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View Full Version : Sales Ads... Why So Misleading??



FLeventer
Jan. 25, 2012, 08:49 PM
Ok, so this is sort of a rant as well as a question. Do you find that sales ads, when looking for horses can be so frustrating?? Training level eventer! But only has pics and videos of BN level courses.

Or this, "He jumps 5 feet courses!" But the picture shows a 2'6 oxer.

What is the deal? Do they do that or are the owners blowing smoke up my bootie? When I message the owners for more pictures or his USEA name so I can look up his record I either hear nothing or I hear a bunch of babble about what he has "done" but they have no pictures of it. When I ask for videos, they send me more of the horse doing 2'6. Seriously? Do not advertise a 3'6 jumper with only videos and pictures of him doing a foot lower.

I hate to drive all the way to North Carolina to see this wonderful horse and he turns out to be a bust.

Does this happen to everyone?

Duckz
Jan. 25, 2012, 09:10 PM
I think some people are seeing their horse through rose colored glasses. They don't even see it as exaggerating or lying. "Oh, Dobbin jumped 3'6" once a year ago, he's absolutely a 3'6" horse." That sort of thing. Frustrating for buyers, for sure. I worked with a horse for a couple years. He was ok, could get around a 3' course with a tactful rider, but his personality sucked, he wasn't the soundest animal, and he had really iffy conformation. He was fairly downhill with mediocre movement. No joke, the owner advertised him as ready to take a junior to WIHS as a 3'6" hunter. I don't think she was intentionally lying to buyers, it's just what she wanted to believe.

Sorry you're having bad experiences.

gold2012
Jan. 25, 2012, 09:19 PM
I dunno, it drives me nuts too. but from the opposite end of the spectrum. I tell the truth, both good and bad....and they always take the bad to be way worse then it is, I don't make it better, or worse. Truth is the truth, and well, a horse is what he is.

And the good they diminish. I have had two people look at a horse I have for sale, and both times, been told "he is too rideable". I didn't know a horse could be TOO rideable?

I love the ads that say...."Giant horse, 17 hh..." and you go out and MAYBE he is 15.3. If I only had a dollar for all the "black" horses that are seal bays...you get the idea.

I have to agree, it is probably the rose colored glasses, the hill they are standing on, with said owner downhill, and the dark stall they are kept in!

LOL.

FLeventer
Jan. 25, 2012, 09:38 PM
Thanks guys! I just have not been looking for a horse in a while. The last horses that I leased/bought I had known for a while and I knew what they have done. Right now I'm looking for something with more experience then what I have had before. I want to go training again and I need a horse that can take me there without the many years that it takes to bring along an OTTB.

Do not get me wrong, I love my OTTBs and the young guns, but I want a horse that has been there and done that. Though I have to say that the track trainers that I know are more honest on the height, color, and history then most horse owners that I have dealt with. I just hoping that I will find the right guy.

deltawave
Jan. 25, 2012, 10:14 PM
Drives me up a flippin' WALL. To the point where I will summarily refuse to even look any further at a horse that is advertised like this.

A horse that once jumped a coop that was shared on the T and P courses at a local unrecognized HT is NOT "schooling Prellim"! :mad: :rolleyes:

Not every horse is a "10 mover" and showing it going around reaalllly slowly with its nose cranked into its chest is not going to convince me otherwise!

And the word "potential" . . . sorry, that means NOTHING to me or to anyone else. :lol:

And advertisers may think they're being honest, but saying things like "easy keeper" when the horse looks ratty and is a bag of bones in its photos is sort of revealing of either the horse's actual metabolism or the horse-husbandry skills of the seller.

And it's going to take more than a claim that "Leslie Law LOVED him" to make me look twice. Leslie Law patting the horse on the neck absently and saying "good boy" when the horse finally jumped the oxer after 15 tries does not really mean he LOVED the horse. :lol:

BaroquePony
Jan. 25, 2012, 10:19 PM
That is why I have become resigned to buying the lamest horse I can find. That way I am not disappointed in what I eventually get :lol:.

retreadeventer
Jan. 25, 2012, 10:24 PM
Yes...dishonesty, or untruthfulness, or fabrication, or simply not knowing how to tell the height of a horse....all drive me fruitbatty...and you know, it's probably close to fraud to advertise stuff about a horse that cannot be proven and is basically just rhetoric. Especially about jumping. When you advertise a horse that can jump 3-6, they need to be able to jump a 3-6 course today, tomorrow, and yesterday, not in someone's imagination.

I think the only thing you can do is ask questions carefully and listen very carefully to the answers. Ask direct questions - does he tie? Crosstie? Stand? And the answer is a hesitant yes -- then I ask why they hesitated -- well, he's pulled back and broken his halter before. Ok, how many times? Well, three ... and you can't tie him in a trailer...why? ....he falls down .... This horse was advertised as beginner safe to handle. I do not consider a horse beginner safe if they pull back and fall over when tied, do you?

Bangs-head-on-desk.

Duckz
Jan. 25, 2012, 10:36 PM
Thanks guys! I just have not been looking for a horse in a while. The last horses that I leased/bought I had known for a while and I knew what they have done. Right now I'm looking for something with more experience then what I have had before. I want to go training again and I need a horse that can take me there without the many years that it takes to bring along an OTTB.



Even if all they've done with a horse is unrecognized competitions, the owner should be able to direct you to results posted online (who DOESN'T post results online these days?). Video is practically mandatory. Seriously, it's 2012. There's no way I would travel to see a horse without these things unless I were in the market for a dirt cheap green bean/ diamond in the rough/ OTTB type.

FLeventer
Jan. 25, 2012, 11:00 PM
Even if all they've done with a horse is unrecognized competitions, the owner should be able to direct you to results posted online (who DOESN'T post results online these days?). Video is practically mandatory. Seriously, it's 2012. There's no way I would travel to see a horse without these things unless I were in the market for a dirt cheap green bean/ diamond in the rough/ OTTB type.


You see, if they did an unrecognized training and placed relatively well then I would be interested in seeing more. I agree that video is mandatory in all situations. How hard is it to pay someone to grab a video if you are planning on selling the horse?

Also if you said the horse went training then provide me records, the name of the event, or something!!! I mean seriously, be honest. Do not waste my time or yours.

FLeventer
Jan. 25, 2012, 11:02 PM
Drives me up a flippin' WALL. To the point where I will summarily refuse to even look any further at a horse that is advertised like this.

A horse that once jumped a coop that was shared on the T and P courses at a local unrecognized HT is NOT "schooling Prellim"! :mad: :rolleyes:

Not every horse is a "10 mover" and showing it going around reaalllly slowly with its nose cranked into its chest is not going to convince me otherwise!

And the word "potential" . . . sorry, that means NOTHING to me or to anyone else. :lol:

And advertisers may think they're being honest, but saying things like "easy keeper" when the horse looks ratty and is a bag of bones in its photos is sort of revealing of either the horse's actual metabolism or the horse-husbandry skills of the seller.

And it's going to take more than a claim that "Leslie Law LOVED him" to make me look twice. Leslie Law patting the horse on the neck absently and saying "good boy" when the horse finally jumped the oxer after 15 tries does not really mean he LOVED the horse. :lol:

So agreed on every point made in this post. The stuff that I have had to deal with just makes me want to give up.

Hevonen
Jan. 25, 2012, 11:34 PM
Agreed, with all of it. I've only dipped my little toe in all of this, and already I feel skeptical about everything anyone says. I need pictures, videos, results, SOMETHING, or I'm not interested.

It comes from the other side too, like gold2012 said. I just sold my horse, and I had plenty of people asking me if he could go Training or Preliminary when I clearly stated that he didn't want to do the bigger XC. Then I got the ones looking for their beginner kids when I clearly stated that he was spooky andand not for beginners, and in fact needed a relatively confident rider.

Um... I spent a lot of time writing my add, the least people could do is read it all the way through.

I have, however, met honest owners out there! I met a lovely lady with a fabulous Training level gelding and she was very honest about everything he did (or didn't) do. Of course, she also had video/results/pictures... ;)

slp2
Jan. 26, 2012, 12:27 AM
I think it's because people want to lure a buyer to come look at the horse. And they want to get as much money as they can for the horse. The old saying: "A horse is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it" is true. So, they "embellish" the ad a bit in hopes that someone will think the horse is worth it.

I think the sellers are hoping that some buyer who just fell off the turnip truck, will buy the horse without checking their USEA record, asking for videos, test riding it, or doing a vet check.

Toadie's mom
Jan. 26, 2012, 12:52 AM
I've been on both sides, and buyers are just as bad:winkgrin: I advertised an UNBROKEN 3 yr old with very good gaits, so I emphasized her dressage potential. Had 2 ph. conversations with a woman who "only did dressage". When she came to see her, she immediately ask me to longe her over some fences. When I went over our ph. conversation, she said, "well I might want to jump someday." I told her no. Had she told me this over the phone I would have been prepared, but as I'd never even attempted this with the horse before that wasn't a fair request.

FLeventer
Jan. 26, 2012, 01:18 AM
I have dealt with some bad buyers as well. I had a Novice packer that I clearly stated would not do training no matter what. Horse just started stopping on XC when the jumps went up. I listed all this in the sales ad. This horse would jump a BN and N course with a monkey on his back and had the results to prove it. I had numerous emails and calls asked if he had the potential for training. I started saying, "Well if he could do training then I would not have listed him as a Novice packer but instead a Training packer and I would not have stated in the ad that he would not do a full Training XC course if his life depended on it."

He eventually sold to an adult ammy that never wanted to go beyond Novice. They had their happy years together that are still going on till today.

I just wish horse shopping was much easier.

Beam Me Up
Jan. 26, 2012, 01:30 AM
Agree it goes both ways. And it is the wishful thinking of both parties that keeps it going. I know that when I have gone to see horses whose show names/records couldn't be located, or whose owners' video cameras are broken this week, or whatever, that I am taking a chance, probably a dumb one. Just as when I made like 5 custom videos for an out-of-state buyer of various requested scenes, then spent 4 days showing him to her, only to be told I had misrepresented him.

In all those situations I knew I was probably being dumb, but couldn't kill that last shred of optimism and thus wasted my own time.

Sometimes the sellers are being intentionally deceitful, but in other cases they are just repeating what they were told.

It's hard to do in the face of a possibly amazing long-shot deal, but if you don't want to waste your time you have to hold that line on videos/records etc. Easier said than done tho.

Blugal
Jan. 26, 2012, 02:42 AM
+1 for going both ways.

I had a hard time selling a going Prelim schoolmaster for a decent price. I had a professional horse seller look at my ad - she said, "You are being too honest. Don't provide them with actual results or any explanations as to why you had time faults (hard ground) or extra rails (show jumping on a side-hill). Just send some photos, edit your video to only show the best parts, and make them come look at him, they'll love him when they get here."

The worst part... she was right.

Heinz 57
Jan. 26, 2012, 03:14 AM
Why so misleading? Because there are plenty of idiots out there that will believe every word and make no attempt to verify the info.

Those are the same folks that are then surprised when their "schooling prelim - upper level prospect" dumps them into the baby beginner novice ditch at the first derby. :lol:

bizbachfan
Jan. 26, 2012, 08:46 AM
A couple of years ago my friend was looking for a horse and I was helping her in her search. One horse we went to see was such a bag of bones we nearly bought it to save it. Sadly most of the other horses were well fed and looked good, but apparently this one was not "worth" enough. The videos and pictures must have been old because online the horse looked great. (7 hour round trip wasted-the horse was so lethargic we really couldn't even evaluate it)

My friend found another horse she really liked but the seller conveniently forgot the horse's show name even though I asked her several times. She also forgot what the injury was that caused a huge scar on the horse's leg even though she was the horse's original owner. In the end my friend passed even though she really liked the horse. The lack of the show record and the scar were not the reason it was just the "used car salesman" attitude she could not get past.

scubed
Jan. 26, 2012, 10:17 AM
I have done a reasonable amount of buying (and less selling). I have bought sight unseen, but I agree that about 1 in 10 horses is at all similar in person to how it is represented in its ads. I have gotten less and less patient about dealing with the average seller and have bought the past 7 from professionals.

Of course, my ottb that I moved up to prelim on and is the total packer over fences, but is really not fond of dressage was advertised as a dressage horse because he would not jump :winkgrin:;)

NoDQhere
Jan. 26, 2012, 10:47 AM
Decent video is a must and not that hard to do. A seller should not have a problem answering questions. If a seller can't answer questions to your satisfaction, walk away.

We have been on both sides and for the most part have been fortunate in buying and selling but there have been a few times :eek:. We regularly hear about a potential horse "english" horse because the horse won't go slow enough for "western" and horse is at least 17 hands. Usually horse is a 15 hand runaway.

Be honest about yourself as well. If you are a Novice rider, please tell us. If you have fear issues, please tell us. Honesty is ALWAYS the best policy and will pay off in the long run.

bigbaytb
Jan. 26, 2012, 11:10 AM
Then there is the other side of the aisle when one is trying to sell a horse. These 2 are the only 2 that I have ever sold, all in the same year:

one was a tbxpaint that was a proven low hunter/jumper before me and i had succesfully evented through novice, which maxed him out, I also fox hunted him a couple times. big sweet horse that had automatic changes and would pack AA and kids around a 3ft course. never stopped on xc either. I would get so frustrated when people would ride the snot out of the horse when they came to look at him; he never did a misstep and the riders loved him, then they would low-ball offer me when the asking price was a fair price! (aka offer me the price of green/off the track horse). Or the trainer (if a h/j would come out) would nix it like "i don't like his color" when the parents and kids were in love with the horse because he was so safe. It took me 12 months to sell him, and that was to a person who the trainer saw the video and said to the buyer "if you can stay on during a lesson and the xrays are good, pay the price and take him home". and they did.

my other horse was a DWB that was the biggest Asshalt you ever met! Of course, I bought him really cheap as a trainer/friend contacted me and thought I could deal with it. Beautiful horse, and he took alot of work. I had him a year, most of which was getting him to stop rearing and bucking and dragging people around. (yes, had all the chiro, etc but he had learned to get out of work by being a jerk cuz he was so huge). I had to ride him everyday to keep him sane, which was impossible for me and I couldn't afford to keep a trainer on him every day. SO I sold him. Advertised him and said that he was complete jerk, said not for a jr/AA rider. said that they woud have to sign a contract that said I sold him knowing he was a jerk... He sold in 4 days for what I purchased him for...

so go figure...I hate the business of buying/selling.

Jeannette, formerly ponygyrl
Jan. 26, 2012, 12:28 PM
Seems like there are tons of sellers who are trying hard but fundamentally ignorant. They really believe the reason Dobbin goes so fast to the jumps is because he LOVES jumping, and there's not really a difference between clearing a 3 foot jump with 6 inches to spare and being a 3'6 jumper, is there?

And there are the deliberate errors, for sure! "Horse trading" has a long history of wee details sellers forgot to mention until after the trade was done...

Hevonen
Jan. 26, 2012, 12:35 PM
They really believe the reason Dobbin goes so fast to the jumps is because he LOVES jumping...

*snort*

Or they think that their horse is bored and wants to make things more exciting, and that's why they jump six feet over a flower box on the ground. He LOVES to jump big!

Nervous? Worried? Nooooo, just trying to spice things up! :D

FLeventer
Jan. 26, 2012, 12:44 PM
*snort*

Or they think that their horse is bored and wants to make things more exciting, and that's why they jump six feet over a flower box on the ground. He LOVES to jump big!

Nervous? Worried? Nooooo, just trying to spice things up! :D

This reminds me of when I was horse shopping with a friend. She and I went to a farm that was pretty close because they had some nice ads. Well when we got there, boy were we surprised.

The horse that we wanted to look at, I swear that the picture must have been taken five years earlier. That horse looked nothing like his former glory.

Not only was he lame and they just kept pushing him, even though we said we were leaving. Well the owner said, "wait he loves to jump! He jumps out of his pasture all the time!"

The pasture fence was about 4ft tall and just wire and he was pastured with fourteen other horses. Well looking at the horses cuts and bites all over him I'm guessing the only reason that he "liked" to jump was because he was being chased out of the pasture.

Mtn trails
Jan. 26, 2012, 03:02 PM
Sounds really familiar too. A few years ago I drove two hours to take a look at a horse with a friend who was in the market. The dreamhorse ad showed this guy easily clearing a training level jump and trotting around in a very nice frame so we were really hopeful. Get there, the horse is very dirty, thin, dead lame, and just looked poor all the way around. It would take way more than the purchase price to get this horse back to some semblance of his former self. We left when she asked if we wanted to ride him and see him jump. Sheesh!

JWB
Jan. 26, 2012, 05:47 PM
Ugh - I've been "sort of looking" because my horse is getting a year off, but due to a new drain field and a new roof, (not to mention an MRI and hospital stay for the horse that I'll eventually get reimbursed for) I don't have much budget at all.

I'm banging my head against a wall, because I've developed a taste for filet mignon but my wallet says hot dogs. I've learned how to mostly decode these diamond in the rough ads:

Ready to start your way =unhandled
Green broke = has been backed once or twice
Dressage prospect = won’t jump
Flashy mover = psycho
Not for a beginner = bucks, bolts, or is generally afraid of his own shadow
Spirited = Ride at your own risk
Warmblood x = ½ QH, ¼ Percheron, 1/8 TB, 1/8 KWPN
Kid safe = old
Husband safe = old and big
Needs miles = nervous at shows
Jogs sound = please don't flex or x-ray him
Great trail horse = lame
15.2 = 14.3
17h = 16.1
Beautiful = lots of chrome and a mane that has never been pulled
Fantastic jumper = launches over cross rails
Ready for training level = has been over 3’3 once

did I forget anything?

trabern
Jan. 26, 2012, 08:14 PM
Ready to start your way =unhandled
Green broke = has been backed once or twice
Dressage prospect = won’t jump
Flashy mover = psycho
Not for a beginner = bucks, bolts, or is generally afraid of his own shadow
Spirited = Ride at your own risk
Warmblood x = ½ QH, ¼ Percheron, 1/8 TB, 1/8 KWPN
Kid safe = old
Husband safe = old and big
Needs miles = nervous at shows
Jogs sound = please don't flex or x-ray him
Great trail horse = lame
15.2 = 14.3
17h = 16.1
Beautiful = lots of chrome and a mane that has never been pulled
Fantastic jumper = launches over cross rails
Ready for training level = has been over 3’3 once

did I forget anything?


HILARIOUS!

Prospect = Maybe you can get something out of him we can't
needs miles = Too green to know what he is
easy keeper = fat/tends to founder/IR/cushings
will be a great kids horse with a little work = we are terrified of him
list of famous relatives on papers = he doesn't do much right now

yellowbritches
Jan. 26, 2012, 09:40 PM
Hey now, Vernon was a "great kids' horse", and he really was...but I don't think I ever used that exact phrase in his advertising!!!

I feel ya on both sides. I've shopped a lot, usually for others but now a little for me, and I am often dumbstruck at what we find in person vs what the ad said. I got on quite a few horses and ponies FOR KIDS that were either 3 legged ("Oh, he normally warms out of that...") or bat s**t crazy ("he's such a game little horse." Noooo....he's going to terrify the kids he's meant for). I can't tell you how many times I sat on something, and just never bothered putting the kid on...if we even made it to the point that I sat on it!!!

I also love how sellers don't listen!!! I couldn't believe what was brought out to show to ME when we were VERY clear in all our correspondence that we were looking for a young horse that could do a one star, AT LEAST. Draft crosses (I know, I know, draft crosses can do one stars...but not these kids), half crippled OTTBs, more bat s**t crazy horses...it was ridiculous. Same goes for shopping for amateurs. "We need a packer that has preferably done at least a one star...." "Well, we have this horse that's young, has been ridden by nothing but pros and is ready to go prelim..." What part of PACKER and done AT LEAST A ONE STAR is not clear to you?!?!? :mad:

On the other hand, buyers don't read for content, listen, or choose to ignore the truth regarding a horse. I wanted to TEAR MY FREAKING HAIR OUT while marketing dear Vernon. We tried, in our advertising, to be VERY clear as to why he was for sale and why he was priced how he was- he did not want to do competitive UL dressage. We said it as nicely as we could in ads (so as not to completely scare folks away), and when we chatted about him, we were straight up honest (he acts like a ninny and moves like a sewing machine if you try to ride him in a competitive frame...he's golden if he's allowed to go in a training level frame and will do anything). I can't tell you how many people called hoping he'd be their next YR superstar (umm...nooooo), or thought they could FIX his dressage (MY dressage coach is the best!!! Yeah, well, good luck, because he's stumped some of the best on our end, too). I was VERY clear that this horse would PACK anyone around and would teach someone how to run and jump...but they just couldn't care about blowing away the dressage at the same time (I can't tell you how many times I said "If he was good in the dressage, I wouldn't be selling him or his price tag would be at least DOUBLE what it is!!!"). Thankfully, we DID find him a good home for someone who wanted to learn how to run and jump, but cared less about the dressage...but it was frustrating getting there!

I DO love selling horses (just not MY horse) and shopping for them (just not for ME!!). But it is a test of patience, that's for sure!!!

tuppysmom
Jan. 27, 2012, 12:17 AM
Well if I was going to advertise this horse honestly the ad would say:

17 yr old OTTB gelding, couldn't outrun a pony horse, light framed 15h, has chronic loose poop and makes a huge mess wherever he goes, bad for farrier, (may need lip chain and twitch to get the job done, depends...), and vet, hard to clip. Has been known to bite and kick, (me!). Hard keeper/picky eater. Hates to be stalled and will try to tear your barn down: has demolished a stall at home and climbed over a stall gate when away. Needs major meds to pull his mane. Bottom of the pecking order in pasture situations. Has a bad hock and a chip in an ankle, some rotation of his LF coffin due to radial nerve paralysis in RF. Stands nicely at the mounting block, but may not let you get off at the end of the ride. Better be "tied on" to do your trot sets. Tense in dressage and pulls like a freight train on XC, may or may not be ridable in show jumping, (depends on if sj is before or after xc). Has had 40 total jumping penalties on xc in his career. Has competed at 5 CCI 4 star events. Will literally jump a truck, Hauls like a champ and loves to fly in planes. Sound, fit and ready to go!

Or this one:

15 yr old OTTB, ran 44 times and won 4. 16.2, plain brown, g. Has reoccurring sinus infections that require vet care, and antibiotics. Has shivers, but is easy to shoe. Has flat feet that look like platters when he is due for the farrier. Needs pads on rocky ground. Needs regular body work to feel his best. Loves to be clipped and have his mane pulled. Would happily stay confined to a stall for weeks on end and remain calm and quiet for his hand walking. The same horse, day in and day out. The Big Dog in the pasture, or will make the other horses double time it to get out of his way. Hard on other horses blankets, etc. Can and will jump a big fence and has completed 2 HTs at advanced. Never pulls on XC. May have a rail or two in sj, depends on if the rider can wake him up and keep him interested in the job at hand, ie: he is casual. Easy to do your trot sets on, you can email or read FB while listening to your favorite music on the ipod. Unflustered enought that a 5 yr old child can ride him in cool out and back to the barn after a major jump school. Used in lessons for beginners between HTs at advanced level. Speckled XC record, below intermediate, perfect above. Mostly sound and totally fit.

Would anyone come to no man's land to try either of these honestly advertised horses?

Hevonen
Jan. 27, 2012, 12:55 AM
And this is how I would rewrite those to be honest without completely scaring off the buyers:

17yr old 15h OTTB gelding who was too slow for the track. Has competed in 5 CCI**** events. Not for beginners and can require a knowledgable handler. Does best out 24/7, can be turned out with others. Decent dressage and quick in stadium. Bold on XC, and has only ever had 40 XC penalties in his entire career. Will literally jump a truck! Hauls like a champ and loves to fly in planes. Some maintenance issues, but is sound, fit, and ready to compete!

15yr old 16.2h OTTB gelding, ran 44 times and retired sound. Has completed two Advanced HTs without XC jump penalties! Never pulls, and is easily rateable around a stadium course. Quiet - unflustered enough that a five year old can cool him out after a major jump school. Good for farrier, vet, and loves to be clipped! Can be turned out with other horses. In the stall or out on pasture, he is the same horse day in and day out. Has some maintenance issues. Does have shivers, but is easy to shoe. Fit and ready to go!

Yeah, there are some red flags there, but at least you might get a few calls! ;D None of that is a lie, its's just not the whole truth. I wouldn't expect someone to write a horror story and expect their horse to sell. But you don't have to be negative to be honest. Just my opinion!

FLeventer
Jan. 27, 2012, 02:10 AM
Tuppy, if you were closer id be begging to try your ponies out.

deltawave
Jan. 27, 2012, 09:09 AM
I think here on COTH we have a tendency to be more honest about our horses, so if I were a sleuthy buyer I would be coming here to snoop, for sure. :lol:

Probably why I have only ever actually SOLD one horse, ever. :p

retreadeventer
Jan. 27, 2012, 09:37 AM
I found one of my old gems! The horse classified translation guide.
This is related to this thread:
(just a few of them, the link is here, http://www.equisearch.com/community/lifestyle/buyerbeware090600a/)

Bold ~ runaway

Athletic ~ runaway

Needs intermediate Rider ~ runaway

Needs Experienced Rider ~ "dead" runaway

Dead Quiet ~ just dead

FLeventer
Jan. 27, 2012, 10:39 AM
I found one of my old gems! The horse classified translation guide.
This is related to this thread:
(just a few of them, the link is here, http://www.equisearch.com/community/lifestyle/buyerbeware090600a/)

Bold ~ runaway

Athletic ~ runaway

Needs intermediate Rider ~ runaway

Needs Experienced Rider ~ "dead" runaway

Dead Quiet ~ just dead


I just lol'd about twenty minutes. There were so many I loved, but this one just rings a bell with the ads by back yard breeders. My phone will not copy and paste so please excuse that a few words may be messed up...

"Will mature to around 16hh: Father is 13h and mother is 14.2 and no horse in the past 15 generations has been above 15hh but I know this horse will defy his DNA"

Or I will ad my own:

Nice Warmblood: 1/2 paint and 1/2 draft. I just saw an ad for this and they said he was KWPN registerable. Yeah in your dreams...

equinedriver
Jan. 27, 2012, 12:03 PM
Don't know your price range but check Sport Horse Nation. By far the best place to find an event horse.

This one is nice

Rustic Design Karen Shull, Karen2819@aol.com, 979-229-4889

There was another one that really looked outstanding that I was going to find and send you but I can't find it now. It was only a couple weeks ago but maybe it is sold. One person told me that when they listed their horse they got over 100 emails the first day........

Mtn trails
Jan. 27, 2012, 02:43 PM
"Ready to start and finish your way!" - because we can't get near him without a baseball bat

DangerousDevo
Jan. 27, 2012, 03:02 PM
I went to look at a 5 YO TBX gelding that was advertised as a tall bay 16+ hands, started over crossrails, loves to jump. Lots of endurance, great event prospect. Sounds nice, right?

I followed the directions given to me by the "trainer" and got lost. I called her and said "Hey, I'm lost. I'm going to be late". She said: "I gave you the wrong directions - get back on the interstate for another 30 min. before you get off." So my 2 hour drive turned into a 3.5 hour drive. I get there and sure enoungh, he was a tall bay, easily 16.2. Pretty horse, nice conformation, clean legs. I'm excited. Then she takes him out of the stall.

He won't stand on crossties. He nips at her while she's tacking him up. After 45 min in the round pen, she finally wears him out enough so that she can catch him. He doesn't stand at the mounting block. He only does w/t under saddle; she hasn't started cantering him yet. I ask her to trot him over the 12" xrail. She trots about halfway down the long side - stops the horse, gets off, unbuckles the right rein at the bit, and proceeds to ~LEAD~ the horse over the xrail. He pogo-sticks it, and proceeds to bolt and drag her across the ring.

I asked her how she arrived at the conclusion that this horse was "well started over crossrails" and was a "great event prospect". She said that she'd been leading him over the xrail for three months now, so that meant he was well started; and because she couldn't wear him out, he must be a good event prospect. Plus, look how fast he ran after the "jump". He'll get really good times XC. :rolleyes:

analise
Jan. 27, 2012, 03:12 PM
LOL, I thought you were going to say you showed up and the horse was all sweaty because she'd given you the wrong directions to make you late so she'd have time to work him hard before you got there.

gully's pilot
Jan. 27, 2012, 03:28 PM
I understand ignorance to some degree. My biggest pet peeve is sellers that inflate or distort a horse's eventing record, that I can easily call up on the USEA website. Sorry, but if you've told me the horse is bombproof at BN with a junior on board, and I can look up and see that he averages 1 1/2 stops per round, I'm not interested.

I probably wouldn't be interested anyhow, but my blanket rule is that if I can catch the seller in an obvious lie before I go and see the horse, I'm not going.

Mtn trails
Jan. 27, 2012, 08:04 PM
I went to look at a 5 YO TBX gelding that was advertised as a tall bay 16+ hands, started over crossrails, loves to jump. Lots of endurance, great event prospect. Sounds nice, right?

I followed the directions given to me by the "trainer" and got lost. I called her and said "Hey, I'm lost. I'm going to be late". She said: "I gave you the wrong directions - get back on the interstate for another 30 min. before you get off." So my 2 hour drive turned into a 3.5 hour drive. I get there and sure enoungh, he was a tall bay, easily 16.2. Pretty horse, nice conformation, clean legs. I'm excited. Then she takes him out of the stall.

He won't stand on crossties. He nips at her while she's tacking him up. After 45 min in the round pen, she finally wears him out enough so that she can catch him. He doesn't stand at the mounting block. He only does w/t under saddle; she hasn't started cantering him yet. I ask her to trot him over the 12" xrail. She trots about halfway down the long side - stops the horse, gets off, unbuckles the right rein at the bit, and proceeds to ~LEAD~ the horse over the xrail. He pogo-sticks it, and proceeds to bolt and drag her across the ring.

I asked her how she arrived at the conclusion that this horse was "well started over crossrails" and was a "great event prospect". She said that she'd been leading him over the xrail for three months now, so that meant he was well started; and because she couldn't wear him out, he must be a good event prospect. Plus, look how fast he ran after the "jump". He'll get really good times XC. :rolleyes:

That is hilarious! Sad, but hilarious.

Heinz 57
Jan. 27, 2012, 08:12 PM
That is hilarious! Sad, but hilarious.

I'm embarassed to admit that I actually know people that would say/do similar things. :lol: Might be why I keep to myself so much!

visorvet
Jan. 28, 2012, 12:21 AM
Lameness is the single biggest problem I encounter as a buyer. Apparently only about 2% of horse owners have any ability to detect lameness, so I waste a lot of time visiting sound horses that turn out to be lame. Obviously people can lie and misrepresent a lame horse as sound, but most of the time I honestly think they just didn't notice it. Major waste of time, energy, and money when horse-shopping. Videos help, but most of the video clips sellers send are worthless - horses look like tiny specks moving around their pastures, or camcorder held by someone in the throes of a grand mal seizure...

I keep resolving never to go see a horse until I have decent conformation photos and some video in which all 4 limbs look weight-bearing, but I buy cheap young TBs and such luxuries are not usually available.

sadlmakr
Jan. 28, 2012, 01:36 AM
I can sympathize with all of the above. I bought un-broke and untrained horses and started them myself. But it is not what I wanted. However most of the horses I went to look at were like the above have posted. Ad sounds terrific. Go see the horse and he is a Roman Nosed knock-kneed, cowhocked and looks like he is going to attack with pinned ears and viscious eye. "Once you lay a whip on him a couple of times he's OK."
That is all I need to hear.
My young horses seemed to have chosen me. I hated to sell them but they all got good homes.
Horse traders have a bad name and it comes from their trying to make a bad horse look good.

Riding is fundamental
Jan. 28, 2012, 10:38 AM
I was skimming local horse for sale ads this am for enterntainment. Came accross one advertising a "good looking black freisian horse" without any pics of the handsome man. The best part is under the suitable or trained disciplines it lists: "bucking bronc, draft, dressage, competitive trail"

I think I should drop everything a go look at this talented animal :D

At least the bucking bronc part is probably true!

mayfair
Jan. 28, 2012, 10:35 PM
I saw a new one: "the potential to do absolutely anything," which translates to "has done absolutely nothing."

phoebetrainer
Jan. 29, 2012, 09:19 PM
I've got one advertised at the moment. He's advertised with the header: "16 hh crossbred gelding" then the body of the ad says: "by XX(TB) out of an XYZ / ABC mare. Whole ad talks about him, he etc. I got an e-mail from someone asking if he is a mare or gelding, because I stated in the ad that he is a mare????:eek:.

Lisa Preston
Jan. 29, 2012, 09:28 PM
did I forget anything?

"Would excel in any discipline."

Mtn trails
Jan. 30, 2012, 11:19 AM
Regarding a cross-bred craptastic mare "would make nice broodmare" face-palm.

juby2be
Jan. 30, 2012, 12:54 PM
Tuppy's mom-

I would totally come try your second boy out! He sounds right up my alley!

In other words, there ARE people out there for even the 'problem' horses....you just have to find them!!

Cameraine
Jan. 30, 2012, 01:54 PM
I had a couple of really interesting "go see's " when I was horse shopping for myself and for a friend.

When I was looking for me: It was a TB mare, a little older, but been there done that. Was advertised as Prelim, never needs schooling before a HT, great in dressage. And I swear to you the horse was advertised as a "2" for temperment.

I spent five minutes on the mare's back and wanted to get right back off, she was that scary. I never even took her above a trot because I was afraid I would never get her stopped.

When I was shopping for a friend: A friend who has almost never ridden and needed a babysitter/beginner's horse was looking. She call's me as I'm on my way home from work and asks me to join herself, her husband, and my husband who'd gone with them to look at this fabulous horse she's found. I tried for weeks to convince her she needed an older horse. She was convinced it would die on her unless she got a young horse. *face palm"

So I get there and they are riding this huge black bay monster in a round pen. A western saddle, but no problem there. I'm watching it go and it is attempting to bite it's rider repeatedly when you put your leg on. This on top of it's 5yrs old, and wayyy green.

I get on just to see what it would do with someone with more experience. The same. It's pushy, angry, and not anything a beginner needed. Which is exactly what I tell my friend. The owners tried to claim that the horse was biting at flies. No way, not repeatedly in the same spot when you put your leg on.

The ad that got us there: TBx, perfect for beginner, well broke on the flat. Loving nature.

Sooo not.

redalter
Jan. 30, 2012, 03:37 PM
Or here's another one. You tell seller you are looking for relatively, BUT NOT DEAD quiet, some naughtiness is fine, or simply just sane and fairly cooperative - you know - a good mind- and they assume this means you:

A - have little to no experience
B- are incapable of riding more than that

Why does it mean if you want sane that means you are not capable? :confused:

Groro
Jan. 30, 2012, 09:34 PM
I have bought and sold hundreds of horses over the last 30 years. I always try to sell a horse like I would want one sold to me. I breed, buy young, buy cheap and have a plethera of professionals that can help me fix talented horses with bad raps. I can't always fix some of those horses, but I do give them a chance.

My original background was in the h/j biz and realized it was a tough one to be in. I decided that my specialty was making "Amateur friendly" horses whether they were going to hunt, do some dressage, jump around courses or just trail ride. I like making hunt horses.... there isn't a huge amount of expense making them and I can get good prices for well schooled safe fox hunters.

I use a chiropractor/acupuncturist to work on any new horse that comes into the barn. He gives us a plan for rehab and we put it into the daily program that includes round pen work, daily hacks crosscountry, flat work and jumping. We have a small x/c course with a bank and water complex, miles of trails with water crossings and varied terrain. Once we know we have some courage and control we take our new prospects out hunting. They don't always like it. The ones who have mini-meltdowns are pointed at other disciplines. My daughter is an accomplished eventer and show jumper. We try to expose the more talented ones to recognized competitions where they can show their stuff.

When I go to sell a horse, I try to explain all the pros and cons of that particular horse. Photos, videos, show records, # of times hunted. The major difference between me and most sellers is that I offer a trial period on the horse and the option to return it for any reason. I try to weed out the people who really have no business trying a particular horse while we are still emailing. My buyers sign a contract and give the the total amount of the sale up front. They are given a predetermined time to make their decision, vet the horse and play with it in their barn; perhaps a week to ten days with a final date and time. The horse must be returned before the final date and time for the buyer to have their money returned.

I've seen all types, but try to treat each buyer specially, even if the whole experience is clearly trying to be a disaster. I have told buyers that I didn't think the horse would suit and will try to send them gently on their way.

www.virginiafieldhunters.com
www.merlesmitheventing.com
Standing Concerto Grosso (an Approved Holsteiner Stallion)

NoDQhere
Jan. 30, 2012, 10:56 PM
Or here's another one. You tell seller you are looking for relatively, BUT NOT DEAD quiet, some naughtiness is fine, or simply just sane and fairly cooperative - you know - a good mind- and they assume this means you:

A - have little to no experience
B- are incapable of riding more than that

Why does it mean if you want sane that means you are not capable? :confused:

I'd actually be impressed with your honesty! Plus, I'd think you were sensible too.

What has made me crazy is the rider who says they can ride "anything with hair" and they can barely get from the mounting block to the saddle:eek:!

Catie79
Jan. 31, 2012, 04:08 PM
I'd actually be impressed with your honesty! Plus, I'd think you were sensible too.

What has made me crazy is the rider who says they can ride "anything with hair" and they can barely get from the mounting block to the saddle:eek:!

This! This this this! Why do people suddenly think they're ready for Grand Prix when they're horse shopping?

We had one lady out to look at a horse (not mine) that was looking for a dressage home. She'd said she was working on first level dressage on the phone. A few more questions revealed that she doesn't really canter. Uhhh, pretty sure that's a required movement for first level dressage . . . She got on this poor horse and immediately started trotting, slamming on his back instead of posting. The horse that had been in a cute training level frame and calm was suddenly looking like a ticked off llama. No, she did not end up with the horse.

A smart friend of mine completely undersold her riding abilities while shopping because she wanted a packer. Reportedly several sellers were surprised when they saw her ride, thinking she just thought that badly of her riding, but she got the exact horse she wanted.

redalter
Jan. 31, 2012, 04:27 PM
For me, it's not a question of experience or confidence, I just want to have something more level headed than I have had in the past.

When I mentioned to one seller about a horse, they responded (after my mentioning the above) that I would be scared of their horse and not able to handle it.

Wow. I think it just caught me off guard. I am no Olympian by any means, but not a beginner or "bad" "scary", etc.


From now on, I am saying nothing at all when I go to look, other than I want level headed and a good brain.

It's funny, too. We probably all know ULRs, including my own trainer, who will not ride difficult or scary. Or even start the babies. Why then, do some assume that means one is afraid? Or not able to handle naughtiness?

Duckz
Jan. 31, 2012, 04:31 PM
A smart friend of mine completely undersold her riding abilities while shopping because she wanted a packer. Reportedly several sellers were surprised when they saw her ride, thinking she just thought that badly of her riding, but she got the exact horse she wanted.

I like this!! Last time I went horse shopping I stressed that Dobbin needed to quietly pack my mom around in the hunter ring. It kept me from sitting on too many crazies :)

FLeventer
Jan. 31, 2012, 05:05 PM
I always undersell my riding abilities. They ask me what I have done in eventing and I say that I have recently been riding around BN and N, but never mention that I rode training level and schooled prelim. I guess that they expect me to ride like carp when I show up. I rode a horse and my trainer was with me. I hoped on before my trainer and the owner asked me, "Doesn't your student want to ride now?" when I got off. My trainer started laughing and I replied that I was the student. I guess that they were not expecting me to do half pass, lead changes, extensions and counter canter.

gully's pilot
Jan. 31, 2012, 06:28 PM
I just saw this at the feed store today:

Pot -bellied pig. FREE OBO.

...think about that for a minute..... :)

Heinz 57
Jan. 31, 2012, 07:11 PM
This! This this this! Why do people suddenly think they're ready for Grand Prix when they're horse shopping?


I had not one but TWO ladies show up, together, to try out my greenbroke, walk-trot with questionable steering, baby. One had been out of horses for 15 years, the other at least 10. The first was a self-proclaimed 'trainer', as she'd ridden some problem horses many moons ago. Got on and immediately cranked baby's head around to each stirrup. Second lady was looking for a calm trail horse to ride on the property they were buying (no arena, no fenced area to ride in).

I was not very accomodating during their visit and I did a lot of praying.

shawnee_Acres
Jan. 31, 2012, 08:49 PM
WEll the flip side is, I advertise a horse as an upper level POTENTIAL horse and basically say in the ad that it is a bold, forward going horse, green as far as eventing goes, but bold over x-country fences in schooling, jumps 4' (with pics and video) and someone emails me wanting it for a 10 yr old child. Of course I said "Ummmmmmm....no".

BestHorses
Jan. 31, 2012, 08:53 PM
The misleading ads drive me bonkers. I think a lot of sellers believe that if you just see the horse in person you will fall in looooove with it despite its faults so they don't bother to tell you any of them. And if you don't ask specifically about a particular issue they are not about to tell you anything negative.

I also agree with previous posters that a lot of people just don't realize their horses are lame. :eek:

BadEventer
Feb. 1, 2012, 02:20 AM
I really really hate horse shopping. After a 15 year break from eventing I decided I really wanted to event again and it was time to buy a decent horse.

So I flew 1500 miles to look at a Prelim PACKER. I sent a large non-refundable deposit because this was THE HORSE for me. (Yeah I know, I have SUCKER written all over me.) I specifically said I could NOT ride a stopper. The reply, "This horse has never stopped at a jump in his entire life. This is your chance to get the most perfect Prelim packer. He'll be sold this weekend unless you send me a deposit. You don't want to miss this horse............" The seller was established and highly recommended, so I buy this hook-line-and-sinker.

I get there and the horse slams on the brakes at the first 2'9"oxer and ditches the professional riding him, in perfect "established dirty stopper style". This was the day in my life when I learned about pulling up USEA records. I pulled up his show record that night in my hotel room. Low and behold the horse had NEVER ONCE competed at Prelim, and had NEVER ONCE gotten around at training without a stop or rider fall. It was the only horse I had planned to look at because I was convinced I was taking him home and had paid the deposit, and for a full pre-purchase before I got there, and the deposit on the shipping.

It was a very very expensive lesson. I could have bought a pretty nice horse for what I spent on that little adventure. And all because someone completely misrepresented the horse they were selling. It still makes me sick to my stomach that anyone would so willfully endanger someone, and cost them that much money.

BestHorses
Feb. 1, 2012, 06:35 PM
This was the day in my life when I learned about pulling up USEA records.

It was a very very expensive lesson.

Btdt! I want to cry (well, actually have lots of times) when I think about the amount of money wasted on looking at and buying misrepresented horses. As you did, I learned a lesson every time. I just wish the tuition wasn't so high!