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janedoe726
Mar. 17, 2012, 04:00 PM
How do you get enough protein? I'm currently working with a personal trainer and trying to boost my protein intake. I'm currently drinking 2 protein shakes a day and sometimes a protein bar, but looking for ideas....

CosMonster
Mar. 17, 2012, 04:11 PM
I've never had a problem. I snack on nuts throughout the day, eat tofu in a decent amount of meals and have eggs for breakfast most days, and I seem to get plenty of protein. I don't really track my intake but I run several times a week, ride at least 3-4 horses a day and usually spend at least two days a week shoeing horses for at least 8 hours and usually more like 10-12.

Are you needing extra protein for some reason? 2 protein shakes and a bar plus a general balanced diet seems like a lot.

MistyBlue
Mar. 17, 2012, 04:12 PM
I'm a carnivore...but:

Legumes are the way to go for highest proteins I think. Beans...soy are the highest but a high soy diet isn't for everyone.

Also navy, pinto, garbanzo beans...etc...all pretty high up there in protein.

Then nuts and seeds are also good. Not as high as beans, but still good sources. Peanuts are the highest...although they're really a legume. Also high in fat, but not bad fats. Then I think pistacchios and almonds are the next highest protein nuts. Also pumpkin seeds...mmmm. Flax seed is high protein. I've heard hemp seed is high in protein...most hemp I've ever had personal experience with does get you high. :winkgrin: But didn't have protein. :cool: I think the hemp seed is different.

Also try whole wheat pasta. A cup of that has 9 g protein. That with some tomato marinara and beans...nice meal and loaded with non meat proteins.

Bacardi1
Mar. 17, 2012, 04:15 PM
I'm not a vegetarian, but have friends who are.

All I can say is that your question alone is extremely frightening. People dedicated to their health via vegetarianism spend a LOT of time researching to make absolutely sure they maintain a balanced diet - obviously including complete proteins.

Unfortunately, "protein shakes" & "protein bars" don't cut it for a healthy diet. I don't know your "personal trainer", but if he/she is influencing your diet decisions here, they should be fired, because they obviously don't know anything about diet. (I can only assume that they're the ones selling you their diet products?)

If you're dedicated to a vegetarian diet, you need to heavily RESEARCH both reliable sources AND your physician (which is not a dirty word), in order to make sure you're getting all the nutrients you need to be healthy.

The word "Vegetarian" doesn't automaticall equal "Healthy".

Frizzle
Mar. 17, 2012, 04:20 PM
Quinoa, beans, tofu, eggs (on occasion), etc. I've been a vegetarian most of my life and have never had a problem getting enough protein.

Bluey
Mar. 17, 2012, 04:21 PM
Not a vegetarian, but always a very light meat eater.
I too was told, after keeping a food diary for a month, that I needed to up the protein.

One important question is the quality of the protein, be sure whatever you eat will add to the whole complement of aminoacids humans thrive with, that not all protein sources have.

There should be some credible vegetarian websites explaining how to balance protein sources so as to get sufficient of all necessary kinds.
Of course, the less extreme vegetarian you are, the more "other" you accept, the easier it is to find sources already providing all aminoacids in them, dairy and eggs good ones for that.

Protein can be a limiting factor in your health and fitness progress if you are short on it in your diet.

RockstarPony
Mar. 17, 2012, 04:25 PM
Don't worry about it too much! I've read that most Americans get way more protein than is needed. I think if you're conscious of it, you'll definitely get enough. I usually just try to have something with nuts or dairy in it for every meal, and I've never had problems; usually a glass of milk and/or peanut butter or something works out fine, and my mom really likes chocolate soy milk after a workout. Whole wheat has protein & is usually healthier in general & easy to substitute in recipes, so that's a good one. If you're still worried about it I would go over it with your doctor just in case.

jumpingmaya
Mar. 17, 2012, 04:25 PM
I 2nd quinoa and beans.
If it wasn't for my protein shakes (Vega- love it)... I'd probably be dead but nothing to do with being vegetarian or not... just a LOT of food allergies/ intolerance...

FLeventer
Mar. 17, 2012, 04:36 PM
I have been a vegetarian since I was 7, but I have not eaten red meat since I was younger before I can even remember. My parents did not eat it, and I did not eat it. I still have not. Anyways, when I was 11 I started feeling weaker and really sickly. I started doing research on diets/nutrition to help me with getting some energy.

I had blood work done and I was lacking a lot of things that would make me healthy. I started on vitamins to help me balance things out.

I also started to eat fish again which helped a lot to keep the energy up. I really tried to stay away from consuming a ton of soy because of the effects on the hormones and I really did not want that while I was developing as a teen. I eat more now, but definitely in controlled portions.

I do morning home made fruit shakes with yogurt and whey powder. I also eat some almonds and free range eggs if I have a packed day. I will not buy eggs from the grocery store anymore.

Lunch is usually fish on salad with chick peas and nuts. I bring a lot of stuff from home for lunches and rarely eat out.

Snacks are hummus and celery, fruit, Peanut butter and celery, walnuts/almonds and yogurt, and soy beans. Almost all my snacks help me get some extra protein. I really hate wasting my calories on something that does not help me though the day.

Dinner I make usually with fish, beans, and veggies. I do pastas, but when I do that I try and mix some protein in with it. I throw some soy "beef" in the sauce. I also do soups in a crockpot with beans. I make a super good black bean soup.

A lot of it is planning your meals before you shop. Also a lot is what helps you and what you like. I hate protein bars because they are full of fat and calories. Why your trainer is throwing you that way is odd to me, because many Trainers that I have worked with steer you away. Also the pre made shakes are usually junk as well and packed with calories.

There is a ton of info online as well. Changing your diet to something that is working for you and providing you with adequate nutrition will make you feel amazing.

Coanteen
Mar. 17, 2012, 04:39 PM
Nothing wrong with protein shakes - they're not "diet" products as such, nor are they inherently "unhealthy", they're just concentrated protein from various sources. You can get ones from perfectly natural sources, even vegan ones if you don't like whey. I had some Garden of Life samples that use protein from various sprouted greens, they were fine in flavor.
But then again I don't see whey protein isolate as any less natural than tofu, for example.

I also looove lentils, which have a decent protein content and are easy to make. Eggs are fantastic protein sources. Some types of grains like quinoa, as other mentioned, and legumes and nuts. Some fruits and veggies also have protein, but you'd have a eat a LOT of, for ex, kale to get a big boost ;)

MistyBlue
Mar. 17, 2012, 05:40 PM
Wait...OP is a vegetarian. Not vegan? Well then have some eggs. :D Veggies can have eggs. :yes:

Do you eat fish? or if not fish, how about bivalves? Bivalves aren't the same as fish. They don't have brains. (or blood, hence being a common food during Lent) A lot of scallops and mussels are good sources of protein...and are pretty damned tasty.

janedoe726
Mar. 17, 2012, 06:08 PM
Thanks for the concern, but my tainer is not pushing these products on me. He's just trying to find ways to me to up my protein. I've had a horrible diet for years, mainly carbs, thus the reason for a trainer and need for weight loss.

I posed this question of vegetarians, but I didn't claim to be one. Technically I'm not since I will never give up a hamburger or steak (which I eat very rarely), but I don't eat much meat at all. Hate chicken and won't touch eggs. I was just looking for alternatives.

Thank you all for the suggestions. I'm just looking for ideas!

Bacardi1
Mar. 17, 2012, 06:31 PM
Ugh - but your "trainer" doesn't seem to have a clue re: basic nutrition. Thus he shouldn't be trying to "find ways to up" your proteining. That's [bull]. Frankly - "gym/trainer" [bull]. And so common.

Lord, your post is so "in the wind". You really need to sit your butt down & do some serious research re: nutrition. It doesn't make any difference if you "hate chicken" & "won't touch eggs". Have you really sat your butt done & done ANY research at all re: serious nutrition & what your body needs to be healthy at the most basic level?

Sounds like: not.

Do yourself a HUGE favor & either consult a serious nutritionist (not some half-ass trainer - someone with a medical diploma), or at least sit your butt down & do some serious internet (or - gasp - BOOK reading) re: nutrition. Although I'd lean more towards a physician/nutritionist since I feel you're very susceptible to whatever walks down the pike claiming to be able to help you.

Coanteen
Mar. 17, 2012, 06:43 PM
Ugh - but your "trainer" doesn't seem to have a clue re: basic nutrition. Thus he shouldn't be trying to "find ways to up" your proteining. That's [bull]. Frankly - "gym/trainer" [bull]. And so common.

Lord, your post is so "in the wind". You really need to sit your butt down & do some serious research re: nutrition. It doesn't make any difference if you "hate chicken" & "won't touch eggs". Have you really sat your butt done & done ANY research at all re: serious nutrition & what your body needs to be healthy at the most basic level?

Sounds like: not.

Do yourself a HUGE favor & either consult a serious nutritionist (not some half-ass trainer - someone with a medical diploma), or at least sit your butt down & do some serious internet (or - gasp - BOOK reading) re: nutrition. Although I'd lean more towards a physician/nutritionist since I feel you're very susceptible to whatever walks down the pike claiming to be able to help you.

Bacardi, what exactly is your problem with protein powders? Whey comes from milk when curd is used for cheese - what exactly is unnatural or unhealthy about that? The bars eh, most of them include a lot of sugar, but powders?

And I find it somewhat hilarious that you're pushing doctors. Doctors have only a very basic knowledge about nutrition, because that simply isn't taught in med school (so there goes the theory that "medical diploma = any kind of education in nutrition. In case you think I'm running down docs - I am one. We're not taught nutrition beyond that you need certain minimums of fat/protein/carbs, and what carbs do in diabetes); a personal trainer is likely to have more if you're looking for nutrition specific to say building muscle, unless you go to a sports med doctor.

If OP rarely eats red meat and won't touch chicken or eggs, protein powder is a totally legit protein source. But it's good that you're exploring ways to get other, whole-food sources of protein, OP!

CosMonster
Mar. 17, 2012, 06:53 PM
I do think you might benefit from consulting with a nutritionist, OP. I've noticed a lot of personal trainers tend to push "more protein!" over anything else, when as others have said even Americans with bad diets tend to get plenty of protein. Unless you're bodybuilding or something, if you have a balanced diet you're probably getting enough, particularly since you do eat some meat.

A consultation with a nutritionist can help you make sure you're getting all the nutrients you need, not just one. Just thought I'd throw that out there since like I said, I have had some experience with personal trainers and let's just say I wouldn't trust their nutritional advice.

MistyBlue
Mar. 17, 2012, 06:55 PM
I posed this question of vegetarians, but I didn't claim to be one. Technically I'm not since I will never give up a hamburger or steak (which I eat very rarely), but I don't eat much meat at all. Hate chicken and won't touch eggs. I was just looking for alternatives.


Ah...well how do you feel about shellfish or fish? Awesome sources of protein and just all around fantastic foods are salmon and lobster. :yes: Fight fat, add protein, omega 3, etc. Super foods. :D (and yummy as hell IMO, LOL)

Also try shellfish and mollusks like shrimp and mussels and scallops.

Crab, clams, etc also good but the ones listed above are the higher amounts of protein. :yes:

Some people like tuna, some people hate it. Tuna comes in tons of forms too. From steaks for grilling, to canned to sushi. Tuna is *high* in protein. Really high. Average can of tuna is 32 g or so for the can.

As with any foods, don't overdo one type. Even seafood.

Beans, seeds and nuts...all high in proteins. I think in that order from highest to lowest. Sunflower seeds...get a package of those. Unsalted. Fun snack, packed with protein and amino acids. :yes: If you like soups...lentil and bean soups. Although soup season is just about over.

Bacardi1
Mar. 17, 2012, 06:58 PM
Coanteen:

I don't have a particular problem with protein powders, but they're definitely not as healthy as getting protein via the original source. To me - & it's a personal opinion - they're a lazy cop-out.

And I'm not "pushing doctors". I specifically said a "doctor/nutritionist". Read for comprehension. Big difference. Physicians with degrees in nutrition have a lot more to offer - particularly to vegetarians - than any fly-by-night "trainer". And many, MANY physicians with added degrees in nutrition are specifically geared to ensuring vegetarian & vegan clients are on full healthy diets. What rock have you had your head buried under?

And do you really feel that "protein powders" & "protein bars" are healthier than eating natural protein sources. If so, than I can only hope the OP doesn't take any of your posts to heart.

You don't, perhaps, work for a "protein powder" company, do you? Or maybe are a "fly-by-night" trainer? LOL!

Coanteen
Mar. 17, 2012, 07:04 PM
Coanteen:

I don't have a particular problem with protein powders, but they're definitely not as healthy as getting protein via the original source. To me - & it's a personal opinion - they're a lazy cop-out.

And I'm not "pushing doctors". I specifically said a "doctor/nutritionist". Read for comprehension. Big difference. Physicians with degrees in nutrition have a lot more to offer - particularly to vegetarians - than any fly-by-night "trainer". And many, MANY physicians with added degrees in nutrition are specifically geared to ensuring vegetarian & vegan clients are on full healthy diets. What rock have you had your head buried under?

And do you really feel that "protein powders" & "protein bars" are healthier than eating natural protein sources. If so, than I can only hope the OP doesn't take any of your posts to heart.

You don't, perhaps, work for a "protein powder" company, do you? LOL!

For someone telling others to "read for comprehension", where exactly did I say protein powders were healthier than whole-food sources? I just said they were neither unnatural nor unhealthy, and were a legit protein source.

And your first post advised OP to consult "your physician"; I assume OP's physician, like the vast majority of physicians, does not have an added nutrition degree. Perhaps you need to write for comprehension?

lilitiger2
Mar. 17, 2012, 07:18 PM
Not a total vegetarian either as I eat game meat:D and fish, but my NUTRITIONIST has recommended protein shakes and protein bars as a way to ensure an adequate amount of protein. i also eat yogurt every day and nuts (pistachios!!), and have found a can of tuna as a snack works really well. I could do better-incorporate more soy into my diet, as others have said, use whole wheat pasta-always something to work towards. I have gastroparesis so have had to learn a LOT about which foods work (and don't).

I think its GREAT you are getting ideas so you can work with your trainer/nutritionist to develop something that works for you!

In my experience, it is helpful to connect with some knowledgable person, a dietitian, nutritionist, doc who knows nutrition, whatever,come up with something, and do it. Diet is something lots of people have opinions about, but typically not so many facts!

janedoe726
Mar. 17, 2012, 10:01 PM
Coanteen:

I don't have a particular problem with protein powders, but they're definitely not as healthy as getting protein via the original source. To me - & it's a personal opinion - they're a lazy cop-out.

And I'm not "pushing doctors". I specifically said a "doctor/nutritionist". Read for comprehension. Big difference. Physicians with degrees in nutrition have a lot more to offer - particularly to vegetarians - than any fly-by-night "trainer". And many, MANY physicians with added degrees in nutrition are specifically geared to ensuring vegetarian & vegan clients are on full healthy diets. What rock have you had your head buried under?

And do you really feel that "protein powders" & "protein bars" are healthier than eating natural protein sources. If so, than I can only hope the OP doesn't take any of your posts to heart.

You don't, perhaps, work for a "protein powder" company, do you? Or maybe are a "fly-by-night" trainer? LOL!

Actually, my "trainer" (not sure why you keep putting it in quotes, but hey...) happens to have a BA in Nutrition from an accredited four-year university where I happen to work.

Please help me understand why you have to be so nasty when I'm TRYING to get healthier and ask for advice. Just don't get it....

Thanks to everyone else who has encouraged me and not (in essence) called me stoopid!

rustbreeches
Mar. 17, 2012, 10:08 PM
For health reasons, I had to seek the services of a nutritionist. I went on a whole foods plant based diet. It was a multi phase diet, and the tale end really sucked, but the first few days weren't bad at all. Lots of veggies, hummus, avocados, black beans, chick peas, etc. I don't eat eggs, so that was out. Cheeses and yougurt were also allowed in the first phase.

Bacardi1
Mar. 17, 2012, 10:11 PM
Okay - I've gone back & re-read my posts, & apart from stating my opinion -which I'm entitled to - I'm still missing where I was "nasty" or called anyone "stoopid".

Really - if I missed it, please point it out to me.

MistyBlue
Mar. 17, 2012, 10:21 PM
Okay - I've gone back & re-read my posts, & apart from stating my opinion -which I'm entitled to - I'm still missing where I was "nasty" or called anyone "stoopid".

Really - if I missed it, please point it out to me.


here, let me help!


Ugh - but your "trainer" doesn't seem to have a clue re: basic nutrition. Thus he shouldn't be trying to "find ways to up" your proteining. That's bullshit. Frankly - "gym/trainer" bullshit. And so common.

That's not offensive at all. :rolleyes: Couldn't be there.


Lord, your post is so "in the wind". You really need to sit your butt down & do some serious research re: nutrition. It doesn't make any difference if you "hate chicken" & "won't touch eggs". Have you really sat your butt done & done ANY research at all re: serious nutrition & what your body needs to be healthy at the most basic level?

Sounds like: not.


Nah, not there either.


Although I'd lean more towards a physician/nutritionist since I feel you're very susceptible to whatever walks down the pike claiming to be able to help you.


Huh...
not a thing that was nasty or insulting or calling someone stupid.

BTW, one doesn't have to type the actual word stupid to call someone....stupid.

Dummy. :winkgrin:

Gyms aren't all "pick up joints" with "shallow pretty people" in residence. Tons of them are health centers and have trained nutritionists on staff.

Sure one with an MD can take blood tests and tell you what you're currently lacking. However nobody goes to an MD to get a blood baseline and ask what they should be eating to maximize a workout.

Unless you're Breezy. :D

really, the name change didn't help one tiddly bit.

janedoe726
Mar. 17, 2012, 10:29 PM
Thank you, MistyBlue!

Coanteen
Mar. 17, 2012, 10:29 PM
Okay - I've gone back & re-read my posts, & apart from stating my opinion -which I'm entitled to - I'm still missing where I was "nasty" or called anyone "stoopid".

Really - if I missed it, please point it out to me.

You were condescending.
First, without knowing anything about OP's trainer and without bothering to ask (as OP now clarified that trainer indeed has a degree in nutrition) you stated that trainer "obviously (doesn't) know anything about diet", called them "half-assed" and also stated your utterly unfounded assumption that trainer is selling OP some protein products. For some reason you included "which is not a dirty word" when recommending OP consult their physician, as if OP had said that she doesn't want doc advice - why even bother including that snide little aside, except to be confrontational?

And I don't see any way to interpret saying to someone who is working with a nutrition-trained instructor and just wanting more protein-rich food options that they're "very susceptible to whatever walks down the pike claiming to be able to help" except nasty condescension. Funny nasty condescension mind you, since you never bothered to find out if trainer had any credentials and now all your ranting against them looks stupid.

That little "gasp" in front of "BOOK reading"? Also condescending as shit.

HighFlyinBey++
Mar. 17, 2012, 11:09 PM
Some people like tuna, some people hate it. Tuna comes in tons of forms too. From steaks for grilling, to canned to sushi. Tuna is *high* in protein. Really high. Average can of tuna is 32 g or so for the can.

For anyone who "doesn't like tuna," try REAL tuna, not that canned crap. Fresh tuna tastes NOTHING like canned.

Long Spot
Mar. 17, 2012, 11:17 PM
You guys are arguing with someone who was kicked off a food forum for arguing with a guy who said he'd eat something that had been in the fridge a while. I think it was salsa.

Regardless, she pulled the same act. Was a nasty piece of work and then went "Whaaaaat?" *innocent blink blink blinkity blink* when called out on it.

MistyBlue
Mar. 17, 2012, 11:29 PM
Well salsa....old salsa....I can totally see that. :cool:

And I agree with HFB...there is a world of difference between fresh tuna and canned tuna. :yes:

sketcher
Mar. 18, 2012, 12:00 AM
I've heard hemp seed is high in protein...most hemp I've ever had personal experience with does get you high. :winkgrin: But didn't have protein. :cool:

Thank god for that little guy with the sunglasses! :D

HighFlyinBey++
Mar. 18, 2012, 12:08 AM
Regardless, she pulled the same act. Was a nasty piece of work and then went "Whaaaaat?" *innocent blink blink blinkity blink* when called out on it.

Par for the course. Though I should point out that my anal cancer thread--started thanks to Breezy's blinking last December--actually helped someone newly diagnosed. I keep thinking about her & wondering how she's doing.

MistyBlue
Mar. 18, 2012, 12:12 AM
Where ever there's anal talk...certain people are bound to show up. :winkgrin:

HighFlyinBey++
Mar. 18, 2012, 12:18 AM
Like a moth to flame

Frizzle
Mar. 18, 2012, 02:28 AM
OK, just have to point out that people who eat fish and/or the tissues of other animals are NOT vegetarians! Sorry, but that is one of my pet peeves.

Fish-eaters are technically pescatarians. I'm a lacta-ova vegetarian because I do eat dairy and occasionally eggs (although I do frequently eat things like bread, etc. that have eggs in them). I also don't eat gelatin because it contains ground-up bones and hooves.

Vegans don't eat any animal byproducts at all (I believe they don't even eat honey).

I used to know a girl who said she was a vegetarian because she didn't eat red meat!

Bluesy
Mar. 18, 2012, 03:28 AM
Bugger it all, due to excess clicking on my part I lost an informative, (if I say so myself) longish post.

Nut shell version:
Me =

Vegetarian for more than half my life on this here planet earth
Find eating things with faces repulsive, among other things
Do not eat much soy
Have consulted nutritionists and have done a swack of research on diet.(command + c)

2 myths busted:


Most North Americans do get way too much protein. It leads to a host of problems, including weight gain and kidney problems.
http://www.nutritionresearchcenter.org/healthnews/too-much-protein-is-no-good/
Carbohydrates are not Evil Overlords trying to make you fat for their amusement. There are plenty O' Great foods that are high in (good) carbohydrates and Proteins!(command + c)


Many Ancient and/or whole grains have plenty of protein.

http://www.fitnesscontrarian.com/10-super-grains/



Amaranth: Is high in protein and calcium. One cup of amaranth has about 28 grams of protein and 300 milligrams of calcium.
Barley: High in fiber. One cup of barley has 6 grams of fiber and only 193 calories.
Millet: Is an African grain widely consumed in China. Good source of niacin, folic acid, iron, potassium, magnesium and zinc. Plus it’s gluten free.
Quinoa (http://fitnesscontrarian.com/quinoa-a-good-source-of-complete-protein-video/): Considered a grain but actually a relative of leafy green vegetables. High in manganese, fiber and protein. One forth cup has 6 grams of protein and 4 grams of fiber
Rye: Are higher in protein, iron and potassium than wheat. They have nice chewy texture and great with oats as a winter cereal.
Oats: High in fiber and studies has shown that eating rolled oats on a regular basis can lower cholesterol.
Spelt: Nice nutty sweet flavor, high in protein and easy to digest. Can be used instead of wheat to make high protein breads.
Kamut: Has a rich buttery flavor and chewy texture. Higher in protein than wheat by about 30%.
Kasha: Full of B vitamins and rich in phosphorous, potassium, iron and calcium. Kasha is roasted hulled buckwheat kernels and is a staple of the Russian diet.
Teff: A nutritional powerhouse from North Africa. High in protein, iron and calcium. Great as a hot breakfast cereal.

also:

http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/protein.htm


It is very easy for a vegan diet to meet the recommendations for protein. Nearly all vegetables, beans, grains, nuts, and seeds contain some, and often much, protein. Fruits, sugars, fats, and alcohol do not provide much protein, so a diet based only on these foods would have a good chance of being too low in protein.

(command + c)

p.s. Here is the only bread I eat: http://www.silverhillsbakery.ca/products/ it's delicious and somewhat local. Just click on any of the breads/etc to find our what they contain and their nutritional value. They are super heathy and scrumdiddlyumtious :D

(command + c)

Now we will find out if this will be posted or not...

Bluey
Mar. 18, 2012, 09:06 AM
---"It is very easy for a vegan diet to meet the recommendations for protein. Nearly all vegetables, beans, grains, nuts, and seeds contain some, and often much, protein. Fruits, sugars, fats, and alcohol do not provide much protein, so a diet based only on these foods would have a good chance of being too low in protein"---

Not commenting on other, but whoever wrote that is very uneducated in nutrition and what foods are in a very basic way.
I would not go by what advice whoever thinks that makes sense gives.:no:

No, it is not easy to meet your full complement of needed aminoacids with vegetable matter and it is not easy to do so by volume.
It is possible, but not easy.

Cows can do it, they are ruminants and evolved to process plant matter, eaten in volume, in a way that keeps them alive and thriving.
Even then cows will starve knee high in some green tall grasses low in protein, or dried up ones in the winters, if you don't supplement them with protein.

lilitiger2
Mar. 18, 2012, 09:06 AM
Bluesy, thanks, very interesting, glad you persevered and got it posted!! I make a lot of my own breads and am going to start figuring out how to make them with spelt. I am a hunter, so obviously not a vegatarian (we do offer tobacco, no pics, great respect for an animal making the ultimate sacrifice, but still....) I have to say I do it only because I have eaten the meat and feel that if I do that, I better be okay pulling the trigger. I suspect my days of that are greatly dwindling, however. Anyway, your post was helpful and thanks!

Bluesy
Mar. 18, 2012, 10:00 AM
No, it is not easy to meet your full complement of needed aminoacids with vegetable matter and it is not easy to do so by volume.
It is possible, but not easy.




With all due respect Bluey, that has in fact been disproved.:)

The reason that came about was from a book that was published a while ago saying you needed to combine several vegetarian foods in particular combinations to achieve 'complete' protein. The authour has since realized what a folly her book was.

http://www.alternet.org/health/86942

is just one link.

here are more (https://www.google.ca/search?q=myth+about+complete+protein&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a)

lili - You are welcome :) My pantry is full of different flours and grains - so much fun to play with!

Also I love Miso - don't use it a lot, but it is yummy in rices, pastas and soups!

:D

Bluey
Mar. 18, 2012, 11:34 AM
With all due respect Bluey, that has in fact been disproved.:)

The reason that came about was from a book that was published a while ago saying you needed to combine several vegetarian foods in particular combinations to achieve 'complete' protein. The authour has since realized what a folly her book was.

http://www.alternet.org/health/86942

is just one link.

here are more (https://www.google.ca/search?q=myth+about+complete+protein&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a)

lili - You are welcome :) My pantry is full of different flours and grains - so much fun to play with!

Also I love Miso - don't use it a lot, but it is yummy in rices, pastas and soups!

:D

I don't think that you or whoever is writing those articles understand proteins.

Proteins are made of aminoacids and humans need a certain group of those to thrive.
You can find some in some vegetables, some in others, but as a whole complement, with the right kinds of aminoacids humans need, they generally are only found in animal proteins.

No myths to that.
You will find that most vegetarians fudge on what is appropriate or not to be "non-meat" eater, most admit some animal proteins in their diet as still being vegetarians and that is what that one controversial and very media famous Dr was talking about.
He was not saying people should be vegans, just not eat much of any other than some vegetables for what he considers optimal health.

Even he has changed what he used to preach over the years, as the science of nutrition has advanced and so much we thought is not so, like the questions on the roles of carbohydrates and fats.

Still, the main reason humans have more health problems now, no one will dispute that, is because we are living longer and so, well, have more time to develop those.

It was not so long when more than half of your kids would die before grown, half of those that made it to grown would die within ten years from diseases caused by parasites, infections and poor nutrition.
A cut on your arm while picking your garden may kill you, poorly preserved food killed many and so on.

Yes, we have come a long way and in doing so, some are forgetting where we come from and why we have it good, although still have problems.

The need for protein and the right kind of protein in our diets is not a myth, sorry, find other articles not from one of those vegetarian websites, I would say, if you want to know where science stands today in those questions.

Ghazzu
Mar. 18, 2012, 12:12 PM
"It is very easy for a vegan diet to meet the recommendations for protein. Nearly all vegetables, beans, grains, nuts, and seeds contain some, and often much, protein. Fruits, sugars, fats, and alcohol do not provide much protein, so a diet based only on these foods would have a good chance of being too low in protein"

First off, it is far more accurate to discuss amino acid requirements than protein requirements.
While it is entirely possible to consume a vegan diet that has a full complement of essential amino acids, it does require more "thought" than a diet that includes animal products.

As for the source you quote abouve, you'll pardon me if I am skeptical of it's accuracy, because it is sloppy.
"sugars, fats, and alcohol" of *course* do not contain much protein, because they are entirely different chemical structures.

Proffie
Mar. 18, 2012, 12:20 PM
OK, I'm a vegetarian and a food Nazi, but I make a concerted effort to not inflict my narrow opinions on others. HOWEVER, the OP asked for input.

Totally agree that Americans are needlessly obsessed with protein intake. That's based on the Beef industry's lobbying.

More importantly, protein shakes and bars usually contain a lot of dairy protein. Dairy products are some of the WORST things you can consume in large quantities.

My advice, based on research and many years on my current diet, is to read "The China Study" and/or watch the documentary "Forks Over Knives." You don't have to follow the diet to the letter, but using it as the basis for your food choices could turn your health around.

...and I'm off the soap box.:D

Bluey
Mar. 18, 2012, 12:29 PM
Hey, google is your friend when you don't know something, like what "protein" is.:yes:

First hit on google, what is protein:

---"Protein


Most meats such as chicken contain all the essential amino acids needed for humans.
Main article: Protein in nutrition
Proteins are the basis of many animal body structures (e.g. muscles, skin, and hair). They also form the enzymes that control chemical reactions throughout the body. Each molecule is composed of amino acids, which are characterized by inclusion of nitrogen and sometimes sulphur (these components are responsible for the distinctive smell of burning protein, such as the keratin in hair). The body requires amino acids to produce new proteins (protein retention) and to replace damaged proteins (maintenance). As there is no protein or amino acid storage provision, amino acids must be present in the diet. Excess amino acids are discarded, typically in the urine. For all animals, some amino acids are essential (an animal cannot produce them internally) and some are non-essential (the animal can produce them from other nitrogen-containing compounds). About twenty amino acids are found in the human body, and about ten of these are essential and, therefore, must be included in the diet. A diet that contains adequate amounts of amino acids (especially those that are essential) is particularly important in some situations: during early development and maturation, pregnancy, lactation, or injury (a burn, for instance). A complete protein source contains all the essential amino acids; an incomplete protein source lacks one or more of the essential amino acids.
It is possible to combine two incomplete protein sources (e.g. rice and beans) to make a complete protein source, and characteristic combinations are the basis of distinct cultural cooking traditions. Sources of dietary protein include meats, tofu and other soy-products, eggs, legumes, and dairy products such as milk and cheese. Excess amino acids from protein can be converted into glucose and used for fuel through a process called gluconeogenesis. The amino acids remaining after such conversion are discarded."---

HighFlyinBey++
Mar. 18, 2012, 02:15 PM
Don't know where Bluey found that info, as my first hit on google for "what is protein" took me to the dictionary and the second to the CDC Nutrition for Everyone (http://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/everyone/basics/protein.html) which has a link to Nutrients to focus on for vegetarians (http://www.choosemyplate.gov/healthy-eating-tips/tips-for-vegetarian.html)

LauraKY
Mar. 18, 2012, 02:23 PM
The reason you got a different google hit HighFlyinBey is that google, like almost every search engine, uses an algorithm to predict which response you're looking for. It goes by past searches, your location, etc.

Big brother is watching. And unfortunately, many of us now get information slanted to what we already believe and read.

OTV
Mar. 18, 2012, 02:29 PM
I'm seriously considering becoming a vegan and have started a two week trial period. I've done some research (not enough) but luckily I have a vegan friend who is "holding my hand" while I get started.

To the OP: have you had your protein levels checked? My vegan friend gets hers done every 6 months for protein and iron levels. Hers are SKY high, in fact a lot higher than her meat-eating friends (me included). Her rationale-based-on-research is that meat-eaters tend to rely too heavily on meat for providing iron and protein, when our bodies more readily absorb plant-based iron/protein. So, it really doesn't matter if you don't like this or that meat; you easily get protein from other sources.

My grocery list includes such nutrient rich items as tofu, bulgur, lentils (1/4-1/2 cup provides close to 50% of a average-sized person's iron intake/day), spinach, eggplant, quinoa, vegan "cheese" products, and soy milk.

I think the biggest mistake vegetarians make when switching to a meat-free diet is that they don't replace the meat they're giving up. If the only or main protein you eat is from meat and you stop having meatballs in your pasta, or chicken in your salads, or ham in your sandwiches...then you'll get protein deficient. That's why lots of people who try to go vegetarian but don't do enough research end up going back to meat and then condemn a meat-free diet. You need to replace meatballs with tofu or bean balls, chicken with spinach and lentils, and so on. That's how you improve your protein levels.

Bluey
Mar. 18, 2012, 02:34 PM
You may tell your friend to reread the science behind where the most bioavailable protein comes from for humans and it is not from plants.

Human evolution took a big jump when we learned to catch and eat more animal products, including a big jump in brain development and for good reason.

Here is where you can find definitions in some very basic, clearly explained information on this topic, where the above quote on what protein is came from:;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutrition

For better, more in depth information, the next hits will bring medical encyclopedias, expanding on those terms and how we understand them today.:yes:

Bluesy
Mar. 18, 2012, 04:00 PM
OK, I'm a vegetarian and a food Nazi, but I make a concerted effort to not inflict my narrow opinions on others. HOWEVER, the OP asked for input.

Totally agree that Americans are needlessly obsessed with protein intake. That's based on the Beef industry's lobbying.

More importantly, protein shakes and bars usually contain a lot of dairy protein. Dairy products are some of the WORST things you can consume in large quantities.

My advice, based on research and many years on my current diet, is to read "The China Study" and/or watch the documentary "Forks Over Knives." You don't have to follow the diet to the letter, but using it as the basis for your food choices could turn your health around.

...and I'm off the soap box.:D

I second The China Study. :cool: Great book!

Yes, I do know what proteins are, and no, I still do NOT believe that animal products are the only 'complete' source of proteins, from the amount that I have read (and not just from those websites I have cited.) :)

I am certainly not going to argue with anyone about it, but I still cannot justify ending a sentient life for me especially when I do not need to. Just my humble opinion. (heck, I even have trouble killing flies and mosquitoes ;))

Pip pip cheerio (:

Coanteen
Mar. 18, 2012, 04:19 PM
Yes, I do know what proteins are, and no, I still do NOT believe that animal products are the only 'complete' source of proteins, from the amount that I have read (and not just from those websites I have cited.) :)

They're not. Soy for ex is a source of complete protein (its PDCAA score is on par with whey and egg white), and I think some grains like amaranth are also complete protein sources (although while they contain all 9 essential aa's, I don't know if they contain them in a good breakdown like soy does).

But the whole "OMG complete protein sources noez" debate is just stupid to begin with. Yes, since most animal-derived protein sources are complete us meat eaters don't have to worry about it, but all a vegetarian has to do is combine a couple or more protein sources to get a "complete protein" profile. With the internet it's hardly rocket science - ok, so you'll have to eat 2 different foods instead of just 1 food to get all 9 essential aa's, but so what?

Bluey
Mar. 18, 2012, 04:24 PM
I second The China Study. :cool: Great book!

Yes, I do know what proteins are, and no, I still do NOT believe that animal products are the only 'complete' source of proteins, from the amount that I have read (and not just from those websites I have cited.) :)

I am certainly not going to argue with anyone about it, but I still cannot justify ending a sentient life for me especially when I do not need to. Just my humble opinion. (heck, I even have trouble killing flies and mosquitoes ;))

Pip pip cheerio (:

That is the funniest disconnect with reality I have yet heard.:lol:

I assume you are human, live in a house, drive a car, use immense resources in all you do, your house is not infested with mice and crocroaches, your body with lice and fleas, your pets with ticks, your horses wormy.

Hey, really if you look around, it is a dog eat dog world out there, it is the way this little blue marble we live in evolved.:yes:

All alive is so because something else cashed it in and when we do, other will live off us.

No, no one wants to be a wanton killer of other, sentinent or not, or wasteful of resources, but we are all users of given resources, including owning, managing, training and riding horses for our wants.

Somewhere in all our very complicated lives are, I am with the native indians, that would kill what they wanted, even more if that was part of what had to happen, like running buffalo off the cliffs right here and eat and cure and get the skins and other they could use and leave the rest to "recycle" naturally, all that while giving the buffalo thanks for providing.:)

michaleenflynn
Mar. 18, 2012, 05:19 PM
A few thoughts....

-It's not only protein one needs to be concerned with, it's the amino acid profile that comes from pairing proteins & carbs; certain foods combine in a more efficient and healthful way.

-Be careful with soy products like tofu and soy milk; read up on the side effects and controversy surrounding the estrogen soy contains.

-IME and FWIW, ovo-lacto vegetarians rarely have a problem with protein intake.

-In response to people who say "I'm not totally vegetarian" - well, you can't be a little bit pregnant lol. Either you are, or you are not, a vegetarian. People who occasionally eat meat or fish are NOT vegetarian, period.

Frizzle
Mar. 18, 2012, 05:37 PM
Bee pollen is a great supplement for vegetarians, also, as it contains tons of amino acids, enzymes, etc. And you only need to take a tablespoon or two a day. Spirulina is another good one (my horse gets it, but I don't spend the $$ for me to take it :lol:).

Beam Me Up
Mar. 18, 2012, 05:37 PM
There are some great sites linked to on this page.
http://veganathlete.com/

I know several vegan ultramarathoners.
I am nowhere near that athletic but I do love tofu (more so than the genetically modified soy faux meat), nuts, beans, legumes, quinoa, dark leafy greens. Greek yogurt is good if you do dairy.

Always, always on threads about vegetarians we get a couple people (the same ones) insisting that vegetarian is unhealthy, as well as a couple others upset about people defining vegetarian too broadly. I wish we could be more accepting of each others' diets.

Frizzle
Mar. 18, 2012, 05:40 PM
Oh, and when I became a vegetarian as a kid, my mother took me to a nutritionist for quite some time so I could learn how to do it right. Really, it is NOT at all complicated, as some are making it out to be. Pretty darn simple, actually.

lilitiger2
Mar. 18, 2012, 05:42 PM
I dunno, not a huge issue for me, but I think it's fair to say, "I'm mostly vegetarian" or whatever, as opposed to, "well I don't ever BUY meat or prepare it myself but if my boyfriend gets McNuggets I do eat a few and when I go to my cousins house I sometimes eat her special salmon and two or three time a month I go out for dinner with my family and have a few bites of steak"-obviously NOT a vegetarian but diet strongly flavored that way!!

Frankly, I think everyone who enjoys commercial meat should tour a slaughter house so they can fully appreciate what that process is like. Not that people are going to give up meat/animal products but sure should know what the cost is.

I do not like killing things (but I do think if you eat it you should be able to do it) and when I hunt, that for me is certainly never easy (just set my rifle down and burst into tears the first time, before the work began). As I live with a Native, I can say for him anyway, he doens't kill everything he wants, for sure, but just what he needs, and we use the hide, etc. Offer tobacco in gratitude.

I think my days of doing that, however, although I will continue helping my husband, are numbered.

CosMonster
Mar. 18, 2012, 05:50 PM
That is the funniest disconnect with reality I have yet heard.:lol:

I assume you are human, live in a house, drive a car, use immense resources in all you do, your house is not infested with mice and crocroaches, your body with lice and fleas, your pets with ticks, your horses wormy.

Hey, really if you look around, it is a dog eat dog world out there, it is the way this little blue marble we live in evolved.:yes:

All alive is so because something else cashed it in and when we do, other will live off us.

No, no one wants to be a wanton killer of other, sentinent or not, or wasteful of resources, but we are all users of given resources, including owning, managing, training and riding horses for our wants.

Somewhere in all our very complicated lives are, I am with the native indians, that would kill what they wanted, even more if that was part of what had to happen, like running buffalo off the cliffs right here and eat and cure and get the skins and other they could use and leave the rest to "recycle" naturally, all that while giving the buffalo thanks for providing.:)

To be fair also, the practice of vegetarianism and veganism are pretty old. Although there are different interpretations of the principle of ahimsa and not all forbid eating or killing animals, some have forbidden it since as early as the third century CE.

I mention it because it is what informs my own vegetarianism. I know that animals are killed when crops are harvested, my first world lifestyle (simple as I try to keep it) exploits third world workers, etc. Most people who live like that are quite aware that simply by being human, you're going to kill some critter. Jainist monks were known for carrying a little broom to sweep bugs out of the way so they didn't accidentally step on one, but even they realized it was inevitable. However, I feel it is important to minimize harm. It is possible to live a healthy and balanced lifestyle without eating meat, so I don't. Whether or not we evolved to eat meat is irrelevant--horses didn't evolve to eat a lot of what we feed them, but they do fine as long as their diet is balanced. It isn't like feeding a dog a vegetarian diet--we also evolved to eat plants, and in fact it's pretty well established that the meat-heavy diet so common in America is not what we evolved for and is actually harmful to us. Not meat itself, just the quantities. Eating it just a few times a week would be healthier, rather than having it at every meal like many people I know.

So I guess this is just my roundabout way of saying please don't ridicule people who don't eat meat because they don't want to end a life. Some of us have spiritual reasons for doing so and have actually given this topic a little bit of thought, you know.

(and since it always comes up in vegetarian threads on horse boards, no, I don't buy new leather goods--I have ones that I've bought used, and otherwise I buy synthetic ;))



-In response to people who say "I'm not totally vegetarian" - well, you can't be a little bit pregnant lol. Either you are, or you are not, a vegetarian. People who occasionally eat meat or fish are NOT vegetarian, period.

I think it's often just used as shorthand. I went through a period of only eating meat when I knew how the animal had been raised and killed (so, friends' livestock, hunted game, that sort of thing) and would often say I was a vegetarian, except I'd eat fish I caught or whatever. I knew I wasn't officially a vegetarian, but it was kind of effective for getting my point across, hopefully without sounding like a pompous jerk by saying, "Well, I don't eat any of that grocery-store meat." ;)

Now I've gone even further and often say I'm vegan, even though I'm not--I happily eat the honey my friends with an apiary produce, as well as eggs from my neighbors' chickens and milk from my goats (well, that one's in the works) and friends' cows and goats. But I try not to eat animal products if I'm not sure where they came from or how that critter was treated, so often in public it's just easier to describe myself as a vegan rather than explaining my whole philosophy about food. ;)

Laurierace
Mar. 18, 2012, 08:01 PM
My 16 year old daughter stopped eating meat when my sister in law (who is not a vegetarian) showed her a documentary about a slaughterhouse. I am praying it is just a phase because she eats so poorly. I bought her all sorts of meatless hamburgers, chicken nuggets etc and she won't even try them because she says she doesn't want to eat anything that looks like meat either. No tofu anything. She won't drink soy milk and drinks very little regular milk. She will eat shrimp. Scares the crap out of me!

Coanteen
Mar. 18, 2012, 08:15 PM
My 16 year old daughter stopped eating meat when my sister in law (who is not a vegetarian) showed her a documentary about a slaughterhouse. I am praying it is just a phase because she eats so poorly. I bought her all sorts of meatless hamburgers, chicken nuggets etc and she won't even try them because she says she doesn't want to eat anything that looks like meat either. No tofu anything. She won't drink soy milk and drinks very little regular milk. She will eat shrimp. Scares the crap out of me!

You don't need meat substitutes, if she won't eat them. But she can't be too limited in her palate: if she won't eat soy or fake meat, she has to eat some of the higher-protein grains and legumes. Eggs are great too, if she'll eat them.

I track my food intake and just happened to notice that today I got 71g protein (which is way more than enough) without any meat/fish/meat substitute products, and no protein supplements. All from eggs, some cheese, lentils, and assorted vegetables.

Laurierace
Mar. 18, 2012, 08:21 PM
She had mashed potatoes (with gravy?!) and raspberries for dinner. I did have shrimp as an appetizer today so she is probably good there but we don't do that every night obviously. I think part of it is it gives her an excuse to be an even pickier eater than she was before.

Coanteen
Mar. 18, 2012, 08:32 PM
She had mashed potatoes (with gravy?!) and raspberries for dinner. I did have shrimp as an appetizer today so she is probably good there but we don't do that every night obviously. I think part of it is it gives her an excuse to be an even pickier eater than she was before.

Yeah, sometimes vegetarianism can be an excuse to be super picky, especially in teenage girls. It's even used to hide eating disorders.

Potatoes and berries isn't gonna cut it, and she needs to understand that. I would actually get high-protein grains and replace potatoes with them altogether (for her, or for the whole family). I find lentils super fun personally, I get the French green ones and cook them either with curry spices or "sweet" with some prune juice to sub for the water, and Dutch cacao powder. They're nutty so they come out great with a bit of sweetness too.

Laurierace
Mar. 18, 2012, 08:39 PM
That's just it, she either doesn't understand or doesn't care. She is beyond the stage where I can force her to eat something. I am constantly bringing home new things from the store for her to try. Usually she won't even try them but if she does, she doesn't like it. She eats cheese and apple slices every day for breakfast. That is probably the best meal of the day.

Bluey
Mar. 18, 2012, 08:55 PM
That's just it, she either doesn't understand or doesn't care. She is beyond the stage where I can force her to eat something. I am constantly bringing home new things from the store for her to try. Usually she won't even try them but if she does, she doesn't like it. She eats cheese and apple slices every day for breakfast. That is probably the best meal of the day.

How about her going to the store with you and picking what she may like then?

We grew up (in Europe, right after WWII) with little food, that rationed and NO choice and at times went a bit hungry, didn't quite have enough.
We ate anything and thankful for it, didn't have a chance to ask if we liked it or not.
No way to be picky under those conditions.;)

Frizzle
Mar. 18, 2012, 09:52 PM
Laurierace, has she tried the spicy black bean burgers from Morning Star Farm? I also will not eat anything that is meant to taste like meat or resemble it, and these do not. They're SO good! I usually eat them topped with spinach, cheese, and either some avocado or sun-dried tomatoes. Add either a baked sweet potato or Green Giant Antioxidant Blend of broccoli, bell peppers, and carrots in a garlic olive oil sauce and you've got yourself a quick, delicious, healthy meal.

Trixie
Mar. 18, 2012, 10:28 PM
I'm a vegetarian and have done fairly well with protein from beans, eggs, cheese and other sources.

Tonight's dinner was a Morningstar Farms burger with sharp cheddar and an over easy egg on it. Delicious. I've also got a pot of beans and rice simmering on the stove for lunches this week. Used this recipe: http://allrecipes.com/recipe/zesty-rice-n-bean-casserole/Reviews.aspx?Page=2
which is surprisingly simple and good, with a ton of vegetables. Added corn and used cheddar instead of mozzarella, though, and used a mix of brown and wild rice.

Laurie, I was the same way when I was a teenager. My dear father put a lot of effort into making me all sorts of wonderful things to eat and I pretty much wanted only bagels. I grew out of it when I got to college and started cooking for myself, though.

Laurierace
Mar. 18, 2012, 10:58 PM
Thanks for the ideas. My oldest daughter went through a meatless stage for awhile in high school but she ate some of the boca stuff and drank soy milk and such so I wasn't quite as worried about her.
My daughter does like refried beans, is that a decent source? She eats quite a bit of broccoli and pasta. The ironic thing is I eat very little meat myself so I am probably not the greatest example of a great diet but I eat lots of dairy and start each day with a protein bar so hopefully I am pretty good.

Bluesy
Mar. 19, 2012, 02:14 AM
To be fair also, the practice of vegetarianism and veganism are pretty old. Although there are different interpretations of the principle of ahimsa and not all forbid eating or killing animals, some have forbidden it since as early as the third century CE.

I mention it because it is what informs my own vegetarianism. I know that animals are killed when crops are harvested, my first world lifestyle (simple as I try to keep it) exploits third world workers, etc. Most people who live like that are quite aware that simply by being human, you're going to kill some critter. Jainist monks were known for carrying a little broom to sweep bugs out of the way so they didn't accidentally step on one, but even they realized it was inevitable. However, I feel it is important to minimize harm. It is possible to live a healthy and balanced lifestyle without eating meat, so I don't. Whether or not we evolved to eat meat is irrelevant--horses didn't evolve to eat a lot of what we feed them, but they do fine as long as their diet is balanced. It isn't like feeding a dog a vegetarian diet--we also evolved to eat plants, and in fact it's pretty well established that the meat-heavy diet so common in America is not what we evolved for and is actually harmful to us. Not meat itself, just the quantities. Eating it just a few times a week would be healthier, rather than having it at every meal like many people I know.

So I guess this is just my roundabout way of saying please don't ridicule people who don't eat meat because they don't want to end a life. Some of us have spiritual reasons for doing so and have actually given this topic a little bit of thought, you know.

(and since it always comes up in vegetarian threads on horse boards, no, I don't buy new leather goods--I have ones that I've bought used, and otherwise I buy synthetic ;))



I think it's often just used as shorthand. I went through a period of only eating meat when I knew how the animal had been raised and killed (so, friends' livestock, hunted game, that sort of thing) and would often say I was a vegetarian, except I'd eat fish I caught or whatever. I knew I wasn't officially a vegetarian, but it was kind of effective for getting my point across, hopefully without sounding like a pompous jerk by saying, "Well, I don't eat any of that grocery-store meat." ;)

Now I've gone even further and often say I'm vegan, even though I'm not--I happily eat the honey my friends with an apiary produce, as well as eggs from my neighbors' chickens and milk from my goats (well, that one's in the works) and friends' cows and goats. But I try not to eat animal products if I'm not sure where they came from or how that critter was treated, so often in public it's just easier to describe myself as a vegan rather than explaining my whole philosophy about food. ;)

Thank you for your lovely thoughts.

:yes: :)

Trixie
Mar. 19, 2012, 10:18 AM
Laurie, I would say it depends. If you're making homemade refried beans - maybe a recipe like this (http://allrecipes.com/recipe/vegetarian-refried-beans/) - they're probably pretty healthy. If you get them from somewhere that processes them with lard and high levels of sodium, probably much less so.

Maybe you could combine it with fresh salsa or something.

Laurierace
Mar. 19, 2012, 10:22 AM
I bought her some at the grocery store that came in a can that she liked. She eats it plain or I used it to make her a chimichanga while we were having chicken chimichangas. Thanks for the recipe, I will give it a try.

magnolia73
Mar. 19, 2012, 12:55 PM
I hate to say it, I was a vegetarian for a long time.....

I went back to eating meat (mainly chicken). I feel 100x better. My sugar cravings have stoppped. I eat a lot of chicken, eggs, some pork, some beef, some fish, tons of veggies, and fruit, plus dairy. I don't want or have room for unhealthy foods anymore.

I quit eating grains and cut out probably 95% of the processed sugar in my diet. I could NOT cut back on the sugar without adding back in the meats.

I was a "healthy" vegetarian- lots of tofu, whole grains, beans, veggies- but could NEVER escape overeating the sugar. It not only made me fat, it made me have energy issues.

And nutrition, I believe is something that varies per the individual- it is not one size fits all. To the OP, track what you eat.... but realize that the more healthy foods you "won't eat" the harder it is to have a truly healthy diet.

Now I have not lost a ton of weigh- 23 pounds since last November, but I am working out about 1/3 as much. And prior to eating meat again, could not lose weight.