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RunningRedLights
Jan. 8, 2012, 01:50 PM
I am an eventing newbie looking to finally venture out to some shows and horse trials this year! I am concerned about the legality of my bit in the dressage phase. I ride my mare in a Sprenger Duo 3 ring, with the reins on the snaffle setting (big ring). I picked up the bit for a steal of a price, hence the elevator part being available, but not used. Will I need to cough up the $75 to buy a regular Duo?

Here is a picture to help:

http://www.horsebitbank.com/productimages/41303-sprenger-duo-continental-3_1.jpg

Far_North_Equestrian
Jan. 8, 2012, 02:02 PM
Short answer, Yes.

Long answer: there are specific legal cheeks for dressage, and the only one that is not a "normal" snaffle style that is still allowed is the Baucher, which would have similar action to the "snaffle setting" on a bubble bit. Don't know if the Duo comes with a Baucher cheek though.

deltawave
Jan. 8, 2012, 02:57 PM
Not legal for dressage. Plenty of options in a plastic, mullen mouth bit, however.

phoebetrainer
Jan. 9, 2012, 04:57 AM
Before you go to buy your new bit, look up the US eventing rules online, down load a copy or just print off the pages that are relevant to your query.

Its all set out really clearly. If you are planning to event, you really need to read the rules first anyway.

Don't know about national level eventing in the US, but for national and FEI level here, break the rules and you get eliminated. Not great when you've out so much time, effort and money into something. It may be that no one will notice that you have an illegal bit while you're warming in, but the judge notices when you're in the arena and rings the bell, or following dressage you have a bit inspection. Then you're loading your horse up and heading home :yes:.

RunningRedLights
Jan. 9, 2012, 07:06 AM
phoebe, I have checked out the rules and did not get a good answer which is why I am coming here.

The rules say that elevator are illegal, mullens are legal as long as they are smooth, the plastic is legal, and the baucher is legal.

I feel like using this bit on the snaffle ring is a bit muddy. I thought it would work similarly to a mullen baucher. I think I need to contact someone from the USEF and ask.

deltawave
Jan. 9, 2012, 07:11 AM
You could always have somebody lop off the lower rings, leaving you with a snaffle bit that would not be illegal. :)

scubed
Jan. 9, 2012, 08:03 AM
You don't really need to ask. It is not legal at recognized competition. See Appendix 4 for the full list of legal mouthpieces and legal cheeks. You can use combinations of legal cheeks and legal mouthpieces, but you can not use an elevator, even on the "snaffle setting"

You might be able to get away with it at a smaller unrecognized competition if you talk with the ground jury first, but really just go buy (or borrow) a legal snaffle.

The Nathe or Sprenger run about $75. You can often find them on ebay for less. The Korsteel has a little bump, but is much less expensive http://www.amazon.com/Korsteel-Flexi-Flavored-Mullen-Eggbutt/dp/B002HUYKZW

Happy mouth even more bumpy: http://www.doversaddlery.com/HAPPY+MOUTH+MULLEN+LOOSE+RING/p/X1-010032/

Nylon here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nylon-Mullen-Mouth-Snaffle-Brass/dp/B005DR2UEY

deltawave
Jan. 9, 2012, 08:32 AM
You could always have somebody lop off the lower rings, leaving you with a snaffle bit that would not be illegal. :)

There is nothing "muddy" about the rule. That bit is illegal.

ETA, whoops, didn't mean to quote my own post. :lol: Just telling you, to spare you a phone call and a waste of your time, you're not going to get a "yes" from USEA, USEF, or anyone else. Really. :)

wildlifer
Jan. 9, 2012, 08:59 AM
The others are correct -- an elevator cheek is illegal in dressage. No matter what ring you put your reins on. End of story.

RAyers
Jan. 9, 2012, 09:48 AM
I used a 3-ring duo one on my old guy for XC. I bought a Sprenger loose ring for dressage.

Janet
Jan. 9, 2012, 10:11 AM
phoebe, I have checked out the rules and did not get a good answer which is why I am coming here.

The rules say that elevator are illegal, mullens are legal as long as they are smooth, the plastic is legal, and the baucher is legal.

I will reiterate that this is NOT legal.

Sometimes it is a little hard to tell the legality of a specific bit, but it is pretty clear in this case. The rules say

Any of the rings or cheeks shown on these plates is permitted with any of the bits.

None of the "rings or cheecks" shown look the faintest bit like the rings of an elevator.

Yes, with the reins on the snaffle ring it FUNCTIONS like a Baucher, but that does not make it legal.

Even if you sawed off the bottom rings, it still would not look like anything shown.

deltawave
Jan. 9, 2012, 11:33 AM
Yes, let me apologize for and amend my "saw off the rings" comment. I failed to notice the extra little hanging ring on the 3-ring bit, which would render it non-kosher. Sorry! :uhoh:

You would have to saw off that one, too. And frankly, I would just go buy a baby bit in a loose-ring mullen mouth before getting out the hacksaw. :lol:

RunningRedLights
Jan. 9, 2012, 06:32 PM
You don't really need to ask. It is not legal at recognized competition. See Appendix 4 for the full list of legal mouthpieces and legal cheeks. You can use combinations of legal cheeks and legal mouthpieces, but you can not use an elevator, even on the "snaffle setting"

You might be able to get away with it at a smaller unrecognized competition if you talk with the ground jury first, but really just go buy (or borrow) a legal snaffle.

The Nathe or Sprenger run about $75. You can often find them on ebay for less. The Korsteel has a little bump, but is much less expensive http://www.amazon.com/Korsteel-Flexi-Flavored-Mullen-Eggbutt/dp/B002HUYKZW

Happy mouth even more bumpy: http://www.doversaddlery.com/HAPPY+MOUTH+MULLEN+LOOSE+RING/p/X1-010032/

Nylon here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nylon-Mullen-Mouth-Snaffle-Brass/dp/B005DR2UEY


I believe that the Korsteel and the Happy Mouth are illegal. The rubber has to be smooth.

I have the elevator style because I could not find the Nathe or Duo on ebay in the size I need. The elevator was in a local tack shop at 40% so I grabbed that guy quick!

Thanks for the opinions guys!

faybe
Jan. 9, 2012, 06:42 PM
I believe that the Korsteel and the Happy Mouth are illegal. The rubber has to be smooth.

I have the elevator style because I could not find the Nathe or Duo on ebay in the size I need. The elevator was in a local tack shop at 40% so I grabbed that guy quick!

Thanks for the opinions guys!

No, all the bits scubed listed are legal (she should know, she's a licensed TD ;)). The wording of the rule allows "rounded" mouthpieces like that, and happy mouths are legal.

RunningRedLights
Jan. 9, 2012, 06:58 PM
I see the Happy Mouth now in the rules, #13 (correct?) in the eventing rule book.

I was looking at the USEF Dressage rule book.

faybe
Jan. 9, 2012, 07:23 PM
:yes: Yep, #13.

yellowbritches
Jan. 9, 2012, 07:46 PM
I believe that the Korsteel and the Happy Mouth are illegal. The rubber has to be smooth.

I have the elevator style because I could not find the Nathe or Duo on ebay in the size I need. The elevator was in a local tack shop at 40% so I grabbed that guy quick!

Thanks for the opinions guys!
I am hardly as knowledgeable as scubed and Janet, but if a straight bar Happy mouth was illegal...well, then I have broken rules and gotten away with it (with the help of many a bit checker) a whole bunch.

Hack off the rings or go shopping. I have had rings hacked off before (usually on pelhams). Before Happy Mouth started making bouchers, we made our own.