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ayrabz
Mar. 7, 2012, 09:00 AM
Mats are also (!) ordered and on their way for the washrack area. My 'corner counter' of corian will be installed here, and I'm going to sink two posts on the opposing corners to accomplish the support for this L shaped counter (think 7.5 ft. on each 'L')...and want to also use these posts for the cross tie area.

So, aside from being pressure treated: can you advise: how far under ground / cement? and how tall? and how 'big' (circumference) of posts I need to use?

thanks!

Guilherme
Mar. 7, 2012, 09:17 AM
Mats are also (!) ordered and on their way for the washrack area. My 'corner counter' of corian will be installed here, and I'm going to sink two posts on the opposing corners to accomplish the support for this L shaped counter (think 7.5 ft. on each 'L')...and want to also use these posts for the cross tie area.

So, aside from being pressure treated: can you advise: how far under ground / cement? and how tall? and how 'big' (circumference) of posts I need to use?

thanks!

Minimum of 6x6 posts, 8x8 is better. Set them with 1/3 of the total length in the ground, encased in concrete. Above ground height might vary with horse size, but I would think 6'-6.5' would be adequate. If you need a larger amoung above ground I'd increase post size to maybe 10x10 as you will be creating a significant lever with the greater height.

If you're going to use these things they must be strongly made and strongly set.

Our crossties are 3/4" soft laid, marine, nylon rope with the ends whipped. You can buy this at TSC or at any marine supply store. The hardware is a 5/8" or 3/4" eyebolt that is drilled through the post and secured with a washer and nut.

In 15 years this system has never failed. :cool:

G.

Watermark Farm
Mar. 7, 2012, 02:37 PM
I just put in a washrack. The posts are fairly big (I think 6x8). They sit 6' above the ground, and 3' below. We dug extra big holes for the concrete. I used safety cross ties with a velcro release. The crossties are mounted at about 5'6"

Damrock Farm
Mar. 7, 2012, 04:27 PM
I can tell you only one thing. A 15 hand, 1000 pound horse can break a cemented (4' underground, 6 feet above ground, tie at top of post) 6X6 post off AT THE GROUND and go running away with it when they are scared and the quick release snaps don't work. The result was over 200 stitches in the right front leg, twice daily vet visits for ten days to wrap and reassess, three months stall confinement, two more in a small 20X20 paddock, and a HUGE vet bill! The horse did end up fully recovering, but it was a long and expensive process.

My advice, no matter what you build, they can and will break it. To this day, every tie on my farm has a piece of baling twine at the wall ring with the tie hooked to it. As my vet says, better a loose horse, than a dead one!

Chestnut Run
Mar. 7, 2012, 05:17 PM
What Damrock Farm said!

I always tie my horses with a single strand of bale twine between the ring/screw eye and the crosstie/tie.

My most recent wash rack, was made from 4x4s. 6 feet above ground, 4 feet below, no cement.

Sheila

ayrabz
Mar. 7, 2012, 05:26 PM
thanks all. I've gotten great suggestions and information!!
yes, I realize any horse can break almost? any thing!

but I am trying to put these posts in 'right' for the needed/desired use, so I do really appreciate the size and depth and height suggestions!

baling twine is the easy part. Knowing what size/depth/type to create the posts is the concern!

ThisTooShallPass
Mar. 7, 2012, 06:06 PM
I have telephone posts.

Oh, FYI, telephone posts can & do rot out. So make sure you pick over the pile & get the good ones. ;)

Guilherme
Mar. 7, 2012, 06:53 PM
I can tell you only one thing. A 15 hand, 1000 pound horse can break a cemented (4' underground, 6 feet above ground, tie at top of post) 6X6 post off AT THE GROUND and go running away with it when they are scared and the quick release snaps don't work. The result was over 200 stitches in the right front leg, twice daily vet visits for ten days to wrap and reassess, three months stall confinement, two more in a small 20X20 paddock, and a HUGE vet bill! The horse did end up fully recovering, but it was a long and expensive process.

My advice, no matter what you build, they can and will break it. To this day, every tie on my farm has a piece of baling twine at the wall ring with the tie hooked to it. As my vet says, better a loose horse, than a dead one!

Well, maybe.

Consider that horse breaks your strings, runs into road, is hit by car causing driver to lose control. Car hits tree, resulting in driver fatality. Now you have a dead horse, a dead human, and a big lawsuit.

Or, horse breaks your strings and runs down a small child who's not quick enough to get out of the way. Child is left brain damaged. Now you have a live horse, an impaired child, and a big lawsuit.

Or horse sits back (because now its learned that force produces freedom). A barn mate is walking behind horse at a safe distance when horse plunges back. Horse strikes barn mate causing serious but not fatal or permanant injury. Now you have a live horse, an injured person, and a big lawsuit.

Maybe tying to stay tied is, in fact, a good idea?

G.

Damrock Farm
Mar. 7, 2012, 08:23 PM
I agree to a point. All of my horses are TRAINED to stand tied, I don't just tie them and hope they stay there, nor am I willing to risk them hurting themselves by tying them to something unbreakable. This was a new mare and I knew better, but like everyone does sometimes, I got complacent and thought it was ok. She was frightened by the BO's three German Shepherd dogs running around the corner of the barn. (I later found out that she was pretty much afraid of everything, especially the horse-eating chickens, lol). I didn't count on panic snaps not opening properly, which is what happened. One opened and when it did, she jumped sideways and broke the post off at ground level and ran off with six feet of 6X6 treated post banging around between her legs. She ran several hundred feet with it attached to her before the snap finally let loose and it fell off.

Yes, all of the scenarios you describe are possible. I think the possibility that a horse who is tied fast could get seriously hurt are much more likely. My vet, when he made that statement to me after sewing my mare back together, said he had seen two horses flip in cross-ties and break their necks. Both tied fast, both dead. He has a state-of-the-art equine surgery and every single tie ring in the place has a piece of baling twine tied to it.

CFFarm
Mar. 8, 2012, 04:42 PM
When we moved in to the farm there was two 4 X 4's already set in cement (clothes line?) just about the perfect space apart. There is 6 ft of post showing above ground. So there is at least 2 ft, (4x4x8) or 4 ft (4x4x10) under ground. I put mats between them and use that area for cross ties and a wash rack since it is outside. My ties for the horses are stretchy rubber so if they freak there is some give. For the rescue pony I use lengths of old rope that break because she sometimes gets scared and pulls back. The horses stand quietly in cross ties. Haven't had any problems and the posts are plenty strong. Unless you have misbehaving drafts, I would think 4 x 4's would work just fine, but I the bigger the better I guess.

MistyBlue
Mar. 8, 2012, 04:51 PM
I never cease to be amazed at how strong and stupid horses can be.

One that really stumped me was a horse that spooked and took off with a 350 pound stall door bouncing along next to it! Owner tied it to the stall door, horse spooked, set back spun and bolted and door came right off the track and went with the horse...horse was at a gallop like the door didn't weigh a thing! And it was holding that door up with it's face! Holy shite, that was scary...astoundingly the horse had a few halter marks on it's face and a stiff neck for 48 hours, that's it. :eek: Granted this was a pretty big horse, but not a draft with the humongous head and neck.

So yeah, make your posts thick and I sink mine 4' with 4-5' above ground depending. If you can have the posts pounded...do that. Holds the best IMO. If not, cement and brace. And when cementing, make hole wide so cement is wide. And pack, pack, pack the backfilled dirt around it. Then dampen it and pack it some more. :yes:

Guilherme
Mar. 8, 2012, 05:23 PM
I agree to a point. All of my horses are TRAINED to stand tied, I don't just tie them and hope they stay there, nor am I willing to risk them hurting themselves by tying them to something unbreakable. This was a new mare and I knew better, but like everyone does sometimes, I got complacent and thought it was ok. She was frightened by the BO's three German Shepherd dogs running around the corner of the barn. (I later found out that she was pretty much afraid of everything, especially the horse-eating chickens, lol). I didn't count on panic snaps not opening properly, which is what happened. One opened and when it did, she jumped sideways and broke the post off at ground level and ran off with six feet of 6X6 treated post banging around between her legs. She ran several hundred feet with it attached to her before the snap finally let loose and it fell off.

Yes, all of the scenarios you describe are possible. I think the possibility that a horse who is tied fast could get seriously hurt are much more likely. My vet, when he made that statement to me after sewing my mare back together, said he had seen two horses flip in cross-ties and break their necks. Both tied fast, both dead. He has a state-of-the-art equine surgery and every single tie ring in the place has a piece of baling twine tied to it.

The scenarios I gave you are not just "possible." They've all actually happened.

Your vet is taking an enormous risk to himself, his employees, and possible bystanders if he's engaging in this practice. It's his risk to take, of course, but that doesn't make it wise.

G.