Does it EVER get better?

[Kairoshorses]

I've been battling my "jumping ahead" tendencies since learning to jump as a Hunter rider 12 years ago. I don't THROW myself anymore; now I'm much more subtle. But I STILL think I know when my horse is going to jump, and I "help" him. Again, less now, but enough, apparently so that I caused him to catch a foot in an oxer in warm up last November, which sent us both tumbling (my coach said I jumped ahead; I did NOT feel it--I felt perfectly in balance...sigh). After a month off, and another month of getting back in shape, we're planning to start the season off at N (we were doing T), and STAYING there until I get better.

Like I said, I didn't feel it when I did it. But I have felt what it feels like to use the horse's thrust to "fold".

I had some success doing a grid with no reins.

I had some success looking at someone off to the side instead of the fence when I jumped.

All of these were in a clinic setting. I don't have anyone to work with at home.

I was doing trot sets yesterday, and thought "I'll pop over a small fence at the end, and stay back".

I didn't. I *felt* myself lean forward. Not out-of-balance lean forward, but more than the horse thrusting me.

It seems like whenever I feel the horse influencing my movement, like in the clinics, I'm good--but then I go right back to muscle memory/jumping ever so slightly ahead when I get home.

Is this something that I'll just "get" someday? Or is it (as I fear) something I have to battle the rest of my life? HOW can I get better without someone yelling at me/helping me regularly? How can I (more) consistently trump my muscle memory?? I'm REALLY afraid of hurting my horse again.....I almost decided not to do this anymore, but I love it soooo much....

Here's a video of my stadium (I do this much more in SJ) from last year's Coconino. I can't stand watching myself, but maybe it'll help.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuKGvrlHml0

(we actually won Senior Training that weekend)

Here's the second week--I'm probably doing it more here, because I was MISERABLE with allergies at the end of the week. I had kleenex stuffed up my nose, in my pockets (you can see it flying out during SJ!)...and I'm sure I do this worse when I am tired/sick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF3ixLx3Zho

ANY and all advice is welcome. I'm feeling pretty dismal about things right now. :no:

[wildlifer]

It gets better. I was "ruined" by three years of riding hunters in college. When I started in eventing I had to "unlearn." Honestly, what did the most for me -- I flipped over my horse's head a couple times. Dang sure I sit back and wait now!

But have hope, it does get better. Eyes on the ground really really help, though. It doesn't have to be a trainer, maybe a friend who knows what they are looking at? Video is great too.

[deltawave]

I don't see jumping ahead at all. :confused: You do look like you use the reins for balance sometimes, and high hands. Like me! :(

Would vigilant practice with a neck strap help?

[mkevent]

What helps me the most is a ground pole 9' in front of the jump and one 9' after.

The ground poles help the horse find the right distance and because you can't "help" your horse, it forces you to be "chill" over fences.

Because you're not trying to figure out the take off spot, you can relax and concentrate on your form over fences.

It has worked wonders for me and also given me more confidence over fences.

[bambam]

I will tell you where you can find my former event mare- if you lean at all she will stop. I hit the dirt a lot but I learned not to lean :lol:;)
on a serious note- why can't you just set up those grids at home that worked for you in the clinic? You may not have someone yelling at you but it was the exercise that helped from the sounds of it and not the person correcting you (maybe add doing a small grid with your eyes closed- cannot anticipate if you are not looking). That would seem one of the easier ways to work on creating new muscle memory (which is a b*&^h to unlearn)
disclaimer- did not watch the video so no idea if you actually lean or not- I am just taking your word for it

[SlamDunk]

I don't think you really jump ahead, I would say that it is more you lose your position, which can result in tipping forward. I would work on your leg position, I noticed you stirrups were jammed all the way back to the heal of your boot. Try and keep it on the ball of your feet, with your leg underneath your hip ( I also noticed that it is a little jammed forward). A strong leg position is the base, and without it balance can be difficult. I think working on improving your leg position will help you stay with your horse instead of occasionally being in front or behind him. I think it will also help quiet your position down as a whole, and help you keep your upper body steadier, and thus less distracting to the horse. Which hopefully translates to more clear rounds ;)

Just a little advice from a show jumpers prospective

[englishcowgirl]

First off, this is fixable. I am no trainer but can speak to you from similar experiences. It seems like you are riding in a very deep "chair" style seat, this could make you feel a bit behind the motion. It might be why you feel like you are jumping ahead over fences. Is your saddle an all-purpose? I seriously cannot ride correctly in them due to my conformation and I would be having the same problem you are. This is just an idea, possibly try to borrow another saddle from a friend to see if a regular jump saddle will help. If you are comfortable with what you have there are some really basic things you can work on. Your leg is a bit floppy and it would be easier to keep still if it were more under your body. You also seem to balance on your hands, which says "forward" horse... possibly your "loud" leg is causing the horse to rush, which is causing you to brace? I did not see any jumping ahead, but a rider that needs to work on proper balance. The mixed messages that your body is creating may be creating many of the problems with your horse jumping. However, I see a patient horse and a rider that cares about him/her and does have many good basics. I would suggest trying a new trainer or two, the issues that you have are fixable and you could be seeing progress very quickly with the right help!!! Good luck!

[subk]

I too am not really seeing a chronic jumping ahead problem. For a former hunter rider you've done an amazing job getting rid of any hunter perch that lays the upper body over the crest! I would have never guessed a hunter past from looking at your video.

I agree with DW on the high hands and using the reins for balance some which would be best addressed by strengthening your lower leg a la Slam Dunk's post.

But over all, much more to like than dislike!

[gold2012]

I don't see a jumping ahead problem as much as a standing in the stirrup problem.

I actually think you ride quite nicely myself. I would like to see you have a tighter leg position, and it seems you use your hands a bit more then I would like. But overall, I think a majority would like to be as nice as you are in the saddle.

IF you really feel like you need to follow better, get rid of the stirrups. I really think that would help, then just set up some small grids, and go through with no stirrups if you are strong enough.

It is very hard to break any habit, especially long standing one's. Hope this helps. Nice horse, nice rider.

[Justa Bob]

Taking a different direction sometimes really helps me progress -- and to take a break from focusing on the "problems."

When you mix it up a bit - sometimes you get break throughs. One of my favorite ways of getting out of a rut - its to change horses for a ride or two (unless you already are jumping with a few different horses). Thankfully, I have a barn where several school horses are available. No everyone has this option.

When the horse I ride changes -- sometimes its the perfect way to just get back to focusing on basics. You will start to concentrate on the HORSE and how you need to adjust, instead of whatever needs fixing in YOU.

Ruts are the worst, but you are progressing and will get there!

[wildlifer]

I just actually watched the video and I don't see you jumping ahead that much. I agree with other posters - I see you needing to lower your hands (I have the same habit from a horse who would tend to lean and pull) and quiet both them and your leg a bit and some standing in the stirrups, but it was not a terrible round at all! Cut yourself some slack!

[yellowbritches]

Yeah...a less than genuine, saint of a horse will teach you...the hard way, but you'll learn! I had that horse. He helped me a lot (eventually) but I was picking myself up out of the dirt a lot, shed some tears of frustration, and really was miserable for awhile.

Rhythm, rhythm, rhythm. Get really focused on your rhythm. Count it (1,2,3,4,1,3,4), and REALLY figure out how to MAINTAIN it. I see what you are feeling (it IS subtle, but I see it), and it seems like when you lose the rhythm, he want to "help" him with your shoulders. So, learn to feel when your rhythm changes then FIX it! It helps. I know that feeling (I get it too). The rhythm just kind of dies and what was there suddenly isn't. You can work on the RHYTHM part of it with poles on the ground and small jumps...canter around in a rhythm and just keep it the same...don't do anything other than maintain the rhythm.As you get a little better, you can try a bigger rhythm, or a quieter rhythm, and play like that...but KEEP THE RHYTHM you set. The one GOOD thing from the hunter world to remember- relentless pursuit of RHYTHM!!!

Also, where do you look when you approach a fence? I think we're all taught initially to look past the fence so we don't look down. It seems like those of us who get a bunch of bad hunter training never learn anything else. If you're looking way up, look at your jump...look at the top rail. This makes a HUGE difference, because you actually SEE where you are coming to! I was reminded of this quite soundly today. I got over ambitious on another issue, and looked PAST my jump before we were set...and I TOTALLY blew the distance we were coming to. Lots of big pats for my tolerant horse. I brought my eye back to the top rail, and, lo and behold, never missed.

So, RHYTHM, and look at the top rail. And patience! :yes:

[reay6790]

I am a hunter and started eventing this year...I have had serious issues jumping ahead because I still do hunters. However my "Event" horse is a hunter, so he doesn't mind when i throw my body around.

I do think your leg looks pretty loose and strengthening that will really help your balance. I don't think you are jumping ahead. I think working on your leg, core, and hand will greatly help your balance and therefore help your position over fences.

You don't ride like a hunter, so if you are very against the very thought, good job haha!

[Jleegriffith]

I also don't see the jumping ahead problem but like yellowbritches said I think fixing your canter will allow you to relax. Your trying to override the rhythm instead of just relaxing into it. It's either a rushed flat canter or a bit dead and you end up dying at the base.

I would actually recommend more of a 3pt position since your horse seems very honest (LOVE him!) and it will allow you to sink down and keep your leg under you while keeping you from getting behind the motion. I like to think "land over my feet" to remind myself to keep my leg under me.

Your perhaps using your reins for balance because you are so focused on keeping him up in the canter meaning keeping his balance up? On the flat I would go back to just adjusting the canter by raising your shoulder so you don't have to use your hands. If your like me and you have super short arms you can't always have perfectly bent elbows so you have to compromise a bit. When your reins get long and your hands get high you tend to get behind the motion..yep ask me how I know that;) Being a bit more in a 3pt position allows you to keep your reins shorter and elbows in front of the body.

Really focus on keeping the canter uphill and bouncy instead of fast and flat or dead. In some of your turns it looks like you cut the corner and didn't quite establish the canter coming out of the turn so you ended up at the fence with a dead canter causing you to have a yucky jump.

Sometimes the more I get on myself about my position the worse it gets. When I just think about my canter then boom my position falls into place.

[ss3777]

Congrats on all of your achievements! You and your pony look great!! have you tried the look at the instructor trick? Great exercise for me when I was "getting in my own way". On the way to the jump, instead of looking at the jump, about 4-5 strides out look at you instructor, placed conveniently to the side of the jump. Viola...........your instincts are way better than you think, horse leaves from good spot every time and rider stays with horse :)

Just a thought..........you look way better than you think you do!

[goodmorning]

I don't see jumping ahead at all. :confused: You do look like you use the reins for balance sometimes, and high hands. Like me! :(

I must agree. I think you actually got left behind more than you jumped ahead. And the jumping ahead was a result of the lack of impulsion, and overall lack of rhythm, in the canter. Worry less about the distance and more about the canter. Always remember to push through those corners, it helps correct the canter and makes it easier to adjust the canter you have to the next fence.

[Bogie]

I also don't see you jumping ahead. You do balance off your reins, probably because your horse gets a bit strong. It looks like you are trying to slow him down by pulling back and that means that sometimes you get a bit close to the fence because you are losing impulsion. I think that means you feel a bit awkward over those fences.

I have a horse that can get quick and one of the hardest things for me to learn (still learning) has been to stay off his mouth and use my upper body and my legs to keep him quiet.

I always jump with a neck strap and when I'm schooling my trainer will have me scratch his neck as we come into a fence. What has helped me is trotting a lot of fences, riding him on as loose a rein as possible and if I need to balance myself, pulling on the neck strap.

Your lower leg does a bit loose but I think that if you find a way to ride into the fence more softly and balancing yourself, that will happen less.

I also had the chance to ride a horse that would stop if you so much as thought about getting ahead. I didn't have to hit the dirt all that many times before I learned to not get ahead.

[Bravestrom]

here is what happens when you jump ahead.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M1mxKOhhIw&feature=g-upl&context=G25a87b1AUAAAAAAASAA

If that doesn't cure you - I don't know what will - by the way I landed underneath where he was going - thank goodness he jumped sideways - but his back left landed straight on my calf snapping my tibia in half.

[Laurierace]

I agree with those who say you aren't jumping ahead but instead balancing off your horses mouth. A bigger sin in my book but can be fixed. You need to lose how to release over the fence while holding your own position. A lunge line lesson over a small cross rail with no reins would be where I would start. You have the basics, you just need to add in the strength.

[Kairoshorses]

Wow. Thanks, everyone--I really needed this (and OUCH, Bravestrom!!).

I actually watched my videos before I posted this, and was terribly depressed: I DO have floppy legs, my corners were two wheels, I overuse my upper body, I'm not "in harmony" with my horse, and I'm HUGE. How does that poor horse DO it?

It's so hard for me to see past the "holy sh$$, who's the cow on that poor horse?!". I REALLY, really want to do this sport and do it well. I do yoga and pilates every night, but sit on my rear most of the day working when I'm not riding or hauling kids around.

My horse is a saint--he's a slug at home (unless we're doing canter/gallop sets in the cotton fields), but he "keys up" at an event--so I have a TOTALLY different horse at an event than I do at home, one I only get to practice riding at the events, it seems.

I love the advice about rhythm (JW is my hero), and I DO count, but I feel like I'm counting what is there, rather than MAKING the rhythm. I think I'm afraid I'll make him have the wrong rhythm, or I'm not sure I can make the up rhythm without all of the rein-pulling and leg wagging.

I've never used a neck strap--my horse "taught" me to have contact, because I used to do the hands on the neck release with no contact, and he would STOP. When I contact, he would go. But I do think I overuse it now. So how do you use a neck strap? I know it's a stirrup leather around the neck...but that's the extent of my knowledge.

I do two point canter/gallop stuff at least 2 times a week.....but I guess it's not doing much for my legs. :( How do I learn to have them under me and still? AND to keep my body still? It's funny; I practice thinking I'm doing these things, but then see a picture or video, and I'm not.

Sorry to clog this up. I'm having one of those "I'm a crappy mom/prof/horse rider/researcher/" etc. times. I don't feel like I'm doing anything well, and I care about ALL of it, so it's very frustrating. But I'm also whining, and you all were great to indulge me. Thanks for all the great advice!

[Eventcrazy]

I had this problem and it takes a while to get it gone!!! I spent a good bit of time working on my two point or jumping position on the flat until it was second nature. Then had people video me when ever I could. Just kept telling myself that the fences were not high enough for me to even move out of that stable position. It took some time and some strenght building but it is pretty much gone now. Grids do help because that way you can really focus on your position.

To me it does look like it comes from you being a little loose in the tack. Spend some time on the flat in jumping position. Get that were its second nature and really solid.

It's funny most of my pics and video now I'm almost getting left behind a bit. But that's a defensive position for eventing!

Hope that helps! It will get better!!!

[Guyot]

I like to walk fences if a rider starts to get a bit anxious with their body. Slowing everything down really lets you feel each moment of the jump.

I use blue plastic barrels laying on their side with ground rails to keep the barrels from rolling. The horse must stay in an active walk with absolutely no trot steps. The trick is to try to stay with the saddle not the horse, if that makes sense.

What that does is keep the leg and seat against the saddle and to fold at the waist as the horse jumps. It slows the whole process down so you can feel if you get left or ahead or stand as the horse jumps. This really enhances the process of the horses jump which is what should be causing the closing of the angle of the riders hip. The horse jumps, not the rider... the rider just stays with the horse in balance.

Your body needs to get used to staying with the saddle and keep finding that better muscle memory. If you can stay balanced with your saddle you will be balanced over your horse no matter what type of jump. Best of luck!

[Bogie]

Here's how I use my neck strap:
http://equineink.com/2011/11/14/do-not-pull-back/

[Perfect Pony]

Yeah, I agree with those that say I don't see jumping ahead. And since you seem to think that hunter training is somehow bad, you will be happy to know you don't look like you have ever ridden hunters before.

[jen-s]

My two cents is after watching the videos and reading the other comments is that if your trainer watches you ride (even remotely like you ride in the videos) and then complains that you're jumping ahead too much, it's time for a new trainer. Period. End of story.

You've had some fabulous advice here from people who are much more advanced riders than I am, but I'd try a few rides with someone else and possibly even a different saddle. Could be that you're not being helped by a saddle that doesn't fit you just right. Been there, done that. :)

[luvmycabanaboy]

Becky -

Piece of advice number one: Stop thinking so hard!! Put your Ipod on and go gallop/jump around. 1. it will give you rhythym 2. it will give you an opportunity to not focus so hard on not messing up

Piece of advice number two: Someone, maybe JW, maybe Jim Graham, I don't remember, suggested using a neck strap and tying your stirrups to the girth and jumping grids. With both ends (your hands and your feet) stabilized, the rest of you has to figure out how to stay in the middle of your horse. I am sure the safety gurus will tell you this is a bad idea, but whatever. I tried it. I used pretty thin twine and tied the stirrups with a big bow, so it was strong enough to stabilize my leg, but would break in an emergency. It was a very strange sensation, but it helped my position a lot (I duck over my left shoulder).

- Rachel (by the way you and Paddy look much better in person than you think you do :) )

[Backstage]

I agree with many of the previous posts - you aren't really jumping ahead (well, you did a bit at one fence, but that isn't your main issue). Its the standing in the stirrups, its a sudden change that is disrupting your horse's jump and I can see how it might result in some issues. Personally, I think you need to learn solidify your leg and then sink into your heels, and to fold through your body. The leg thing is "easy" - do some no-stirrup work (including two-point) and maybe do some exercises at home.

I think the 'folding' part with be the trickiest part. I tend to think that some grids will help with the muscle memory - get into your jumping position and start to get a feel of how it should feel over the fences.

[joiedevie99]

I concur that you are not jumping ahead. What I see is a well balanced rider that is still working on developing independent hands and an independent leg and seat. You do need to learn to fold in the hip over our fences- but that can't happen until you can use all the pieces of your body independently.

Trot sets in jumping position are a good start. I'd also add tons of riding without stirrups at the posting trot and jumping position trot, and doing some squats off the horse to build muscle.

Then I'd do some lounge lessons to work on really separating the parts of your body. Can you bend your left leg forward and back without moving anything below your knee? What about your right? Can you do the macarena with your hands while posting, without changing anything in your body or leg? What about in jumping position?

From there, practice training your hips to fold. Trot around the ring in regular jumping position- then shove your hips towards the back of the saddle, bringing your belly button down to the pommel of the saddle, keeping a flat back, and reaching your hands up the neck. Maintian this for a whole long side- then transition from there to regular jumping position without sitting down or changing your leg at all.

Rinse and repeat- all at the canter.

Your jumping technique is solid- and your instincts are good- I doubt you will have any trouble at all over fences once you get it on the flat.

[KateKat]

coming over from jumper land...I agree with what everyone is saying. You definitely don't look like you're jumping ahead, it looks like you're standing up in your stirrups as opposed to closing/bending that hip angle, which causes your hands to stay up really high.

Part of it I think is the chair seat, which may or may not be anything that you're really doing. It might be your saddle, with stirrup bars that are too far forward for you. Just something to think about.

In terms of getting the feeling of bending at the hips instead of standing, I've had a lot of success with "practicing" my two point, off horse, in front of a mirror. Something about seeing myself, while making the associations with the feeling in my muscles, helped the establish connections between my body and brain faster ;). After all, two point is essentially a squat, right? Heels and hips need to be aligned, butt back, shoulders back and chest up. Do that a few times, see if it helps.

ETA: I know you say you do yoga and pilates, but part of what can cause a leg to be loose and swingy at the canter is tight hips. Do you work with an instructor one on one, or are you going at those two disciplines yourself?

[moonriverfarm]

You two look like a very well suited,happy pair. Practice and enjoy your horse - you look fine!

[analise]

Someone else mentioned longe lessons and I'd agree. I had a pretty swingy leg and a tendency to want to hold on too much with the reins and a couple of lessons where I wasn't allowed to use the reins (and we'd alternate riding with stirrups and without) really helped me improve my position.

[KateKat]

btw...I like your position better in your second video, where you say you're tired, than your first!

[CBudFrggy]

Go galloping in the woods in half seat until you can gallop for hours without feeling out of balance. I'm exaggerating a little bit with the "hours" but we all know when we feel out of balance. Right now, my career is really busy, but on weekends, we gallop all over the suburbs. I love how changing terrain in the parks, on the swales, makes my horse change his way of going and how he chooses his ground. This results in my balance and strength getting better and better. Frog and I are good for a 2-hour trail ride now with lots of trotting and galloping in half-seat. My lower leg is a lot stronger for it.

Also, I can't see the pix or video b/c I'm blocked at work, but do want to say you have come so much farther than I have since the days of the T3D 2010 pact, while I'm nowhere still....so keep it up. :D

[Bogie]

Ride on the flat with a finger or two slipped through a neck strap as well. It will help you keep your hands down and allow you to figure out how to control your horse using your body, rather than your hands.

The "chips" you get in your stadium rounds most likely occur because you are pulling back as you come into the fence. My trainer (I will not name her as I don't ride well enough for her to set me up as an example) works with me a lot on keeping my horse soft, steady and in front of my leg. That doesn't mean fast, but it also doesn't mean pulling back.

I agree that you're in a slight chair seat, which will affect your ride, but those saddles are often better for xc and we don't all have the money to have a separate saddle for stadium.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

I watch the videos and do see a rider who is slightly ahead...slightly.

What I mostly see is a rider just doing too much and trying a bit to hard at the fence. She isn't totally with her horse...that is what makes her slightly ahead (and falling slightly back again). She is anticipating when the horse is going to leave the ground.

I think your base of support or core could be a little stronger. Perhaps your stirrups a hole or two shorter.

You are "helping" your horse too much over the fence.

I loved a line by Jimmy Wofford at a clinic yesterday.....Jim "You are not going to lift him over the fence. How much does he weigh?"

Rider "About 1200 lbs"

Jim "How much do you weigh...never mind but you get the idea!"

Stop trying so hard. Work on your strength to stay with him better (and yes...that does get a lot better)....then just go with him. Not "help" him;) Sing a song, count....focus on the canter and don't worry so much about getting it right.

He's a cute horse and you two look like you are having fun (and you do not look bad or scary at all).

[PhoenixFarm]

First off, I LOVE your horse. Should he go missing, certainly don't come looking for him in my barn, nope . . . :winkgrin:

Second, I agree I don't see jumping ahead in the sense of your body breaking over before the horse leaves the ground, I see a much more generalized up and forward-ness issue. A standing perch if you will, from which you don't really deviate which is both good and bad. In a perfect world, you would have a little more following in the air, and better flow, but if you are going to make a mistake over fences better to be a bit behind them.

So how to fix? Before I say what I would do with you if you were my student, let me just say, this can be a very individual issue. I have found for myself as both a teach AND even more as a student myself, that what works for one person, does not work for another. We have different body types, different balance points, and our eyes (physical and metaphorical) work differently.

(Brief story segway: I rode for several years with a VBNT. He was wonderful in a lot of ways, and I learned many good things from him, BUT my jumping ahead tendencies got worse and worse and worse. This trainer advocated a two point/"C" type of position to the fences, and the more I did that, the worse I leaned up the neck.

After some time away, I was taking a clinic with another VBNT. After watching me flail around over a few jumps, he said "have you ever tried sitting to your jumps"? Which of course I had, prior to the previous BNT. I went back to the sitting, and bingo, eye came back, no more leaning and flailing, it was like the heavens opened and the angels sang, LOL.

I'm also one, and I've found MANY of my students are this way, that once I have my line on my fence, I need to lift my eye to the distance--either the next jump, or something like a tree or a fence post in the distance--to prevent a dropped eye, or anticipation of the distance. I know for some people, they need to look at the jump for THEIR eye to work, so I don't have a fixed notion of how it HAS to be done, but I can say after many years of this, some people just can't look at their jumps once they have found their line. If they do, they WILL drop their eye and jump ahead.)

So if you came to me for lessons, what would I have you do? While I agree with the "leg not steady, hands too high" comments, I see it a more of a psychological issue, than a strength one. You say your horse is a slug at home, and gets very up at the shows, and so my immediate thought is, when he puffs up, you become uncertain and take off your leg and start bracing trying to deal with this "new" horse. A very common occurance. Most riders are guilty of taking their leg off a hot horse, when in fact, those guys need that support and link with their as much, if not more, than the slugs.

You may have a perfectly fit and strong leg, but if you aren't using it, so what?:lol:

I see a rider who needs to sink down more in her leg and seat, really wrap herself around her horse, and move with her horse. I would have you do dressage over fences type exercises: start with poles, then cavalettis, then work up to jumps (over several weeks), but give yourself a course filled with dressage movements, and focus sitting and executing them. For instance, think right lead to vertical, land, sit, ten meter circle left, simple change through the trot, left lead to oxer, sit, ten meter circle left, halt, sitting trot, vertical from sitting trot, land, sit, trot, leg yield right, to 15 meter circle, canter, etc. etc. (note this isn't really a course example, just an idea). Focus on landing and getting your bum back in the saddle, and using your body, not your reins, to half halt your horse and riding correctly to execute the "extra" stuff.

Since you mentioned some clinic exercises that have worked for you, I'm going to guess you are a rider who needs to lift your eye from your fence, so practice that. Do a figure 8 over a small cavaletti or vertical, and pick a focal point outside the ring. Keep going on the figure 8, practicing riding a perfect turn, lining up your jump, and then finding that external focal point with your eye, time and time again.

Make sure on the flat that your horse does respond to your body for half halts, and make sure they are ALWAYS installed (IOW, they work at home, but go out the window when something changes, no bueno) so that you will know that if you land, and sit down and sit up in a turn, that your horse will lift his shoulders and shift his weight to match you, so you don't have to grab his face to rebalance.

Ride bareback (no seriously) on the flat and over cavaletti, to feel how your horse uses his body, and how you need to let your hips and back and elbows follow to allow him to use his body.

And, because I suspect his differentness at shows is a psycholigcal factor for you, I would recommend some schooling shows, over jumps so small they bore the snot out of you, and practice making the between the jumps perfect.

You really aren't the wreck you imagine, you have a lot of good things going for you, but you may have to experiment a little bit to find the "system" that works best for you.

Good luck, and it can and will get better.

[Kairoshorses]

Go galloping in the woods in half seat until you can gallop for hours without feeling out of balance. I'm exaggerating a little bit with the "hours" but we all know when we feel out of balance. Right now, my career is really busy, but on weekends, we gallop all over the suburbs. I love how changing terrain in the parks, on the swales, makes my horse change his way of going and how he chooses his ground. This results in my balance and strength getting better and better. Frog and I are good for a 2-hour trail ride now with lots of trotting and galloping in half-seat. My lower leg is a lot stronger for it.

Also, I can't see the pix or video b/c I'm blocked at work, but do want to say you have come so much farther than I have since the days of the T3D 2010 pact, while I'm nowhere still....so keep it up. :D

Ha. I live in West TX. We have flat. and flatter. Period.

I will start gong sans stirrups. I had my stirrups jacked up while I did galloping sets, but I think this is probably better. I do a lot of galloping in two point because it helps my knees! I have no ACL in either, and it strengthens the sides.

Thanks, everyone. What a great group of folks. I really appreciate all your input!

[asterix]

I agree with the general consensus here - I don't see a chronic jumping ahead issue, but more a loose base/loss of balance and rhythm kind of issue...and it is certainly possible that there is a saddle issue...

Phoenix has given you terrific and thoughtful advice.

I'd be temped to try a different trainer (not just a clinic, but some privates) to see if a different eye/way of teaching works -- if you are mainly hearing "you are jumping ahead" I am not sure that's addressing the real problem. Also, your horse is very capable ...I don't see any giant flinging around of your body going on, and I don't see how you could have caused him to crash based on what I see in the video from either of you. Obviously you did crash, but I am not entirely convinced by the explanation you were given.

And I think it might be very helpful to do some schooling jumper rounds at a low height so you can practice both being in a rhythm to your fences and keeping that rhythm with your "up" show grounds horse...

Good luck!

[trabern]

I just have to say this has been one heck of a productive and insightful post. OP thank you for posting the issue and for the video. I've learned from each of these posts.

OP: You and your horse look fabulous. No wonder you worry about him and care so much--he looks to be an expressive, happily willing partner with you. (And he's hawt.) I also thought that your round when you were sick looked a little more in sync with the horse--perhaps you were feeling to poorly to over-think and were more in-the-moment. Actually I think your instincts are very good! Maybe work that encourages you to trust them more, feel more, think less (hopefully not while feeling sick).

Can't wait to see more of you.

[CBudFrggy]

Ha. I live in West TX. We have flat. and flatter. Period.

I will start gong sans stirrups. I had my stirrups jacked up while I did galloping sets, but I think this is probably better. I do a lot of galloping in two point because it helps my knees! I have no ACL in either, and it strengthens the sides.

Thanks, everyone. What a great group of folks. I really appreciate all your input!

Ha! I live in South Florida, have no hills and ride "in town" (yes, in traffic also). But you get my drift. Get up in your stirrups and go all over the place--you'll get the strength and balance. It'll show up in a couple of weeks riding daily--more just riding weekends. :cool:

[Jleegriffith]

Some of my best jumping lessons have been from a local h/j trainer who has a million exercises to help with position and canter rhythm.

This thread has reminded me that I need to get up there more often because I don't jump nearly enough and have some of the same issues cropping up.

[RockstarPony]

From what I can see in the video, I think we have the exact same problem. It looks like you sort go into a small two-point & release your hands a split second before your horse is actually jumping. I do this a ton when I'm riding a horse who's really forward (even if it's just for that day!) because I feel like I'm holding back as I get around the course, but then trying to get out of their way over the jump. It might actually get worse if your horse isn't usually string, because you don't have as much of a sense of the new stride.

I'm not sure how to work on just your timing, if he's usually not so strong and you can't replicate what you feel at an event at home. I've found that sitting in a slight three-point, either about ten strides away or around the whole course, makes me worry a little less about getting left behind. I look down when I'm looking for strides, too, so concentrating on a tree or whatever on the opposite side of the arena really helps because I can't think about it as much.

[Cisco's_Mom]

I have the same problem, and am continually asking the same question, "will it EVER get better." I was recently in a lesson and the instructor suggested I close my eyes when approaching the fence. I was not to thrilled about doing it the first time, but found that once I was on my line and only a few strides away (trotting) I'd hold my position, close my eyes, and keep going it really helped. I could feel what was happening when my sight wasn't there to get in the way, and it was harder for me to anticipate the jump (so I didn't "help" as much). Not a total solution, but another tool in the toolbox. :)

[Kairoshorses]

Just wanted to give you an update. First, THANK YOU for your kind/helpful comments! I think I'm being a bit...uh, hormonal....about things lately. Sigh. But I DO want to get better! I went to a schooling H/J show in Las Cruces (and schooled a tiny bit of XC) this past weekend, and I though a LOT about being "with" my horse, keeping my leg on, etc.

My trainer put a lift under the back of my saddle, and actually LOWERED my stirrups a hole, and I concentrated on keeping my leg on/still. My horse is a bit pudgy now, and the lowered stirrups helped me to keep my leg on/more still. I'll play with it, but for now, this helped.

I tried to get everything out of my mind but the "feel" of what I was doing, both of the pace/rhythm and of my body. I also tried to keep my hands lower, and to be aware of the constant feel. We did two H rounds, and two J rounds, and we dropped nary a rail. I brought him in twice to a bad distance, and he altered his pace, but I stayed with him. I also tried to make my turns more fluid, but I know that didn't always work. The bigger arena helped, though. :)

I think I'm going to work on my feel, my "up" pace, my rhythm, my position, and being "in harmony" with him at N for a while. When I feel like we're a true team, we can go back to T, and maybe our goal of a T3D, but for now, I just want to feel good about "being with" my wonderful, wonderful horse.

Y'all are the best. Thanks.

[rhymeswithfizz]

I have the same problem, and am continually asking the same question, "will it EVER get better." I was recently in a lesson and the instructor suggested I close my eyes when approaching the fence. I was not to thrilled about doing it the first time, but found that once I was on my line and only a few strides away (trotting) I'd hold my position, close my eyes, and keep going it really helped. I could feel what was happening when my sight wasn't there to get in the way, and it was harder for me to anticipate the jump (so I didn't "help" as much). Not a total solution, but another tool in the toolbox. :)

Lol - funny, I had something similar happen, but not on purpose. I was dealing with the exact same problem and was coming through a bending line when the wind blew some grit into my contacts. Blind! I literally had to jump on feel with my eyes closed. Not by choice but there was no stopping. After I got through, my trainer shouted, "YES! That's what I want!". And poof, epiphany. I sheepishly had to admit it was a happy accident, but there you go. Now I try to think "ride through the jump" instead.

[kichiri_kachiri]

Haven't read the whole thing, but fwiw you might try lounge lessons - with your eyes closed. I haven't gotten the chance to do this yet, but I really want to. A rider I very much respect did this when she was learning to ride and it helped her tremendously. You really learn to feel the horse's motion, and can even do small jumps where the standards are something like buckets.

[mbm]

I am just joining this thread and watched your video. I am a dressage rider (x eventer!)

Your horse is lovely and you two are a good match. What sticks out at me is that you don’t have an independent seat yet. You appear to be balancing on the reins and loose balance periodically. It is difficult for a horse to maintain its balance etc when this is the case.

Luckily this is a completely "fixable" thing.

What I would recommend is lunge lessons.... if you need to go elsewhere and get them - do so . Also, try working with a good dressage trainer - or someone who really works on a riders seat.

What needs to happen is that you need to rely less on your reins/hands and more on your seat/legs for balance. you need to open your seat, put more weight on your stirrups, let go of the reins, etc.

I think that within a few months you would see a huge improvement and you would be able to progress quite a lot!

I am just now getting back into jumping after years of straight dressage ... so i completely sympathize with you!

lovely horse!