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Big_Grey_hunter
Jan. 18, 2012, 12:21 AM
How are the gag actions different for these two types of gags? Not the mouth piece, just the cheek piece. I;m looking at trying some new bits, and most of the gags I find with mouth pieces I like in the size I want have the second type of cheek piece. Do these work the same as the first type (with holes through the rings)?
http://www.horseloverz.com/Metalab-Stainless-steel-Cheltenham-Gag-with--Oval-mouth---Stainless-Steel---5-12-pr-278842.html
http://www.horseloverz.com/Center-Revolver-Loop-Ring-Gag-pr-277377.html

FLeventer
Jan. 18, 2012, 12:42 AM
The second is a wonder bit or a beval bit, whichever name suits you. You are going to get less leverage with that bit then a regular gag with rope or leather cheeks. The wonder gag has a smaller range of motion. It only works to a certin extent, when the mouthpiece hits the top ring, then it stays on max power, which is not as intense as max power on a regular gag, until the horse or the rider releases.

I would start there when starting to use a gag. Then if that doesn't work, the regular gag with leather cheeks and if you still need a quicker response then the regular gag with rope cheeks. Make sure to have two reins on the regular gag. One on the snaffle and one on the cheek piece.

phoebetrainer
Jan. 18, 2012, 04:30 AM
From my training many, many years ago and from ongoing experience since: a cheltenham gag (the traditional kind with rope or leather running through the bit rings) is a mechanical bit which helps to RAISE the horse's head. I have found it expecially useful and effective on horses who gallop with their heads low, leaning on the rider or those who gallop with their necks out in front with noses stuck out (if you can picture that).

On the other hand the beval bit is good for a horse which either sticks its nose straight out in front of it, or raises its head - the bit does seem to help to encourage the horse to drop his head and almost "come into a frame".

Links in the middle tend to also encourage a horse to drop its head onto the bit, to take a contact.

Every horse is different though and other people will have completely opposing views - so in the end, you will have to try both bits and see which one works best for you.

ake987
Jan. 18, 2012, 01:16 PM
Why didn't you just text me?! :) I'm assuming you want the center piece to be revolving, and that's what you're having a hard time finding?

This will have more leverage, but a similar action as the second bit: Center Revolver 2-Ring Gag (http://www.equestriancollections.com/product.asp?ic=ER09691R)

This is closer to what you're looking for, but with full cheeks, and the center revolver is more of a circular rather than oval shape: Rope Gag w/ Roller (http://www.thehorsebitshop.co.uk/product.php?xProd=546&xSec=20)

Now thank you for making me search for bits while I should have been finishing my HOMEWORK! :)

I couldn't find exactly what you're looking for, but maybe you could also try my instant gag on his flat bit?

Big_Grey_hunter
Jan. 18, 2012, 02:06 PM
I see how it is, you won't stalk me in person anymore (*fake sob*), but you're stalking me on coth? :lol:

I'd like something like the bit you use on Jake (this one (http://www.horseloverz.com/Metalab-Stainless-steel-Cheltenham-Gag-with--Oval-mouth---Stainless-Steel---5-12-pr-278842.html)), but it needs to be a five inch (He made it VERY clear he won't accept bigger bits). I'd be okay with trying a french link gag, or preferable a french link with a bean instead of the flat piece, but I can't find very many options in the regular gag, but I'm finding quite a few in the beval gag. HS makes one, but I can't justify spending $150 on a bit without trying it first.

Something like these, but I don't like the elevators (personal preference, never tried one on Wheels).
http://www.horseloverz.com/Metalab-Stainless-Steel-Loop-Ring-Oval-Gag-Bit-pr-388498.html
http://www.smartpakequine.com/korsteel-2-ring-french-elevator-5193p.aspx?cm_vc=Search
http://www.equestriancollections.com/product.asp?groupcode=ER90264

I've tried the instant gag before, but It didn't seem to work as well as the gag bits I tried. I wouldn't mind trying it again though, do you mind if I borrow yours?

WNT
Jan. 19, 2012, 07:38 AM
If you don't mind a flat french link, if you know a shop that carries Jack's Manufacturing, they have a 5" french link eggbutt gag. I got a 5.5" from them and my horse goes very well in it (he fits the "gallop with his head low" model).

PM me if you don't have any luck.

I did not have much luck with my horse in the beval bit, it works more like a mild two/three ring than a traditional gag bit.