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rustbreeches
Feb. 14, 2012, 10:18 PM
So a parent of another child at school decided my 8 yo gave her a 'dirty look' and grabbed her arm and yelled at her. I have a conference set up for tomorrow, but am I out of line in not wanting this parent allowed in the school unless accompanied by a faculty member? Private school, so not much recourse ie school board. I was ticked enough to want to call the police, but DH said see what the school has to say first. And he is out of town for the week, so I am not supposed to get arrested:) Only mildly joking. Legalish advice welcomed

BuddyRoo
Feb. 14, 2012, 10:28 PM
On the one hand, I'd be absolutely mama bear if I knew that someone touched our kids aggressively--and they're not even mine--they are my step kids.

On the other hand, let's say that one of their friends was at my house and was being rude or disrespectful. I'd correct them. And if that meant grabbing them by the arm to get their attention, I would. And if their parents were pissed I'd say "tough luck charlie, that was on my time."

To be REALLY honest, I'd examine what your kid MIGHT have done and consider the possibility that your kid screwed up. It's possible.

It MIGHT be a GOOD thing that someone stepped up. I dunno. You might have had the red ribbon in YOUR tail that day and stepped up too.

Kids are naughty sometimes. They're trying to learn boundaries. Do you REALLY want to teach them NOT to respect other adults? If this adult was being reasonable, maybe this was a good lesson.

Maybe not. Can't know without being there.

And in that vein (not being there) I'd tread lightly.

God knows our kids are naughty beings sometimes!

red mares
Feb. 14, 2012, 10:29 PM
As the one who generally yells at the kids in my neighborhood, what did your kid do? IME, most people have better things to do than deal with an 8 yo, and frequently kids lie to save their own butt. Even good, saintly kids will lie when asked "did you do this?" by a parent after another adult makes an accusation or observation. Think about, what does the adult have to gain by making up something against an 8 yo? Personally, I have better things to do than deal with your kid, & if I bring something to your attention, he really did do it.

I find it pretty funny that "it takes a village" to raise child until that child is corrected by someone in that village.

Jaideux
Feb. 14, 2012, 10:30 PM
Short of intervening to stop a kid from hurting themselves or others (on purpose or by accident), it's not usually okay in my book for adults to go around grabbing children, even if the little snot DID give them a dirty look (and I'm not saying yours did, I'm just saying even if!!!).

I would just make it painfully clear that you 1) don't ever condone any child disrespecting an adult 2) don't ever want another adult grabbing your kid unless it's a safety thing like I mentioned above and 3) absolutely would like that adult to alert a person in authority (a principal, you, whatever) the next time he or she perceives disrespect coming from your child as you absolutely won't tolerate it and prefer to handle matters on your own.

TheJenners
Feb. 14, 2012, 10:31 PM
Were there witnesses?

stolen virtue
Feb. 14, 2012, 10:32 PM
I cannot remember exactly my son's incident but I had a parent reprimand my son at school harshly when I came to pick him up and I did not fight back. Stand up for your child if you feel that your child was unjustly being made a victim by someone's parent. I had to leave the school with my son and not say anything because I was too upset. He survived, but I was and am still upset by the acts of this other parent. My son is not agressive, and I think he was accused wrongly but I chose to not react since my reaction would have been too angry at the time. He chose to be around a group of agressive boys because he wanted to be friends with one other boy that he liked. My message to him was "don't be with aggressive boys unless you want to be painted with the same brush".

carolprudm
Feb. 14, 2012, 10:32 PM
UMMMM, a dirty LOOK? No, you don't get to touch my child for that.

cajunbelle
Feb. 14, 2012, 10:34 PM
I feel your pain, same thing happened to my daughter many moons ago. When they are little, you need to be an advocate, DO NOT STAND DOWN. This parent is a bully, they should never be allowed to come into contact with your child again. Good luck!

sketcher
Feb. 14, 2012, 10:35 PM
I find it pretty funny that "it takes a village" to raise child until that child is corrected by someone in that village.

Yep. That's what I thought.

If your daughter was being a brat then maybe the parent did you a favor by getting your child back in line and would hope that you would do the same for hers if necessary.

I'd be curious to know how you came about the story. Was it from your daughter? Or an adult that saw it happen?

I think if your daughter misbehaved and an adult requested that she do (or stop doing) something and she ignored the adult then there may not be anything wrong with someone gently taking your child by the arm. I sure would not go by the 8 y.o. description of the events.

Is there a reason that you can not assume the best and ask the parent directly what your child did - if you approach them in a non-confrontational manner you will more likely get the true story and then if you are still uncomfortable you can simply ask them not to do it again and leave it at that.

If you escalate by asking that the parent only be allowed in the building with an escort - that sounds a bit over the top.

BuddyRoo
Feb. 14, 2012, 10:36 PM
Maybe I'm jaded, but I suspect that "dirty look" was via kid. and a parent might have something else to say.

I dunno.

Just had a houseful of teens this weekend--all were very courteous. But I wouldn't have hesitated one minute to make a correction while they were in my home on my watch. (but I know all their parents and that is okay with them!)


So I dunno.

Kids are so damned tricky!!! So much easier to have dogs and horses.

Calvincrowe
Feb. 14, 2012, 10:37 PM
As a veteran teacher (public school) I like the advice BuddyRoo gave you. Please, please get more information before confronting the school administration and the parent in question. "Grabbing your kid" and simply holding his/her arm to keep their attention are two different things. Honestly--I do wish more parents would NOT go "mama bear" when their child is accused or caught doing something inappropriate.

For example, today an 8th grade boy told me to "chill out" when I questioned his reasons for an action. His dad felt I was out of line for reprimanding him. Dear God! Seriously? I hope that works for him as a young adult confronted by an employer or a cop...

red mares
Feb. 14, 2012, 10:40 PM
Honestly, I'd thank the woman for correcting your kid. People don't generally correct other people's kids for fear of being bulletin board fodder. It generally takes something more than a "dirty look" to generate the reaction you're describing.

Your kid didn't die and won't be scarred for life, unless you count learning not to cast "dirty looks" as scarred.

BuddyRoo
Feb. 14, 2012, 10:42 PM
Calvincrowe--

I'm glad you understand where i was coming from.

Love the girls. But they do have the ability (and propensity) to twist things a bit. Love them dearly but I know full well that they are NOT saints and they DO screw up.

I would want more info in this situation because I have a tendency to believe that kids are self serving and try to throw their parents under the bus these days.

Seen it WAY too much lately to not have a radar constantly pinging for it!!!

carolprudm
Feb. 14, 2012, 10:42 PM
As a veteran teacher (public school) I like the advice BuddyRoo gave you. Please, please get more information before confronting the school administration and the parent in question. "Grabbing your kid" and simply holding his/her arm to keep their attention are two different things. Honestly--I do wish more parents would NOT go "mama bear" when their child is accused or caught doing something inappropriate.

For example, today an 8th grade boy told me to "chill out" when I questioned his reasons for an action. His dad felt I was out of line for reprimanding him. Dear God! Seriously? I hope that works for him as a young adult confronted by an employer or a cop...
A repremand is one thing, laying a hand on my child would be a whole 'nother thing

Macimage
Feb. 14, 2012, 10:43 PM
Parent accosted my child

It sounds as though you've already made up your mind that your child was "accosted".
Perhaps the adult actually reached over for her arm because she was being ignored when trying to discipline your child who might have been out of line.

So a parent of another child at school decided my 8 yo gave her a 'dirty look' and grabbed her arm and yelled at her. I have a conference set up for tomorrow, but am I out of line in not wanting this parent allowed in the school unless accompanied by a faculty member? Private school, so not much recourse ie school board. I was ticked enough to want to call the police, but DH said see what the school has to say first. And he is out of town for the week, so I am not supposed to get arrested:) Only mildly joking. Legalish advice welcomed

There is nothing worse than a parent that feels that their precious child did no wrong and shouldn't be disciplined by another adult.

She shouldn't be allowed on the school and you want to call the police because she might have grabbed your child by the arm to get her attention?

This thread has some excellent comments on children:

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=341308

FlashGordon
Feb. 14, 2012, 10:43 PM
I'm sorry, but in this day in age, it is just not ok for anyone to put their hands on anyone else's kid.

You have to draw a line somewhere, and so many people today SUCK at boundaries... which means, you have to take a hard stance. Do Not Touch My Kid. Ever. Nothing black or white about it.

And why was the parent involved, anyway? In a school setting things should be deferred to the teacher.

BuddyRoo
Feb. 14, 2012, 10:44 PM
I don't consider grabbing a kid by the arm to be the same as "laying a hand on"....so maybe we're not on the same page. I would not be okay with someone slapping the kids or something. Is that what you mean by "laying a hand on?"

HenryisBlaisin'
Feb. 14, 2012, 10:44 PM
Short of intervening to stop a kid from hurting themselves or others (on purpose or by accident), it's not usually okay in my book for adults to go around grabbing children, even if the little snot DID give them a dirty look (and I'm not saying yours did, I'm just saying even if!!!).

I would just make it painfully clear that you 1) don't ever condone any child disrespecting an adult 2) don't ever want another adult grabbing your kid unless it's a safety thing like I mentioned above and 3) absolutely would like that adult to alert a person in authority (a principal, you, whatever) the next time he or she perceives disrespect coming from your child as you absolutely won't tolerate it and prefer to handle matters on your own.

I agree with this. I agree that the grabbing was over the top, but if a child is disrespectful to an adult, then yes, that adult should be correcting them verbally. Not knowing the situation, what happened? Did the other parent address your DD about something and get the eye roll in response? Does DD dislike this person for some reason? Or is it possible that DD was making a face at someone else that the other parent misinterpreted? Without knowing (and remember that neither side may be 100% truthful, trying to save face), it's hard to say if the reprimand was warranted. The grabbing was not, IMO

I do think asking for the other parent to be banned from campus is a bit much-her child goes there and she will need to be there sometimes. It needs to be made absolutely clear to her by both you and the school that if she touches another student, law enforcement will be asked to investigate the matter. Don't accept anything less than that promise, and it is reasonable to ask that this parent not be allowed any contact with your child.

One of the worst things a parent can do in this type of situation, though, is automatically assume that their child is completely innocent and could NEVER possibly have done anything wrong. Way too many parents have that attitude, and it enables more bad behavior as well as adisrespectful attitude. She may not even have looked at this parent, but she may also have made a face, rolled her eyes (SUPER rude, in my book!), or otherwise provoked the person...or that person's kid. Does your child get along with hers?

red mares
Feb. 14, 2012, 10:49 PM
Does anyone else remember the thread that was shut down a few days ago about French vs. American parents?

OMG someone touched my child's arm! In public, as discipline! Send in the cops! Really, no wonder Americans raise brats. We are not talking Jerry Sandusky in a shower here.

headsupheelsdown
Feb. 14, 2012, 10:51 PM
You can verbally reprimand away if my kid gives you a "dirty look" and get his teacher involved as well if I am not there. For gosh sake... the kids is 8, if they give you a "dirty look" put your big girl panties on and handle it like an adult.

However, unless you are pulling a child out from in front of a speeding bus, you NEVER lay a hand on (grab, restrain, strike, nothing)someone else's child. NEVER.

Respectfully disagree with some of you.

FlashGordon
Feb. 14, 2012, 10:51 PM
LOL why do people even talk about kids/parenting on this board? It is always such a hot mess.

danceronice
Feb. 14, 2012, 10:52 PM
I'm sorry, but in this day in age, it is just not ok for anyone to put their hands on anyone else's kid.

You have to draw a line somewhere, and so many people today SUCK at boundaries... which means, you have to take a hard stance. Do Not Touch My Kid. Ever. Nothing black or white about it.

I disagree. First, I wouldn't believe the child's version of events. Kids lie to get out of trouble. That's just how they are. Immediately jumping down the adult's throat for grabbing their arm and making it about THAT rather than a child misbehaving, which shouldn't be tolerated in public, misplaces the blame. As long as they don't leave severe bruises or draw blood, no lasting harm has been done and if that's what it takes to get the brat's attention, that's what it takes. Like slapping a horse for biting.

The boundaries need to be "Kids are quiet and respectful and obedient of adults." Where do you think the problem adults come from? Undisciplined children who didn't learn their place in the pecking order.

BuddyRoo
Feb. 14, 2012, 10:53 PM
Well, I humbly disagree. I will grab a kid's arm to get their attention.

What am I harming? Their self esteem? I do it with my step kids. Gets their attention. Poor little divas don't always realize that they're kids not adult super stars. It's good for them and their PARENTS don't mind.

I probably wouldn't grab/yell/talk loudly to anyone else unless they were in MY HOME, but by goodness, I would correct shitty behavior if it presented in my presence because we just don't need that.

BuddyRoo
Feb. 14, 2012, 10:54 PM
LOL why do people even talk about kids/parenting on this board? It is always such a hot mess.

Cuz it's so much FUN! LOL

FlashGordon
Feb. 14, 2012, 10:58 PM
It's just an unspoken rule, in this day and age, you don't grab another kid. Unless you want crap like this to go down.... lawsuits, conferences, blah blah blah. Because there are too many weirdos, so everyone is at a heightened state of awareness.

I dunno, I have an almost 6 year old and a 2 year old. NO ONE has ever needed to touch them, grab an arm, nothing. Ever. And I would never do so to anyone else's kid.

It's like disciplining someone else's horse. MYOB.

LexInVA
Feb. 14, 2012, 11:00 PM
LOL why do people even talk about kids/parenting on this board? It is always such a hot mess.

Because it's like watching a donkey, a cat, and an ogre singing an elaborate musical number together while performing physically impossible dance moves. On the most basic level, you know it's just plain wrong, it's kind of disturbing, and it may get you labeled as a "god damned freak" because you find some sort of entertainment value in it, but you just can't help yourself.

TheJenners
Feb. 14, 2012, 11:04 PM
It's like disciplining someone else's horse. MYOB.

Wait, what? :lol: Horses = children?

rustbreeches
Feb. 14, 2012, 11:16 PM
Really appreciate all the advice. A little more background. This woman was fired by the school as a teacher a couple years ago because she is a beeyotch, and nobody liked her. I have had faculty tell me that they and others at the church have problems with her. Last year she said my daughter was bullying her daughter and we had a meeting, which resulted in the teacher saying the other child was actually the problem.

I am pretty sure DD probably did give her a look, but I am not okay with someone else physically laying a hand on my child. And I have been the parent to reprimand a child for unsafe behavior, or being mean to another child. Never thought to lay a hand on someone else's child. Also never thought to lower myself to jr high behavior by playing the 'you gave me a dirty look' game.


I requested the meeting to get her version and get to the bottom of it. The lunch room supervisor said that she didn't see the incident. Generally, when I hear something from DD, I am sure I am getting 30- 60% of the story, depending on the number of people involved. We all have different perspectives

rustbreeches
Feb. 14, 2012, 11:25 PM
I'm sorry, but in this day in age, it is just not ok for anyone to put their hands on anyone else's kid.

You have to draw a line somewhere, and so many people today SUCK at boundaries... which means, you have to take a hard stance. Do Not Touch My Kid. Ever. Nothing black or white about it.

And why was the parent involved, anyway? In a school setting things should be deferred to the teacher.

Really glad that some people are getting the bigger picture here. It is not okay to raise your children thinking adults can touch them. It is not okay to raise children thinking that adults are always to be obeyed, or respected, because quite frankly, alot of adults suck. I think those that say adults are always to be obeyed or whatever are setting up kids to be victims.

There were enough teachers, principals, etc in the school to handle reprimanding a child for a perceived slight. And according to the lunchroom attendant, DD's drink had just been spilled and she was upset, so there is every likelihood that what the adult thought was a mean look, was actually just DD being frustrated. I don't know, that is why I want a meeting.

I am really not okay with an adult continuing to pick on a child.

Kryswyn
Feb. 14, 2012, 11:39 PM
At Westminster this morning a two women insisted on standing in front of their seats preventing people behind them from seeing the action in the ring. This was in the MSG Theatre not the big arena, so line of sight to the dogs on the floor was awful to begin with.

Several people politely asked them to sit down. One woman (clearly a beta) sat down; her alpha friend refused. I mean turned to the people and said no I'm watching this ring. I said nothing, I wasn't being impacted, but when the Parsons came in the ring she was blocking MY view, and I spoke up using The Voice and asked her LOUDLY to sit down please. She turned and said I'm here to watch the Airedales. "Great, but they're not in the ring now and I'm here to watch the Parsons. So would you please sit down? You paid for a seat, not a stand." She snipped that she was going to stand when the Airedales came into the ring. "Swell, I'll be gone when they're on." And she sat down, and several people loudly thanked me.

My point is that this woman was never disciplined as a child and never learned it's not all about HER.

I think parents need to chill out about people touching their kids. Obviously not the 'bad touching' or abuse, but really, grabbing a kids arm is not going to kill them, and can be used as a teaching moment, ie Mom: That woman just grabbed you for just looking at her. What might she've done if you'd sassed her? What if you'd done it to a man? Best be civil and polite, even if others are not always polite to you."

LAZ
Feb. 14, 2012, 11:43 PM
It's like disciplining someone else's horse. MYOB.

If someone else's horse is in the process of running over me, you bet I will discipline it.

There are not enough manners in the world, equine or human.

I'm in the camp of I'd try to calm down, get additional information to find out what prompted the adult to grab the kids arm. As others have said, I have to believe the adult had to have had some reason to do this--and if it was a taking of the child's arm & giving it a talking to as a wake up call for snotty/bad behaviour then I'd say "see, you act like a jerk, you get treated like a jerk".

Calvincrowe
Feb. 14, 2012, 11:49 PM
Over the last nearly 20 years as a middle school teacher I've seen the results of the "I won't discipline my child and you can't either" syndrome. Those kids suck. They are rude, selfish, self-destructive, uneducated, undisciplined, irresponsible brats. I struggle to find redeeming qualities to like or teach in them. I've been called a Nazi for asking a child where she was going when she stood up and walked out of my room. And, yeah, I reached out and touched her arm to stop her. I am responsible for your child's safety and well-being when they are with me. Please, do your child a favor. Be a parent, instill discipline and respect.

BuddyRoo
Feb. 14, 2012, 11:53 PM
Oh Calvin! Surely you jest! Be a PARENT!?!?!

Do you really mean, be a big meany doo doo head sometimes?!?!?!

Surely you jest!

LOL

(I'm kidding. I just can't believe some of the stuff I see these days. I'm not a parent. Just a step But with teens in my house all the time, it has become my new hobby. "how to mitigate teenage crap" by BuddyRoo

LOL!!!! (all of the kids are actually great in my world, but I keep on 'em all the time and I would absolutely grab 'em if need be. I just bark these days. Bark and smile. Keep 'em off guard. Works for me. Mwahahahaaaaa)

LexInVA
Feb. 15, 2012, 12:01 AM
On the flip side, I'm a bit disturbed by what I see from the parents who take discipline too seriously. I was walking my dog several weeks ago when my Army officer neighbor decked his kid, hitting him on the side of his head with his fist when he tripped and fell off his Razor scooter thingie because he didn't have his helmet on. The guy definitely made a bad first impression on me but I thankfully have not had any dealings with him yet.

headsupheelsdown
Feb. 15, 2012, 12:04 AM
No one is saying at all in this thread that children shouldn't have any discipline. Not at all.

But it is absolutely NOT OK for one parent to grab at/ restrain someone else's child. Discipline can be obtained by other means if necessary.

Calvincrowe
Feb. 15, 2012, 12:30 AM
Wow. I guess I'm a horrible, awful person because I have indeed grabbed at and restrained both a friend's child and a perfect stranger's child on more than one occasion. Perhaps it is a different world here in the PNW. When a child ran into me (8? 10? year old) at a grocery store, stopped and gave me a "whatever!" look after I said "excuse me?!". I held her arm until mom looked at me, and then the girl apologized. IT HURT! She hit me hard, not dinking around, just bolted head on into me, after her mom told her to stop screwing around. Mom was fine with it. Perfect stranger. Doing the village thing. Whatever.

horsefaerie
Feb. 15, 2012, 12:34 AM
Yup. Had a friend that qualified as a burned out teacher. Grade school kids would hit her, knock her down and she wasn't allowed to touch them. Parents would come to the school and threaten HER!

I have been asked to sub teach. WON'T do it. Have no desire to deal with parents that think it is ok for their kid to hit a teacher and the teacher is not permitted to defend themselves. Bull.

I don't think kids are much better than horses at understanding limits and boundaries. I think the three second rule should apply.

I believe it is a parents job to teach their offspring how to live a happy life. Make money, find a mate, eat for health etc. Dealing with all sorts of people is part of that.

The adult involved seems to be disliked but that doesn't mean she was wrong in this instance.

Good luck.

Wayside
Feb. 15, 2012, 12:44 AM
I'm sorry, but in this day in age, it is just not ok for anyone to put their hands on anyone else's kid.

I agree completely.

Now, I would probably make an exception under extreme circumstances, like if two children were actively brawling I could see an adult pulling them apart. But it would have to be a very serious incident for any kind of physical contact to be warranted.

Coanteen
Feb. 15, 2012, 12:57 AM
I think the two sides aren;t applying it to this specific situation as explained in OP's follow-up post.

This was a woman who already has a confrontational history with the OP, who in the past had accused OP's daughter of something that a teacher verified was actually the grabby-woman daughter's fault, and there were official authority figures (teachers) present who would be able to discipline a child under their supervision had it been necessary.

Normally I roll my eyes at the American uber-sensitivity to anyone saying anything negative to someone else's child left that child's self esteem shatter irreparably or something (I mean, there's a reply on the previous page where the poster felt the need to say that their kid "survived" after a "harsh" reprimand). But given the specific circumstances surrounding this particular arm-grabbing, I'm with the OP. Not about the cops, that's just way too silly for me, but about the school meeting.

OTV
Feb. 15, 2012, 01:11 AM
There was a PITA kid at the mall once who had those bloody sneakers with rollerballs in them. He was rolling top speed and not looking where he was going and running into pedestrians while his mom ignored him completely. People had to dodge out of his way to NOT get hit as this kid was being such a moron. He came rolling at me full tilt with his head down...so I braced myself and body-checked that punk into oblivion. He went flying and boy, THAT got his mom's attention. She started screaming at me but all the other people who had gotten rolled over by the little turd - including an elderly man - stuck by and told her off.

Kestrel
Feb. 15, 2012, 01:12 AM
When DD was about 10, she came home with bruises on her arm, clearly from 4 fingers and a thumb. When I asked her what happened, she said she brushed by a classmate's mom in the hall. Her apology wasn't sincere enough for the woman (which I believe), so the mom grabbed her and squeezed. Now, the woman was a complete A*#h&@-!@, with one of those children who could do no wrong. She was also known to administration as a bully, to children and adults. When I spoke to her about the incident, I agreed that DD should not have brushed past her, and indeed should have apologised properly, but the woman was Never. To. Touch. DD. Again.

Ever.

Typically, when someone wanted to talk to me about DD, my first question was "what did she do?" She was a basically good kid, but not a perfect one. We felt that verbal reprimands from other adults were ok, but not physical contact, espically leaving bruises.

Heinz 57
Feb. 15, 2012, 01:32 AM
My point is that this woman was never disciplined as a child and never learned it's not all about HER.

I think parents need to chill out about people touching their kids. Obviously not the 'bad touching' or abuse, but really, grabbing a kids arm is not going to kill them, and can be used as a teaching moment, ie Mom: That woman just grabbed you for just looking at her. What might she've done if you'd sassed her? What if you'd done it to a man? Best be civil and polite, even if others are not always polite to you."

And I wonder what this woman would've done if you had walked up to her, grabbed her arm sharply and then used The Voice on her. Probably told you to back the eff off, Eh?

As for the bolded part...

probably not a good suggestion to give a female child, with the insinuation that if you make a Man mad he might get even more physically agressive with you [than this woman].

I do not see anywhere in the OP's scenario that it was necessary to touch the kid. Messages about not 'sassing' adults or what they might perceive as a look can be delivered just fine without.

JanM
Feb. 15, 2012, 07:01 AM
Considering the second post clarifying the past run ins with this woman, then I don't think her behavior was justified,. The OP's ideas about this woman being escorted on campus sound valid if the actual incident proves to be accurate as the child reported. It sounds as if the aggressor in this case may indeed have issues, and I wonder if she behaves this way toward other students?

Chall
Feb. 15, 2012, 07:17 AM
Your daughter has been accused of bullying her daughter in the past, I'd be very careful about escalating this until I got everyone's version of the events. Even if no one saw THIS particular event, you can get feedback on what was going on generally before the event.
The situation changes, in my eyes, if the mother was protecting her child.

Bearhunter
Mar. 17, 2012, 11:30 AM
I think this subject is important. Unfortunately, there are too many gray areas in situations like this. If a child was in my care and disrespected me, I would most certainly verbally reprimand him/her. However, I do not believe nor would I put my hands another person's child unless they were in danger.

My kids attend a private school and several years ago a parent (who happened to be married to a faculty member) got so angry with a child in my sons' grade (think they were like 7 at the time) that he literally picked the kid up and shook him. Yes, the child was a bit of devil but this was way out of line and the school forbade this man from being on campus. I personally felt this was the correct thing to do.

On a related note, I also think that parents who are verbally abusive to someone's kid is also completely uncalled for. My son is 12 (actually have 12 year old twins) and he has had a bit of an ongoing problem with another child at school. Kid has a terrible home life and acts out, is a bully, hits, etc. I have known his mother for years. Several months ago, the two boys had a disagreement and rather than call ME or the school, she actually called my son on his cell phone and berated him for 20 minutes (why aren't you nicer to Cole, he never doesn't anything, you are mean and uncaring - her son lies to her about his actions.). Obviously, I went ape sh&t on her. My son is no perfect angel but if you have issue with him, call me (or school) not my kid.

gdolapp
Mar. 17, 2012, 11:47 PM
I can see children being grabbed by adaults/teachers to break up fights but for someone to grab a kid for the hell of it. My daughter is special needs and I have been her advocate and fighter. She was given a sucker as a reward when she didn't finish it in time the teachers aide went to take it away from her by trying to yank it out of her mouth once she managed to get it out of her mouth my daughter wouldn't let it go so she banged her wrist on the side of a hard metal trash can till she let go of the sucker. After about the third bang daughter bit her. My daughter was reprimanded for biting the aide when the aide was inflicting pain on her. Needless to say the aide lost her job. All I had to say to the school was, So n So best not be working her tomorrow or any day or I pick the phone up and call the police and the news media. Guess what? the aide lost her job. Daughter had a swollen upper lip and two bruises on her wrist.

I do not condone anyone touching other peoples children unless it is to restrain them from doing harm to themself or others.

rustbreeches
Mar. 17, 2012, 11:54 PM
I do not condone anyone touching other peoples children unless it is to restrain them from doing harm to themself or others.

This was the stance the school took, thankfully. She was read the riot act for touching a child, made aware of how it could have been made a police issue, and hopefully it will be the end of it. She still likes to give us dirty looks though :confused:.

When the facts were brought to light last year about my DD's 'bullying' it was actually her daughter doing things the mom was trying to attribute to my daughter.

The scary mom also flipped out on adminstrators about another boy in the class. She is in the office every week, complaining, and they are all tired of her.

She said some really horrible things about DD, and then asked some very innappropriate questions about our home life. I hope that someone gets her the help she needs. Several people in her church have commented on her bizarre behavior, but that when they try and talk to her, she won't listen.

gdolapp
Mar. 18, 2012, 01:49 AM
I would suggest that you document document and document some more. From the sounds of this lady's bizzare behavior and asking inapropriate questions about your home life I don't want to scare you but is she the type of person that would call CPS just to get back at you? I have found through my daughter being bullied that it was NEVER the bulliers fault it was always the fault of my daughter. That was untill I told the school that if the bullier ever touched my daughter she was gonna fight back. Well it happened and they wanted to suspend her for protecting herself. My daughter was in school the next day. The problem with my daughter was the kid that bullied her the most was a coaches daughter. I still didn't let that stop me. It got so bad that I had the school at their expense transfer my daughter out of district. She spent 8th - 12th out of district at a diffrent school and NEVER once got bullied. She went from having nothing but d's and f's to a B honor roll student.

Like I said I don't want to scare you but it could happen. As CPS is not allowed to divulge the complaintants name to you even if they know the name of the complaintant.

rustbreeches
Mar. 18, 2012, 09:36 AM
Thanks for the heads up. I never thought bout her trying to pull crap like that. I don't know if she actualy would. I know they have applied to several charter schools in the area, as they are having a hard time paying the tuition at our school. Which is part of the problem, I think. The lady has a serious case of keeping up with the Joneses. We never heard a peep out of her until my daughter beat her daughter at a district spelling bee, and then had her pic in the paper a couple times for figure skating. This year, the trouble flared right after I got a brand new car. I think she lets stuff fester and then lashes out at something totally unrelated to the problem.

I worry about what goes on in her home, since she tends to blame stuff her daughter is doing on my daughter.

I am glad your daughter was able to finally have the drama free, safe school experience they are supposed to have.

tasia
Mar. 18, 2012, 10:01 AM
You can verbally reprimand away if my kid gives you a "dirty look" and get his teacher involved as well if I am not there. For gosh sake... the kids is 8, if they give you a "dirty look" put your big girl panties on and handle it like an adult.

However, unless you are pulling a child out from in front of a speeding bus, you NEVER lay a hand on (grab, restrain, strike, nothing)someone else's child. NEVER.

Respectfully disagree with some of you.

This:yes: I would have a problem with an adult grabbing my child.

HoofaSchmigetty
Mar. 18, 2012, 10:08 AM
If your little angel was on a LEASH, which by the way is where ALL kids belong...you wouldnt have this issue.

Tapperjockey
Mar. 18, 2012, 11:47 AM
If your little angel was on a LEASH, which by the way is where ALL kids belong...you wouldnt have this issue.

While I agree parents should parent their children and expect them to be well-behaved...

even I realize that school is an acceptable place for children to be without parental supervision lol.

ESG
Mar. 18, 2012, 11:49 AM
I am not a parent. I have, however, in the course of having been a riding instructor for 20+ years, had my share of run-ins with mannerless, spoiled children and enabling, spineless parents. At no time did I ever feel compelled to lay hands on a child, even when said child was spewing vitriol at me, or pointedly ignoring anything I told him/her.

The woman who grabbed your child was completely out of line. If she'd been a teacher or someone else in authority at the school, that would be one thing; but a parent (and a demonstrably unstable one at that :eek: ) laying hands on a child for an imagined slight? Ummm, no. Whoever pointed out to the woman in question that police involvement wouldn't have been inappropriate was quite correct; IMO, she should thank her lucky stars that you didn't want to press assault charges.

rustbreeches
Mar. 18, 2012, 03:14 PM
. Whoever pointed out to the woman in question that police involvement wouldn't have been inappropriate was quite correct; IMO, she should thank her lucky stars that you didn't want to press assault charges.

Oh no, she should thank my much more level headed husband! My brilliant idea was 5 minutes outside with me, or the police, her choice, but DH's calm nature prevailed! But really, the ass whooping was very tempting

ESG
Mar. 18, 2012, 05:34 PM
Don't blame you at all. I'd have had a very hard time if someone else had disciplined my horse without permission; can't imagine how postal I'd go if it were my kid. :eek:

Just curious - why, if this woman really was on the receiving end of a dirty look from your daughter (really? :rolleyes: ) didn't she just tell you about it, and expect you to handle it? Why in the world would she think that putting her hands on your child would be the right answer? :confused:

JanM
Mar. 18, 2012, 06:19 PM
ESG-I bet the answer is that the flaming nutball (thanks to whoever came up with that description for the really irritating loons we run into way too often) thinks that everything in the universe revolves around her and what she wants. Another case of someone who is spoiled, entitled, and a bully, and someday she'll get her plow cleaned. Unfortunately, it sounds like the cowardly bully has passed her behavior down to her kid.

sketcher
Mar. 18, 2012, 06:28 PM
TThe lady has a serious case of keeping up with the Joneses. We never heard a peep out of her until my daughter beat her daughter at a district spelling bee, and then had her pic in the paper a couple times for figure skating. This year, the trouble flared right after I got a brand new car. I think she lets stuff fester and then lashes out at something totally unrelated to the problem.

I worry about what goes on in her home, since she tends to blame stuff her daughter is doing on my daughter.


Are you sure your daughter isn't doing any of it?

I think it's weird that this woman would be jealous that you bought a new car, let that jealousy fester and then took it out on your daughter at a later date. Or that all this drama is because your daughter won spelling bee and her picture in the paper. My guess is that you might be misinterpreting and that maybe your daughter contributes to the situation more than you think.

JanM
Mar. 18, 2012, 08:29 PM
Sketcher-it's possible there is a two way dynamic going on here, however it's also possible for someone to get fixated on a certain child or family as a target too. If this person is actually targeting one child, then it's hard to say what sets the woman off.

It's amazing how single minded bullies can be, and how they will move to another target once they are made to back off. Looking at the subsequent posts I wonder if there are more targets than just one child, or several at the school. I wouldn't be surprised to find out the other parent is actually a problem in her neighborhood, and in other situations outside of school also. Some people also will stir up trouble constantly, because they thrive on drama and upset (I worked with one of that type) so if nothing is causing problems, then they start something just to watch everyone get upset.

Rel6
Mar. 18, 2012, 09:22 PM
A few thoughts...

Adults lie too. Some adults lie more than kids, especially with kids who know they will be accountable to their parents versus adults who aren't accountable to anyone. I HATE how a kid's version of events is immediately discredited by their age. Yes, their age makes them more suspect and less credible but to assume most of what they say is false? What does that say about parenting skills to assume a child lies profusely? I've worked with a lot of children and know a lot that will baldfaced lie...but I know a lot who would not.

My mother was not a disciplinarian, but the first and foremost rule in her house was no lying. The word "liar" was one of the worst curses you could use to my mother. So while I was definitely not a saint or the most obedient child, it never occurred to me to lie until I hit my teen years.

In all honestly, I'll trust the word of a 6-12 year old over that of a 13-18 year old any day.

Secondly, the horse comparison has come up a few times. If my horse gave someone a dirty look (ears going back a little, but not pinned or threatening) and that person smacked them for it? That would *not* be okay with me. If he's threatening, biting, cocking a leg...feel free to discipline him. I'll even thank you for improving his manners while I'm not there. But for giving you a look thats not ear perked forward? Keep your hands to yourself, please. This goes for my kids as well :lol: