh....summer!!

~~Kate~~

"I love to get home after a long day and go to sleep late. I love to wake up before the sun. I love to spend the day in the sun, with it's rays warming my skin. I love the mist of the cold hose. I love not being able to feel my fingers and toes in the winter. I love to stand on the hill, letting a friend graze in a warm wind. I love the smell of that wonderful place...I live to ride, and I ride to live."

Weatherford
Nov. 11, 2001, 07:45 PM
shallnevertell - your post was rude and uncalled for and after discussion with the other moderators, we decided to delete it. Had you been a regular poster or had an address to which we could email you, we would have requested that you do it yourself.

Brilyntrip's email address is available if you wish to discuss your problem with her offline.

brilyntrip
Nov. 11, 2001, 08:10 PM
Thank you for pulling what ever that was!!! I guess it was from someone who um should I say disagrees with every single poster here and for 7 pages yet!!I'm sure they won't be emailing me with their REAL IDENTITY!!!Thank you

Erin
Nov. 11, 2001, 09:45 PM
Reposting... while the post was rather strongly worded, it's not in violation of any rules and will be allowed to stay. Sorry brilyntrip. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by shallnevertell:

excuse me brilyntrip, but i believe that your behavior on this message board
is appalling! Boy I would never!!!! HOW DARE YOU GO ONLINE OF ALL PLACES AND
MAKE FUN OF THE CHLDREN YOU JUDGED THAT DAY! SO WHAT IF THEY DONT KNOW ONE
QUESTION, OR EVEN TWO? THIS IS UNBELIEVABLY IMMATURE AND I AM BESIDE MYSELF
THAT THE AHSA IS LETTING THIS GO ON. DO YOU KNOW THAT AN ACTION LIKE THIS
CAN GET YOUR LISCENCE SUSPENDED OR EXPELLED? i hope you learn some day. and
might i just add a little quote
"misery loves company"
signed
anonymous <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Take the post with however many grains of salt necessary, considering it's a brand-new poster who signs him/herself "Anonymous"...

Pat
Nov. 12, 2001, 05:47 AM
Then there are the few trainers who don't teach this stuff because they don't know it either!

I worked for a guy, we'll call him Don. We had a lame horse that needed films taken of his foot and lower leg. Now it's been awhile, so I really don't remember what was actually wrong, but when the vet explained to "Don" on the phone about what she felt was going on in the "P1, P2 and P3" bones, he had the most incredible blank stare. He hangs up and tells the Farrier what she said, and asked what she meant by P1,2 and 3. "You know, Don, the phalanx bones?" Rico said. More blank stares. "THE LONG AND SHORT PASTERN BONES AND THE COFFIN BONE!" I said. He felt like a real dope, too. I was embarassed for him, we went to the same college, the difference being I went to class and graduated.

Some people want to learn, some just want to sound good from the side of the ring.

Hey, and another thing! While ErinB should know what the coffin bone is, knowing the ins and outs of Banamine is important too. Most ammies I have met don't know one drug from another. Like, ketoprofen and ketamine are NOT the same thing. (yikes) They shrivel at the thought of giving an injection, and are maybe a little too happy to be spoon fed second hand information. You know, the watered down translation from the trainer about what the vet did/said. Atleast she asked!

FYI:
A good book I used as a text in college is Doug Butler's Farrier Science book. Sorry, I don't remember the actual title, and it's still packed away. It's mostly about shoeing, but the sections about lower leg anatomy and mechanics are fabulous, with great diagrams.

PONYPULR
Nov. 12, 2001, 05:55 AM
Calm down.

I don't believe Brilyntrip was "making fun" of anyone. She was merely pointing out how she is unhappy with the way things are going in the horse show industry today. The children she judged were just EXAMPLES of the lack of well-rounded, potential horsemen out there.

And as far as you being appalled at her behavior, yours could be viewed as no better. And signing as "Anonymous" does not help your case.

"It's not whether you win or lose, it's whether I win or lose."

brilyntrip
Nov. 12, 2001, 06:41 AM
even read the entire thread .I think he /she was told about it.I havE reread the entire thread AGAIN! I have only 5 posts two of which are critical of riders IN GENERAL at all.I am very pleased to see that so many people have responded positively on this subject.
I believe that only a very young possibly impressionable person could make such uneducated comments which show that they have never read the entire thread to begin with .The fact that he/she chooses to post anonymously just proves to me that he/she is really very very small minded.
My last comment is to SHALL NEVER TELL: This bulletin board is for people who are really interested in the subjects listed .No where have I or any one else mentioned names of TRAINERS ,RIDERS,or even SHOW IN GENERAL. Your comments are a reflection of your opinion which you are entitled to .What you are not entitled to do is threaten me in any way.I am not in violation of any USAE or cothbb rules,if you had bothered to read the ENTIRE 7 pages ofthis thread you would know this.You did not though too much work?? Again I have not mocked anyone nor have I used names ,your threats are baseless.Since you choose to post ANONYMOUSLY I can only assume that you are a follower who lets others tell you what to do and what to think!Sad that you will be the ultimate loser as you go through life letting others form your opinions for you.

Janet
Nov. 12, 2001, 07:59 AM
Brilyntrip's comments here were no more personal tha GM's comment in the COTH about the riders in the pony finals.

Gold Dust
Nov. 12, 2001, 08:07 AM
Let's all take a deep breath here. I do not believe brilyntrip made 'fun of anyone' here. She just tried to point out with no names of horse show, riders or trainers what product is being put out today in SOME cases. As a trainer myself who has no one in the big eq. or mini division it just made me realise how important it is to prepare my riders for these divisions. We all learn everyday and from the trainers point of view, educating myself in my own craft is essential. As a junior rider reading this thread, I believe it should give some a wake up call. The day in your life you stop striving to be better and think you have it all down, is a sad day for you![this goes for both professional and Amateur] Shallnevertell,I hope you can ease up a bit here and see how productive this thread really is and not a personal attack on anyone.

wtywmn4
Nov. 12, 2001, 08:24 AM
Knowing brilytrip, I have to say this person would never make fun of people while judging!!! That in itself is inflamitory, or is that what you wanted?

They are as appalled, as many of us are, at the lack of education that is being given to our young riders. It is scarey. Accidents happen, but with more education, there is a less likelihood of it occuring and better horsemanship evolves. Brilyntrip has been in the business a very long time. This is not a person who takes any of this lightly. Lord knows what shallnevertell thought they read. Having gone thru all of these pages, there just isn't any fun being made. Posts with thought and good points are being made on this thread.

brilyntrip
Nov. 12, 2001, 08:30 AM
I am at aloss maybe Shall Never Tell just can't read>... Anyway I wanted totell you TWYNN that yes you are correct BRIDOON is the correct spelling !You see everyone learns something enw everyday!!1

Natty Dread
Nov. 12, 2001, 08:33 AM
In my humble opinion...


I just think that times have changed. Unfortunately horse showing has become more of a lifestyle. I really can't explain it, but it is the same in polo. Whenever you put Professionals together with novices in a field it becomes more about the money and the bottom line. Winning. Kids don't spend time as they should being taught the basics. And yes that is what kids should be taught. Points of a horse, parts of tack, basic usage, things like this. That is what Pony Club and 4-H is all about. But who in the show world would take the time to be a part of these really great clubs. I would venture to guess that most parents don't even know that they exist. But to expect the average horse owner who boards at a barn to know more than the basics is a little unreasonable. I would guess that as professionals in other fields they put the care of their horses in what they feel are professional horsemen's hands. It has taken me 34 years and alot of hands on experience for me to learn just what I need to do in most situations. I was a "professional groom for polo" for 12 years. I worked for some of the top teams around the world. I worked with people from all over the world. I ask alot of questions, both from grooms and vets alike. I now know when something is more then I can handle. But that is after alot of time and being around alot of horses and alot of different situations. To ask for children or average horse owners to know more is asking too much. Not to mention I would not want inexperienced people dealing with possibly serious health problems. What my question would be is regarding the new age of professionals. The just turned pro juniors who will more than likely become trainers themselves. What do they know? Would you train with them just because they won everything or because they are true horsemen? When I took a youngster to a hunter barn I left explicit instructions that I would be responsible for any health problems. I would medicate, wrap, be there for the shoer, even worm, call the vet. But the horses are my life, I have that time available to me. Most I fear do not. Do I think that kids should know the difference between a "pole" on the ground and a "poll" on the head- you betcha. But leave all the rest to people who have the time and the want to really educate themselves.

Chicago
Nov. 12, 2001, 01:19 PM
I literally LIVE at the barn during the summer, in the dorms. Since I do summer camp and ride project horses, it's pretty convenient.

My trainer recently handed us each a diagram of the skeleton of the horse, and told us to have the front half memorized by the next lesson! I was so excited! We're eventually going to get to muscles and the nervous system as well.

Horse obsession is alive and well here!

L Scott
Nov. 12, 2001, 02:19 PM
http://www.horseweb.de/vs_uk/aus/anatomy/inhalt.htm

InWhyCee
Nov. 12, 2001, 02:28 PM
I agree, leave the definitions of "furacin sweat" and "spider bandage" to the experts. If you are so lucky to have an iron horse, you may never come across either... but aspiring Medalists SHOULD know enough to carry on a lucid conversation with their trainer ("Hands closer to his poll? Like, the ground pole?"), veterinarian ("Well, he's sweatier than usual and he's looking at his stomach a lot"), farrier ("My mare doesn't need studs--yet! Tee-hee!"), tack-shop employee ("Standing or running? But we don't have to run"), and groom ("Could you remove that hard thingy, you know, on his leg, before my next class?")

PS: "What bit do you use and why?" I still find this hard to believe... ask me 14 years later, I still know. Maybe it's OCD...

PPS: I know lots of kids live at Claremont or Riverdale, or at least they try to. They will ALWAYS tell you (politely) if your doing something wrong!

"People... they're so
complicated. I suppose
that's why I prefer
horses."

[This message was edited by InWhyCee on Nov. 12, 2001 at 07:44 PM.]

[This message was edited by InWhyCee on Nov. 13, 2001 at 01:22 PM.]

Evelyne
Nov. 12, 2001, 07:15 PM
The coffin bone is one of the bones of the hoof. creating permanent damage.

The gallop is a 4 beat gait. Walk is 4, trot is 2, canter is 3.

And I'm not even a pony-clubber /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I know that there are a lot of "little machines" out there, but please don't generalize too much. At sixteen, I'm pretty tired of hearing about how my generation lacks horsemanship, common sense, motivation, ambition, sanity, etc... There are some of us out there who really DO care. It is sad that some individuals are riders instead of horsepeople, they don't know what they're missing!

Everyone can make a difference. I try to help anyone (especially the pony kids) who wants to learn or who doesn't understand/know something. In a way I feel like it's my duty to pass on some of my own passion for horse and they knowledge that I'm so busily accumulating. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

P.S. I love the idea of horsemanship questions in eq. I've never had the chance to see this test used up here though /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif We should have a BB horsemanship quiz /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif !

"You're only young once, but you can remain immature indefinitely."

brilyntrip
Nov. 12, 2001, 08:49 PM
there need to be more like you out there !!!!!

hifi
Nov. 13, 2001, 09:52 PM
I am saddened by how little the youth of today know about horses. Not all, but quite a few juniors who will be pros in the next year. One group of riders were asked what to do if your horse stiffened up and couldn't/wouldn't walk, all signs of tying up. they didn't know what to do, walk them, beat them to walk. They were asked what they would tell the vet. They didn't know. They said the groom should take care of it.
Another demonstration was to take a pelham bridle apart and have hem put it back together, most couldn't. How sad for horsekind!

If you can't beat 'em, try harder. And God Bless America my home sweet home!

hifi
Nov. 13, 2001, 09:54 PM
was not making fun of anyone. I don't know her but I like her!!!!!!!!

If you can't beat 'em, try harder. And God Bless America my home sweet home!

brilyntrip
Nov. 14, 2001, 07:44 AM
YOU ARE SOOO SWEET !! THANK YOU I don't know you either but I like what you say .

Bumpkin
Nov. 14, 2002, 03:26 PM
I am digging this one up for more input /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"Proud Member Of The I Loff Starman Babies Clique"

Pocket Pony
Nov. 14, 2002, 03:27 PM
Bumpkin, where do you find these? I have a hard enough time finding posts from a couple of months ago, let alone a YEAR ago!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

"Both rider and horse must enjoy the work. This is the essence of success" - Reiner Klimke

Medievalist
Nov. 14, 2002, 03:35 PM
Bumpkin is the queen of bumpkining. We can aspire to her powers, but she is the true master /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

We loff you Bumpkin!

Bumpkin
Nov. 14, 2002, 03:47 PM
I am going to be LOST when so many threads are deleted, /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

It feels like I will be loosing some of my brain cells /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"Proud Member Of The I Loff Starman Babies Clique"

InWhyCee
Nov. 14, 2002, 04:39 PM
Go and judge a 4-H show or a Pony Club rally. At least one child, if not several, will know the location of the terminal phalanx. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
____________

"It is by no means the privilege of the rider to part with his horse solely by his own will." -- Alois Podhajsky

"Go on, Bill... This is no place for a pony."

7/8
Nov. 14, 2002, 05:21 PM
Hi. I am new. Why would a thread from a year ago get moved to the top?

That's beside the point. A friend of mine judges. During Eq. classes she asks them current events questions. One time she asked them who their favorite hunter and jumper rider was. One boy said, "Charles Owens." /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Parents of children who ride - For Christmas this year, buy them a subscription to either Practical Horseman, or the Chronicle. Read kids - you have to read!

MsHunter
Nov. 14, 2002, 05:34 PM
is what you will get from my 3 yr old karin, she wont' say BAY! Mine start at 3 knowing parts of saddle, bridle, horse and can answer questions that some 14yr olds that have come to my barn can't answer. PLEASE do me a favor, take it light on my leadliners!! One is my own child starting this year!

*In Your Dreams*
Nov. 14, 2002, 06:51 PM
/infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

**~~Andrea, Dreamer, Josie~~**
For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism.
I tried to keep an open mind but my brains fell out.

DreamBigEq37
Nov. 14, 2002, 07:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gold Dust:
furacin sweat
poultice
working blister
spider bandage
just a few off the top of my head.....

do we know what these things are or does the groom just take care of our horses? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know the first three... What is a spider bandage??

I groom my own horse ALL the time, and I read tons and tons of books! (and these boards, it's am azing what you learn here) AND I know what a Coffin Bone is.... but this I do not know.. please inform?

*~*~Lauryn*~*~*~
&lt;3 Justice Served &lt;3
&lt;3 Nip N Tuck &lt;3

DreamBigEq37
Nov. 14, 2002, 07:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 7/8:
Hi. I am new. Why would a thread from a year ago get moved to the top?

That's beside the point. A friend of mine judges. During Eq. classes she asks them current events questions. One time she asked them who their favorite hunter and jumper rider was. One boy said, "Charles Owens." /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Parents of children who ride - For Christmas this year, buy them a subscription to either Practical Horseman, or the Chronicle. Read kids - you have to read!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lol!! that's great!! I read both of those /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif (and pay for the subscriptions myself ...) and I could answer that question in a heartbeat - Lainie Wimberly (hunter) and Molly Ashe (jumper)!!

*~*~Lauryn*~*~*~
&lt;3 Justice Served &lt;3
&lt;3 Nip N Tuck &lt;3

Medievalist
Nov. 14, 2002, 07:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DreamBigEq37:

I know the first three... What is a spider bandage??

I groom my own horse ALL the time, and I read tons and tons of books! (and these boards, it's am azing what you learn here) AND I know what a Coffin Bone is.... but this I do not know.. please inform?

*~*~Lauryn*~*~*~
&lt;3 Justice Served &lt;3
&lt;3 Nip N Tuck &lt;3<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A spider bandage is a bandage that usually goes around the hock or the knee used for support(of a sort) and for holding dressings on. It is made of a square of cloth where the sides are ripped so that the bandage can be knotted or braided over the joint. They are really hard to do correctly. Nowadays, its better to just get a premade knee or hock bandage at the store. However, in an emergency it's good to know how to do one /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

My Life: "Qu'est ce que c'est ce bordel..."

DreamBigEq37
Nov. 14, 2002, 07:50 PM
Merci Beaucoup!

*~*~Lauryn*~*~*~
&lt;3 Justice Served &lt;3
&lt;3 Nip N Tuck &lt;3

Becca
Nov. 14, 2002, 07:59 PM
You know, I have to say that a LOT of kids do seek knowledge, retain knowledge, and absorb the knowledge. I am FREQUENTLY amazed by how thoroughly my knowledge exceeds many, many, many adult riders. It is not all to be blamed on the parents- trainers have a responsibility to educate their students in all spheres of horsemanship, not just to be passengers, nor even just effective passengers.

At some point everyone needs to take responsibility for their own knowledge and understanding, and while that may not be for a 6 yr old pony rider tio take on, teenagers ABSOLUTELY should.

i was at a show once with about 8 girls who were all high scholers, all having ridden for quite soem time. When they realized Victor Hugo Vidal, who was notorious for quizzing eq. kids, they panicked. I spent the night teaching them the basic parts of a leg, how a horse canters and some of the most elementary knowledge you could think of. It was so sad.

I feel that I EARN my right to ride and show my horses by possessing as much knowledge to care for them and their needs a spossible, and by seeking whatever knowledge I have not yet retained. Until I give my horse everything I have, how can Iexpect them to give me more?

The short of it is that it is not just undereducated junior riders who are problematic and undereducated. It is riders, and that is terribly unfair to all the horses we rely on.

touchstone-
Nov. 14, 2002, 08:04 PM
Sparky22 and I were a part of an Intercollegiate challenge class on Sunday that combined a horsemanship test and questions with riding phases to select an overall winner.

One team in our region hosts this class every year, and I think it's a great way to get people thinking about these issues. Ideally, the learning might begin before the college level, but it's never too late to learn--especially since so many IHSA riders are new to the sport.

Incidentally, the first test in the IHSA rulebook is "ask an appropriate question" and it's a very popular test at the high level competitions because it's tough on the rider and easy on the horse. Just another think I like about intercollegiate riding.

p.s. Guess who's teams were first and second?

Bumpkin
Nov. 14, 2002, 08:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kestrel:
Now I'm in for it! Since it was looking like time to put my money where my mouth is, I will be developing a "curriculum" for Horsemanship classes at the barn where I ride. Having a curious 6 year old follow me around asking questions as I put my horse away inspired me. It will probably be aimed at the 12 and under crowd, but hopefully the 13+ will show up too. We'll do lots of hands on stuff, pictures to trace/color for the little ones, quizes, certificates, and of course food. It will have to be fun to keep them coming. The Juniors who know the stuff will help.

I've picked up the Pony Club manuals. Any other titles I should get?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Proud Member Of The I Loff Starman Babies Clique"

Beezer
Nov. 14, 2002, 08:09 PM
but I just don't have the "inclination" to go looking back through all these pages. /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Still, a thought (and only one) occurs: Does anyone else think that there might be some grand conspiracy here? /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I mean, if trainers actually TAUGHT their students how to care for their own horses, wouldn't that make it difficult to explain what all those barn managers and office managers and grooms and assistants and working students and stall cleaners and ... well, everyone else ... and their resulting charges are needed for? /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Frankly, I think a much earlier poster had it about right: It takes less time for a trainer/whomever to just do it him/herself than to teach someone else how. Besides, you also get to make sure it got done YOUR way. It's all about control.

Proud member of the "Huh. I thought I'd fixed that" phase of baby green hunter ownership.

caffeinated
Nov. 15, 2002, 07:44 AM
just found a new website that might be helpful to people wanting to keep learning about these crazy critters we ride- www.manepoints.com (http://www.manepoints.com) All kinds of articles and information on there- you have to register but it's free /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif yay. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

**and people say gov't employees are useless... HA!**

lauriep
Nov. 15, 2002, 08:08 AM
and am not going to go back and catch up. So if what I'm about to say has been said, well, it bears repeating!

Kids, don't blame your trainers, parents, or anyone else for your lack of knowledge. Anything about horses, from conformation to how to put a bridle together, can be learned in BOOKS. Go to your library and check out BOOKS. Why wouldn't you want to learn everything there is to know about these animals you claim to love so much? The internet is great, but I don't believe you absorb information as well as when you sit down and study a BOOK.

Learning this stuff as beginners SHOULD happen if you have a good teacher who will take advantage of inclement weather to hold a classroom session on tack, conformation, grooming, etc. But if it doesn't, there is absolutely no reason you can't learn it yourself. Even riding exercises, such as a turn on the forehand, can at least be described in a BOOK, letting you be able to at least respond in theory when asked a question.

In a nutshell, READ!!!! Lack of education about ANYTHING is no one's fault but your own.

Laurie

wtywmn4
Nov. 15, 2002, 10:15 AM
Loud and thunderous applause, meter going off the board

Thank you thank you thank you.......Lauriep

Seems our modus operandi wants to place the blame on someone else, always.

InWhyCee
Nov. 15, 2002, 11:32 AM
I can see it now: "Instead of working on lead changes in preparation for next week's Medal Class, we're going to stay in the barn and Susie's going to get a lesson in how to do proper polo wraps. That will be $80, please." /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BRAVO, LAURIEP! Couldn't have said it any better.
______________

"It is by no means the privilege of the rider to part with his horse solely by his own will." -- Alois Podhajsky

"Go on, Bill... This is no place for a pony."

ccoronios
Nov. 15, 2002, 02:35 PM
I'm glad to see this thread reincarnated! It's so important - and filled with many, many great ideas and challenging thoughts.
I, too, would like to know how Kestrel's project is going.

www.ayliprod.com (http://www.ayliprod.com)
Equine Video and Still Photography in the Northeast

PTDeaconHP
Nov. 15, 2002, 05:44 PM
Im always at the barn, always, lol!
I ride every day and take care of my boys 100%. I talk to farriers, vets, everyone, lol!
I read tons of books!
I know what the coffin bone is,
I can even name all the vertibre! lol! Atlas, Axis, Cervical, Thorasic, Lumbar, Sacral, and Cocygeal. (I'm not sure I spelled the last set of vertibre right though... coccygeal.. cocygeal...hmmm)

Well anyway, People can be extremely dedicated and not know a certain bone... I mean, think how many bones there are! I know I don't know all the bones, although I'm trying!


**Member of the Mighty thoroughbred clique**
***"There is no secret so close as that between a rider and his horse."***

*spring*
Nov. 15, 2002, 10:08 PM
I'd have to agree that it's not hte trainer or the parent's fault if a kid doesn't know thier parts of the horse or other info. Its up to the kid to research the information. Read books, and better yet, read the internet. We now have access to this incredible resource.. just go to google and type in 'how to wrap a polo wrap' and you'll get numerous sites with step by step directions.

I'm 16, and while I certainly don't know everything (Doubt that anyone does! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif After all, there's *always* something more to learn!) I do my best to research everything I can. When I was 11, I used to attend every show, event, or clinic in the reigon and just take notes. I'm known as the girl who's always at..well, everything horsey, just to learn. I don't own a horse, but I'm leasing one, and still reading nearly everything I can get my hands on, and attending clinics I don't participate in myself.(and video taping them too!) I'm in pony club, but even before I could join, I was doing my best to get information off of friends who were members, and even saved up my allowance so I could purchase the manual.

I suppose you're either interested in learning such things or.. you're not. At any rate, glad this thread was bumped up! Made for an interesting and informative read! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Oh, and while we're on the topic, here are some interesting/fun sites:

http://www.completerider.com/learn/bones/bones.html (you can scroll over for bones, parts of tack, ect /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

http://www.completerider.com/learn/tackup.html#
(or even tack up a horse /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

http://www.myhorsematters.com/
(an interesting site on horse health)

http://www.newrider.co.uk/
(check out the 'starting out' link, seems to be a fairly good resource for those about to or who just recently started out.. or who knows? /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif )

there's a few more that I can't remember the addy for atm. The pony club website has some fun informative type horse games too. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

- To Ride A Horse Is To Borrow Freedom -