Someone who doesn't wear a helmet!! ARGH!

[Bettie]

I know of a person, a friend of a friend, who is attempting to train a two year horse. My friend forwards pics of her friend, and she is never wearing a helmet when mounted.

My friend and I cringe--but don't know if we should open our big mouths, as concerned equistrians, and say put a lid on it!!!! I know my friend has already told her to do so once.

her two year old is sweet (a cldesdale/TB cross), but as we know, even sweet horses are capable of throwing you or bolting if they are spooked.

It drives us nuts!!! Do we shut up, or what? she doesn't listen--but it is so hard to see someone being so careless. What would you do??

my friend cares about this person and does not want to visit her in the ER.

[Bettie]

I know of a person, a friend of a friend, who is attempting to train a two year horse. My friend forwards pics of her friend, and she is never wearing a helmet when mounted.

My friend and I cringe--but don't know if we should open our big mouths, as concerned equistrians, and say put a lid on it!!!! I know my friend has already told her to do so once.

her two year old is sweet (a cldesdale/TB cross), but as we know, even sweet horses are capable of throwing you or bolting if they are spooked.

It drives us nuts!!! Do we shut up, or what? she doesn't listen--but it is so hard to see someone being so careless. What would you do??

my friend cares about this person and does not want to visit her in the ER.

[ChocoMare]

Since "she doesn't listen," don't waste your breath.

Besides, if this "trainer" is an adult she can do whatever she darn well pleases. Unfortunately, hard headed people usually need a good crock upside it following a greenie freak out to knock some sense into them.

[county]

I don't wear a helmet either and could personally care less if some think I should. If I went around telling everyone I know they should wear helmets, not smoke, lose weight, wear seat belts, etc. that do things that could harm them I wouldn't have time for anything else. Its called minding ones own business.

[Phaxxton]

Well, if she's your friend's REALLY good friend, she might tell her (in a NICE, non-judgmental manner) that she really wishes she would wear a helmet b/c she's worried about her safety. If the friend doesn't choose to listen, that's her problem. At that point, just drop it.

Personally, I wear a helmet every single time I sit on a horse - no matter what. Doesn't matter what horse, what I'm doing, where I am. I made a promise to someone who lost her daughter in a riding accident where a helmet would have saved her life, and I've never gone back on my word. If there's no helmet that fits me around, there's no way I'm getting on the horse. If anyone wants to ride one of my horses, they also have to wear a helmet that fits, or they're not riding. When I taught, I refused to teach anyone not wearing a helmet.

Outside of that, though, there's not much that can be done to force an adult to do something they don't want to do. If you keep nagging them, they'll just get really annoyed - as she is an adult... which means such utter stupidity is her choice. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[Briggsie]

Nah...say nothing...someone that hard headed obviously does not need a helmut. They already have one built in. If she wants to be stupid...fine, maybe falling off will give her a life long dream by putting her in a wheel chair, so she can drink meatloaf through a straw.

[Scootie]

If your friend has said something about it once, that is enough. The woman should know better, but chooses otherwise. If you keep nagging, she will tune it right out.

The only way to force an adult to wear a helmet is when they are on your property and you can set the rule.

I'd butt out if I were you.

And I'm another one who NEVER gets on a horse without a helmet.

[Bettie]

Yeah, you guys are right. She's an adult and can do what she wants. My friend has already shut up about it, and no longer comments on her lack of helmet. It still makes me cringe--I had a nasty fall on the trail last year, and if it weren't for my helmet, I would have had a serious head injury.

AND "county" --I am surprised that a horseperson with your many years experience would have such a flip attitude about riding safety. Wow.

[county]

I don't consider it non safe or flip. Its not uncommon at all for performance horse people to not wear helmets. Actually its very rare they do go to the NCHA and NRHA Worlds and you can count the helmet wearers on one hand.

[Briggsie]

county, that is what i was going to say, but I did not want to be bashey by saying i was stereotyping western riders. I noticed that barrel racers, etc, all they ever where is their cowboy hats.

[Just My Style]

Wasn't there a fantastic article written by one of the regular BBer's husband about what happens to the brain during a fall? Mr. Bumpkin? Let me see if I can find it. Anyway, if you print a copy of it and give it to the friend and she still doesn't wear a helmet, then you have done all you can.

[chaotic mind]

Someone once asked me why (this was before the rule change) Juniors were required to wear helmets with chin straps and Adults weren't. My response was this. Part of society's responsibility is to protect children from making errors that could result in serious harm to themselves. Once they have reached adulthood if they still don't have the reasoning power to provide for there own safety it is to society's advantage to let them remove themselves from the gene pool. (Darwin Style)

[mht]

Does this person ride around young students? If so, she should be setting a better example for them. Having seen first hand the kind of damage that can be done to a helmet when you take a direct fall on your head, off of the quietest horse in the world, I will never go without a helmet. And I'm old enough to be one of those riders who would never wear one in their younger days!

[inca]

Say something very nicely once and then let it go. I always wear a helmet with my young horses but usually do not with my older, more reliable horses. You couldn't pay me enough to get on a young horse without a helmet. I don't care how quiet that young horse is. However, I certainly would get highly annoyed if someone was constantly telling me to wear a helmet. It's really no one's business except mine. I DO follow the rules and wear a helmet at places that require it. But, other than that, it is my choice.

[Just My Style]

Please print this off for your friend-

Mr Bumpkin's Helmet Theory

What Happens When You Fall Without a Helmet:

If you were to take a fall from your horse and land on your head without a helmet, your head which would contain a great deal of kinetic (in motion) energy would strike the hard ground and a good deal of that energy would then transfer back to your head in a great shock to your brain. Hard ground is a poor energy shock absorber, but rather more of a shock reflector.

This would be like hitting a telephone pole with a baseball bat. The pole can't absorb the kinetic energy of the moving bat, so the pole reflects the energy back into the bat and back up your arms. This is what you don't want to happen when trying to prevent a head injury. You want the energy to leave your head and move into the ground at a rate that the ground can absorb it at.

Neither your head or the ground compress very well and therefore the impact energy is transferred from your head to the ground over a very small amount of physical displacement, or movement. This rapid deceleration of your skull hitting the ground means that your brain which is floating in a fluid can slam into the inside of your skull and become bruised, resulting in a concussion.

How a Helmet Works:

Helmets are made up of a hard outer shell and a firm, but compressible inner liner normally made from polystyrene. The outer shell is designed to stay in shape in a fall and not deform upon impact. This causes the energy of the helmet contacting the ground not to be focused on a small local area of the helmet, but to be spread out over the entire surface of the helmet where it contacts the ground.

Between your head and the hard outer shell is a polystyrene foam layer. This layer is designed to compress at a predetermined rate when the helmet strikes the ground. This compression rate is designed to decelerate (slow) your head at a rate that doesn't cause your brain to strike the inside of your skull. This is similar to an airbag in your car. It inflates just before you hit it and then deinflates as your body presses into it, thereby slowing your forward motion so you don't slam into the steering wheel. Additionally, the force of your head upon the foam compresses the foam and this converts the kinetic energy of your head into mechanical energy (compressing foam) and then into heat which is quickly dissipated.

Accidents:

Once a helmet has been used in an accident and the inner liner of foam has become compressed in even a small amount it must be replaced or rebuilt with a new foam liner, or next time there will be less non-compressed foam to absorb the energy and the shock to your head will be greater.

Aging:

The materials that make up a helmet over time can become compromised due to daily use, ozone and other environmental forces causing them to become weakened. Old helmets should be replaced, or they could fail when called upon.



If this doesn't help, nothing will. I agree, she should be setting a better example for her students and barnmates.

[shakeytails]

Amen, county!!!

I propose a new topic "People who have a hissy fit because I don't wear a helmet!! ARGH!"

[Just My Style]

I don't think it is as much of a hissy fit as it is a person being concerned about a friend. If they tell their friend that they care about them and that they are concerned about their well being and the friend still chooses to go helmetless, fine. It is their choice, but I don't think there is any harm in a friend looking out for your best interest.

[katie16]

First let me say that at the barn where I ride we all are required to wear helmets at all times when mounted. That is a rule of the establishment. However, before being at my current barn, I was at a place that didn't have a rule one way or the other. I still always wear a helmet - others didn't.

Bottom line is: 1) Barn has right to set or not set such a rule. 2)If no rule, then each individual can choose. They would only be harming themselves not to wear one.

For me it's kind of like seatbelts. If you want to take the chance and gamble with your well being that should be your choice. For me it's an easy decision. But everyone is entititled to their own opinion.

[Bettie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Just My Style:
I don't think it is as much of a hissy fit as it is a person being concerned about a friend. If they tell their friend that they care about them and that they are concerned about their well being and the friend still chooses to go helmetless, fine. It is their choice, but I don't think there is any harm in a friend looking out for your best interest. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

thank you. Concern is not a "hissy fit."

Personally, I choose to cover my melon. I only get one head, one brain. Need to invest in protecting it.


county, we can agree to disagree. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[MSP]

I am apparently one of the few people who are not in love with wearing helmets. As a child and into my teens I rode every day and I was probably 14/16 before I bought my first helmet. Maybe because of that I am just not real comfortable wearing them. I would much rather ride without one, especially if I were trail riding. I learned to jump riding bareback with out a helmet and I have had plenty of wipeouts while not wearing a helmet. When I had saved up enough money I purchased an English saddle and I have to admit the helmet was the last thing I bought. Perhaps I was lucky, maybe I just didn’t fall off that much or maybe I learned to fall without hitting my head. When I started taking lesson the helmet was required and I began wearing them at that point. But even to this day the helmet is not second nature, I find them uncomfortable and cumbersome but I do wear them.

So, perhaps this friend is not accustomed to wearing them either. If she owns one then certainly I would not pester her about wearing one, she has apparently decided not to.

FYI – my newest helmet is promoted by a successful barrel racer who wears hers at every completion so perhaps the western community is changing their look; more helmets in the future.

[WhoaHorsieWhoa]

When I school dressage at home I do not wear a helmet. The only time I wear a helmet is when I jumping or competing. That's the only time! I have had people tell to wear one but I tell them to mind there own biz. I am an adult and don't need to be told what to do. I know what i'm doing. There is alot in this world that you can do that will injury you, but alot of people don't use caution. Like seat belts, Fura-Zone if humans touch it with there bare hands can get cancer. Just a few good examples. Word of advice...don't tell people what to do!

[ponymom64]

My SIL is currently in hospital in a coma, unable to breathe on her own because she was in a motorcycle accident without a helmet. There is no helmet law in Florida and she is an adult, able to make decisions on her own. Her family, kids and friends are in great pain because she felt it was more fun to feel the breeze blowing thru her hair than to wear a helmet. Yes, it is your choice to protect your head or not, but when you make that decision, you should think about how your family would feel if you ended up with a brain injury

[Giddy-up]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chaotic mind:
Part of society's responsibility is to protect children from making errors that could result in serious harm to themselves. Once they have reached adulthood if they still don't have the reasoning power to provide for there own safety it is to society's advantage to let them remove themselves from the gene pool. (Darwin Style) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
That's a good one!!!

[GottaRide]

I think it's a personal decision and that if someone not wearing a helmet has a bad fall off a horse and survives, they'll be likely to wear one henceforth. Then again, they may never fall off and will never have experienced ill effects from not wearing one.

I trail rode a few times with a woman at a barn I used to board at. She wore no helmet. The first time we went out I asked, "Where's your helmet?". "Oh, I never wear one." I figure, it's a personal decision so I didn't make an issue out of it. Enter the man on the ATV that insisted on roaring up behind us on a trail that is supposed to be off limits to motorized vehicles. The woman's Arab spooks, is off the to races, she falls off, gets kicked in the front and back of her skull as she's falling, collapses on the trail unconscious. Almost died. Now has lost her sense of smell, permanently as a result of the accident.

Now she wears a helmet. It's a personal decision, but I do inwardly wince every time I see someone without one, having experienced first hand that "manure happens" and it ain't pretty.

[Hidden]

Can't help it .. I think everyone should wear a helmet. But as many say - it is a personal choice. I'm with Darwin on this, helmet laws for motercycles, and seatbelt laws. Those who are too thick to get it should get theirs and leave the rest of us alone. If I care about someone I'm going to say something.. if I don't I won't - they are too good to have an "accident" since "accidents" are always a predictable event.

[fergie]

I can't believe that people actually admit they don't wear a helmet and seem proud of it?!! To me, that is the ultimate in stupidity and ignorance... If you wrote that, then you do need to fall of and hit your head! The helmet is the only thing that saved my life last year. I spent about a month in the hospital with a head injury and some of that time was in a coma. My brain still swims around if I hit my head! At the very least, you can still ride another day! Unbelievable...

[county]

I can't beleive anyone is stupid and ignorant enough to want people to fall and hit their head. Tell me Fergie do you tell smokers you hope they die of lung cancer? How about over weight people, do you tell them you hope they get high blood pressure and have a heart attack?

[MSP]

Do you all wear helmets while grooming your horses?

I know a woman that got kicked in the head grooming her horse and died instantly. Its funny but I don’t remember so many horror stories about riding back in the 70’s when hardly anyone wore helmets and no one wore seat belts.

My point is that horses are dangerous animals to be around and you must assume a certain level of risk. Some people weren’t born with a helmet on, all this safety gear that you all are so comfortable with hasn’t been around forever. When I was a kid we rode horses with out helmets, bikes without helmets and drove in cars with out seat belts and baby car seats.

I don’t think it is as cut and dry as you Darwin people think. Don’t be so judgmental! I agree that a helmet is a really good idea but they take some getting used to when you are not used to them. And, when your telling stories of the one person that got hurt because they didn’t have a helmet don’t forget to count all the accidents that happened where they didn’t get hurt. I see more accidents from people riding beyond there skill level than anything else.

I also have heard of people that had helmets on that still were injured so it would be advisable to ride with caution even with a helmet you are not invincible. And, personally my injuries have been to my back rather than my head. Maybe we should all wear body armour!

[Bettie]

good point MSP. I have a friend who works in the racing industry who in fact does wear a helmet when grooming and tacking the excitable Thoroughbreds...
Horses are large, and can be quite dangerous. Body protectors, helmets, etc. help lessen the risk of permanent injury.

Using caution even when grooming and tacking is essential. Don't sit/squat to apply polos and boots (or picking hooves)for example.

to me it is about respecting a beast that has ability to crush me. There is no need to go overboard (like wearing a suit of armor when grooming)just use common sense and appropriate protection...

jeez, I could easily be talking about sex too! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Phaxxton]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by shakeytails:
Amen, county!!!

I propose a new topic "People who have a hissy fit because I don't wear a helmet!! ARGH!" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yeah, HOW DARE SHE care about a friend? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Give me a break - she's not throwing a hissy fit. She's concerned about the person's safety. If you read what the OP wrote, her friend has already shut up about it. Doesn't mean she doesn't care about her friend.

[fergie]

county,
Actually, it drives me nuts when I see people smoking and eating themselves into oblivion, but I realize that habits are hard to break and stupidity... well that can't be helped either. These are probably the same people who don't have health insurance that I end up paying for... Not wearing a helmet is just stupid, stupid, stupid. And yes, I actually did wear me helmet while grooming when my injury was just "fresh", if you really want to know. And no, I'm not wimpy, just smarter.

[mp]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MSP:
Do you all wear helmets while grooming your horses? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

When I'm picking feet or working with the legs, usually. Otherwise, no.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I don’t remember so many horror stories about riding back in the 70’s when hardly anyone wore helmets and no one wore seat belts. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Speak for yourself, dear. My dad put seatbelts in our 1957 stationwagon and we wore them, by god. And then delayed buying a new car until 1965 when they became standard equipment. Why? Because he was a carrier pilot in WWII and saw firsthand how beneficial restraints can be when a fast-moving vehicle stops suddenly.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">All this safety gear that you all are so comfortable with hasn’t been around forever. When I was a kid we rode horses with out helmets, bikes without helmets and drove in cars with out seat belts and baby car seats. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You forgot to mention how many people smoked, and how nothing was ever said about secondhand smoke. But we all know better now, don't we? Well, at least some of us do.

Whether you or any adult wants to wear a helmet when you ride a horse is your business. I don't wish you ill, but don't try to justify your decision with reflections on the good old days and an argument that equates to "we're all going to die anyway." You'll sound a lot smarter if you just say "you take your level of risk and I'll take mine."

And, just for the record, I rode for years without a helmet and took two nasty spills during that time. Broken arm and a broken back, but no head injuries.

I began wearing a helmet, not because of those falls, but because it just seemed so stupid not to. Just an unnecessary risk. About two years later, I had a minor spill -- I nearly landed on my feet, did a little somersault ... and hit my head hard on the arena wall. Hard enough for my dentist to ask me two months later if I'd been in a car accident because my teeth were loose.

You draw your own conclusions.

[county]

Like I said Fergie we all have our idea of stupid. Your comments put you in the group I consider so.

[jilltx]

She's an adult, no?? You've already mentioned it to her, so leave it alone. It's her choice.

[jacksmom]

the problem with folks that don't wear helmets, seatbelts, or chose to smoke, is that it does impact me - it impacts everyone, with higher insurance premiums.

in this life there are plenty of risks that will come our way that we won't be given a choice on. how you chose to handle those things will define the person that you are.

when someone choses to not wear a helmet, seatbelt, or smoke, they are making a VERY selfish choice. you can call it a 'personal decision' or an issue of 'personal freedom', but i'm also free to think anyone who rides without a helmet is an idiot.

[mzpeepers]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fergie:
county,
Actually, it drives me nuts when I see people smoking and eating themselves into oblivion, but I realize that habits are hard to break and stupidity... well that can't be helped either. These are probably the same people who don't have health insurance that I end up paying for... Not wearing a helmet is just stupid, stupid, stupid. And yes, I actually did wear me helmet while grooming when my injury was just "fresh", if you really want to know. And no, I'm not wimpy, just smarter. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well....we all have different ideas about what "smarter" is don't we?
As well as "polite", "not judgemental", "open minded" and so on....
BTW...the health insurance comment was priceless....do you have to study to obtain that level of bigotry and self rightneousness?

[Trakehner]

Riding Helmets...I hate the dirty things...but I wear one since my wife had her riding accident and I don't have the luxury of not wearing one now (and nope, she wasn't wearing a helmet..it was always a fight to get her to wear one).

I grew up not wearing them except for very light cloth/shellac ones for shows...no straps on em' either. Occasionally a Caliente was worn, but they were miserable things if you didn't have a head shaped like a pumpkin.

We don't need Nanny's at the barn...If it's an adult riding, shut up about helmets. Free will still reigns. It's their choice. Smokers make a terrible example to kids, over-eating and anorexic riders do too, so do druggies and people cheating on their spouses...would you walk up to them and make a quip about being a bad example? No, you wouldn't.

If you like helmets, wear a helmet. If you like a "crash and burn" vest when you jump...good on ya, wear one...but don't nag those who don't wear em'.

[horseyfolks]

Question for these brave, "older experienced" riders who refuse helmets....

If you were thrown and someone had the ability to freeze the action 2 seconds before impact and ask you if you wanted a helmet, what would you say? I'll bet you would say no thanks, I'll take the broken skull.... Right, sure you would!

Can we all say hypocrite?

Don

[county]

so all of you who are pissed because not everyone wears a helmet are perfcet right? Not overweight, don't smoke, do everything perfect?

[HorseProtectionLeague]

Ok- let's all make a deal: Non-helmet wearers stop making fun of helmet wearers (at Western barns I get called 'Adam Ant' for my blue and red helmet cover) and making them feel uncomfortable protecting their own saftey. Helmet wearers, let's not bear ill wishes toward non-helmet wearers, and let's remember that in many disciplines there is pressure NOT to wear a helmet. Not everyone is good at ignoring their own public image, even when it is in their own best interests.

And remember, folks: If you think your hairstyle is more important than your brain, it probably is. --Old radio commercial promoting bike helmets.

Edited to change 'safetery' to safety- sheesh, typing too fast. What's a safetery?

[county]

Whats hair got to do with it? I have hardly any, LOL

[fergie]

mzpeepers,
I enjoyed your wit, although my thinking on the subject is verbatim to jacksmom's comments.

county,
Were you the one licking the window in the back of the short yellow bus? Come on, don't disappoint me. Say something else that's stupid...

[RSB]

You know, I honestly think its like anything else in life, people are going to do what they want and others need to accept that for what it is. IMO, if you want to wear one, please do. If not, that is your choice and decision. I think everyone has to find a certain comfort level with these things, just like they have to find a comfort level with how they feel about wearing a seatbelt, smoking, drinking, etc.

Do I wear one every time I ride? Absolutely. Am I going to condemn anyone who doesn't? No way - its not my place to judge. I'm sure there are plently of things that I have done in my lifetime that others did not/would not approve of.

[jacksmom]

perfect? hardly http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif i also don't go around 'pissed' at anyone. life is just too short for that.

but i do understand that my choices have ramifications that go beyond me and i try to make informed decisions.

[Robyn]

As a confirmed helmet wearer I find it hysterical that the new dressage barn that a friend is at requires the wearing of gloves in the indoor arena, but helmets are not mentioned and rarely worn. Yes, a blister could be fatal!

[Bettie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robyn:
As a confirmed helmet wearer I find it hysterical that the new dressage barn that a friend is at requires the wearing of gloves in the indoor arena, but helmets are not mentioned and rarely worn. Yes, a blister could be fatal! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

what?? Geeeez....that takes the cake. Crazy!

[mp]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by county:
so all of you who are pissed because not everyone wears a helmet are perfcet right? Not overweight, don't smoke, do everything perfect? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not overweight and don't smoke. Not pissed. And far from perfect, as are my horses. Hence, the helmet.

And, just for the record, I DO hate what the helmet does to my hair. But it does give me an excuse to buy really cool cowboy hats.

[DMK]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fergie:
county,
Actually, it drives me nuts when I see people smoking and eating themselves into oblivion, but I realize that habits are hard to break and stupidity... well that can't be helped either. These are probably the same people who don't have health insurance that I end up paying for... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Honestly, if you are going to use this example, it least use it correctly.

We end up paying for those people if they are insured too. Maybe even more so, because it costs a lot to keep a chronic condition from developing into an acute one. If they are on lipitor and uninsured, that ain't your nickel.

I love these threads. Because the ONE thing you can count on is that for every person that comes on and posts some variation of Not Wearing a Helmet = Stupidity, that's probably one more non helmet wearing fence sitter that jumps back to the helmetless side of the fence.

Calling people stupid is a sure fire way to not get them to even pay an ounce of attention to any valid points you might have. In fact, I am beginning to think that the name callers (on both sides) are actually spies for the other side. It makes more sense that way. As a strategy for the argument they profess to be supporting, well, it is kind of... what's the word I'm looking for? Not smart? OK, that's two words, but you get my drift. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[mp]

For the record, I've never called anyone anything for not wearing a helmet. I'd be out of breath at my barn -- out of 100+ horses and riders, there are less than 10 helmet wearers. I never bring it up to non-wearers and they don't mention it to me. It's just not an issue.

What I do object to is trying to justify the decision not to wear one by pointing out all the risky behavior that was acceptable in the past. Wear one or don't. Your business. But spare me the false logic.

[hijumpin1]

Here we go again. Another thread on helmets. Help!!! Make it stop!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[DMK]

mp, if you never called someone stupid for not wearing a helmet, you have nothing to apologize for. My post was certainly crystal clear in that regard.

Actually, you have nothing to apologize for if you did call someone stupid. Or at least not to me. I could care less.

But if you (the generic "you") did call someone stupid, and you do care that there are people out there riding without helmets, and you do want to change things, you just might want to rethink your strategy. Pissing into the wind is uncomfortable. Or so one hears.

[fergie]

Stupid is as stupid does.

[MSP]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mp:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MSP:
Do you all wear helmets while grooming your horses? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

When I'm picking feet or working with the legs, usually. Otherwise, no.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I don’t remember so many horror stories about riding back in the 70’s when hardly anyone wore helmets and no one wore seat belts. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Speak for yourself, dear. My dad put seatbelts in our 1957 stationwagon and we wore them, by god. And then delayed buying a new car until 1965 when they became standard equipment. Why? Because he was a carrier pilot in WWII and saw firsthand how beneficial restraints can be when a fast-moving vehicle stops suddenly.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">All this safety gear that you all are so comfortable with hasn’t been around forever. When I was a kid we rode horses with out helmets, bikes without helmets and drove in cars with out seat belts and baby car seats. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You forgot to mention how many people smoked, and how nothing was ever said about secondhand smoke. But we all know better now, don't we? Well, at least some of us do.

Whether you or any adult wants to wear a helmet when you ride a horse is your business. I don't wish you ill, but don't try to justify your decision with reflections on the good old days and an argument that equates to "we're all going to die anyway." You'll sound a lot smarter if you just say "you take your level of risk and I'll take mine."

And, just for the record, I rode for years without a helmet and took two nasty spills during that time. Broken arm and a broken back, but no head injuries.

I began wearing a helmet, not because of those falls, but because it just seemed so stupid not to. Just an unnecessary risk. About two years later, I had a minor spill -- I nearly landed on my feet, did a little somersault ... and hit my head hard on the arena wall. Hard enough for my dentist to ask me two months later if I'd been in a car accident because my teeth were loose.

You draw your own conclusions. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow, talk about getting miss quoted!!!!!!!


I do wear a helmet I just don't like the way some of you want to cram helmet wearing down everyone’s throat. Why don't you re-read what I wrote. I am not trying to justify my decisions to wear a helmet??????

Statistically there are a lot of injuries while un-mounted so my point was that all these helmet mongers probably don't wear helmets while handling their horses so if they really want to stand by their word they should wear a helmet before entering the barn!

Why would I bring smoking into this there are plenty of people that still smoke even knowing the risks?

As you I didn't ride with a helmet but started to as I became an adult. Seems we experienced the same things only you became a bit self righteous. You are the one drawing to your own conclusions.

[mp]

MPS ... Sorry, I misunderstood you. I'm glad you wear a helmet. Really.

But I didn't misquote you. You said no one wore seatbelts in the 70s. And I can tell you they did. And the comment about smoking was simply to point out that what people did 30+ years ago is no justification for not knowing better now.

It's all about the risk one is willing to assume. You and I are not willing to assume as much as others, so we wear helmets. Good for us. Others don't. Not so good for them. And that's all I'll say for politeness (and DMK's) sake). http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Invested1]

One of my favorite expressions is that people are "victims of our own decisions." If you ride without a helmet and take a nasty fall and wind up really hurt, well, the decision to not wear a helmet was yours and yours alone, and you must accept the consequences. Same with smokers developing lung cancer, or people getting ejected from cars because they didn't wear their seatbelts.
It's just hard to for me to feel sorry for someone when they determined a risk to be acceptable and then got hurt....

[bumknees]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by horseyfolks:
Question for these brave, "older experienced" riders who refuse helmets....

If you were thrown and someone had the ability to freeze the action 2 seconds before impact and ask you if you wanted a helmet, what would you say? I'll bet you would say no thanks, I'll take the broken skull.... Right, sure you would!

Can we all say hypocrite?

Don </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup if given a choice at those last 2 seconds I would still pass on a helmet. just as I aould pass on a seat belt ( read some of the stats and youd be suprised what they are not telling you). but then again I was taught how to fall properly and in my case it wouldnt matter one way or another if I wore a helmet, hunt cap, or baseball cap I would still end up dead if I landed on my head.

[Bettie]

Yup if given a choice at those last 2 seconds I would still pass on a helmet. just as I aould pass on a seat belt ( read some of the stats and youd be suprised what they are not telling you). but then again I was taught how to fall properly and in my case it wouldnt matter one way or another if I wore a helmet, hunt cap, or baseball cap I would still end up dead if I landed on my head.[/QUOTE]


A helmet saved my noggin on the trail.I know of riders who would be dead or brain damaged without one.

do you really think you can compare a baseball cap with a helmet? I can't believe what I am reading... good luck to you. I sincerely hope you don't get hurt.

[Sandy M]

Boy, am I repeating myself, but I STILL would like to see a study comparing the head injuries/deaths among western riders to those in the english disciplines. So few western riders wear helmets (and kudos to the NFR barrel racer who now wears one - because she particularly wanted to be a good example for her children), and yet I can't say that I've seen or heard of MORE of them suffering serious head injuries. Now, granted, they aren't jumping - but most advocates of "every time/every ride" for helmets mean it for everyone - whether on a dead broke schoolmaster or a green colt. And certainly cutting, barrel racing and reining could be considered as "perilous" as jumping -they are working at speed, even if they don't get as far off the ground!

(Personally - I wear one ALMOST all the time. Always on the trail, always when jumping, always when on a strange horse, always when in a new place, always when it's a cold, windy day- even though my horse is "broke to death," but I will sometimes go without when schooling at home, on the flat.)

[greysandbays]

Why do helmet nazis think everybody is as scairt of horses as they are???

I use the following example to illustrate a point:

Say there is a million dollar prize for walking across a 4" wide plank, 20' long, suspended 100' above the earth with no safety net and no safety harness.

Contestant #1 is a overweight, non-athletic middle-age woman who is afraid of heights. She backs out because it's way too dangerous and she's sure she's gonna die if she tries it.

Contestant #2 is a circus performer who has worked on the highwire since she was a child. She laughs, hops out on the plank, does a few flips and handstands on the way to the far side and thinks "Dang, this is the easiest money I ever made".

The plank is the same for both. The "splat" at the bottom will be the same for either, should they fall. But, based on their life experience, the prospect of walking across that plank scares one person shitless, and is child's play to the other.

[HorseProtectionLeague]

'Scairt' of horses? Moi? Au contraire, mon ami, I have been dubbed "Sponge Bob Glue Pants" at one barn because I get on- and stay on- all the colts everyone else gives up on! However, I do wear my helmet every time I ride a young colt, jump, school my own horses, ride a rescue horse... the list goes on. The only time I skip the 'wuss hat' as the cowboy types call it is when I am trail guiding, and that is because the boss says I'm not supposed to look like an English snob when dude punching...

If there is any 'scairt' of horses in me, I dare ya to find it. However, I have no idea what your tightrope example is supposed to mean to me. If someone offered me $1,000,000 to ride a green colt with no helmet through a herd of buffalo, I'd do it- but that doesn't mean I don't wear a helmet or recommend that other people do. I don't get on anyone's case for NOT wearing a helmet, but I do recommend it to anyone who asks my opinion, and I do make sure the little girls schooling ponies at the rescue are always wearing helmets- it is a liability issue as well as the fact that I like the little girls and would hate to see the insides of their skulls.

[Bacchus]

I agree that it's an adult's choice to wear a helmet or not. However, I will not ride with anyone who's not wearing a helmet. That's my rulehttp://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I don't want the responsibility nor the guilt should something happen.

"If you think your hairstyle is more important than your brain, you're probably right."

[Amchara]

When I was in 4H and visiting my friend who kept her horse at her barn, I witnessed her riding her horse with out a helmet, I asked why. "Because I am an adult, at my own facility, on my own horse". I would consider her fairly arogant, and she was also late 20's early 30's.

The instructor I have now always wears a helmet, and you have to wear a helmet to ride on her property. She has evented intermediate, judges up to advanced, and is also in her early 60's (age comparison for early mentioned instructor). I am sure she has seen a fair amount of accidents, probably deaths, and even heard of many deaths. She also has a barn full of young girls wanting to be just a good of rider as she is.

[mp]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by greysandbays:
Why do helmet nazis think everybody is as scairt of horses as they are??? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Damn! I've been outed. I'm an overweight, non-athletic middle-age woman who is just plain scairt of my horses.

I'll allow you the plank illustration ... as long as that board weighs at least 800 lbs, has four legs and a mind of its own.

[Robyn]

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gifWell said!

[Sannois]

I tell you I dont give a rats behind what anyone does other than myself and students, well Student, I know its not a matter of being scared, I grew up riding in Jeans chaps and tennies, except at a show or a lesson, and jumping too. I know that the easiest thing to do is land on your head and thats all she wrote, I do jump with one and go on trails with one, and ride young strange horses in one, All it takes is for me to be riding along, my old guy spooks sideways while I am just looking at the scenery and poof hit head on rock, and be drooling in a home somewhere as quick as that, and thats if I dont die first! PEOPLE THAT DONT WEAR THERE HELMETS DONT NEED LECTURES FROM THOSE WHO DO!!! ITS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS Sorry for yelling but this is the most annoying thing, stay out of others lives, IF they dont want to thats their fault and problem Not yours! And dont start with the But its for your own good crap! Or the insurance crap! I pay damn well for my insurance. I am not saying that I do not know it is smart to wear one, I only think it is none of folks business if we dont. OK Flame away!~ http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[TBsRgr8]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Trakehner:
We don't need Nanny's at the barn...If it's an adult riding, shut up about helmets. Free will still reigns. It's their choice. Smokers make a terrible example to kids, over-eating and anorexic riders do too, so do druggies and people cheating on their spouses...would you walk up to them and make a quip about being a bad example? No, you wouldn't. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, a family at one barn I boarded at did talk. They took 1 horse out of full training (young prospect that was also being competed by the BO/trainer), another full care board horse, and teenager out of riding lessons. They were very upfront that they did not want the teenager being exposed to the affair of the barn owner/ trainer with a client. They spoke even more loudly by taking their business elsewhere. And these were clients who had paid their board for 6 months in advance and helped with all kinds of odds and ends around the barn. Not exactly what a new facility can afford to lose and expect to stay afloat.

[MistyBlue]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Why do helmet nazis think everybody is as scairt of horses as they are???

I use the following example to illustrate a point:

Say there is a million dollar prize for walking across a 4" wide plank, 20' long, suspended 100' above the earth with no safety net and no safety harness.

Contestant #1 is a overweight, non-athletic middle-age woman who is afraid of heights. She backs out because it's way too dangerous and she's sure she's gonna die if she tries it.

Contestant #2 is a circus performer who has worked on the highwire since she was a child. She laughs, hops out on the plank, does a few flips and handstands on the way to the far side and thinks "Dang, this is the easiest money I ever made".

The plank is the same for both. The "splat" at the bottom will be the same for either, should they fall. But, based on their life experience, the prospect of walking across that plank scares one person shitless, and is child's play to the other. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL...okay, how about if the woman trying it is indeed middle aged (just starting middle age thankyouverymuch), rides continuously, rides everything, has 11% body fat, works out religiously for her sport and can bench her body weight in reps? I'm not afraid of horses at all...even with some of the basket cases I ride...yet I also have a family and friends and a business to run. Not easy to take care of any of those things if I'm on level with a rutabega hooked up to tubes.

[mzpeepers]

Oh crap! I hate this dicussions.

Some people, like me, not only do not wear a helmet, but enjoy a cocktail and, sin of all sins, a cigarette too. So sue me.
If you don't like it's ok, but I would appreciate you (and by "you" I address the whole helmet nazi mob) not lecturing me.

Someone said "I won't ride with anyone not wearing a helmet". Great! Cuz I tell you what, with that sanctimonious attitude I don't think I'd ride with you anyway.

And there I was thinking I was in the land of the free.... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif

[bornfreenowexpensive]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Why do helmet nazis think everybody is as scairt of horses as they are???

I use the following example to illustrate a point:

Say there is a million dollar prize for walking across a 4" wide plank, 20' long, suspended 100' above the earth with no safety net and no safety harness.

Contestant #1 is a overweight, non-athletic middle-age woman who is afraid of heights. She backs out because it's way too dangerous and she's sure she's gonna die if she tries it.

Contestant #2 is a circus performer who has worked on the highwire since she was a child. She laughs, hops out on the plank, does a few flips and handstands on the way to the far side and thinks "Dang, this is the easiest money I ever made".

The plank is the same for both. The "splat" at the bottom will be the same for either, should they fall. But, based on their life experience, the prospect of walking across that plank scares one person shitless, and is child's play to the other. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't consider myself a helmet nazis--but I ride with a helmet. And MOST people do not consider me scared (actually the opposite) or as you described above. I've been riding since I was 6--worked for and ridden with some of the best in world. I compete in eventing but I've also chased cows and a part of me would love to get on a bull given the chance. I don't care what you do but don't make generalizations about others. I've ridden and ride HOT young TBs. Now I don't ride the fruit loops as often as I use too (I can afford better now) but my friend who rides broncs/bulls wants desperately to get on my three year old--not a chance since I'm trying to undo that buck! When you are riding athletic young horses--they can do unpredictable things and can be quite adapt at bucking, rearing and spining. Do what you want with your own head but don't put down someone who wants to take an ounce of protection. And no, just because you wear a helmet doesn't guarantee that you will not get hurt. I've seen people die with one on but it has prevented me from a hospital stay more than once.

As to the original post--yes I think your friend is taking an unnecessary risk getting on a two year old without a helmet. But let her make up her own mind--if you've said something once, it doesn't need to be said again. Just bite your lip and let it go--or mention it to her mother and let her badger her.

[mmaurer]

to the OP, not your business if the trainer rides with a helmet or not. I had a VERY talented young(over 18 ..just) rider break a 2 yrold for me this year and put a couple of monthes on another. She never rode with a helmet, heck most of the time she never had shoes or a saddle. Those horses are VERY well broke, she did a great job. You can't make someone of legal age put a helmet on.

[Sabina]

I'm not scared of horses. I took physics. I took biology.

In physics we learned what happens to mass traveling at a high velocity. In biology we learned about natural selection.
(In physical therapy, I learned how to use my arm again...and that was my arm. But I digress.)

Since I'm a biological organism, I'm mortal.
Since I am about to turn 50, going deaf, legally blind without glasses, and have an auto immune disease, frankly, my reflexes and balance are not what they were in my twenties. It would be foolish of me to not acknowlege this.

Since both my fricking stump broke horses are 16H tall, I can swear to you I also end up ducking more often than people on normal sized ones. Just vaulting off can be an impressive impact if you are on the downhill side on landing.

I also find it nearly impossible to not wince when I see someone bareheaded, especially on a green horse, as one of mine is right now, but to proclaim "Hey y'all look really brilliant without that helmet!" is beyond my capabilities.

Just consider this my spiritual, socialistic side at war with the Intelligent Designers again.

[Huntertwo]

If she is an adult, all you can do is express your concern in a non-confrontational way. The rest is up to her.

Or have her go on the Equichat site and see the poor woman who was paralyzed from the chest down after falling off her horse without a helmet.

It is not only yourself that you are hurting, but think of the burden on YOUR FAMILY if you were to get seriously hurt. I could never put my husband, mother etc. through that. Its selfish.

I wear mine no matter what. And I ride Western. Just my opinion.

[Esmee]

i do wear a helmet everytime i ride...probably will continue to do so, though i am jealous of people that don't wear them. Looks so much nicer, but whatever. i really don't care if people wear them or not. my dad won't wear a seatbelt. i mention it to him everytime we drive since i was 12 i'm 29 now. he looked at the risks and made his choice. he eats fried food, doesn't exercise, drinks too much, has high blood pressure and heart disease runs in the family. what can you do? eh...figure he's doing what the hell he wants, so that's the way it is. can't strap him to a chair and force skinless chicken breasts and salad down his throat.

[Cella]

I don't wear a helmet. I know better, but I am from one of those disaplines that no one wears a helmet for.
Plus, it might or might not save your life.
Most likely the people you are speaking of that are in nursing homes not able to breath or feed themselves, fractured part of their cervical spine, not the skull. A helmet won't do crap for that.

How many of you wear or have your partner wear a condom? Now that's dangerous business there.

[Esmee]

one would probably be better served wearing a helmet in a car come to think of it...

[fergie]

I guess I just don't understand why people don't want to minimize the risks that they can easily minimize??? There are so many that we have no control over. I'd be dead now if I had had just had a cowboy hat on last October. And yes, lung cancer and heart disease and other preventable diseases do drive health care costs up, for everyone. And yes, it does piss me off that my insurance rates reflect costs of subsidizing the morbidly fat smoker who drives without a seatbelt and rides without a helmet. Theses choices actually affect a lot of people.

[Cella]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fergie:
I guess I just don't understand why people don't want to minimize the risks that they can easily minimize??? There are so many that we have no control over. I'd be dead now if I had had just had a cowboy hat on last October. And yes, lung cancer and heart disease and other preventable diseases do drive health care costs up, for everyone. And yes, it does piss me off that my insurance rates reflect costs of subsidizing the morbidly fat smoker who drives without a seatbelt and rides without a helmet. Theses choices actually affect a lot of people. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just drop your insurance and you won't have to concern yourself with what the others do or don't do.

[Just My Style]

I am still trying to figure out what "scairt" is.

[Phaxxton]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jacksmom:
the problem with folks that don't wear helmets, seatbelts, or chose to smoke, is that it does impact me - it impacts everyone, with higher insurance premiums.

in this life there are plenty of risks that will come our way that we won't be given a choice on. how you chose to handle those things will define the person that you are.

when someone choses to not wear a helmet, seatbelt, or smoke, they are making a VERY selfish choice. you can call it a 'personal decision' or an issue of 'personal freedom', but i'm also free to think anyone who rides without a helmet is an idiot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What's more, death isn't necessarily the alternative. A fall without a helmet could also produce serious brain trauma that might leave you totally dependent on your loved ones...

I should add, I don't tell other people what to do about a helmet AT ALL unless they're riding on my property or my horses (or in a lesson with me). I don't purport at all to be perfect, but I personally think it's foolish to ride without a helmet. And don't think for a damn second I'm afraid of my horses. Respect for the sport and the dangers therein, yet. Fear of my horses? Goodness no.

[Lamb]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Phaxxton:

What's more, death isn't necessarily the alternative. A fall without a helmet could also produce serious brain trauma that might leave you totally dependent on your loved ones...

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's exactly my issue.

If you were the only person impacted by the decision, I would wholeheartedly support a right to choose. In this case, I think your family and friends should make the decision for you. They're the ones who will be impacted by your death or injury.

[Scootie]

I usually avoid helmet threads and don't ask me why I'm getting on to this one. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

If you were to ask for my opinion, I would tell you I think riding without a helmet is stupid. But if you weren't asking, I wouldn't tell you anything.

The only time I make a stink about wearing helmets would be if, heaven forbid, I ever found myself going on a commercial trail ride with certain family members. Those idiots (non-riders of the worst sort) better not even DREAM of signing those helmet waivers if I am around.

But I doubt this scenario will ever come to pass, since I have a committment to NEVER EVER going "horseback riding" with those certain relatives again! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

I have managed in recent years to get myself knocked out cold while wearing an approved helmet not once but twice. And since I don't care to know what would have happened if I hadn't been wearing one, I am a very religious helmet wearer. If I had my own property to ride on, I would insist on anyone riding on my property wear one. Or if I still had a minor child, that kid BETTER wear one.

The rest of the time, I frankly don't have the energy to concern myself with what others do. If someone is not soliciting my opinion, which you already know now, and they don't meet the above criteria, then I see no reason to get involved.

Well there was one exception. When I went on a trail ride in Arizona I told the guide I had brought my own helmet. The other woman on the ride, whose entire riding experience consisted of a couple trips a year to some dude ranch with guided trails and no instruction, made a point of saying "mine are for my kids". Then she made a big show of signing the helmet waiver. in 20-20 hindsight I should have said, "mine is for my kid too. She might be 21 years old, but she still needs her mama!"

Anyway, the option exists for anyone who cares to utilize it, and the information is readily available. More and more, the examples are being set, even in Western disciplines. Helmet use is greatly increased since even a few years ago and will probably continue to do so. But it has to be at the initiative of the individuals or it won't happen at all. So I don't agree that pressuring people to wear helmets where they are not otherwise required to do so is a good idea.

[mp]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Just My Style:
I am still trying to figure out what "scairt" is. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's a variant of a'sceered, as in "I ain't a'sceered o'yew helmut nazis."

[fergie]

cella, another Einstein....

[Just My Style]

Thanks MP. Now I get it. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Trails]

I ride both English and western. One day I was out riding (English), on a hack and I was stopped 3 times by people saying "Where is your helmet? Why are you riding in running shoes?"

A few days later I was out riding western and on a different horse. I saw the same people. There comments were " Nice day for a trail ride. Have a good ride" I was wearing no hat and my running shoes.

I guess when you ride English you wear a helmet and western you don't have to. Maybe English is more dangerous. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

[Goodyfourshoes!]

edit

[fergie]

Goodyfourshoes,
I like you. You have a healthy outlook on life. You are in the right profession - you can be my nurse any day. I spent too long in the hospital and I appreciated nurses very much - you learn who your friends are when you are hooked up to many machines and tubes in every orifice on your body ... and all from doing a pile-drive into the ground with my horse! Although I do think it's foolish to ride without one, (and that's the time I'd fall on my head for sure), I actually don't really care if people don't wear a helmet - I'm just having some fun here. Some of the people on this BB get all worked up ... it's funny!

[Blugal]

A dear friend of a friend is getting taken off life support tomorrow due to a head injury while riding without a helmet. Her funeral is later this week.

The people who are suffering are her parents and friends, who've spent the whole week at her bedside in hospital, and will spend the rest of their days without her.

[Chipngrace]

...

[bumknees]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bettie:
Yup if given a choice at those last 2 seconds I would still pass on a helmet. just as I aould pass on a seat belt ( read some of the stats and youd be suprised what they are not telling you). but then again I was taught how to fall properly and in my case it wouldnt matter one way or another if I wore a helmet, hunt cap, or baseball cap I would still end up dead if I landed on my head. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


A helmet saved my noggin on the trail.I know of riders who would be dead or brain damaged without one.

do you really think you can compare a baseball cap with a helmet? I can't believe what I am reading... good luck to you. I sincerely hope you don't get hurt.[/QUOTE]

You will notice I clearly said for me it wouldnt matter I would still be dead. As in maybe there is something about me that you are not aware of. like brain surgery which makes it so. It is near impossible for me to find a helmet off the rack and no can not afford a custom one on military pay. that fits my head with the lovely dent that goes 3/4 of the right side and down my forehead to right above my eye socket. SO what I said was correct For me it wouldnt make a differance I would be dead anyway. If I didnt fall correctly and landed on my head.

[Bettie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Blugal:
A dear friend of a friend is getting taken off life support tomorrow due to a head injury while riding without a helmet. Her funeral is later this week.

The people who are suffering are her parents and friends, who've spent the whole week at her bedside in hospital, and will spend the rest of their days without her. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

see, this is what me and my friend think of when we see our friend ride a TWO YEAR OLD without a helmet.
This is not doing a "hissy fit" this is not being a "helmet nazi" this being a concerned friend. We know what can happen.
Do I tell strangers or acqauntinces to put a helmet on? No. I wait until they pass me on the trail, say "hello" with a smile, and after they out of ear shot, say to my equally pro-helmet riding companions "boy, sure is dumb not to wear a helmet." Then, I say a little prayer for them under my breath...Yes, I do!

It's your choice. But Blugal's sad story could be prevented....My brother also told me that about three weeks ago, a neighbor was out hacking her horse, and it spooked and reared. She fell off, and hit her helmetless head. She died within 48 hours, 24 years old. Two young children. So sad. Doctors saying she would be alive if she wore a helmet...It makes me cringe to see a helmetless head. I can't help it.

But don't worry, I keep my opinion to myself. You bare headed and proud of it are grown ups, you can make your own choices. I respect that.

and geez, there are so many cool looking and comfortable helmets out there... I have a purple one with air vents. It fits me perfectly and it's light. I hardly know I have it on.

and it's PURPLE! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

and horseless, sorry if you misunderstood me. I wish you not to get hurt. And falling correctly isn't always an option...I have been taught how to fall too--but sometimes that just doesn't matter.

[Pharma Chick]

Nobody rides my horses without a helmet. Two years ago while out on a trail ride, my friend's horse spooked and she fell off. She hit her head and got a concussion, WITH a helmet on. Imagine if she hadn't been wearing one? It's just plain foolish. If you people who don't wear helmets, smoke, don't wear seatbelts, think it's your God given right to be stupid, it's not my place to judge. Good luck to you! I'm staying as safe as possible. Have a nice day!

[Lamb]

Blugal, I'm so sorry to hear about your friend. I'll jingle for strength and comfort for you and her family.

[Trakehner]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Actually, a family at one barn I boarded at did talk. They took 1 horse out of full training (young prospect that was also being competed by the BO/trainer), another full care board horse, and teenager out of riding lessons. They were very upfront that they did not want the teenager being exposed to the affair of the barn owner/ trainer with a client. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good for them for having the courage of their convictions.

[The Pie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ponymom64:
My SIL is currently in hospital in a coma, unable to breathe on her own because she was in a motorcycle accident without a helmet. There is no helmet law in Florida and she is an adult, able to make decisions on her own. Her family, kids and friends are in great pain because she felt it was more fun to feel the breeze blowing thru her hair than to wear a helmet. Yes, it is your choice to protect your head or not, but when you make that decision, you should think about how your family would feel if you ended up with a brain injury </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am so sorry about your sister in law, how tragic.

[Estelle]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Huntertwo:
If she is an adult, all you can do is express your concern in a non-confrontational way. The rest is up to her.

Or have her go on the Equichat site and see the poor woman who was paralyzed from the chest down after falling off her horse without a helmet.

It is not only yourself that you are hurting, but think of the burden on YOUR FAMILY if you were to get seriously hurt. I could never put my husband, mother etc. through that. Its selfish.

I wear mine no matter what. And I ride Western. Just my opinion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahhh, the woman broke her back and neck..helmet would not have changed that and by the way, she WAS wearing a helmet! Get your story right. Personally and this is just me, I'd rather be dead then paralized and I'd be kicking myself for wearing that helmet If I was in her exact situation.

[Goodyfourshoes!]

edit

[Noctis]

ok. i am NOT a helmet nazi. I wear one sometimes. Always when i ride/break the babies. I also will wear a body protector when on the babies. I dont care if you dont, if you are over 18 (i teach, all kiddos are req. to wear a helmet), and if you're over, its your head! I will recommend that my adult students to wear one, at least for the first ride, and if they choose not to, they sign a waiver (additional)

[Just My Style]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Personally and this is just me, I'd rather be dead then paralized and I'd be kicking myself for wearing that helmet If I was in her exact situation.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, that's unfortunate for you. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif
I had a friend when I lived in FL that was paralyzed in a non-horse related accident. She owned two BEAUTIFUL quarter horses and groomed them (even picked feet) and rode them each everyday. She had a great husband who was very supportive of her condition and her horse habit. We were all so used to seeing her in her wheelchair around them that you didn't notice after awhile. Her horses loved her and they didn't notice either.

Oh- and she always wore an approved helmet when she rode them in her western tack. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Phaxxton]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Personally and this is just me, I'd rather be dead then paralized and I'd be kicking myself for wearing that helmet If I was in her exact situation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's really unfortunate that you feel that way. I'm sure a lot of disabled people - not to mention your family and loved ones - beg to differ. At any rate, paralysis is generally the result of a severed spinal chord - an injury that cannot be prevented by wearing a helmet.

You could also hit your head the right way and end up severely disabled, but not dead while wearing your helmet.

Let's face it, whether you want to wear a helmet or not, they CAN and DO protect against certain very serious injuries. They don't protect against every injury, but seatbelts don't either... For me, it's an easy step to take to protect against a certain type of serious injury.

[eventable]

Hmmmm, well, let's see. A mother takes her 11 year old daughter out on a hack. Mother and daughter are ambling along quite happily, miles from anywhere, when mother's dressage horse makes thirty foot shy sideways - at nothing. Imagine the perfect parabola as the mother soars into the air and lands thwack onto her head. Imagine the 11 year old, alone, having to face the fact that her mother is now dead, due to a stupid and completely unforeseeable accident which would not have been fatal if she had been wearing a helmet.

Thankfully my mother was wearing a helmet that day; as it was, she spent over a week in intensive care, her brain injury causes her problems to this day, and we were jolly lucky not to lose her.

FWIW, my younger brother was dragged for upwards of a quarter mile after a fall in which his foot got caught in his stirrup. He wasn't wearing appropriate riding footwear, but luckily was wearing a helmet. A quarter mile being towed by a galloping pony by the ankle = smashed knee, severe concussion, and the end of his riding aspirations.

So yes, I might be a helmet (and boot) nazi, but I'm doing my best to make damn sure my mother doesn't get that phone call from the hospital.

[cdc]

I just had to chime in here. I am one of the sometimes helmet wearers. I wear a helmet when doing any high risk activity: ALWAYS when jumping, playing polo, riding a green or unknown horse, etc. When hacking my horses around? Not always.

I think the key to head safety is not to land on your head in the first place. A helmet might prevent a concussion but it won't do anything for compressed vertebrae or a spinal cord injury and you're courting either or those conditions each and everytime you land on your head. Not landing on your head might sound like an impossibility, but with a little training you CAN learn to fall correctly and at least limit the probability of being injured when taking a spill.

When I was young, each time I fell off, I would tend to land badly, often on my head or back. I always wore a helmet and never got more than bumps and bruises (knock on wood), and it certainly was incentive to hang on longer next time but eventually I began to think that I needed to learn how to fall correctly, before I really got hurt.

Since then I've had tumbling classes in gymnastics, lessons in Pony Club about how to fall correctly/emergency dismount, and am currently in a Judo class where we spent the first 4 weeks falling from a number of different positions and learning how to fall correctly (head tucked, arm slapping the ground to disperse some momentum before the rest of the body hits, landing with the largest surface area possible, relaxing into the fall, expelling air before you hit, etc.). In that Judo class, we get thrown 20-40 times per hour of class (multiply that twice per week) onto a hard, wrestling mat. And, since it is a sort of martial art that involves sparring, you don't always get to chose how you fall (particularly if you are up against someone who is better than you--I regularly run across this because I am one of two girls in the class, and the other 30 people are guys who have wrestled or done martial arts-- I get tossed relatively often). For anyone who has never been thrown over a 6'4" guy's shoulder in an ippon seoi nage (one armed shoulder throw), it's about like falling from a horse...except scarier! There's something to be said for being able to trust your body to take over and minimize damage when you're caught off guard and gravity comes into play.

A helmet can do wonders but won't protect you from a broken back, neck, arm, etc. Depending on how you fall, you could still fracture your skull or recieve brain tramau. Instead of hiding behind the relative safety of a helmet, I would rather be proactive and avoid the possibility of landing on my head as much as humanly possible. In my thinking, wearing a helmet in those circumstances where I am more likely to come off is an extra precaution.

[cdc]

BTW, for anyone who is curious about my Judo exploits- I mentioned that we get thrown 20-40 times in an hour session and I thought I might mention that I have yet to walk away with so much as a bruise. Interestingly, the most comfortable falls are often the ones with the most momentum because your entire body lands simultaneous and distributes the shock/force equally throughout- assuming you have proper form when falling. Granted, we do fall on a mat-floor but they are hard mats and only give a little more than dirt or wood footing.

I'm often sore the next day from our drills (think pushups, squats and lunges) but NEVER from the falls. Well, okay, there was one fall where we were supposed to jump over two people on their hands and knees and land in a roll. I jumped, but forgot to roll (I've never been very good at multitasking http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif) and landed on my sternum on the mat about 8 feet away. I was a little sore after that (not to mention a bit embaressed). But so long as I don't do anything stupid, I'm not sore http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

So for anyone who was thinking that I'm limping out of every class, I've yet to injure myself (and I'm really a clumsy person!). Our instructor recently took a spill off of a motorcycle at 50 miles per hour after hitting some gravel and walked away with 4 stitches (in his leg) because he fell so well. If he can do that, falling off a horse should be a relative breeze.

[Declaring]

Here in the UK I get the feeling helmets are a lot more standard- but then the western scene here is a lot smaller!

I've only once seen someone out riding hatless and I nearly put my head through the bus window in amazement when I saw them, whipping around to stare!

Does anyone else remember the post made here by the mother of a young rider who fell off when messing around at the yard, the horse was standing still, landed on her head and died? I have NEVER forgotten how much it hurt to read her words and even linked to them on other sites. It was heartbreaking reading.

It's definitely the family who'll suffer most if you are lost and their pain would be all the worse if they know that it could have been prevented.

[Phaxxton]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I think the key to head safety is not to land on your head in the first place. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, if we could always control how we land, the helmet argument would be moot. The simple fact of the matter is, no matter how good you are at falling (and yes, you should know how to fall properly), you CANNOT always control how you land. I'm VERY good at tucking my shoulder and rolling away from a fall to protect my head. There have been two incidents where I fell that there was no way in hell I'd ever have been able to stop myself from hitting my head. I once feel off staight backwards, landing flat on the ground, breaking my back, smashing the back of my head into the ground - and walking away with not even a minor concussion. No possible way I could have prevented hitting my head due to the way I fell.

Another time, I soared head first into a jump standard - again backwards, taking a huge chunk of styrofoam out of my helmet.

I'm sorry, but while it's possible to help yourself fall correctly, I'm not willing to bet my head that I'll be able to fall correctly all the time.

[Sandy M]

Well, I think there is a point to be made with regard to the "better not to land on your head" comment.

When I first learned to ride, my first few lessons were spent in LEARNING TO FALL OFF - learning to "tuck and roll". First from a standstill, then from a walk, then from a trot, eventually from a canter. I think that very few instructors these days give that kind of instruction.

I've been riding since my teens, owned my own horse since my early 20s. Accidents happen. But only twice in all these years have a "landed on my head," and one of those accidents was when I was foolishly sitting, bareback and helmetless, on a Shetland Pony and someone whacked it on the butt and it scooted out from under me (result: slight concussion).

I think people do need to "learn" how to fall.

[TBsRgr8]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cdc:
I think the key to head safety is not to land on your head in the first place. A helmet might prevent a concussion but it won't do anything for compressed vertebrae or a spinal cord injury and you're courting either or those conditions each and everytime you land on your head. Not landing on your head might sound like an impossibility, but with a little training you CAN learn to fall correctly and at least limit the probability of being injured when taking a spill. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

When you've been knocked unconscious while still in the saddle, you don't really have much choice in how you land. I took gymnastics for 6 years as a kid and so always had relatively injury-free landings as a result for the first 12 1/2 years of riding until that little 3 y.o. threw his head back in my face and knocked me out... then kicked me in the face on the way down. So, I got a double-whammy along with full impact of however I landed and the girls that were watching thought they remembered seeing me flip over after initial impact on the ground. Unfortunately, in this case the helmet did not proctect the most highly impacted areas. It won't change how often I choose to wear my helmet.

[cdc]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The simple fact of the matter is, no matter how good you are at falling (and yes, you should know how to fall properly), you CANNOT always control how you land. I'm VERY good at tucking my shoulder and rolling away from a fall to protect my head. There have been two incidents where I fell that there was no way in hell I'd ever have been able to stop myself from hitting my head. I once feel off staight backwards, landing flat on the ground, breaking my back, smashing the back of my head into the ground - and walking away with not even a minor concussion. No possible way I could have prevented hitting my head due to the way I fell.

Another time, I soared head first into a jump standard - again backwards, taking a huge chunk of styrofoam out of my helmet. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just thought I'd point out that, while I agree that you can't always control how you fall, in the aforementioned Judo class we've learned how to protect ourselves in all manner of falls- front rolling (like you mentioned), straight front falls, side falls and backwards falls. The key to falling backwards is landing about halfway between flat on your back and flat on your side. If you land flat on your back, you're going to get hurt. Same with landing flat on your side. If you land correctly, it doesn't hurt at all (this is actually my favorite fall). Also, you have to tuck your chin to prevent the head-hitting the ground routine.

Not saying it would have prevented your injury (the amount of force from being launched by some burly guy can't begin to compare with that from a horse), but you can't land in a rolling fall everytime. I think it's important to cover the other potential ways you could land and be able to do them when necessary. Can't help you with the jump standard though. Being propelled into inanimate objects was not covered in Judo http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

[Phaxxton]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sandy M:
Well, I think there is a point to be made with regard to the "better not to land on your head" comment.

When I first learned to ride, my first few lessons were spent in LEARNING TO FALL OFF - learning to "tuck and roll". First from a standstill, then from a walk, then from a trot, eventually from a canter. I think that very few instructors these days give that kind of instruction.

I've been riding since my teens, owned my own horse since my early 20s. Accidents happen. But only twice in all these years have a "landed on my head," and one of those accidents was when I was foolishly sitting, bareback and helmetless, on a Shetland Pony and someone whacked it on the butt and it scooted out from under me (result: slight concussion).

I think people do need to "learn" how to fall. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I DID SAY that people need to learn how to fall. That doesn't mean they should then not wear a helmet. You cannot control how you fall every time you fall. Period.

[Phaxxton]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cdc:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The simple fact of the matter is, no matter how good you are at falling (and yes, you should know how to fall properly), you CANNOT always control how you land. I'm VERY good at tucking my shoulder and rolling away from a fall to protect my head. There have been two incidents where I fell that there was no way in hell I'd ever have been able to stop myself from hitting my head. I once feel off staight backwards, landing flat on the ground, breaking my back, smashing the back of my head into the ground - and walking away with not even a minor concussion. No possible way I could have prevented hitting my head due to the way I fell.

Another time, I soared head first into a jump standard - again backwards, taking a huge chunk of styrofoam out of my helmet. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just thought I'd point out that, while I agree that you can't always control how you fall, in the aforementioned Judo class we've learned how to protect ourselves in all manner of falls- front rolling (like you mentioned), straight front falls, side falls and backwards falls. The key to falling backwards is landing about halfway between flat on your back and flat on your side. If you land flat on your back, you're going to get hurt. Same with landing flat on your side. If you land correctly, it doesn't hurt at all (this is actually my favorite fall). Also, you have to tuck your chin to prevent the head-hitting the ground routine.

Not saying it would have prevented your injury (the amount of force from being launched by some burly guy can't begin to compare with that from a horse), but you can't land in a rolling fall everytime. I think it's important to cover the other potential ways you could land and be able to do them when necessary. Can't help you with the jump standard though. Being propelled into inanimate objects was not covered in Judo http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You need to reread my post carefully. What I said was I BROKE MY BACK when I landed flat AND hit my head. I just luckily walked away without a head injury as well, in large part due to how I landed. I'm not in any way advocating landing flat on anything - that's how you get hurt.

The whole tucking your shoulder to roll thing is basically the same thing as you're describing - landing not flat on your back or flat on your side. Rolling once you DO land in that position, however, is important to get away from the horse and also to prevent further injury.

It's VERY important to lean how to fall. I do agree with that - It's NOT in any way an alternative to wearing a helmet IMHO.

[class]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TBsRgr8:
When you've been knocked unconscious while still in the saddle, you don't really have much choice in how you land. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

just curious, how does that ever happen?

[Sabina]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by class:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TBsRgr8:
When you've been knocked unconscious while still in the saddle, you don't really have much choice in how you land. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

just curious, how does that ever happen? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Well, there's lawn darting, and then there's tree kissing.

[class]

so, you hit a branch because your horse runs you into a tree limb that you didn't see coming?

what is lawn darting?

[cdc]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">What I said was I BROKE MY BACK when I landed flat AND hit my head. I just luckily walked away without a head injury as well, in large part due to how I landed. I'm not in any way advocating landing flat on anything - that's how you get hurt.

The whole tucking your shoulder to roll thing is basically the same thing as you're describing - landing not flat on your back or flat on your side. Rolling once you DO land in that position, however, is important to get away from the horse and also to prevent further injury. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I guess I didn't do a very good job of explaining. When you do a backwards fall in Judo, you do land flat, in the sense that there is no rolling involved. However, you want to land about halfway between flat on your back and flat on your side. I wasn't there to see what happened of course, but I'd imagine if you go off a horse backwards, rolling isn't as necessary to get out of the horse's way (considering that unless the horse is exceptionally talented, he's probably still moving forward and away from you). My point was more that landing in such a position (flat on the 3/4 length of your side with no rolling) is not the ultimate death sentence. If you learn how to fall that way, then you can control it. I think horsepeople tend to learn only the front rolling fall, if any. Personally, I feel more secure knowing that I can fall in a number of ways without getting hurt than hoping that I always come off in a way that I can roll, because as you've acknowledged, sometimes it just doesn't work out that way.

As far as not using a helmet because you know how to fall, I am not advocating that at all. I just have a problem with people who think their helmet is a catch all for any kind of fall...the helmet may prevent a concussion but not necessarily other head and neck tramau. I worry about some of the people I meet who seem to think that they're safe just because they are wearing a helmet.

[TBsRgr8]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by class:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TBsRgr8:
When you've been knocked unconscious while still in the saddle, you don't really have much choice in how you land. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

just curious, how does that ever happen? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Young horse; third time with rider
<LI>Goal after lunging nicely: 10 steps of walk in the big ring while there are other horses for company
<LI>Horse freezes. Someone comes to assist at the bridle, both leader and rider continue to quietly but firmly ask for walk
<LI>Horse explodes in a buck; rider thrown a bit forward but able to right herself fairly quickly
<LI>Rider in 2-point ready for critter to take off in a bucking fit, thinking, "I've got it". (last thing rider remembers)
<LI>Horse has other ideas and throws his head/ neck back in rider's face and successfully knocks her out; rider had bruise on back of arm and no broken facial bones/ teeth, we think rider shielded face with arm since there was also a perfect hind hoof shaped bruise from kick on the way to the ground on same area of face that would have taken the first blow
<LI>Will be a very long time before rider gets on another Arab, if ever. Rider left with a nasty case of post-concussion syndrome that has lasted 4 1/2+ years that continues to leave her effectively disabled from the constant dizziness and frequent migraines. Rider has ridden personal horse 3 times in the last 2 years. Hopes for a career training horses gone up in smoke.[/list]

[Phaxxton]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cdc:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">What I said was I BROKE MY BACK when I landed flat AND hit my head. I just luckily walked away without a head injury as well, in large part due to how I landed. I'm not in any way advocating landing flat on anything - that's how you get hurt.

The whole tucking your shoulder to roll thing is basically the same thing as you're describing - landing not flat on your back or flat on your side. Rolling once you DO land in that position, however, is important to get away from the horse and also to prevent further injury. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I guess I didn't do a very good job of explaining. When you do a backwards fall in Judo, you do land flat, in the sense that there is no rolling involved. However, you want to land about halfway between flat on your back and flat on your side. I wasn't there to see what happened of course, but I'd imagine if you go off a horse backwards, rolling isn't as necessary to get out of the horse's way (considering that unless the horse is exceptionally talented, he's probably still moving forward and away from you). My point was more that landing in such a position (flat on the 3/4 length of your side with no rolling) is not the ultimate death sentence. If you learn how to fall that way, then you can control it. I think horsepeople tend to learn only the front rolling fall, if any. Personally, I feel more secure knowing that I can fall in a number of ways without getting hurt than hoping that I always come off in a way that I can roll, because as you've acknowledged, sometimes it just doesn't work out that way.

As far as not using a helmet because you know how to fall, I am not advocating that at all. I just have a problem with people who think their helmet is a catch all for any kind of fall...the helmet may prevent a concussion but not necessarily other head and neck tramau. I worry about some of the people I meet who seem to think that they're safe just because they are wearing a helmet. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's really interesting, thanks for the info. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I had no control over how I fell that time, unfortunately. I've never hit the ground that hard in my life. I heard my body smack the ground and had the wind knocked out of me. I think I've seen that sort of land in martial arts before. I'll have to keep that in mind!

I have to say, I've never met anyone who thinks they're invincible b/c they have a helmet on. I've never met someone who thinks they can be stupid just because they're wearing a helmet - at least, not anyone who wears one every timet they ride. I also have never met anyone who thinks a helmet prevents spinal chord and other injuries. I think we're all aware of the risks. Helmets are just a way to prevent a certain type of injury. I don't see anything wrong with that, just b/c they don't protect against every injury.

[Sandy M]

Ummm.... I just said I thought people needed to be taught how to fall (off a horse), not that being taught how to fall obviated the need to wear a helmet. I know how to fall AND I wear a helmet 90% of the time when riding my own horse, and 100% of the time when riding any other horse.

When I was teaching, I also taught not vaulting as a discipline, but how to vault off a horse (emergency dismount). The kids were quite willing to do it at a standstill and at a walk, and I finally got them to do it at a trot. But when I finally asked for a vault off at the canter (This was not all in one lesson), they demurred. They finally said they would do it if I would, and so I took one of their horses (the smallest one!) and put it into a slow canter. The moment I shucked my stirrups and slack the reins a bit, the little bugger took off, but I was committed, and so I impressed the &*()%$ out of my students by doing a vault off and landing on my feet at a full gallop. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Sannois]

Well I know how to PLF!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Seahorsefarmtobe]

I teach all my beginners how to "emergency dismount" from the first lesson, and practice each lesson (usually at the end, so they don't have to remount). That being said, of course they all wear approved helmets...

[Sandy M]

Seahorse, I think you must be one of the few who do these days! Kudos! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[allicolls Aefvue Farms Deep South]

I have complete respect for people who choose to wear a helmet all the time. It's a wise choice. I also respect people who choose not to. Why? Because it's their choice, not mine. I wear a helmet when jumping or riding an unfamiliar horse. Most of my riding is done in a western schooling saddle, in which I feel pretty secure. Sure, horses are unpredictable, and I could be thrown at any time. But I'm an adult, and when riding my own horse, who is as bombproof as they come (though of course no horse is totally bombproof), I choose not to wear a helmet. It might be different if I grew up in the hunter world, rather than the AQHA world. As it is, I started riding at age 8 and never knew people even rode in helmets until several years later when I started riding huntseat. I didn't own an approved helmet until I started occasionally jumping at 14.

The bottom line is, acting self-righteous and sanctimonious about your helmet choice - whether pro or con - isn't going to do anything to convince the other "side" that you're right. People who choose not to wear helmets are probably not likely to be convinced to wear them. All of the arguing only stirs up the "helmet war" that really shouldn't exist anyway.

[KathyR]

I also always wear a helmet when riding, and when taking horsie back to his pasture. When I was in high school, I was turning out a dead-broke pony before school, something spooked him, and he pulled, kicked out, and caught me on the side of my head. It didn't hurt, more like a thud, but during my first period class, I typed the first and third paragraphs together, did not even see the middle one-luckily I had a great teacher who brought that to my attention, then she looked at my eyes, and said to call home. Really bad concussion. I've been wearing mine since then.

[Voguesmum]

I wear my helmet all the time. Also a eventing vest(more for my bad back.

I never wore one as a kid either but now that I am a parent I feel I must set a good example for my daughter(7). The majority of stables where I live do not allow under 18 to ride w/o one on their premises(insurance issues).

I never harp on anyone else for not using one; but if they wish to ride one of my horses; they have to. I don't want to get sued by a friend that rides my horse w/o a helmet and then get sued when they get hurt.

My 2 cents.

[Sannois]

Mr. Bumpkins theory is enough to make anyone wear a helmet! Scary!
Not to make this about Parellis, But those people are an accident waiting for a place to happen, I cant stand watching them do their games bareback jumping over barrels horses all over the Arena, not a Helmet in sight. How irresponsible of them to tell their students that they are not necessary. The greatest riders in the world can still fall off. They are horses the best trained ones are still unpredictable!

[Robyn]

Do the Parelli's really say that helmets are not necessary or are they just leading by example (or lack of)???? I did attend a "NH" clinic this spring on a whim and there were no helmets in sight there either....no wonder I felt out of place http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Robin

[Fluffie]

Here's another perspective: Unless complete beginners, most riders realize that helmets exist and agree (not meaning to put words in anyone's mouth http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif) that they are good things. Keeping that in mind, there is no reason to run around hounding people about wearing them. It is the person's right to decide what to wear or not wear unless that person is the charge of another (such as taking a lesson with a trainer, riding at a boarding barn, etc.). Unless one is directly in charge of that person, leave him/her alone. If that person is a friend, sure, discuss helmets out of concern. But, leave it be at that. If I had a friend who constantly harped on me about wearing a helmet, I would cross that person off my list for not respecting my viewpoint. If a stranger was following me around constantly "reminding" me to put a helmet on, I'd complain to the BO.

FYI: I wear a helmet when I'm jumping, riding a horse that isn't mine, and if my horse is spooky/wild for some reason. Otherwise, I do not. Out of approx. 55 horses at our barn, only the h/j lesson people wear helmets regularly.

[Shahrazade]

I started at a h/j barn, so I love my brain bucket. However, I trail guide sometimes, and it ruins the Western image to have the guide wearing a helmet, according to the guy who runs the place- so I don't wear one, but I ride a big, sweet older mare who knows the trail so well that I could lie back and sleep, and she'd guide the ride.

I am the only one at my current barn who ever wears a helmet except when jumping. I wear mine on the two year olds I work with, but not always on the older horses. Before I moved to this barn, I always wore my helmet. However, a great deal of the trick to not sustaining a head injury is to not fall on your head- and over the years I've developed a pretty good seat and a nice flip-n-roll technique if I'm already coming off. I land on my butt or my feet 90% of the time. I wear a helmet when riding ponies, because they're so quick that I don't have as much warning.

I should wear my brain bucket all the time, but I don't if I'm pretty sure I'm not coming off- however, I advise everyone I know to wear them all the time. Do as I say, not as I do! If I move my horse again, I will probably go back to wearing the 'wuss hat', as some of the lesson kids call it, all the time.

Point is, the environment and, dare I say, peer pressure affects even intelligent and experienced adults.

[chai]

While I believe that everyone has the right to decide whether or not to wear a helmet, I think that people who refuse to wear a helmet should take a moment to think about the people who care about them and would be left tending to a brain-injured Mom, daughter, son, spouse, or planning a funeral just because someone didn't feel like wearing a helmet and had an accident. Is it really worth it?
Does anyone else remember the moving letter posted here by the Mom whose daughter died a couple of years ago when she jumped on her pony at a big show without a helmet for just a quick ride, and he threw her? That post was heartbreaking. With horses, anything can and does happen, and it only takes a fraction of a second for a disaster. A few years ago, I saw a man fall off his horse in front of a crowd of 100 people watching the stadium portion of a Horse Trials. His horse took a simple mis-step and off he went, striking his head on a rock. I can still hear the sound...ugh, a loud, dull thump. He didn't get up right away, and he went off in an ambulance, but he was alive. He would have died for sure, in front of all of us, if he was not wearing his helmet.
I still believe it is up to the individual, but I just don't understand why people don't wear a helmet. They are comfortable and they can save your life.

[Karma]

For those who dont wear helmets, I just suggest that you go and work with or volunteer with brain injured folks, perhaps then you will understand why helmets are so important.

And for those of you who STILL dont wear helmets (bike, motorcycle or equestrian) I feel that it is your choice to make, but do not then apply for Medicade/Medicare, disability, public assistance, etc when you do sustain an injury. I feel that if you make the choice to not protect yourself, then society should not have to make up for your choice and take care of your disabled self for the rest of your life.

I work with folks with brain injuries, train therapeutic riding horses, event and always wear my helmet. I choose my brain over fashion.

[Phaxxton]

I can't tell anyone else what to do, and so I won't, but I will point out what I think is flawed logic... Just about every single time I've fallen off and hit my head (not often, I admit, thankfully!), it was a day that I didn't think I was going to come off. Horse was trained and calm at the outset - good weather, nothing super dangerous going on. That whole theory of only wearing it when you think you need it is like saying you'd only wear a seatbelt when you're going to drive recklessly. Anything can happen, and we can't predict when accidents are going to happen.

I also think making decisions about how and when to protect your brain shouldn't be made on the basis of fashion... but that's just my $.02. That and a quarter will get you a local call. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[~DressageJunkie~]

I would do her a favor and talk to her about what could happen.

I always wear a helmet, today I almost didn't because I was sweating but decided to be safe. I was so glad I did because my horse decided to buck me off and I landed on my head, I did not want to think about how my head would feel if I did not have me helmet on.

[Appassionato]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by inca:
Say something very nicely once and then let it go. I always wear a helmet with my young horses but usually do not with my older, more reliable horses. You couldn't pay me enough to get on a young horse without a helmet. I don't care how quiet that young horse is. However, I certainly would get highly annoyed if someone was constantly telling me to wear a helmet. It's really no one's business except mine. I DO follow the rules and wear a helmet at places that require it. But, other than that, it is my choice. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed, and I do the same. On the younger or more flighty types, I even wear my turtleback. Or when I jump, I do wear my helmet then. In any case, her head, her life. So long as she follows rules, let it go.

[PrincessDi]

In a non-judgemental way, say that you/friend is concerned about this person's safety. But only say it once. She is an adult who is fully capable of making her own decision - it's the exact same situation as a seat belt in a car. Everyone makes a concious decision about their lives, it's rather pretentious to tell someone they aren't making the right decision. If you continue to harp on it, you/your friend might lose a friend.

[ThreeHorseNight]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Phaxxton:
I can't tell anyone else what to do, and so I won't, but I will point out what I think is flawed logic... Just about every single time I've fallen off and hit my head (not often, I admit, thankfully!), it was a day that I didn't think I was going to come off. Horse was trained and calm at the outset - good weather, nothing super dangerous going on. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are so right. My worst falls all came off my own horses (calm, quiet, well-behaved for the most part). My first horse was a real slug on a hot summer day, so I never expected anything to happen. Well, he got stung by bees while I was out for a walk on the trail on a very hot summer day, and that was quite the ride (it included an emergency dismount into a tree)! That was the only time that horse *ever* ran off with me, but it was on the kind of day that I least expected it. I wasn't wearing a helmet, but it was around then that I contemplated the "every ride, every time" policy. (Wearing a helmet for every ride, that is.)

Second bad fall -- just walking my second horse around outside. It was a cold, rainy day, but that shouldn't have mattered. It did. Boom. We're airborn. Good thing my helmet was on.

Third bad fall -- just trotting over ground poles on my third horse. I do something stupid and off we go. My ribs hurt so badly (after I fell), that I didn't even know I'd hit my head. My instructor told me later I hit a ground pole with my head when I fell. I had my helmet on, and never felt my head hit anything. Ribs broken, head fine. After that I contemplate the "perhaps I should wear a body protector every ride" policy, but haven't quite enforced that yet. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I do believe it's your choice as to whether or not you wear a helmet, and I know that some people what have been riding for a long time just don't feel they ned that helmet. And I know in some disciplines helmets "look silly." I figure you only get one head (one brain actually).

[silver]

These threads always make me laugh, people are so self-righteous about the fact that if you don't wear a helmet you are putting your loved ones at risk of losing you. Um, we all ride right? There is a pretty good arguement to be made for NOT riding horses if you have children or other dependants. How would you react if you were constantly being asked by your mother-in-law and your spouse to quit riding because they were afraid you would get hurt and leave your children as orphans? There'd be a topic "My Spouse is A Miserable STupid Jerk" in like 2 seconds. And everyone would support your decision to ride, even if you were competing at Advanced Eventing on a horse named Widowmaker.

The constant tales of "I got bucked off last year and if I hadn't been wearing my helmet I'd be DEAD!!" get old too. Talk to rodeo riders. Heck, I got bucked off headfirst into a wall sans helmet years ago and was perfectly unharmed. Helmets CAN save your from injury, sure but not every injury and sometimes, just sometimes, you don't get hurt even if you're not wearing one.

[Rudy]

Coming from a person who doesn't wear a helmet, ask her about why she doesn't and make a couple valid suggestions as to the benifits of wearing one. But do it once and only once.

I have had a few people ask me and it doesn't bother me until someone tries to hound me about it and all that succeeds in doing is pissing me off. Then again, I have a short temper so that doesn't take much. LoL.

In the past nine years I've been bucked off, kicked, fallen on, stepped on, bit, fallen off due to being off balance, and fallen due to stupidity on my part. To this day the worst injuries I've had around horses have NEVER been due to falling.

I DO however where one most of the time when jumping or on a strange horse.

Before anyone asks, no I don't wear a helmet when bike riding either. I do where one when on my motorcycle and 4-wheeler though.