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View Full Version : What percent TB do you like in an eventer?



Mukluk
Jan. 23, 2012, 11:22 PM
My lovely mare is 100% TB- the fine boned lady like sort. She hasn't got her feet wet in eventing yet but she loves to jump and is quite athletic. Down the road I would like something with a bit more bone and a bit more stout (bigger barrel) so I have thought of breeding her to a warmblood. Yes I know it's cheaper to buy a young horse but I just LOVE this mare and would keep the baby for me. Are there any warmblood stallions out there that are basically half TB? Then I would get 3/4 TB and 1/4 warmblood. I just love the TB mind, athleticism, but want something a bit stouter with better feet. All comments/ feedback welcome. What is the breeding of your event horse?

yellowbritches
Jan. 23, 2012, 11:46 PM
My guy is 100% TB and that's my preference. I don't mind 7/8, and, depending on the horse and the breeding, 3/4 is ok. But, I'm a hardcore TB girl.

Not all TBs are created equal. Both Toby and Vernon are stout fellows. Toby is small (15.3) and a little on the rangy side (a nice thing in my book!), but I would not say that he was fine boned or slab sided at all. Vernon is built like a tank (he comes from good chaser lines, I've been told, which probably explains his stouter build). There's an English bred TB in my care right now who is HUGE, although not tall. But I have ridden my fair share of slab sided, fine boned, fragile little TB things. Not my preference, but you see that type a lot, especially if they were bred to be sprinters.

I am NOT the person to talk to about stallions and breeding, etc, but I am SURE you can find a good stallion that should give her some more substance without throwing out the athletic build and TB brain. You may be able to find it in a TB, for that matter, if you know what you are looking for. There are a lot of nice stallions out there, of all breeds. I am partial to Irish breeding if I'm not going 100% TB ;)

FitToBeTied
Jan. 24, 2012, 05:37 AM
I prefer the 100%TB as well. Both mine are pretty big bodied with good legs. Each of them comes from steeple chaser lines.

judybigredpony
Jan. 24, 2012, 05:47 AM
100%..:)...I only have 1 WB and he has a huge amount of TB in pedigree...the other 22 are 100% TB

RiverBendPol
Jan. 24, 2012, 06:10 AM
100% TB, no doubt about it ;)

GoForAGallop
Jan. 24, 2012, 06:46 AM
I would just look for a heavy TB stud. The barn I work for has a big five year old who is BUILT, looks just like a warmblood. He's going to go to a few warmblood inspections this year and (hopefully) get a few approvals, and then will be standing at stud for the public.

pegasusmom
Jan. 24, 2012, 07:12 AM
Husband's horse is 100% OTTB - nice bone, lovely elegant body without being clunky.

The big horse is 7/8 TB (officially Canadian Sport Horse). The rest of him is a mishmash of draft - to include Friesian and at one time a Clydesdale apparently walked past a great grandmother. . . :lol::lol::lol:

YB is right - there is a huge variance in "type" in TB. And even when you are sure of what a stallion produces it is still a crap shoot. The one and only time I ever bred, it was a TB mare to a Canadian Commerical stallion. I had seen many of this guys get and loved loved loved what he produced. A friend even had a gelding that was out of a 3/4 sister to our mare by this sire. What we got was nothing like the rest of the siblings.

foxhavenfarm
Jan. 24, 2012, 08:35 AM
Absolutely 100% Thoroughbred. The 3/4' s can be nice too.

Holly Jeanne
Jan. 24, 2012, 08:36 AM
If I hadn't lost my TB mare to EPM, I think I'd be looking into this stallion:

http://www.emeraldacrestk.com/tate%202.htm

Not mine and I'm not associated with him but he's been doing some eventing and I like his refinement.

Eventer55
Jan. 24, 2012, 08:56 AM
For me it's Thoroughbred 100% and this probably won't help you as I don't know where you are but, my retired gelding is constantly mistaken for a Warmblood. You can find a large boned Tb stallion and breed her to him. Remember though you won't get a registered foal unless you do live cover.

Also, remember when you breed if you want to change something you have to find a stallion that throws his genetics because the mare contributes about 65% to the foal. Denny has an interesting running commentary on Facebook about breeding and he loves Thoroughbreds.

For me (I'm breeding my mare this year) I found a big 16.2 Tb stallion right near me so we're going to see what we get. Personally, I did CTR and some endurance for 25 years and bone size means very little to me, although I like a taller horse about 16h or bigger. I look at whether the horse stayed sound with hard work. Those little Arabs carry over 200 lbs up and down The mountains and pound the dirt roads year after year.

These are just some of my ramblings, I hope you get a gorgeous baby whatever you breed to. If you're interested I can send info on the stallion I'm breeding my mare to as they also do AI with him.

purplnurpl
Jan. 24, 2012, 09:00 AM
I like 1/2 to 3/4 TB.
3/4 to 7/8 if it is a nice big quiet TB line.

I like the Trakehner posted above.
I liked Onasis. I like the huntery type and Onasis was a nice type for that.
Tycoon was very pretty too.

But if you are looking for bone/size then maybe check out Roc USA. I've got my eyeballs on him because he's nice and stout and he has the TB line that I like so much. (Turn-to)
(the chrome doesn't hurt either...)
He is used quite a bit to cross with TB mares.
He's got a lot of blood in him but is said to produce good sized horses that are very easy to work with. People say he out produces himself which isn't a bad thing!

He'll give you the warmblood movement if you so desire.
http://rocusa.net/

another biggy with lots of blood is Jaguar Mail.
Though I don't know much about him.
He also has the Turn-to line.
http://www.hilltopfarminc.com/stallion_jaguar.html

and nice full TB with that line is the ever infamous A Fine Romance.
http://www.afineromance.ca/afineromance.html

everyone says his kids are really nice.

To buy one of these nice (warmblood) kids as a weanling is between 10-15K.
To breed one yourself is more like 5K by the time they hit the ground if all goes well.

And frankly, good TBs aren't much cheaper. The breeder I buy through has some nice kids on the ground. 2 and 3 year olds that are on their way to the track. They are all priced at 10K. And worth it IMO.

Also, the sucky thing about looking for a nice large boned TB stallion is that JC is live cover only and though you may not care about registry the TB stallions are usually only available live cover. So unless he's a TB used for sport horse rather than race horse you have to go to him.

Wimbledon is a nice big boy. His kids I've seen look like they were made to be jumpers.
http://www.valorfarm.com/wimbledon.html

wow, and Valor has a new stallion: Indygo Mountain.
NICE pedigree!!
http://www.valorfarm.com/indygo_mountain.html

SEPowell
Jan. 24, 2012, 09:08 AM
Check out Steuart Pittman's stallion http://dodonfarm.com/

He's tb and has excellent bone, feet and conformation.

With that said, if you end up with you mare's bone I wouldn't worry if she's been sound because remember it's bone density that matters, not bone size.

wildlifer
Jan. 24, 2012, 09:16 AM
I like 100% as well -- mine is and has lovely big feet and bone, something I'm very picky about, so they are definitely not all willowy things!

GutsNGlory
Jan. 24, 2012, 09:17 AM
While I love the 100% TB for eventing, I do understand the desire to breed a nice TB mare to a WB for something with a bit more substance and movement...

I am a bit biased, as I have two full siblings by him, but I recommend Balta' Czar (http://www.jumpstartfarm.com/Default.asp?Page=111) as a good cross with a TB to produce an all around type (he has babies excelling in hunters, jumpers, and eventing). I haven't seen a baby of his that I didn't like. Great personalities and lovely types!

And, like purplnurpl suggested, Roc USA (http://rocusa.net/) could be a nice match, depending on the mare. We would love to breed our Balta' Czar filly to him!

Peregrine Farm
Jan. 24, 2012, 10:27 AM
At the upper levels, the most successful horses have TB% in excess of 70%, and there are still many pure TBs succeeding at that level (and all levels). If you simply like TBs, then go that route.

At the lower levels, however, many types/breeds can succeed. You asked about warmbloods, and most warmblood stallions pointed towards eventing have at least 30-60% blood in the pedigree. With your mare being TB, any foal that you have by a warmblood sire will likely have 65%-80% blood in the pedigree, which is more than enough.

Unless you are breeding for an advanced horse, I wouldn't worry about blood percentage too much. Evaluate your mare, pick a well-conformed stallion that matches her (and crosses well with TBs) and that has a track record of producing traits that you want (mind, athleticism, movement, jump, etc.), and then hope for the best.

millerra
Jan. 24, 2012, 10:43 AM
I bred my very refined TB mare to Salute the Truth. To put her into perspective, she is between 16.2 and 16.3, wore a cob sized bridle and 0 size shoes. [yes, she is still sound @ 26]

Anyhow, her boy, age 6 - is built like a brick - in a good way. People do NOT believe that he is 100% TB given the way he moves and his build. People think warmblood.

Bottom line- if you're looking to add substance yet keep 100% TB, I would recommend Salute the Truth.

Heinz 57
Jan. 24, 2012, 10:50 AM
My big gelding (17.2+, wears a 58" girth and size 2/3 shoes) is by Personal Flag, out of a Pleasant Colony mare.

If I had a mare I really liked, I'd breed her to Earth Colony at Fabrizius Farm (http://www.fabriziusfarm.com/). I love the size, the bone, AND the brain the PC's all seem to have.

mustangsal85
Jan. 24, 2012, 12:24 PM
I would vote all or almost all TB as well, depending of course on your long term ambitions for the offspring. Yes heavier bone is desireable for the rigors of XC but I think you could still find that in a TB stallion.

I have a friend who has had great success with a Salute the Truth baby who was out of a more dainty mare, although she wasn't necessarily a sheet in the wind. Here is his page:

http://www.dodonfarm.com/willy1.html

mustangsal85
Jan. 24, 2012, 12:27 PM
I bred my very refined TB mare to Salute the Truth. To put her into perspective, she is between 16.2 and 16.3, wore a cob sized bridle and 0 size shoes. [yes, she is still sound @ 26]

Anyhow, her boy, age 6 - is built like a brick - in a good way. People do NOT believe that he is 100% TB given the way he moves and his build. People think warmblood.

Bottom line- if you're looking to add substance yet keep 100% TB, I would recommend Salute the Truth.

Just saw this!! Haha, great minds. :)

Beam Me Up
Jan. 24, 2012, 12:35 PM
I love the TBs. All my faves have been 100%. Had one 7/8 TB 1/8 Oldenburg who was gorgeous and a nice mover but ultimately not an eventer, but I can see wanting to add a bit of the fancy movement. I believe that a lot of Warmbloods are largely TB. The sire of the one I mentioned was registered Old but was 3/4 TB.

Also, while I think "type" is a very personal preference which has to do with your own aesthetic preferences and possibly rider conformation, I don't necessarily think heavier/stockier TBs are sounder or more talented than the lighter built ones. Any more than is true of human athletes. Bone density is important, but rarely measured in horses. My 2 war horses were both very fine types. I think it is more a question of being proportionate and having good angles so a horse is "easy on itself."

JER
Jan. 24, 2012, 12:41 PM
Approx. 80%-100%.

I like a full TB or something in the 7/8± range.

Also, I don't want my TBs or mostly-TBs to be mistaken for WBs. I'd rather have people think they're TBs.

:)

jenm
Jan. 24, 2012, 12:45 PM
Count me in as part of the 100% TB clique!

yellowbritches
Jan. 24, 2012, 01:04 PM
Approx. 80%-100%.

I like a full TB or something in the 7/8± range.

Also, I don't want my TBs or mostly-TBs to be mistaken for WBs. I'd rather have people think they're TBs.

:)

Agreed! I don't consider it a compliment, necessarily. More of an uneducated eye, or someone who has only been exposed to wispy little TBs. I had a girl who kept telling me Toby looked like a WB...nooo, he doesn't (he really doesn't, either!). He's a TB. He acts like a TB, moves like a TB, thinks like a TB...don't insult him! :winkgrin::lol:

purplnurpl
Jan. 24, 2012, 02:28 PM
My big gelding (17.2+, wears a 58" girth and size 2/3 shoes) is by Personal Flag, out of a Pleasant Colony mare.

If I had a mare I really liked, I'd breed her to Earth Colony at Fabrizius Farm (http://www.fabriziusfarm.com/). I love the size, the bone, AND the brain the PC's all seem to have.

uuggh. love him.
http://www.breeding-stallions.com/stallion808.html
I gots me a soft spot for Pleasant Colony.

there is this guy too:
http://www.victoryrose.com/html/berhens.html

I think I like Behrens just a sqeek more..

scubed
Jan. 24, 2012, 02:39 PM
50-100%, but it depends what the cross is. For example if draft, would probably be looking for 7/8 TB, but for a Trakehner, I have had several 1/2 TB that I really liked

Heinz 57
Jan. 24, 2012, 03:02 PM
uuggh. love him.
http://www.breeding-stallions.com/stallion808.html
I gots me a soft spot for Pleasant Colony.

there is this guy too:
http://www.victoryrose.com/html/berhens.html

I think I like Behrens just a sqeek more..

Oh, now you've done it. What about Pleasantly Perfect (http://www.lanesend.com/stallion/pleasantly-perfect)?

All the Pleasant Colony babies I've seen (including my own) have that same substantial build.

outside__line
Jan. 24, 2012, 03:56 PM
I like 100% full TB for everything! :-) My current OTTB is a jumper, and although I haven't done more than dabble in eventing, I have foxhunted TBs and think the world of them. I have gotten to ride some really nice WBs over the years but I'd still choose a TB for hunting or eventing.

Several have mentioned Salute the Truth as a possible stallion. He is amazing - got to 'meet' him and see him in action at the Horse Expo one year and have never forgotten him. If you like TBs, he is just dreamy - and a very solid guy if you are looking to improve on that in your mare.

If you are interested in a 100% TB baby, there are definitely stallions out there that would fit the bill. Good luck in choosing a 'man' for your mare! :-)

horsetales
Jan. 24, 2012, 06:55 PM
Gatsby and Lotus T are 2 WB with the half TByou are looking for. Our Gatsby x ISH foal sold in-utero to an eventer

An IDSH might also be a good choice like Pallas Digon at Acorn Hill. A Full RID can also give a nice eventer

Here is the 1/2 RID mare we sold
http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/horsetales/?action=view&current=Emmyxcountry.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/horsetales/PIC_0665-1.jpg

Now schooling prelim
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/horsetales/Adelaide1-2012-1.jpg

HUSGal
Jan. 24, 2012, 11:38 PM
I vote 3/4 or full TB, although I have an appendix right now that acts mostly TB with a little more QH substance and he's wonderful!

Larbear
Jan. 24, 2012, 11:52 PM
100% TB, love my ottb :D

JER
Jan. 25, 2012, 12:29 AM
I just LOVE this mare and would keep the baby for me. Are there any warmblood stallions out there that are basically half TB?

I can't think of any top crossbred eventing sires who are less than half TB. Most are 5/8ths - 15/16ths TB.

You do want to know, however, that your choice of stallion crosses well with TB mares, and specifically of a type similar to yours.

You need to know what you want in the offspring, then you seek out a stallion who produces that type when bred to mares like yours.

:)

Mukluk
Jan. 25, 2012, 12:59 AM
thanks all for the great suggestions. I really do love my 100% TB girl. Here is her pedigree

http://www.equineline.com/Free-5X-Pedigree.cfm?page_state=ORDER_AND_CONFIRM&reference_number=7186939&registry=T&horse_name=A%20True%20Angel&dam_name=True%20Irish&foaling_year=2004&nicking_stats_indicator=Y

wildlifer
Jan. 25, 2012, 11:50 AM
uuggh. love him.
http://www.breeding-stallions.com/stallion808.html
I gots me a soft spot for Pleasant Colony.

there is this guy too:
http://www.victoryrose.com/html/berhens.html

I think I like Behrens just a sqeek more..

Wow, I love Behrens. :eek: Those are the kinds of legs I look for, with substance and those are what my OTTB has as well, although he is a Crowd Pleaser (AP Indy) x Allen's Prospect mare. What a lovely horse!

crosscreeksh
Jan. 25, 2012, 03:42 PM
I'm a die hard TB lover/rider...even in my old age!!!, but we are now breeding some 3/4 and 7/8 TB - Irish Sport Horses along with our pure TB's and they are VERY nice. TB body, movement, plenty of "GO", but a touch softer disposition than a pure TB. I think they will make awesome sport horse prospects with the ability to suit the amateurs or go farther up the levels. Not everyone can/will want to deal with a pure TB.

Jealoushe
Jan. 27, 2012, 08:54 AM
%100 !:cool:

SEPowell
Jan. 27, 2012, 09:20 AM
thanks all for the great suggestions. I really do love my 100% TB girl. Here is her pedigree

http://www.equineline.com/Free-5X-Pedigree.cfm?page_state=ORDER_AND_CONFIRM&reference_number=7186939&registry=T&horse_name=A%20True%20Angel&dam_name=True%20Irish&foaling_year=2004&nicking_stats_indicator=Y

She's nicely bred and I'd have a hard time crossing that breeding with even a warmblood who has a ton of tb in him. But I'm addicted to tbs and more into racing than eventing.

But still, if she does everything you want and she's sound I wouldn't worry about bone size. It's nice to have a large boned tb but bone size is not an indicator of soundness or performance. Also, your foal is not guaranteed to get larger bone.

If you can find some pictures of McDynamo look at them carefully. He wasn't a big tb, but he ran and won for years and retired from steeplechasing sound.

EventerAJ
Jan. 27, 2012, 10:37 AM
Originally Posted by purplnurpl http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6099689#post6099689)
uuggh. love him.
http://www.breeding-stallions.com/stallion808.html
I gots me a soft spot for Pleasant Colony.

there is this guy too:
http://www.victoryrose.com/html/berhens.html

I think I like Behrens just a sqeek more..



Oh, now you've done it. What about Pleasantly Perfect (http://www.lanesend.com/stallion/pleasantly-perfect)?

All the Pleasant Colony babies I've seen (including my own) have that same substantial build.


I'm in love with Sightseeing (http://www.richlandhillsfarm.com/stallions/sightseeing/). He's by Pulpit, out of a Pleasant Colony mare, and you can really see the PC in him. I saw a couple of his yearlings at Keeneland earlier this month, and they were quite nice. He really stamps them with a great neck coming up out of a long shoulder, short backs, and good hind end. I wish I could've seen them move more than a walk!

Derid
Jan. 27, 2012, 11:08 AM
there is this guy too:
http://www.victoryrose.com/html/berhens.html

I think I like Behrens just a sqeek more..


I'm in love with Sightseeing (http://www.richlandhillsfarm.com/stallions/sightseeing/). He's by Pulpit, out of a Pleasant Colony mare, and you can really see the PC in him. I saw a couple of his yearlings at Keeneland earlier this month, and they were quite nice. He really stamps them with a great neck coming up out of a long shoulder, short backs, and good hind end. I wish I could've seen them move more than a walk!

WOW! Thanks for posting those two!

Lotta-b
Jan. 27, 2012, 01:19 PM
I also am in the 100%, or at least close to it, TB club. I have done the warmbloods, and own an Oldenburg/TB, but when it came to buying my next event horse, I bought a 100% TB colt by Perfect Circle. I got to meet the stallion and siblings when I went to look at him. Perfect Circle has more bone on him then many warmbloods I know and is has an awesome temperament. My boy looks like he will be large but not heavy and I can't wait to start him as his canter is uphill and effortless. The owners of Perfect Circle were also very nice when I talked with the wife about buying my colt. Perfect Circle's website is http://www.rkthoroughbreds.com/perfectcircle.htm

beanie&boomer
Jan. 27, 2012, 01:56 PM
I really like the foals my stallion Mt. Vidmore has thrown. Even the 100% TBs have good substance and temperament and good feet! He is by Mt. Livermore and out of a Pleasant Colony mare.

I also have a part Cleveland Bay stallion who is an agile, athletic moose! His eldest foals are 2011, so I'm not exactly sure how light or heavy his foals will end up. So far I really like them though.

We are near Frederick, MD. Don't know if that is convenient to you or not.

Foxtrot's
Jan. 27, 2012, 02:53 PM
All mine have been TB's but there was an interesting stat: of the top l5 horses in Hong Kong in 2008, seven were Irish bred to some degree.

Fred
Jan. 27, 2012, 03:20 PM
Count me in also in the minimum 75% to 100% Thoroughbred group.
One example is the full TB A First Romance (by A Fine Romance) who is currently competing at Advanced with Selena O'Hanlon.

kookicat
Jan. 29, 2012, 07:28 PM
100% TB for me.

Both of mine are pure TB, but quite different in type. Rue is a big lad- 17.2 and a proper middleweight. Asp is a hand smaller and much lighter over all.

HTeventing
Feb. 6, 2012, 06:38 PM
Totally 100%! I'm a tb addict!

atheventer85
Feb. 6, 2012, 08:34 PM
Full TB would be my first choice, but I've ridden many 1/2 Irish breds (ISH) and LOVED them; I couldn't ask for a better XC horse. But a TB does have the endurance on it's side, and can run and jump forever!

bornfreenowexpensive
Feb. 6, 2012, 08:47 PM
I've mostly had full TBs both OTTB and not. But now have a few crosses (most are at least 50% or much more TB)....and have decided I just like a good horse. There at full TBs that are clunky and don't have the gallop I want.....and I've now had TB/WB who could gallop all day long and you will not reach his bottom. So I prefer to just judge the individual......and want a good horse...and know the percentage of blood doesn't mean everything.

Eventguy
Feb. 8, 2012, 02:01 PM
All mine have been TB's but there was an interesting stat: of the top l5 horses in Hong Kong in 2008, seven were Irish bred to some degree.

Would those be "Irish bred" that are 15/16 TB or the "Irish bred" that have Holstein or KWPN Sires? :)

(sorry, couldn't help myself):winkgrin:

acottongim
Feb. 8, 2012, 02:48 PM
If I hadn't lost my TB mare to EPM, I think I'd be looking into this stallion:

http://www.emeraldacrestk.com/tate%202.htm

Not mine and I'm not associated with him but he's been doing some eventing and I like his refinement.

Thanks Holly Jeanne (I still am not used to seeing my boy recommended - still somewhat of a shock if that makes sense since he hasn't been breeding all that long).

First the love of my life mare is a 3/4 TB 1/4 TK. So I LOVE a good dose of TB blood in the program. Tatendrang (Tate) is "pure" TK but there IS TB in him, albeit a few generations back on both sides of his pedigree. He is very "thoroughbredy" looking though - and as someone said also, he has that "hunter conformation" look about him. That being said, he is NOT a hunter stallion! :lol: He has way too much movement for hunters and his jumping style is more eventer/jumper like.

Not sure if he would be good for this particular mare though. His third foal crop is due any time now to start hitting the ground and hopefully at the end of this season I'll have a better idea of how he crosses on very fine boned/refined mares, but up till now he has been primarily crossed onto heavier/med bone mares (some with TB in them, some are pure TK) and he has refined them all. He tends to throw copies of himself really.

Also... just in case someone does go to try and click on the link... My website was hacked and we are having to overhaul. We have a temp fix up but there are no direct links to any page on the website - you would have to go to the main page addy and go from there. Or Tate has a "fan" page on FB: www.facebook.com/Tatendrang (http://www.facebook.com/Tatendrang).

bornfreenowexpensive
Feb. 8, 2012, 03:46 PM
. Tatendrang (Tate) is "pure" TK but there IS TB in him, albeit a few generations back on both sides of his pedigree. He is very "thoroughbredy" looking though - and as someone said also, he has that "hunter conformation" look about him. That being said, he is NOT a hunter stallion! :lol: He has way too much movement for hunters and his jumping style is more eventer/jumper like.




Looks like he has close to half blood.

http://www.horsetelex.nl/pedigree.php?horseid=558782

Nice looking boy!

acottongim
Feb. 8, 2012, 04:08 PM
Thanks :) And thanks for finding that link... I honestly have never sat down and tried to figure out the TB in him, other than I know that there is some back there and what there is is "good" ;)