Momitored compound stabling for Eq. horses @ Harrisburg [Archive]

JEP

May. 2, 2004, 08:17 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by upperco:
Utter nonsense.Who are these experts who will determine what is best for over 200 INDIVIDUAL horses with different needs.Sounds like the FEDERATION is again going to take it upon itself to tell owners,riders,trainers,grooms,farriers and veterinarians how to care for train and medicate their own horse or pony.How Absurd and dangerous.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Utter nonsense? I don't know about all that...sounds to me like the management is just choosing to take a stand against cruel or unfair treatment of the animals involved, and has decided that monitoring them for this (brief) period is the best way to go about doing that.

I have not read the whole article, but it does NOT seem likely that there are going to be "experts" telling riders, grooms, vets etc. what to do with their horses. It is far more likely, (IMO), that they will simply assure that horses will be given proper care/treatment, in the sense that none will be deprived of food or water (in order to "get the quiet"), or excessive (multiple hour) "training"/"schooling"/lunging and/or cruel training methods.

I think this could be a very commendable step towards upholding the stand the USEF is trying to take against cruelty/abuse. It will certainly (and rightly) discourage illegal use of meds. It will also ensure that all schooling is done on the grounds, so that any abusive behavior can/will be observed by stewards and the appropriate punishments will follow.

As long as these riders/trainers aren't doing anything illegal or inhumane, they should have nothing to worry about. I think this is a great example to set for the riders-many of whom will go on to become professionals/actively involved in the sport for years to come. It encourages them to practice good horsemanship, and not look for an easy way out (ie: having someone wear their horses down all day and night until they are dehydrated and tired).

Grand Prix's require that horses are on the grounds for the 24 hours prior, and other big events for juniors, such as the NAYRC require a whole lot more! That finals is run under FEI rules, and thus they are subject to zero-tolerance drug testing, soundness inspections, etc.

With all the issues with abuse/drugging etc. that have come to the surface of the USEF collective consciousness recently, I think it seems perfectly appropriate that such an important show adopt measures to take a stand against such issues-particularly when juniors are involved.

Sparky22

May. 2, 2004, 08:17 PM

Box-of-Rox

May. 2, 2004, 08:38 PM

i think it will have little to no impact, whatsoever, because the *majority* of horses are cared for beautifully and, while possibly medicated (it's the end of a long year for those guys), they are legally medicated. The riders who have been winning all year are still going to win, if there's a cinderella story its not going to be because of this stabling method...

so, what will this rule do? it will only effect the FEW horses that are treated HORRIBLY, and since no one is "hurt" by this rule that shouldn't be, it's a good one.

BoR:
"I always feel like an idiot. But I am an idiot, so it kinda works out."--Billy Madison

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."--Churchill

Uberraschung

May. 2, 2004, 08:53 PM

Perhaps this will keep the occasional horse from dropping dead from exhaustion and dehydration. Even better, maybe this will help catch the people whose horses collapse and seize on the floor from the calcium shots in the morning then go into the classes and win in the afternoon.

noname

May. 2, 2004, 08:53 PM

why stop at the eq horses? another words, shouldn't all the horses be treated the same? i would think the problem extends farther than just the eq ring. jmho!

PonyJumperGRL

May. 2, 2004, 11:12 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by noname:
why stop at the eq horses? another words, shouldn't all the horses be treated the same? i would think the problem extends farther than just the eq ring. jmho!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, but eq horses are notorious for getting the crap ridden out of them..why do you think riders have multiple eq horses? Because one horse alone can't take that pounding!

Amanda
"Freedom is nothing but a chance to be better." - Albert Camus

Weatherford

May. 3, 2004, 12:48 AM

I have always wondered about depriving horses of feed and water before a class - that, for my horses, ALWAYS makes them MUCH worse (OK - I don't deprive, but I have had enough long days at shows where, when the class is AFTER their scheduled feeding time, and they don't get fed, they are truly pissy!!!)

I would think the old racehorse trick - if you DON'T want your horse to win the race, you feed AND water it RIGHT before the race - would work better... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I think this is an excellent idea - rather like the FEI horses' quarentine!

It's OUT! Linda Allen's 101 Exercises for Jumping co-authored by MOI!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

buryinghill2

May. 3, 2004, 05:09 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Box-of-Rox:
i think it will have little to no impact, whatsoever, because the *majority* of horses are cared for beautifully and, while possibly medicated (it's the end of a long year for those guys), they are legally medicated. The riders who have been winning all year are still going to win, if there's a cinderella story its not going to be because of this stabling method...

so, what will this rule do? it will only effect the FEW horses that are treated HORRIBLY, and since no one is "hurt" by this rule that shouldn't be, it's a good one.

BoR:
"I always feel like an idiot. But I am an idiot, so it kinda works out."--Billy Madison

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."--Churchill

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I totally agree. Those that are treating their horses well will have no problem with this change. For those that aren't, it's about time someone took a stand and decided that horsemanship and abuse don't go together!
I love this idea, I only wish it had happened a lot sooner. Should be an interesting Medal Finals this year.

ESG

May. 3, 2004, 05:50 AM

Sounds like a step in the right direction to me. Wonder how drastically this development will affect the placings? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

War Admiral

May. 3, 2004, 07:37 AM

Wow. It's a step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned. Thank you USEF!!! Big thumbs up!!

______________

"If you ever had to go to the homeless shelter, you'd give that sorry old horse the BED!" --My old barn manager

katherine w

May. 3, 2004, 07:42 AM

Sounds like they suspect some people of pretty harsh practices. My only concern is for the horses that do better after a night of turn out and walking around. Many of the equitation horses have been around the block and standing in a stall overnight does nothing for their soundness. That's like telling the big-time eventers that they can't handwalk their horses after the cross country phase.

Ghazzu

May. 3, 2004, 07:54 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by katherine w:
Sounds like they suspect some people of pretty harsh practices. My only concern is for the horses that do better after a night of turn out and walking around. Many of the equitation horses have been around the block and standing in a stall overnight does nothing for their soundness. That's like telling the big-time eventers that they can't handwalk their horses after the cross country phase.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not really. The big time eventers run under FEI rules, which have supervised stabling, etc.
I'm sure the Harrisburg horses will be allowed to be handwalked, as well. However, there are likely other practices which will not be allowed...

Unashamed member of the Arab clique...just settin' on the Group W bench.

ESG

May. 3, 2004, 09:49 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by katherine w:
Sounds like they suspect some people of pretty harsh practices. My only concern is for the horses that do better after a night of turn out and walking around. Many of the equitation horses have been around the block and standing in a stall overnight does nothing for their soundness. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, they're going to stand in a stall overnight anyway, regardless of which competition or showgrounds we're talking about. I mean, do you know of any show facility in the country where competitors (not "regular boarders") have access to overnight turnout for their horses? I don't. So unless the horses are indeed getting longed/ridden all night long, or having their heads tied up or any of the other ghastly things some trainers are accused of doing to make their hunters "quiet", I don't see the problem. Unless, of course, you're one of those trainers who use chemical or other "untraditional" methods of ring prep for your equ horses. Then we might see a major reshuffle in the final standings. Would make a nice change to see "honest" trainers do well.

noname

May. 3, 2004, 10:21 AM

hmmmmm....i wonder if anyone will just choose not to go (in protest or not)???? should be interesting to see how it all turns out!

JEP

May. 3, 2004, 10:48 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by noname:
hmmmmm....i wonder if anyone will just choose not to go (in protest or not)???? should be interesting to see how it all turns out!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Indeed. My head is already spinning thinking of all the potential outcomes...I bet we could see a few new rider/horse combos this year, as some of the big horses may not be loving this new format.

Here's what I am wondering about...what will happen with last minute scratches/horse replacements? I could very easily see some horse "going lame" or "getting sick" right before, and having to bring in a replacement horse (as this does happen) at the last minute-one who may or may NOT have been on the property.

You know, "oh thank god for trainer xyz, who just happens to have a friend who has a friend who has the next Missy-to-be equitation horse stabled JUST down the road"...(who HAS been ridden and lounged all night...)I love it when "fate" intervenes http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

How do we think they'll handle these issues? I'm not saying that I think they'll abound, I'm just curious what will happen if/when they arise

upperco

May. 3, 2004, 03:28 PM

Ghazzu(eventers)and ESG (maybe honest trainers will win now) What uneducated and mean comments.Now for mine...I watched the Rolex on TV and while there were excellent performances for that event,none of those performances that I saw would qualify for the medal much less be competitive in the finals..ESG Your comment implying that trainers who are not honest have won in the past is in poor form and how do you know that they have cheated.I doubt it.An apology to all winners and their trainers is the least you should do.Unless you have proof

buryinghill2

May. 3, 2004, 03:59 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Buryinghill2:
Upperco-
You doubt that trainers that have won in the past have cheated? Have you spent any time in the stable area at a major final? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif I think not, judging by your views on this topic.
Yes, it is the minority that are treating the horses badly, but some of that minority are winning, and winning a lot! It's about time that some effort is being made to protect these equitation horses. I've been waiting for this to happen for a long time.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ghazzu

May. 3, 2004, 04:55 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by upperco:
Ghazzu(eventers)and ESG (maybe honest trainers will win now) What uneducated and mean comments.Now for mine...I watched the Rolex on TV and while there were excellent performances for that event,none of those performances that I saw would qualify for the medal much less be competitive in the finals..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OTOH, I'd be willing to place a substantial wager that the overwhelming majority of eq riders would be unable to negotiate the Rolex cross country course. I'd even go so far as to say that some of them might require smelling salts if they were told that was their eq course.

What, BTW was so "uneducated and mean" about pointing out that eventers run under rules which require them to have stewards supervising the stabling area during an event?

Unashamed member of the Arab clique...just settin' on the Group W bench.

GotSpots

May. 3, 2004, 05:00 PM

Upperco: In what way was Ghazzu's comment that three day events run under FEI rules an "uneducated and mean" comment? All she said is that the upper level horses in three day eventing are segregated in restricted stabling under a very strict no medication policy.

Further, you state that "I watched the Rolex on TV and while there were excellent performances for that event,none of those performances that I saw would qualify for the medal much less be competitive in the finals." Frankly, any rider who sat in a hunt-seat equitation winning position over a six foot bounce and drop into water would be swimming. The heart of equitation is to respond to the question being asked and to permit the horse to jump to its best ability. That requires, as George Morris, among others, has recognized, a flexible seat. Of course those riders weren't riding in a "perfect equitation" position over jumps that are four feet high and 9 feet wide and involve questions of terrain, turning, and steering. But you can bet that they were riding in a position that is perfect and appropriate for the test being asked, one that is very different from a 3'6" round in a ring. Completely different set of questions asked of the riders.

EventerAJ

May. 3, 2004, 05:34 PM

Thank you, GotSpots. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

~AJ~
If you're big-star bound let me warn ya it's a long hard ride.

silver

May. 3, 2004, 06:05 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by upperco:
I watched the Rolex on TV and while there were excellent performances for that event,none of those performances that I saw would qualify for the medal much less be competitive in the finals..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't know whether to laugh or cry....

xegeba

May. 3, 2004, 06:08 PM

Neither..........go have a beer, or two! I dare say if my little eq. princess was asked to go out and look pretty at Rolex......... well... I dunno

Carol Ames

May. 3, 2004, 06:14 PM

l Thank you , Got Spots http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif, I will now stifle my urge to puke http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif, as well welas to say many mean spirited things http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif, I refuse to stoop to that level.

breeder of Mercury!

remember to enjoy the moment, and take a momento enjoy!, and give thanks for thesewonderful horses in our lives.

xegeba

May. 3, 2004, 06:21 PM

Carol, I'm sure you can get your point across without being mean... You could try at the very least. PLEASE!!!!!!

Carol Ames

May. 3, 2004, 06:25 PM

ESG, I wondered if anyone http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gifwould mention the tying the heads up, "trick,

where is this new h/jcouncil? Shouldn't they be involved in implementing or explaining this?"

breeder of Mercury!

remember to enjoy the moment, and take a momento enjoy!, and give thanks for thesewonderful horses in our lives.

ESG

May. 3, 2004, 06:28 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by upperco:
ESG Your comment implying that trainers who are not honest have won in the past is in poor form and how do you know that they have cheated.I doubt it.An apology to all winners and their trainers is the least you should do.Unless you have proof<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, sweetie, I don't personally have proof. But then again, I don't need it, since the USEF provided it for all to see in their last listing of suspensions. Why don't you go read that, and then tell me about dishonest trainers not winning the big prizes. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

ESG

May. 3, 2004, 06:31 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by carol Ames:
ESG, I wondered if anyone http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gifwould mention the tying the heads up, "trick,
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I did live in Wellington for over three years, and saw lots of interesting ring prep techniques. But then again, I've seen them at APHA and AQHA shows, and I'd be willing to bet there's a rogue dressage trainer or two out there that have stooped to such tactics. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Unfortunately, no discipline is able to cast stones at any other, at least in that respect. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

ESG

May. 3, 2004, 06:34 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by silver:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by upperco:
I watched the Rolex on TV and while there were excellent performances for that event,none of those performances that I saw would qualify for the medal much less be competitive in the finals..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't know whether to laugh or cry....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wouldn't do either, silver - just write it off as coming from an uneducated HP that's never been faced with anything more challenging than a 2'6" oxer in a ring before. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

OTOH, it does make the sole of my right foot itch to apply itself to said HP's posterior and punt - hard. Let's see her sit that and look pretty! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

ESG

May. 3, 2004, 06:37 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by upperco:
What uneducated and mean comments.Now for mine...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, that about sums it up. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Carol Ames

May. 3, 2004, 06:40 PM

ok.xegeba here goes!,
WE are all involved in a sport , equestrian , , which much of america views as cliquish,snobby, self centered,and cruel, after all we MUST be be e abusing these poor animals, I am sure that, I am only one, of many who has done without shoes, and or food , so that my horses could have both of the highest quality, so, since we are are already misunderstood, and, unfairly judged by most of the fans, shouldn't we try to try to pull together, and exhibit a little civilty, and support of one anothers'disciplines , which,, we hope are united by our Love of The Horse.? How's that?

breeder of Mercury!

remember to enjoy the moment, and take a momento enjoy!, and give thanks for thesewonderful horses in our lives.

[This message was edited by carol Ames on May. 03, 2004 at 09:51 PM.]

Molly99

May. 3, 2004, 06:42 PM

I don't believe the intent of the change has anything to do with making it harder for exhibitors, but rather to help maintain an even playing field. Many of the eq finals horses are ridden all during the night, by many different riders to the extent that there were many riders last year stating their horse was tired.

At the urging of the equitation committee, which really oversees the Medal Finals, not the show itself, the show has taken to same steps that it does for the open jumper horses. Since PNHS is not an FEI show, they are not required to have the restricted stabling, but they do put all the open horses in a specific area and the schooling areas are monitored at all hours.

Regarding the horses going off the grounds, there have been rules in place for the past few years regarding leaving the grounds. Once a horse is on the show grounds that is entered in the medal finals, it may not leave. They have taken this VERY seriously. Now you can have your spare horse leave. There are also rules regarding replacement horses. Has been used a few times in the past.

xegeba

May. 3, 2004, 06:49 PM

That was great Carol!(and not a mean word to boot) And I, for one, with a kid who would love to qualify and go to the finals, would love to know that her horse was being properly cared for and monitored because I can't be there for 6 weeks to make sure that anything but that is happening! So, I personally think it is a great rule and if the kid can't win because her horse hasn't been drilled into the ground, sucks for her! But not for the horse.

Bea

May. 3, 2004, 07:10 PM

hi xegeba.

J. Turner

May. 3, 2004, 07:11 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Box-of-Rox:
i think it will have little to no impact, whatsoever, because the *majority* of horses are cared for beautifully and, while possibly medicated (it's the end of a long year for those guys), they are legally medicated. The riders who have been winning all year are still going to win, if there's a cinderella story its not going to be because of this stabling method...

so, what will this rule do? it will only effect the FEW horses that are treated HORRIBLY, and since no one is "hurt" by this rule that shouldn't be, it's a good one.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

BoR - I agree with part of what you have said, but some of the more famous riders have horses that have to be prepared until well done. Some very famous ones ... I know an assistant who went to Medal Finals, her main job being to ride one of the more famous eq horses half the night to "prepare" him. This was from the mouth of the person who rode the horse.

My Photo Albums (http://community.webshots.com/user/jessicaseamus)

"When I bestride him, I soar, I am a hawk: he trots the air; the earth sings when he touches it; the basest horn of his hoof is more musical than the pipe of Hermes."
-- Shakespeare, Henry V

Toujour souviens-toi: Tout le monde qui fait le grand concours pete plus haut que son cul.

xegeba

May. 3, 2004, 07:23 PM

BEA!!!!!!!!!! Hi Bea!!! What are your thoughts on this particular subject? Anything to add? I'm telling you I was a little naive on this medal final deal. But, generally speaking, I always find out the hard way.

Bea

May. 3, 2004, 07:26 PM

xegeba, my thoughts exactly. Meet you over on the 'worried about helmets thread'?

GatoGordo

May. 3, 2004, 07:33 PM

All I can say to upperco et al is that as long as I aim to venture outside of the ring I like my ribs a lot better than my ribbons, my teeth more than my trophies, and my cranium more than my high-score coolers, and therefore my motto is better left behind than dumped ahead. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

One of these years, I expect the two of them [Bruce and Philip] to have their own division at Rolex, and contest it riding cattle. And they'd both still make the time. -- Heather
Eventing Yahoo In Training http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Vandy

May. 3, 2004, 07:51 PM

Not having read the article, I am curious to know exactly how the monitoring will work. Can the horses be ridden or lunged at all? If so, is there some kind of time limit?

I am apparently a bit naive about these training methods, though I don't doubt they exist...Were people stabling off-grounds to ride all night and then shipping in in the am?

LimoWrek

May. 3, 2004, 08:10 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Ghazzu:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by upperco:
Ghazzu(eventers)and ESG (maybe honest trainers will win now) What uneducated and mean comments.Now for mine...I watched the Rolex on TV and while there were excellent performances for that event,none of those performances that I saw would qualify for the medal much less be competitive in the finals..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OTOH, I'd be willing to place a substantial wager that the overwhelming majority of eq riders would be unable to negotiate the Rolex cross country course. I'd even go so far as to say that some of them might require smelling salts if they were told that was their eq course.

What, BTW was so "uneducated and mean" about pointing out that eventers run under rules which require them to have stewards supervising the stabling area during an event?

Unashamed member of the Arab clique...just settin' on the Group W bench.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Yes, edited because we don't allow personal attacks]
----
Crack is Whack!
Whitney doesn't do crack... Crack is cheap!

[This message was edited by Chestnut Mare on May. 04, 2004 at 09:00 AM.]

Ghazzu

May. 3, 2004, 08:14 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by LimoWrek:

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fortunately, dear, I have the age and wisdom to recognize when I am overfaced.
Someday, perhaps you will, as well.

Unashamed member of the Arab clique...just settin' on the Group W bench.

[This message was edited by Chestnut Mare on May. 04, 2004 at 09:00 AM.]

MistyBlue

May. 3, 2004, 08:27 PM

Quote by Upperco:
".I watched the Rolex on TV and while there were excellent performances for that event,none of those performances that I saw would qualify for the medal much less be competitive in the finals"

An eventer trying to jump that course with eq rider's winning form would be about as effective as a barrel racer trying to ride her horse in a jockey's saddle. Those two sports are on completely opposite sides of the spectrum of equine sports. CAN an eventer dress to the nines, jump on an eq horse and pose prettily over an eq course? Probably. Can an eq rider don an eventer's clothing, hop onto an eventing horse and jump ditches out in the open? Maybe, if they had training in it beforehand. (otherwise we wouldn't find them until the diver's dredge them out of the water elements)
What I don't understand is this analogy. At all. I wouldn't ride llama in PSG dressage either, but I'm not brining that into the equation.
Yes, there are trainers who cheat at the expense of the horse's health and well being. Not all, not even most. But enough that there seems to be the need for a new rule on it. As other's have stated...this will weed the truly talented from the chemically enhanced and exhausted horses in the care of the less talented trainers who still manage to win more than they should. Talent should outshine unscrupulous behavior in the race for the ribbons. This rule seems to be a step in the right direction to making the odds more even for the honest folk out there. Who deserve major kudos for continuing on in a sometimes thankless sport that's willing to reward treachery over talent.

Equine Crash Test Dummy
Member of: Non-GPA Clique
Auto Release Clique
Connecticut Clique
Helmet Nazi Clique

JustJump

May. 4, 2004, 04:41 AM

So...what's the problem? This is similar to the restrictions on FEI Grand Prix horses, who have to be in the "FEI tent" for 24 hours to help the stewards keep on eye on "things."

It's a good move, IMO.

upperco

May. 4, 2004, 06:53 AM

The comments about me being just a 2'6" Hp is pretty accurate,but that doesn't mean that I am ignorant about horses or riding. While I am not a great rider I am fortunate to know some excellent trainers in the northeast.I am a spectator at the A shows in the top rated divisions and have watched the New England Medal Finals for many years I have been to the NE finals early in the morning driving over with some of the kids and I have never seen of heard of any abuse to the horses.Joe Dotoli and a host of equitiaion trainers work all year long to put on a GREAT event.The statements knocking the young equitation riders "posing" inability to ride the cross country course has no validity as they are not trained to do that.I was talking about the stadium jumping phase where I saw(considering that they are the best in the world) very rough performances with rider errors and some poor jumping,leg hanging etc.The equitation riders in our country are the best and I have seen them jump courses that were equal to or more difficult in better style and with more obedient horses and with better all around performances. And what is it with the white stuff on the horses for the cross country phase? Our young riders are not just rich kids on million dollar horses trained by crooked trainers who drug their horses. These comments are mean and without proof.You cna't compare the monitoring of FEI grand prix jumpers ridden by olympic riders to horses ridden by children(some in their early teens) in possibly their first medal finals experience. More regulations based upon speculation and gossip.If there was actually any abuse to horses where were the stewards and why didn't anyone step forward.I never heard of any charges being filed,any hearings or suspensions/fines.

Ghazzu

May. 4, 2004, 07:12 AM

Upperco, you definitely read a lot more into things than people write.

And I still think my comment on eq riders vs. event riders is at least as valid as yours.

You brought up the skills comparison first.

The whole point of equitation, I thought, was to produce *riders*. Either you can ride effectively or not.
Pretty isn't a contender in the real world.

Unashamed member of the Arab clique...just settin' on the Group W bench.

DMK

May. 4, 2004, 07:29 AM

I totally agree that comparing the style of riding between eventing and equitation is pretty much a waste of 1's and 0's (or oxygen if you have the discussion in real life). They are different and yammering about it won't change that.

But the top equitation riders are, as a rule, exceptionally talented riders who can - and do - ride a variety of horses quite succesfully. Rarely does a well mounted poser do consistantly well at the top. Of these top riders, I'm sure if it was their inclination, they could be successful at any equine endeavor including eventing. The same holds true of any top rider, including eventers.

Somewhere in Texas a village is missing its idiot. www.seeyageorge.com (http://www.seeyageorge.com)

Vandy

May. 4, 2004, 07:30 AM

Upperco, I hear what you're saying but I think you're missing the point. I rode at the New England Finals (and the Medal Finals) for years, and actually trained with the Dotolis as a junior. You are right, the Dotoli's didn't even have a pro riding for them when I was a junior - all the juniors prepped the horses themselves, and many were competitive not only at the New England Finals but at Harrisburg as well. Same goes for many of the barns on that circuit.

However, the New England Finals aren't Harrisburg. They are a very prestigious local final at 3'3", but the Medal Finals at Harrisburg is a far more strenuous test of the horse and rider and a far more difficult competition in general. The pool of competitors (and their trainers) is a lot larger and there is a lot more at stake.

I was surprised to hear about some of the methods described on this thread, but from what I have seen and what I know of many trainers on the A circuit, I can believe it. And to your other point, while I agree that perhaps an equitation rider could navigate the stadium phase of Rolex as well or even more smoothly than some of the competitors, the true test of Rolex - the cross country - would be a real challenge for most eq riders - and most eq horses!

IMHO it's like comparing basketball and football. Is one type of athlete better than the other? No, just different.

[This message was edited by Vandy on May. 04, 2004 at 11:06 AM.]

ESG

May. 4, 2004, 07:42 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by upperco:
The comments about me being just a 2'6" Hp is pretty accurate,but that doesn't mean that I am ignorant about horses or riding.

Well, you certainly are about some aspects of both horses and riding. Your comments are pretty clearly those of one uninformed and naive.

While I am not a great rider I am fortunate to know some excellent trainers in the northeast.I am a spectator at the A shows in the top rated divisions and have watched the New England Medal Finals for many years

How nice for you that you had that experience.

I have been to the NE finals early in the morning driving over with some of the kids and I have never seen of heard of any abuse to the horses.

I see; because you drove over in the morning with some of the riders means you know all about what goes on in the stable at night? Uh huh.................. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Joe Dotoli and a host of equitiaion trainers work all year long to put on a GREAT event.

No, sweetie, the trainers don't put on the event - they train the riders.

The statements knocking the young equitation riders "posing" inability to ride the cross country course has no validity as they are not trained to do that.I was talking about the stadium jumping phase where I saw(considering that they are the best in the world) very rough performances with rider errors and some poor jumping,leg hanging etc.

You have a point. But then, I doubt that your average equitation horse/rider pair would have been able to get through the required dressage test and XC phases well and safely just to GET to the showjumping phase at a five star CCI.

The equitation riders in our country are the best and I have seen them jump courses that were equal to or more difficult in better style and with more obedient horses and with better all around performances.

Perhaps you should get out more. And I seriously doubt that there is any comparison between successfully riding a 3'6" medal class and a 4'+ CCI***** course.

And what is it with the white stuff on the horses for the cross country phase?

Well, here's at least one person who missed the Rolex broadcast. Or did you just not pay attention to the commentary that addressed that very thing?

Our young riders are not just rich kids on million dollar horses trained by crooked trainers who drug their horses. These comments are mean and without proof.

Lots of proof, dear. Just ask those on the suspension list how they got there. If you've been to the NEHC medal finals, I'm sure you'll recognize some of the names on the list. Just because you don't want to acknowledge an industry-wide problem doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Just look for the thread entitled "THE Suspension list" and you'll see what I mean. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

You cna't compare the monitoring of FEI grand prix jumpers ridden by olympic riders to horses ridden by children(some in their early teens) in possibly their first medal finals experience.

Why not? It's not penalizing anyone in any way - merely trying to ensure that level playing field that we're all in search of.

More regulations based upon speculation and gossip.If there was actually any abuse to horses where were the stewards and why didn't anyone step forward.I never heard of any charges being filed,any hearings or suspensions/fines.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Only because you haven't been looking/listening/paying attention. Please see suspension thread mentioned above.

[This message was edited by ESG on May. 04, 2004 at 11:08 AM.]

ESG

May. 4, 2004, 07:55 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by katherine w:
Quoted from ESG (p.1)

"Well, they're going to stand in a stall overnight anyway, regardless of which competition or showgrounds we're talking about. I mean, do you know of any show facility in the country where competitors (not "regular boarders") have access to overnight turnout for their horses? I don't. "

There are always nearby farms that are willing to lease a paddock. There were many times when I shipped my horse ten minutes away so he could enjoy the freedom of a paddock overnight. <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How nice that you were able to do that for your horse. But I was actually referring to the large show barns that take multiple horses to show that haven't the luxury of that option.

Vandy

May. 4, 2004, 08:04 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ESG:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by upperco:
Joe Dotoli and a host of equitiaion trainers work all year long to put on a GREAT event.

_No, sweetie, the trainers don't put on the event - they train the riders. _

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, Upperco is right in this case. The New England Finals are organized/managed by Joe Dotoli and the New England Equitation Committee, which is comprised of trainers from that region.

ESG

May. 4, 2004, 08:11 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Vandy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ESG:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by upperco:
Joe Dotoli and a host of equitiaion trainers work all year long to put on a GREAT event.

_No, sweetie, the trainers don't put on the event - they train the riders. _

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, Upperco is right in this case. The New England Finals are organized/managed by Joe Dotoli and the New England Equitation Committee, which is comprised of trainers from that region.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the information. I stand (or sit) corrected. I didn't remember the trainers being so involved when I lived in MA. Of course, that was a loooong time ago, so obviously things have changed. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Thanks again for the correction.

diKecnadnuS

May. 4, 2004, 08:21 AM

This sounds a lot like pony-finals. Where the ponies have to be there by a certain day, etc. etc. etc.

Are the eq horses allowed to be ridden by professionals?? Or just by their junior riders??

Isn't it a pain for those who have big barns and lots of horses showing in other divisions (not just the finals) having their eq horse stabled somewhere completely different?

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dcm

May. 4, 2004, 10:08 AM

As the owner of an eq horse who is being used by someone other than my dtr for medals, I welcome this new rule.

I have never witnessed this use/abuse of eq horses like this, and hope to never do so. If I ever thought someone was doing this to my horse, they would not come within 10 feet of him ever again. Our horse is well schooled, but not over jumped or even over ridden.

I cringe at the thought of some horses being ridden as some of you describe. These eq horses should not have to be worn out or drugged to be obedient.

Cheers to PNHS for implementing this. Lets hope it stands.

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J. Turner

May. 4, 2004, 10:14 AM

I would disagree that some of the junior riders couldn't do the x-country fences on their eq horses. No, they are not conditioned to do the course. HOwever, some of the very good riders who also do the high junior jumpers could probably navigate some of those technical combinations and corners. Some of those horses are brave and would be fine. The water and big drops, probably not. But I'm talking about going cold turkey and and doing it sight unseen (the horses). Some of those riders could ride forwards and jump some of the big single fences (the junior jumpers are bigger) and some of the technical combos like the hollow or sunken road could probably be taken on by the best eq riders if they got it in their mind to be aggressive enough.

I definitely agree they're not conditioned to do the whole shebang and haven't trained large drops or water.

That said. Yes, there are some kids who couldn't carry a green horse around Harrisburg and finesse it. Some of them need an old campaigner to drag them around. I would've been one of those kids had I the opportunity.

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Giddy-up

May. 4, 2004, 02:29 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by JEP:
I bet we could see a few new rider/horse combos this year, as some of the big horses may not be loving this new format.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's what I was thinking...not so much how the rider placings will change, but what horses won't be making an appearance this year under these new guidelines.

"...but now the gloves are coming off and it's going to get ghetto." Robby Johnson

noname

May. 4, 2004, 02:36 PM

wasn't there a fairly recent eq competition where each rider was left to school his or her horse on their own with a judge scoring them on their warm-up as well as their rounds? am i just imagining that?

GatoGordo

May. 4, 2004, 03:20 PM

However, J. Turner, the aforementioned big drops are an integral part of those complexes. If I haven't practiced one strides or rollback turns, can I still do the Maclay? Does jumping single 3'6", or even 4', fences make someone ready for the big eq? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif Just as there are a lot more people who could jump 3'6" once in a while than could ride a quality medal round, there are a lot more people who could jump the first or last fences at Rolex than could actually make it around a 4* course.

BTW, ESG, Rolex is only **** -- 4-star is the highest. I don't want to know what a 5* would look like! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

Ghazzu

May. 4, 2004, 04:06 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by J. Turner:
I would disagree that some of the junior riders couldn't do the x-country fences on their eq horses. ..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't say none of them could; I did say the overwhwlming majority probably couldn't.

Unashamed member of the Arab clique...just settin' on the Group W bench.

xegeba

May. 4, 2004, 04:11 PM

Ghazzu, not only could not but would not... mess up the makeup.

millie

May. 4, 2004, 04:26 PM

It wasn't too long ago when we all read the Geoff Teall article in the COTH calling for change in the equitation divisions. I think this is a step in the right direction.

WWCountry

May. 4, 2004, 05:11 PM

noname--that's the Ronnie Mutch class held the last week of WEF. All those riders did just fine preparing and schooling their own horses and it was a tough course.

Let's not take anything away from the talented riders by insinuating that they can only win if their horse is perfectly prepared. He still needs a pilot!

ESG

May. 4, 2004, 05:20 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by noname:
wasn't there a fairly recent eq competition where each rider was left to school his or her horse on their own with a judge scoring them on their warm-up as well as their rounds? am i just imagining that?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, they scored the warmup at the Outdoor National Horse Show in Wellington last year (or could have been the year before). I saw it, and it was really interesting. That was the year Grappa won it (again - for the third straight year, I think?) but I don't remember with which rider.

Sorry state of affairs, eh, when the same horse wins three years in a row but no one can remember the rider? Doesn't sound much like horsemanship to me - more like a battle of the checkbooks. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif Perhaps this new rule will help with this problem? One can only hope...................... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

ESG

May. 4, 2004, 05:21 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by GatoGordo:
BTW, ESG, Rolex is only **** -- 4-star is the highest. I don't want to know what a 5* would look like! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're right - I was erroneously informed by someone else that it was a five star. I think the only five stars are Badminton and Burleigh. Punchestown is four star as is Blenheim.

Thanks for the correction. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

CBoylen

May. 4, 2004, 05:29 PM

No, four star is the highest. From the Rolex site:
"The Four Star International Three-Day Event in the traditional long format is the highest level of competition in the sport, reserved for World Championships and only four annual competitions each year. Badminton and Burghley in England, run since 1949 and 1961 respectively, were the only four star competitions until 1998 when Rolex Kentucky became only the third four star in the world. Adelaide in Australia held its first four star in November 1999. "

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Ghazzu

May. 4, 2004, 05:40 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by xegeba:
Ghazzu, not only could not but would not... mess up the makeup.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

S'pose you're right--especially the hair carefully draped over the ears! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

though I dunno--I hear some of 'em wear pantyhose on their heads--that sure sounds like potential eventers to me!

Unashamed member of the Arab clique...just settin' on the Group W bench.

xegeba

May. 4, 2004, 05:47 PM

And Ghazzu, I heard that most eventers do their own grooming.... that right there takes the vast majority out of the picture.

ESG

May. 4, 2004, 05:47 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by C.Boylen:
No, four star is the highest. From the Rolex site:
"The Four Star International Three-Day Event in the traditional long format is the highest level of competition in the sport, reserved for World Championships and only four annual competitions each year. Badminton and Burghley in England, run since 1949 and 1961 respectively, were the only four star competitions until 1998 when Rolex Kentucky became only the third four star in the world. Adelaide in Australia held its first four star in November 1999. "

http://community.webshots.com/user/anallie<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Should've known you'd have the right info, C. Thanks. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Ben and Me

May. 4, 2004, 07:18 PM

Y'all, no offense but I feel like we're making a whole lot of sweeping generalizations. For example, I'm sure that there are a ton of very successful event riders that started out in the hunters or equitation divisons.

In addition, most of those event riders are at least 10 years older (and 10 years more experienced) that any equitation rider.

Finally, I'm sure that there are plenty of Eq riders that do their own grooming, just as there are plenty of event riders that don't!

http://www.webspawner.com/users/watrlilly7/index.html

Albion

May. 4, 2004, 07:40 PM

Comparing eventing & H/J (or any equine-related sports, really) is like comparing apples & oranges - as has already been stated, and has been stated multiple times on multiple threads on this board.

The two sports require two completely different skill sets, and I'm not so sure that it's fair to compare the top equitation riders (who, theoretically, are *moving* towards competing in an Olympic discipline, or the upper echelons of the hunter world) to the top eventers - and I don't just mean the O'Connors, I mean anyone competing at the 4-star level. They are competing at the top of their game. The 3'6" equitation may be the pinnacle for many junior riders, but it's NOT the pinnacle of the sport as a whole.

While the equitation ideal may be the ideal in a perfect world, and the one that will get you safely, comfortably, and most harmoniously around the show ring, hacking out, etc., it's not the ideal in other disciplines, simply because they ask different questions of the horse & rider, and require different positions, etc. that deviate from that 'ideal', but are functional & safe nonetheless. Take riding racehorses. Even people who ride 'regular' horses learn to ride in a completely different way when riding at the track - more defensive, generally shorter sturrips, etc. Legs out in front, ride off your knee, not as much following of the hand, etc. etc. It's what is practical & safe for the rider & what the sport demands. It doesn't make it WRONG or mean that people who ride at the track are BAD riders compared to people that ride in the show-oriented disciplines (yes, I know there are plenty of yahoos at the track who can't ride - there are a lot of those in EVERY discipline). It just demands riding in a different way - much like eventing.

I believe you see more & more eventers these days competing at regular H/J shows to bone up on their showjumping skills, much like people are working much harder on their dressage these days. Having a XC machine alone will not win you a three day these days - it requires fantastic skill in all phases to truly come out on top.

'O lente, lente currite noctis equi' - Ovid

xegeba

May. 4, 2004, 07:50 PM

Ben.... I was making a broad and sweeping generalization in a feeble attempt to be (funny?) Let me just say that the EQ. girls(I have one) that hang around at the shows I'm getting gouged for are NOT doing their own grooming. Just ignore this post...

Vandy

May. 4, 2004, 07:58 PM

Heh here's a funny one - I was an eq rider and although I sometimes had a groom at the bigger shows, I usually worked as a groom myself while showing. And I braided my own as well as others to help pay for my horse expenses.

Anyway, the first time I qualified for the Medal finals at Harrisburg, my mom decided as a special treat she would pay a braider to do my horse for me so I could relax the morning of the finals. The braider apparently braided tighter than I ever did, and my horse rubbed all his braids out, so I had to rush to re-do them before I had to ride. Not to mention the fact that I was extra nervous because I was so used to braiding myself that I didn't know what to do with myself early that morning and just sat around being nervous when I should have been braiding http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif Believe me I wasn't the only one in that boat, plenty of eq riders take care of their own horses and do extra work on the side to pay their expenses.

The generalizations are just that - generalizations - and aren't true of everyone. Except that I will freely admit that as an eq rider I never could have made it safely around the Rolex CC...no way!

Illyria

May. 4, 2004, 08:11 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by noname:
wasn't there a fairly recent eq competition where each rider was left to school his or her horse on their own with a judge scoring them on their warm-up as well as their rounds? am i just imagining that?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's kind of what they have the competitors in the CET (canadian medal) do. For the regionals and the finals, the horses have to be on the show grounds by a certain time and after that time, only the rider is allowed on them (though that doesn't include who lunges and other ground work stuff). And when they switch horses in the test phase, their 2-minute max. warm-up (per horse), while not judged on it's own, is taken into account. It's quite a good riding test, but hard on the horses that make it into the top 4.

Vandy

May. 4, 2004, 08:24 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Illyria:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by noname:
wasn't there a fairly recent eq competition where each rider was left to school his or her horse on their own with a judge scoring them on their warm-up as well as their rounds? am i just imagining that?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's kind of what they have the competitors in the CET (canadian medal) do. For the regionals and the finals, the horses have to be on the show grounds by a certain time and after that time, only the rider is allowed on them (though that doesn't include who lunges and other ground work stuff). And when they switch horses in the test phase, their 2-minute max. warm-up (per horse), while not judged on it's own, is taken into account. It's quite a good riding test, but hard on the horses that make it into the top 4.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's been a while since I went to the USET finals, but that's how they were (are?) run too. Additionally, the riders have to walk the courses themselves, without their trainers.

khobstetter

May. 4, 2004, 09:06 PM

Sometimes things are not as they appear....

Several Juniors who have shown with me over the years had(have) grooming at the shows they attended....I did/do that for a reason..to even the playing field a bit.

These kids did, and DO, not have the money that most of the kids showing EQ do..........BUT to make sure they got to the ring "prepared" and physically/mentally ready to try their best to compete, the LAST thing I want(ed) them to do was spend the day mucking, brushing, bathing and so on...

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoo they spent(d) the other weekends working like crazy grooming for the littler kids at their shows. They spent(d) their after school hours and weekends working at the barn teaching little kids how to brush, groom, bathe, clean tack and so on, they teach summer camps...they do it for a little extra money to pay for the grooms at the big shows.

To cavalierly sweep the Junior EQ riders into a sterotype of lazy, spoiled kids is really not a fair statement.

In order to be able to make any statement like that it is important to know each of the Juniors you are lumping into that basket....they are, by and large, a dedicated hard working group of Juniors doing their best.

Just as it is not fair to label the Eventers..."Jack of all trades, Master of none"...it is not fair to lump the Junior EQ riders into a negative basket.

Let's just all enjoy our sport the way WE each choose to do it and not judge the other disciplines OR riders.

PS....I agree completely with any monitoring of the horses at those competitions...it will make for better riders and DEFINATELY happier horses!!! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

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http://www.go-sho.org

xegeba

May. 4, 2004, 09:18 PM

HOBBIE!!!! I was just joking!!!!!!!!!!!! EQ. Queens do do their own grooming! They don't care about their makeup and they could easily manuever the Rolex course and Win!!!! $&%*. &(*%^$$%#. Crap.

Linus

May. 4, 2004, 09:56 PM

A great idea. I do wonder what (if any) rules are in place forbidding excess schooling the night before; are there grounds for the monitors or whoever to prohibit it? I can see the new stabling requirements preventing egregiously bad horsekeeping (withholding food/water) and obvious abuses (head-tying), but where do we draw the line between schooling a horse, taking the edge off, and riding him into the ground? Who makes that call?

Illyria

May. 4, 2004, 11:53 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Vandy:
It's been a while since I went to the USET finals, but that's how they were (are?) run too. Additionally, the riders have to walk the courses themselves, without their trainers.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh right, forgot to mention that.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Linus:
A great idea. I do wonder what (if any) rules are in place forbidding excess schooling the night before; are there grounds for the monitors or whoever to prohibit it? I can see the new stabling requirements preventing egregiously bad horsekeeping (withholding food/water) and obvious abuses (head-tying), but where do we draw the line between schooling a horse, taking the edge off, and riding him into the ground? Who makes that call?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Wondering the same thing.

Darkwave

May. 5, 2004, 05:25 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Ben & Me:
For example, I'm sure that there are a ton of very successful event riders that started out in the hunters or equitation divisons.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know at least one: Michael Page won the Medal Finals one year.

Michael Plumb also did fairly well in them, I think.

LimoWrek

May. 5, 2004, 02:52 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Ghazzu:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by LimoWrek:

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fortunately, dear, I have the age and wisdom to recognize when I am overfaced.
Someday, perhaps you will, as well.

Unashamed member of the Arab clique...just settin' on the Group W bench.

[This message was edited by Chestnut Mare on May. 04, 2004 at 09:00 AM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You sure make a lot of statements that go against what every trainer who wins a bunch (be it eventer or h/j) says. Don't give me that crap that there are tons of trainers who are great who just don't like to show, people who are trainers want to pay the bills also. They want to make money. You don't make money selling little 5K horses to people and getting board money.

Why don't you become a top trainer, since you know all. You and your arabians. My god. Who do you think you are? I'm not trying to be rude, but you think everyone is out there polling their horses with spike rails and drugging their horses with tons of magnesium.

It just isn't the case.

My god. You just do not comprehend how horse shows work. Have you ever even been to one?

----
Crack is Whack!
Whitney doesn't do crack... Crack is cheap!

LimoWrek

May. 5, 2004, 02:54 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by xegeba:
And Ghazzu, I heard that most eventers do their own grooming.... that right there takes the vast majority out of the picture.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sheesh, you know better than to feed flames to the yahoos. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

----
Crack is Whack!
Whitney doesn't do crack... Crack is cheap!

GatoGordo

May. 5, 2004, 03:24 PM

Khobstetter, that system makes a lot of sense to me and sounds like it helps comraderie and a sense of equality -- the Big Eq kids have to interact with the short stirrup kids. As an Eventing Yahoo in Training, I like the idea of reciprocal grooming, too. On weekends I like to go to horse trials with friends as a groom and general extra pair of hands, which is fun for everyone. OTOH, when I'm showing, I mightily appreciate having Dad standing there with a water bottle (like the SS kids, I have had to train him to be a horse person http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif ). http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

One of these years, I expect the two of them [Bruce and Philip] to have their own division at Rolex, and contest it riding cattle. And they'd both still make the time. -- Heather
Eventing Yahoo In Training http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Heather Dobbs

May. 5, 2004, 03:39 PM

like, omg, this so totally sucks. maybe now i will have to do more than sit around, and like, do and redo my makeup all day long cuz it is SO NOT COOL when my lip gloss smears. god forbid i TOUCH a horse cuz then my nail polish would, like chip. riding is all about looking good, that's why the call it a "show". like, DUH. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif i don't wanna stay up all nite to ride bcuz then i will lose my beauty sleep(not that i need it but, like, still). omg u people are so mean, but i guess u are just in touch w/us eq divas.

"My dreams, they aren't as empty, as my conscience seems to be..."

Ghazzu

May. 5, 2004, 05:11 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by LimoWrek:

You sure make a lot of statements that go against what every trainer who wins a bunch (be it eventer or h/j) says. Don't give me that crap that there are tons of trainers who are great who just don't like to show, people who are trainers want to pay the bills also. They want to make money. You don't make money selling little 5K horses to people and getting board money.

Why don't you become a top trainer, since you know all. You and your arabians. My god. Who do you think you are? I'm not trying to be rude, but you think everyone is out there polling their horses with spike rails and drugging their horses with tons of magnesium.

It just isn't the case.

My god. You just do not comprehend how horse shows work. Have you ever even been to one?

!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I do believe you are confusing me with someone else. Either that, or you need to read more carefully.

Unashamed member of the Arab clique...just settin' on the Group W bench.

Sparky22

May. 5, 2004, 05:30 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Heather Dobbs:
like, omg, this so totally sucks. maybe now i will have to do more than sit around, and like, do and redo my makeup all day long cuz it is SO NOT COOL when my lip gloss smears. god forbid i TOUCH a horse cuz then my nail polish would, like chip. riding is all about looking good, that's why the call it a "show". like, DUH. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif i don't wanna stay up all nite to ride bcuz then i will lose my beauty sleep(not that i need it but, like, still). omg u people are so mean, but i guess u are just in touch w/us eq divas.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

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I would sooner fail than not be among the greatest
-- John Keats

mst

May. 5, 2004, 05:34 PM

This should be intresting. Even in FEI stabling there is no one checking horses water, feeding, and care. The only thing they are watching is schooling and making sure no one is walking around syringe in hand. I understand what is supposed to be prevented here, but its just not possible. Who is going to sit up all night long and watch these horses? A steward? Ihope they're getting paid more now a days. Is someone going to say, hey you, that horse needs 2 flakes of hay not 1? Unfortunatly, we have created this. Are horses supposed to go around the ring and not spook at the famous fish pond? Are they really supposed to be in a dark and stinky farm arena indoor? They did it in the old days but it was with acepromazine! No riding all night required. Its not just the equtation horses either. How about the hunters? Its exactly the same! Don't get me wrong, i think its wrong to ride these poor horses all night, its wrong to feed them nothing, its wrong to take their water out. Maybe the current trends of judging will have to change along with the format

Duffy

May. 5, 2004, 05:53 PM

Good one, Heather. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"B***h in training"

Heather Dobbs

May. 5, 2004, 06:16 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Fiction:
Haha.
Heather, I love you http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

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_This is not a true story_
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<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

and you know i love u http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

"My dreams, they aren't as empty, as my conscience seems to be..."

Ben and Me

May. 5, 2004, 07:43 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> I know at least one: Michael Page won the Medal Finals one year.

Michael Plumb also did fairly well in them, I think. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I actually went looking through the bigeq.com archives of past winners to see if I recognized any names--I must've missed these guys! Glad you could think of some though! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.webspawner.com/users/watrlilly7/index.html

DMK

May. 5, 2004, 08:00 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Heather Dobbs:
like, omg, this so totally sucks. maybe now i will have to do more than sit around, and like, do and redo my makeup all day long cuz it is SO NOT COOL when my lip gloss smears. god forbid i TOUCH a horse cuz then my nail polish would, like chip. riding is all about looking good, that's why the call it a "show". like, DUH. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif i don't wanna stay up all nite to ride bcuz then i will lose my beauty sleep(not that i need it but, like, still). omg u people are so mean, but i guess u are just in touch w/us eq divas.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heather, Pocket Trainer wishes to extend you a complimentary subscription. She told me she is pretty sure you are her next star. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Somewhere in Texas a village is missing its idiot. www.seeyageorge.com (http://www.seeyageorge.com)

Heather Dobbs

May. 6, 2004, 05:40 AM

why thank u http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"My dreams, they aren't as empty, as my conscience seems to be..."

Heineken

May. 6, 2004, 05:45 AM

Heather...be careful with all that typing...your fingers might get tired and you may chip a nail...http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
You Eq Princesses are like J-Lo with the massuese and manicurist that travel with you to the shows right? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

horseygurl182

May. 6, 2004, 06:02 AM

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif ::stands and applauds Heather:: That was great. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif That's why we love you! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

*Worthwhile*
*Believe In Me*
*Bolero*
*Look No Further*

Weatherford

May. 6, 2004, 10:30 AM

Good one, Heather - and was that YOUR pictures I saw in the COTH that arrived the other day (from early January)? If so, have you met my friend Niall Carey? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

By the way, I STILL think trainers have it wrong - FEED your horses (LOTS of BULK - like garlic chaff or plain chaff), add salt, then WATER them just before they go into the ring... It slows down the race horses, I would assume it would the show horses, too http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Coming soon! Be Fit! A six week program of routines for riding fitness

It's OUT! Linda Allen's 101 Exercises for Jumping co-authored by MOI!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

DMK

May. 6, 2004, 11:25 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Heather Dobbs:
why thank u http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you SURE you didn't mean "y thnk u" http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

butt u r welkum ne way

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

Somewhere in Texas a village is missing its idiot. www.seeyageorge.com (http://www.seeyageorge.com)

SGray

May. 6, 2004, 01:23 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by upperco:
Utter nonsense........How Absurd and dangerous.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please expand upon your position - why is it dangerous?

"That lowdown scoundrel deserves to be kicked to death by a jackass, and I'm just the one to do it," --Texas congressional candidate John F. Parker.

Proud to be one of the little people.

Tiramit

May. 6, 2004, 02:35 PM

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif Heather - good one!

As an aside, as an eq / medal rider, I was taken out by my coach to school over advanced cross country jumps. The idea was that it would teach me (and the other students) to ride with more daring and on a forward stride. I schooled drops, bounces, banks, water, big scary solid jumps, etc. etc., often on horses who had never come close to seeing such things before. I was pretty successful as a show rider (flat back and pretty leg, even won at the national finals), but I could sure hang on and growl through a tricky cross country course just like a "real eventer"! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

edited to add that I never understood why people wanted to school a horse all night before a class. Wouldn't it be horrible for someone to lose because her horse just didn't have them "umpf" to make it around a class and show off that hand gallop to the single oxer! Ridiculous.

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"Whether you think you can or think you can't - you are right." -Henry Ford