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View Full Version : Denny Emerson between rounds---rant!



Batteries Included
Feb. 21, 2004, 07:02 PM
So this is a rant and a little on the long side but it angered me: winkgrin: (you can get away with reading the end I just had to put my reasons for the eventual rant


So I was all excited to get my first issue of COTH (Feb. 13 issue) I flipped through it and gave it to my mom when I saw a picture I wanted to cut out (I do this with all my magazines) and she said hey read this article...
I read it and tell me if I’m wrong but isn’t the idea of the between rounds with anyone suppose to enlighten your horsy mind, not trash kids and their parents???
So this Denny character (I really don’t care who he is in anyone’s world right now but he's on my list as of now)...and my little "counter points" are all mostly from today alone...

" Usually, being a horsemen is the result of having spent enormous amount of time around horses. But modern American children aren't in a position to do this even if they wanted to."

My first reaction- excuse me, I was just the barn and finished schooling 8 horses over fences and handing them off to other people and telling them what the horse is like, how they should ride them and I come home to some guy telling me I don’t know what I’m doing?!?! (and for most of these horses it was my first time riding them as well as the person I handed them to, it was an IHSA show)and I offered to help at this show because I’m nice like that

"Parents and children become commuter horse people, lucky if they spend two hours a day in actual proximity of a living horse."

my reaction- two hours??? try all day (on weekdays, after school right to dinner time)

"That means that children don't get up in the morning and feed their ponies. They don't clean stalls. They don't scrub the slime out of the water tub. They don't turn out the pony, bring him in, change his blanket, pick out his feet, select his feed, or lug hay bales."

my reaction- who does this guy think he is? (by now I was really aggravated with this Denny guy)...what children is he talking about?...every day I feed my horse, clean his stall and other stalls, scrub slime, bring the pony in and out, pick his feet out (that one o found kind of random), change his blanket (way too much, stupid weather changes), pick his feed and lug hay bales as well as throwing them into the hay loft (we don’t have a nifty thing that does it for us, we have arms and muscles for a reason!?!)...by now I was kind of grr mommy for asking me to read this...

yet there’s more...

"One way for suburban children to acquire some kind of hands-on exposure is to become a member of a local pony club, and organization with goals and philosophies geared toward helping children acquire real horsemanship skills."

my reaction- I only recently joined pony club, I’m unrated (as most of you know from other posts) and I have been doing just about everything pony club offers (with the exception of rallies and stuff like that) with out having to own a horse, or be obligated to something that you might not always be able to go to (don’t get me wrong I love pony club its fun!)

this guy is getting on my bad side...

"Another reason has to do with an attitude shift that sees manual labor as somehow demeaning. Lots of kids don’t mow the lawn. Why should they? A lawn mowing service comes to do that. They don’t wash the car. That’s what car washes are for. And they don’t groom their horses. That’s what grooms are for, isn’t it?"

my reaction- I mow the lawn. I think its fun (I do ask my parents i will mow the lawn willingly) I wash the car. i enjoy that too (i cant even drive a car , an besides car washes scare me )and this groom business...(no offence to those who are grooms) but children should groom their own horse, i mean i help my friends if they are running behind, and a professional usually has other horses to ride and things to do but children, come on

all right i will stop but trust me i could go on, and on and on. this article really made me mad...very mad...i don’t think anyone should be aloud to write something this degrading to so may people and get away with it?!!? ...i have calmed down a lot from when i read this the first time and i am sorry if i made anyone mad from my anger but ahh!

sorry it ran longer than i thought

-Caroline

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
~*I am just your ordinary
Average every day sane psycho
Supergoddess -Liz Phair
~*un-rated pony clubber and PROUD!
~*O'Connor obsesser extraordinaire!...lol (you have to know me to really get it)
~*pony ride gone lesson kid gone barn bum gone hunter gone jumper gone eventer gone horse owner gone pony clubber gone crazy!

[This message was edited by Batteries Included on Feb. 25, 2004 at 03:01 PM.]

Batteries Included
Feb. 21, 2004, 07:02 PM
So this is a rant and a little on the long side but it angered me: winkgrin: (you can get away with reading the end I just had to put my reasons for the eventual rant


So I was all excited to get my first issue of COTH (Feb. 13 issue) I flipped through it and gave it to my mom when I saw a picture I wanted to cut out (I do this with all my magazines) and she said hey read this article...
I read it and tell me if I’m wrong but isn’t the idea of the between rounds with anyone suppose to enlighten your horsy mind, not trash kids and their parents???
So this Denny character (I really don’t care who he is in anyone’s world right now but he's on my list as of now)...and my little "counter points" are all mostly from today alone...

" Usually, being a horsemen is the result of having spent enormous amount of time around horses. But modern American children aren't in a position to do this even if they wanted to."

My first reaction- excuse me, I was just the barn and finished schooling 8 horses over fences and handing them off to other people and telling them what the horse is like, how they should ride them and I come home to some guy telling me I don’t know what I’m doing?!?! (and for most of these horses it was my first time riding them as well as the person I handed them to, it was an IHSA show)and I offered to help at this show because I’m nice like that

"Parents and children become commuter horse people, lucky if they spend two hours a day in actual proximity of a living horse."

my reaction- two hours??? try all day (on weekdays, after school right to dinner time)

"That means that children don't get up in the morning and feed their ponies. They don't clean stalls. They don't scrub the slime out of the water tub. They don't turn out the pony, bring him in, change his blanket, pick out his feet, select his feed, or lug hay bales."

my reaction- who does this guy think he is? (by now I was really aggravated with this Denny guy)...what children is he talking about?...every day I feed my horse, clean his stall and other stalls, scrub slime, bring the pony in and out, pick his feet out (that one o found kind of random), change his blanket (way too much, stupid weather changes), pick his feed and lug hay bales as well as throwing them into the hay loft (we don’t have a nifty thing that does it for us, we have arms and muscles for a reason!?!)...by now I was kind of grr mommy for asking me to read this...

yet there’s more...

"One way for suburban children to acquire some kind of hands-on exposure is to become a member of a local pony club, and organization with goals and philosophies geared toward helping children acquire real horsemanship skills."

my reaction- I only recently joined pony club, I’m unrated (as most of you know from other posts) and I have been doing just about everything pony club offers (with the exception of rallies and stuff like that) with out having to own a horse, or be obligated to something that you might not always be able to go to (don’t get me wrong I love pony club its fun!)

this guy is getting on my bad side...

"Another reason has to do with an attitude shift that sees manual labor as somehow demeaning. Lots of kids don’t mow the lawn. Why should they? A lawn mowing service comes to do that. They don’t wash the car. That’s what car washes are for. And they don’t groom their horses. That’s what grooms are for, isn’t it?"

my reaction- I mow the lawn. I think its fun (I do ask my parents i will mow the lawn willingly) I wash the car. i enjoy that too (i cant even drive a car , an besides car washes scare me )and this groom business...(no offence to those who are grooms) but children should groom their own horse, i mean i help my friends if they are running behind, and a professional usually has other horses to ride and things to do but children, come on

all right i will stop but trust me i could go on, and on and on. this article really made me mad...very mad...i don’t think anyone should be aloud to write something this degrading to so may people and get away with it?!!? ...i have calmed down a lot from when i read this the first time and i am sorry if i made anyone mad from my anger but ahh!

sorry it ran longer than i thought

-Caroline

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
~*I am just your ordinary
Average every day sane psycho
Supergoddess -Liz Phair
~*un-rated pony clubber and PROUD!
~*O'Connor obsesser extraordinaire!...lol (you have to know me to really get it)
~*pony ride gone lesson kid gone barn bum gone hunter gone jumper gone eventer gone horse owner gone pony clubber gone crazy!

[This message was edited by Batteries Included on Feb. 25, 2004 at 03:01 PM.]

Pol
Feb. 21, 2004, 07:56 PM
Caroline, RELAX. I didn't read your entire rant because it was a bit...ranty. Obviously, Denny (Mr. Emerson to you) hasn't met you. If he had, I feel quite sure you would not have been included in his gross generalization. Mr. Emerson has been riding, training and competing horses since *LONG* before you were born. If he wants to write an article regarding the changes he has seen in how children learn about horses, he is entitled to it. Take a deep breath, be GLAD you know how to scrub slime out of a water bucket, be grateful that you have your pony in a place where you can decide what it eats. That is a gift and a priviledge. Fewer and fewer children now-a-days are as lucky as you.

ThirdCharm
Feb. 21, 2004, 07:58 PM
Kudos to you for being an extremely atypical American teen. I am surprised that you do not realize it. Since you are so hardworking why do you take the article as a personal attack? How about your friends who are "running behind" and need help to get their horses groomed? How many actual hours per day do they spend at the barn? Do you not realize that the REASON that there are hundreds and hundreds of "full care" boarding facilities across the country, and a lively cottage industry of "will ride for free" juniors and amateurs, not to mention trainers charging significant fees, is because many, many horsepersons (including jrs) do not have the time and/or inclination to care for their own horses or provide them with the amount of exercise they need? I have lost quite a few students because I require students to tack up their own horses, and the kids don't want to bother with the 'boring part'.

Furthermore, very, very few "modern american children" live within reasonable distance of a barn where they can even AFFORD to take riding lessons, or have parents who are inclined to drive them back and forth on a daily basis. Especially not drive out to the barn, leave kid for a few hours so they can work off a lesson, drive BACK to the barn near nightfall to pick them up.... come on!! Even if every kid that lives in the suburbs (the vast majority of kids live in the suburbs or the city in case you didn't know) could go to the barn RIGHT after school (and don't even get me started on how lucky to have a parent or friend's parent who is available to chauffeur you around after school instead of having to be at WORK), and got home RIGHT before dinner, that would be about two hours a day because of the travel involved. Just because you're blessed doesn't mean you have to be blind.

And what in g_d's green earth is wrong with the comment about pony club? It doesn't say anything about having to have a horse and cites it as one way for kids to get hands-on experience!

JenniferS

Jeannette, formerly ponygyrl
Feb. 21, 2004, 08:01 PM
A tip:

Sentences which begin "Kids today" (or "riders today" or "trainers today" to name a few) are by their very nature generalizations.

Often the next sentance begins "When I was a kid/a trainer/a rider, we..." and there will be a recognizable but quite possibly stretched grain of truth there.

When that second sentence does not involve walking through snow drifts to school uphill both ways, the generalization may very well be less of a stretch.

This does not mean it will apply to everyone in the mentioned group, but just because it doesn't describe everyone perfectly does not mean there is not at least a grain of truth in the generalization.

In this case, I'd say count your blessings, and note that in Denny Emerson's book (look up his resume, he's done a thing or two over the years http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) you are more likely on the path to becoming a real horseperson than many kids are...

Enjoy your Chronicle! It is often (always?? usually??) full of interesting and thought provoking articles.

Of course, back when I was a kid.....

NeverTime
Feb. 21, 2004, 08:06 PM
Caroline, from one of the many people who knows and respects Denny, let me say that he would eat you alive.
Yes, he's a cynic when it comes to girls and their horses -- and that comes through in some of the hyperbole in this editorial -- but he is that way for a reason: Because he's been taking in young people like you as working students for the better part of 30 years (what's that, twice your lifespan?) and he knows from experience the vast gap between what teenagers (and adults, for that matter) know and what they *think* they know. He knows the vast gap between how quickly a horse or rider can truly learn new things and how quickly a rider expects she will become an expert, if she doesn't already think she is one. He knows the VAST gap between what most people picture themselves doing ("galloping across the green at Badminton") and the amount of work and heartbreak they are actually willing to put in to get there.
Your reaction to his editorial feeds *exactly* into what he's talking about.
That you are quite confident, for example, that you can school 8 IHSA horses you've never ridden before and know in the span of 15 minutes or a half hour exactly what kind of ride each needs, would testify quite clearly to that point of his. No offense to your skills, but most experienced and non-egomaniacal horse people would admit they can't do what you can.
What if a more experienced horseperson, say a trainer you respect, had come up to you and suggested that your analyses of these horses were off? Would you defer to that person and listen to what he had to say, realizing his experience is far greater than yours, or would you say "I don't need some guy telling me I don't know what I'm doing!"?
His editorial is meant to get you and hundreds of other riders thinking.
You, apparently, are one of the lucky people who has a living situation that allows them to spend hours upon hours at the barn, and you have apparently made smart choices -- such as joining Pony Club, catch-riding a variety of horses and being involved in day-to-day horse care -- to take maximum advantage of the lucky situation you are in to build your knowledge and skills. (If you don't think you're lucky when you're out sloggy through mud and snow at 6 a.m., trying to cut frozen bailing twine loose, imagine how much unluckier you'd be to have a job or other obligations that prevented you from seeing your horse every day and spending all that quality time.)
Clearly, you are an intelligent young lady who has been given, and has taken, excellent opportunties to expand her horse skills and knowledge.
But your reaction to this simple editorial begs the next question: Will you continue to learn by taking in various people's input, digesting it reasonably and gleaning from it what new information you can, or will you chose to stroke yourself and your perception of your skills, refuting any advice or experience that doesn't jive with what you already know and assuming you know more than more knowledgeable horsepeople around you?
PS, if you're curious as to who Denny is, go to his Web site at tamarackhill.com

welshcob
Feb. 21, 2004, 08:19 PM
I personally happen to think D.E. is spot-on for many many "riding people". Especially those who board, don't have horse facilities at home, and perhaps have lives that encompass other activities besides riding .....

Not ALL horse people would fall in this category. You seem to think he is talking about you personally......

D.E. is truly a wonderful spokesman for eventing and horsemanship. It would behoove you to know a bit more before you fly off the handle and act like you've been personally attacked!!!!

huffily.....welshcob

Batteries Included
Feb. 21, 2004, 08:29 PM
i now realize he posts on these boards and was wondering if anyone could give me his sign-on so i could apoligize http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sadsmile.gif???

-Caroline

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
~*I am just your ordinary
Average every day sane psycho
Supergoddess -Liz Phair
~*un-rated pony clubber and PROUD!
~*O'Connor obsesser extraordinaire!...lol (you have to know me to really get it)
~*pony ride gone lesson kid gone barn bum gone hunter gone jumper gone eventer gone horse owner gone pony clubber gone crazy!

ESG
Feb. 21, 2004, 08:39 PM
Oh, honey, relax! You're acting like this article is directed at you personally. Grow up. He's not talking about you. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

From what I gleaned of your excerpts of Mr. Emerson's article, I agree with him 1000%. I've been a professional in this business for seventeen years and an amateur for a lot longer than that, and I have seen and agree with every point you listed from his article. Kids don't have sufficient exposure to everyday horse care to make them horsemen. They're riders at best, and dabblers at worst. You seem to be the exception to this, yet your credibility is compromised at your umbrage at his article. In short, you "doth protest too much". And to borrow another apt platitude, "if the shoe fits, wear it". If it doesn't, just ignore it and go on about your business. If you keep taking offense at every generalized article written about young people in the horse business, you'll stress yourself into either a heart attack or a whopping case of ulcers. RELAX! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

lilblackhorse
Feb. 21, 2004, 09:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Batteries Included:

My first reaction- excuse me, I was just the barn and finished schooling 8 horses over fences and handing them off to other people and telling them what the horse is like, how they should ride them <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gifWith that kind of ego at what, 14?, I am sure that you will be ready to go be a working student for "This Denny Guy" (who does he think he is??? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)....I would bet that being a working student at Tamarack would clean some of that chip right off that inflated shoulder of yours.

Elippses Users Clique........"I hate stall rest" and Grammar Nazi Cliques

"What the fuh?" Robby Johnson

SayCheese
Feb. 21, 2004, 10:09 PM
OMG!!! Let her be mad and have her own opinions. If she thinks that Denny Emerson is NOT the be all and end all of the world just be reading one article then let her. And who cares that he is such a great rider. What does that have to do with anything. Why should she say, "Because he is such a good rider he is completely justified in writing something I find offensive." She obviously felt strongly enough about the article to write a RANT about it and personally I don't think that being a great rider should have anything to do with changing her opinion. If she doesn't like the article she doesn't like the article. period.

BI, think whatever you want to think!

-Alison

SayCheese
Feb. 21, 2004, 10:27 PM
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifDo I kill a rant or what!? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

-Alison

Mariequi
Feb. 21, 2004, 10:30 PM
Sweetie, I'd recommend you getting hold of a bunch of past Chronicles and reading lots of Denny. I think you'll start respecting him. And there was a lot of truth in what he had to say - but no, not for everyone. Certainly not me and most people I know, but they're out there. And there's wanting to do those things that really make you a horseperson and not being blessed with that lifestyle. I lived in NYC area for a while and my horse was in SC. I saw what sort of limited time I would've had. I would've missed the opportunity to much a stall... There are those like me and those that wouldn't miss that in the least. Do not take it personally. Look at all aspects of what Denny was saying. I see that people he's talking about.

JAGold
Feb. 21, 2004, 10:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SayCheese:
And who cares that he is such a great rider. What does that have to do with anything. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In this case, Denny's experience and perspective give him the credibility to write such an article. If it came from from someone who hasn't accomplished what he has, given back to the sport what he has, and been exposed to so many different kinds of horsemanship, I might be skeptical. But coming from Denny or his peers, who frankly are few and far between, I take this article seriously.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Originally posted by Batteries Included:
Othis article really made me mad...very mad...i don’t think anyone should be aloud to write something this degrading to so may people and get away with it?!!? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Caroline, the article wasn't a letter to you. It was a wake-up call intended to make riders, trainers, and parents think. There are lots of people out there, children and adults, who are very good horsmen, and Denny would be the last to discredit those people.

Nonetheless, if you insist on taking the article personally, then go ahead and feel smug, because you are ahead of the game compared to the poor fools who don't throw hay bales every day.

But if you are ready to be a grownup and thinking horseman, think about Denny's article differently. Think about what you still have to learn, and what unexpected ways there might be to learn it. Think about what has allowed you to become a knowledgable horseman, and how you can share those opportunities with other people. --Jess

KO
Feb. 22, 2004, 05:57 AM
I clicked into your post thinking it would be a good discussion of some horse and/or eventing related issue. But I am really ticked off.

You are entitled to your opinion about things but it annoys me that you are using a "rant" post to brag about your horsemanship skills and all the hard work you do. I don't consider this a worthwhile issue to discuss. And no, I did not miss your point, it's how you made your point that annoyed me.

In addition, please think before you write and be polite. I'm sure you are a nice, hard-working young girl but you need to get the facts before you speak (or write) and then show some respect to the person with which you are disagreeing.

Robby Johnson
Feb. 22, 2004, 06:04 AM
The article would be directed at being a proper horseman. The development of horsemanship skills is usually the product of an individual who wants to learn and wants to care for and ride horses.

Many individuals want to just ride and compete. And for them, they are usually in a position to pay someone else to do the dirty work for them.

Conversely, many individuals make their living off of the folks who will pay, so they keep the horsemanship skills/expertise at arm's length from said clientele (very "Holy Grail" like) in an effort to perpetuate a living for themselves.

Escuchen y repeaten ...

"Symbiosis."

So if you're offended by Mr. Emerson, I'd say you should re-read the article and then think about it from the angle we've all presented here.


Robby

So I'm a sistah, buy things with cash
It doesn't mean that all my credit's bad

http://community.webshots.com/user/rbjohnsonii

Sannois
Feb. 22, 2004, 06:18 AM
Denny is my Hero, and always has been. He is DEAD right about alot of the up and coming horse folk in this country! I'm old 45 and have ridden and had horses all my life, and I can tell you, I still would go muck stalls for that man to get 1 hour of his wisdom on a horse! Get over yourself batteries, Be happy you feel you are not one of the ones he is referring to. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" Benjamin Franklin, 1755
Founding member of The Fossils over Fences Clique!

Sannois
Feb. 22, 2004, 08:04 AM
By the way, I cant seem to find the article, Anyone have a link I dont get the magazine any longer. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" Benjamin Franklin, 1755
Founding member of The Fossils over Fences Clique!

deltawave
Feb. 22, 2004, 08:10 AM
Batteries, if you think "all day" is between school and dinnertime, wait until you get into the "real world" where "all day" means 6am until 9pm sometimes. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I applaud your ability, at 14, to "school 8 horses over fences" and have them all figured out. The fact they are school horses and ridden by all manner of people? I will let that pass. When you can do the same with 8 green ones off the track, with no supervision, give Denny a call.

I know you're 14...nobody here really expects a 14 year old to be a complete horseman, believe me. When you put yourself across as one, though, you make a fool of yourself. When you take offense at an article written by someone most of us consider a superior horseman, you make a fool of yourself. Humility is something we all learn one way or another...either it is forced on us by circumstance or we make it a part of growing up. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

---------------------------------------------
"If you think your hairstyle is more important than your brain, you're probably right." Wear a helmet!
Pictures! (http://www.deltawave.homestead.com/photos2.html)
Helmet Nazi, Bah Humbug, Mares Rule, Breed Your Own and Michigan cliques!

LBlue
Feb. 22, 2004, 08:24 AM
I am not sure why you think that article was directly written to yourself?

Also, if you want to apologize to Denny, you should not do it "because he posts here," but rather because you made unrational conclusions about this article and posted them publicly on a bulletin board.

I am just out of the teenage years (20), but I get so sick of 14 and 15 year olds coming on the board ranting about ridiculous things because they think the world revolves around them (remember the USEA rant?). THINK before you say/write.

fargonefarm
Feb. 22, 2004, 09:08 AM
I second all of the responses here, and would add this: I'm a trainer that teaches a lot of kids. I do not see the "barn rats" from my generation (and I'm only 27). I do not see the kids who want to spend all day at the barn because they really want to be there. I can count on one hand (and I don't even need all of the fingers on it) the number of kids at my barn who are as dedicated as I was. Denny is right - they just don't make em' like they used to. However, there are a precious few who ARE dedicated and DO take it seriously. I honestly don't believe that Denny was labeling ALL kids the same way, but let's face it - this is the current trend.

That being said, I'd like to add this. A lot of parents nowadays sign their kids up for about a zillion afterschool activities, and in a lot of cases, horseback riding is just one of many. In my experience, the riding lesson is usually on the way to the soccer game for these kids. So no, the single-minded dedication is not there. I really wish parents would stop insisting that their children be involved in every activity under the sun and let them focus on one or two. Not ten. I hate to say it, but parents carry a bit of the blame here for pulling their kids in a thousand directions.

OK horsey parents. Sorry. Bring it on http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif

Riding: the art of keeping a horse between you and the ground.

barbaraG
Feb. 22, 2004, 09:13 AM
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Sweetie,

If you need to call him, "this Denny Guy" you just might want to do some homework and actually find out who you are talking about! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Everyone on this board knows me, so I won't bore you with the facts of my own efforts in Eventing, which are only indirect, for reasons I won't explain.

As I've said, I don't want to bore you! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif But here's a little story.

Mr. Emerson came up to me at an Event once and said very quietly,

"Thank you for all you do."

Did I want to jump up and down??? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Did I want to Hug him and Cry for Happy?? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

You can bet your little shinny butt I did!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

But I didn't dare....I don't know him That well.

"Thanks, Denny...I'm just putting it back!" http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

BarbaraG
GWV/ Lots older than you! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Batteries Included
Feb. 22, 2004, 09:17 AM
you all are saying Mr. Emerson was trying to get peopel to think...
am i no longer entitled to think??
it got me thinking that there isnt any respect for the kids (and people for that matter) who do all the dirty work and have fun doing it.
in no way shape or form was this 'rant' targeted at Mr. Emerson personally just like the article wasnt directed to me but that doesnt chage the fact that the good kids who do everything themselvs (most of it anyway) are under apreciated and my point was that there are good kids out there and not everyone is a snob and people can do things them selves.

-Caroline
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
~*I am just your ordinary
Average every day sane psycho
Supergoddess -Liz Phair
~*un-rated pony clubber and PROUD!
~*O'Connor obsesser extraordinaire!...lol (you have to know me to really get it)
~*pony ride gone lesson kid gone barn bum gone hunter gone jumper gone eventer gone horse owner gone pony clubber gone crazy!

barbaraG
Feb. 22, 2004, 09:24 AM
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

How about being a little grateful and humble for the chance you have?? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

BarbaraG
GWV/ http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

ThirdCharm
Feb. 22, 2004, 09:25 AM
See BarbaraG's post if you think Denny (or anyone else for that matter) doesn't respect the people who do the dirty work. What in that article gave you that impression? One quote would be sufficient.

It doesn't take a careful reading of the article to discover that if any disrespect is intended (and I thought it was phrased fairly matter-of-factly), it is to those who label themselves Horsemen without, in fact, having much experience with the 'dirty work'. I'm sure those of us who have been in the horse world a few years remember the lively discussion of an Olympic rider who couldn't even wrap her horse's legs? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

JenniferS

Batteries Included
Feb. 22, 2004, 09:32 AM
if people out there respsct those who do the dirty work, why arent there articles in big name magizines about them? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif why does it seem like all articles floating around today are to put people down...sure some peopel deserve to be put in their place in a bad sort or way but what about those who deserve to be put in their place in a good way???

-Caroline
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
~*I am just your ordinary
Average every day sane psycho
Supergoddess -Liz Phair
~*un-rated pony clubber and PROUD!
~*O'Connor obsesser extraordinaire!...lol (you have to know me to really get it)
~*pony ride gone lesson kid gone barn bum gone hunter gone jumper gone eventer gone horse owner gone pony clubber gone crazy!

melting_mochi
Feb. 22, 2004, 09:40 AM
All I can say is that I'm 17 years old and spend all day on the weekend at the barn (including working at another barn as a groom for money for training at the other barn!). I go to the barn after school every day, even on days when I am not going to ride (when my horse has the day off, has been ridden by my trainer, etc.). At school I am still thinking about horses, and I am going to spend my summer as a working student in Europe.
So, I too take offense to what Denny said. I don't know an enormous number of riders my age, but those that own horses are as dedicated as I am. There are some who take riding lessons at school barns once a week, but they aren't expected to be this dedicated. I was one of them for awhile and didn't have anywhere near enough things to do!
There was a thread on another board about this. I said that I hate how some parents will buy their kid a pony or horse just because they want to learn to ride. I also don't like how parents will fill their kids' lives with zillions of activities.
I am lucky that I live within 20 minutes of my barn, that my parents support me (my mother is now leasing a horse! but she, might I add, is less dedicated than i am. she won't go up to the barn when it is raining...hehe). I am also lucky that my parents aren't pushing me to go to college right away (instead, I will be a full-time working student) and that they never crammed my day with activities. In fact, it took them long enough to let me ride!
Besides, IMHO, Denny's a dumb name anyway http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

"If the place I wanted to arrive at could only be reached by a ladder, I would give up trying to arrive at it. For the place i have to reach is where i must already be."
*Akhal-Teke clique*
*Mighty Thoroughbred clique*
*Bullsnap-haters clique*
*Double dilute clique*
*Eventing clique*

fargonefarm
Feb. 22, 2004, 09:43 AM
There are eventing "heroes" - the EMT's are my personal favorites. Volunteers too. What makes them good and "heroes" is that they don't NEED to be listed in a magazine to know that they are appreciated. A simple thank-you from us goes a lot farther....

No disrespect, my friend, but let's move on. You can prove your point in a better manner by continuing to work hard and improve your sport.

Riding: the art of keeping a horse between you and the ground.

wanderlust
Feb. 22, 2004, 10:07 AM
mochi, you and I are going to have a little history lesson the next time I am at CTETA.

We'll see if you feel the same way after our little chat... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

~formerly Master Tally~

KO
Feb. 22, 2004, 10:08 AM
Melting--you had my support all the way until the end of your post where you made a comment about Denny's name. It seems you don't have much respect for people either.

A large part of being a superb horseperson is about demonstrating character. That one little comment at the end of your post tells me you have a long way to go.

Batteries Included
Feb. 22, 2004, 10:49 AM
KO- and saying someone cant be themself and make a little joke tells me something about you http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif aparently you dont have much respect for people yourself

-Caroline
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
~*I am just your ordinary
Average every day sane psycho
Supergoddess -Liz Phair
~*pony ride gone lesson kid gone barn bum gone hunter gone jumper gone eventer gone horse owner gone pony clubber gone crazy!

Heather
Feb. 22, 2004, 11:09 AM
Wow. Just Wow.

If this is the future my friends, we are doomed.

Ya know . . . ah, to he!! with it. These kids won't get it, and I'll just be spitting in the wind.

Scootie
Feb. 22, 2004, 11:47 AM
"There was a thread on another board about this. I said that I hate how some parents will buy their kid a pony or horse just because they want to learn to ride. I also don't like how parents will fill their kids' lives with zillions of activities.
I am lucky that I live within 20 minutes of my barn, that my parents support me (my mother is now leasing a horse! but she, might I add, is less dedicated than i am. she won't go up to the barn when it is raining...hehe). I am also lucky that my parents aren't pushing me to go to college right away (instead, I will be a full-time working student) and that they never crammed my day with activities. In fact, it took them long enough to let me ride!
Besides, IMHO, Denny's a dumb name anyway"

Mochi,

If you were my daughter and you just wrote something like that, you would cease to have permission to set foot in a barn again until you turned 18, at which time I would no longer have any say in the matter.

Can we say, "not very well rounded". None of my daughter's peers that I knew were "having their day crammed with activities", but only got to pursue one or two interests at any given time and usually not simultaneously, MAYBE. Currently I'm the one leasing a horse and my daugher is not riding at all. But that's because she is pursuing an education that will serve her well no matter what else she opts to do in life. She's also done a lot of different things (by choice) in her 20 years, include ride and be a "barn brat", is conversant on almost every subject, and I'm proud of all the things SHE has made herself to be.

I'm with your Mom on one thing. I don't go to the barn when its raining either. I have my reasons for that just like she does, which are none of your business, as are hers. Lets just say that adults have more complex lives than most teens can ever imagine. It certainly does not make either of us "less dedicated", no matter what you want to think.

Founder and president of the No-Legged Rider Clique

Scootie
Feb. 22, 2004, 11:59 AM
My first reaction- excuse me, I was just the barn and finished and I come home to some guy schooling 8 horses over fences and handing them off to other people and telling them what the horse is like, how they should ride themtelling me I don’t know what I’m doing?!?! (and for most of these horses it was my first time riding them as well as the person I handed them to, it was an IHSA show)and I offered to help at this show because I’m nice like that


Just wanted to add that I would NEVER do business with any barn that had 14 year olds "schooling...horses over fences and handing them off to [me]and telling [me] what the horse is like, how they should ride them". Partly just on principle, but MAINLY why would I pay good money to let somebody else's child be doing what I should be learning to do myself.

Just curious, does the IHSA actually permit this sort of thing? It seems there would be liability issues.

Founder and president of the No-Legged Rider Clique

lilblackhorse
Feb. 22, 2004, 12:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by melting_mochi:
I am also lucky that my parents aren't pushing me to go to college right away (instead, I will be a full-time working student) *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Wow--all I can say is wow. I really hope that you find yourself in a working student position at Tamarack Hill working for that "Denny person"....he'd clean your entitled little clock.

What IS it with some of these younger people? Do they think they are the only ones who have ever worked to get somewhere?

I love BI"s idea of "all day"...all day after school until mommy comes to pick her up for dinner which mommy made. Hmmmm--last time I worked all day in a barn it was 4 am to 7 pm, and I was buying and making my own meals (if I got them).

BI...you were preaching to the choir at first about people working hard....but the disrespect shown for someone who has paid their dues though professionalism for far longer than you've been alive accounts for a lot here.

Mochi---may you find a WS position where they can wipe that little chip on your shoulder away too with sweat and elbow grease. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Heather, I so concur. Is this the future of our young riders now? It scares me.

Elippses Users Clique........"I hate stall rest" and Grammar Nazi Cliques

"What the fuh?" Robby Johnson

SayCheese
Feb. 22, 2004, 12:28 PM
I dont think that this is very productive. I agree that there are some good ideas...like looking at the article in a different light and seeing what there is to learn. But....if people keep insulting BI, than she is going to be WAY less open to accepting your ideas. From personal experience, as a teenager, I, too, would get very defensive if somebody insulted me. I think anybody would (human nature, perhaps, DEFENDING yourself and your ideas?). There is probably a lot to be learned from reading this BB, but the original poster will never benefit from them if you don't stop insulting her already existing horsemanship skills!!

-Alison

paintgirl
Feb. 22, 2004, 12:53 PM
I have noticed all the trends mentioned in Denny's article, as well. I have been riding for 37 years, and grew up taking care of 2 horses who werent mine,FOR FREE, in order to ride them.I spent every waking hour at the barn when not at school. Years later, I cannot find a single teenager in my area to help at my barn,for pay or not. I have retired event horses who would love to go out when I ride, and I would gladly teach someone who showed an interest. I live in a very privileged area, and all the young people do seem to go to the mall for fun. There are exceptions, of course, but on the whole I agree with Denny.

GatoGordo
Feb. 22, 2004, 01:05 PM
Gosh, if most teenagers have ready access to horses every day, I must be an anomaly. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif I live in the 'suburbs' of Washington, D.C., and the closest barn I have ever ridden at was 15 miles away. 30 minutes travel time each way. I now ride 22 miles away, or 45-50 minutes travel time on average -- less on the weekend, sometimes more on the weekday. Last time I checked, my dad had a full-time+ job that he can not afford to take off from early more than a couple times during the week. Last time I checked, going there after school and getting back by 9 meant that I only spent a couple hours at the barn, and the most I've had time to ride at this new barn is 2 horses + feeding, and even then we were hiking up the hill in the dark. Last time I checked, I still got a lot more riding time than many girls at my school who would be interested in riding, but their parents aren't interested in the commute time and cost.

I have had the experience of grooming my own horse and those of others, scrubbing the slime out of water buckets, feeding, blanketing, and picking more feet than I could count. That does NOT mean that I would not give my left arm for a summer as a working student with a trainer such as Denny, and I probably will try to find such an arrangement when I am a little older. I am still a rank novice. And, no, since I have never owned or full-leased a horse, I have never been in a position of deciding what to feed a horse. Count yourself lucky that you even have a horse at age 14, because, like it or not, someone over 18 has to sign those handy things like ownership papers, boarding contracts, and checks, and many horse-crazy teens are unable to find someone willing to do all that, no matter how many hours of work they put in. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The Law of Unintended Consequences is a brutal law, and you should at least know when you are going to piss her off. - DMK
Eventing Yahoo In Training http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

barbaraG
Feb. 22, 2004, 02:28 PM
http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

Well, Folks

I think our little friend BI still doesn't "get it" http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

But, I'll tell you, if the good people at COTH ever decide they need an article on the GWV, I will certainly make time for them. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

Mostly to thank people like Denny, Bruce and all of you out there....from Canada, to Kentucky, from Maine, to Massachusetts and back again for all the help, encouragement and support you have given me and the GP through the years in this Sport! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

BarbaraG
GWVhttp://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ALF
Feb. 22, 2004, 02:53 PM
BI - people are picking on you because you just told them the Emporer has no clothes. They'll get over it.

Edited to add - most of the people doing the picking are adults. Tres cool.

frugalannie
Feb. 22, 2004, 03:11 PM
Aww, gee whiz. This is a most uneventer-like thread. I think we all need to sit back, don our panty hose, and those of us who are of age can pop a beer.

GWV, you and the GP are the salt of the earth and part of the fabric that makes eventing in Area I such a blast. You definitely deserve an article and LOTS of public acclaim, but then the secret would be out, and everyone would try to steal you! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I think the world of Denny Emerson, too. I perceive him to be thoughtful and articulate, as well as totally committed to improving the sport of eventing from teaching riders to breeding the best sporthorses possible to taking on thankless tasks in various organizations to tweaking one's sense of complacency. I applaud his effort at putting in print what many whisper in aisleways of barns after the beers have been passed.

And to Batteries, Melting, Paintgirl, Gatogordo and others who are the exception to the person described in the article, that's his point: you ARE exceptional. Probably 30 years ago, you wouldn't have been , but now you are. So pat yourselves on the back: you're living the life he feels the majority of riders should at least realize that they aren't living, and as a result having less of a chance to become true horesmen. And in case my syntax was too muddled in that last sentance, I'm saying that you are in the process of becoming a true horseman (not to be sexist in the terminology). You're probably much further along than I am after living with horses for 30 of my adult years. (There will not ensue a discussion of just how old I am! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif nor how slow a learner I am) Think of how much more you'll know 5, 10, 20 years out with the effort you're putting in. Good for you!

cinnabar
Feb. 22, 2004, 03:36 PM
The one thing that keeps bugging me...BI, for a young rider who claims to be so involved in the sport, you’ve obviously made no effort to acquaint yourself with the history of eventing, its core, influential horse people, and how eventing got to where it is today. I don't look at this as a homework assignment, but as a passionate curiosity to find out what makes our sport tick.

As a brief aside, there's a high school girl at the barn where I'm keeping a horse for the winter (to use the indoor...ice be gone!). Earlier in the week, I suggested to her mother that they attend a saddle-fitting demo at a local tack shop, since they've had fitting problems with the girl's horse. They went, and while the mom thought the presentation was quite interesting, the young lady found it boring. I really was appalled. This is a girl who wants to major in horses in college, and she's bored by a saddle-fitting demo?!?! Such a presentation could help her overall horsemanship, not to mention her own horse. I just don't get it..but what a good example of which Denny spoke. It's about wanting to learn, needing to learn, and recognizing when you don't know something.

BI, please recognize that you may be a fine exception to the kind of young people to which Denny referred. You're indeed lucky to have such opportunities! However, if you're going to continue in horses, I suggest that you learn some tact and humility.

[This message was edited by cinnabar on Feb. 22, 2004 at 06:56 PM.]

kmk
Feb. 22, 2004, 04:02 PM
I vote to remove this from here, this is written in two different areas...and since this is about a person I dont think it is very polite.......

Kristine ~ owned by two silly, silly tb's

fargonefarm
Feb. 22, 2004, 04:08 PM
Awww... come on people. Enough! Let the two girls who don't like adults (yet inevitably will be adults soon enough - so there!) play their games. Let's let it go... or at least move it to the H/J forum.... Just for fun http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

Riding: the art of keeping a horse between you and the ground.

JenEM
Feb. 22, 2004, 04:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Scootie:
Just wanted to add that I would NEVER do business with any barn that had 14 year olds "schooling...horses over fences and handing them off to [me]and telling [me] what the horse is like, how they should ride them". Partly just on principle, but MAINLY why would I pay good money to let somebody else's child be doing what I should be learning to do myself.

Just curious, does the IHSA actually permit this sort of thing? It seems there would be liability issues.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wandering over from H/J-land http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif, I'll answer this. I'll leave the rest of the issue, since I replied to it on Off Course.

At Intercollegiate shows, riders from other colleges come into the host college's barn and ride that barn's horses. The morning of the show, the horses are warmed up by (nonshowing) riders from the host barn. Because my college's stable was the college's private stable, it was always other college students doing the warming up, but if a college used a private stable, I imagine it would be possible/probable for the stable to have some of their other advanced riders aiding in the warming up. At the IHSA shows I helped with/rode at, the warm-up rider wasn't the one imparting information to the rider for the class, who draws their mount's name from a hat. Information on the horse is generally summarized in paperwork given to the team coaches, and is usually very, very basic (ie, needs a crop, simple changes only). IHSA is a great way of testing a rider's ability to get on a horse without warming up on it, and proving how well they can (or can't http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) ride in a show situation.

Scootie
Feb. 22, 2004, 05:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JenEM:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Scootie:
Just wanted to add that I would NEVER do business with any barn that had 14 year olds "schooling...horses over fences and handing them off to [me]and telling [me] what the horse is like, how they should ride them". Partly just on principle, but MAINLY why would I pay good money to let somebody else's child be doing what I should be learning to do myself.

Just curious, does the IHSA actually permit this sort of thing? It seems there would be liability issues.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wandering over from H/J-land http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif, I'll answer this. I'll leave the rest of the issue, since I replied to it on Off Course.

At Intercollegiate shows, riders from other colleges come into the host college's barn and ride that barn's horses. The morning of the show, the horses are warmed up by (nonshowing) riders from the host barn. Because my college's stable was the college's private stable, it was always other college students doing the warming up, but if a college used a private stable, I imagine it would be possible/probable for the stable to have some of their other advanced riders aiding in the warming up. At the IHSA shows I helped with/rode at, the warm-up rider wasn't the one imparting information to the rider for the class, who draws their mount's name from a hat. Information on the horse is generally summarized in paperwork given to the team coaches, and is usually very, very basic (ie, needs a crop, simple changes only). IHSA is a great way of testing a rider's ability to get on a horse without warming up on it, and proving how well they can (or can't http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) ride in a show situation.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks, Jen. Like I said, I was just curious as to how this worked. Since I know almost zero about how IHSA runs their shows, thanks for explaining. It all makes sense now. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Founder and president of the No-Legged Rider Clique

Daydream Believer
Feb. 22, 2004, 06:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Heather:
Wow. Just Wow.

If this is the future my friends, we are doomed.

Ya know . . . ah, to he!! with it. These kids won't get it, and I'll just be spitting in the wind.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heather, I couldn't have said it better. I already flamed this poster on off course so I'll refrain from doing so again. I see she hasn't learned much. Too bad. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

"No hour of life is lost that is spent in the saddle..." Winston Churchill

Jaegermonster
Feb. 22, 2004, 06:08 PM
I remember when I was 14, Denny Emerson was THE MAN right up there with Bruce Davidson and all the other Gods of eventing. I thought highly of him then, and now that I am 5 in dog years, I still think highly enough of him and his opinions that I took my mare from Fl to his farm in VT to breed to Reputed Testamony. (and got an awesome filly for my troubles BTW) And usually I think that he is mostly right on in his articles as he was in this one.
However, lets not let a little girl with a very limited view of the world get everybody in a dither. She is one of those that has to learn the hard way.
That said, I am curious too..what is Mr. Emersons' user name? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

When the going gets tough, the tough grab mane and kick on!

ALF
Feb. 22, 2004, 06:13 PM
Denny-poo doesnt get any points for originality.

lilblackhorse
Feb. 22, 2004, 06:14 PM
ewww, I turn 6 in dog years next week. How sad is that? His screen name is Denny--big suprise that he'd use his name...he and Mike Plumb and Wofford....all heroes to me to.

Elippses Users Clique........"I hate stall rest" and Grammar Nazi Cliques

"What the fuh?" Robby Johnson

starman
Feb. 22, 2004, 07:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kmk:
I vote to remove this from here, this is written in two different areas...and since this is about a person I dont think it is very polite.......

Kristine ~ owned by two silly, silly tb's<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I second the vote...this thread is totally uncalled for. I was a working student for Denny, as many people in the eventing world have been, and I can say that we have had our differences, but I still respect him and his wisdom.

People teach eachother how they want to be treated...So, you BI and M_M have taught us that yall want to be treated with the same respect that yall have shown your elders. Reality is a bitch aint it. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

hmmm...my sig fits nicely into this thread http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif and I believe this quote goes to anyhing we do in life...riding or respecting.

"For things that we must learn to do before we can do them we learn by DOING THEM!" -Denny Emerson

Mariequi
Feb. 22, 2004, 07:07 PM
I think any hardworking teenager who thinks Denny is speaking of him/her is missing the point. I'm not coming back to this thread. Period.

LisaB
Feb. 23, 2004, 05:35 AM
BI and Mochi, lesson learned? Don't bash people's names. I'm sure you've had your share of being called names. It's not nice. And it makes you sound like a jackass.
Yes, you two are very hardworking individuals. We don't question that. BUT you have to take the blinders off. Look around you. Do you see other kids riding as much as you?
And Denny comes from a background of not riding in the arena around and around in a circle, jumping over jumps that fall. He was out there, hunting, galavanting, having a real feel for the horse and the terrian. Can't teach that in an arena. So while you are riding 8 horses a day for a few hours in the arena, think about how different this horse would be riding him for 4 hours over 50 miles of open terrain.
And do be a working student for a veteran. You'll understand what he's talking about.
And don't bash people's names.

cccdaly
Feb. 23, 2004, 08:42 AM
I happen to know BI very well and, while she is far from perfect, she is a darn good kid who really does work very hard to make herself a better horseperson and to learn how to take better care of the horses in her charge. She is grateful most everyday for the gifts she's been given and her horse is in better condition now than he has ever been.

But, she is only 14. Please don't criminalize her for taking offense at Mr Emerson's calling ALL kids today lazy and spoiled. He didn't bother to mention that SOME kids are doing it right these days, and BI fell for the bait.

At BI's barn, there are indeed a few spoiled riders, but many of them do anything and everything in order to learn all they can about horses and their care. They come to the barn every day they're allowed to. They travel to saddle factories, to equine massage centers, to equuine rescue barns, to gymkhanas, and trail rides and hunter paces. They show up at the barn at 4:30 to feed the horses before a show, they scrub buckets all afternoon, wash moldy tack, pick rocks, pick stalls, pull manes and clip ears and chins. They hold horses when their hocks get injected or the farrier comes. And, if they are very lucky, they are honored by being able to warm up horses for the college kids.

BI is the beneficiary of FANTASTIC trainers and staff at her lesson barn and she knows that! Yes, they teach her how to ride, but they've also taught her how to bandage, how to poultice, how to clean sheaths, how to take a horse's temperature and respiration, how to recognize bad hay, how and when to change bits, etc., etc., etc....

BI and many of the the others in her group are an extremely dedicated group that take every possible opportunity to learn and do more with horses. They are all aware that there is always more to learn and do all they can to do so.

Mr. Emerson claims to be worried that there will be no good candidates to take his place. BI's trainer is already doing that. Moreover, there were 67 "A" or "HA" pony club graduates last year many of whom will soon be ready to move into full time training. And, for the generation after that, I've no doubt that BI will be ready.

Mr. Emerson may not be able to see this because these kids are not the ones participating in every show in the region -- they're all at the barn -- working!

(or babysitting, or mowiing the lawn, or washing the car so they can afford to go to a show).

Yes, BI should apologize to Denny Emerson for "bashing" his name. AND Mr. Emerson should apologize to BI for bashing her generation, as should all of you.

melting_mochi
Feb. 23, 2004, 08:45 AM
I respect adults as they respect me. And I know who Denny is.
We are all being pretty immature here. Why don't we just leave this alone and stop putting each other down?

"If the place I wanted to arrive at could only be reached by a ladder, I would give up trying to arrive at it. For the place i have to reach is where i must already be."
*Akhal-Teke clique*
*Mighty Thoroughbred clique*
*Bullsnap-haters clique*
*Double dilute clique*
*Eventing clique*

rileyt
Feb. 23, 2004, 09:13 AM
Wait a second.

I don't think Denny "Bashed" anyone. That's why I think this thread has gotten so many of us hot under the collar... He didn't BASH anyone, and thus the bashing that is taking place, under the guise of "defensive bashing"... is really offensive.

Read his column again. I don't think he's saying all kids today are lazy. If that's what you're taking from the article, I think you need to re-read it.

I think his message is perfectly clear... the circumstances that surrounded the production of many fine horsemen, back in the day, are now gone. It's not that kids today can't still grow into fine all-around horsemen,... but its harder.

And I think, to the extent that kids (or adults) who train one or two horses then go out and call themselves "horsemen"... well, Denny's taking issue with that. I think that's fair.

It's harder because, unlike 40 years ago, where a higher percentage of the population grew up in and near rural areas,... most of us today live in the suburbs.

I am one of those people Denny discusses, who lives in the middle of suburbia... I commute an hour a day to work, and it takes me at least a half-hour (in no traffic) but an hour at any reasonably time of day, going the other way, to get anywhere near horse country. Is he bashing me? No. He's making pointed observations that someone like me, who works a non-horsey job, and spends 3 1/2 hours a day COMMUTING, between work, home, and horse... will never have the time and mileage around horses to become a truly gifted horseperson. In Denny's eyes, and I can't say I blame him, our best horsepeople come from environments where they care for 30 horses, every day all day,... and they ride at least 6 or 7 per day.

How can you argue with that logic? It doesn't mean the rest of us aren't responsible, knowledgable horse owners. But it does mean, that, realistically, I'll never be Denny Emerson. I'm OK with that. I love horses, I love riding, I know how to wrap, clean sheaths, give injections, and ride and school lots of different types of horses. But I'll never be a terrific horsewoman unless I'm willing to give up some things in my life, and devote myself full time to the profession.

And no, taking wonderful care of my one horse does not make me a horseman of the ilk Denny is discussing. It makes me a good horseowner. And that's good enough for me for right now. Denny isn't insulting me. He realizes everyone has priorities. Mine are not to be the next Denny Emerson (though that would be nice!). They're to be the best rider, and horseperson I can be in the 10 hours a week I have to devote to the sport. And that's good enough.

lilblackhorse
Feb. 23, 2004, 09:29 AM
well said Riley.

Elippses Users Clique........"I hate stall rest" and Grammar Nazi Cliques

"What the fuh?" Robby Johnson

ball park
Feb. 23, 2004, 09:43 AM
There were several things about the article that struck home. I commute 45 minutes to work, and 35 minutes in the opposite direction to the barn. My time is limited and I am an adult beginner who lacked horse knowledge to pass on to my daughter, but never wanted the experience for her to be "horse as machine" or her view to be that the undersaddle time was the only time or skill worth developing. However, I was fortunate to be introduced to pony club, which had a wealth of knowledge and a great system for passing it on.

I have frequently said that in our area, anyone can get decent instruction and become a good rider, but that pony club helps those riders who want to become horsemen. I'm glad to see someone like Mr. Emerson acknowledge what I view as pony club's primary contribution to the equine community.

tle
Feb. 23, 2004, 09:50 AM
VERY well said Rileyt... others (*cough-BI-cough-MM*) should understand this topic as well. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

************
If Dressage is a Symphony... Eventing is Rock & Roll!!!

"All's well that ends with cute E.R. doctors, I always say." -- Buffy

Gry2Yng
Feb. 23, 2004, 10:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Electric Tape:
BI - people are picking on you because you just told them the Emporer has no clothes. They'll get over it.

Edited to add - most of the people doing the picking are adults. Tres cool.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ET - you seem very fond of this expression. Try to use it more judiciously and appropriately.

My memory may be failing me, but as I recall Karen and David were both working student's at Denny's farm. Interesting that a self-proclaimed ~*O'Connor obsesser extraordinaire!... would bash that "denny guy".

I understand the immediate jump to the defensive when you are a member of a group that has been generalized about and don't fit the generalization. Keep up the hard work BI.

As for ET - get a grip. Not everyone that is well respected for their horse knowledge (you seem to have a problem with other horseman from Denny's generation) and states that horsemanship is becoming a lost art is an Emporer without clothes.

Daydream Believer
Feb. 23, 2004, 10:30 AM
I don't take offense at what the original poster had to say as much as how she said it. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif Disagree with what someone says all you want but do it with respect and cordiality. I think her tone was very disrespectful and high offensive to me, a 40 year old adult and a person who knows Denny personally and has the upmost of respect for him. If I were 14 and I got caught writing or saying something like that by my parents about a person regardless of who they were, I would not have been able to sit down for a week. I don't think it's acceptable for anyone to post about someone like that regardless of their age and no, I don't think any allowances should be made for a 14 year old. This is not the place for childish rants.

"No hour of life is lost that is spent in the saddle..." Winston Churchill

Sannois
Feb. 23, 2004, 10:45 AM
Could not have said it better myself Daydream! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif It was very inappropriate http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" Benjamin Franklin, 1755
Founding member of The Fossils over Fences Clique!

retreadeventer
Feb. 23, 2004, 11:13 AM
You know, this message is going to get buried on the fourth page, but honestly, when I read the Denny article, I too sort of got a little piqued at the part where he suggests trainers let kids hang out and learn, take them under their wings, etc.
Wait a minute. Today, with the internet and electronic society, the stuff we used to do to learn when I was young (reading books, working next to people who could tell you) was how we learned. Today, people get a computer and about six months later they are experts on horse care, training, breeding, movement, conformation, management, etc. Kids are instant experts who expect instant gratification. The parents read Equisearch articles at night and come to the barn the next day quizzing (and sometimes lecturing) the trainer, the vet, the horse dentist - folks with a combined total over 100 years of hands on horse experience out in the BARN, not on the screen.
You can't train a kid to be a trainer today. Maybe I'm cynical, too. But it just seems like they simply don't have the educational ability to understand horse training -- to understand the training process. The Rider of the Year article on Bruce Davidson came as close as anything I've read in a long time in describing how horse training goes, what it really means to a truly dedicated horseperson, how it becomes a lifelong pursuit and guides you in so many directions.
Put yourself in the place of a young rider who is really just beginning to understand the importance of having everything in your closet smell like horses. Read the article from her point of view. It makes sense she would wonder about this guy and what he thought of her generation. I wonder about her generation, and I worry we will be handing off our horses to a whole group of no-nothings and internet trainers who have no experience and couldn't recognize a lame horse until it broke down underneath them in the warmup arena after the 4th hour of schooling.
So I'm glad she spoke up. And I think Denny is wrong about trainers taking kids under their wings. We can't compete with the internet, the old way of apprenticing to learn is no longer going to work. Sorry if this is negative but I can't help but be saddened by this subject, no body who runs a stable today can say they haven't had trouble with the instant internet experts walking in the barn and causing havoc.

rileyt
Feb. 23, 2004, 11:27 AM
Are you suggesting that trainers shouldn't take kids under their wings and show them things? Or that no kid today would have the patience for that kind of thing?

I understand your points about the internet, but there are good kids out there (whose parents still tell them to read books, and play outdoors rather than surf the net and watch TV) who will JUMP at the chance to be taken under a trainer's "wing". No, not all of them. I think its almost a part of growing up that at somepoint, every child thinks he or she knows it all. I know I used to be that kid. Humility generally comes with age and experience.

I used to teach, so I know first hand that there ARE kids who are like sponges. Who will hang out in the barn, muck stalls, clean tack, and do general slave labor just on the off chance that they might get to "help" work with a young horse, or assist the vet. They still exist.

retreadeventer
Feb. 23, 2004, 11:40 AM
Yes. I am suggesting that Denny is on cloud nine with his suggestion that trainers take kids under their wings and I am also dismayed -- altho I still hold out some hope -- that kids today don't want to learn at the pace or under the same circumstances WE learned.
Things are very different today in 2004 than in 1971 or 1972 when my generation dreamed of riding and training horses. I don't think the old way will work anymore and we have to find a new way to get these horses trained in the future when our generation, the last hands-on riders, are no longer able to keep getting in the saddle.

ThirdCharm
Feb. 23, 2004, 12:18 PM
I can't agree with that.

You cannot learn how to handle, manage, or train horses from the internet. It takes real-life experience to be able to correctly interpret tips/insights/training methods that you can get, for instance, off these boards. I can write "Let go of your inside rein and use your outside rein" until my fingers fall off, but until a rider FEELS it they are not going to understand or be able to apply the concept. You cannot learn how to wrap a leg, the correct tension of the bandage, how it should look, off the internet. You can't learn the look, feel, and smell of good hay by reading about it.

There will always be instant experts, now they say "Well I read on the Internet" instead of "Well I read in Podhajsky's book". That makes it, IMHO, even more important for trainers to make an effort to encourage those who are willing to make the real effort and put the time in to learn right. I have one young lady who has been a working student for two years now, in that time she has trained one horse from scratch through about to make her Prelim debut, and has ridden quite a few of my horses so she has more than just one equine 'frame of reference'..... this year she is getting a new horse (Prelim is her current horse's limit) to train from scratch (budget, you know), I am helping her get licensed as an instructor and she will start teaching beginners in my program. She wants to be a trainer and she has learned a bit about all aspects of running the barn because she knows that starting out she's not going to be able to pay someone to do everything, so she is happy to learn how to fit a saddle, run a straight wood fence, fix a busted waterline, setup a fence charger, run an augur, jump start the tractor, figure the angles on a gambrel roof truss, etc (You don't get much more well-rounded than that, eh?).

Is she an exception? Heck yes. But IMHO an IMPORTANT part of being a trainer is learning to identify who the exceptions are and encouraging them in any way possible.

JenniferS

Batteries Included
Feb. 23, 2004, 12:56 PM
YES i am back yet again!

at no point at all was i saying that Mr E is a bad person or bashing him or anything he stands for.
it was a simple (yes it started simple until all you people came and made it worse http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif) rant about an article.
It should matter who wrote it. I bet all of you (feel free to take me up on this one)that if the article was left without an author you wouldnt be here to defend it, certenaly not all of you anyway.
I do realize that there are people like those described but there isnt enough attention put to those who arnt like the article says.

and at what point in time did this become a place where i cant say what i feel about a 'famous' person yet you all can say what ever you darn please about me?...show me respect!
in my eyes (yes i am human i have all the parts you all have and FEELINGS need i remind you) this was an article to get people thinking and a chance for kids like me to say HEY WHAT ABOUT US. today there seems to be to much attention put on to what people want to hear, in the horse world and outside. From kids in schools shooting at others to kids not respecting their horses, no one wants to hear eather one. Why not take a break from it all and have a look at good kids.
Yes there will be spoiled milk and rotten eggs every place you go, but there will be good milk that will give you that extra push, and maybe a golden egg thats rare and beautful.
My original point was that there are good kids who dont get the proper respect they deserve.

and no offence, but you are all telling me that you know and respect Mr.E
Well i dont know him or much about him and i cant respect someone who hasnt shown me they deserve it. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
(and i am not going to look up anything about him, i realize he posts on these boards and will most likely read what i am saying, so he has every chance in the world to prove to ME that he deserves my respect. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif)

and as a second note- you all say that i am imature (not openly but i can read between the lines here) and to get a grip. you all should get a grip...you have ALL expessed you opinions here WHY CANT I??? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

i'll tell ya, some people! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

-Caroline
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
~*I am just your ordinary Average every day sane psycho Supergoddess -Liz Phair
~*pony ride gone lesson kid gone barn bum gone hunter gone jumper gone eventer gone horse owner gone pony clubber gone crazy!

rileyt
Feb. 23, 2004, 01:00 PM
Oy vey.

wanderlust
Feb. 23, 2004, 01:16 PM
Caroline, at what point are you going to actually read what people said (instead of reading "in between the lines") and understand that you are welcome to have your own dissenting opinion, but if you want your opinion to be respected, you must state it in a respectful and mature way?

Calling someone who has been on multiple internation teams "that Denny guy" as a way of trying to belittle him and his opinion is anything but respectful. You reap what you sow, darlin'.

BTW- even if the name of the author had never been published, I would agree 100%. In fact, I was thinking of this article yesterday as I watched one of the grooms tack up a 13 hand pony, hand it to another groom while he went to fetch the pony's 10-year old rider's helmet, all while said 10-year old stood there and WATCHED the entire process. Then he pulled down her stirrups, tightened her girth, and gave said 10-year old a leg up. Trust me, said 10-year old has perfectly functional arms and legs. I just roll my eyes and shake my head, because 98% of the kids and teens that ride out of the big show barns are the same way. These kids never leave the ring. They almost never go on trail rides, they never ride bareback. They never go out and chase cows in the hills. They don't know how to lunge their horses, they don't have much idea about stable management- that is what the trainer is for. But hey, these kids are capable of getting on horse after horse, riding well over fences, then handing them to the grooms after they are done, just like you can do. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Batteries Included
Feb. 23, 2004, 01:25 PM
okay...
you all read quite clearly "rant" in the title and yet werent ready for one?

wanderlust
Feb. 23, 2004, 01:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Batteries Included:
okay...
you all read quite clearly "rant" in the title and yet werent ready for one?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Usually when people have a "rant" it is about something logical they should truly be upset about. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

~formerly Master Tally~

rileyt
Feb. 23, 2004, 01:27 PM
Again. It's fine to disagree. It's fine to even "rant" a little about how MUCH and how VEHEMENTLY you disagree.

It's not OK to be disrespectful. End of story.

tle
Feb. 23, 2004, 01:31 PM
Oh for heaven's sake. I should leave this alone, but well... i don't feel like it. BI, have you understood ANYTHING anyone has said?? Your latest post certainly doesn't seem to indicate as much. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Batteries Included:
at no point at all was i saying that Mr E is a bad person or bashing him or anything he stands for.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I supposed calling someone "That Denny person" isn't bashing in your world? Bashing may be harsh, but rude, disrespectful and insulting isn't beyond the scope of the post.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>it was a simple (yes it started simple until all you people came and made it worse http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif) rant about an article.
It should matter who wrote it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

if you don't want a response, don't post it! THAT, m'dear, is the "simple" rule of the internet.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I bet all of you (feel free to take me up on this one)that if the article was left without an author you wouldnt be here to defend it, certenaly not all of you anyway.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, you're absolutely right. We wouldn't be defending the same article if it was written anonymously because we wouldnt' know that the author was speaking for DECADES of experience, MANY olympic performances, YEARS UPON YEARS of equestrian experience, etc. It is *knowing* this information about the author that leads to many of us defending his POV from someone without that experience.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I do realize that there are people like those described but there isnt enough attention put to those who arnt like the article says.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps that's because the article only focused on one aspect. Some things are just too broad to be able to include EVERY little nuance or uniqueness and one has to, for the sake of space if not comprehension, boil it down to what the AUTHOR feels is the most important point he or she wishes to make. Taking somethign personal that isn't targetted at you is a bit insane (not that I haven't been guilty of it a time or 2, but at least I admit it).

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>and at what point in time did this become a place where i cant say what i feel about a 'famous' person yet you all can say what ever you darn please about me?...show me respect!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

first, please read my last post where I said it was fine for you to state your opinions as it is fine for others to do the same (just as it was fine for Mr. Emerson to state his in the article). However, it is NOT fine to be rude, insulting and disrespectful.

Also, sorry... but when did the world OWE you respect? You have to EARN it!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>My original point was that there are good kids who dont get the proper respect they deserve.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Again, you're taking the article, it's content, its intent, etc. WAAAY too personal. If you had written initially the paragraph that I snipped for length sake, I don't think anyone would disagree with you. In fact, I think I'd be one of the first to AGREE. However, when you demand respect by disrespecting someone of Mr. Emerson's qualifications, experience, knowledge, and position in the eventing community right out of the gate, you'll have a VERY hard time convincing anyone of anything other than you're a spoiled brat.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>and no offence, but you are all telling me that you _know_ and respect Mr.E
Well i dont know him or much about him and i cant respect someone who hasnt shown me they deserve it. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try just being polite and uninsulting then if that is your opinion of a person based on one article he wrote of which you know nothing about him or his experience that the article is based on (which IMHO is EXACTLY what you're complaining all of us are doing to you!!!! WOW!! Pot, this is kettle!)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>(and i am not going to look up anything about him, i realize he posts on these boards and will most likely read what i am saying, so he has every chance in the world to prove to ME that he deserves my respect. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

.... I have to let that one go before I get into territory that I'll feel bad about (not sorry, mind you, just bad). But I will say that I doubt he really cares to prove anything to you.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>i'll tell ya, some people! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

some people's children!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

************
If Dressage is a Symphony... Eventing is Rock & Roll!!!

"All's well that ends with cute E.R. doctors, I always say." -- Buffy

Daydream Believer
Feb. 23, 2004, 01:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Batteries Included:

and no offence, but you are all telling me that you _know_ and respect Mr.E
Well i dont know him or much about him and i cant respect someone who hasnt shown me they deserve it. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

and as a second note- you all say that i am imature (not openly but i can read between the lines here) and to get a grip. you all should get a grip...you have ALL expessed you opinions here WHY CANT I??? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif


-Caroline
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you understand basic manners and courtesy? Apparently not. It is all about how you say it BI, not what you say. I could care less about you personally or how many horses you ride. I think you sound like a very spoiled bad mannered child. Anyone can post their opinions here and say whatever they want to say more or less as long as they do it politely. When I was a girl your age, I had to address adults as Mr. and Mrs. such and such. Not "that Denny guy." If you can't see any wrong in writing or talking about someone that way, than you are truly one messed up kid. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

"No hour of life is lost that is spent in the saddle..." Winston Churchill

Sleepy
Feb. 23, 2004, 01:38 PM
If I had behaved this way to my elders and my parents had found out (and they WOULD have), they would have killed me.

Like tle said, some people's children! Beyond rude - or as we say in the South, common as dirt.

''Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.''
- Pablo Picasso

lilblackhorse
Feb. 23, 2004, 01:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Batteries Included:
(yes it started simple until all you people came and made it worse http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif)

Boy, do you have some balls for a 14 year old kid. Sorry, but you came on here and dug yourself a hole and can't get out of it. I don't care who you are, you were disrespectful to someone-I don't care if he's an Olympic rider or not.

(and i am not going to look up anything about him, i realize he posts on these boards and will most likely read what i am saying, so he has every chance in the world to prove to ME that he deserves my respect. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif)

"HE" has every chance to come prove to you that he deserves your respect? Oh, let me clean my screen off from that comment. You have got to be kidding...I hope he cleans your clock and perhaps invites you and that very very large chip on your very young shoulder to come to VT and ride with him.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Elippses Users Clique........"I hate stall rest" and Grammar Nazi Cliques

"What the fuh?" Robby Johnson

canterlope
Feb. 23, 2004, 02:02 PM
Okay, I can't stand it any more. I've just got to say it. I believe BI has morphed into a TROLL! And not just your ordinary, household variety troll. A young, immature troll who thinks it's okay to demand respect, but is unwilling to give it herself. Ugh!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They say cats have nine lives. They would settle for one good one. Adopt a cat (or dog) today.

nappingonthejob
Feb. 23, 2004, 02:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I wonder about her generation, and I worry we will be handing off our horses to a whole group of no-nothings and internet trainers who have no experience and couldn't recognize a lame horse until it broke down underneath them in the warmup arena after the 4th hour of schooling. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gee, thanks.

I'm sure this has already been said, but let's face it, every generation thinks the next one is going to hell in a handbasket. Some are just a little more polite about phrasing it, apparently.

Issues not insults, guys.

wanderlust
Feb. 23, 2004, 02:07 PM
Good call, canterlope. In fact, I'm starting to see similarities between BI and eqnjumperrider. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

~formerly Master Tally~

second chance
Feb. 23, 2004, 02:22 PM
I'm a firm believer of the following motto: "If you don't have anything good to say, don't say it."

I've had the opportunity to visit and ride with Mr. Emerson as well as other trainers at Tamarack. That facility is immaculate,spotless/whatever word you would like to use. His farm is well run, friendly and very,very,very professional.

I've groomed for Denny at King Oak HT when I was 13 years old, and got compliments from him.

Batteries Included I hope you get the opportunity to visit Tamarack and find out just who the real "Mr. Emerson" is.

I personally could never imagine bad-mouthing a professional who is highly respected and to some people is possibly considered an 'Eventing God'. I would be ashamed of myself about spewing such juvenile thoughts on a public message board.

To the world your just one person but to one person you could mean the world

barbaraG
Feb. 23, 2004, 02:37 PM
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Is this thread Really still here?? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

I'm gonna go over and post some Happy News....Please! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

BarbaraG
GWV/ loves Denny, but I've said that http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

KO
Feb. 23, 2004, 02:39 PM
This girl doesn't have opinions, she has tantrums!!

Pol
Feb. 23, 2004, 02:47 PM
Hey Batteries Included. How are you coming in the training of that horse of yours who won't go on the bit no matter what you do? Are you still listening to your fantastic trainer who tells you that you are using too much leg and not enough hand? Maybe that Denny guy could offer you some pointers. Gosh, he's been training horses for probably about 50 years now. Think maybe he knows a little bit about it? Why don't you give him a ring? He usually gets back to Vermont in early May after a winter of training, competing and teaching in North Carolina.

wanderlust
Feb. 23, 2004, 02:59 PM
Pol, you just put everything in persective. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

~formerly Master Tally~

Lisa Cook
Feb. 23, 2004, 03:06 PM
C'mon everyone...equinjumperwhatever has been morphed into BI. Have a beer & some pantyhose and let them troll away.

I need some help 'splaining this eventing flipping concept to my son's pony. See...I was exercising the pony this morning (giving him a tune-up ride, or so I thought)...when the ice came sliding off the indoor roof with a crash.

That little bugger went flying out from underneath me before I knew what had happened! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Now, as I'm sitting in the dirt, I realize that this pony - a walk/trot & short stirrup specialist - doesn't realize that in the eventing world *I* am supposed flip *him*! He has it all backwards!!!

How can my son take this pony in a walk/trot and cross-rail combined test later this year if this pony has the eventing flipping concept all wrong??

This is a serious crisis!! What should I do??

melting_mochi
Feb. 23, 2004, 03:08 PM
I agre you are making good points but I am standing up and trying to be mature for both sides and all everyone is doing is bashing me and BI (who don't even know each other). I got sick of being put down, so I said we should stop putting each other down.
I think BI is wonderful because she can speak her mind and isn't afraid to. That should be encouraged.
I know I will probably get banned for this message, but it is well worth it, as I don't like being bashed on a message board and will not post here again if this continues.

"If the place I wanted to arrive at could only be reached by a ladder, I would give up trying to arrive at it. For the place i have to reach is where i must already be."
*Akhal-Teke clique*
*Mighty Thoroughbred clique*
*Bullsnap-haters clique*
*Double dilute clique*
*Eventing clique*

[This message was edited by Erin on Feb. 23, 2004 at 05:59 PM.]

Lisa Cook
Feb. 23, 2004, 03:12 PM
Do you think if I put the pony up on the roof of the indoor and slide him off with the next round of ice slides...will that be a proper way of teaching him to flip? This flipping the rider business must be nipped in the bud!

melting_mochi
Feb. 23, 2004, 03:12 PM
By the way, I am kind of sorry about my last horrible rant. It wasn't really about me, but it was about how I felt when I was BI's age (not really that long ago, I admit). I felt like anything I said would be taken in the wrong way.
Now, she was not very respectful to Denny, I agree. But it is not respectful to put her down for anything, as it will show her that it was adults do. Maybe that it why she is so disrespectful?

"If the place I wanted to arrive at could only be reached by a ladder, I would give up trying to arrive at it. For the place i have to reach is where i must already be."
*Akhal-Teke clique*
*Mighty Thoroughbred clique*
*Bullsnap-haters clique*
*Double dilute clique*
*Eventing clique*

Lisa Cook
Feb. 23, 2004, 03:16 PM
I prefer Coors Light when flipping. Is there a certain brand of beer that facilitates the flipping education of horses/ponies? Maybe my beer brand is all wrong....

Arcadien
Feb. 23, 2004, 03:16 PM
&gt;&gt;Do you think if I put the pony up on the roof of the indoor and slide him off with the next round of ice slides...will that be a proper way of teaching him to flip? This flipping the rider business must be nipped in the bud!&lt;&lt;

Hmmm... only if you tie his reins to the gutter, so he will be appropriately jerked in the mouth upon flippage, will the lesson go home, methinks!!

Gonna go pop a beer and return, this thread is finally getting interesting!!!

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Arcadien

deltawave
Feb. 23, 2004, 03:18 PM
Yup, we're all free to speak our minds...but with that "freedom" comes the responsibility of owning up to one's stance and not crying foul when others disagree with it.

The way I read the article, Denny Emerson had sympathy for those young people who couldn't spend unlimited time for horses. He said they "aren't in a position to do this (spend enormous amounts of time at the barn) even if they wanted to". Why would this offend anyone? I feel sorry for the kids who want very badly to ride and can't due to time or financial constraints. I'm one of the "commuter" horse people, and I regret it but have no alternative.

Why the original poster took offense at this is beyond me, but I do hope the thread is closed because there's obviously no middle ground here. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

---------------------------------------------
"If you think your hairstyle is more important than your brain, you're probably right." Wear a helmet!
Pictures! (http://www.deltawave.homestead.com/photos2.html)
Helmet Nazi, Bah Humbug, Mares Rule, Breed Your Own and Michigan cliques!

Lisa Cook
Feb. 23, 2004, 03:18 PM
What bit do you think I should use when tying the reins to the gutter? Twisted double wire? MikMar? Details, people, details!!

canterlope
Feb. 23, 2004, 03:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Now, she was not very respectful to Denny, I agree. But it is not respectful to put her down for anything, as it will show her that it was adults do. Maybe that it why she is so disrespectful? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Wow! Now it is all our fault that BI is disrespectful?!? Interesting theory. Flawed, but interesting nonetheless.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They say cats have nine lives. They would settle for one good one. Adopt a cat (or dog) today.

ALF
Feb. 23, 2004, 03:38 PM
Whoever told me to get a grip - hahaha

melting_mochi
Feb. 23, 2004, 03:38 PM
I may have been unclear in my anger. What I meant to imply was that if you (not necessary anyone specifically; many of you were perfectly respectful) are disrespectful right back to her then that will not reinforce your argument that she must respect others. Some people just seem rather hypocritical, as they bash BI and then tell her to be respectful to adults. I will cite examples if you like, but I'd rather not name names.

Personally, I was a bit of a "wild child", but only because I tended to give people only the respect they deserve (or, what they give me). Nowadays, if someone is disrespectful to me, I think I will usually try to be respectful, just to stay respectable and be nice. However, I do not feel like respecting an adult who puts me down.

Do you see what I mean? Again, I'm sorry if I'm unclear - I just finished 3 midterms and am preparing for a 3-day, so I'm pretty exhausted and stressed out. Not an excuse, just an explanation http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"If the place I wanted to arrive at could only be reached by a ladder, I would give up trying to arrive at it. For the place i have to reach is where i must already be."
*Akhal-Teke clique*
*Mighty Thoroughbred clique*
*Bullsnap-haters clique*
*Double dilute clique*
*Eventing clique*

JAGold
Feb. 23, 2004, 03:51 PM
This is just silly. BI, the article wasn't about you. Are you angry at CNN for saying on TV that "American kids are getting fatter these days" or that "High school students are scoring poorly on standardized tests"? I hope not -- because those stories, like Mr. Emerson's articles, are about trends, not individuals. Frankly, if you can't see the difference, maybe you should spend more time in the library and less at the barn.

As for not respecting Mr. Emerson until he's shown you he deserves it -- well, that's what we've been trying to tell you. For the last half century or so, he has been showing people that he deserves their respect, admiration, and support. You just haven't paid enough attention to the history of the sport to know what he's accomplished and given back. Here are the Cliff Notes:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>He's ridden in the Olympics and the World Championships
<LI>He's served virtually every major organization that governs eventing in this country, including the USET as a VP, AHSA/USAE as a member of the Executive Committee, and the USCTA/USEA as President.
<LI>He's a teacher -- yep, school as well as riding.
[/list]
He's also regarded highly enough that the COTH named him one of the most influential horsemen, and pays him to write a column. He doesn't have anything to prove to anyone -- especially to a teenager who doesn't know the history of her own sport.

Good kids don't go about shouting about how they need respect. They do what they love because they love it, not because other people tell them how wonderful they are. They take the time to learn from their elders, and to give back to the community around them.

You are certainly entitled to your opinions. As I am entitled to mine. [Edited since Erin says it's not Open Season http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Sufice to say I don't agree with the OP's attitude.] You had the opportunity to say "Ok, I guess I misunderstood the article" and walk away, but you dug yourself in deeper and insulted not only one of our sport's greatest contributers, but COTH posters in general. Congratulations. --Jess

[This message was edited by JAGold on Feb. 23, 2004 at 08:59 PM.]

Erin
Feb. 23, 2004, 04:01 PM
melting mochi, watch your language.

The rest of you... cool your jets a bit, eh? Just because someone expresses an opinion different than yours is no reason to declare it open season on them. You're welcome to disagree, but do so respectfully. It is possible to be brutally honest and respectful at the same time.

Lisa Cook
Feb. 23, 2004, 04:09 PM
&lt;&lt;sigh&gt;&gt; here I am, 2 Coors Lights later, and the darn pony STILL thinks *he* is supposed to flip *me*. Darn hunter/jumper people teach these ponies all wrong..mumble mumble &lt;&lt;pops top off beer #3&gt;&gt;

frugalannie
Feb. 23, 2004, 05:21 PM
Lisa Cook, I think we're not responding because we need more details on your dismount. Did you do a Gainer? Land on your feet? Leave "dust angels" on the ring surface? With that information, we can all pitch in and help you select the right equipment, outfit and maybe even music to optimize your performance.

Oh, and this is one competition that is definitely segregated by age, because there is the division competing for beer, and the division competing for glory. The former is also divided into those competing after beer as well.

I'll be working on my entry in about two weeks. Is anyone else in? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Arcadien
Feb. 23, 2004, 05:22 PM
&lt;&lt;sigh&gt;&gt; here I am, 2 Coors Lights later, and the darn pony STILL thinks *he* is supposed to flip *me*. Darn hunter/jumper people teach these ponies all wrong..mumble mumble &lt;&lt;pops top off beer #3&gt;&gt;

Well that's your answer!!! You can't possibly teach pony flipping until at least 4 beers. Horse flipping requires at least 5. Well, this is Coors Lite anyway, those dark European beers might take less...

Anyway, I don't think it matters what bit you use during flip-training but you should take care to tie those reins to the gutter with pantyhose. That will give just enough of a jerk, but give way so he can complete the flip to the ground, instead of crashing into the barn wall. Geez, I wish I could send you pictures, this is hard to explain in words...

Got to go get another beer, I'm only on 2...

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif Arcadien

starman
Feb. 23, 2004, 05:26 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by melting_mochi:
I think BI is wonderful because she can speak her mind and isn't afraid to. That should be encouraged.
/QUOTE]

There is a BIG differnece between "speaking her mind" and be just plain rude and disrespectful. Who the hell are you,BI, to be demanding respect, when you haven't even begun to earn it. When I was 14 (wich was not long ago) my ass would have been SOOOO blistered if I wouldv'e talked/writen about anybody like you have. Like I said before people teach eachother how they want to be treated.

"For things that we must learn to do before we can do them we learn by DOING THEM!" -Denny Emerson

Lisa Cook
Feb. 23, 2004, 05:35 PM
Oh...burp...you need more details?

Umm...somersault with a half twist over the pony's right shoulder, landing squarely on my butt, thereby leaving "moon angels" imbedded on the arena footing.

Pony was ridden in a big fat eggbutt bit at the time of incident. No martingales or draw reins or anything like that.

Not enough metal and/or leather? Is that my problem??

pwynnnorman
Feb. 23, 2004, 05:35 PM
Hey, folks. I haven't read this entire thread, so I'm sorry if I'm repeating something already written, but...

What really depresses me is that the young person who started the thread doesn't know one of the great riders AND industry leaders of recent times.

Not only is it sad the way young people don't get the experiences that "grow" them into horsemen and women, but also its sad that they don't indulge in the whole sport anymore. Like the poster here, it seems it has to be all about THEM. The only people they follow or note are those who benefit "them" in some direct or indirect way.

Where did all the heros go? They're still here, but the next generation only worships itself.

Sportponies Unlimited
Specializing in fancy, athletic, 3/4-TB ponies.
http://www.sportponiesunlimited.com
http://www.sportponiesunlimited.com/Sportponies_Unlimited_stallions.html

asterix
Feb. 23, 2004, 05:41 PM
Lisa, I think you have been neglecting basic conditioning. This, as we all know, is the foundation of preparing for the season. If the pony had been doing trot sets it would now be ready to be flipped. As it is, it lacks the proper musclature and cardio fitness to be flipped, and it did the only thing it could, gave a feeble attempt, and ended up flipping YOU!
Get thee to the fields and begin timing!

Lisa Cook
Feb. 23, 2004, 05:49 PM
This pony has been conditioned just fine! Why, he's ridden at the walk & trot maybe 3X a week by my 7 year old !! And today? After the flipping? My son went and rode the pony *down the driveway and back*. This pony is in tip-top condition. Could do Rolex tomorrow. Must be another reason as to why he flipped me. sheesh.

RAyers
Feb. 23, 2004, 06:20 PM
I posted this on the Off Course thread but I want to add this here and also address Melting Moochi.

Hey, BI, you talk about earning respect from your elders. I tell you what, when you can come out and compete on equal footing with myself, GotSpots, tle, Nevertime, and a bunch of other folks that have run Intermediate, CCIs and higher (I see you never have competed above beginner novice), I will gladly listen to your experience and expertise.

I am a univeristy professor and I have numerous students between 18 and 40 years old. I know that you, like my students, have a lot of knowledge that I can learn from, but if one of my students EVER treated me the way you have treated this discussion (with insults and whining) I would cease to give them any special consideration and, more likely I would be harder on them in their research. Why? Because I was like you one time and after having my lunch feed to me SO many times by experts in both the university and eventing worlds I got sick and tired of vomiting my foot back up in front of my peers and learned how to listen and read without instant judgment.

Melting Moochi, yes you should be proud to speak your mind. BI should be proud to speak her mind, but do NOT idolize or defend her. She has done little to further her case by pointing out specific qualifications she has to render the judgements she has, other than "she is a hard working kid." Admirable but not sufficient. When you can present a logical discourse as to why the article is incorrect, e.g. alternatives to Denny's arguements, then we all may be more inclined to listen.

Just saying I ride 8 horses and tell the owners what to do, or muck stalls, or a myriad of other things is not enough. For example, I was a vet tech at one of the top equine hospitals in the US back when BI was born. I cleaned stalls, I treated horses, I even did minor surgeries, does that make me a vet? Does that even make me qualified to do veterinary work? An emphatic NO! Only by becoming one of the world's experts in porous biomaterials and bone regeneration (4 years of published graduate research and 4 years of university level professoral research) am I now qualified to help vets develop new treatments to cure and treat equine arthritis. I'd be happy to give you any proof you require.

It's called "Paying your Dues" and "EARNING Respect."

Reed

[This message was edited by RAyers on Feb. 23, 2004 at 08:28 PM.]

[This message was edited by RAyers on Feb. 23, 2004 at 08:29 PM.]

lilblackhorse
Feb. 23, 2004, 06:32 PM
~*un-rated pony clubber and PROUD!
~*O'Connor obsesser extraordinaire!...lol (you have to know me to really get it)

I see these are no longer on the infamous tagline....I'm betting the O'Connors are breathing a sigh of relief...and who needs Pony Club when we know so much already? It's not like just going BN has hampered her ability to take on Olympic level riders by name http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif


"What the fuh?" Robby Johnson

Batteries Included
Feb. 23, 2004, 06:35 PM
as the OP i am leaving.
i have read/herd enough.
i get everyones point, and i understand who "this denny guy" is.
i have apoligized to everyone and send a PT to Mr E himself apoligizing.
i am no longer going to argue my point any longer seeing how it has gotten me no where.
talk about this amungst yourselvs, go off topic all you want, but i am gone from this topic. the article desterbed me ebd of story.
FAIRWELL

-Caroline
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
~*I am just your ordinary Average every day sane psycho Supergoddess -Liz Phair
~*pony ride gone lesson kid gone barn bum gone hunter gone jumper gone eventer gone horse owner gone pony clubber gone crazy!

lilblackhorse
Feb. 23, 2004, 06:55 PM
hmmm-I hope she spends more time in school learning how to spell http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif


"What the fuh?" Robby Johnson

Threedaychick
Feb. 23, 2004, 07:03 PM
I thought Mr. Emerson's article was sad but so true. My generation just doesn't have the same opportunities for experiences. The only way I was able to ride was with proper riding lessons which I quite enjoyed and am grateful for. That is they way almost everyone my age started, most of us were not given a shaggy, fat, poorly trained pony from the neighbors to go out in the fields and do dangerous/stupid/scary things on bareback with no/and or poor head protection. If I'm not mistaken most biographies on top riders start out that way. (I'm reading the autobiography of Mark Todd right now.. I can't believe some of the things he did as a kid. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif) Insurance, more over protective parents, and dissapearing land make this kind of early training in riding over terrian and balance impossible. The only experience most of us get now is the field at the barn and schooling on sanctioned cross country courses. I agree with one of the earlier posters, learning to feed, wrap, hay, etc, etc are just being a good horse owner. It is your experiences that make you a good horse person.
As for the horse flipping, maybe you should get some draw reins and a cattle prod, this should teach the standing flip which is much more impressive. &lt;&lt;pops open ROOT beer http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif&gt;&gt;


(edited for terrible grammer)
"It was a relief to me to know that loud talk, red faces, and public drunkenness are still a part of the eventing scence." -Jim Wofford

ALF
Feb. 23, 2004, 07:04 PM
wow eventers are fun to laugh at!

Kblue
Feb. 23, 2004, 07:05 PM
I know we've already gotten to the beer and stuff, I'll have a coke, but can I ask a question?

I think people complaining about "this generation" need to examine who is raising "this generation" kids are seeing all over the news people not taking responsibility for their actions (aka suing for hot coffee and being fat after eating greasy food) and their parents are willing to pay much money to make them the next "superstar" in their chosen activity. I don't think this generation of kids was born rotten and spoiled, but someone had to give us the shove in that direction.

I think it's a shame kids today don't have opportunities like the older generation did, so we need to come up with different ways to educate "this generation." I wish I had the opportunities that apparently all of the "older generation" did. I wish I could have grown up on a farm with a pony to ride and mistakes to be made. Instead, I started taking lessons when I was 7 and hung around the barn as often as I could, cleaning stalls, grooming, and picking my instructor's brain. When I got my own horse I began riding about 4 times a week, as often as my parents would take me up there. I'm grateful daily for everything my parents do, including paying the many bills, but I know a some of my friends with horses aren't that grateful. I can see where the adults are coming from.

At risk of mirroring the original rant, I was kind of offended that most were so quick to blame everything on the kids, we had to learn our habits, and characteristics from someplace and someone, usually the adults we look up to!

spider bite
Feb. 23, 2004, 07:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Electric Tape:
wow eventers are fun to laugh at!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
So are psychos who get banned from forums and then come back when they get a new ISP.

ALF
Feb. 23, 2004, 07:21 PM
like you with 3 posts?

melting_mochi
Feb. 23, 2004, 07:32 PM
I agree - American adults are not always much to admire (and neither are their kids). I am lucky enough to live near San Francisco. The Bay Area generally has many vegans, liberals, hippie types, and etc. I say that I am lucky because this is what I am like now and I'm happy to be near others with similar views (and also those who oppose these views and are fun to debate and converse with). Perhaps if I'd grown up somewhere else I'd be completely different, but perhaps not. This helps the argument that we learn from our surroundings, as well as from our parents.
There is also a fair amount of open land/preserves to ride in. As I said, I am lucky, as there is less and less land these days and many young riders probably don't even see riding as an option for them.

"If the place I wanted to arrive at could only be reached by a ladder, I would give up trying to arrive at it. For the place i have to reach is where i must already be."
*Akhal-Teke clique*
*Mighty Thoroughbred clique*
*Bullsnap-haters clique*
*Double dilute clique*
*Eventing clique*

Harbour's Mom
Feb. 23, 2004, 08:03 PM
I'm a huge Denny Emerson fan and agree with what he wrote.
BI should consider herself lucky that she is able to ride so many horses and take care of them. Not many young girls have that option. I miss being able to spend all weekend at the barn. Now instead of cleaning stalls I serve food at a retirement home to pay for my beloved first horse to live out a wonderful retirement. Its all worth it to me, to hear him nicker when I go to visit. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I think Mr. Emerson was trying to stress that for too many young riders more joy can be found at a show than seeing their horses face hanging out a stall door when they come to the barn everyday.

"You're never too good to grab mane."

deltawave
Feb. 23, 2004, 08:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by melting_mochi:
I'm sorry if I'm unclear - I just finished 3 midterms and am preparing for a 3-day <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Which 3 day would that be? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Sorry, couldn't resist...gotta go get my entry in for my "two day" in April... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

---------------------------------------------
"If you think your hairstyle is more important than your brain, you're probably right." Wear a helmet!
Pictures! (http://www.deltawave.homestead.com/photos2.html)
Helmet Nazi, Bah Humbug, Mares Rule, Breed Your Own and Michigan cliques!

wanderlust
Feb. 23, 2004, 08:42 PM
kblue, I think you have a very valid point. I remember when I was a teenager, there was an anti-drug television ad that ran and placed the blame for the kid smoking pot directly on the parent. The father asked the kid where he learned to smoke weed, and the kid retorted "I learned it by watching you, dad." I think that parents can do children a great disservice, as they *do* learn from adults.

&lt;Edited to remove the middle paragraph, as I'm quite sure it would fall on deaf ears.&gt;

Lisa, you need to get the pony out ON the ice. Then you can start some flipping. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

And ditto deltawave's question... Mochi sure moved up fast from doing Novice with Shirley this summer. Now you are prepping for a three day? You guys are running prelim now?

[This message was edited by wanderlust on Feb. 23, 2004 at 11:14 PM.]

melting_mochi
Feb. 23, 2004, 08:44 PM
I'm going to the Ram Tap Horse Trials in Fresno, CA. It will be a long drive from Woodside.

Good luck at your 3-day http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"If the place I wanted to arrive at could only be reached by a ladder, I would give up trying to arrive at it. For the place i have to reach is where i must already be."
*Akhal-Teke clique*
*Mighty Thoroughbred clique*
*Bullsnap-haters clique*
*Double dilute clique*
*Eventing clique*

Perfect Pony
Feb. 23, 2004, 08:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Threedaychick:
most of us were not given a shaggy, fat, poorly trained pony from the neighbors to go out in the fields and do dangerous/stupid/scary things on bareback with no/and or poor head protection. If I'm not mistaken most biographies on top riders start out that way. (I'm reading the autobiography of Mark Todd right now.. I can't believe some of the things he did as a kid. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif) Insurance, more over protective parents, and dissapearing land make this kind of early training in riding over terrian and balance impossible. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is that really how the greats started? I thought I was the only one that started riding that way?

I agree with you on the point though. I look back on when I was young, I was so horse crazy. My mom gave me my first pony when I was 9 years old. A 14 hand 2 year old Galacino she got for free. The neighbor down the street from my aunts lent us another shaggy bay with star shetland (named star) for my friend to ride, nothing but and old bridle and bareback pads. My pony tried to kill me every chance he got, we would gallop and jump anything in our path on these crazy ponies, with jeans, tennis shoes and those old hard hats on with no chin strap that afforded no protection whatsoever! We used to race too! Always ending up sidways being galloped away with. Those were the days! What the hell happened to me anyways (as I get on my lovely 3 yo with butterflies)?

But seriously, this thread has gotten way too intense. Times have changed. No one ever EVER worried about me growing up the way we do today about kids. There was no fear that one of us would get hurt and sue the pants off anyone.

WE are the ones that created the current generation. Bitching about our creation isn't going to solve anything. I have no idea what the answer is (or what was the question is really)...

"Dan the Man" (http://community.webshots.com/user/kalitude)

JenEM
Feb. 23, 2004, 11:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wanderlust:
kblue, I think you have a very valid point. I remember when I was a teenager, there was an anti-drug television ad that ran and placed the blame for the kid smoking pot directly on the parent. The father asked the kid where he learned to smoke weed, and the kid retorted "I learned it by watching you, dad." I think that parents can do children a great disservice, as they *do* learn from adults. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This reminds me of something from Willy Wonka (it was on one of the movie channels this weekend). The Ompa-Lompas do a little sone about the bad behavior of one of the bratty children, and talk about who's to blame. Who? The Mother and the Father.

I was happy (a hunter rider who does know who Denny Emerson is) that my trainer copied the article and gave it to all the ids in the barn. We've got a couple little girls with "stage moms" who do all their work for them, from grooming to putting on wraps. They'll occasionally ask me to "keep an eye" on Precious when they can't stay and help. The kids are always surprised when I tell them I won't put their polos on, but I'll watch them and make sure they do it right http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif I'm not that much older than they are, but it boggles my mind some of the simple things, like giving paste wormer, that they don't know how to do.

frugalannie
Feb. 24, 2004, 06:26 AM
Jen Em, I'd say your disguise is working very well, indeed.

Lisa Cook, I agree that you have fitness well in hand. However, your equipment needs work. Have you considered using a three-ring Pessoa, bit and bridoon or Mikmar? Any of these might give you the proper "engagement" for the true, classical flip.

Oh, wait... Where was my brain? You're riding a PONY! Center of gravity is too low for flipping. Consider an 18 hand IDX or part giraffe if you are a novice flipper.

I think some very clever computer person needs to come up with a horse flipping game along the lines of the penguin bashing game.

As you may have noticed, I have firmly resolved to put the actual topic of this thread behind me. Everyone has made good points. We all know where we stand. If you really need to say more, please do, but don't beat a dead horse (at least not more than three times, and not ahead of the shoulder). http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

"Guinness: it's not just for breakfast anymore." (A sign I saw on the side of a building during my first trip to Ireland many years ago.)

Gry2Yng
Feb. 24, 2004, 07:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Electric Tape:
Whoever told me to get a grip - hahaha<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did. I stand by the comment, and I understand your innuendo.

Janet
Feb. 24, 2004, 07:29 AM
Pony flipping.

Your mistake was trying it in the indoor.

Try it OUTSIDE, when the ground is soft on top but still frozen underneath, riding square corners on a slight slope, with a green horse that is DETERMINED to run through the outside shoulder.

Just a very gentle slide, but "hip and shoulder on the same side in contact with the ground", so I think it counts. With more speed it could be quite dramatic.

Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain

oskaar
Feb. 24, 2004, 10:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by melting_mochi:
I'm going to the Ram Tap Horse Trials in Fresno, CA. It will be a long drive from Woodside.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe you're having trouble distinguishing a three-day event (a multi-phase event at the national or international level where the level is designated by number of stars) with a horse trial that runs over htree days. If I remeber correctly, Fresno to Woodside is only about a 2 hour drive.

Without thinking before you speak, you are only emphasizing the points you are trying so vehemntly to dispute. A tad more research behind your arguments could make you seem more credible, and people might actually respect your opinion instead of bashing you openly.

lilblackhorse
Feb. 24, 2004, 10:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by oskaar:

I believe you're having trouble distinguishing a three-day event (a multi-phase event at the national or international level where the level is designated by number of stars) with a horse trial that runs over htree days. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


thank you for that---It drives me nuts when people doing BN or whatever tell folks they are going to ride in a three day. Even my old instructor would say that, perhaps to impress people, I don't know, but it just makes one sound silly imo. A HT which runs over three days is vasty different from a true 3 day cci or cic. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


"What the fuh?" Robby Johnson

deltawave
Feb. 24, 2004, 11:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If you really need to say more, please do, but don't beat a dead horse (at least not more than three times, and not ahead of the shoulder). http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

---------------------------------------------
"If you think your hairstyle is more important than your brain, you're probably right." Wear a helmet!
Pictures! (http://www.deltawave.homestead.com/photos2.html)
Helmet Nazi, Bah Humbug, Mares Rule, Breed Your Own and Michigan cliques!

Lisa Cook
Feb. 24, 2004, 12:46 PM
Janet - I'd love to work on the flipping training outside, but we have far too much snow right now. We don't have any soft ground with frozen underneath...just one big frozen snow tundra at this point.

I think I'll go for a double bridle with a Mik Mar & a wire bradoon. Toss in some draw reins while I'm at it. But how do I get the pony to the roof of the indoor to perform the original slide & flip off the roof training?

He's not a very big pony...someone practiced in the art of dwarf-tossing might be able fling him right on up there.

frugalannie
Feb. 24, 2004, 03:52 PM
Dwarf tossing! Now there's a sport http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif. Lisa, your comment makes me think that we should borrow from another thread and consider finging your pony. All I know about it is that it's illegal, you can do it in Amsterdam, and apparently it can be done with a picture of a horse (unlike numping). Perhaps when the pony is well-broken to finging, he will be better at flipping.

In the absence of the ideal conditions Janet has described ( you are OK, aren't you Janet?), you may be able to optimize the snow if you drag out a hose and water it well. Like most things we do with horses, this will be a waste of money, which will get you extra points. When you get enough points, you get...written up in COTH, of course!

Failing that, I suggest you ask, no - beg, Robby Johnson to organize a flipping (or finging) clinic at Rolex so you can attend and learn from the best. Robby might even help with the appropriate turnout. And I think Janet has the rules available on-line, so you'll know what you should and definitely should do. As I understand it, there are no shouldn'ts in flipping and finging, but I'm just a novice.

Any resemblance between me and my evil twin, Skippy, who wrote this post is purely coincidental. (And Frugal hopes no one actually takes offense at anything she says after a glass of wine at lunch!)

Janet
Feb. 24, 2004, 03:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> ( you are OK, aren't you Janet?)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Oh yes, we are both fine. And, surprise surprise, he decided it made more sense to go in the direction he was pointed instead of running through the shoulder.

Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain

BethG
Feb. 24, 2004, 04:11 PM
So, out of curiosity to all of you horse-flipping experts: What's a California 'gal to do when she doesn't have a) an indoor to flip her pony off of and b) no SNOW! Yipes...

Should she go for flipping in uber deep muck or what?

And, how many Coors would that require? (I'm guessing more since the indoor/snow stuff is so danged advanged and the uber deep muck is like beginner novice...) http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

This is a serious dilemma...putting my pantyhose on my head right now (my thinking cap) so I can ponder the issue with the appropriate amount of dignity...

wanderlust
Feb. 24, 2004, 05:55 PM
BethG, you need to make creative use of all the cows in the surrounding pastures. Trust me, cows will give falling ice a run for its money any day. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

~formerly Master Tally~

LisaB
Feb. 25, 2004, 05:29 AM
Beth, from experience with the CA climate(do they have one?) I would say a good horse flip right into that deep sand would be in order. That way, a week later, you still find grains of gritty sand in your underwear.

asterix
Feb. 25, 2004, 06:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lilblackhorse:
It drives me nuts when people doing BN or whatever tell folks they are going to ride in a three day. Even my old instructor would say that, perhaps to impress people, I don't know, but it just makes one sound silly imo.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

hah! It works both ways -- the first season I was eventing, I was leaving the barn to go walk my course on a Friday afternoon, and was stopped by the BO and introduced to her friend, an older woman who had apparently evented "in the old days" (there was history here involving a number of DQs, including the BO, who used to event, but found Training to be too hard and now never rode outside the indoor...). This woman said "So, you are doing a three day this weekend?" When I replied, "oh, no, I've just started eventing; I'm going beginner novice," she got a funny look on her face and said "Well, everyone has to start somewhere..."

I was pretty crushed until I got out into the parking lot...and then I thought...if she's such an eventing queen, why on EARTH would she think I was doing a three day if I was mooning around the barn on a Friday afternoon???

RAyers
Feb. 25, 2004, 08:02 AM
Beth G, COORS? COORS? What kind of glutton for punishment are you? Seeing as my office is less than 3 blocks from the brewery I know what that "Rocky Mountain Spring Water" is. We used to tube in it when we were kids and since we didn't have time to get out of the water to go to the bathroom... No wonder you are having problems flipping! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Reed

melting_mochi
Feb. 25, 2004, 09:08 AM
I really don't think my post had anything to do with me having a vast knowledge of horsemanship or eventing terminology. So why go down to the level of "openly bashing" me? I think that's pretty damn pathetic, especially because I was trying to be fairly diplomatic after my last post and help everyone get along.

And why do you care how far Woodside and Fresno are? They are about 3-3 1/2 hours from each traveling at 55 mph with a 6-horse trailer behind you.

and (hehe) I wasn't trying to "impress" anyone, if that's what you're thinking :-D I am just too lowly to know the correct terminology. I generally don't feel I need to impress people that go onto message boards to put down 17 year old girls because simply to show that they know everything. (anyone want to pick on my run-on sentence?)

"If the place I wanted to arrive at could only be reached by a ladder, I would give up trying to arrive at it. For the place i have to reach is where i must already be."
*Akhal-Teke clique*
*Mighty Thoroughbred clique*
*Bullsnap-haters clique*
*Double dilute clique*
*Eventing clique*

tle
Feb. 25, 2004, 09:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I generally don't feel I need to impress people that go onto message boards to put down 17 year old girls because simply to show that they know everything. (anyone want to pick on my run-on sentence?)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, but if you want to start having your thoughts and ideas accepted, they need to be presented in the appropriate, well-thought-out, well-educated and well-presented manner. If you aren't sure of the terminology, fine. But the need to learn it AND take corrections from people who do know it gracefully is something to work on.

************
If Dressage is a Symphony... Eventing is Rock & Roll!!!

"All's well that ends with cute E.R. doctors, I always say." -- Buffy

LisaB
Feb. 25, 2004, 10:06 AM
Hey Mochi, did anyone ever use this expression? Just keep digging further into that hole? I think that's what you're doing. You have yet to learn the art of the sh- sandwich. (Took me until I was 30). You say a good thing, then a bad thing(constructively, maturely), then end with a good thing. See? s- sandwich.
And oh yeah, I think during the Olympics when the tv was doing a cover piece on David O. He said that his ma and his bro and he went on a cross country(I mean across THE country) trip on horseback. That taught his some invaluable lessons. I think he was saying the same things as Denny. And everyone else for that matter. And Denny also says the same thing about us adults. We don't spend enough time in the saddle. We pretty much suck it up and know it. Makes us work harder.
You guys (collectively) are also missing another point. We, today, don't have as much open space as we used to. Long gone are the all-day adventure rides(me, bareback, on a barely broke Shetland). Now we stick the arenas and groomed, pre-determined trail rides that go for an hour, maybe.
Yes, some kids bust thier asses. No doubt. But it's different, less wild and wooly. Less feel, more taught.
And oh, some kids do know there are differing opinions in the world. BI and Mochi just learned it.
See? I just did a s- sandwich!

BethG
Feb. 25, 2004, 10:07 AM
Oh bless my amateur soul! Okay, so no coors, cows work great as does deep sand...

We almost did a flip into the mud last night as pony was quite "up" as a *big* storm was blowing in...very exciting. Too bad the cows weren't nearby...hmm I guess I'm just a flipper in training (or a flipper wannabe?).

LisaB--we do have a climate, it is just *subtle*--although today we are having a storm of the decade and it is almost pitch black outside at 9am...high winds, heavy rains very exciting!--Heck, maybe I should leave work and go practicie my horse flipping, it appears to be an excellent day...

But what to drink at 9am? Mimosas just seem so, so civilized! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

wanderlust
Feb. 25, 2004, 10:25 AM
Hee hee, Beth G, "up" was definitely the operative word for last night. I thought at one point that I was going to land square on my butt in the one huge puddle that currently encompasses our entire arena. As we were leaping and spinning, I was thinking "Oh, its really soft, it won't hurt too much." http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

The cows work wonderfully until your horse figures out that cows move *away* when you move towards them. Unless they are like my mare, who still hasn't quite grasped that concept... she is convinced that cows can kill you simply by looking at you. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

~formerly Master Tally~

BethG
Feb. 25, 2004, 10:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The cows work wonderfully until your horse figures out that cows move *away* when you move towards them. Unless they are like my mare, who still hasn't quite grasped that concept... she is convinced that cows can kill you simply by looking at you. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

~_formerly Master Tally_~<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know what you mean--my guy hasn't figured out the cow thing (and considering he's a paint, shouldn't that knowledge be in his genes somewhere? lol). It's amazing how tall a horse can be when his eyes are bugging out and he's on his tippy toes.

No riding today, however; huh? Good thing we ended our lesson with a good gallop around the arena a time or two.

melting_mochi
Feb. 25, 2004, 11:05 AM
You have taught me nothing other than that there are some people that think they know everything. I hate "pre-groomed" trails and arenas. I am not a prissy little hunter princess http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif No offense - one of my best friends rides hunters! I just love her prissiness, hehe.
I've decided recently that I want to learn from people, but that I demand a certain level of respect. However, I believe that LisaB made a nice analogy, fairly respectfully. I didn't appreciate the snideness of the "hole" remark, though.
But, then again, I'm sure the know-it-alls don't appreciate this comment, eh?
Don't bother to respond, I'm tired of this message. I am going to refrain from any debates, as there is no good way to argue with you people. I simply want to learn. I can argue in philosophy class.

"All I know is that I know nothing."

"If the place I wanted to arrive at could only be reached by a ladder, I would give up trying to arrive at it. For the place i have to reach is where i must already be."
*Akhal-Teke clique*
*Mighty Thoroughbred clique*
*Bullsnap-haters clique*
*Double dilute clique*
*Eventing clique*

deltawave
Feb. 25, 2004, 11:19 AM
I hope you find that Utopian place where everyone treats you with respect whether you deserve it or not, teaches you something without ruffling your feathers, and avoids offending your delicate sensibilities with sarcasm or negativity. If you can't find that wonderful place, be careful when you get back to the real world that the dismount from your VERY high horse isn't too bumpy... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

I remember getting VERY fired up in Sophomore philosophy class, too...thought I could take on the world, I did, with my new-found wit and depth of thought. Then my sister pointed out to me the definition of "sophomore". http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Peace, mochi, nobody here is out to make enemies...we all engage in this unnatural form of communication understanding that it isn't like talking face-to-face. Don't take stuff too personally! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

---------------------------------------------
"If you think your hairstyle is more important than your brain, you're probably right." Wear a helmet!
Pictures! (http://www.deltawave.homestead.com/photos2.html)
Helmet Nazi, Bah Humbug, Mares Rule, Breed Your Own and Michigan cliques!

frugalannie
Feb. 25, 2004, 12:03 PM
BethG, Guinness in the morning! Prepares you for horse flipping with all the trace nutrients you could possibly want, and a few that aren't so trace.

I'm so sorry that Batteries Included, Electric Tape and Melting_Mochi have gotten so upset at a bunch of fellow eventers. Hey, if we weren't opinionated and didn't think we knew what the heck we were doing, we wouldn't be out there risking life and limb for the fun of it. It's been a long, hard winter and everyone is getting cranky in these parts...

With Deltawave's encouragement (you should never, ever encourage me DW) I may make the dead horse line my tag. But in the meantime, remember you only get to hit the dead horse three times. And I'm not the only one counting. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif