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View Full Version : What do you hate most about our sport?



B.G.M. heidi
Mar. 27, 2001, 07:33 PM
There is no other sport which can suffuse you with such an immense sense of satisfaction and joy.

I'm concerned, though, that the sport has become very far removed from the simplicity of that pleasure - it's a game of politics, relative financial wherewithal, nasty, and downright, criminal training methods, populated by too-many questionable 'horse traders'.

What bugs you the most about our sport?

B.G.M. heidi
Mar. 27, 2001, 07:33 PM
There is no other sport which can suffuse you with such an immense sense of satisfaction and joy.

I'm concerned, though, that the sport has become very far removed from the simplicity of that pleasure - it's a game of politics, relative financial wherewithal, nasty, and downright, criminal training methods, populated by too-many questionable 'horse traders'.

What bugs you the most about our sport?

spaz
Mar. 27, 2001, 07:52 PM
How bout just how much it flat out costs?

I went to Jiffy Lube one day with my friend on my way home to get a car battery or something, and they had the EXACT SAME sponges and other bathing stuff for less. Like that sponge that is half blue/half white with the scrubbies? $3.99 at SLT, $1.99 at Jiffy Lube.

My secret is out /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Hardly there
Mar. 27, 2001, 07:53 PM
I would have too vote all of the above.

But the things that I love about it outnumber the things I hate.

Mar. 27, 2001, 08:05 PM
Oh there will always be the bad things in everything. But in my opinion, in the horse world the good out weighs the bad far more.

But the issue that totally disgusts me is "The cruelty inflicted on horses in the name of competition - under the guise of 'training'"

Cruelty as a training method is just totally uncalled for. Politics, yeah it's there. I don't think it's going to change much. As for the $$$ issue, I think -- er, strike that -- HOPE everyone knows money isn't everything in the horse world. Yeah, this is an expensive sport, but you get around it if you've got what it takes (TALENT)... like being a working student.

- Kahlua -
pix (http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=1521322)

elizabeth
Mar. 27, 2001, 08:19 PM
I hate the fact that there are people in our sport who talk openly about how much money they have (I think that that reeks of poor taste), and I hate the fact that this sport draws children into talking about what kind of very expensive cars their parents are going to get them.

I hate the fact that we have the elitist reputation that we deserve.

For those who are going to flame me, please re-read the sentence immediately prior to this one first. Then flame away. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Mar. 27, 2001, 08:31 PM
this will take all night to type (at my rate)!!!

"What I like most" is a better thread, but I'm not a thread starter, so, I'll list here:

Upfront and brutally honest-

May not have been to the "finals", but has enough horse-sense to know better-

Has shotgun to take care of unworthy people trying to steal ones clients (JK!!!!!!)

Someone with the patience for a scared child.

One who truly takes the horse's perspective.

A person who actually LISTENS to the horse and rider.

Sorry if I ruined the topic Heidi, but I've kinda been on a rampage today,

/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

[This message was edited by Silly Mommy on Mar. 30, 2001 at 10:39 AM.]

Becca
Mar. 27, 2001, 08:34 PM
The sheer abuse so many horses undergo.

I can stand not being the best b/c I'm not out there w/ the most expensive horses, despite how amazing I may be.

I can handle people getting scammed on a horse they are sold. I can handle those people losing money on huge commissions.

But when I see some of the things that these animals are put through, its enough to make me never want to be there to see it again. Horses being beat, abused, and harmed- just so they jump a little higher, or trot a little slower...all for a $1.50 ribbon... Its sickening.

B.G.M. heidi
Mar. 27, 2001, 08:39 PM
Have you been engulfed in an evil PMS fog, too? /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

I love the sport, I love the beasties, and will spend a lifetime, perhaps unfortunately, as a participant. There are those moments, though, when I question my sanity and the wisdom of sinking money into a sport which I love and simultaneously hate.

I've yet to meet a horse I hate (though I've come close), but it's the damn humans, who train, sell, show the horses, who leave me confounded.

JustJumpIt19
Mar. 27, 2001, 08:47 PM
I strongly dislike people who show SEVERAL horses in one division, take home all the ribbons and deprive riders who have worked hard with one horse a chance of winning.

****Courtney****

Merry
Mar. 27, 2001, 09:00 PM
Ah, JustJumpit18, a person after my own heart! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

So, about my vote... I'm sick of the wankers out there that rip-off trusting clients in sales transactions, pad training bills, and ooze misguided self-importance until it coats them like an oil slick. I just want to yell, "Get over yourself! You're just a freakin' horse trainer! It's not like you wrote The Great American Novel, walked on the moon or developed an AIDS vaccine!"

Phew! Feel much better. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Mar. 27, 2001, 09:13 PM
is in the same moon as me!LOL!!!!!!

Let's re-name the thread--

PMS-ing women, GET IT OFF YOUR CHEST!!!!!

Merry
Mar. 27, 2001, 09:16 PM
Yes, culled from the herd, but apparently the clock continues to click... /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

By the way, I just consumed an entire pint of Ben 'n Jerry's "Phish Food": chocolate with marshmallow swirls!

B.G.M. heidi
Mar. 27, 2001, 09:27 PM
Egads, do you think that this, eerily resembles the phenomena of dorm-mates all cycling together? Do you think this is an indication that we, suffering through a simultaneous PMS (hoo, hoo, a new clique) spend too much time on this BB? /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Merry
Mar. 27, 2001, 09:34 PM
Maybe you have something there. Could staring at a computer monitor actually bring it on? Something about high-intensity light stimulating the pituitary gland?
/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Trindle99
Mar. 27, 2001, 09:36 PM
I dislike when horse professionals lie, cheat , sell people unsuitable mounts, riding instructors that overface students and they end up getting injured and mostly I dislike the attitudes that so many juniors have about money and the pressure that is put on them to have the most expensive horse in the barn and win. It makes it hard for people like me the local level horse professional, who loves their students, is honest and has a family atmosphere at my barn...I belive that's the way it is supposed to be FUN! wether you are riding a school horse in borrowed clothes at a schooling show or you head south for the winter and spend way too much money competing. I really belive alot of the fun is gone from our sport and with horses getting sold at such astonomical prices even to show locally it just seems sometimes that this industry revolved around money. That just makes me nuts I wish that every rider could have the same showing and or riding privlages regaurdless of income.

lil orphan annie
Mar. 28, 2001, 02:45 AM
I know I ranted a little in Moesha's thread about stress, but regardless of the money, evil dealers, spoilt owners, horses give me so much pure unadulterated pleasure that I would never give it up.

However, does buying a mega-expensive horse give ultimate satisfaction? I would have thought that picking up blue ribbon after blue ribbon, you would get a little blase about the whole thing.

Several years ago now, I was given the opportunity to show a very nice horse owned by some friends. He was a sweetie, very easy, not the best mover, but he was a nice looking horse and we just clicked, the two of us could do no wrong. And we always won or placed in all our classes (we're talking local circuit here). Under the watchful eyes of my instructor I was then given the opportunity to back his half-sister, she was a little more difficult than him, but much more talented. We never won anything at our first shows, much less placed. (Our first show all she did was buck and fart around the whole arena.) But I think it was our fourth show and she won reserve champion in her baby green division, I was soooo thrilled. Those 2nd place ribbons meant a lot to me because I had put a lot of time/effort into her. She was subsequently sold (I was v. sad). But I enjoyed her more than her half brother. What I won with her was an achievement, while what I won with Class was, well, just posing.

upperco
Mar. 28, 2001, 03:38 AM
Loosers who can't compete and blame their lack of talent on cruelty,rich people, crooked judges and trainers.Here's a suggestion for you.GET A LIFE or try another sport like endurance riding or combined training.Have fun.

JustJump
Mar. 28, 2001, 04:32 AM
<<Loosers who can't compete and blame their lack of talent on cruelty,rich people, crooked judges and trainers.Here's a suggestion for you.GET A LIFE or try another sport like endurance riding or combined training.Have fun. >>

Misguided superiority complexes that produce totally obnoxious, rude, and off-base comments like this one. I've known many true winners, from Short Stirrup to the top of the Olympic podium, in the course of my involvement with horses. None of them looks down on the rest of us with disdain. They remember where they came from, and where, but for some lucky circumstances and the support of their very much appreciated clients (the loyal ones who stick with them through thick and thin), they would, and might yet, end up once again.

Jumphigh83
Mar. 28, 2001, 04:51 AM
Someone forgot an "all of the above" answer for the poll question....as far as the PMS theory, it is gods way of providing misery with company!!! Chocolate is god!! Ice cream uber allis!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

AdultHunterRider
Mar. 28, 2001, 04:52 AM
People who blame all of their problems on the horse, the trainer, other people, etc.. instead of their own inability to properly ride.

People who insist on campaigning a very old horse who should be retired because it is the only horse that will cart them around. Their own horse stops with them. See first comment as to reason.

People who are the barn gossips who think it is their job in life to talk about everyone else constantly.

VTrider
Mar. 28, 2001, 05:04 AM
the Pink Floyd song, "Money" running through my mind.

Jumphigh83
Mar. 28, 2001, 05:24 AM
Don't give me that to goody good bull$h*t....(close huh?)
The rider blaming the horse when THEY are the problem would HAVE to be the TOP of my list..and then be arrogant enough to believe they are good and the horse is "bad"..arrrgghhhh! "what's WRONG with this horse???"...LOOK IN THE MIRROR IDIOT!!!! (on the inside) Let's try that again (on the outside)

Twister
Mar. 28, 2001, 05:55 AM
What I dislike most is the disconnect we have created. Almost every person in the horse business, both pro and am, got there because at some point in their distant past they said, 'Mommy, can I have a pony?' How did that child turn into the pro who doesn't even think about the after affects of LTD, or the a/o who whines about everything else in their life as they hand their horse to the groom, or the children's hunter rider who complains bitterly about the politics when they didn't win.

My life is so far from ideal it is laughable, but I try to be thankful every single day that I still have horses in my life.

tle
Mar. 28, 2001, 05:57 AM
All of the above... which is why I event! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Flash44
Mar. 28, 2001, 06:02 AM
People lose sight of the simple joy of riding and being around horses.

You are not always rewarded for a job well done.

luxorluver
Mar. 28, 2001, 06:22 AM
The one thing that bugs me about competatively riding on the 'A' circuit is........I can't really think of something that bothers me that much. Sure, I might get a little fustrated when someone with a more expensive horse beats me, but if I rode my best and my trainer was happy with my performance, I don't really care if I get a ribbon or not (I'll be honest, I do care a little but not all that much).
I am just so happy that I am able to compete on the A circuit, as for many years I was not able to. I am just so thankful for what I have and what I am able to do.
Maybe we should change this thread around to read "What do you love most about this sport!" /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

hobson
Mar. 28, 2001, 06:39 AM
Hey, TLE, I was thinking that very same thing - I haev yet to encounter this kind of crookedness and elitism in eventing.

No matter how expensive your horse is, how perfectly you've arranged your hairnets, or how highly regarded your trainer, you just can't fake it on the cross-country course (unless you're at baby novice).

C'mon, everyone - ditch the A shows and come on over to our side!

Mar. 28, 2001, 06:47 AM
has spoken. LOL!!!

Drifter
Mar. 28, 2001, 07:02 AM
I too am thankful to have horses in my life! I must admit that some days I greatly dislike and am
disappointed in it. Like anything in life all things have their good and bad sides, along with
any business. Being around the horse world for a long time one learns and observes a lot. I think
some out there need a "reality check" . Like it or
not politics,the fact that money does talk,sleezy
horse people, and cruelty to the animals we love
most does in fact exist- very unfortunately.
It is so sad to think that so many seem to disregard morals, values, and integrity. There are a lot of hard-working and talented people
who do not necessarily have the huge $$$ it takes
to compete and buy the fanciest of horses, but it
doesn't mean they are less talented and have worked any less. It should be fair at any event!!
Unfortunately, in hunter world this is not true.
I truly understand why people opt for eventing and/or the jumpers! This is not where my or my
daughter's love is though. Oh well- we'll continue to perservere- and take the good, the bad, and the ugly for the love of our horses!
I'll get off my soapbox now!!!

hobson
Mar. 28, 2001, 07:04 AM
May the trakehner jump be with you.

Twister
Mar. 28, 2001, 07:05 AM
Hobson, take a look around at your next event. Crookedness and elitism are alive and well in eventing, too. There is no moral high ground attached to eventing.

luxorluver
Mar. 28, 2001, 07:07 AM
Those fences scare the living daylights out of me!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif I just don't think I could handle jumping INTO water not over it!!! And those banks...I just don't think so!!! Heck, I'm even scared to ride my horses OUTSIDE let alone OUTSIDE AND OVER SCARY FENCES!!

Mar. 28, 2001, 08:07 AM
Looks like another BB movie in the making.

EQUIWARS!!!

I'm sure Heidi could loan us Hans, and my furry yak-looking babies could trekk across the desert carrying the loot that we've scammed from some other shister, by selling him a horse whose navicular looks like swiss cheese (but we switched the X-rays). As he comes after us in his hover-craft, the yaks immediately dig a tunnel into the sand and cover us up...

He sees the gnarly bunch of yaks, but continues on in his rampant search to destroy the one who got one over on him for the first time in his immensely greedy life...

hobson
Mar. 28, 2001, 08:26 AM
oh, crap! I'm stuck - I saw the first movie in, like, 1977. There's some character called Pizza the Hut?

CdnRider
Mar. 28, 2001, 08:37 AM
I am probably going to get panned for saying this but I can't help myself.

Having both groomed at the A level circuit (Tampa last year) and for my eventer trainer there are two big differences from the two sports.

When you are at the A shows look around at the ring, there you will see two distinct classes. The riders and trainers and then the grooms. You'll find many of the grooms in shorts and t-shirts with a rag and comb hanging out of their back pockey and a skrim held up by a leather lead rope as they raise the jumps for their riders. Compared to the riders this is a huge class distinction! I hated looking the way I did (probably another reason why I came home early). I felt so below everyone and for some people I was!

Now when I groomed for my trainer (this is a BIG event in BC) in the ten minute box she was the one icing her horse off as I walked her around. I didn't need any rags or comb near the dressage ring or stadium ring, all I did was walk her horse for her. And here because most eventers don't even have grooms (she did because she had brought two horses and I think she wanted me to get exposed) there is NO class distinction.

Not to say that there is no elitism in eventing, I just think that is to a lesser degree.

Duffy
Mar. 28, 2001, 08:39 AM
As luxorluver put it:

"The one thing that bugs me about competatively riding on the 'A' circuit is........I can't really think of something that bothers me that much. Sure, I might get a little fustrated when someone with a more expensive horse beats me, but if I rode my best and my trainer was happy with my performance, I don't really care if I get a ribbon or not (I'll be honest, I do care a little but not all that much).
I am just so happy that I am able to compete on the A circuit, as for many years I was not able to. I am just so thankful for what I have and what I am able to do.
Maybe we should change this thread around to read "What do you love most about this sport!"

I agree!

I also agree with the PMS, PPMS, PPPMS, etc. syndromes. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif (I was feeling WAY used earlier this week, but a nice phone call goes a long way towards easing that...ummm...PO'd feeling!) /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

And I also agree that I wish there was less abuse, politics, money, etc. involved with this sport. I certainly don't do it for the prestige and money! LOLOL I do it because I love it and consider myself blessed that I am able to participate in any way. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Oh, I forgot! YES, CHOCOLATE RULES, LADIES!!!!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

tle
Mar. 28, 2001, 09:03 AM
Twister... maybe. No one said eventing was perfect, but those things certainly don't exist to anywhere NEAR the degree they do at the 'A's.

Hobson... LOL. Glad to know there's another "nutcase" out there who agrees with me. I can't get enough of this sport... even with the FEW flaws it may have. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Luxorlover... aww... now what's wrong with galloping 500 meter per minute over varied terrain only to have to drop off a 5' drop go 3 strides to a skinny rolltop? heehee... Don't worry. All these jumps scared all of us at one time or another. Practice, practice, practice... after a while they look easy (I'm even now thinking that there are a FEW Advanced fences that look jumpable... just don't tell my mother that!).

Mar. 28, 2001, 09:12 AM
has been sooo generous as to bring us lunch on site. They also supply beverages--Pepsi, and american beer, but I'm working on a contract to get in some Canadian beers for Hans and myself.

hobson
Mar. 28, 2001, 09:34 AM
May the Molson be with you.

JustJump
Mar. 28, 2001, 09:48 AM
I mean, I'll rip as fast as the next person (faster, I hope, considering I like to win!!) over jumper jumps, but those cross country suckers-----!!!!! YIPES!

I mean there you are galloping along....

and then you jump, and then you
l
l
l
l
V --drop!


and then SPLASH!!!! WHEW! my insides are not up to it thank you!!

Medievalist
Mar. 28, 2001, 09:52 AM
I dont hate anything about our sport. Some things make me sad and/or extremely jealous, but I still love the sport. I like how it is something most people can enjoy for their entire lives and aren't done before they hit 14(like in gymnastics). I like going to shows and watching beautifully trained animals jump a course. I love feeding my old junior hunter cookies and ice cream when I visit him on my breaks from school. This sport takes many things I don't have like money, patience, and time, but I've learned to cope with my lack of those /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Hopefully I'll have these things someday and will be a success, but until then I'm just glad to have the opportunities I have had.

Checkers324
Mar. 28, 2001, 10:42 AM
Nothing is the fault of the sport itself -- it is the fault of the mindless, heartless, and/or crude people who happen to be in the sport. Does the fact that some people use electric wires, lighter fluid, and plastic chips to make their horse's jump cleaner mean that the whole sport is cruel? NO! Does the fact that some people are rich and snobby mean that the whole sport is elitist? NO! We have to govern ourselves and work as hard as we can to be the best we can be, and if we can, try to educate others. Yes, there are ruthless "horse trainers" who make their horses endure cruel and unusual punishment they call training; yes, there are "riding instructors" who overmount or overface their students, push them until they have no confidence left, and even put them down; yes, there are businessmen who sell unsound or unsuitable horses by hiding their problems; and yes, there are politics to dodge and high prices to be paid. But in what equestrian discipline do you not find this? Is it worth giving up your one true love, your pride and joy, your life -- horses -- for? Just because others may do things one way, does not mean we all have to. I think a wonderful thing about show-jumping in particular is the lack of subjectivity, which means that we can do things our way and still be successful -- because all that matters is that the rails stay up and your time is fast. As an example, who can successfully compete in dressage anymore whilst having a happy, relaxed, correctly-trained partner? Heart-wrenching tests performed by falsely-trained, tense, and unhappy but "flashy" horses from the country of preference are being rewarded these days, while beautiful tests performed by horses who are happy, in harmony with their riders, movely freely, and classically-trained but not "flashy" and not from a preferred country, usually are not. I feel there is probably less politics in hunters (don't ask me about equitation, though, I know nothing about that) than in dressage, and therefore it is us hunter or jumper riders who should be most able to achieve our dreams while in a harmonious partnership with our horses, and lead the way to a more horse-friendly -- and horseman-friendly -- equestrian world.

Checkers324
Ride the wind, and be at one with your horse!

Beezer
Mar. 28, 2001, 11:46 AM
Elizabeth said back on the first page: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I hate the fact that we have the elitist reputation that we deserve.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I pretty much have to agree. I love our sport. I CHERISH my horses. But if we have ANY hope of keeping it alive and helping it thrive, we have to work not only on the realities but on our image.

Case in point: The other weekend, Merry and I took one of the "kids" to hang out at a local horse park that was holding a gymkhana -- timed events -- just so she could get used to being trailered to a "horse party." The place was PACKED with kids, parents, grandparents and, yes, an amazing assortment of horses ... none of which would have made it in the hunter ring, but they were nonetheless solid citizens doing a job. To say this young warmblood stood out is a VAST understatement.

Several people asked us what kind of horse she was; when told, to a person they asked what we were doing there "slumming" -- I kid you not. One little girl begged to pet the filly; the mom told her, "Enjoy it, because that's as close to royalty as you'll ever get." A couple of people remarked that it wonder the filly wasn't walking around with her nose up in the air, seeing as how she was a "hunter" among the poor folk.

Merry and I did our best PR, but we were not about to convince anyone that "doing" hunters and jumpers was not some elitist sport that they could never hope to participate in. It was very sad.

I'd definitely agree that we have somehow lost the essential "joy" in our sport. Certainly not all of us, certainly not all the time. But I think we can admit that we get too caught up in the trappings. Unless we figure out how to make it accessible to the people who packed that horse park, we are in danger of it slowly and irreversibly dying.

Sermon over. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Jen West
Mar. 28, 2001, 12:22 PM
is such an issue...there are thousands of good cheap horses out there ripe for the picking to anyone with the eye to find them and the skill to make them...and there are plenty of ways and means to delelop that eye and skill...it's the breeches and boots and entry fees thing that are killing me.

Riding isn't rocket science, and with all of the really really low divisions people ought to be able to school their own horses, for the most part, really.

But now I am shocked...so the electrical wires over fences weren't a bad joke? And lighter fluid and chips in boots. What a bunch of weird sh*t to do to a horse.

baymare
Mar. 28, 2001, 12:42 PM
Thing I hate most about the sport: the people in it.

Thing I love most about the sport: the people in it.
/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Twister
Mar. 28, 2001, 02:31 PM
Training level eventer you are right, you don't see those things to the extent that they are seen in the hunters, but you see more of it than you used to, right? You see more eight year olds in the advanced divisions. You see more horses selling for over 50,000. Once the big money is there, the morality flies out the window. The only difference between hunters and eventers is it has taken the eventers 15 years or so longer to get to the big money prices. Five years from now, you will be bemoaning about eventers the same things you are bemoaning about hunters right now.

DarkerHorse
Mar. 28, 2001, 02:34 PM
<<The fact and realization that wealth will get you further than sheer talent
>>

This really is NOT true. While having a nice horse will get you far you have to be able to find the jumps.. I mean you can be riding the nicest horse in the world and not be able to find one distance. Or you can be riding a horse that jumps in OK style and have a perfect course with no pace changes and win at every show.. Its all relative. The people who win big are the ones who are able to ride and not make any pace changes and who have a nice horse. If you have talent you will be able to ride other people's horses.

Nikki^
Mar. 28, 2001, 03:34 PM
1. How "A" shows try to sqeeze every penny out of you in fees other than class fees.

2. Children having temper trantoms because they didn't get the blue ribbon.

3. Rude trainers who hog every inch of the warmup ring and all the schooling jumps.

4. Over priced mobile tack stores.

5. Horses being pushed to hard just so the rider can compete in more classes.

"The Knights of Nee demand a sacrafice...we want......A Shrubary!!!"
go to: www.DMTC.com/DMTC98/pedigree (http://www.DMTC.com/DMTC98/pedigree) to look up your Thoroughbred's pedigree!

Ghazzu
Mar. 28, 2001, 04:40 PM
What do I hate most?

1)The disconnect between what a hunter was historically and the beautiful automaton seen nowadays in the ring.

2)The fashion snobbery that is rampant.

kenbiki
Mar. 28, 2001, 06:23 PM
Just about everything except the horses.

skysmom
Mar. 28, 2001, 06:39 PM
I hate the fact that everything costs so much.that being said , I admit I gladly spend all my disposable income on the horses..much to my non-horsey husbands dismay & confusion. But without this in my life I'd probably be a hypo-chrondriac or something..

BaByHuEy1234
Mar. 28, 2001, 06:45 PM
I hate the whole "I have more money than you so I'm gonna place higher in this Euqitaion/hunter class than you." That really gets to me. It isn't fair to those of us who aren't dirt poor but you know just have enough to stay afloat and really WORK for stuff, rahter than just flying across the US, ride our horse in one show, win everything and then just fly back home. That is unfair to the people who really want to win and work for it...but the sad thing is, what are you going to do about it. Maybe over time it will change and we will have an equal playing field.

~*Tracey*~

AsIf
Mar. 28, 2001, 07:13 PM
The 2'6" adult hunter division at local shows.

I just started in this division after being a horse show Mom for years. I thought it would be fun. It is, with the exception of most of my fellow competitors. You would think we were competing for a spot on the USET! I think it's all about chasing points. My biggest concern is getting around and over all 8 fences. Most of the time I succeed in that. But the few times I have won a blue ribbon seemed to infuriate some of these women. One woman protested the ability of the judge when I placed higher than she did. She comments on each of my trips to anyone who will listen, saying I just have to sit there, my horse takes me around. Well, I am doing more than sit there, but I did buy an older push along horse with some mileage. I may be old, but I'm not stupid!
I thought the 2'6" hunter division was where you started out, until you figured things out and moved on to 3'. Some people just stay there forever, going around the same 8 fences, collecting points. This seems really boring, but maybe I am missing something! I'm just trying to have a good time!

If I were younger and braver, I would go for the jumpers or eventing, but at this stage of my life, I am very happy to be doing what I am.

skysmom
Mar. 28, 2001, 07:20 PM
Sorry to hear your local circuit is that way..Since I came back to riding as an adult I've only had positive experiences with fellow adults,even ones that ride at other farms. A few exceptions of course, but I take into concideration who they train with..I"ve been lucky enough to encounter "fun" people,wish each other luck, and have veeerrrry interesting conversations during hack classes!!
/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif It's really not all bad /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Cap
Mar. 28, 2001, 08:13 PM
I don't understand you jumper people! You go wizzing around 4'6" courses and then you freak out over an itty bitty 3' drop! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Seriously, I don't understand it. A jumper trainer in this area took one of his top students, who does well in the open division, to school a little x-c course. None of the fences are above prelim level (3'7"). The rider and the horse had a great time, but she was absolutely screaming over every fence, especially the banks, because she was so nervous. It was hilarious. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

JustJumpIt19
Mar. 28, 2001, 08:42 PM
AsIf, do you compete in VHSA? I agree with you about the point chasing, I know a few pony riders at my barn who are all about the points! When show season is in full swing, they school about everyday, and show every weekend, sometimes two shows on two different days. I just can't do it lol

****Courtney****

Astraled
Mar. 28, 2001, 09:40 PM
I'd actually like to do a little event (or horse trial or whatever they're really called /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif ). I have had the chance to school my mare over xc fences and it was quite fun. I just get nervous because the fences aren't breakaway. But a little 3' xc dealie would be fun. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

_________________________
Stall confinement: Week Two of Twelve

SuaveReno
Mar. 28, 2001, 10:38 PM
Except if you have collestrol /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Unfortunately, I'll have to live vicariously through those of you who can.

Merry knows my travails with a less than honest trainer.

My pet peeve would be how overly inflated anything horse related is from horse sponges to the shows. It's a shame this sport is so cost-prohibitive for most. That wasn't really a choice but it's my pet peeve.

The people with money don't bother me because I believe that if you have good horsemanship skills you will beat the riders with the bottomless checkbooks. Case in point, a woman at my barn just paid a fortune for an AHSA horse of the year that she's showing the the long stirrup classes. The horse is now stopping with her and launched her into the mud at Indio. Needless to say she went to Indio all 6 weeks and came home with only 3 ribbons. I am sorry to say, I was less than charitable when I heard. I thought something along the lines of well maybe she'll hate her new horse too and end up selling it for a pittance and convince her hubby to buy an even more expensive one, because the AHSA horse of the year wasn't very good...." Sheeze, I'll be happy to give her old horse a good home /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[This message was edited by SuaveReno on Mar. 29, 2001 at 01:43 AM.]

upperco
Mar. 29, 2001, 03:39 AM
I guess I'm lucky to be in Ma.I'm not saying that everyone is perfect,but the trainers are excellent and support the local shows and they also go to fl and all the big AA shows and indoors.,but I never feel that they look down on me and my friends who show mostly in the local area and attend some of the A and AA shows in Ma and Vt.We love the Vt shows especially Manchester-great shopping and dining!Saratoga in May and June is a great place to show.I also invite any of you who would like to see a GREAT event to plan to attend the New England Medal Finals in Oct Joe Dotoli along with all the trainers in our area produce a truly outstanding competition with top judges,great courses,electronic scoreboard.beautiful trophies,emotional presentations ,a huge party and a video show of all the graduating riders and many of the highlights of the year. Joe produces a video and an evening that is second to none.Those of you who hate things about shows should try our area.Now I have a problem with the people who think eventing is preferable to showing-Horses turning over,exhaustion,riders falling and the death of horses and riders is certainly more abusive than showing.Just because we won a gold medal in the Olympics in a cruel sport and the AHSA using David Oconnor and parading him around as an AHSA pawn in the sickening fight against the USET doesn't hide the fact that eventing is at the very least the most abusive horse sport.I say showing horses is the way to go.Maybe we can't win a gold medal with a hunter,but we probably won't kill him either.

tle
Mar. 29, 2001, 08:30 AM
Twister... yes, you see more of it than you used to (even in my measly 7 years of eventing experience). However, I think there really is more of a "you CAN find a diamond in the rough" mentality for eventers. Sure, you can go out and easily find Training packers for $15K or more which I think is totally unreasonable. ANY horse should be able to go Training level. Ad the Area Beginner Novice championships (less than 3', for AsIf) last fall, the winner was on a Fjord and the reserve was a very nicely spotted appy! Yes, at the upper levels you have some people paying MAJOR bucks for horses with experience... even to the point of asking ludicrious prices (ie: a short-listed TB that suddenly started refusing Prelim sized stadium fences was going for the asking price of $250K!). And yes, it seems that more people are coming into the sport with the mentality that you can "buy" wins with a higher priced horse... Ie: last year's CCI* winner at the NAYRC was riding Heyday (Bruce Davidson's mount from Atlanta) and in Area III, an adult is currently cleaning up at Training level on Easter Parade (Jim Graham's WEG at The Hague mount).

I don't know for sure what my point is. 8yo has always (to my knowledge) been the minimum age for Advanced. I guess without the political parts in eventing (aka subjectivity that just isn't there in XC and stadium), I don't see the "evils" that ARE present being NEARLY as bad or likely ever to get as bad as the hunter rings.

MsHunter
Mar. 29, 2001, 10:26 AM
Twister, I agree with your first post.

Hobson, you are hysterical, and what this sport is all about. I hope you come to Woodedge, I think we'd all have fun.

What I hate most:

Customers who think that a good trainer is about how many clients one has and what level of showing they are at.

Clients who care more about what the barn looks like than how the horse is taken care of.

ANYONE who thinks a green horse is defined as one with little show experience but jumps and does their changes.

Amateurs who think a young horse is 5 instead of 3.

Owners/trainers/professionals/riders who have little to no respect for us breeders and have no idea how much time/knowledge/money and blood sweat and tears are utilized to produce even ONE horse/pony.

The lack of respect for one as a professional who has to teach a horse to LOAD/BATH/CLIP/SHIP/BRIDLE/GET TACK/STARTED/and go to their first show. You literally can die at any one of all of these stages.

The emphasis only being on the trainer riding in the show ring, instead of the millions of trainers who have decided to keep their riding at home and use their talent with their clients as a ground person and concentrate on the customer instead of themselves at a show.

The lack of respect for anyone in this business that gets people started in riding and horse ownership, if it wasn't for these people there also would be none of us left to take anyone to the shows.

People thinking hunters is politics thereby making jumpers the preferred route, and trainers who can't teach distances and feel and an eye so they lead kids to the jumpers without any choice or attempt at hunters or equitation.

Ah
Offsoap box now.

MsHunter
Mar. 29, 2001, 10:28 AM
#1 complaint

Shingle hangers with nothing more put into the business but a AHSA membershiip.

Soon, there will be no farms.

Smart Alec
Mar. 29, 2001, 11:30 AM
eventing ALL the WAY!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

hobson
Mar. 29, 2001, 11:35 AM
Hey Jane Ervin, where and what is Woodedge? How far is it from my fair city of Philadelphia? I'd love to meet you!

MsHunter
Mar. 29, 2001, 11:38 AM
Your barn has come to Woodedge many times! It is on Sunday, I have an A/A younger, and a prechildrens for Sunday. The others I have do NOT want to show! Oh Well! It is 30 minutes from Phila, they have a website with directions
www.woodedge.com (http://www.woodedge.com) Ask Jerry! I am surprised he isn't planning on coming?

Snowbird
Mar. 29, 2001, 11:41 AM
What you have described is the very difference between being in the horse business and the rider business.

Yes! What I hate most is that a beautiful sport has been corrupted into a place where the horse show is to gratify the ego of the rider instead of measure the talent of the horse.

What I love most is the wonderful horsemen I have known who really cared and knew how to make a horse instead of buying one someone else had to make for them. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

D.L.
Mar. 29, 2001, 11:46 AM
Jane Ervin, I think you're starting a fan club!!!

For those of us who have left the so-called "glory" of the show ring for a more fulfilling life of working with the babies, that's what it's all about to us. It's not that we can't or haven't sat on a perfectly made hunter and cantered around side-diagonal-side diagonal...it's that there's just something about that feeling when your 2 year old walks into the wash stall for the first time without freaking out and looks in your eyes with fear and then trust...to me, that's horsemanship. I'd like to see some of those "polished show riders" try that!!!

hobson
Mar. 29, 2001, 11:55 AM
uh...Jane...do you have me mixed up with someone else? Now I'm confused. I'm at a tiny pony club barn, and the only thing we ever go to in NJ is polocrosse...don't know a Jerry. Do you still like me?

MsHunter
Mar. 29, 2001, 11:58 AM
How did you get yours into a washstall without freaking out for the first time? <G>! I haven't had that experience yet. The first bath of the year once again, when they are 1 always provides to be entertaining. I wonder why I have literally no one volunteering to help me? Geez, it is only water isn't it?

Actually, my all time favorite, is the first time I sit in the tack aboard them. The first time I canter them, and the first time I go over a jump, no matter the size. And, in that order.

I think there are so many experience we all miss
depending on where our involvement lies in the sport.

Dry Clean Only
Mar. 29, 2001, 12:47 PM
Upperco -
Check out what age most hunters are criples, and see five year olds getting their hocks injected and then tell me Eventing is an abusive sport! Those horses hold up longer than anything, because they dont throw them in advanced at age 6.

Abusive? Please. Hunters are supposed to be about showing off horses that would be the best in the hunt field, but I would rather ride an event horse than a show horse in a hunt anyday. Hunters tend to be big fat chickens. And do you really think that a horse would jump those fences if they didnt want to?

I know that I should have just ignored like everyone else has had the good sense to do, but I couldnt help myself!

-Lex (FYI a hunter rider)

D.L.
Mar. 29, 2001, 12:49 PM
Well, the washstall thing is no easy feat!!!

My new 2 1/2 y.o. is very strong willed, stubborn and was completely wild until about a month ago. She wasn't even halter broke when I bought her. The day she arrived, we had to pick her feet up one at a time and "walk" her off the trailer because after a long ride, she decided the trailer seemed safer than the alternative, and she would not budge!!! So, even though she leads now, I knew a battle over the wash stall would be a horrible ordeal and she was far too smart to back her in (which for some reason seems to work better with geldings).

I resorted to bribery. For a few days in a row, I let her nibble grain out of a bucket first at the edge of the wash stall, then further back. After a couple days with one front foot in, and then both front feet, I just put the bucket at the back of the wash stall and literally waited almost 20 minutes until she decided it was safe. She took one big sniff of the foreign looking rubber mats and walked in.

Once the grain was gone, she stood there and let me groom her for quite a while. I didn't introduce water until the wash stall was "the treat stall" in her mind. She still gets a treat in there every day!

This mare is very athletic and can literally turn inside out bucking. Not to mention that she will be at least 17h and I'm 5'4". So, the first time I sit on her back, I want to be completely sure that I have earned her trust and respect!!

MsHunter
Mar. 29, 2001, 01:29 PM
yes, I am confusing you with Nelson, both witty woman from Pa! And, I still like you just fine!

D.L. You don't really think that developing trust means that you can sit on them the first time uneventfully? Ha! The boys are oh so much easier than the girls!

D.L.
Mar. 29, 2001, 02:24 PM
Jane Ervin

No, I don't really think that, but I fool myself into believing that they don't really want to launch Mom into outer space. I definitely agree that the girls are tougher and always full of surprises! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Cap
Mar. 29, 2001, 04:44 PM
TLE: I'm almost 100% positive that the minimum age for advanced is 6. But anybody who's taking a 6 yr. old at that level is definitely pushing too fast

Heyday was bred by the girl's grandmother, and I believe he was always intended to be her mount. But they sent him to Bruce to get the early training on him. Hmmm, wouldn't it be great if we could all send our 3 yr. olds away for training and have them return as Olympians!

And I think it's great that Rosie is still competing in his 20's. Good for him and Rob! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Mar. 29, 2001, 06:26 PM
Maybe it's the breeding, maybe it's the handling, maybe alot of things, but my homebreds are the easiest things to back/break.

I was 6 months pregnant, and working with a 2 yr old, hubby stated--"don't you DARE get on him". Ten minutes later, he looks down into the field where I'm "working" the baby, and I'm on his back walking around. When I started trotting him, hubby casually ambled down and gave me "the LOOK".

I think the whole part of getting a baby on the washrack/trailer/crossties/blacktop/mud/anything, comes from starting early, and not letting them get away with walking over you. I'm implying firm, not abusive. My homebreds are oh so much easier to break than anything that has been sent to me. Trust is the major issue, I think.

B.G.M. heidi
Mar. 29, 2001, 06:34 PM
I hate the fact that the horse community is populated by those who can't engage in the meaningful exercise of introspection, self-honesty, and consideration.

I'm thinking specifically of a woman who owns an absolutely beautiful facility here on the outskirts of Toronto who hails herself as the saviour of the sport -- but who otherwise is the most disorganized, inconsiderate, and, yes, mean,
show organizer within a 500 mile radius of Toronto. Can count on more fingers than I possess the pros who've elected to boycott her shows.

At what point do people like this take a good, long look in the mirror and realize that they're the problem?

D.L.
Mar. 29, 2001, 07:01 PM
I hate to see the "hero" worship!!!! How many of us who have dated, lived with and almost married professionals could ever look at them in that light. They're just like all other men. They burp, don't pick up their socks and the egos...don't even get me started!!! If you take them out of their enviroinment for 5 minutes, would you really find them so attractive? I think not!!

To make things worse, most of them live in this fantasy land and have this "big dream". This idea of being a big hero takes over their brains. Many of them are completely broke, live in their campers ( how romantic !!) and never want to do anything fun because they are always too tired. Look a little closer at some of your heros. Look at the wrinkles from years in the sun, the grey hairs and emerging bald spots, but more importantly, look at the people that they really are!

What's even worse is that some of them have children or worse, wives!!!

done bitching now /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

(Not really male bashing, I love men, really)

PaisleyRioux
Mar. 29, 2001, 07:43 PM
In 25 or so years of riding I've learned that few things last -- friendships, horses, good stables, good trainers. ... So many of us live a month-to-month existence with these animals, be we owning or leasing or simply schooling for a friend. So much about horses is out of our control.

I've been through more barn break-ups than I can count. The ideal situation two months ago turns into a nightmare when the stable owner goes nuts and throws everyone out. Or a divorce ties up the property. Or a disease sweeps the aisles, and no one can afford to keep a sick horse in a fancy show barn. How many times has a dear friend greeted me in the tack room, only to follow her hello with: "Did you hear we're leaving?"

Riding, indeed, has taught me about love and loss -- most distinctly about loss.

Sniff. Pais.

Laura Reed
Mar. 29, 2001, 08:06 PM
The one and only thing I can come up with in the "hate about the sport" category is the long hours. The LOVE ABOUT THE SPORT list is much longer. Why all the B****ING about something we all love?

MsHunter
Mar. 30, 2001, 04:35 AM
I did not imply I had trouble. More of the intent is to be humorous. It takes ALOT of work to start the youngsters, and NO MATTER how much you work with them, you can NEVER trust they will behave perfectly, or you will/can get hurt. I think more the issue is that it is easier to have a barn full of made up ones (schooled, broke, trained). laura is correct though, it should be what we love most, and for me, if I have a year I haven't foaled one, I am miserable. I live for the babies, no question, it is one of the things that keeps me going day to day.

Hardly there
Mar. 30, 2001, 04:40 AM
Jane I wish I could write as well as you /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Your post really hit a mark with me.

I agree totally.

Mar. 30, 2001, 04:42 AM
Thanks for clearing that up. I still love the babies more--lots more humor working around them.

tle
Mar. 30, 2001, 06:36 AM
Cap.... Thanks. I don't know where I got 8... I always thought that was the age, but you're right... for AHSA Advanced Horse Trials, the minimum horse age is 6. For FEI 3-days it's 7.

Didn't know there was a relation involved with Heyday. I'm not complaining... I think it's wonderful that this girl can have such a great horse to compete with. More power to her. Just thought it was a money thing. :-)

Yes, Rosie is still going strong at 21. He and Rob are planning on doing the Training 3-day at Mayfest. Don't think that horse will every slow down. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Mar. 30, 2001, 09:24 AM
what I hate the ABSOLUTE most about out sport is the people who don't reguard their horses as much more than an object---kindof like a dirtbike, that they can play hard on, and if it gets wrecked, it goes to the mechanic, and discarded if it can't be fixed.

I think that those of us who treat our horses as equals, will eventually prevail because we have a happy horse that stays sound.

AsIf
Mar. 30, 2001, 07:22 PM
What I like about this sport: coming home from work in a bad mood, riding my horses, cleaning the barn, and feeling happy again.

What I don't like, at this point, is the 30 year old horse (my daughter's first) that is slowly wasting away in front of my eyes, and there is nothing I can do except make him as comfortable as possible and wait for him to tell me when it is time. After 12 years, it's tough.

dogchushu
Mar. 30, 2001, 07:49 PM
Okay, this is my first post, so please don't flame me!

Hate Most:

+ People whose only riding goals involve winning ribbons.
+ Untrained dogs who run amuck at shows.
+ The schooling ring: pure chaos, pure terror!
+ Getting lost on the way to a show (and having to do a U-turn w/trailer...shudder!)
+ The feeling in my stomach after an entire day of eating greasy horseshow food. (Yup, I know I shouldn't, but sometimes it just calls out to me!)
+ Putting my 34-year-old butt into beige lycra pants and going out in public--to be JUDGED no less! (Yes, another reason not to eat that horseshow food, I know.)

Love Most:

+ Finally getting a new saddle or boots broken in so they feel molded to you.
+ The faces on my fellow riders (esp the kids) when they complete their first course/ride their first canter/win their first ribbon/etc.
+ The leathery smell of tack shops; followed closely by the smell of fresh hay
+ The way my mare stretches her neck, drops her head, and gets droopy eyed when I find just the right spot to scratch (it's soooo sweet).
+ The first trail ride of the spring when the snow clears.
+ Meeting and spending time w/ people who love those great big beautiful creatures as much as I do!

-K-

stephanie
Mar. 31, 2001, 05:37 PM
i'm curious why you "hate" amateurs who think a young horse is 5, not 3...

I have a 5 yo WB who I definitely think of as young. He knows lots of things (WTC jump, OK for farrier and vet, mostly) but he also *doesn't* know a lot of things (how to carry himself, lead changes, having ears clipped, loading onto a big (not two horse) trailer). Since he has so much to learn still, and often does have the personality of a baby, I think of him as young... do you hate me?

Mar. 31, 2001, 06:15 PM
jane is talking about the people who push the 3yr olds into doing a division that their bones/joints aren't ready for--something that they should be doing when they're 5!!!

MsHunter
Apr. 1, 2001, 04:30 AM
Stephanie, Silly Mommy knew EXACTLY what I meant.
One other thing, I never prefaced amateur in that statement. I just hate seeing young (3 yr old and 4 year old 1st year green horses).

stephanie
Apr. 1, 2001, 06:23 AM
SM, Jane... thanks for clarifying. I agree w/you. (and glad I'm not among the class of people you hate! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

(but you did say amateurs: "Amateurs who think a young horse is 5 instead of 3.")

JumpJockey
Apr. 1, 2001, 09:04 AM
I think that instructors/trainers should be licensed by a governing body much like the British Horse Society does in the UK. Agree or disagree? Then certain criteria would be met and standards adheared to.

JumpJockey
Apr. 1, 2001, 09:08 AM
I'm getting concerned that the poll is revealing that the abuse inflicted on show horses is not the main concern -- surely the welfare of the horse is paramount!

HuntJumpSC
Apr. 1, 2001, 12:10 PM
I've got one for ya~ How about those that buy green as grass off the track idiots that have as much suitability as a hunter or jumper as a chihuahua does in a greyhound race. They then proceed to buy all kinds of quick fix gagdets, all the while preaching how they don't like trainers who use gadgets. They baby the horse, allowing it to get away with murder, excusing bad manners & runaway behavior as "he's off the track, he doesn't know any better"...To top it off, everyone that tries to offer good sound advice is written off as an idiot, due to the region they live in (good hunter & jumper trainers couldn't possibly exist in SC, could they?). And last but not least~ they have absolutely no business with a greenie to begin with, considering their lack of experience makes problem horses, not fixes them. Oh, yeah~ and the thing I hate most about our sport: Those who run their mouths, bragging about the big shows they have been to, and how great their trainer is~ when in reality, all they do is make a fool of themselves. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif SUZ

wannabegifted
Nov. 2, 2001, 08:17 AM
Massie did not BUY heyday, her grandmother OWNS the horse, when Bruce was done with him, Massie got him to ride, pretty DAMN lucky, but the girl is so nice and she realizes that she is lucky.

second chance
Nov. 2, 2001, 04:39 PM
i don't really like all of the fashion politics.

I have another vote for Eventing... I only did it for a while, I loved the x-c phase... I have not seen to much of politics there... everybody<majority> is friendly and will tell you if something isn't riding right or if something was getting a bit deep etc.... overall really friendly people!

member of the Vertically CHALLENGED rider clique.

SBT
Nov. 2, 2001, 06:46 PM
Anything else we find unsavory about our sport is secondary to this one issue. Regardless of what discipline you follow, be it jumpers, hunters, eventing, dressage, barrel racing, etc., the A-#1 MOST IMPORTANT THING is to treat our horses humanely. They don't HAVE to jump over anything. They don't HAVE to give you clean changes. They don't HAVE to lead with the forehand in a half-pass. They don't HAVE to do tempis. They don't HAVE to run like hell around those barrels. Imagine if all the horses in the world suddenly decided to go on strike as a result of how badly humanity has treated them. Then what would we do???

Instead of focusing on how our sport is imperfect, let's remember how lucky we are to have these wonderful animals in our lives, and that despite their superior strength (and even intellect at times!), they let US do with them what we please. And they will do it whether it's right or wrong.

Since you all know by now that I am the charter member of the GM fan club, /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif, I will add a quote from his bible...I mean book... /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"To be humane is the greatest gift a horseman can posess."
He will also tell you that the mark of a true horseman is LOVE OF THE HORSE.

If you love your horses no matter what, then what else really matters? Anything else that comes out of your relationship with your horse...like blue ribbons and great rides...is a fringe benefit. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JMHO of course. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Sara

spaz
Nov. 2, 2001, 08:14 PM
What I don't like about this sport: show where there is only one ring and it is really small and everyone is schooling in it at one time!

Add to that the whole 'I can't steer' thing and it's a disaster waiting to happen...

http://jrsclique.proboards.com/index.cgi
Junior Clique!

*What if the Hokey-Pokey IS what it's all about?*

ErinB
Nov. 2, 2001, 08:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Add to that the whole 'I can't steer' thing and it's a disaster waiting to happen... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But at least you live up to your screen name! (perhaps you should share your boo boo with everyone?) /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

~Erin
Be alert. The world needs more lerts.

Dee
Nov. 2, 2001, 09:49 PM
I can't say "hate" as much as amused about:

Mentioned previously, "fashion politics" - what is with the helmet with the chinstrap hanging down to the sternum? The latest "cool" saddle, bridle, boots--all because "everyone" has it(reminds me of a herd of sheep). Being more concerned with "the look" rather than the reason you get to dress like this--the horse.

Fads like the "eq" pose with absolutely no angle to the leg, leaning on the neck and, my big fave, ducking over a 2'6" jump. Please. And oh, almost forgot--the swayback and protruding butt.

Riders who keep a stone face while collecting a first place ribbon. I guess it's to try to make us believe they do this all the time; must be old hat now. If it's that joyless, please try to find something fun. Also, riders who toss any ribbon below second, pout or cry, blame the horse. I love to watch a gracious winner, as well as a gracious loser.

This is another favorite--self-proclaimed "trainers" who don't/can't ride themselves.

And last but not least, I cannot stand to hear riders make fun of someone else's ride, clothing, tack, horse, etc. Very tacky.

lillian
Nov. 3, 2001, 12:45 AM
What I dislike most about this sport? Where in the *ell can you find an honest trainer? One that not only rides well, but cares about keeping your horse sound, understands your financial limitations, organizes a program around your needs/skills, and doesn't nickle and dime you to death. Having ridden western most of my life, I've been appalled about how H/J trainers treat their customers and what they charge. I can't find a decent H/J trainer in the Seattle area that doesn't 1) charge for board and training, that equals the cost of a new car per month; 2) cares about shoeing and keeping a horse sound (sans drugs); 3) gouges the customer for every little thing at a show; 4) actually rides the horse during the week according to the training agreement; 5) gives a decent lesson and doesn't consider such activity an inconvenience; 6) returns phone calls; 7) is available for farrier or vet appointments, particularly if you've given advance notice or your horse needs special attention; the list goes on and on. I'm at the point where I'm going to send my horse to a trainer in Oregon (5 hours from my residence) because I trust this trainer in all matters. It's a sad statement to me that I have to go to this extreme in order to receive what I pay for. We could really use a good trainer in the Pacific Northwest. There's lots of facilities available. Anybody interested?

Dee
Nov. 3, 2001, 05:56 AM
Lillian, I've got one! She's awesome, but you'll have to move to SC... /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Which reminds me of another "thing" I didn't mention above...like you, Lillian, I've ridden Western and English. I was amazed at the power hunter clients give their trainer! When you have to ask permission to get a certain color polos, sell your own horse, etc., it's time to move on.

Bumpkin
Nov. 3, 2001, 11:27 AM
I happen to live in the PNW, and I really adore my trainer. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Sorry I don't see any of the shenanigans you mention at the stable where my daughter and I ride, and I keep the awesome Elliot in training. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I guess if you are so unhappy at the present stable your are at, you should go to another facility. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

OnceAThief
Nov. 3, 2001, 01:17 PM
I had a good, albeit humbling, lesson today so I'm not in a "I hate it all" type mood - so here's what annoys me:

I get really annoyed with how everything develops into a money issue, from either side. I don't care for the people who flaunt the fact that they can have anything that they want and who drop prices in conversation. Your horse cost the same as the budget of several countries - so what? Do you like the horse? Does riding make you happy? That's all *I* really care about.

I don't like how people, when seeing the above, always insist that any talent springs from the checkbook alone. Maybe the person is on a point-and-shoot horse - so what? That person is happy riding, why begrudge them of that.

What *really* annoys me, though, is the other side of things - people who complain and insist that "it isn't FAIR!" that they can't afford things like everyone else. They blame parents, society, whatever, on plotting against them to keep them down and poor while everyone else has everything handed over. There is no reason to blame those who have what you want - there's no reason to develop that hatred, unless you can productivley channel it into working to get there too.

My (slightly hypocritical, I'm sure.. heck, who's perfect?) view is that it just doesn't matter where the money is coming from. If it's coming from your 300 year old name and related perks, more power to you. If you're staying up for weeks on end darning socks for 3 cents a pair to pay for you weekly ride on the Wal-Mart horse, more power to you. It doesn't matter - what matters, when you boil it all down, is that you're enjoying yourself and your horse.

(annnnd back off my soap box to further reflect on my "That was fun.. now where are the brakes?" lesson) /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

InWhyCee
Nov. 3, 2001, 02:13 PM
I just don't get it. I have yet to meet any man, let alone a judge, that can identify fabric at 100 yards. I'm also tired of the whole shirt/ jacket combo question...if it looks nice and covers the key areas, WEAR IT!

I agree that "the swayback and protruding butt" has to GO, especially when Miss Junior Thing has her heels UP in her horses side and her calves are swingin' like a pendulum!

"People... they're so
complicated. I suppose
that's why I prefer
horses."

Drifter
Nov. 3, 2001, 03:07 PM
I would have to agree with "all of the above" with regard to the original question. Like it or not- all of these things very much exist out there
in the horse world and those who try and make light of it or get on their soapbox about "getting a life" are in need of a *reality
check*. All in all, recognizing that all these things do exist, we continue to enjoy the sport with all of its ups and downs (like any other sport for that matter) and I personally wouldn't
trade it for the world. I am hooked and have been
hooked for 30+ years!!!! It is my passion. So I'll
take the good with the bad like anything else, and
fortunately know how to *work around* some of the
other nonsense. That's all!

Fred
Nov. 3, 2001, 04:45 PM
It's not really a "hate" - but it does bother me as a breeder to be 'disregarded' or looked down upon as "less than a professional" when, as Jane said, we're the ones who put our money up front, take all the risk, spend sleepless nights (and perform some pretty harrowing birthing actions sometimes) - then, be the one to put the halter on, teach the baby to lead, tie, pick up feet, load on trailers etc..any one of which could kill you. It's true. and if you survive the weanling to yearling years /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif, then you get to the more 'fun' parts. - in order to produce these lovely horses. Those horses didn't happen by accident - but through years of dedication,experience, study, attention to detail, EXPENSE, sheer pigheaded determination in the face of loss, and the unwillingness to give up.
I've been in a bit of a funk - since Labour Day actually, when I realized that once again summer was over, and I hadn't had ONE DAY OFF, let alone a holiday, in so long I can't remember.
That being said, I LOVE those mares, I love the babies, I'm proud of the horses that I'm producing, and their success in the show ring. I can stand and watch the foals in the field or in the paddocks for hours, I love to see the swelling bellies of the mares, and visulize the baby in there..
and I'm grateful for the kind comments of some people who understand how @#$#*&&^ work it all is!

gets down very slowly, groaning and moaning,
using the hand bar,off her soap box (with running boards), takes a few ibuprofen, has a hot bath and goes to bed at 8pm on a Saturday night. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[This message was edited by Fred on Nov. 04, 2001 at 07:36 PM.]

SuperPony
Nov. 3, 2001, 05:25 PM
hey bumpkin- where DO you ride?

-Caroline
"If I go crazy then will you still call me SUPERPONY!"

Bumpkin
Nov. 3, 2001, 06:05 PM
Farpoint Farm (http://www.farpointfarm.com/) /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

lillian
Nov. 3, 2001, 08:13 PM
I'd love to move but the choices are few and far between in the greater Seattle area. I'm glad to hear that you're happy with your present trainer and with the conditions at your barn. You're lucky. I don't want to use this forum as a place to diss trainers, but suffice it to say, I wouldn't consider your trainer if I made the decision to move my horses to another barn.....

lillian
Nov. 3, 2001, 08:13 PM
Ooops...sorry...the above post should have been directed to Bumpkin....

dublin
Nov. 3, 2001, 10:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I don't want to use this forum as a place to diss trainers, but suffice it to say, I wouldn't consider your trainer if I made the decision to move my horses to another barn..... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

lillian, just wondering why you felt the need to post this statement here, rather than keeping your opinion to yourself?

"Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." - Dennis Miller

lillian
Nov. 4, 2001, 11:14 AM
Dublin: Well, I guess that my opinion would be just as valid as Bumpkin's opinion. I wouldn't be the first person to express an opinion about a trainer on this board. I certainly did not provide details or my reasons for not using a particular trainer. I'm glad Bumpkin is happy with her trainer and experiencing a successful relationship. As we all know, what works for one person may not work for another.....

lilmellow
Nov. 4, 2001, 02:53 PM
Amen! AMEN! I feel the pain /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Rachel O'Hearn

In The Gate
Nov. 4, 2001, 02:58 PM
That you can't trust people to do what they say they will.

I love my trainer though! She's the nicest, most caring person I've ever had a chance to work with. But, I know that a lot of people aren't like that.

Valerie
~VWiles02@yahoo.com~
Valerie's home page (http://www.geocities.com/vwiles02)

findeight
Nov. 4, 2001, 04:04 PM
Strikes me that most are ignoring the corruption that occurs on the top level of all sports. Corked bats in baseball and drugs in football (all sports). When the big money gets involved it does inevitably tarnish whatever it touches. Somebody will always try to buy success.
I do show AA level. Have a wonderful trainer and know of others in area. I do see some things I don't necessarily agree with but they are not abusive and I do see just about all the big name folks. True I would not care to train with some I see but I do NOT HAVE ANY FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE OF ABUSE OR CRUELTY.
One poster asked about the age at which "all" these hunters break down. I don't know. Mines 12, my last one competed drug free at AA level until he was 24. Still lessons at 28. My girlfriend has a 17 year old jumper. Couple of big eq guys through the barn were in their teens. I really cannot say at what age AA level horses break down.Certainly will not speculate about those I have no personal knowledge of because I really do not know.
The elite levels of eventing are pretty tough. Is this the level BBers are talking about? If not comparing lower level events with the AA shows is not an equitable one. Elite level eventers are priced similarly to the AA-elite level hunter. I am sorry but the dressage is a judged class subject to the same judge's interpretation as a hunter round. It can be influenced by who you are, judges try not to but are human.
Finally for lillian. Car payments run about 3-400 a month. Where can you house and feed a horse for less then that? Much less allow a trainer to make a few bucks to support her family off lessons and training.
Sorry if this flames sombody but, although animals of all species sometimes suffer in our society, tired of reading all these slams about stuff and trainers.
I compete AA and love it, yes I whine at times, but love the sport and the level I compete at. When some of you eventers start to reach the top levels you too will whine about the 125,000 horses and having to compete against the Olympic riders. But you'll keep at it 'cause you love it too.

From Allergy Valley USA

PromQueen
Nov. 4, 2001, 04:28 PM
It always bugs me when I hear people say, so and so deserves to win, or I'm glad so and so won, he/she deserved it.....a rider only deserves to win a class if he/she put in the best trip of the day over all, period....not because they were unlucky in some other classes, or because something happened to their horse,or because they are the sentimental favorite.....

Bumpkin
Jan. 17, 2002, 06:56 AM
I hate seeing people riding without hard hats.
That is so dangerous.
And not really fair to the other people riding in the arena with you. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JMHO

Hopeful Hunter
Jan. 17, 2002, 07:52 AM
What an interesting thread. For me, ANY abuse, overtraining, overfacing or disregard of the HORSE part of the riding equation is the cardinal sin. The animal MUST come first, in my book. But after that...

I'm only beginning to peak into the local waters, but the politics are frightening, I'll say. And I have to agree that there doesn't seem to be a huge amount of, well, joy displayed at shows. I've drawn some major stares at schooling shows from both having a cheering section (unasked for, but appreciated) from my barn who whoop it up when I just make it around (I've had some roadblocks in my efforts to show, and they know what it means to me just to survive a round).

And I got some rather condescending and dismissive stares when I embarrased my trainer (who at age 20 rides and looks waaay better than this 37 yr old butt in the saddle) by being delirious with joy when my then 6 yr old OTTB got a 6th place ribbon in his first local show /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif . Couldn't help it -- I was just so proud that this horse that I'd done almost all the retraining on myself had actually been rewarded! YOu should have seen the poor girl duck her head when I went to check the placing for the baby green o/f class and came back with a BLUE ribbon.

But...there were a lot of people, esp. juniors, who just collected the ribbons with no expression. For me, this partnership costs too much in terms of economic, emotional and time investments not to care. And if the hunter shows are so lacking in emotion, no wonder the average middle-class rider doesn't want to check them out!

Bumpkin
Jan. 17, 2002, 08:00 AM
I am right there with you on that!!!
/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
What is up with grumpy, complaining riders?
Don't they realize just how awesome it is to get on a horse and be able to ride /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Pocket Pony
Jan. 17, 2002, 08:10 AM
I hate, hate, hate the people who have horses and don't pay attention to them. I don't care if it is a $500 horse or a $500,000 horse. Why would you spend the money in monthly expenses (and show fees, if that's your bag) to just 'have" something and not pay attention to it?!

Horses are individuals - they each have their own personality with likes/dislikes, senses of humour, trust/distrust, friends, feelings, etc...and I just can't stand that there are people out there who come to the barn to a horse that is tacked up and waiting, they wait for the groom to bring it out of the stall, they get on, ride, don't even cool it out, hand it back to the groom and leave - no "thank you" to the horse, no carrots/cookies/love. THAT drives me bonkers!

~ batgirl - formerly known as splendid ~

tle
Jan. 17, 2002, 09:51 AM
Yeah, I'm bored. Reading old threads and seeing what's new.. but had to respond to this...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The elite levels of eventing are pretty tough. Is this the level BBers are talking about? If not comparing lower level events with the AA shows is not an equitable one. Elite level eventers are priced similarly to the AA-elite level hunter. I am sorry but the dressage is a judged class subject to the same judge's interpretation as a hunter round. It can be influenced by who you are, judges try not to but are human.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

First, have you priced what you call elite levels of eventing? Three-days run 350-600 which includes stabling. Top level horse trials are still under $200 and many are under $200 WITH stabling.

While I will agree that the subjectivity of dressage is similar to that of a hunter round, I think it's "easier" to take simply because there ARE 2 other phases that are not subjective that count towards the final placings. In hunter, that subjectivity is ALL you have.

Also, I competed against an olympic rider at Novice level, and am always competing against someone of that caliber now that I'm at Prelim. Eventing, unlike H/J, does NOT differentiate between ammys and pros except for a few trophies.

If Dressage is a Symphony... Eventing is Rock & Roll!

Magnolia
Jan. 17, 2002, 10:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> No matter how expensive your horse is, how perfectly you've arranged your hairnets, or how highly regarded your trainer, you just can't fake it on the cross-country course (unless you're at baby novice).

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope, even at baby novice you can't fake. I'm living proof.

Anyhow, my pet peeve is how the poor horses are treated. For crying out loud - horses like to get turned out and gallop around the country side, not be kept in a port-a-stall and drilled over the same course every weekend.

But the other thing I hate is people that complain about the sport... if it is so expensive, and stinks so much do something else - don't compete. You'll save a ton of money and agravation.

The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

Magnolia
Jan. 17, 2002, 10:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> When some of you eventers start to reach the top levels you too will whine about the 125,000 horses and having to compete against the Olympic riders. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Generally, horses that can do Prelim, Training and Novice (I'd say prelim is the equivalent to doing the A/O's or Juniors and Novice is the equvalent of doing the Childrens or A/A), cost no where near $125,000. And who (amateur) on the A circuit competes against Olympic level riders?

I know a lot of people that event on this BB seem to do some pretty high levels of competition - they are hardly doing the baby novice at the local events.

That said, eventers are entirely different people that seem to have different goal - almost more interested in the journey than the destination. If I talk to a friend about how their event went, I rarely hear "I got 3rd". I hear how the dressage improved, or about the crazy jump on the cross country course. It seems like hunters are more interested in winning - putting together that winning ride and having what it takes to win. Which is fine for some people.

The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

Nibs
Jan. 17, 2002, 12:51 PM
What I hate most about this sport is how the top show horses are treated. If they get out of their stalls at all, its only for a short time and its alone. What kind of an existance is that? I wish these people would stop thinking about the value of their horses and actually put themselves in their shoes.

Imagine 23 hours a day in a stall, with no contact or socializing with your own spicies, ever. I really wish someone would explain to me why someone would treat a horse this way, because in my opion this should be crimminal.

Okay, done ranting /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Halo Effect
Jan. 17, 2002, 12:59 PM
The $$$$$$ you need, and the politics of them. At the bigger shows it almost seems as though alot of the placings have to deal with politics, you know things like "oh well, I've seen her ride a zillion times, and she's awesome, but today was just one of her off days, I'll give her third" or "I owe so-and-so's parents a favor." I know it's not like that at alot of shows but it just bugs me. And finally if the judge misses something like someone breaking in a flat class (I'm very guilty of this!!! haha, but then I cropped mac and it sounds like someone clicked their hooves so the judge never noticed. But I felt bad actually getting placed in it!). Finally, I just don't like how some people are just stuck up and think they are better than everyone else and then they don't win and absolutely have a fit, and go yell at the judge!! You know what I'm saying?

Catherine the former *bennet&bailey*
~Unapproved Princess Clique~
The perfect hunt horse should" 'Ave the 'ead of a duchess an the arse of a cook"
Ridin Horses is what I love, that's why my Bailey is from heaven above!!

InWhyCee
Jan. 17, 2002, 03:06 PM
... before spending six figs on a "hot" horse and an additional five or six to keep it on "The Circuit" for months at a time, leading unscrupulous trainers, importers, tack shops, and others to view "the sport" as one overrun by deep-pocketed suckers who will spend any amount of money to win a ribbon.

Otherwise, I love it. Can't wait to the day when I can return to the "crappy local show" circuit!

*** "Any ride is good ride provided you dismount voluntarily." ***

Gucci Cowgirl
Jan. 17, 2002, 03:18 PM
I just had to add something...a poster mentioned above that "top show horses" are kept in their stalls 23 hours a day.

There may be some owners like this, but believe me there are MANY "top show horse owners" who believe in turnout.

At my stable we have what some people would call "top show horses", and they get no more special treatment than the school ponies.(Granted they are a little cleaner)

They get all-day turnout, they get to run in the indoor a couple times a week, and have "normal" horsey lives.

What makes me wonder is this: I know of a(H/J) barn where almost ALL the horses have some kind of turn-out boot, be it a bell, brushing, or splint boot. The paddocks are too small for the horses to run in, so why would they need this kind of protection in the first place??

The "top show horses" that are at my stable don't have any kind of protection what-so-ever on their legs, and there is ample room for extreme frolicking in their paddocks...and they never get so much as a scratch,so who is "over-protecting" their horses really??

I think the issue is not about the "show aspect" of the horse, it is about the individual stable.

JMHO

"We imitate the Masters only because we are not yet Masters ourselves, and in doing so, we learn the truth about what cannot be imitated."

moose
Jan. 17, 2002, 04:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Living it Up:What makes me wonder is this: I know of a(H/J) barn where almost ALL the horses have some kind of turn-out boot, be it a bell, brushing, or splint boot. The paddocks are too small for the horses to run in, so why would they need this kind of protection in the first place??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I used to hear about small turn out to contain the horse and not let it run out of control, but both a chiropracter and then a vet have also told me the smaller the turnout the more likely the damage, less room means more sudden stops and rollbacks, more strain and over reaches since the horse will still want to have fun, but will meet a back wall within six strides in some places. Because of this, you'd be wise to protect their legs and some people find themselves having to tranq a horse just for turnout. The problem is there isn't always enough land.

JRG
Jan. 17, 2002, 04:42 PM
I love the sport. All of it. The good, the bad and the indifferent.

All of it has made me the horse person I am today, and everyday I become more educated.

Gucci Cowgirl
Jan. 17, 2002, 05:55 PM
Hmm, that does make sense....

"We imitate the Masters only because we are not yet Masters ourselves, and in doing so, we learn the truth about what cannot be imitated."

To Remain Anonymous
Jan. 17, 2002, 06:23 PM
Riding in the FREEZING winter!!!

And, the "business" side of it. Of course, there are good and bad business people in every field, but most of their "wares" do not consist of living, breathing, amazing animals. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
And, too many people think that they know best. I guess I've realized that as long as the final product is a healthy horse, it really doesn't matter how a person gets it there. Each of my mistakes along with everyone else's I watch, makes me more aware horsewise...and human race wise
/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
Cute topic /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Nibs
Jan. 17, 2002, 06:42 PM
I was so happy to read your post! It seems as if all the A barns I've seen turn their horses out alone and only for a little while, if at all.
I'm happy to know that this is just a result of my limited exposure and not a trend.

It's really nice to hear that expensive horses are still treated as they deserve to be.

I also noticed the overbooting. Alot get four booots on and bells too, but when they get ridden get less.

To Remain Anonymous
Jan. 17, 2002, 06:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>What makes me wonder is this: I know of a(H/J) barn where almost ALL the horses have some kind of turn-out boot, be it a bell, brushing, or splint boot. The paddocks are too small for the horses to run in, so why would they need this kind of protection in the first place??

The "top show horses" that are at my stable don't have any kind of protection what-so-ever on their legs, and there is ample room for extreme frolicking in their paddocks...and they never get so much as a scratch,so who is "over-protecting" their horses really??

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

At a previous barn I've boarded at, the turnouts were small (read: very small). My mare was never crazy out there, always just walked around quietly and because of this, I never booted her. Well, one day something set her off and she kicked through a plank and needed stitches. Had she had boots on, the injury would definitely have been lessened if not completely prevented. So, I guess you just never know! She would've been the last horse you would've thought would've done something like that.

Gucci Cowgirl
Jan. 17, 2002, 07:16 PM
Well, I guss the moral of turnout is this:

You should be protective but not paronoid, and lenient but not lazy.

Does that make sense??

Nibs, yes, I have seen quite a few "TSH's", and they all have normal, everyday horse lives, and are the happiest, most fun-loving horses in the barn.

They can play with the best of them, but when it's time for work, the ones at my barn actually prick their ears when they hear the jingle of the double bridle, and eagerly await their training session.

A few of them here actually reach for the bit, god forbid you make them wait a few seconds to let it warm up!! They want it NOW!! LOL!

Yes, it's a good life for these much loved, and very much appreciated horses...makes me wish I was one of them!

I guess the reason most people have for being over-protective, is that they dont want to see their "TSH's" get hurt. I understand this, but the response to this in my barn is "they are horses first and foremost, and it would do them more harm than good for us to be worrying away at them"

I also agree that safety is important, just as long as it doesnt interfere with the hose's natural desire: freedom!

"We imitate the Masters only because we are not yet Masters ourselves, and in doing so, we learn the truth about what cannot be imitated."

Nibs
Jan. 17, 2002, 07:47 PM
You mentioned a double bridle. Does this mean you are at a dressage barn?

geckoUBC
Jan. 18, 2002, 01:43 AM
Living it Up - what barn are you at? Email me if you don't want to post it. aleesha_gillette@hotmail.com

Just curious!
Aleesha

DRESSAGE, n.: the passionate pursuit of perfection by the obsessively imperfect

Bumpkin
Jan. 18, 2002, 06:45 AM
All the horses and ponies at our stable get turn out every day.
They are rotated each day to a different paddock, and there are no favourites as far as larger or smaller paddocks each day.
Most wear boots or turn-out rugs.

Magnolia
Jan. 18, 2002, 08:01 AM
Do the horses that show week after week in places like Florida get turnout? You know, the ones living in temporary stabling?

The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

KellyS
Jan. 18, 2002, 10:43 AM
About the boot thing...

A few months ago I would have poo-pooed putting boots on horses for turnout...just let them be horses, right?

But my guy (who is retired from showing) scraped the snot out of his front legs playing hard in the pasture at the beginning of this month. He already wears bell boots because I can't afford for the farrier to come out and keep resetting his front shoes.

I spent two weeks nursing the wounds and keeping them clean AND started turning him out in splint boots. And no more injuries to date. While I still believe in letting a horse be a horse, I think that with any horse, taking a little precaution is much better than dealing with a lot pasture damage (and the scars that go with it).

And I won't get started on the comment about whining when you have to compete with Olympic/top level riders. This was my first full year at Novice level eventing and at my first Novice event I competed in a division with numerous trainers who have ridden at Advanced/International levels. I thought it was great - it makes you rise to the occasion. I have always thought that it was kind of funny about all the frustration with shamateurs. In eventing, you just deal with riding with top riders at any level and nobody really complains.

And even the lower level of eventing can be as competitive as an "AA" show. Especially at Novice, where there are many good horses and riders, and the speed and heights haven't weeded anyone out yet. It is VERY tough to get a top ribbon at some of these events and you feel just as accomplished as someone who places at indoors or a top circuit. Believe me, I've done both.

Lucassb
Jan. 18, 2002, 11:08 AM
Magnolia

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Do the horses that show week after week in places like Florida get turnout? You know, the ones living in temporary stabling? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, at almost every circuit show, there are paddocks available which you can rent. Many, many barns take advantage of this. Most will rent a paddock for the use of all their clients and will rotate the horses so that they at least get out to stretch their legs for a bit every day, sharing the expense among the group.

Others will rent a nearby farm in addition to getting stabling at the show, so that a horse who is not showing on certain days can hang out "at home (away from home)" on those days.

BTW, it is also common to rotate horses AT the show - many do not show every week, but go home for a week in between shows, for example, or only do a few of the weeks which are offered. So although "the barn" is in attendance for, say, 5 weeks, some horses will show weeks 1 & 2 and be sent home, and other horses will show weeks 3 & 4.

Appearances can be misleading, and those who view just a snapshot of an A show (or AA) can easily get the wrong impression.

**********
"It is good to have an end to journey towards; but it is the journey that
matters, in the end."
-Ursula K. Le Guin

BravAddict
Jan. 18, 2002, 11:34 AM
...yeah. Maybe it's just because I'm some low-life non-boarder, but I frankly don't like a lot of the people. I swear, I'm NOT that bitter, I just don't appreciate the snottiness.

Oh, that and one time my friend and I were watching kiddy hunters (it was the Folly Classic, maybe? Or maybe it was the one right before the Classic...I forget.) But anyways, this girl goes into the ring on her cute little palomino mare and I almost reached over the fence and wrung her neck. I wanted to scream "BEHIND YOUR LEG YOU IDIOT!" But that wouldn't be appropriate.

Also, lack of clapping. Come ON!! I'm not a boarder. I don't have my own horse. I show in the teeeeny weeeeeny iiiiitty biiiitty schooly-people shows. And trust me, THOSE parents make a LOT more noise than the people at the Classic do. And there are a HECK of a lot more people in the Classic. What happened to good old sportsmanship?!?! This is supposed to be one of the most sportsmanly sports there is, and people aren't clapping?!

Okay, I've said my peice. When I get back from the barn tomorrow, I'll see if I have anything else to add.

Proud supporter of Arabian and Colored Sporthorses everywhere!