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Phaxxton
Dec. 12, 2003, 06:20 PM
The recent posts about barn fires has got me thinking. I am starting to realize that many people are uneducated about fire prevention and potential fire hazards. Perhaps we could use this thread to talk about potential fire hazards, what to watch out for, and good tips on preventing barn fires.

Things like cob webs, lack of fire extinguishers, etc. Everything from seemingly simple things to other things most of us wouldn't think about.

Phaxxton
Dec. 12, 2003, 06:20 PM
The recent posts about barn fires has got me thinking. I am starting to realize that many people are uneducated about fire prevention and potential fire hazards. Perhaps we could use this thread to talk about potential fire hazards, what to watch out for, and good tips on preventing barn fires.

Things like cob webs, lack of fire extinguishers, etc. Everything from seemingly simple things to other things most of us wouldn't think about.

deltawave
Dec. 12, 2003, 06:29 PM
I don't think cob webs are combustible, but their presence CAN indicate a less clean and well kept (and more dusty) environment.

I'm wondering about the insurance ramifications of keeping hay in a barn's loft...will an insurance company allow this?

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CB/TB
Dec. 12, 2003, 06:32 PM
Where I used to board was an old dairy barn, chock full of old hay on the loft floors (there were 2 hay lofts in the BIG barn). The owners lived on -site and the power to all the barns was shut off after the last barn check, about 12-1am. The old owner would check the 18 stall big barn , the 5 stall shed row, 6 stall lower barn- EVERY night 365 days a year, top off water and maybe hay again. Breakfast was at 6am. We did have fire extinguishers around, nobody smoked, and we did do cobweb patrol . Having control of electricity was alittle piece of mind. And, all the horses were used to being led to the door with a lead rope around the neck, or over the nose .

OneonOne
Dec. 12, 2003, 06:58 PM
I'm pretty sure cobwebs aren't combustible, but they can trap little bits of combustible material - wood dust, hay, etc. So they are holding lots of dry kindling.

shelly
Dec. 12, 2003, 09:19 PM
I am a member of our local fire department as a firefighter and public educator. Due to my involvement in horses I have a Barn Fire Safety Talk that I present to horse owners, horse clubs, stables, etc. It covers everything from maintenance of the barn & surrounding areas, training horses to be lead out during a fire, fire extinquisher use & placement and ways to make your property more accessible for the fire department in case of an emergency.

I would suggest that people interested in learning about this information to contact your local Fire Department and ask if there is an existing program or if one can be set up.

ladybug01
Dec. 12, 2003, 09:41 PM
Educating staff and boarders on what to do if a fire is found. Post the 911 address by the phone, memories fail at the worst times.
Where the fire extinguishers are, its scary when there is not one to be found, and how to cut the power if needed.
I speak from experience, I am sad to say.

There is just as much horse sense as ever, but the horses have most of it.

Standardbred clique

LoriO
Dec. 12, 2003, 10:24 PM
A major cause of many fires is the use (or misuse) of extension cords!! When using extension cords around the barn, or even your house, never overload them!!! Yes, they have more then one plug, but that doesn't mean it can safely handle the load that is put on it.

Make sure you have the correct gauge cord for the type of use/ or appliance that is going to be plugged into it.

Also make sure that your cords don't get closed in anything and pinched! Make sure your tack trunk lid doesn't come down on the cord and damage it, or close a door or window on it. Damage to the cord can also start a fire!!

******this is a public service message from your local 911 dispatcher/firefighter!!********* http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

__________________________________________________ __________
**"You are under arrest for operating your mouth under the influence of ignorance!" MPD Officer Beck
**"Member of the COTH Law Enforcement clique!"
**"Member of the Western clique"

tcgelec
Dec. 13, 2003, 07:03 AM
This is a copy of an article I wrote a couple of years ago, based upon talks that I sometimes give to local equestrian organizations.

Barn Electrical Safety
An Overview

By Thomas Gumbrecht, “The Electric Horseman”
Licensed Master Electrician

The first thing we do in evaluating the conditions in an existing barn is to have a good look around. We don't need test equipment or tools for this process, just a good pair of eyes wide open. Let's look around.
On the ceiling, are there bare bulbs for your horse to break if he rears? Remember that a hot filament falling on dry bedding can and probably will cause a fire. If the fixture is properly enclosed and guarded, have birds built a nest in the guard? Or in the case of open fluorescent fixtures, birds also like to find their way into them and nest around the warmth of the ballast. Has this happened? This can be hazardous as the nesting material dries out and becomes heated to the ignition point by the ballast. If you have unshielded fixtures, cover them. If they are covered with hay or debris or cobwebs, clean them. Four-foot fluorescent fixtures depend on the bulb being within a close distance of a grounded metal reflector or pan in order to complete the electrical circuit between the bulb and ballast. So if your pans or reflectors are missing or dirty, you have a poor circuit and your light level will be lower than it should be for the energy you are consuming. So much of electrical safety is just good housekeeping. More on lighting in a future column.

Lets look at the wiring methods: Is the barn wired in the preferred method of PVC conduit and wire, or the less expensive but still safe and serviceable UF cable ("Underground Romex"). Or, are there lamp cords or extension cords nailed up and running everywhere that are obviously not being used for the temporary and portable purpose for which they were designed? If I had a job like that inspected, the violation I would get would read "portable cords used in place of an approved wiring method." Nit picking? Not really. Have we all done this? Yes. Has it caused a problem? Probably not. Not right away, anyway. Therein lies the problem of creating complacency with a potentially dangerous condition. How so? An extension cord is not designed to the standards of building wiring. It is designed for portability and flexibility, usually over a narrow temperature range. Those characteristics that make it ideal for its intended purpose make it much less than ideal as a substitute for permanent wiring. When you throw a cord out on the ground to use for some temporary purpose, you get to do at least a cursory inspection of the condition of the cord before energizing it. When you take that same cord and nail it up to the rafters or snake it above the ceiling it becomes invisible. One of the undesirable characteristics of a portable cord is that over time, and under the effects of extreme temperature conditions, it can and usually will become frayed and cracked, especially if it is somehow moved after a long period of being nailed in one place. Then, of course, a frayed or cracked cord can become an ignition source for the very powerful fuel sources found in an old horse barn. Also, if you are using your 100' cord to power something 20' away, that extra coiled-up cord can act like a transformer coil and create a magnetic field that actually consumes power for no purpose, even if just a small amount. Also, and perhaps most importantly, a common extension cord conductor will be only #16 or #18AWG, good for only 6-10 amps. When using one as a portable cord for a drill or a pump no problem. But when they get tacked up and connected and forgotten about, they become part of the building wiring system, which will be fused for 15 or 20 amps, commonly. So now we inadvertently have created an overfused wire condition. After that cord is there for a while we will think of it as a regular outlet and perhaps add an additional load or two, which can ultimately cause a wire, rated at 6-10 amps to be fused at 15-20 amps. These are the unsafe conditions that creep up on us, we don’t set out to blatantly create an unsafe condition. If you have cords taking the place of permanent wiring, get rid of them.

Does the barn have a circuit breaker or fuse panel? Is the cover snugly attached? Remember that critters found in barns like the warmth usually found in electrical enclosures. Are the circuit breakers or fuses of the proper size for the wire they are protecting? A circuit breaker will usually be installed by someone who hopefully understands the relationship of wire size to ampere rating of the circuit breaker. In order for a dangerous condition to occur, someone would have to intentionally install a circuit breaker larger than the size permitted. A fuse, however, stands much more of a chance of being inadvertently replaced with one of a larger size, and therein creating an unsafe condition. Fuse inserts are now available, which, once installed, cannot be removed and will not permit replacement with a fuse of larger ampere rating. Consider them if your barn has fuses and replacement with circuit breakers is not presently feasible. An example of how an unsafe condition develops: a circuit of #12AWG wire is supplying power to a small water heater and a light in the bathroom. No problem there. A grooming vacuum system is purchased and the power unit is installed in a corner of the bathroom and connected to the circuit which, up to now, was loaded within acceptable limits. Turn on the vacuum when the water heater is in its heating cycle and the fuse or circuit breaker blows. Some resourceful soul saves the day by replacing the 20 Amp fuse with a 30 Amp fuse. Will it work? Of course. Will it burn the barn down? No, not right away, anyway. Here comes that false sense of security again. That #12AWG wire is designed to heat up to a level, fully loaded, at which it will not cause deterioration of the insulation on the wires when fused properly at 20 Amps. Increase the fuse size to 30 Amps, however, and you will begin a deterioration process of that insulation, caused by the increased heat allowed to be generated as a result of the additional amperage carried. This deterioration may take years to reach the point of insulation breakdown, but it will eventually happen. And if the fault occurs near a ready fuel source, such as some hay fallen into a wall cavity, or just dry timber, you will get combustion. If you have over-fused circuits, fuse them properly and add another circuit if needed.
Some will see this all as nit-picking, but others will benefit from the experience of one whose career has let them witness the unpleasant results that are sometimes wrought by these shortcuts.

Hey, it sounds like you are trying to keep higher standards in our barn than in our house! Well, technically, no, the standards are pretty much equal, although the wiring methods used in barns are different from those used in homes. But if I were the one enforcing the code, you bet I would be especially vigilant of animal barn wiring standards. First of all, the environment of a barn is much more hostile to wiring and equipment than a temperature controlled, dust controlled, vermin controlled living space. The wiring in a barn is also regularly perused by 1100-LB inquisitive mammals. Second of all, a human can usually sense and react to the danger signals of a smoke alarm, the smell of smoke or of burning building materials and take appropriate action to protect the occupants. Our animals, however, depend on us for that. And we're not (usually) spending 24 hours a day with them. So we use good safe practices to keep them secure.

Knowledge is power. We have the power to make our barns as safe as they can be for our horses, and we don't have to spend a fortune to do it. Just start by practicing good housekeeping and take a good look around your barn as if through an electrician's eyes, through which I hope I have helped you see.
In a future column, we will talk about the pro's and con's of the various permanent wiring methods commonly used in barns, and of new safety devices which may take barn safety to a new level.

Yours in safe horsekeeping,

Tom Gumbrecht

Note: My hope is that my 30 years experience in this trade can help you and other horsekeepers maintain our facilities in a way that reflects how much we care for our animals. Please note that electrical codes are interpreted and enforced solely by the local authority having jurisdiction. My interpretations are my opinion.

Thomas Gumbrecht
Licensed Master Electrician

As has been said before, it's only a job if you'd rather be doing something else.

hoopoe
Dec. 13, 2003, 08:18 AM
Between Tom LoriO and shelly there should be enough info for a great and needed COTH article.



_\\]
-- * > hoopoe
The ancient Greeks did not write obituaries. They only wanted to know if you had a passion.

MdLib
Dec. 13, 2003, 09:14 AM
Not prevention, but I read from someone on this board, I think, that they invited their local fire dep't to their barn for a demonstration on how to deal with horses in the case of fire. I thought that was a very good idea.

SunshineGA
Dec. 13, 2003, 06:46 PM
This is a great thread... so I will do my part in bumping it http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I think there are some insurance companies that have lower rates or will only insureyou if you have your hay stored at least 75 or 100 ft from the barn. Hay is onething that is just waiting to burn.

-No smoking. (big fat duh)
-store hay in a seperatebuilding
-reduce cobwebs
-reduce clutter (in the event of a fire stuff isnt in the way)
-always always have a halter and lead on every stall door for each horse to be prepared for any emergency!!

I know this is OT but please y'all have leg straps on your blankets! My sister lost her horse to a broken neck because his blanket slipped (it had no leg straps!) EVEN ifthey are in the barn... b/c if there is a fire and your horse has to make a quick escape it can be ugly if his blanket slips! (see I can make almost anything related)

Oh yeah- don't leave toasters with poptarts in them alon...um... in the barn... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif (I amost burned down my house when I left poptarts in the toaster alone... fr 2 seconds... I swear)

"When life gives you lemons, make margaritas!"

http://community.webshots.com/user/sunshinengcsu

Drive NJ
Dec. 13, 2003, 08:09 PM
Our club has also held several horse rescue/fire awareness meetings with local fire people. Here are a couple of tips they passed along to us.

1. They felt cobwebs ARE combustible and do collect shmutz which will also burn. Added point... don't let "stuff" pile up in tackrooms or corners of the barn.

2. Make sure they can find your place AND get in the driveway. Farms (particularly private ones) are often down a long driveway. Is there a clear marking identifying the farm or at least house number at the road edge? Is the opening to the driveway wide enough for a fire truck to make the turn off a narrow road (often with ditches on each side in NJ). Do you have decorative columns at the drive end or a gate that might be closed? Make sure firefighters can get onto the property.

3. When we asked the local fire marshall to do this talk the first time, he was particularly observant when traveling around for a week or so before the talk and noticed that there are a lot of LONG barns with openings to the outside only at either end. It could be difficult to get the horses in the middle out in the event of a fire. Think about it.

4. From a comment at the first meeting from the audience. Talk to the barn (or yourself) and set up and practice some sort of fire drill. Is there a priority in getting the horses out? Where are they going once out - don't just turn them loose - they can run out onto the road or get in the way of the firefighters. This person went to school at U VT who holds regular firedrills at their barns.

Be safe out there.

AM
Dec. 13, 2003, 09:25 PM
Don't just post the 911 number near the phone. Also post the street address of the barn and directions to the barn if appropriate. I'm much more likely to remember 911 than I am to know the street address and nearest cross roads of the barn.

ladybug01
Dec. 13, 2003, 10:23 PM
That is what I am I meant, http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif the 911 street number. Every address here has a number posted at the road for emergency vehicles, how many people can remember the address in an emergency. Having it posted outside the barn as well, is handy when you have to be outside the barn for safety.

There is just as much horse sense as ever, but the horses have most of it.

Standardbred clique

JSwan
Dec. 14, 2003, 07:00 AM
There is also a non-combustible paint that you can buy to paint the inside and outside of the barn. When exposed to flame, the paint produces a water vapor.

If anyone is interested, I'll find out the details on where to buy it.

"I have observed in women of her type a tendency to regard all athletics as inferior forms of fox-hunting”- Evelyn Waugh

Flash44
Dec. 14, 2003, 09:01 AM
Build a concrete block barn instead of post and beam.

Have concrete/asphalt aisles and stall floors, cuts down on dust.

Keep aisles clear.

Practive evacutating the barn blindfolded (you, not the horses) in the pitch black dark. This simulates what you will be able to see during a night fire.

Hardly there
Dec. 14, 2003, 12:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LoriO:
A major cause of many fires is the use (or misuse) of extension cords!! When using extension cords around the barn, or even your house, never overload them!!! Yes, they have more then one plug, but that doesn't mean it can safely handle the load that is put on it.

Make sure you have the correct gauge cord for the type of use/ or appliance that is going to be plugged into it.

Also make sure that your cords don't get closed in anything and pinched! Make sure your tack trunk lid doesn't come down on the cord and damage it, or close a door or window on it. Damage to the cord can also start a fire!!

******this is a public service message from your local 911 dispatcher/firefighter!!********* http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif


Very true I lost my barn on March 30th of this year due to an extension cord that was not mine.
Luckily the horses were all outside and everyone got out but watching the barn and my apt burn to the ground was not fun especially since I was very safety conscious.

__________________________________________________ __________
**"You are under arrest for operating your mouth under the influence of ignorance!" MPD Officer Beck
**"Member of the COTH Law Enforcement clique!"
**"Member of the Western clique"

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Evalee Hunter
Dec. 14, 2003, 03:44 PM
Tom Gumbrect - I hope you are still reading so you can answer my questions. You mention putting wiring in PVC. This puzzles me as I though wiring in a barn should be in metal conduit. The barn where our horses are has wiring in metal conduit. Is there some reason PVC is preferable over metal? It would seem to me that PVC would be too easily broken/crushed by a hoof or even strong jaws & teeth.

How can underground conduit be safe? It is my understanding that the insulation is subject to being chewed by squirrels, rats, etc. & thus this presents a big danger of fire.

You don't even mention GFI outlets which I would think would help prevent fires as well as shocks. The barn where our horses are has all GFI outlets (except the outlet in the ceiling for the electric fence charger).

Also, all the outlets & switches have covers ("wet area application") & I would think this would be a good thing for any barn. This barn was wired less than 3 years ago by a licensed electrician who is also a farmer, but I would be interested in your comments as to whether there is a better way to do things.

Yes, he used circuit breakers, of course.

www.rougelandfarm.com (http://www.rougelandfarm.com) Home of TB stallion Alae Rouge, sire of our filly Rose, ribbon-winner on the line at Dressage at Devon.

SunshineGA
Dec. 14, 2003, 06:34 PM
I forgot about manure piles! At a barn I used to work at we had the fire dept out 2x in one HOT summer to put out our manure pile... it wasn't exactly on FIRE... but smoldering (alot) nonetheless http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif The manure pile was very large to say the least and it resided on top of a nice pile of logs. poor management IMO.

"When life gives you lemons, make margaritas!"

http://community.webshots.com/user/sunshinengcsu

Posse977
Dec. 15, 2003, 06:15 AM
Moonkitty- that was me.

I am also a firefighter. My current farm is way at the back of an estate, and there is no way that an engine would be able to get back there. The nearest hydrant (we are lucky enough to have hydrants) is across the street. If there was a fire at my house or barn, it would mean hand jacking hose a minimum of 700'. To top it off, before I started working for the city, no one- neither police not fire- knew that my house/barn existed.

Have your local FD out to your barn. They can give you some tips on making it safer, plus, they will know your layout, how many horses are there, and the easiest way to deal with your horses. For example, my FD knows to "get the white horse first" and the rest will follow. They know where to shoo them to- two places, depending on the fire and wind direction, where the electric is, and that the fences are electric. They know that the hay is stored upstairs in the loft, and that the whole place will go up very, very quickly. All they will be able to do, is, hopefully, get the boys out and keep the fire from spreading to the exposures.

ladybug01
Dec. 15, 2003, 08:26 AM
The sad thing is, after watching a barn burn. (it was old, half full of bad hay and that was the way they demolished it, sad) It goes up very quickly, the heat is tremendous, you would not have much time to do much, even if you noticed it right away. This was a large old bank barn.
Prevention is the key.

There is just as much horse sense as ever, but the horses have most of it.

Standardbred clique

tcgelec
Dec. 15, 2003, 12:22 PM
EvaleeHunter

Thank you for your post. Some of the topics your questions refer to were covered in the additional articles I referred to. I just copied the first article in the series for this BB.
Anyway, I'll try to answer as best I can.
Metal conduit has not been an acceptable wiring method in agricultural buildings for the last few code cycles. (Article 547, National Electrical Code, NFPA). Austensibly because metal in an environment like a barn, with high moisture content, corrosive atmosphere, and temperature variations, causes corrosion in the conduit.(Although they don't tell us why they make the changes usually)By the way, code changes are generally not retroactive, so if it was legal when you did it you're generally OK)
Yes, absolutely GFI outlets are required, and AFCI (Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter) circuit breakers, although not required, afford even more protection. I devoted an entire article to them, I just didn't include it here.
Similarly, yes absolutely, wet location covers are required. I just didn't intend for this to be a comprehensive set of instructions about how to wire a barn, merely an overview and a description of how I assess a barn electrically)
Yes, Type UF-B ("Underground Romex") is permitted in an agricultural building&gt; It is much tougher than the "Romex" used in houses, and my experience is that the rodents don't usually chew it like they would "Romex". It is required that mechanical prtection be added where the cable is subject to damage, and that, to most inspectors, means sleeving it up to a point 8' above the floor with PVC conduit. For that reason, we just go ahead and do the whole job in PVC Conduit ususally.
Since I wrote that article, a new product has been approved for barns. It is PVC-coated MC Cable. If you think of "BX" cable that has been dipped in PVC, you won't be too far off. It is good, but both the cable and the fittings are expensive. I would save this for those instances where conduit just won't work, such as snaking into a wall cavity.
I hope I've been helpful. Like I said, I didn't mean to cover everything but I thank you for pointing out areas where people might need more information.
I was surprised that it took so long for someone to question the metal conduit thing. When I give talks, people usually question that right away!
Tom G.

As has been said before, it's only a job if you'd rather be doing something else.

ponyjumper4
Dec. 15, 2003, 04:47 PM
After my non-horsey mom read about the 20+ thoroughbreds that died recently in a barn fire she said we will do whatever it takes to install sprinklers, build the barn either right next or under my house and have a fire alarm or something of that sort so that it could be heard in my house. In addition of course to all the other prevention steps.

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tcgelec
Dec. 15, 2003, 07:36 PM
We had a guy from a fire sprinkler company come to one of our horse association meetings, and the problems with sprinklers are that, first, in a non-heated building, water in the sprinkler pipes will freeze, so you need a systerm pre-charged with anti-freeze or with dry pipes (pressurized air holds back the water until a fire starts). This problem is surmountable. But second, and more importantly, you need about a 2" water main devoted just to the barn sprinklers, coming all the way from the municipal water main which in some cases is not possible and in some other cases, cost-prohibitive. You can't just tap off from the house, or from most well pumps. The volume of water needed for a fire sprinkler system is tremendous, and just not available in a lot of cases.

As has been said before, it's only a job if you'd rather be doing something else.

retreadeventer
Dec. 15, 2003, 07:57 PM
A couple of years ago when there was a disastrous fire at a Standardbred training farm in NJ, many people were aghast at the way the fire started -- a water heater left on in a plastic bucket near the outside wall.
I wasn't at all surprised. Having been a barn manager for commercial stables for about 15 years, most of the fire prevention I can talk about is caused by people, not wiring and not construction. People are the biggest danger.
They leave horse's stall doors propped shut with string, twine, cement blocks, and chains. They leave extension cords within reach of horses and other critters in the aisle and fail to unplug fans, water heaters, etc. when they leave. Many people do not shut doors or turn off lights in a barn when they leave, why, you would do this in your house? wouldn't you? People leave hay, other combustibles and bedding stacked in front of their horses stalls or near entrances where they could catch on fire and block exit. They take halters off the horses and leave them somewhere other than nearby, (we halter our horses at all times.) Lead ropes are tied up somewhere instead of hanging free to grasp quickly. They leave cars running parked on grass and sweep hay leavings and shavings out barn doors then park trucks and cars over them to get just two steps closer so they don't have to walk. They leave items in the aisle to trip over in the dark, and also encourage rodents with dirt, old grain and hay, food, and garbage. We don't stack stuff in front of doors at all. We don't eat in our barn at all and nobody is allowed to put McDonalds wrappers, etc. in barn trash. Rodents chew wiring, so we are very vigilant about them. Smoking! Gah! cigarette butts around barns...my goodness I could go on. My point is people are the problem and people start fires in barns. Have safe fire habits when you take care of your horses.
Hollihorse

JumpTheMoon01
Dec. 15, 2003, 08:12 PM
There have been cases of barn fires because of lot's of moisture inside the bales of hay that begins to get very hot. It's not common but it is possible. Kinda weird.

LoriO
Dec. 15, 2003, 10:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Posse977:
I am also a firefighter. My current farm is way at the back of an estate, and there is no way that an engine would be able to get back there. The nearest hydrant (we are lucky enough to have hydrants) is across the street. If there was a fire at my house or barn, it would mean hand jacking hose a minimum of 700'. To top it off, before I started working for the city, no one- neither police not fire- knew that my house/barn existed.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

700' of line to lay in??? OUCH!!!!! Could you possibly get old hose from your department that has been taken out of service and an old nozzle? Just an idea but if you get enough hose to lay in a single hand line you can make a cart to store it on up at the barn. Maybe set it up in a minute man load. In an emergency you can drop the minute man load at the top and run the cart from the barn down to where the apparatus will be laying down the line as you go. It would be a quick way to at least get a single hand line up and running until you can lay in more line by hand.

__________________________________________________ __________
**"You are under arrest for operating your mouth under the influence of ignorance!" MPD Officer Beck
**"Member of the COTH Law Enforcement clique!"
**"Member of the Western clique"

Posse977
Dec. 16, 2003, 08:48 AM
Yeah- it's pretty bad! We are working on plans for something similar to what you suggested, but I fear we won't get it done. We will be moving in a couple of months.
The new barn will be interesting- no hydrant, no on property water source. It's a township and they are VERY adept at water shuttling. Luckily, the closest drafting source is not far up the road- and the FD is just past that.

LoriO
Dec. 16, 2003, 11:00 PM
Tanker shuttles,,,ugh!!!! Granted they aren't that bad, but usually these end up being on the nights where the temps are freezing and everything just turns to ice!! Thankfully you have a good drafting location nearby, that is half the battle.

Good to know that my post before at least made sense to you!! Good luck with everything.

__________________________________________________ __________
**"You are under arrest for operating your mouth under the influence of ignorance!" MPD Officer Beck
**"Member of the COTH Law Enforcement clique!"
**"Member of the Western clique"

RRB
Dec. 17, 2003, 06:00 AM
Just wanted to add -- if you have your local fire department out to the barn, also help them understand a bit more about your horses, your barn, your schedule.

Do the horses go out at night? or are they in the barn?

Where are halters kept? How can they make an emergency halter out of rope or twine?

Where is hay stored?

Etc.

--R