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She's Got Questions
Oct. 29, 2002, 04:20 PM
Does your trainer/barn have rules on matching gear?

My brother just bought a pre-green hunter that is in training with a trainer out of state. Apparently, when she picked up the Hanovarian mare and met with my brother, she gave him a list of "requirements" which included certain color and embroidered sheets and blankets, certain color leg wraps, a certain type of tack box, etc. etc. My brother's stuff has compiled into mine over the years and so he needed to purchase all new things anyways, but has anyone else encountered this? Let me give you an example from the list:
REQUIRED FOR EACH INDIVIDUAL HORSE, REGARDLESS OF OWNER SITUATION
...
-1 Medium Sized Warner Trunk with custom panelling (see me about contact ordering info); Triple Crown trunk cover in these colors (A and B, left out intentionally not to have the trainer recognizable) with this logo and (or) monogram. Trunks which owner previously acquired are acceptable as long as: any previous logo panels are stripped and replaced with correct panelling OR (if wood) correct trunk cover is purchased. Note: Must be standard medium sized.

Yikey!

Thanks,
She's Got Questions
{you've got answers}

She's Got Questions
Oct. 29, 2002, 04:20 PM
Does your trainer/barn have rules on matching gear?

My brother just bought a pre-green hunter that is in training with a trainer out of state. Apparently, when she picked up the Hanovarian mare and met with my brother, she gave him a list of "requirements" which included certain color and embroidered sheets and blankets, certain color leg wraps, a certain type of tack box, etc. etc. My brother's stuff has compiled into mine over the years and so he needed to purchase all new things anyways, but has anyone else encountered this? Let me give you an example from the list:
REQUIRED FOR EACH INDIVIDUAL HORSE, REGARDLESS OF OWNER SITUATION
...
-1 Medium Sized Warner Trunk with custom panelling (see me about contact ordering info); Triple Crown trunk cover in these colors (A and B, left out intentionally not to have the trainer recognizable) with this logo and (or) monogram. Trunks which owner previously acquired are acceptable as long as: any previous logo panels are stripped and replaced with correct panelling OR (if wood) correct trunk cover is purchased. Note: Must be standard medium sized.

Yikey!

Thanks,
She's Got Questions
{you've got answers}

Bumpkin
Oct. 29, 2002, 04:26 PM
But why a Medium Trunk?
I thought everyone bought the Large size? /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

DreamBigEq37
Oct. 29, 2002, 04:31 PM
Yes, many large barns have such requirements. And even more have such unspoken requirements.

*~*~Lauryn*~*~*~
<3 Justice Served <3
<3 Nip N Tuck <3

Hopeful Hunter
Oct. 29, 2002, 04:38 PM
and what if someone poor but handy had a lovely trunk, in wood, and made a cover? OR....horrors.....what if someone just couldn't AFFORD to buy all new colors of items?

HOW common is this? And what level/price of boarding are we talking about? I noticed "assorted color" trunks outside the stalls at WIHS, so it can't be ALL "A" circuit barns that do this. I can tell you that I certainly could not afford to replace my horse's tack box (a nice Rubbermaid one, btw) or clothing for any such trivial nonsense as this.

Zoef
Oct. 29, 2002, 04:38 PM
Barns tend to like all of their stuff to match so many pressure you into buying new tack trunks. Having been at a number of barns and dealt with this a few times, I just started refusing. Those things are bloodly expensive - I had nice wooden trunks from one barn that I was at, and after removing the logo on the front of the trunks they did not clearly indicate which barn I had previously trained with. I kept them at barns subsequent to the one at which I had acquired them. Most barns have an aisle in which they will "hide" the non-matching tack turnks.

That said, I finally capitulated and bought new trunks last year when I decided that I was going to be at this barn for a while and my old ones were getting disreputable. If you have trunks with colored panels and you want new colored panels, you can just have the new panels made and that cuts down on the expense. Also, I took a colored panel trunk (green and yello - ick) and had it turned into a wood trunk.

Bumpkin
Oct. 29, 2002, 04:41 PM
I sold my panel trunk and bought a wood and brass trunk. I will change covers if I HAVE to, but I am not buying a new trunk.
But I agree on things matching. It is pretty. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

CBoylen
Oct. 29, 2002, 04:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hopeful Hunter:

HOW common is this? And what level/price of boarding are we talking about? I noticed "assorted color" trunks outside the stalls at WIHS, so it can't be ALL "A" circuit barns that do this. I can tell you that I certainly could not afford to replace my horse's tack box (a nice Rubbermaid one, btw) or clothing for any such trivial nonsense as this.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's quite common. At WIHS, the shipping rules made it so that very few barns had more than one or two horses there at a time, and you weren't allowed any tack or grooming stalls, so there was more than one barn to an aisle, accounting for the "assorted colors", and for "creative" storage solutions /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
At our barn, we encourage matching colors for trunks, and STRONGLY encourage them for show clothes (ie if you don't own the proper color cooler it's coming to the ring wearing someone else's). However, with barn blankets it's not a big deal, and the off color trunks just get hidden in the back. Those things beyond help get accidentally left home until someone gets smart /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

DreamBigEq37
Oct. 29, 2002, 05:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hopeful Hunter:
and what if someone poor but handy had a lovely trunk, in wood, and made a cover? OR....horrors.....what if someone just couldn't AFFORD to buy all new colors of items?

HOW common is this? And what level/price of boarding are we talking about? I noticed "assorted color" trunks outside the stalls at WIHS, so it can't be ALL "A" circuit barns that do this. I can tell you that I certainly could not afford to replace my horse's tack box (a nice Rubbermaid one, btw) or clothing for any such trivial nonsense as this.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The people that can afford to board at these barns to begin with are usually people who can afford to buy all new items

*~*~Lauryn*~*~*~
&lt;3 Justice Served &lt;3
&lt;3 Nip N Tuck &lt;3

dogchushu
Oct. 29, 2002, 05:25 PM
I've heard of this, but it's nothing I've experienced. My barn has colors, but my individual colors seem to be "whatever is on sale." Those people who go away overnight to show pretty much just have stuff that's "presentable." And my trainer is quite adamant that tack and attire will be well fitted, clean, and matching (though she doesn't go so far as to insist tack all be the same brand, you just can't have a "havana" martingale, "honey" saddle and "nutmeg" bridle--unless it's all been saddle soaped enough that it all pretty much looks the same).

Good thing I'm not at one of these top barns! Whatever would they think of my giant rubbermaid? /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif (Although I wonder whether that would be considered "presentable"--good thing I'm not going to any overnight shows yet!)

alirae39
Oct. 29, 2002, 05:58 PM
It is common but usually if you put your foot down they won't MAKE you purchase all new stuff right away. The trainer can also recommend people who aren't at her barn anymore or who quit riding that have used merchandise to sell (especially trunks). ali

RockinHorse
Oct. 29, 2002, 06:08 PM
I know this is common practice at a lot of barns but I think it is ridiculous. I own the horse and I pay the bills so when he goes to the ring he is going in the cooler or fly sheet that are MY colors and I have no interest in buying stuff in someone else's colors (they probably aren't as pretty as mine /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ). Oh well, I guess it is a good thing that I don't ride with a BNT.

~One day my mind just wandered and it never came back~

luckyduck
Oct. 29, 2002, 06:16 PM
We are a fairly large stable with 30 plus boarders and over 100 students. When we first moved here a year ago, all sorts of RUMORS started flying about us. LIKE........... we made our students wear proper attire to school. that we were required to have barn shirts or you could not ride, that we INSISTED that all horses had matching colors....I could go on and on....
When it all comes down to it....if the kids want to ride in sport bras and chaps...more power to them, I am the guilty one of mis-matching polos, as well as taking the kids to the tack shops and buying the most wild patterns we can find!
Matter of opinion...yes....BUT I would hope that any trainer would be more concerned with the horse being comfortable, properly trained and taken care of rather then color matching.
/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

SaddleFitterVA
Oct. 29, 2002, 06:31 PM
Is this just another form of control over the owner for the BNT?

After all, if you just sunk $2000 extra into getting the required equipment and matching trunks, wouldn't that be one more little reason that would make a person want to stay?

Who knows...it probably does look pretty, and full training w/ some of the BNTs is probably in the stratosphere (for me) anyway. I'd say if you are scrimping your pennies to afford your horse, you aren't worrying about sending a horse to a BNT for full training. What would that run? $1000/month training+show expenses+board/vet/shoes? So, to field a horse w/ a BNT runs what? 1500-5000 a month? I'm just guessing, so feel free to correct my guesses.

So, I guess if you are at that level of the game, you just pay up the next level. Kinda like that country club membership where you are required to use $xxx per month at the bar/restaurant and you pay that whether you use it or not.

Flash44
Oct. 29, 2002, 06:35 PM
You would think these damm places would get wise and RENT this stuff to their clients at inflated prices! /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Katie_Rosenzweig
Oct. 29, 2002, 06:36 PM
most everything in our barn matches, like blankets, coolers, trunks, drapes, etc. and if someone has a diff. color trunk or blanket....o well, its easy to get the trunk re-paneled w/o having to buy a whole new one. and for those who already have blankets when they come to our barn, if they dont match who cares, but if you are going to go buy something new, you always buy the barn colors to start with. so my trainer tries to make most things match so it all looks nice.

~*~Rosey~*~
Who's That
Picasso
Code of Honor
Mikhail
http://www.willowayfarm.com

DreamBigEq37
Oct. 29, 2002, 07:01 PM
MAybe it's all a conspirancy, and each barn gets a 10 % commision for every tan and green trunk they sell!!

Disclaimer, that tan and green was JUST an example, am not refering to any particular barn /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

*~*~Lauryn*~*~*~
&lt;3 Justice Served &lt;3
&lt;3 Nip N Tuck &lt;3

enjoytheride
Oct. 29, 2002, 07:03 PM
Questions:

Does your horse have to match the other horses?

Will your horse be evicted if he has *gasp* uneven socks?

Have you noticed that all the other riders have this funny goose step and none of them have new boots?

If this trainer will bring your brother to the top and he can afford it and live with it, go ahead.

SBT
Oct. 29, 2002, 07:08 PM
Why don't barns rent the trunks and misc. gear (and charge you for any damages incurred), or have them pre-made and sell them to customers at inflated prices? ie: "We even save you the trouble of ordering the trunk, paying for shipping, and waiting for it to get here; we already have some available!"

But I think that for the big show barns, matching stuff (or at least sensible stuff, like wood trunks) are important. At my barn, there is a prime example WHY: a boarder, who subsequently sold her horse and all its belongings to the barn owner, had a custom trunk made in NEON PINK /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif with the trim, monogram, and her full name on top IN TEAL. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif I mean, the thing practically glows in the dark. When the barn doors are open, you can see it from the road (approx. 200 yards away) when you drive by! It is blinding to look at, it's so obnoxiously bright. I can't imagine ANY trainer allowing that thing in their tack room at a show, or in the aisle at their barn (at the barn where the horse was previously boarded, the trunk was hidden away in a back garage, with the excuse that there was "no room" in the barn. We thought that was odd until we went to the garage to help her bring the trunk up. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif ).

With regards to the pink trunk, does anyone know where you can order new custom panels, and how much they cost? I know the barn owner is VERY interested in having this done. Right now, she tries to diffuse its glow under a big navajo pad. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

But this is a prime example as to why some people sometimes aren't allowed to have their own custom-colored trunks at big show barns. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

~Sara /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

"If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bull." -Bart Simpson

Member of the Dirt Divers 78th Airborne Unit, ATH Squadron

Merry
Oct. 29, 2002, 07:40 PM
Well, this is a great opportunity for me to vent! /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

My trainer just called to inform me she wants $75.00 up front for "supplies" for the away show (i.e., landscaping) plus $27.00 for my horse's stall nameplate that matches every one elses. Okay. I have umpteen horses that invariably get shown at some point. Can't they masquerade as each other? Like, is someone really wandering the barn aisle reading nameplates? /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Well, wait til my trainer finds out that I no longer have my big Warner's trunk. And the cover that matches her show colors doesn't fit the trunk I AM bringing, so I guess I'll be the hoodlum once again, stuck at the end of the barn, with a wool cooler draped over the top of the trunk lest it upset the barn's feng shui.

I can't wait for show season to be over so I can just ride my palomino on the trails. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

RumoursFollow
Oct. 29, 2002, 08:31 PM
Most of the barns I have been wit in the past few years have required atleast a somewhat matching trunk, and the last oone in VA required matching everything. I got luck in that all of the barns I rode with post-purchase of large ppaneled warnners trunk had basically the same colors. I also own a nice wood oone with a nameplate on it that I use now. I like the matching, I think i tlooks nice.

i apologize for all thetypos- I am havng mucho computer trouble today.

-----------------------------
RumoursFollow
Ten Oaks Farm (http://www.geocities.com/tenoakssc/index.html)
-----------------------------

findeight
Oct. 29, 2002, 08:51 PM
Well I am with an almost BNT who is the undisputed Pony Queen of the Midwest and any new customers are welcome regardless of the color of their blankets, tack trunks, escadrons, coolers or fly sheets.
She welcomes them, their horses/ponies-and their money. Whatever they have is OK. Most change over to her colors as they change pony and horse sizes. Some don't with no penalty. Long as another trainers name is not blazoned across everything.

The Horse World. 2 people, 3 opinions. That's the way it is.

montegobay
Oct. 29, 2002, 09:00 PM
My trainer is one of those who likes to have matching EVERYTHING, but she allows us to do so on a budget. For example, I needed to get some new trunks (mine were old before I left for college, so four years later they are REALLY old) and I actually ended up buying two trunks off of one of the kids at the barn who just left for college (they are only 6 months old...I got REALLY lucky). There are also a number of hand-me-down blankets, coolers, etc. floating around for the small and medium ponies in the barn. As the kids outgrow their ponies, they pass on the goods to the next one in the barn. Additionally, my trainer has a number of coolers, scrims, saddle pads, etc. that she had made and lets us use. She fully understands that all of our pockets aren't as deep as others, so she picks up stuff here and there to help keep down our costs. In this case, I don't think having matching stuff is outrageous, but there are plenty of trainers that aren't as generous as mine. She is also willing to buy stuff still in good condition if someone moves, quits riding, sells their horse, or whatever other circumstance might present itself. So basically, even if you don't necessarily like the colors, you won't be stuck with everything if your situation changes.

Personally, I think the matching stuff is nice, and helps keep theft down (hard to steal something with the logo and barn colors plastered on it). However, I think some trainers do take it to the extreme. Just my personal opinion, though...to each his own.

Katie_Rosenzweig
Oct. 29, 2002, 09:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sbt78lw:
With regards to the pink trunk, does anyone know where you can order new custom panels, and how much they cost? I know the barn owner is VERY interested in having this done. Right now, she tries to diffuse its glow under a big navajo pad. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

if the trunk is a warner's trunk, then you can get the new panels from them

~*~Rosey~*~
Who's That
Picasso
Code of Honor
Mikhail
http://www.willowayfarm.com

Kryswyn
Oct. 29, 2002, 09:22 PM
Burnt down almost, what 2 years ago? (with one of my customer's completed trunks literally ON THE LOADING DOCK as it burned!)

There was talk that 2 of the family members (the 'trunk' son and the widow) were going to start up again, and I believe they did, but I *don't* think it's actually called Warner's anymore. Hmmm maybe I'll do a search and see what I find!

~Kryswyn~
"Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo"

Hopeful Hunter
Oct. 29, 2002, 09:23 PM
C. Boylen writes:
"At our barn, we encourage matching colors for trunks, and STRONGLY encourage them for show clothes (ie if you don't own the proper color cooler it's coming to the ring wearing someone else's). However, with barn blankets it's not a big deal, and the off color trunks just get hidden in the back. Those things beyond help get accidentally left home until someone gets smart [wink] "

C. Boylen, I need to say first that I saw your ride at WIHS and I'm sure you've worked very hard to get there -- you had a great go, and are at a level that I simply can't think of reaching. So, please understand that I mean no disrespect of your abilities, choices or skills, which are considerable and impressive, but....this is just the type of elitism that turns people off our sport.

Really -- not "letting" a horse into the ring because it's cooler isn't the "right" color?! Come ON people -- WHO, exactly, are we trying to impress? Potential clients? Why should YOU have to pay for that?

It's one thing if you want to do it. But to be TOLD, or to be subtly "shamed" into replacing perfectly good stuff that simply isn't the right "style?" I don't know about anyone else, but that kind of happy high school crap annoyed me IN high school, let alone in my chosen, and expensive enough without it, sport as an adult.

I ride because I love horses. I show because I enjoy competing, and because I want to challenge myself and my horse to be our best. Do I buy him unnecessary clothing and accessories? Of course -- he's a princess pony, after all. But do I do it because I need to "fit in?" Given that I showed up at a dressage schooling show - after inquiring of the steward if it was within the rules first - in a leopard print pad and gloves, and show in a velvet approved hat, that's obviously not a big priority.

My horse's care, how well trained he is, how properly he uses himself, how well I ride -- THESE are the things I spend my money on. Not on the right colors to fit in. Of course, I've always been a bit less than fond of being told I HAVE to do something, so it may just be that I'm destined to always be a wannabe, and never a real hunter princess. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

paw
Oct. 29, 2002, 09:40 PM
Count me among the folks who think it looks "nice" if everything is fairly uniform, but is struggling to afford keeping the horse with a LNT and isn't going to replace perfectly good stuff just to fit in.

That said, I _did_ manage to get a nice big wooden trunk for my birthday, so I didn't have to test the waters with my old Rubbermaid gear. :-)

~SC~
Oct. 29, 2002, 09:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hopeful Hunter:

Really -- not "letting" a horse into the ring because it's cooler isn't the "right" color?! Come ON people -- WHO, exactly, are we trying to impress? Potential clients? Why should YOU have to pay for that?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think what Chanda was trying to say is that the horse won't come down to the ring in the non-matching cooler, not that the horse won't be allowed down to the ring. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif At my barn, the trainer has numerous sheets/blankets/scrims/coolers made in the barn colors that everyone uses. But then again, some of the scrims and coolers that we use were won by someone in the barn, so they don't technically "match", but we still use those "ole things" anyways. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

With most of the large A circuit barns that I have encountered, the stuff doesn't match b/c A)people have moved there from other trainers and B)the clients meet up w/ the trainer at shows and aren't in a regular boarding-type situation. Now in the big barns where most people board with the trainer, YES, the stuff matches. But alot of BNT only meet their clients at shows, so the stuff doesn't always match. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Did that make any sense? /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

~Sarah~

~*Southern Comfort*~

justamom
Oct. 29, 2002, 10:05 PM
Order from them, and if you change barns they can redo your trunk to the new barn's colors. or at least all have the same covers!!
_ OR_

sell your trunk/barn color horse clothing to someone at the old barn before you leave and buy new barn colors or buy used from others at the new barn.

I think that the color coordinated trunks and horse clothing looks great! Came from a barn that had all the same sheets and blankets: All monogramed with the rider's name on them (to ease the confusion of all being the same) But it sure looked like all riders were on the same page and were organized at a show. We always shipped to and from the show in white outside wraps and when at the show the outside wraps were navy. Made for a neat/clean look both on arrival and departure as well as thoughout the show.

Bumpkin
Oct. 29, 2002, 10:48 PM
You should try the search, as I believe it was posted someplace.
Or call your local tack shop.

She's Got Questions
Oct. 29, 2002, 11:13 PM
I'm not objecting to this practice, it just seems a bit extreme to me. Luckily my brother is financially able to fufill these expenses, but I can imagine now how difficult it may be for someone who is just trying to get by at the A level with expert training.

I guess I had heard so many "Rumors" about this type of thing (& well, to be honest, seen much at shows) I just didn't really realize it until it hit home.

Thanks,
She's Got Questions
{you've got answers}

Weatherford
Oct. 30, 2002, 02:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> MAybe it's all a conspirancy, and each barn gets a 10 % commision for every tan and green trunk they sell!!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Uh, actually, that is true in at least one barn. A very good friend of mine went to one of the most elite barns may years ago, and when she & her mother got her first bill, they found that they had acquired ALL NEW EVERYTHING - in that barn's colors - without being asked and being allowed to do some price shopping. Yes, they could afford it, but, this was not appropriate to them. Especially when they found the prices were heavily padded.

/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

She also said the bookkeeper at the barn hated billing time because she or her mom would come in a question every odd line item in the bill.... Saved her a LOT of $$$$. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

19 year member of the New Hope clique! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

hedgehog
Oct. 30, 2002, 06:21 AM
I'm sorry but I'd tell the trainer to stick it. Once again, the trainer works for you, not the other way around.

Its not like there is a shortage of trainers. I'd find one that was actually focused on training and not so much as promoting their business to the next client.

Bentley
Oct. 30, 2002, 06:39 AM
but am VERY glad that I'm not a part of one!!

Sure, every time we went to a show I would've loved to have matching everything, but for the price tag it just isn't feasable up here.

Luckily Alberta's pretty down to earth. Most barns try to be decent about it, but it's not to the extremes that I've seen down at some of the big US shows.

We bought trees and woodchips once to go under the 'pop up tent'. All it did was attract dogs, and we managed to kill the poor trees in the first week! Ahhhhh, you can dress us up, but can't take us anywhere! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

caffeinated
Oct. 30, 2002, 07:01 AM
it's just a tack trunk! Personally I'd care far less about the trunk itself than what is IN the trunk.

I did ride at a barn that had extra coolers and such in the stable colors, for big shows, but the idea of *requiring* everyone to get the same expensive thing is just so elitist and ridiculous to me. ugh. Just one more reminder that you can't hope to comepte unless you have money coming out your ears.

**and people say gov't employees are useless... HA!**

levremont
Oct. 30, 2002, 07:10 AM
I really miss about Europ...I grew up in Switzerland and had my horses at one of the VERY BIG NAME barns...yet function always came way above stuff like this. I showed from age 9-18 and never once had to buy matching stuff...come to think of it the only thing that had anything on it was our saddle pads had the barn logo on them. Check out Arron and Todd's barns , whatever works... I am glad I do the jumpers... I do understand that for hunter's, where like it or not a lot comes down to looks and money it does look good to match...

ProzacPuppy
Oct. 30, 2002, 07:41 AM
My jumper is at a barn that is trying to get everyone to buy the "required" list of items. I did- I've been with other trainers who also had such a list (luckily the last one required the barn name, not initials, on the tack trunks so you can sell him your trunk as you exit) so it didn't really bother me- I just sort of expected it from a show barn.

Usually the requirement for a medium is the show trunk, the one that the grooms need to lift in and out of trailers etc. so it has to be fairly portable. The large trunk, when filled is almost impossible for a groom or two to move. Some barns require the large for the home barn and the medium or small for the show trunk.

Also, replacing the panels can cost a couple hundred dollars. It isn't cheap but it isn't as expensive as buying a whole new trunk.

The BNT's that I don't like are the ones (and there are a couple here in Houston who shall remain nameless) who actually dictate what saddle EVERYONE rides in, what stirrup leathers you must have, what gloves, crop, boots, pants and helmet.

I have the bigger problem with the saddle issue as all saddles do not fit all horses perfectly, nor do all saddles feel comfortable to all riders. My daughter opted to walk rather than ride in the saddle he had chosen - very uncomfortable. And she's a jumper, so the "perfect look" is really not anything specific.

If you have a problem with the "matching equipment" requirements, wait'll you get that show bill with an extra $50-$100 or so for "set up" at the show- which basically means the decorating of your common area with plants, tables, photos etc.

ShowJumps
Oct. 30, 2002, 07:49 AM
When I switched from dressage I went to a BNT whom I'd known since I was little (before she was an elsupremeo BNT). After the a few lessons w/BNT I was handed 'the list' (not that I wasn't expecting it). It included everything from the saddle/bridle/martingale to sheets/coolers/trunks/covers. It was easily over $5,000 all together (the saddle alone was $2,000+). This along w/the lesson requirements of at least 4wk (two horses) was going to be tough but Mr Showjumps and I figured we could do it if I bought things gradually, made the boys share clothes and kept trailering in (vs. fullcare/training).

Fortunately it only took a few more lessons for me to decide this wasn't the life for me. It was the utmost in luxury though. I would drive in and unload. My horse would be taken by a groom and tacked up. As soon as I arrived back to the barn a groom would appear and cool/rinse/dry/sheet/wrap/load my boy for the 15 min trip home /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif The lessons were kind of the same way. It was comffy but not my cup of tea.

"Elegance is an Attitude"

Ruby G. Weber
Oct. 30, 2002, 08:44 AM
Prefaced by, I like everything to match.

I give new clients the option of buying coolers, fly sheets, etc. in our colors or using ours, at no extra cost. I'm more than willing to use an owner's equipment at home or in the stable at a show, but when at the ring, I prefer color cooridination.

Another reason I would rather provide the coolers, etc. is I don't run into a problem with a groom using customer A's stuff on customer B's horse. Groom's have enough to do without having to be concerned with whose cooler can go on which horse, etc.

As far as tack is concerned, as long as the bridle fits well and is of nice quality, that's good enough for us. If new tack is needed, I will recommend a particular brand.

The trunks are ours. If a client has one and wants it to go to the show, that's fine, but it will not be front and center unless it matches ours.

Stable blankets are another issue. I do require all horses to have a Baker sheet, blanket and Whitney. With those three items, any horse is prepared for any type of weather.

We appreciate riders who are neatly dressed, wearing clothes and boots that fit, i.e. neither too tight or too baggy. Rider turn out tells us alot.

We appreciate horses who are turned out like show horses, not backyard pets. That includes being properly trimmed, ears, muzzle, legs and manes at an acceptable length lying on one side of the neck. If the horse lives with us, it will arrive at the show properly trimmed, etc. If it doesn't, we expect no less.

We appreciate attention to detail.

However, at the end of the day, the most important part of the equation is that the horse and rider compete successfully.

Flash44
Oct. 30, 2002, 08:48 AM
I think the best trainers would be more concerned about the ribbon colors than the cooler colors. Blue, red and yellow always match. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

J. Turner
Oct. 30, 2002, 09:04 AM
it doesn't matter because I can't afford a barn who would make you do that anyway.

Some people at my barn do it. Some don't. I won't be living in the South long enough to warrant buying everything in their colors. Anyhow, I simply can't afford a trunk. I had mine made by the woodshop department at my school. It's nice wood and very attractive. Unfortunately it's very heavy. When I gave them the measurements, I didn't realize that my trainer has everyone buy the medium sized trunk, for weight purposes.

I do have a problem with the Baker-thing ...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Stable blankets are another issue. I do require all horses to have a Baker sheet, blanket and Whitney. With those three items, any horse is prepared for any type of weather.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not a single horse I've had has fit a Baker blanket or sheet. Those darn things rub their withers and shoulders to death. From a distance, they're attractive, but I really think they're not the best in the world. I rather spend the money and get your colors in a blanket/sheet from the Clothes Horse who'll customize it and it'll at least fit my horse.

I bought a scrim and lightweight plaid wool cooler in my own colors from Clothes Horse. I love them. I'll never be at one of those barns so it doesn't matter.



"And Max said, 'NO!'"
-- Maurice Sendak

*** Member of the Rust Clique ***
*** Member of the Ebay Anonymous Clique ***
*** Member of the MKF (Michelle Kwan Forum)***

hjchik
Oct. 30, 2002, 09:07 AM
I was at a barn where all the clients were expected to have the same items. This trainer would give new clients a list of items that went to the thousands. Unfortunately, the trainer didn't even have her own trunk that matched her people. How can you expect your clients to put out the money to buy all the nice things, when you don't even do it???

Bumpkin
Oct. 30, 2002, 09:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hjchik:
I was at a barn where all the clients were expected to have the same items. This trainer would give new clients a list of items that went to the thousands. Unfortunately, the trainer didn't even have her own trunk that matched her people. How can you expect your clients to put out the money to buy all the nice things, when you don't even do it???<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

DMK
Oct. 30, 2002, 10:19 AM
Ruby and C. Boylen pretty much described how it works at the bigger barns.

You need to consider that trainers are in the business of attracting new customers and in the real world, appearances DO count (do you like shopping in a grocery store that is dingy and disorganized?).

Having a nice, coordinated comfortable front area to your stabling area is the first advertisement you give to any potential clients at a show. And yes, there is a tendancy to go over the top, but that has little to do with the tack trunks and a lot more to do with "landscaping at versailles" as we called it.

As for dress coolers at the ring, that too is advertising. You go up to the ring (especially the hunter ring, where we can hang out for hours /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif ) and you can tell whose horses are with which barns. Kind of useful when you spot an up and coming green horse whose trip you particularly liked...

That said, I ride with a BNT, and didn't have a trunk or cooler in their colors. It never stopped said BNT from giving me my money's worth. It did mean that my trunk was not up in front, but I could honestly care less about that (further to walk to get stuff out). And when I took my horse to the ring, it was in my (non-matching) cooler, if for whatever reasons, one of their grooms took more horse to the ring, it was generally in one of their coolers. Amazingly enough the BNT still showed up to ride and or school, regardless of cooler color.

As for a medium trunk that makes more sense for most large barns. They usually have a couple large trunks to hold all the saddles and tack. Your trunk is mostly for your own personal stuff, and no sense wasting shipping space with a large trunk.

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931)

Dementia 13
Oct. 30, 2002, 10:22 AM
Darlings - don't you enjoy shopping? I cannot wait for my new trunk to arrive!

I know that sounded really shallow but I am kinda thrilled.

Guess I am lucky I like green and tan.

Flash44
Oct. 30, 2002, 10:26 AM
You would think that the trainers would buy coolers and trunks for the shows, and maybe charge the people who go to the shows a fee instead of making eveyone purchase the stuff and constantly be hauling into and out of the barn. The coolers and show trunks would stay packed and ready for shows.

Also, if the grooms were wearing polo shirts or jackets in the trainers colors and logo, the horses could wear the champion coolers they won and people would still know who trains the horse. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Pocket Pony
Oct. 30, 2002, 10:36 AM
My first trainer was a local BNT (or at least trying to be) who insisted that everyone have matching everything. We also got a list of what we were expected to purchase - down to the brand of saddle pad that was to be used. Here's what she wanted:

monogrammed wool cooler
two monogrammed dress sheets
one baker blanket
one monogrammed winter blanket
scrim
beval's halter with brass name plate and matching leather lead shank
brass stall plate
warner's trunk (wood with brass trim and brass barn nameplate)
trunk cover
two white show pads
edgewood or jimmy's bridle and martingale

then you also had to buy (or she just bought and billed you for):

heidi boots - front and ankle hind
two sets of shipping/standing wraps
black polo wraps
baby pads

She preferred a bevals or butet saddle, but I wouldn't go that route. She wasn't very educated nor did she seem to give a crap about saddle fit.
Yet all her horses had to be chiropracted monthly and never improved. Now that Mickey is out of that program and is being ridden in a more correct manner, (and he has his two ReactorPanel custom saddles), he no longer needs to see the chiropractor on a regular basis!

That added up to so much money that I didn't have enough left over for shows (she mandated that everyone go to a minimum of 6 shows) and had to leave the barn...but I still have all the stuff!

"Both rider and horse must enjoy the work. This is the essence of success" - Reiner Klimke

Bumpkin
Oct. 30, 2002, 10:42 AM
Let me know when you have a garage sale /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

SteadyPace
Oct. 30, 2002, 11:09 AM
Well, reading this thread makes me love my trainer. We have a very small show barn, maybe take 5 horses to 3 A shows a year, and all of us are hard working ammies. He's great about not getting too matchy poopoo with stuff. One of the ladies that I ride with had her husband make us all matching tack trunks, we bought matching covers and all have day sheets that match. That's it, that's all. We are pondering getting matching sweatshirts or something but it's a few months off.

There's no way I could ever maintain a horse at a barn that had a 'required' list like batgirls. Not to mention all the fees that are loaded on once you're at the show. Dear lord. :0 Nope, we're a very low key barn that goes to shows, has a blast and sometimes (not often though), even manage to beat riders from those barns with the fancy stuff. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"Friends don't let friends reply to all"

DMK
Oct. 30, 2002, 11:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flash44:
You would think that the trainers would buy coolers and trunks for the shows<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Trust me... they do... How do you think all that day-to-day stuff gets to the shows? The elves stopped delivery service back in the 80's. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Honestly, my trainer must have had 7+ trunks that were used to transport blankets, coolers, pads, tack, saddles, girths, bits and other implements of destruction. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Never mind the grooming boxes and bandage boxes, supplies, supplements and all the other stuff that an owner on full training board should not be expected to lug around in their trunk. Conversely, is it asking too much to ask an owner to have one trunk for their personal stuff and a place to lock up their stuff?

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931)

Linny
Oct. 30, 2002, 11:18 AM
If some BNT wants his (or her) name plastered all over MY stuff, he can pay for it. It's advertising. I don't wear shirts with little horsies or some "designer's" name on them. I'm prime real estate and they should PAY ME.

It looks nice for every horse to match. I work in racing and in the big barns all the coolers, halters, etc match and it looks nice. But LOOKS aren't everything. Is my hunter less worthy because his cooler doesn't match BNT's fancy eq horse's?
Having their colors on coolers, tack boxes and other equipment at shows is simply an advertising gimmick. If they want everything to match at the barn or show, provide covers for tack trunks.
I ride at a barn with lockers, so there are no tack trunks. The barn has nice trunks for showing with the logo etc. They are just inside the barn door and are filled to the brim for shows. After some theft issues, we don't let any of our equipment sit out at shows.


Founder of the mighty Thoroughbred Clique!

Resident racing historian

[This message was edited by Linny on Oct. 30, 2002 at 01:38 PM.]

buryinghill1
Oct. 30, 2002, 11:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ruby G. Weber: ...
We appreciate attention to detail. ...
However, at the end of the day, the most important part of the equation is that the horse and rider compete successfully. ...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nobody does it better than Ruby's mom /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Nobody.

Coreene
Oct. 30, 2002, 11:26 AM
Where the trainer insists EVERYONE get a Hampton Classic. And a year later decides that EVERYONE needs a Pessoa instead. And then EVERYONE needs a Devecoux a year or two later. Then EVERYONE needs a Butet a year or so after that.

And damn me if there aren't lemmings that followed the dance.

CBoylen
Oct. 30, 2002, 11:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hopeful Hunter:

Really -- not "letting" a horse into the ring because it's cooler isn't the "right" color?! Come ON people -- WHO, exactly, are we trying to impress? Potential clients? Why should YOU have to pay for that?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No offense taken at all /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I'll just clarify a little. As Southern Comfort pointed out, I was saying that the horse came down to the ring in someone else's cooler, not languished in the stall until its owner shelled out money for it /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif It's fine to a point, but frankly we have a small barn, and at a larger barn it would be impossible to outfit everyones horse, so I can see places requiring purchases. We have a small amount of 'barn' coolers, but they can't cover everyone, and sometimes client's coolers get used on other horses. Most people want to see their horse wearing their name (in barn colors) so they purchase their own as soon as they can. A lot of this stems from the fact that most of our clients come from other barns, so their 'own' stuff is in someone else's colors, or with someone else's barn name on it. I'm sure you can see why that would be both embarrassing for them and discouraged by the barn.
As for potential clients, yes, that's a big part, but its also for organizational and practical purposes. It's much easier to lose things that don't match, and people are less likely to 'adopt' something recognizable. We do enjoy the look, that's certainly an aspect, but our clients also expect a certain atmosphere, and so do potential clients of the sort we want to attract. I personally take a lot of pride in my barn, and have put a lot of work into it, even though I am just a client, so I try to help promote it as best I can. A lot of that attitude comes from the fact that I've been here for over 12 years, but I think being a part of a barn is taking on a certain responsibility to uphold its standards. I also would feel somewhat uncomfortable about expecting my trainer to pay to outfit my horses, or hogging the resources available for the barn as a whole, as some people have suggested 'communal' equipment. That works fine when everyone has one or two horses, but would be unfair here when two customers have 5 horses each, and there's another with only 1. Also, all of our clients are also boarders, and self-care is not an option, so our system is really tailored for our situation. I certainly can see everyone else's point, but this is how it works best for us /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ProzacPuppy
Oct. 30, 2002, 11:51 AM
Of course, it is all a moot point with some BNTs, such as one here that actually told me- "No one gets into my barn with less than a 6 figure horse..." which sort of makes $5000-10,000 of tack and equipment seem like change.

lonewolf
Oct. 30, 2002, 11:52 AM
They don't pressure anybody into buying anything (and yes, we do the A's). If somebody needs a new item, they may recommend a new one similar to theirs, which usually come in the barn colours. These items are high quality and affordable, and, once again, there is no pressure. I think it looks nice to have everything matching, but my coaches recognize that it isn't fair to impose the added expense on the clients, nor is it their place to.

My former barn *strongly* suggested certain brands of goods, and most people went along with it. They may have put up with non-approved items if the client was wealthy enough to dictate their own preference, but, like I said, nobody challenged this. (They were, however, quite lenient towards non-show clients). One reason for this insistence was that they had a discount at the local tack store. The other was prestige.

Frankly, I think the trainers should let the skill of their riders speak for itself. I have yet to find a fancy-shmancy barn which provides nearly the quality of instruction that mine does.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
He who claims to have made a small fortune in the horse business probably started with a large one.

VTrider
Oct. 30, 2002, 11:53 AM
I don't have any fancy schmancy coolers in my trainer's colors or barn name - but I do have a tube top with the farm's logo on it that I proudly display at all the summer shows. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Silver Bells
Oct. 30, 2002, 11:59 AM
It is nice when you are given the option of purchasing barn items. I have moved several times over the years, and have an extensive collection of coolers, anti-sweats, sheets, blankets, escadrons etc..... My trunk however has lucite panels that can be changed with a phone call.
I am really against trainers that just automatically order everything without notification. The items just appear on your bill.

Willem
Oct. 30, 2002, 12:00 PM
/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

------------------------
I haff sayed this be fore, I be ein German horse und this it be straight from mein mouth.

Sea Urchin
Oct. 30, 2002, 12:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VTrider:
I don't have any fancy schmancy coolers in my trainer's colors or barn name /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's because your trainer doesn't want people to know you ride with him, don't you think? /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

b328
Oct. 30, 2002, 12:05 PM
VTRider, your trainer must be so proud! I am going to suggest this to my barn. Maybe we can order them for Christmas this year! It would look so fantastic in one of those pairs classes; I can see it now, matching chestnut horses, TS with field boots...and tube tops! Our farm colors are black with grey trim and burgundy piping, but that is too plain. Maybe we could substitute silver for the grey, then we'll be in action! Must make sure to get a mullet before hand so I can have the mullet hair hang out the back. Everyone would remember our farm then!

BB
Oct. 30, 2002, 12:21 PM
Don't forget the monogrammed thong hanging out the back of your TS! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

caffeinated
Oct. 30, 2002, 12:29 PM
I think why this whole thing bothers me is because it's accepted that the look is partially to attract a "specific type of client" to the barn, or to satisfy that "specific type of client".

And knowing that I can't afford that kind of stuff makes it painfully obvious that despite my skills I would never be welcome in such an environment. And I hate that, because it makes me feel like I don't have a chance to succeed no matter what I do, because the good training is out of reach. And strange as it is, THAT's what I think of every time I see a perfectly coordinated showplace of a tack stall at a big horse show. Strange, isn't it?

Anyway, to each his own, I guess. But personally I'll stay away from monogrammed thongs, and in the future I won't care if people in my barn match my wacky interior design preferences.

**and people say gov't employees are useless... HA!**

EventerAJ
Oct. 30, 2002, 12:30 PM
Wow, I just read four pages of this.
I like being an eventer. Everything is in MY colors! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (and if it was on sale, who cares about color anyway??) /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


PS- I used to be at a very nice hunter barn. Matching stuff was encouraged, but not required. It did look nice.

~AJ~
"Got no excuses for the things that we've done; we were brave, we were crazy, we were mostly young." K.C.

VTrider
Oct. 30, 2002, 12:40 PM
How many blue ribbons have you won this year?

b328
Oct. 30, 2002, 12:40 PM
Well BB, I thought everyone knew about that requirement, so it didn't even occur to me that I needed to mention it. Who would wear their thong any other way? In my barn, we are now emulating Christina Aguilera for our show and schooling gear. I saw the way she wore her chaps in her new video and it SCREAMED class. If that doesn't attract a certain element to the barn, I don't know what will.

On a more serious note, matching coolers, etc. is encouraged at the barn where I ride, but not required. We, trainer and all, moved from a different farm a couple of years ago. So, the clients who moved have the old colors, while a lot of the newer clients have the new colors. And our trunks are all different, so the two barn-owned trunks are displayed at shows while the others are just put out of the way but handy. We even *allowed* (totally joking tone) a rubbermaid trunk &lt;gasp&gt;!

caffeinated
Oct. 30, 2002, 12:46 PM
The Aguilera look is totally in. I would totally ride somewhere that encouraged thong + chaps with nothing in between!

Especially if offerred in custom colors.

**and people say gov't employees are useless... HA!**

BB
Oct. 30, 2002, 12:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I would totally ride somewhere that encouraged thong + chaps with nothing in between!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ouch /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

b328
Oct. 30, 2002, 12:57 PM
Thong and chaps and nothin' in between...can you imagine how that will look on the male members of the horse scene?

Young man, there's a place you can go!
Let's go to the YMCA!

BB
Oct. 30, 2002, 01:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Young man, there's a place you can go!
Let's go to the YMCA! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL - the mental image is priceless!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

buryinghill1
Oct. 30, 2002, 01:17 PM
Uniformity has a lot to do with keeping up morale, and standards. Think of the military - how organized would it be if you could wear what you want. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
Of course, a stable is a public situation, not the cavalry, so matching ain't a big thing. It does look nice, and gives you the feeling of being part of a "team" though. Even if it's only matching tshirts with logos. Just look at the "Nascar" skit at Washington. Kinda cool for the people to dress the same - and have coolers that match! Doesn't hurt to have sponsor logos plastered all over you - paying for the whole team! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Jo
Oct. 30, 2002, 01:21 PM
I had actually typed out and almost "posted now" this topic a few days ago. I was thinking about the fact that all the stuff I have accumulated for my horse was in "our" barn colors. My first barn, where I was when I purchased Miss Mare, had colors of hunter and tan. We were "encouraged," but not required to buy things in those colors. I ordered a Triple Crown blankie for Miss Mare, and it came in and didn't fit. (Funny how those custom orders work.) So, I went and picked up a black and hunter Weatherbeeta at the tack shop.

Low and behold, 6 years later, I am still buying things in black and hunter. I think it makes it look nice to have *your* things matching, but I'd seriously have to think about moving to a place that requires 5 million items in a different color scheme - especially since I don't show.

My trainer's "colors" now are black, royal, and white, and if we ever get to the point of having barn jackets or anything of the like, I'll get that. But NOT a new tack trunk, blankies, etc -- not that she would ever, ever require that sort of thing. Poo poo to that! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"You might think there would be an explanation for this... but you would be wrong."

VTrider
Oct. 30, 2002, 01:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by b328:
Must make sure to get a mullet before hand so I can have the mullet hair hang out the back. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since you don't know me - I will give you some slack - but here is a picture of me that the show photographer from Culpeper took in August.

b328
Oct. 30, 2002, 01:30 PM
Thanks for posting the mullet pic! Now I have something to take to my hair dresser so she understands exactly what I want. Wow, this BB really is a great place. One final thought about the Christina A. style chaps, can you say Inverness problem?

DMK
Oct. 30, 2002, 01:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by goldentoes:
I think why this whole thing bothers me is because it's accepted that the look is partially to attract a "specific type of client" to the barn, or to satisfy that "specific type of client".

And knowing that I can't afford that kind of stuff makes it painfully obvious that despite my skills I would never be welcome in such an environment. And I hate that, because it makes me feel like I don't have a chance to succeed no matter what I do, because the good training is out of reach. And strange as it is, THAT's what I think of every time I see a perfectly coordinated showplace of a tack stall at a big horse show. Strange, isn't it?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Goldentoes, I think that is a pretty human reaction, because every day of our life we have to struggle with what we cannot have, or cannot achieve (welcome to Life. She's a Bitch, by the way). I guess you do the best you do, and keep trying, but I would never assume you can't have access to the good training. There are quite a few of us who ride with very good trainers. Yes their lessons cost more (and there is a reason why), and most trainers worth having will meet you at the ring if you can't afford to train with them on a regular basis.

I guess my attitude about "the look" everyone is going on about is that this isn't a whole lot different from department stores. Tar-jay and Walmart have a whole different look from Nordstroms, which isn't exactly Needless Markup (aka Nieman Marcus), and none of them come close to the shops on Worth Avenue or Rodeo drive. But all of them present their merchandise in such a way as to attract their target customer. Nobody thinks it is such a big deal, right?

I don't shop on Worth Avenue or Rodeo Drive. Either I couldn't afford it or I'm not willing to make the sacrifice. But I sure don't begrudge people who do shop there. I don't think they are better than me, nor do I think I am better than them because I don't "waste my money" there. Ditto for certain trainers and their requirements.

And bottom line, there are things you can get at each of those stores that the next stop down the economic scale does not provide. If you want a really nice suit that is elegant, timeless and made out of quality materials then you will probably not find yourself at Target if you can afford otherwise. If you can go to Nordies and get a nice suit, or go to Worth Avenue and get a beautiful cocktail dress, more power to you, babe. Just as long as you don't think you are God's Gift to the Universe because you can. And vice versa. If you walk around in your Walmart clothes feeling all smug and full of yourself, and telling everyone you are smarter than Jane Doe who paid twice as much for a sweater with a logo on it at Nordies, you don't impress me as much of a person worth knowing either.

Now excuse me, I need to go put my Walmart sweat pants on while I go out and buy another lottory ticket so I can replace this stuff with some Worth Avenue Specials. /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif Or maybe just buy poor VTrider some real clothes... /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931)

VTrider
Oct. 30, 2002, 01:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DMK: Or maybe just buy poor VTrider some real clothes... /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif As if you've never shopped at Fredericks' - please. I do believe you are known as Dominitrix DMK there. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

cookiesncream
Oct. 30, 2002, 02:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TXJumper:
Of course, it is all a moot point with some BNTs, such as one here that actually told me- "No one gets into my barn with less than a 6 figure horse..." which sort of makes $5000-10,000 of tack and equipment seem like change.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Having an expensive horse doesn't mean that you are swimming in money and just want to throw it away on different colors of equipment you already have. I own a horse in that price range, but it was a decision to invest money in the part of horse showing that is most important: the horse.
My horse is with a BNT, but I was never required to buy everything in barn colors. However, this was probably because my trainer does not normally have clients that actually ride their horses, so he was just used to using all that barns stuff on all the barns horses, and so I showed with him for about 2 years, and my tack trunk was literally never opened except when I opened it. That being said, I do think it looks very nice for a barn to have everything matching, and think it is completely exceptable for a trainer to "hide" things that aren't matching. It really doesn't matter what kind of sheets a horse has on in the barn, but, when going out to the ring, I think horses should either be in barn coolers, or coolers that have been won and look nice. (Of course, it's even nicer if you win a cooler in your barn colors;) ). People on this BB often assume that those with expnsive horses or expensive trainers are willing to stupidly throw money away. This is totally not true. We pay for expensive horses and expensive trainers because we have decided that having a quality horse and quality instruction are of the utmost importance. I don't regret making that value judgement, even though I currently have to sell my horse primarily for financial reasons....it was worth having him and training with a BNT for that time, even though it was limited.

Kathy

drifting cloud
Oct. 30, 2002, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by EventerAJ:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Wow, I just read four pages of this.
I like being an eventer. Everything is in MY colors! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Amen, sister!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

All of you hunter-jumper folks who are teed off by this topic (and rightly so!), come on over to the eventing world. No one gives a sh*t what color your stuff is or what brand it is.

"You're only young once, but you can be immature forever!"

SillyHorse
Oct. 30, 2002, 02:17 PM
Wouldja just LOOK at those shoulders! I'm in love. /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

SillyHorse
~ I do whatever my Rice Krispies tell me to.

Tackpud
Oct. 30, 2002, 02:19 PM
VT - Great picture! ROTFLMAO!!!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BB
Oct. 30, 2002, 02:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Since you don't know me - I will give you some slack - but here is a picture of me that the show photographer from Culpeper took in August. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL...that picture almost made me fall off my chair!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

ProzacPuppy
Oct. 30, 2002, 02:44 PM
I came to HJ from Eventing and so everything was "stranger in a strange land"...

Kathy- The BNT who made the comment about expensive horses did it because he DOES expect his clients to spend a quarter mil on the horse plus everything else - like the winter at Indio and the Summer at Spruce.

I went to a 2 day local show with him and it cost me over $1500 just for his fees (food hotel training etc.)- not including actual show fees for the horse such as stabling, classes etc. He did expect you to be made of money and he did expect it to flow in a never ending stream. And from his comment and the way he said it, I knew exactly what he meant. We left.

EqChick
Oct. 30, 2002, 02:55 PM
This is an interesting topic. I've never trained full time with any BNT, but have seen lots at shows, and I have to admit that barn turnout does say a lot. (I am actually guilty of waiting to train with someone until I see them at a show - mostly to see how their students do and how they deal with their students - but the barn always comes into play.) PLEEEEEEEASE don't hate me for that - I don't go looking for most $$ barn to ride at, cause frankly I've turned down a lot of those and have NO money myself so couldn't ride at them if I wanted to anyway - so don't get angry.

Anyhow - now that you know I have no money, but still sincerely like the polished, clean, put-together look of matching barn colors (and that I admittely have an extreme fetish for manograms), I'll share some of my tactics for meeting in the middle:

As far as trunks go, I have never had a nice show trunk cause I've never had the money. I have borrowed trunks for shows from trainers, barns, other students, and shared a trunk before. (really not a big deal if you don't mind sharing grooming eqip.) I owned a really nice wooden trunk for a while and just bought a different cover for new barn. If you get the zip-top covers, you'll never know the difference.

For blankets - I have borrowed also - sometimes to take to shows, sometimes borrow long term if someone has an extra (usually a wealthier boarder who has old one with old show colors /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif). I just have to fold it up and put it away instead of hanging outside the stall at shows.

For sheets, I usually just borrow one from someone who's not showing that weekend. I've also had trainers who have a half-dozen or so show coolers and use them for everyone to and from the ring. (I've found that some trainers do it just to keep track of the horses. Esp. big sales barns where none of us could be counted on to be able to recognize every horse from memory.) It does look really nice - and it's fun, too, once you develop sort of a barn comraderie. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I have not heard of requiring specific brands of tack - that one's a little past my world of experience. I do know many, many barns that only let you use leather halters, or the nylon/leather tipped ones - purely for safety. I even know places that make you hang the halters a certain way (not by crown, but pinch two cheek ring pieces together and hang by metal that way).

If any of you know me, you know I'm a freak about being clean and organized at the barn. I'd like to thank RolexH, my barn cleanliness mentor, for teaching me the halter hook idea - my first *real* trainer (who will remain nameless) for throwing a certain type of old boots into the trash in front of me and teaching me how to put my hair up - the trainer I was a working student under who wouldn't let me in the ring unless SPOT-LESS, and wouldn't let me go home unless stalls were SPOT-LESS (and teaching me why the two are equally important).


Okay - last note on requirements: the only thing that I really don't like is when trainers assess a "decorations" fee or whatever it's called for the front of the tack stall - planters, wood chips, drapes, etc. That one really is advertising, and I think should be a barn expense. I don't mind contributing plants - or letting them use my trunk in it (the nice wooden one before was all the time, and I had to schlep up to the end of the barn every time I needed a hoof pick). That would be like asking boarders to help fix the truck - PLEASE don't tell me you've heard of that!

On colors: I have found that if you don't put your personal monogram on barn-colored things, you can usually sell the stuff to other boarders used when you leave. I have bought show stuff from exiting boarders before and just ignored the monogram, then sold it again when I left. I've even sold stuff to the barn when I left.

Anyhow - I'm basically am saying that I completely understand the matching and approve - within reason. I think a certain level of flexibility is necessary, too (esp. with new boarders), and cooperation (if your cooler that's the same as everyone else's end up on another horse, don't freak).

Have to say, though - I think I'm going straight out for my own monogrammed thong for the next show. How else to tell everyone that they should want ME on THEIR horse? /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif They'll be lined up at the in-gate....

/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

So tell me again how the 40 Hour Standard was created? I think my boss was busy...

DMK
Oct. 30, 2002, 03:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VTrider:
As if you've never shopped at Fredericks' - please. I do believe you are known as Dominitrix DMK there. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh please... that wasn't until after I had been granted access to your lifetime platinum membership with Fredericks... /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931)

peepie
Oct. 30, 2002, 03:22 PM
And most who ride w/ BNT DO HAVE lots of $$$ (generally speaking, I know there must be exceptions) and can afford the matching ensemble. BTW, Warners will sell new panels if you need to switch to another color/monogram....
And that was a GREAT idea about the rentals! I ought to go into business myself around here...hmmmm.

***My horse bucked off your honor student!***

~~LOFL (lawn ornaments for life) clique~~

Hopeful Hunter
Oct. 30, 2002, 03:39 PM
I think a lot of what truly gets to me about this "all matching" thread is not even so much the cost, as to who is bearing it and why.

I can understand a major show barn wanting their horses to look good at the ring. Having once actually not been able to tell my own horse from the hundred other hunters, I can also understand why having a certain cooler on them helps more quickly identify the beasts. BUT, what annoys me is making the CLIENTS pay for the privilege of making the barn look good.

I know barns this fancy cost a lot of money to board at -- many are near $1000 a month, no? SO...at that price...in my mind the BARN can afford to have a cooler for every horse and a cover for every tack box that THEY have purchased and own and not require the riders to do it. They know how many horses they can have, maximum, at any one time.

Buy the coolers and the covers, write off the expense, and make your clients feel even more special. What would it cost? A couple of hundred dollars one time fee? Think how much more "pampered" clients would feel to have that done "for" them. Heck -- if you REALLY want them to feel special and part of the team, GIVE them a jacket or such with your farm logo embroidered on it as a "welcome" gift!

I have no problem with taking a horse up in the barn's formal cooler - with the barn name and location even embroidered on it - instead of one the owner may have and use at home. Or with covering all tack truncks with barn covers, and tucking the ones that don't fit under the covers quietly out of sight. I DO have a problem with making clients pay to advertise your business when you are already charging significantly more than others in the business. That's not only paying Worth Avenue prices for the quality -- it's being made to wear your Prada with the Store's logo sewn onto the back of it, too, for the price! If I choose to buy "designer" outfits or services I don't mind paying the price. But don't then expect me to pay an additional fee to "buy" a shopping bag with your logo on it to transport my purchase home!

I can certainly understand goldentoes comment about being made to feel very clearly "unworthy" and excluded by the look of the barns. And, sorry, but ti does make people like me wonder if I could ever even be WELCOME to train with the people who show on the big circuits. It certainly doesn't sound like it -- one look at my old Suburban and POS trailer, and the dog collar that replaces the lost front strap on my shipping sheet and from what this thread seems to say I'd never be asked back.

It's really a shame to see this emphasis on style, because it really does put people off and create a sad sense of separation and distance between people who probably all want the best for their horses. Personally, I want to see not just who's winning but whose horses are going the best, soundest and happiest, and whose riders actually *gasp* appear to be having fun and caring about their horses. THAT is what will attract me to a barn, not their stall display.

Of course, given that I'm very unlikely to be the "particular type of client" (especially with my OTTB, my transportation and my passion for leopard schooling gear) that the fancy barns like C. Boylen's want, that's probably not a real concern for any of the trainers out there.

/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

elizabeth
Oct. 30, 2002, 04:17 PM
Let's be honest - we all spend a lot on our horses. Investing in a cooler, a sheet, a blanket, a trunk - yeah, it adds up, but, for most of us, I doubt it would financially be a big disaster to have to spring for yet more stuff.

My personal reason for not buying into it, then, is much more practical: It is my horse. I am paying the bills. Why would I pick out stuff for my horse that I, personally, am not fond of?

One barn I was at had brown and white as the barn colors. Oh DEAR GOD, if the trainer (who is not a BNT) had insisted I get brown and white stuff, I would have wept. I don't LIKE those colors.

So, as un-exciting as it is, I suspect that many of us would balk just because it is FUN to buy your horse stuff, stuff of your own choosing. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hopeful Hunter
Oct. 30, 2002, 05:08 PM
Actually, it IS the money, and the control, and something else that I really object to.

This thread has really gotten me annoyed (as if my voluminous posts didn't show that &lt;grin&gt; ) and has made me ask myself WHY I find it so upsetting. This is what I've come up with so far:
* The idea of being treated like a sheep who will pay an additional fee to advertise a service I'm ALREADY buying at premium prices frosts me.
* The idea of ANYONE dictating to me how I can adorn my own animal, and what style container I can use for my own property, is unacceptable. (Yes, I'm REAL big on personal liberties, and also responsibilities.)
* The elitism that is engendered in the idea that "this attracts the 'right' kind of client" pisses me off.
* The way that this kind of practice just totally exludes people who haven't got that much money, may be on a budget or may just have personal preferences (for color, for blanket brand, for whatever) is anathema to me.
* The sense of classism and discrimination this creates - even among people in the same discipline - is very sad and angering to me.

This "you must match and you will pay to do so" concept brings back twinges of the way some curators viewed the artworks and the visitors at some museums I worked at. They would all get upset if the visitors got animated or loud in the galleries. Not because it was a danger to the art, but because they thought it "unseemly." Bullfeathers. I LOVED it when people would talk about the art, when kids would get excited enough to shout and rush to see a painting -- that meant they were engaged. But that wasn't the IMAGE of a proper, educated, usually wealthy, usually white donor or visitor, was it? And that attitude went over as well as the matching tack does with me.

Let's face it, many if not most of us who are hunter riders and show would LOVE to be able to have the horse and the skill to qualify for Indoors and do the big shows. Even if we know it's not something that likely to be a reality, we'd like to think that it COULD be possible with a lot of hard work and a little luck. And at whatever level we're at ourselved, we'd like to think we do a good job and present as nice a picture as we can within our personal limits, budgetary and otherwise.

I don't know about the rest of you, but the idea that I "can't" make it to the big shows NOT because of my horse or my skills but because I can't afford the "right" accessories on top of all the other necessary costs just isn't acceptable to me. And I don't like having to confront what is at the least an appearance of a haughty attitude to even approach the top.

As you can probably tell, I'm not wealthy. I'm an adult amateur with a spouse, and while we are comfortable, I cannot afford to spend what many people make in a year on my hobby. I'm not someone easily intimidated by "class" or money or power -- I went to a very wealthy private school (on scholarship, but that wasn't known) and have been to a number of so-called high society affairs, and even Washington Embassy parties and such. I've sat with business leaders, major political figures, even some duPonts at lunch and dinner and comfortably chatted with them all.

Yet the upper levels of the hunter show world put me off, and DO make me feel uncomfortable. It's things like this, things like the dismissive comments about certain types and colors of clothes, etc. that make me hesitant. I learned long ago that money does not equal good manners, and I frankly fear that I would NOT be greeted with a welcome or good manners in many of the upper level barns. It's almost the same thing as local riders thinking of going to rated shows -- there's very little to welcome them in and make them feel comfortable.

And that's sad. Because at some point, the great middle will be needed by the upper ends. And without having made those people feel welcome, the support won't be there.

Flash44
Oct. 30, 2002, 05:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by b328:
Thong and chaps and nothin' in between...can you imagine how that will look on the male members of the horse scene?

Young man, there's a place you can go!
Let's go to the YMCA!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

b328 - you are playing bingo with one too many digits! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

elizabeth
Oct. 30, 2002, 05:27 PM
. . . Hopeful Hunter, that if you re-read my post, you will see that you and I more in agreement than disagreement. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Flash44
Oct. 30, 2002, 05:28 PM
I have coolers, I have blankets, I have scrims, I have trunks, I have tack, plenty of clothing, etc. I'm not buying more (unless it is on sale /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. I'd rather put more money in my mutual funds while the stock market is having a sale. Besides, just because someone or a business looks good on the outside doesn't mean they are solvent on paper.

DMK
Oct. 30, 2002, 05:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> * The idea of being treated like a sheep who will pay an additional fee to advertise a service I'm ALREADY buying at premium prices frosts me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't get this part. My stuff doesn't advertise anyone's name but my own. Other than the color, the advertising that gets done is your own name.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>* The idea of ANYONE dictating to me how I can adorn my own animal, and what style container I can use for my own property, is unacceptable. (Yes, I'm REAL big on personal liberties, and also responsibilities.)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would agree with you. Fortunately the trainers that require that you have stuff in their colors are pretty far and few in between. Most request/prefer that you do. But I would suggest that if you don't like to be told what color to buy, try another trainer. It's not like you would be limited in your choice by this requirement.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>* The elitism that is engendered in the idea that "this attracts the 'right' kind of client" pisses me off.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So what is your take on Mercedes, Ford, Mazda, Nordstroms, Godiva, Nestle, Prada, Keds and even *gasp* WalMart. Because gearing presentation (marketing) to attracting/keeping the right kind of client (aka "target audience") is pretty much the sole goal of their advertising and marketing departments. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>* The way that this kind of practice just totally excludes people who haven't got that much money, may be on a budget or may just have personal preferences (for color, for blanket brand, for whatever) is anathema to me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know too many people who rode on "cheap" horses with no fancy tack/matching stuff (or maybe just no stuff at all) for too long (myself included) to place much stock in this. You "belong" if you want to belong. All the fancy crap (or lack thereof) won't change that.

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931)

Tinkerbelle
Oct. 30, 2002, 05:40 PM
Hopeful Hunter - not all big name barns are that ridiculously snobby. Most of the ones I have known and shown with including my current one are not that way at all. They welcome people and there are very rich and not rich at all that show with them.

No matching polo shirts. No thank you, I do not wish to look as though I am in military.

Thongs and chaps? No!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ShowJumps
Oct. 30, 2002, 05:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> It is my horse. I am paying the bills. Why would I pick out stuff for my horse that I, personally, am not fond of? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For years this was the excuse I kept giving to my trainer. Who isn't a BNT but excellent all the same. She would love clients to have matching gear but didn't require (or actively encourage) it. Her colors are royal and white (how icky seventies... /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif ) and I haven't exactly been quiet about my opinion of them! Like many of her clients I kept the colors from my old barn (tartan plaid).

After I sold Ordained I decided to bite the bullet and get Mardi a new set of show clothes in the barn colors. After some discussion I got my trainer to let me add grey (and a little black) accent to the colors and voila! It's instantly fashionable looking and no longer hideous. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Everyone loves the new combination and now my trainer is quite actively encouraging clients to buy anything new in these colors. Sorry guys! /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Ebay was a great way to get rid of the old wardrobe! And be able to afford a matching cover for my sun tent that I use at shows. Now my van looks like something royal threw up in there. Buckets, chairs, tablecover, rubbermaid tubs in the boot, stall chains, saddle racks, sheets, pad embroidery, and so on... They have all been changed over to the new colors. And when we get the van re-painted next year?.... You guessed it! Royal, white & grey! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

"Elegance is an Attitude"

poltroon
Oct. 30, 2002, 05:47 PM
For barns that insist that all stable blankets be particular colors, I wonder if they don't actually shortchange the horses in the quest for fashion, given that different blankets are cut differently and fit differently. Most blankets these days come in only one or two color choices.

Obviously not a problem for coolers.

dogchushu
Oct. 30, 2002, 05:47 PM
You know, I used to think I made a pretty darn good salary and was doing AOK for myself! Then I got into horses and learned just how poor I really am!

Geeze Louise! Some of these requirements are not only beyond my means... they're on a different planet from my means!

But, luckily, there are many good trainers out there! Some of whom will not require that I spend the GNP of some smaller countries to outfit my horse! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Though I don't consider them "Wal-marts" of the training world. More like smaller, less expensive boutiques you're lucky to find!

clearound
Oct. 30, 2002, 07:27 PM
To all of you that don't like being dictated to about your horses clothes, your tack trunks, your show clothes, or the tack that you ride in, I have one comment to make - Don't ride with that trainer. Its that simple!

Nylar
Oct. 30, 2002, 07:43 PM
My last barn's colors were teal, purple, and black. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif I had a jacket (which thankfully was black with discreet teal writing), but that was it.

My current barn was tan/black when we came in, but is now black/royal due to the kids' viewpoint of having "brown" as a barn color. And I wasn't going to complain, my colors were already black/royal/white. So I match my barn at home and my college colors (royal/white).

My trainer wants everything to be neat, and she will definitely suggest what to buy, but when it comes down to it, it's our money. A friend just switched barns, and I will completely admit to having a jaw-dropping reaction when she told me about buying all new stuff. But hey, if you can afford it, then why would it matter to me?

http://www.geocities.com/dunnbypicasso/

paw
Oct. 30, 2002, 09:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EqChick:
Okay - last note on requirements: the only thing that I really don't like is when trainers assess a "decorations" fee or whatever it's called for the front of the tack stall - planters, wood chips, drapes, etc. That one really is advertising, and I think should be a barn expense. I don't mind contributing plants - or letting them use my trunk in it (the nice wooden one before was all the time, and I had to schlep up to the end of the barn every time I needed a hoof pick). That would be like asking boarders to help fix the truck - PLEASE don't tell me you've heard of that!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oddly, I _don't_ mind paying for the "setup" at a show - it's very nice to have an attractive covered place to hang out while waiting for something to happen. And wood chips (or _some_ sort of ground covering) are *so* much nicer than just the bare dirt!

Of course, at this point I can't afford to show, as our barn just moved back to its _fabulous_ new digs and the stall rent (though not the training fees) doubled. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif But hey. The new barns are beautiful, and nothing's too good for my guy, right?

Jess
Oct. 30, 2002, 10:26 PM
I know the barn I moved to in Texas gave you the list when you signed the board contact. Therefore when signing the contract before moving in you knew what was to be expected, and if it didn't work for you then you could find another barn. It stated everything you needed, and that you would have to do a minimum number of shows a year.

Every September they find out what horses have no blankets, get there size, and order them. Its a fairly large barn, but everything is done right.
As C.Boylend said that your horse will go down to the ring in either the barns or someone elses clothes if you don't have any of your own.

We are required just have to get a small trunk.. The only times the trunks are used are for shows - getting your stuff there, and getting it home. Everyone at the barn has lockers.

The tackstores also have a list of what we are allowed to buy when sent in to buy things.. This keeps down on buying things you just won't ever need.

If you know this before you move into the barn then I really don't think you can complain. No one forced you to move there.

~Jess~
www.catchride.com (http://www.catchride.com)

Cruising
Oct. 30, 2002, 11:23 PM
I'm not with a 'A' BNT, but a BIGish-kinda-sortaNT for AQHA. Thank GOSH our AQHA shows aren't in to all the decorating (ya, some are, like Congress, but it's more fun, like decorating contests). Yes, I think a barn that looks matched looks nice. However, I don't think you should have to get a CERTAIN matching item. If everything looks neat and tidy, you should be fine at any show in MHO. I don't have a problem AT ALL with trainers gently encouraging clients to purchase items in the trainers or barn colors, but when it gets to the point where the client MUST have certain colors of a certain name brand item (the most exspensive on the market usually), that's when I think it's gone too far.

And when you don't like the barn colors, why on earth should you have to spend thousands on items in those colors? I can't stand my trainer's colors (I seriously believe navy and hunter are the worst colors together ever, I CANNOT STAND THEM!!!!!!!!!!!). So why would I buy stuff in those horrid (MHO /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) colors? So I decided to buy any new stuff I needed in my BARN'S colors (Maroon, black, gray). I LIKE these colors and my friend (who picked the colors, b/c her parents bought the barn) who also shows AQHA hunters has all her stuff in these colors, so we look 'matchy' enough, if we are at a show where some people care about the amount of 'matchiness'. And I don't have to worry about trunks, I have a wonderful huge wooden one that my grandfather made, and I think it always looks nice.

And I can't understand trainers who just add random stuff onto monthly bills. My parents would have a fit if my trainers just added stuff that I 'needed'. Now, if the trainer talks to the client and say "Hm, you might want to buy so and so. You can order it, or I will, if you like, and add it to your board", then thats nice and convinent and FINE. Or, my trainers recently announced they were going to add a $50 charge every 3 months for supplies for the horses in their programs (for wraps, pads, sprays, etc). And my parents are fine with that, they announced it before hand and we understand what we are being charged for. But where does a trainer get clients who don't mind monthly charges of "Beval pad-$200, wraps- $50, Eskadrons- $80" ? That just seems crazy to me.

I mean, if thats what floats your boat, then thats great for you!

I think I'll stick with AQHA and AQHA trainers, however.... /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

* B E L E N *
*Larks Caruso* / *Every So Often*
If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough - Mario Andretti
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VTrider
Oct. 31, 2002, 05:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EqChick:



Okay - last note on requirements: the only thing that I really don't like is when trainers assess a "decorations" fee or whatever it's called for the front of the tack stall - planters, wood chips, drapes, etc. That one really is advertising, and I think should be a barn expense. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

AMEN!!! Ain't that the truth! I know someone who shipped in at Upperville for ONE DAY and they were slapped with a portion of the "decorations" fee. If the clients want to chip in to do the decorating - that is fine. But for the trainer to go out and buy hoards of plants, flowers, wood chips, benches, chairs, mini bar, etc. and then divy the cost up amongst the clients is just wrong IMHO. I mean $75/per client for the ice sculpture is just a bit much - don't you think? /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[This message was edited by VTrider on Oct. 31, 2002 at 08:08 AM.]

lauriep
Oct. 31, 2002, 07:20 AM
in much the same way as Ruby G. does at her barn. And she is the BEST there is, and I am proud to have learned from her.

When Sandron first started out, and I was there from day one, Conrad handled barn purchases and Joe handled paying the bills. What Conrad decided was the way it was. At first, with just a client or two, we DIDN'T have all matching stuff. It was a stretch to get tackroom drapes bought and a few coolers for out first outing to FL.

But as time went on and the boys became more successful, having a well turned out barn became important both from a horsemanship and safety point, but also as an advertisement. We bought coolers, trunks, grooming boxes,the VAN, etc., in Sandron colors. Customers were encouraged to buy the wood trunks with a small brass plate that could go anywhere. Conrad PERSONALLY taped every brush, rake, shovel and pitchfork in color coordinated tape. The clients were required to buy a Baker blanket and sheet when they came on board, but used our Sandron stuff to go to the ring. Saddles were up to the rider, bridles were ok as long as of good quality. But EVERY bridle in the barn was fitted to the horseit belonged to so that the cheekpiece buckle and cavesson buckle were even with the eye. No long, flapping straps in our barn. At home, whatever was handy was used, usually older, more ragged stuff, saving the "show" equipment for the shows.

We only used leather boots on the horses. Never plastic or polo wraps. Sheepskin or neoprene lined were both ok. The rider had a lot of input into what the horse needed, but quality of the purchase was dictated by us.

And it pays off. Good quality equipment lasts MUCH longer than the cheap stuff, and with the proper care it was given by yours truly, it looked beautiful in the ring.

When you get to the level of the BNTs, they expect, and are usually entitled to, having a barn that runs well and ALSO GIVES THE APPEARANCE of running well. And yes, they try to attract clients who appreciate this attention to detail. It is those clients who paid my salary...

A barn where every horse has a different color blanket or cooler, different strap goods, mismatched trunks, etc., just simply does not give the appearance of a well run operation. Like it or not, it is a fact.

Laurie

Bumpkin
Oct. 31, 2002, 07:22 AM
The board/training agreement at one of the stables I looked at stated that if you did not make it to a show you entered you would still have to pay your share of the decorations fee and all trainer, grooms and grooming stall fees.
Just think what that would be for Indio or WEF!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif
I can see paying a fine/deposit, but the whole thing???
I don't think so.

Member & Recruiter Of The "Sunnieflax Clique"

caffeinated
Oct. 31, 2002, 07:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lauriep:
And yes, they try to attract clients who appreciate this attention to detail. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

read: has money coming out their ears.

I agree on the issue of quality, and will always spend more to get better, longer lasting things for me and my horses. I'm just objecting to the idea that the people who can't afford some of this stuff are considered to not care about detail. Keep in mind that my response to this kind of thing is borne of many years of frustration at not being able to compete because of money, and being on the short end of the elitism stick- I am not a ranting lunatic on this subject, really, I just have too much experience being on the "unwanted" side of the fence.

**and people say gov't employees are useless... HA!**

lauriep
Oct. 31, 2002, 07:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by goldentoes:


read: has money coming out their ears.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For those that wanted to board with us, yes. But J & C also helped MANY clients that shipped in for lessons at the farm and then met us at shows. Some stabled with us, and used their own equipment, and some stabled elsewhere. As long as the horse showed up clean, trimmed and fit, all was well. And everyone seemed very happy with the arrangements.

Laurie

stevie
Oct. 31, 2002, 08:26 AM
I think this thread says a lot about this elite sport we all choose to participate in! Isn't it a shame when basically winning in this sport comes down to who is spending the most money? I've been to plenty of barns were I was told I needed matching everything. One barn would actually order things from Bevals without me knowing, until Bevals would call me and see if it was ok. The funny thing about that barn, was, that I wasn't even "allowed" to ride my own horse! I would drive an hour and get to the barn and be told that "sorry, your horse has already been ridden today!" It didn't take me long to find another barn. The problem is not with the trainers, but the customers... It is the really rich people who allow these trainers to control them and their horses. Unfortunatly, these are the people who are winning at the big shows.
Not until we as customers start telling the trainers how we want things done, is this sport ever going to be put on a fair playing field. For those of us who choose to compete in the hunter world, we must be willing to spend a lot of money. Talent gets overlooked in all the different barn colors. Isn't this sport expensive enough before you start throwing in the clothes for your horse. I've spent more money on my horses clothes in the last five years then I have on my own clothes.
But, I only have myself to blame. I've learned that it is not the color cooler your horse is wearing that is important. It is how the horse and rider are treated. I will never ride at a barn again that dictates what I must do. If I stop winning at the shows becaues I cannot be controlled, then I really wasn't winning!!!!!!!
This is the sad truth about the hunter world.

J. Turner
Oct. 31, 2002, 09:09 AM
As I said above ... small point, but my horses have never fit in Baker stuff. I wouldn't put them in them and have their shoulders and withers rubbed to death, just to match. Maybe I'd get the blanket and put it over a well-fitting sheet. There are so many more functional, as nice, or prettier blankets out there now.



"And Max said, 'NO!'"
-- Maurice Sendak

*** Member of the Rust Clique ***
*** Member of the Ebay Anonymous Clique ***
*** Member of the MKF (Michelle Kwan Forum)***

Hopeful Hunter
Oct. 31, 2002, 09:14 AM
I think Stevie has totally hit on what my frustration is...

How can the RIDERS, regardless of their finances, take back the sport of show hunters?

I LIKE the hunters. I like trying to learn to create smoothness, I like the skills needed to make a very athletic endeavor look lovely. I do spend money on quality items for my horse, but my first concern is that I have the right (read well fitted, comfortable, durable) item, not the right color. I'm willing to spend more for better quality instruction and equipment. I'm NOT willing to spend just for the sake of appearances.

So...how do we make hunters the sport many of us seem to want -- one where effort and ability, not connections, really allow one to rise? Do we need a non-rated circuit alternative? Do we all need to get onto show committees? What?

EqChick
Oct. 31, 2002, 09:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VTrider:
I know someone who shipped in at Upperville for ONE DAY and they were slapped with a portion of the "decorations" fee. If the clients want to chip in to do the decorating - that is fine. But for the trainer to go out and buy _hoards_ of plants, flowers, wood chips, benches, chairs, mini bar, etc. and then divy the cost up amongst the clients is just wrong IMHO. I mean $75/per client for the ice sculpture is just a bit much - don't you think? /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's exactly what I'm talking about! I have no problem looking nice, and actually would prefer to show with a barn that had a nice set up at nice shows. But, the ice sculpture as a C show is a little much. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

The funny thing is, I have had people call me a barn snob so many times - not for buying expensive stuff (I think I've proved THAT one wrong), but for being a tad obsessive about the barn. My tack trunk lid does NOT stay open (not safe, plus dust gets in!). I clean stalls like 10 times a day (cuts down on grooming). I wash water buckets twice a day. I clean tack with every use (including schooling). Tack stall is set up first thing and things put away after EVERY use. And I am FREQUENTLY seen raking and sprinkling the isleway. That's my ultimate peeve. /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Trust me - I LOFF the look of a clean, organized barn at a show. I love the woodchips, a bench, champion coolers, and a show trunk outside the tack stall, but I've known of barns that require the $75 fee EVERY SHOW! That stuff lasts a long time (except MAYBE the wood chips). I think I'm along the lines of I like the look to be uniform, and clean, just not ridiculously expensive/excessive. Sounds to me like there's a lot of us in agreement on that point. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

So tell me again how the 40 Hour Standard was created? I think my boss was busy...

Liverpool
Oct. 31, 2002, 09:15 AM
Originally posted by Lauriep:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> When you get to the level of the BNTs, they expect, and are usually entitled to, having a barn that runs well and ALSO GIVES THE APPEARANCE of running well. And yes, they try to attract clients who appreciate this attention to detail. It is those clients who paid my salary...

A barn where every horse has a different color blanket or cooler, different strap goods, mismatched trunks, etc., just simply does not give the appearance of a well run operation. Like it or not, it is a fact. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have to say I agree with this. Whether we are talking about a BNT or not... as a client, I want to see that type of organization and attention to detail. I am not wealthy, do not and never will have a six figure horse, and have a day job like most amateurs.

Over time, I have accumulated all the "stuff" I always envied seeing in those big fancy barns. I enjoy having it, and using it, and quite enjoy being a part of a well turned out group at a nice show.

For what it's worth, I have a wood trunk rather than a colored panel one - depending on who I've stabled with, it is sometimes out front because it is pretty, or tucked away in the back because it doesn't match. I bought a wood trunk BECAUSE it was rather generic by the way - it is a nice quality McGuinn and I figured it would be acceptable anywhere, which has been true.

If I rode or showed regularly with a trainer, I would not object to buying a few things (scrim, cooler, sheet) in their barn colors. I've also bought trunk covers in barn colors on a few occasions. I've *never* been required to do so, but since I enjoy being part of the whole presentation, I wouldn't object to that request. Ditto on the decorations, plants etc outside a tack stall. They look nice, I enjoy them, and I'm happy to chip in my share. (We normally split up the plants etc afterward, and I put them in my garden /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)

So - if all the "trimmings" turn you on, then I say go for it. If they turn you off, there are PLENTY of good trainers who could not care less about what color your cooler is... or who would gladly lend you one of theirs. I just cannot see the point in choosing to be offended by it all!

I choose my friends for their good looks, my acquaintances for their good characters, and my enemies for their intellects. A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies.
Oscar Wilde (1854–1900)

Anne
Oct. 31, 2002, 09:17 AM
Goldentoes, NO!!! You do not have to have money coming out of your ears to appreciate a barn that is well organized and coordinated!!! Sorry but this irks me. I certainly understand those of you who have a houseful of things that would be upset at being forced to buy new things in the "right" colors, but if you are buying anyway, buy the stuff to match. Is it really that big of a deal? If you already have stuff in other colors, then use the barn cooler to go to the ring and use your own things at home!

Those of you who are having fits about your equipment and supplies being dictated are probably the same ones who would have issues with being in a trainer's "program". Stevie, your driving an hour and not getting to ride sounds like you and the trainer have communication issues - it should be spelled out when you will come and what the horse's workload is. Different things work for different people, but don't judge others based on their choices.

What's so elitest about things that match, and a comfortable area to sit down at a horse show? I agree that some of the decorating and fees for it can get out of hand, but some drapes and director's chairs are not excessive.

*****************************
Custom Needlepoint Belts (http://www.freewebs.com/belts)

Hopeful Hunter
Oct. 31, 2002, 09:36 AM
EqChick -- you're the kind of "barn snob" I'd love to have around! Heck, you sound much like my trainer, who before she took over our barn management was ALWAYS tidying and working to make things neater and more organized (with some of us helping, others not).

As to not liking to be told what is and isn't acceptable -- I think this is a personal control issue. Some people are simply more into their horse's day to day care and training and accessories than others, I think, whether due to time, money or whatever. I am a major control freak, and for me, I decide what happens with my horse, down to what he eats and what shampoo he uses.

Now, I do this in coordination with the barn and my trainer -- I don't personally order his food, but I want to KNOW what's going on. It's not quite micro-management, but people know not to change anything big without first talking with me. It's rare that I object, but I have on occassion (shoeing changes I've vetoed, for example, and some food issues - he's an oTTB and food can be a big deal).

Yes, there have been a few occassions when my trainer was showing my horse locally that I arrived to find she'd worked him in prep for the weekend show, so I just patted him on the neck. But I KNEW she was going to show him, and that she was going to do a training ride, so I was OK with having messed up the timing. WE had discussed it in advance, and I figured it was my fault I hadn't checked her schedule fully.

But I have a problem when there is an insistence that all strapgoods are the same, or that all horses wear one type of blanket. That, to me, is NOT good horse management - it's putting style first. Why? Because the same brand simply doesn't FIT all horses. And because it allows the OWNER who pays the bills no room for personal expression.

Insisting that tack be clean and polished and in perfect repair, fine. Insisting on a white saddle pad, fine. Requiring all horses to have a rain sheet and a winter sheet for turnout, fine. Insisting these be properly repaired when ripped (ie not using duct tape and hay string as I admit to sometimes doing), fine. Even saying "oh, these are the barn colors in case you need to get new ones" is fine. These are safety concerns. Color and brand are NOT safety concerns, and dictating that is what I find personally too much.

As to show fees -- I strongly object to paying for barn advertising. Paying a small (like $10) per day fee for a cooler of drinks and some cheese and crackers for the riders to enjoy, fine. Paying $75 per show to put up an ice sculpture? I'd rather pay $75 to have a massage therapist for the horses and humans, thank you.

I guess it's really all a matter of perceived value. And, yes, some of it is anger at knowing it's so very far out of reach, I suppose. I suspect on some level we all dream of showing the big time with the big barns. But the reality is it's not possible for most people. Sad, but true, and it probably makes us just a wee bit pissy about it.

caffeinated
Oct. 31, 2002, 09:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Anne:
Goldentoes, NO!!! You do not have to have money coming out of your ears to appreciate a barn that is well organized and coordinated!!! Sorry but this irks me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

actually, that was my point. As I said above, IU appreciate detail and coordination, as well as organization. But the talk about "we want to attract a certain kind of client" seems to infer that it's all about attracting the $$$.

One can have a beautifully organized and coordinated stable without requiring people purchase matching everything at inflated prices. And because one doesn't want to buy matching everything at inflated prices DOES NOT mean that they don't care about organization and looking nice. The idea that was bothering me was the idea that if you can't afford x,y,and z, well you're not good enough for this or that barn, and must not pay "attention to detail"

edited to add: and "excessive" is in the eye of the beholder. To one person, dropping $100 on drapery for a horse show is nothing. To me, that's a major sacrifice and unnecessary expense, and, therefore an "excessive cost"

**and people say gov't employees are useless... HA!**

DMK
Oct. 31, 2002, 10:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by goldentoes:
But the talk about "we want to attract a certain kind of client" seems to infer that it's all about attracting the $$$. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, I don't think it "infers" it at all. I think it flat out shouts it, and rather loudly at that. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I also don't think there is anything wrong with that. As I have said (repeatedly) it's what every for profit organization (and many NFPs) DO in this country (and any place there is free trade). I think if a person wants to take umbrage at this concept, they ought to go snarl at people who walk into Nieman Marcus too. Or maybe just anyone who doesn't go shop at the Salvation Army. Or chooses to buy an XLT versionof a truck instead of an XL, because the marketing decisions that led you there are no different than what this thread is bemoaning.

But another thing to consider, is thanks to all those more well to do clients, there are quite a few of us who get to ride at nice shows with excellent trainers for far less money than the aforementioned clients pay. I can promise you that I cannot afford to attend WEF, Biltmore, etc. as a full care client, but I can damn sure go as a self care client.

This may come as a shock to some, but if my trainer didn't have all those clients who are a little more well heeled than I, he/she would expect a significantly larger chunk of my money to cover the expenses of getting to and setting up at such nice shows (where a person can depend on a certain quality of judging and footing). As it is, I get by with schooling fees and sharing some of the trainer's hotel costs, and I still have access to high quality training. Same goes at home. My trainer doesn't expect me to figure heavily in his income, since I ship in for lessons. Regardless, I don't get "less" of a lesson than the full boarder.

Most days I could care less that some people have enough money to constantly purchase new stuff when they change trainers. Some days I am smart enough to appreciate how it benefits me.

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931)

caffeinated
Oct. 31, 2002, 10:39 AM
It's true that riding is a business.

I'm just still bitter. LOL.

Anyway I don't want anyone to get the impression that I have some deeply held hate for rich people or anything, or that I think all BNTs should be poor. It just gets frustrating sometimes to think that there are people who are swimming in talent who will never be able to get the chance to prove it because of all the silly stuff that goes on in this sport. In any case there seems to be a preponderance of posts bringing out this opinion in me the last few days, and didn't want anybody to think I was a "reverse snob" or whatever.

In fact I am just now learning the benefits of "rich clients" with my first paying riding job, so I don't think it's an evil thing. I just think it's kind of sad that so many people never had the chance, and I know a lot of people who never even tried because of the money factor, and dropped the sport altogether.

It would just be nice if, overall, in the grand scheme of the h/j world, there was a more accomodating attitude... I guess what I've been getting at is the "requirement" that anyone need to buy a certain this or a certain that and spend more money than necessary is so exclusionary that it just upsets me, because I've seen a lot of really promising talent fall by the wayside because of it.

**and people say gov't employees are useless... HA!**

Liverpool
Oct. 31, 2002, 10:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Originally posted by EqChick:
Okay - last note on requirements: the only thing that I really don't like is when trainers assess a "decorations" fee or whatever it's called for the front of the tack stall - planters, wood chips, drapes, etc. That one really is advertising, and I think should be a barn expense. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ummm...

Think about this another way. Let's agree, for the sake of argument, that decorations ARE advertising and ARE a "barn" expense. Let's say that the costs were not charged to the clients attending the show.

This would NOT mean that you, as a client, would not still PAY for these items. It would mean that you paid for them whether you showed or not!

The costs would simply come out of ALL the clients' fees for lessons, board, training etc... it would be overhead that would have to be covered by the business. Overhead expenses are paid by *all* clients - via increased fees across the board.

It does seem fairer to me that the costs of decoration should be borne by the clients who "use" these common areas at shows. Not that I enjoy paying extra fees as a rule... but I'd REALLY be opposed to subsidizing expenses for my barnmates who show more often than I do!

I choose my friends for their good looks, my acquaintances for their good characters, and my enemies for their intellects. A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies.
Oscar Wilde (1854–1900)

Coreene
Oct. 31, 2002, 10:59 AM
Said Jess: "The tackstores also have a list of what we are allowed to buy when sent in to buy things.. This keeps down on buying things you just won't ever need."

What you are allowedto buy? It's your money, you are allowed to buy whatever you want. No one should be allowed to make decisions re what you can or cannot do with your money.

rockstarr
Oct. 31, 2002, 11:10 AM
... to horrify a TBD-BNT with homemade outfits stitched up by me and hobson.

Linny
Oct. 31, 2002, 11:30 AM
I see a fancy set up as strictly marketing. All the fancy flowers, chairs curtains etc look great but add nothing to my trip. I'm lucky that horses don't strain my budget, but I'm not showing right now. If I can afford $1,000 to go a an A show then maybe $75 for "set up" is not going to have me eating Alpo next week. OTOH, I'd rather put the $75 into an extra lesson or donate it to a charity or buy some new thongs so I can compete w/ VTrider. Over the years my barn has acquired nice "set up" stuff. Each year the boarders get together and buy the owner a gift, usually for the barn. I'd rather see the barn buy a few silk hanging baskets that will last much of the season and leave some $$ for me to spend on extra treats or lessons.

I have never had an issue with spending $$$ for quality. My old barn preferred New Zealand turnout rugs because of the horses were out most of the day. I spent alot of $$$ for it and it has lasted well. If I walked into a new barn and was told that my rug didn't match, I'd be inclined to leave. If the stuff is quality, in good repair and safe I don't want to replace it.


Founder of the mighty Thoroughbred Clique!

Resident racing historian

M. O'Connor
Oct. 31, 2002, 11:43 AM
At the BN barn I worked for we would never show up at the ring without a cooler in the barn colors...that being said, the barn didn't make owners purchase barn-color horse clothing unless they wanted to. Instead we maintained a supply of "generic" barn coolers with the barn name on them; this was covered by the barn supplies fee that each owner was charged each month. Same for polos, wraps, pads, boots, etc. Everything always had to match, but we had it "on the rack" available for the owners' use. Of course, they were paying for it, but it was alot less painful than going out and buying a new wardrobe from scratch. As far as trunks, they had to be identical to the barn's ones, or made of wood. We had a row of plastic trunks that matched, and another row of wooden ones; anything that didn't match was put "out back" where it wouldn't show.

MCL

lonewolf
Oct. 31, 2002, 12:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Insisting that tack be clean and polished and in perfect repair, fine. Insisting on a white saddle pad, fine. Requiring all horses to have a rain sheet and a winter sheet for turnout, fine. Insisting these be properly repaired when ripped (ie not using duct tape and hay string as I admit to sometimes doing), fine. Even saying "oh, these are the barn colors in case you need to get new ones" is fine. These are safety concerns. Color and brand are NOT safety concerns, and dictating that is what I find personally too much.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What Hopeful Hunter said. There is difference between wanting everything to be functional and safe, making suggestions, and encouraging people to match, is fine. Telling clients what they can, cannot, and must do with their own money is overboard. I pay my trainer to be a trainer, not a fashion consultant.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
He who claims to have made a small fortune in the horse business probably started with a large one.

DMK
Oct. 31, 2002, 12:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by goldentoes:
It's true that riding is a business.

I'm just still bitter. LOL. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's OK goldentoes. I'm still very bitter about not winning the lottery. A little bitterness adds character. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

FWIW, it's worth remembering that the majority of jumper riders who represented the US in the last Olympics were not/are not wealthy, nor did they have any special breaks as young riders. They got where they were because of their talent. And matching tack boxes of course. Wouldn't want to forget the really critical element, would we? /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931)

caffeinated
Oct. 31, 2002, 12:34 PM
durnit

And all this time I thought it was the matching rhinestone studded thongs! arg!

**and people say gov't employees are useless... HA!**

ProzacPuppy
Oct. 31, 2002, 12:47 PM
Re: not being able to ride your horse after driving there- a junior who rode with BNT flew to Indio with her parents and once she arrived was told by the BNT that she wasn't going to ride her horse as she wasn't doing as well as he'd like and he'd personally do the riding.

Also in the "fancy" barn was that you were not allowed to do any of the grooming or tacking of your horse, even for lessons. I personally like to do a little grooming and I definitely want my rider/daughter to groom and handle her horse on a regular basis. (He enjoys the "quality time".) I had a little row with the trainer over that too.

I found that very often at the BNTs barn the horse and rider were judged too much on the price of the horse and the appearance of the rider and not enough on the talent of both.

Ghazzu
Oct. 31, 2002, 12:55 PM
One of the consistently amusing things about the horse world is that people seem willing, nay eager, to pay large sums of money to be abused.

If you are paying a trainer, s/he is, essentially, an employee. (Yes, I realize that it is pointless to be with a trainer if one refuses to follow their direction in certain matters, as you are paying for their expertise, but jeez, they're horse trainers, not interior decorators)

Historically, employees wore the livery of their employers.

'Tis truly the world turned upside down...

Unashamed member of the Arab clique...just settin' on the Group W bench.

SaddleFitterVA
Oct. 31, 2002, 01:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ghazzu:
Historically, employees wore the livery of their employers.

'Tis truly the world turned upside down...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, and if the trainer WERE an employee, this WOULD be the case. If you are wealthy enough to hire a full time trainer, who only does your horses, you pay him benefits, salary, the works, THEN, yes, he/she will wear your livery.

But, trainers are not employees. Sorry, not by any stretch are they employees. The absolute closest you could come is "independent contractor" hired to do a job.

There are tons of independent contractors out there, you can choose one who writes the contract to your liking. If you want the one who doesn't require matching stuff, cool. But, if the one who you really, really want to hire DOES require matching stuff, don't gripe, that is part of the fee of THAT contractor.

You can leave the contract if you don't like it, but the contractor is NOT your employee. And, IME, even in Corporate America independent contractors don't always say "how high" when someone says "jump", and often, on projects, they actually have a LOT of control (sometimes too much, just like w/ BNTs) even TOTAL control. If they don't perform to the contracting party's specifications, they don't get the contract renewed.

Mel

Blinky
Oct. 31, 2002, 01:40 PM
Ice Sculpture!! In June!

Seven
Oct. 31, 2002, 01:45 PM
I find this thread really interesting for some reason. I once boarded at a BNT place with "the list" but at the time, I didn't foot the bills, so it sort of went over my head -- the best part was that the colors of the BNT barn were the same as my colors already...so I actually didn't need that much new stuff and it was nice to have everything matching.

At my current barn (no big names, just nice people) the barn has colors (hunter and gold primary, and some black & white accents) but we aren't required to purchase anything in them...but it's often offered. I share one color in common with the barn (hunter green) so I sort of already match.

Recently we purchased matching jackets and saddle pads....I like feeling like part of the group -- I haven't been able to do that since I was much younger, so it's kind of fun. I also got a jacket for Mr. S too (my groom, photographer, trailer driver, and head cheerleader /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ). He thought it was very cool. Thankfully, the new items are mostly hunter and black with only a tiny bit of white and gold and I like that much better...it's a lot closer to my own hunter/navy/white/grey color scheme.

****
New York Horse Rescue (http://www.nyhr.org)

wimbsy
Oct. 31, 2002, 02:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Linny:
I see a fancy set up as strictly marketing. All the fancy flowers, chairs curtains etc look great but add nothing to my trip. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

HA HA... so true!

The best is when you beat the pants off the barn that has all the FANCY stuff with your backyard horse! And who looks dumb now with no ribbons on their banner!

(I know, I'm so immature!)

DreamBigEq37
Oct. 31, 2002, 02:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wimbsy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Linny:
I see a fancy set up as strictly marketing. All the fancy flowers, chairs curtains etc look great but add nothing to my trip. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

HA HA... so true!

The best is when you beat the pants off the barn that has all the FANCY stuff with your backyard horse! And who looks dumb now with no ribbons on their banner!

(I know, I'm so immature!)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But the thing is, the barns with that setup usually ARE the ones with the most ribbons on the banner /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

*~*~Lauryn*~*~*~
&lt;3 Justice Served &lt;3
&lt;3 Nip N Tuck &lt;3

wimbsy
Oct. 31, 2002, 02:57 PM
to add to my above post..I would love for our barn to have all the "POSH" banners, perfect matching Warener's (Phoenix) trunks... but it's unfair to the parents.. not to mention, the barn does C, B shows...and never stable anywhere but the Ocassional A show !!!

wimbsy
Oct. 31, 2002, 03:01 PM
[/QUOTE]

But the thing is, the barns with that setup usually ARE the ones with the most ribbons on the banner /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif [/QUOTE]

Ya, I know... I'm just being silly! There are very few occasions where I could beat a $100,000 horse! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

InWhyCee
Oct. 31, 2002, 03:02 PM
Or does s/he have stock in Warner trunks? And I thought my trainer was insane because she makes me hand gallop the ADD-Greenie...
_______

"It is by no means the privilege of the rider to part with his horse solely by his own will." -- Alois Podhajsky

"Go on, Bill... This is no place for a pony."

Ruby G. Weber
Oct. 31, 2002, 03:29 PM
A few pages back, DMK and LaurieP spoke with the.voice of reason. I agree with them.

This issue should not end up being about the haves and have nots.

It's an example of professionals' desire (no matter how extreme) to create a team and an atmosphere of team spirit amongst their clients.

It is about running a tight ship, a well oiled machine. It is about organization, client wise, horse wise and employee wise.

Clients should never forget, the better they look, the more ribbons they win, the better the professional looks. So don't get hung up on matching coolers and fancy tacks rooms equating to free advertising.

The best form of free advertisment is all those ribbons hanging on the banner.

Silver Bells
Oct. 31, 2002, 03:50 PM
I would wager a hefty sum, that most trainers get a "kickback", discount, or some sort of monetary reward for their customer referrals.... If you think not...guess again!
Someone has to keep them in the latest equipment and attire. You know we pay on "both ends" in this business!

Ghazzu
Oct. 31, 2002, 04:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SaddleFitterVA:
But, trainers are not employees. Sorry, not by any stretch are they employees. The absolute closest you could come is "independent contractor" hired to do a job.

There are tons of independent contractors out there, you can choose one who writes the contract to your liking. If you want the one who doesn't require matching stuff, cool. But, if the one who you really, really want to hire DOES require matching stuff, don't gripe, that is part of the fee of THAT contractor.


Mel<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I'm aware that they are more like contractors than employees.

That's why I gave the comment its own paragraph.

However, the day the contractor tells me what color to paint my house is the day he leaves in a hurry....

Is it standard to write into a boarding/training contract the part about matching clotining?
I've not seen it at several places which do pressure the clients to buy clothing in the barn's colors. Clearly, if you signed such a contract you'd be expecting it.

Unashamed member of the Arab clique...just settin' on the Group W bench.

Linny
Oct. 31, 2002, 04:55 PM
I have no disagreement with Ruby et al. The very top end barns want to run their operation their way and they have worked hard to earn the right. I have however seen many barns that have matching "everything" where the care is less than meticulous, so let the buyer beware. I'm sure that barns like Conrad's and many others are run with near military precision. The barn where I ride (local BNT) offers outstanding care and training and we win at A shows. No one is told what type of blanket to buy or trunk to use. A recommendation is given when asked for but no one is told what they MUST have.
If the barn wants to look "together" at shows I can see if they want you to use stable colors for coolers etc. If you are doing jumpers a stable polo shirt is fine. In the hunters there is less room for variation anyhow. I would not stay at any barn that orders all new stuff for me and bills me. I guess I wouldn't be boarding at a place that had that policy anyhow. I'd happily buy new in the appropriate colors as old stuff wore out.
All that matching stuff is very nice and the type of barn that insists upon them usually has a wall of ribbons at A shows. I just see it as the barn's business expense (marketing) rather than mine. I understand the team building advantage of matching gear. If a barn provides coolers etc for shows in their colors eventually many people will get on board to get their own.

I have no knock on barns who want everything to match. I just don't want to walk into a new and expensive business arrangement only to be insulted in my taste in equipment. If I love the barn and the team I'll be sporting the windbreaker, the polo the ballcap before long.


Founder of the mighty Thoroughbred Clique!

Resident racing historian

Liverpool
Oct. 31, 2002, 07:26 PM
Ruby Weber,

Where exactly is that Back Forty? It sounds like I would like to board there!!!!

I choose my friends for their good looks, my acquaintances for their good characters, and my enemies for their intellects. A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies.
Oscar Wilde (1854–1900)

hillary
Oct. 31, 2002, 09:18 PM
Thanks to C.Boylen, Ruby Weber, and Laurie P: I appreciate you "telling it like it is". You do have a right to run the operation the way you want to - it is after all your business. This is educational and thanks again for sharing your procedures.

I like the idea of the trunks belonging to the barn - GREAT plan. After all, nothing is forever, not even your business. After hearing how much it is to get new panels for these, it seems like this plan is a win-win for everyone. I would not be happy if I bought a trunk, then my trainer went out of business/moved elsewhere out of state/... and then I had to go through the re-paneling, only to do this again when I had to move to another city, and then again when the barn owner sold the property to retire, and so forth. For the more established barns, this isn't a problem, but that's not the definition of every person who is starting as a trainer and demanding this of clients.

I also thought Ruby had the right idea: the stuff belongs to the barn, so no issues about using client A's cooler on client B's horse. Great plan!

I may look into this BNT thing if all I have to do is get to the show with my saddle and my horse - the rest is carted over for me? I don't even have to pack? Cool! I'd never realized this as a benefit.

SaddleFitterVA
Oct. 31, 2002, 10:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ghazzu:
However, the day the contractor tells me what color to paint my house is the day he leaves in a hurry....

Is it standard to write into a boarding/training contract the part about matching clotining?
I've not seen it at several places which do pressure the clients to buy clothing in the barn's colors. Clearly, if you signed such a contract you'd be expecting it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm, I was thinking of a different sort of contractor, I was thinking of the firms, where they help a company do something, a written proposal, and their name is clearly displayed in the documents.

There is so little in actual writing in most horse businesses, that I'm not surprised.

I don't shop at Needless Markup, I don't board with a BNT, I can see the appeal to it and could see doing both if I had the money. I don't have the money and don't begrudge those who do.

And, there is a HUGE difference between a trainer you chose to board and train with wanting your horse to go to the ring in the barn colors and a painting contractor wanting you to live in a house that isn't painted a color you like....although, I don't live in Reston, VA because their restrictions and covenants were burdensome to me. I don't whine about those restrictions and covenants, I simply voted with my feet. I don't live there.

I lived in Reston for 2 years and the "being told what to do" really bothered me, so instead of buying there, we moved.

If I tried out the BNT life and it bothered me to spend the required money, I'd move.

Mel

AAJumper
Oct. 31, 2002, 11:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hillary:
I may look into this BNT thing if all I have to do is get to the show with my saddle and my horse - the rest is carted over for me? I don't even have to pack? Cool! I'd never realized this as a benefit.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have heard of a BNT who actually charges the clients a trunk packing fee for shows. I don't think that you have the option of packing your own trunk. Is that absurd or what??? This same trainer has been known to request credit card #'s from clients so that items that the trainer thinks are necessary can be charged directly to the client.

visit www.victorianfarms.com (http://www.victorianfarms.com)

AAJumper
Oct. 31, 2002, 11:08 PM
What I really find annoying is the people who CAN afford to buy stuff but don't. And guess whose scrim or irish knit gets thrown on those people's horse at the show? Yep...mine. I find that completely annoying because now my nice stuff is getting extra wear and tear. If people already have stuff, they shouldn't have to buy stuff just to match, but I think people should be told that they need X, Y and Z instead of always borrowing everyone else's stuff.

visit www.victorianfarms.com (http://www.victorianfarms.com)

~SC~
Oct. 31, 2002, 11:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hillary:
I may look into this BNT thing if all I have to do is get to the show with my saddle and my horse - the rest is carted over for me? I don't even have to pack? Cool! I'd never realized this as a benefit.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is one of the things I love the most!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I show up for a show w/ my horse, saddle, and bridle, and they have everything else!! Saddle pads, medecine, feed/hay (although we did bring that from home), shampoo, scrims, coolers, you name it. We brought my trunk to the shows, but only as a place to keep my hat, gloves, spurs, and crop. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I never used anything in there! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

~Sarah~

~*Southern Comfort*~

mounted montey
Nov. 1, 2002, 04:39 AM
At our barn, we have to wear matching mongrammed polo shirts too for schooling! And they pick out the gear color and make too. EVen what kind-of saddle you have! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

~can you do this...?~

lauriep
Nov. 1, 2002, 07:53 AM
Our clients never packed anything, unless they wanted to for some reason. We did all that for them and all they had to do was show up. Usually, the last time that they came to school, they would simply tell us if there was something out of the ordinary that they wanted, and I'd pack it for them when I packed everything else.

Pam, where are you to comment on this thread? Lordhelpus is a former client, of Sandron and many other BN barns and as a payer, should have a pretty good take on the customer's end of the story.

Laurie

Bumpkin
Nov. 1, 2002, 08:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AAJumper:
What I really find annoying is the people who CAN afford to buy stuff but don't. And guess whose scrim or irish knit gets thrown on those people's horse at the show? Yep...mine. I find that completely annoying because now my nice stuff is getting extra wear and tear. If people already have stuff, they shouldn't have to buy stuff just to match, but I think people should be told that they need X, Y and Z instead of always borrowing everyone else's stuff.

visit http://www.victorianfarms.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not that anyone borrows my stuff, so I am not pointing any fingers, but I believe in trainers giving owners a list of things they need.
And I emphasis "Need".
JMHO of course.

Member & Recruiter Of The "Sunnieflax Clique"

Liverpool
Nov. 1, 2002, 08:32 AM
At our barn, the packing service is optional for those on regular board, and included if you are on full care. I believe the charge is around $75 and includes everything right down to putting on your horse's shipping wraps.

My horse is on full care due to my work schedule, but perversely I like to pack my trunk myself - I've been doing it forever and honestly sort of enjoy it. Plus, I have "my system" down pat and so if I pack, I know where everything IS when I get to the show... a big plus when I get a little nervous and suddenly "can't find" my gloves/hat/stick/ whatever. DOH, they're in the same upper left hand corner where they always are!

However, it is VERY nice not to have to worry about packing feed, buckets, horse clothing etc. I have no regrets about leaving the heavy duty stuff to someone else. This is one of the services that makes it possible for me to show at all and still manage the rest of my life and responsibilities.

By the way, although I would consider this a premium facility, it is not a BNT barn. Those of us who compete generally meet our trainers at the shows. I really like that the presentation is consistent with the turnout of an A circuit barn, though, even though I don't show that often.

I choose my friends for their good looks, my acquaintances for their good characters, and my enemies for their intellects. A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies.
Oscar Wilde (1854–1900)

findeight
Nov. 1, 2002, 08:55 AM
Can't help but think some are inferring a little too much about a barn just because they see matching stuff out at the shows. It really doesn't mean customers are forced to buy anything-yes there are some that do but not really that many.

Many clients either grow out of a pony into a horse and need to buy new stuff anyway or are starting from scratch with a first horse, they don't mind the colors or the list of preferred tack (preferred, not required).

It is reasonable to expect that an incoming client from another trainer will already be well stocked with this stuff and most don't mind-just don't expect to see it at a show right out front and cut them some slack if the other trainers name is plastered on it. Can't fault them for that. My stuff is monogramed with MY name for that reason.

And for the suggestion that the trainer buy all the trunks, coolers, escadrons etc????????????
How much do you think most trainers make? I know they deal with rich clients and fancy horses but their own checkbooks don't reflect that fact. The horse business is hard and few make any real money at it-they train because it is their passion-many jobs are easier and return more financially. Most clients make far more then they do.

Although some trainers do require the stuff (and are, frankly, snobs) most won't turn away a talented student with an able horse because of matching accessories-THEY CAN'T AFFORD TO LOSE A CLIENT. Even alot of the bigger names.
Those that do require it make it no secret so can be avoided.

The Horse World. 2 people, 3 opinions. That's the way it is.

Dementia 13
Nov. 1, 2002, 09:08 AM
I certainly understand those of you who have a houseful of things that would be upset at being forced to buy new things in the "right" colors, but if you are buying anyway, buy the stuff to match. Is it really that big of a deal? If you already have stuff in other colors, then use the barn cooler to go to the ring and use your own things at home!
_____________________________________

Anne - don't get mad at me or think I am being sarcastic - but I agree with you. I think it looks pretty when things match, that's just my opinion.

I don't think that is being elitist at all.

Anyplace Farm
Nov. 1, 2002, 09:32 AM
See, I am one of these people. I am a freak about uniformity and turn out. I can't help it. So, this is how my dream barn would be run.

Instead of making people buy their own, though, I'd just buy it for them and bill them. Then, I would maintain the repairs, cleanliness, etc. on the blankets.

They would get their money back if they left the barn once returning all of the equipment.

I am one of those people that can't bear to look down the aisle of a barn and see all different colored blankets folded incorrectly.

I'm seeking help for it... /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"Life ain't certain...ride your best horse first." Unknown

*Founding member of the Jigging Clique*

Bumpkin
Nov. 1, 2002, 09:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Anyplace Farm:
See, I am one of these people. I am a freak about uniformity and turn out. I can't help it. So, this is how my dream barn would be run.

I am one of those people that can't bear to look down the aisle of a barn and see all different colored blankets folded incorrectly.

I'm seeking help for it... /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I feel the same way /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Member & Recruiter Of The "Sunnieflax Clique"

SteadyPace
Nov. 1, 2002, 10:08 AM
AnyplaceFarm - I hear you about the need for conformaty. I'm a huge freak about everything being neat and tidy and looking very 'in order'.

I too think some of the big barns set ups are impressive, the idea of having someone pack my trunk and take care of all the misc horse show stuff is also a nice idea. The shame of it is, is that it may make horse showing out of reach for a lot of people. I can barely afford to do 3 A shows a year, and when I do go I do ALL of my own work, I simply couldn't afford it otherwise.

My point is this - I love the look of a uniform barn, with matching sheets tack trunks and the like and I completely respect a trainer wanting to have a barn run like that. It just makes it nearly impossible for the 'rest' of the world to keep up. And I feel like the real reason why we're all here, the love of horses and riding, is lost in the search for matching sheets, tack trunks and landscaping fees.

"Friends don't let friends reply to all"

elizabeth
Nov. 1, 2002, 10:26 AM
Who is the trainer in So. Cal with the red-white-and-blue stuff? Is that Michael Hennegan?

Uh, yeah, just for the record, I'm not so sure I'd be thrilled in having to purchase a bunch of red-white-and-blue horse stuff. Just FYI. . . .

buryinghill1
Nov. 1, 2002, 10:42 AM
Last winter my horse lived in the last stall on the FAR side of the barn. I had a new Baker sheet and an ancient used blanket (I swear came from some Amish plow horse) and a Whitney (equally ancient). She looked like the unwanted waif compared to all the critters in their matched attire.
She ended up (still wearing her rags) in the FIRST stall by the tack rooms/feed stall/grooming areas because I am the favorite boarder /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif (the horse has since left). When I arrived to find she had MOVED I was in shock. I pay one-third (or more) of the normal rate (I must LOOK poor!). Trainer says I helped so much around the barn, my old gal gets front and center (even in her hand-me-downs). He likes matched everything, but he knows fancy duds don't make the horse - and fancy clothes don't make the horseman. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif All that sweeping and polishing and "volunteer time" paid off!
BUT if the old gal had to go to some horse show I would expect to get matching duds. Which is why, she never left the farm. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

His Greyness
Nov. 1, 2002, 10:55 AM
Having been alerted to this thread by a posting in the Dressage forum, I have just read all eight pages of this posting. It leaves me puzzled as to why anybody would want, as some appear so enthusiastic to do, to participate in such organized fleecing masquerading as a horse sport. But my fundamental misgiving is summarized in the question:

"Will you drink the Kool-Aid when your Big Name Trainer tells you to?" /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Weatherford
Nov. 1, 2002, 10:56 AM
I don't know about other shows in Ireland, but I do know that at Dublin Horse Show (which is the biggest in this country) the horses are stabled BY CLASS - not by barn/owner/trainer/ etc! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif So, when you have more than one horse there, you find yourself running around the entire showgrounds doing the work.

Additionally, the "tack stalls" are quite specifically locked tack rooms, and may be nowhere NEAR any of your horse(s).

And that matching stuff? Don't even leave a leather halter on your stall door, as there is a good probability it won't be there the next day!

Different strokes!

By the way, I LOVE the matching look - but I am not going to pay for it in someone else's colors! On the other hand, if the barn had all that stuff for my use at horse shows, that would be OK.

19 year member of the New Hope clique! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

VTrider
Nov. 1, 2002, 10:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TXJumper:
a junior who rode with BNT flew to Indio with her parents and once she arrived was told by the BNT that she wasn't going to ride her horse as she wasn't doing as well as he'd like and he'd personally do the riding.
both.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How do you get better if you arne't allowed to ride your own darn horse?

Special Sauce
Nov. 1, 2002, 11:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>From a different universe far far away....

Having been alerted to this thread by a posting in the Dressage forum, I have just read all eight pages of this posting. It leaves me puzzled as to why anybody would want, as some appear so enthusiastic to do, to participate in such organized fleecing masquerading as a horse sport. But my fundamental misgiving is summarized in the question:

"Will you drink the Kool-Aid when your Big Name Trainer tells you to?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Only if I'm wearing a monogrammed barn coloured toga with matching Jesus sandals writing an exorbitant check for the priviledge. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VTrider
Nov. 1, 2002, 11:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Silver Bells:
I would wager a hefty sum, that most trainers get a "kickback", discount, or some sort of monetary reward for their customer referrals.... If you think not...guess again!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep Yep - you are right /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VTrider
Nov. 1, 2002, 11:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Anyplace Farm:
See, I am one of these people. I am a freak about uniformity and turn out. I can't help it. So, this is how my dream barn would be run.


I'm seeking help for it... /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes - but look how nicely your girls are always turned out - down to their "Anyplace Farm" jackets /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Rye
Nov. 1, 2002, 11:18 AM
If a trainer gave me a shopping list like that, I'd move my d*%! horse.

It's lunacy that some riders fall into almost a cultish following for their trainers, it's like they lose any ability to make a decision for themsleves. Cripes !they probably ask their trainer for guidance for how many squares of toilet paper they can use.

AAJumper
Nov. 1, 2002, 11:41 AM
I personally like the look of all matching stuff, but I certainly would not expect someone to buy all new stuff when moving to a new barn. But like others have said, if you have to buy it anyway, why not buy it in barn colors? The whole idea of the colors and monogramming, etc. is exactly like it is when you play a teams sport. On my high school softball team we matched everything, right down to our blue and yellow shoe laces on our cleats. Now, of course, I realize that horse stuff is more expensive than shoelaces, but I think that it sort of gives a team feeling to everything.

Elizabeth, Mike is not red, white and blue...I cannot think of who you are talking about unless you are thinking of Misti Cassar's flag setup at Indio.

visit www.victorianfarms.com (http://www.victorianfarms.com)

mounted montey
Nov. 1, 2002, 12:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rye:
If a trainer gave me a shopping list like that, I'd move my d*%! horse.

It's lunacy that some riders fall into almost a cultish following for their trainers, it's like they lose any ability to make a decision for themsleves. Cripes !they probably ask their trainer for guidance for how many squares of toilet paper they can use.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's tooo funny!!!!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

~can you do this...?~

Sam Iam
Nov. 1, 2002, 12:44 PM
Ok, I get the it's nice to have everything matching thing, but most people do not ride with the same trainer their entire lives. That is why over the years, I have adopted "my colors." A combo. of three colors that I think look nice together. Over time, I have purchased all the hunter necessities in these colors, and I'll be dammed if moving to a new barn would necessitate pitching all of my perfectly functional, high quality, and in my opinion, attractive "stuff".

If the barn wants to use me for advertising they better be paying me, not the other way around. If they don't like my colors, then I guess I'll just have to ride on the back of the bus to the horse shows, and frankly I don't care, but if I am requiredto spend a ton of money on something someone else thinks is "pretty", or else, then I guess that trainer doesn't want my business.

I was also astounded at a post early in this thread, can't even remember who posted it, where someone made mention of attracting the "right kind of client" or someting to that effect. And you wonder how we get an elitist reputation? It just smacked of the exclusionary country club mentality...amazing. I thought those days were behind us, I guess I'm sadly mistaken.

To the orginal poster, I can't possibly imagine why a horse sent to a trainer for "training" would need all this color-coordinated crap. Your brother isn't planning to move permanently to this barn, right? He's just sending the horse there for a specified length of time for training. Then the horse comes back to him, right? Why would he want to buy a bunch of stuff in someone else's colors for 6 months or so of training? Perhaps I misunderstood your original post.

lauriep
Nov. 1, 2002, 01:00 PM
and let's get real here. Every trainer I can think of would like to attract the clients who can buy the horses that can win, either for the trainer or for the client. If they deny this, they are lying. Will they turn down those who can't? Probably not. But the "dream" client is one with big bucks who gives a lot of free rein. Just real life, and that doesn't make the trainer any less of a person.

OTOH, I can't think of one client I know who chose a barn based on the tack room setup, or the matching blankets on the horses. It is just part of the overall picture considered when choosing where to spend your money.

Laurie

DMK
Nov. 1, 2002, 01:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sam Iam:
I was also astounded at a post early in this thread, can't even remember who posted it, where someone made mention of attracting the "right kind of client" or someting to that effect. And you wonder how we get an elitist reputation? It just smacked of the exclusionary country club mentality...amazing. I thought those days were behind us, I guess I'm sadly mistaken.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think I would take a long hard look around you, if you don't think "attracting the right kind of client" is something you aren't exposed to 6,983 times a day. What exactly did you think all that "stuff" that comes on before, during and after your favorite TV programs was? Educational TV? /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

No, no, Laurie, tell me it isn't so!! And here I always thought those big GP riders had their famous mounts dropped in their laps!!!

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931)

Pocket Pony
Nov. 1, 2002, 01:19 PM
I can see both sides of the story - I had posted earlier about all the blankets and tack that I was required to purchase when I was with BNT.

Truth be told, I thought (and still think) that this trainer has the most lovely barn set up at shows. We won the tackroom contest at Menlo a couple of years ago when I was there (big whoop, I know, but it was a big whoop to the trainer...so much so that we weren't allowed to hang out there that day!) Even at home the tack room is immaculate. There was one room for saddles and bridles only, then the supply room had the saddle pads and all the grooming equipment, feed, supplements, etc. The fabric they chose for the coolers was gorgeous and something I would want as a throw blanket at my own house. The barn was uniform looking and beautiful. The grooms were the best and handled each horse with care and love (I'd catch him singing to the horses and kissing them on their noses when he thought no one was looking).

That being said, this BNT did attract the kind of clientele that she wanted. And the rest of us chose to leave for various reasons.

My reasons were 1) control - this woman was too much of a control freak of MY horse. SHE would make decisions for him and not let me in on it until after the fact. SHE ordered my dress sheet without checking with me first. She WOULDN"T let us ride on Sundays, or turn our horses out on Sundays. We weren't allowed at the barn on Mondays at all. We were discouraged from grooming our own horse. She left blankets on all day on Sundays when both she and the grooms took the day off. . .even if it was sweltering hot, the blankets would stay on (really, a friend and I would come in to unblanket/blanket, but once we left the barn, no one continued to do that).

Reason 2) Cost. After I had bought all the required acoutrements, I had very little $$ left for showing!!! And she wanted a commitment of at least 6 shows per year (about $2500 a pop for two divisions plus the barn fees).

Reason 3) Riding Style. While this trainer does well with a lot of her horses, it seemed to me like she wouldn't adjust her style to the horse. She expected the horse to adjust to her style. If the horse didn't, then it was labeled unsuitable and the client would have to get another horse or leave. Mickey was doing well, but I just didn't like the way she wanted him to go and I knew it was contributing to his back soreness. . . and it wasn't biomechanically correct. He always went better for me when I was riding on my own...she taught him how to rear which really bothered me.

BUT - she got the clients that she wanted and now she is their exclusive trainer. They have multiple horses and ponies for the wife and daughters. They bought a horse farm and moved the operation there. They don't give a damn about the day-to-day operations...they don't have the time or inclination to treat their horses as friends or companions. They just arrive, get on, have a lesson and get off. They fork over $$ to BNT to buy horses and show horses for them. She's got a pretty good deal, as she has free rein to do whatever she wants with the horses and she doesn't get second-guessed as she would with me and my friends.

She had a goal, she worked hard for it and she achieved it. Good for her.

But still not the kind of barn I want to be a part of anymore.

"Both rider and horse must enjoy the work. This is the essence of success" - Reiner Klimke

Liverpool
Nov. 1, 2002, 01:36 PM
At the risk of adding fuel to the fire here, I don't see what all the fuss is about.

I like all the matching stuff, and though I am FAR from wealthy, have no problem getting a few items in a trainer's preferred colors so that we "fit in." I don't harbor any illusions that this magically makes me the "right sort of client," by the way - I can't/ don't show enough to qualify there - but it is part of the enjoyment for me when I *do* show.

If you don't like/want that atmosphere, there are PLENTY of other options, some of which include getting training from the so-called BNTs - and you can have your own stuff or whatever you prefer.

I would venture to guess that there is not a SINGLE BNT would would refuse to give someone a lesson or schooling at a show simply because the cooler on the horse wasn't in the desired color scheme.

But why the upset over a trainer seeking a certain type of client? If I were a trainer (and I've worked for plenty of them, big AND not so big time) I would want the wealthiest clients I could find. That would mean I'd never have to compromise on a horse that wasn't quite the perfect fit, would never have to economize on the best help, truck, gear etc... and could give every one of those clients all the lessons, training and support they wanted or needed to reach their goals. It is still a tough job and there are very few who are getting wealthy AT it, including those who have BNCs (big name clients) in spades.

The job only gets more difficult and less profitable as the clients resemble the rest of us - including me! While most pros do this job because at the end of the day they love the horses, it is still a JOB, not volunteer work. They're entitled, I think, to seek the best return they can for the time and energy they invest.

&lt;off soapbox&gt;

I choose my friends for their good looks, my acquaintances for their good characters, and my enemies for their intellects. A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies.
Oscar Wilde (1854–1900)

Peggy
Nov. 1, 2002, 02:41 PM
I think the matching stuff looks great in the barn and on the horse. I've used the name on a horse's sheet more than once to ID a horse that I was curious about and have used my friend's barn colors to find her horses and her by the warm-up ring.

However, I probably couldn't afford to ride with a barn that demanded that you go out and buy all that stuff. And, I've always felt that those towel things that people hang on the stalls are pretty silly. As others have said, if you're going to buy something anyway and the barn colors or requirements aren't unreasonable, you may as well get the the colors that match. As a dressage rider, I will confess to a secret lust for those sheets that HJ horses wear to the ring, but we really don't need them b/c we have ride times and our horses don't sit around.

The wooden trunks look nice and the upside is that it's relatively easy to change owners or barns (provided you move to another wooden trunk barn). They are a bit pricey, but you can buy unfinished wooden ones and finish them yourself. Do they tend to scratch, or are they pretty durable.

Another advantage to matching stuff is that (as lauriep pointed out) it tends to come back when it's abandoned. Pretty much everything I own is labeled with my name and/or has blue tape on it (I know--royal blue is so 70's). But, my stuff tends to get returned when it's borrowed, even the stud chains.

With respect to the alleged universal snobbery in barns with matching everything, I've found that now to be the case. A friend rides with a BNT trainer with a "shopping list." Every person that I've met from the barn has been polite and pleasant.

elizabeth
Nov. 1, 2002, 03:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AAJumper:
Elizabeth, Mike is not red, white and blue...I cannot think of who you are talking about unless you are thinking of Misti Cassar's flag setup at Indio.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, no. THAT I would not forget. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

No, some trainer at Indio had red, white and blue as his/her actual colors. (e.g. saddle pads and coolers/scrims)

CBoylen
Nov. 1, 2002, 03:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Peggy:
The wooden trunks look nice and the upside is that it's relatively easy to change owners or barns (provided you move to another wooden trunk barn). They are a bit pricey, but you can buy unfinished wooden ones and finish them yourself. Do they tend to scratch, or are they pretty durable.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll admit to a secret lust for wood trunks. They look beautiful. I sigh in envy when I see herds of them in a set-up /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif HOWEVER, the sight of a new customer arriving with four lovely wood trunks would be enough to cause me, and most of our help, to break into tears. The darn things weigh a ton /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Empty, they're inconvenient to move, loaded, almost impossible. Now maybe it has something to do with the brands I've been subjected to, I don't know, but now I have to say I would never inflict that on anyone.
On the other hand, speaking from a customer point of view, I probably wouldn't be very happy with the condition of my wood trunk after a while. We travel with around 15 trunks at a time, and believe me, we're careful, but inevitably they get stacked, they get dragged, and they get dropped. Wood just does not cut it. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Silly Mommy
Nov. 1, 2002, 05:16 PM
I'm just happy if the client remembers her hair-net!!!

I do have colors, but at the shows, mostly my trunks are displayed (others hide in the back), and a few clients have purchased matching coolers - because they liked mine, and wanted to make "us" look like a team...

BREATHE!!! Oxygen is a good thing!
Sunnieflax Clique, PITA Clique (even if no one cares that my butt is broken)

Linny
Nov. 1, 2002, 06:21 PM
I'm with the poster formerly known as Silly Mommy. I'd eventually buy most of the stuff as a demonstration of team spirit. I guess I'm just not a Kool-Aid drinker. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif


Founder of the mighty Thoroughbred Clique!

Resident racing historian

Bethe Mounce
Nov. 1, 2002, 06:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sallylou:
I really miss about Europ...I grew up in Switzerland and had my horses at one of the VERY BIG NAME barns...yet function always came way above stuff like this. I showed from age 9-18 and never once had to buy matching stuff...come to think of it the only thing that had anything on it was our saddle pads had the barn logo on them. Check out Arron and Todd's barns <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Same here, except it was Italy for me. The only things that matched were the saddle pads with our riding school logo, and we did all have matching custom made show jackets with the riding school logo on the breast pocket. But as far as matching trunks, coolers, saddles etc....no. We did all ride with Pariani saddles though! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I still have the jacket (still use it in competition), still have the saddle (still use it in competition) and still have the saddle pad but the moths got to it while it was in storage. The show jacket was paid for by the riding school as were the saddle pads. I miss the cheap entry fees and I miss the environment at shows. We were such a social group in and out of the riding school. And I miss the spectators, always a ton of them, especially when there was a fashion show right before the horse stuff began with women wearing the skimpiest bikini's you ever did see!

All the expense involved in making everyone match is just out of my realm, my money tree doesn't grow that fast! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I am super grateful to have my own farm...heck, I don't have tack trunks, I use Rubbermaid storage trunks to store my stuff...they just get locked up in the trailer.

Silly Mommy
Nov. 1, 2002, 06:29 PM
I hope you don't mind, but I borrowed from you! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

BREATHE!!! Oxygen is a good thing!
Sunnieflax Clique, PITA Clique (even if no one cares that my butt is broken)
"poster formerly known as Silly Mommy"

achcosuva
Nov. 1, 2002, 06:50 PM
So where do we order the matching monogrammed thongs? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

-Anne, the sister of a PrettyFilly and searching for the PerfectHorse-
"I'm not insane...I just compartmentalize!"

AAJumper
Nov. 1, 2002, 06:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by elizabeth:
No, no. _THAT_ I would not forget. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

No, some trainer at Indio had red, white and blue as his/her actual colors. (e.g. saddle pads and coolers/scrims)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL!!! I cannot think of whose barn has those colors. Maybe it was a trainer who we only see at Indio and that is why I can't think of who it is. Or, I'm just having a brain fade.

visit www.victorianfarms.com (http://www.victorianfarms.com)

Jamie Taylor
Nov. 1, 2002, 07:03 PM
Our barns colors are Red and Blue...somtimes someone gets something with some white just because they don't want to wait for a scrim they have to special order....Usually the horses just go down in one of my scrims if they don't have one, but a lot of times they don't really care about the colors, as long as the horse is well taken care of....colors look nice, healthy horses look nicer...=)

"Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out alive." - Van Wilder
"You can pick your nose and pick your friends, but you can't wipe your friends on the couch."

Anne
Nov. 3, 2002, 03:43 PM
I am probably going to kill this thread, but I was thinking about it more and here goes....

The relationship between a trainer and a client is not like the one between a house painter and a client. In the ideal world it should be more like a professional relationship. Your doctor gives you advice about your habits so that you stay healthy. Your attorney consults with you on contracts so you get the best deal. These professionals are paid to give advice. Ultimately it is up to you to either use the information or disregard it, but I think a trainer making suggestions about brands or colors falls into this category.

And thank you, MargaretF! No offense taken at all! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

*****************************
Custom Needlepoint Belts (http://www.freewebs.com/belts)

findeight
Nov. 3, 2002, 05:19 PM
Think back to High School and those matching colors on all the teams.

This is an athletic endeavor. No harm in some team spirit.

And again. Don't infer anything about the talent of these trainers or the care of their horses. I find it disturbing some posters think matching colors means some kind of elitist, sub standard operation.
It means nothing except the barn aisle looks nice and so do all the horses as they go to the ring.
Trainer's are still very good, average or total incompetents whether the stuff matches or not.

Examine your own dreams of the barn you'd like too. Bet the stuff would be in matching colors.

The Horse World. 2 people, 3 opinions. That's the way it is.

Portia
Nov. 5, 2002, 10:31 AM
This thread gave me an idea of a Christmas gift for my trainer. She would never think of insisting that everybody have the same colored blankets, etc., but it does look nice. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif So, I was thinking of getting her two or three coolers or dress sheets in the barn colors with the barn logo, that she can hang on a blanket bar at the front of the barn set up at shows and use to take horses down to the ring.

So, for those who do have barn coolers to go the ring, what style do you use? The big kind that goes all the way up the neck, or the smaller kind that is more of a sheet and only goes to the withers? Do you use a mostly wool blend, or some kind of acrylic or microfiber? (And if you use wool, how do you keep them clean?)

Bumpkin
Nov. 5, 2002, 11:01 AM
Portia may I suggest the Integrity linen scrims.
They look gorgeous done in barn colours, and with embroidery.
I have seen them used in the sun and on cool days.

Member & Recruiter Of The "Sunnieflax Clique"

Liverpool
Nov. 5, 2002, 11:08 AM
Portia,

The Clothes Horse makes a lovely variety of coolers and scrims ... you can check them out at The Clothes Horse (http://www.theclotheshorse.com)

If you are thinking of getting a few, why not get a variety of styles, all in matching colors, so she has one for every use? The collection will look super as part of the tackroom set up.

Personally I prefer the wool dress sheet style for cool weather, and the cotton scrims for hot days. I have my wool sheets dry cleaned when they need it; not very often since they rarely get dirty!

I choose my friends for their good looks, my acquaintances for their good characters, and my enemies for their intellects. A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies.
Oscar Wilde (1854–1900)

DMK
Nov. 5, 2002, 11:28 AM
As long as it comes in the right color (limited color choice), Edith's eskadron scrim is absolutely one of the most useful pieces of equipment I own.

It has a solid band about 2/3 of the way down where she can monogram the farm name/whatever, and it is far more useful than wool in southern climates (my wool cooler is a monument to disuse). We ended up using them about 99% of the time in FL - keeps the sun off them in the summer, wicks moisture away, keeps the dust off them year 'round, and drapes nicely over the saddle for a clean look (and we know how important the "look" is /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ).

In the photo gallery, the horse on the right in the picture of two horses at the ring is wearing an eskadron cooler.

Oh yeah, and what I have seen at shows over the last few years as far as logo/prize coolers, is a simple wool square - lined and piped as required with the logo. This looks better hanging over a blanket rack than a bulky cooler. People also take their prize coolers and do the same thing - leaving the all important "American Invitational" or "Horse of the Year" section intact and on display. Looks a lot better and makes a lot more sense than dragging around all those bulky coolers!

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931)

Portia
Nov. 5, 2002, 11:31 AM
What is an Integrity linen scrim and where do I find one?

And who is Edith and where do I find her eskadron scrim?

Thanks ladies! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Update -- I see now that Edith is proprietress of the Clothes Horse. And with a google search I found a single page website with an address for Integrity Linens. Thanks. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

DMK
Nov. 5, 2002, 11:33 AM
Edith = Clothes Horse /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

(oops)

And if I were to guess, I would guess her "coolerette" was what I was describing above (under tackroom accessories)

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931)

buryinghill1
Nov. 5, 2002, 11:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DMK:
Edith = Clothes Horse /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

DM, dearest. "Edith" works for Stadium Jumping now (scary eh?). She sold the company to Katrina. website is www.theclotheshorse.com (http://www.theclotheshorse.com)

finest horse clothes IMHO /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif (and boy o' boy am I humble)

DMK
Nov. 5, 2002, 11:54 AM
Yikes! Should have seen that one coming, given where her golfcart was always parked! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Go to HITS for two years, and your entire social reference base just goes to hell in a handbasket, eh?

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931)

Liverpool
Nov. 5, 2002, 01:25 PM
Depends what you mean by better buy... the Eskadrons are more expensive ($182 vs. $131) but I do like them better. They are lighter weight than the irish knits, so around here they get more use.

When I lived up north, I used my irish knits a lot more often. Now my scrims get used mostly in FL, except for the odd times I use the irish knit under a wool cooler on a wet horse/cold day.

I choose my friends for their good looks, my acquaintances for their good characters, and my enemies for their intellects. A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies.
Oscar Wilde (1854–1900)

Liverpool
Nov. 5, 2002, 01:29 PM
Oh and Portia, I do believe that Integrity only sells through tack shops - but they do make beautiful things. My trunk cover was made by Integrity and I have been very pleased with it.

Happy shopping!!

I choose my friends for their good looks, my acquaintances for their good characters, and my enemies for their intellects. A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies.
Oscar Wilde (1854–1900)

*In Your Dreams*
Nov. 5, 2002, 01:33 PM
/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gifI like my colors of blue and yellow. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

**~~Andrea, Dreamer, Josie~~**
For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism.
I tried to keep an open mind but my brains fell out.

AAJumper
Nov. 5, 2002, 10:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by *In Your Dreams*:
/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gifI like my colors of blue and yellow. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahhhh...UCLA colors...you have good taste! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

visit www.victorianfarms.com (http://www.victorianfarms.com)

Bumpkin
Nov. 22, 2002, 05:37 PM
I think the wood trunks are lighter, because most of the trunks are wood anyways then covered in the vinyl. So doesn't that make them heavier.

"Proud Member Of The I Loff Starman Babies Clique"

reefy!
Nov. 22, 2002, 07:48 PM
How about the trainer that takes your sheets and square saddle pads and gets them monogramed with the 'barn' logo? And then charges you for the monogramming?

Hmm, I have no qualms about saying NO. And if it were my child, that NO would be just as loud.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There is nothing so grand as to fly on the back of a horse!

Bumpkin
Nov. 22, 2002, 08:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by reefy!:
How about the trainer that takes your sheets and square saddle pads and gets them monogramed with the 'barn' logo? And then charges you for the monogramming?

Hmm, I have no qualms about saying NO. And if it were my child, that NO would be just as loud.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now if they asked if we wanted to purchase these items already monogramed from them I would be ok.

"Proud Member Of The I Loff Starman Babies Clique"

reefy!
Nov. 22, 2002, 09:08 PM
Didn't go over so well with me but hey, once bitten, twice shy.

Or lesson learned the hard way.

I have since learned to ask for a list of charges up front before it becomes a 'surprise'.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There is nothing so grand as to fly on the back of a horse!