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View Full Version : IHSA Show Re-Ride question



Hunter/JumperMom
Feb. 26, 2012, 12:42 PM
But would like some insight into the rules and other thoughts on this.

First to ride in class, horse stops, (me being me says - eh, horse needed more leg, sorry honey it happens), (daughter says horse was sucking back at every jump and didnt want to play, and was not given a crop or spurs), two other riders same class same horse stops, one doesnt even finish! Hmm, during warmup horse looked off a tad but jumped - (remember this is IHSA not Maclay). Now they pin the class, with 3 of the eight riders riding the same horse and all stopped.

Next, warm up rider for the host school takes horse into the ring and it stops with her!!! They pull the horse from jumping

Obviously big drama going on between coaches etc., steward denies re-ride.

But - shouldn't the three riders who all stopped on the horse, and horse stopped for warmup rider have been given a fair playing field and given re-rides?

Again, if it was just my kid (or just one rider), i would have been like oh well, it happens, but the fact that all three riders and warmup rider had issues shouldn't class not have been pinned and all three given a re-ride?

Addison
Feb. 26, 2012, 12:54 PM
Was a re ride requested as per the rules.

supershorty628
Feb. 26, 2012, 12:57 PM
Ideally, yes. That said, with the class already pinned, I don't think you can go back and redo the whole thing. While it's unfortunate for those riders, that's part of IHSA; luck of the draw. ;)

In my IHSA region, rerides were VERY rarely given. I think I only saw a reride once or twice the whole time I showed.

Mayaty02
Feb. 26, 2012, 01:06 PM
its been a long time since I rode IHSA, but I am not sure if I ever saw a reride and I definitley got some bad draws, including at Regionals where I was the high point rider in the region and drew the worst horse there, who stopped. It's one thing I did not like about IHSA.

Hunter/JumperMom
Feb. 26, 2012, 01:08 PM
Was a re ride requested as per the rules.

yes - re-ride was requested for all three riders, by their respective coaches. And denied even after class and warm up rider took horse in and couldn't get it around.


now, here I am probably reading way too much into it, but one rider (:D) is leading the zone for Cacchione Cup by 17 points, she was one of the three whose coaches were asking for a re-ride.
And to top it off, who is there to witness it all, Bob Cacchione, who aggreed that the three girls should have been given a re-ride, especially when the warmup rider couldn't get horse over a fence, and judges were too quick to pin!! oh the drama!!

I have seen two re-rides this season (this is the 8th show of the season), but the fact that not one, not two, but three riders couldn't get it around! then warmup rider couldn't either! - thats more than a bad draw!!

Mayaty02
Feb. 26, 2012, 01:22 PM
definitely a bad draw, but unfortunately there doens't seem to be anything you can do, is there?

Troispony
Feb. 26, 2012, 01:23 PM
Same thing happened to me at Regionals one year- pinned my class, then pulled the horse. I was livid! But once it's pinned, it's pinned... Them's the rules.

Although if I was the steward and Bob himself said the girls should get a re-ride, I would see to it that they did!

Addison
Feb. 26, 2012, 01:27 PM
The only insight into the rules that I can see is that the steward's ruling is final.

The re-ride would have to have been requested before the last horse competing in the class exited the ring.

What's with the editing/deleting?

Hunter/JumperMom
Feb. 26, 2012, 01:32 PM
definitely a bad draw, but unfortunately there doens't seem to be anything you can do, is there?

no - water under the bridge, I was just wondering what the rules were, like if all this drama is going on between the coaches and with the steward, why did the judges jump to pin the class :no:

then when warmup rider couldnt jump the horse, that was just the salt in the wound!!!

I will say meeting Bob Cacchione was great and he really encouraged my daughter to laugh it off, two more shows, and he plans on seeing her in NC!!! so that was sweet!

TBDressage916
Feb. 26, 2012, 01:33 PM
Not that its right, or fair, but sometimes at those shows there just isn't enough spare horses to pull for rerides! Those horses go all day and they may not have wanted to use up another horse that was needed for other divisions.

Hunter/JumperMom
Feb. 26, 2012, 01:33 PM
The only insight into the rules that I can see is that the steward's ruling is final.

The re-ride would have to have been requested before the last horse competing in the class exited the ring.

What's with the editing/deleting?

typos!!

the last horse was the stopper.

c'est moi
Feb. 26, 2012, 01:33 PM
Something very similar happened to me at an IHSA show. 3 riders on our team drew the same (VERY bad, untrained) horse and it was tough cookies for everyone. I wish our trainer had pushed for re-rides more aggressively in this case because my-oh-my that horse was a real mess and quite frankly we're lucky we all stayed on for each of our rounds.

I've noticed (at least in my region) that the pushy—some might say obnoxious--trainers tend to get their way with this sort of thing a lot more often than the less-outspoken trainers. It's unfortunate to think that the pushy-ness of the trainer would have more to do with a re-ride than the appropriateness of the horse, but at least in my experience, I've found this to be true.

Addison
Feb. 26, 2012, 01:37 PM
The rules are online under the IHSA.

MHM
Feb. 26, 2012, 01:42 PM
no - water under the bridge, I was just wondering what the rules were, like if all this drama is going on between the coaches and with the steward, why did the judges jump to pin the class :no:

I have judged many IHSA shows.

Anytime there has been a question of a possible re-ride, I was informed of it by the steward before the end of the class. The steward would then inform me whether to pin the class, or wait for the re-ride to happen.

I doubt the judges is this case "jumped" to pin the class of their own volition. That's not how the IHSA system works, in my experience.

Hunter/JumperMom
Feb. 26, 2012, 01:47 PM
Just read the rules - 4600, very interesting

Addison
Feb. 26, 2012, 02:04 PM
What is interesting? It seems very black and white to me.

Hunter/JumperMom
Feb. 26, 2012, 02:18 PM
What is interesting? It seems very black and white to me.

thats why interesting, very black and white, 3 open riders can't get horse around, requests being made for re-rides, and only one steward could decide as the two other stewards had kids from their school in the class, so steward decideds no re-ride.

from rule book:
4601 When through no fault of the rider, a horse performs so poorly that it is impossible to fairly judge the rider’s ability, a re-ride may be granted.

whatever, i'm not trying to argue, or whine that my kid got screwed, (it's horse showing, been doing this long enough to know shit happens) just was wondering what the rules were and if anyone else had this experience and what the outcome was.

supershorty628
Feb. 26, 2012, 02:24 PM
It says "may" for a reason. It does not say that a reride should or will be granted. In this case, it wasn't. Oh well.

Life's too short to stress out over an IHSA class ;)

Addison
Feb. 26, 2012, 02:36 PM
As Supershorty said, the key word is "may".

Stressing over points for any final or who is in second place is definitely not worth the stress. I agree.

I wish your daughter the best of luck in her IHSA career.

Rockfish
Feb. 26, 2012, 08:16 PM
yes - re-ride was requested for all three riders, by their respective coaches. And denied even after class and warm up rider took horse in and couldn't get it around.


now, here I am probably reading way too much into it, but one rider (:D) is leading the zone for Cacchione Cup by 17 points, she was one of the three whose coaches were asking for a re-ride.
And to top it off, who is there to witness it all, Bob Cacchione, who aggreed that the three girls should have been given a re-ride, especially when the warmup rider couldn't get horse over a fence, and judges were too quick to pin!! oh the drama!!

I have seen two re-rides this season (this is the 8th show of the season), but the fact that not one, not two, but three riders couldn't get it around! then warmup rider couldn't either! - thats more than a bad draw!!


Was the reride requested during the class? Once the class is pinned you cannot request a reride, at least in my zone.

Rockfish
Feb. 26, 2012, 08:18 PM
It says "may" for a reason. It does not say that a reride should or will be granted. In this case, it wasn't. Oh well.

Life's too short to stress out over an IHSA class ;)

This.

Rafiki
Feb. 26, 2012, 08:37 PM
I think the key here is that once the class has been pinned, there's no going back.

This fall in an IHSA show, one open rider rode first over fences and on the short end of the ring the HORSE FELL DOWN. :eek: Another horse tripped in that same corner and the rider came off. After the rest had ridden, the class was pinned.

Next round, two more horses fell down on the same short side. :eek::eek: Class hadn't been pinned. Stewards decided to move the rest of the show out of the indoor and re-ride the entire second open class.

So the two kids in the first class didn't get to re-ride. There was a lot of discussion but at the end of the day, the first class stood (since it had been pinned) but everyone else got to ride again.

rwh
Feb. 26, 2012, 09:16 PM
I think the key here is that once the class has been pinned, there's no going back.

This fall in an IHSA show, one open rider rode first over fences and on the short end of the ring the HORSE FELL DOWN. :eek: Another horse tripped in that same corner and the rider came off. After the rest had ridden, the class was pinned.

Next round, two more horses fell down on the same short side. :eek::eek: Class hadn't been pinned. Stewards decided to move the rest of the show out of the indoor and re-ride the entire second open class.

So the two kids in the first class didn't get to re-ride. There was a lot of discussion but at the end of the day, the first class stood (since it had been pinned) but everyone else got to ride again.

Oh hey there, Zone 1 Region 3'er! I arrived at that show late and was told by a student of the host college (a friend): "Just go. You don't want to be here. Really, just go..." Lol. Oh IHSA...

Hunter/JumperMom
Feb. 26, 2012, 09:44 PM
It says "may" for a reason. It does not say that a reride should or will be granted. In this case, it wasn't. Oh well.

Life's too short to stress out over an IHSA class ;)

For starters not "stressing" came here for a better understanding. So under what kind of situation should/could a re-ride be granted? As i have seen re-rides granted for naughty horses!

Maybe a judge or steward can explain?

Rel6
Feb. 26, 2012, 10:09 PM
It's totally steward's discretion. I saw a rider hang on a horse's mouth and get dragged around by a packer-type and get a re-ride...only to hang on the horse's mouth and get dragged around by another packer-type. Clearly not the horse's fault.

I've also seen some dirty stops, bad bad spooks at unavoidable things (loudspeaker malfunction, snow falling off roof very loudly, etc.) and a lot of others that were clearly not rider error...no re-ride granted. They're rare and very subjective. Sorry, thats just IHSA.

On the other hand? Everyone has an IHSA story about their bad draws. Never heard about one person with all good experiences...which means its all fairly unfair ;)

Flashy Gray VA
Feb. 26, 2012, 10:55 PM
Even though it was 20 years ago, in my 4 years in IHSA (in Mr. Cacchione's region, too) I never saw a single re-ride.

I like his advice about the whole thing, though:


he really encouraged my daughter to laugh it off

I hope that's still the prevailing general spirit of IHSA ...

spacytracy
Feb. 27, 2012, 03:46 AM
I dont see where the OP is stressing, shes getting clarification. Its quite refreshing to see someone trying to understand the way it works and realizing the luck of the draw aspect and rolling with it.

Addison
Feb. 27, 2012, 07:09 AM
The original post indicated some stress.

It happens in IHSA, the luck of the draw will pretty much make or break your day. For example, I saw a former Maclay regional winner draw a less than stellar mount at an IHSA competition and she was out of the ribbons.

The rules are very clear. The steward has the final say. I would expect the steward to have granted a re ride in this case if it was asked for in a timely manner, i.e. before the last horse competing in the class ,left the ring (as per the rules). If the horse had left the ring the steward would have been prohibited from granting the re ride.

Rhody Ram
Feb. 27, 2012, 08:21 AM
I was the warm-up rider for the host team that reschooled the horse.

We asked them not to pin the class before discussing a reride. It was decided between the stewards not to give a reride. I don't know why. The host team's coach cannot be a steward so she was not involved in the decision (she was pushing for re-rides).

The horse was fine in the morning warm-up (I did not warm it up, another rider from that barn did). Once he got it in his head that he could stop in the first class, he was done.

Hunter/JumperMom
Feb. 27, 2012, 08:32 AM
I was the warm-up rider for the host team that reschooled the horse.

We asked them not to pin the class before discussing a reride. It was decided between the stewards not to give a reride. I don't know why. The host team's coach cannot be a steward so she was not involved in the decision (she was pushing for re-rides).

The horse was fine in the morning warm-up (I did not warm it up, another rider from that barn did). Once he got it in his head that he could stop in the first class, he was done.

Thank you.

Squirt
Feb. 27, 2012, 09:03 AM
It's totally steward's discretion. I saw a rider han. SO MYg on a horse's mouth and get dragged around by a packer-type and get a re-ride...only to hang on the horse's mouth and get dragged around by another packer-type. Clearly not the horse's fault.

I've also seen some dirty stops, bad bad spooks at unavoidable things (loudspeaker malfunction, snow falling off roof very loudly, etc.) and a lot of others that were clearly not rider error...no re-ride granted. They're rare and very subjective. Sorry, thats just IHSA.

On the other hand? Everyone has an IHSA story about their bad draws. Never heard about one person with all good experiences...which means its all fairly unfair ;)

Along these same lines, several years ago somebody complained about one of horses in the novice division,she was too small, she was a stopper, blah, blah, whine whine. Now this horse, a cute little appy was the BEST horse in the barn. She was a school horse and my trainers then 6 yr olds horse. So my trainer threw his little girl on to "reschool" the horse. Can you imagine the chagrin when this tiny kid clocks around a 3' course on a horse someone was DEMANDING be pulled? Lol!

piaffequeen
Feb. 27, 2012, 11:48 AM
Gotta love IHSA! I rode back in the late 80's & early 90's for Kutztown and we had one school whose coach happened to be the regional director at the time. She was infamous for denying rerides for any other school, but had no problem letting her riders have rerides. Will never forget the time we hosted a show and one of our horses was a junior jumper who was a tad (LOL) forward to the fences. He was also wondering where the "real fences" were. He was used only for the Open Riders. (I think the highest we went was 3'.)

Well rider was not happy with her ride-demanded a re-ride-coach allowed-got one of our school horses who gets you over the fence safely but it wasn't pretty-best part was when they pinned the class-judge actually went up to the rider and said-I had you pinned first the the first horse-you didn't place at all now.

:D:D:D:D:D

Squirt
Feb. 27, 2012, 11:51 AM
Gotta love IHSA! I rode back in the late 80's & early 90's for Kutztown and we had one school whose coach happened to be the regional director at the time. She was infamous for denying rerides for any other school, but had no problem letting her riders have rerides. Will never forget the time we hosted a show and one of our horses was a junior jumper who was a tad (LOL) forward to the fences. He was also wondering where the "real fences" were. He was used only for the Open Riders. (I think the highest we went was 3'.)

Well rider was not happy with her ride-demanded a re-ride-coach allowed-got one of our school horses who gets you over the fence safely but it wasn't pretty-best part was when they pinned the class-judge actually went up to the rider and said-I had you pinned first the the first horse-you didn't place at all now.

:D:D:D:D:D

Like!!!!

MIKES MCS
Feb. 27, 2012, 03:57 PM
At one show I was helping coach at , a lame horse had to be pulled, They brought in a horse from the field who hadn't been ridden in 6 months.. When asked if we needed to know anything , they said yeah he can be a little quirky, we were told, don't use any contact and sit chilly no matter what, otherwise he'll rear"..this was for a walk trot class! Our rider did fine, but the next rider didn't get so lucky. This horse too was retired for the day after that. In IHSA some times it the luck of the draw , and sometimse it's "How'd you get so lucky"!

Montanas_Girl
Feb. 27, 2012, 09:58 PM
It has been my experience that re-rides are normally only granted in the case of a safety issue or unsound horse. (For example: in my four years as an undergrad, I was bolted with twice, bucked with half a dozen times, and once drew a horse for Novice Fences that I was physically incapable of getting out of a walk - no rerides ever). The only time my team ever got a reride granted was when one of our I2 (Western equivalent to Adv W/T/C) riders got bucked off in the middle of a class.

So, if the horse was doing the see it coming a mile away kind of stop, the rider probably wouldn't get a reride. A dirty spin-and-stop with no warning would likely result in a reride.

HJPony
Feb. 27, 2012, 11:01 PM
Rerides are a constant occurance in my region. Not that the horses are regularly terrible, but the coaches(including my own) are really persistent about it. Regardless of the distinguished rules, the key is to present the steward with your complaint before the class is judged. This is legal and promotes fair judging.