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View Full Version : WEF 2012 -Pro Derby LIVE... On USEF Network



BigRuss1996
Jan. 20, 2012, 06:55 PM
For anyone who wants to watch USEF Network is showing the Pro Derby live starting at 7 PM. EN has a link posted for anyone who can't find it.....

BigRuss1996
Jan. 20, 2012, 06:58 PM
http://www.usefnetwork.com/featured/WEF2012

ctab
Jan. 20, 2012, 07:09 PM
Wish I could be there!
I am cheering them on at home!
Where is the crowd????

LOL it is bay central!

wildlifer
Jan. 20, 2012, 07:12 PM
There is no there watching, LOL. Poor announcer, he is trying so hard.

ctab
Jan. 20, 2012, 07:14 PM
Is there a way to Tweet in your cheer? :D

FlightCheck
Jan. 20, 2012, 07:19 PM
I seem to remember that there is a Very Large Charity Event going on somewhere else in Wellington tonight, hence a smaller audience was expected.

I could be very wrong; but I think there was a date change?

Duckz
Jan. 20, 2012, 07:19 PM
I'm getting audio but the screen keeps going black :(

Blugal
Jan. 20, 2012, 07:20 PM
Is there a start list? I can't have the volume turned up loud at work! ;-)

ctab
Jan. 20, 2012, 07:24 PM
Try refreshing page is it goes black
Use F5

War Admiral
Jan. 20, 2012, 07:31 PM
Is there a start list? I can't have the volume turned up loud at work! ;-)

If you scroll UP to the white menu, you'll see "Order of Go and Results". Click on that and it offers, among other things, this class.

kateh
Jan. 20, 2012, 07:33 PM
What's on Will Faudree's helmet? A camera?

FlightCheck
Jan. 20, 2012, 07:35 PM
yes, helmet cam

War Admiral
Jan. 20, 2012, 07:37 PM
How many of the eventers are on full TBs? Inquiring minds wanna know. :D

Blugal
Jan. 20, 2012, 07:40 PM
Thanks, that helps.

Well, I have to say I have not found it too enjoyable so far. Many of the horses look like they are overwhelmed, and are not jumping well.

SaturdayNightLive
Jan. 20, 2012, 07:41 PM
So....does Sinead's horse always jump like that?

ctab
Jan. 20, 2012, 07:45 PM
So....does Sinead's horse always jump like that?

I sincerely hope not.
Some of that was seriously scary.

kateh
Jan. 20, 2012, 07:47 PM
Awww good boy Steely Dan!

Jleegriffith
Jan. 20, 2012, 07:47 PM
Looked like a little too much bit on her horse? He was pretty backed off.

SaturdayNightLive
Jan. 20, 2012, 07:47 PM
I sincerely hope not.
Some of that was seriously scary.

Yeah...

And Blugal, I pretty much agree. I was all excited to watch this, and so far it's pretty painful.

Jleegriffith
Jan. 20, 2012, 07:48 PM
Steely Dan is cool!

Sarah616
Jan. 20, 2012, 07:50 PM
Could somebody explain this stuff to me? Are these... eventers? Is this a new discipline in itself? I'm terribly confused.... some people seemed to jump a longer course?

kateh
Jan. 20, 2012, 07:53 PM
It's supposed to be a kind of fun thing. Mix of stadium and cross country style jumps. Riders are in team that have I believe 3 eventers, a show jumper, and a polo player. It seems that most/all of them are mounted on eventing horses. Polo players had a shorter, lower course.

Scoring is straight time, with faults converted to 4 seconds and added to time. Joker is -10 seconds if it's up, +4sec for a knockdown. Teams drop lowest eventing rider's score (i.e. can't drop their polo or show jumper's score).

wildlifer
Jan. 20, 2012, 07:55 PM
I'm about to give up if it keeps buffering. Server overload?

two sticks
Jan. 20, 2012, 07:56 PM
Is anyone else's just continuing to buffer over and over again? It will play a few seconds and then buffer again. I'm on blazing fast internet so don't think it's my connection.

dani0303
Jan. 20, 2012, 07:58 PM
Mine keeps doing this too. I also have really fast internet. Grrr.

kateh
Jan. 20, 2012, 07:58 PM
Same problem here with the incessant buffering.

wildlifer
Jan. 20, 2012, 07:58 PM
Yup, I have crazy fast internet too -- so something's not up to snuff on USEF's end.

Miss T
Jan. 20, 2012, 07:58 PM
Yep. The buffering thing also.

ctab
Jan. 20, 2012, 07:59 PM
I'm about to give up if it keeps buffering. Server overload?

Glad it's not just me.

I wish we had announcers like this at our local shows!
He is too funny!

Nigel
Jan. 20, 2012, 08:03 PM
Yes. But I'm in Belgium, with not the quickest internet. I'm off to bed, it's ridiculously late (2am!) here and not worth it to stay up for constant buffering.

mkevent
Jan. 20, 2012, 08:08 PM
That's what keeps happening to me, too.

Somehow mixing xc jumps in with stadium courses seems too confusing. Maybe if they put xc jumps that required "a coffin canter" it wouldn't seem so wierd to me.

Having the types of xc fences that usually take a least an average to forward ride mixed with stadium jumps (like tables, etc) just seems to make the courses seem too mentally challenging for the horses. Riding xc is a different mindset than stadium-wouldn't it be the same for the horses?

ctab
Jan. 20, 2012, 08:12 PM
That's what keeps happening to me, too.

Somehow mixing xc jumps in with stadium courses seems too confusing. Maybe if they put xc jumps that required "a coffin canter" it wouldn't seem so wierd to me.

Having the types of xc fences that usually take a least an average to forward ride mixed with stadium jumps (like tables, etc) just seems to make the courses seem too mentally challenging for the horses. Riding xc is a different mindset than stadium-wouldn't it be the same for the horses?

Seems like the horses are dealing with it better than the riders.
Look at Steely Dan pack that polo player around like a hunter!
I don't know the fence height of the CC jumps but they don't look scary big to me, except for the keyhole;)

mustangsal85
Jan. 20, 2012, 08:15 PM
The buffering is really pissing me off. I've missed the last half hour

sansibar
Jan. 20, 2012, 08:17 PM
The buffering is really pissing me off. I've missed the last half hour

Me too! :(

BigRuss1996
Jan. 20, 2012, 08:19 PM
The Buffering is terrible!....glad it's free...

Trak_Eventer
Jan. 20, 2012, 08:43 PM
The buffering is terrible. thumbs down usef network!
The video keeps jumping around to different riders too when the pause isn't long enough for someone to finish a whole course

maxxtrot
Jan. 20, 2012, 08:49 PM
yea the buffering was really bad, finally turned it off. am pissed missed jon's ride all together :(

dani0303
Jan. 20, 2012, 08:53 PM
I gave up too. Hopefully they'll fix it before they archive it. I'd like to watch the replay.

AlterEgoME
Jan. 20, 2012, 08:55 PM
Making me CRAZY!

flutie1
Jan. 20, 2012, 08:56 PM
I hear that there aren't many spectators. I gave up trying to get the damn thing to work!

runnyjump
Jan. 20, 2012, 09:03 PM
Between the constant buffering and the "soundtrack", I am very frustrated!

FlightCheck
Jan. 20, 2012, 09:19 PM
It just kicked me off during Hannah's ride.

retreadeventer
Jan. 20, 2012, 09:31 PM
Gave up. Buffering AND slow internet equals forget it.

JLL90
Jan. 21, 2012, 12:05 AM
@SaturdayNightLive and CTab

In response to your question. No. Sinead's horse does not EVER jump like. She found success in the jumpers at WEF with two different BNT's for several years before making the switch to three day eventing. She has found success through the intermediate level.

So I would look not so much at the horse alone but the whole ride.

bizbachfan
Jan. 21, 2012, 12:12 AM
It was fun to be there in person, but very small crowd, great chance to see some great horses and riders up close.

bornfreenowexpensive
Jan. 21, 2012, 09:18 AM
That's too bad about the live streaming...I'm hoping to watch some when it is archived. Also a shame it didn't have a larger draw of spectators.

I do think it takes a certain type of horse (and ride) to do well at this...careful but brave and quick thinking. This link was posted on a thread about Grafenstolz (this is one of his offspring) and I think shows great round in this sort of competition. Love how he jumps the decorations to get the better/faster line to the fences....every thing looks smooth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzECBEnHbRM

enjoytheride
Jan. 21, 2012, 10:18 AM
I was disapointed that the stands were empty, and I have to say that I did not enjoy many of the rides.

Maybe it's just me but running a horse off its feet and hauling it around corners at large solid fences isn't safe or good riding. I felt that the need to be the fastest time lead to some poor riding and some very frazzled horses. I think that these horses were obedient and made effort to jump what was in front of them, but that doesn't mean they don't deserve a better ride. I think that skill kept these riders on top and with their horses over the top of the fences, but I'd really have liked to see them wearing vests.

I know that many of these riders have years of experience at the upper levels so I'm not sure why they look safe and coordinated on a big fast tricky XC course and not so much here.

While I liked the concept of adding XC type fences I feel like the main attraction was the gasp factor which would draw some people in and send some people away.

Only my opinion as a lower level rider.

ctab
Jan. 21, 2012, 10:25 AM
@SaturdayNightLive and CTab

In response to your question. No. Sinead's horse does not EVER jump like. She found success in the jumpers at WEF with two different BNT's for several years before making the switch to three day eventing. She has found success through the intermediate level.

So I would look not so much at the horse alone but the whole ride.

She was out of sync with him for several fences, missed distances and getting left. She got with him the last few fences. He was a good boy and kept trying hard! It looked like both of them were going WTF is going on? LOL.

I can totally relate. I have had rounds like that and if the horse (and you!) gets rattled by it, it makes it hard to recover in a SJ round. You finish but it isn't pretty!

In the end no one was hurt :) and hopefully it was a learning experience.

At least that is what I tell myself when I try not to think how much money I just wasted by my mistakes that I should not have made in the first place.....

bizbachfan
Jan. 21, 2012, 11:01 AM
By the way Nic Roldan was a no show for Team SmartPak, anyone know why? Maybe he had a photo shoot for GQ :) ?

bornfreenowexpensive
Jan. 21, 2012, 11:13 AM
I know that many of these riders have years of experience at the upper levels so I'm not sure why they look safe and coordinated on a big fast tricky XC course and not so much here.



It is different than eventing and xc. It is much much more similar to straight show jumping. That is why I think you see riders like M. Jung who have a lot of SJ experience (and schools his horses for it) do well. To be fast, you have to be smooth and your horse has to be sharp on the aids--especially for turning. I'm not saying you don't see scary riding in SJ...but the skill set is more what you see in riders very good at speed and jump offs....not xc eventing.

This is a SJ skill NOT needed for event riders....so unless an event rider also has a background in SJ, this is not some thing they would train for themselves OR their horses.

flyingchange
Jan. 21, 2012, 11:15 AM
I was disapointed that the stands were empty, and I have to say that I did not enjoy many of the rides.

Maybe it's just me but running a horse off its feet and hauling it around corners at large solid fences isn't safe or good riding. I felt that the need to be the fastest time lead to some poor riding and some very frazzled horses. I think that these horses were obedient and made effort to jump what was in front of them, but that doesn't mean they don't deserve a better ride. I think that skill kept these riders on top and with their horses over the top of the fences, but I'd really have liked to see them wearing vests.

I know that many of these riders have years of experience at the upper levels so I'm not sure why they look safe and coordinated on a big fast tricky XC course and not so much here.

While I liked the concept of adding XC type fences I feel like the main attraction was the gasp factor which would draw some people in and send some people away.

Only my opinion as a lower level rider.

I agree totally. I really don't like "Derby Cross." Makes me cringe.

enjoytheride
Jan. 21, 2012, 11:33 AM
But showjumping is a skill needed for eventers, being 1/3 of the phase. I remember reading an article by a showjumper who admired the control of dressage tests and skillful piloting around XC courses but noticed how it can fall apart with rails down in stadium.

She said that eventers are used to going XC with brief spaces of combinations and long gallops in between to recover and they try to ride stadium the same way. She said showjumping is more of a dressage test with the emphasis being the spaces between the jumps (balance, pace, smooth aids, use of the space) and less about the jumps themselves. Since it's the last phase and one that they want to get over quickly they think of surviving it and not of breaking it down into pieces then putting the parts into a smooth and fluid ride. Something I have a lot of trouble doing myself even at my bump on the ground level.

I thought about that a lot when I watched the Derby Cross.

bornfreenowexpensive
Jan. 21, 2012, 11:40 AM
But showjumping is a skill needed for eventers, being 1/3 of the phase.


Not Jump off/ speed aspect of SJ. Look, I was a SJ rider and worked for top SJ trainer (former Chief d'Equipe).

It is no where near the same. Skills you tune in a SJ horse and rider are not the same as for eventing. This Derby Cross is much much closer to a speed class for jumpers. You would be crazy to jump your event horse like that in a HT. While they both have a goal to leave the fences up....as long as you go under the OT in eventing your end score doesn't change. In SJ speed classes or in a jump off...time does matter and fastest win. That means shaving turns matters....leaving a stride out can win it (or lose it) for you...taking a tighter line, being quicker to turn etc...are all critical. You
would never be advised to take those sort of risks in stadium for eventing...nor need to school your eye or your horse for it.


The biggest difference for Event riders (besides having all the same issues in stadium that a SJ rider can have in a first round)....is we are doing stadium on horses who just went XC or are trained for xc. That is a VERY different animal than one who just does jumpers. They jump differently, have different reactions....and at the Big 3-day events....they are fatigued.

I tell my SJ friends they can not compare the two....it is the same as expecting an event horse's dressage (when they are as fit as a race horse) to be as easy and relaxed as a pure dressage horse. We are not riding the same horses...nor training in the same manner...nor should we be. You learn from the straight dressage and straight show jumping....but you also have to understand the differences from eventing.

gold2012
Jan. 21, 2012, 03:07 PM
Not Jump off/ speed aspect of SJ. Look, I was a SJ rider and worked for top SJ trainer (former Chief d'Equipe).

It is no where near the same. Skills you tune in a SJ horse and rider are not the same as for eventing. This Derby Cross is much much closer to a speed class for jumpers. You would be crazy to jump your event horse like that in a HT. While they both have a goal to leave the fences up....as long as you go under the OT in eventing your end score doesn't change. In SJ speed classes or in a jump off...time does matter and fastest win. That means shaving turns matters....leaving a stride out can win it (or lose it) for you...taking a tighter line, being quicker to turn etc...are all critical. You
would never be advised to take those sort of risks in stadium for eventing...nor need to school your eye or your horse for it.


The biggest difference for Event riders (besides having all the same issues in stadium that a SJ rider can have in a first round)....is we are doing stadium on horses who just went XC or are trained for xc. That is a VERY different animal than one who just does jumpers. They jump differently, have different reactions....and at the Big 3-day events....they are fatigued.

I tell my SJ friends they can not compare the two....it is the same as expecting an event horse's dressage (when they are as fit as a race horse) to be as easy and relaxed as a pure dressage horse. We are not riding the same horses...nor training in the same manner...nor should we be. You learn from the straight dressage and straight show jumping....but you also have to understand the differences from eventing.

This. Plus, most of the eventers don't have any jumper back ground.

Jumpers, it is about the time, pure and simple. And don't fool yourself. While those jumps might fall down, those riders sure don't want them to. When a rail costs you first place in a 50K grand prix.....So to say that they don't need to be as careful, in fact isn't true. Talk to some of these jump riders. Leaving that rail up is VERY important.

We came out of a jumper background, and frankly, Derby Cross is a blast. We have done a couple that speed is what they judge it by. If you come from a jumper background, it's fun. I suspect it might be a bit scarier if you don't have that kind of background, or haven't had that mind set to go fast. Maybe they should do it for optimum time. They are big proponents of that for the Amateurs...safer, and WAY HARDER to get right!

I think it is a differant sport then Jumpers, or Eventing. And should be treated as such. JMHO. I think that there are riders who are good at it, and others maybe not so much. Just like there are good dressage riders, and then there's us....LOL.

JLL90
Jan. 21, 2012, 03:57 PM
She was out of sync with him for several fences, missed distances and getting left. She got with him the last few fences. He was a good boy and kept trying hard! It looked like both of them were going WTF is going on? LOL.

I can totally relate. I have had rounds like that and if the horse (and you!) gets rattled by it, it makes it hard to recover in a SJ round. You finish but it isn't pretty!

In the end no one was hurt :) and hopefully it was a learning experience.

At least that is what I tell myself when I try not to think how much money I just wasted by my mistakes that I should not have made in the first place.....

I completely agree with you. However, this horse HAS competed under the lights in the international ring at WEF before so she was quite comfortable. It is just shame the ride wasn't as smooth as it could have been. :/

mkevent
Jan. 21, 2012, 06:11 PM
BFNE-thank you for the detailed explanation. That makes sense.

I guess I'm not a fan of derby cross so far. It just seems like too much of a hybrid of xc and SJ.

My fear would be if lower level riders (I include myself in this category) became so obsessed with the time element that it made the sport more dangerous. I'm thinking in particular of one of the polo players that was gunning at the bank. It was nerve wracking to watch.

Banks, ditches and those type of elements that appear in XC require a different type of ride. I would be worried that in an effort to make the time, safety would be compromised.

I like how they did the YEH classes at Fair Hill. Maybe do the timed stadium component in the ring and then gallop to the field and do some XC fences. There would be a clear distinction between the two phases and I think would more safely incorporate them. JMHO.

gold2012
Jan. 21, 2012, 06:49 PM
I think, and this is just my opinion, that when you combine an 1100 pound animal, jumps that do or don't fall down, and riders who want to win, and thier are riders that show because they want to win, you are going to have an element of danger involved. I didn't see the derby cross last night. By the time I got the grandbaby settled in, and daughter settled in, and horses settled in, it was over. So I didn't get to see any of it, and really wanted to. So, my comments are based on our expierance with Derby Cross.

I would imagine the only way to make it safer would be to only do it for optimum time. At the speed that we do BN, through Intermediate, that just kinda makes for a quick hunter round. The interesting aspect of it, is going to be lost on most people. That is, the ability to ride at a certain speed. At the level of these riders, really, no one is going to watch. Not trying to be rude, just truthful.

So, maybe for lower levels, it might work, doing it at optimum time. I don't think you are going to get people to bid mega money though, as this was a fund raiser on optimum time.

Jumpers is fun. It's fun going out there, and being the quickest. It's fun getting those quick turns, and finding a line no one else thought of. It's user friendly. Fastest, clear time, wins. Anyone can watch. Jumpers has a big audience. Because it's exciting. There is a populace that enjoy riding jumpers. There is a populace, us, who enjoy the speed of Derby Cross, and the fun of it. IF you watch a good jumper round, the horses aren't being ran at the jumps, they aren't being ran flat out....a horse isn't going to jump flat out, least not well. It's won, because you can turn your horse. We can almost do a canter pirouette off a jump, and have won a large share of classes, because we can. I didn't get to watch last night, but it doesn't sound like it was pretty. Based on lack of coverage, it seems almost like it didn't meet with approval. But, the fact is, if you are going to put the amount of competitive people from the eventing world, in an arena, against one another....they are going to try to win.

I don't think a sport based just on optimum time would survive. I think the people who came up with the idea wanted something to get people excited, to get people involved. It is dissapointing to me that so few came, but I suppose that it was to due with the other fundraiser going on in Wellington last night. Either way, I suspect it could be a fun sport, and who are any of us to complain, don't we all go jump our horses over fixed objects? Many of the jumpers think we are crazy...lol.

Judysmom
Jan. 21, 2012, 08:05 PM
I watched it this afternoon on the archives. There were a few mins blacked out in the beginning, maybe tech problems? Honestly, I thought it was really fun, and didn't see anything as scary as I was expecting from reading this thread before I watched it!

Clark Montgomery's horse, Reinman I think? is really nice. Does anyone know what it is?

bizbachfan
Jan. 22, 2012, 08:34 AM
I watched the Derby Cross in person and though there were a few less than pretty rides overall I did not see "dangerous" riding and I like the concept. I think it could be tweaked here and there of course but overall I think it is a very cool concept and would like to see it continue. The riders from each discipline knew what they had to deal with and I am sure were prepared and I don't think any of them would put their very valuable horses in a risky situation to win something that appears at this point to just be a "fun" expo.

AlterEgoME
Jan. 22, 2012, 11:32 AM
Hated it. Horses getting run off their feet.

goodmorning
Jan. 22, 2012, 12:08 PM
Hm, I think aspects of it were entertaining. However, some of it reminded me of scary the Children/Adult jumper rounds :eek: Perhaps the eventers course was too small? I don't think it was dangerous, just 'untidy' riding as the the announcer mentioned ;)

I quite like Selena O'Hanlon's horse. Not sure what their story is, but it looked very easy to him, and he was quite willing to answer her questions, with ears pricked forward & a 'yes, mam' on his face. I'll have to keep an eye out for these two - fun pair :cool:

NCRider
Jan. 22, 2012, 01:29 PM
I think Selena rode A First Romance, her AFR gelding. I think she and her mom have done all the training on him.

Nigel
Jan. 22, 2012, 01:41 PM
Clark Montgomery's horse, Reinman I think? is really nice. Does anyone know what it is?

He's a 9 year old Danish Warmblood. He won the CIC** at Poplar Place last fall.

goodmorning
Jan. 22, 2012, 02:37 PM
I think Selena rode A First Romance, her AFR gelding. I think she and her mom have done all the training on him.

It was A First Romance. What a fun ride. Are they an up & coming pair? Haven't looked up any USEA records yet, and I'll admit to not frequenting EN or the like, to keep up with this type of stuff

Fred, you done good with that one ;)

bornfreenowexpensive
Jan. 22, 2012, 02:46 PM
It was A First Romance. What a fun ride. Are they an up & coming pair? Haven't looked up any USEA records yet, and I'll admit to not frequenting EN or the like, to keep up with this type of stuff

Fred, you done good with that one ;)

He's quite a nice horse. I think he did a couple of Advanced HTs last year.