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View Full Version : Your dog is not your child (or an accessory)



Slewdledo
Apr. 8, 2012, 02:19 AM
Please don't bring it into the grocery store, or the restaurant, or the bank. Please also refrain from carrying it around in your purse.

My dog comes everywhere with me. In the car. He stays in the car. When we go to the park, he gets out. Otherwise, he remains in the car.

jetsmom
Apr. 8, 2012, 02:21 AM
Leaving a dog in a car is pretty dangerous. They can be stolen, or if temps rise (even in the 70's) cars can get hot and dogs can die.

Slewdledo
Apr. 8, 2012, 02:24 AM
If it's hot (which it hasn't been here for over a year) he stays home.

There is no excuse for bringing a non-service dog into a place of business.

Alagirl
Apr. 8, 2012, 02:27 AM
well, the grocery store...k, not good.

Restaurant...weeeeelllll.....maybe not either....

but the bank? won't hurt nuttin....and if the dog fits in the purse, it can be punted quiet far! :D

jetsmom
Apr. 8, 2012, 02:27 AM
If it's hot (which it hasn't been here for over a year) he stays home.

There is no excuse for bringing a non-service dog into a place of business.

Thanks for clarifying...and I agree!

BasqueMom
Apr. 8, 2012, 04:10 AM
Our dogs love to go for a ride. The nearest big town for shopping has decided no dogs in cars....yeah, I understand it. But we don't leave them in
warm days...one of us runs in and other stays or gets gas with them. However, if it's 40 degrees out, they will be just fine. Newer Expedition has a sunroof...great venting hot air and we don't have to roll the windows very far. Also rear side windows vent outwards (known as the fart relief valves when moving).

Since they are both 80 pounders, they won't be in my purse. They adore the drive through window at the bank because they get doggie treats.
McDonalds or something like that is also a big deal because they to split a
McDouble. But I'd never think of taking them inside a restaurent. However,
our local humane society has a take doggy to lunch event...it's in the warmer weather and think the restaurant has a large outdoor eating area where it's held.

Sure miss the Colorado weather where you could take them far more often
than we can here. Some days, DH won't even consider taking them along because the car is so hot and takes too long to cool down for them. At $4
a gallon, not a lot of idling going on these days to cool it down.

Taking them into Petsmart is one thing...the grocery store, no way!

saaskya
Apr. 8, 2012, 07:49 AM
my dog loves the ladies at dover :)

but i get super peeved about dogs in food service establishments.

Petstorejunkie
Apr. 8, 2012, 08:09 AM
I don't mind it at all. I don't like seeing them in food service places, unless on the patio. I wish there were more dog friendly places around.

They aren't children, they are dogs, but they are members of the family.

enjoytheride
Apr. 8, 2012, 08:25 AM
I agree, what reason do you have for bringing a dog into a freaking bank? Or a Walmart? Come on.

EqTrainer
Apr. 8, 2012, 08:36 AM
Not to hijack but.. A moment to remind people that a horse is not a dog! If you want a dog, get a dog. If you want a dog, dont get a horse. Take the time to learn the difference!

Back on topic - the only REAL way to socialize puppies is to take them everywhere. Want to know why so many dogs act retarded and ill mannered? Cause Pookie never got out into the real world and was taught/expected to learn to deal. Go to Europe. Dogs everywhere, getting along without all this drama.

yv0nne
Apr. 8, 2012, 08:39 AM
I don't know too many people buying horses to compensate for wanting a dog?

My dog comes to my studio everyday I go. He lays under the desk& behaves appropriately when clients are there. He is well behaved& if that ever changes, the poor boy loses his privileges! He doesn't go anywhere else, though. I can't imagine WHY I would take my dog to the bank ..

Windsor1
Apr. 8, 2012, 08:41 AM
I agree, what reason do you have for bringing a dog into a freaking bank?

Maybe it wants to open a checking account.

EqTrainer
Apr. 8, 2012, 08:44 AM
I don't know too many people buying horses to compensate for wanting a dog?

My dog comes to my studio everyday I go. He lays under the desk& behaves appropriately when clients are there. He is well behaved& if that ever changes, the poor boy loses his privileges! He doesn't go anywhere else, though. I can't imagine WHY I would take my dog to the bank ..

They arent compensating. They are confused :lol: dogs and horses dont act the same, dont bond the same and you shouldnt want them to. As a horse trainer, I can tell you that people who have dogs and are very close to them and have done a good job trainining them often struggle with their horses. Simply.. Its not a carnivore. Its a prey animal.

Ajierene
Apr. 8, 2012, 08:52 AM
I have been to Germany a few times and over there it is pretty common to see dogs in stores. I had not gone to the grocery store there and did not see any in restaurants, but did see them in clothing stores and malls.

Those dogs were always well behaved, unlike many dogs I walk past in the US. They did not jump on people, run to the end of the lead or poop where they weren't supposed to. It may be just that in Germany only well trained dogs went place, but I have never had a problem with dogs in public as long as they are well behaved.

equidae
Apr. 8, 2012, 08:55 AM
Please don't bring it into the grocery store, or the restaurant, or the bank. Please also refrain from carrying it around in your purse.

My dog comes everywhere with me. In the car. He stays in the car. When we go to the park, he gets out. Otherwise, he remains in the car.

I can agree with food oriented establishments, but I have to ask, if the dog is in a purse in a bank- why does it bother you?

I can promise my 4lb dog suspended in my purse is a lot better behaved than most children on foot running rampant but that's another thread for another day..

But really, the dog is completely restrained and quiet- why do you care whether I bring it to the bank or post office? The dog enjoys my company and hates to be alone. Why not?

MsM
Apr. 8, 2012, 09:03 AM
My dogs and the tellers would be very dissapointed if they couldnt come in and get cookies! Same thing for the Post Office.

I agree that dogs shouldnt be in food selling or serving places since someone's pet is likely to be ,um, unhygenic.

But a well-behaved dog should be welcome while I am cashing a check or sending a package. Or in other quick-errand type places.

I have more issues with people who insist on bringing their dogs in cars and then leaving them. Too often it is too hot in a mostly closed car. And even if it is not that hot, I can't count the number of times I have seen dogs franticaly barking and bouncing around the car or truck in the parking lot. Again, no problem with running in to pay a bill or buy a soda while paying for gas, etc. But if you are doing serious shopping I think doggie should be home, not in store or in car. Same for little kids! :winkgrin:

LauraKY
Apr. 8, 2012, 10:54 AM
When I had puppies, I took them everywhere with me for the first month or so to socialize them. Except for groceries and restaurants...the health department frowns on that in MD.

Video store, my parent's retirement home, the bank, the whole nine yards. My parent's bank started stocking doggie treats for my cocker (cocker lover worked in the bank).

Why does it bother you so much?

Tha Ridge
Apr. 8, 2012, 11:07 AM
Back on topic - the only REAL way to socialize puppies is to take them everywhere. Want to know why so many dogs act retarded and ill mannered? Cause Pookie never got out into the real world and was taught/expected to learn to deal. Go to Europe. Dogs everywhere, getting along without all this drama.

:yes::yes::yes:

And a lot of COTHers seem to forget that not everyone drives everywhere. When I'm out walking my dog, I'll happily combine that with a trip to the bank, an outing to buy a new pair of jeans, etc., etc. If he is welcome in the store, he will go. If he's not, he stays home. It's that simple.

If you don't like dogs in stores, open a store where dogs aren't allowed.

867-5309
Apr. 8, 2012, 02:08 PM
I agree with the OP. I hate dogs in my barn. Even well behaved ones. Inattentive owners, climbing over leashes to do my job, allergies, spilled water bowls, pee in the aisle, lifting legs on my flowers or trunks, naps on chairs ( hair!) meant for people to sit in, dogs in chairs sleeping while other client must stand for there is not a free seat, not ok. I don't bring my dog to the dentist, the bank, to your restaurant, to jump on you while you pump my gas, or in line at the post office. Don't bring your pet to my office either. Total pet peeve.

SarahandSam
Apr. 8, 2012, 03:49 PM
I used to work in a small boutique that sold makeup and skin care. We were amidst a very dog-friendly stretch of shops. Well-behaved dogs in the store were always welcome. A small uncontrolled child rearranging all the tiny boxes of lipstick on a shelf? Not so much.

I still enjoy walking that street with my well-behaved dogs, who are welcome in just about any establishment there, which is why I frequent many of those shops. I don't expect to bring them into a food place, and I ask if it's okay before I go into a store. But they enjoy the opportunity to visit people, and I enjoy getting to spend time with them as I run errands. If they're well-behaved and it's not a health issue, I have no objection to people bringing dogs into stores. As I said, far less obnoxious than some of the off-leash children that people feel compelled to bring with them!

springer
Apr. 8, 2012, 04:11 PM
When I had a furniture and lighting showroom in Florida, dogs were welcome and children were not. Kids are obnoxious and rarely do today's parents try to control them. Dogs on leashes or in someone's purse? I'm not sure what issue one would have with them unless they are simply not animal lovers. In which case I have to wonder why the OP would be frequenting this forum.

Bluey
Apr. 8, 2012, 04:19 PM
Drove onto the parking lot of the vet the other day with a horse for spring shots.
Get out, start to walk to the office and this schnauzer/JRT cross runs barking madly and trying to bite my legs and jumping up and trying to bite my hands.
I debate if to punt, but decide to just stand there and wait for the owner, an older lady there with a huge jumper being injected, I think, that is trying to catch the dog while saying he bites, be careful.:eek:

I wanted to ask her if she ever heard of leashes, or leaving the dogs (there was another similar dog barking but not getting close) in the car or at home, but didn't.
That was not the place to train other's dogs or educate their owners I didn't know.

I still wonder in what world that lady thought it made good sense to have such a dog running loose at a vet clinic?:confused:

Epona142
Apr. 8, 2012, 04:32 PM
*My* dog is whatever *I* want my dog to be.

As long as I am not impeding on anyone else by forcing them to interact with my dog, or harming my dog, then it's no one business "what" my dog is.

ETA: I have never taken my dog somewhere where she is not welcome. I would never even think of taking my dog into a place that sells or provides food. That is against the law.

I DO carry my dog in some situations, either to prevent her from possibly being stepped on, or just out of politeness, even the pet friendly places may not want a dog on the carpet at times. She has yet to show me any complaint about being carried about - in fact she appears to prefer it but "asking" to be picked up when she is unsure about a situation.

I would never bring one of my dogs into public if they were not suited for it. My younger Boxer does not like strangers and is uncomfortable meeting new people except in a very controlled situation.

My smaller dogs have been socialized since a young age and know their manners in public and delight in attention from animal lovers who see them and ask permission to say hello.

Never have I foisted my dog onto someone else intentionally or unintentionally. If a little quiet dog tucked into the crook of my or my husband's arm offends you in the feed store, bank, tire store, or where ever else, look away. Without visually seeing my dog, you would not know she was there. I do NOT get close to people, partially because I like my personal space, and partially because not everyone wants a dog near them. Just like I don't want a kid near me.

I think we can all complain about parents/pet owners who don't control their charges, but there does still exist some of us who are in control of a situation and are not bothering anyone else unless they CHOOSE to be bothered by it.

Slewdledo
Apr. 8, 2012, 04:37 PM
I'm the OP and I have a dog. I love dogs. But I just don't understand why you would subject other patrons to YOUR dog, when some of the other patrons are afraid of, allergic to, or do not like dogs. Why should THEY accommodate YOU in a place that isn't public and/or outdoors? What joy does a little dog get out of being stuffed into a purse and carried around instead of getting exercise?

I am NOT anti-walk your dog on the street. I just can't fathom the audacity of waltzing into places of business with your dog in tow.

Maybe it's how you're raised? We always had dogs growing up and they came with us lots of places in the car, but they only ever got out of the car at a friend or relative's house, or the park. Never somewhere that they might not be welcome.

SendenHorse
Apr. 8, 2012, 05:06 PM
I'd rather see dogs then kids. :winkgrin:

Paragon
Apr. 8, 2012, 05:20 PM
I'd rather see dogs then kids. :winkgrin:

Ditto. :lol:

When I was in Austria and Germany, I saw dogs at restaurants and in shops. They're well-behaved and apparently much more socially accepted there. It was no big deal.

happymom
Apr. 8, 2012, 05:42 PM
I'd rather see dogs than have to listen to people blabbing on cell phones...

maunder
Apr. 8, 2012, 06:07 PM
I work in a small village and I have very nice employers that not only allow me to bring my small dog to work - they encourage it. We walk to the post office and the bank and the town hall/offices during our work day. I asked permission to bring her in with me prior to going to these places and received it.

Prior to entering the bank and post office I pick her up. I fully understand that not all people are dog lovers and I keep her out of the way unless they expressly ask to pat her. My little 14 pound friend has become so popular with the bank staff that they ask that I hand her over the counter so that she can run around behind the scenes while I'm doing my bank business. The bank manager is disappointed if I don't bring her in.

At the village hall she is welcomed with equal happiness.

If I don't bring her with me everyone is disappointed.

I certainly don't bring her into food establishments or grocery stores, drug stores or any other store (except Petco) and I wouldn't unless I asked permission. I know better than to expect that I should be allowed to bring her in everywhere.

She's a happy, friendly, sweet-smelling and adorable little dog and she's opened doors to people I'd never have met other than through her friendliness and kindness to everyone she meets.

Bluey
Apr. 8, 2012, 06:16 PM
The drive up at our little town's bank hands out dog treats if they see you have a dog in the vehicle.
My dog knows that and stand up and wags at them.;)

She goes with me to some places where she can stay in the pickup, to the bank, the post office, etc, but not to most other places where she has to stay there alone more than a few minutes.
Generally she lays down and sleeps, so no one knows she is there.
She doesn't look out the window or barks.

Gestalt
Apr. 8, 2012, 06:17 PM
I love seeing dogs when I'm out and about. I don't get the OP's problem with pets in purses. Really, how much of an issue for a person with allergies is a couple of minutes in a bank going to be? And dogs in clothes, how freaking cute is that? :)

red mares
Apr. 8, 2012, 06:18 PM
Back on topic - the only REAL way to socialize puppies is to take them everywhere. Want to know why so many dogs act retarded and ill mannered? Cause Pookie never got out into the real world and was taught/expected to learn to deal. Go to Europe. Dogs everywhere, getting along without all this drama.

I have to throw the flag on this. We had a pretty well adjusted dog growing up. The only places she went was the vet, around the block every night, to 4H for a couple years, and the occaisonal vacation. She was very well mannered and somehow managed to get that way without any trips to store.

My father's current dog on the other had, goes EVERYWHERE and doesn't have near the manners that the old dog did.

Trixie
Apr. 8, 2012, 06:33 PM
My dog goes to Walgreens. This is because the general manager of Walgreens told me that dogs are welcomed and encouraged in that Walgreens and my dog thinks it's awesome. He also gets to go to the dog boutique. He has been known to become highly disappointed if we walk by the dog boutique and they are closed - he doesn't understand where his friends went!

Wayside
Apr. 8, 2012, 08:03 PM
:yes::yes::yes:

And a lot of COTHers seem to forget that not everyone drives everywhere. When I'm out walking my dog, I'll happily combine that with a trip to the bank, an outing to buy a new pair of jeans, etc., etc. If he is welcome in the store, he will go. If he's not, he stays home. It's that simple.


I agree. I'm also lucky enough to be able to walk to run a lot of my errands, and I'd love to be able to take my dog with me. The pharmacy must've had problems with dogs, because they have a "no dogs" sign, and I would never dream of ignoring it. Nor do I take my dog anywhere if I'm unsure she'd be welcome (and she is very well behaved). But I have a cat with urinary issues, and I walk my dog to the vet to pick up kitty's medications, Rx food, no-sorb, and to drop off my cat's urine samples all the time.

Casey09
Apr. 8, 2012, 08:26 PM
This is just my opinion, but I do think that people should respect the rules of the establishment they are going into. If it is "no dogs," then you probably should not take one - even a small one. There are a lot of stores now, though, that are dog-friendly. There is a nearby shopping district with stickers for stores to put in their windows if they allow dogs (on leashes). Personally, I think it is great for socialization - and I think that it is best to socialize a dog as much as you can. Most dogs like to be with their people, so in most cases I think dogs enjoy going places and being socialized. Leashes, of course, are important when out in public around strangers. Socialization seems to benefit most dogs and make them more balanced.
Last summer I was with my puppy and someone who had to run into the store (we had gone to the park to take a walk that morning and were heading home). At the grocery store, I got out and took the puppy to a bench on the sidewalk to sit on. From there we could see two dogs that had been left in a car. I don't have a problem with leaving dogs in cars, but that day it was hot out and the heat was coming in. I watched them from the bench but it was awful - I wasn't sure if I should call someone or not. They were moving around but panting awfully hard. I hate to see dogs in cars when it is hot out.

katarine
Apr. 8, 2012, 08:47 PM
we spent the weekend at a horse camp. Dog on leashes are welcome. Our neighbors went to dinner, leaving their dog behind to bark, nonstop, from about 6pm to 11 or so.
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I was filled with murderous intent by about 7:30. That poor dog. Why take him, then leave him to panic? Leave his butt at home, in a kennel. he's going to hate the weekend regardless. I went to enjoy the full moon, the silence, the lake. Not...
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pony baloney
Apr. 8, 2012, 09:00 PM
A woman brought her dog into Panera Bread; the dog was in one of those pouchy things you wear so the dog is at your somach, like a baby. Not thrilled with a dog at a place where I'm eating. Wouldn't have minded as much if it was on the floor.

My big pet peeve is dogs not restrained properly in a car. Dogs on drivers' laps, jumping on the front seats, paws on the dashboard, half of the dog hanging out the window. Don't they know what happens if the car gets hit or you have to slam on your brakes? Doggie becomes projectile missle through the dashboard. I wish these people could get ticketed.

tradewind
Apr. 8, 2012, 09:02 PM
We are about the only country that does not allow dogs in public places..I would welcome more dogs being allowed in business establishments.

BlueEyedSorrel
Apr. 8, 2012, 09:42 PM
I was on a flight about 6 months ago seated behind a woman with a small dog in one of those soft fabric carriers. I didn't even know there was a dog on board until we landed (saw it sitting on her lap as I was de-planing).

Compared to people's ill mannered children I've had the misfortune of being exposed to on other flights, the dog was an absolute angel. And the hygeine aspect can't possibly be any worse than people who change their baby's diaper on the tray tables--gross!:eek: I'd fly with that dog any day.

BES

EqTrainer
Apr. 8, 2012, 09:47 PM
Are you even serious? You can hardly fit a soda and a bag of chips on one of those tables, let alone an infant. Maybe a 2 lb. preemie would fit.

blondebates
Apr. 8, 2012, 09:52 PM
I agree with Springer and SendenHorse... My dogs are and will always be my children. I only take them to appropriate places, such as the park or petsmart and occasionally to Tractor Supply Company.The ladies who work at TSC actually know my dog by name and look forward to him coming in to see them. I would much rather have a dog slobbering on me then a child shreaking in my ear or running a muck. And honestly I always get more positive attention for my giant Great Dane X, come to think of it no one has ever complained about him...

BlueEyedSorrel
Apr. 8, 2012, 09:52 PM
Are you even serious? You can hardly fit a soda and a bag of chips on one of those tables, let alone an infant. Maybe a 2 lb. preemie would fit.

Unfortunately yes. I saw it in action during one of my flights this winter while I was on the interview trail, guy with a maybe 5-6 month old infant (? I'm horrible with guesstimating baby ages). Gross, gross, gross

BES

spotted mustang
Apr. 8, 2012, 10:03 PM
If it's hot (which it hasn't been here for over a year) he stays home.

There is no excuse for bringing a non-service dog into a place of business.

oh, chill :D It's not like a dog is a toxic substance (not like some people's children anyways). When did people become so scared of animals??

I'd say, if it's well-behaved, it can go anywhere. If it isn't, either train it or leave it at home. The same goes for kids and husbands.

Swishy-Tails
Apr. 8, 2012, 10:11 PM
I love Europe and all of its dog friendliness.

When I was in Italy, I was at a restaurant and I saw an Italian man sitting at a 2 person table with his rather large dog. The dog was sitting in the 2nd seat, and the man was sitting there, being all Italian sipping on wine talking to his dog.

I wish America could be more dog friendly!

lewin
Apr. 9, 2012, 01:53 AM
America can't be more dog friendly because Americans cannot be trusted to take responsibility for their pets. A fair percentage of the population feels it is the job of someone else to pick up after them. In places like Petsmart that welcome pets I have seen people watch their dog take a dump on the linoleum and then walk off. Or walk their chihuahua around as it pees on every carpeted cat tree down the aisle. (I do call them on it as I know the store associates cannot. In the name of American-style customer service they are supposed to take the abuse smiling.) People bring their dog and people aggressive dogs in as well. There is a dog-friendly restaurant nearby here and they have to have printed on the menu's a warning to let customers know how much the chairs and table are and if they break them they will be charged for a replacement. Because dog owners can and do destroy the furniture. This board is not the average pet owner and in general the posters here are much more educated about training, care, etc. than the general dog-owning population that feeds Pedigree and drops the dog off at the shelter every time they move or get tired of Fido. Those are the people who bring dogs into various stores and make places ban non-service animals.

Griffyn
Apr. 9, 2012, 05:12 AM
Sorry BES, I probably exposed you to my child on a recent flight! But I did everything in my power to make him comfortable... I bought his own ticket so I could put him in his car seat, toys, snacks etc. But he did have a spell of misery and probably brought hand wringing and eye rolling in the seats ahead and behind. It was a long day for all of us! I longed for my well behaved non-crying dogs myself! Dog ownership is so much more controllable- I love seeing well behaved dogs out and about. Mine stay home now, in lieu of a much less accomodating toddler. Cant wait till hes as trustworthy as the dog in a public space!

Tapperjockey
Apr. 9, 2012, 05:59 AM
oh, chill :D It's not like a dog is a toxic substance (not like some people's children anyways). When did people become so scared of animals??

I'd say, if it's well-behaved, it can go anywhere. If it isn't, either train it or leave it at home. The same goes for kids and husbands.

I don't know anyone allergic to children. I know many people allergic to dogs (and cats).

Whitfield Farm Hanoverians
Apr. 9, 2012, 07:50 AM
I agree with Swishytails. In Europe I loved the fact that there were dogs everywhere. In every restaurant, in the stores. They are a part of the family there. I wish it were like that here.
I will not leave my dog in the car as I know of many that have been stolen.

SarahandSam
Apr. 9, 2012, 09:20 AM
I don't know anyone allergic to children. I know many people allergic to dogs (and cats).

I figure that at any given point in time, there is more shed cat/dog/horse hair attached to me than there is to any one of my animals, so if you're allergic, I'm more of a threat to you than my dog is...

Alagirl
Apr. 9, 2012, 09:56 AM
I don't know anyone allergic to children. I know many people allergic to dogs (and cats).


I don't know, but I have severe reactions to some kids at times....

wendy
Apr. 9, 2012, 09:56 AM
the "allergy" thing is rather bogus- unless you go up to and pet/lick/kiss the animal, you're not going to be affected.

The argument about "food safety"/ sanitation is also bogus- there isn't a single infectious disease a vaccinated dog can pass on to a casual passer-by; unlike a child, who can and will pass on all kinds of infectious diseases to casual passer-bys. If we're concerned about sanitation, then diaper-wearing infants should be banned from practically everywhere.

Really there's no reason why a well-behaved dog shouldn't be welcome practically anywhere. If people could SEE well-behaved dogs in action, they might be less likely to accept poor behavior from their own dog; and if they could actually take their dog out and about in the world, the dogs would become better socialized and better behaved and we'd have fewer dog-dog fights and fewer dog-human bites.

Whatever you do, PLEASE don't leave your dog unattended in a car, regardless of the weather. It's simply not safe.

Sithly
Apr. 9, 2012, 10:04 AM
America can't be more dog friendly because Americans cannot be trusted to take responsibility for their pets.

Very true.

Tha Ridge
Apr. 9, 2012, 10:06 AM
the "allergy" thing is rather bogus- unless you go up to and pet/lick/kiss the animal, you're not going to be affected.


Agreed. Otherwise why are small "allergic" animals allowed on airplanes?

HydroPHILE
Apr. 9, 2012, 10:10 AM
One of the problems in our area is that people are claiming their dogs (in their purses or wherever) are Service Animals. It is against the law to request proof that the animal is a Service Animal so they get away with it. I have also seen some psychiatrists "prescribing" a person's personal animal as a "psychiatric service animal" to help alleviate stress and anxiety in social settings. Unfortunately, the persons that abuse this are the ones with small, snappy, ill-tempered, and poorly mannered animals.

I don't mind dogs where they are permitted (outdoor patios, home improvement stores, etc.)...as long as they are well-mannered and controlled by their owners. We take our dogs to Home Depot all the time and when they are in training as well. They wear a vest of a different color than service animals that says, "I'M IN TRAINING." Loud noises, new smells, slick floors, etc. are all great for training and socialization (after a solid obedience and a solid focus have been obtained.)

DeeThbd
Apr. 9, 2012, 11:03 AM
Explain to me the NEED to constantly have a dog with you...I adore my horses and my housecats - I prefer their company to that of many people - but I don't feel the need to have them with me for every waking moment - I am overjoyed to see them when I get home, and it is impossible to sit down in my house without getting kitty cuddles. Is having a dog really that different? Why take a pet into a busy mall with constant noise and stimulation? It doesn't seem fair to the pet IMHO. Same with kids - why drag your toddler around for your shopping all day? There are other occasions for great socialization, but it seems like doing it constantly is a bit much.

tradewind
Apr. 9, 2012, 12:35 PM
Dogs are quite different than cats when it comes to public social settings. Many dogs relish it..Like I said, dogs are eveywhere in Europe. I like it. I take my dogs to as many places as I can. I will say, my dogs are trained to behave in public and at home.

supershorty628
Apr. 9, 2012, 12:42 PM
the "allergy" thing is rather bogus- unless you go up to and pet/lick/kiss the animal, you're not going to be affected.


Uh, no, it's not. Future Mr. Supershorty is extremely allergic to dogs and horses - to the point that going over to my parents' house (they have a dog and my mom rides) is almost torturing him, even after taking Allegra or another antihistamine and using an inhaler. I keep all my riding stuff either in a separate room or in a sealed plastic bag so that it won't set him off. He never pets my parents' dog, nor he ever pet my horse on the extremely rare occasion that he comes to watch me show. He is absolutely affected whether he touches the animal or not.

I don't understand the need for people to always have their dogs with them (service animals aside). I can understand with toddlers - obviously you can't leave a child at home alone for a couple of hours, but a dog...

It is an issue even if he's not around the animals. I have to shower before I see him when I get home from my internship (I work at a zoo and handle many of the animals) or from the barn. Not that I wouldn't anyway, but I HAVE to before I do anything else. Any clothes that went to the barn/work are placed in a sealed container that is separate from anything he handles so that I can wash them without worrying about setting him off. My roommate has to shower when she gets back from working at a large animal hospital if future Mr. SS is out visiting because even though they never touch and are very rarely closer than 5-6 feet, that can still trigger his allergies.

I love dogs and am definitely a dog person, don't get me wrong... but don't claim that allergies are bogus or not an issue unless you're living with someone who deals with that every day.

HydroPHILE
Apr. 9, 2012, 12:51 PM
Uh, no, it's not. Future Mr. Supershorty is extremely allergic to dogs and horses - to the point that going over to my parents' house (they have a dog and my mom rides) is almost torturing him, even after taking Allegra or another antihistamine and using an inhaler.

My mother is the same way to the extent that when we come to visit without our dogs, she still has to wear a patch on her forearm that has some sort of cortizone thing or some other medicine in it because she is THAT allergic to dogs.

She has an inhaler, and if she is at someone's home that has a dog for an entire day, she feels incredibly rough that night/the next day from it.

Keg-A-Bacchus
Apr. 9, 2012, 01:00 PM
I am a canine behaviorist and see lots of problems of dogs being treated like children. I always tell my clients...you can LOVE them like they are your child but you need to TREAT them like a dog. That being said I have always had big dogs. They stay home unless we're heading somewhere designed for them...a walk, the beach, a friends house, dog park, etc. They ride along for errands only if I'm in and out in a matter of minutes. In Wisconsin there are really only a few weeks a year where it's not too hot or too cold to stay in the car for more than a couple of minutes.

HOWEVER...I am now the proud owner of a 10lb Boston Terrier who is the light of my life! Having a small dog opened up a whole new world for me. She is trained to be a dog. She obeys commands, walks on a leash, runs freely in the yard and appropriate places. But she is also trained to sit quietly in my lap or her doggy backpack. I take her everywhere! She LOVES it! My Ridgeback has to stay home alot because he can't go everywhere. Gerdie, my BT, is like a local celebrity. She is welcomed and encouraged everywhere. I keep her restrained to my lap or her bag when we're in public places unless the business owner wants her to come play. She is no more of a health hazard on my lap then most dog and horse owners coming straight from the barn or at home petting their dog and covered in hair. Trust me...I've seen some people wearing more hair than my dog out at restaurants.

If she wasn't allowed in these places she'd have to stay home alllll day. Instead she gets to go to the park, come shopping, have lunch, vist friends and go home well socialized after a fun packed day. I live 45 minutes from the nearest dog romping place. Twice a week my Ridgeback gets to go. The other days i have other stuff to do over there so he can't come. But Gerdie can because shes little enough i can carry her around with me after her romp. So yes...I could leave her home. Or in a dangerous car. Or I can keep my quiet, well trained happy social dog at my side and enjoy a full life together. Now if I could just find a shrinking ray to shrink my Ridgeback 80lbs he could join in on all the fun too!

KBC
Apr. 9, 2012, 01:04 PM
When I have a puppy it comes everywhere with me, into all stores, the bank, post office, all over. They learn to sit quietly by my side, or to be carried, they learn how to behave around people, we teach random kiddies how to behave with the puppy.

I don't take my adults out so much, the JRT loves to go ride in the car, but I only tale him if I'm not going to be to long on a store anywhere, but he is great company.

RacetrackReject
Apr. 9, 2012, 01:21 PM
Explain to me the NEED to constantly have a dog with you...I adore my horses and my housecats - I prefer their company to that of many people - but I don't feel the need to have them with me for every waking moment - I am overjoyed to see them when I get home, and it is impossible to sit down in my house without getting kitty cuddles. Is having a dog really that different? Why take a pet into a busy mall with constant noise and stimulation? It doesn't seem fair to the pet IMHO. Same with kids - why drag your toddler around for your shopping all day? There are other occasions for great socialization, but it seems like doing it constantly is a bit much.

I don't NEED to have my dog with me, but my dog loves going somewhere and riding in the truck (cab), so when I get the chance, I take him with me. I don't know many cats that enjoy riding in cars, so I would say, yes, there is a difference.

And yes, I am allergic to children. Some adults too for that matter. =)

Mtn trails
Apr. 9, 2012, 01:32 PM
I am a dog lover and have 2 at home but it wouldn't occur to me to bring them to a restaurant or other food oriented establishment. I can just see all that lovely dog hair floating around and landing in my chicken piccata or your dog deciding to take a whizz on the leg of my chair. Leave them at home for pete's sake, you don't need to have them with you every waking moment. Let them be dogs, sheesh. Oh, and the clothes thing, unless they have thin hair coats and need a blanket for warmth, it's not cute at all. They're dogs not people.

Swishy-Tails
Apr. 9, 2012, 01:42 PM
I recently went to a new outdoors shop in Asheville, NC with my very well behaved toy poodle and the manager came up to me and told me that dogs aren't allowed. I told him that this is ridiculous and that I will not be a customer in his POS of an outdoors shop and left. An OUTDOORS shop of all places. We weren't hurting a thing. She was being perfectly behaved.

What a joke of an outdoors shop that even sells dog stuff.

I wrote a letter to the main company mind you.

Keg-A-Bacchus
Apr. 9, 2012, 02:21 PM
As a canine behaviorist I am very curious where these dogs people say need to be left at home to "be dogs" come from? *All dogs I know are, by nature, adventurous. *They love to roam, to investigate new things, to socialize and explore. *I've never met these dogs that choose to confine themselves to a house, crate or room for long days with no external stimulation. *Perhaps I should do a study on them! :-)

I tell all of my puppy clients to take their puppy EVERYWHERE THEY CAN. *Obviously, respect an establishments personal rules about dogs but other than that have at it. *If more people took their puppies places I would certainly have far less clients later on in life though! *It creates happy, well behaved and social dogs in the future. *And if your adult dog is not well behaved in public just call a trainer to fix that! *

The dogs are a health hazard thing is just ridiculous. *A small dog on a lap is NO different then a dog owner who pets their dog goodbye, gets a kiss and heads to a restaurant. *You have hair, dander and saliva on you. *Just to think when you open the restaurant door without washing your hands you've just contaminated it. *When you sit on the upholstered chair a few hairs stick to it. *When a breeze comes by a not well attached hair on your shirt may blow off and land in someone's food. *Eeeeekkkkk!! *Gross! *It's literally no different than a small dog in a crate, bag or on a lap. *Do you fly? *Because pets are allowed on airplanes.

I would much prefer a dog to be left home then in a car. *I can't think of anywhere in the world the temperature stays safe all year round for a dog. *After working in a vet clinic and seeing more deaths and heat induced problems from the "I'm only leaving him in the car for 10 minutes" mindset I now happily call the police if I see a dog locked in a car panting for more than a couple minutes. *Sorry 'Bout It. *Either bring them in with you or leave them home. *Ideally our society would stop being so paranoid about dogs so we could enjoy the freedom with our dogs that so many other countries already have.

My little Gerdie is welcome everywhere I go in the small island town I live in. *When tourists flood in during summertime I don't take get out as much because so many city people are horrified to notice a 10pm dog sitting in my lap quietly at the patio bar. *But where I'm from dogs are welcome. *And the last time I was enjoying a margarita with friends at the patio bar and a tourist with 2 children said something about Gerdie the very friendly bartender said to the man "Sir...you've been here for an hour. *So has she. *You just noticed the dog now. *Are you having an allergic reaction? (Well, no) Are you afraid of dogs (No) Well then sir I suggest you finish your beer and head elsewhere because your kind is not welcome here. *That dog is far more polite then you, smells better then you and is far more welcome here than your obnoxious noisy children who keep bothering my customers and making a mess. *Have a nice day sir.". Needless to say he got a $50 tip :)

I understand not everyone has a dog they can take places. *But for those of us who do leave us alone. *Little Gerdie is far happier off on adventures meeting new people with her mom then she is locked in her room at home. *We're not hurting anyone so if you don't like it look away. *And certainly don't ask the bartender to kick her out...it clearly won't go very well in my town!

Mtn trails
Apr. 9, 2012, 02:31 PM
As a canine behaviorist I am very curious where these dogs people say need to be left at home to "be dogs" come from? *All dogs I know are, by nature, adventurous. *They love to roam, to investigate new things, to socialize and explore.

Evidently you've never met my dogs who are home-bodies and do not leave our large unfenced yard - Yellow lab and GSP.

Windsor1
Apr. 9, 2012, 02:33 PM
I recently went to a new outdoors shop in Asheville, NC with my very well behaved toy poodle and the manager came up to me and told me that dogs aren't allowed. I told him that this is ridiculous and that I will not be a customer in his POS of an outdoors shop and left. An OUTDOORS shop of all places. We weren't hurting a thing. She was being perfectly behaved.

What a joke of an outdoors shop that even sells dog stuff.

I wrote a letter to the main company mind you.

Seriously, his "POS store"? Pretty bitchy.

YOU might not have been "hurting a thing," but a store that allows animals inside opens itself up to all kinds of problems, as I see it. Animals pooping/peeing here and there, the possibility of even leashed dogs biting one another or other customers, damaging merchandise.

Unless you think all stores should make an exception for you. I hope you're not that entitled.

I don't have any specific objection personally to businesses allowing animals inside, but completely understand why THEY would.

Keg-A-Bacchus
Apr. 9, 2012, 02:34 PM
Most dogs are trained to stay home. If left to their own devices with no human interjunction they will roam and travel for food, mating and socialization. My dogs are also trained to stay in the yard. But had I never met them and they were wild they would roam, hunt, investigate and explore before returning to a general home area.

Swishy-Tails
Apr. 9, 2012, 02:39 PM
Seriously, his "POS store"? Pretty bitchy.

YOU might not have been "hurting a thing," but a store that allows animals inside opens itself up to all kinds of problems, as I see it. Animals pooping/peeing here and there, the possibility of even leashed dogs biting one another or other customers, damaging merchandise.

Unless you think all stores should make an exception for you. I hope you're not that entitled.

I don't have any specific objection personally to businesses allowing animals inside, but completely understand why THEY would.

Well, my only problem with this situation is that it is an outdoors shop. I have never heard of an outdoors shop that doesn't not allow dogs. I was really confused and was more like "oh well!" I can go to a REAL outdoors shop that is pet friendly, with friendly employees in general.

Please read the posts regarding how dogs would be more acceptable in public if public places allowed them. Without socialization it is pretty difficult for a dog to behave in public.

My dog comes to me to the barn, and she doesn't even poop or pee in the barn -- she goes outside to do so.

Windsor1
Apr. 9, 2012, 02:43 PM
Well, my only problem with this situation is that it is an outdoors shop. I have never heard of an outdoors shop that doesn't not allow dogs. I was really confused and was more like "oh well!" I can go to a REAL outdoors shop that is pet friendly, with friendly employees in general.

I understand. I'm sorry if I was harsh (I was harsh). :)

I think the fact that it is, as you say, an outdoors shop is secondary to the fact that it is a place of business with other customers roaming around and merchandise that may be damaged, broken, etc.

And again, while I'm sure that many dogs are and would be well behaved, we both know that others would not, and I think it's just much easier for the business owners to avoid potential liability and other problems by keeping them out. I doubt very many people from the general population WANT to shop with their dogs anyway. There are too many potential problems to make it worth it to businesses to cater to the small percentage of the overall shopping public that does.

Swishy-Tails
Apr. 9, 2012, 02:47 PM
I understand. I'm sorry if I was harsh (I was harsh). :)

I think the fact that it is, as you say, an outdoors shop is secondary to the fact that it is a place of business with other customers roaming around and merchandise that may be damaged, broken, etc.

Well, customer satisfaction should play a role -- my dog was behaved and no one even noticed she was there. They also sell dog stuff-- pretty dumb of them to ask me to take my dog to the car (!?!?!)

I think I am mostly angry at bad pet owners for giving all pet owners a bad name, creating this sort of prejudice against us being able to bring our dogs who are a part of the family in public.

As someone wrote a bit earlier, kids actually carry diseases and vaccinated dogs do not. My dog is better behaved than any child is any day of the week.

arabhorse2
Apr. 9, 2012, 02:56 PM
What a joke of an outdoors shop that even sells dog stuff.

I wrote a letter to the main company mind you.


Entitled much there, Swishy? :rolleyes:

Not everyone has to like or accept your Poopsiekins, and the manager was only upholding the regulations set forth from the home office.

Telling him off only makes you look like a big ole bitch-bag.

My Great Dane goes with me when I'm going someplace where she'll be welcomed. Otherwise, she stays home.

Oh, and as for dressing your little ankle biters in clothing? Not cute. Makes me wonder what the hell is wrong with you that you think you need to dress up a DOG.

Swishy-Tails
Apr. 9, 2012, 02:59 PM
Entitled much there, Swishy? :rolleyes:

Not everyone has to like or accept your Poopsiekins, and the manager was only upholding the regulations set forth from the home office.

Telling him off only makes you look like a big ole bitch-bag.


I didn't really tell him off, I was more like "Umm, you must have one serious outdoors shop here, and you must be serious about your dog owner customers for allowing dogs inside!" the sarcastic cow I am.

Windsor1
Apr. 9, 2012, 03:00 PM
Well, customer satisfaction should play a role -- my dog was behaved and no one even noticed she was there.

And another manager might've looked the other way. This one didn't. C'est la vie. Not fair to fault the manager for enforcing store policy. HE IS DOING HIS JOB.

As for customer satisfaction, it most definitely plays a role. I guarantee you the customer who stepped in dog poo or slipped in a pee puddle would not be too satisfied with his shopping experience in that store.


They also sell dog stuff-- pretty dumb of them to ask me to take my dog to the car (!?!?!)

That argument is not logical. By that rationale, horses should be allowed in tack shops. The fact that an outdoor store sells dog stuff is irrelevant.


I think I am mostly angry at bad pet owners for giving all pet owners a bad name, creating this sort of prejudice against us being able to bring our dogs who are a part of the family in public.

I understand, and that does suck.


As someone wrote a bit earlier, kids actually carry diseases and vaccinated dogs do not. My dog is better behaved than any child is any day of the week.

Come on. It is completely unrealistic to expect adults to find a sitter or leave their kids at home every time they want to go to the store. And adults can also pass on illnesses. Maybe we should all just shop online.

Mara
Apr. 9, 2012, 03:08 PM
And another manager might've looked the other way. This one didn't. C'est la vie. Not fair to fault the manager for enforcing store policy. HE IS DOING HIS JOB.

As for customer satisfaction, it most definitely plays a role. I guarantee you the customer who stepped in dog poo or slipped in a pee puddle would not be too satisfied with his shopping experience in that store.



That argument is not logical. By that rationale, horses should be allowed in tack shops. The fact that an outdoor store sells dog stuff is irrelevant.



I understand, and that does suck.



Come on. It is completely unrealistic to expect adults to find a sitter or leave their kids at home every time they want to go to the store. And adults can also pass on illnesses. Maybe we should all just shop online.

But most adults aren't in the habit of picking their noses and wiping the results on the display furniture. (Seriously, I witnessed this last time I went to buy a couple of dining room chairs). Something to think about next time you consider buying the floor model couch. . .

Nor would I want someone's dog lifting his leg on the display furniture, so. . .

I'm selective about where mine get to go. They each weigh around 55 lbs., so they won't be riding in my purse or a backpack. Are they welcome, and will they enjoy themselves or will it just stress them out? I used to take my Yorkie to classes in college all the time - he'd curl up and nap under my chair. Unfortunately others started bringing their dogs as well, some of whom didn't really need to be there. that ultimately led to a "no dogs in classrooms, unless they are service dogs" edict.

Swishy-Tails
Apr. 9, 2012, 03:10 PM
And another manager might've looked the other way. This one didn't. C'est la vie. Not fair to fault the manager for enforcing store policy. HE IS DOING HIS JOB.

As for customer satisfaction, it most definitely plays a role. I guarantee you the customer who stepped in dog poo or slipped in a pee puddle would not be too satisfied with his shopping experience in that store.

That argument is not logical. By that rationale, horses should be allowed in tack shops. The fact that an outdoor store sells dog stuff is irrelevant.

I understand, and that does suck.

Come on. It is completely unrealistic to expect adults to find a sitter or leave their kids at home every time they want to go to the store. And adults can also pass on illnesses. Maybe we should all just shop online.

Well, I was mostly offended how he approached me -- he came up to me, was like OH WHAT A CUTE DOG and said that dogs aren't allowed. So basically, the vibe I got was he was trying to suck up to me just to not piss me off.

I would never, ever leave my dog's mess and I would take full responsibility of her. Just like if I were to vomit randomly some place. I would offer to clean it up. Personally I don't get why everyone would.

Why would I buy a collar and stuff when I don't know if it fits my dog, and have to potentially drive back to return it? When I could simply bring her with me? Of course horses are quite difficult to bring inside a tack shop, haha!

My dog has separation anxiety. I can't always find a sitter for her either so I bring her with me, being the responsible pet owner I am.

:P we could do this all day.

moonriverfarm
Apr. 9, 2012, 03:16 PM
Love my dogs, and take them into places where they are welcome, but not where food is served. They are chihuahuas and one went to the movies in my shirt a few years ago. I really am past caring what people think about seeing me at a drive thru with seven appleheads at the side window!

Trixie
Apr. 9, 2012, 03:22 PM
Well, I was mostly offended how he approached me -- he came up to me, was like OH WHAT A CUTE DOG and said that dogs aren't allowed. So basically, the vibe I got was he was trying to suck up to me just to not piss me off.

It sounds like he was trying to be as polite and inoffensive as possible while still enforcing the store's rules. Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Mara
Apr. 9, 2012, 03:23 PM
Love my dogs, and take them into places where they are welcome, but not where food is served. They are chihuahuas and one went to the movies in my shirt a few years ago. I really am past caring what people think about seeing me at a drive thru with seven appleheads at the side window!

I don't get why it's such an issue to have them where food is served. I mean, they're not going into the food prep areas and marching around on the tabletops, right?

wendy
Apr. 9, 2012, 03:31 PM
but a store that allows animals inside opens itself up to all kinds of problems, as I see it. Animals pooping/peeing here and there, the possibility of even leashed dogs biting one another or other customers, damaging merchandise.


how is this any different than allowing the human public, especially the under-age human public, into stores? anytime you let the public in, you could get damage, violence, inappropriate behavior.

Odd how the first thing most people come up with is inappropriate peeing- my dogs are far less likely to pee in a store than many children and even adults.

If the problem is lots of folks don't bother to train their dogs, how about some kind of test/certificate? the store could let only service dogs and leashed dogs who have passed the CGC and/or have a basic obedience title (CD or RL1 or RN) into the store.

I think this would actually be good for dogs and people- people have a reason to train their dog, the dog gets to get out and about instead of being left at home.

Now if only we could insist upon some kind of "certified to behave" program that children have to pass before being allowed out in public...

Windsor1
Apr. 9, 2012, 03:33 PM
But most adults aren't in the habit of picking their noses and wiping the results on the display furniture. (Seriously, I witnessed this last time I went to buy a couple of dining room chairs). Something to think about next time you consider buying the floor model couch. . .


Oh come on. A little dried mucus never hurt anybody! :lol:

(My point is that if we're worried about passing on diseases, we should stay away from one another altogether. Children sneeze and cough, adults sneeze and cough, we're touching things a million other people have touched with their germy hands. The "passing on illnesses" argument just doesn't cut it for me as far as admitting dogs vs. children into a business establishment.)

Windsor1
Apr. 9, 2012, 03:44 PM
how is this any different than allowing the human public, especially the under-age human public, into stores? anytime you let the public in, you could get damage, violence, inappropriate behavior.

Well how the heck are you going to have a physical store without allowing the human public into it? It's also a question of the feasibility and reasonableness of banning one group versus another. As I stated earlier, it is not feasible to expect adults to leave kids at home, or in the car, or find a sitter, or what have you, every time they want to go shopping. With an animal, it is absolutely reasonable and feasible.


Odd how the first thing most people come up with is inappropriate peeing- my dogs are far less likely to pee in a store than many children and even adults.

Okay, where the hell are you doing your shopping? I can't ever recall having seen a human of any age drop a load on a store floor. :lol: That would be a heck of a story though.


If the problem is lots of folks don't bother to train their dogs, how about some kind of test/certificate? the store could let only service dogs and leashed dogs who have passed the CGC and/or have a basic obedience title (CD or RL1 or RN) into the store.

Because it's NOT WORTH IT TO THE STORE. Having someone have to check for certificates, and this one's expired, or that one looks falsified, and you still have the possibility of a trained animal having an accident on the floor or biting someone or damaging store property or driving away other customers who are afraid of dogs or just don't want to shop around them. Why would a store sign up for that just to satisfy a minority of customers? The bottom line is that the store has far more to lose than to gain.


Now if only we could insist upon some kind of "certified to behave" program that children have to pass before being allowed out in public...

Now THAT we can agree on!

Serigraph
Apr. 9, 2012, 03:44 PM
Haven't read all the replies, but I don't mind seeing dogs in public places. It's no biggie to me.

Germany is literally DOG UTOPIA. Dogs everywhere. I'm not sure where they aren't allowed. No dog fights, no wandering around w/o their owner (and they are all off leash), in restaurants all the time. It was quite nice actually.

wendy
Apr. 9, 2012, 03:53 PM
Explain to me the NEED to constantly have a dog with you...I adore my horses and my housecats - I prefer their company to that of many people - but I don't feel the need to have them with me for every waking moment - I am overjoyed to see them when I get home, and it is impossible to sit down in my house without getting kitty cuddles. Is having a dog really that different?

yes, really it is quite different. Dogs are very social, and it is very abnormal for a dog to not always be with its "Group". Many dogs suffer from a severe mental illness called "separation anxiety" which is rooted in the fact that to a dog being left home alone is quite traumatic. Of course most dogs can become accustomed to being left home alone.

If socialized properly, most dogs really enjoy going places- they like riding in cars, they like the activity and meeting new people/dogs and smelling new places. I'm quite restricted in where I can take dogs, due to the ridiculous american attitudes, but dogs LOVE to go to events with their "Group".

There is also the fact that if dogs get to go in to more places, fewer dogs will be left to die in cars.

and the more time the owner spends with the dog, the stronger the bond, and the less likely the dog will be abandoned to die at a shelter or on the side of the road.

Also the primary reason dogs die in our society is because they have "behavioral problems". Most of their behavioral problems are caused by them being left home alone with nothing to do; and also by lack of training. Being taken out and about would improve the former, and the necessity of training in order to do the taking out would improve the later. Many people can attest that just taking a puppy, young dog, or recently acquired older dog out and about with them to lots of places results in a dramatic overall improvement in behavior without any actual "training effort" on the owner's part.

So from the dog's standpoint, there is much to gain from loosening of dog restrictions.

From the owner's standpoint, having your "group" with you is also psychologically pleasant. You're not alone. Your dog has your back. If it's a bigger dog, you're less likely to be a victim of any crime. If your dog is well-trained, they are handy to have around. Lose your keys? well, the dog will find them. Dropped something? well, the dog will fetch it. Can't carry all your stuff? well, the dog has a pack on. Can't finish your super-sized meal? well, you don't need a doggy bag anymore. They don't stand you up, unlike friends, and they always (well, almost always) agree with your opinion.

lewin
Apr. 9, 2012, 04:06 PM
Well, I was mostly offended how he approached me -- he came up to me, was like OH WHAT A CUTE DOG and said that dogs aren't allowed. So basically, the vibe I got was he was trying to suck up to me just to not piss me off.



It sounds like he was trying to be nice. He could have just called security who tends to be not as nice and avoided having to deal with the situation. Asking you to remove your dog should not piss you off. He may have gotten a complaint from another customer (not everyone likes or wants to be around animals) and was providing good customer service by being nice to both parties. Not allowing dogs is a fact of certain retail establishments just like they have the choice of not allowing firearms or people who are not wearing a shirt or shoes.

Keg-A-Bacchus
Apr. 9, 2012, 04:20 PM
I watched a 4-5 year old unattended child at home depot take a crap in a toilet display. True story. My nephew also wet his pants at a restaurant on a chair. He was potty trained but had an accident. When I was a waitress on 3 different occasions I had elderly people get diarrhea while at a table. They were so embarrassed and I felt awful for them. Guess what. It happens to people as well as an occasional dog. So next time you go to a restaurant and are horrified by the lap dog take a look at your chair. Someone just may have pooped on it. Relax. Life is full of germs and bodily fluids from all it's members...fur or skin. I'd love to see more dogs welcome as Wendy nailed it on the head. We'd have a lot happier dogs, a lot less euthanasias and give aways if we could adapt the policies many other countries have already figured out. And I'm pretty sure no one in Germany is dying of a zoonotic disease they picked up from a poodle at lunch.

DeeThbd
Apr. 9, 2012, 04:29 PM
I don't NEED to have my dog with me, but my dog loves going somewhere and riding in the truck (cab), so when I get the chance, I take him with me. I don't know many cats that enjoy riding in cars, so I would say, yes, there is a difference.

And yes, I am allergic to children. Some adults too for that matter. =)

I can understand that completely....fun cruise on a nice day, sto for an ice cream...great fun for human and pooch! But into malls for a couple of hours of shopping, or into a restaurant for a leisurely supper? I just don't get it.
As for cats - I do know someone whose cat LOVED car rides, but most are happier at home :)
Dee

Tapperjockey
Apr. 9, 2012, 05:29 PM
I don't NEED to have my dog with me, but my dog loves going somewhere and riding in the truck (cab), so when I get the chance, I take him with me. I don't know many cats that enjoy riding in cars, so I would say, yes, there is a difference.

And yes, I am allergic to children. Some adults too for that matter. =)

Being around children can cause you to break into hives or have trouble breathing?

Not liking something, is not the same as having a serious allergic reaction to them.

spotted mustang
Apr. 9, 2012, 05:38 PM
I don't know anyone allergic to children. I know many people allergic to dogs (and cats).

well, ok. Then again, children are little germ cannons who give you the flu or worse. When ever I've spent a day with a bunch of kids, I seem to come down with something :D

BoysNightOut
Apr. 9, 2012, 05:49 PM
I'm pretty sure I'm allergic to children. :lol:

I don't take my dog to the grocery store, bank, etc. Well, I do sometimes, but she stays in the car with the windows cracked (however, only in winter or fall when it's not hot & I don't park in the direct sun, and it's only for a few minutes). I would never think to bring her in to those type of places I guess. Most places don't even allow it.

But the local farm/feed store? Or pet store? She comes right in with me. Knows how to beg for treats when we cash out at Country Max. :lol: She's also very well behaved on a leash. I took her everywhere as a puppy, and she's very well behaved with people.

I don't mind dogs at all in public places. I DO mind obnoxious dogs that have no manners in public places. I also mind obnoxious children in public places, though....

Tha Ridge
Apr. 9, 2012, 07:04 PM
yes, really it is quite different. Dogs are very social, and it is very abnormal for a dog to not always be with its "Group". Many dogs suffer from a severe mental illness called "separation anxiety" which is rooted in the fact that to a dog being left home alone is quite traumatic. Of course most dogs can become accustomed to being left home alone.

If socialized properly, most dogs really enjoy going places- they like riding in cars, they like the activity and meeting new people/dogs and smelling new places. I'm quite restricted in where I can take dogs, due to the ridiculous american attitudes, but dogs LOVE to go to events with their "Group".


My dog doesn't have separation anxiety, but you've never seen anything sadder than when I put on my shoes and don't leash him up.

He knows my schedule well enough to know when I'm leaving for work vs. when I'm just going "out," and boy, when we go "out" without him, he looks devastated because he's so used to going. Gets excited for a few minutes, then if we don't leash him or ask him if he wants to go, he sulks back into the bedroom, jumps on the bed and puts his head on his paws. Breaks my heart every time.

Being able to go places has done wonders for my once-shy dog who now wags and smiles at everyone he meets. I wish I could show all the dog-haters a video of how my dog behaves in public places to show that not all dogs brought out in public are heathens (just as not all children are either).

jetsmom
Apr. 9, 2012, 07:28 PM
I would never, ever leave my dog's mess and I would take full responsibility of her. Just like if I were to vomit randomly some place. I would offer to clean it up. Personally I don't get why everyone would.

Why would I buy a collar and stuff when I don't know if it fits my dog, and have to potentially drive back to return it? When I could simply bring her with me? Of course horses are quite difficult to bring inside a tack shop, haha!

My dog has separation anxiety. I can't always find a sitter for her either so I bring her with me, being the responsible pet owner I am.

:P we could do this all day.

No one wants to buy an article of furniture that has been pooped, peed or thrown up on, even if it was cleaned off. And most people don't carry enzyme cleaners, sponges and paper towels on their person, nor would most stores have enzyme cleaners.

Re collars- Most people have mastered the basic art of measuring a dog's neck before they go shopping for a collar. I promise that the collar size will not change between the time you leave the house, and teh time you return with the collar.

Re SA- If people would teach their dog to tolerate being left alone at times, most wouldn't HAVE SA. If your dog never learns to self soothe, and just chill out by themselves, they WILL freak out when left alone.If you take the dog with you everywhere from the time it's a puppy, and never teach it to be alone, you are risking teaching the dog to have SA.

jetsmom
Apr. 9, 2012, 07:32 PM
I don't get why it's such an issue to have them where food is served. I mean, they're not going into the food prep areas and marching around on the tabletops, right?

Ever seen a dog with a shedding double coat shake? Fur flies everwhere.
Or a Saint Bernard/other drooley breed shake their head? I had a Golden Ret do that one night when I was serving dinner, and a long slimey drool landed on my ex husband's plate. If someone had a dog do that in a restaurant, I am sure the owner of teh meal wouldn't be pleased.

jetsmom
Apr. 9, 2012, 07:35 PM
Because it's NOT WORTH IT TO THE STORE. Having someone have to check for certificates, and this one's expired, or that one looks falsified, and you still have the possibility of a trained animal having an accident on the floor or biting someone or damaging store property or driving away other customers who are afraid of dogs or just don't want to shop around them. Why would a store sign up for that just to satisfy a minority of customers? The bottom line is that the store has far more to lose than to gain.



!

It's also illegal for stores to ask to see written proof that a dog is a service dog. So you couldn't check certificates.

Wayside
Apr. 9, 2012, 07:46 PM
My dog does have separation anxiety. She literally starts shaking the moment she suspects I might be leaving the house. And she's good at picking up those signals, things like when I put my shoes on, or embarrassingly, a bra, since I don't usually wear one around the house :lol:

I don't make a big fuss out of coming or going, but it is clearly very upsetting to her. We started crating her when she started eating things that were becoming increasingly less edible and more hazardous to her health when she was left home alone.

Crating her works, but I'm sure both of us would be happier if she could come with me more often.

And I adopted her from the humane society after she'd been there for 4 months, so I don't think that having people take her everywhere with them was her problem, though I don't really know what her first four years of life were like.

She's 8, and perfect for me in every other way. It doesn't seem likely that her SA will get better at this point, and if there were more dog-friendly places around, yes, I would absolutely take her with me more often.

DeeThbd
Apr. 9, 2012, 08:16 PM
yes, really it is quite different. Dogs are very social, and it is very abnormal for a dog to not always be with its "Group". Many dogs suffer from a severe mental illness called "separation anxiety" which is rooted in the fact that to a dog being left home alone is quite traumatic. Of course most dogs can become accustomed to being left home alone.

If socialized properly, most dogs really enjoy going places- they like riding in cars, they like the activity and meeting new people/dogs and smelling new places. I'm quite restricted in where I can take dogs, due to the ridiculous american attitudes, but dogs LOVE to go to events with their "Group".

There is also the fact that if dogs get to go in to more places, fewer dogs will be left to die in cars.

and the more time the owner spends with the dog, the stronger the bond, and the less likely the dog will be abandoned to die at a shelter or on the side of the road.

Also the primary reason dogs die in our society is because they have "behavioral problems". Most of their behavioral problems are caused by them being left home alone with nothing to do; and also by lack of training. Being taken out and about would improve the former, and the necessity of training in order to do the taking out would improve the later. Many people can attest that just taking a puppy, young dog, or recently acquired older dog out and about with them to lots of places results in a dramatic overall improvement in behavior without any actual "training effort" on the owner's part.

So from the dog's standpoint, there is much to gain from loosening of dog restrictions.

From the owner's standpoint, having your "group" with you is also psychologically pleasant. You're not alone. Your dog has your back. If it's a bigger dog, you're less likely to be a victim of any crime. If your dog is well-trained, they are handy to have around. Lose your keys? well, the dog will find them. Dropped something? well, the dog will fetch it. Can't carry all your stuff? well, the dog has a pack on. Can't finish your super-sized meal? well, you don't need a doggy bag anymore. They don't stand you up, unlike friends, and they always (well, almost always) agree with your opinion.

In many ways you've described my cats ;) - we get followed from room to room, welcomed at the door, and supervised by them at mealtimes :) . Ours have distinct social preferences as well - it's pretty easy to predict who is going to be hanging out or napping or playing with whom.
Your post does beg the question though...what about people who work full time? From what you've described, a dog wouldn't be a fit in that kind of situation.

jetsmom
Apr. 9, 2012, 08:48 PM
My dog does have separation anxiety. She literally starts shaking the moment she suspects I might be leaving the house. And she's good at picking up those signals, things like when I put my shoes on, or embarrassingly, a bra, since I don't usually wear one around the house :lol:

I don't make a big fuss out of coming or going, but it is clearly very upsetting to her. We started crating her when she started eating things that were becoming increasingly less edible and more hazardous to her health when she was left home alone.

Crating her works, but I'm sure both of us would be happier if she could come with me more often.

And I adopted her from the humane society after she'd been there for 4 months, so I don't think that having people take her everywhere with them was her problem, though I don't really know what her first four years of life were like.

She's 8, and perfect for me in every other way. It doesn't seem likely that her SA will get better at this point, and if there were more dog-friendly places around, yes, I would absolutely take her with me more often.

Google "I'll be Home soon". I think its by Patricia McConnel.

Tha Ridge
Apr. 9, 2012, 09:05 PM
Your post does beg the question though...what about people who work full time? From what you've described, a dog wouldn't be a fit in that kind of situation.

And a lot of the times they aren't. Good owners compensate for that with a lot of recreation (e.g., dog walkers or otherwise). Bad owners end up with the nutty hyperactive dogs that shouldn't be out in public.

Wayside
Apr. 9, 2012, 09:27 PM
Google "I'll be Home soon". I think its by Patricia McConnel.

I've read it, I've met her, and Tessa is just very set in her ways. Improvement is veeeery slow, and I doubt she'll be "normal" before she's decrepit. On the bright side, she hasn't gotten any worse over the last couple of years, so the advice I've gotten may have been helpful.

And she's not at all destructive in her crate, so that's working for us. It's not a big deal, I've accepted that this is how she is, and I would take her more places with me if I could.

Guin
Apr. 9, 2012, 09:38 PM
I love dogs. I have two. Please do not bring your dog into a clothing store, or a grocery store, or the hardware store, or any other store except maybe Petco. They are a big distraction for many reasons, including children who will have no restraint in grabbing at the animal.

The only time my dogs come with me on an errand is if we have either gone for a walk or are going for a walk immediately afterward. They stay in the car with the windows rolled down while I run into the bank/CVS/store for five minutes.

If you are deliberately going out just for shopping or to do errands, LEAVE YOUR DOG AT HOME. Dog is happier, you will get your stuff done quicker, and there will be no accident-prone situations.

Rhyadawn
Apr. 9, 2012, 09:59 PM
I'd rather see dogs then kids. :winkgrin:

ditto!

When I worked in a convenience store I was always much happier to see people coming in with a dog than I was when they came in with kids.

Now, in my own business, if clients want to bring in their dog while they receive a treatment they are welcome to. It has never been a problem, the client is much more relaxed, and overall is just a wonderful experience :)

Children are not welcome unless they are the client.