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View Full Version : BO's, do you charge extra for stall rest?



mpsbarnmanager
Mar. 20, 2012, 01:54 PM
I have never charged in the past, but I currently have a horse in my barn that has pretty much been on stall rest the entire time she has been at my place. Horse moved in on stall rest last june, was rehabbed, was FINALLY allowed turnout, not even 2 months later, horse is off again. Reinjured the same leg in a slightly different spot. Owner decides to do stem cell therapy this time (on a 19 year old horse). That was Dec, horse is STILL on total stall rest with the exception of her daily walks for "rehab", done by her owner. Will continue to be on stall rest for another month at least, probably two. The mare is a total nutjob in her stall, pacing,screaming, sweating to the point that owner decided to leave her other gelding in with the mare, 24 hours a day. Poor boy. The mare is also on a VERY strong combo of ace, reserpine, obviously to calm her, to pretty much no avail. So she TRASHES her stall every. Single. Day.

I felt bad for the owner because of course she had a lot of vet bills, and was having home repair problems at the same time, so I told her I would not charge her extra in December when she was back on stall rest. But I just feel like it's getting out of hand; it's one thing to have a horse on stall rest for a few weeks, but I think this is going to be a constant merry go round of injury, surgery, stall rest, turnout, rinse, repeat. This owner seems to have no limitations on what she will do to "help" this mare.

So the question is: What is an reasonable amount to charge for 2 horses in on stall rest 24/7, if anything?

Sorry this got so long!

CHT
Mar. 20, 2012, 02:09 PM
Sometimes I do; usually with prolonged stall rest I clean the stall an extra time, and go through more bedding. My time and supplies are worth extra, so I bill accordingly.

So if the horse used about $2 a day more shavings than the messiest non-stall rest horse, and requires 15 minutes more of my time, they the owner will be charged an extra $7 a day.

If the horse is super neat and/or the owner is helping with stall cleaning and such, I may waive some or all of the additional fee.

mvp
Mar. 20, 2012, 02:13 PM
Crike!

In your spot, I'd do my very best to keep from adding to this owner's misery. Between the time and money involved for F*ck All of enjoyment of her riding horses, surely she's suffering enough.

If you don't like her or her horse management style then "own" that. Ask her to leave if it gets under your skin that bad. But don't express your displeasure or skepticism about the need for stall-rest under the guise of "it costs more."

It sounds like it really does cost more. If so, do your costing, give your HO (horse owner) a heads up that, say, beginning in April you and she need to make a plan for continued stall rest so that you don't lose your shirt via the extra bedding and labor. Know what you need and then be open to her suggestions about how to get it done.

I hope you can come to a solution. Some of my favorite people are BOs who helped me out when I was struck with some bad horsey luck. It goes a long way in my book, and I'll brag on them to anyone.

AliCat518
Mar. 20, 2012, 02:18 PM
That situation sucks for everyone.

My 17-ish at the time gelding was injured and had surgery. Required 6 or 8 weeks of stall rest. BO and BM told me that I could either pay for stall rest (increasing my board by 60%) or come out every single day and do all of the work.

Luckily, I was a student with online classes. I got there by 8am to clean stalls, feed, hay etc and stayed there all day taking care of my horse, as well as helping around the farm. I thought it was VERY nice of them not to charge me extra and to give me the option to work instead.

CosMonster
Mar. 20, 2012, 02:21 PM
I generally did when I was running a barn, if they were in an actual stall. We had mare motel-style pens too and I didn't charge extra for those, because those were cleaned with the horses in them anyway, weren't bedded unless the owner requested (and then they were paying for the same amount of shavings anyway, they weren't bedded like stalls and it was Colorado so the shavings pretty much blew away most every day anyway :lol:) and so the most extra work would be a couple of extra piles of poop. ;)

But for barn stalls I did, because you do use more shavings when the horse is in 24/7. We generally turned out the horses in box stalls for 10-12 hours a day unless the owner requested otherwise, so a horse on stall rest actually used quite a bit more shavings. We also cleaned their stalls while they were out, so it was more labor and time to have to put the horse on rest in cross ties so the stall could be cleaned, since I don't think it's safe to clean a box stall with the horse in there.

If the horse was just going to be in for a couple of days I didn't worry about it, but for long-term stall rest I think we charged an extra $10 a day, maybe $15 (I don't quite remember). I'd figure out your extra costs (including extra labor) and go from there, but I do think it's fair to charge for it.

kasjordan
Mar. 20, 2012, 02:22 PM
Stall rest lasting more than 5 days gets an extra weekly charge of $50.00. And I think that's super cheap, that covers the extra bedding, not really the extra time.

We don't have this in our contract, I'm glad you brought it up, because it needs to be. When we have one on stall rest we clean the stall a minimum of twice a day, horse always has hay, we check on them throughout the day too. There's quite a bit of extra time, trouble and bedding. If they need another horse beside them, that amount needs to go up too. ( I would probably go to at least 80 a week). You could always tell her she can supply the above and beyond bedding, she will see why you need to charge more then :yes:

Our one boarder has four horses at the barn he's paying for. His gelding went on stall rest for a week, we didn't charge extra (because he's got multiple horses and he's a good paying boarder) but that's when we decided we would be from then on out.You should absolutely charge extra.

In your case, I don't think I'd let her keep the one same horse beside her. For his own sake. Can you switch them up? Do you have others that would enjoy a day inside munching hay?

mpsbarnmanager
Mar. 20, 2012, 02:33 PM
Crike!

In your spot, I'd do my very best to keep from adding to this owner's misery. Between the time and money involved for F*ck All of enjoyment of her riding horses, surely she's suffering enough.

Well, that's what I had been feeling like, I guess it almost feels like it is a permanent situation

If you don't like her or her horse management style then "own" that. Ask her to leave if it gets under your skin that bad. But don't express your displeasure or skepticism about the need for stall-rest under the guise of "it costs more."

I don't not like the owner. I don't know that I agree with her choices but the stall rest for the mare is what the vet said needs to happen for it to heal, and I am not going to argue about that at all; I agree.

It sounds like it really does cost more. If so, do your costing, give your HO (horse owner) a heads up that, say, beginning in April you and she need to make a plan for continued stall rest so that you don't lose your shirt via the extra bedding and labor. Know what you need and then be open to her suggestions about how to get it done.

I hope you can come to a solution. Some of my favorite people are BOs who helped me out when I was struck with some bad horsey luck. It goes a long way in my book, and I'll brag on them to anyone.


I agree. My old BM helped me out a few times too, and I love her all the more for it! I guess I just feel a bit taken advantage of, I tend to err on the side of being too nice/lenient, or whatever, so I wanted opinions on what is standard/expected, etc...

Thanks for the replies!

kasjordan
Mar. 20, 2012, 02:41 PM
Helping out is one thing, but from what I can get from the OP post, it's been 5 or 6 months total for the mare on stall rest already? With 1 or 2 more expected?
Just say she's using 20 extra bucks a week in bedding, sounds like no big deal- but multiply that times 4 weeks in a month, times 5 or 6 months...you're looking at 4 or 500 dollars just in extra bedding, thats not counting extra time OR the extra horse beside her. If you truly think it's going to be ongoing, maybe sit the owner down, show her the numbers and try to come to a mutual agreement on the extras?

Nes
Mar. 20, 2012, 02:54 PM
Not really an answer to the actual problem, but have you considered switching her to peat moss and going for a deep-bed method?

I know it's not fun, and a lot of extra labour, cleaning out really messy stalls!!

mg
Mar. 20, 2012, 03:06 PM
If I were a BO, I would charge extra for a horse on prolonged stall rest (longer than ~10 days) because of the extra labor and supplies. That being said, some of the additional charges being quoted in this thread look astronomical, IMO! An extra $300/month of board? I know I certainly could not afford that, especially if I was also paying the vet bills that required my horse to be on stall rest :no:

At the barn where I winter board, my pony had to be on stall rest for about a week. The BO did not charge me extra and just requested that I pick his stall when I was out at night. My pony is INCREDIBLY clean (poops in a single pile at the back of the stall and pees in a single spot), so that may have been a deciding factor. Another horse at the barn was stall rested for a significant period of time. I do not know if the owner was charged extra, but I did see them regularly dropping off extra bags of shavings (that may have been by choice).

Alagirl
Mar. 20, 2012, 03:06 PM
Not sure how peat would change anything there, but maybe a deep litter method would be beneficial for the horse.


However, now that grass is coming in and such, leaving 2 horses in does create more cost.
Hay when the horses could be out nibbling on grass, the messed up bedding etc. Going by to check more often.

I am not sure if I would start this late in the game to charge her extra, but certainly as BO/BM you have to cover the cost and take that into consideration for the future and add that into consideration, maybe the price list, too.

With most people a little goodwill goes a long way.
Meaning that the $$ the barn is out is repaid in nice atmosphere or good reputation.
(which of course does little to pay the bills, I know)

babyeventer23
Mar. 20, 2012, 03:10 PM
I had a boarder who recently did a short term stall rest. In that instance, I didn't ask for anything, but they still offered very generously for all the extra work, etc.

I think in a long-term situation, if you are undertaking additional expenses - which you obviously are in shavings, etc - then it is very reasonable to add an additional charge.

It sounds like you have a sympathetic heart to what they are going through, but on the flip side, you need to take care of you. When I was on the opposite side of this as a boarder, I would buy bags of shavings and bring them out for my gelding. It was only fair in my opinion; and was something I just offered to do right off the bat.

mvp
Mar. 20, 2012, 03:12 PM
I agree. My old BM helped me out a few times too, and I love her all the more for it! I guess I just feel a bit taken advantage of, I tend to err on the side of being too nice/lenient, or whatever, so I wanted opinions on what is standard/expected, etc...

Thanks for the replies!

Yabbut you aren't being taken advantage of if:

1) A DVM prescribed stall rest, not some HO with nothing better to do but do her Munchausen's by proxy thing.

2) You didn't ask for the additional stall-rest fee. As much as it sux for the HO, I think it does cost more and the HO needs to pay it.

I try to look for ways not to get mad, but to get what I need.

Ozone
Mar. 20, 2012, 03:56 PM
No we don't charge extra.. then again, we don't run and turn out only board situation but a full care which include the stall.

As long as the mare is not breaking your stall up I would not Xtra charge. If the mare is seriously wrecking the place I would charge only for repairs needed. That is fair and should be understood by the owner, you are just looking to keep the horse safe is all. Feel sorry for the gelding tho :( Not his fault!

MoonWitch
Mar. 20, 2012, 04:08 PM
It depends. I have a field boarder that required a few days in for an abcess and vet care. I plan on charging an extra $5/day for that plus supplies.

I disclose that when we first meet and then again when we talk about the course of action prescribed by the vet. Everyone knows what to expect and there are no big surprises.

I've helped out in the past and haven't charged anything - but it was my suggestion and the horse was on full board.

Good luck!

Wayside
Mar. 20, 2012, 04:10 PM
In your case, I don't think I'd let her keep the one same horse beside her. For his own sake. Can you switch them up? Do you have others that would enjoy a day inside munching hay?

I was wondering that as well. When my youngest mare was on stall rest for a couple of months, I got permission to borrow my neighbor's donkey. My older mare would stay in all night, and then in the morning, I'd walk over and get the donkey (who was out all night), and put the donkey in a stall so my older mare could go out during the day. That way no one but stall-rest mare was in 24/7, but she still had company all the time.

Charging extra for the additional hay, bedding, labor, and any repairs is completely reasonable. While I'm sure you feel bad for your boarder, it makes no sense to impoverish yourself for her benefit. Giving a boarder notice before implementing that rate change would be a nice idea, though. And as a previous poster mentioned, it would be a great idea to write something like that into your boarding contract so it doesn't come as a shock to boarders in the future.

And if I had the set up for it, and the boarder was otherwise a great client, I'd seriously consider making a stall-sized paddock instead, so the horse could stay on stall rest but be able to see other horses and get some fresh air. I used to work at a barn that had a few outdoor "stalls" like that. We didn't use them often, but when we needed them, we were so glad they were there. Recuperating horses seemed so much more restful there.

CosMonster
Mar. 20, 2012, 04:59 PM
If I were a BO, I would charge extra for a horse on prolonged stall rest (longer than ~10 days) because of the extra labor and supplies. That being said, some of the additional charges being quoted in this thread look astronomical, IMO! An extra $300/month of board? I know I certainly could not afford that, especially if I was also paying the vet bills that required my horse to be on stall rest :no:

At the barn where I winter board, my pony had to be on stall rest for about a week. The BO did not charge me extra and just requested that I pick his stall when I was out at night. My pony is INCREDIBLY clean (poops in a single pile at the back of the stall and pees in a single spot), so that may have been a deciding factor. Another horse at the barn was stall rested for a significant period of time. I do not know if the owner was charged extra, but I did see them regularly dropping off extra bags of shavings (that may have been by choice).

An extra $300 a month sounds like a lot, but think of it from my perspective...I'm going through a couple of extra dollars' worth of shavings a day (I think we figured it out to be $3). I'm feeding extra hay, since normally I'd just be feeding twice a day since there's stuff to nibble on in the pasture, but a couple of flakes twice a day isn't enough for a stall-bound horse. That's at least $5 extra a day, often more. I have to pay my workers more because it takes them longer to clean the stall. If I have to leave another horse in so your horse doesn't freak out (which is almost always necessary in the way my barn was set up since the horse in the stall would be totally alone otherwise), I have to pay for those extra shavings for two stalls (I usually rotated the horses so no one had to miss too much turnout time, so no extra hay needed).

Depending on the barn setup, $10 can be a bargain. I'd be really sorry that you couldn't afford it and I'd try to work something out to help you (like moving your horse to the mare motel instead of a stall, since I didn't charge for horses on stall rest in those pens), but barns have a pretty narrow profit margin (if any) and I can't afford to pay $300 a month for your horse to be on stall rest either.

I probably would not have charged so much if the horses didn't spend so much time in the field, but they did and I figured out my board prices accordingly, without much wiggle room. I wasn't trying to gouge anyone, but I couldn't lose money on it either.

And I probably wouldn't have charged you for that week either. Technically I could have per my contract, but I didn't add fees on unless it was long-term stall rest. I also generally did not charge for administering medications while horses were on stall rest, even though I did other times, because I was aware that most people will have a little trouble paying for all that. I'm not wealthy myself and I totally understand, but because I'm not wealthy I also can't just absorb those costs.

Burbank
Mar. 20, 2012, 05:05 PM
tough

when my horse was on stall rest I was not charged extra, I did come out 95% of the days and changed his bandages and washed his cuts and while out always picked his stall

however as long as he had a rotating buddy he was happy as a clam on stall rest and didn't run through extra shavings

maybe ask her to start covering the cost of shavings and to pick the stall when out as an in between re cost and labor if the mare is really wrecking her stall and churning the shavings

casper324
Mar. 20, 2012, 06:06 PM
If stall rest is needed I do charge more for the extra labor/hay during a stall rest, 5.00 per day. I outline what is included in board in my boarding contract for example, 8 bags of shavings a month. With shavings costing 6.50 a bag they can't be unlimited so the boarder would be responsible for amount of shavings above what is included. Now if the boarder was helping out with labor or working in some way to give me more me time, I'd be more then willing to work with them.


The key to any relationship is give and take along with a dose of respect

tradewind
Mar. 20, 2012, 06:28 PM
I am eternally grateful I board where I do..No one ever has to pay extra for stall rest...

Herbie19
Mar. 20, 2012, 07:14 PM
We charge $5/day when a horse needs to be left in for whatever reason. This covers extra hay, bedding, and stall cleaning. Anything else (handwalking, soaking, etc.) is billed out at a rate of $10/hr plus supplies. There is no charge for wrapping/bandaging (other than supplies) or administration of med (oral and/or injectable).


If I were a BO, I would charge extra for a horse on prolonged stall rest (longer than ~10 days) because of the extra labor and supplies. That being said, some of the additional charges being quoted in this thread look astronomical, IMO! An extra $300/month of board?

That's $10/day. Not that far off the mark in some areas. I'm wondering if you have ever managed a barn? The $5/day we charge is ACTUAL COST for the horse being left in. We certainly don't mind pitching in a few minutes here and there to give meds or pick out a stall again, but it's ridiculous to think that we should foot the bill of a horse's layup.

starrunner
Mar. 20, 2012, 07:25 PM
Those that bill extra for stall rest, is that on top of the typical board? Since board is due on the first of the month, then do you ask for an additional say $10/day or $7/day or whatever on top of the $10/day already charged or is it accordingly adjusted?

That question was probably clear as mud, LOL.

I know at one boarding barn I was at, the BO was lovely and willing to help as long as the boarder helped out in return. No extra charge and just asked to help pick out the horse's stall and usually did a few other chores, etc to help mitigate the extra labor and cost.

Wayside
Mar. 20, 2012, 08:13 PM
One thing I forgot to mention earlier is that it may be easier for a larger barn with good budgeting to absorb the cost of stall rest horses. I'm not currently a BM (thank goodness :lol:), but when I was managing a large stable, it was reasonable to set an average board rate that assumed there would be a few horses left in every day. And it's not like we had tons of horses on stall rest. Inevitably, some were from time to time, but people would also want horses left in for the farrier, or the vet, or so they wouldn't have to go out and get them for lessons, or so they wouldn't get dirty before a show, or because Dobbin told the animal communicator he didn't feel like going out on Tuesday.

So it was sort of like everyone was paying into a communal stall rest fund, and then everyone could leave their horses in as needed without incurring unexpected expenses. Just like how everyone splits facility costs like lights, regardless of who uses them the most.

But that's certainly not the only way to handle the situation, and it might make more sense for a lot of people to pay a lower base board rate, and then only pay for extra services as needed.

mpsbarnmanager
Mar. 20, 2012, 08:22 PM
In your case, I don't think I'd let her keep the one same horse beside her. For his own sake. Can you switch them up? Do you have others that would enjoy a day inside munching hay?

Well, the other gelding is hers too, and my mare is very pregnant and I like her to go out and stretch during the day. All the other horses are boarders.

mpsbarnmanager
Mar. 20, 2012, 08:31 PM
I also generally did not charge for administering medications while horses were on stall rest, even though I did other times, because I was aware that most people will have a little trouble paying for all that. I'm not wealthy myself and I totally understand, but because I'm not wealthy I also can't just absorb those costs.

Great post, Cos. I forgot to add that I also go back out to the barn at noon to give her a mid-day dose of ace.

Puddin Pie
Mar. 20, 2012, 08:36 PM
I am eternally grateful that my BO did not charge for stall rest when my guy was up for a LONG time with a torn suspensory. I did come out and clean his stall daily, so that the barn was only cleaning 1x a day, which they would have done anyway. And bought bagged shavings when the sawdust ran low (they can get free sawdust at the mill), and helped clean the rest of the stalls in the barn too.

I know he was a huge burden on them, but again, I am very grateful that she did not charge me more-though I would have paid it without complaint. She also was willing to let us set up hot tape, small stall paddocks, once he was cleared for limited turnout. Again, I picked out those paddocks and tried to make it as easy on everyone as I could.

mpsbarnmanager
Mar. 20, 2012, 08:41 PM
. I'm not currently a BM (thank goodness :lol:), Inevitably, some were from time to time, but people would also want horses left in for the farrier, or the vet, or so they wouldn't have to go out and get them for lessons, or so they wouldn't get dirty before a show, or because Dobbin told the animal communicator he didn't feel like going out on Tuesday.
.

:lol::lol::lol: Oh ya, I can tell you have been a BM, haahaha!

LAZ
Mar. 20, 2012, 09:02 PM
I don't, but I am seriously considering adding a clause to my boarding agreement after having one in for 5 months & one in, on and off, for 6 months.

It does cost extra--hay, bedding, manure removal & more wear & tear on the stall. I go through an extra $7 bale per day for those two & an extra $2/day in shavings/cleaning costs. And then if the boarder "requests" more, additional care such as injectable drugs or specific turnout, well, boarder attitude is everything.... Someone who EXPECTS me to go the extra mile versus someone that appreciates it & reciprocates is much more likely to get a bill.

Hinderella
Mar. 20, 2012, 09:26 PM
You're within your rights to charge extra, although it may feel awkward to bring it up now, after not charging extra for so long. The HO is probably feeling overwhlemed, but ak her what she can do to help. I've had two horses on stall rest in recent years, for months at a time. Both times I cleaned my won stall twice a day, bought my own bedding (I did like peat moss), hung extra water buckets and administered my own meds.
I was lucky, I board at a busy lesson barn, so both horses had plenty to see and do all day, so they didn't pace or become destructive. And e eryone in the barn new they were welcome to stop by to visit the mares and cheer hem up (without worrying about others "touching my horse"...sorry, I couldn't resist)
I hope you and the owner can come up with something you can both live.

pony4me
Mar. 20, 2012, 09:43 PM
My horse is on stall rest, and I know it costs the barn more in hay and bedding, but they do not charge more, and to my knowledge have not charged anyone more. To be fair to them, I'm paying for the staff to hand walk him daily, and when he starts back under saddle, I asked that he switch to full training board for the first month. The barn has the staff to do the ace injection and daily walk sessions, and can do it at a time that's quiet and convenient for them.

mg
Mar. 20, 2012, 10:19 PM
That's $10/day. Not that far off the mark in some areas. I'm wondering if you have ever managed a barn? The $5/day we charge is ACTUAL COST for the horse being left in. We certainly don't mind pitching in a few minutes here and there to give meds or pick out a stall again, but it's ridiculous to think that we should foot the bill of a horse's layup.

I have not managed a barn, but I do have several horses at home, so I am well aware of costs of supplies. I've also worked at enough barns and taken care of enough stall rested horses to know what goes into the daily care of a horse and how stall rest differs from that. I do not think barn owners should "foot the bill" of a stall rested horse; I just said I thought $10/day sounded high. I do not think of administration of meds, bandaging, etc. as part of stall rest--those are separate charges (IME and IMO).

I think my boarding situations differ from many here since pasture is not used as a main forage source for 80% of the year. Therefore, stalled horses are not eating any more hay in the stall than they would in a pasture.

CosMonster
Mar. 20, 2012, 10:36 PM
I have not managed a barn, but I do have several horses at home, so I am well aware of costs of supplies. I've also worked at enough barns and taken care of enough stall rested horses to know what goes into the daily care of a horse and how stall rest differs from that. I do not think barn owners should "foot the bill" of a stall rested horse; I just said I thought $10/day sounded high. I do not think of administration of meds, bandaging, etc. as part of stall rest--those are separate charges (IME and IMO).

I think my boarding situations differ from many here since pasture is not used as a main forage source for 80% of the year. Therefore, stalled horses are not eating any more hay in the stall than they would in a pasture.

Costs definitely vary. It's cheaper for me to keep horses where I am now, so if I was running a boarding stable I probably wouldn't charge as much. But when I was charging that, it really did just cover my actual costs (average costs, anyway). I wasn't making any money off of stall rest. ;)

I could have also probably found cheaper supplies if I was left to my own devices, but I was just managing the place. I had mostly free rein, but the BO didn't want to switch from the suppliers she'd been using for decades. Couldn't blame her for that, so it was what it was. They weren't ripping us off or anything, just not necessarily the least expensive for the quality.


One thing I forgot to mention earlier is that it may be easier for a larger barn with good budgeting to absorb the cost of stall rest horses. I'm not currently a BM (thank goodness :lol:), but when I was managing a large stable, it was reasonable to set an average board rate that assumed there would be a few horses left in every day. And it's not like we had tons of horses on stall rest. Inevitably, some were from time to time, but people would also want horses left in for the farrier, or the vet, or so they wouldn't have to go out and get them for lessons, or so they wouldn't get dirty before a show, or because Dobbin told the animal communicator he didn't feel like going out on Tuesday.

So it was sort of like everyone was paying into a communal stall rest fund, and then everyone could leave their horses in as needed without incurring unexpected expenses. Just like how everyone splits facility costs like lights, regardless of who uses them the most.

But that's certainly not the only way to handle the situation, and it might make more sense for a lot of people to pay a lower base board rate, and then only pay for extra services as needed.

Yeah, my barn had to have pretty low prices to stay competitive because we didn't have an indoor arena in an area with pretty harsh winters. If we'd charged enough to be able to absorb those costs, we would have had trouble attracting boarders in the first place. For us, it was better to keep the normal board low but charge extra for anything that required additional work or supplies. Since most of our boarders were fairly casual riders, we didn't generally have to do a lot of extras. We did a lot of "nickle and diming" (according to a lot of people on COTH anyway ;)) but it was somewhat intentional. It was primarily a breeding farm and in addition to managing the boarding stable I was training and showing the young stock, so I didn't want boarders who needed a lot of personalized care (as in, different from the average horse at that barn--of course I paid attention to each individual!).

Definitely there are different ways to work it, and there's really not a right or wrong way. It just depends what works for the BO and the customers they're trying to attract and retain.

Wayside
Mar. 20, 2012, 11:26 PM
:lol::lol::lol: Oh ya, I can tell you have been a BM, haahaha!

:lol: Yeah, I don't think I could make up stories that were as weird as the real thing. Truth in the boarding barn really is stranger than fiction :lol:

Donkey
Mar. 20, 2012, 11:49 PM
My horse has been in a stall for the last 5 months. I pay an extra $5 a day which seems fair.

She is in alone, so no buddy. She doesn't get any extra hay, actually less than pre-injury since extra weight gain wouldn't be good.

She does get half her daytime hay in a slow feed hay-net so that is extra labour. Someone has to clean her daytime stall but they don't have to clean her paddock, so a bit more labour there plus some extra shavings. No bandages, no medications, no hand walking etc.

I think you also have to consider additional labour if a horse is a handful - if it needs special handling by someone experienced and willing to take on the risk. That is also worth something in my book and would be willing to pay extra for the peace of mind of having someone experienced handling a fresh and frisky stall bound horse. Fortunately my horse has not had behavioural issues (knock on wood!)

If I had to I would pay more. When this all started I wouldn't have been surprised if I was asked to find another facility. Some people just can't handle the idea of a horse on stall rest. I think my BO is one of them and was prepared for having to leave but she was willing to try it out and thankfully my mare has been very easy going about the whole thing.

ETA - if my horse needed a buddy inside with her then I would expect to pay 2x the fee, it would only seem fair! The fee wasn't in the boarding contract it's what the BO decided the time and expenses were worth when the situation started.

Simbalism
Mar. 21, 2012, 01:01 AM
I know they do after three days at the barn where I board, just can't remember how much it is. (my horse is on pasture board). I know a couple of people who had to stall rest their horses and commented on the expense.

RedRogue
Mar. 21, 2012, 02:06 AM
I've only skim read replies here, so sorry if this idea is a repeat.

If her horse being on stall rest, you figure costs you an extra $7/day (2-Bedding and 5-labour). However she comes to walk her horse daily, it seems like this might be the type of situation where you could offer her the opportunity to clean the stall the extra 1X per day (rather than you/your staff). This would only increase her cost by $2/day.

Explain yourself the way that you have here. It is understandably an uncomfortable situation for all involved (including the horse!), however, I'm confident a solution is quite possible.

PS I would certainly consider the second companion horse in the same regard as the other.

Tapperjockey
Mar. 21, 2012, 04:33 AM
My horse has been in a stall for the last 5 months. I pay an extra $5 a day which seems fair.

She is in alone, so no buddy. She doesn't get any extra hay, actually less than pre-injury since extra weight gain wouldn't be good.

She does get half her daytime hay in a slow feed hay-net so that is extra labour. Someone has to clean her daytime stall but they don't have to clean her paddock, so a bit more labour there plus some extra shavings. No bandages, no medications, no hand walking etc.

I think you also have to consider additional labour if a horse is a handful - if it needs special handling by someone experienced and willing to take on the risk. That is also worth something in my book and would be willing to pay extra for the peace of mind of having someone experienced handling a fresh and frisky stall bound horse. Fortunately my horse has not had behavioural issues (knock on wood!)

If I had to I would pay more. When this all started I wouldn't have been surprised if I was asked to find another facility. Some people just can't handle the idea of a horse on stall rest. I think my BO is one of them and was prepared for having to leave but she was willing to try it out and thankfully my mare has been very easy going about the whole thing.

ETA - if my horse needed a buddy inside with her then I would expect to pay 2x the fee, it would only seem fair! The fee wasn't in the boarding contract it's what the BO decided the time and expenses were worth when the situation started.

My last barn was like that. It wasn't really set up for lay-ups. If it was more than a month of stall rest being needed, the BO would give notice they'd have to move. There was a daily fee for having them in as well. In the summer he barely fed any hay and all horses were out pretty much 24/7 (fed grain individually obviously, but that's it). Even in the winter, most were out at least 16 hrs/day. His teen sons used to use the 4 wheeler and a trailer to pick manure out of the pastures, as he rotated them (they didn't go in the pastures with horses in them with the 4-wheeler), and they were whinier about doing stalls as well.. so he really really really didn't like to do stall rest.

briddygirl
Mar. 21, 2012, 08:29 AM
Last year I had a boarder who had a horse on stall rest -- I didn't charge anything extra......but boy, did I learn! Next time, if I have a horse on stall rest, I will have to charge extra. It was a lot of extra work for me -- instead of cleaning 1x/day it was 2 -- and boy did I go through a LOT of shavings & hay......wrapping legs, etc. --- then once turn out was allowed I agreed to make a small, temporary pen within the field so she could get some "exercise" w/o running and chancing another injury......yes, I'm a pushover (according to my daughters)--I don't think many other barns would have put up with her requests............but I learned and will have a plan in place for future requests!

Belg
Mar. 21, 2012, 08:33 AM
Depends on the expectations, the horse, and the human. We're not really set up for it... so it's pretty much case by case... so far, only two cases. And one of them was my horse.

Bacardi1
Mar. 21, 2012, 02:18 PM
Cutting in now & asking her to pay is kind of tacky. It's not her fault that you didn't have a policy re: this in place beforehand. If I were you, I'd eat this one, but definitely put a written policy in place for future boarders.

But to be honest? I wouldn't charge for something like this. It's the way of the world & the way of boarding. To nitpik the extra shavings/pickouts for a sick/lame horse? Frankly, I'd be moving. Boarding barns around here are a dime a dozen, & for one to start charging extra because my horse became lame/injured/sick & had to spend more time in a stall I was already paying for? Buh-bye.

Alagirl
Mar. 21, 2012, 02:21 PM
Cutting in now & asking her to pay is kind of tacky. It's not her fault that you didn't have a policy re: this in place beforehand. If I were you, I'd eat this one, but definitely put a written policy in place for future boarders.

Probably the way I'd go.

CHT
Mar. 21, 2012, 02:59 PM
Cutting in now & asking her to pay is kind of tacky. It's not her fault that you didn't have a policy re: this in place beforehand. If I were you, I'd eat this one, but definitely put a written policy in place for future boarders.

But to be honest? I wouldn't charge for something like this. It's the way of the world & the way of boarding. To nitpik the extra shavings/pickouts for a sick/lame horse? Frankly, I'd be moving. Boarding barns around here are a dime a dozen, & for one to start charging extra because my horse became lame/injured/sick & had to spend more time in a stall I was already paying for? Buh-bye.

I don't think a horse having to be on stall rest for a long time is "the way of the world & the way of boarding". I have had my stable open for over 7 years, and only two horses on long term stall rest; one was mine and one was a horse that came from another barn that didn't offer stall rest. (knock wood)

I could see at a high level show barn it being more normal, or a barn that only turns out 1-2 hours a day it being not a legitamate extra burden, but for a more casual barn like mine, where the horse's go out 8-9 hours a day, it does represent significant extra cost, and the stall rest is likely beyond the scope of what is offered in the original boarding agreement and so represents a new arrangement, and therefore a new cost.

I think this post touches a bit of a nerve as I often find myself struggling with billing; I feel sorry for someone whose horse is hurt, so don't want to add to their bills...but why should that be my burden?

atr
Mar. 21, 2012, 03:17 PM
I think for long term stall rest I'd expect to pay a little extra, though I haven't been asked in the past.

But as far as companionship goes, we've usually got a fatso around that could benefit from not being turned out all day wearing a muzzle, who gets to come in and be neighborly.

onelanerode
Mar. 21, 2012, 03:38 PM
The mare is a total nutjob in her stall, pacing,screaming, sweating to the point that owner decided to leave her other gelding in with the mare, 24 hours a day. Poor boy. The mare is also on a VERY strong combo of ace, reserpine, obviously to calm her, to pretty much no avail. So she TRASHES her stall every. Single. Day.

This is really more of an observation than anything, but if the mare is really that worked up in her stall every day, then that defeats the purpose of stall rest. She may be calmer outside in a small pen/round pen/paddock where she can't tear around but she can see her buddies and feel less isolated.

As a BM, you may be able to float that idea to the owner by expressing your concern about how trashed the mare's stall is and therefore how much moving she's doing all day, much of that repetitive movement and not natural movement. It also sounds like the mare is rather stressed out, and that can impede healing as well.

Sure, ideally, the mare would be on stall rest, her movement would be limited, and she'd heal, but she hasn't read the book and isn't playing nice even with sedation. IMHO, the owner should consult with her vet and see if it's worth trying alternate accommodations that may make the mare happier and quieter (and thus more likely to heal).

Just a thought.

relocatedTXjumpr
Mar. 21, 2012, 03:46 PM
I have been at my barn since September of 2011 and starting in April my horse will be on stall rest for 6 to 8 weeks. My BO said she will not charge me extra, which is nice.

I had a mare on stall rest for 3 weeks at my old barn...I came in the morning and cleaned her stall myself, hand walked her, and came back in the evening to administer meds and picked her stall again...I was charged $100 extra a month.

trubandloki
Mar. 21, 2012, 04:03 PM
My horse has been on stall rest more times than I care to count. I have never had to pay extra for it.

Some places charge an extra fee for daily turn out. Some places charge an extra fee for stall rest.
There is no cookie cutter answer.

Chief2
Mar. 21, 2012, 05:37 PM
Alternatively, until this gets covered in an updated contract, you could offer the boarder a choice: Either she adds in a few bags of shavings each week and picks out the stall nightly herself, or she pays an additional daily fee for increased cleaning time and bedding supplies. The situation as is currently stands cannot continue. Then, get your contract updated asap to prevent this from occurring again in the future.

Jaideux
Mar. 21, 2012, 05:46 PM
Can you ask the boarder to do the horse's stall when she comes down each day for the hand walking? And, at the same time, to re-bed for the night she should use shavings she supplies.

And, I would definitely see if there is a way you can create a turnout situation for this horse- maybe a round pen? http://www.corrals2go.com/corrals-2-go-price-list They aren't cheap, and certainly aren't as ideal as a permanent fenced area, but if you (or the boarder) are going to be spending a couple hundred keep the horse and a friend in a stall 24/7, you might as well spend that couple hundred on something that gets the horse outside. Maybe you could even find something used for less on your local craigslist!

Or fence off a section of an existing (low-key) pasture with some electrical tape?

I know this lady has other bills, and that really, really sucks. But something's gotta give for this horse. And, as a person who has to pay attention to the bottom line in my own life, I would be VERY happy to trade physical labor in place of extra fees. Does she have the time to help out around the barn, doing some other chores to help balance out the cost? Some BOs would benefit from having help, others have their barn set up so efficiently and don't have a ton of horses, so having outside help for stalls, turn in, etc, is more trouble than help for the BO.

Marshfield
Mar. 21, 2012, 06:08 PM
Crike!

In your spot, I'd do my very best to keep from adding to this owner's misery. Between the time and money involved for F*ck All of enjoyment of her riding horses, surely she's suffering enough.

It sounds like it really does cost more. If so, do your costing, give your HO (horse owner) a heads up that, say, beginning in April you and she need to make a plan for continued stall rest so that you don't lose your shirt via the extra bedding and labor.

We don't always get to actually ride our horses. Why should the BO be penalized financially for the horse owner's lousy luck. Since boarding is often break even at best, this poor BO is probably essentially paying for the privilege of caring for this stall bound horse. My guy is home now, but I would certainly expect to pay more for care of a stall bound horse. This does presume horse is at boarding barn typical in my area where the horses are out anywhere from 8 to 12 hours a day. If the horse were living at a barn where the horse is lucky to get 1 to 2 hours of turnout a day, then probably wouldn't expect stall rest to cost more

The last time Nick was on stall rest, I was changing his bandage daily so I'd clean his stall when I went out to change his bandage.

czgm7r
Mar. 21, 2012, 09:58 PM
I'm am so lucky that I was never charged for stall rest when my horse was burned in a barn fire and then broke his coffin bone. That was Aug. to June. There was never any mention of that. The owners, even though I didn't ask them, walked the horse and provided a hay bag. They created a paddock just for him for the first days out. All at their own expense - i never asked them for this. --- I feel like l live in a different world.

On the one hand I understand about not incurring more expense but on the other hand you increase hay and usually decrease grain. You also are not doing turnout(a service which usually is included in board) and she is not using the facilities(also included in board - lights use of arenas etc.). Your getting paid for work your NOT doing and replacing it with other work.

Having been in her shoes, think about this - this person is probably going through one of the worst times of her life and adding cost is just sticking the knife in that much deeper. Those unlimited funds might be being put on a credit card. Sometimes what we do is called 'paying it forward'.

Maybe ask her to pick the stall while she is there. But I think it would do more for your business and your own heart to actually have some empathy for her plight and put the horse first. If you are not financially able then you might ask her to leave. If you did this however, I as a boarder would lose respect for you and leave as well.

ex-racer owner
Mar. 21, 2012, 10:26 PM
I am so grateful that my BO did not charge me extra for my last horse's seven months of stall rest! I did ask her if she needed to charge me more and she said no, but I would bring out my own shavings to help stretch what I receive per our boarding contract. Since I was going out everyday to handwalk or graze him, I would clean my stall in the evenings, to lessen the load of the daytime stall cleaner and to sure my horse had the best possible environment, since he was stuck in it for most of the day.

She had another horse in recovering from a surgical procedure at the same time as mine, and that horse went through way more bedding and hay than my horse ever did! Stall trashed daily and the horse inhaled the hay as soon as it was put in front of him! I never asked, but I wouldn't have been surprised if she was charging them extra- it was a track horse and the owners and the trainer never came out....

Milocalwinnings
Mar. 22, 2012, 11:35 AM
Since you told her you wouldn't charge her, then I would not do so for THIS TIME AROUND. If she turns mare out and mare injures herself again and needs more stall rest, then I would inform her that she will have to be charged extra.

I would not, however, allow her to keep her gelding inside for free. Tell her that she is more than welcome to have her gelding inside if that's what she wants, but that she will be required to pay the stall board rate.

AnotherRound
Mar. 22, 2012, 12:15 PM
If I am correct, she paying board for this horse and you are not providing any of your facilities for free. I assume that stall and turnout, rings, lights, maintenance of property, food, grain, possibly worming, who knows what, is covered by her board.

She is paying her board.

If I pay for such board, I would presume that mucking twice a day is covered in the board, and this should be how the lease is designed. Even if it isn't specifically stated, providing stall board includes bedding and mucking, unless agreed otherwise. So if you have a horse in the stall and have to muck it twice a day and provide a certain amount of bedding do so and don't complain. If you find the horse needs the stall cleaned more often, if the horse is using more than the usual bedding, needs an additional feeding of hay, it is entirely reasonable to ask the boarder to pay for those extras. The Extras. Not the usual.

I agree with the above poster who pointed out that the horse is not using your pastures (with the attendant maintenance needed) and your costs for fence repairs, night time lights, personnel for pasture care, use of the ring, jumps, whatever general costs out of the stall the horse uses, you are getting her money for those things for nothing, so to me the extra stall costs would even things out.

However, it is entirely reasonable to ask her what she wants to do about the extra mucking, and extra bedding used, see if she wants to pay for that or do it herself. Meanwhile, I can hardly see what problems it is for you to have a horse in the stall.

If the horse in the stall is hard for you to manage behaviour wise, then you should work with the owner to find solutions to the horse's behaviour problems. Sometimes a horse's behaviour disrupts a small barn and can't be managed there, but in general I have never encountered a barn where only healthy sound animals are allowed to pay board and injured ones have to leave.

Personally, if I was this boarder I would find a layup facility for the horse, where they were better suited to handle my horse during rehab, and possibly at less cost in board, and with handlers better trained to manage her, if it looks to be so long term. However, since you are not responsible for bandaging her, administering medications, hosing the horse, walking it, etc. I wouldn't be so put out as the OP seems to be, here.

Marshfield
Mar. 22, 2012, 09:48 PM
I'm amazed at how many people seem to think the BO should just be eating the cost of the horse being on extended stall rest. I just don't see anything wrong with BO going to Ms HO and saying kindly that "Ms Horseowner, I haven't charged you anything additional for Pookie to be on stall rest. I've reviewed the my expenses and having her on stall rest is costing an extra X per month. Therefore, I either need to charge you an extra X per month starting April 1st or you will need to start providing additional bedding and hay as well as cleaning the stall every night" Especially seems appropriate if the owner is given the choice of ponying labor or cash. Sure the horse eats less grain, but we all know that hay-which this horse is now getting extra of-is the expensive part of feeding. How many times have we seen the threads about horses not being fed ad lib hay. I get that the HO is spending extra right now, but with boarding stables run on such slim margins it's nice if the BO doesn't charge extra, but it shouldn't be the expectation.

Fairview Horse Center
Mar. 22, 2012, 11:55 PM
Here are some numbers for my barn:

Regular boarded horse goes thru about $15 of sawdust per month. Stall rest horse goes thru at least $100 sawdust per month.

Summer time, the regular boarded horses may only be eating 1 or even 1/2 a flake of hay per day. Winter time, more. Stall rest horse may eat from 1/2 a bale to a full bale per day.

So hay costs go from $.50 - $3.00 / day to $4.00 - $7.00 per day, or about an extra $120/month

Less grain reduces that a bit, so maybe $30 less.

With these numbers, a stall rested horse costs me about $175/month more than if on regular turnout.

Adding in at least an extra 15 minutes per day of labor, now it is costing me $250 more EACH month of stall rest. My board is only $375. At that rate, the horse is costing every cent of their board check just in supplies.

a 2nd horse for company?!?!

I am totally willing to eat the extra costs for a week or so, but that kind of added cost just can't keep going.

Run the numbers, and then sit down with your boarder and show them what is happening.

SMF11
Mar. 23, 2012, 08:02 AM
I agree with the above poster who pointed out that the horse is not using your pastures (with the attendant maintenance needed)

My pastures need to be maintained no matter how many horses are using them, so it is not a savings necessarily to have one horse not on the fields.

I think it really depends what the barns are set up to do. If horses are in a lot, it is not a much bigger additional expense for a BO. If horses are normally out a lot (or in my case, out 24/7) then it is a HUGE change, and HUGE increase in costs.

If it is much more expensive for the OP, my approach would be to give the boarder a certain period of stall rest at no charge, and then charge more. Ideally this would be discussed ahead of time, but in this case, I would sit down with the boarder, and say "I've run the numbers, and I'm going to need to increase the stall rest charge. I know I told you your horse could be in at no extra charge, so I won't start charging this fee for X days/weeks. I'll understand if you'd rather move your horse to a lay up facility."

SaddleFitterVA
Mar. 23, 2012, 08:05 AM
I'm not set up for stall rest, which means when it is MY horse, it sucks, I end up having to keep 2 horses inside, rotating through the other horses.

When it is a boarded horse? I would either need to charge extra or suggest a layup facility for the duration of the stall rest.

red mares
Mar. 23, 2012, 08:25 AM
If I am correct, she paying board for this horse and you are not providing any of your facilities for free. I assume that stall and turnout, rings, lights, maintenance of property, food, grain, possibly worming, who knows what, is covered by her board.

She is paying her board.

If I pay for such board, I would presume that mucking twice a day is covered in the board, and this should be how the lease is designed. Even if it isn't specifically stated, providing stall board includes bedding and mucking, unless agreed otherwise. So if you have a horse in the stall and have to muck it twice a day and provide a certain amount of bedding do so and don't complain. If you find the horse needs the stall cleaned more often, if the horse is using more than the usual bedding, needs an additional feeding of hay, it is entirely reasonable to ask the boarder to pay for those extras. The Extras. Not the usual.

I agree with the above poster who pointed out that the horse is not using your pastures (with the attendant maintenance needed) and your costs for fence repairs, night time lights, personnel for pasture care, use of the ring, jumps, whatever general costs out of the stall the horse uses, you are getting her money for those things for nothing, so to me the extra stall costs would even things out.



I've presented this logic before, even pointing out that the extra time to pick a stall is equal to the time required to turn out/bring in the horse from the field. Most of the BO's I've had don't think the same way, which is why I left.

retrofit
Mar. 23, 2012, 08:25 AM
I'm a boarder, and I would expect to pay for stall rest - for the extra materials & labor. I have typically paid $3-5/day. If I had a horse that needed a ton of hay in front of him at all times, I would expect it to be more. I would be thrilled just to get a small break for cleaning the stall that 2nd time, but I wouldn't expect it.

A lot of boarders complain about "getting nickeled and dimed" when surcharges are applied. To me, it's simply paying for the time, materials, & services you are using, whether it's holding for the farrier, extra blanket changes, or stall rest. I guess I have a different perspective than most boarders since I've done a lot of barn work in the past.

LauraKY
Mar. 23, 2012, 08:40 AM
Cutting in now & asking her to pay is kind of tacky. It's not her fault that you didn't have a policy re: this in place beforehand. If I were you, I'd eat this one, but definitely put a written policy in place for future boarders.

But to be honest? I wouldn't charge for something like this. It's the way of the world & the way of boarding. To nitpik the extra shavings/pickouts for a sick/lame horse? Frankly, I'd be moving. Boarding barns around here are a dime a dozen, & for one to start charging extra because my horse became lame/injured/sick & had to spend more time in a stall I was already paying for? Buh-bye.

In other words, even though you know how thin the profit margin is on horse boarding, you think the BO should lose money because your Dobbin is sick or lame?

You're paying for a stall, a certain amount of labor, a certain amount of hay, feed and grain. I'm fairly certain there is no boarding barn that can charge a reasonable fee while supplying those in unlimited amounts. You expect the BO to just eat the extra cost, I assume.

CosMonster
Mar. 23, 2012, 07:42 PM
I've presented this logic before, even pointing out that the extra time to pick a stall is equal to the time required to turn out/bring in the horse from the field. Most of the BO's I've had don't think the same way, which is why I left.

But it isn't always equal at all. At my barn, I had different people to clean the stalls and do turnout. The girls doing turnout were also grooming for me and were paid a daily salary; the girls doing stalls were paid per stall. So it actually did cost me extra to pay the girls to clean the stall twice (since again, horses were usually out for 10-12 hours so we only cleaned once a day). Even if I hadn't had it set up like that, we usually brought the horses out in groups and it didn't take nearly the same amount of time to lead them out to the turnouts as it would to move the horse to crossties and back twice, plus cleaning the stall an extra time.

Turnout and ring maintenance are about the same whether there are 9 horses using them or 10 (for example). OTOH, stall-bound horses can be very destructive to their stalls, especially if they have dirt floors as mine did.

It really is more work for many barns to keep a horse in than to turn him out.



A lot of boarders complain about "getting nickeled and dimed" when surcharges are applied. To me, it's simply paying for the time, materials, & services you are using, whether it's holding for the farrier, extra blanket changes, or stall rest. I guess I have a different perspective than most boarders since I've done a lot of barn work in the past.

Yeah, so many people don't want to pay enough board to cover these costs or even pay most BOs a decent salary, but also complain when surcharges are added to cover additional expenses that are incurred. It kind of boggles my mind how many people seem to want BOs to subsidize their horse hobby.