Webdesigners Extraordinaire...where are you?

[Reg Corkum]

I am hoping to this year develop a Class A website, and would like some views and suggestions on where and who I might consider approaching regarding this matter.

I am not in a rush, and I want it to be very very nice. Tasteful, organized, efficent and very very visual.

I have a site now which to me is somewhat amateur and not really designed at all but merely factual, and it is time to move up a notch in presentation.

All suggestions much appreciated.

[Reg Corkum]

I am hoping to this year develop a Class A website, and would like some views and suggestions on where and who I might consider approaching regarding this matter.

I am not in a rush, and I want it to be very very nice. Tasteful, organized, efficent and very very visual.

I have a site now which to me is somewhat amateur and not really designed at all but merely factual, and it is time to move up a notch in presentation.

All suggestions much appreciated.

[Daventry]

I am here! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

And with my prices being in Canadian dollars. You'll only have to pay 25 cents for a website!!

Daventry Web Productions (http://www.daventrywebproductions.com)

[Reg Corkum]

Hmmmm maybe I should have presented this differently. How about a voting plan on who the top equestrian webdesigners might be? I really don't wish every webdesigner to jump on me as a job opportunity. I think what I am currently searching for here is who has the top sites and who their designers might be. I know the volume of traffic and websearchers that pass through here have seen some awesome sites in their journeys.

Is that a better wording of what I am after??? or is it worse??? LOL

[cloverlone]

hmmm,.. ok. One of your first replies is a designer, http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif I stay very busy, so you don't have to count me into your search.

I am a breeder/rider (Holsteiners) and majored landscape oil painting. I used the combination to push imagery as an equine artist. I think this has made a big difference in my work.. something to look for.

As an artist, my biggest suggestion with high impact imagery is to know that someone can cut/build photos really well. I rebuild every strand of hair in a horses mane and tail, get legs CORRECT so they don't look like they have a bowed tendon, etc..

Then go for individual color and someone that can understand your business and priorities. You can build an outline and develop the pages over time rather than all at once.

Feel free to ask specific questions.
g

[neVar]

WEll up here (daventry has already posted herself) Mad Molly Marketing does alot of the websites (my stores included- link below). i do them too- but just small stuff so do NOT consider me!!!

Outrageous creations does alot up here too (www.equestrian-connection.com, (http://www.equestrian-connection.com,) equine canada, dressage canada, jump canada's websites amoung many others)

ooh who is lizard Graphics??? (i have the name in my head but i think i'm getting it confused)...

[Oakstable]

Hmm, this will be interesting to see how the question avoids answers that are banned because of self-promotion.

Reg, since your business is photography, how about going to the equine photographers group and page through the web sites of members? I think what you may be looking for is slightly different than what a sporterhorse breeder needs. You want to post a portfolio, which should be easily done with a minimum need for graphic design. Most importantly, you want it to load quickly because those of us on slow connections have no patience to wait.

Another option is to page through the stallion issue and call up the sites and make notes on the ones you like and who the webmaster is.

Since you probably will have a need to update your site with new photos more than occasionally, you will need to learn how to do it yourself, or you'll pay for the service.

You could pay someone to help you get set up in Front Page or Dreamweaver, and then update the photos as needed.

If you do hire a web designer, be sure to get an agreement on a deadline so your don't have pages Under Construction indefinitely. Very bad for business.

Good luck.
Sally

[cloverlone]

Beautiful photos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you build this one yourself? You might try doing it yourself; especially for the freedom of updates. Flash/Dreamweaver combination is all you need.


I agree on the deadline issue. It's not like magazine that has a firm deadline.. it can go on and on and on,...
g

[spirit]

When you run across a nice website, look for the name of the designer at the bottom. You can check the coding by right-clicking (view source) or go to "view - source" in the top bar of your browser.

You are looking programming that is viewable on all browsers (Frontpage is questionable), no frames (search engine problems), and used some head info (sometimes useful).

A designer should be able to analyze your needs and come up with an easy to navigate website with optimized graphics/pictures that load quickly and are viewable by various users/computers/browsers. It should also be designed for various screen sizes and have good contrast/colours.
Hope that helps.......

[Oakstable]

My site was built by hand in HTML. No bells and whistles.

It loads very quickly because of its simplicity.

www.oakhollowstable.com (http://www.oakhollowstable.com)


I think the number one thing with a web site for someone in business is fast loading.

Good point re different browsers.

The HTML class I took had us check the web site through different browsers.

Sally

[Kyzteke]

Liz Hall is Lizard Graphics.

I've been looking for web site designers myself, but they are pricey.

Not to hijack Reg's thread, but OakStables -- exactly how hard was yours to do? It looks nice.
Where did you take your class?

Anyone else build there own? Did anyone do it just using software (not taking a class)?

[Reg Corkum]

I agree Oak Stables has a good site especially for selfmade. Perhaps that is the wise route to go economically.

[Reg Corkum]

maybe a few people who are "well travelled" wouldn't mind putting up links to some of the nicest sites in their opinions. I would enjoy seeing more options.

[cloverlone]

I am a magazine designer and got frustrated paying for web, so I picked it up on my own. Benn less than a year on web and STILL LEARNING! It is possible with just a book. I learn by doing,.. making mistakes http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif, and trying to make images similar to what I can do with magazine w/out terrible download.

Once you pick up on the basic ideas, go straight to CSS. Frames are pointless, and tables can be frustrating until you find all their tricks. CSS takes care of many layout issues. If you understand databases I think it's easier to pick up on CSS. I come from photoshop and everything was overhwelming to begin with. But it is fun!

Even feeling confident with the programs, I find it takes me a lot longer to design web than magazine. So, I do believe it's expensive for a reason.

g

[Daventry]

Kyzteke, honestly speaking, I've never taken a course or class on web designing. I initially wanted to do our own website years ago and couldn't afford to have someone else do it for us, at the time. I spent many hours on the internet at various sites, learning how to make my own.

It was a lot of trial and error and learning what and what not to do....more of learning what NOT to do! It's taken me well over 5 years to go from our first crappy website to now, doing sites for others. I don't charge near enough as I just keep it as a pass time and something for me to use as a stress reliever from our regular business although, designing can have it's own stresses.

I can't emphasize enough on having a PROFESSIONAL looking site. It is usually your 'one shot' to show people what your business is made of. Also, if at all possible, stay away from programs like FrontPage. I am a true believer of "Friends don't let friends use FrontPage!". It can GREATLY slow down the speed of your website due to excessive and unneccessary coding and, for people that know nothing about websites and design, although it's a great program in theory and can be fairly easy to use, it often ends up making a mess along the way.

There are lots of classes out there for you to take on doing your own website but, by the time you pay for your course, you might as well be paying a professional to do your site. There are lots of great sites on the internet that will do the same thing and...they're FREE!

[Oakstable]

I took a class at a local vocational school. The instructor wanted to teach HTML, not a software program. But I've met women who have taught themselves HTML from books.

Palladio has a nice web site. I checked with the owner and she has done it herself in one of the software programs with a little techno help from her husband. The site is a very clean site, loads fast, and has every base covered.

I think she said she used Dreamweaver.

[Kirsten]

Reg, first a little background so you know where my perspective is coming from. I concentrated on visual communication in my undergrad degree, TA'd a graphic design course, have worked as an illustrator, designer, and usability specialist for several years, and am finishing up a graduate degree in human-computer interaction.

If you want to find A-1 talent where you are, start with advertising and media companies. Most of them these days keep people with web-specific skills on staff or on at least on an outsource list. This is usually expensive, but firms like this will help you with your whole branding and communication scheme.

Since this is for a business, you want to direct as much potential purchaser traffic to your site as possible. Make sure that whoever you go with will use appropriate titles and meta tags, to give you the best shot at being flagged by the search engines. Avoid sound, which might discourage someone from staying on your site if, for example, they are on the web at work during the day. Also avoid gratuitous Flash intros and loud background patterns. Make sure that your price list, order form, and contact info appear in a print-friendly format... for example, white text on a black background will print as a blank page.

[Cindy's Warmbloods]

I personally just got the books out and started reading. A lot of it is just trial and error. There is so much to learn but I try and learn one thing new at a time so it isn't overwhelming. Here are some of the sites that I have done:

Cindy's Warmbloods (http://www.cindyswarmbloods.com)
Skyline Stables (http://www.foundationappaloosas.com)
Stillwater Farm (http://www.stillwaterwarmbloods.com)
Poco Passion Quarterhorses (http://www.pocopassion.com)

They are just very basic sites but they display all the information that I need to. If you choose to do your own I would be happy to give you hand (if I can http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)if you have any problems. Best of luck!

[spirit]

Kirsten,

Depending on the format, most pages with white text on black will print just fine. HTML does this just fine, but I've run across .asp pages that print exactly as you see them (lots of toner used up!). Good suggestions on the sound and meta tags.

Reg,

There are lots of designers out there. If you really want to know what you're getting beforehand, ask for credentials and do a search for website "critiques". There's lots of sites out there for resources for webmasters. No reason you can't access them too(eg. webmonkey). Also, remember that a professionally done website will come up on the search engines.

[showjumpers66]

You can put together a nice website with HTML and Photoshop (and a subscription to a FLASH button builder). I took an HTML class and have a bunch of cheat books.

These are the sites I have built with HTML and Photoshop ...

www.quantumleapfarm.com (http://www.quantumleapfarm.com)

www.jumpstartfarm.faithweb.com (http://www.jumpstartfarm.faithweb.com)

www.scsbreeders.com (http://www.scsbreeders.com)

www.landwerder.net (http://www.landwerder.net)

I used Coffee Cup's Visual Site Designer for this site. I did not like it as well. I felt restrained and the pages were slower loading.

www.jwrightinteriors.com (http://www.jwrightinteriors.com/)

[Reg Corkum]

I am enjoying reading all this very much. Thank you for your input everyone.

[equusaround]

I used Heidi Sutton to build my web page. I thought her charges were reasonable and her work very nice. Her e-mail is webmaster@everdawn.com.

[Reg Corkum]

Equusaround... your site is very elegant. Thank you for your showing it.

[Dancing Lawn]

Have a look at my website, it was doen by Laur, who posts here.
It's easy to get around in, and I've had very good responses to it.
I think she's done a great job.
There's a link to her site, through mine.

[classicsporthorses]

We built our own web site-pays for me to sleep with a network engineer-husband. Ours is some 40 pages long, streaming video, links, references back to other pages etc., and it has even won an award.

The key to web pages is yes fast loading but that also depends on the users service-some people do still have dial up. Also, the web page should be continually updated. For me personally, and as a marketing and PR person, it erks me when I see that a web site has not been updated since 2003.

Also, when building a web site one has to think about what message they want to send, who is the audience, how the "merchandise" is going to be marketed and so forth. There are many, many horse web sites out there that no one looks at b/c they are no linked well to search engines.

Additionally, we also are able to analyze our web page-with stats, monthly. This allows us to see who is viewing ours, where they come from, how long they are staying on our pages and what pages they are looking at... Last month we had 125,000 page hits from all over the world and this is a low month for us. We have no done print advertising in nearly a year and the emails keep coming (and not from the nutso either).

At least for us, between my husband's talents and mine and from the feed back we have received we have done pretty well.

Look at a bunch of web sites and mark down your likes and dislikes and "build" one on paper first. What copy do you want, what size and style of font-remember house style, what do you want to say. Also GOOD PHOTOS!!! and an easy way for people to contact you really helps.

If people do email you get RIGHT back to them. The web site is PART of your marketing and PR program not the whole thing. It all goes hand in hand.

More than happy to help

Web site is www.classicsporthorses.com (http://www.classicsporthorses.com)

[Reg Corkum]

http://www.isseymiyake.com/#

Taking concepts and applying them to different fields...

Modern, Tasteful and Highly Artistic.

[Reg Corkum]

correction on link... my point in bringing this forward is the innovation of the site.

http://www.isseymiyake.com

[amdfarm]

I've enjoyed seeing how creative everyone is.

I taught myself how to write HTML when I only had WebTV and wanted to build my own site. I have a thing about graphics, too. They're fun and addicting.

Here's my first and very outdated site.
Lady Hunter's Outdoor Page (http://www.geocities.com/rljoutdoors/)

Here's a friend's site I did awhile later.
A Woman Afield (http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/canyon/4498/index.html)

I made the graphics and color scheme for this site.
The Box Call Page (http://www.geocities.com/theboxcallpage/)

Another friend's site.
Cherry Creek Acres (http://www.cherrycreekacres.com)

Any my site is linked below.

[Edgewood]

I don't know who your internet service provider is, but I use Verizon and they have a very easy program for you to design your web site (which was also free with my DSL service).

I had never done it before and I tested it out on my different computers with high speed and dial up to see how it loaded. I also requested a lot of friends to try it out and make suggestions. The only thing I had to do was to was sign up for a domain name for my farm and set up a forwarding to the web addresses that verizon gives my various pages. It works seamlessly and I don't mind doing it that way.

Just a thought since I believe that a lot of ISP do have web design programs to help their customers

[PiccalilyFarm]

I am a web developer by trade, not a web designer, but I have worked with some amazing designers. Remember first and foremost, a good web designer is an ARTIST. They can take a digital camera and go take a couple of shots and morf them into an amazing illusion on your web page. What they do, most of us visually, artistically, challenged people cannot. That must be figured in when considering cost. Lots of people can read and recreate HTML. A good book or a good gui editor makes relatively short work of that. HTML is much like the old word perfect word processing software. If you used that, HTML is a breeze. One of the little progams that I like to use when I have to clean up HTML (I am an asp programmer so am used to working in straight code) is Homesite. It's got a great search and replace feature that actually works (rare amongst gui designers IMHO)and it is a nice mixture between complete gui editing and html editing. It will help you get a feel for what the code looks like behind the actual page. Good Luck!

[Reg Corkum]

I appreciate all input but one thing I would like to mention. I think it is difficult enough to be a professional in any one area, let alone exceed in all areas.

I am sure it is really fun to sit down and figure out the ins and outs of web design and have that grand sense of accomplishment to do it yourself, but from experience, I have found the do it yourself method screams exactly that.

This is a media that offers endless choices and I would not like to personally pretend that I could compete, so I think with that in mind, it is the polished professional I seek.

In my experience, the best artists work with great freedom and when hiring,one needs to simply toss ideas and feelings and let them arrange the interpretation that they feel.

I have seen a zillion sites that give me the impression I have just walked into a filing cabinet, everything orderly business like and following the norm.

Nothing wrong with that if that is what appeals to you, but I am also aware of the fact that technology is very advanced and why limit that potential?

Wby not have a site that reaches out and touches people in a very personal way.

Bottom line is... I am trying to dig a little deeper here even if it means to go beyond and into the holes in my pockets.

Brilliance. Where are you hiding?

[Iluvgoldies]

Reg,
I surf equine related sites ...all the time, and by far there is one lady who designs sites that are just AMAZING - I cant even comprehend having enough creativy to produce what she does.

Here is a link to her portfolio, enjoy. I'm sure the artist in you will love her websites, as they are truly art http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Equine Designs by Nia (http://www.miravalandalusians.com/nia/portindex.htm)

[cloverlone]

Equine Graphics (http://www.equinegraphics.com)

Cloverlone Farm (http://www.cloverlone.com)

Cranwell Farms (http://cranwell-farms.com)

Bent Tree Farm Friesians (http://www.benttreefarm.net/FRIESIANS.htm)

[Natural hi]

hi

My web site www.espequines.com (http://www.espequines.com)
is designed and maintained by Spirit Hills Graphics.
I find that I have a very good working relationship with this person, she listens to what my wants and needs are, then sets forth to accomplish this for me. We set forth a budget and she honours that budget for me. I call my web site a work in progress...it changes has my showing continues and or pics are added, and or sales horses are sold or added etc...she always has everything finished for me in a very reasonable amount of time (she's quick) ...I hired a webmaster so I would not have to deal with that part of my business...and it has worked for me...I have hidden stats in the first 3 months over 30,000 hits in the first year alone it was 100,000 hits.... some people say they come back to look and check things out over and over again because there is always something new going on my site and I have enjoyed the postive feedback from the folks who enjoy the site...
You can check out her other works by going to her web site of course you will find her link on my site...

[K~2]

A beautifully presented equine photography website is Barbara Livingston's (http://www.barbaralivingston.com/).

[Oakstable]

What works for a breeder's site may not work for a photographer's site. That's why I suggested at the beginning of this thread to go to the network of equine photographers and check out their web sites.

For example:

www.susansexton.com (http://www.susansexton.com)

Enjoy.

Sally

[Oakstable]

I second Barbara Livingston's site as a model site.

I have not searched for sites for Sheri Scott and Teri Miller, but they are two photographers who work full-time in photography and I bet they would have lovely portfolios on line.

Sally

[Reg Corkum]

Thank you K2! I was thoroughly impressed by presentation and the work itself! Stunning on all counts! For a moment I thought I was in another world! Thank you so much for sharing that.

[showjumpers66]

I think the Graphics by Gail are gorgeous, but really distracting and too busy when trying to look at an ad.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cloverlone:
http://www.equinegraphics.com

http://www.cloverlone.com

http://cranwell-farms.com

http://www.benttreefarm.net/FRIESIANS.htm <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Barb Gualco]

It is quite difficult yet exciting to convey via your website what you can about your program, offspring, training, stallion, staff, accomplishments, services, breeding program, veterinary staff, anything you can possibly explain to buyers and other breeders about how much thought, time and yes dollars you have invested to indeed make a living and encourage buyers to become educated about blood lines (same bloodlines as Germany) to encourage them to stay home from Europe and buy USA..all off of a website...and because the nation is so spead out, oftentimes the website is the only impression besides your voice on the tele that someone will get...and they either decide to make the trip or they don't...but they are fantastic tools..www.silverhorne.com site has undergone it's annual transformation and is still morphing..I hope people find it useful.

[Majestic Gaits]

Beth Djaugis also does a super job. She does www.wwwarmbloods.com (http://www.wwwarmbloods.com) and she just won the USDF award for large GMO for the NEDA website www.neda.org (http://www.neda.org)

Kathy
www.majesticgaits.com (http://www.majesticgaits.com)

[Reg Corkum]

I keep going back to look at that site of Barb Livingston. I just love everything about it! its a combination of so many things, stunning images, perhaps more personal than commerical in some cases but stirs emotion. I would love to find my site looking half as nice truly.

[jumpgirl]

I'll vote for the people who is Beth's site at
http://www.bellvaledressage.com

http://www.hphanoverians.com this is an old site but still looks good

http://www.rylandknollfarm.com

http://www.solitudefarm.com

I've posted about them before and I know they do mostly non horse commericial sites like hospitals, real estate sites but their ad design and websites are pretty top notch. It isn't often you find a professional company that actually knows about horses too.

[Daventry]

For a site like Barb Livingston', you're probably looking at spending in excess of $2,000 US.

[Reg Corkum]

Some very nice features indeed jumpgirl. I am obviously drawn toward the animation aspects more. I just have the thought in mind that its very nice to just enter and "having it all handed to you on a silver platter". Its that sit back and enjoy the show feeling.

[spirit]

Reg Corkum,

You do realize that the sites that draw you in are FLASH websites. These can be very nice, but slow loading. Flash CAN load at a decent rate if done properly and in a mix with HTML, Java etc.

The aspect of having everything "handed to you" can be very nice, but you'll want to analyze your audience. YOU may like this, but someone else may find it annoying and just leave your site. There are many questions that a professional can sort out for you. You may want to look for an ad agency that offers websites.

[Reg Corkum]

Spirit...if "control issues" were a concern, I might spend a long lonely life trying to please everyone all of the time. I can only decide what appeals to my taste. LOL

[Reg Corkum]

Apologies for that remark Spirit. I had just spent 7 hours formatting color correcting and formatting and wasn't in the best of form. You are right.

[spirit]

No offence taken Reg Corkum - didn't mean to offend you. I take it that you're probably more educated on the webstuff than I knew. 7 hour huh? Make anyone cross-eyed.

[Iluvgoldies]

I posted this a few pages back and think it may have gotten lost under all the other links:

Very nice website design:
Equine Designs by Nia (http://www.miravalandalusians.com/nia/portindex.htm)

Sorry if you already looked at it Reg.

[Reg Corkum]

No actually I did see it. I just got sidetracked and didn't comment. This link opens to a lovely display of work. Great use of color.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Iluvgoldies:
I posted this a few pages back and think it may have gotten lost under all the other links:

Very nice website design:
http://www.miravalandalusians.com/nia/portindex.htm

Sorry if you already looked at it Reg. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Reg Corkum]

Sonesta send me a distress call and I felt it fitting to comply. LOL

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by spirit:
No offence taken Reg Corkum - didn't mean to offend you. I take it that you're probably more educated on the webstuff than I knew. 7 hour huh? Make anyone cross-eyed. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Reg Corkum]

Well folks, I have to say. Someone quoted the site of Livingston as being in the area of $2000. Cough sputter. I sent an enquiry to the designer who wowed me most...David Hayden... and it appears the $1000-2000 bracket is their cheapest site packages. I haven't heard news on the enquiry but I will inform you. Like in all things the best doesn't come cheap.

So if my future is "impoverished trailer trash" with the most stunning website imaginable, so be it.

Lord help me...I have lost my mind.

[Reg Corkum]

Well the latest news is I have had "zilch, zippo, nada, blank and nothing" response on my enquiry..so back to the drawing board and still on the search...

"All that glistens is not gold"... or something along those terms.

[Reg Corkum]

Life is peculiar is it not? I no more than mentioned this, then checked my mail and guess what...I got a response.

I have to contact him after the first of the year. I will keep you posted on what results.

[saxony]

I agree that while some of the Flash websites are stunning, they can be a bit tedious. Personally, I love Sandy Werkheiser's work. She does the American Hanoverian Society's website and I have seen some of her other work. I think her sites are a combination of so many good qualities: Not cluttered, easy to navigate, professional,etc., etc. Some day soon I hope to have enough $$ to have her design a website for me. I have also liked her print ads as well. You can see her work with the AHS at American Hanoverian Society (http://www.hanoverian.org)

[unrequited]

"For a site like Barb Livingston', you're probably looking at spending in excess of $2,000 US. "

Actually, my estimate would add a zero after that figure. And I'm in the business of marketing.

While BL's website is absolutely stunning - I mean STUNNING - it takes a terribly long time to load. And I'm in the middle of downtown Toronto. Imagine what it would be like for a horse owner in a rural location.

BTW - I'm starting to dabble in horsey marketing. (It's where I spend my evenings and weekends, so why wouldn't I? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif )Let me know what you think of one of my first projects: www.vdlulandoh.com (http://www.vdlulandoh.com) There are more due to launch in the coming months.

[Oakstable]

I think we're dealing with different purposes. A site for a photographer is different than a site for a breeder or SO. Also, a racetrack photographer has a different environment to work in than someone doing conformation, head and jumping/dressage photos. Barbara Livingston's site is lovely because of the quality of photos and the drama. Would it be worth paying that kind of money for a site unless someone has books to sell, etc.?


Stargatesporthorses has a really nice web site. I looked up the webmaster and they are not an equine site per se but handle major sites for insurance companies, the Dallas Morning News, etc. etc.

Obviously the sky is the limit when it comes to what is possible.

Unrequited, I like your web site for the VDL stallion. You stopped me with "Why breed to a chestnut." A good horse has no color. What's that about?

[unrequited]

Thanks O -

The site is not my own, but for a client of mine. I work collaboratively with each client to determine their needs and showcase their business appropriately.

This particular stallion owner actually did receive quite a bit of negative feedback about chestnut stallions. (Can you imagine?) This was a fun way to acknowledge that and make light of it.

Also, have a look at the pedigree chart. It is dynamic – also a request of the client. This particular stallion's pedigree is so strong, that we worked together to find a way to honour that, while educating mare owners of the significance.

Another great feature is the Photo Gallery. Ulando’s owners can update this themselves, from home, with no special software, and at NO additional cost. I look forward to seeing new images once the show season begins in the spring. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

[Home Again Farm]

I will second the caution that the bigger and more complex the Flash site, the longer it will take to download. I love the Barb Livingston site, and know that Reg's photos would look wonderful in a similar template. However, I also wonder how many horse folks have high speed internet connections and will wait to see the product.

Unrequited,

I know that Mac folks are not a big market, but you might want to know that the second page of your site that is linked above does not display well on my G5 using either Safari 1.2.3 or Netscape 7.2. The right hand frame will not display all your text on a 17 inch monitor at 1024X768. There are no scroll bars to remedy the problem. Otherwise, it is a lovely site. Good job!

[Reg Corkum]

What makes life truly interesting is there are always a thousand opinions on absolutely everything,and there truly are no rights or wrongs just feedback.

UNR I think the saying went...."A good horse is a horse of any color"...creative writing on your behalf...I presume.

What do I think? Nice use of color, a bit different in presentation in a good way. I am not sure I loved the transition from image to image, and some of the images were possibly not necessary, they didn't add more to my feeling of the subject. The old adage goes... Less is better.

However I can comment all I want and its merely a sweet summer breeze because compared to mine its much nicer.

Regarding my coommnents on BL's site, I live slightly behind the times and have dial up, and her site loads quickly and smoothly here. With fast internet, I imagine its dynamite.

My feeling on BL's is...As a finished product, from beginning to end, the work included, it has a mood, it transitions beautifully and is completely and totally captivating. That is what I like about it.

I know my work is a different story and would need a different interpretation, but in my past of knowing very good artists, I know you cannot reach the summit until you reach the summit,

On a lighter note, this has turned into a rather lengthy interesting thread and thanks all for participating, it feels like it is turning into "American Idol website"... and we all know the best one never winsm don't we?

However those who have braved the storm and stepped forward are all deserving and winners in their own right.

Now Simon, have a seat...we are all waiting for your kind gentle remarks.

[Reg Corkum]

Reggie Reggie Reggie...."coommnents"...what the heck is that?

Obviously spell check is not something I use regularly.

[jackie]

Golden Venture Graphics did a wonderful and super reasonably priced web site for my mother in a very short time. I think we had it up in a month. (I am talking really reasonably priced!)

[jumpgirl]

I don't believe BL's site is a $20,000 site. I received a response from a general pricing inquiry from brightnight media - beth's webmasters - and they start at $800 minimum which gets you approx. 5 pages with no flash. They said bl's site would be about $3500. They are a marketing firm with about 5 years web design and a large portfolio. Their regular commercial sites are really nice. ok, this is starting to sound like a commercial so,

I'll agree with the chestnut horse syndrome. Buyers, even buyers for higher levels, TYPICALLY, will cross off all chestnuts, then look at the quality, temperment, etc of the ones left when horse shopping.

[Fairview Horse Center]

OK, I have dial up. I went to the BL site, and waited a full minute to see.... an artsy page - no links, nothing else? waited another full minute. Is anything else supposed to happen? Just a nice background photo with a few pictures? A single page?

[Fiesta]

my bf does excellent designs but he doesnt normally serve the equestrian industry though he did design this site http://www.stallions.net/
he also did this one though the site doesnt seem to be up anymore.
http://www.eartobrain.com/semen/
for his non horsey work http://www.discotoast.com
under services, then webdev

[Reg Corkum]

well Fiesta I am going to award your boyfriend first place on my voting card for that style of site... use of color and elegant presentation... very nice indeed.

[Reg Corkum]

I am enjoying this more and more. Thanks again all of you for coming forward.

Lets have one new rule however. Lets not bring up dollars. I am guilty others are as well.

Lets ust take the opportunity to see what the world has to offer.

[Oakstable]

There are some fabulous web sites for breeders based in Europe. It doesn't hurt to have a castle in the background.

Since Reg is a photographer, maybe we should be looking at URLs for equine photography sites.

Eylers work comes first to mind. I don't have him bookmarked. Anyone?

[jumpgirl]

Any reason not to talk about what a website would cost? We talk about what horses cost, trainers, shows, halters, blankets, ads in magazines, etc. Why not how much one would spend on a website of a certain quality?

[Fiesta]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Reg Corkum:
well Fiesta I am going to award your boyfriend first place on my voting card for that style of site... use of color and elegant presentation... very nice indeed. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

he will be very happy about that. personally id love for him to get even more horsey jobs :P send him an email if u are interested elixir@discotoast.com
prices really vary drastically depending on what is needed. but he would rather talk about those things on a client to client basis.

[Reg Corkum]

Fiesta...when will these sites be completed? I see under construction signs.

[Reg Corkum]

My only reason Jumpgirl is I don't want to cause moderator agitation here. I am not sure where the limit is in discussion. This is all somewhat new to me.

Just trying not to cause waves...

[Reg Corkum]

You know the more I think about all this the more confused I am getting. Some good points have been made. You need to be concerned about what is best suited for others as well as what fits your own tastes. Where is the middle ground?

A few thoughts... I tend to like a color story that has harmony...darker backgrounds tend to make images pop more... less than black I think is more interesting...limited color is an old remedy that has always worked, that was a tip from Alex Coville...frilly lettering doesn't have great appeal to me but might to others...too many bells and whistles seems to create other problems regarding upload speed...prices can get a bit over the top...

[neVar]

Well i have to say- in the process of helping decide on a web tender for a website. Of tenders given (and what i discovered shopping for my store's website) it is amazing how much $$$ difference there is for the same stuff.

Some designers/developers are CHEAP- i mean WAY below the average- but do just as good of work- but because they are small they figure they can't get the work (and yet still don't even at a lower price). Where others for the same price are WAY higher (3-4x). and some well some just are off in the loop still stuck back in 1995 *G*.

There is truely such a large amount of difference when shopping for a developer. Not even getting into the 'artistic' side of it- but just a good lookign site that works. prices range so much!

[airbaby]

Just a suggestion - having an easy program where you can update it daily without help will be a hugh cost savings, something like Dreamweaver where the basics are very easy to learn - we hired a wonderful programer to work with our photographer and designer.

www.soleilequestrian.com (http://www.soleilequestrian.com)

[unrequited]

There are safer, easier and cheaper ways of getting a self maintained site. It can and should be done without the client having to purchase or learn new software. Instead, you can expect to input your information, much as we do here, directly into a secure web based admin page. Prework on the part of your developer, in a style sheet, will ensure the net result will look well.

Sometimes you will pay a little more in upfront costs for this alternative. (This relates directly to the amount of time spent on the extra coding.) However, the long term flexibility and timeliness of the site will make it worth while.

As an example, I refer you back to the Ulando site. The client can add any number of photos to the Gallery or articles to the News area, at any time, from any location at no additional cost. That make quite a bit of sense to me. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

[unrequited]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Home Again Farm:
Unrequited,

I know that Mac folks are not a big market, but you might want to know that the second page of your site that is linked above does not display well on my G5 using either Safari 1.2.3 or Netscape 7.2. The right hand frame will not display all your text on a 17 inch monitor at 1024X768. There are no scroll bars to remedy the problem. Otherwise, it is a lovely site. Good job! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

HAF - Good point and something I pondered quite seriously. Would you believe that less than 2% of the visitors to the site (before you http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) tried to access it with these browsers? When you weigh that out against the cost of:

1) extra coding and time to accommodate the difference;
2) the loss of some really great features those browsers do not support;
3) the fact that I would seriously burn out my web developer;

I opted to go with the very vast majority.

And that's the challenge with web - different monitors, different access, different settings - you have to know your market and find the BEST solution.

[Sporthorse Shop]

Reg Corkum:

I have a professional web design and developing company. I also have a double major in engineering and the fine arts. A rare but good mix to get into this line of work. Here are a number of pointers.

First of all, if you want a professional site, don't do it yourself. It seems you already came to that conclusion, which is good. I have spent years upon years learning and perfecting what I do. I have programmers working for me who have done nothing but program for 10 plus years. I have designers who have perfected photoshop, flash, and continue to stay on the cutting edge of what is available. It is frustrating to me when people tell others to build their own sites and then want to put the site on the same level as a site designed by a professional company. This is like the amateur saying they can take the green horse and turn it into a GP jumper. Those kind of comments are very frustrating for professional trainers, as they know it is not possible, except for by the select few who have spent as many successful years in the saddle as the trainer has. There is much more to a website than just "learning html" and it cannot be learned by just picking up a book.

Since your site will be horse related, I highly recommend you stick with a company who understands horses. Or else you will spend a lot of your time explaining to them various horse terms. This will also make sure any horse graphics look correct.

I would hesitate to use a company with only one designer or an individual designer. The problem becomes apparent when you look at their portfolios. They get stuck in a rut with one type of layout that works well. I noticed this in a couple of the portfolios that people mentioned here. The key to keeping designs fresh and orginal is numerous designers. Designers get rotated through different projects and different jobs so they don't get burnt out artistically.

You need to use a company with not just a developing background, but an artist background as well. Try as they might, web programmers and coporate type designers will never understand the essence of art. One has to be an artist to understand that art is more than just a picture. It has feeling and movement that will be made static by the wrong composition. If you use a designer who is an artist, they will be able to better mentally understand what you are looking for. As they listen to you describe your project, they will be able to start envisioning designs and layouts and help you nail down a design or theme that meets your goals.

Regarding flash, it is a great medium. And, it is preferred by many artists, including musicians, painters, photographers, etc... The reason being is art is in a sense eccentric, especially when compared to a corporate image, and flash is very good at capturing that. It also brings a new dynamic to your site, movement. Movement can help greatly in creating a mood, which is the goal of almost every artistic website. Yes, flash does slow your site down considerably. There are two options. The first being, that you just acknowledge a certain percentage of visitors will not stay and wait for it to download. The second being the most logical choice, albeit more expensive, but it does allow 100% of your users to view your site. Your home page allows the user to select between viewing your site as a "flash site" or an "html site". This sovles all the problems and allows you to maintain your creativity. The reason it is more expensive, is the html site and flash site will be two completely different sites. They will have the same theme, but will be built differently.

As far as updating goes. Again, do not bother trying to learn dreamweaver. Unless you plan on making it your full time job, you will learn just enough to make yourself dangerous. You will get your finished site from your designer, be thrilled, want to update it, look at it in dreamweaver and then proceed to thoroughly mess it up. To the untrained eye a professional site in dreamweaver quickly becomes confusing and overwhelming as to what is going on in there. Someone mentioned a backend admin panel. Yes, this is the answer to updating your site. It will cost you more in the beginning, but you will save a lot of money in the long run if you plan on making numerous updates to your site. Plus with a backend admin panel, you can add in all sorts of features, including maintaining an e-mail list and sending out a newsletter, sales lists, portfolios, pretty much anything that can be manipulated by programming. The way a backend admin panel works, is it is a webpage, accessible from anywhere there is an internet connection and browser. It is password protected. Once you log in, you will be given whatever choices the developer programmed in. For example if they developed it so you can control your portfolio. You would be able to edit or delete existing items or add in new items. You would be able to select a picture, a title to go with the picture, text to go with the picture, etc... Font colors can be programmed in, content editing, pretty much anything. If these panels are built well, they are easy to use and painless. Good admin panels require good programmers, not designers.

To address the issue someone brought up about keeping content fresh. They were correct when saying outdated content does leave a bad impression. It makes it look like you do not care about your business, you are lazy and not professional. The other important reason is for search engine ranking. Fresh content puts your site higher in the ranking than old content. Google ranks outdated sites harshly, because they want the sites that appear in the searches to be useful and current. Search Engine Optimization is a whole other field. Again, it requires dedication and experience to understand the most cutting edge tools and methods. Some web companies will offer this service, some won't. Most will offer a basic submission and to do meta tags. Meta tags are keywords put into your html code that the search engines look at as part of your ranking.

Lastly, a good web designer/developer will help you through the process. They will help you to layout the outline for your site, figure out your "look/feel", and give you suggestions for features you may want.

Yes, this was long, but it goes to show how much is involved with a professional site, what you need to think about when planning your site, and why it should be left to the professionals.

[jumpgirl]

Sporthorse Shop, it is good to see a well put together horse related web company. So many of the ones I've seen are just really really bad.

BrightNight, from the email they sent, also includes a "admin" component to all of their websites. It says that you can simply log in and update any of the text and change out photos in a step by step manner that the admin software walks you through. I would think that would save the site owner a tremendous amount of time and money. It is nice to see that your company does the same. I beleive web companies that don't offer this feature will either have to start or will stop getting much business.

It is also the difference in a "friend of the owner's brother's best friend's cousin" who just "happens to know a little html" and "who is studying it in college" and a professional company who actually knows what they are doing.

[Tannenwald Trakehner]

Sporthorse Shop, thanks for a well-written treatise on the pitfalls of DYI marketing. I also have been creating websites professionally since the mid-90's for horse-related and other businesses and appreciate the way you addressed the questions that people in this field receive so often. Your analogy to the horse trainer resonates loudly http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

A great website is so important in the equine industry that the importance really defies quantification. This is particularly true for an artist in the equine field. And as a breeder, I will say that every horse but one that we have ever sold has been via our website and video, with the first inquiry being generated by the website. Only one of our horses has been "met" by their new owner before the purchase. Your other marketing materials need to measure up (and of course your "product" needs to be good...), but a website is the most far-reaching and cost-effective marketing tool that you have at your disposal.

I agree that a fresh perspective is important, but frankly I think that a web designer who does nothing but create websites one after another will tend to settle into a "tired" groove eventually. No one wants a site that looks just like someone else's. One way to deal with that issue is to have multiple designers, though unfortunately it requires both the studio owner and the client to have more faith in delegation than I personally possess http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Another option is to work with someone who knows the craft but doesn't work at it on a full time basis.

With respect to fees for sites, there are cheap designers and more expensive ones. Price is sometimes but not always reflective of quality. But I have to say honestly that, except for a very basic site or one which is basically translating someone's print layout to the internet, costs which may seem outlandish to some are actually very reasonable. Sites can involve significant programming work which may run behind the scenes, so that no one knows it is there except that it is doing it's job by making the site function elegantly and as it should (kind of like the aids in dressage http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

Even when there is NOT significant amount of scripting, creative processes and revisions take a lot of time. Sometimes unpredictable amounts of time http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif I am currently working on a site (actually, one for a photographer http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) which has taken quite a bit of time. Enough that if I had quoted it at the number I had thought of off the top of my head, I would be working at $5 per hour. However, being a perfectionist I want the site to be as efficient and elegant as possible, and it is getting there. And since it is not a full-time occupation, I can afford to bleed a little (but only a little... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif). But the point is, creating a good site takes time, even when you are familiar with the tools. Without any consideration for the thousands of hours people who have worked in the field for any length of time have invested in studying, learning, and perfecting techniques. And I am not pooh-poohing the folks who go to Swish or Dreamweaver and figure out how to bang out a site, but to work in the area effectively as a professional one has a lot to learn and must pay their dues in money and time. No, it ain't rocket science, but my formal education is in chemistry, engineering, and law, and I can attest to the fact that knowledge of designing and programming for the web doesn't just slip into your head overnight.

Finding a designer who can fulfill all of your objectives can be difficult. It is something of a paradox that, in search of someone who can create for you a truly unique site, you have to look at their body of work created for other people and pick what you like! From a client's perspective, I would suggest that, if at all possible, you talk with a few designers and get an idea for the concept they have of your project. From a designer's perspective that is kind of a lousy way to go, because the designer's creative potential is being tapped without a commitment of the project. The best case would be a happy medium, perhaps doing some initial consulting at low cost?

At any rate, Reg, good luck with your quest. Obviously you are looking for just the right "fix." It may not be delivered by the biggest "name" or at the highest (or lowest) price, but hopefully you find someone whose vision complements your own. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[jumpgirl]

In my experience, it is not possible to get a good designer to tell you a concept before a contract is written and a deposit is paid. And I think it is downright rude to ask them to do that as well. Would you ask a someone to train your horse for you so they could evaluate whether they liked your training methods without them charging you for their time and then if you liked it, they would hire you to finish the horse? No.

One thing I have learned for sure, 1.Make sure that whatever designer you hire, YOU retain all rights to the website without paying ongoing fees. That means, you can take your "look" of your site and use it in a flyer, brochure, stallion ad, etc without additional royalties.

2. Make sure that your domain name is in YOUR name with YOUR contact info - especially email. I have heard horror stories about the designer registering the domain name in their name and then disappearing. When renewal time comes up, you lose your domain.

[Fairview Horse Center]

ahhh, but it's art. Shouldn't you have to pay a yearly use fee? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (just kidding)

[Tannenwald Trakehner]

jumpgirl,

Define your experience and define "good designer." http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif In my opinion and the perspective I work from, there is no reason why someone should not be willing to entertain a consultation at a fee to discuss preliminary concepts, even a mockup (again, no one excluded the concept of a fee). Those kinds of arrangements are a matter of contract, or "private treaty" in horse lingo, and may be what is necessary in order to effect the contract. And back to a horse training analogy, isn't it common enough that a trainer will put a ride in on your horse (with or without a fee) for both them and you to get a cursory assessment of rider/horse ability? I have seen that to be the case very often.

IMHO, the way a web design contract should be written is as work for hire, granting the client the rights to the site without need for further payment. However, the contract needs to be succinct on what attributes of the fiunished product are actually considered the client's property.

However, it is not always reasonable to be able to take the "'look' of your site" and go--there are many instances where portability will require added work on the part of the original designer to translate elements designed for the web to a usable form for print or other media. Preparation of graphics at various resolutions, for example.

On registering domains, sometimes they are done in the client's name and sometimes in my business' name. From experience with certain clients I have learned that some are not interested in all of the spamming and junk snail mail that registered contacts get (though that is somewhat preventable now with private or proxy registrations). One repeat client was effectively slammed, to borrow the telephone long distance terminology, being sent a bill to renew her domain by a registrar who was not the original registrar of the name. She complied with the billing and all heck broke loose. From that point on, she elected to not be listed as registrant or in the other contacts.

As in all things, there are no absolutes.

[Reg Corkum]

Thank you Sporthorse Shop and Tannerwald for those insightful pointers.

Special thanks to Sporthorse Shop for being "first to go" in clarifying many specific issues. Leadership...a noble quality.

You have answered questions I was feeling but didn't know how to put them in words...

My first website experience was just that and it shows all too well my personal lack of knowledge. let's just file that under growing pains.

Thank you very much for coming forward.

[Reg Corkum]

Confessions of an eccentric.... David Hayden has made a "Barb Livingston" groupie out of me! LOL

To date, no other site has exceeded that feeling in me personally. This is not a criticism, just a personal view.

[jhodkin]

Where you guys have websites that have a coloured bar at the top which curves down on the left hand side of the page - how the heck do you do that ??? I can get a top bar and a left hand bar but it leaves you with a corner not a curve...

I've been trying to work it out. Do you use a graphics tool to actually draw the curve and then save it as an image which loads between the top bar and the side??

I'd love to know the answer!

Julia
Future Sport Horses - Event Horse Breeders (http://www.futuresporthorses.co.uk)

[Daventry]

That "curve" that you see is an actual graphic image that is added to the top and left hand column (or where ever you want it to be).

It's another example of the difference between a professional and an amateur done site. Very much, like someone already said, the difference between an amateur trained horse and a professional trained horse. The professional horse is just that much more "polished".

I'm sure there are some "how to" demonstrations on the internet on how to go about doing the curve but if you are not familiar with working with tables, etc. I'd stay away from using it as you are only going to be doing more harm than good to your website!

[just1look]

I personally love the company who's designing my site!
www.nthdegreesoltuions.com (http://www.nthdegreesoltuions.com)
she also has her very own farm with a site
www.fieldstone-farm.com (http://www.fieldstone-farm.com)
She does great work and is a lovely person.

[just1look]

Sorry that was supposed to be
www.nthdegreesolutions.com (http://www.nthdegreesolutions.com)

[Reg Corkum]

A lot of lovely sites for sure.... no argument there.

Use of color, composition, it all refects good taste, and many achieve that.

I don't wish to influence by my choices. I am simply reflecting what appeals to me personally.

It is obvious that not all will agree. Thats what makes the venture interesting.

Bottom line is content is what matters.

Just1look...your link doesn't load but hers does.

Can you try again? Thank you.

[Home Again Farm]

Hi Unrequited,

I do a little amateurish web building, and am aware of browser percentages, etc. I always am eager to know what others see when they pull up a site I have built. Sometimes it can be a real surprise -- and not necessarily a good one. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Just for fun, I tried the site again in the last Internet Explorer that was issued for Macs (5.2). The problem was even worse there. The front page loses all your text. I scrounged around and found a spot on the front page that held a link to your next page (only because I knew that there should be one). The second page had the same problem reported in the other Mac browsers.

I tried with Firefox -- you don't want to know what happened with it. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

I am on several web developer mailing lists, and the problem of browser compatibility comes up a lot. The concensus seems to be that it is wise to try to offer workable pages for as much of your target base as possible. That can be done in a variety of ways, as Sporthorse South outlined above.

I realize what you are saying about browsers, code, etc., but really feel that (at least for Safari and Netscape), the fix IS likely to be simple and ought to be done. Part of my own process when building sites, amateur as they are, is to test them on my Mac as well as my PC in the most used browsers. You'd be surprised at how many mare owners have Macs. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I'd also like to comment very generally about what I look for in a breeder's site. First, I want one that is easily used. The navigation is clear and accessible on every page. The pictures load quickly. Please don't make me scroll sideways to read the text. The pictures should be of good quality to showcase the horses. The site is updated regularly. There are no typos, and grammar is appropriate for a business site. The site indicates a real knowledge of the horses -- the bloodlines used, the way they are developed from birth onwards, etc. Those, to me, are the basics. An artistic layout is wonderful, as are quick loading flash files to set a mood. But the nuts and bolts (IMHO) are useability and an appealing product (the horses!!). The rest is icing, and I can live without icing on my cake. But I don't care for icing, without a cake that holds up underneath it. And, please, I am NOT talking about ANY sites that have been referenced here, but just breeder sites in general.

I also feel that an artist and/or professional photographer has a different set of needs. An artistic, mood setting layout is much more important for that sort of website, for it will be an initial indication of the site owner's work. BUT, the ease of navigation, loading speed and alternatives for those with older browsers, all need to be there, too. IMHO.

Reg, I love the BL site and hope that you get your heart's desire and have one very much like it. Your work deserves that sort of setting. Looks like we'll need to start paying your more $$$ and less pumpkin pies and lunches to build up that website fund. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I'll be happy to do so.

[Reg Corkum]

Mary Lou don't underestimate your capabilites.

It is a complex media for sure and this forum has opened my eyes tremendously.

I strongly doubt that any site is without flaws, and you have captured very tastefully the essentials of what good websites are all about.

There are few amateurs who could walk a mile in your shoes my dear.

Don't sell yourself short.

[jumpgirl]

tannenwald,
I define a good designer as a professional who does web and graphics for a full time business for at least a couple of years - more is better, who has an extensive portfolio, and who gets most of their business from word of mouth referrals.

I don't think you can compare a trainer getting on a horse for 30 minutes or so to a designer coming up with an entire mock up of a well done web site. I would imagine that creating the "look" and/or "concept" of the site - required to do the mock up - is a large part of the time involved in designing a site. ( a site with a database is different because that takes a while) Once that "look" is created, usually done on the first page of the site, then the rest of the pages are filled in with pertinent information laid over the theme already created.

So what you are asking by requiring a "mock up" is for the designer to "pitch" a product. Most professionals won't pitch. Beginners will and ones who aren't any good will.

BTW, good designers are in great demand and have weeks and weeks of lead time before starting new sites. Ones not so good, are ready immediately. Beware the ones who can start immediately. There is a reason why.

[just1look]

Reposted Reg!!!
try again....
she really does nice work and here's another example of her work.

www.breacreststables.com (http://www.breacreststables.com)
mine will be done shortly!
www.daybreakfarm.ca (http://www.daybreakfarm.ca)

again hers are
www.nthdegreesolutions.com (http://www.nthdegreesolutions.com)
and
www.fieldstone-farm.com (http://www.fieldstone-farm.com)

I also like a few others that I've seen....
www.afineromance.ca (http://www.afineromance.ca)
www.vdlulando.com (http://www.vdlulando.com)

there's just so many.
I like classic desings that let the photos and such really present itself.
I also find that someone who really knows the equine world is important....they can get nice shots brushed and set so that they're great shots.

[just1look]

ok I'm making a lot of mistakes this morning!
need to refill the coffee!

www.braecreststables.com (http://www.braecreststables.com)
www.vdlulandoh.com (http://www.vdlulandoh.com)

Sorry!!!

[Reg Corkum]

Ha Ha .... Just1look.... your linking has much in common with my spelling.

A Fine Romance...very charismatic horse.

[just1look]

I'm just sad I know! My spelling is terrible today too!!!
http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

A Fine Romance (Fred) is a great stallion....I've worked with him on and off for quite a few years now. He is a pleasure to work with.

[unrequited]

SS - Great summary! I was working along side my web developer when I took time out to read your post. I must have said something out loud, because he started to read over my shoulder. Let's just say he was jumping up and down and uttering loudly and clearly AGREE upon completing each paragraph.

I often summarize the abilities of a good web creator as one who can think with both the left and right side of their brain, and transition with ease between them. This is less common than you might think. SS, seeing as you have a background in both the arts and engineering, I suspect you might know first hand what I am talking about. (Me: philosophy (logic) and the arts, supplemented by many excruciating years in sales. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif)

There's an area we haven't touched on: LOGIC. A good site should have an intuitive and logical navigational system. For our smaller horsey sites, that is normally solved with an About Us | Contact | Sales | Portfolio etc. For larger sites, this can be quite the challenge. The multinational bank, intranet system that I'm working on in my day job comes to mind = ginormous (fun) challenge. I've also been geekishly considering the alternatives for the breed association site that another poster referenced earlier. (I'm also a volunteer for that web committee and looking forward to seeing the submissions.)

HAF - I do hear you on the browser comment. I do contend - and this is pure speculation on my part - that MOST viewers who use the browsers you are referencing are the web geeks who are really trying to do the old ah-ha thing. I've been tracking the traffic for that site. Those that used those browsers - again only 1% - had IP addresses from web development companies. To affirm my position, (because I do need handholding at the best of times), I once again site the multi-national bank. Just a week ago they relaunched their public website which was created for IE browser only. (In Netscape it looks like poo.) I was not on that project, but I can assure you, as a company of the big blue stock holder sort, they did do the due dilegence on that decision. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

[neVar]

I have to say- having someone who can set up an 'admin panal' as others have posted is a fabulous way.

My store's site - basically has a system like that (Os commerce- which is used for alot of online stores) but it means I can update images, the available items and NOT screw up the programming (i would not touch this site's back end with a ten foot pole! it's too nice!). It really is an ideal way for keeping sites updated and current (with less cost over all, less waiting etc) and something i hope we see in more webpages in the future... Especially for things were more then one person works on (breed associations, schools, businesses etc).

Nowas to how to do that_ WAY beyond my knowledge!

[Home Again Farm]

Reg,

Thanks for the very kind words. Now I owe you a pumkin pie. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I am an amateur baker too. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Hi Unrequited,

Sorry to continue on in a bit OT, but I wonder how the bank site shows up in IE 5.2 for Mac? Or, heaven forbid, in AOL?? Is this a site meant solely for bankers or also for bank clients?

The reason I use Safari (and sometimes Netscape) is because the COTH forums site does not work well in the old IE 5.2 for Macs (which, incidentally, is the LAST version that will ever be made for Macs, so I can't choose a newer version). I still contend that the smart webmaster will make certain that at least one Mac-friendly browser shows off their site accurately. I bought my Dell PC for the sole purpose of testing my websites. Color and brightness are very different in the PC world -- darker in general. Most of the web developers who design on Macs always make sure to test on PCs. they would be remiss if they didn't.

Balancing browsers vs the work that one needs to do to please many different viewers is quite involved, but when I am selling my babies, I try not to exclude potential clients simply because my pages won't load properly for them because I think they use the wrong computer or the wrong browser. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif JMHO

[unrequited]

just one last comment / question on the matter, promise http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif:

Would you justify double the development costs for the sake of 1% of the viewership?

[Home Again Farm]

No. But I would also question (really question) being quoted such an amount.

I promise to quit now too. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[unrequited]

Truce HAF http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

Great thread by the way. It's given me the opportunity to express the stuff I ponder far too often. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif That's therapeutic. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Good luck with your quest for web Nirvana and a happy holiday season!!!

[Reg Corkum]

No need for anyone to quit.

The input has been educational, enlightening and much appreciated from all of you.

[Home Again Farm]

Unrequited,

Here's to therapy, web nirvana, a happy holiday season and pumpkin pie (the last is for Reg)!

And to our horses, without which all this web stuff would be moot anyway. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Reg Corkum]

Well its the day before christmas and all is calm. I think tonight I will take a little drive with a few friends to see the lights around town.

On a personal note, I tend to get a little depressed about this time of year, and this morning I think I found out why.

I had a dream about my dad last night. It was an interesting dream. We were having a reunion in the old house. I lost my dad two years ago this christmas. It was a nice dream in that he was there and yet I knew he was gone, but it sure was nice to see him. The walls were bare and the old house had been vacant for sometime, but the fact that we were all together made it quite special.

Enjoy your holidays everyone. In an odd way, that dream brought me peace of mind.

[jumpgirl]

Keep your chin up Reg. Take warmth in your dreams and memories. Hold them close to your heart.

[Draygonfyne]

Another vote for the work of nthDegree Solutions.

I've had them do a prelim outline for a new site for me ...and it's incredible. I made the mistake and tried to learn it myself but crashed everything.... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif....so just have a horrible temporary site up right now.

Excellent design...very crisp, clean and eye-catching. I can't wait for the new year when I hope to be able to get it launched.

[unrequited]

That is a beautiful dream. It is not often that we recognize the occasions when our loved ones come to visit us this way. It sounds like its poignancy made it very clear for you. How delightful. The imagery is truly bittersweet. 'Tis a magical time indeed.

I will be taking a time out for Christmas this year. No family, no friends, just me and my thoughts. For I too seek a stillness that will hopeful lend itself to a similar moment of clarity. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sadsmile.gif I will then surface again on boxing day to a lovely ride in the deep white snow with my trusty steed. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Home Again Farm]

Wishing you more lovely dreams, Reg.

I think that many folks have a difficult time during the holidays. I know that I do. Many, many losses over the last couple of decades have ended possibilities of big family gatherings. Now I try to do what unrequited describes. My sweet hubby and I don't exchange gifts other than time spent together and our enjoyment of the tree and the lovely music of the season. I try to reflect on things that do give me peace and feelings of gratitude (which are many).

And when this blasted rib heals, I have to hit the exercise bike and shove away from the table -- but that is next week. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Hoping all have a peaceful and fulfilling holiday.

[unrequited]

I came across this quote and thought of you RC. It's on topic as it was one of the many rotating quotes that have been loading into the web based email that I have started using:

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein

Here's to joyous life. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

[Reg Corkum]

Dad's birthday would have been on Christmas Day and I am just having a lot of memories. Nice memories. This one's for you Dad.

Father was a family hero...a modest patient man with a huge heart.

[bdzaugis]

I will have to say tat being able to add/edit and delete information for your own websites is the most important thing to a Farm:

2nd is search engine submissions.

We have been working on self manged website that users can update as needed and even upload thier own images online. it does limit the format a bit(can not be as creative) but can be a real benifit to people that need to add and change things on a regualr bassis.

see osgoodequineart.com for one site that does this. She adds her own images to the site and we watermark them on the upload.

we have several others that add updated to their sites regualry. highpoint hanoverians wasd a site that the webdesigner went AWOL on and we were already habdling the hosting on. the owner add new photos and sale updates all the time.

For breeders geting seen and sales on big site helps. We generate allot of horse sales on wwwarmbloods.com for the breeders that have sites and it a benifit to the US breeders and US riders.

By the way brightnight Media does not do any of our sites... we took over a few of them reacently as they were not responsive.

Beth

[Reg Corkum]

thanks for the input...bdzaugie

[Reg Corkum]

I found this site to be both attractive and well presented in general of the breeder variety.

http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.de/

[Reg Corkum]

On the note of research and finding new and interesting material, it is interesting how powerful a simplistic site can be when content becomes everything.

Flash sites may be slow and tedious for some but if you take this site for instance, a flash site download would be little to nothing by comparison.

However as a research and reference site, this one has enormous power in my opinion with little to no graphic appeal at all.

I am sure there are those out there that would sit for hours to see what it has to offer.

I saw this on another thread and found it very interesting as a visual tool in marketing stallions, certainly a departure from stills but in itself excellent in many ways.

http://www.horse-gate.com/hengstvideos/index_tab_e.html

[Hocus Focus]

I was hoping to have a brand new website by now. I however didn't realize that after months of waiting later, my webdesigner of choice seems to have put me on permanent "ignore". The space was purchased, the information was forwarded, tons of photos have been sent, and a nice template was suggested to me and then....silence! Just a simple No would have been nice, at the very least.

I respect the fact that other people have lots on their plate but I need to get this done in this lifetime! The clock is ticking! The greatest irony of it all is how the title of this thread seems to be larger than life in my head at the moment. This is exactly how it has come to be.

So time to rethink this and move on!

[Sonesta]

Reg, sorry you don't have a site yet, but I'm sure it will be gorgeous when you do. Here is a link to the site of equine photographer, Bob Langrish.

http://www.boblangrish.com/

I give you this link so you can see how he has marked his photos with a large watermark to discourage folks from downloading and using them without permission. Good idea, I think.

[Home Again Farm]

Reg, you have a PT.

[Hocus Focus]

Thanks Sonesta and Mary Lou.

I am on the hunt here again to make this happen. LOL

[Home Again Farm]

Check your pts again.

[Oldenburg Mom]

Hey Reg.

The first is Peter Ruig's ... Paard Hill Farms. I'm not wild about the action shots at the bottom of the page, but the rest of the site is really wonderful. IMHO.
www.paardhillfarms.com (http://www.paardhillfarms.com)

And our own Home Again Farm has a lovely site...
www.homeagainfarm.com (http://www.homeagainfarm.com)

I would say probably the most important feature of BOTH sites, at least for me, is contact information is EASY to find. I may skim their site, but really, when it comes down to it, if I'm going to do business with them I want to talk to them. And not wait days for an answer. Again, JMHO.


Now, these are horse sites, not photographer's sites. But

[Hocus Focus]

Thanks O'Ma_Ha..... LOL

[How Bout No (Karrie)]

not sure if it is to late or not, but here are a few companies who made several websites I like

http://www.circuitdesigns.net/
They also do photography themself, so they may be able to relate to what you want/need out of a website. They actually did Lazy J's website and others. Very simply to look at, but a professional look also.

http://energize.info/
They did Iron Spring's website and Terry Miller (photographer). Again, not busy, but very professional.

[TappyShoes]

Not sure how busy she is but Wendy Murray in Virginia does great work - her email address is: vablonde25@aol.com
One of the websites she's done is:
http://www.elfenridge.com/index2.htm

[Hocus Focus]

:D :lol: :) :winkgrin: :cool: ;) :eek: :yes: :eek: ;) :cool: :winkgrin: :lol: :D :)

Thanks but I believe I am in progress. Mockups and quotes in the works. I will definitely keep you posted. I like what I see so far. I may end up not so wildly out there as I had dreamed but then again dreaming is just dreaming, so time for a reality check and moving along with the next phase of my "internet life"....sigh...LOL :eek:

Shoot him! He's Mad!!! Wait, no!!!! Let's put him in pictures!!!! Better yet... Let's put him on Ignore!!!! Done!!!!

a delicate silence fills the air...bliss...wiggles toes...smiles and sighs a huge sigh.

[Hocus Focus]

:sadsmile: :cry: :( :yes: :no: :yes: :no: :sadsmile: :cry: :( :mad: :o :confused: ....and furthermore....:lol: :yes: :winkgrin: ;)


:D :lol: :) :winkgrin: :cool: ;) :eek: :yes: :eek: ;) :cool: :winkgrin: :lol: :D :)

Thanks but I believe I am in progress. Mockups and quotes in the works. I will definitely keep you posted. I like what I see so far. I may end up not so wildly out there as I had dreamed but then again dreaming is just dreaming, so time for a reality check and moving along with the next phase of my "internet life"....sigh...LOL :eek:

Shoot him! He's Mad!!! Wait, no!!!! Let's put him in pictures!!!! Better yet... Let's put him on Ignore!!!! Done!!!!

a delicate silence fills the air...bliss...wiggles toes...smiles and sighs a huge sigh.

[Oldenburg Mom]

Better yet... Let's put him on Ignore!!!! Done!!!!

a delicate silence fills the air...bliss...wiggles toes...smiles and sighs a huge sigh.

You're soooo funny, Reg. I love your discussions with yourself. :yes: :lol:

[Hocus Focus]

It's the early signs of senility... can't wait for the advanced stages!!!! Ignorance is bliss!!!

My site is looking awesome O'Ma_Ha! Don't you love that version of your name?

[Whitehedge Farm]

Look at www.equinevideocreations.com. She does my site and quite a few others now. Also does great video editing jobs :)

[Hocus Focus]

Just a couple of questions for those in the know... when a photographer is putting together a website, for image use, what is considered adequate in credit? Problems that arise are sometimes the work samples from large classes that you have kept and selected are representative of what you like in a standard but when it comes down to it, it is hard to credit a photo if you don't know the name of horse or rider.

What would you do? Credit the show and division? They may not have won the class but they may have just been spectacular in a given moment.

Just wondering as I have been accumulating shots I would really like to use but I don't want to generate bad feelings with anyone by doing so? All images are chosen based on a criteria of meeting a cetain standard, so it is not as if this is an uncomplimentary image being shown. I am curious as to what is considered proper etiquette in this type of situation. I know in a lot of cases, there have been some quite amazing photos that have never been seen by the riders and owners due to schedules and all the other chaos that is involved in horse showing. It for me would be wonderful to bring forward some of these images and show them just how spectacular they were. The odd thing about being a photographer is you may not know the people involved but sometimes there are photos you just cannot forget.

I am not wanting to step on toes in creating this site, but I have a feeling of how I want the site to be and hope to achieve it without a lot of restriction, so the best approach I think is to eliminate the problems before they arise and if I cannot go in that direction, then I prefer to know it now rather than later.

If there are any savvy legal people here who know the limits of the law, I would really like to hear your input.

Thank you.

[Sonesta]

Most photographer sites don't give any info about the horse or rider and none is required if you took the photo at a public event. You own the photo and can use it any way you want.

[KimPeterson]

I found dreamweaver easy to use, I am still learning but enjoy it and can update my site any time I want and change it without contacting anyone. I can upload video, graphics, ect.. my website costs me about $200 a year with the domain and webspace - the software I bought a few years ago and have the books but really enjoy it and it isn't confusing at all. I would rather have total control than pay someone else to do the site.

[JSWiley]

Just saw this thread and thought I'd throw myself out there for anyone interested. I also have a web/graphic design business, Equine Designers. View more at http://www.equinedesigners.com/ (http://www.equinedesigners.com)

[dressurpferd01]

You do realize you just resurrected a 5 year old thread, right?

[JSWiley]

Nope. :) Didn't realize it was 5 years old. Sorry about that!

[Valentina_32926]

My site was built by hand in HTML. No bells and whistles.

It loads very quickly because of its simplicity.

www.oakhollowstable.com (http://www.oakhollowstable.com)


I think the number one thing with a web site for someone in business is fast loading.

Good point re different browsers.

The HTML class I took had us check the web site through different browsers.

Sally

I clicked on this site and Sally is correct - VERY fast loading, easy to navigate:D (but mare pages won't load :mad:).

At home I have dial-up, faster connection at work - but I still disconnect when it takes a while to load. :yes:

[Equilibrate]

If you are looking for visually stunning websites for equestrian businesses (and any other for that matter) then you need Carolynne Smith and Pixel Graphix

Her work is stunning. You can check out her work here Pixel Graphics (http://www.pixelgraphixdesign.com/)

She has more of her newer designed on her FB page (https://www.facebook.com/#!/PixelGraphixDesign)

Carolynne is joy to work with and does wonderful work.

[L&L]

Big bold and beautiful..

http://www.remiblot.com/

[Oakstable]

My web site done by hand in HTML has been replaced by one done in Wordpress.

I am so busy creating a digital video marketing business that I have not had time to go back and fix the mare pages. Sorry about that.

[Blonde Filly]

Liz Hall did my site
http://www.norsire.com

She has lots of examples here on this link
http://www.lizardgraphics.com

Here portfolio of like 20 some sites she's done
http://www.lizardgraphics.com/port.html

Good luck with you new web site! :)

[Remi Blot Creative]

Hi L&L

Thanks to add my equestrian webdesign portfolio (http://www.remiblot.com) in this list.
Whatever you built, the website should:


Be easy to maintain
Should be a basis for the future years and extendable
The design should be present on all pages and not only on the frontpage.
The website should not loose it shapes by adding content
The website code should help the SEO work from the first day online.
It should bring a unique corporate image to the business.
Without forgetting that it should stay affordable, even if it looks incredibly good.


this is what we care of in the daily work.
Remi at remiblot.com (http://www.remiblot.com)

[MCarverS]

Hi L&L

Thanks to add my equestrian webdesign portfolio (http://www.remiblot.com) in this list.
Whatever you built, the website should:


Be easy to maintain
Should be a basis for the future years and extendable
The design should be present on all pages and not only on the frontpage.
The website should not loose it shapes by adding content
The website code should help the SEO work from the first day online.
It should bring a unique corporate image to the business.
Without forgetting that it should stay affordable, even if it looks incredibly good.


this is what we care of in the daily work.
Remi at remiblot.com (http://www.remiblot.com)

Great advice!

[Hocus Focus]

Nice to see this old thread revived. Must read it all again. I have become more of a blogger recently. It fits both my budget and my schedule. However, I must say there are incredible sites out there and kudos to those who know how to build them.

[Softskills]

Try MES. Murphy Equine Services. Fabulous new marketing an design company!