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skittlespony
Mar. 1, 2012, 11:03 AM
Just had a couple questions about importing a horse to assure myself.

1. Is it cheaper to Import a nice warmblood than to buy one?
2. How much does it cost just to Import?
3. Why are Warmbloods so cheap in Europe I have seen really nice ones for $10,000 USD?
4. Is it worth it to go through the trouble of Importing?

Just asking a few questions because I am debating whether or not it would be worth it for me to import a horse or not?
TIA! :)

GingerJumper
Mar. 1, 2012, 11:06 AM
I hate to drag up the past, but only a few months ago, hadn't you just bought a saddle that was so expensive you couldn't afford even a cheap horse, and now you're asking about importing one? Color me confused...

skittlespony
Mar. 1, 2012, 11:09 AM
The past is the past and I really don't care about that now. Situations change over time, and now I have a new Ideas. All I really want to know is the question I asked, Im not concerned about what I said before.

AmmyByNature
Mar. 1, 2012, 11:10 AM
Just had a couple questions about importing a horse to assure myself.

1. Is it cheaper to Import a nice warmblood than to buy one?
2. How much does it cost just to Import?
3. Why are Warmbloods so cheap in Europe I have seen really nice ones for $10,000 USD?
4. Is it worth it to go through the trouble of Importing?

Just asking a few questions because I am debating whether or not it would be worth it for me to import a horse or not?
TIA! :)

For reals?

You really should consider changing your screen name. I don't think you're going to get the kind of replies that you want if you stick with "skittlespony." Too much history.

ETA I'm glad to see that you've apparently become independently wealthy in the past two months, though. Go you!

MoonLadyIsis
Mar. 1, 2012, 11:13 AM
it costs a considerable amount to important and quarantine a horse. Plus you would have to travel to Europe and see the horse yourself (unless you are working with a reputable person who has connections and knows your riding) I've never imported before, but I know quarantine alone can cost upwards of 5k, I'd say if you bought a 10k horse, expect to spend 25k between importing/quarantine and going to see the horse etc. Maybe some other COTHers who have imported before have more solid number for you, but when I crunched the numbers, it didn't make sense for me to do it.

GingerJumper
Mar. 1, 2012, 11:16 AM
ETA I'm glad to see that you've apparently become independently wealthy in the past two months, though. Go you!

:lol::lol::lol:

eclipse
Mar. 1, 2012, 11:16 AM
sigh.........and once again she's rude and curt but here's a thought for you:

Even if you do happen to find a steal of a deal (and it's not likely :winkgrin:) can you afford to bring the horse back across the pond. If you have a pallet to yourself and can't find or know anyone to share with you, add at least $10,000 to the price.....plus quarantine! PLUS the fact that the US$ just doesn't go as far anymore......sigh..........much cheaper and easier to look around N. America and buy.....or lease.....sigh..........

skittlespony
Mar. 1, 2012, 11:19 AM
The reason I ask is because Im not exactly filthy rich but this girl I know was looking for a big eq horse. She ended up going to Europe to possibly import a horse. She wasn't filthy rich either and couldn't afford the $50,000++ dollar Big Eq horse that you would get here in the USA. She bought a horse from Europe for 1/4 of the price it would have cost. The horse just from the training it received in Europe is just about as good of quality as a lot of the Big Eq horses here. This horse is also only 5.

AmmyByNature
Mar. 1, 2012, 11:23 AM
The reason I ask is because Im not exactly filthy rich but this girl I know was looking for a big eq horse. She ended up going to Europe to possibly import a horse. She wasn't filthy rich either and couldn't afford the $50,000++ dollar Big Eq horse that you would get here in the USA. She bought a horse from Europe for 1/4 of the price it would have cost. The horse just from the training it received in Europe is just about as good of quality as a lot of the Big Eq horses here. This horse is also only 5.

There is SO much wrong here. It starts with "this girl I know" and goes downhill from there...

skittlespony
Mar. 1, 2012, 11:25 AM
There is SO much wrong here. It starts with "this girl I know" and goes downhill from there...

Please inform me as to why you think it goes downhill from "this girl I know". I'm not going to disclose peoples names to other people on the internet.

skittlespony
Mar. 1, 2012, 11:36 AM
sigh.........and once again she's rude and curt but here's a thought for you:

Even if you do happen to find a steal of a deal (and it's not likely :winkgrin:) can you afford to bring the horse back across the pond. If you have a pallet to yourself and can't find or know anyone to share with you, add at least $10,000 to the price.....plus quarantine! PLUS the fact that the US$ just doesn't go as far anymore......sigh..........much cheaper and easier to look around N. America and buy.....or lease.....sigh..........

Excuse me! Where are the the people in my life that should be teaching me that its totally fine for other people to be rude and curt to me, but I can't be rude back. I'm pretty sure if someone was being rude to you, you would fire back too.

Summit Springs Farm
Mar. 1, 2012, 11:42 AM
Importing costs are around:
$7000 to import and quarantine
horse prices are all over the board, you can spend as much or as little as you'd like.
We import warmbloods mainly because we haven't found the same quality here. But if we found a horse here we would be happy to buy it as well.

Jsalem
Mar. 1, 2012, 11:50 AM
You're not going to get some kind of crazy deal on a European horse. Do they have lots of nice quality young PROSPECTS? Yes. A quality 4 year old could cost you 15k dollars and up. A quality 5 year old 20k and up. And on from there. The cost to import will run you 10-12k by the time you add shipping from quarantine to your farm.

The question is, do you have any business with a young warmblood prospect? Your friend bought a prospect, not a finished Eq horse. A prospect has "potential" and that's all. The horse may or may not jump 3'6", be brave, and all the rest- hence, it may or may not live up to the potential. And all of the training and show mileage cost plenty. Add that to the cost of the prospect.

I have imported prospects for myself. My rider can ride a slow one, a fast one, a spooky one, a tough one and everything in between. We have a lot of experience producing a finished show horse from a squirrely prospect. I have never imported, without riding, a prospect for a client. Way too risky.

So adding up the cost of travelling to Europe, the purchase price of a quality horse, plus the import costs- hmm, you should probably stick to this side of the pond.

skittlespony
Mar. 1, 2012, 11:54 AM
AmmyByNature I saw your last post and I agree with whole heartedly. If you call being abrupt, impolite, ungracious, and unmannerly being polite than I think you need to re-think things a little.

Beam Me Up
Mar. 1, 2012, 11:58 AM
I don't think that asking a theoretical question that doesn't necessarily pertain to you is "wasting our time." This is, after all, an internet BB.

Shipping and quarantine are not cheap, so looking for better deals in Europe only makes sense if your budget is high enough. For example, it wouldn't make sense to go to Europe if your budget was 20K, since half of it would be eaten by importing costs.

I've heard 40K-50K is about the "break-even" for considering going abroad but that is well beyond my experience, having never done so myself.

Also, you need very good contacts over there, esp with language differences, etc. Horse buying is sketchy everywhere, but if you are shipping to another continent, never to be seen again, it can be even more difficult to find an honest seller.

AmmyByNature
Mar. 1, 2012, 12:03 PM
AmmyByNature I saw your last post and I agree with whole heartedly. If you call being abrupt, impolite, ungracious, and unmannerly being polite than I think you need to re-think things a little.

Um, since you brought it up, I suppose I should repost the essence of what I deleted because I thought I was being too hard on you. ;)

What I said (and then deleted) was that people were nice to you for a few thousand posts, but that when we find out that someone is lying through her teeth and wasting everyone's time, we do tend to get a bit cranky.

And now to add to it, again, only since you brought it up:

People WERE polite to you. And helpful. And wrote long, involved, and well thought out posts. Then we found out that you had one of the most involved, fascinating, and deceptive alter battles I've seen in a long time. Complete with the "my enemy hacked my account and made an alter" excuse.

Again, I had deleted my post because I thought I was being hard on the OP. But since she brought it up, I guess it's fair game.

Everythingbutwings
Mar. 1, 2012, 12:08 PM
The past is the past and I really don't care about that now. Situations change over time, and now I have a new Ideas. All I really want to know is the question I asked, Im not concerned about what I said before.

Well, fiddle dee dee! I'll think about that tomorrow. :rolleyes:

skittlespony
Mar. 1, 2012, 12:23 PM
Um, since you brought it up, I suppose I should repost the essence of what I deleted because I thought I was being too hard on you. ;)

What I said (and then deleted) was that people were nice to you for a few thousand posts, but that when we find out that someone is lying through her teeth and wasting everyone's time, we do tend to get a bit cranky.

And now to add to it, again, only since you brought it up:

People WERE polite to you. And helpful. And wrote long, involved, and well thought out posts. Then we found out that you had one of the most involved, fascinating, and deceptive alter battles I've seen in a long time. Complete with the "my enemy hacked my account and made an alter" excuse.

Again, I had deleted my post because I thought I was being hard on the OP. But since she brought it up, I guess it's fair game.

People may have had well thought out posts, I'll give you that. They were also long and involved posts. Involved in making someone feel upset about something they had wanted to do for a long time. Just because people believe someone is never going to be able to do something doesn't mean they should completely shoot them down and tell them it will never happen. I would have been completely fine if people had just said "sorry I can't help you" or even said nothing at all. To be honest the most annoying part to me was when a bunch of grown up women started ganging up and picking on a kid. To be completely honest you people should have been the more mature ones to ignore it and continue on with your lives.

The whole time it wasn't a bunch of insightful helpful posts by you older more experienced people. But it was a bunch of grown people telling a kid the thing they wanted most would never happen. Sorry if I think its wrong, that just because you thought and wrote long posts doesn't mean they helped the other person. To be honest I have gotten a lot of personal messages from people who are afraid to post on here publicly because this place is like a shark tank. A bunch of women ganging up and killing one person with words just because they didn't like what they had to say. I know that I was taught by my elders that if you don't like what someone has to say, ignore them and walk away. To be honest its not that hard.

LoveJubal
Mar. 1, 2012, 12:26 PM
Anyone have a link with the alter names and the back and forth that has stirred up so much trouble with the OP?

I have looked at some of the, ahem, more "deep" threads involving VPL and Styling of polos, breeches, and belts, but I have yet to find the deception and dastardly deeds thread.

By chance, was it the "I'm dying to make it big in the horse world" or something like that? I think I am remembering the carnage from that trainwreck.

Thanks, I feel out of the loop, but I am still entertained, nonetheless. ;)

TrotTrotPumpkn
Mar. 1, 2012, 12:27 PM
I don't think that asking a theoretical question that doesn't necessarily pertain to you is "wasting our time." This is, after all, an internet BB.

Shipping and quarantine are not cheap, so looking for better deals in Europe only makes sense if your budget is high enough. For example, it wouldn't make sense to go to Europe if your budget was 20K, since half of it would be eaten by importing costs.

I've heard 40K-50K is about the "break-even" for considering going abroad but that is well beyond my experience, having never done so myself.

Also, you need very good contacts over there, esp with language differences, etc. Horse buying is sketchy everywhere, but if you are shipping to another continent, never to be seen again, it can be even more difficult to find an honest seller.

This is basically what I would say. I would add that if you want to stick closer to home, don't rule out Canada.

skittlespony
Mar. 1, 2012, 12:32 PM
I don't think that asking a theoretical question that doesn't necessarily pertain to you is "wasting our time." This is, after all, an internet BB.

Shipping and quarantine are not cheap, so looking for better deals in Europe only makes sense if your budget is high enough. For example, it wouldn't make sense to go to Europe if your budget was 20K, since half of it would be eaten by importing costs.

I've heard 40K-50K is about the "break-even" for considering going abroad but that is well beyond my experience, having never done so myself.

Also, you need very good contacts over there, esp with language differences, etc. Horse buying is sketchy everywhere, but if you are shipping to another continent, never to be seen again, it can be even more difficult to find an honest seller.

Thank you for this information! I think like another person suggested maybe I will be checking out some horses in Canada :D

LoveJubal
Mar. 1, 2012, 12:36 PM
I guess I should respond to your post and the question that was originally asked.

In my opinion, based on doing a little research when a friend was looking into importing, it is still very expensive and much more time consuming to do the import thing. Also, I agree with the other posters that said that you need a reputable contact/representative/agent to help you find good horses with good trainers and to help you with the language barrier.

With that said, if you've got the money and the time, go for it. Usually, the people that are importing the young prospects are training them and then selling them here, so they are not in a real hurry to find something right now. If they go shopping and they find something, they buy it and bring it along as an investment.

skittlespony
Mar. 1, 2012, 12:38 PM
I guess I should respond to your post and the question that was originally asked.

In my opinion, based on doing a little research when a friend was looking into importing, it is still very expensive and much more time consuming to do the import thing. Also, I agree with the other posters that said that you need a reputable contact/representative/agent to help you find good horses with good trainers and to help you with the language barrier.

With that said, if you've got the money and the time, go for it. Usually, the people that are importing the young prospects are training them and then selling them here, so they are not in a real hurry to find something right now. If they go shopping and they find something, they buy it and bring it along as an investment.

The buying of a young prospect to sell as an investment is actually a pretty good Idea. Thank you very much! :)

AmmyByNature
Mar. 1, 2012, 12:38 PM
Anyone have a link with the alter names and the back and forth that has stirred up so much trouble with the OP?

I have looked at some of the, ahem, more "deep" threads involving VPL and Styling of polos, breeches, and belts, but I have yet to find the deception and dastardly deeds thread.

By chance, was it the "I'm dying to make it big in the horse world" or something like that? I think I am remembering the carnage from that trainwreck.

Thanks, I feel out of the loop, but I am still entertained, nonetheless. ;)

There was speculation that the last "dying to make it" brouhaha was skittlespony, but alas it was not. Sadly, the bulk of her drama was under her alter, which I believe has actually been deleted, so I don't think you can read those threads any more. But contrary to what the OP said, they were very nice threads -- albeit *realistic* -- that included a lot of great information and helpful suggestions.

GingerJumper
Mar. 1, 2012, 12:40 PM
Anyone have a link with the alter names and the back and forth that has stirred up so much trouble with the OP?

I have looked at some of the, ahem, more "deep" threads involving VPL and Styling of polos, breeches, and belts, but I have yet to find the deception and dastardly deeds thread.

By chance, was it the "I'm dying to make it big in the horse world" or something like that? I think I am remembering the carnage from that trainwreck.

Thanks, I feel out of the loop, but I am still entertained, nonetheless. ;)

http://chronofhorse.com/forum/search.php?searchid=12518793

The first two locked threads here were the train wrecks.

A different person started the train wreck you're referring to, I believe.

The previous threads also make good "context reading." :winkgrin:

LoveJubal
Mar. 1, 2012, 12:41 PM
There was speculation that the last "dying to make it" brouhaha was skittlespony, but alas it was not. Sadly, the bulk of her drama was under her alter, which I believe has actually been deleted, so I don't think you can read those threads any more. But contrary to what the OP said, they were very nice threads -- albeit *realistic* -- that included a lot of great information and helpful suggestions.

Gotcha... Thanks for the update. I thought I was missing something...

loshad
Mar. 1, 2012, 12:43 PM
The dollar doesn't go very far against the euro these days (although, hey, maybe Greece's financial difficulties will send it crashing and then EVERYONE can get a great deal), so you're unlikely to get a great bargain. I think the last exchange rate I saw was 1.25 dollars/ 1 euro (so if you see a horse priced at 12,000 euro, it'll be about $15k) Importing will add another significant chunk to the price of the horse, as will commission. A person would be unwise to buy without a good agent who has contacts. Some countries may also charge sales tax and/or VAT.

GingerJumper
Mar. 1, 2012, 12:43 PM
There was speculation that the last "dying to make it" brouhaha was skittlespony, but alas it was not. Sadly, the bulk of her drama was under her alter, which I believe has actually been deleted, so I don't think you can read those threads any more. But contrary to what the OP said, they were very nice threads -- albeit *realistic* -- that included a lot of great information and helpful suggestions.

Nope, not deleted :) I posted a link to the username's started posts--looks like we posted at the same time, lol

eclipse
Mar. 1, 2012, 12:46 PM
Excuse me! Where are the the people in my life that should be teaching me that its totally fine for other people to be rude and curt to me, but I can't be rude back. I'm pretty sure if someone was being rude to you, you would fire back too.

And where are the people teaching you that: no, it's not ok to lie and fib and no the past does NOT go away quickly and easily! ;)

For once why don't you just come onto the internet and create a post saying something like "Dear Cothers, I know in the past I've done some incredibly dumb and stupid posts and for that I apologize. I would like to start fresh and I really have learnt a valuable life lesson. I realize that I can't change what I've posted in the past, but I really would like to stay part of this community and hope that any future posts will not reflect what I've done previously".

THIS, will get you accepted back and THIS will probably stop the :rolleyes: you are currently getting!

KateKat
Mar. 1, 2012, 12:55 PM
not to get involved in the drama (although it is amusing) my trainer recently imported one from Europe and when all was said and done, I believe the costs for quarantine/shipping was around $12K. Quarantine periods do differ between geldings and mares too, so you have to factor that cost in. Also, depending on where you are in the US you do have to factor in the cost of shipping to you when the horse arrives on US soil. Basically, its expensive ;). If you have a limited budget I definitely think you will find more than nice enough prospects/horses from US breeders/sellers.

skittlespony
Mar. 1, 2012, 01:00 PM
There was speculation that the last "dying to make it" brouhaha was skittlespony, but alas it was not. Sadly, the bulk of her drama was under her alter, which I believe has actually been deleted, so I don't think you can read those threads any more. But contrary to what the OP said, they were very nice threads -- albeit *realistic* -- that included a lot of great information and helpful suggestions.

There was no such thing as helpful suggestions, try shoot downs.
:rolleyes:

Credosporthorses
Mar. 1, 2012, 01:03 PM
Nope, not deleted :) I posted a link to the username's started posts--looks like we posted at the same time, lol

It's not working :(


As to answer the OP's question unless you have at least 60k to spend I wouldn't even bother looking in Europe. Good horses even young prospects aren't cheap. Take some time and look around your area or Canada. There are a lot of nice horse in the states. You just have to be willing to take the time and look.

Rel6
Mar. 1, 2012, 01:11 PM
Going back to the original post, I don't know why anyone on a budget wouldn't get a TB. If you don't have the facility/skills/time for an OTTB there are still a ton of VERY nice thoroughbreds that are going for much less than I would expect. Take advantage of the fact that warmbloods are very "in" right now. You can easily find a TB with experience at 3'6'' for much much less than you would import one for. Might not be the next Maclay winner, but some could definitely get you experience and ribbons in the division. A lot of people lease a top bigeq horse for finals anyway, bc they can't afford one year round.

(I don't know that the bigeq is your goal, you just mentioned a girl you know getting a bigeq-type horse. Of you're looking for a jumper you're in even better shape...3'6''+ TB jumpers are everywhere right now.)

AmmyByNature
Mar. 1, 2012, 01:11 PM
There was no such thing as helpful suggestions, try shoot downs.
:rolleyes:

Realism, sweetie. Realism.

You wanted to free lease a 3'6" horse to get you to the Big Eq finals by 2013 when you were currently jumping 2'6". First you were given a dose of reality, then people tried to talk to you about revamping your goals -- we suggested exercise riding, making a 3' goal, etc...

Why don't we let everyone judge for themselves:

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=321930

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=322127

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=321659

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=280689

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=280688

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=324231

Rel6
Mar. 1, 2012, 01:24 PM
Realism, sweetie. Realism.

You wanted to free lease a 3'6" horse to get you to the Big Eq finals by 2013 when you were currently jumping 2'6". First you were given a dose of reality, then people tried to talk to you about revamping your goals -- we suggested exercise riding, making a 3' goal, etc...

Why don't we let everyone judge for themselves:

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=321930

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=322127

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=321659

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=280689

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=280688

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=324231

Anyone else think this is a little bit of overkill? This is a child we're talking about. Made a stupid stupid mistake, sounded extremely ignorant, I get it. And skittlespony was definitely naive to think they could just post here without it being brought up again and again (I really don't understand why she still continues to post with such an infamous name...)

But aren't we supposed to be adults? By the vigor with which AmmyByNature is attacking her, I would think Ammy was personally wronged. She's a kid who made a dumb mistake. But I'm now seeing some people (some, not all!) acting much more mature in this thread right now...I'm bracing to get flamed but it just seems a little unnecessary.

AmmyByNature
Mar. 1, 2012, 01:33 PM
Meh, not personally wronged. But I did have a lot of time invested in the OP's previous adventures, and her attitude bugs. She doesn't learn, she is rude, and she told lies upon lies upon lies. And from her attitude, she hasn't changed.

But you're right. I shouldn't continue the drama. You know how we all get personally invested in these boards -- and I am aggravated by her attitude and the fact that she hasn't learned from her past actions. But I should be the one who doesn't reply, since I am an adult.

Which I will start doing right now :)

Credosporthorses
Mar. 1, 2012, 01:35 PM
Why don't we let everyone judge for themselves:

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=321930

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=322127

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=321659

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=280689

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=280688

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=324231

Oh my! How on earth did I miss these gems?

overthemoon
Mar. 1, 2012, 01:40 PM
This... (http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2011/122/7/8/beating_a_dead_horse_by_potatoehuman-d3fead4.jpg)

JSjumper
Mar. 1, 2012, 01:50 PM
This... (http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2011/122/7/8/beating_a_dead_horse_by_potatoehuman-d3fead4.jpg)

My response: "Huh? what the.... BAHAHAHAHA!!"

:D:D

silanac
Mar. 1, 2012, 02:02 PM
thanks to everyone here for making my lunch break SO entertaining!

MySuperExAlter
Mar. 1, 2012, 02:03 PM
Anyone else think this is a little bit of overkill? This is a child we're talking about. Made a stupid stupid mistake, sounded extremely ignorant, I get it. And skittlespony was definitely naive to think they could just post here without it being brought up again and again (I really don't understand why she still continues to post with such an infamous name...)

But aren't we supposed to be adults? By the vigor with which AmmyByNature is attacking her, I would think Ammy was personally wronged. She's a kid who made a dumb mistake. But I'm now seeing some people (some, not all!) acting much more mature in this thread right now...I'm bracing to get flamed but it just seems a little unnecessary.

Except, she keeps making the mistake over and over and over again and it's starting to get a bit ridiculous.

Renn/aissance
Mar. 1, 2012, 02:08 PM
In before the lock...

Cheaper to buy American.

Perfect10
Mar. 1, 2012, 02:13 PM
Can we for once just answer the question? I find it interesting that in the Dear George thread, people are up in arms about an adult criticizing a minor, but when the OP is clearly a minor, adults are free to attack her for asking a question.

To the OP: Importing a horse is a very expensive endeavor. It is much more practical to find a horse that fits the bill near you.

overthemoon
Mar. 1, 2012, 02:23 PM
Okay, I was trying not to get involved (apart from the dead horse, haha), but please allow me to say, as politely as possible to both sides...

The OP caused a lot of friction on the boards. I read some of her past threads, and yes, she acted like an insolant, ignorant spoiled brat. I know that COTH can be a very close knit community despite its size, so it's only natural that the people who frequent and most likely tried to help her originally are peeved that she's still here asking for advice.

BUT. It's not all that mature to jump all over her for past posts when she asked a simple question. There's a good chance that she is just dreaming, and it's not within her reach, which many of you may realize due to past posts. However, she was neither rude nor bratty in her original post. It was only after she was immediately pounced on that she started reacting. Most cornered dogs would lash out as well.

Right or wrong, we're all just banging our heads on the table. Why don't we all just make an effort not to immediately revert back to bashing her without a good current reason? I think we all know it's not really worth the effort, anyway. Doesn't seem to be getting through.

OP, I strongly suggest you either, A) do as a previous poster suggested and make a thread apologizing for how you acted or were perceived to have acted so that you might be able to be involved in productive threads in the future (BE WARNED, if you start getting defensive during this attempt you will put the final nail in your coffin, rest assured), or B) make a new user name, post with maturity and dignity, avoid drama, and hope people don't put two and two together.

alto
Mar. 1, 2012, 02:26 PM
Just had a couple questions about importing a horse to assure myself.

1. Is it cheaper to Import a nice warmblood than to buy one?
2. How much does it cost just to Import?
3. Why are Warmbloods so cheap in Europe I have seen really nice ones for $10,000 USD?
4. Is it worth it to go through the trouble of Importing?

Just asking a few questions because I am debating whether or not it would be worth it for me to import a horse or not?
TIA! :)

If you use the Search function, this has been discussed

& discussed

& discussed

in the last year (& the year before that if you really want to delve into ancient history)

& none of the answers have changed in all that time ...

If you go back & read some of those older threads, they really are worth the effort (including why it's much cheaper to import young stock & geldings).

dags
Mar. 1, 2012, 02:41 PM
Anyone else think this is a little bit of overkill? This is a child we're talking about. Made a stupid stupid mistake, sounded extremely ignorant, I get it. And skittlespony was definitely naive to think they could just post here without it being brought up again and again (I really don't understand why she still continues to post with such an infamous name...)

But aren't we supposed to be adults? By the vigor with which AmmyByNature is attacking her, I would think Ammy was personally wronged. She's a kid who made a dumb mistake. But I'm now seeing some people (some, not all!) acting much more mature in this thread right now...I'm bracing to get flamed but it just seems a little unnecessary.

Children get far too much attention in this world. From mini rock stars to youTube sensations to Jersey Shore to the resulting drunken stardom that inevitably ensues, this is just another example. We boost their little egos until they have no choice but to believe that they do, indeed, know. it. all. And this sport is particularly bad about it, probably because of the celebrity that is often linked to it.

We've hung on, quoted, and researched every word of this child, giving her every right to believe she is Important and reaffirm an already borderline insolent attitude. She made a dumb mistake and gravely needs to work on her egg-like outer shell, but yeah. I read the other threads at the time, there has still GOT to be better things to do than feed this child's ego.

I rarely let my cynical side loose on here... and I'm a little annoyed with myself for wasting some of my lunchbreak on this so I'll try to wrap up constructively. Skittles you served as a convenient example, so don't let my words scramble your eggs. It's expensive to import and it's a crap-shoot. And you're most likely to be successful with it if you have some serious experience on less than perfect but ALSO seriously athletic animals. IMO, it's not the faults of the horse you happen to pick out that gets green riders, it's the athleticism you've never experienced. And a young, well-bred wb in europe is usually pretty darn athletic.

Punkie
Mar. 1, 2012, 02:46 PM
The reason I ask is because Im not exactly filthy rich but this girl I know was looking for a big eq horse. She ended up going to Europe to possibly import a horse. She wasn't filthy rich either and couldn't afford the $50,000++ dollar Big Eq horse that you would get here in the USA. She bought a horse from Europe for 1/4 of the price it would have cost. The horse just from the training it received in Europe is just about as good of quality as a lot of the Big Eq horses here. This horse is also only 5.

Uhuh. That sounds like a likely story :rolleyes:

First of all, add 100K to that price tag you put on the horse already in the states, then you're looking at a Big Eq. horse with some fair miles.

Second, let's crunch some real numbers. For the most part, people buying horses from Europe are doing so through an agent; just removes some of the unknown. So your agent calls you up and tells you that they have four horses for you to see; when can you get on a plane? So you book a ticket for yourself and your trainer (assuming that if you're doing the Big Eq, you are working closely with a trainer that is going to want input on the horses you buy). Let's assume you're going from Boston to Amsterdam with a week's notice; that's an average of $1,200 PER TICKET. So if it's just you and your trainer, that's $2,400 in air fair...if a parent is going (which would also be likely), that puts the tickets at $3,600. Ouch.

So you get to Amsterdam. You're going to have to drive to the farms where you're looking at horses, so you need to rent a car. That's going to be about $200 USD. Then you're going to need to pay for gas, meals, and a hotel. Gas is obscenely expensive in Europe. Let's assume that it's going to be $100 per person, per day to drive, eat, and stay. So assuming three people for four days, that's another $1,200...and you haven't even sat on a horse yet.

Finally you're on your way to see those four horses. Let's put them in a bit of a more realistic price category. Let's say they're between 5 and 6 years old, WTC with a lead change, a few (local) shows under their belts, comfortably jumping 1.10 with an ammy and 1.20 with a pro. All Eq. horse types; not going to be the big jumper or hunter winner, but could cross over. Good temperaments, in the 16 to 17 hh range, attractive enough, etc. etc. There will likely be some hole somewhere, but it's reasonable for those horses to be in the 20-25K price range (that's probably a bit low-balling, but this is all for the sake of argument).

So you try all four horses, you find two that you like and decide to vet the one you like best. That runs you about $2,000 including a consult from your vet in the states. If you're lucky, the first horse passes, and your pre-purchase costs are now in the $7,000 range. If that one fails and you choose to vet the other horse, you're now looking at closer to $11,000. So assuming the horse is $23,500 (if we take the average of 20 and 25), you're now looking at $34,500 before the horse arrives in the states.

So you fly back home and now you start making arrangements with the airlines for your horse (let's assume you use KLM). You can't find a flight with a full pallet, and the farm your horse is at in Europe is charging you $800 a month for him to be there (or a day rate of about $28). So you book a flight with one other horse on the pallet which costs you about $6,500 (at least that's what I spent last time I did this). Assuming you bought a gelding, quarantine will be anywhere from 24 to 72 hours (I've never had a quarantine shorter than 3 days and I've had ones up to a week for geldings depending on how backed up the labs were). The minimum cost of quarantine is around $1,200, but it can cost you as much as $4,000 or more depending on a lot of factors. When determining cost, assume the worst.

So now you have a horse that went from $23,500 to $34,500 to somewhere close to $40,000. And now you have to get the horse home from Newburgh. Hiring a commercial shipper will cost around a grand, doing it yourself will cost slightly less depending on gas milage, if someone needs to take time off from work, etc.

ETA: Oh, and I totally forgot about commissions! Everyone involved usually gets 10%. If your lucky, the seller's commission is built into the purchase price, so the total cost of the horse only goes up $2,350. If not, you've just added another 5K.

So your "less expensive" horse just cost you the same, if not more as a horse with the same record in the US.

It's not cheaper and it's NOT easy.

skittlespony
Mar. 1, 2012, 02:52 PM
Realism, sweetie. Realism.

You wanted to free lease a 3'6" horse to get you to the Big Eq finals by 2013 when you were currently jumping 2'6". First you were given a dose of reality, then people tried to talk to you about revamping your goals -- we suggested exercise riding, making a 3' goal, etc...

Why don't we let everyone judge for themselves:

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=321930

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=322127

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=321659

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=280689

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=280688

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=324231

Yes I do realize what I had said. But my point right now is who are you to tell me to revamp my goals. People were telling me what to do, and being quite rude about it too. Everyone was almost forcing the 3' goal down my throat, yo all could have ignored it but you chose to elevate a situation. Your upset that I lied and turned it around but what choice did you give me. Everyone was being vicious attacking me with text, and shoving things down my throat. Im sorry but you people caused the problem.

Tha Ridge
Mar. 1, 2012, 03:02 PM
Everyone was almost forcing the 3' goal down my throat, yo all could have ignored it but you chose to elevate a situation.

So are you jumping 3'6" yet?

alto
Mar. 1, 2012, 03:09 PM
who are you to tell me to revamp my goals.

yo all could have ignored it

I lied

what choice did you give me.

you people caused the problem.



Think about your own words - you always have choice: you might've easily ignored the advice that was unacceptable to you & just remained steadfast in your ambitions.

In your own words:
I was taught by my elders that if you don't like what someone has to say, ignore them and walk away. To be honest its not that hard.



I have gotten a lot of personal messages from people who are afraid to post on here publicly because this place is like a shark tank.
:confused:
If your opinion of this place is so low, why would you continue to engage in seeking advice.

GingerJumper
Mar. 1, 2012, 03:10 PM
Kids can be accountable just as much as adults can. Besides, she's not a kid, she's 15 or 16. If you're old enough to be allowed to drive a motor vehicle that can kill someone, you're old enough to be polite, honest, and take responsibility for your actions. I say that being 16.

skittlespony
Mar. 1, 2012, 03:12 PM
Think about your own words - you always have choice: you might've easily ignored the advice that was unacceptable to you & just remained steadfast in your ambitions.

In your own words:
I was taught by my elders that if you don't like what someone has to say, ignore them and walk away. To be honest its not that hard.



:confused:
If your opinion of this place is so low, why would you continue to engage in seeking advice.

The reason is because I had a legit question and I hoped people would just answer it and forget about the other stuff. I only wanted the answer to a question, not an ultimatum :\

overthemoon
Mar. 1, 2012, 03:15 PM
Im sorry but you people caused the problem.

Alright, I take back my last post, and officially give up. *headdesk*

KateKat
Mar. 1, 2012, 03:18 PM
who gave you an ultimatum? And there are plenty of people who actually did give you advice. Maybe instead of continually getting at odds with people just accept the advice and ignore the rest?

Everythingbutwings
Mar. 1, 2012, 03:23 PM
Your upset that I lied and turned it around but what choice did you give me.

I stopped giving benefit of the doubt to internet post-happy kids when a prior CoTH kid starved her horse to death.

alto
Mar. 1, 2012, 03:28 PM
The reason is because I had a legit question and I hoped people would just answer it and forget about the other stuff. I only wanted the answer to a question, not an ultimatum :\

Truly, look up the previous threads, there are some wonderful posts by people who import regularly :)

westie55
Mar. 1, 2012, 04:15 PM
To answer your question (and avoid the drama), NO. It is NOT cheaper to import. As so many others have said, it is a very expensive process that will quickly eclipse any "savings" you get on the purchase price.

eclipse
Mar. 1, 2012, 04:29 PM
headdesk...........headdesk..........headdesk..... .....and I'm assuming you'll not be taking my advice and admitting you made a mistake!!! :rolleyes: You don't seem to understand that creating an alter to STALK YOURSELF and stir up so much trouble is NOT NORMAL!! :lol:

Oh, and just to let you know, buying horses in Canada (esp Alberta) will NOT get you a horse that much cheaper (due to a little thing called the oil sands, Alberta is still booming). But, from what I've seen there are LOTS for sale in your own country......although I suspect you have no intention of buying anyway!

danceronice
Mar. 1, 2012, 05:15 PM
Kids can be accountable just as much as adults can. Besides, she's not a kid, she's 15 or 16. If you're old enough to be allowed to drive a motor vehicle that can kill someone, you're old enough to be polite, honest, and take responsibility for your actions. I say that being 16.

Everyone who complains about posters jumping on a "kid" or picking on a "kid"--read this about 100 times.

And no, importing's not cheap. It's not even cheap to get a horse back from Puerto Rico and that's technically the US. Playing in a big sandbox requires big money--there really isn't any way to cut corners and pinch pennies if you want a horse who's already even partway made.

Rel6
Mar. 1, 2012, 05:26 PM
Everyone who complains about posters jumping on a "kid" or picking on a "kid"--read this about 100 times.

And no, importing's not cheap. It's not even cheap to get a horse back from Puerto Rico and that's technically the US. Playing in a big sandbox requires big money--there really isn't any way to cut corners and pinch pennies if you want a horse who's already even partway made.

Right, but then as someone else said refer to the "Dear George" thread where the OP was jumped on for criticizing a kid's equitation.

ponies123
Mar. 1, 2012, 05:27 PM
I know that I was taught by my elders that if you don't like what someone has to say, ignore them and walk away. To be honest its not that hard.

Bolding et all is mine.

Start practicing what you're preaching because, once again, you're going down the same road. Re-read the first page of this topic. Yes there were a few people who held your past against you (can't blame them), but you also received solid, reputable, realistic advice from others. If you were taught to walk away from/ignore something you don't want to hear DO IT.

Believe me, I know what it is like to be a teenager with champagne goals and a beer budget (or, in my case, more like a Boone's Farm budget :lol:). I am not much older than you now, in my early 20s, and I can still vividly remember the physical pain I felt over not being able to show as much or afford as much as the girls I rode with. I also had lofty dreams of being able to find a catch ride on a 3'6" horse because I deserved it so much more than those other girls. But why - because I struggled? Because I spent hours every Saturday working in the barn? I eventually learned that none of the mattered in the Big EQ ring or the Junior Hunter ring. And eventually I learned that just because I couldn't show at WEF every winter or ride with Andre didn't mean that I couldn't love and enjoy horses. So instead of whining on COTH or yelling at "these people" (god I hate the term "you people") I went to the barn. I played the ponies I did get to ride who were not 6 figure horses by any means, but had a lot to teach me in their own right. I fed alongside my trainer. I cleaned tack right next to the girls who DID get to go to Florida every year and I found out they had problems and struggles of their own and we became situational friends. I watched my trainer ride and learned a lot. I went to endless horse shows and a lot of times I didn't ride for the entire weekend, but I cheered on my friends and I got to watch a ton of really really good riders ride. And I learned the ins and outs of the show world (which makes me a very valuable member of the barn now). And sometimes I did get to ride - sometimes it was the crappiest, ugliest horse with the meanest stop and sometimes it was a nice sales horse, but either way I was honored and ECSTATIC to have the ride. Because believe me you, no matter how crappy the horse is and how much of a "favor" you think you're doing for the owner, there's another kid out there who wants the ride just as bad and will do it with a better attitude. So I always said thank you and I never blamed ugly crap-head (terms of endearment, I swear) for our mistakes in the ring.

And now I'm a 20-something and guess what? I never did make it to the Big EQ ring. But if I had, I would have probably made a fool of myself anyway. No I wouldn't have fallen off and yes I probably could have piloted the course, but no where near as well as those girls who I used to say "didn't deserve it like I did". I still don't have a 3'6 horse - in fact I don't have any horse now because boyfriends and college and dogs and trying to eat something other than pop tarts now and then has gotten in the way. But I still have a good attitude and I still sit on anything with a smile on my face and I get rides. Usually not the best ones, but sometimes I do get to sit on a really nice horse and either way I ALWAYS hand back the reins with a huge, genuine "thank you".

So yeah, realizing that you're not going to accomplish your initial goals sucks. It's hard. And it hurts. And sometimes you want to give up. But not giving up marks the difference between the people who will accomplish SOMETHING and the ones who will accomplish nada. And that's why they say you should shoot for the moon - if you don't make it, you'll land among the stars. What the heck is wrong with a 3' goal for now? The 3'6" divisions don't disappear when you turn 18. You have your whole life to make a lot of money and buy nice horses and jump big fences and show against the best of the best. So for now, suck it up and realize that these big mean people of COTH aren't being mean for the sake of killing a kid's dreams. They're being realistic because they have been there and they have accomplished goals and they KNOW what it takes.

And the thing that will set you apart in the horse world (other than money) is attitude. And frankly my dear, yours sucks. So revamp or expect a lot of disappointment to come.

SaturdayNightLive
Mar. 1, 2012, 05:28 PM
Right, but then as someone else said refer to the "Dear George" thread where the OP was jumped on for criticizing a kid's equitation.

Yes, but in the "Dear George" thread the kid involved was an innocent bystander - someone chosen at random and criticized.

In this thread, the kid is an active and antagonistic participant.

There's a difference.

JSjumper
Mar. 1, 2012, 06:03 PM
So yeah, realizing that you're not going to accomplish your initial goals sucks. It's hard. And it hurts. And sometimes you want to give up. But not giving up marks the difference between the people who will accomplish SOMETHING and the ones who will accomplish nada. And that's why they say you should shoot for the moon - if you don't make it, you'll land among the stars. What the heck is wrong with a 3' goal for now? The 3'6" divisions don't disappear when you turn 18. You have your whole life to make a lot of money and buy nice horses and jump big fences and show against the best of the best. So for now, suck it up and realize that these big mean people of COTH aren't being mean for the sake of killing a kid's dreams. They're being realistic because they have been there and they have accomplished goals and they KNOW what it takes.

And the thing that will set you apart in the horse world (other than money) is attitude. And frankly my dear, yours sucks. So revamp or expect a lot of disappointment to come.


All I can say is... AMEN!

Gracious
Mar. 1, 2012, 06:05 PM
ponies123 - Thank you for saying essentially everything I wanted to say, but much more eloquently than I would've been able to say it.

Please, OP, realize that you have to take some of what is said here with a grain of salt, but you have been given A LOT of good advice throughout your posting history here. It might not be exactly what you would like to hear, but there are a lot of knowledgable, helpful people posting on COTH. Learn from them.

naturalequus
Mar. 1, 2012, 06:28 PM
Well said, GingerJumper.



Yes I do realize what I had said. But my point right now is who are you to tell me to revamp my goals. People were telling me what to do, and being quite rude about it too. Everyone was almost forcing the 3' goal down my throat, yo all could have ignored it but you chose to elevate a situation.

People were not telling you what to do, people were offering you advice based on the info you provided. That might include revamping your goals. The only reason people might offer you such advice is based on their experiences and opinions, which is essentially what you asked for. YOUR choice is to take that advice or to leave it.


Your upset that I lied and turned it around but what choice did you give me. Everyone was being vicious attacking me with text, and shoving things down my throat. Im sorry but you people caused the problem.

I wasted half my day perusing the past threads you have posted and still cannot believe you went to such great lengths to lie, even when you now 'admit' it. I'm an incurable optimist and naive; it just baffles me that someone would do this. I don't understand.

It is time for you to take responsibility for your own actions, OP. From the perspective of someone on the outside, who only read your previous threads and did not participate: "you people" did NOT cause the problem. YOU did, OP. You, and only you. YOU made the choice to lie, YOU made the choice to create an alter, YOU made the choice to behave the way you did. No one held a gun to your head.

And I am sick and tired of people giving the OP a pass on her behaviour because she is only 15 or 16 or whatever. She sounds like a behavioural disorder on its way. I recently dealt with one of 'these' - she was leasing one of my horses *shiver* :mad: Yes, she is a child but the OP is still accountable for her own actions - how else does she learn? Own up to your actions, OP. Certain members of this board might not have acted appropriately either, but that does NOT excuse your own actions.

naturalequus
Mar. 1, 2012, 06:38 PM
The reason is because I had a legit question and I hoped people would just answer it and forget about the other stuff. I only wanted the answer to a question, not an ultimatum :\

You hoped people would just answer it even though you recently tricked them and lied to them? REALLY?? :mad:

Note: when you treat people poorly, they don't forget. They SHOULDN'T forget, else they allow it to happen all over again. A lot of people took time out of their day to graciously answer your queries, only to find out they had been strung along and lied to. Given your behaviour, you do NOT deserve any answers!!!! If you want answers and for people to forgive and forget, do what everyone does when they do wrong: APOLOGIZE. Take responsibility for your own actions, don't pass the blame to "you people", apologize, and earn peoples' respect back if you want them to treat you with any respect and take the time out of THEIR day to help you.

alittlegray
Mar. 1, 2012, 07:04 PM
I'm trying SO hard to figure out who the grown ups are here. It's getting more difficult every day.

If you don't like skittlespony, put her on ignore. The more you argue/debate/feed her, the more she will go on.

ridingagain
Mar. 1, 2012, 08:13 PM
Ponies123,

Very well said... you sound like a very mature young lady.

Skittlespony - take a lesson from her. We have tried to give you sound advice, but you get very defensive. You seem to have unrealistic expectations. Many of us had to give up the dream of winning the Maclay or getting to the Olympics. We're not trying to stomp on your dream, we are just trying to get you to be realistic. You can have all the talent, money and desire in the world and still not make it - and from the things you have posted, you are behind the eight ball already.

At some point you decide to be an adult, appreciate what you have - and if you want more, you work your a** off for it.

As for the people who say we adults are attacking her... the OP has gotten the benefit of the doubt more than once. She continues to post ridiculous stuff... it always becomes a trainwreck.... one would think she would learn by now.

(big sigh) Carry on....