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ForeverandAlways
Mar. 21, 2012, 05:25 PM
Hey Guys,
I just bought this pony jumper from a local barn near me. About a week after purchasing him I emailed the selling asking if they have the bill of sale from the previous owner so I can do an ownership change with USEF as the pony is still listed under her name. I never got a message back about the bill of sale from the sellers. I thought it was kind of strange, but I just let it go figuring they just never saw the message. They willingly gave me the pony's USEF number, so I didn't think anything of it.
I had talked to the pony's USEF listed owner last spring about possibly taking her a couple of her ponies to train and show, so I had her email and I decided to shoot her an email to see if I could get her to sign the papers and this is what I got in response....... I'm looking to qualify him for PF's for this year and need his card.

Hi Lauren,
Unfortunately I will not sign the papers. I had free leased my ponies to them with no contract as long as they advertise to sell them. Few months into the lease I asked that I needed them sold because I need the money since they weren't advertising or I would take them back. I even tried showing up and taking my horses and she called the cops. I got a lawyer involved but we never went to court. She said if I wanted my ponies back I would have to pay her the expenses of both ponies. A free lease or any kind of lease is when the leasee takes full responsibility and pays all the expenses not the owner. At the end of the said lease (November 2011) she wouldn't give them back to me unless I paid. I am not going to pay for them to free lease my ponies and make money off of it.
So I am sorry but I will not sign anything. Also good luck trying to qualify for pony finals. If your not showing in the jumpers you probably won't do good. I owned him for years trying to turn him into a hunter/equitation pony and only for a month he was good enough to show in the hunters then he started refusing.

HPFarmette
Mar. 21, 2012, 05:29 PM
OOh, that's ugly. Sorry I don't have any advice. Does USEF have a policy for such a situation? Might be worth asking....

Carol Ames
Mar. 21, 2012, 05:31 PM
one experienced with matters of equine ownership:yes::cool:

overthemoon
Mar. 21, 2012, 05:34 PM
The email you got back didn't sound hugely professional, so I would bet that there is more to it (and I hope so, for your sake). First and foremost, you need to deal with the sellers as your exchange was with them, and not this previous owner.

Good luck, and I hope it gets resolved easily!

SendenHorse
Mar. 21, 2012, 05:35 PM
all I can say is get everything you need at time of sale. After that all bets are off.....

ForeverandAlways
Mar. 21, 2012, 05:35 PM
Thanks Ladies,
The previous owner doesn't want him back at all. I just don't want this to come back and haunt me in the future if she suddenly decides she does. We got the pony for next to nothing and now I know why...

CHT
Mar. 21, 2012, 05:37 PM
Well that's a messy situation.

I would keep the email (as evidence), and contact USEF for advice before worrying about a lawyer. I imagine this situation is similar to a horse/pony being sold for unpaid board/training bills, so they likely have a protocol in place.

Giddy-up
Mar. 21, 2012, 05:40 PM
Contact USEF.

I bought my horse from my trainer who had taken possession of said horse from the USEF listed owner. My bill of sale came from my trainer who was the "owner", but not in the eyes of the USEF. I was able to sign a form (something special USEF had), pay my fee & sent it to USEF. 2 weeks later I rec'd my horse's card (he already had a lifetime membership) with me now listed as owner. I never needed the owner who was listed to sign anything since they were no longer involved in the situation. USEF was very helpful when I called.

ETA--Sorry, I can't cut & paste, but go to the USEF website. Click Horse Services on the left side, then Forms & Guidelines. Ownership Affidavit (3rd from the top) is the form I used. You can say you weren't given the USEF card cause horse was sold to you by a 3rd party (horse dealer) & not direct from owner?

ForeverandAlways
Mar. 21, 2012, 05:46 PM
Giddy-upp, are you by chance talking about the Ownership Affidavit? I was just on their website to see if they had anything for a situation like this

Giddy-up
Mar. 21, 2012, 05:49 PM
Giddy-upp, are you by chance talking about the Ownership Affidavit? I was just on their website to see if they had anything for a situation like this

Yes. But I would call the number listed on that form first. I did this almost 3 years ago now so not sure if their procedures have changed.

S A McKee
Mar. 21, 2012, 06:05 PM
Giddy-upp, are you by chance talking about the Ownership Affidavit? I was just on their website to see if they had anything for a situation like this

The USEF transfer form has required the signature of the previous USEF recorded owner for several years.

I've used the ownership affidavit to transfer ownership but in that cass I had a bill of sale from the prior owner ( who was the USEF recorded owner). The prior owner was out of the country at the time and was unable to locate the USEF recording certificate. Trainer or Agent signatures are not acceptable by USEF.

As others suggsested, you probably want to call USEF. You may have a problem because the folks you bought the pony from don't have any proof that they own the pony.

And if all else fails you can do what everybody else does.
Simply create a new recording for the pony. You'll get a new recording number and you are good to go. LOL

kmwines01
Mar. 21, 2012, 06:16 PM
I find that email very strange. I'm assuming she's upset that she didn't get the money from the sale in addition to all the other stuff but didn't she state that the original purpose was that the pony was there to be sold?

Lord Helpus
Mar. 21, 2012, 06:29 PM
Hey Guys,
I just bought this pony jumper from a local barn near me. About a week after purchasing him I emailed the selling asking if they have the bill of sale from the previous owner so I can do an ownership change with USEF as the pony is still listed under her name. I never got a message back about the bill of sale from the sellers. I thought it was kind of strange, but I just let it go figuring they just never saw the message. They willingly gave me the pony's USEF number, so I didn't think anything of it.
I had talked to the pony's USEF listed owner last spring about possibly taking her a couple of her ponies to train and show, so I had her email and I decided to shoot her an email to see if I could get her to sign the papers and this is what I got in response....... I'm looking to qualify him for PF's for this year and need his card.

Hi Lauren,
Unfortunately I will not sign the papers. I had free leased my ponies to them with no contract as long as they advertise to sell them. Few months into the lease I asked that I needed them sold because I need the money since they weren't advertising or I would take them back. I even tried showing up and taking my horses and she called the cops. I got a lawyer involved but we never went to court. She said if I wanted my ponies back I would have to pay her the expenses of both ponies. A free lease or any kind of lease is when the leasee takes full responsibility and pays all the expenses not the owner. At the end of the said lease (November 2011) she wouldn't give them back to me unless I paid. I am not going to pay for them to free lease my ponies and make money off of it.
So I am sorry but I will not sign anything. Also good luck trying to qualify for pony finals. If your not showing in the jumpers you probably won't do good. I owned him for years trying to turn him into a hunter/equitation pony and only for a month he was good enough to show in the hunters then he started refusing.


If you are sure she doesn't want the pony back (get it in writing) then you can change the pony's name and register him under a new number.

Sadly this is done all the time, but often for nefarious reasons.

westie55
Mar. 21, 2012, 08:09 PM
I agree that the email response you got from the former owner sounds very unprofessional, the kind of thing a teenage girl who feels scorned might write. I assume this person is a professional if you were considering taking ponies for her to train/show. I don't know any respectable professional who would write something to extent of "good luck with that, you won't do good." If she is going to behave in that manner I would take everything she says with a grain of salt and wouldn't necessarily expect it all to be accurate; she sounds rather bitter and like she has some kind of agenda.

The bottom line is you can't be sure what really happened; I'd just get the pony a new USEF # and start fresh because neither of these people sound like individuals you want to be involved with. It is not uncommon for people to register horses or ponies under new numbers.

Good luck :)

ForeverandAlways
Mar. 21, 2012, 09:30 PM
Thanks everyone, the seller emailed me back after I sent her 4 more emails saying she's going to try and find the bill of sale. I guess we'll see what happens there. In the mean time give me some name suggestions. His Barn name is Pogo and he's a bay with no white.
I'd like to stay with the See Me names as my pony hunters are See Me Sparkle and See Me Shine

AnEnglishRider
Mar. 21, 2012, 09:37 PM
See Me Bounce?

Sorry, with a barn name like Pogo it had to be suggested :P

northerhunter
Mar. 21, 2012, 09:40 PM
Thanks everyone, the seller emailed me back after I sent her 4 more emails saying she's going to try and find the bill of sale. I guess we'll see what happens there. In the mean time give me some name suggestions. His Barn name is Pogo and he's a bay with no white.
I'd like to stay with the See Me names as my pony hunters are See Me Sparkle and See Me Shine

See Me Soar
See Me Fly
See Me Sail

Sunnyhorse
Mar. 21, 2012, 10:20 PM
I presume this pony's going to make you a happy girl -- See Me Smile? :)

khobstetter
Mar. 21, 2012, 10:45 PM
I think there could be huge problems if the OP did this without going through USEF channels on this ponys ORIGINAL number. The horse/ponys # stays with it just about forever unless the federation decides it's ok to change it and gives permission. The problem is that the pony can only be shown under the USEF registered/recorded owner and it is a rule violation to do it any other way and will come back on the OP. They need to take their issue to an attorney and USEF and NOT just get another number without USEF express permission..THAT is looking for trouble.



The bottom line is you can't be sure what really happened; I'd just get the pony a new USEF # and start fresh because neither of these people sound like individuals you want to be involved with. It is not uncommon for people to register horses or ponies under new numbers.

Good luck :)

khobstetter
Mar. 21, 2012, 10:50 PM
If you are sure she doesn't want the pony back (get it in writing) then you can change the pony's name and register him under a new number.

Sadly this is done all the time, but often for nefarious reasons.

Not good advice...yes it is done "all the time" BUT USEF is working diligently on stopping this way of skateing around the rules. If the OP does that and gets caught, it is a rule violation SO I would suggest she takes the time and energy to do it the right way. Bummer it would be to get caught up a rule violation in this situation...... JMHO

dags
Mar. 21, 2012, 10:56 PM
Seemore.

The rest of this is batty. I would have probably followed Lord Helpus' route, which I guess could be difficult now that you've posted it on the internet. At the same time, USEF probably doesn't care.

jr
Mar. 21, 2012, 11:00 PM
Use the ownership affidavit. Provide proof that you paid for the pony via cancelled check, wire transfer etc. On the form, explain that sellers accepted payment, but did not provide bill of sale. My experience with a similar situation ended well, they updated the ownership without issue. Skipping owners on usef documentation happens. Horses going through sales barns frequently go through multiple owners before anyone asks for an update to the usef registration.

khobstetter
Mar. 21, 2012, 11:08 PM
Use the ownership affidavit. Provide proof that you paid for the pony via cancelled check, wire transfer etc. On the form, explain that sellers accepted payment, but did not provide bill of sale. My experience with a similar situation ended well, they updated the ownership without issue. Skipping owners on usef documentation happens. Horses going through sales barns frequently go through multiple owners before anyone asks for an update to the usef registration.

Agree with jr here. Go about it through proper channels, you do not want to get crosswise.

jr
Mar. 21, 2012, 11:09 PM
One other thought, I would not go into all these details on the phone with usef regarding the previous ownership exchange. It's not directly pertinent to the issue at hand. You bought the horse, and can prove you paid for it. The previous owner issue has nothing to do with this transaction.

Usef isn't in business to adjudicate ownership. They simply want to keep the horse straight and tracked in the database, and collect the $60 fee for the transfer.

khobstetter
Mar. 21, 2012, 11:25 PM
One other thought, I would not go into all these details on the phone with usef regarding the previous ownership exchange. It's not directly pertinent to the issue at hand. You bought the horse, and can prove you paid for it. The previous owner issue has nothing to do with this transaction.

Usef isn't in business to adjudicate ownership. They simply want to keep the horse straight and tracked in the database, and collect the $60 fee for the transfer.

Yep, agree. Just present the facts.....they probably don't need, nor do they want, "the story". Just answer questions concisely and factually.

Tapperjockey
Mar. 21, 2012, 11:26 PM
One other thought, I would not go into all these details on the phone with usef regarding the previous ownership exchange. It's not directly pertinent to the issue at hand. You bought the horse, and can prove you paid for it. The previous owner issue has nothing to do with this transaction.

Usef isn't in business to adjudicate ownership. They simply want to keep the horse straight and tracked in the database, and collect the $60 fee for the transfer.

Sure it does. If the owner who was freeleasing the horse goes to court .. couldn't the OP be accused of recieving stolen property?

I would not want this to bite me in the ass.

What I really would do.. I'd return the pony to the person I bought it from and demand my money back. If that was not forthcoming, i would be seeking legal advice.

marginall
Mar. 21, 2012, 11:32 PM
USEF does not get involved in disputes. Forge a bill of sale and move on with your life.

jr
Mar. 21, 2012, 11:37 PM
No. First, you don't know what the true story is on the pony. You have an old owner making allegations, unsubstantiated. Two, Notice the old owner did not say, that's my pony, give it back. New owner can reasonably assume ownership has been settled. She has proof she bought the pony, old owner is aware, and old owner has not provided her with any formal or informal documentation disputing ownership.

2tempe
Mar. 21, 2012, 11:53 PM
Well, this is a can of worms... Not knowing how much $ you have paid for said pony, I would be very careful how I proceed. First would talk to USEF and perhaps even fax them the info that you have. If they give you ownership status, that's fine for showing, etc. BUT if the two prior involved parties decide to battle out the money thing, you could ultimately get dragged into the mess. If you have any lawyer friends, I'd try to get a bit of free legal advice or a referral to a good lawyer.

Do NOT forge a bill of sale, tempting though that may be...

lachevaline
Mar. 22, 2012, 03:11 AM
I get the feeling that there's more going on than meets the eye. Sounds like a pre-existing dispute between the previous owner and the seller - I would take anything either of them say with a grain of salt.

Old Mac Donald
Mar. 22, 2012, 06:40 AM
See Me Papers.

Sorry, couldn't resist!

ReeseTheBeast
Mar. 22, 2012, 07:03 AM
See Me Papers.

Sorry, couldn't resist!


HAHA!!

bumknees
Mar. 22, 2012, 07:23 AM
This is not legal advise I am not a Lawyer, Paralegal, or other type of legal personel. I do not play one on Tv or other forms of entertainment And I did not sleep at a holiday Inn Express or other type of Hotel or motel last night...

Well she has an email from old owner that states ( old owner) has nothing in writing from free lease as in the conditions of said free lease. So the seller of pony could sell pony stating any conditions of ''free lease'' as they choose. So old owner can not come back at all as she is the one who freely stated she has nothing in writing. And we all have heard the saying about verbal agreements.. wether it is true or not...


So new owner has nothing to fear in the future of the old owner who would not sign usef transefer papers. AS new pony owner has from old pony owner freely stated she had nothing in writing yadda yadda...

I would ust make sure that that particular email stay in pony preminate file in where ever the files are kept. Not the one that goes with pony to shows or the one that goes to barn for their records kwim... the one that the owner keeps... So when pony is sold you have proof for next owner...

that is what I would do..

Pennywell Bay
Mar. 22, 2012, 08:18 AM
USEF does not get involved in disputes. Forge a bill of sale and move on with your life.

Move on -yes, forge a bill of sale- no.

Get a new #. There is no way to tell what the real story is. The "old" owner did not threaten you with legal action. Unfortunately, these situations arise.

If you can get your money back and return the pony, that is always a safe move. If you won't get your money back, I suggest following the (honest) advice given on this board in regards to obtaining a new number.

jr
Mar. 22, 2012, 08:41 AM
Highly recommend you do not get a new number. That is an infraction of usef rules that will get you a pck of trouble if discovered.

Do not make this a big deal. Usef does owner reassignments off an affidavit all the time. Don't create an issue where none exists. Do the affidavit, provide proof of payment, and you will get the ownership reassigned. This circumstance (no bill of sale) comes up more than you think. This isn't a unique or tough situation to resolve. Just use the form usef has developed for just this purpose!

Pennywell Bay
Mar. 22, 2012, 09:22 AM
ug

S A McKee
Mar. 22, 2012, 09:22 AM
Not good advice...yes it is done "all the time" BUT USEF is working diligently on stopping this way of skateing around the rules. If the OP does that and gets caught, it is a rule violation SO I would suggest she takes the time and energy to do it the right way. Bummer it would be to get caught up a rule violation in this situation...... JMHO

You're kidding right?
USEF has no way of knowing that duplicate registrations are for the same horse.
In this case USEF will not transfer the ownership without the signed USEF recording form and the previous owner says it won't be provided.
What do you suggest, that she not show the pony and write the experience off as a loss?
I see BNT trainers doing this all the time when they are acting as agent. They know USEF will not honor their signature on the transfer form ( and who knows what the relationship with the 'real' owner is ) so they record the horse as a new registration with themselves as owner. Then when the horse sells they sign the 'new' recording and the purchaser can do a 'legal' transfer with USEF.

S A McKee
Mar. 22, 2012, 09:30 AM
Highly recommend you do not get a new number. That is an infraction of usef rules that will get you a pck of trouble if discovered.

Do not make this a big deal. Usef does owner reassignments off an affidavit all the time. Don't create an issue where none exists. Do the affidavit, provide proof of payment, and you will get the ownership reassigned. This circumstance (no bill of sale) comes up more than you think. This isn't a unique or tough situation to resolve. Just use the form usef has developed for just this purpose!

I think you misunderstand the purpose of the ownership affidavit.
It is specifically for situations when not all owners are available to sign the transfer form. Or the USEF recording form is lost. And it needs a copy of the bill of sale to be sent with the form.
In this case she didn't purchase the horse from the USEF recorded owner. And she can't provide proof of payment to the USEF recorded owner because she didn't pay that person for the pony.
Using your logic anybody could submit an affidavit for last years HOY winner and get the horse re-recorded in a new owners name.
USEF does get involved with ownership issues. Please search COTH for a recent thread-rant about their involvement with a well known BNT and her disputes over ownership.

hr
Mar. 22, 2012, 09:36 AM
I bought a horse from a dealer who did not know the horse's background. We were at a local schooling show, and the horse's old owner from 10 years previous was there and recognized him. Come to find out, he had a lifetime recording, but the owner listed was the person that this lady had sold him to, and she wouldn't answer my emails. So I told this to the USEF, and told them I wanted to show him under his original number as the rules state. They sent me a form to fill out, and they transferred the ownership to us. Easy.

Hauwse
Mar. 22, 2012, 09:54 AM
It is quite possible that the sellers did technically own the horse.

Agister laws, livery stable keepers act, do allow for the sale of a horse for unpaid board etc. If they followed the law, informed the owner, made public record of the sale etc. it could be a legal sale. The whole issue with the original owner, and the free lease etc. is something the seller will have to deal with. Chances are however if they followed the law and sold the horse it is pretty much a shut case.

I would find out the circumstances from the seller and then present your case, so to speak to USEF.

HydroPHILE
Mar. 22, 2012, 10:12 AM
About a week after purchasing him I emailed the selling asking if they have the bill of sale from the previous owner so I can do an ownership change with USEF as the pony is still listed under her name.

I had free leased my ponies to them with no contract as long as they advertise to sell them. I am not going to pay for them to free lease my ponies and make money off of it.


Definitions for my below assessment:
"Owner" = original owner who "leased" the ponies out
"Seller" = the person from whom you purchased the pony

If the Owner never sold the ponies to the person you bought them from, then you will never get the "original bill of sale." The barn from whom you purchased your pony is yanking your chain when they say they are "looking for the bill of sale from the original owner" unless they intend on contacting the owner which does not sound like anything will come of that.

If there was an actual free lease agreement (it doesn't sound like there was one) versus a sort of broker agreement in which the owner lets them use/show her ponies in order to sell them, then the sellers wouldn't have ownership of the ponies. If it was more of a broker agreement, then the ponies, due to Stableman's Liens, etc. and depending on the rules for such, belong to the sellers.

I am sure this isn't the first time the USEF has had to deal with all of this so they probably have a solution or can send a letter to the original owner? I have no idea. Did you, at least, get a bill of sale from the seller? Perhaps asking the USEF something along these lines, "I paid for this pony, USEF #XYZ, (enclose copy of check/bill of sale from seller) and would like to transfer the pony into my name. What do I need to do?"

I would, however, cease contact with the owner and let the sellers try to sort it out.

ForeverandAlways
Mar. 22, 2012, 10:54 AM
I did get a bill of sale from the sellers and all contact with the original owner has ceased.
I was told that he came in a package with the other pony and they were supposed to be quiet enough for lessons. The pony in question is definitely not quiet enough for lessons. I don't know if money was exchanged, ect. I called USEF yesterday and left a message stating I had a question about a change of ownership and I'm hoping they'll call me back today.
I personally think that the ponies were sent on a broker type deal and then the sellers decided they wanted money for board and the owner couldn't provide it.

findeight
Mar. 22, 2012, 10:55 AM
USEF is not a law enforcement agency, has no jurisdiction outside running and tracking shows and can't get involved beyond that in this kind of dispute-all OP needs to do is get the affadavit in lieu of having a bill of sale. See nothing unethical about that at all. She BOUGHT the pony and the previous owner does not want it back and the seller is not going to take it back either.

I'd, honestly, change the Ponys name too, get him another number. Kind of doubt he has tons of points anyway and that former owner who "free leased" them to the seller sounds whacky from that e mail...and she doesn't want it back anyway.

Have a sneaky suspicion there is more to this story and seller probably siezed the Ponies via lien-previous owner is not going to say she lost them for unpaid bills and send you a copy of the lien. Seller isn't going to send you that either.

Any type of ownership dispute needs to go to local authorities via the court system. Cost more then any worth gained out of that original USEF#.

OP has the Pony and can get an affadavit to replace the bill of sale so she can remedy the situation at minimum cost. Or just change the name and apply for a new #, it is her Pony. Lots and lots of them are sold several times with nobody recording it with USEF because they don't show there, that's why it is common to just use the affadavit and not have to chase 4 owners down asking for copies of a legal document not involving you.

PineTreeFarm
Mar. 22, 2012, 12:37 PM
USEF is not a law enforcement agency, has no jurisdiction outside running and tracking shows and can't get involved beyond that in this kind of dispute-all OP needs to do is get the affadavit in lieu of having a bill of sale. See nothing unethical about that at all. She BOUGHT the pony and the previous owner does not want it back and the seller is not going to take it back either.



But USEF does get involved with ownership disputes if the matter has become a legal issue.
Do a search for GR 1101 in this forum.
In this case, you are right, we don't know the entire story but it may turn out that the person who sold the pony has legal action pending against the person who claims to be the owner ( and is the USEF recorded owner).

findeight
Mar. 22, 2012, 02:43 PM
Oh, I know they can but only if the proper local authorites are involved. They have no jurisdiction to do so otherwise.

HydroPHILE
Mar. 22, 2012, 02:47 PM
Have a sneaky suspicion there is more to this story and seller probably siezed the Ponies via lien-previous owner is not going to say she lost them for unpaid bills and send you a copy of the lien. Seller isn't going to send you that either.


The more information that comes out, that's my suspicion as well. The owner thought it would be a 'free lease' situation, and the seller thought it would be a 'broker' situation. How those arrangements got there? Who knows.

Since the OP has the bill of sale from the seller, she should have no trouble getting a the pony changed into her name.

It sounds exactly like a "you can ride the ponies and try to sell them for me" deal gone bad (owner owed money for board, training, and showing, and didn't want to pay it/didn't think they owed it so seller sold under stableman's lien.)

Crown Royal
Mar. 22, 2012, 02:48 PM
I like the name See Me Bounce. Very cute for a pony jumper, especially with the nickname Pogo.

As for this whole messy situation? I have no idea. If I couldn't get the previous owner to give me a bill of sale, I would probably just re-register the pony.

The owner (owner #1) last listed for the pony sounds bitter. It's her fault she let her ponies leave without a contract and expected them to advertise them for her, for free. It's dishonest of the person you bought from (owner #2) to sell the ponies and keep the money for herself.

BUT you have no way of knowing if this is the real situation. There's a thousand other scenarios you could think of. Hard to trust owner #1 because she sounds so bitter and unprofessional ("you won't do good"...really??), and hard to trust owner #2 because they do not have a bill of sale and are not registered as the owner.

I wouldn't trust either party. I would call USEF, give them the basic facts of the situation, and do your best to get the pony's card w/ current number.

-State you purchased pony #1234 from Jane Doe. Pony is in your possesion and was paid for through personal check/cashier's check/cash/whatever
-State last listed owner did not give Jane Doe a bill of sale when sold.
-State you have bill of sale from Jane Doe.

Will that work?

ForeverandAlways
Mar. 22, 2012, 05:17 PM
Update:
Talked to USEF, they said to just send the Bill of Sale from the seller and fill out the Owner Affidavit and everything should transfer over fine.

Rosie
Mar. 22, 2012, 06:19 PM
See me in court ??

sorry, couldn't resist. :)
Hope you are able to get it all squared away. Enjoy your new pony!

jr
Mar. 22, 2012, 07:05 PM
McKee,

I do not misunderstand the use of the form. I had a similar situation. Usef rep indicated that was the appropriate form. Since they reassigned horses twice for me, I think I'll bow to their knowledge and expertise.

Previous owners will not sign bill of sale or presumably ownership certificate. By definition, they are not available to sign. Not my words, usef rep.

Sunnyhorse
Mar. 22, 2012, 07:18 PM
See Me Papers.

Sorry, couldn't resist!

The way the story is playing out, I'm leaning toward See My Attorney. :D

2tempe
Mar. 23, 2012, 04:42 PM
The way the story is playing out, I'm leaning toward See My Attorney. :D

Now that owner #1 knows that trainer sold said pony, very possible that this could heat up...

vineyridge
Mar. 23, 2012, 08:05 PM
USHJA Rules--JP100.2

2. USHJA Horse Registrations.
a. All horses competing in Federation non-breed restricted licensed competitions with hunter, hunter breeding, jumper and hunter seat equitation classes (except those activities enumerated in GR901.9, items 1-9) must be properly identified and must obtain a Registration Number from USHJA. A registration number for each horse must be entered on all entry forms
for licensed competitions. Only one Registration Number will be issued per horse, and must remain with the horse throughout its career. Anyone knowingly applying for a duplicate Registration Number for an individual horse may be subject to disciplinary action. The Federation and/or USHJA as applicable must be notified of any change of ownership and/or competition name of the horse. Owners are requested to notify the Federation and/or USHJA as applicable
of corrections to previously submitted information, e.g., names, addresses, breed registration, pedigree, or markings.

They have an explicit provision in their General Rules that they do not get involved in ownership disputes. If they get a Bill of Sale on a horse, they will transfer ownership for their purposes.