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purplnurpl
Dec. 13, 2011, 10:56 AM
Cute little paint horse jumps HARD to the right over fences.
Like, bust off my cheek on the red flag kind of hard.
Like, he takes off in the middle and lands by the right standard. HARD right.

His left hind and left back are weak. So yes, we work on strength.

**I had the Fredericks DVDs at one point and Lucinda mentioned she had a horse who jumped right and to cure this she always turned X direction on the landing.

I can't remember what direction she turned...and for the life of me my visual imagination can't figure it out which direction would help.

ex: if I plan on turning left, I might accidentally drift right in order to make a wider turn.
or,
if I plan on turning right, I might look right and my horse will want to drift right.
My brain is having it's own fight with the visuals. :cool:

We use lots of placement poles, usually jump Xs, and build crap piles all on the right side of fences to help keep him straight but he just lands on top of everything as he feels. :lol:

I also like to counter canter around the corner to my exercises in either direction which helps me keep his shoulder straight.
This actually helps the MOST.

I also do a bit of jump and then stop straight kind of stuff...followed by a pop on the shoulder or haunch according to what has drifted.

Anyone know what Lucinda said about her right difter in that DVD?
I gave my set away to a COTHer last year. ;)

RAyers
Dec. 13, 2011, 11:05 AM
My last guy pushed hard right as well. I aimed left to right over the fence and/or turned left after the fence.

cllane1
Dec. 13, 2011, 11:07 AM
Maybe flick your crop by his right eye as you're jumping, so he thinks he's gotten too close to the standards?

Robby Johnson
Dec. 13, 2011, 11:11 AM
Turning after the jump conditions the horse to expect something AFTER he jumps. You're trying to correct the issue AS he jumps. Determine an exercise/protocol/practice that will assist in this effort.

You mention he's weak behind on the left. That was my thought (well, not "weak left behind!") when I read the thread title ... "What's going on with his anatomy?"

I would investigate that further, then determine what you can do to strengthen him bilaterally. If jumping must remain part of the program, you might try angling him from right to left on approach/take-off.

Good luck!

bornfreenowexpensive
Dec. 13, 2011, 11:17 AM
I have one that does this.

If they jump hard to the right, jumping on a right circle is usually easier to keep them straight for me.

I have more trouble if I'm either turning from the left to the fence or after.

To me it is less critical as to the direction you turn after the fence as that you had them straight to the fence and on take off.

I know a TON of exercises to help with this. We often put a pole up on top of the right standard with the left side down...like / So if they jump right, they jump a bigger fence. You still have to make sure you aim to keep them STRAIGHT on take off and still aim to the middle of the fence. Just make sure you leave space between the the / pole and the jump so if they hit it, it has room to fall.

Placing rails both set perpend. to the fence etc.

Last but not least ..... LOTS of just right leg over the fence and lots of lateral work on the ground moving off your right leg.


ETA: I also agree with Robby...if they are jump hard Right it usually means they are pushing more with their left hind than right.

Ajierene
Dec. 13, 2011, 11:44 AM
One of my trainer's horses does this, or rather tends to drift left. His is not so much an anatomy/weakness issue but a bigness/striding issue. You have to keep him infront of your leg and have impulsion to the jump. He can canter stride over 4', so scope is not an issue either.

If you do not have him infront of your leg and solid to the jump, he will drift left instead of changing his striding or chipping in.

lstevenson
Dec. 13, 2011, 01:40 PM
Jump on a left circle. And when you make straight approaches, land and turn left. And make sure you use both reins to steer - both reins to the left and your right leg to ask for your left turn. If he gets his neck bent to the left, he will tend to drift right, so keep the neck straight.

Ajierene also makes a great point. The horses that like to dive to one direction over a jump are often behind the leg at takeoff. Remember that forwardness creates straightness.



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subk
Dec. 13, 2011, 01:42 PM
Couple things that haven't been mentioned. Does he jump hard right if you free jump him? It would be interesting to see how much your ride is affecting the behavior. Check you're aids on the left. I'm sure your closing off the right but sometimes we're not as good at being independent with our aids/balanced as we need to be. Make sure you are softening to the left as much as your closing off the right. On subtle drifts you can often address them by softening the opposite aids instead of strengthening the obvious one.

PNWjumper
Dec. 13, 2011, 01:57 PM
In addition to what's been mentioned, approach your fences to the right of center (the direction he drifts) and push him left starting a stride or two out and over the fence. You can set poles out to help...you set them perpendicular to the jump dead center with the goal to approach to the right of the pole and land to the left.

I've had a couple that came to me with extreme one-sidedness issues and my 3-part "fix" has been 1) flatwork 2) circles over fences (I prefer to circle a right-diver to the right to get them picking up their right shoulder rather than dropping it, which is even easier to the left) and 3) riding the majority of our jumps right to left.

bornfreenowexpensive
Dec. 13, 2011, 02:01 PM
Jump on a left circle. And when you make straight approaches, land and turn left. And make sure you use both reins to steer - both reins to the left and your right leg to ask for your left turn. If he gets his neck bent to the left, he will tend to drift right, so keep the neck straight.



I guess I disagree. I know on my horse who jumps to the right. If I'm turning to the fence from the left (like on a left circle) it is 10X harder to keep his shoulders straight get him to jump straight. If I'm turning from the right on a right circle....I can keep his shoulders straighter and therefore he doesn't jump to to right. Similarly...if I'm coming from the left, I basically need to think counter bend to keep his shoulders straight....and this is why the counter canter works better for the OP...by doing so, she is probably keeping his shoulders straighter.

I have one that jumps left....same thing. Coming off a left turn to the fence is a ton easier to keep him straight both before and over the fence.


I think it really depends as to WHY they are jumping off to one direction or the other.

To me you correct it by getting the horse straight to the fence and pushing off equally....not really off the turn afterwards. But on the right circle, it is easier to get the right hind leg engaged and then have it push straight than on a circle to the left for a horse who drifts right.

Now if they are falling in on the circle...you need to go back to flat work and fix it there.

And if they are disregarding either leg...you fix that first on the flat. Which if a horse jumps to the right EVEN with your right leg on them (and left leg off) and you coming in straight...you need to go back to flat work and get them moving off your right leg and engaging that right hind.

purplnurpl
Dec. 13, 2011, 02:06 PM
My last guy pushed hard right as well. I aimed left to right over the fence and/or turned left after the fence.

Reed's brain is backwards today.

purplnurpl
Dec. 13, 2011, 02:11 PM
Turning after the jump conditions the horse to expect something AFTER he jumps. You're trying to correct the issue AS he jumps. Determine an exercise/protocol/practice that will assist in this effort.

You mention he's weak behind on the left. That was my thought (well, not "weak left behind!") when I read the thread title ... "What's going on with his anatomy?"

I would investigate that further, then determine what you can do to strengthen him bilaterally. If jumping must remain part of the program, you might try angling him from right to left on approach/take-off.

Good luck!

I know isn't that wild? That's why he confuses me so!!
He has a weak LEFT side.
Yet jumps from Left to Right which would be jumping dominant off the Left hind leg.
He's weird.

He's been short for years on the left hind. Then I started riding him a year ago and it's since evened out. He has had the left stifle injected in the past.
This year I did both hocks.

The issue was determined in Aug 2011 to actually be in his SI. SI received deep soft tissue injections Aug 2011.

VicariousRider
Dec. 13, 2011, 02:13 PM
Lots of good suggestions here already. Along these lines:



Last but not least ..... LOTS of just right leg over the fence and lots of lateral work on the ground moving off your right leg.


I used to wear a bigger spur on my right foot. The mare dove right after jumps and jumped right when she was green and I would have stronger reinforcement there to send her left (keeping her straight).

purplnurpl
Dec. 13, 2011, 02:22 PM
Couple things that haven't been mentioned. Does he jump hard right if you free jump him? It would be interesting to see how much your ride is affecting the behavior. Check you're aids on the left. I'm sure your closing off the right but sometimes we're not as good at being independent with our aids/balanced as we need to be. Make sure you are softening to the left as much as your closing off the right. On subtle drifts you can often address them by softening the opposite aids instead of strengthening the obvious one.

errr...my horses don't get to free jump.
I'm too old to move everything and set up a shoot to free jump one horse...and then move it all back out. :D

So my other two horses had really bad drift left issues. :lol:
This one has a drift right issue.
The change makes me happy and confident.

He drifts REALLY bad when he's worried.

Here he is. About to take off being his worried self:
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p189/xckaboom/TobyatGW007.jpg

and here he is 2 seconds later just before landing.
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p189/xckaboom/toby-1.jpg
how did he do that in the air???

SUBK: don't you think I look independent of my horse in that last one?
LMAO! :lol:

RAyers
Dec. 13, 2011, 02:27 PM
Reed's brain is backwards today.

Yes, yes, right to left over the fences.

A good possibility is that when he is worried, rather than shorten front to back he goes right to give himself room at the fence. That is what I see in the pictures posted.

subk
Dec. 13, 2011, 02:33 PM
SUBK: don't you think I look independent of my horse in that last one?
LMAO! :lol:
Well at least your bum isn't slamming down on him while he's clearing the rail with his back end! (Sometimes you have to work harder at finding a posititve than others! ;) )

Musing here...Looking at the first picture I almost think you would have had better results if he was coming a little right to left, but bent around your right leg instead of your left. It almost like correcting a popped shoulder--the more you use your inside hand the more they pop it to the outside.

purplnurpl
Dec. 13, 2011, 02:34 PM
So I just went and looked at his photos and there is no hind leg favoritism upon take off.
70% are even back leg take offs, 15% right hind, 15% left hind.

oh, and I found two good photos.
this is pretty much how I end up jumping with him. With the open left rein.
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p189/xckaboom/openrein.jpg

and here I am at home working hard to keep him straight.
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p189/xckaboom/tobyjumpsright.jpg

here he is NOT drifting right!
aaahahhaha.
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p189/xckaboom/266459_10150642990710212_664505211_19237670_452439 3_o.jpg

I'm pretty much always independent.
Whether or not I'm more frequently independently balanced or completely independent of all contact with my horse has not been determined.

lstevenson
Dec. 13, 2011, 02:34 PM
I guess I disagree. I know on my horse who jumps to the right. If I'm turning to the fence from the left (like on a left circle) it is 10X harder to keep his shoulders straight get him to jump straight. If I'm turning from the right on a right circle....I can keep his shoulders straighter and therefore he doesn't jump to to right. Similarly...if I'm coming from the left, I basically need to think counter bend to keep his shoulders straight....and this is why the counter canter works better for the OP...by doing so, she is probably keeping his shoulders straighter.


No doubt it's easier to turn right on a horse that wants to drift or fall right. But working on correct left turns after the jump will fix the problem (eventually). It's about bringing the shoulders over to the left.



http://www.MyVirtualEventingCoach.com
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Robby Johnson
Dec. 13, 2011, 02:35 PM
The issue was determined in Aug 2011 to actually be in his SI. SI received deep soft tissue injections Aug 2001.

Probably time for an update. :D

How does the rest of his lumbo-pelvic region look/function?

purplnurpl
Dec. 13, 2011, 02:37 PM
Yes, yes, right to left over the fences.

A good possibility is that when he is worried, rather than shorten front to back he goes right to give himself room at the fence. That is what I see in the pictures posted.

agreed!! but he's on his left lead!
That must be confusing for him....
possibly why in the next shot I was totally unattached to him. Braaahahaaha
We have the 2 camera clicks of him mid air also and they are freakin hysterical.

purplnurpl
Dec. 13, 2011, 02:42 PM
Probably time for an update. :D

How does the rest of his lumbo-pelvic region look/function?

there was a typeo in the 2nd date listed.
He was checked in mid August. 3 months ago.

It's actually darn even! No hunters bump. Hips are even and very nice and round. Hip bones don't stick out all. I was able to glide right over his flank area when I body clipped him a week ago. I'm actually really proud of his condition.
He looks waaaay bigger than he did in the past too. My Mom is convinced he grew at age 10. lol. The muscle he's put on makes him look larger.

His left lower back region has always had a bit less muscling.
It's even now though. It evened out in the late summer months.
I started riding him Oct 2010. So he's been working for 13 months or so now.

rthonor
Dec. 13, 2011, 03:57 PM
If my pony is worry about a jump, he will put his shoulders left at the base of the jump. He only does it on jumps he is worried about. His right hind is his weaker hind, but I wondered if it was a vision preference thing and maybe he wanted to see the jump more with his right eye.

bornfreenowexpensive
Dec. 13, 2011, 04:15 PM
No doubt it's easier to turn right on a horse that wants to drift or fall right. But working on correct left turns after the jump will fix the problem (eventually). It's about bringing the shoulders over to the left.



http://www.MyVirtualEventingCoach.com
Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/pages/My-Virtual-Eventing-Coach/121366797928434)


ummmn No....it is not easier in my horse's case nor my horse who jumps left. They are harder to turn correctly in the direction of their drift. But I think this is one of the things that you have to see the particular horse/rider.

Again...it depends on WHY they are jumping off to one side. In my case, this horse wants to lean on that shoulder and rein. So he is jumping through the shoulder. If I put his bad shoulder on the outside of a circle...it is easier for him to jump through it and drift out...he runs through that leg and rein more easily.

If I'm jumping on a right circle (bad shoulder drift on the inside), I can push him off my right leg to the left rein and keep him up straight before the fence, and the circle encourages his shoulders more left so I stop the drift because I've stopped that shoulder from popping out.

I could see with horses who are against a leg on landing and drifting on landing (i.e. landing and going right) possible being fixed by turning left...but if the right drift is because they are jumping through their right shoulder/leaning on their right shoulder....you don't fix this on landing. You fix this before the fence and on take off.

Auburn
Dec. 13, 2011, 04:38 PM
Have you tried a counter bend when you are turning off of the left lead?

Right now, it looks like you are mostly using your left rein as a leading rein. Since he is on his right shoulder, you need to straighten it. Doing a counter bend as you make the turn, with a whole lot of right leg on the girth, should help some. Thnk of using your outside aides to turn, then keep on using them to keep him straight.

Two of my horses have wanted to jump left to right. They always landed on their left lead, too. Does your horse have a lead preference when landing?

What I learned, by watching videos that my DH took of me jumping, was that I ride with my right leg farther back than my left, so I am asking for the left lead, as well as not supporting the right side on the approach and in the air.

Does that make sense? When I think about fixing my right leg, then Tessie's jump gets straighter and I can occasionally get the right lead afterward.

bornfreenowexpensive
Dec. 13, 2011, 04:40 PM
oh, and I found two good photos.
this is pretty much how I end up jumping with him. With the open left rein.
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p189/xckaboom/openrein.jpg




At least with my horse. If I try and correct the drift with an opening left rein...it would almost let him drift more right.

enjoytheride
Dec. 13, 2011, 05:05 PM
I know you want to fix the issue via training, but I've seen horses running around with bit burrs on one side of their head so don't feel like you're alone!

lstevenson
Dec. 13, 2011, 08:46 PM
In my case, this horse wants to lean on that shoulder and rein. So he is jumping through the shoulder. If I put his bad shoulder on the outside of a circle...it is easier for him to jump through it and drift out...he runs through that leg and rein more easily.



That's why you have to use your outside aids to make the turn - to get more control of that outside shoulder when turning left. Teaching the horse to be more responsive to the outside aids that direction, and to bring his shoulders to the left as you turn him left. That's what the horse will learn if you jump him on a left circle.

Think about this: If a horse wants to lean on its right shoulder on the flat (as many do), he is doing so because his left hind leg is not sufficiently underneath his body. Yes you can and should bend and flex him slightly to the right to lighten that right shoulder, but with a lack of focus on the left hind leg, the problem will show up constantly.

The long term fix will be bringing his shoulders to the left, so they are in front of the hindquarters. And even taking it a step further and bringing the horse into shoulder in to the left.

Flatwork that involves lots of shoulder in to the left and haunches in to the right will help the horse that habitually wants to lean on the right shoulder.

When approaching jumps on a horse that wants to dive to the right, flexion to the right is a great idea.....but I would still practice jumping on a left circle, using as much outside aids as necessary - even to the point of counter bend. Whatever it takes to get the horse to start to bring his shoulders over to the left. Once you are achieving that you will find that your right drift is gone.



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bornfreenowexpensive
Dec. 14, 2011, 06:44 AM
Whatever it takes to get the horse to start to bring his shoulders over to the left. Once you are achieving that you will find that your right drift is gone.




We agree on this. Yes...with my horse who drifts to right , If I'm coming from a left circle, I have to turn from the outside aids (which I always do) to the point of a counterbend--because without a counterbend, he will blow through my outside aids.

BUT it is easier for me to correct his shoulders turning from the right---because I'm moving him into a right bend, moving him off my right leg and the circle helps encourage him to move left. Perhaps it is just me or my two horses....but even Jimmy and others agreed...and others riding him felt the same thing.

In the end, we are roughly saying the same thing...you fix this through the shoulders before the fence and on take off more than a turn afterwards.

purplnurpl
Dec. 14, 2011, 10:05 AM
Flatwork that involves lots of shoulder in to the left and haunches in to the right will help the horse that habitually wants to lean on the right shoulder.

When approaching jumps on a horse that wants to dive to the right, flexion to the right is a great idea.....but I would still practice jumping on a left circle, using as much outside aids as necessary - even to the point of counter bend. Whatever it takes to get the horse to start to bring his shoulders over to the left. Once you are achieving that you will find that your right drift is gone.

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this is good stuff.

I like the talk between you and bornfree.

As I was sitting here visualizing this work I also remembered that his other physical issue is that his right jaw bone was broken early in his life.
He has a big calcification bump right where the nose band needs to go.

So he is less accepting on the right side. He prefers to go left and holds the left rein very very well and it's very hard for me to get him on the right rein when working on DQ pony stuffs. Especially because my left leg is weaker.

This may be from the jaw or maybe his jaw is a moot point and the issue is really from his left back. He'd rather bend right than bend left and use that inside hind...but then he jumps just fine off that left hind so I guess it's a mystery.

I have found that counter canter on a circle is easiest for me when working on the drift. I warm up over the X with canter pole on either side a few times in both directions. When I let him have true canter he is so soft and yummy...and usually is pretty darn straight. Until he sleeps that night and wakes up the next day.

This is because counter canter holds his right shoulder up and then through a square turn he's nice and striaght. I'm a fan of square turns.

seems like I've been on the right track all along then. humph.

But I wanted some magic.
Come'on guys.
Can't someone wiggle their nose and make my horse's drift vanish?

ACMEeventing
Dec. 14, 2011, 10:41 AM
this is good stuff.

But I wanted some magic.
Come'on guys.
Can't someone wiggle their nose and make my horse's drift vanish?

I just crossed my arms and did the "I Dream of Jeannie" head nod. Go see if it worked :lol:

p.s. Did you get your helmet cam sorted out? We demand video!

bornfreenowexpensive
Dec. 14, 2011, 10:56 AM
wish there was a magic fix!

You basically need to do what ever works best for you and your horse to square up his shoulders.

I do think that can be different depending on the horse. But thinking square turns helps with me...although it sounds like my horse with the worst drift is different from yours. He WANTS to be in the rein of the direction of his drift...to a fault...he wants to lean on that rein and lord help you if you pull on it cause he will pull right back;) He is much much harder to turn in the direction of his drift.

In your one picture, your horse is twisting right more than drifting right to me. I have one mare that does this too...especially when she isn't as strong behind to really sit to jump. I think of this differently than my horse with a really bad drift.

For her...I still do the same thing...focus on keeping her shoulders square. Square turns to the fences and lots and lots of right leg. If you open your left rein...she will just lean on that and twist more. So I'm actually better with a little more right rein and a LOT more right leg while making sure I don't have my left leg on. With my mare....it all goes away when I get her stronger behind. She is not really as crooked as my first horse....but for her, even if straight before, if she doesn't have the strength she will twist to get over the fence.

And unfortuantely...either way...more dressage helps;)

Good luck!

RAyers
Dec. 14, 2011, 11:00 AM
As I was sitting here visualizing this work I also remembered that his other physical issue is that his right jaw bone was broken early in his life.
He has a big calcification bump right where the nose band needs to go.

So he is less accepting on the right side. He prefers to go left and holds the left rein very very well and it's very hard for me to get him on the right rein when working on DQ pony stuffs. Especially because my left leg is weaker.

This may be from the jaw or maybe his jaw is a moot point and the issue is really from his left back. He'd rather bend right than bend left and use that inside hind...but then he jumps just fine off that left hind so I guess it's a mystery.


But I wanted some magic.
Come'on guys.
Can't someone wiggle their nose and make my horse's drift vanish?


Magic fix: try the Miklem Bridle.

In all honesty, it may take some pressure off the calcified areas and make your horse more comfortable if he is trying to avoid the hand.

Dry Clean Only
Dec. 16, 2011, 07:54 AM
I think RAyers could be right about him trying to give himself more room when he's worried. I think that horses with hind end issues are more comfortable jumping from a longer distance so that they don't have to rock back as much when they jump. Maybe this is habit for him even though he is feeling better.

How about lots of bouces poles to very tall X-rails and gymnastics with tall X's, and riding to a slightly linger distance to single fences until he builds strength too? He might just need to relearn how to jump with all the new muscling he has.