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Beentheredonethat
Apr. 8, 2012, 12:13 AM
TheLeftCoast was supposed to start this one, but I don't see it, so . . .

I could just go back to a thread I started in the fall. The administration was torturing a teacher friend of mine (he's me in the math dept.--he actually grades and teaches on the standards, so is a "mean" teacher) because he got parent complaints. Instead of making parents actually talk to the teacher, they took all these "complaints." They all basically came down to, my child is scared/intimidated/feels stupid because they don't know the material and can't do the work, so it's the teacher's fault. Did they look at the teacher the year before we passes on all kids and they never do any homework and wonder why these kids can't do any of the basic skills? Nooooo. Did the check on why the kid was able to cheat and get away with it and pass, and now they can't, so they're mad and know if they tell mommy and daddy lies they will be believed? Nooo. Because al 12 year olds are SO honest and never lie about ANYTHING (except 90% of things.)

They've continued to torture him, and it brought out the issue of them placing all of these kids in more advanced math classes (so they look good in reports) that may have had "good" grades last year, but couldn't pass the state tests. All of these kids are failing now and parents want their kids back in regular classes, but they won't do it. So, kids and parents are whining about bad grades, "fear" of scary teacher who gives them accurate grades, and the enormous amounts of time for homework (which happens when you never learned it in the first place and are so far behind.) Rather than fess up, they've been writing him up for insane insubordination, like joking with a kid about naked books (uncovered), "refusing" to help a child in the after school non-paid tutorial, and the asshat principal I got fired two years ago wrote him up for something made up back then. No kidding. He wrote a reply and gave it to the superintendent complaining about this, which goes to the asshat personnel director (another asshat ex-principal). Guess what? Out of the blue they wrote him up on a 45 day notice for all of this, saying if he refuses to "fix" his problems, they will fire him. I have NEVER heard of anyone being given a 45 day notice. I don't even know if they gave one to the teacher in our district who was having sex with a student.

I'm just SO done with the whole school system and too many parents not standing up and dealing with problems, but just trying to find blame. They've got teachers who do nothing and teach the kids S&*&*&*T, they all pass, and any teacher who has any morals who gets that kids afterward has a HUGE job trying to catch them up. Are they going after them? Noooooo. They don't get parent complaints about that. They only get parent complaints about low grades, not inflated grades, and they start threatening teachers when students with low grades have crazy parents who threaten lawsuits (especially if they have dark skin.) I hate, hate, hate, to say this, but it's like teachers can't act like mature adults any more, but have to get in the sandbox with the admin. and parents and threaten lawsuits. The bullying going on against teachers by admin. and parents is so out of control and no one talks about it. I don't know one single teacher who doesn't inflate grades (including myself) because of a fear of retribution. I know too many teachers who make sure every single kid passes so they don't have problems.

And this is when we have 30 to 40% of kids who can't get a high school diploma. 80% of high school graduates are two YEARS behind in basic math and English skills in community colleges, and they are going broke trying to provide these classes.

Sigh. 10 weeks until summer.

Trakehner
Apr. 8, 2012, 12:21 AM
I'm so sorry for the both of you.

It's been a long time since teachers could teach (and not have the useless parents flapping their arms and gums about little Johnny not being a mouth-breathing twit with a major case of the stupids). Children need to have respect and feelings of worth...nothing about them actually earning a reason to be respected or having worth...just existing is good enough. And none of those AP classes or valedictorians....they make the dumb students feel bad and too many whites and asians win it, so it must be unfair and somehow racist.

Any chance working for a private school with actual values and curriculum?

Tapperjockey
Apr. 8, 2012, 12:32 AM
You know.. people often talk about wanting to leave the planet a better place for their children. Maybe more focus needs to be on leaving better children for the planet.

BTDT .. I don't have any answers in regards to the appalling education system in place right now.. but I do empathize. Frankly, it scares me.

Beentheredonethat
Apr. 8, 2012, 12:44 AM
Trakhener--Private schools are just as bad. I had a kid in my class puzzled about why I didn't let him retake the test until he got a good grade like they did in his private school. Those parents are paying out of pocket for tuition, and they want those grades they are buying. And the pay is generally WAY worse in private schools. And there are no unions, so if you don't please the parents, you get complaints, you get fired no matter what.

It scares me, too. A lot. I'm too the point I'm so beaten down I just want to give up--pass all the kids, don't do any work. (I've been doing homework all spring break.) I know I wouldn't not have a single complaint from anyone. I morally can't get there. I have kids who want to learn and be pushed and parents who have their kids in my class because they know they will improve. I have to focus on them and let the others go. Sigh. Even the one who's been in 12 schools in 7 years and mom yells at him and he's so confused and so smart, but the only way he knows to get attention is to get someone to yell at him . .

I have a girl in class who had the "easy, fun" math and language teachers last year. She did no homework because there wasn't any. She got great grades. Her testing scores dropped so dramatically her mother made sure she was put in my and my friend's classes because we both consistently have students whose scores raise the most every year. Her mother loves us. But, she's not complaining and threatening to sue the district, so nothing will be done.

Most of my kids are good, and the parents are great and really supportive, when they can figure out the truth from their manipulative darlings. A lot are immigrants and really know the value of education and work. It's just some are overwhelmed with their two jobs, or losing their homes, or being beaten by spouses.

Alagirl
Apr. 8, 2012, 12:54 AM
Hang in there.

We need you! :yes:

As parent of a 14yo, I do not envy you your job.
But as parent of a too smart for his own good 14 yo, it is you I want in the classroom.


But I understand, the squeaky wheel gets the oil. And I understand that the l;east scholasticly inclined people tend to be the most squeaky....

And I so understand that as you are battle scared your energy and enthusiasm wanes and vanishes.

Currently I owe about 3 teachers sturdy head gear as they are banging their heads against the wall as I am....but I appreciate their hard work.

Calvincrowe
Apr. 8, 2012, 01:31 AM
I'm a 19 year veteran of middle school LA/History/Literature. I hear you, but...maybe I'm a Pollyanna or something. I have a few 'squeaky wheel' parents, and my administration is the shits, but gosh darn it--I've got great kids. Okay, I'll qualify that--I have 95% great students.

Those 5% who aren't...oh, golly. Parental abdication of all things "parenty" is what is doing me in, in this job. Piss Poor Parent Disease (PPPD) is rampant and spreading like wildfire! When kindergarteners arrive not knowing their last name, colors, numbers, letters...you get the picture, essentially 3 year olds in a 6 year old body, you know PPPD has taken hold. Now, take that kid forward to 8th grade--but he's got the skills and maturity of a 5th grader. Wheee!!! Such fun for me! And, when Little Johnny can't "read" well enough to stick it out in high school..because PPPD dictated that parents had as little interaction (ie-don't speak to, read to, discipline, instill manners, responsibility) with them as possible. Le Sigh....

Beentheredonethat
Apr. 8, 2012, 01:49 AM
Thanks Alagirl.

Calvin--We're in a lot of the same boat--same grade and classes. But, it sounds like your boat is a LOT nicer than mine. It sounds like mine when I started 15 years ago. Then I had 5% problems. Now I have about 40-50% problems. It's just overwhelming. We've had suicide prevention speakers in for the whole school a few months back, and then they were back in last week to talk to the teachers because we have such a huge problem. It's not just the several kids a week thinking suicide, and the few we've 5150'd (sent to the hospital), and I've had about five I sent to the counselors because I was worried. I started Freecycle at school because we have a lot of kids who don't have enough clothes. Then there are the ones whose parents are drug addicts, in jail, being beaten, no parents home, live in dangerous places, don't speak English . . . Then there are the ones who have no skills and have never done any work, and are so far behind they can't catch up, and the ones that refuse to work. I have six kids this year who literally will do nothing unless I remind them every 60 seconds to stop looking at the wall or playing with their pencil--I put on the grade report "will not stay on task and has to be reminded 50-60 times a day to look at work." I don't know what it is. I've never seen anything like it. Oh, and this is with 35 kids in a class. And it will get worse next year because of budget cuts.

Tapperjockey
Apr. 8, 2012, 01:52 AM
I have friends who are parents, that have a lot of issues with schools lately too interestingly enough. One of the big ones they've been complaining about is the amount of homework. Have any of the teachers here, seen an increase in homework over the last, say decade? Is it more now, or are kids whining more or slower or ?? Because I've seen some of the homework that some bring home, and it looks like a lot to me. I don't remember doing that much.. but school was really easy for me too and I liked all my teachers except one (and that was in Kindergarten. She was loopy. She had this sing songy voice. I was so glad when we moved half way through the year. I used to beg my mom not to make me go because I didn't like the teacher).

Alagirl
Apr. 8, 2012, 02:21 AM
I have friends who are parents, that have a lot of issues with schools lately too interestingly enough. One of the big ones they've been complaining about is the amount of homework. Have any of the teachers here, seen an increase in homework over the last, say decade? Is it more now, or are kids whining more or slower or ?? Because I've seen some of the homework that some bring home, and it looks like a lot to me. I don't remember doing that much.. but school was really easy for me too and I liked all my teachers except one (and that was in Kindergarten. She was loopy. She had this sing songy voice. I was so glad when we moved half way through the year. I used to beg my mom not to make me go because I didn't like the teacher).


I don't know if it's more or not...the kid never does it....don't pull my hair, or the wig comes off... :o

but no, really we don't see a lot of homework.
But I do understand that some schools snow the kids under with work...I ahve seen kids so exhausted in the afternoon, having to do about 3 hours worth of work every night, or more.

And that was elementary school.

Beentheredonethat
Apr. 8, 2012, 02:25 AM
Yeah, homework is a big one. No one ever complains about too little. I used to give a LOT more. No matter how much less I give, it's too much. I suppose some give a lot, and I suppose some don't. Honestly, when I really talk to the kids about it, they aren't doing that much. Sometimes I have to get down to details to make the point. My 12 year olds are supposed to read 500 pages of book(s) in 10 weeks. Every kid in school is supposed to read 20 minutes a day. Most kids can read a 200 page book in a weekend easily, but I get that it took them 10 weeks to read a 300 page book, which works out to 30 pages a week, or 6 pages a day. Really? It takes you 20 minutes to read 6 pages? Don't think so.

Most kids are on the computer fooling around, texting, on the phone, whatever. I get a lot of "I finally stopped talking on the phone/watching tv/IMing my friend WHILE doing my homework, and it takes me so much less time, now."

Most of my kids used to do homework. Now, most don't. I think a lot of it is the technology and how much time they spend on it. I think it's an average of about 8 HOURS a day. I had the study somewhere. Honestly, in my class, the "hard" class, if they actually spent the WHOLE time in class doing work, they'd hardly have any homework.

This is the worksheet on homework I have for parents who say that:


My Child is Spending Many, Many Hours Doing Homework. What Do I Do?

The average child should spend an average of about two hours a day on homework, including the twenty minutes minimum reading every child should do every day. We did a survey of every teacher, and it came out to about an hour for core, a half hour for math, and fifteen minutes for science each day.

Some Reasons Why Students Take Overly Long to Do Their Work
1. They are below grade level in their work and/or reading, and thus the work is very hard for them. A student below grade level will have to take longer to complete work because they not only need to do required work, but they need to catch up.

2. They are not actually working. Very often when monitored, it is discovered that students are playing video games or on computers, daydreaming, doodling, or something else. There is surprising amount of this going on.

3. They are using their time very inefficiently, thus doubling or tripling their workload. Often they are repeating work over and over, or sitting there thinking instead of doing. You’d be surprised how effective it is to just DO something and get anything written down. At least it’s a start, and that is often the hardest part.
“Do or do not. There is no try.” –Yoda

4. They have put off a long term assignment and are trying to do ten or twenty hours of work the night before it is due, and thus have creating the stress by not doing the work all along.

Things I Can Do to Help My Child Do Homework Faster and More Efficiently

1. If you do not know, ask the teacher whether your child is at grade level in his/her work. If not, just realize it will take longer until they get better at it. Practice makes perfect, and if they are behind in their practice, it will take even more of it to catch up.

2. Monitor your child carefully. Make a log that minute by minute shows what they are doing with their time. This can be amazingly enlightening. Find patterns in what they are doing and try to find ways to improve them such as:
--giving timed tasks, like saying they must have a half page written in twenty minutes. After they completed a set amount of work, they can take a break or switch to something else.
--have them DO something instead of “thinking,” or “studying.” Instead of “studying” for a test, make sure they are writing down the information over and over. Instead of “thinking” of what to write for an essay, they need to just start writing. It’s amazing how just DOING something can generate ideas.
--timing how long things should take, and get them focused on completing it in time given and then taking a break. Have them come back to it later and check it is done correctly.
--have a check-off system where they do the work in steps and come and get it checked by you at each step.

3. Make sure their calendar has the homework accurately written down for each class. Note when assignments are due, and how to divide the work over time. They should put when the work is due, and steps needed in the calendar. Some kids use color-coding or symbols for this.

Alagirl
Apr. 8, 2012, 02:32 AM
Keep it coming!

I would actually try it if not the slightest involvement on my part would result in a blowup...:no:

Maybe I need to do a child swap: I did homework with the kid's friend. Really easy....I can take him on and let his mom take care of mine! :lol:

Tapperjockey
Apr. 8, 2012, 02:37 AM
Yeah, homework is a big one. No one ever complains about too little. I used to give a LOT more. No matter how much less I give, it's too much. I suppose some give a lot, and I suppose some don't. Honestly, when I really talk to the kids about it, they aren't doing that much. Sometimes I have to get down to details to make the point. My 12 year olds are supposed to read 500 pages of book(s) in 10 weeks. Every kid in school is supposed to read 20 minutes a day. Most kids can read a 200 page book in a weekend easily, but I get that it took them 10 weeks to read a 300 page book, which works out to 30 pages a week, or 6 pages a day. Really? It takes you 20 minutes to read 6 pages? Don't think so.

Most kids are on the computer fooling around, texting, on the phone, whatever. I get a lot of "I finally stopped talking on the phone/watching tv/IMing my friend WHILE doing my homework, and it takes me so much less time, now."

Most of my kids used to do homework. Now, most don't. I think a lot of it is the technology and how much time they spend on it. I think it's an average of about 8 HOURS a day. I had the study somewhere. Honestly, in my class, the "hard" class, if they actually spent the WHOLE time in class doing work, they'd hardly have any homework.

This is the worksheet on homework I have for parents who say that:


My Child is Spending Many, Many Hours Doing Homework. What Do I Do?

The average child should spend an average of about two hours a day on homework, including the twenty minutes minimum reading every child should do every day. We did a survey of every teacher, and it came out to about an hour for core, a half hour for math, and fifteen minutes for science each day.

Some Reasons Why Students Take Overly Long to Do Their Work
1. They are below grade level in their work and/or reading, and thus the work is very hard for them. A student below grade level will have to take longer to complete work because they not only need to do required work, but they need to catch up.

2. They are not actually working. Very often when monitored, it is discovered that students are playing video games or on computers, daydreaming, doodling, or something else. There is surprising amount of this going on.

3. They are using their time very inefficiently, thus doubling or tripling their workload. Often they are repeating work over and over, or sitting there thinking instead of doing. You’d be surprised how effective it is to just DO something and get anything written down. At least it’s a start, and that is often the hardest part.
“Do or do not. There is no try.” –Yoda

4. They have put off a long term assignment and are trying to do ten or twenty hours of work the night before it is due, and thus have creating the stress by not doing the work all along.

Things I Can Do to Help My Child Do Homework Faster and More Efficiently

1. If you do not know, ask the teacher whether your child is at grade level in his/her work. If not, just realize it will take longer until they get better at it. Practice makes perfect, and if they are behind in their practice, it will take even more of it to catch up.

2. Monitor your child carefully. Make a log that minute by minute shows what they are doing with their time. This can be amazingly enlightening. Find patterns in what they are doing and try to find ways to improve them such as:
--giving timed tasks, like saying they must have a half page written in twenty minutes. After they completed a set amount of work, they can take a break or switch to something else.
--have them DO something instead of “thinking,” or “studying.” Instead of “studying” for a test, make sure they are writing down the information over and over. Instead of “thinking” of what to write for an essay, they need to just start writing. It’s amazing how just DOING something can generate ideas.
--timing how long things should take, and get them focused on completing it in time given and then taking a break. Have them come back to it later and check it is done correctly.
--have a check-off system where they do the work in steps and come and get it checked by you at each step.

3. Make sure their calendar has the homework accurately written down for each class. Note when assignments are due, and how to divide the work over time. They should put when the work is due, and steps needed in the calendar. Some kids use color-coding or symbols for this.

I will totally share those.

Beentheredonethat
Apr. 8, 2012, 02:39 AM
Oh, I have LOTS of I've written down over the years. Hmm. Maybe this is my ticket out--a book for parents!


Your Child's Brain
Remember, your child is growing, and so is their brain. They don't have all of the connections there yet, so some things aren't working at an adult level. This is useful to remember when they don't seem to be able to do something in a certain way.

For example, they may truly understand something, but when you ask them to explain it, they can't do it verbally. They may be able to write it down, though. Or, they may be able to explain it to you verbally, but what they write down doesn't even come close to that. Sometimes when you ask them to read their writing out loud, they won't read what they wrote. These kinds of things show you where they are weak and where they are strong. One of the things to strengthen these connections in the brain is to go back and forth between listening, seeing, writing, and speaking orally, so they are constantly having to do the same thing in different ways.

As a parent, you can really help them with this. If their writing is not seeming to be quite right, ask them to read it out loud. If they change what they wrote or can't do it, you can see the problem. Have them stop and think and verbally explain it to you and clarify until it is really clear. Then have them write down what they said. Do they do that? They don't always. Have them read what they wrote and see if they can see it's not the same as what they said. This going back and forth between different ways of communication is really helpful in strengthening their weak areas and helping them truly master something. (You can't truly master something if you only understand it in one way.)

"In a baby, the brain over-produces brain cells (neurons) and connections between brain cells (synapses) and then starts pruning them back around the age of three. The process is much like the pruning of a tree. By cutting back weak branches, others flourish. The second wave of synapse formation described by Giedd showed a spurt of growth in the frontal cortex just before puberty (age 11 in girls, 12 in boys) and then a pruning back in adolescence.
Even though it may seem that having a lot of synapses is a particularly good thing, the brain actually consolidates learning by pruning away synapses and wrapping white matter (myelin) around other connections to stabilize and strengthen them. The period of pruning, in which the brain actually loses gray matter, is as important for brain development as is the period of growth. For instance, even though the brain of a teenager between 13 and 18 is maturing, they are losing 1 percent of their gray matter every year.

Giedd hypothesizes that the growth in gray matter followed by the pruning of connections is a particularly important stage of brain development in which what teens do or do not do can affect them for the rest of their lives. He calls this the "use it or lose it principle," and tells FRONTLINE, "If a teen is doing music or sports or academics, those are the cells and connections that will be hardwired. If they're lying on the couch or playing video games or MTV, those are the cells and connections that are going to survive."

Work In Progress - Adolescent Brains Are A Work In Progress | Inside The Teenage Brain | FRONTLINE | PBS

"A key theme in the adolescent development literature is that knowledge is constructed. We build our brains through our learning experiences. The nature of the learning experiences we undertake will dictate how the brain develops and the connections that are pruned. Some of the key skills students must develop in order to learn through experience are how to:
reflect on learning
link new knowledge to existing knowledge
establish what is true and accurate
challenge what knowledge is untrue and inaccurate.
Giving students opportunities to be reflective improves the quality of learning, since learning with understanding is more likely to promote transfer of knowledge than rote learning or memorising information. New knowledge needs to be relevant to the learner and linked to their current knowledge base.

Knowledge that is delivered in a variety of contexts and through a range of learning strategies is more likely to be applied or transferred broadly. Organising information and making explicit links between concepts help students to store and apply their knowledge. As students specialise, they need to have an in-depth grasp of the relationships between concepts and the way knowledge is organised within a discipline, as well as factual information related to the subject."

Closed for construction - adolescent brain development in the middle years


More cool sites I found:
Parents League of New York: Publications » Selected Review Articles » Helping Children Learn to Pay Attention
Improving Reading For Children and Teens (Child Development Institute)
A Brain Boost - Developing a Child's Mind Through Food - Back to School Headquarters Articles - Children Today

Beentheredonethat
Apr. 8, 2012, 02:42 AM
Useful Information to Help With Daily Work
Weekly Vocabulary Quizzes

We have ten words a week. They always have to do with something we're doing in class, so the words and what we do reinforce each other. Some weeks are harder than others. For the test, they must spell the word correctly and write a correct definition. I do not give word for word definitions because I do not want memorization, but rather understanding.

Ways to Improve and Study

--Unfortunately, usually the easiest miracle cure is to ACTUALLY study.

--Take practice quizzes the same way we do in class, where the word is read to them and they have to write the word and definition.

--Study by writing each word a definition a couple of times a day, or study/write 3 or 4 of the words and definitions each day.

--Try to draw the meaning of the word. If they can do that, they can probably get a correct definition.

--If test taking is hard for them, don't stress by trying to get all ten definitions and missing them all. Instead, just focus on spelling ten words and getting four definitions and get a C. Then work on six for a B, and so on.

--Think of examples of the word, if it applies. If they can think of examples, they can probably come up with a definition.

--Always take the time given in the test to review the spelling and the definition. Words should be correctly capitalized or not. They should listen when I say the word three times and sound it out to themselves and see if they can find any mistakes. They should also read their own definitions. Sometimes they find obvious mistakes that we all make when our brain works faster than our pen. I always wait until everyone is done writing each word before going on to the next, so there is always plenty of time to do this in the test. I also repeat the words at the end so they can check spelling.

--As long as they're consistently doing better, it's OK. Some weeks may be harder than others, and that's understandable, but in general everyone should be able to spell ten words and remember at least two definitions, which is 12/20, a D-.

Alagirl
Apr. 8, 2012, 02:42 AM
Yes! Do write that book!
I have just bookmarked this thread for future reference.

Beentheredonethat
Apr. 8, 2012, 02:44 AM
Journals

They are given twice a week, generally on Mondays and Wednesdays and due on Fridays. It's up to them to adjust when they want to do them according to their schedule. I've given them some leeway, so it should not be difficult. This will always be homework. If they are behind on journals, they will be on lunch detention every day starting the next week until they are caught up.

They can also make up missing journals at any time. The ONLY thing they are graded on is writing the correct amount. So, even if they don't write about the correct topic, it's OK (though the purpose is to learn to do that and they SHOULD be trying.)

The ONLY rules for journal writing is AT LEAST 20 minutes of writing NONSTOP. The first day of class we will do this in class, and everyone should be able to get to 250 words. The first quarter I expect a minimum of 250 words, about one page. Each quarter it will go up 50 words and 1/2 page. If they do this as directed, they will easily be able to get much more written and improve their writing in so many ways.

As the year goes on, I should stop seeing them trying to "fill" a page by making a really big heading, large margins, big writing, or really big spaces between paragraphs. (Yes, I'm aware and make comments as such according to their ability.) They should not stop at a page or number, but keep writing the 20 minutes.

Also, if they're not doing the requirements in 20 minutes, they need to keep writing until it's correct.

The reasoning behind this is to teach them to write and not worry about having it perfect. This is a problem with a lot of kids who get "stuck" in writing and won't put anything down until it's perfect. This forces them over that until they can learn to just start writing. It teaches them they actually DO have something to write if they just sit down and do it. It also strengthens their hand and increases the speed of their writing. Students will note how much faster they can get things down very quickly if they do as I direct.

If they are really stuck, or you notice them not keeping the pencil moving, they need to write ANYTHING. The can write, "I don't know what to write. I don't know what to write." You'd be surprised how quickly they will figure out something to write if they just keep moving the pencil. If they need to do that, that's fine.

Everyone is working on different skills. Hopefully, as their skills increase, it becomes easier and easier to fill the page, and they are not only doing that, but writing better. As they year goes on, I start trying to get them to focus more and more on writing in paragraphs by topic, using suggestions from WAGS in their writing, improving their voice, experimenting with different styles of writing, etc.

So, this should be an easy A+ grade. I will keep a chart in class of what they have done. If they haven't written enough or long enough, I will hand it back to them unstamped, and they should do more and hand it in again.

Beentheredonethat
Apr. 8, 2012, 02:47 AM
Organization

One of the biggest obstacles for a lot of 7th graders is organization. They lose their work or forget what to do because they didn't write it down. Some of them are master time wasters and can spend an hour doing something that takes five minutes. I'm sure you've seen this at home when it takes twenty minutes to wash their hands or take out the garbage.

Everything I do is focused on being organized and using their time more efficiently, making sure they are aware of how long it takes them to do something.

+The FIRST thing we do every day in class is to write down the homework from the board in front of them. This is on the homework page, so parents should be able to see if this is being done.

+ If you can, set up a time to sit down with your child each day and review the calendar versus the email, then go check by check through what needs to be done.

+ If their calendar is not looking good and their work is not being done, at this point they need daily binder organization. All papers need to be gone through and put in the correct place each day.

+When finished with work, do a check off list on the calendar, check to make sure they have what they need, (like assignment sheets, journals, or a reading book,) and it's in the backpack by the door at the end of the day ready to go in the morning. If you can do this with them stringently for about two weeks, it might really set a new pattern and break the disorganization

+Give them visual deadlines in time periods to get things done, as with the journal. So, for twenty minutes of work, you should see five questions answered, or three paragraphs written. If they complete a certain amount of work, they can take a break.

+Figure out how they work best. Some kids work best right after school. Some work best by running around and playing, eating, then sitting down to work. Some work best in a long block of time, and some doing small chunks of work and taking breaks. Teach them to be aware of this and schedule their time accordingly

Beentheredonethat
Apr. 8, 2012, 02:48 AM
OK. Enough for tonight. My keyboard's freaking out.

Alagirl
Apr. 8, 2012, 02:51 AM
LOL! poor keyboard.

Copy and paste, so you don't have to rewrite it! :yes:

Beentheredonethat
Apr. 8, 2012, 02:52 AM
Yeah, I am. NO WAY am I typing that much that fast. It's sticking on everything else (except for right now) so kind of making me crazy.

Alagirl
Apr. 8, 2012, 02:54 AM
It needs chocolate! :cool:

Coanteen
Apr. 8, 2012, 03:51 AM
I'm kinda confused about why your friends' predicament is the parents' fault.

I understand there's a systemic problem with admin, and parental complaints fit into that. This causes admin to make all teachers (including yourself) to inflate grades, pretty much across the board.
Except for the odd case like your friend, when suddenly - BOOM! Kid who was to all appearances doing just fine per every (grade-inflating, including yourself) teacher they've ever had does very badly.

Of course parents would complain about this. If every teacher before was inflating grades, how would they have any clue that their little darling was "really" behind standards? The supposedly objective measurements of little darling's achievements were just fine until they got to meanie's class.

So what will the parent believe - that this one teacher is wrong, or that every single teacher before the "mean" one was wrong?

And if every single teacher before was wrong then...well, it's kind of every single teacher's fault, isn't it? From the parental POV.

I do understand that the underlying cause of admin pacification of parents leading to universal grade inflation by teachers, but once the point of universal grade inflation is reached, you no longer can blame individual parents. The system was screwed before their first child ever entered it, all they're doing now is reacting to it.

bumknees
Apr. 8, 2012, 05:32 AM
Before you read my post I admire everyone who are and ever were a teacher. They chose ot take children of people they may or may not know and try ( yes try because sometimes there are for what ever reasn personality conflict, medical what ever reason they just can not) to teach them something that will make them better people when they leave their rooms at the end of the school year. My grandparents were teachers who retired in the late 70's early 80's who ae still to this day talked about in the school district as examples of good teachers. So yes I respect teachers. I do not envy them in todays enviroment but I do respect them.

That said the profession of teaching has changed so much in the last few decades that teachers/teaching in many states have changed. I remember (and I have said this more than once) the last two straws concerning my two sons. The first was concerning my youngest.He was smart Im not going ot say the ''smartest'' in his class because I do not know I can only say if he did in the class what he did at home most likely. I know that leading up to my decision he never had any home work, never ''studied'' spelling words other than to what I know now was to make mom happy type look over, never really did anything other than a look over which I now believe was only to make me happy. His papers were never really''graded'' just a check mark as though the teacher never really looked at them OR if you grew up where I did during the time frame I did ment they were not correct and to recheck and figure out what was wrong and study for the test, so many things were running through my brain and I was restricting my son from playing. And I began to get ''' daily report cards'' from his teacher stating that he was being disrputive in teh class room so all the more reason for me to restrict his play time. Because we do not disrupt the class while the teacher is teaching you just do not do it. That is rule #1 when in school you listen you do as your instructed if lesson or fire drill you may learn something or you may save your own life either way good idea. I asked him WTF he was doing as I egan a collecton of these daily reports he insisted he was doing nothing disruptive... I asked him specifictly and he told me bettig a book and reading. So he got in rouble for lieng to me.. That is hardly disruptive.. When th teacher informed me he wold be loosing 2 weeks of recess AND gym class I went in and asked what is he doing swinging from the lighting of somethig? her answer... ( and yes these are her exact words) "No jr bum is finishing all of his classwork, all of his homework, quietly getting up going over to those book shelves <pointing over to book shelves cloest to where he was sitting> then quietly going back to his seat and reading his book he selected." :o I asked " And this is disruptive how?" her reply " well it makes the other children feel bad because he is he first to get everything done and HE NEVER MISSES A PROBLEM IN MATH OR SPELLING WORD ON THE TEST" <cap for imphass mine> :o:mad: in need of fighting to keep hands from aound throat icon... Yes she was punishing my ds for being a good student... When I was the age my ds was waaaaaayyyyyy back in the early 70's when teachers had kids like that they would hold meetings with the parents, princial, themselves and who ever else had to be involved( can you tell I was not one of those kids) because the kid was thought to be bored in class and bumped him/her up a grade or two or three as necessary for the kid to want to learn not punish the kid because he happen to be ''smarter'' than the other kids in hte class. I am sure that there was some sort of testing involved to see where the kid belonged. Again I was not one of those kids. BUT I knew several And before anyone says it is not good for a kid to skip grades like that I knew several who sarted out in my kindergarden class who skipped as many as 3 grades and they all turned out fine. Maybe it was the way the particular schoo/district did or did not do something I do not know. but today they are well rounded adults who have both average and bright kids. But to punish a kid who is doing things right? there is something wrong with that. I removed my kid that very day and brought him home to school. Am I as qulatified a any techer out there? no. Did I make some mistakes? Im sure I did. Did I do the right thing ? At that time yes I did. Do I wish I could go back and do something diffrently? Yes sure I do but I can not say what here in public I might get arrested. But I am confident I did hte best for my ds as I could coniering it was not going ot get any better. A few years later in a diffrent school same district I came as close as possible to a kock down drag em out argument as one can have with a teacher over rows_ vs colloms l after I got tired of her marking every singe mather problem wrong on same kids math homework( we talked about him just taking book from hom and doing homework at home) math home work. I would check it with paper, then on calculator then have a retired teacher check it... his teacher was wrong and kid was correct...

Anyway on to other ds... Dispite me having many 3rd 4th 5th 6th thoughts of keeping my oldest ds where he was because he was being beat up almost daily and being punished for self defense until our atty said fine next time say fine when I get home Im contacting atty and fileing charges for failure to protect and see how that floats. We both figured it would not float very well as the school and the district had just lost a wrongful death suit due o a girl dieing because they refused her access to her inhailer while on a field trip to local amusement park. Long story short they stopped suspending my son for selfdefense.. But not until long after they never suspended the attacker which was always wrong. but karma can kick butt my ds' tormentor it seems was in a auto accident about a month after graduation and is now oaralized from neck down.. karama is a female dog.. pity I could not go after the little born on wrong side of the sheets, I have no sympathy for him.. But anway.. That should have been a good enough reason but it was not. I fell for hte whole hook line and oh your kid had ADD thing. I should have listend to people who are much better qualtified than a bunch of teachers on that one. (But teachers have a way of saying things like well we think and if you do not agree we will contact what ever version of dss in what ever state your in for failure to educate type threats) So in kindergarden I listened. I signed an IEP. I did not even listen to their reasoning or the plan. I just signed the darn thing. Put my kid on what ever drug they wanted. Even though our Dr was saying I dont think so but if you really want it. I was saying the SCHOOL wants it.. he would rub chin and say mmm ooohhh mm ok... and write out the script with several refills.. I took it to the base pharmacy...I should have known that ritilan with several refills was not happening due to the nature of the beast.. but it was filled and refilled and my ds was doing just fine... I took my ds to MY dr and the end result was neurologically speaking we find that this child is NOT likely to be add/adhd. The report was somehow lost between the drs office and the file at the original school district and the one where we are now. we moved due to change of life one might say. So we hd ot go thorugh the whole IEP thing agian which I refused ot sign any of them and I had social workers on my door every year threatening harrassing etc.. even draging me to court more than once( actually for four years), accusing me of educational neglect. Finally I said my child isstill in school getting ''educated'' yes? He is still in the class the school thinks he should be in YES? So how am I neglecting his education because I refuse to sign some peice of paper that I agee to what they want to do with him? That and because I refuse to put my ds on drugs. I asked if he was bouncing off any walls same answer every time I was drug into court.. no he sits quietly. So why does he need drugs.. Because he was d'x with add by who mmm doesnt say... what dr dx'd him with add.. some dr in X no that was a teacher who sugested it no dr ever did... the same every year almost word for word..So why does he need drugs? Well he fidgets.. Do yo usit pefectly till for those full 8hrs with those small breaks inbetween? mm no of course not . But you expect children to sit perfectly still? How? well they have drugs to help. SO you want the drugs to help the kids do you take drugs to sit still? well no but.. And it went on like that.. But belive it or not that was not the reason why I removed my ds.. the reason why I removed my ds was I was told by more than one teacher yes teacher that the following no longer counted EXCEPT in the state proficency tests spelling, math skills. Because they all use computers with spell check on them and they all use calculators and it is not the answer to the math problem it they want it is how they got there they want to see...That is why I removed my ds from school and brought him home. Because to me spelling( not typing) does count, Math does count and that includes not just how do you get there but getting the correct answer. And getting the correct answer at least for the basic math add, subtrat, multply, divide with out the use of a calculator, and spelling with out he use of a computer ecause someday dispite smartphones your going to need to spell something and if you cant you can not pull a computer out of your pocket and use spell check. Heck my lap top went on vacation and when it came back it left it's spell check on hte beach somewhee AND I can not for what ever reason reinstall the wordprocessing program to ''reget'' spell check so Im screwed. Ive tried over 10 time to reinstall program and it gets so far and tells me sorry no can do.. So one can not always count on spell check one has to be able ot count on the grey matter. And now for what ever reason they are no longer teaching hand writting. Heck I remember when we HAD to have a cartredge pen from 1st grade on to learn how to write propelry and now they can not even be bothered to teach cursive...

And we wonder why only 4 out of every 10 kid in my state are ready for college and why every state school has to offer remedial classes.

I graduated in 1982. We had no profeciancy testing. out teachers were expected to teach. We still to a point had corporal punishment and students had a point of respet of thatand ther were no parents saying If you do that I will sue with maybe in calif but they were always a difrent type of birdkwim, and teachers were not scared of their students for the most part in some innercity school yeah probably. Teachers wee not strangled by PC OR their union on what to teach or ven to teach. Yes we read things like Tom Sawyer, To kill a mocking bird, we saw no reason to edit language because ya know what we did not fear words like today.

Again I resect the profession of teaching but at least where I live teahers are not teaching their union has not allowed them to for a very long time ( I think I read beginning in 87 or 88) the contracts had tied their hands and basically said teach to the tests we are insisting on. An now they almost do not teach at all But sned home these doodly sheets that ask the parents to do can you find 7pictures cans of paint to help your kids do homework when their kids are in kindergarden or if this levey doesnt pass we cant get evey kid this or that ( name what ever latest tech thingy).. Instead of saying if this doesnt pass we can not get text books or lab equipment or what ever its the latest electronics or even give raises to every school board employee...

Sorry education just is not education for the most part any more. It is a babysitting thing now.
I would have given my eye teeth for a teacher like you If I could have hired you to teach my kids k-12 or eve n12 of you I would have given up eating for those 12 year to afford 12 of you. But instead I did what I thought best. Because I could not find 12 teachers who taught. the 1 or 2 I did find were retired and had given up their licenses( that is the correct term yes) and flat out refused to go back until the current way of teaching goes away and teachers are allowed to teach again.

So from a teachers stand point how do ''we'' as techers and community change education? DO we pour more $ in to it?
Do we return the ''power'' back to the school Ie the power to disipline back to the zoo keeper instead of the animals?
Do we take the bite away from the parents around here there are few school who buckle under the pressure of the PTO..
Do you the teacher stand up to your union and say look we are just being babysitters now how about we teach again and this is what we are going ot do and you stfu and listen to us those you repesent... Maybe it is not as bad in someplaces as it is in others..

How do we change so things get better? Was education wonderful when I went no of course not I sure as heck know how to add, subtact, multiply and divide and once upon a time knew some formulas that used to be on the front and back covers of the math books are they still there? Cant type worth crap but I can spell...

DarkStarrx
Apr. 8, 2012, 06:55 AM
I'm going to come from the student's perspective, I graduated HS in 07. The homework may not be any more than it was 10/15 years ago, but the pressure certainly is, it started in MS for me. Teachers and guidance counselors were heckling us honors students to pick a career path and start thinking about colleges. I was very overwhelmed and when I went to HS I dropped from Honors in everything to just History and English. I also got incredibly sick that year. Counselors/Teachers were pressuring all of us to take on more clubs,sports and E.C.s. More A.P. (which in all honesty did nothing for my college career). I wanted to take a gap year and do my 13th year somewhere abroad. I was told flat out I wouldn't get into the college of my choice if I did that. I really enjoyed learning(save Maths), but sometimes it just all caught up with me and I would be exhausted/could care less a good portion of the school days. My nieces are starting MS and I can already see the pressure starting, they are not attending the same school I did.

I'm not saying kids aren't lazy or liars etc. Nor is it an excuse. I'm just saying that I think a lot of students are feeling a lot more pressure not only from parents, but from school officials as well these days.

SMF11
Apr. 8, 2012, 08:27 AM
I think there's a divide in education, so that everything everyone's saying is true. There's crap education, to be blunt, where the kids skate by and the teachers pass them along. And there's more elite education, where the homework and pressure are tremendous. The first set of kids aren't going to the Ivy League -- generally -- but those in the second group might be (or other top schools).

OP, your view of private schools is overly bleak. Are there *no* academic private schools near you? Our public school is one of the worst in the state, by any measure, and my kids go to private school. It's rigorous, and those kids value achievement -- it is cool to be smart, and not cool to get poor grades. Parents understand that the school prepares kids for top high schools and so absolutely there is no pressure on teachers to pass kids along.

Don't for a minute think I think this is a good situation. I think it is terrible that you have to pay a small fortune to get a good education where I live (I do realize that is not true everywhere, I do know there are many many great public schools which tend to be in wealthier districts).

dghunter
Apr. 8, 2012, 09:52 AM
I'm currently having issues as well with admin and parents. It's ridiculous and I am looking for something else next year. No matter what I'm not returning. You can't do anything without admin support.

Calvincrowe
Apr. 8, 2012, 10:15 AM
School is not the same as it was. Period. As in everything else in life, the educational system is not static, it changes as technology and the world around it have.

Homework. No, I do not give more now than I did 19 years ago. The difference for me now, is that roughly 50% of the students will not complete work sent home, whether that is unfinished assignments from the day or deliberate "at home practice". Their reasons are myriad, but come down to: no one makes them, no one is home, they don't care, they are "over scheduled" with either parent duties (and are dragged along) or their own "activities".

Parents. Parents have very different expectations of school than they did 19 years ago. When I began (I teach in a small town/suburb/commuter city on the outskirts of a large Metro area), parents were very supportive--when you "got in trouble" at school, the school was right and the kid was wrong and punishment was expected and dealt with. Today, parents question EVERYTHING that is said/done/sent home/not sent home etc. The kid is nearly ALWAYS the victim of an unfair teacher or system, not responsible (man, you should hear some of the excuses!), and should get another day/chance. One example: I had a student with a terrible leg injury, who was tutored at home for 3 months at the beginning of the school year. He returned to school, I got him rolling, and he proved to be a sub-par learner--very lazy, D/C work, not much contact with parent (despite my efforts). Now, when the 8th Grade Research Project From Hell is due, he needs a 504 plan to "give him support for his disability". WTH? What disability? The fact that he walks with a limp?? That he wasted days of research time, lied to his mom repeatedly, and admitted such in a meeting to set up said 504? ARGH!

Technology. This, to me, is the most frustrating area of education. Kids are NOT savvy in this area, for the most part. Sure, they can play a mean game of Angry Birds, but suck at using the internet as a tool for research or learning. They all have Smartphones, but since they won't use proper spelling, they can't use the internet properly. And parents and technology! Oh, good lord! If you give me an email address and I send out daily "what's happening/homework/project/test coming up" emails---READ THEM! Don't bitch at me when I send you an email (one mom told us to stop emailing her...she didn't need to know what her obnoxious son was doing in school:eek:). Don't tell me you were surprised by the grades your child got, we have an on-line grading system and send home paper detailed progress reports every two weeks. Don't expect me to take your damn call in the middle of class. Don't expect me to call you at 8pm because you just got off work--I've been off for hours. When you set up an appointment with me outside my school day, then don't show up, I have a right to be unhappy with you when you are shocked that I won't wait around or come back to work because you 'forgot'.

Sorry..that turned into a bit of a rant. But, seriously, the pressure created by NCLB and state testing (because all kids are identical, and no one ever just has a bad day or blows off a test!) is immense. My state just implemented a new teacher evaluation system, incorporating how well your students do on the state test. Yikes!

Finally, just because you went to school 20 years ago and are now a parent does not make you an expert in education. I'm a well-trained professional, with commendations and years of education under my belt. I don't futz around on the internet and tell my surgeon how to proceed on my broken leg, so don't tell me how to do my job.

xeroxchick
Apr. 8, 2012, 10:48 AM
Three out of five teachers quit within the first five years. I have taught for 24 years and honestly, I absolutely discourage anyone who expresses an interest in teaching. Do not do it. No student accountability, parents who expect their children to NEVER struggle with anything. Administrators put under unrealistic pressure to make testing standards.
Don't do it y'all.

Ghazzu
Apr. 8, 2012, 10:59 AM
Because to me spelling( not typing) does count, Math does count and that includes not just how do you get there but getting the correct answer. And getting the correct answer at least for the basic math add, subtrat, multply, divide with out the use of a calculator, and spelling with out he use of a computer ecause someday dispite smartphones your going to need to spell something and if you cant you can not pull a computer out of your pocket and use spell check. Heck my lap top went on vacation and when it came back it left it's spell check on hte beach somewhee AND I can not for what ever reason reinstall the wordprocessing program to ''reget'' spell check so Im screwed. Ive tried over 10 time to reinstall program and it gets so far and tells me sorry no can do.. So one can not always count on spell check one has to be able ot count on the grey matter. And now for what ever reason they are no longer teaching hand writting. Heck I remember when we HAD to have a cartredge pen from 1st grade on to learn how to write propelry and now they can not even be bothered to teach cursive...

And we wonder why only 4 out of every 10 kid in my state are ready for college and why every state school has to offer remedial classes.

I graduated in 1982. We had no profeciancy testing. out teachers were expected to teach. We still to a point had corporal punishment and students had a point of respet of thatand ther were no parents saying If you do that I will sue with maybe in calif but they were always a difrent type of birdkwim, and teachers were not scared of their students for the most part in some innercity school yeah probably. Teachers wee not strangled by PC OR their union on what to teach or ven to teach. Yes we read things like Tom Sawyer, To kill a mocking bird, we saw no reason to edit language because ya know what we did not fear words like today.

Again I resect the profession of teaching but at least where I live teahers are not teaching their union has not allowed them to for a very long time ( I think I read beginning in 87 or 88) the contracts had tied their hands and basically said teach to the tests we are insisting on. An now they almost do not teach at all But sned home these doodly sheets that ask the parents to do can you find 7pictures cans of paint to help your kids do homework when their kids are in kindergarden or if this levey doesnt pass we cant get evey kid this or that ( name what ever latest tech thingy).. Instead of saying if this doesnt pass we can not get text books or lab equipment or what ever its the latest electronics or even give raises to every school board employee...

Sorry education just is not education for the most part any more. It is a babysitting thing now.
I would have given my eye teeth for a teacher like you If I could have hired you to teach my kids k-12 or eve n12 of you I would have given up eating for those 12 year to afford 12 of you. But instead I did what I thought best. Because I could not find 12 teachers who taught. the 1 or 2 I did find were retired and had given up their licenses( that is the correct term yes) and flat out refused to go back until the current way of teaching goes away and teachers are allowed to teach again.

So from a teachers stand point how do ''we'' as techers and community change education? DO we pour more $ in to it?
Do we return the ''power'' back to the school Ie the power to disipline back to the zoo keeper instead of the animals?
Do we take the bite away from the parents around here there are few school who buckle under the pressure of the PTO..
Do you the teacher stand up to your union and say look we are just being babysitters now how about we teach again and this is what we are going ot do and you stfu and listen to us those you repesent... Maybe it is not as bad in someplaces as it is in others..

How do we change so things get better? Was education wonderful when I went no of course not I sure as heck know how to add, subtact, multiply and divide and once upon a time knew some formulas that used to be on the front and back covers of the math books are they still there? Cant type worth crap but I can spell...


I hope in your home schooling you make sure to cover the definition of irony...

JanM
Apr. 8, 2012, 11:01 AM
This type of parental behavior, and lazy parenting is exactly why there are at least two Easter Egg hunts cancelled. In Colorado Springs (Old Colorado City specifically), and in Macon GA, they cancelled hunts because the parents were so determined that their child get eggs and goodies that they took over, barreled into the field and started gathering stuff so their little darling wouldn't get upset. It's the same things as sports leagues and contests where everyone gets a trophy, there is no competition to make teams, and no-cut leagues for poor performance by kids who don't even try. It's not doing these kids a favor either.

The few young teachers I know, or (mostly) that I know their parents, last maybe 2 years before they go back to grad school to either move in to administration, or to change fields. As one super-duper young teach said-"I'm nothing but a baby sitter, and I'm not doing this next year"-she's in grad school now, and the education world has lost a wonderful teacher.

bumknees
Apr. 8, 2012, 11:14 AM
Ghazzu
I hope in your education you learned to read everything in front of you. AS In how many times does one have to say I CAN NOT TYPE SO GET THE F^&* OVER YOURSELF.
I can spell not type. Or do you have something more to say on the subject? I will have you know that BOTH of my ds' are in college, well, wait, no allow me to rephrase that one is the other is not at the moment his choice. The one who is has a 4.gpa no remedial classes at a big ten school, he is a freshman finishing his first year. My oldest for reasons I do not have to go into is not currently attending BUT when he was finishing his soph yr with a GPA of 3.85. no remedial classes either. So far my homeschooling of my kids is 100% prepped for school can you say the same of your school district of those who attend college? Or do some need remedial classes?
Just what are you attempting to get to that I am missing? If so spit it out. If not back off and lay off.

IdahoRider
Apr. 8, 2012, 11:33 AM
BTDT, I hear your frustration loud and clear. But remember, it could be worse. You could be teaching here in Idaho.

As a newbie teacher myself, with just a few more months of student teaching to go, the political, economical and social mess I am willfully walking into makes me want to cry.

I spent weeks preparing for a "Math Family Fun Night" at my elementary school. Since the end of February, each grade block in my school has planned and implemented a Family Fun Night. K-1 went first. Second grade went next and last week was our turn in 3rd grade. Three classes, 79 students in total. 16 families showed up.

I sent a survey home with my students, asking about literacy in the home and feedback on different ways the school could support those efforts. The responses I got tended towards the offended, since it is none of my business if they have books in the home or how many times they visit the public library. Okay, I shift my focus and decide to send out a weekly reading comprehension sheet, highlighting a comprehension strategy, and including tips on how to use that strategy and offering book recommendations that pair well with that strategy. I had a parent complaint that I was assigning parental homework.

This is definitely not easy work. It really does feel like a minefield on some days.
Sheilah

MsM
Apr. 8, 2012, 11:50 AM
Calvincrowe -Yes!

I've been teaching for over twenty years, mostly in a suburban school. Things have changed and many are not for the better. I am looking forward to retirement ASAP.

In 2009, I was having a difficult year. I was 3 years out from my cancer diagnosis and helping take care of my mom, who was dying of cancer, and my Alzheimer dad (who both lived 60 miles away). I was concerned because I was using more family leave time than I ever had and so told my Assistant Principal of my situation. On the last Friday of the school year I wa called to the Principal's office. She told me I was being moved next year to a grade level I had never taught to work with a teacher I had filed formal complaints against. I told her I would have no time to prepare (we do not have textbooks -we are to create our own materials following the curriculum) and that I didnt feel I should work with this other teacher. Didn't matter. The next day I had to call 911 for my mom who never came home and I spent the summer trying to help Alzheimer dad live alone for the first time in his life (another long story). I did my best the next year, but it wasnt great. The reason for the reassignment? Parents didnt like the teacher I replaced. That teacher was merely moved to my former position. If Important Parents complain, the Administration will make moves that are not educationally sound just to look better in their eyes.

We spend a lot of time now doing paperwork to document teaching practices and to apply for awards to make the District look good. If I "give" a student a D or F I have to meet with the Administrator to justify it.
I give less homework because there is less support for it. I felt like I was penalizing the kids with the crummy parents and rewarding those whose parents do their work for them. So we can't cover as much curriculum.

Now the State is trying to enact laws that mean that teachers would be evaluated on the NCLB tests of their students as well as principal, parent, and student evaluations. Get a low ranking and your certification would be demoted or even revoked. And your pay scale would be linked to the evaluation. To top it off, teachers would no longer be required to earn Masters degrees! I don't know who they think will want to join the profession under these conditions, especially in low-income areas where they are needed most. Get a difficult group of students or upset Principal or parents and you can lose pay or even be kicked out of the profession!
BTW, tenure is really misunderstood. It is simply a matter of showing just cause and in some circumstances efforts to help before firing a teacher. I repaced a teacher who was fired and I know of two others who lost tenure. It is too cumbersome and my union is okay with streamlining that. But it is mostly typical bureocratic(sp?) inertia (or being friends with the right people) that keeps ineffective teachers employed. At my school they haven fired the janitor who hasnt really cleaned for years!

TheHorseProblem
Apr. 8, 2012, 12:08 PM
The ONLY rules for journal writing is AT LEAST 20 minutes of writing NONSTOP. The first day of class we will do this in class, and everyone should be able to get to 250 words. The first quarter I expect a minimum of 250 words, about one page. Each quarter it will go up 50 words and 1/2 page. If they do this as directed, they will easily be able to get much more written and improve their writing in so many ways.



Sorry I was on sabattical yesterday!:lol:

YOu inspire me, BTDT! this year I started having the kids use one of the grammar/usage/mechanics skills in their journal. So write about anything you want but use a semi-colon and parallel structure. Or write a conversation using quotation marks and include a quote within a quote. I check it before they hand it in so that they have to do it over until they do it right.

Regarding your OP, that is why the blanket hatred of teacher's unions is so misguided. The union had ZERO to do with why that semen on a cookie creep stayed on his job. In every case I have heard about, it was the administrator's call to stop the investigation, or the principal telling parents their complaints were unfounded.

You are going to see more and more cheating on tests until the next wave comes along, or until Bill Gates does the right thing and puts his money behind a rational system of teacher evaluation that is not based on test scores.

The sad fact is that the movement towards changing the rules on evaluations and tenure comes at the same time as budget cuts. This means that the reasonable system of observing teachers over time will lose out to the unreliable but cheap method of evaluation based on test scores because schools do one have the personnel to do all those observations. We are down to two administrators from five two years ago.

All of this is being pushed by Race to the Top without evidence that it works.

IdahoRider
Apr. 8, 2012, 12:14 PM
I don't know who they think will want to join the profession under these conditions
Here in Idaho we actually have elected officials publicly stating that the public education system should be gutted, with a shift to completely private schools who get no public dollars. Teachers can get by as nothing more than test proctors, which requires no specialized training.

Our Superintendent of Public Education is not an educator, and only got a B.A. from an on-line diploma mill (in weights and measures) in 2002. He spent a couple of years working in the Bush-era Department Of Education and then came back to Idaho in time to be elected in 2006.

He has said that education shouldn't be an attractive career, because then only lazy people and those wanting good money will become teachers.
Sheilah

TheJenners
Apr. 8, 2012, 12:58 PM
It takes you 20 minutes to read 6 pages? Don't think so.

Yes think so. I work with teenagers 14-21, and most of them, including the ones who have already graduated, can't read. As in, ILLITERATE! Not, doesn't like to read, but doesn't know the meaning of simple words like "solitary," "mirth," etc and can't read/write. I suggested to one he download Firefox just so his FB posts would get edited and not give me a brain bleed.

LauraKY
Apr. 8, 2012, 01:20 PM
I hope in your home schooling you make sure to cover the definition of irony...

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Ghazzu
Apr. 8, 2012, 01:22 PM
Ghazzu
I hope in your education you learned to read everything in front of you. AS In how many times does one have to say I CAN NOT TYPE SO GET THE F^&* OVER YOURSELF.
I can spell not type.

I find this assertion intriguing. Could you elucidate?
Because there are any number of misspellings in your posts which are not at all obvious typos, in that the letters which appear are not located adjacent to the ones which should appear.

Also, even if you can't type, it would be nice if you occasionally hit the enter key to break up your paragraphs.






Or do you have something more to say on the subject?

No; that's all.

LauraKY
Apr. 8, 2012, 01:27 PM
We don't value our teachers, we don't pay our teachers well, we don't select our potential teachers from the top of their class, they come from the bottom 1/3.

We need to use Finland as our model.
http://thinkprogress.org/yglesias/2011/05/14/200978/teacher-quality-in-finland/
and
http://thinkprogress.org/yglesias/2010/09/24/198618/improving-teacher-quality-by-paying-teachers-more/
and
http://www.ncee.org/programs-affiliates/center-on-international-education-benchmarking/top-performing-countries/finland-overview/finland-teacher-and-principal-quality/
I actually think Bill Gates is doing more to harm education than good.

Ghazzu
Apr. 8, 2012, 01:32 PM
Actually, I lied.
I do have something more to say--there are a *lot* of students in college who have pretty pathetic spelling and math skills , yet are not in remedial classes and have decent GPA's.

I'm not saying that is at all the case with your children, but it is, alas, increasingly common.

Why? Because the phenomenon of angry parents who blame the instructor flows uphill. Parents call the college and insist that their child, who is "very smart", could not possibly have gotten the grades they did.

Faculty are barraged with admonitions from the administration regarding "student success" and retention rates.

Student evaluations drive many decisions on whether or not the adjunct professors, who are an increasingly large percentage of those teaching at the college level, are rehired.
It goes without saying that many students who do poorly blame the professor and use the evaluation to "get even".

In many cases, the faculty response is to decrease expectations. Grades go up, retention and graduation rates go up, parents and students are happy, the administration is pleased, and the faculty take to drinking...

Alagirl
Apr. 8, 2012, 01:33 PM
Here in Idaho we actually have elected officials publicly stating that the public education system should be gutted, with a shift to completely private schools who get no public dollars. Teachers can get by as nothing more than test proctors, which requires no specialized training.

Our Superintendent of Public Education is not an educator, and only got a B.A. from an on-line diploma mill (in weights and measures) in 2002. He spent a couple of years working in the Bush-era Department Of Education and then came back to Idaho in time to be elected in 2006.

He has said that education shouldn't be an attractive career, because then only lazy people and those wanting good money will become teachers.
Sheilah


...........
..............................
.................................................. .


At a loss for words...

MsM
Apr. 8, 2012, 01:35 PM
Sadly, my background is what they claim to want.

3.6 GPA undergrad with a science major. 4.0 GPA Masters in Education. Experience in private and public sector before getting that Masters. In top 2% on National Teachers Exam. And now 20 years of experience.

And I am feeling driven out. Two years and eight weeks until retirement.

bumknees
Apr. 8, 2012, 01:42 PM
I admit I had to look up the word elucidate, it is one I had never seen or heard before or at least to the best of my knowlege I have not.

Intresting to use a 5$ word when a .03$ one would have done.

I attempt to catch the ''wayward'' letters such as the ''s's'' that appear sometimes which is something new for me in the last 6 or so months. I do not know why though I have an idea which I will have to ask my dr on friday about.

It could well be that I can not feel that particular finger very well sometimes it is not constant and maybe the finger hits the key with out my knowing it. just guessing and with other problems I do not catch the s attached to the word. Again just guessing.

If I were to stop this post right now it would probably take me another 10 minutes in editing to try to get all of my typos... and that is going word for word letter by letter... line by line.. I would pefer not going into why the typos still manage to get through out in public if you wish to know ask me through PM and I would be glad to answer. But please lay off... I may not be perfect but I am not stupid nor uneducated...I may not have a degree above a 4yr as many do but please do not assume I am illerate.

TheHorseProblem
Apr. 8, 2012, 01:45 PM
Sadly, my background is what they claim to want.

3.6 GPA undergrad with a science major. 4.0 GPA Masters in Education. Experience in private and public sector before getting that Masters. In top 2% on National Teachers Exam. And now 20 years of experience.

And I am feeling driven out. Two years and eight weeks until retirement.

In five years, there will be no professional teachers, only TFA types with lots of free time to work the 10+ hours that the charter schools dictate looking to pad their resume.

After all, anyone can teach.:no:

LauraKY
Apr. 8, 2012, 01:46 PM
bumknees, it's not just the misspellings. It's the lack of punctuation, the lack of paragraphs, the run on sentences, etc. If you don't have spell check (for whatever reason), why don't you proof read and fix the errors.

What we write is a reflection of who we are. Do you like the image you're projecting?

Ghazzu
Apr. 8, 2012, 01:59 PM
Intresting to use a 5$ word when a .03$ one would have done.



I don't consider it a $5 word.
I would consider replacing it with something simpler to be patronizing, actually.

bumknees
Apr. 8, 2012, 02:17 PM
Actually, I lied.
I do have something more to say--there are a *lot* of students in college who have pretty pathetic spelling and math skills , yet are not in remedial classes and have decent GPA's.

I'm not saying that is at all the case with your children, but it is, alas, increasingly common.

Why? Because the phenomenon of angry parents who blame the instructor flows uphill. Parents call the college and insist that their child, who is "very smart", could not possibly have gotten the grades they did.

Faculty are barraged with admonitions from the administration regarding "student success" and retention rates.

Student evaluations drive many decisions on whether or not the adjunct professors, who are an increasingly large percentage of those teaching at the college level, are rehired.
It goes without saying that many students who do poorly blame the professor and use the evaluation to "get even".

In many cases, the faculty response is to decrease expectations. Grades go up, retention and graduation rates go up, parents and students are happy, the administration is pleased, and the faculty take to drinking...

My father was a college professor well no wait honestly Im not sure what his title was. Perhaps you can assist me in getting it correct after all these years. He worked for The Ohio State University. He was Faculty. He taught classes in govt. pecrument, and contracting through a contractor. He traveled weekely teaching these classes in one week. I was brought up to call him a ''traveling professor for The Ohio State University.

But anyway before all that..

The only reason I would have to call and ASK if the grade might be incorrect is IF my kid comes to me and says something lke "Mom I was sure I had passed/gotten a better grade than this " and here are my papers and past exams/mid term exams. as proof to why I thought that." And if what I see and what he is telling me falls with in the grading guidelines for a better grade as printd ou on the sylibus then I might give a call down and ask not bitch at but ask if my son had really screwed up on the final and that is why the grde he recieved. If he did not screw the final is there another reason that ds did not inform me bout such as class participation etc. In other words I give the benifit of the doubt to the professor first not my kid.

I do not belive in harrassing those who are teaching my children no matter what level they are teaching them. If my kids do not deserve the grades they are getting then WHY are they recieving them and I want to konw the logic behind it. assuming the grades are higher than they should be.

I do however believe that if someone I dont care on what lever that someone is kindergarden to grad school,doctorate what ever if they are being paid to teach a person then they had better be doing their best to get the subjet matter across to their students and be honest in their grading. Why not be honest in their grading that is wht I do not understand.

If it were me or even my kids and I or my kids were dumb as bricks and was just being allowed ot go through school college and on and on what is that really doing I am not learning anything other than peple can take my $$ and I am no smarter or learnered(sp) than I was in kindergrden so why did I spend all the $$ I did.. sorry challenge me. Why are pepple scared to challenge others to get results and it is not just educators on any level it is anyone who ''teaches'' others to do something.

If decreased expecations are becomming the norm I do not understand how we got in this mess how did we decide that less is just as good as I do not know what ot call it it is not more is it what used to be ?

Hw do we and it can not just be on those who educate it has to come from both sides actually all three those who educate, those who are recieving the education , the parents/those paying for teh education... how do we change the expectations? To get the education levels back up/to where they should be?

And Yes I am honestly asking I honestly would like to know because I hope to one day have grandchildren and I dont want my ds or dil to feel the need to pull them out of school to homeschool them also.. there are good teachers out there let them teach.

LauraKY
Apr. 8, 2012, 02:22 PM
bumknees...i before e except after c.

HighFlyinBey++
Apr. 8, 2012, 02:32 PM
I would pefer not going into why the typos still manage to get through out in public if you wish to know ask me through PM and I would be glad to answer. But please lay off... I may not be perfect but I am not stupid nor uneducated...I may not have a degree above a 4yr as many do but please do not assume I am illerate.

Bumknees, any physical condition that causes an issue like yours is nothing to be ashamed of. GoesLikeStink had issues because of her TBI, remember? Once we knew that, we understood why she couldn't "just use spell check" to fix her problems. Many posters would even go to bat for her when newbies criticized.

Just some food for thought.

bumknees
Apr. 8, 2012, 02:58 PM
Bumknees, any physical condition that causes an issue like yours is nothing to be ashamed of. GoesLikeStink had issues because of her TBI, remember? Once we knew that, we understood why she couldn't "just use spell check" to fix her problems. Many posters would even go to bat for her when newbies criticized.

Just some food for thought.


Im am not ashamed I do not wish pity kwim...
I have worked hard to try to do my best to over come my problems and I am still working hard to complete the task. Some I know will never go away and it is something I will have to live with. Most of which occured after my education ended.

Some before I went back for fun not necessarly to obtain another degree.

I type how I think. I do not think with punctuation. My fingers do not funtions properly when I try to type.

Just to list some:
I have had my head cut open with part of my brain removed due to damage done by a leaking artery. Sometimes that effects my vision sometimes not.

My drs think that due to that surgery; sometimes my left hand cramps and hooks giving the appearance of a stroke but it is not. Just gives the appearance of one. hurts like a female dog but not a stroke.

I have not felt half of my left + right hands since Jan. including the fingers. The fingers come and go but the hands no they have been pretty numb since Jan. along with half of my face.
Which is why I am guess incase you all have not noticed my bad typing skills have gotten worse since the beginning of the year. I did not let my dr know until 2 weeks ago when the left side of my face began to tingle a bit.. So yeah...

I have dyslexia I have had it since I was a kid. It is so bad that when I am tired words fall off the sides of the page I am reading. So on computer screns you can imagine what it is like chasing letters and words around...

Those are the highlights...I made it through college 2x's with out any special treatment services they were offered but I chose not to take them..

I just dont want pity I have worked hard not to have pity over this stuff I have had ot learn to live with.. I even turned down the oppertunity to apply for SSI and disability when I had my head cut open because I still can do things ..
Maybe takes me a titch longer than someone who has not had this done to them but I still can. Maybe I can not work under certian types of lights but I can still work.. That is why I am very secretive about things because I still can and do not want pity..

Ghazzu
Apr. 8, 2012, 03:15 PM
Bumknees--first off, HFB is right--understanding why you type the way you do does not mean anyone is going to pity you.
It simply eliminates the explanation that you do it out of laziness.
Still, thanks for including the occasional line breaks--it does make your posts far easier to read.

Secondly, there's no way a college professor can discuss your child's grades with you without written permission from the child. (see FERPA for details.) Even if you're paying the bills.
And believe me, that just infuriates some parents more.

bumknees
Apr. 8, 2012, 03:21 PM
Bumknees--first off, HFB is right--understanding why you type the way you do does not mean anyone is going to pity you.
It simply eliminates the explanation that you do it out of laziness.
Still, thanks for including the occasional line breaks--it does make your posts far easier to read.

Secondly, there's no way a college professor can discuss your child's grades with you without written permission from the child. (see FERPA for details.) Even if you're paying the bills.
And believe me, that just infuriates some parents more.

I understand but when you try to keep things private so you're treated the same kwim... It is hard to let people in on secrets... lol that is from neck up imagine what the rest of my body is like. ;):lol:

I get written permission Or some times kid is standing there or just outside door. helps that we live about 5 miles from campus...

Tapperjockey
Apr. 8, 2012, 03:22 PM
It seems to me that there is a trend where parents get involved when there are problems with the school, particularly with the child's grades, and not before. If they were more involved through the whole process, a lot of issues could be alleviated.

BuddyRoo
Apr. 8, 2012, 03:28 PM
While I work in technology, my background and primary degree is in Biology and I tutor kids at Michigan State University in premed/prevet/nursing courses like physiology, pathophys, anatomy, nursing pharm, etc.

I've been doing this for several years, quite successfully. I love teaching and I love biology so it's been very fun for me. But I have been somewhat surprised by how much of my tutoring time is about trying to teach very basic things rather than explaining complex concepts.

It was not until I met my now husband and became involved with his kids and their academics that I truly made the correlation between the issues my college kids were having and the general educational system here.

My oldest stepdaughter (8th grade) did not know what a complete sentence meant until I sat down with her one evening this fall. They are allowed to even use chat/text speak in their papers.

My youngest stepdaughter (6th grade) has a teacher (both kids had her actually) whose language arts projects require more web surfing than reading or writing. They have to look up pictures and videos that support their idea of the theme of a book. It's very distracting and it's a bit scary as their searches can sometimes be things like "picture of older men with young boy".

Further, projects are graded so...lightly? in my mind that they are simply unprepared. Last year, in 7th grade, our oldest had a poster board for science where instead of the word "test" it said "testes". I showed her. Teacher didn't care. She got an A.

They think they are A or B students when really, IMHO, they should be getting C's or D's on their work. But they've got a false sense of accomplishment and while they're bright, they aren't learning many of the skills that I now see are the same lacking skills for my college aged kids.

I guess I'm on a tangent here a bit.

But I've gotten to the point where I don't care what the rubric says, I don't care how the teacher grades (ie: doesn't count spelling), I am sitting down with the kids and making sure they are learning some things so that have an actual shot later in life of being successful.

HighFlyinBey++
Apr. 8, 2012, 03:31 PM
Pity you? Oh hell no! Overcoming obstacles like that is something to celebrate, not pity!

My dad lost the use of both his lower arms after he developed compression syndrome after a double bypass last July. His left hand was left with some feeling and movement. The fingers are in a "lobster claw-like" position. He will have the first surgery to rebuild that arm with muscle & tendon from his leg on Tuesday. He won't know if it worked for at least 6 months.

His right arm? He only had enough left to twitch his pointer finger. The arm was constantly palm-up since he had no way to turn it over. He had it amputated last month in preparation for a prosthetic, which the insurance company is dinking around deciding if he "needs" it. Seriously.

He has trouble feeding himself. He needs my mom's help in the bathroom & getting dressed, but the things he's figured out he CAN do are amazing. He built a frame to hold his video camera so he can still record my nephew's basketball game. HIMSELF. He had my sister pick out the proper fasteners for him, but he bent the pipe and tightened it HIMSELF. Everyone is in awe of him. His attitude is positive and he just keeps working toward "better."

Is it sad that he'll never do some of the things he loved again? Yes, of course. But pity? No way!

The same goes for you, "young" lady. You're TRYING to overcome your problems. You're not sitting around moping and blaming. There's nothing TO pity!

SarahandSam
Apr. 8, 2012, 03:36 PM
Agree completely... I am dreading going back next week, because I have seven seniors currently in serious danger of failing English 12 and not graduating, because they haven't done the work. And the second of two whopping 3-5 page papers they have to write this year is due Monday, and if they don't do it, they will fail this marking period too. And we have to have 100% graduation this year, because of our charter renewal. I want my students to succeed, and I don't want them to fail, but when a kid has blatantly refused to do any assignments all year long because "it's too much work" and it comes down to rewarding his laziness with a 65%, or losing my job, I want to throw up. There is no concept of maybe, just maybe, that failing grade is because the kid earned it. There's always something that the teacher hasn't done. We have to add 5 days onto our school year next year (no increased teacher pay), because another school with higher scores than us has 5 more teaching days, so that must be the reason. Not the smaller class sizes or the fact that they grow their own kids (i.e. are K-12 instead of 9-12) or the better teacher morale there. It's because 5 more days with overcrowded classes in August heat is clearly going to make a difference.

And the parents... argh. I want to teach in a school of orphans. "Please excuse Andy Jr. from having to do his paper, he had his wisdom teeth out three weeks ago." WTF?

BuddyRoo
Apr. 8, 2012, 03:40 PM
I wonder too if the prevalence of kids in multiple households makes this issue worse.

My husband has 50/50 custody of his kids. The kids are often tardy to school when they're with Mom and/or don't have homework done or checked because hey--going to the midnight showing of Twilight is more important. We're trying to create good habits for them and getting them to be responsible for themselves, but it sometimes feels like an uphill battle when academics don't have the same focus in the other home.

I can recall more than one occasion of learning that Mom had written the kids a note for school to be excused regarding homework for a "family issue" when that issues was dinner and a movie.

Alagirl
Apr. 8, 2012, 03:45 PM
I wonder too if the prevalence of kids in multiple households makes this issue worse.

My husband has 50/50 custody of his kids. The kids are often tardy to school when they're with Mom and/or don't have homework done or checked because hey--going to the midnight showing of Twilight is more important. We're trying to create good habits for them and getting them to be responsible for themselves, but it sometimes feels like an uphill battle when academics don't have the same focus in the other home.

I can recall more than one occasion of learning that Mom had written the kids a note for school to be excused regarding homework for a "family issue" when that issues was dinner and a movie.


Considering how many parents these days rather aim for friendship with the spawns instead of a parental position, as well as using the kid and bribing it to garner affection, to be the favorite parent, I do think you are not far off the mark.

bumknees
Apr. 8, 2012, 03:53 PM
Where I live if a parent attempts to get involved in a good way before grades become a problme they ''are the problem'' and I have known parents to get banned from school property and schools have gone as far as to get restraining orders against parents who insit that something happen. AKA teach my child...

Now if a parent becomes involved AFTER the grades show there is a problem then no problem as far as the school is concerned.

sounds backasswards to me.. I would think the school would want parental involvement in the good way before things went south.

With my older ds before I removed him from school the teacher and I sat down and talked what I expected from my son. ( rememer they had an unsigned IEP on him so he was in the special ed class) I would bring in spelling words that were words that the average what ever grade leve he was in should know by the end of that year words such as gerrimander and the like. The teacher used them I also supplied the definations of the words.
I also having been able o get my own copy of the books they were using in that school for that grade level for the college track kids from a used text books store I was able to set down his lessons that she would do and grade on a straight scale no bell curve IF he failed he failed and spelling was to count. the other kids in the class of his grade level were expected to do the same.
For the first time in years the kids in the special ed class were actually learning. Everything was fine until they moved my kid out of that class because my kid was learning, and the science teacher looked me in the eye and said speling did not count followed shortly by the math teacher said the thing about math...
I would have loved for my kids to stayed in public school.. I could have spent that time riding or just relaxing.

What do ou do when pressured by the school to pass kids who refuse to do the home work because something like what SandS are going thorugh. You need your job but really to be threatened with our job if you do your job?

I respect those who teach but geesh you couldnt pay me enough to do your job...

Beentheredonethat
Apr. 8, 2012, 04:05 PM
Well, I've been sleeping and can't address everyone, or figure out how to look back.

In response to reading 6 pages in 20 minutes. Every kid at grade level with passing grades should be able to do that. That's the issue. I get kids with not only passing, but good grades, but when I get them, everything demonstrates that they can't read. We read an excerpt from Malcolm X in our lit book that talks about how he went into prison functionally illiterate--he could read some words, but didn't know so many of them, he might as well have been reading it upside down. He was in an amazing prison where people wanted to be educated, and he didn't know what to do, so he started copying the dictionary. He ended up being an amazing reader and a very intelligent speaker. I always tell the kids we can do the Malcolm X if we want. The hardest possible way to learn to read is copy the dictionary, I think, but it is a way. Magically hoping that staring at it will make it easy and it will suddenly pop into your head doesn't.

The issue I and my friend are having is because other teachers below us are not demanding basics. We're in middle school, mostly 7th, so at most they've had one year of grades, and if they got the teacher that doesn't actually grade, but passes everyone on, we're screwed. In elementary here they don't give grades. They give marks as to if they CAN do it. So, a kid who CAN write a paragraph with punctuation will get passed. But, in real life, it's what you produce, and the rate of kids who start failing when you grade on them actually producing that paragraph starts dropping dramatically. So, we get parents that say they "always" got good grades. No, they weren't graded. They were rated on if they CAN. Big difference.

I have a kid this year who cannot write his full first name. No kidding. He stops in the middle of writing it and forgets his last few letters. He doesn't do most work because he can't focus more than a minute at a time unless you're staring him down. He spends MOST of his class time playing with his pencil--I am not exaggerating. His family is so annoyed, and tell me he never has or does homework, and can't do anything. He got A's and B's last year with the "easy, fun" teacher. Luckily the family is behind me. I had the sisters in my class. They also had the "easy, fun" teachers in math and language--they told me they did no homework, flunked all of the tests, and never learned, but they both got good grades. Sigh.

So sad to see the people in here excited about getting into teaching last year who are now in it and ready to quit. I would hope I could say don't do it, but I can't. I don't know that the stress is worth it, and I don't think morally doing it without the integrity of being honest is something most people with a soul could live with. I told my kids a story about my life in relation to motivation. Most people aren't really motivated by love or interest as most think. I saw this in one of the horse magazines, and the research shows it's more like fear and guilt that motivate. It's true for me. I am motivated to keep fighting because I am fearful these kids will grow up to be my half-sister, a leech on society destroying everything my mom has. I am trying with all my soul to stop that.

xeroxchick
Apr. 8, 2012, 04:07 PM
Agree completely... I am dreading going back next week, because I have seven seniors currently in serious danger of failing English 12 and not graduating, because they haven't done the work. And the second of two whopping 3-5 page papers they have to write this year is due Monday, and if they don't do it, they will fail this marking period too. And we have to have 100% graduation this year, because of our charter renewal. I want my students to succeed, and I don't want them to fail, but when a kid has blatantly refused to do any assignments all year long because "it's too much work" and it comes down to rewarding his laziness with a 65%, or losing my job, I want to throw up. There is no concept of maybe, just maybe, that failing grade is because the kid earned it. There's always something that the teacher hasn't done. We have to add 5 days onto our school year next year (no increased teacher pay), because another school with higher scores than us has 5 more teaching days, so that must be the reason. Not the smaller class sizes or the fact that they grow their own kids (i.e. are K-12 instead of 9-12) or the better teacher morale there. It's because 5 more days with overcrowded classes in August heat is clearly going to make a difference.

And the parents... argh. I want to teach in a school of orphans. "Please excuse Andy Jr. from having to do his paper, he had his wisdom teeth out three weeks ago." WTF?

I see this ALL the time. Kids do nothing, never come in for help, loose work, don't turn it in at all. Then we as teachers are blamed because we are not motivating them. We are also encouraged not to base grades on summative assessment so that when they neglect to complete projects they do not fail. My school system has moved many seniors to Open Campus where they complete work on line. Pretty soon we won't need classrooms at all, oh wait, what will parents do for day care?

hitchinmygetalong
Apr. 8, 2012, 04:11 PM
I understand but when you try to keep things private so you're treated the same kwim... It is hard to let people in on secrets... lol that is from neck up imagine what the rest of my body is like. ;):lol:



What does "kwim" mean?

MsM
Apr. 8, 2012, 04:14 PM
KWIM = know what I mean

As a middle school teacher I have had to learn to speak text! :winkgrin:

Ghazzu
Apr. 8, 2012, 07:49 PM
I teach at the college level. I had a student unable to properly spell the word "horse" in one of my classes.
My initial reaction was to giggle, but I ended up crying.

How did this child get a high school diploma, and who told him that he was capable of college level work?

Trakehner
Apr. 8, 2012, 08:09 PM
[QUOTE=bumknees;6243031]I admit I had to look up the word elucidate, it is one I had never seen or heard before or at least to the best of my knowlege I have not. Intresting to use a 5$ word when a .03$ one would have done./QUOTE]

OMG! There's not much to say. I'm a product of private schools, great teachers, Jesuits and Carmelite nuns. When I went in the Army I learned to simplify my vocabulary since there were so many truly uneducated and fairly stupid people...they saw it as me trying to make them look stupid and me smart. I wasn't, but the truly uneducated dislike having to admit how truly stupid they are.

Here's a simple way to see it...If someone is on COTH do they say, "Horsie!" or Warmblood, mare/gelding etc...? Is it a $5 word to use the correct term? Unless you're truly ignorant, it's not. To the poorly educated with no vocabulary, everything is a $1 word. Bumknees has some cognitive/learning challenges...good for her for trying to transcend them...but, dumbing down vocabulary is no kindness and shows no respect.

Beentheredonethat
Apr. 8, 2012, 09:23 PM
Trakhener--I think you have the key to a good education--fear. I don't know about it, but everyone I know feared nuns. Nothing motivates better than fear of nuns.

Sort of good news. My friend has been authorized five whole hours of lawyer time by the (*&^&%^&%&^%^ useless union. I hope they use that to sue the school district for bullying and harassment and trying to blame a teacher for their screw up in trying to place kids in high math classes.

TheHorseProblem
Apr. 8, 2012, 09:29 PM
I teach at the college level. I had a student unable to properly spell the word "horse" in one of my classes.
My initial reaction was to giggle, but I ended up crying.

How did this child get a high school diploma, and who told him that he was capable of college level work?

It is considered a matter of equity that all students are pushed to complete college requirements. In fact, at some point, the college requirement and graduation requirements will be the same.

Students in my district have to flunk out before they can go learn a trade. All the voc ed classes are shut down as the teachers retire, so no auto shop, no metal shop, no business classes. The only classes left are computer classes, and even these are closing and the teachers who have taught at my school for 20+ years are being reassigned because of budget cuts.

So yeah, we are accused of the bigotry of low expectations if we say that some kids are not cut out for college and should be able to learn to be plumbers, electricians, day care workers, etc.

Our average class size for next year? 43.

Beentheredonethat
Apr. 8, 2012, 09:54 PM
Yeah, we really need to change the focus of school more like in England. All kids are not cut out for college, and should not be. We need vocational tracks in school. Some of the most promising job careers are in vocational studies, and those are good jobs with a good future.

I don't want to even know the class sizes for next year. We've got about $5 million that last three years and we're bare bones. We're looking at a $10 million cut this year. No library, no activities, crammed in classes.

Another fall out of NCLB--ALL kids should be proficient, even special ed, criminals, those in jail, whatever. It's an impossibility, and the results of this BS are just becoming frighteningly scary.

Wayside
Apr. 8, 2012, 10:22 PM
Secondly, there's no way a college professor can discuss your child's grades with you without written permission from the child. (see FERPA for details.) Even if you're paying the bills.
And believe me, that just infuriates some parents more.

Yes, yes it does. My mother is a college advisor, and she regularly gets phone calls from irate parents wanting information. Or worse, parents who are trying to change things like the courses their child is taking without the student's permission.

I'm sure there are also lots of good parents out there, but man, some of them are nuts.

DieBlaueReiterin
Apr. 9, 2012, 01:44 PM
PARENTS actually call COLLEGES about their kids???? are you kidding me???? i'm only 30 and i can't IMAGINE my or my friends' parents CALLING THE COLLEGE about something. how embarrassing!

UGH.

ok, now that that's off my chest, i want to address some points that have come up about education. i'm a teacher at an inner city turnaround charter school (ie, it was one of the worst in a pretty horrid district, so my charter took it over). i've worked in our public district, as well as in a rich suburban district 15 miles away, so i've seen a good cross section. it's really a shame-kids CAN'T fail, esp if they have an IEP. the parent can sue the school! vocational tracks are completely overlooked. students are passed grade to grade and get to me in 7th grade on a 1st grade reading level. and guess what...they're going to pass to 8th next year! it's really frightening to think about who is going to be leading this country in 30-40 years...actually, if we even still exist as the america as we know it i will be shocked...

Wayside
Apr. 9, 2012, 02:04 PM
PARENTS actually call COLLEGES about their kids???? are you kidding me???? i'm only 30 and i can't IMAGINE my or my friends' parents CALLING THE COLLEGE about something. how embarrassing!

Yep, not only do they call, but some of them even come to advising appointments with their kids :eek: Completely blows my mind. I can't imagine doing that to my son if he decides to go to college 10 years from now either!

Trakehner
Apr. 9, 2012, 02:27 PM
Ah, helicopter parents worrying about their 30 year old children. How weird is that? Scary too!

Parents need to stop paying little Jimmie's tuition, let him get a job and not be a 4th semester freshman and have him take something besides poly-sci or french lit because that's where the cute girls are and there's no labs required.

Of course, I know adults whose parents are still paying for their horse even though they're chronological adults....also scary!

I feel very sad for teachers and all the amazingly ignorant kids they have to try and teach. Behaviour problems with thugs who don't want to learn and who try and prevent others from learning.

Yep, fear is a good teacher with nuns and the Jesuits. I still remember a poem we had to memorize in 6th grade...you had to only recall 4 lines, so we all counted off to see what 4 lines we had to know...of course, "The Penguin", once a kid missed his lines made the next person recite those missed lines...OMG! Now that was stress and fear...the result, years later I recall:

Up from the gardens rich with corn,
Clear in the cool September morn;
The clustered spires of Frederick stand,
Green walled by the hills of Maryland.

(it's Barbara Fritchie...and fear locked it in my little brain).

No fear in kids today...just worries of how the darling's psyche will be massaged and their egos not stressed. A good Jesuit could clear that right up.

ReSomething
Apr. 9, 2012, 02:41 PM
I had a Western Civ prof in Junior College who was a product of the Jesuits. If you could get past his accent and monotone delivery the information he was imparting on the Spanish monarchy ca 1492 through 1603 and that period of time in the European states plus the Americas was truly impressive. I think only five of us made it to the final exam and I know I was always irked that I didn't understand that period in history as much as I could have.

Now, my opinion is that as long as the idea is that everybody is going on to college we are going to be stuck with this grade inflation thing. Not for admissions purposes so much as to determine who gets the good scholarship. They'll admit darn near anybody anymore, the willingness of folk to get a loan has seen to that, but a scholarship committee is looking to get the most bang for their buck - they want the quantifiable achievements such as grades, projects, voluntarism. It's too bad that some stuff is "administratively assisted" by parents - calling a college guidance counselor? Really?

RedMare01
Apr. 9, 2012, 02:44 PM
Well, I don't even have kids (yet, hopefully in the future), but I just wanted to say thanks to all the teachers out there who truly care. It sucks that your job is so tough.

I'm the product of a fantastic public education from Kindergarten through grad school, and I hope my children will be able to say the same. I knew when I was in school that I was lucky to go to the schools I did (and have the teachers I had), but reading this is just...:eek:. I had no idea it was that awful in some places. And I graduated HS in '03, so not eras ago here.

Anyway, thanks and, uh, good thoughts to maintain your sanity. You are appreciated (by anyone with half a brain and basic reasoning skills..:(). :)

bumknees
Apr. 9, 2012, 03:15 PM
I admit I had to look up the word elucidate, it is one I had never seen or heard before or at least to the best of my knowlege I have not.quote]
[quote=Trakehner;6243910
OMG! There's not much to say. I'm a product of private schools, great teachers, Jesuits and Carmelite nuns. When I went in the Army I learned to simplify my vocabulary since there were so many truly uneducated and fairly stupid people...they saw it as me trying to make them look stupid and me smart. I wasn't, but the truly uneducated dislike having to admit how truly stupid they are.

Here's a simple way to see it...If someone is on COTH do they say, "Horsie!" or Warmblood, mare/gelding etc...? Is it a $5 word to use the correct term? Unless you're truly ignorant, it's not. To the poorly educated with no vocabulary, everything is a $1 word. Bumknees has some cognitive/learning challenges...good for her for trying to transcend them...but, dumbing down vocabulary is no kindness and shows no respect.

Mmm I think that maybe that because I had not heard a word before that patr of this post may have touched on an insult...

I think it is a greater insult to myself and those I am trying to talk with to pretend I know what a word is even if I have to go and look it up that admit tht I have never heard or read it before to the best of my knowlege.

Not everyone had the benifit of a private education from the Jesuits and Carmelite nuns. Heck some of us were not even lucky enough to stay in the same state for our education.

I guess I was luckier than some I got to stay in the same country and did not have to learn a new language.


I did learn the term lucid just not elucidate. So I even at my age continue to learn is tht wrong? I was taught that it is never wrong to continue to learn something new and concider it a good day if you do.
Maybe I was taught incorrect.

I dont know if you were trying to touch on insuliting but it sure felt like a kick in the stomach... With a pat on the back at the end...

Calvincrowe
Apr. 9, 2012, 05:01 PM
Bumknees--I realize you "can't type"...though you should be able to spell check, but I realize you aren't going to even try. I have a question for you: do your kids turn in written/typed work similar to what you are producing here? I ask, because you seem to feel what you do is okay. If I received your posts here as an assignment in my 8th grade English class, it would not be acceptable as is. It would require editing before being turned in. I guess, it is ironic that on a thread about education, you can't be bothered to look over your post before hitting "reply". Sorry--I feel that when putting one's written thoughts out for all to peruse, they should be your best effort.

HighFlyinBey++
Apr. 9, 2012, 05:23 PM
Bumknees--I realize you "can't type"

Calvincrowe, Bumknees explained some of her physical issues back in post #50. It is a bit more than "poor" typing skills.

JanM
Apr. 9, 2012, 05:54 PM
DBR-Helicopter Parents not only call college about their kids stuff, but some actually call future employers about salaries, job duties, and how hard the little darling will have to work, and when they'll be promoted.

A few years ago "O" magazine (Oprah) had a mind-blowing article about helicopter parents (she was wearing a yellow sweater on the cover if that helps to find it), and it was disgusting. People who never let their kids grow up are idiots, and aren't doing any favors for their kids. It's ugly to watch a 50 year old have to find out how to live as an independent adult, and some never will be able to.

bumknees
Apr. 9, 2012, 05:56 PM
Bumknees--I realize you "can't type"...though you should be able to spell check, but I realize you aren't going to even try. I have a question for you: do your kids turn in written/typed work similar to what you are producing here? I ask, because you seem to feel what you do is okay. If I received your posts here as an assignment in my 8th grade English class, it would not be acceptable as is. It would require editing before being turned in. I guess, it is ironic that on a thread about education, you can't be bothered to look over your post before hitting "reply". Sorry--I feel that when putting one's written thoughts out for all to peruse, they should be your best effort.

My computers spell check is on the fritz I guess one can say. I have no idea what occured to it when my own personal computer went down for several months. I have attempted to reinstall it several times. Or rather the program that has it in it. read this for I will not repeat it again. IT WILL NOT REINSTALL. think that is simple enough english for YOU TO UNSERSTAND?

IF you had read what I wrote in reguards to my editing of my posts you may have actualy read how long it takes me to edit my posts BEFORE I hit send. BUT I guess as an 8th grade teacher you dont HAVE to read every word huh. I GUESS it is ok for you to just guess it is ok in my eyes that it is ok.

I can promise you this however IF you were MY 8th grade teacher and had not bothered to read my previous post on this very subject despite my father being my not favorite person on face of the earth NOW, he probably would have demanded you no longer have your job as you clearly have chosen that you do not have to read what certian students write. Even if the information is given that may enlighten you. And he would win on that account. I saw him do that on lesser offence.

I can promise you this as well If you had been one of my childrens teachers you would loose your job as you clearly have no use for those you feel are not worthy of your time.

FYI this post alone will take me about 20 minutes to edit line by line word by word. If that is not good enough for you then you can kindly kiss my ass. Followed by have the following done to your body and see how well you type and do anything you do well now.

Have your head cut open,Have traditional scapleused in your brain when every other good hospital is using a gamma or laser scalple. Have a piece of your right temporal lobe removed and the piece removed measure the aprox size of a shooter marble.

Have the hand you write with decide to cramp on you for no apparent reason randomly and when it cramps hook in a ''stroke'' hook position though you are not having a stroke and have your hand remain there for anywhere from 1 minute to 5. While you are typing and while your hand is there have your other hand take up the slack on the typing. It is called Dystonia. It may or may not be related to that surgical site.

Have your oppsite hand have what in the past was called ''burning man syndrom'(sp) what is now called "Perpherial Nuerophthy to the point to wher you can not even hold onto a piece of paper with out dropping it.

Have what I think have been very small strokes since Jan and not feel the entire right side of your face Or your lips or half your hands which on occasion include your fingers. I only think becuse I did not inform my neurologist until week before last because of my history of going for a normal apt and ending up in the frikken hospital for weeks. I see her on Friday If I can get there.

HAVE dx'd 2days before thanksgiving an anyuserum at the base of your brain outside of it and the covering but still there. AND where they did thta surgery mentioned above the surgical site is pulling apart the artry is thining.

And that is just the shoulders up and not the 18 pills I am on a day..I would assume the broken foot doesnt have any effect on my typing. But the 2400mg of neuriton a day might just have some effect. As well as the 3mg day of the agrlyn, along with the 100mg of topomax(sp) I can assme the 3mg of estrodial doesnt...

I would be more than happy to trade you any day of the week. Until you walk a day in my shoes do not tell me what I can and can not do. Be glad I take the 20 or so minutes i take to edit my posts to TRY to find what I do find. Imagine what they would look like If I did not? Walk on a thing that has a million nails that have been heated, put your hands on it as well not heated enough to burn just feel like it will if it doenst stop... and write long enough to where your hand always cramps...

My kids do spell and type better than I do but they had to earn the ''right'' to use a computer for their school work. they had to do their math properly with out a calculator. They had to write in both print and cursive before they could use the computer to write their papers. As I said they carry high GPA's with out remedial classes at a big 10 school.

but then again IF you had read anything before you would have known that also.

Like I said Ill trade you any day of hte week how about the next time they want to do an angiogram and stick a needle into your foot... And run a cathater up the inside of your body to take a looksie around your brain.... Better you than me any day of the week had one already in the last 365 days... And no they can not do an MRA it has to be traditional one...

Or better still if they want to cut my head open then Ill trade you that day... again better you than me again..

Aggie4Bar
Apr. 9, 2012, 08:39 PM
OP - You touched on the reasons my DH and I pulled our kids out of the public school and also why my neighbors, both public school teachers, are desperately seeking alternate employment.

We didn't intervene too much when my stepdaughter was in 4th grade. The lack of challenge in the curriculum was somewhat alarming, but we went with it. She had two excellent teachers in 5th grade, which is also when my stepson started kindergarten. DH and I had conferences with the kinder teacher and the reading coordinator because there was no phonics whatsoever. Turns out, that's taboo now. But we went with it and did some tutoring at home.

6th and 1st grade. OMGiH!

SD's language arts teacher distributed a take-home exam with errors in every question. I marked it up, scanned the edited version, and emailed it back to the teacher, who responded, "Oops! Didn't have time to proofread." REALLY?!?!? The person who is supposed to set the example and raise the bar for these kiddos can't write a basic sentence? Joy of joys. I won't get into the problems with the math teacher. There was a very long line of parents and other faculty screaming about her, but bad teachers apparently can't get fired. SD's other teachers were good, if not a tad too laid back. It's so frustrating trying to get a kid to take pride in her work and be prompt when she could turn in an error-filled assignment over a week late and still get an A.

Meanwhile, my stepson brought home vast quantities of gibberish that the school called creative spelling. The reading curriculum was based on whole-word reading, and they did not correct spelling for fear that it would discourage children from writing. The result of this new and improved method was that he wasn't learning to read. His 1st grade teacher, not a fan of the curriculum, told us point blank that it didn't work well, wasn't working for him, and warned us that he'd struggle. She was ecstatic when she found out which school we planned to send him to and also that we were holding him back to repeat 1st in a phonics-based curriculum.

This year is a whole new ball game. SD's 7th grade teachers are under no pressure to hand out undeserved grades or secure their contracts with standardized test scores. If HW is late, it's a discipline slip. No excuses. SD had to get a few slips and clean the gym during lunch hour once before dropping the special snowflake persona. I don't have to fuss at her to take pride in her work or fix mistakes anymore because she knows a subpar effort will be handed right back to her as "incomplete". Both kids love the school though. SS is reading and spelling correctly, and his enthusiasm has not been negatively affected by having his papers corrected (in red ink, too! :eek: ;)). Our only regrets are not switching sooner.

Calvincrowe
Apr. 9, 2012, 11:01 PM
On the contrary, Bumknees, I've read every single word you wrote. Regardless of your disability, you come across as someone who has below-standard writing skills. Period. Bless your heart to keeping at it, but when you post publicly about education and how poorly you feel your children's teachers in such a manner, others are going to judge you, sorry.

I take extreme offense that you would judge me and my ability as a teacher based on my suggestion you edit what you write. How dare you! You don't know me AT ALL. I don't know you, either, but I certainly haven't disparaged your ability to parent, work, learn.

I am currently sitting here taking a break from editing my student's 8th Grade Research Project papers--yup, EVERY SINGLE DAMN ONE OF THEM, from the Hispanic student who barely grasps his new language, to the Special Education young lady who has a 3rd grade intellect, right on to my many average students who have written some pretty craptacular papers. I take the time to read every word, and help them correct their mistakes.

My God! Your crack about "making me lose my job" really pisses me off! So, if you got a lousy diagnosis from the doctor, would you demand his job too? How about the snarky store clerk? Call in a parent on that one too?

I have to get back to my job now. I've already put in 8 hours today, but have at least 2 hours more to go so these kids get there papers back by tomorrow. I hope you have a lovely evening, and that your pain in your hands improves.

Beentheredonethat
Apr. 9, 2012, 11:21 PM
OP - You touched on the reasons my DH and I pulled our kids out of the public school and also why my neighbors, both public school teachers, are desperately seeking alternate employment.

We didn't intervene too much when my stepdaughter was in 4th grade. The lack of challenge in the curriculum was somewhat alarming, but we went with it. She had two excellent teachers in 5th grade, which is also when my stepson started kindergarten. DH and I had conferences with the kinder teacher and the reading coordinator because there was no phonics whatsoever. Turns out, that's taboo now. But we went with it and did some tutoring at home.

6th and 1st grade. OMGiH!

SD's language arts teacher distributed a take-home exam with errors in every question. I marked it up, scanned the edited version, and emailed it back to the teacher, who responded, "Oops! Didn't have time to proofread." REALLY?!?!? The person who is supposed to set the example and raise the bar for these kiddos can't write a basic sentence? Joy of joys. I won't get into the problems with the math teacher. There was a very long line of parents and other faculty screaming about her, but bad teachers apparently can't get fired. SD's other teachers were good, if not a tad too laid back. It's so frustrating trying to get a kid to take pride in her work and be prompt when she could turn in an error-filled assignment over a week late and still get an A.

Meanwhile, my stepson brought home vast quantities of gibberish that the school called creative spelling. The reading curriculum was based on whole-word reading, and they did not correct spelling for fear that it would discourage children from writing. The result of this new and improved method was that he wasn't learning to read. His 1st grade teacher, not a fan of the curriculum, told us point blank that it didn't work well, wasn't working for him, and warned us that he'd struggle. She was ecstatic when she found out which school we planned to send him to and also that we were holding him back to repeat 1st in a phonics-based curriculum.

This year is a whole new ball game. SD's 7th grade teachers are under no pressure to hand out undeserved grades or secure their contracts with standardized test scores. If HW is late, it's a discipline slip. No excuses. SD had to get a few slips and clean the gym during lunch hour once before dropping the special snowflake persona. I don't have to fuss at her to take pride in her work or fix mistakes anymore because she knows a subpar effort will be handed right back to her as "incomplete". Both kids love the school though. SS is reading and spelling correctly, and his enthusiasm has not been negatively affected by having his papers corrected (in red ink, too! :eek: ;)). Our only regrets are not switching sooner.

WHERE are your kids??? I want to teach there! Discipline? More concern over learning correctly and getting consequences than poor little baby's psyche? It sounds like a dream teaching job. Imagine focusing on TEACHING rather than CYA in case some little darling lies to psycho parent and I get accused of something dreadful. I was just written up for "bullying" a kid because I leaned in a doorway and mentioned how he was doing and apologies are due for all of the lying and cheating because psycho parent (who I have been in MANY meetings with when her child lied and he admitted it) threatened to sue.

Sigh. Did my grades today. 1/3 of my class got F's, and that's only because I bumped up grades. The only reason anyone failed is missing work. Anyone could actually pass if they actually did their work during class time. Sigh.

Tapperjockey
Apr. 9, 2012, 11:23 PM
WHERE are your kids??? I want to teach there? Discipline? More concern over learning correctly and getting consequences than poor little baby's psyche? It sounds like a dream teaching job.

Sigh. Did my grades today. 1/3 of my class got F's, and that's only because I bumped up grades. The only reason anyone failed is missing work. Anyone could actually pass if they actually did their work during class time. Sigh.

I can't imagine how frustrating that must be. You aren't asking them to bring you the sun and moons on a chain here. Just, do some work while in your class.

Calvincrowe
Apr. 9, 2012, 11:26 PM
BTDT--you could be grading my classes!! I've never had a student fail because they could NOT do the work, instead, they fail because they choose not to DO the work. I just emailed a parent back whose son told her that his paper that was due on March 19, was "still not due yet"...and I've emailed and met with both mom and student about this project already!! Really?? You are still believing what your kid tells you? OMG!

Spring Break ended with the first day back today...9 days out of school (weekends included) and of the 35 kids who haven't done anything on this project (it began February 13) still didn't complete anything to give me today. Le Sigh...

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make 'em drink....change horse to kid, water to school...

Zarafa
Apr. 9, 2012, 11:32 PM
Mr. Z (Dr. Z actually) is currently dealing with an eerily similar situation with his second and third year university students. No one wants to read, no one wants to write (papers or quizzes) and no one wants to listen to lectures. So they don't do anything, then panic when they're failing and run off to the higher ups to complain. And Dr. Z gets shouted at by the higher ups.

And we wonder why all the good teachers/profs leave the system?

Beentheredonethat
Apr. 9, 2012, 11:34 PM
Calvin--Yep. This is EVERY conversation I have with every good teacher. It's the same story.

The "fun" teachers always say they never have any problems and they always get good work from the kids. I saw one of the "fun" teacher's papers. The score was 8/12 and it said B-. !!!! (For those of you not math majors, that is 66%--that should have been a D.)

One of the "nice" 6th grade teachers I HATE to get kids from, because they are so used to doing nothing and getting passing grades, actually had a map on her wall in a department meeting. She proudly displayed a world map that the kids had managed to do all on their own--they had written the name of all seven continents AND colored them! In 6th grade! She was so proud she left them up for months!

Gee, I wonder why the kids I get from her can't actually read a question in the grade level history book and do anything but randomly copy something from the book.

Tapperjockey
Apr. 10, 2012, 12:03 AM
Calvin--Yep. This is EVERY conversation I have with every good teacher. It's the same story.

The "fun" teachers always say they never have any problems and they always get good work from the kids. I saw one of the "fun" teacher's papers. The score was 8/12 and it said B-. !!!! (For those of you not math majors, that is 66%--that should have been a D.)

One of the "nice" 6th grade teachers I HATE to get kids from, because they are so used to doing nothing and getting passing grades, actually had a map on her wall in a department meeting. She proudly displayed a world map that the kids had managed to do all on their own--they had written the name of all seven continents AND colored them! In 6th grade! She was so proud she left them up for months!

Gee, I wonder why the kids I get from her can't actually read a question in the grade level history book and do anything but randomly copy something from the book.

Oh wow. I am now very depressed. I was obviously so gifted, I could do that in second grade (as could most of my class mates) and we squandered our talents :(

bumknees
Apr. 10, 2012, 05:08 AM
[quote=Calvincrowe;6247306]On the contrary, Bumknees, I've read every single word you wrote. Regardless of your disability, you come across as someone who has below-standard writing skills. Period. Bless your heart to keeping at it, but when you post publicly about education and how poorly you feel your children's teachers in such a manner, others are going to judge you, sorry.

I take extreme offense that you would judge me and my ability as a teacher based on my suggestion you edit what you write. How dare you! You don't know me AT ALL. I don't know you, either, but I certainly haven't disparaged your ability to parent, work, learn.

I am currently sitting here taking a break from editing my student's 8th Grade Research Project papers--yup, EVERY SINGLE DAMN ONE OF THEM, from the Hispanic student who barely grasps his new language, to the Special Education young lady who has a 3rd grade intellect, right on to my many average students who have written some pretty craptacular papers. I take the time to read every word, and help them correct their mistakes.

My God! Your crack about "making me lose my job" really pisses me off! So, if you got a lousy diagnosis from the doctor, would you demand his job too? How about the snarky store clerk? Call in a parent on that one too?

quote]

Apparently you did not or perhaps you would not have brought it up. I have my 4yr degree. Yes I have it is animals science not something that I actually have to deal with people.I do not do people well never have . I generally do not like them. Never have.

I got it before computers had ''hard drives'' dont know if you are old enough not my business one way or other. But the computers then had drives that were tapes if you were lucky and if wealthy those huge disks.. So no no computers in my eduction so TYPING was and to me still optional.

BUT I CAN SPELL AND WRITE how may of your kids can do that with out spell check? and with pen and paper? I can to this day dispite the hands write and look up in an unabridged real book dictionary look words up if necessary, write a paper and have few words, mis punctuation, et al in it. Faster and better than I can type the damn thing. And it be legelable. Can your students when they graduate college do that? Do they even know what a book unabridged dictionary is?

As for my ''crack'' about me going after your job and your asking if I would go after a Dr or even a cashier or waitress?
Yes btdt one more than one occasion on all the catagories.
The Dr's took more than demand that the person left before I did.

but yeah there was one Dr who said no problem with knee that clearly had problem, has had problem for more than a year, etc yeah he lost his job... Took me about 3wks to get him out. He was at the Cleveland Clinic..
Had a torn ACL..tear was clear on the films even to untrained eye..
Seems he had a problem with those on the insurance I was on at the time.
I assume you are aware of what the Cleveland Clinic is yes? I only ask because not everyone is not a slam on your intellegence, I just know some who have not heard of it until I mentioned it to them and they are not stupid people either.

Then there was the neurologist who looked me in the eye and said " That thing in your head is not causing your seizures , your seizures are all in your head." Yeah he was given the boot real fast and I had to go through the Dept of the Navy for that one. So a teacher is nothing.

Heck got a 1star demoted to a ltjg of course he had only had that star about 3mths but boy it felt good..

And you think a teacher is a big deal... naw teacher is a snack on the table of life...

xeroxchick
Apr. 10, 2012, 06:42 AM
It is considered a matter of equity that all students are pushed to complete college requirements. In fact, at some point, the college requirement and graduation requirements will be the same.

Students in my district have to flunk out before they can go learn a trade. All the voc ed classes are shut down as the teachers retire, so no auto shop, no metal shop, no business classes. The only classes left are computer classes, and even these are closing and the teachers who have taught at my school for 20+ years are being reassigned because of budget cuts.

So yeah, we are accused of the bigotry of low expectations if we say that some kids are not cut out for college and should be able to learn to be plumbers, electricians, day care workers, etc.

Our average class size for next year? 43.

There is a real predjudice against "blue collar" jobs. Why do all kids have to go to college? Wait, they must get into severe debt and then be jobless? College is no guarentee. In fact, my cousin who went to a tech school to learn electrical (I can't even tell you what it is because working on a high rise's electrical system seems like brain surgery) could buy his own home at 28 and has been finacially secure his whole career.
They are doing the same thing in my school. No more "shop" class, no hands-on at all.

And I want to remind parents again that it's the "fun" and "easy" teachers who never get complaints because they have low standards. Saw this all the time when I taught middle school. When teachers demand that students meet a standard, when they try to get them to come in for extra help, when they insist on effort, they are accused of "picking on" that student and the parents call a meeting complaining about "personality clash."

xeroxchick
Apr. 10, 2012, 06:54 AM
I have some ideas about what would help the schools and students:

1. Activity. These kids are so passive it is terrifying. All the technology, sitting and staring and using their thumbs is about as active as most of them get. They never go outside at all. So, get them outside and WORKING. Make them contribute to the community. Pick up trash, garden, chop wood, arrry water, whatever, get moving and breathing in the fresh air - get them engaged. Get them oxygenated, get their blood moving.

2. Nutrition. If they eat breakfast at all it is a honey bun or other sugar. Over half the students eat only french fries and katsup for lunch. their brains are at a disadvantage and that part can be fixed.

3. If they do nothing and fail, jerk their butts out and put them in a boot camp. Teach them to struggle for what they want. At least remove the privelege of school and put them to use doing something unpleasant.

4. Not all students have to be at the highest levels of math, science, ss and enlish. Pick two. Let them specialize as a tenth grader and go into vocational or work study programs with adults. I bet that bored guy who won't read "To Kill a Mockingbird" will read the technical manual if he is working with a bunch of men two days a week.

But then again, this would require a socratic state where the government raises the children, because most of this should be done by the parents, parents who just want to hand the kids everything and go in and complain on their behalf when things aren't peachy.