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paintedrain91
Mar. 12, 2012, 01:59 AM
I'm in the horse search, and I came across one I like. He's an 8 year old QH gelding, 16.1. He's more like a text book, stocky QH than the appendix-type ones. I was wondering if this would get good reviews in the hunter ring? Personally I've always liked QHs, and how round they are in the barrel area, vs TBs. But I'm worried that if I were to show in the H/J classes (both flat and over fences) the judges would pick a slim, classy TB over a stocky muscly QH. I'm not sure if I'd do anything rated, but in the future I may be able to afford to do a few. Mostly I'd probably be showing in local shows though (if at all). I know it all depends on the movement, but I was wondering in general do they do well in the H/J ring? I can provide a picture late, need to go to bed.

bumknees
Mar. 12, 2012, 06:11 AM
Sure why not? If they can do the job asked of them. And in todays hunter ring ''make the step/stride''. I dont see why they can not make it ok. I know of several who did quite well who were of the "foundation" stock litterally as they were born in the 60's who on a regular basis beat the pants off the leggy TB when leggy TB's were the horse to have in the hunter ring.

And no it is no more difficult to get them off their forehand than any other horse. It just takes a bit more dedication on the part of the rider to keep them so. having ridden both QH's and other breeds, I honestly can not feel the diferance between qh's that are supposedly ''built down hill'' and those who are not. Or so I am told one is and the other isnt. You just ride them the same and equally well.

But as long as the horse can do the job asked a QH can do just as well as a WB, TB, Tony the Pony, Heinz 75, the best bred horse of the season in the hunter world. In reality it all comes down to the rider...

luv2ride2
Mar. 12, 2012, 08:34 AM
I've seen QH's that I thought were warmbloods and they definitely (for the most part) are more quiet than your typical TB's. So I would say yes, definitely, you could find one suitable for hunters.

westie55
Mar. 12, 2012, 09:00 AM
The only thing that matters is how well the horse carries itself itself and does its job. If you find a QH with "huntery" movement, keep a consistent pace, get down the lines, and find all the jumps, there is no reason you can't do well, especially at the local level!

KitKat987
Mar. 12, 2012, 09:00 AM
I have two that show jumpers. Did hunters their first year of showing but now do jumpers because that's what I prefer.

16.1HH 7 y.o. appendix:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1akfxCzjBnk

16.2HH 7 y.o. QH:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq-5-Zch4Cs

Try doing a search on here too. There have been a few threads about QHs in the h/j ring :)

Lucassb
Mar. 12, 2012, 09:05 AM
It's not the breed, but the conformation that matters in the hunters.

The traditional, stock-type QH was "designed" for a very different job; typically this type does not demonstrate the type of movement or jump desirable in the hunter ring. (You probably wouldn't ask a greyhound to be a sled dog, after all.) However, particularly on a local level, you can often be competitive on a kind, consistent horse even if the movement is not "all that," and many QHs are very amateur friendly in that regard.

In the jumpers, it's obviously all about performance rather than style, but again the horse's conformation is going to factor into how well the horse can do the job. That stock-bred QH wasn't necessarily bred to jump, but rather to do ranch work, and their bodies often reflect that (particularly shoulder and hip angles.) Doesn't mean that QHs cannot jump - many of them jump just fine - but that you need to evaluate their conformation and ability just as you would any other horse.

pryme_thyme
Mar. 12, 2012, 09:36 AM
I owned a stocky little 15.1 paint gelding about 6-7 years back, I started him right after he was backed by a cowboy. His flashy colour and great temperment is what got me... a welcomed change from my spooky TB mare at the time.

I trained him for two years before selling him to a young girl, he won EVERYTHING over fences and had the cutest form. Hunter judges loved him for his jump but we never did well on the flat.
It came to a point as I began showing children's hunter rather than green bean's and low hunter, where movement weighed heavily on the score and since there were horses with a good jump and great movement, he began slipping in his placings. He could get the striding but he had work at it... at that point I found a nice girl who would enjoy him and did not care to do rated shows.

If you want to do Trillium or A's, you likely would not do well with a stocky QH. But you do see a lot of appendix quarters at these shows, they seem to do very well since they tend to have a better mind than a TB but they have the movement.
Good luck with your search, purchase a horse that can do what you want to do and you will be happy, not something that you think you should buy. That never works out :)

ponies123
Mar. 12, 2012, 09:59 AM
My large pony as a junior was an AQHA and she was, and still is, my favorite horse in the world. She was somewhere in between the appendix type and the stockier ranch type QH's, but definitely thicker than the average pony we were showing against. She was beautiful though - strawberry roan and lots of flashy white. And she was huge with a huge stride (no problem getting down the lines, which is important). She felt like sitting on a horse because she was tall and wide. Mine was not the typical dead quiet/numb AQHA though, she was a very difficult ride and when she got going she was like trying to stop a Mac truck - I have actually known several AQHA/Appendix Horses that show in hunters at open/USEF shows who are similar. If you let them build they can be hell to stop, but I might have just been "lucky" to know a few that are that way :lol:. I think mine had a lot of TB back in here pedigree.

Here is mine (http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/188198_5396031279_575601279_50039_7462_n.jpg), as you can see she is definitely stockier than what you'd usually encounter in the pony ring and a bit long backed, but not nearly as stocky as some of the QH's can get. Loved her. Would own and show her or another AQHA again.

TesignedInGold
Mar. 12, 2012, 10:11 AM
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/835/tazzyo.jpg/

Theres my QH, rocking the 3 foot ring....and he's yellow!! He's brought home many grand / reserve champion in our (very large and competitive) local series. He's also won Grand champion Year-End Awards. We've also shown the rated's and he's held his own in good company. Is he a hack winner? HECK NO! But with a jump like that, and a great canter, he usually does well over fences as long as I don't mess up.

(Note: I do not show wellington, or ocala, or any of those. I doubt he'd be able to stand up to horses of that caliber. But I love him anyway, and he's taught me more then I can ever repay him for.

roamingnome
Mar. 12, 2012, 10:22 AM
Anthem35's QH ribboned in the hunters at Nationals... Definitely ask her!!

anthem35
Mar. 12, 2012, 12:47 PM
Anthem35's QH ribboned in the hunters at Nationals... Definitely ask her!!

I'm so honored and proud! WOW! Thank you for thinking of me!

My QH (Grey horse in my tagline) is 100% QH, and all the heft and chunk that goes along with it :)

And I am still blown away by how far and how he sucessful he became..certainly farther than I had ever hoped!

A few of his career highlights: ( said with pride, not boasting)

Mutiple ribbons at WEF ( more when I wasn't driving! :), National HS, WCHR week @ WEF, Tri-colors at HITS, placed twice at M & S finals, Won 3 state equitation finals, top 10 in 3 others, 1st in Maclay qualifier at HITS, to, been to NEEC 4 times and champion twice at AQHA show!)

As one of my trainers used to tell me, "I don't know if your horse can jump 4 feet, but he's sure as hell going to try..."

I just think in his barn full of 'fancy horses', no one ever told him he wasn't 'fancy' !!

:)

Thanks for making my day!!! :) :) :)

Crown Royal
Mar. 12, 2012, 01:07 PM
Generally at local shows, if you go around and get all your distances/strides, and jump quietly with even knees, you will do well. He may not win the hack, but if he's steady and goes like a hunter you will be fine. As others said, since QH's are generally ammy-friendly and good, quiet souls, they do well locally.

If he's nice enough, don't be ashamed to show him at A's. Depends on the horse but QH's (even foundation-type) are plenty capable of doing well against TB's or Warmbloods. It's about the round/ride, not the breed.

anthem35
Mar. 12, 2012, 01:09 PM
Generally at local shows, if you go around and get all your distances/strides, and jump quietly with even knees, you will do well. He may not win the hack, but if he's steady and goes like a hunter you will be fine. As others said, since QH's are generally ammy-friendly and good, quiet souls, they do well locally.

If he's nice enough, don't be ashamed to show him at A's. Depends on the horse but QH's (even foundation-type) are plenty capable of doing well against TB's or Warmbloods. It's about the round/ride, not the breed.

...just an add, we would place consistently in the hack at HITS, (Saratoga, VT, etc.) never at WEF or Marshall Sterling Finals.

AlyssaSpellman
Mar. 12, 2012, 01:13 PM
I showed this (http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m06rc4znxj1qjwtdxo1_500.jpg) large pony in the children's ponies two years ago on the A circuit and we did quite well. She's a full paint, and built like one.
However, like Lucassb said, they weren't bred to jump. I have another QH mare who was my children's hunter and developed carpal arthritis. Of course, we'll never know if it was because of the fact that she had been jumping for years before I got her, or if it was just something she got, but it's something to keep in mind.
However there is no reason that a QH can't do well in the hunter ring, especially at the local level.

Plumcreek
Mar. 12, 2012, 01:22 PM
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/835/tazzyo.jpg/

Theres my QH, rocking the 3 foot ring....and he's yellow!! He's brought home many grand / reserve champion in our (very large and competitive) local series. He's also won Grand champion Year-End Awards. We've also shown the rated's and he's held his own in good company. Is he a hack winner? HECK NO! But with a jump like that, and a great canter, he usually does well over fences as long as I don't mess up.
.

QHs with some halter horse bloodlines, like I imagine this horse has ( from his name), may have a more warmblood-like open shoulder and higher neck set, allowing them to use their front end better over fences, than if they were pleasure horse bred. Some of the more recent HUS bloodlines, like 'These Irons are Hot' and 'Allocate Your Assets', (along with the older and already very successful over fences 'Skys Blue Boy' get), have the higher neck set and their foals will be interesting to watch over fences.

TesignedInGold
Mar. 12, 2012, 02:45 PM
QHs with some halter horse bloodlines, like I imagine this horse has ( from his name), may have a more warmblood-like open shoulder and higher neck set, allowing them to use their front end better over fences, than if they were pleasure horse bred. Some of the more recent HUS bloodlines, like 'These Irons are Hot' and 'Allocate Your Assets', (along with the older and already very successful over fences 'Skys Blue Boy' get), have the higher neck set and their foals will be interesting to watch over fences.

Yup - you hit the nail on the head! He is halter-bred, his sire was "Tesigned" and his dam has lines dating back to Impressive.

Taz, as is his barn name, has many points in halter, up until the age of 8. It is then that I bought him, and retrained him to do the hunter/jumper stuff. He's got a great mind on him, a fantastic jump, and large stride. Although he is "Typical" Quarter horse (when he says no, he means NO!) - there is not an ounce of pleasure in him. They spent the first 8 years of his life attempting to get him to jog - His stride is just too big.

His greatest downfall are his white feet. Although he has never had a lame day, we carefully manage his tootsies as they bruise easily, and he's a fan of loosing shoes in the mud. Even still, he goes in normal steel shoes, fronts only, and is perfectly happy!

Crown Royal
Mar. 12, 2012, 02:54 PM
...just an add, we would place consistently in the hack at HITS, (Saratoga, VT, etc.) never at WEF or Marshall Sterling Finals.

That's why I said it depends on the horse. :) A lot of QH's have shorter strides without anything special, a lot of QH's have bigger strides. But without seeing the horse in question, I have no idea. I'm just saying, worse-case scenario. ;)

FineAlready
Mar. 12, 2012, 03:33 PM
I used to ride a great little QH - he was little and stocky, and looked every bit like the QH he was. He jumped GREAT, had a great mind, and was super honest. His biggest drawback was that he did not have a big enough stride to be competitive in the hunters on the A circuit. But, let me tell you, he could jump one heck of a big jump considering his teeny tiny little stride and small stature! I jumped him 4' quite safely and efficiently. :) One of the most fun horses I have ever ridden.

OP - if you like the horse, I'd go for it!

karlymacrae
Mar. 12, 2012, 04:00 PM
My QH (bred for reining) and I did very well in the pre childs and 2'6" - 2'9" jumpers "back in the day".

with my younger sister in 2010: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RitC4OjtFPU

with me summer 2009: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0suRMKE-Gk (reserve champ 2'9" jumpers at an A show)

a couple of grids/hunter rounds from 2008/2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJnHqY-3dPM

she did quite well in the hacks and has a huge stride. I got her at a livestock auction so never expected of her what we ended up accomplishing!

ToTheNines
Mar. 12, 2012, 05:49 PM
Here's mine, not halter bred, but did very well on the Texas Circuit, Green, Junior and Children's (not with me .... now he is doing the Fossils over Fences with me at 2'6"). Love him to pieces. He is as reliable and professional as they come. He just always knows how to act on the ground and being ridden. Picture is with his junior rider.

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/384459_2731450459882_1665880789_2496762_349813133_ n.jpg

kmwines01
Mar. 12, 2012, 08:13 PM
My appendix had a great jump and a beautiful trot. He had tons of other issues but he definitely could've pinned well if other things had gone differently.

My trainer growing up had an appendix, tall but stockier type, that pinned well in the over fences doing the 1st years. He didn't move very well but that was a result of EPM. Prior to that he was gorgeous undersaddle.

Basically, they can compete if they're the right horse and can do the job.

Plumcreek
Mar. 12, 2012, 08:51 PM
For those who haven't heard, there is now a privately sponsored Hunter Derby Series at selected AQHA shows, with pro and non-pro prizes. Next ones are in Virginia on April 5, and Kentucky on April 14.
The official Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Huntfield-AQHA-derby-series/256212047770097

Hunter Mom
Mar. 12, 2012, 09:21 PM
It's been mentioned on here before that it wouldn't be surprising of some of the "unpapered WBs" around are really QH. I don't know that to be true, but it's certainly possible. People ask me if DD's mare (who is appendix but very curvy) is a WB.

Anyhow...
A good horse is a good horse. If they can do their job - jump with their nose between their knees and make the step look easy in the hunter ring, or get around clean & quick in the jumper ring, they're a good horse.

allicolls Aefvue Farms Deep South
Mar. 12, 2012, 09:38 PM
We definitely got asked if my sister's Appendix junior hunter was a WB. She was a big mare, not stocky but definitely not TB-lean. Had plenty of step, a beautiful jump, and pinned well in the hack.

paintedrain91
Mar. 12, 2012, 10:26 PM
Thank you everyone for your input. This horse I believe is halter bred, you can trace his lines back to Impressive. I don't know much about the shoulder angles, and whether or not (from looking at the horse) it may or may not make a decent jumper. Here are some pictures of him.
http://i41.tinypic.com/35mip3c.png ~Walk
http://i39.tinypic.com/347a8i0.jpg ~Halter class
http://i44.tinypic.com/qrjbzb.png~ Trot on short lunge line
http://i43.tinypic.com/14ne6w6.png ~Canter on short lunge line

I got the halter picture from the current owner, the others are from when I went to briefly visit him last Saturday. I will be going up with my trainer this coming Saturday, and the owner has said we can try to pop him over a little xrail to see how her does.
I don't think I would be doing classes any higher than 3', I'm not quite comfortable with that height yet. Since I don't show regularly either, I would more likely do smaller classes at first to build my confidence up. I was quite comfortable with a 2' class I did recently.

2tempe
Mar. 12, 2012, 10:32 PM
The only thing that matters is how well the horse carries itself itself and does its job. If you find a QH with "huntery" movement, keep a consistent pace, get down the lines, and find all the jumps, there is no reason you can't do well, especially at the local level!

I have not read all the posts but back in the midwest, there were a number of QH's doing hunters quite respectably. One did A/O hunters, he was beautiful, with a big step and lovely jump; cleaned up both locally and regionally.

In the late 90's early 2000's I had an unpapered horse who had done the regular working hunters in his youth ( he was 18 when I had him doing adult ammies.) My guess is that he was appendix QH. Also worth noting is that there is a subset of QH breeders who now focus on the hunter type world, breeding taller, less stocky types who are quite nice.

2tempe
Mar. 12, 2012, 10:37 PM
Second set of comments: if you want to show recognized, any QH should be evaluated re its ability to get down the lines; this can be sometimes a problem. I had a lovely QH mare, originally trained to drive, then later to do hunters. She had a nice jump and was a good mover, but would have had to add in the recognized lines. GREAT at schooling shows, but not quite enough to move up from there. SO buyers looking to show in recognized shows should be cautious in this respect. What I always loved was they had the mind to do just about anything.

luv my paint
Mar. 13, 2012, 12:02 AM
I have 2 registered American paint horses. One is my hunter and the other my jumper /eq horse ( well before she got hurt). Both have done well on both the local circuit and the A shows ( when I can afford them). My little gelding even has blue eyes! They are definatley not hack winners but so really well over fences and have no trouble making the strides. They do have to move a bit more than a 17 hand warmblood but that is to be expected as they are both a bit under 16 hands. The best thing about them is their minds!

My Mare :
http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=2612971608643&set=t.1134004826&type=1&theater

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1090263853514.16024.1134004826&type=3#!/photo.php?fbid=1090264893540&set=a.1090263853514.16024.1134004826&type=3&theater

My gelding :
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1090270573682.16027.1134004826&type=3#!/photo.php?fbid=1090275653809&set=a.1090270573682.16027.1134004826&type=3&theater
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1090270573682.16027.1134004826&type=3#!/photo.php?fbid=1090270653684&set=a.1090270573682.16027.1134004826&type=3&theater

Plumcreek
Mar. 13, 2012, 02:20 AM
Thank you everyone for your input. This horse I believe is halter bred, you can trace his lines back to Impressive. .

OP, If you and your trainer like the horse enough to buy, you should check the papers for a HYPP test status or verify that parents/grandparents tracing to Impressive were HYPP N/N status. If not or unknown, invest $30. in a HYPP test as a condition of purchase. (Assuming you are correct that he does have Impressive in his pedigree, and he looks like he could).
http://www.horsetesting.com/HYPP.htm

(And please no HYPP trainwrecks. Lots and lots of horses with Impressive in their pedigrees are out there performing and living normally. But it is prudent to know their status before making a purchasing decision, and understand how to manage diet and potential issues if they are NH. )

LochNessD
Mar. 13, 2012, 02:40 AM
QHs with some halter horse bloodlines, like I imagine this horse has ( from his name), may have a more warmblood-like open shoulder and higher neck set, allowing them to use their front end better over fences, than if they were pleasure horse bred. Some of the more recent HUS bloodlines, like 'These Irons are Hot' and 'Allocate Your Assets', (along with the older and already very successful over fences 'Skys Blue Boy' get), have the higher neck set and their foals will be interesting to watch over fences.


Yup. My QH had Impressive (HYPP negative! Wouldn't have touched him otherwise!) VERY close in his pedigree -- grandsire. He cleaned up in the hack and he won the O/F too when I could find my spots. He was one of the best movers I've ever sat on. He was a tragically awkward 14.3, but didn't have a problem making the strides for the 3' rateds and could take one out if he felt like it.

He wasn't what I would consider bulky and most people assumed he was a full-barrelled TB.

His h/j career ended at age 8 because of mystery lameness problems, never pinned down even after we dumped thousands into diagnostics and therapeutic treatments.

Brutus614
Mar. 13, 2012, 10:00 AM
The pictures you shared remind me a lot of my horse! He is an Impressive grandson bred for halter and we were very successful at local shows -- up to 2'6". He's pretty short (only 15.1) but was able to get down the lines.

If you and your trainer like him, I don't see why you can't be successful. Just depends on your goals and what you are looking for in a horse :)

P.S. Just watch out for those huge shoulders... they are tough to fit a saddle to!

TesignedInGold
Mar. 13, 2012, 10:09 AM
P.S. Just watch out for those huge shoulders... they are tough to fit a saddle to!

No Kidding! :eek: My QH rides in a wide saddle, and his shoulders are huge. I like the look of a muscular, large-framed horse better then a weedy one, so the QH look doesn't bother me a bit.

His stride is large enough that he normally does not have trouble getting down the lines, although he has to move out just a tad bit more then a taller, bigger-strided horse would have. (my guy is just shy of 16 hands..)

And yes please test for HYPP. Many QH's have the results right on their papers. My guys has his negative results both on his AQHA papers as well as his palomino papers.

Sparky Boy
Mar. 13, 2012, 10:15 AM
I probably have one of those unpapered WBs that has a lot of QH in her. Regardless, I love her. She has done well in lower level hunters.

Do you guys find that most QHs are built fairly straight behind and eventually end up with jock and stifle issues? I've looked at a few lately and that's been my concern.

paintedrain91
Mar. 13, 2012, 10:28 AM
In the sales ad it says he's HYPP/NN. The owner has been very open about the horse. But since I don't know her, I'm not sure if I should trust that he doesn't have it. He is registered, so if the owner has his papers I'll ask to see them.

TesignedInGold
Mar. 13, 2012, 11:43 AM
I probably have one of those unpapered WBs that has a lot of QH in her. Regardless, I love her. She has done well in lower level hunters.

Do you guys find that most QHs are built fairly straight behind and eventually end up with jock and stifle issues? I've looked at a few lately and that's been my concern.

Stifle and Hock issues can be an issue, but again, conformation varies by individual horse. If i like it, and its not a deformity, I can cope with it. There isn't any individual horse, of any breed, that is conformationally perfect. Whether they are too straight behind, or slightly over at the knee, toe in a bit, have long pasterns, flat feet - there's always something not perfect. You just have to decide what you can deal with and what you can't.

My QH is 15 this year, and has never had any joint injections or things of that nature. Yes, he is built straight behind, but regular work, and an oral joint supplement have worked for him. Occasionally, when its cold, he is stiff behind and requires a bit longer of a warm up. When the time comes that he needs injections, I will invest in them. But for the time being, He is doing just fine on a preventative (or maintenance) oral supp.

Kristy-nnn
Mar. 13, 2012, 12:42 PM
My little QH had a GREAT jump. I never really showed him much because he was my first horse and I hadn't gotten into showing yet, but he basculed over even the little 2' jumps like nobody's business. I'm not sure what his breeding was, but this boy had no problems getting his knees up and square. I schooled him up to 3'6 but he probably would have maxed out in the 3' ring if I had shown him. Definitely not a hack winner, but I think he would have pinned pretty well o/f because I have rarely seen a horse crack his back and be so careful over little jumps like this guy.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n269/Roo-B-Tuesday/Roo/over%20fences/jumpingroo09-22-0712.jpg

Plumcreek
Mar. 13, 2012, 12:46 PM
QHs can be a little straight behind. That puts additional stretching stress on the cunean tendon, and pressure on where the cunean tendon crosses over the front of the hock (more bend in the hock = less pressure against the front) and can agrivate hock degeneration. If the CT is really tight, compensation can cause back and hip pain. Please read this old thread in the Reference section about a solution for resulting stiffness, back pain and hock pain. This is the link to page 2, start there, then read page one.
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29839&page=2

paintedrain91
Mar. 13, 2012, 08:28 PM
I went ahead and asked the owner about the HYPP/NN, and she said that she has his papers. She also informed me that QHs must be tested when they are registered, so I'm glad that I won't have to worry about HYPP.

I had another question, related to my OP. The owner has worked extensively on slow, slow, slow. She has him doing the short western jog, and I'm wondering if its possible to teach the horse to collect (like for sitting trot) but not jog. Also, if he could be taught to step out, and trot more huntery. I tried to post a picture of him trotting out a little more when he was on the lunge line. I saw a little bit of the nice trot when he was set loose in the ring and driven a little more forward. But if I were to collect him, would it be difficult to keep him from reverting back to the short jog?

Has anyone had experience "retraining" a western trained (slow jog, slow canter) horse to do hunters?

Thank you for all your replies. I'm really starting to get a bit excited for this horse. I'm just worried that my trainer won't like him. She's more the WB, TB type person and took one look at his picture and said "Oh, he's a QH alright!" with a little bit of rolling of eyes. I haven't been able to show her any good pictures of his trot/canter, so I'm hoping when we go up to see him she'll be more open, and not focus on the breed. Plus he hasn't really jumped (owner isn't sure if he has been over x rails or not, and he is a little anxious with new things) so I won't know if he has a decent jump to sway her opinion or not. :/ I really trust her opinion, so I really want her to like him.

Brutus614
Mar. 13, 2012, 09:25 PM
When I bought my QH he was trained western. I had no trouble getting him to move out. I concentrated first on forward movement and then worked on a collection.

If he doesn't have any experience jumping you might try taking him over a very small (under 18") cross rail during a trial ride or even put him through a jumping chute to see if he wants/has the ability to jump. That's what i did with my guy.

If you can give me the horse's registered name I can look him up on AQHA and tell you his HYPP status and if he has any points, if you want.

ToTheNines
Mar. 13, 2012, 09:34 PM
He is cute, and please keep in mind this is just ONE opinion and I am by no means an expert. And this is from the pictures you posted ONLY! BUT, in those pictures, I am not seeing a lot of stride. If you go see him, see if you can get him to step up under himself more and have more reach in the shoulder too.

paintedrain91
Mar. 13, 2012, 11:42 PM
Brutus614, I PMed you. :)

I think I will really have to work on the forward movement. I think the current owner was misrepresented to and got over horsed. She is a novice rider who mostly does trail, occasional halter/pleasure classes, and ground work. Added to that he is a young horse and from what they tell me a little nervous, but I'm sure with consistent everyday work he'll work out of that. But anyway, since he was a little nervous and tends to then get fast they have overdone the slowslowslowslow. So getting him to go forward, but not nervous fast will be a challenge I'll bet.
I'm not sure I'll be able to set up a chute, as they seem to be a mostly western or general pleasure trail barn, I only noticed a few poles and standards. The owner took him over a "1ft pole" (I'm guess it was a vertical about 1'? not quite sure) but probably on the ground. I'm not sure I'd be able to set a jump chute up. Also I've never done a chute, it would be two horse people, who have never done a chute, trying to send a somewhat nervous horse who doesn't really understand jumping quite yet over a jump with little or no 'wings'. I can see us freaking the horse out and problems down the road if I do buy him, and try and ride him over a small xrail.
Any suggestions on how to do a chute with limited poles/standards (seriously, I think I saw maybe 3 standards and 4 poles, that looked pretty weathered and possibly broken) are welcome.

I'm no expert either, I don't know where to begin with getting him to step under himself and reach in the shoulder (stepping under would be the appearance of the opposite back/front legs almost touching in the middle of the trot stride? / \/ \<--that sort of in the middle? those are legs, by the way, lol).
I think also, since his owner was using one of those natural horsemanship long lead ropes with leather popper on the end could cause him to be a little stiff and not step out as much. I think the lead was about 12/14ft long, and at the trot she had a bit of slack in her hand. I get the feeling that this is her regular way of lunging him. I did notice on the right side he didn't step out as much as the left, but someone pointed out to me that it could be due to the short "lunge line".
(Please no critique on these, this is just to show the range he had while lunging)
http://i40.tinypic.com/do2ed1.png ~Trot
http://i41.tinypic.com/2gw9ixu.png ~Canter

I will be having my trainer come with me, so hopefully she'll be able to see whether or not he can step out and under more.

ohrebecca
Mar. 14, 2012, 12:10 AM
He is cute, and please keep in mind this is just ONE opinion and I am by no means an expert. And this is from the pictures you posted ONLY! BUT, in those pictures, I am not seeing a lot of stride. If you go see him, see if you can get him to step up under himself more and have more reach in the shoulder too.

I absolutely agree with this. I haven't seen a lot of commentary on this actual horse, rather just "QHs can do it, yes." I've ridden some QHs (appendix and full) who were fine h/j, and some who weren't. I would personally pass on this one unless he REALLY surprised me in when I went to see him.

findeight
Mar. 14, 2012, 11:51 AM
IF you are looking for one SPECIFICALLY to do the H/J and SPECIFICALLY want to show at anything above the very local level (where all they have to do is get around and be safe)?

I would pass on this SPECIFIC QH.

He does not appear to have much step. He has a steepish shoulder and hip, not alot of neck and it is set a bit low. He has a bit of a straight hip (which matches his shoulder) and is amost gooserumped.

These things are consistant with both the desired angles in QH Halter types and the little itty bitty pitty pat steps of the rail horse. That is not surprising since that is what he, and his line, were bred for.

He is just not a Hunter...and I have had a real good appendix QH Hunter successful on the National level at AA rateds-but he was not built like this. But my AQHA and APHA WP, Trail and Western Riding horses (that won at high levels) WERE built like him.

Fact, if I wanted another one of those, I'd be out there to look at this guy with my checkbook and the vet on call. Really, I really like him...just NOT for a Hunter. Kind of square peg, round hole for the Hunters there. And I think he is too nice a peg to try to make him fit where he was not built to go.

He reminds me of my old horse, Dewitt Bar Jr (by Dewitt Bar by Three Bars), that showed as Junior Bonner on the old AHSA west coast circuit in Trail, WP and some Horsemanship. He was a pistol...and something tells me this one is too...and I like that. But he was no Hunter then and would not be one now.

alto
Mar. 14, 2012, 12:12 PM
^ This :yes:

You haven't mentioned why you're drawn to this particular horse rather than one that is already trained in your intended discipline - if it's budget related, consider that by the time you've invested in retraining, you will have spent alot more $$ AND time.

I have seen working QH's re-trained, some much more successfully than others, but it is not a project of a few months.
And if your trainer is not enthusiastic about the project & you really want to stay with this particular trainer, let her guide you in choosing a horse that will work for both of you.

Don't try to set up a jump chute when you try this horse, either ride him to some jumps or set up a lunge jump IF he is well trained on the lunge (& not that short version) - actually a much better idea, would be to trailer him to your trainer's barn & run him through a jump chute there if you really want to assess this horse.

paintedrain91
Mar. 14, 2012, 03:46 PM
Thank you for the critiques on this specific horse, I appreciate them.
Do you think, with work he could learn to step out? It's just at the moment that his owner and the person riding him are mostly into halter, trail, and wp (they've had him about 3 years). So they are really focusing on wp, short strided, slow jog. Could it be possible to retrain him? Even with the angles mentioned?

The reason I like this horse is because he is in my price range and I am looking for a challenge, for a horse to work on. I don't expect to cart him off to a show in a few months, in fact I doubt he'd be ready by then if I decided to buy him. Additionally he's super comfortable, fits my size, and I can really feel my lower leg connecting around his barrel and feel as though I had a good position on him. I'm not quite sure if its just that I don't ride often or my body type, but I have so much trouble being able to really get my lower leg around and on the horse. I've always had this problem, my leg either hangs below the horse's belly, or I have to stick my knee out at a crazy angle in order to get that contact. I'm not completely interested in shows, I had gone 8 years in between one series and the recent ones and would be happy just to enjoy my horse for a couple years. I just want a horse that I can have the satisfaction of having trained (in this case to jump and stride out I guess). So when I take him to a show and we do well, it'll be that much better for me. Also, I want a horse to enjoy, trail ride, and just go see and care for everyday. I wouldn't be getting a horse to turn around and resale after I had retrained. I hope this isn't confusing or sounding false, I know what I want in a horse but its difficult for me to put it into words.
Also, even though I would be putting a lot of money into a project horse and could possibly just get one already trained for almost the same amount of money it just wouldn't be as fun I think. I want a challenge, I've been riding seasoned experienced horses since I started riding. I want something to work on, have a goal to really work towards. I understand this could be done equally with a trained horse (again, explaining in words is not easy for me) but I don't want one I can turn around and just do everything with. I want to work towards that, and have the satisfaction when that happens. Additionally, I won't be the one paying for most of this (no crit please), my parents will be. They are typical non-horsey people turned only because their daughter is horse crazy. They know basics, like how not to act around horses but that's sort of it. They are looking at the current, and a high price tag is alarming to them. (again no crit, I have talked this whole thing over with my parents. I understand upkeep and emergencies and so do they).

So, the reason I am attracted to this horse, he's comfortable, nice price tag, project potential, fits my body type/height, and as a plus he's easy on the eyes. Plus I have always loved QHs for their kind and easy going personality and thickness. Which is why I have been reluctant to get a TB (although I am looking into going to see a few).
If my trainer tells me upfront that he would never work for hunter, then I will put this to bed and try to look elsewhere. I'm just frustrated that my trainer is so TBTBTBTB for me, and doesn't seem to want to think about any other breed. She seems just as biased against QHs as I am against TBs. I have yet to meet/ride a TB who I can feel with my lower leg, isn't spooky or hot headed, my lower leg doesn't hang too far down, and I don't care for their thin stick like necks/body. I'm not trying to turn this into a debate about TBs vs QHs, I'm just trying to provide as much info about myself and my horse search as possible.

Plumcreek
Mar. 14, 2012, 05:44 PM
OP, Maryland is the land of the stallion, Sky Blue Walker. Search out some of those, as they are what you are describing, but are also hunter types. You might also contact the Professional Auction Services people, the Jenings Family, also in your area, and keep them on the lookout, as they know QH hunter types.

Brutus614
Mar. 14, 2012, 09:21 PM
I can definitely appreciate where other posters are coming from with concerns about his striding. Personally, in light of how short of a line he was on when the photos were taken, I think it's hard to know what he's really capable of.

I think the next time you go to see him, definitely take your trainer. Ask to ride him, and try to push for an extended trot down the long side of the arena and see what you get.

As for jumping, if you're not confident about setting up a chute, just set up a small jump and trot over while riding. Your trainer will be able to recommend what all to try, based on the responses you get from the horses.

Try to always keep in mind your goals, and ask yourself if you think this horse will truly be able to accomplish them. Take your trainers opinion seriously -- there are a lot of horses in today's market and passing on this one won't mean you will never find one.

Goals of showing locally (unrated) in the 2' - 2'6" is much different than showing 2'6" - 3' at rated shows. In my experience, unrated shows tend to set lines on a 10' stride, versus the typical 12', which makes a difference.