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View Full Version : What qualifies as an OTTB?



Heliodoro
Jan. 18, 2012, 11:39 AM
In light of the TIP, the Racehorse Retirement Training Challenge and seeing a small ad on the side of the COTH forums for OTTB monogramed stuff ala the WB brands, people have been wanting to showcase their OTTBs and rightly so! I love me a TB, sure it's great if one has a great back story from the track, but you don't ride the story.

For years, I've called my horse an OTTB and now I'm wondering if I've been wrong... I know it's not a huge deal, he's not going anywhere. BUT there are awards specifically for OTTBs and I'd hate to ignorantly take that away from someone's horse who rightfully deserves it(middle child equality issue, I know...).

But really what qualifies as "off track"? Has to have raced(doesn't matter where they finished)? Has a tattoo? Has JC papers? Stabled at a track for training?

Take my guy for instance: He's registered JC and has a tattoo, but never actually raced. He was trained at the track, but was too slow and they found a new job for him before he killed himself trying to run with the big guys. Technically, he was bred (I know, I know! Most TBs ARE, but not all!) and trained to race, he just wasn't going to make it as a racehorse.

That is all. Just a little thinking discussion on a blustery day...

Far_North_Equestrian
Jan. 18, 2012, 12:01 PM
But really what qualifies as "off track"? Has to have raced(doesn't matter where they finished)? Has a tattoo? Has JC papers? Stabled at a track for training?




I would use the "has a tattoo" as a qualifyer - as I understand it the horse must be tattoed in order to train at the track, even if they didn't race the training is still there. However a JC registered TB that washed out of the training program early should also qualify if they ever had race training IMO. Not that anything I say means anything towards qualifications or anything - for that I'd pose your question directly to the organizers!

Often times we get TBs with little or no data on them except for that possibly unreadable lip tattoo. That in and of itself is usually enough to designate the horse an OTTB in my books. :)

leahandpie
Jan. 18, 2012, 12:06 PM
I'd say if they are trained for the track, then they are OTTB's! But if they were bred to race but never made it to race training, then they don't really qualify in my book.

My guy never ran a race, he was too slow also, but he was a pony horse as a 3&4 yr old!

meupatdoes
Jan. 18, 2012, 12:07 PM
The individual specs for whatever you are showing in will vary, but I personally consider anyone an ottb who lived at the track and was in race training, even if they never got a tattoo.

If it is a TB that lived on the track, and is now off of the track, it is an ottb as far as I am concerned.

Mine is not tattooed, but he came off of Belmont and sold at Keeneland for $335k as a yearling, so I think he counts, even though I wouldn't be able to do him in most of the ottb classes for lack of his papers and no tattoo.

Ransom's Rider
Jan. 18, 2012, 12:26 PM
My girl was trained at the track but never raced, and doesn't have a tattoo, and to add insult to injury I accidentally threw away her papers years ago. For TIP purposes, email Kristin at the Jockey Club, I sent her pictures and information and she gave me a letter of eligibility that I can use at the shows.

BoldChance
Jan. 18, 2012, 12:26 PM
Mine is not tattoo'd either, but he's got his gate approval and one work under him, per the owner. They ran out of time to run him as a 3yo (owner/breeder didn't have the funds to keep horses at the track f/t, and had no rider at the farm, so they really did not get consistent training time), and lucky me, he's mine, now :)

I consider him OTT, because he's got the training, the time, and whatnot. And something of an entertaining nature if you're cantering you a group. :eek:

On the other hand, were I to pick up one of this guy's yearlings, I would not consider it OTT. They have to have been started undersaddle and then BEEN on the track to be OTT, IMO.

cindywilson
Jan. 18, 2012, 12:37 PM
In California, and most other states, TBs can actually run in their first race without a tattoo. They then require one to continue racing. Some trainers will intentionally run a horse in their debut w/o a tattoo so the horse won't associate the negative experience of being tattooed with that of racing.

albigears
Jan. 18, 2012, 12:47 PM
I asked Steuart Pittman this very question. My gelding came off the track but was too slow to make it to his first race and doesn't have a tattoo. Steuart said that as far as he was concerned if they were at the track for race training they are considered OTTBs.

Hawks Nest
Jan. 18, 2012, 12:55 PM
My girl was trained at the track but never raced, and doesn't have a tattoo, and to add insult to injury I accidentally threw away her papers years ago. For TIP purposes, email Kristin at the Jockey Club, I sent her pictures and information and she gave me a letter of eligibility that I can use at the shows.

Hmm that just gave me some hope for my mare. We are 90% sure she is a TB but she has no tattoo and no papers and all I know is that her last owner (who abandoned her) bought her in NH something like 2 or 3 years ago (she is 10 or 11 now). Perhaps we can find out who this girl is.

Eventingjunkie
Jan. 18, 2012, 03:51 PM
We have an Australian OTTB that raced in Hong Kong. While he most certainly is off the track, I assume since he does not have JC registry from this country, then he will not qualify for the awards that the Jockey Club will offer at horse trials. Is this correct?

Highflyer
Jan. 18, 2012, 04:49 PM
Hmm that just gave me some hope for my mare. We are 90% sure she is a TB but she has no tattoo and no papers and all I know is that her last owner (who abandoned her) bought her in NH something like 2 or 3 years ago (she is 10 or 11 now). Perhaps we can find out who this girl is.

Unless you know her registered name (or if she had a tattoo), the Jockey Club is not going to be able to help you.

S A McKee
Jan. 18, 2012, 05:54 PM
Each group that runs programs for TB's can have different rules.

The JC T.I.P program requires a separate entry blank that lists the horses TB registered name, the TB foal registration number, the name it shows under.

Falling having papers, you can compete with a tat lookup result from the JC or a letter from the JC saying that the horse is a TB. If you don't have the above documentation you aren't eligible. The show/event secretary has to mark the JC T.I.P entry blank as eligible or not eligible so make sure you and the secretary are clear about the horse's status.
http://tjctip.com/owners.asp

The TB Celebration rules are a little different and are designed more to showcase horses that have raced but in general, if you can prove the horse is a TB by a method acceptable to the Tb Celebration group you are eligible with them.

Rules change over time but in NY it's possible to have a TB who was at the track for training but does not have a tat. If the owner does not give you the JC papers and there is no tat you'll have a problem getting 'proof'. I have one that failed gate training but did actually start once and he has no tat. I have his papers.

USHJA has a considerably looser qualification.
"Limited to horses that are registered with or are eligible to be registered with the Jockey Club"
I think 'eligible to be registered' is a 'can of worms'.

shawnee_Acres
Jan. 18, 2012, 06:34 PM
I consider a horse trained at the track as "off the track", tatooed or not. i have a coming three year old (technically is now three as of 2012) TB gelding that I have had for two years. He was bred to race, but was never registered, altho he could be if someone wanted to pay the stud fee (dam was abandoned at the breeding farm and rescued by a friend), I know his entire pedigree, yet he has never and will never set foot on a track, so I considered him a TB "bred to race".

JER
Jan. 18, 2012, 06:43 PM
According to recent posts on the SHB board, an OTTB is a TB that comes from a 'rescue' and was definitely 'abused' and 'underfed', and probably bred from 'the worst'.

Also, an OTTB will 'run through an owie' like no other breed.

I hope that answers your questions. If not, go on over to the breeding forum and read the various 'American Thoroughbred' threads. You might want to wear your helmet to protect against repetitive headdesking and facepalming.

:D

Petstorejunkie
Jan. 18, 2012, 07:09 PM
Anyone know where to find a list of TIP shows?

Heinz 57
Jan. 18, 2012, 07:31 PM
According to recent posts on the SHB board, an OTTB is a TB that comes from a 'rescue' and was definitely 'abused' and 'underfed', and probably bred from 'the worst'.

Also, an OTTB will 'run through an owie' like no other breed.

I hope that answers your questions. If not, go on over to the breeding forum and read the various 'American Thoroughbred' threads. You might want to wear your helmet to protect against repetitive headdesking and facepalming.

:D

I waded out after 3/4 of the first page. Meh. I have every intention of breeding myself a nice baby by Earth Colony one day soon.

Til then, my little army of misfits (OTTB, OTSTB, and the jack of all trades) will do just fine. :lol:

S A McKee
Jan. 18, 2012, 07:49 PM
I consider a horse trained at the track as "off the track", tatooed or not. i have a coming three year old (technically is now three as of 2012) TB gelding that I have had for two years. He was bred to race, but was never registered, altho he could be if someone wanted to pay the stud fee (dam was abandoned at the breeding farm and rescued by a friend), I know his entire pedigree, yet he has never and will never set foot on a track, so I considered him a TB "bred to race".

It's not just paying the stud fee.
If it isn't registered TB as a 3 yr old that'll cost 2K to get paperwork from the JC.
And without a breeding cert you'll have a hard time.
It would be expensive to get this one registered JC but without the paperwork probably not eligible for any of the TB special programs.

S A McKee
Jan. 18, 2012, 07:50 PM
Anyone know where to find a list of TIP shows?

http://tjctip.com/resources/calendar.pdf

faybe
Jan. 18, 2012, 08:55 PM
Per the TIP website:


For purposes of eligibility for all T.I.P. classes and awards, a “Thoroughbred” is
defined as any horse that has been registered with The Jockey Club. All horse
shows must require riders to verify registration on the day of the horse show through
one of the following methods:
- The Jockey Club Certificate of Foal Registration or a copy thereof; or
- The horse’s lip tattoo, the horse’s 5-cross pedigree and the successful
tattoo lookup result from The Jockey Club’s Tattoo Identification Services,
(located at registry.jockeyclub.com); or
- If neither of the above is available, a letter from The Jockey Club verifying
the horse’s identity.

This is such a cool program! Does anyone know if you have to do anything special when you enter one of these events? Will there be an option for a TIP division? Or will they do an across the board award for best placed OTTB, with appropriate weighting for the levels? Very, very cool concept, however they end up doing it.

Hunting Creek
Jan. 20, 2012, 08:53 AM
Foreign-bred horses would be eligible if they were imported through TJC with the intention to race or be bred here in the US.


We have an Australian OTTB that raced in Hong Kong. While he most certainly is off the track, I assume since he does not have JC registry from this country, then he will not qualify for the awards that the Jockey Club will offer at horse trials. Is this correct?

Hunting Creek
Jan. 20, 2012, 08:58 AM
Each show will vary in the awards they offer based on discipline, but for the eventing folks, the awards are best placed TB's in each division as well as a Young TB award across all divisions for a horse in its 1st or 2nd year of showing. We will have an interactive calendar up soon which will list what awards each show will have.


Per the TIP website:



This is such a cool program! Does anyone know if you have to do anything special when you enter one of these events? Will there be an option for a TIP division? Or will they do an across the board award for best placed OTTB, with appropriate weighting for the levels? Very, very cool concept, however they end up doing it.

faybe
Jan. 20, 2012, 03:37 PM
Each show will vary in the awards they offer based on discipline, but for the eventing folks, the awards are best placed TB's in each division as well as a Young TB award across all divisions for a horse in its 1st or 2nd year of showing. We will have an interactive calendar up soon which will list what awards each show will have.

Great, thanks for the info! I think Jersey is on our spring schedule, and maybe we'll sneak Waredaca in now, too.