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mustangsal85
Dec. 6, 2011, 01:50 PM
I didn't want to post this in trenches over on the thread on Olympic horses being bought and not made because I felt this deserved it's own. I have followed Marilyn's story since she decided to turn Udonna into an eventer with mild interest, and every time I read an article or an interview I grow more respect for her ambition and drive. I have no problem with her money. Do I wish I had her money? Of course! But the fact that she is able to do what she loves and the fact that she is doing good things for the sport by bring more attention to it (all publicity is good publicity, yes?) is good enough for me. Looking forward to seeing her first 4* venture at Rolex, it sounds like that is what she is headed for!

http://eventingnation.com/home/2011/12/marilyn-little-meredith-buys-cavalor-demeter-1.html

sunhawk
Dec. 6, 2011, 01:56 PM
I liked her article too, and liked the way she talked about the horse and why she chose her.

Meredith Clark
Dec. 6, 2011, 03:40 PM
ew. I did not like that article at all! I feel like the author made the eventing world out to be like a bunch of catty sorority girls (and I'm a sorority girl so that means a lot :lol: )

JER
Dec. 6, 2011, 03:55 PM
Agree with Meredith, for the most part. Weird to have so much focus on jealousy.

Also, a statement like 'the United States' appalling breeding program' is, well, appalling.

While we don't have a national breeding program a la Haras Nationaux in France, there are breeders of quality event horses in this country. Maybe not enough of them, but 'appalling' is an unfair characterization.

As I said to John privately, I think the US is lacking in event riders with a good eye for a future top horse and/or a decent knowledge of breeding and bloodlines.

:)

Justa Bob
Dec. 6, 2011, 04:01 PM
Weird to have so much focus on jealousy.



Not if you read COTH forum in Eventing! All the silly threads about this or that newbie, young, monied, blah blah blah eventer. Jealousy is alive and very abundant all over these forums. EN asked MLM directly about her critics. You can find loads of those critics piling on the venom right here! So sad and silly

PonyGal08
Dec. 6, 2011, 04:09 PM
Agree with Meredith, for the most part. Weird to have so much focus on jealousy.

Also, a statement like 'the United States' appalling breeding program' is, well, appalling.

While we don't have a national breeding program a la Haras Nationaux in France, there are breeders of quality event horses in this country. Maybe not enough of them, but 'appalling' is an unfair characterization.

As I said to John privately, I think the US is lacking in event riders with a good eye for a future top horse and/or a decent knowledge of breeding and bloodlines.

:)

Agree 100%. I was disappointed with the article. I felt like every paragraph had some sort of ding, either at MLM, breeders, professionals, or eventers as a whole.

RacetrackReject
Dec. 6, 2011, 04:10 PM
ew. I did not like that article at all! I feel like the author made the eventing world out to be like a bunch of catty sorority girls (and I'm a sorority girl so that means a lot :lol: )

I'm glad you said that. It seemed like a brown-nosing suck up fluff piece at best to be completely honest. I'm not a MLM hater. I think it's great for her if she can acquire nice horses and I think she's a fantastic rider who recognized that her original horse wasn't quite the horse to get her where she wanted to go, but I also don't think she's the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ on horseback.

It doesn't make eventers petty to ask questions when someone proclaims to go about doing things in a timeframe that seems unrealistic for their intended final result. It also doesn't make eventers jealous for asking if maybe she's trying to buy her way on an Olympic team. It seems she wasn't going to make it to the Olympics in the SJ, or that she was even trying to do so, but maybe she felt she could have a chance to do so in eventing. As many people have stated, you can buy as many talented horses as you want, but if you can't ride them, it does you no good. Clearly, MLM can ride her horses so kudos to her for going after whatever she wants.

Molly Sorge
Dec. 6, 2011, 04:16 PM
Ahem, by the way, the Chronicle has also covered the news...

http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/marilyn-little-meredith-buys-top-european-horse

JER
Dec. 6, 2011, 04:21 PM
Not if you read COTH forum in Eventing! All the silly threads about this or that newbie, young, monied, blah blah blah eventer. Jealousy is alive and very abundant all over these forums.

Oh, I guess I should read these forums more often.

The response to MLM on this BB has been overwhelmingly positive from the start. There were legit questions about the brashness of her first video and whether her stated goals were realistic with Udonna. But -- with few exceptions -- posters have applauded and supported MLM's efforts in a new discipline.

There are a few people who revel in envy. We all know who they are. But they're less than a handful in number.

What surprised me about the EN interview was that an eventing media outlet would put so much focus on jealousy. Not an interesting topic, IMO, especially in light of the real news of a new, promising horse.

And as I've been saying all along, my biggest issue with the whole affair was that a CCI*** stopper (20 XC jumping pens at the most recent two CCI***s is not a positive trend. Neither is a history of rails and time in SJ.) is somehow being hailed as a 'major Olympic contender' for the US. Seriously.

:)

RacetrackReject
Dec. 6, 2011, 04:22 PM
And they did it without inferring their readers were petty and jealous people who breed worthless horses. Imagine that!

Meredith Clark
Dec. 6, 2011, 04:26 PM
Ahem, by the way, the Chronicle has also covered the news...

http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/marilyn-little-meredith-buys-top-european-horse

Now that I liked! It's so sad about Kooreman selling her and how emotional he was, but I guess that's horse business

JER
Dec. 6, 2011, 04:34 PM
And they did it without inferring their readers were petty and jealous people who breed worthless horses. Imagine that!

John deserves a lot of credit for creating and building Eventing Nation. It's a very different outlet than Chronicle of the Horse but it's a vibrant and vital part of our community.

:)

flutie1
Dec. 6, 2011, 04:41 PM
For some of you statistical types - how many American horses that were bred to be eventers/jumpers are competing currently at the 3 and 4 Star levels? This question obviously doesn't include OTTBs.

flutie1
Dec. 6, 2011, 04:47 PM
Comparing the COTH and EN articles, even though I preferred the COTH piece, I have to applaud John for bringing the jealousy issue right out in the open. Who can realistically deny that it is a reality? Yikes, not long ago, Nina got totally flamed for having the family means to purchase some nice horses to learn on.

fooler
Dec. 6, 2011, 05:00 PM
flutie1For some of you statistical types - how many American horses that were bred to be eventers/jumpers are competing currently at the 3 and 4 Star levels? This question obviously doesn't include OTTBs.

My observation:
Back in the dark ages I trained/boarded with folks who were breeding event (sport) horses of the Cormac line. One homebred was long-listed (really and truely long-listed) another competed to 2* level with several young riders. Other homebreds competed to up to Advance level with student/owners. The problem is finding someone willing to buy a well-bred horse under 3 to train themselves or willing to shell out the money for a 4+ yo with solid under saddle training from someone they know. Many prefer to buy from another trainer/barn or area or country. I watched it time and time again at that barn and at other barns with breeding programs.

I would be interested to hear what sort of history Denny and Bruce have had with their breeding programs over the years.

RacetrackReject
Dec. 6, 2011, 05:10 PM
Comparing the COTH and EN articles, even though I preferred the COTH piece, I have to applaud John for bringing the jealousy issue right out in the open. Who can realistically deny that it is a reality? Yikes, not long ago, Nina got totally flamed for having the family means to purchase some nice horses to learn on.

How many eventers are there total in the US? How many eventers post jealous rants about MLM on the internet? I'm guessing the answer to that second question is fairly low compared to the answer to the first question. So, why risk the possibility of alienating your "customers" when really you are only speaking of a small percentage of the population you just painted with a rather broad brush?

J3D1
Dec. 6, 2011, 05:13 PM
I thought Molly wrote a great article and frankly I preferred it to mine but I certainly don't regret raising the issues of jealousy and the state of US breeding. This story is interesting in that the response to the purchase is in my opinion just as significant as the purchase itself. Negative public responses to stories like this reach out to impact not only the riders and their families but also the owners and efforts to syndicate the horses and ultimately the direction of US high performace eventing. As with any issue, there are many good and many bad reasons to either support or dislike the news.

There's an opportunity here to look at whether or not it is right for a rider to buy an expensive horse from Europe and what that says about the US breeding program. As I replied to JER privately, "the United States' appalling breeding program" was way too broad of a statement and certainly a poor choice of words. There are clearly many fabulous breeders in the US, including JER, who we have featured on EN. However, such a large number of high profile European purchases by US riders suggests what most of us already know--that Europe is ahead of the US in terms of overall top to bottom breeding of high performance event horses. To say that suggesting jealousy is a component of the negative reaction insults anyone who reads the post just doesn't make sense.

fooler
Dec. 6, 2011, 05:13 PM
To the best of my knowledge, the Little family have handled themselves well for multiple decades in the horse world.

MLM "plan" to do a 4* in 12 months was ambious at best. She showed intelligence by understanding fairly quickly that Udonna was not happy eventing and replacing her with horses who do enjoy eventing. I don't know if she will qualify for Rolex or not, alot can happen between now and then. She does appear to have more respect for this discipline and is ready to put in the work.
I am not offended by her staying at the upper levels. She has enough experience to handle prelim and above - much like old school eventing where Training level was considered the entry level.

fooler
Dec. 6, 2011, 05:19 PM
I thought Molly wrote a great article and frankly I preferred it to mine but I certainly don't regret raising the issues of jealousy and the state of US breeding. This story is interesting in that the response to the purchase is in my opinion just as significant as the purchase itself. Negative public responses to stories like this reach out to impact not only the riders and their families but also the owners and efforts to syndicate the horses and ultimately the direction of US high performace eventing. As with any issue, there are many good and many bad reasons to either support or dislike the news.

There's an opportunity here to look at whether or not it is right for a rider to buy an expensive horse from Europe and what that says about the US breeding program. As I replied to JER privately, "the United States' appalling breeding program" was way too broad of a statement and certainly a poor choice of words. There are clearly many fabulous breeders in the US, including JER, who we have featured on EN. However, such a large number of high profile European purchases by US riders suggests what most of us already know--that Europe is ahead of the US in terms of overall top to bottom breeding of high performance event horses.

I believe Europe is ahead of the US in terms of promoting their stock. There is truely wonderful US event horses. But it is really "sexy" to ride a horse bred/purchased from GB/Europe/Australia/NZ, not so much from the breeder in NC or GA or NH or PA. . .

PonyGal08
Dec. 6, 2011, 05:37 PM
I believe Europe is ahead of the US in terms of promoting their stock. There is truely wonderful US event horses. But it is really "sexy" to ride a horse bred/purchased from GB/Europe/Australia/NZ, not so much from the breeder in NC or GA or NH or PA. . .

And they appear to have much more "involved" governing bodies, registries, and governments. To me that means access to more money. That's not something I feel is available in this country... here the U.S. breeding program seems to rest on "individuals" not groups.

What I found was interesting about the COTH article was that KO asked MLM to find her a horse.

fooler
Dec. 6, 2011, 06:05 PM
And they appear to have much more "involved" governing bodies, registries, and governments. To me that means access to more money. That's not something I feel is available in this country... here the U.S. breeding program seems to rest on "individuals" not groups.

What I found was interesting about the COTH article was that KO asked MLM to find her a horse.

The biggest problem I see is so many competitors are not familiar or interested in bloodlines in the US. Fortunately we have some on this BB who do take the time to share their knowledge and research.

I would love to see Year End awards for US breeders at all of the Olympic disciplines - such as USEA, USDF, USEF, etc. This would help to educate US riders/trainers and promote US breeders. Did I understand correctly that the US Jockey Club is considering tracking the Sport Horse activities of registered TB's? That would be so helpful.

Very interesting that KOC is asking MLM to find her a horse - tells you what an eye MLM has!

Molly Sorge
Dec. 6, 2011, 06:13 PM
I thought Molly wrote a great article and frankly I preferred it to mine but I certainly don't regret raising the issues of jealousy and the state of US breeding.

Thanks John, and I think this highlights a distinction that perhaps needs to be emphasized. There is a distinct difference between a 'blog,' where a writer adds their thoughts and opinions to a news item, and actual reporting of the news.

In news reporting, writers are trained to eliminate any bias or opinion from their writing. We at the Chronicle strive to present a balanced version of any news item, and we reserve personal opinion for our "Commentary" section in the front of each magazine. There, we comment as individuals on topics and issues that appear in the magazine.

The Commentary is our editorial page. Chronicle staff also occasionally blog about their experiences in covering stories, and we let our personal feeling sneak in there.

There have been quite a few times when I have been fuming about a certain topic, or overjoyed by it, and I have had to suppress said emotions in the interest of presenting the news fairly so that the reader could make their own decision about the issue.

If a topic, say importing horses versus breeding them in the U.S., arises, we address it in a feature article, interviewing various individuals who have insight into the issue. We did this extensively in regards to the chef d'equipe search earlier this year.

In blogging, individuals express their opinion much the same as we do in a Commentary. I personally do enjoy reading John's take on the eventing world, but I also keep it in the back of my mind that it's HIS take on the eventing world and its events.

Blogging and opinion have an extremely valuable place in this world, and I think John and EN play an important role in the sport of eventing. He brings up a lot of issues and slants on topics that spark a lot of constructive discussion. But, in my opinion, it's important to keep in mind the difference between the goals and missions of different outlets. EN and the Chronicle are two different entities, approaching things in different ways.

Carry on!

Molly Sorge

Divine Comedy
Dec. 6, 2011, 06:46 PM
Great post Molly, I completely agree. I love reading EN, but sometimes John's opinion and mine don't coincide and I always have to remind myself that it's a blog. But I love hearing his opinion most of the time because it's often a side that I haven't thought of and it gives me something to think about. Chronicle articles are always extremely well written, but I rarely end up thinking hard when I'm done reading. Both ways are great, but different.

Also, EN gets the news out faster than anyone else, so despite the fact that it often has opinion integrated into it, I go there for any up to the minute updates!

JER
Dec. 6, 2011, 07:02 PM
I believe Europe is ahead of the US in terms of promoting their stock. There is truely wonderful US event horses. But it is really "sexy" to ride a horse bred/purchased from GB/Europe/Australia/NZ, not so much from the breeder in NC or GA or NH or PA. . .

There's a lot of truth to this.

The dealer/distribution networks are more established overseas for a number of reasons. National breeding programs/competitions, international dealing yards, traditional methods of bringing on young horses (as with XC/hunting in Ireland/UK), proximity to other countries, etc.

It is far, far easier to set up a buying trip to Germany, Holland, Belgium, Ireland or England than it is to see an equal number of horses in the US. And once you've made the effort of going all the way there, you're more likely to convince yourself to buy. This is Human Behaviour 101.

:)

mugsgame
Dec. 6, 2011, 07:55 PM
JER is right - its a numbers game in Europe.

On average in a 3* you will see 50-70 taking part (In the UK there will be a mimimum of 90 usually but I have lowered it due to nations like Italy which have lower entries in their 3*) and we have roughly 50 in Europe? Ok so some will do multiple entries and I include CIC in this equation but that is a lot of horses at that level if someone is really in the business of buying an advanced horse.

At 2* level the numbers increase dramatically again. Location wise the majority are within 1000km of each other.

How many CIC/CCI 3* horses will be in the US? What are the average numbers for those classes? 20? That is a much smaller pool of horses and many are not on the market.

The really class horses are not being sold. The ones going are 2nd strings who are turning a nice profit and will enable the rider to get some very smart youngsters.

ZiggyStardust
Dec. 6, 2011, 08:38 PM
.

What surprised me about the EN interview was that an eventing media outlet would put so much focus on jealousy.

That's because EN is not "an eventing media outlet." It's a little vanity blog that capitalizes on the cliquishness of the horse world. It stirs the pot to get attention, and then censors any comments that don't come close enough to maintaining its image of being a legit "news" source (i.e., don't try to call them out on the seriously stupid things they sometimes say and the way they choose to spin things).

I ceased going to that site a while ago. If I wanted to go back to high school I'd find some teenagers to hang out with.

VicariousRider
Dec. 6, 2011, 08:57 PM
I think what rubs me the wrong way about the EN article is that it comes off as catty (by taking cheap shots at US breeders and equating what some see as legitimate safety concerns with jealous high-school gossip) while criticizing catty-ness. It feels hypocritical in that sense.

I had to struggle to read through that cr@p to hear about MLM's exciting new plans, passion for the sport, and love for this new mare. I think the editorializing does her more of a disservice because it insinuates that that's how she feels, too. MLM is just fine in my book without all the proselytizing on her behalf.

That kind of commentary never changes any minds anyway.... it just feeds the beast.

JER
Dec. 6, 2011, 09:12 PM
That's because EN is not "an eventing media outlet."

But it is. EN is media, and it's about eventing. Blogs are a form of media. (US law would agree. So would anyone who's seen the internet. :))


It's a little vanity blog that capitalizes on the cliquishness of the horse world. It stirs the pot to get attention, and then censors any comments that don't come close enough to maintaining its image of being a legit "news" source (i.e., don't try to call them out on the seriously stupid things they sometimes say and the way they choose to spin things).

Really?

I've never had a comment censored at EN and I'm always happy to be the bearer of unpopular opinions.

As a contributor to EN, I've never been told to uphold any kind of party line.


I ceased going to that site a while ago. If I wanted to go back to high school I'd find some teenagers to hang out with.

Ah. So you don't really know what you're talking about. But don't let that ever stop you from making criticisms!

:)

goodmorning
Dec. 6, 2011, 10:34 PM
EN is a busy blog & you must keep that in mind. Its not JD Power. I find it a bit much at times, but there are also some fabulous aspects. Yes, catty, the comments can be a step above what you read on youtube ;) and the organization lacking on the site as a whole IMO, but -- we choose to browse their pages. Its a profitable blog -- love capitalism! -- the folks at EN provide us with access to things that are interesting & informative quickly :cool:

Unfortunately, you can't watch the news or read the Boston Globe without mucking through the waters. Part of media, always has & always will be. Your job to educate yourself as a reader & take what you can from the source.

ZiggyStardust
Dec. 7, 2011, 01:38 AM
But it is. EN is media, and it's about eventing. Blogs are a form of media. (US law would agree. So would anyone who's seen the internet. :))



Really?

I've never had a comment censored at EN and I'm always happy to be the bearer of unpopular opinions.

As a contributor to EN, I've never been told to uphold any kind of party line.



Ah. So you don't really know what you're talking about. But don't let that ever stop you from making criticisms!

:)

Don't let those little smiley faces stop you from being nasty! Or jumping to conclusions about what "a while ago" means!

I've had more than one comment deleted by EN. As a contributor to that blog, I don't think you're exactly an impartial observer.

Lord these conversations remind me why I'm happier not participating.

RacetrackReject
Dec. 7, 2011, 10:32 AM
I think what rubs me the wrong way about the EN article is that it comes off as catty (by taking cheap shots at US breeders and equating what some see as legitimate safety concerns with jealous high-school gossip) while criticizing catty-ness. It feels hypocritical in that sense.

I had to struggle to read through that cr@p to hear about MLM's exciting new plans, passion for the sport, and love for this new mare. I think the editorializing does her more of a disservice because it insinuates that that's how she feels, too. MLM is just fine in my book without all the proselytizing on her behalf.

That kind of commentary never changes any minds anyway.... it just feeds the beast.

Exactly!

I'm sure John gets plenty of credit for creating and running EN, but not everyone has to support him or the choices he makes. I used to like EN, but I was not happy with the way it/he handled itself/himself in a different matter, so I don't go there very often anymore, if at all, unless I forget to check where a link is taking me, like I did when I clicked the one in this thread. That doesn't mean that I wish John or EN any bad fortune, I just don't agree with them, especially when they seem to go after the very people who brought them to where they are now.

I can't help but think that breeders in the US are in no hurry to send their horses to eventers because the market (money) is just not there like there is in other disciplines.

mustangsal85
Dec. 7, 2011, 10:55 AM
This is a great discussion!

My opinion... I appreciate the article BECAUSE it brought up the sour points that have been centric to the whole MLM story since the beginning (of her eventing career). EN is a blog, which has been stated by many on here. It isn't the Chronicle, it isn't Bloodhorse or Practical Horseman. This is an outlet for eventing news, opinions, polls, contests, updates, and interviews. It is a fantastic resource for those of us who want to keep abreast of the happenings around the world and have a little humor mixed in. Not everyone is going to appreciate or agree with what is posted, and that is perfectly fine and to be expected. But I do appreciate the article for being more brash than a traditional news article. After all, jealousy is and will always be one of the most prevalent emotions that you see in our world. Unfortunate as it is, I believe that most people's first instinct when they see a story like Nina or MLM is envy or jealousy. Some people treat it more as a "If I Had a Million Dollars" whimsy and some take it to the next level, berating these people and attacking them for having the bank account balances that they do.

What you choose to do with your jealousy is 100% your choice and 100% a reflection of your character. I applaud John for letting this article address those issues.

ACMEeventing
Dec. 7, 2011, 11:15 AM
Don't let those little smiley faces stop you from being nasty! Or jumping to conclusions about what "a while ago" means!

I've had more than one comment deleted by EN. As a contributor to that blog, I don't think you're exactly an impartial observer.

Lord these conversations remind me why I'm happier not participating.

I find it very interesting that your attitude and your signature line are polar opposites.

*shrug*

wanderlust
Dec. 7, 2011, 11:52 AM
Don't let those little smiley faces stop you from being nasty! Or jumping to conclusions about what "a while ago" means!

<snip>

Lord these conversations remind me why I'm happier not participating. Let's remember who was nasty first. It certainly wasn't JER. <wanderlust ducks and runs for cover>

LLDM
Dec. 7, 2011, 12:15 PM
Agree 100%. I was disappointed with the article. I felt like every paragraph had some sort of ding, either at MLM, breeders, professionals, or eventers as a whole.

I agree. Every paragraph seems to produce an "ouch" moment for me too.


Ahem, by the way, the Chronicle has also covered the news...

Nice article! And what I would expect from COTH. I don't expect them to be the same and viva la difference and all that... :D.


I believe Europe is ahead of the US in terms of promoting their stock. There is truely wonderful US event horses. But it is really "sexy" to ride a horse bred/purchased from GB/Europe/Australia/NZ, not so much from the breeder in NC or GA or NH or PA. . .

Yep, I agree. Europe produces great horses, but also a great Equine marking machine. It is much harder for breeders to reach their target market here - esp. ULRs. Add to that the expense of properly starting, producing and campaigning a great young horse. It is incredibly frustrating to the really great breeders I know.

As for the jealously angle... I have to admit, when I see relative new comers to eventing buying up great horses and making bids for the top spots it DOES make me a bit uncomfortable. Not because I'm jealous, at least not for myself - but more for all those other "almost there" eventers who just need a bit of a break. I guess I feel like it is just so discouraging for them.

SCFarm

flutie1
Dec. 7, 2011, 12:27 PM
Just remember for those who talk about individuals "buying their way to the top." They still have to jump all the jumps whether they are on an OTTB they made from scratch or on a gazillion dollar import. This sport is in fact a great leveler, and that's one of the neat things about it. Any given day ......

Divine Comedy
Dec. 7, 2011, 12:28 PM
As for the jealously angle... I have to admit, when I see relative new comers to eventing buying up great horses and making bids for the top spots it DOES make me a bit uncomfortable. Not because I'm jealous, at least not for myself - but more for all those other "almost there" eventers who just need a bit of a break. I guess I feel like it is just so discouraging for them.


Well said. This is how I feel. Probably why Nina doesn't bother me at all, because she's taking her own, independent yet still difficult path.

misita
Dec. 7, 2011, 12:55 PM
Also, a statement like 'the United States' appalling breeding program' is, well, appalling.



Very frustrating to read that first thing in the morning. There are breeders who are working very hard to improve their breeding programs, to learn, and to put a talented (at all 3 disciplines), pretty, intelligent, sensitive, sound, and charismatic young prospect on the ground.

As for MLM, I wish her the best with her lovely new mare and will enjoy watching for them in the future.

LLDM
Dec. 7, 2011, 01:02 PM
Just remember for those who talk about individuals "buying their way to the top." They still have to jump all the jumps whether they are on an OTTB they made from scratch or on a gazillion dollar import. This sport is in fact a great leveler, and that's one of the neat things about it. Any given day ......

Well, maybe compared to other horse sports - but not compared to other individual sports. Given equally talented riders, the one with the better horse will win. This is unlike swimming or track, where it is based on individual talent alone.

Eventing is not like, say, show jumping at the WEG where the final four have to swap horses. Hickstead was the one who "won", not Eric.

The fact of the matter is that no matter how talented the rider, they can't make it to the top without a top horse. And no one really knows if a given horse is a 4* horse until they do a 4*. If a rider has to produce their own horses every time because buying a 4* horse is not in the picture, they may or may not be able to produce one out of the ones they have available to bring along. So many horses, even very talented ones, just top out at a certain level - ability wise, soundness wise, speed wise, mentally... the list goes on. Just because a rider doesn't have the money or connections to buy a top, proven ride doesn't mean they are less of a rider. Really, doesn't it take a better rider to get a less talented horse around? And I guess, to me, that should somehow count more than ambition and backing.

But yes, I do remember what country I live in! :lol:

SCFarm

NCRider
Dec. 7, 2011, 01:14 PM
One of the things that I suspect impacts how I react to Nina's attempt to qualify (aka "The Ligon's go to London") vs. MLM (who is aiming full speed at London 2012 and has been since the day she first sat and watched the WEG regardless of what she might say in print-I'd bet money that "Fair Hill 2011 or bust" was really about London 2012) is that Nina's journey will be judged by numbers.

Regardless of what type of horses she bought, how much money her family spent on them or on her training, at the end of the day, the final determination of whether she goes to London or not will be determined entirely by whether or not Nina got it done on the field.

On the other hand, MLM will be selected for the US team (or not) by a group of individuals based on a number of factors. Those factors will include many things competition related and many things that are less black and white and more suceptible to bias/politics, etc.

Maybe it's hypocritical to support one goal wholeheartedly and to hope the other one is made to wait for 2016, but they definitely trigger different responses in me.

atheventer85
Dec. 7, 2011, 01:56 PM
NCRider, well said. You hit the nail on the head. MLM hasn't had to jump through the hoops Nina has. No, I'm not a huge fan of either, but Nina has worked her ass off to get qualified. She has flown all over kingdom come to get qualified, and still is waiting to see if she will get a spot. I don't think it was too over ambitious for her to say she wanted to go to the Olympics- she had already evented for years.

MLM on the other hand, bashes US breeders, and has waltzed in and held out her palm as if expecting everyone to be in the palm of her hand. The article didn't do much for me. At all. She'd earn much more respect if she was more quiet about her ambitions.

PonyGal08
Dec. 7, 2011, 02:04 PM
NCRider, well said. You hit the nail on the head. MLM hasn't had to jump through the hoops Nina has. No, I'm not a huge fan of either, but Nina has worked her ass off to get qualified. She has flown all over kingdom come to get qualified, and still is waiting to see if she will get a spot. I don't think it was too over ambitious for her to say she wanted to go to the Olympics- she had already evented for years.

MLM on the other hand, bashes US breeders, and has waltzed in and held out her palm as if expecting everyone to be in the palm of her hand. The article didn't do much for me. At all. She'd earn much more respect if she was more quiet about her ambitions.

Whoa... Did I miss something???? Where did MLM bash US breeders?? She and her family are SJ breeders and she seems to be interested in breeding eventers someday. If it's just because she's bought horses in Europe, remember, there's A LOT of time between foaling and a ***.

VicariousRider
Dec. 7, 2011, 02:25 PM
MLM on the other hand, bashes US breeders, and has waltzed in and held out her palm as if expecting everyone to be in the palm of her hand. The article didn't do much for me. At all. She'd earn much more respect if she was more quiet about her ambitions.

Case in point: the EN article does not do MLM any favors. The US "breeder bashing" was EN commentary, not MLM's as the article is written.