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Hiwaythreetwenty
Jan. 3, 2012, 05:42 PM
Meet Officer Frank my new 6 year old ottb gelding that I will be bringing home soon. He has raced for 6 years and has stayed sound, I have had contact with his previous exercise rider who said he is well trained was started with slow hacks and long gallops around a farm in Kentucky. He is full of personality and has an excellent work ethic. I am hoping to take him up the levels in eventing. I like to event for fun and am happy to go to an event once a month. What do you think of him.
http://www.facebook.com/#!/media/set/?set=a.1975020821575.118523.1424713610&type=3

http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=2898778514940&set=a.1975020821575.118523.1424713610&type=3&theater

Lori B
Jan. 3, 2012, 06:00 PM
Can't see the photo. Please adjust your facebook settings, or paste the public version of the link.

Meredith Clark
Jan. 3, 2012, 06:48 PM
wow he came out of the womb racing???

sorry I couldn't help it :winkgrin:

Hiwaythreetwenty
Jan. 3, 2012, 06:55 PM
Here is my second attempt at the pictures and the video

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1975020821575.118523.1424713610&type=3#!/photo.php?fbid=2898778514940&set=a.1975020821575.118523.1424713610&type=3&theater

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2898733473814&set=a.1975020821575.118523.1424713610&type=3&theater

and video
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2898733473814&set=a.1975020821575.118523.1424713610&type=3&theater#!/photo.php?v=2908924688588

Let me know if it works

jen-s
Jan. 3, 2012, 08:26 PM
He's a cutie! Good luck with him!

Cruiser12
Jan. 3, 2012, 08:50 PM
He's cute, but how long did he race?

Xctrygirl
Jan. 3, 2012, 09:08 PM
Better yet, what was the cause of the 8.5 month layup before he returned this fall?

~Emily

judybigredpony
Jan. 3, 2012, 10:24 PM
:yes:
Better yet, what was the cause of the 8.5 month layup before he returned this fall?

~Emily::yes::eek::yes:

Hiwaythreetwenty
Jan. 3, 2012, 11:13 PM
wow he came out of the womb racing???

sorry I couldn't help it :winkgrin:

lol, yeah apparently my brain and my fingers didn't not get along, he raced for 4 years. I can do my math i promise.

As for the gap from Dec. 2010 racing to Aug. 2011 I am emailing his previous trainer Chris Dorris to find out. When I emailed him earlier he stated that he never had soundness issues with him during the time that he owned him. The exercise rider who worked with him when he was with the French trainer stated they do lots of long hacks and slow gallops. I had noticed his lack of running as a youth and asked about it but I missed the 2010-2011 one, thanks for pointing it out.

judybigredpony
Jan. 4, 2012, 07:21 AM
Yes 2 starts @ 2 isn't so unusual but 8 months off then 1 start @ 3 and another 8 months off isn't a good sign...but afterwards he ran steady for 2 years so who knows. Maybe chips or wind surgery or cracked shin??

Hiwaythreetwenty
Jan. 4, 2012, 07:49 AM
Alright I have answers. His lightly raced 3 year old season is due to the owners had paid a lot for him and he was as good as they hoped. The most recent break was that Mr. Dorris had run him pretty bard since he claimed him and simply gave him a break. Frank was his big success and gave him his name so he wanted to treat him right. No surgeries nor lameness issues.

Xctrygirl
Jan. 4, 2012, 08:14 AM
Look,

I am all about trainers who treat their horses right...

But having worked as an Assistant on the backside, I have to say what you were told massively trips my "BS" meter.

We had a "big" horse in the barn. And his "breaks" from racing were mostly due to being nqr or a problem. Only one was for a rest.

And in the other barns where I have been an assistant it was pretty much the same policy. But especially at the cheap tracks, this kind of 8 month "rest" would be outside the norm.

If you're gonna do any serious amount of jumping and load work on this guy I'd check him over before you invest your heart and wallet.

Good luck.

~Emily


Ps: He's 7 not 6. Born in 2005.

MightyBobbyMagee
Jan. 4, 2012, 08:37 AM
Did you do a PPE on him yet?

judybigredpony
Jan. 4, 2012, 08:52 AM
SALE YEAR 2007:

Officer Frank, 2005, c by Officer
TOP BID PRICE SALE CODE/MONTH YEAR SALE TYPE SEA/SH HIP NO.
$80,000 RNA OBS APR 2007 2YO 98

SALE AVERAGE: $28,878 SALE MEDIAN: $17,000

CONSIGNOR : Omega Farm, agent


Its awefully expensive to let a horse sit around unless its a
G1 stakes horse who has either stud potential or a career that earns alot of $$ in few starts....Do get some rads and a scope...

Hiwaythreetwenty
Jan. 4, 2012, 08:57 AM
I understand that you need to watch what people tell you and beware of the bs. Not every trainer is the same. But I am not buying him from his previous trainer so he has nothing to gain by lying to me. Also I have spoke to his exercise rider who rode him for his orginal owner and her story is the same as the other trainer and this particular trainer is well known for his compassion for horses. Frank got him started and he had gotten other horses in that allowed him to give him a break. And yes he is 7 now a month ago he was 6. the trainer I am buying him off I have worked with in the past and has an excellent reputation as well. Trust me I was orginally leary of an older one,but I have ridden with Steuart Pittman who is a huge advocate for ottb and have consulted with him on his thoughts. Frank past the flex test and as I said I saw him not long after his last race, watched him come out of his stall and he never misstepped once. I am an adult amateur who simply enjoys to event while I would love to reach prel or interm I am more for giving a ottb a good home and a new job. I am picking him up for cheap enough that if he ends up only being a trail /pleasure horse that is fine. I would much rather prefer to own a horse with personality and heart then one that fits all the perfect bill. He is sound and I feel confident in that.

purplnurpl
Jan. 4, 2012, 09:02 AM
do a thorough PPE with X Rays.
Especially of his front ankles.

His neck ties in quite low, his back is a bit long, his front legs are a big wonky and he has a very common head.

all of that in a big horse may be rough.

leahandpie
Jan. 4, 2012, 09:14 AM
I'm really glad you got the horse!! It sounds like whatever comes up with him soundness-wise, he's got a great home with you.

Even with exams and xrays, you still never know 100% whether the horse will stay sound for X activity. I got my boy for so cheap, it didn't make sense to do a pre-purchase. He ended up with an injury that an exam would have missed anyways.

He looks like an awesome horse & good luck with him!

Xctrygirl
Jan. 4, 2012, 09:14 AM
Hiway,

Let me be a little clearer.

I am not against you giving this horse a great home, quite the contrary. But I do believe that a knowledgable backside worker, like myself, should mention to an adult amateur when the stories you're being fed sound suspicious at best.

Whatever job he has he will cost money. And I know how much a healthy and fully capable sound guy can cost. Anything less than that will go up.

It's the job of the people who buy OTTB's to know going in what they have and can handle. It sounds like you will keep him regardless, so that's great. Just have your eyes open and be wary of any issues that may arise. Mountaineer has a rough track surface reputation and very lenient drug rules. Many horses can look immaculate after their races as they were pre-raced with Bute and banamine. (Common protocol at many tracks)

It's the 2 weeks -3 months later where you actually know what you have.

Good Luck.


~Emily

event1
Jan. 4, 2012, 10:24 AM
HW320...aren't you glad you asked...NOT-geez. If you like him-take him home and enjoy him and see where it goes. If he ends up as just a trail horse and you are aware that that could happen..it sounds like you are willing to go with that. You could buy a horse that vets perfect and they could be a pasture ornament the next day too! Yeah for you wanting to at least give him a shot!:yes:

Heinz 57
Jan. 4, 2012, 10:51 AM
I am an adult amateur who simply enjoys to event while I would love to reach prel or interm I am more for giving a ottb a good home and a new job. I am picking him up for cheap enough that if he ends up only being a trail /pleasure horse that is fine. I would much rather prefer to own a horse with personality and heart then one that fits all the perfect bill.

That's not what you stated on your FB in the comments of the picture of Frank. You said you wanted to go UL, but if he doesn't make it you have no problem selling him on.


HW320...aren't you glad you asked...NOT-geez.

No reason to be snarky. As hard as it may be to hear, I'm pretty sure Xctrygirl is just trying to give the OP a heads up in the interest of...well, her best interest. He's cute, doesn't necessarily scream "Future Upper Level Horse", but then again, you won't know til you get there.

Bogie
Jan. 4, 2012, 11:00 AM
IMHO it is MUCH better to understand what you are getting into before you bring a horse home.

The first time I got a TB he was free. He was very well bred and had never started. I spoke to his trainer and their vet and they gave me an optimistic view of his potential. I did not do a PPE based on my discussions with them and his non-existent price. He had a puppy dog personality.

Later on, when he proved to be not sound enough to compete even at the lower levels, someone looked me in the eye and said, "the stud fee on that horse was more than $75K, don't you think they tried everything legal to make him run?"

I rehomed him to a girl who wanted to trail ride. I was lucky. I learned a lot from the experience and it didn't cost me that much. Plus, the horse ended up in a suitable home.

I became a much more educated consumer after that experience and definitely study racing records and layups now.

My current OTTB was retired from the track due to an injury but his previous owners were completely up front about it and offered to share his medical records. I adopted him through CANTER and had a very thorough picture of him before I took him on (I also fostered him for several months).

Xctrygirl
Jan. 4, 2012, 11:06 AM
Heinz has it right. I am trying to shed a backsider's thoughts on what's been passed on from other backsiders.

Also, when a thread title includes "What are your thoughts?" everyone who has been here should know to expect all manner of replies. Hell consider ourselves lucky that (so far) no one has suggested some Parelli training or better yet a Gypsy Vanner alternative ::eek::. :D


~Emily

Lori B
Jan. 4, 2012, 11:12 AM
If you are looking for answers that are solely an uncritical 'atta girl', CoTH is not the place to ask.

It is easy to fall in love with a sweet face and a soft nose. But whichever horse you choose is going to cost a lot of money and time and effort even if things go fantastically perfectly well, with no veterinary woes. So it is worth the time to try not to fall in love instantly and to be PICKY. You will thank xctrygirl, really.

Hiwaythreetwenty
Jan. 4, 2012, 11:40 AM
When I said I would like to do upper level I meant at most intermediate, I have no desire to travel the country and compete I want to have fun. Yes, if he turns out to be a great pony club mount and nothing more then yes I will sell him, if he ends up being a trail horse fine to, he has earned his right to be retired. I do appreciate the warning I am not a first timer going to the track. I have purchased a horse from the same owner trainer combo before and she was great. The owner loves his horses and stated that if I sell one bad one it ruins his rep and he has a list of good home buyers that he sells his horses to. I am aware of mountaineers rep which is why I deal with these people only they have always been up front with me. I believe that any horse that is still training and racing happily like Frank is something to consider. And the way you make it seem that all track people are narcissitic liars that sort of makes you in the same catergory if you claim to be track people. I have been around horses my whole life, I research everything before I do anything. I have seen nicely put together horses be absolutely worthless because they lack a work ethic or willingness. I have also seen these horses be the injuried pron horses in the world. So it is a horse a piece, i'l, know more of what I have when I start working him in the spring.

3phase
Jan. 4, 2012, 12:02 PM
I agree with everyone that letting you know to beware is just to save you hastle down the road. No horse is ever FREE! I just recently aquired a 2005 ottb myself that is sound but boy does he have a lot more other issues that were not brought forward. I asked the previous owner about vices (she mentioned none)-well turns out he cribs (I can live with that.) She told me he was allergic to just Timothy, so I got him local grass hay. All good there, except that he's allergic to a lot more things then just hay (ulcers too)-so poor guy, in between giving him Dex (which I hate doing but seems to be the only thing that's taking the hives down) and now trying him on antihistamines, minusing everything else out of his diet he still gets major hives every couple days. Not life threatening but not great to look at. My concern down the road is putting him on something that helps him without testing. So although I'm sure I'll be able to work with this problem, definitely buyer beware.
I hope he works out for you-sounds like he's in a good home :)

Heinz 57
Jan. 4, 2012, 01:52 PM
And the way you make it seem that all track people are narcissitic liars that sort of makes you in the same catergory if you claim to be track people.

Please don't call Xctrygirl a narcissistic liar. Rude and uncalled for would be an understatement; you asked for opinions, and you got some VERY qualified, FREE advice. The kind of advice people pay (eventing) trainers to give them.

I'm sorry you didn't like it.

On the other hand, I have a 13-going-14 (actual b-day in April) TB that raced til six with 42 starts. Not a bump on him, and aside from some minor creaks from being a BIG guy and of a matured age, is sound and happy. He was free. Starved nearly to death, but free nonetheless.

It's always a roll of the dice. It's up to you to make sure they aren't loaded.

SEPowell
Jan. 4, 2012, 02:07 PM
Enjoy your new ottb. I think you have a wonderful attitude about him and it sounds like you'll give him a fair chance at a good life.

I tend to be more into the life and training of each ottb I get because regardless of that horse's talent or lack of talent, each has something to teach me. Sometimes it's about riding, sometimes it's about management, sometimes it's about compassion, sometimes it's about how a horse reaches out to me. There is always something extraordinary to learn from any horse and I'm sure one day this horse will give you that feeling of awe as you realize something new about the relationship you have with horses.

Competition is great, but in my mind it's much more important to approach a horse's training with the goal of training the horse well. It's just a bad idea to approach a horse with the goal of him getting you to to a specific level of competition. So good for you for approaching this horse with your eyes wide open to his needs and with the flexibility to accomodate them.

lv4running
Jan. 4, 2012, 02:34 PM
you asked for opinions, and you got some VERY qualified, FREE advice. The kind of advice people pay (eventing) trainers to give them.

AMEN. The attitude displayed by the OP is why I don't comment on these threads. I feel like so many people use this as a way to introduce their new horse, and they really don't WANT an opinion. I don't know why they can't simply write, "Here's my new horse. I am thrilled to have him. Positive comments only please." Be upfront instead of taking the comments as a personal attack on your horse buying knowledge. Honestly, I think if you say anything other than "Great choice! I wish I had bought him first!" some people seem to think you are attacking their decision and their egos can't handle that.

Cindi

bornfreenowexpensive
Jan. 4, 2012, 03:17 PM
Aside from the comments about his race record.....just based on the pictures and pedigree I do like him.

Pictures are hard to tell but I like his low hocks, pleasant eye. I think when he builds a top line he will be attractive. I do not think his back is too long. It looks about right to me for a horse that I want to gallop and jump.

I'd want to see him move. But love his pedigree. I would expect him to be a very good jumper and nice enough mover based on pedigree.....but hard to tell based on the pictures posted. Things I like and dislike in the pictures posted but nothing that would stop me from going to look at him.

Of course the biggest issue is whether he stays sound and whether he has a good brain. And that you can't tell based on pedigree or pictures... Good luck with him!

lizathenag
Jan. 4, 2012, 03:33 PM
Ok not exactly. My guy is by Bertrando (Officer's sire). His photo is my profile pic. It is from a De Kunffy clinic a few years ago.

He is a rock star. And has the same star.

When I first got him he jumped out of the pasture over the wire fence.

He is almost 16. More than once I was told he was "not the ride for an amateur".
My understanding I was being told a pro could take him far. That was not to be his path.

Well, he went (and continues to go) as far as I want. I took him off the track 10 years ago.

He has very thin walls and shark fin withers. He comes when he sees my car drive up and whinnys when I walk into the barn if he is in his stall.


I plan to do my century ride with him in twelve years when he is 28 and I am 72.

Feel free to message me and we can chat if you like.

Hiwaythreetwenty
Jan. 4, 2012, 05:32 PM
To clarify I am not calling xcrtygirl a narcisstic liar, I am simply expresing how it was sounding more and more like all trainers are jerks and you can't trust any of them for every question that was proposed I investigated by asking questions. Prior to posting I did contact his previous owners/trainers to get answers. I do appreciate the concern and the points brought up but to continue to state that I was not talking to good people and lack the ability to judge charaters was rough. I take everything said to a grain of salt. I simply want to know what you think of the horse not how I am acquiring him. If you find him to be an ugly nag of a thing that is ok everyone is entitled to an opinion because at the end of the day he is my horse and as long as I love him that is what matters. Thank you to everyone for all their comments and concerns.

ChelsaeJo
Jan. 4, 2012, 09:27 PM
Originally Posted by Heinz 57
you asked for opinions, and you got some VERY qualified, FREE advice. The kind of advice people pay (eventing) trainers to give them.

AMEN. The attitude displayed by the OP is why I don't comment on these threads. I feel like so many people use this as a way to introduce their new horse, and they really don't WANT an opinion. I don't know why they can't simply write, "Here's my new horse. I am thrilled to have him. Positive comments only please." Be upfront instead of taking the comments as a personal attack on your horse buying knowledge. Honestly, I think if you say anything other than "Great choice! I wish I had bought him first!" some people seem to think you are attacking their decision and their egos can't handle that.

Cindi

I wasn't going to comment on this thread, but had too.

I recently posted a thread about buying a new horse and I'm SO thankful for everyone's HONEST opinions. Because of their honesty I decided to NOT buy the horse I was looking at because she's probably not going to go very far in eventing. People that take offense to what other (maybe more experiences, but even if they aren't, I'd take their word because I'm always blinded by the shiny new horse that I sometimes don't look harder then just behind the surface..) people say, and then those people stop giving help to the people they need it because it's not worth it.

IMO if you ask for advice/thoughts, then don't argue with them.

Hiwaythreetwenty
Jan. 4, 2012, 11:01 PM
Enjoy your new ottb. I think you have a wonderful attitude about him and it sounds like you'll give him a fair chance at a good life.

I tend to be more into the life and training of each ottb I get because regardless of that horse's talent or lack of talent, each has something to teach me. Sometimes it's about riding, sometimes it's about management, sometimes it's about compassion, sometimes it's about how a horse reaches out to me. There is always something extraordinary to learn from any horse and I'm sure one day this horse will give you that feeling of awe as you realize something new about the relationship you have with horses.

Competition is great, but in my mind it's much more important to approach a horse's training with the goal of training the horse well. It's just a bad idea to approach a horse with the goal of him getting you to to a specific level of competition. So good for you for approaching this horse with your eyes wide open to his needs and with the flexibility to accomodate them.

Well said, that is what loving horses is all about and my passion for TB has only grown over the years. I see you deal with fingerlakes, a friend of mine just got a horse from up there, Teut.

SEPowell
Jan. 5, 2012, 08:12 AM
Well said, that is what loving horses is all about and my passion for TB has only grown over the years. I see you deal with fingerlakes, a friend of mine just got a horse from up there, Teut.

Teutonic Knight? :) Very nice horse coming from a super trainer. They were a good match and last I heard she loves him to death.

Through my work at Finger Lakes I know a lot of horses at that track. After bringing them up on this board I've seen potential buyers back away from good horses because of comments made about the horse based only on pictures and pps. I've seen good horses skipped over because of potential lamenesses, bitting problems, etc. that were totally created on this board. I'm surprized at the number of people who take these possibilities so seriously; a response to a picture or pp is very subjective and does not necessarily translate into reality. It makes much more sense to start with the horse, discuss questions of soundness with his trainers and then confirm their answers with xrays.

ake987
Jan. 5, 2012, 11:35 AM
SEPowell - I don't think anyone's intention was to make the OP pass on the horse, but to provide her with "their thoughts", which is what she asked for in the subject. :)

Look, I bought my OTTB from Finger Lakes two years ago and I did not do my homework. I should never have bought that horse! He was completely wrong for me, I did not do a thorough enough PPE (please, for the love of all that is good, GET LEG AND BACK RADS!) and my savings account has been drained to keep this horse happy, healthy, and sound. I do not regret it, not one bit - but I was fortunate in that I switched trainers and surrounded myself with people much more educated than myself who were able to guide me through the process of retraining a 4yo OTTB into an eventer.

I could not love my horse more, or be happier with his progress and how far we have both come. But I am pretty sure that the experience has shaved a few years off my life in stress and bills. ;) Other posters were just trying to offer helpful points, ie: Q: Hey, why'd the horse get so much time off? A: His trainer gave him a break - OK - if you trust the trainer, end of story. If not, maybe time to do some further research. OP said she trusted the trainer, so at that point, cool - take your horse home!

Retraining an OTTB is not for everyone, but for those who are prepared for and informed on the process are in for a wildly rewarding experience. But you *must* be prepared and collect as much (accurate and truthful) information as you can, for the sake of your own sanity, and the sake of the horse.

Good luck with your new boy, OP. I posted a few threads that I did not like the responses to, but a lot of them forced me to open my eyes to see what was in front of me, not just what I wanted to see or wanted to hear. I owe a few COTHers a lot of gratitude for the advice they gave me that has helped shape my horse and I into the individuals that we are today.

bornfreenowexpensive
Jan. 5, 2012, 11:48 AM
I think part of the problem is that a few posters are overstating a point.

Yes...people lie. NOT just race trainers.

It is helpful to point out that a break in a horse's record is a red flag. SOMEpeople would walk away. Others, will not. There isn't a right or wrong answer and once that "red flag" is posted.....well, it doesn't need to be gone over and over again. I think that is where people here on COTH can get to be a bit too much.


I know that some of the posters on this thread would have walked away from a mare I recently bought. She had 4 starts in 4 months as a 4 year old ...won two (mostly over 8 furlongs--she won at a mile and 1 1/16)...and then sat in a field for 2 years. She is decently bred--more turf/distance. I asked why she stopped racing because that IS a red flag...most do not wait so long to race (though she is big) and most do not stop racing after two wins...not without typically a physical reason.

I was told it was because the owners have been in a divorce (her breeders owned her and had raced her).

Do I believe them....could be. Very plausible....but in the end, I don't really care. I looked at the horse in front of me and did a pretty extensive PPE (including xrays and scoping).

So I KNOW some of the posters here would warn me off her etc. But you know....she's lovely and one of the nicest prospects I've had in a while.

In the end, flags can be raised about ANY horse....and a buyer needs to know what is important to them and how much risk they are willing to take.

Heinz 57
Jan. 5, 2012, 12:23 PM
Do I believe them....could be. Very plausible....but in the end, I don't really care. I looked at the horse in front of me and did a pretty extensive PPE (including xrays and scoping).


Did I miss that the OP did (or is doing?) a PPE/xrays? Maybe she just didn't mention it, but if I were in her shoes I'd feel a heck of a lot better about the long breaks if I had a thorough PPE to work with (notice I did not say clean :winkgrin:).

Due to type of horses/sellers I generally deal with - I've actually NEVER done a PPE. It came back to bite me on my very first horse (an OTTB). I took the word of the owners and didn't know enough to contact the trainer. I chose to retire him after three years, at age 8, due to a ligament injury with a soft "maybe" on whether or not he'd recover fully and return to serious work. He had a chip in the opposite knee. He colicked last year at age 11 and had to be euthanized.

OP, I wish you the best and hope for a long life of soundness and success for your new horse!

Xctrygirl
Jan. 5, 2012, 12:53 PM
In the end, flags can be raised about ANY horse....and a buyer needs to know what is important to them and how much risk they are willing to take.

THAT was my point.

Fyi, I have seen horses miss months of training/running due to the following:

A skin disease no one understood...ever. Pics here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/xctrygirl/sets/72157602288020681/

Ongoing abscesses in 3 feet....first LF then RH, then RF. Missed 8 months.

An owner that wanted to bring their new claim home to their farm to "Bond" before asking him to run for them. (LOL.. not ours but so didn't work out :lol:... after "bonding" on the farm the horse decided it much preferred the grass you eat to the kind you run on!)

Impaled on a stake outside a barn (5 months off)

Colic of course. And all sorts of stuff.

All sorts of stuff can take a horse out of running actively.

Hell I got one myself a few years ago who in his youth had came off the track and on a old style hotwalker machine got caught in his hind leg and was hung upside down for a few mins on a chain, thus hurting his hind leg. He was a great eventer but had a bum knee and couldn't hold up. That was a freebie who had stood in a field for 6 years after the walker incident until someone realized he was sound again. And his hind leg never bothered him.

All I say is do your homework. That can be with a vet, without a vet, speak to the connections, etc. And in the end as Jimmy says, you gotta like the head hanging over the door looking back at you. (B/c God knows that critter is gonna make you pay)

I adore Lad. He had 3 xray views done, of his one osselet. And from then on I refuse to allow a xray machine near him. (If he doesn't know there's an issue, then neither do I. I would of course investigate if there were a reason to) He does as much as I have ever asked and that's why I adore him.

It's your money and your risk, and the only person who can make that call is you. As others have said I am just offering points to consider as you weigh that decision.


~Emily

Hiwaythreetwenty
Jan. 5, 2012, 12:54 PM
SEPowell: yes my friend absolutely loves Teut and a couple of my other friends have purchased tb this past fall and we look forward to sharing stories.

Ake987 and bornfreenowexpensive: you have covered the points I was trying to state. They have gone on about the same thing over and over it is time to move on. Yes I asked your thoughts on the horse not to get drilled. It is my decision what I decide to do in regards to a ppe. It is not that I don't appreciate the tips and comments but I have answered the questions and I am the one who has to deal with the consequences if I take the word of people that I chose to. I had a beautiful ottb mare that I loved dearly for two year. I got her when she was four and never did anything more then a flex test (that was the only handling I did). I recieved a email the following week offering her for much less as they couldn't afford to keep her due to a poor racing year and she was just not fast enough. She was never unsound a day in her life until the fluke pasture accident when she cut her hoof clear to her coffin bone and I had to make the tough decision to put her down verses allowing her to live a life as anything less then a horse. I have seen some crazy crap happen and I am aware of all that can happen whether a horse is sound or not sound. My beliefs are that, you want me to respect yours then please do the same for me. I let the horse speak for itself. I simply wanted outsiders opinions on my gelding, whether you like him or not didn't matter. Looking at his pictures what do you see conformationally. The picture will never show what I saw with my own two eyes. Yes you always risk buying a horse that isn't right - that can happen whether you purchase off the track or from another buyer. A horse can be perfectly sound one day and then the next run around in a pasture and be lame for life the next. This is call horse ownership you never know what you are getting into. I can look at a thousand horses, and my gut has always treated me well when I pick one. So regardless of his race record what does one think of my horse - which was the question, not how do I pick a horse off the track and what do I need to be aware off.

Thank you all.

halo
Jan. 5, 2012, 01:28 PM
Being as theres always about 15 sides to every story, I am also a trainer and an owner. Right now my fields and full up with race horses of mine on layup. Not because they are hurt, but because they ran hard all year, and I give them all 2-3 months off this time of year, to get them ready to run next summer. By the time they get back to the races, it could be a 5-6 month gap in their pps. A lot of people treat their horses this way, since sooner or later a horse will require down time, whether you just give it to them, or if they force you to give it to them. I prefer not to wait for the forced down time, if I can help it.

Many people racing homebreds up north will run during their meet, and give their horses time off until the meet starts up again.

So dont paint all trainers with the same broad brush. Gaps in pps dont always mean injuries. Not always.

DiablosHalo
Jan. 5, 2012, 01:50 PM
THAT was my point.

All I say is do your homework. That can be with a vet, without a vet, speak to the connections, etc. And in the end as Jimmy says, you gotta like the head hanging over the door looking back at you. (B/c God knows that critter is gonna make you pay)

~Emily

She did do her homework. She talked to the connections. And you told her they were all liars.

Beam Me Up
Jan. 5, 2012, 02:05 PM
Yes...people lie. NOT just race trainers.

It is helpful to point out that a break in a horse's record is a red flag. SOMEpeople would walk away. Others, will not. There isn't a right or wrong answer and once that "red flag" is posted.....well, it doesn't need to be gone over and over again.

I agree with this. There are some wise cautions on this thread, but I would hate to see every "look at my cute new OTTB" thread turn into a red flags on race record discussion.

FWIW from what I gather on the racing board, the trainer of this horse is an active COTHER with a good reputation in rehoming OTTBs. I would also consider a horse that returns from a break (even if it were injury related) to race and retire sound, a lesser red flag than one that cannot return.

SEPowell
Jan. 5, 2012, 02:32 PM
I believe most comments on this board are well intentioned and many, many of them are well informed. However, I do agree with bfne, they can be overstated at times and this can become a bit overwhelming for a new poster.

But I'd rather see a person become overwhelmed and skeptical than choose to use opinions expressed on an internet board to rule out a horse. Basing decisions on internet opinions is like drawing conclusions from secondary sources. Your primary sources of information are the horse, your dialogue with the trainers' of the horse, vet records, and vet work you have done on the horse and your understanding of what you want and need. Those are your primary sources and those should govern your decisions. It always makes me sad when I see a Canter Cutie or a Finger Lakes Finest lose a potential home because a bunch of "secondary sources" think the horse might become unsound or be unsuitable for one speculative reason or another.

Secondary sources are good for developing strategies to look at horses, but IMO they really shouldn't be used to rule out a horse.

Meredith Clark
Jan. 5, 2012, 02:35 PM
lol, yeah apparently my brain and my fingers didn't not get along, he raced for 4 years. I can do my math i promise.



I was totally just teasing you, and I wouldn't have if I had realized what sort of a sh!t show this thread would become.

Good luck with your horse, and for my input, I have a gelding who had many months off due to a suspensory. He was not a stakes horse, he never even won a race! However his trainer still put the money into laying him up and letting him recover. He went back to racing and STILL never won a race.. that's why I have him :lol:

He's never been unsound with me and he's the best horse I could ever ask for!!

Good luck again!!

Jleegriffith
Jan. 5, 2012, 02:54 PM
We had a horse donated to CANTER this year that had a weird race record. Ran his first race and was dead last. Didn't run again until 9 months later. Ran 3 more race and then 2yrs later came back to the track to run one more race. I knew the trainer that had the horse and he told me he got a new client and the client wanted him to "try" this horse again. The horse had just been living out on the farm and there was nothing wrong with him but he figured if the owner wanted him to try again then he would. Trainer told me the horse couldn't outrun a fat man so he ran him once just to prove his case and called us. I had never even seen the horse in person but they assured me he was sound and pretty so CANTER took him. I picked him up at the track and turned him out right away. He walked straight into a field full of horses and put his head down to eat. No running just green grass happy. He had clean x-rays and was about the quietest horse you could hope for. I may have not taken him if I hadn't know the trainer.
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3157/5720336548_afc4df8cb9.jpg
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2739/5720332698_9f70e4e931.jpg

I guess I don't get too worried about the small stuff. No matter how much you know about a horse they can hurt themselves the very next day. Horses are a gamble so if you can't afford the risk then obviously it may not be the right sport for you.

Halo- my favorite trainers believe in resting their horses so as long as I know why the gaps are there in the record I don't worry. Very easy to pull up a free race history on equibase and go through each race to look for consistency and any potential problems.

Erin Pittman
Jan. 5, 2012, 03:13 PM
Nice looking horse, Jlee!!!

Meredith Clark
Jan. 5, 2012, 03:14 PM
Halo- my favorite trainers believe in resting their horses so as long as I know why the gaps are there in the record I don't worry. .

:yes: