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View Full Version : The differences between NOW and THEN....



Weatherford
Jan. 18, 2002, 03:38 PM
LCasty asked this question:<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I was interested in comparing what I have been reading in the Chronicle about the current riders and what riders of the past might think should they log on and voice their opinion of what it was like being a rider 20 years ago as compared to today. Nothing more! I sometimes watch the video of my winning the Maclay at the Garden and I must say its surreal - times have changed so much - merely curious about what the riders and trainers are thinking. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think it is an interesting question, as she is (ahhemmm....) singificantly (oh dear /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif ) YOUNGER than I am (and some other people on the BB!) I think the differences between the 80's and today are probably far more subtle than the differences between the 60's and now. How do you view them?

Weatherford
Jan. 18, 2002, 03:38 PM
LCasty asked this question:<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I was interested in comparing what I have been reading in the Chronicle about the current riders and what riders of the past might think should they log on and voice their opinion of what it was like being a rider 20 years ago as compared to today. Nothing more! I sometimes watch the video of my winning the Maclay at the Garden and I must say its surreal - times have changed so much - merely curious about what the riders and trainers are thinking. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think it is an interesting question, as she is (ahhemmm....) singificantly (oh dear /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif ) YOUNGER than I am (and some other people on the BB!) I think the differences between the 80's and today are probably far more subtle than the differences between the 60's and now. How do you view them?

Coreene
Jan. 18, 2002, 03:44 PM
I think that in the 70s when we galloped we really GALLOPED. This is the latest one that seems to be stuck in my craw. Too often are we not seeing Big Eq were "hand gallop" shows a teeny lengthening of stride?

I have also noticed that "riders, sit the trot please" gets slower and slower. And "extend the trot" is the same as Go Faster.

I would also love to see more jumps WITHOUT wings.

hoopoe
Jan. 18, 2002, 04:12 PM
I rode local hunters in the mid 80's as a novice AA. I switched to dressage /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif and had no occasion to go to a H/J show until last year.

At that time I was helping our show manager set the course for our clubs local show ( which VHV so kindly wrote about in the COTH). I asked her, "Where are the rolltop ( my fave jump) and the coops?" "Oh, we don't use them anymore."

/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

The course was all rails , panels and brush boxes. It just didn't look challenging or exciting. She implied this is how the trainers want it. And trainers drive the show biz.

_\\]
-- * > hoopoe
The ancient Greeks did not write obituaries. They only wanted to know if you had a passion.

M. O'Connor
Jan. 18, 2002, 04:25 PM
This is 60's...and this rider is 10 years old. (you might have to scroll down a bit to see the picture)

MCL
Equitation Crusader
"r" H/J/HEq

geckoUBC
Jan. 18, 2002, 04:33 PM
Well, how many 10 year olds do you see today looking that secure in a pony class, let alone a junior hunter class as shown in that picture??

I too have noticed the incredibly slow sitting trot. I watched a few big eq classes at the last A show I went to and thought that it looked really stupid to slow down to the speed of an earthworm just to "sit pretty" at the trot.

Aleesha

DRESSAGE, n.: the passionate pursuit of perfection by the obsessively imperfect

CBoylen
Jan. 18, 2002, 04:40 PM
I'm a bit too young to be able to voice personal experiences about competing in the eighties, but I've been around all that time regardless, so I'm going to mention a few things that stand out in my mind. First of all, back to back trips. I remember when they first started to do that, somewhere around 82 or 83 I think? How on earth would our shows finish on time now if you had to get people out of the barn twice? /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Next, Tb's. Remember when the non-TB class was included, and rarely filled? Remember when conformation hunters didn't belong in front of a cart? /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Speaking of which, our conf horse was grand champion at the garden in the early eighties, but we didn't live on the road all year to get there. I don't think we would have qualified now, going to the same number of shows. Also, the divisions. There are a number of recently invented divisions that you wouldn't have seen in the eighties. Flat tack. Orange martingale stoppers. Oats. Bute AND banamine /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Tails without pinwheels. (Have I forgotten anything? /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ) But for me, anyway, the big difference is in the people. My godfather could ride, train, shoe, braid, break babies, cure just about anything, groom, AND muck out /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif And he won, and he wasn't alone. Where are these people now?

just_me
Jan. 18, 2002, 04:59 PM
I'm thinking back to the 70s when hunter classes were held on outdoor hunt courses and you could gallop between fences. Oh yeah, and automatic releases.

Most hunters and jumpers were TBs. I think someone else mentioned the non-TB classes.

Maybe I wasn't paying attention back then (I was already an adult when I started to ride and I had no kids then), but I don't remember short and long stirrup divisions.

I'm sure there are more, but I'm tired.

Finzean
Jan. 18, 2002, 05:03 PM
I wasn't doing the hunters so much in the 80's (or 60's) - more horse trials.

But I can say that there was no such thing as baby novice. We all started out jumping big-doesn't-fall-down jumps, we galloped these courses on our 14.3 grade ponies that also doubled as field hunters, cart ponies, swimming partners.... When we were done for the day, we bathed, pulled braids, mucked stalls, fed, etc....and ourselves came absolutely last. No handing off the horse and popping open a soda or beer or whatever.

I do remember orange martingale stoppers, flat tack, rolled tack, NO SADDLE PADS!!, auto release, no fleece lined open front boots, really airy verticals, and humble, courteous juniors (I know not all juniors fall into this category). We also didn't wear approved helmets in the ring. On cross country we wore skull caps, but I had a variety of plastic velvet caps with elastic chin straps!!!

Oh, I'm feeling very old now! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

_______________________

There is no crying in baseball!!!

elizalex
Jan. 18, 2002, 05:37 PM
I just remember in the 80's how hard it was making the transition from children's jumpers to the juniors without any classes in between. Now there is modified jr./am., low jr./am., med. jr./am. They have classes for each hole higher you go!

wtywmn4
Jan. 18, 2002, 05:56 PM
Great topic! More than subtle. Differences, everywhere from fences, courses, distances to riders knowledge. Where do you start???

Am with Coreene in that I would love to see more galloping distances, but both rings and courses are set for cantering.. Outside courses are from a bygone era. Very few left anywhere. Legal eagles have also changed our sport, in some instances not too productively either. Everything we do in the show ring, is backed up with thoughts that no one must get hurt. So, conservative, ends up being the word.

Training, both of rider and horse has also taken on some short cuts. All of these factors, plus many others have changed our sport.

SLW
Jan. 18, 2002, 07:02 PM
Ditto Finzean and Just Me.

SLW
"It is I."

Spider
Jan. 18, 2002, 07:15 PM
I saw someone riding their hunter today (at a jumper show) and i couldn't get over the fact that the horse had NO IMPULSION WHATSOEVER! ! ! I mean the horse crawled up to the fence, jumped it, and just went along after it. I mean it's really nice when a horse can keep an even pace, but they should be using themselves properly.

wtywmn4
Jan. 18, 2002, 07:20 PM
Amen Spider.....

Gold Dust
Jan. 18, 2002, 07:26 PM
One thing I remember is when we did a course on the hunt course it was a hunt course! Not a ring with 5's on the outside and 6 on the diagonal!

Man what a cute kid!!
/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Merry
Jan. 18, 2002, 07:32 PM
Well, my first A show was at Indio in 1971 when I won Eq. on the Flat, 15-17. I've pretty much been showing ever since. The main difference (and this is my west coast perspective) was the huge influence Jimmy Williams and Flintridge was on all of us. Everyone had that ol' exaggerated two-point around the course, and I mean, we GALLOPED! Striding wasn't all that important in the lines. What mattered was if your horse jumped out of a comfortable stride. Yes, it was pretty much a following hand/automatic release. Oh, and the jumps were quite solid: wall, coops, brush racks, etc. None of this four elements per obstacle, of ground line, flower box, 1/4 round, gate.

"Friends don't let friends eat fish tacos."

Court@HJ-OH
Jan. 18, 2002, 08:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by C.Boylen:
Speaking of which, our conf horse was grand champion at the garden in the early eighties, but we didn't live on the road all year to get there. I don't think we would have qualified now, going to the same number of shows.
My godfather could ride, train, shoe, braid, break babies, cure just about anything, groom, AND muck out /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif And he won, and he wasn't alone. Where are these people now?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

These are the ones that drive me nuts
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Point Chasers<LI>Lack of horseman ship[/list]

**Courtney** and
Jack ~On the Rocks~ PLEASE /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Momo ~Just My Luck~
Love can sometime be magic, but magic can sometimes be just an illusion!

dublin
Jan. 18, 2002, 08:44 PM
Here's one of those walls Merry referred to, circa 1970. (And a big ditto on her comments regarding striding and galloping....)

Fences today are certainly more attractive to look at, what with the liberal use of flowers and other decorative elements. Lots of the fences we jumped way back when had no 'window dressing' whatsoever!

"Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." - Dennis Miller

baymare
Jan. 18, 2002, 09:01 PM
Dublin and M.O'Connor, thanks for sharing those beautiful pics. As much as I hate nostalgia on principle, I find myself genuinely mourning the "good old days" of horseshowing and professional horsemanship. The general dumbing down, the sacrifices to the almighty "bottom line", and above all the agonizing boredom of watching the average hunter round today--if riding had been like this when I started out, who knows if I would have kept going. Those photos make the typical COTH ego-trip ad pic look really sick.

Gold Dust
Jan. 19, 2002, 07:25 AM
Quote: "Originally posted by C.Boylen:
My godfather could ride, train, shoe, braid, break babies, cure just about anything, groom, AND muck out /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif And he won, and he wasn't alone. Where are these people now?"


There are still some out there. My husband and your godfather are from the same mold. But, people look at my husband as, he is the one that is not the norm. I am proud of the way we choose to do things.

Let the point chasers with lack of horsemaship have a go at it for a while. See what the future brings them! Not much, I see them having to call the vet just to put on shipping wraps because they will not be able to do a thing for themselves! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Jumphigh83
Jan. 19, 2002, 07:38 AM
The biggest difference between now and then is toughness! Nobody WORKS for it any more..they buy it! If one horse doesnt work buy another one! HAve the trainer progrem the horse show show show!!! The riders dont muck, the muckers dont rider the trainers cant braid or drive van..no body hunts..nobody rides bareback for fun or goes on trailrides....The best riders don't get the best horses, the go to the rich amateurs and juniors ...It is a whole 'nuther worldout there now!!

Betsy
Lead, follow, or get out of the way...

wtywmn4
Jan. 19, 2002, 08:09 AM
Continuing on, no one hauls to one day shows, grooms their own horses, schools then shows. No one even knows which horse is theirs.

Honestly, sounds funny and we may all laugh, but saw this happen. Mouth hung open, and was truly blown away by it. Rider walks to groom, preparing to get on, groom keeps looking at her, as she asks for a leg up, this horse mind you is a childrens hunter, rider is A/O (or supposed to be have my doubts). Groom, who's master of the english language is not awesome, is trying to tell this person, NO. She keeps insisting, finally, getting laughter under control, intervened and told her, your horse is still at the barn. It is sad, no will rephrase that, pathetic.

Betsy, you did hit it on the head with no one hunts anymore. From where we learned so very much. From where our horse shows first got started. One did NOT buy their way into the ring, you earned it.

M. O'Connor
Jan. 19, 2002, 08:14 AM
I'd be willing to bet that the fence is a true vertical on the takeoff side, ie no six layers of flower boxes to help the horse out. It's been awhile since any of these were seen in a hunter ring.

I will also never forget being dressed down in the early '90's by a very notable pair of trainers (no longer in the business, from what I understand) at an A show I course designed at because I had placed a single fence on the end of the hunter ring (picture a square, very big hunter course, with 4 roughly equal sides as opposed to 2 long and 2 short sides; we had a very big, very square field, and I'd decided to take advantge of the opportunity to use all four sides of the ring--there were the usual diagonals, and sides, but also one single fence with a nice wide approach and departure on one side of the ring--no hairpin turn, not a skinny jump, just a jump on the end...) for use in the EQUITATION courses that would take place in the hunter ring...they were very upset at the placement of the fence, and convinced management to have it moved....at another show I was frowned at by the judge and screamed at by a trainer, and really pressured by the management for refusing to remove an option of jumping a liverpool in the jumper phase of the USET and WIHS equitation classes (as opposed to jumping a skinny with a longer route around); classes that had a healthy number of riders, BTW, not in danger of not filling or not counting because of the riders not being able to make it around...I can't imagine any of the trainers I worked with in the earlier years deciding to stage a revolt because a course designer included these basic tests in an equitation course...especially the big eq.

MCL
Equitation Crusader
"r" H/J/HEq

cgn38
Jan. 19, 2002, 09:03 AM
I loved showing on the Whitefox outside course (Clinton, NY). The outside course was gorgeous!!! I also remember competing in a Maclay class (remember, before it was called Big Eq) on that outside course.

Linny
Jan. 19, 2002, 10:55 AM
I miss outdoor, galloping courses. Few hunter riders today can handle more pace than a brisk canter. I think there is far to much emphasis on striding. I did ok with some castoff type horses who could never pin on today's courses because they were either very short or long strided.
I also miss the maiden, novice and limit progresson for equitation. It was a good way to assure that riders continued up the ladder rather than beating up on overmatched rivals.
Like others I miss interesting assortments of fences. Rolltops, walls and coops added variety and interest. The barn where I ride has a nice assortment of jumps and they use them all. It's just more interesting. Different jumps need different techniques and it's a good way to learn. Coops and rolltops because of the angled shape help a horse jump in good form. IMO some of the horses who canter dully around courses might look a bit more keen jumping more interesting fences.

BEQS clique.
The early bird may get the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese.

LaurieB
Jan. 19, 2002, 11:19 AM
Not that I don't feel some nostalgia for the good old days--which for me, by the way, took place in the 60s---because I do, but...

My sister and I did a great deal of showing, most of it on large ponies at the top shows. My father captured a fair number of our rounds on his movie camera, and I happened to pull out and watch one of the tapes the other night.

Egads! Looking at some of the rounds (many of them winning rounds) it's a wonder more kids didn't get killed. Picture the outside course at Monmouth, a big galloping course built on the side of a fairly steep hill. There was a solid three foot in-and-out placed on the down side of the hill. My sister's big striding pony did it as a bounce. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Then there's my Devon round where my pony bucked through every turn. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (yes, we got called back.) Lead changes? Only if you (or your pony) felt like it. Hand gallops in the Hack that occasionally had the look of a demolition derby. Galloping down--and I mean running flat out, no balancing back on the hocks--to a solid stone wall, made of real rocks. A class at North Shore where all six of the rounds my father taped, showed the rider getting run away with.

Not that it wasn't fun because it was! But boy am I glad I'm older and wiser now.

dublin
Jan. 19, 2002, 12:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I'd be willing to bet that the fence is a true vertical on the takeoff side, ie no six layers of flower boxes to help the horse
out. It's been awhile since any of these were seen in a hunter ring.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Definitely no multi-layered flower boxes, or any flowers at all. Just plain old fence! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

lauriep
Jan. 20, 2002, 07:28 AM
and think today's riders could benefit from a few hours on trails or in the hunt field, ALL is not bad or bought, as some would have you think!

Turnout/presentation is far better, care is more advanced (yes, some of those advances have come in response to over-showing, but they are still advances), shipping is left to the professionals, by and large, greater choices in equipment (some would say gimmicks, but not if in the right hands), etc. Unfortunately, the sheer numbers of competitors has made specialization necessary. Although I wouldn't change "doing it all" as we did in the past, we certainly had to work a whole lot harder to get it all done.

To make the sweeping generalization that everyone gets to the top via $$ alone is incorrect and a real jab at the sport. There are plenty of riders who work their butts off to get to their goals; and if YOU had the money, wouldn't you buy the best you could afford? I would! I would also work hard to be the best I could be, but I would spend my $$ on the BEST horse, BEST trainer, BEST equipment, etc. that I could. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that!

And just OWNING the most expensive horse does not get you that championship; you still have to be able to ride well enough to be competitive, and that doesn't just happen!

Laurie

MHM
Jan. 20, 2002, 08:09 AM
I'll second the comment that back-to-back trips were a huge advance. Whoever first had that idea should get a medal. It's so much easier on the horses, the trainers, the help- everybody except the judges.

I also remember as a kid showing over solid obstacles that were much more imposing than what's in the show ring today. I can also remember a few shows were you started in the ring, jumped out over a panel, jumped some jumps on an outside course, and jumped back into the ring to finish. Pretty rare these days!

Bumpkin
Jan. 20, 2002, 08:24 AM
Is that a rule? Being from the olde days of showing and just starting again after 25 plus years away, I never heard this rule. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Merry
Jan. 20, 2002, 08:59 AM
LOL, Bumpkin, I don't think it's a "rule", it's just kinda what people expect. I'm staring at a photo from Ride America right now. I'm jumping an oxer (well, on horseback!). It's: a groundline, a flower box, a small brick wall, a pair of standards with a panel, and another pair with a rail.

And yes, at Flintridge and Foxfield, the outside hunt courses were the most fun! You'd start in the arena, jump out, do the outside course, then jump back in. Yee-haw! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"Friends don't let friends eat fish tacos."

LaurieB
Jan. 20, 2002, 09:39 AM
Anyone here remember when Devon had an outside course? It was the kind other posters have mentioned, where you jumped out of the ring over a large hedge (it used to be under that sign that reads, Devon Horse Show, Where Champions Meet) wound your way around the schooling area in front of the barns, then jumped back in over a post-and-rail near the other gate.

The funny thing was there were lots of spectators roaming around out there, and riders often had to yell, "Heads up!" while on course to clear the way. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Parminch
Jan. 20, 2002, 10:29 AM
How about when it was pony hunters..period and we all jumped the same height no matter what size pony we had! My shetland pony was so fat and little that her stomach often rubbed the jumps!
And Blowing Rock where you jumped out of the ring and galloped up a hill over a huge coop and then the parking attendants(hopefully) stopped the cars coming in while you galloped up the steeper hill to jump the in and out and then back down the steep hill and into the ring. Yikes..

dareacres
Jan. 20, 2002, 11:05 AM
I rode in the early sixties through early 80's and then left showing until around 95. I was really surprised by all the changes. I don't like doing your classes back to back for starters but have learned to live with it. It used to be fun to do a class and then be able to relax for a while and watch the other riders showing. Seems like no one really enjoys watching a horse show today, they just show up for their class, ride and leave. I also don't like the way braiders make so many braids. In the old days the braids were bigger and fewer and it was not unrealistic for the rider to do the braiding. I liked the hunters in a field, no stride counting, piles of pine or cedar brush around the jumps, automatic releases, and starting a horse in first year green when he really was a green horse. We started at 3'6" including the riders. I feel like the trainers today don't instill confidence in their riders. People don't think they can ride a 3'6" fence. What will riding become over the next 40 years? I am new to posting on this board and am not too sure how to use it yet! Pam in Texas

MAD
Jan. 20, 2002, 11:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JumpHigh83
Nobody WORKS for it any more..they buy it! If one horse doesnt work buy another one! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagree with this statement. I agree much more with LaurieP and her "sweeping generalization" comments.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LaurieP:
To make the sweeping generalization that everyone gets to the top via $$ alone is incorrect and a real jab at the sport. There are plenty of riders who work their butts off to get to their goals; and if YOU had the money, wouldn't you buy the best you could afford? I would! I would also work hard to be the best I could be, but I would spend my $$ on the BEST horse, BEST trainer, BEST equipment, etc. that I could. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think a lot of people have to work very hard and are very tough in today's competitive world. They have to make constant personal sacrifice to show as much as they do that is necessary to stay on top.

[This message was edited by MAD on Jan. 20, 2002 at 02:29 PM.]

Bumpkin
Jan. 20, 2002, 11:28 AM
You will find many posters agreeing with and having lived with your observations.

I find that people just don't watch the Hunters like they use to.
I watch them as much as I can and find it enjoyable, although some think it is like watching paint dry /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Princess Lauren
Jan. 20, 2002, 12:06 PM
even though im young, we dont have a lot of money to spend. i learned to ride at this tiny stable that this lady owned who showed in the 60's on ponies and when her brother died when she was young she stopped showing. so she was very old fashioned. i keep my horses at home and i have to get babies or horses with problems because i can't afford to do otherwise. we muck and take care of them ourselves at home.

-Lauren-
[Vantage Point][Imagine That]
[Come As You Are][Once In A Blue Moon]

RockinHorse
Jan. 20, 2002, 12:22 PM
I agree with Lauriep and MAD and would like to add that I do not think that having juniors and amateurs with a lot of money in the sport is any different now than it was in the 70's and 80's. There has always been a mix of people with expensive horses and grooms etc and people working very hard to show on a "shoestring" as far back as I can remember.

One of the differences I don't like is that riding jackets have gotten a lot shorter in the last 20 years and don't cover up my butt which has gotten bigger during those same years /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Finzean
Jan. 20, 2002, 03:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RockinHorse:


One of the differences I don't like is that riding jackets have gotten a lot shorter in the last 20 years and don't cover up my butt which has gotten bigger during those same years /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


ROTFLMAO!!! Actually I wish I was LMAO because then I wouldn't care that the coats were shorter!!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

_______________________

There is no crying in baseball!!!

LaurieB
Jan. 20, 2002, 03:31 PM
I, too, had a hard time getting used to back-to-back rounds. It makes things much harder on the spectators as well (which may be why there are so many fewer than there used to be.) I kind of liked having my classes all spread out during the day. Back then, there were so many fewer divisions, I guess it was easier to get everything done without all the time-saving devices.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RockinHorse:
One of the differences I don't like is that riding jackets have gotten a lot shorter in the last 20 years and don't cover up my butt which has gotten bigger during those same years /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ain't that the truth! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Leesa
Jan. 20, 2002, 03:41 PM
This sounds like "The grass is greener on the other side of the fence." There are pluses and minuses for both periods.
I remember well-known trainers being set down for the largest shows for illegal drugs. Trainers finding a distinctive "whoop", so judges would know the rider in the ring was their client. Students perched on a horse winning eq. classes, hunters hanging knees winning at the best shows.
Seems to me we have good riders and horse people in both eras and we have those people who are short on talent and long on money both eras,
also.
By the way, my trainer does all the things Chanda's godfather did, he just doesn't shoe a horse unless it is an emergency.

sss
Jan. 20, 2002, 04:15 PM
In my area, I miss the truly "B" shows. Everyone chasing points on the "A" circuit shows up, and it adds the pressure.

I'm also appalled at the lack of horsemanship and riding skills. I showed in the 80's and probably was guilty of being uneducated about a lot of stuff, and maybe that's why I notice it now. But it really burns me when I see a rider who obviously has good horsemanship skills and sensitivity place lower than a rider who hangs on her horse's mouth and poses over each jump, all because one single distance didn't turn out perfectly for the first. Was the focus always on posing and looks, as opposed to function and the resultant kindness to the horse? And how about kids that enter the ring with the most horrendous and uneducated sitting trot, and still placing high? Sometimes I want to cry when I see how kind and forgiving some of those old campaigners can be, hauling people around who don't know how to do anything but steer, pull back, and hold an equitating position.

I also miss exhibitor's parties, where most of the exhibitors actually showed up and had a good time. Now, the shows often stretch out into the evening hours, and no one ever wants to socialize much thereafter. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

horsesrlife65
Jan. 20, 2002, 04:36 PM
I haven't read this whole thread, so I'm sorry if I have repeated something.

I can understand where you all are coming from, despite the fact that I am a junior. However, I don't like when people catorgarize everyone together...I'll be the first to admit that I don't know everything about horses, however I am learning. I muck stalls, clean water buckets, turnout horses, feed, etc in exchange for my weekend lessons, and we don't have grooms at my barn (even at shows). I don't have a horse, however I am trying to become the best horseperson I can, and save every dime I make. Yes, the jumps/courses may be much different than they used to be, but that's the ways it's always been for me.

Honestly, I'm not trying to be offensive, but I just wanted to let you all know that there are people out there who are willing to work for it.

slainte!
Jan. 20, 2002, 05:02 PM
it's people like YOU who we like!!!!! you want to learn, and you're placing emphasis on your horsemanship education. some of these little princesses don't have the desire to learn anything about the animals.

keep up the good work! we need more young people to know what the heck it going on!!!

-Liz
*Member of the Disgruntled College Student Clique!*
~proud 20 yr old bubble head~
woo hoo IHSA!

wtywmn4
Jan. 20, 2002, 05:07 PM
Foxfield and Flintridge fun shows Merry. From the rider's and trainers stand points. Hopefully we never see them fade away.. Even the GTE had courses set amongst the trees, some of the exhibitors had ablast showing there. Being able to negotiate these courses, brings back a real sense of accomplishment.

Atypical
Jan. 20, 2002, 06:04 PM
I just saw an A/A class go at a major show. This indoor was huge, enough to warrant a more open stride and galloping distances, but did that happen, no. The horse CRAWLED over the fences with no impulsion. I saw two or three riders come off when their horses stopped at a jump with pink flowers because they hadn't been allowed to school over it beforehand. Is it just me, or is your version of an ideal hunter a BOLD horse?

Of course if I thought the hunters were bad I then stuck around to watch the jumpers. EEEEK!!!!! People ought to have to pass some sort of test before they're allowed to do jumpers. far from having too little impulsion these people careened around the course and I was struck, well isn't this why we start with hunters and Eq, so that you can learn to ride a course safely, and then go for speed?

horsesrlife65
Jan. 20, 2002, 06:45 PM
Thanks, Green_Lizzie /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Tackpud
Jan. 20, 2002, 07:16 PM
I'm coming in a bit late and haven't read all of page 2, but you've got me thinking back to the outside course at Loudoun Pony and Junior Show in Middleburg. Natural fences and lots of galloping! It was great! And the outside course at Foxcroft! WOW!!!

I'll compare that to a few years back at Culpeper when the hunters showed in the Grand Prix ring. The fences were set all by themselves and there were no related distances except the in-and-out. The riders could even choose to go over the natural bank if they wanted. And what happened? Many horses, including some very well known HOTYs, had to be scratched because they wouldn't go near the bank! And professional riders were heard saying "Did you do 18 or 19 strides in between those two jumps?!!!!!" I really had to laugh at that one!

So how can the Juniors and Amateurs learn to ride forward and gallop when the Pro's can't do it?! We've lost the whole concept of what showing in the '60s and '70s was. I miss those outside courses!

CBoylen
Jan. 20, 2002, 08:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Leesa:
By the way, my trainer does all the things Chanda's godfather did, he just doesn't shoe a horse unless it is an emergency.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes Leesa, there are few wonderful examples still left, your trainer included, and others such as Rick Fancher, who actually does shoe all his clients horses (at least periodically, I'm not sure if he does so at all times) However, people stop and stare when he takes out his blacksmith equipment at shows /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif But does anyone see well-known trainers or students with a more recent birthdate attempting to follow in their footsteps?

Leesa
Jan. 21, 2002, 09:24 AM
Chanda, we are of the same mind set. I wish there were more horsemen around like those people.

When they come upon a difficult horse they can depend on their experience rather than the quick fix that often doesn't last.

Dementia 13
Jan. 21, 2002, 09:34 AM
I'm coming in a bit late and haven't read all of page 2, but you've got me thinking back to the outside course at Loudoun Pony and Junior Show in Middleburg. Natural fences and lots of galloping! It was great! And the outside course at Foxcroft! WOW!!!
_______________

I remember those. I have a wonderful picture of me and my pony at the Middleburg National in Foxcroft, over that course. It was so much fun!

I think we had more fun back in those days. It seems like so many people today are just grimly chasing points, and they are so joyless. It makes me sad for them.

hmm, maybe I could start a seminar course "Putting the Joy Back in Showing."

equitationlane
Jan. 21, 2002, 09:39 AM
Having done most of my earlier showing (when I would ride just about anything) /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif I have jumped around most of the outside courses.

North Shore? Just a trip around the block. Fairfield was the same. Now, DETROIT[/B], that was pretty much an "E" ticket ride. Back in the dark ages I rode a little mare that was nothing but a controlled runaway from the first time we dropped down the hill until the end of the course. If the truth were known, that is why we all made a circle at the end of the course. SO WE COULD GET STOPPED! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

The problem with today's kids, even at the lower level is that we are all stuck in the ring. I would love to have my students and horses gallop around up the hills, but we don't have any! They all need to go to Colorado and play cowboy for a summer, where a horse is transportation you ride to get a job done, no matter what it takes.

Enough ranting and raving. As I told one of my older A/O riders when I wanted her to canter down a hill and she would not do it. "You are a product of ring riding and I did it to you!"

larosa90
Jan. 21, 2002, 09:49 AM
I took about 10 years off from horses and its been longer between A-circuits, and I grew up in the West (Colorado, with shows in AZ, IA, OK, TX, NM about 1977-1985) and now am starting to show in the East (NY 1996-97, VA, MD 2001-?).

When I was a junior, I had one horse when I had one, not two or three. With that horse I did everything, and since we only had 8 A shows in Colorado each year, we did everything we could at each show. I had a $3,000 14.2 hand pony who did Short stirrup (then that meant 11&under hunter), small junior hunter, Medal and Maclay, and junior jumper (there was only one div then, it would probably be med. JR Jumper today). I was 11 when I first qualified for the medal finals.

Then I got a real "horse" for $4,000 -- he was 15.2 hands. On him I did Regular Working hunter, small jr. hunter, Medal and Maclay and when we didn't do the Regulars we did the junior jumpers. He was at his best in the Regulars, but I was usually best in the jr. hunters. I won two Maclays and three medals on him and was the queen of Eq. on the flat.

Then I started to catch ride and I did everything from pregreens to modifed open jumpers. I also groomed for the barn (one time handling 19 horses by myself (thank god they had someone to muck!)), and when I could I would beg an Ammy to let me ride their horse in the medals or the Eq classes. I also braided-that's how I paid for two years of college. And when not at shows, I groomed at the barn or did turnouts to pay board. Sometimes that meant staying all night with a colicking horse or putting my hand deep inside a cut to put pressure on it to staunch the blood.

What I have learned in the down-time since is that it would have been much better to have a groom, wealthy parents to buy me many horses, and the benefit of big name trainers. What I got instead was a lot of experience in dealing with things, a good work ethic, and the pleaure of loving my horse because he's fun to be around (I know this because I groom him myself, as often as I can). I also learned I did not want to be a vet (couldn't handle the grossness), and I didn't want to be a professional rider.

Were the old days better? Maybe. In many ways I liked the simpler shows, with two distinct classes rather than the back to back rounds. I also really liked the old National Shows, the ones that had Saddlebreds and Morgans and Arabians and QHs in between the Hs and Js. I also liked the gallops between fences. But, the flowers today are nice, and the drug laws are a definite improvement, and the approved helmets are a good thing--for everyone. Before I complain too much about the low fences these days I have to overcome my fears of jumping 3' (I keep telling myself it's only because Jordan's a baby (4-years old) and when he grows up I'll be ready (like when he's 15!).

msj
Jan. 21, 2002, 09:59 AM
With automatic releases, outside courses that were solid fences, aikens, stone walls, solid post and rail fences, etc. Jr courses that started at 3'6" - the whole bit. Open shows that didn't have hunter classes but open jumper classes, like knock down and out, gambler's choice, etc that started at 4' and went up in 6" increments. I was a gutsy teenager that did well on a green hot mare - didn't think anything of it. You were expected to do it.

But I'll be honest. I'd have loved to have the option of having a low hunter class to start her out with showing like the riders have nowadays.

How many other 'older' riders are honest enough to admit the same?

msj

HN73
Jan. 21, 2002, 10:12 AM
You know, those shows we all pine for are still out there. They just call them "hunter trials" now.

I did one at Morven Park this fall. No counting strides, coops, natural fences, galloping.

It was really fun. I don't think too many "show hunters" were there. But I am of the mind set of "one horse, many disciplines". Ok, maybe its more I am of the "budget", not the "mind set". Regardless, if you want to go out and have those experiences they are still out there.

If someone put on a "horse show" with that included things like the outside course and
really natural looking elements, would people go?

***There's no place like first place.***

OhhMeow
Jan. 21, 2002, 10:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by coreene:
WITTY! You mean you were at my stable for GTE and we didn't even meet? Oh gee.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I was there too. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

~Hads~
&
~Wishful Thinking~

Coreene
Jan. 21, 2002, 10:28 AM
Okay, in August we will definitely do a BB party in Huntington Beach!

Coreene
Jan. 21, 2002, 10:45 AM
WITTY! You mean you were at my stable for GTE and we didn't even meet? Oh gee.

They were still running the childrens and aa jumpers on the grass this year, but a different ring. Nice to see them moving FORWARD.

But re the gallop - how many times do we see an eq class or an eq work-off where they're told "And gallop fence four," and no gallop at all.

Last Sunday we went out on trail and we galloped. I mean we really did a great big ass-haulin' GALLOP, where when you let the reins out one inch it feels like you just floored the Ferrari. And I wonder how many of today's riders have not felt that even in slower form with a nice hand gallop.

Of course, I did this in my dressage saddle, forgot to put my stirrups up a hole or two and was in two point all over the trail system. Rubbed a big hole where the fold of the left knee starts at the back and could not walk for three days without looking like I had a stick jammed up my backside, but it was SO worth it.

MAD
Jan. 21, 2002, 02:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally poted by MargaretF:
I have a wonderful picture of me and my pony at the Middleburg National in Foxcroft <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Post it, I am sure everyone would love to see it!

Atypical
Jan. 21, 2002, 02:42 PM
Oh My God! I am really sorry, but how long has it been since you've been to Colordao???? ADmittedly, the Western Slope is a bit more open, but here around Denver and Boulder I wish there were places to go and "Cowboy around for a summer."

I live in a cookie cutter neighborhood on a 1/4 of an acre plot of land. My horse is boarded on 37 acres of pasture smack in the middle of suburbia!!! Honestly there's a Kmart right down the street. I think another difference between now and then has to be the development of open space in Colordao!!

I'm sorry to laugh, but really!

dareacres
Jan. 21, 2002, 05:01 PM
Thanks for the welcomes /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I was thinking of how much less expensive it was to show also in the old days. I found an old receipt in my scrapbook from a show I went to in 1971 with three horses. The bill was less than two hundred dollars after they adjusted it for prize money. that included stalls and class fees. I was shocked at the cost of stalls when I started showing again! I am a shoe string budget rider and have always been so I don't like all the expense of the shows today, including all the fees for everything they can think of. The big show facility in this area charges price gouging prices for the shavings and won't allow you to bring your own either. The Gestapo! Pam

wtywmn4
Jan. 21, 2002, 05:08 PM
Ohhhh noooooo......Well actually it was last year 2000, but still ohhhhh noooooo. Am so sorry. Promise never to come to another show without telling you all....

Remember when they first started it? Pretty funny, everyone was riding around the trees looking for their next fence, and you know they had a ball. Wish they would leave it like that, but everything seems to change.. Eq classes with gallops to a fence, should be penalized for that. Have seen the same thing, no change what so ever. Ah well, is it our age? Are we following in the foot steps that have gone before? Complaining that is about how the shows have dummied down.

equitationlane
Jan. 21, 2002, 05:58 PM
Did anybody else ever go to the few shows that were held in Buffalo, WY? The outside course was in a FOREST! Find a distance? Forget it. Just try to miss the trees. It was really fun when you would actually find a distance through the trees and your horse decides he should go to the OTHER side of the small tree that was 50 or 60 feet in front of the jump you had just lined up.

Now that was a REALLY good time! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Alex Trebek
Jan. 21, 2002, 07:21 PM
This is an interesting topic, but as lauriep points out, it's easy to oversimplify. Much of the "olden days" was good, but some of it wasn't. Yes, horses weren't pounded as much as they are today, but drugs were, nonetheless, rampant in the '80's.
And, I'm sorry, but I too showed over the outside courses at Loudoun and Middleburg National, and people were NOT galloping any faster over those courses than they do, say, at Middleburg Classic today.
I do wish, however, that they still had that hunter classic at Upperville - imagine seeing the top hunters in the country negotiating a 4 foot log drop jump at an AA show!

wtywmn4
Jan. 21, 2002, 07:23 PM
OMG, almost forgot, the outside course at Pebble Beach! You would jump out of the ring, then proceed to jump thru the trees, literally, and gallop over the outside course. Part of which was always obscured by brush and the likes...then back into the ring... Actually it got quite funny sometimes. You would watch someone go off into the woods, hear various sounds, thumps, clunks, thrashing then galloping and out they would come. Someone even came out with a pine bough, portion, stuck in the forward panel of their saddle. Guess it was a short cut?? /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Bet you could tell some very good stories Alex...Remember the outside course at Devon, with hunt teams?

lauriep
Jan. 22, 2002, 06:14 AM
Are you talking about the C Bar B shows? If so, you are absolutely correct about their outside course! The year I was there, 1972, we also had a dust storm that was the most miserable experience I ever lived through!

Laurie

marianne
Jan. 22, 2002, 06:31 AM
between today and yesterday's riders, courses etc, I think is the development of land. How many shows from the 60's, 70's,80's even 90's are still in existence? How many stable at a place that allows for the freedom of learning to ride? I know that this is no excuse for the development of some of the styles in the show ring today but it is a factor.

equitationlane
Jan. 22, 2002, 07:44 AM
Yes, Laurie, that was it. Beautiful country. I will never forget Donald Cheska getting called in first, thrown out at the jog and getting tested on top of it! Father Dick was just beside himself.

It was pretty interesting as I had never seen very many people from west of the Rockies. Actually I didn't know too many people west of, oh say, Kansas or Iowa.

Who judged the shows?

MHM
Jan. 22, 2002, 09:01 AM
One of the few places left with those obstacles is Saratoga. It's not quite as much fun as it was before they split the one big hunter ring into two smaller ones, but you can still hear instructions at the ingate about exactly which tree to go around.

"If he's relaxed, go between those two trees, if you need more time to get him back to you, go around them. If you need that lead change, bounce him off the inside tree." LOL!

LaurieB
Jan. 22, 2002, 09:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MHM:
"If he's relaxed, go between those two trees, if you need more time to get him back to you, go around them. If you need that lead change, bounce him off the inside tree." LOL!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Remi and me
Jan. 22, 2002, 09:48 AM
I miss: Outside courses with real jumps with height that you have to gallop too.
I miss a jumper class where the fences are raised for the jump-off and you don't have to do your jump-off right after your clean round.
I miss the standards of expectation that would elimimate riders who were not secure in the base to ride over a 3'6" jump course.
I miss REAL HANDY HUNTER CLASSES where you were expected to dismount, mount, open and close gates etc.
I am sorry to see so many 3' classes in both hunter and jumpers. The standards have been lowered.
I miss meeting and talking with lots of real horseman at shows and events- not just riders.
I miss black jackets and canary breeches!
I miss the fact that your and your horse's ability was tested at a show and it did not matter
what you wore as long as you were clean and neat and so was your horse!
Okay, I'll go back to work now. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Coreene
Jan. 22, 2002, 09:54 AM
Remi, many wonderful memories there. LOVED the handy hunters. Couldn't get on from the ground now to save my life.

Remi and me
Jan. 22, 2002, 12:17 PM
I couldn't mount my horse from the ground either!
However, if there were real Handy Hunter classes maybe I'd be a little more inclined to work at it!
Or maybe the judge would be so kind as to hold my wheelchair so I could climb on it and get on my horse! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Coreene
Jan. 22, 2002, 12:24 PM
Either that or get my toe in, start swinging off one side of the horse and pull us both down. It would be scary.

Witty, it should be interesting to see what happens at "GTE" this year (I think now just called the Summer Classic). Tommy is not organizing it.

dkcbr
Jan. 22, 2002, 12:32 PM
But I'll be honest. I'd have loved to have the option of having a low hunter class to start her out with showing like the riders have nowadays.

How many other 'older' riders are honest enough to admit the same?

I'm both and "older" rider (hehe) and "honest" enough...

Gawd I remember the good old days: SO MUCH FUN.... the outside course at Foxcroft (old Middleburg Classic venue) or Dickey Farm or several other places... even Boumi Temple where we jumped out of the ring, did a tour of the outside (couple of jumps but not a whole outside course) and jumped back in...

We jumped solid stone walls, coops, etc.... It was so cool to have a scary random oxer lurking out on a course by itself, just waiting to ruin an otherwise rhythmic round... /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

I remember the handy hunter ordeals /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif of getting off and leading your horse over a crossrail, and other tricks occasionally required.

When we went to shows we made a day of it. None of this back-to-back hunter rounds. Jumpers we actually got excited about because the jumps were raised and the jump-offs were really exciting!! Not lost in the banality of back-to-back rounds. Bleah.

And jumpers were NOT EVER lower than 3'3" and usually were 3'9" to start. And yes they did go UP from there!

I feel so, so lucky to have had the opportunities I had and I regret that if I decided to get back into hunters, those opportunities no longer exist (or at least are hard to find).

Yet, I admit I would appreciate those low hunter, adult amateur, etc. classes available now. In fact, the virtual roadmap factor /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif , in which all your strides between jumps are pre-measured, would even be a "safe" choice for the more brittle-boned and reflex-impaired among us. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif And if I didn't have a good hunter horse but still wanted to jump, I could dabble in the various baby/puddle/beginning/whatever jumpers starting (I've seen prize lists) as low as two feet.

But still, it seems somewhat sad that most hunter/jumper showing has come to this... A lot of the romance and thrill has gone...

Dementia 13
Jan. 22, 2002, 12:36 PM
even Boumi Temple where we jumped out of the ring, did a tour of the outside (couple of jumps but not a whole outside course) and jumped back in...
______________________________

Was that held at McDonough School? If so, I remember doing that course in a hunt teams class when I was at Oldfields School.

Coreene
Jan. 22, 2002, 12:43 PM
Have you ever jumped out of the ring BY ACCIDENT???

Remi and me
Jan. 22, 2002, 12:52 PM
No, but I've jumped into a jumper ring once by accident.
I was riding a little stallion and he was getting a little anxious as we were on deck at the ingate
and it might have had something to do with the fact that the horse in the ring was a mare in heat.... Anyway the mare went past us on the inside of the ring and he reared straight up and went over the ingate. All's I remember was a lot of people scrambling out of the way (jump crew).
As the other horse was actually finished and headed out the outgate - the judge let us get settled and do our round. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

sigh
Jan. 22, 2002, 01:11 PM
Don't have much to add on this thread since I'm a "young'un," but we have a step jump in our outdoor ring. You jump your course, then gallop up to the step jump and gallop up the hill. It is so much fun! We used to have jumps on the hill too, but we haven't for a few years. We have a grob, too, with a jump at the bottom of the ditch. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Coreene
Jan. 22, 2002, 01:22 PM
- the important question is how did you do in that class????

ccoronios
Jan. 22, 2002, 01:26 PM
oh my yes!!!! A true test of training and flexibility (horse & rider!!)

Remi and me
Jan. 22, 2002, 01:31 PM
It was a Prelim class - we went clean in the first round. He wasn't a speed horse though - I rode him in working hunter and ami hunter too.
I believe we got beat on time - no faults though /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif 2nd or 3rd. My memory is fuzzy. I know we didn't win but he was always clean first round. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

larosa90
Jan. 22, 2002, 02:09 PM
We had the same judges that everyone else used. My fave was always Walter "Jimmy" Lee -- For whatever reason, and with one notable exception, I always rode really well when he was the judge. The exception was a spactacular refusal/crash that involved both paramedics and vets, but in the end only required a few days off for both me and my horse.

What I remember was having top judges, who at the time were well known (I have forgotten them now though). Maybe it is because we had so few shows that we went all out?

Liza Dennehy is now a prominant hunter judge, so Colorado apparently imports and exports judges today!

halfhalt
Jan. 22, 2002, 02:16 PM
at the Royal manitoba winter fair in Brandon, up here in Canada, several times over the past 5 years. What a nice man! and his judging seemed to make sense even to me...

InWhyCee
Jan. 22, 2002, 02:30 PM
No, but I had an evil hunter pony liked to veer to the right and jump out of the ring for the hell of it... Alas, I was in 4-H in the mid-80s, and we jumped outside all the time because we had no other option... we also had rain, mud, impossible distances, coops, walls, and a three-foot minimum for EQ.

Of course, I was sporting rust breeches, a velvet-collared melton, and a velvet-covered eggshell helmet with the chinstrap cut out.

"Any ride is good ride if you dismount voluntarily."

"Go on, Bill... This is no place for a pony."

Alex Trebek
Jan. 22, 2002, 06:04 PM
And speaking of Jimmy Lee......there was a "legend" that I've never been able to confirm that Jane Womble once jumped out of the ring at Blowing Rock, by accident, because it was so foggy. Does anyone know if this was true?!

DMK
Jan. 22, 2002, 06:16 PM
Alex, I haven't heard that rumor, but I think it's safe to say BR gets THAT foggy!!!

As for Jimmy Lee, I really like showing when he's judging - he sort of liked my leggy TB (of course, as I recall, I was also finding all the fences that weekend).

***An optimist thinks we are living in the best of all times...
A pessimist fears this is true.***

lauriep
Jan. 22, 2002, 06:38 PM
but I also heard it! If enough people hear it, doesn't that make it true?

Laurie

DMK
Jan. 22, 2002, 06:59 PM
Yes, Laurie, I believe it does...

Now, about that DMK... haven't you heard she is talented, witty, lovely and gracious? And humble, let's NOT forget humble!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

***An optimist thinks we are living in the best of all times...
A pessimist fears this is true.***

Jane
Jan. 22, 2002, 07:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MHM:
If you need that lead change, bounce him off the inside tree." LOL!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ROTF!

BTW, I am very fortunate that I have a trainer in the same league as Chanda's godfather and Leesa's
trainer, a true horseman. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

MHM
Jan. 22, 2002, 07:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lauriep:
but I also heard it! If enough people hear it, doesn't that make it true?

Laurie<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That certainly seems to be the case in the horse business!

Let's test this out-
Did you hear the story about then-President Clinton and a famous horseman?

wtywmn4
Jan. 22, 2002, 07:56 PM
Ahhhhh DMK, you should ask himself. He would be only to happy to relate the story.... /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

lauriep
Jan. 23, 2002, 05:58 AM
what about the part about enough people hearing it to make it true? /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Laurie

bellboots
Jan. 23, 2002, 06:14 AM
I am one of those people who showed alot in the 80's (both local and A) and just recently started going to (but not showing in) shows again.

The biggest thing that I have noticed is that on the local level, there is a class for everyone. Divisions have 2 or 3 different fence heights in each o/f class, etc. When I showed, your horse was either "green" or not, and the divisions had one fence height (ie: Childrens was 3 ft, *not* 2'6, 2'9 and 3'0).

Also, it seems now that the horses are more "high maintenance" than they used to be. I had a great large pony that was a "packer" at the shows, but in the off season, we fox hunted, did hunter paces, etc. I even took her to the beach for spring break - she would stay in our back yard for a week!

Remi and me
Jan. 23, 2002, 07:30 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by InWhyCee:

Of course, I was sporting rust breeches, a velvet-collared melton, and a velvet-covered eggshell helmet with the chinstrap cut out.

InWhyCee, you fashion diva you! I wish rust breeches were in now - they hide a lot of dirt!
And I still love velvet collars! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

DMK
Jan. 23, 2002, 08:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lauriep:
what about the part about enough people hearing it to make it true? /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Laurie<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Just doin' my bit to make it true /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

***An optimist thinks we are living in the best of all times...
A pessimist fears this is true.***

rockstarr
Jan. 23, 2002, 08:45 AM
I'm so late in joining the party, apologies.

All I can really add is that I always did everything myself, first out of necessity, and then because I enjoyed it. Mucking, bathing, braiding, wrapping, shipping, the whole nine yards. I wouldn't trade it. And I will be eternally bonded to my old pony for the countless hours we would spend together while I did all these chores and more.

One thing I really miss is children dressing like children. I bristle at a child in tall boots on a small or medium pony. I think they look like freaky Mini-me action figures, all dressed up like grownups on an itsy bitsy pony. I wore paddock straps, on a large pony, until I was 14 and finally tall enough for big-girl boots.

And, oh yes, I have jumped out of the ring by accident. In the early 80s, I jumped fences one and two on a brisk morning, then pointed my pony at the corner in order to (improperly) coerce him into doing a flying change during his cantankerous green year. (Cantankerous, by the way, because we went from 18" short stirrup fences to 3' large greens). He took it literally and jumped right out of the ring. I was miffed, because I had only gotten two jumps out of the class, and I knew I was going to hear it from my parents about how we just wasted a bunch of money for me to blow it by "exiting" the ring prematurely.

So on the other side of the fence, in mid-canter stride, my inner monologue went something like this: "Oh (expletive -- yes, I was prolific with expletives at 12), that was stupid. I wonder if anyone will notice if I just jump back in there?" (steers pony back toward ring rail, he perks his ears, gets a great "spot" and sails back into the ring in fine form, set up nicely for the next diagonal line). To our credit, it was pretty seamless -- a minor diversion -- yet appalling, in terms of etiquette. I'm pretty sure the bleachers gasped, collectively. And, looking back, those kinds of memories are some of the best I have. Anytime you can shock or disgust a whole crowd of people in the bleachers, you're doing a fine job, in my opinion! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif And, interestingly, I wasn't excused. Management just let me jump back in and finish up. But that could be because their mouths were still gaping open.

I'm sure there are more thrills and spills in store for spectators in my neck of the woods. The absolute MINUTE rust breeches come back in style, I'm all over it. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

InWhyCee
Jan. 23, 2002, 08:58 AM
Remi, et al, start a trend! If bellbottoms, maxicoats, and tube tops can make a return, so can rust breeches! Let the lemmings have their ugly TS breeches, the TSAU Clique* knows better...

*"Tailored Sportsmen Are Ugly"

"Any ride is good ride if you dismount voluntarily."

"Go on, Bill... This is no place for a pony."

MAD
Jan. 23, 2002, 09:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>And speaking of Jimmy Lee......there was a "legend" that I've never been able to confirm that Jane Womble once jumped out of the ring at Blowing Rock, by accident, because it was so foggy. Does anyone know if this was true?! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know about Jane Womble, but I sure watched Armand Leone's horse (can't remember which one) jump out of the Grand Prix ring at Tampa one year. He smacked the horse and jumped back in.

ccoronios
Jan. 23, 2002, 11:11 AM
that pony adventure is just TOO funny....

lauriep
Jan. 23, 2002, 11:19 AM
I think that was Wallenstein. I was there too, and his groom, Martha Bowen, was soooo embarrassed! When he first came to this country, he was VERY bull-headed about where HE wanted to go. After much work, he became very rideable and a real pet.

Laurie

rockstarr
Jan. 23, 2002, 11:46 AM
thanks, Carol ...

I like to think of that maneuver as having a high degree of difficulty, and therefore worth MORE impressive marks on the judges card. It was, literally, an "in and out." /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Remi and me
Jan. 23, 2002, 12:31 PM
Rockstarr you do rock!
Ryan - I forgot all about jogging in for soundness
after the hunter over fences classes. Do they still do that. I used to hate it for conformation classes because my little stallion was always called at the top of the order but got placed down because of his big ugle knees!
InWhyCee - I've been pushing the fashion police
with my old canaray Harry Halls.I guess I will add rust breeches to my wardrobe now! Maybe we can start a new trend! Fashions divas we are! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Duffy
Jan. 23, 2002, 12:35 PM
I wore my rust breeches at one "A" show last year and was Champion in the Older Adults. Hmmm...I think that was the only time I was Champion all year... /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Coreene
Jan. 23, 2002, 12:38 PM
When / If I ever show over fences again ("Not mit mein ass you don't nott to" says Willem), I will wear RUST BREECHES ONLY. For the benny of everyone who would see me in breeches in public.

Remi and me
Jan. 23, 2002, 12:50 PM
Should I push this fashion thing further? Should I dust off my old custom made BROWN vogel field boots which are in their late 20's? /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

rockstarr
Jan. 23, 2002, 01:20 PM
... that on this day, January 23, 2002, rust breeches are -- from this point forward -- extraordinarily chic and the mark of a discriminating, top-tier equestrian. Hear ye, hear ye!

The rockstarr has spoken.

hoopoe
Jan. 23, 2002, 01:30 PM
Remi, only if you have a brown hunt cap, like my first one. I still have the helmet but it has been recovered in black.

Far removed from an ASTM. Paid 35$ for it ( a fortune to me)in 1973. It is a McHal and I am convinced that it saved my life on my one and only "serious" fall.

then again some people who know me think that fall did perminant damage. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

_\\]
-- * > hoopoe
The ancient Greeks did not write obituaries. They only wanted to know if you had a passion.

InWhyCee
Jan. 23, 2002, 02:14 PM
Remi, you diva! I am jealous...

As the charter member of the TSAU* Clique, I'm looking forward to owning a tall black horse someday, so I can wear CANARY breeches, a WHITE shirt, and a BLACK coat. Oooo-la-la!

* "Tailored Sportsmen Are Ugly"
_____________________________________________

"Any ride is good ride if you dismount voluntarily."

"Go on, Bill... This is no place for a pony."

Coreene
Jan. 23, 2002, 02:21 PM
InWhyCee, tonight I will dig up a photo of me wearing exactly that. I just LUUUUUUUUUURVE canary breeches.

Chef wore a great pair of canary TS at a show in HB in August, and there were many ooohs and aahs.

Jane
Jan. 23, 2002, 02:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Remi and me:
Should I push this fashion thing further? Should I dust off my old custom made BROWN vogel field boots which are in their late 20's? /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

that sounds fab....I say go for it!!!!!

cgn38
Jan. 23, 2002, 03:34 PM
If I fit into my rust breeches this summer, I will wear them /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif I will also wear my gray Harry Halls /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

wtywmn4
Jan. 23, 2002, 05:05 PM
Rust!

So we dig them out, hidden away in the closet. Along with the lovely pair of mahogeny colored Dehner Field boots....
Plus, not brown, but...........Navy Blue hard hat....
/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

halfhalt
Jan. 24, 2002, 07:33 AM
When we were in England a few years ago i snuck into a show and also bought a few magazines - and blue hats were quite common. So probably we North Americans are just behind the wave.

Also, brown definitely is back in boots...

I also saw these neat patterns worked into the hair on the butts of the horses - no idea how they did it.

[This message was edited by halfhalt on Jan. 24, 2002 at 10:47 AM.]

Catalina
Jan. 24, 2002, 07:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Remi and me:
I forgot all about jogging in for soundness
after the hunter over fences classes. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I used to love that! Especially when I knew I put in a good trip, so I would wait by the rail, saddle stripped off my horse, to be called back in the ring. It was always cool, too, when I would get called in towards the back of the pack and then get moved forward. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Did anybody else ever cut those dorky plastic chin cups off of the elastic strap of your unapproved helmet? And then not even wear the strap?

I also miss the maiden, novice and limit divisions.

Kirsten
Jan. 24, 2002, 08:00 AM
I showed in my brown field boots all season last year... and loved it! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Linny
Jan. 24, 2002, 10:04 AM
Remember the elasic chinstraps witht he little plastic chin cups? We used to wear the chin cups above the brim of the hats. I'd go for rust breeches if you can prove that they're slimming. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif I loved my canary H Halls with my black hunt coat but the idea of putting my (now far wider) arse into yellow breeches makes me nervous.
I also loved jogging. I had one horse though with white markings above the knee on on the inside of a foreleg. Twice I was told by judges that he was off! I actually had to jog him on cement for a steward at one show to prove his soundness.

BEQS clique.
The early bird may get the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese.

Duffy
Jan. 24, 2002, 10:18 AM
Zone 3 still jogs in the Adults, which is fine, unless it's nasty, yucky, muddy, hot, cold...You get the idea! On the positive side, it's nice to actually receive your ribbon with your fellow Adults IN the ring, as opposed to whenever someone feels like picking up a ribbon from the Starter outside the ring.

Remi and me
Jan. 24, 2002, 10:57 AM
I'm beyond the point of worrying how my big behind looks in any color breeches! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I think the judge should just give me credit for showing up on my horse without my wheelchair handy. If they only saw me try to mount from the ground... /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Remi and me
Jan. 24, 2002, 11:00 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by cfc:
"I forgot all about jogging in for soundness
after the hunter over fences classes.I used to love that! Especially when I knew I put in a good trip, so I would wait by the rail, saddle stripped off my horse, to be called back in the ring. It was always cool, too, when I would get called in towards the back of the pack and then get moved forward. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif"

Sure, cool for you. I always went the other direction in the line up! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Elghund2
Jan. 24, 2002, 11:00 AM
I had heard that in the past riders were expected to gallop in the hack. Is this true? I have never seen it done in any flat class I have watched.

Catalina
Jan. 24, 2002, 11:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elghund2:
I had heard that in the past riders were expected to gallop in the hack. Is this true? I have never seen it done in any flat class I have watched.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They used to ask for a 'hand' gallop, in which you got into 2 point and let the horse lengthen its stride.

InWhyCee
Jan. 24, 2002, 11:06 AM
Yes, I remember cutting the little plastic cups OFF (they caused chin pimples!) and tucking the chinstrap into my dainty little helmet -- which fit PERFECTLY. Sigh...

Eglhund2: Yes, it's been done! It was fun, too -- late fall 4-H shows, lots of QH Queens who had never galloped before and didn't care to then; my friends and I terrorized them by actually galloping...

"Any ride is good ride if you dismount voluntarily."

"Go on, Bill... This is no place for a pony."

Remi and me
Jan. 24, 2002, 11:16 AM
Was so much fun! Especially if you had a naughty horse or two in the ring that would either buck or take off! Oh those were the days...no lawsuits,no insurance, no worries! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SillyHorse
Jan. 24, 2002, 11:42 AM
I want more pictures! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

dkcbr
Jan. 24, 2002, 12:00 PM
I'm old so maybe I don't remember right /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif but I believe they pulled no more than eight to haul a** -- uh, I mean hand gallop, at a time.

<creak of rocking chair on front porch> Yup, we 'uns used to hack faster than these riders go around the hunter courses today... <creak creak>

/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Remi and me
Jan. 24, 2002, 12:12 PM
/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
All's I know is in my nursing home the sound of
Led Zepplin and the Byrds rule! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

lauriep
Jan. 24, 2002, 01:01 PM
was supposed to be more than lengthening of stride! Their should be a significant increase in pace; it isn't an "extended canter" but a true contolled gallop. Unfortunately, even then, judges who rewarded the true hand gallop were few and far between.

Laurie

dkcbr
Jan. 24, 2002, 03:12 PM
Remi, please send me an application form for your nursing home. And crank up the L.Z.! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

oops -- Hunter content: umm suddenly I really am wondering whether the death of the hand-gallop coincides with all the other dilutions that many feel are part of Hunters today. The lack of forward pace, the fixation with measuring related distances and counting strides, etc.

wtywmn4
Jan. 24, 2002, 04:28 PM
lauriep, how very true. Hand gallops weren't always rewarded. Thus the extended canters we now see....Go figure. /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Catalina
Jan. 25, 2002, 06:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lauriep:
was supposed to be more than lengthening of stride! Their should be a significant increase in pace; it isn't an "extended canter" but a true contolled gallop. Unfortunately, even then, judges who rewarded the true hand gallop were few and far between.

Laurie<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was definately rare that a true hand gallop occurred! It was definately most often just a stride lenghtening. I think that trainers and parents were afraid of kids getting hurt, because we were rarely allowed to do the true hand gallop. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

MHM
Jan. 25, 2002, 06:59 AM
I love to use the hand gallop in the Medal tests- it really separates the riders from the posers.

We had a kid testing in the Medal at WEF two years ago, and she REALLY did hand gallop in the test. I was glad to see her take a shot, but everyone at the ingate thought she overdid it- wrong, she won the class. I wish I could remember who that judge was!

lauriep
Jan. 25, 2002, 07:08 AM
like that was the correct hand gallop, which it wasn't. They really did hand gallop for the most part in the 60s, 70's and early 80's. But enough didn't, and still placed well, that it soon wasn't a requirement anymore.

Laurie

ccoronios
Jan. 25, 2002, 07:17 AM
yup to above - it IS more than a lengthening of stride or extension; it DID used to be called for - hand gallop and hold hard, anyone???; when it was done on the outside courses where we also jumped, it often WAS a true hand gallop; and AHSA rules called for no more than 8 to gallop at one time.

Imagine my reaction at my first Arab Nationals - in the SMALL arena in Louisville - in a class of about 20 (+?) - when they were ALL asked to hand gallop!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif And DID. And all those "crazy Arabs" (that is what everyone says about them, isn't it??) HAND GALLOPED - all at once - around that little ring - and NOBODY GOT KILLED. 'magine that!!! It's called training!

I WON'T discuss the riders' positions.

Janet
Jan. 25, 2002, 07:27 AM
Yes, at least some of us did a real hand gallop. I would hand gallop as fast as anyone, and still be the first one stopped when they said "hold hard". But unfortunately that rarely compensated for my horse's somewhat choppy trot, and his color.

867-5309
Jan. 25, 2002, 08:05 AM
What is the story you alluded to earlier in the thread on Prez Clinton and the equestrian? (Sounds like a bad punchline is coming doesn't it?)

/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

"Are you doing the litmus configuration?"
~Jonathan Mardukis~
Midnight Run

Catalina
Jan. 25, 2002, 08:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lauriep:
like that was the correct hand gallop, which it wasn't. They really did hand gallop for the most part in the 60s, 70's and early 80's. But enough didn't, and still placed well, that it soon wasn't a requirement anymore.

Laurie<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That what one gets when they type fast (not enough detail)!
/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I do remember many a time in the 11 & under classes just careening around the ring on my wonderful QH. What fun that was.

MHM
Jan. 25, 2002, 08:48 AM
I heard a story ~5-6 years ago about Clinton and a horse person having a "meeting." /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Several people mentioned it at the time, so according to LaurieP's theory, it must have been true.

The funniest part was at first I misunderstood it, and thought said meeting HAPPENED at Harrisburg, when actually my source HEARD the story at Harrisburg.

So all I could think was, "What was Clinton doing at Harrisburg?? I never saw him there!"

buryinghill1
Jan. 25, 2002, 08:55 AM
We learned horsemanship from "old" trainers and the gentle-handed grooms - not from the internet (the what? /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif )

Kids on the "A" circuit could tack up their own horses.

You could WIN AN ARABIAN at THE GARDEN.
If you showed at THE GARDEN you were godlike.
If you WENT to THE GARDEN you bought a "program."
We put on our patent-leather shoes and "good clothes."
We put our hand over our hearts when the anthem was played (after Frank Chapot probably won on Good Twist!). We probably slept with our program that night.
Maybe you snuck into the stable area. Awesome.
Back then. Frank was a god.
Back then. Misty Hills had the stalls by the ingate!
Victor hollered - NEXT HORSE PLEASE, BOB MILLER.

No horse? We built jumps in the front yard, and could do a wicked flying change. Can you still see those hands outstretched, holding imaginary reins?

Bob Miller did the stabling. Everywhere.

Back then. Emerson was god-like already.

Back then. Alex Dunaif won the Maclay with a FAT noseband! No liverpools, end jumps, countercanter.

Indio? /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Hampton what? /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Then... still makes me smile... now. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

equitationlane
Jan. 25, 2002, 09:23 AM
Are you talking about the Misty Hills from Troy?

Remi and me
Jan. 25, 2002, 09:25 AM
My dogs were the best jumpers ever in my neighborhood! I used to hold "horse shows" in the neighborhood - either "horseless people" or "horseless with dogs".

Catalina
Jan. 25, 2002, 09:29 AM
I am glad to see that I am not the only one who trained my dogs to jump! I even taught my cat and I would hold "shows" for the neighboorhood. I am pretty sure my parents videotaped one. I should dig that tape out for a good laugh! /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

buryinghill1
Jan. 25, 2002, 09:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HooDooToo:
Are you talking about the Misty Hills from Troy?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Linny
Jan. 25, 2002, 10:00 AM
My dog Max was the Grand Prix dog Champion of Main Ave back in the 70's! We used those 3 part plastic folding lounge chairs for jumps.

BEQS clique.
The early bird may get the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese.

867-5309
Jan. 25, 2002, 10:22 AM
Barnet, VT?? BARNET, VT! I weekend North and East of you, as N & E as you can get in VT. How about a NEK clique? :--) Email me.............

Misty Hills, that reminds me of a trivia question, perhaps to post over on Double Jeop!

"Are you doing the litmus configuration?"
~Jonathan Mardukis~
Midnight Run

dkcbr
Jan. 25, 2002, 11:11 AM
so we used to do "horses" with our dogs -- between us, we had a German Shepherd/Collie mix, a Weimaraner, and a Chesapeake Bay Retriever. They made great horses! (My friend's Dachshund was too small -- "mini"s hadn't been invented yet /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .)

We even bought real rubber curries and dandy brushes to "groom" our "horses" with. We bought those at the Sears Roebuck & Co. store -- okay, how old am I?! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Whenever I start whining about this or that with my horses, I remember that constant longing for them in childhood... and generally I shut up then. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

equitationlane
Jan. 25, 2002, 11:28 AM
e-mail me @equitationlane@yahoo.com. Pretty zippy e-mail address, isn't it? /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

buryinghill1
Jan. 25, 2002, 11:31 AM
/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

lauriep
Jan. 25, 2002, 11:38 AM
Another name from the past! What a terrific person she was! Is she still around?

Laurie

aubreyuga
Jan. 25, 2002, 11:41 AM
unhappy that there are 3' and smaller divisions? Those divisions give people like me, who definitely aren't ready for 3'6, the practice, confidence, etc that we will need when we are ready to move up. I can't see why people are distressed about this?

Are those of us who aren't ready for 3'6 (and many will never be!) not supposed to show? Think of all the people who start riding later in life and not as 6 year olds. What are THOSE people supposed to do?

That is a very elitist point of view in my opinion. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

buryinghill1
Jan. 25, 2002, 11:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aubreyuga:
That is a very elitist point of view in my opinion. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree. Ya just have to read the Indio prize list to see what people WANT and what MAKES $ for the business. If the troops want 2'6", give 'em what they want.
And yes, Lauriep, Alex is "still around." (Ha! Another trivia question idea!)

/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

lauriep
Jan. 25, 2002, 11:47 AM
the lower divisions don't belong at the A shows. The schooling, B & C circuits are where 3' and under prep should take place.

But I do like the A/A idea for the older folks to stay competitive. The idea has just run amuck with all the low divisions they have now.

And that is one of the biggest differences between then and now: if you couldn't jump 3'6", there wasn't a class for you at the A shows (until the advent of pre-green).

Laurie

ccoronios
Jan. 25, 2002, 11:56 AM
Are you from the Capital District? Did you ride at Misty Hills?
When I decided my Ap would be a better saddle seat horse than hunter (in the breed show world trying to become peanut pushers), I took lessons there for most of a year.
I still see Maynard at a few shows every year - and Duke, god bless him.

buryinghill1
Jan. 25, 2002, 12:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ccoronios:
Did you ride at Misty Hills? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nope, Never been to Troy, NY, and not from Capital District (is that Albany,NY?). I just remember the tack room by the ingate at The Garden (back then).

msj
Jan. 25, 2002, 12:14 PM
Why are so many people unhappy that there are 3' and smaller divisions? Those divisions give people like me, who definitely aren't ready for 3'6, the practice, confidence, etc that we will need when we are ready to move up. I can't see why people are distressed about this?
Are those of us who aren't ready for 3'6 (and many will never be!) not supposed to show? Think of all the people who start riding later in life and not as 6 year olds. What are THOSE people supposed to do?

Go back to page 3 and find my post. Even though I was one of the people in the 60's that did the jrs. at 3'6" and jumpers at 4'+, I would have loved to have had a low hunter class to start my green horse in. I also didn't start to ride until I was 15 and was lucky to get my first horse at 16.

Most of us are just remenising (sp??)about what we had to do in the old days. Let us old farts have our memories, please.

msj

Smiles
Jan. 25, 2002, 01:40 PM
Well I'm way late in the game here, but no one else mention this. So back in the late 70's and 80's you had stable hands stay with the horses all night because of the whole insurence scandle thing. Our shoer told use he used to carry a gun to protect the horses. He also said that trainers would hire "hit men" to do their dirty work if they didn't like another trainer or if a horse was beating them! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

ALSO if someone has a pic of a jump with a Coop please post it cause I don't think I've ever seen one!!!!

buryinghill2
Jan. 25, 2002, 01:49 PM
Remember YD and LaurieP and anyone else?
"You are now in a nonsmoking area...."

I still hear this in my nightmares!

buryinghill1
Jan. 25, 2002, 02:01 PM
"BY OH-DAH OF DUH NEW YAWK FIYAH COMMISHUNUH...
YOU AH NOW IN A NO SMOW-KING AIR-RE-YUH."

Then - smokers are bad
Now - smokers worse than taliban

(Ex-smokers /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif worst of all!)

lauriep
Jan. 25, 2002, 06:55 PM
do I remember! Think about the variety of objects we stuffed in those speakers to TRY and get a break from it!

AAAAAAAAGHHH!

Another NY memory: Seaweed always worked for the saddlehorse people just inside the RIGHT side entrance to the barns. He always had a major body clipping concession going, so you got a lot of free shots of Seaweed's posterior as he bent over to clip under the belly. Often the first thing I would see as I entered the barn...

Laurie

upperco
Jan. 26, 2002, 05:19 AM
The biggest difference that I have read about,as I wasn't at the shows in the 70's and early 80's,is that in the old days the shows seemed to be run by various clubs either for fun or as a fund raiser.I don't think there were professional managers and no "circuits"

Linny
Jan. 26, 2002, 08:28 AM
A friend of mine rode at Misty Hills back then. I never set foot in the place though. I guess she had some nice horses.

As an "older" adult returning after a long break I like 3'0 divisions. I was a Medal/MacLay rider as a jr (remember that term, pre "big eq") but 3'6 looks awful big to me right now.

BEQS clique.
The early bird may get the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese.

Evelyne
Jan. 26, 2002, 05:48 PM
Those outdoor courses sound AWESOME! I would love to try them!!! However, even without access to such fences & courses, a certain level of...improvisation is possible. (After all, sliding pole gates were MEANT to be jumped instead of opened /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

"You're only young once, but you can remain immature indefinitely."

OhhMeow
Jan. 27, 2002, 09:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Remi and me:
My dogs were the best jumpers ever in my neighborhood! I used to hold "horse shows" in the neighborhood - either "horseless people" or "horseless with dogs".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hahahahaha... ahhh, memories! I taught both my German Shepherds to jump. Bertha (named, of course, for the Grateful Dead song) was more of a jumper variety, and Mutz, who was older at the time, was more of the old reliable Childrens Hunter of Dogs... hahaha... They also longed and knew how to walk, trot, and canter... Poor things.

~Hads~
&
~Wishful Thinking~

OhhMeow
Jan. 27, 2002, 09:19 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by dkcbr:
Chesapeake Bay Retriever. QUOTE]


My family and I currently have a Chessie... we love him, he is an adorable big chubby guy... but he is um... more of a very fancy moving pleasure horse variety, and (devastating as it was to me when we got him) he failed to learn to jump or longe.

~Hads~
&
~Wishful Thinking~

upperco
Jan. 28, 2002, 06:12 AM
How about starting at nine in the moorning and finishing in time to take a shower before going out to dinner with friends.

Sea Urchin
Jan. 28, 2002, 06:21 AM
And GOOD exhibitor parties several nights at EVERY show.

buryinghill1
Jan. 28, 2002, 06:27 AM
/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

lauriep
Jan. 28, 2002, 08:00 AM
Sometimes, even a NAP! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Laurie

wtywmn4
Jan. 28, 2002, 08:53 AM
Oh upperco, remember taking a nap at the Maryland Pony Show, /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Under a shady tree, with lunch to boot! Boy, really miss those times when we could have a nice leisurely dinner, go back to the barn, night check everyone, then to bed. Now you are lucky if you're able to grab something to eat, do up the horses and be in bed by 10! Thats when showing was civilized, well sort of. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Merry
Jan. 28, 2002, 04:31 PM
Going out to dinner with friends? Wow, what a concept! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

That used to be standard behavior. Our whole barn used to eat Thanksgiving dinner at the Biltmore Hotel in Santa Barbara during the turkey show. That was the main draw for me "back then": show, then hang out with my friends and sister.

Now, anymore, it's all I can do to make it through the marathon of classes, beg someone to pull my boots off, and crash at the hotel before 8pm. Man, what would I do without room service? /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

"You just keep thinkin', Butch. That's what you're good at." -- The Sundance Kid

CBS
Jan. 28, 2002, 04:50 PM
What pony did you used to show, or ponies, back in the 70's, at Loudon and Middleburg? I may remember you! I used to love showing at Loudon, with the trees in the main ring, and the outside course. If I recall, we would leave loudon and show at Upperville, then I think Warrenton. I miss the good old days!

Alex Trebek
Jan. 28, 2002, 05:39 PM
Who did YOU show back then, CBS?! And who remembers when Upperville had a separate jr. and pony show, the Upperville Junior and Pony Show? Wow - I'd forgotten that myself until you mentioned showing after Loudoun.

lauriep
Jan. 29, 2002, 05:35 AM
was Gwynedd Silver Seal, "Teddy."

Laurie

poltroon
Jan. 29, 2002, 12:52 PM
I was impressed to see how casually 'terrain' jumps were incorporated in almost jumping sequence they showed - grobs, banks, etc. I'd almost forgotten that.

What great footage of the scene in the 60's!

dareacres
Jan. 30, 2002, 05:25 PM
I saw the movie many years ago when it first came out. I would love a copy if anyone out there taped it? /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Pam