Spin off topic- Barn Hours?

[Jsalem]

As I posted in another topic, I'm thinking of establishing some Barn Hours. I'm not trying to inconvenience my clients, but I have some real issues with the 24/7/365 access policy I've had.

(1) Staff cannot keep up when there are horses/riders constantly in the hall and wash/grooming racks. This summer we had to clean those areas 3x a day and they were still constantly dirty. And no- riders absolutely WILL NOT clean up after themselves.

(2) This summer there was no "quiet time" during the day for the horses to rest. I really think that is important.

(3) I can't provide supervision to riders all the time. I'm having an issue with my teenage riders breaking the rules when I'm not around. Riding without anyone at the barn when they drive out there at 8:00 at night after I've gone home. Jumping outside of lessons which they know good and well is not allowed in my training program.

I was thinking about having a closing time at night- allowing for my few adults that ride after work. There really shouldn't be anyone riding after 8:00, 8:30, 9:00?

And during the summer I'm definitely going to close between the hours of 12:30 and 3:30 so the staff can finish morning chores and the horses can nap. I'd like to think the afternoon riders should be able to arrive to a clean barn and rested horses. In fact, what do you guys think of closing for lunch year round?

[Jsalem]

As I posted in another topic, I'm thinking of establishing some Barn Hours. I'm not trying to inconvenience my clients, but I have some real issues with the 24/7/365 access policy I've had.

(1) Staff cannot keep up when there are horses/riders constantly in the hall and wash/grooming racks. This summer we had to clean those areas 3x a day and they were still constantly dirty. And no- riders absolutely WILL NOT clean up after themselves.

(2) This summer there was no "quiet time" during the day for the horses to rest. I really think that is important.

(3) I can't provide supervision to riders all the time. I'm having an issue with my teenage riders breaking the rules when I'm not around. Riding without anyone at the barn when they drive out there at 8:00 at night after I've gone home. Jumping outside of lessons which they know good and well is not allowed in my training program.

I was thinking about having a closing time at night- allowing for my few adults that ride after work. There really shouldn't be anyone riding after 8:00, 8:30, 9:00?

And during the summer I'm definitely going to close between the hours of 12:30 and 3:30 so the staff can finish morning chores and the horses can nap. I'd like to think the afternoon riders should be able to arrive to a clean barn and rested horses. In fact, what do you guys think of closing for lunch year round?

[onwardb]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jsalem:
...I'm definitely going to close between the hours of 12:30 and 3:30 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You certainly have the right to do so, and I do understand your reasoning - but as a boarder I wouldn't want that kind of restriction on when I can ride my horses. And are you, when you say "close"ing the barn during those hours, restricting the owner from visiting the horses as well?

Don't know, Jsalem - there may be boarders who could live with it, but not me.

However, closing the barn after 8-ish is fine with me... Our barn hours are 7 - 8:30 summer, 7 - 8:00 winter. We all respect that.

[inca]

Are you going to be closing your barn between 12:30 and 3:30 on the weekends too? I'd have a HUGE problem with that. And if I didn't work full-time, I wouldn't be happy about the barn being closed between 12:30 and 3:30 during the week either. Those are prime riding hours.

Maybe your boarders would be fine with it, but those are the busiest hours at barns arond here during the weekend. I can't imagine any boarders around here being too happy about that.

I have no problem with a closing time at night but being "closed" during the day seems a bit odd.

[artienallie]

I've worked and boarded at a number of places that had a closing time normally around 9 or 10 at night. Most of them also had one weekday where they were closed, normally Monday. On that day, the horses were fed/turned out/watered and stalls were cleaned, but no lessons took place, and it was basically a day of rest for barn staff and horses.

Both of those make sense to me, especially if there are people living on the property - it gives them some privacy and time to be something other than the owners or managers of the barn.

But to close the barn in the middle of the day every day is just not realistic, IMO.

[khorsem]

As a busy mom, with a full time job, and a full time husband that doesn't love horse time cutting into his time with me... I get to the barn when I can- every day, but different times. Most times during the week, it's 8:30 or later when I get there, weekends can be anywhere from the crack of dawn before my son wakes up, or mid afternoon when he's napping- just depends on what's going on in my life.
I'm sure there are people that could do it, but I would never, ever board at a barn that restricted my hours.

That being said - I respect the barn rules, clean up after myself, etc. Sounds to me what you need to do is put the smack down on your boarders as far as being responsible horse owners and cleaning up and following rules... It is NOT unreasonable to ask, just common courtesy that they clean up after themselves and don't do anything stupid that will get them hurt. And if that is not possible, and they require someone babysitting them 24/7, then they should pick up the cost in their board to pay for that babysitter!

[onelanerode]

Depending on where you are, I can see closing from 12:30-3:30 in the summers -- that is pretty much the hottest part of the day and it would be unpleasant anyway.
I do agree that the horses need some quiet time.
I don't blame you at all for not wanting folks out there at all hours. An emergency is one thing, but a bunch of teens out at midnight? I think not!
However, for working adults, it's tough to get out to the barn sometimes during "reasonable hours," especially if you have a family. I wouldn't let kids out to ride late at night, but I'd be OK with responsible adults. Heck ... I might even be OK with responsible teens, but I don't want to put myself in a position where I could get sued if something happened to an unsupervised minor.

[CosmosMariner]

I believe that BOs should be able to set reasonable times that the barn is closed. I also think they should make exceptions if the situation warrants it.
I have a small stable. 15 acres, 5 boarders and my own horses. I do not limit the times that they come out. Then again my boarders are usually really good about keeping things orderly and helping out. I have had a few problems over the years and had to set my foot down.
Jsalem~ It sounds as if you need to establish boundaries with some of the younger member of your stables. I would be soooo angry at my sons if they left pizza boxes around or picked hooves without sweeping up. What kind of behavior is that?? They respect and know the rules. I realize it is not your job to parent but maybe a notice sent out to the parents and some new guidelines might help.

[Hidden]

you own the barn.. you make the rules.. but I wouldn't board with you. I'm a working adult and sorry.. I need my time whenever I can get it. One barn closes at 7:30 at night.. forget than noise.. I can't always be there before 6:30 and if I want to do some tack cleaning etc.. well 7:30 or even 8pm wouldn't work. I can see after 10pm I guess. But don't close during the daytime. If I get a chance to come out and ride early in the afternoon, you betcha I'm out there. Seems that if you think you can enforce these times.. you should be able to enforce the clean up rules. Sorry... but limited hours of operation are much worse than cleaning up and will certainly limit your customers to those wonderful teen types who can come after school right?

[AtFirstSight]

Im not sure I like the idea of closing for lunch. What if a boarder had a few horses to ride, and got there at 9 or 10. They would have to make sure they were done by 12:30. I don't know about you,but I hate rushing. My barn is closed on mondays, as a rest day for the horses. The horses are still turned out, stalls cleaned, etc. but they arent bothered by everyone running around, and bringing them in early from turnout. My barn also closes at 9 on weekdays. I work an hour away, and sometimes dont get out until almost 8. I end up rushing just to get to say hi to my boy and check on him, so that I am out of the barn by 9. Maybe a no riding after 8pm would be better, but I do think having the barn closed at a certain time at night is good so the horses can go to bed! Also, my barn closes at 7pm on saturdays, and 6pm on sundays. I never really have a problem with that. There are no lessons on sundays either which is nice because the barn is always very cute.

hope this helps!

[Eleanor]

Being a barn owner I know where you are coming from. I had to establish barn hours last year due to one boarder.

She had three horses and did not work a job so she had all day to come out and play with her horses. (I was told this by her when she first moved in). Well she would come out at 9:00 pm to ride her horses. Now most times it would not bother me but she had a young stallion that she let get away with everything. I was so worried that she would get hurt. I am ready to go to bed at 10 at night; I didn't want to be running out to see if she was fine at 11:00 pm. And a few times she left the lights on. ($$$$$$$$) So I set barn times. 8:00am to 9:00pm 7 days a week. I am flexible on the hours as long as owners are not working horses by themselves late at night.

[olympicprincess]

Do you *really* have people coming at all hours? Why can't the horses rest from 11pm-5am? We have an open barn 24/7/365, but rarely is anyone there until 11pm...usually just those hauling back home after a show. It's nice with the heat to ride later at night. (and I see you have a nice lighted outdoor & covered arena to use. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif)

I don't know about the majority of your boarders, but these potential closing times wouldn't work for me nor many of the people at my barn. I would not be able to do the drastic restriction in hours that you are considering. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif I work f/t in the summer and go to school f/t in the spring & fall. There are many times I cannot be there until after 6 or 7pm. And I often have more than one horse to ride. Also my event trainer is about impossible to schedule, so I take ANY time I can get! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The rules about unsupervised children is smart, but I don't think 15+yrs need an adult out there with them. I disagree about no one jumping if not in a lesson....unless of course they are on YOUR horses. (though I agree about *all ages* being "smart" and not trying anything new or crazy with no one out there if they get hurt)

I agree w/ the poster that said you need to enforce barn rules-- if in fact cleaning up after themselves is a rule. Do you say anything to the boarders about this? I'd want my boarders happy-- the staff can get used to working around them. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[olympicprincess]

I just wanted to add that your idea is good in that it is better to be open 7days/wk rather than 6 days. I HATE when barns have an entire day when they are closed. ESPECIALLY Mondays- I just got back last night from an event. My horse scraped up his leg pretty bad....I need to treat it again today. And even if he wasn't (slightly) injured- I like to check on them the day AFTER an event to see how they're doing.

[Chaser]

I work full time some distance from home and often have to ride after 8pm or 8.30 pm, so closing before 9.30 pm would be a big problem for me.

It's the barn owner's call, of course. I made sure when looking for a place that there weren't any set opening hours.

If you do decide to change your policy, please give your boarders plenty of notice so they can find another barn, if necessary, before they are affected by it.

[eventer girl]

For a full time adult, i would definately not board with you. I work until at least 6 sometimes and if i want to go home and change i sometimes don't even get to the barn until 8 or 8:30 -

as far as cleaning up up and letting the horses take a nap - your a working boarding facility, but it sounds to me as if your boarders are becoming your nuisance -- in which case if that is your attitude you will have no boarders left.

sorry to be so blunt but i just went through this. Barn closing becasue the BO's husband had to get up at 4 am - although she managed the barn full time, closing at 9pm was not an option for me. as an eventer i need longer to work my horse and cool out on our stamina building days.

and if i had off during the day for any reason and the barn was closed for a few hours a day that just wouldn't work either -- if you are limititing to that level when you boarders can come out --what then are they paying you for???

[Simkie]

If your boarders don't respect the rules you have in place NOW, what makes you think they'd respect a set of rather restrictive barn hours? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

I'd think a better option would be to get rid of the boarders who break the rules http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[HerMajesty]

I agree with a closing time but it would never occur to me to restrict hours during the day. Do you have a time that you open? Perhaps a set time in the morning so you or barn staff can get the morning chores done.
Another suggestion, do they have to be inside tacking up, grooming etc. In the summer we have a designated area where our riders do all this. They all know that if its nice out, there is no reason for them to be in the barn.
Also, minors can not be on my property without an adult unless its in a lesson or prearranged practice ride with us supervising(or at least keeping an eye out)
I've always had barn hours, 8am to 9pm in the summer - 9am to 8pm in the winter. The 8am time is not enforced in the summer if people want to ride very early to avoid the heat. However the winter a.m. hours are enforced so that all feeding, cleaning, etc. is out of the way before anyone arrives. If they arrive early they help http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif
None of my boarders ever show up during the heat of the day so it's usually quiet from noon till 4.
I had to be the heavy this summer enforcing the 9pm closing time(everything done, lights off and OFF the property by 9pm) My reason for this was simply security. I'm a small private stable and live here, alone. I don't need to be looking out my window when it's dark, at 9:30, 10, 11+pm and wondering about car lights, barn lights going on and off, etc. and also the safety of the property - doors, gates properly secured - or listening to my dogs bark at every sound from the barn! I've also been at it since 6am and MAY want to go to bed. Wouldn't be able to sleep with people in my barn.
I told my boarders that if I saw car lights or the lights go in the barn after 9pm, I would be calling the local police to check it out, rather than venture out myself...and they would look pretty foolish if they were the ones prowling around. Believe me everyone is gone by 9 http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The only day we sort of close is Christmas day, but it is really the arena which is closed. Everyone is still welcome to come and give Christmas goodies to there horses.

Bottom line, it depends on your clientale needs, how many people you are dealing with and ultimately what you will tolerate if it's your own place. However, I think some enforcement with the chaos during the day is in order. Make them clean up and be responsible for themselves. They must leave everything the way they found it.(this is why its important to have everything done before anyone arives, IMO)

[CHJoker]

As someone said...your place, your rules.

But NO WAY would I board with you. Plus, think of it this way...when there are people around late at night (you live OFF the property, don't you, if you go home at 8pm?) you have eyes and ears to know if something is wrong with the horses. Not to mention discouraging thieves who might think twice before entering a barn with people around at random times.

I work, and am often at the barn between the hours of 8 and 10 / 11pm. One night last year, a horse went down around 11 pm, I was at the barn alone , checked the horse, knew it was gas colic (the classic "ping, ping" gut sounds), called the owners, and the vet was out within 20 minutes of the horse going down. The vet told the owner he was lucky; the horse could have been dead by morning (it was a particularly bad colic, even with the fast intervention, the colic took 4 hours to resolve, and almost ended up in the hospital for possible surgery). I personally LIKE knowing that people are in the barn very late, and very early, and somewhere in between. My horse is far from sleep deprived, LOL.

Of course... I do not know you, but you sound really "controlling". IMHO, I pay a LOT of money to keep a horse at a barn, and that is NOT so someone can tell me when I can, or cannot see/ride my horse. OR, when my horse needs a "rest". If your boarders are fine with it, more power to you, but I personally would be finding another barn, no matter how nice the facilities.

[Jsalem]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm thinking of the clientele I have now with the hours I'm considering. I don't offer straight boarding, so "Boarders" are really training clients in my barn. I do have a couple of adults that come after work and I'd definitely consult them for comfortable hours before making a decision.

The "lunch hours" would probably be during the summer. You absolutely cannot ride here between those hours. What happened this summer is that between those hours the kids just "hung out" and made a mess. During the school year, its not a problem and when afternoon lessons start, the barn looks beautiful.

Could you folks tell me how to "enforce" the clean up after yourself rule? We have tried and tried and tried. The kids will not sweep up after grooming. They will not hang up the hose, or put up the shampoo, or hose down the mud. They will not. When I catch someone in the act, I always make them accountable. Tack that is left out gets locked in my office and they have to ask for it back. Saddle pads that are left out are laundered and charged to the client. I have alot of kids, so without supervision at all times, they make an unholy mess.

This summer I taught all morning and went to lunch and to the tack store. My groom had worked all morning and had completely cleaned the lounge before lunch. I walked in at 3:00 to find an empty pizza box on the table with crumbs on the table and floor. I walked into the hall to find out who had left it there. Of course no one wanted to take responsibility. "So and so ordered it" "So and so ate the last piece." I said no problem and took that box and put in inside the tack trunk of the child that had ordered it. I'd had it!

So you see I have several choices. (1) Accept a messy barn. (2)Work harder myself on cleaning up after these kids and trying to teach them to be neater (3)Hire more help and raise the board to cover it or (4) Try to restrict the amount of time the kids are unsupervised by having barn hours.

Any ideas?

[CHJoker]

Well, the more you explain things, the more it sounds like you have a very specific spoiled children problem.

Where are the parents in all of this?? Perhaps call a meeting, discuss the problem with the parents and children, and set the limits.

If you are in a situation where you are charging alot of money, have spoiled kids/teenagers that are hanging out, and you can't/won't do anything about it with the parents or the children (ie, kick them out, or really put your foot down because you NEED them), then you have a much bigger problem that just changing the "hours" won't even begin to solve. If they don't respect you now, they won't respect your "hours", OR, they (parents or children) will get pissed and change trainers. ESPECIALLY if those summer time hang out hours (ie, away from the house, but in a "safe" environment ) are treasured by the parents who pay the bills, LOL!

have you thought about offering a very specific "service" for those teenagers, ie, instead of fighting them, charge them for it! (and, if, in general, most of your clients REFUSE to clean up after themselves, then either you find new clients, or you hire help, and charge the clients in the form of increased fees!!)

Good luck to you.

[GrayTbred]

Jsalem, though your complaints sound valid, I agree with others that cutting the hours will not necessarily solve the problem of messy boarders, rule-breaking teens, etc.

At my barn (closing time 9:30 p.m.), everyone is expected to follow the rules, and those who don't are dealt with as individuals.

As for horsey "quiet time," if it's for your own hardworking school horses, that's your call. But cutting off afternoon access to boarders seems severe.

P.S., my former boarding barn didn't set time rules. One boarder, who took care of her daughter all day and worked the 2nd shift at the auto plant all evening, used to come by after midnight to ride in the indoor arena. Nobody had a problem with that, though hanging out alone in a dark, deserted barn would have freaked me out considerably.

[DMK]

I was just sitting here thinking I wish you were my mother when I was growing up, because then I really NEVER would have had to clean up my room. You could just work harder to keep it clean for me...

Now I know a predominantly kid based barn &lt;shudder&gt; is never going to be as neat as a barn full of anal retentive adults, but still, I think there has to be some happy medium. And as a person who really likes to make sure my horses are ridden, bathed, put up and the barn is done for the day by noon on weekends, I can appreciate that there are very few good reason to ride between 12:30 and even 6PM on weekends like the last one... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/dead.gif

But there are still reasons. Occassionally I might have to run errands early in the AM, I may need to pick up people from the airport, I may have service people coming between the infamous 8-12 (meaning they show up at noon http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif ), it may be raining in the morning , it may be raining in the evening. While it isn't my preference to ride at those hours, I am not always able to call up my personal assitant and get her to take care of those pesky details (this is probably owing to the fact my personal ass't is a hallucination I indulge in after a bottle of wine). So I can safely say it wouldn't work for me.

It sounds like your problem is more related to kids being dropped off for the day at your barn and you are either unable to be their surrogate parent or unwilling to take on the duties. Methinks that is the issue that needs addressing. (I personally fall into the "unwilling" camp, so I mostly avoid the rug rats).

[SimplySarah]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jsalem:

Could you folks tell me how to "enforce" the clean up after yourself rule? We have tried and tried and tried. The kids will not sweep up after grooming. They will not hang up the hose, or put up the shampoo, or hose down the mud. They will not. When I catch someone in the act, I always make them accountable. Tack that is left out gets locked in my office and they have to ask for it back. Saddle pads that are left out are laundered and charged to the client. I have alot of kids, so without supervision at all times, they make an unholy mess.

This summer I taught all morning and went to lunch and to the tack store. My groom had worked all morning and had completely cleaned the lounge before lunch. I walked in at 3:00 to find an empty pizza box on the table with crumbs on the table and floor. I walked into the hall to find out who had left it there. Of course no one wanted to take responsibility. "So and so ordered it" "So and so ate the last piece." I said no problem and took that box and put in inside the tack trunk of the child that had ordered it. I'd had it!

So you see I have several choices. (1) Accept a messy barn. (2)Work harder myself on cleaning up after these kids and trying to teach them to be neater (3)Hire more help and raise the board to cover it or (4) Try to restrict the amount of time the kids are unsupervised by having barn hours.

Any ideas? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You said that your program is a training program. I assume that you're training these kids. Every barn I was ever at, the most important part of that was horsemanship- and that included keeping the barn clean and being responsible for myself.
If, during the summer- and there were often several of us who stayed at the barn all day, and were most often put to work-, we made a mess, all riding lessons were grounded. We spent our lesson time doing horsemanship stuff. Cleaning tack, cleaning up the barn, ect. If they are old enough to be at the barn by themselves, they're old enough to take care of their own messes.

Explain to them that if they do not shape up, the rules are going to change. They will not be allowed at the barn unless they are supervised by a parent. If they're going to behave like little kids, you're going to treat them like little kids. If they can't and won't accept that, then you're better off without them in your barn.

I'd also put them to work. If they're there during the day, all day long, press them into your own personal army. Mess in the halls? Put them on it. Make them apart of the running of the barn- if they are given responsibilities like that, they're more likely to feel some sort of obligation to do it.

Keeping them off of the horses for a couple of lessons and doing grunty-ground work always did the trick for us (let's just put it this way.. it only had to happen about 3 times..). The threats that they are going to be unable to be there without parental supervision should also shape them up pretty quickly.

You're a trainer, not a babysitter. While they often seem to go hand in hand in regards to the horseworld, as the babysitter, you then have the right to put down stiff rules and enforce them.

A big barn meeting with all of those involved might also be a good idea. Those who AREN'T behaving like hoodlums will likely not like the idea of losing their freedom and peer pressure might be enough to shape up the group.

I hope things change for you, J, and I hope some of my suggestions might work for you!

[Aggie4Bar]

How about setting that time aside as being closed to any and all unsupervised minors and alerting parents that you will be charging an hourly baby-sitting fee for all kiddos left behind? I'd set the fee unreasonably high to discourage the few who'd rather pay for "day care" than supervise their spawns.

[baileygreyhorse]

Unless these kids are your own flesh and blood, you have a choice to have them on your property or not. If that's the way they behave, I vote for not. You are not their personal slave. Don't act like it. Talk to the parents. Make it clear that they are either supervised in your barn or they are not at your barn. Parents don't like it? OK, the trailer rolls down the road both ways.

[toomanymares]

At one place I ride:
Closed Mondays and I can ride after lessons are over during the week. Tuesdays & Thursdays they finish up around 7:30pm and Wednesdays they finish around 6 pm. If it's during the summer then you can ride during the lessons since the outdoor is huge but during the winter you have to wait for the lessons to be over. Fridays the barn seems to close by 6pm unless there is a horseshow the next day. Saturday & Sunday the barn closes at 6pm. No lesson on Sundays so you can ride whenever or whereaver. I wouldn't be able to board at this barn since (a) I couldn't make the lessons in time and (b) I think the hours are to tight.

I ride at another barn where it is 24/7/365 which is nice but I don't think everyone could do this. I think it depends on the farm setup and does the farm owner get any privacy.

My ideal would be closed Mondays to get work and whatever accomplished w/o customers interupting or getting in the way and be off the property by 9pm for those adults who work and don't live close to the barn. Weekends close down a little early (by dinner time?). That's the way it was at a barn I used to ride at and I thought it worked for everyone. They also didn't teach boarders on the weekend so it gave the trainer/BO the weekend off to do horseshows or whatever.

[khorsem]

Most places I've been - kids camping out at the barn all day, making more work for you and your staff constitutes as Day Camp - And if they refuse to clean up,you should talk to the parents and tell them that if it continues, they will be charged for Camp.

[jester1113]

We have one kid at our barn. Any time she does something stupid (and she's 11, so she has a good excuse sometimes), she's made to either rake the upper part of the field boarders field and pick up the piles and/or clean stalls.

I vote put them to work. If you don't know who is at fault, put them ALL to work. Or maybe just put them all to work regardless of who is at fault, so they'll start self-policing.

[Boston Chicken]

Closing in the middle of the day in the summer would not make me a happy boarder. I want to have access to my horse without unreasonable restrictions. Not that I would always be there, but if I am keeping my animal at your farm (a service), I expect to be able to ride, visit, care for etc. my animal during reasonable hours. Generally between 9-7 on weekdays and until 5 on weekends.

At my barn most people are done by 7:30. I may be off my horse at 7:30 or 8:00 but on late nights after bathing and grooming, I might not leave to go home until 8:30 or so on the nights where I ride after work.

If I didn't have access - I would take my business elsewhere.

[Bogey]

I am open 7 days but do ask that the riders be done by 6 on Sat. and Sun. nights. The other nights they need to out of the barn by 8:30/8:45. I don't have many underage owners (one of my rules) but the ones I do are extremely responsible and can't ride unless there is an adult on the property.
I am semi-private as I am not in a rural area and I need to keep my neighbors happy!
I am not the barn for everyone because of my rules but my clients love it here and I get referrals all of the time.
I do the main barn (8 stalls) and have the indoor ready by 8 a.m. for the boarders etc. If they come any earlier they are kind enough to put up with me as I complete the stalls.
The barn with my horses is done once the boarders barn is squared away.

I do get a request now and then from someone to go beyond the hours and I have always accomodated them.

[Lucassb]

I agree that as a barn owner, you can set whatever rules you like. But I will add my voice to the other posters who say I would never board anywhere that was closed in the middle of the day.

My whole life can't revolve around a barn schedule like that, and for what it costs me to be in a show barn, frankly I think the hours should accommodate *my* needs before the barn help's. I am not talking about being open 24/7, but I am talking about being open during reasonable business hours that allow the average client to get what they are paying for.

That being said, I'd suggest that unless you are being paid to provide a daycare service, you stop providing one.

Since you have training clients only, inform the parents that the kids are welcome during their assigned ride times and/or when they have horse related things to do (grooming, tack cleaning etc.) Advise them that if you see the kids simply "hanging out," they will be given a horse related chore to do. Alternatively, the parents can come pick them up and take them home, where they can hang out and create whatever messes they like.

In the meantime, peer pressure works very well with kids. It doesn't matter which one left the pizza box out. Simply ground ALL riding and horse related activities for all of them and tell them that nothing will resume until the barn is returned to some semblance of cleanliness. After one or two sessions of having to sweep, muck, rake and polish, they will police *each other*.

[ThreeHorseNight]

I have boarded my horse(s) for almost 20 years, and have never been at a barn that had official barn rules. One barn I boarded at was closed on Mondays. I didn't mind at the time, but that would be inconvenient for me now.

When I worked, I almost never got out to the barn before 6:00 at night, and usually later. On those later nights, I wasn't out of the barn until 9:00 or 9:30. I can understand having barn hours that say the barn closes at 9:00 or 10:00 at night, so that you can make your last check or do a last feeding, make sure the lights are out, and go to bed. And I can understand if you say those under 16 (or whatever age) can't be there past a certain hour without an adult.

But I'd have a very hard time with someplace that closed down in the middle of the day, no matter what the time. When I was working, I'd sometimes run out to the barn at lunch to check on my horse if he was sick or injured, or try to meet the vet there. Now that I'm free during the day, I do frequently ride late in the morning or early in the afternoon and would hate to not be able to do that.

As for the *real* problem -- the messy and disrespectful kids. Have a barn meeting with all boarders, and require a parent to be present for each boarder whose parents pay the bills. At the meeting, explain what's going on, and explain that if everybody doesn't start helping to keep the barn clean, you are going to have to hire help, and that's going to raise the board by xx dollars per month per boarder. If you can't get people to a meeting, send a letter home with every kid and make sure you get a parent's signature on it. It might be that you have rude kids and parents who don't care, or it might be that the parents don't realize what's going on. (And I do think there's a "snowball" effect with barn cleanliness -- when I was at a barn that was untidy and not well-kept and nobody picked up after their horse, I really didn't feel motivated to pick up after my horse. Now that I"m at a nice clean barn, I try hard to clean up my messes.) You shouldn't have to babysit these kids and chase after them. That's their parents' job! If you have everyone in full training, it would probably be a big hit to you economically, but don't be afraid to kick out kids who are too much trouble. You can build yourself a nice client base of caring, kind boarders. It's a little hard to do, but if your barn gets a reputation as the kind of place where everyone pulls their weight and takes care of things, you'll eventually have plenty of clients!

[elizabeth]

The thing with the "Mondays - CLOSED" rule is that Mondays are often *holidays.* So people who work weekdays 9-5 and often have to race to the barn to ride or ride minimally during the week are in a great position to ride on these Monday holidays. Yet they CANNOT, if the barn is closed.

Has that ever been an issue for anyone? The best day for many working adults to ride (usually one Monday holiday occurs every . . . couple months, at least) is a "closed" day.

(FYI, this is not an issue for me b/c the place where I board is open 24/7/365. . . not that I often make it out there.)

[Jsalem]

Thanks so much everybody! My barn is really clean, but I'm finding myself just worn out keeping it so. One saddle pad left out, one bridle, 2 brushes, one dirty groom rack, one leftover donut, three empty coke bottles- see it's not one person, its lots of folks leaving a little bit of a mess.

You guys have given me some really good ideas. All of my clients that I talked to thought the mid-day lunch closing was a good idea and a chance for the staff to finish chores and get everything clean for the afternoon. But I'll see.

[Duffy]

Our barn is closed on Mondays. It's been like that since my trainers first starting leasing their own place. It's down time for all, (people and horses) after the showing. It's the day that my trainers do the barn work. They like a day of peace with just the horses. It's never been a problem that I'm aware of. There are 6 other days in the week to ride.

[elizabeth]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Our barn is closed on Mondays. . . . There are 6 other days in the week to ride. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey, Duffy, none of the adults who work 9-5 have wanted to come out to ride on a Monday holiday?
When I was at your barn, the Monday rule wasn't a problem (given my primo non-schedule work schedule), but I'm just thinking that for the typical working adult, the Monday holidays would be PERFECT days to ride, if the working adult did not show that weekend.

[dab]

I would be tempted to post signs: "Your mother doesn't work here, pick up after yourself!" --

[Aggie4Bar]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Duffy:
There are 6 other days in the week to ride. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Theoretically speaking, yes. In practice, however, that's not always the case. Schedules vary.

[Jsalem]

Just rode and had some time to think through your ideas.

(1) I've decided not to spend "my" time cleaning up after the kids or training them to clean up after themselves. I'm going to use their time! I'm going to begin each lesson with an inspection of sorts. I'll hold their horses (and take a little break) while they go back in the barn and tidy up.

(2) I'll deal with tack left out the same way I deal with saddle pads left out. They'll be cleaned by staff and put away- and billed to the client as laundry or tack cleaning.

(3) I've already sent a notice to my students and asked parents to read it concerning safety rules.

(4) The barn hours issue will be tabled until I see if I can whip everybody into shape.

[SimplySarah]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jsalem:
Just rode and had some time to think through your ideas.

(1) I've decided not to spend "my" time cleaning up after the kids or training them to clean up after themselves. I'm going to use their time! I'm going to begin each lesson with an inspection of sorts. I'll hold their horses (and take a little break) while they go back in the barn and tidy up.

(2) I'll deal with tack left out the same way I deal with saddle pads left out. They'll be cleaned by staff and put away- and billed to the client as laundry or tack cleaning.

(3) I've already sent a notice to my students and asked parents to read it concerning safety rules.

(4) The barn hours issue will be tabled until I see if I can whip everybody into shape. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Those sounds like great ideas. Having their little tushes grounded for a part of each lesson should shape them up quickly. It always did us.

Good luck!

[Jo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by elizabeth:Hey, Duffy, none of the adults who work 9-5 have wanted to come out to ride on a Monday holiday?
When I was at your barn, the Monday rule wasn't a problem (given my primo non-schedule work schedule), but I'm just thinking that for the typical working adult, the Monday holidays would be PERFECT days to ride, if the working adult did not show that weekend. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

At the barn I boarded at for 11 years - we were always closed on Mondays - and special accomodations were made for Monday holidays (i.e. Memorial Day, 4th of July, whatever) so that we could all ride - AND have a BBQ, barn party, whatever. I'm sure if the Mondays closed rule was in affect special "exceptions" could be made on the rare occassion a holiday falls on that day.

[LMH]

Jsalem Jsalem Jsalem---methinks you are in need of:

1. a vacation, or
2. a spa day, or
3. a Rita, or

many or all of the above. Closing midday so horses can nap? If you want to close midday at least don't use THAT excuse http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif say you are closing because spoiled little teens don't appreciate the nice facility where they ride...and if they don't start appreciating it, then it won't be open for them to ride.

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

[aahunterjumper]

Hi JSalem,

I've boarded for over 20 years and the only time there was a situation like you describe, I was the only "kid" in an "adult" barn. Our Barn Manager ran a contest for "Cleanest Tack", "Dirtiest Horse", etc. I won "Dirtiest Tack" and it "scarred" me for life. Since then, my tack is always clean. The contest might work well with your lesson/training program. Also, the Pony Club manual is a great source of the "clean, neat and tidy" mantra. So, is "Hunter Seat Equitation".

Very glad to hear you're not doing the "barn hours" thing. I'm a working adult and live an hour from work (affordable housing) and an hour from the barn (no land left closer). Often, my riding choices are 6AM or getting on at 8PM. Trust me, neither is my choice.

Good luck reforming your "barn rats"!

[Sparky]

This just reinforces my feeling that I have the best of both worlds---a boarding barn with no kids! My 6 boarders are women who have either their own businesses or jobs with crazy hours(one is a morning drive DJ) and they all ride in the morning or early afternoon. We are open at 6 a.m. and done for the day by 4:30. Weekend days were almost always finished by noon. Have been through all the scenarios described and this is by far the greatest http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

[jetsmom]

I'm lucky to board at a barn with no real barn hours (OK...the gate gets locked at around 10:00 pm and unlocked at 6:00 am...but no one is coming out then. If we wanted to check on our horses, we can just go around the gate, but it has only happened rarely, and no one was riding then).
We only have 1 kid (16 yr old) at the barn, and the rest are adults, so everyone pretty much cleans up after themselves.
The trainer rides in the am and most of us ride either am or evening.
I guess we are really lucky!

[Pat]

Having been the BM at more than one barn, I am still amazed that people think the barn is "theirs 'cuz they paid for it." Uh, no, *I* paid for it, you get a bill for specific services. The owner/manager/trainer and/or groom at the barn is/are not your personal slave that should be available to you 24/7/356. How would you like it if clients treated you like that? Sheesh.

The number one thing I have learned from the many examples I have witnessed is that YOU set the tone. (sorry for ripping off ER) One of my freinds has a sign on his tack room door that reads "If you don't like the way this barn is kept, help yourself to a broom." And his customers DO help themselves! His barn is always very clean and he doesn't have hot and cold running grooms, either.

You can have your barn closed in the middle of the day, trust me. One farm I managed, that was part of the system. During the school year, weekday lessons were generally in the afternoon/evening. Weekend lessons were all day, 9ish to 4ish. When the kids were out of school, the lessons switched to AM and NO BODY rode after lunch until the horses had dinner around 4 or so. If you couldn't ride in the AM, you waited until the evening. WE were closed EACH AND EVERY MONDAY Period, end of discussion. We never lost a boarder or a lesson kid over the schedule and had a waiting list nearly all the time.

If the kids are running wild, put them to work. I did. They sure do at Briarwood! When I was a kid, I couldn't just "hang out" with out "helping out" too. You are not a baby sitter, don't act like one. I don't care if kids hang around, but they better be doing something useful.

For all you folks that ride thier horses between 1 and 3 pm in the summer, you should be ashamed. It's too hot!! At the afore mentioned barn, I would stucture my schedule to avoid the heat of the day, or at the very least only teach the most basic walk-trot kids, and in the indoor out of the sun.

[Huntertwo]

Yeep! I'd be gone before you can say "Here is my 30 days notice!"

Quiet time for the horses? Wasn't that something done in Kindergarten? Mine gets to sleep all night, she doesn't need a nap during the day. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sleepy.gif As much as I love my pony, I think people really start to over analyze and micro manage ever little aspect of their lives.
They are horses!

Also, by the time I finish cleaning up the house in the morning and getting some stuff done, I arrive at the barn between 11:00 AM-12:00 noon. Ride, then go home to get supper going.

I understand having some type of closing hours, but to close in the middle of the day? No way.

It is your barn but you might have some pretty miffed off owners.

[SaddleFitterVA]

Depending on how zoning rules work out, and how kind neighbors are, some places might be required to have rules.

I think 6am-9pm are were in the zoning regs for Loudoun County.

I simply made it "all external lights must be off between those hours".

To be honest, it is my home, and I don't really want someone out there riding right now, almost 11pm, I have to get up and go to work in the am.

So, if someone wanted to leave, that would be ok. If you want 24/7 access always, buy your own farm. Simple as that.

If I wanted to be out there riding, right now (no lights), no problemo. If I wanted to be out there riding, and had invited a boarder to join me, no problemo. If I'm in bed, my neighbors are in bed and outside lights are on, that is a problem.

Mel

[Huntertwo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Duffy:
Our barn is closed on Mondays. It's been like that since my trainers first starting leasing their own place. It's down time for all, (people and horses) after the showing. It's the day that my trainers do the barn work. They like a day of peace with just the horses. It's never been a problem that I'm aware of. There are 6 other days in the week to ride. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But you have to remember we are no longer a Monday-Friday 9-5 working society. I used to work Tues-Sat. MY weekend was Sunday and Monday.
People have different work schedules nowadays.
Again, its your barn. But I would not board were I could not visit my pony 7 days a week.

[TheOrangeOne]

I'm 15. I pick up after myself, clean tack after every ride, my horse and all of her stuff are always kept clean, and yet Someone just said thier ideal barn contains no kids. Rotten apples spoil the whole bunch. My feeling, J, is that you have a couple rotten apples. I also don't agree with the "put them to work" idea. If your adult boarders were doing that, would you make them do chores unrelated to thier offense? Let the punishment fit the crime. The kids are paying customers (well, thier parents pay for them, but they're still paid for) Don't treat them like babies. If you had an adult making a mess, leaving crap all over the lounge, etc., you would probably give them a couple of notifications that it is unacceptable, and that should the behavior continue, they may continue at a different facility. Enforce it. I bet that after one of them is asked to leave, the others will shape up quickly.

[blue02]

I'm much too tired to read all the replies to this thread, but I thought I'd give my two cents. I have a crazy schedule. Full time college student with two jobs boarding 40 minutes from my apartment-- sometimes I have day classes sometimes night classes.... all over the place. But I still manage to ride at a reasonable time. It is a place of business. You can and should have hours. My barn does not have hours. However, it is pretty much 7am to 10pm. Nobody comes out otherwise, unless they are going to or coming home from a show. I think it's just out of respect, especially if an owner or barn manager lives on the premisis. Closing during the day might be interesting. You could close your riding areas for a couple of hours during the week, but not the weekends. I dunno. It's a tough call, but it's all yours to make. Good luck.

ETA: I have been boarding since I was 14 years old. I have always always always cleaned up after myself and behaved responsibly around the farm. It should also be understood that breaking the rules will have consequences.

[Fairview Horse Center]

Assign one of the students to be the manager's "assistant" for each day. Rotate.

I saw an article not too long ago about a barn that solved it's problem by rewarding the students with "fake" money/dollars. Then at the end of the month? they could turn in their dollars for special, fun things. They had some great ideas. Maybe it was in Stable Management?

[atr]

I don't see why the kids should get rewarded for doing something they should be doing anyway.

I'd make it very clear to the parents that you aren't running a child minding service, and put them all to work (in fact, can you lend me a couple? I've got some paddocks that need picking...)

[furlong47]

I was one of those 'barn rats' when younger... the difference, I suppose, being that I always worked hard and cleaned up after myself. 9 years later I'm at the same barn with no real 'barn hours' and great people who still work hard and keep clean... I guess I'm lucky.

We always had a general sort of unspoken rule that as long as you were taking care of the work that needed done, it was okay to hang out afterward. But nobody was just sitting around when things were needing swept or groomed or cleaned or mucked. Perhaps you just need to make it clear that the barn is for horse-related activities.... not pizza parties.

[Jsalem]

Here's how the afternoon went yesterday:

3:30 barn was spotless.

4:30 Group- sent kids back into the barn before we started their lesson. They had swept up, but had left their halters lying on the ground. They took the time to make sure the "lesson" kids (non-owners) had cleaned up their areas.

5:30 Group- Group wasn't ready, so I walked thru the barn. A disaster. Every available crosstie was full. Every horse on the hall had hoof pickings on the ground, several halters on the ground. By this time there were several empty drink bottles in the lounge and scattered around.

6:30 Finished, walked through the barn. One washrack had a pile of poop in it. I loudly asked who had been in there. One kid, dressed back in her school clothes and ready to go home was targeted and acted completely surprised, "Oh, I must not have noticed."

So there you go, anatomy of a messy barn. I will continue with my quest.

I agree with those of you in support of hours. It is a business. Those who demand 24/7 access to their "kids" need to have their own barn. I'm shocked at the number of folks who expect to be able to show up before dawn or after dark. What they don't understand is that whenever a client is at the barn, there is the expectation of service. A client has every right to expect a clean hall, dragged arena, stocked bathroom, barn manager access for questions, concerns, comments. I want to do a good job, but how can I be "on staff" 14 or more hours per day? That's just not reasonable. It's not very nice to call your barn manager at 9:30 at night to ask her if she's seen your girth when she's been up working since 6:00. Your barn manager dosen't need to worry that your horse was only out for 2 hours today because the farrier was there and is the spooky type anyway- what if you fall off when no one's there? See, a barn manager's job isn't done until all the horses are tucked in bed with hay and water and the lights are off. After hours is also the time that boarders tend to look around, find fault and complain amongst themselves. I'm very flexible, so if someone had a specific scheduling problem, I could work with it, but I just don't see the need for people to drop in at odd hours and expect a professinal, clean, organized environment.

Closing a few hours for lunch during the week in the summer is not a hardship for MY clientele. No One rides during that time. And I still think the horses need a quiet time. One thing that people comment on about my barn is that it seems like such a happy, content place. This summer during the week was too chaotic. Next summer I will be moving all my lessons to AM and will be at least encouraging (if not requiring) minors to be picked up by 12:30 so the hall will be clear and staff can bring horses in, use the washracks if necessary, clean the hall and groom areas. Horses can eat their hay and chill until the afternoon "session"- and that session will start with a clean, professinal barn. I can go to lunch, do paperwork, give barn tours to prospective clients, whatever- in peace.

I don't like the Monday closed idea. I've been in barns with that and clients adapted, but it means I can only teach Tue-Thur when I show. That's what I've learned though- clients adapt to whatever routine you set out as long as it's clear, especially in a training barn where the schedule is based around lessons and shows.

Again, thanks for all the input. It's so interesting to hear all these points of view.

[Jo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pat:
For all you folks that ride thier horses between 1 and 3 pm in the summer, you should be ashamed. It's too hot!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Call me crazy - but seeing as horse shows do not "intermission" from 1 to 3 p.m. I'd rather my horse be acclimated to working during these temperatures than throwing them in the show ring once or twice a month when they aren't used to working in those conditions...

Besides - here in Texas - 1 to 3 p.m. isn't the hottest part of the day usually. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[Chaser]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pat:

For all you folks that ride thier horses between 1 and 3 pm in the summer, you should be ashamed. It's too hot!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm. That depends where you are, of course! And how long your summer lasts. We had our summer last Sunday! (And I am now very sunburnt because I can't remember the last time I needed to consider sun block!!)

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[SED]

JSalem --

We board at a barn with ALOT of kids (my 16 year old being one of them). I believe that they can be trained to be neat most of the time -- but never all of the time. Their brains just aren't wired that way yet. You are fighting a losing battle, so you need to take that into account.

I think your idea of closing the barn in the summer during the noon-3 hours is fine. I live in Houston and no one in their right mind would ride during that time. If nothing else, it would be very unfair to the horse. You can also put in the rules that exceptions will be considered on a case by case basis in advance. that can protect the adult rider for whom you might want to make an exception.

However, you will still have the late pm/early evening rush and succession of lessons. And there will always be kids leaving drinks, etc. around.

I guess my thoughts are that you should enforce the important things, and not sweat the small ones. No one should leave drinks or pizza around. They should clean up their poop in the wash racks. But if someone's halter is on the ground at the edge of the aisle (out of the way, but not neatly hung up) after they have tacked up, who cares? The halter will have to be put on again after the rider gets off. Its not a big deal. If someone leaves their bridle hanging up in the aisle rather than being neatly put away in the locker, they are risking theft, but its not a safety problem. I don't object to the concept of you cleaning it and putting it away (and charging a fee for that), but I think there are probably more annoying problems that should be a higher priority.

If you are too anal on neatness, you will only make yourself miserable.

One idea(which may or may not work):

Solicit the older kids to be your allies on a rotating basis: give them an incentive (e.g. a free private lesson) for being a kind of hall monitor for a month. I think this might help even if these older kids are otherwise prime violators! For example, "Jane" can be in charge of reminding the riders of various things during August, "Mary" during September, etc. Schools have used this effectively for years. That way, you don't always have to be the bad guy.

When there are lessons in quick succession such as at your barn (and mine), part of the problem is that there are never enough cross-ties and wash racks. So the kids feel alot of pressure to tack up and get out of their quickly. That contributes to their carelessness. Frankly, I would be upset if a child didn't move their horse (while I was waiting for the cross-ties) to sweep up their hoof picking detritis. It seems to me that needs to be done only after the whole lesson rush is over.

Sorry for the long post, and I wish you well.

[Duffy]

I'm with Jo on all counts. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Back on the Monday thang. We've never lost a boarder to my knowledge because of this rule. Obviously, there are exceptions. If a horse needs to be ridden for a vet or tried for sale, etc. If I'm treating my horse for something, I just call ahead to let them know when I'll be out to do it. But, there are no lessons and there is no routine riding on Mondays. Sometimes I will have been out of town over the weekend and really want to ride on Monday. But, I've never asked for the rules to be changed for me under those circumstances.

I've been at barns where there are no "closed" days. I've never ridden more often at those barns.

My trainers are very flexible on the other 6 days of the week and I'm grateful for that. They do ask that you turn out the indoor ring and barn lights when you leave and obviously clean up after yourself. No one wants to walk into a messy barn in the morning and I don't think it's fair for the staff to have to go turn out the lights after a boarder has left.

[ESG]

Jsalem, I feel your pain. Being a BO that's had a large child/junior clientele at times, it's hard to avoid.

That said, I think you need to relax a bit. The drinks bottles and pizza boxes lying around? You bet I'd pitch a hissy fit behind that. I'm not their maid, and anyone in my house (which includes the barn) picks up after him/her self. But the other things - hoof pickings, crossties being full, halters on the ground? Not worth stressing over. You will NOT be able to keep the aforementioned from happening during lesson rush or any other high traffic times. Clean ONCE before, and ONCE after, and count yourself lucky that you're busy enough to have this problem. You'll make yourself nuts otherwise. It IS a barn, after all. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Now, as for the hatchlings that insist on breaking the rules when you're not there? Boot 'em. Not right away, but let them know in no uncertain terms that if you even THINK they're jumping without you or riding without appropriate supervision, they'll be cordially invited to hit the road. Doesn't matter if they think it reasonable or not; this is YOUR place and YOUR rules. That's the cool part about being a BO; you get to say what goes. Hard part is sticking to your guns and being willing to lose a few clients over it. It may not happen, but you have to be prepared that it might. And if it does, just call the next person on your waiting list. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JMO. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[harv525]

Just IMHO.... it is your barn and you can regain control - but you need to be tough.

for the messy kids - charge them. For everything. Send them home with a bill for clean up fees, etc - their parents will get the message. Post your barn rules and send a letter home to each parent as well, therefore when you start charging extra fees this won't be a surprise. If the parents don't care about the extra fees atleast then you can hire someone else to check up on things and keep the barn clean with the extra revenue you're bringing in! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

At my barn, nothing other than leather is allowed in the tack rooms. Period. No saddle pads, etc. They must all be in your trunk and everyone respects this rule. It has been known on occasion, for the trainer to not teach someone who has disobeyed the rules. Even something as small as putting your paddock boots away.

For closing the barn mid-day - seems rather unnecessary and nearly impossible to pull off. What if a lesson runs late, or a horse is super sweaty, etc. Once you make an exception to allow one to stay past 12:30 - all bets are off.

I would never board at a barn that closed midday or on mondays. But I do respect the 9PM closing rule at my barn, and I work crazy hours but I make it work.

[Boston Chicken]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jsalem:
Those who demand 24/7 access to their "kids" need to have their own barn. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think anyone on this thread (or maybe I missed it) is expecting access 24/7 - it has consistently been "reasonable business hours." Most of us do recognize it's a business - but it's a service business for the boarders. But, like many have echoed, it's your place http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Just My Style]

Jumping in late...

Personally, I would have an issue with the barn being closed in the afternoon, since that is prime riding time for me when the little barn rat is at kindergarten. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif However, I see no problem with setting a closing time at 9:00pm. It starts to get dark around then and is the perfect time to do a evening walk through and final clean up.

As far as messy boarders, well I can't even really understand that. My old trainer had a "my barn/ my rules" motto. She would confiscate EVERYTHING and lock it up in her tack trunk. One kid had to take a lesson bareback because she left her saddle out. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif No bridle? Well, you either had to do your lesson in a halter and lead rope or find a kind soul to borrow you one. Imagine that you are leaving for Devon and you have no girth. Oh well. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> If the kids are running wild, put them to work. I did. They sure do at Briarwood! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pat- why doesn't that surprise me with Jack and Katie? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

[Jsalem]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">However, I see no problem with setting a closing time at 9:00pm. It starts to get dark around then and is the perfect time to do a evening walk through and final clean up. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah, but see, I sometimes come to the barn at 8am. I don't want to do a "final walk thru/clean up" at 9pm! That's an 11 hour day! Those aren't reasonable business hours.

[elizabeth]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I'm shocked at the number of folks who expect to be able to show up before dawn or after dark. What they don't understand is that whenever a client is at the barn, there is the expectation of service.... I want to do a good job, but how can I be "on staff" 14 or more hours per day?... See, a barn manager's job isn't done until all the horses are tucked in bed with hay and water and the lights are off. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
If I were a client showing up "late" (at 8 p.m. or something), I wouldn't expect the barn manager to still be there if the barn manager starts her day at 6 a.m. That *is* crazy. If there was a huge issue when I got there to ride (it looked like someone's horse was down colicking or someone's horse on night turn-out was three-legged lame by the gate), I'd take the liberty of calling the barn manager at home to see if she wanted me to call the vet (or she'd call herself), but, beyond that, *I* certainly wouldn't expect anyone to be around at 8 p.m., dragging the ring or sitting around to answer questions. And I agree with Duffy about the late people having to be extra careful to turn out lights and clean up after themselves. While leaving a mess is never a good thing, I think it is particularly rude when the "messer" is messing up a barn that has been left clean at the end of the day and is expected to be clean in the morning when it opens.

As to being uncomfortable having folks at the barn when you are not there, that's a tough issue. If you have a range of clients - both kids and working professionals - you basically would need to LIVE at the barn, then, in order to have hours to accomodate all. . . . No?

[elizabeth]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Ah, but see, I sometimes come to the barn at 8am. I don't want to do a "final walk thru/clean up" at 9pm! That's an 11 hour day! Those aren't reasonable business hours. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh - you were posting when I was posting. Hmmmmm. If I were a working woman, riding at your barn, I likely couldn't get there before about 6:30 or 7 p.m., right? (I'd get off work at 6 p.m., drive to the barn, change, be in riding clothes at 6:30 or 7.) I'd be tacked up by 7:20 (assuming my horse is out on night turn-out, so I'd go get him, bring him in, clean him off, tack him up). I'd ride 'til 8:00, cool out, be off by 8:15. I'd hose down, clean off, re-fly spray, and have him back out by 8:40. I'd clean up after myself, put my stuff away, and be out the door by 9 p.m. I don't know that I could do it any other way, right? (And, again, I'm saying this as a woman who does NOT do it that way. I (a) have a bizarre schedule and (b) don't go to the barn much at all in the evenings these days.)

But, if I did the above, would you feel like you needed to be there until I was done (at 9 p.m.)? That is to say, you wouldn't feel comfortable saying "e, I'm out the door. Please close up after yourself, and be sure to lock the tack room when you are done"?

[ESG]

I agree with elizabeth - a BM isn't a babysitter. There is no reason, unless you're called in an emergency, that you can't leave when your last lesson is done and you've done your final walk-through for the evening. Management is one thing; micromanagment will make you crazy. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[intuition]

At the barn i used to board at (now I have my own place) we were "closed on mondays" but in the sense that there were no lessons and most of the horses were off from the previous day of showing, but boarders could still ride if they wanted to.

Barn closed at 8 or 9pm I cant remember. It was a rule that whoever was leaving last would clean up and make sure all the lights were off for the night.

This is a good thread, now that Im starting my own lesson/boarding buisness, I have a lot to consider when posting barn hours.

[Hidden]

I guess it seems to come down to two items.. you can run a barn with very strict times and rules and only have kids and lesson programs (which is what you seem to have)... or you can run a more business like barn and have more adults who can be trusted to turn out the lights when they leave and ride without your supervision. I think it is unfair to say because I expect to be able to access my horse and the barn that I expect the BM to be there for my beck and call.. that is a bit dramatic isn't it? I often ride alone (with cell phone attached) and worry about that, but you are right.. folks will accomodate your schedule by finding a barn that works with them. If you have a kid/baby sitting issue and it is not what you want.. perhaps your clients are not what you really want?

[Jsalem]

I wouldn't have a bit of a problem with what elizabeth proposes. The adults are usually very responsible.

I did have one adult that would come after hours and constantly call with one bitch after another- after hours. Really, I couldn't do anything right. I very nicely asked her to move on and we still maintain a very friendly relationship when I see her around town.

Back to my original post: My juniors are not as responsible. They have been riding when no one is around plus they've been jumping on their own- a no-no here at my barn. And they're messy.

[Penthilisea]

The barn I board at now has no official hours- but it did for a while. We had a boarder who worked part time in the mornings, Monday to friday. He would go home then come out to the barn around 7 and stay till 10pm. Ok fine, he works. But on Saturdays and Sundays he would do the same thing if not worse! Show up at 8pm and spend hoooooooooouuurs messing with his horse. And I don't mean training it, I mean combing out his mane, feeding him bushels of apples every day etc. He wasn't a very experienced horse person either so the Barn Owner felt they had to check on him periodically and make sure he was ok- BO and husband work all day - they don't want to be out there at 10pm on a saturday babysitting! They had to be on the properrty at the very least so they had no chance to go out to dinner etc. And I mean, the guy did this every weekend, without fail.

So Weekends the barn cloed at 7pm. And The gentleman moved to a new barn and then sold his horse because the new barn wouldn;t put up with his BS either.

I've been at barns that are closed Mondays- doesn't bother me. It sounds like you need a charismatic ambassador to the teens- I 've been at barns where the only adult on the property all day was the trainer out in the indoor teaching and the barn was immaculate and spotless and everything ran like clockwork all done by kids and teens.

my 500th post! woo!

[KellyS]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jsalem:
Ah, but see, I sometimes come to the barn at 8am. I don't want to do a "final walk thru/clean up" at 9pm! That's an 11 hour day! Those aren't reasonable business hours. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah, but the horse business doesn't keep reasonable business hours. That's why I chose a "normal" 9-5 job instead of doing the horses as a business. Look at a large animal vet - they have much worse hours. Vets who prefer a more normal business day go into small animal practice.

However, most barn owners I know like to do a late evening bed check - I myself go back out to my barn (my husband and I have our own place, we don't board) as late as 10/11 pm to check the horses and I live a good 15 minutes away. 8 am - 9 pm is actually reasonable hours for the horse business; many people are up before 6 am to feed/ride/etc.

If your main problem is a bunch of messy kids, that needs to be addressed before changing barn hours. If it is irritating to you, just imagine how irritating it is to the rest of your "adult" boarders who are also dealing with the mess. Perhaps you need to cater your barn to adults if having children there is causing so many problems. If you really want to cater to kids, then some boundaries need to be set.

Good luck with everything!

[JumperFun]

I really have nothing helpful to add except a sort of funny story about a person that used to come out REALLY late.

I used to live in a little barn that had been converted to an apartment (three stalls, such luxury!) We had 1/2 acre pasture board for about 10 horses. All of the owners were just trail riders, and usually were done by 6pm or so. But we had one old guy (he was at least 70 years old) that like to go for night trail rides, and I mean, he would show up at 1 am for a ride!!! He even did it on Christmas eve. One time, his horse came cantering home around 3am and we had to go out looking for him (he was OK, but had to walk about 3 miles home). After that, the owner told him that he couldn't be on the property past 10pm, so he moved to a different place.

[Boston Chicken]

JumperFun - that's just plain nuts, not to mention dangerous. I'll add that I am one of those folks who loves to fuss over my horse after a ride, which means that I am frequently one of the last to leave at 8:30 or so...it's part of the joy of horse ownership for me...but I sure as hell wouldn't do it at 11:00 or midnight. Our horses get night check, hay, alfalfa and beet pulp at 10:30 every night and then it's off to dreamland for them until 7:00 the next morning.

[philosoraptor]

It's your barn and your right to decide what hours you'd like.

I personally would be annoyed if I boarded at a place that was closed for hours in the afternoons, but that's just my opinion.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jsalem:
(1) Staff cannot keep up when there are horses/riders constantly in the hall and wash/grooming racks. This summer we had to clean those areas 3x a day and they were still constantly dirty. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dirty as in some manure? Or dirty as in muddy water, bits of dropped trash, tack pieces lying around, etc? A minimal amount of "dirty" is all part of the fun of a horse barn.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> riders absolutely WILL NOT clean up after themselves. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Penalize them with zero tolerance. Add on a "cleaning fee" each time a boarder seriously messes up an area. Create a "wall of embarassment" where this week's messiest people will have their names posts. Or I'm sure you can come up with some way to motivate people to take responsibility.

And if you have enough staff around to clean a wash stall 3x a day every day, surely your staff can also notice who is doing it. I wouldn't have them handing out the punishments but they could leave a note on your desk when they see a problem.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> (2) This summer there was no "quiet time" during the day for the horses to rest. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you mean quiet as in the horses not being used are being kept "awake" by peoples' noise? Or that the horses in general are being overused/overworked?

Horses don't sleep 8-hour blocks like we do, so it's not as big of a deal if they don't get a silent 3 hour afternoon nap. In my opinion at least, i'd focus more on making sure any one horse isn't overused. The one barn I visit keeps a log of every time a horse is ridden, and at a glance they can see if he needs some time off.

If you have people boarding there, you can't decide for them if their horses "need" quiet time. It's up to them to decide if their horses need an afternoon nap. Not to say you're not entitled to your beliefs, but shouldn't it be up to the owner to decide this?

Maybe a compromise is to limit the amount of noise, commotion, and so on for those hours?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> (3) I can't provide supervision to riders all the time. I'm having an issue with my teenage riders breaking the rules when I'm not around. Riding without anyone at the barn when they drive out there at 8:00 at night after I've gone home. Jumping outside of lessons which they know good and well is not allowed in my training program. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're right to be concerned! Trouble is teens sometimes do what they please. If you limit the hours, they'll find another time to go off and do their own thing. You can't watch the barn, arena, pastures, and trails every moment the barn is open.

Solution: threaten to kick out those who are the worst offenders. Zero tolerance. Post the rules on the wall to avoid "misunderstandings" or even better have each rider sign off on it.

I know some teens won't agree with me, but I don't think a group of minors should be running around a stable or riding unsupervised. They could come and ride if one of their parents came along to supervise the group, if they were in a lesson with an adult trainer, or if they have explicit prior permission from you each time. I know teens can be good riders and be responsible, but if they do get hurt you know the parents will blame you. You can't be babysitting each teen 24/7 and you'll go nuts trying.

But by cutting your night hours really short, you'll be penalizing the adults who can only ride after work.

Suggestion: Simply don't allow minors onto the property without their own parent/guardian present after 7 or 8pm. Also make sure parent sees the lists of rules (like no teens jumping without instructor present) so the better parents can help you enforce things.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> And during the summer I'm definitely going to close between the hours of 12:30 and 3:30 so the staff can finish morning chores and the horses can nap. ... In fact, what do you guys think of closing for lunch year round? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are two ways to look at this:

Either there aren't may people coming by between those hours (so closing won't inconveninece many people)... but if there aren't many coming by, then why can't staff clean around them and the horses rest anyway?

Or there are lots of people coming by preventing your staff from cleaning... but would it make sense to close during a busy time of the day?

Either way you look at it, the hours seem odd in my opinion. Sometimes people need to come by at certian hours. For example in that other post about the horse for sale -- it's a pain to sell a horse when a barn closes unexpectedly or early. It's also harder to schedule a trainer, vet, farrier (assuming you allow outside profressionals in). Just the idea a barn is only open a few hours in the morning, closes for the afternoon, then is open till only 7pm in the evening may bother people. We live in a world of 24 hour stores and people do like conveninence.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I'd like to think the afternoon riders should be able to arrive to a clean barn and rested horses. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As a rider I'd like to arrive to a barn I can enter and ride at than one that will be spotless clean. Every hour you're closed is an hour someone can't visit their horse, ride, or take care of business.

If you've got your heart set on cutting your barn's hours, how about compromising with your people by offering hours "by appointment". They'd have to give you advance notice they're coming by, but you'd have to be accomadating to them by not discouraging them. It'll really help people who, for example, can only meet a prospective buyer at 1pm... and it'll help you know who is coming/going.

You could also lessen the burden on yourself by appointing one of your adult staff as a barn manager. He/she would be able to also let people in by appointment and/or keep the barn open, but they would also have the authority to enforce the rules or ask people to leave.

[fullmoon fever]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pat:
For all you folks that ride thier horses between 1 and 3 pm in the summer, you should be ashamed. It's too hot!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How would suggest a person condition their horse for COMPETING at this time of day? Most of my x-country times were around noon, with stadium jumping following around 1:30-2:00 p.m.

Competing at Level III in dressage, my times were always around 1:00 p.m.

[Invested1]

As a working adult, I wouldn't generally have a problem with you closing in the middle of the day (Mon-Fri) unless I needed to have the vet/farrer/etc out.
However, limiting nighttime hours would be a problem since I work a full-time job, I can never get out to the barn before about 7pm. By the time I ride, cool down, do my stall, etc, the earliest I ever get outta there is about 9pm (though thankfully our barn hours are 7am-10:30pm every day).
On the other hand, I do not expect the BO to be at my beck and call--if there is an emergency, I can run and knock on his door, other than that, he does not need to be around other than to do his closing check around 11pm.

[Jsalem]

Great thoughts, MayS. The summer problem was that kids would ride starting at 9:30. The last group started at 11:30. By 12:30 the chaos wasn't people starting to ride, but juniors sticking their horses on the wash racks or hall and leaving them to dry while they socialized. The help couldn't get by to bring horses in, couldn't blow the hall, couldn't hose off hot horses. By 1-2:00, it was kids eating lunch or socializing in the tack room with a soda (which they would invariably leave on the tack trunks) Honestly folks, summer lunch time closing would not inconvenience my clients.

And my issue with the staff was that they have other things to do instead of cleaning the lounge 3-4 times per day.

I know the rotten hours of this job! I have a really nice barn and I do a really good job- but I won't be doing this forever. When I walk away from my big, beautiful barn (which I dearly love), I'll be returning home to my little 5 stall barn to do my thing in relative peace, having come full circle.

But for now, I sure enjoy this discussion!

[Pat]

For all you who "show in the afternoon", you do not show every day, you do not work for a solid hour at a clip at a show, and you do not need to ride in the afternoon every day to "acclimate" the horse. I can take any one of my horses to a show this afternoon and they'd be just fine, thanks. Ok, today is a bad example 'cuz it's awfully nice today, but you get my point.

The problem is usually not business hours, it's the sense of entitlement that many, many people have. I ran a largish, public, multidiscipline barn for a while. It was open 14 hours a day, 6 days a week. 98% of the boarders could handle that. The 2% that couldn't gave me more grief about the hours we kept than any other single issue. It got to the point that I would have to start turning off the lights in the indoor to get them to leave. With the exception of the 5 or 6 teenagers, each person in that barn was a working professional. Some had conventional hours, some not. Most of the horses where ridden daily, those who weren't were big pets that did little but eat and poop.

If you want to know the kind of crap that these people put me thru, just ask Lauren!, she was one of them. (we love you, Lauren)

Hey, Penthilisa, PT me, how you doin'?

[Duffy]

Pat, I don't think anyone said they needed to ride EVERY day to acclimate their horses. And, when it's as bad as it's been some days of late, I sure don't "work a solid hour at a clip". Heck, I don't do that when it's nice out! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[olympicprincess]

Jsalem- a couple Q's:

1) Do you have a waiting list? Either for other boarders/students to move in or for horses to come in for training?

2) Do you have more boarder-owned horses or do you own most of the horses?

The answers to the above may change my response. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Huntertwo]

I don't know if I can articulate my thoughts into words, but I'll try.

Its seems like you have just one problem here- a bunch of irresponsible, don't-follow-the rules kids. BLAST these kids if you have to, or THROW THEM OUT!!
Its not up to you to make up games to get them to clean up for goodness sake! This isn't preschool.

Closing your barn in the afternoon, is not going to change them. All you'll do is lose your good adult boarders, who have crazy schedules and need to ride at different times.

Its a barn. It will be dirty at times. These kids sound like they walk all over you. Get rid of them!! Sorry, I'm on a tangent here. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

One barn I was at did not let kids under a certain age be at the barn unless an adult was there to supervise them. Period.

[LMH]

JSalem-

I agree the barn should have hours-no doubt about it...or at the least least "do not call unless emergency hours"

I still think afternoons closed is going to be difficult for most people to accept.

So some thoughts.

"Juniors Hours" and Adult hours---so working adults can work within the schedule needs they have

A sign in/sign out sheet after hours. Say you "close" at 6pm but adults can ride until 9pm...if they choose to they must sign in and out so you can track who is the last person responsible.

Say for early hours...no calls before 8am...sign in and out if you ride before.

Then juniors hours from say 9-6 or whatever.

[Kikki]

Well, barn hours are pretty standard at most large show barns. We have barn hours, though they really are pretty flexible. The barn closes at 800 in teh evening, but as long as you notify the staff that you need to be out later, that is usually fine. The one thing that is problematic is riding alone. No juniors are allowed to do that at all after hours. A parent MUST be with them. Additionally if you are riding alone, you are doing so at your own risk and you need to call someone (friend, family, etc) when you get on and right when you get off. There is usually someone at the barn most of the night. Head trainer is usually in the office making phone calls and catching up on work all night. There is an appartment where the head groom works in one of the barns, and the rest of the help lives on property. The barn is closed on Mondays. This allows the horses to chill and the staff to do things that is just hard to get done the rest of the week if they are dealing with customers. Now if a customer needs to come out, just call them and ask. They will let ya. The vets and farriers like to come out on Mondays and there are one or two customers (myself included) who prefer to schedule appointments with them on their Monday visits. And for special circumstances and with prior permission you can ride - you just have to clean up afterwards and not bother the staff.

As for the kids, you need to have a meeting with them and their parents... all of them. You need to explain that you are glad that they enjoy comming to the barn, that they leave the barn a mess. They either need to keep the barn neat and tidy or they will not be allowed to hang out all day, or maybe you will set a rule that all jrs must have parental supervision while on the property. Then tell them exactly what is going on - what exactly are their offenses. I think that the parents would be willing to help you with this. Otherwise, tell them that you will charge EVERY teen a daily clean up fee every day they are out, whether they are the guilty party or not. Peer pressure may be what you need. You CAN have a barn full of kids that clean up and are respectful, you just have to DEMAND it. Otherwise tell them you are going up on your board so that you can hire someone to babysit and clean up all the time.

[Jsalem]

1Nation:
(1) Yes, I have a waiting list for students with horses to come in.

(2) The majority of horses are owned by clients.

Now, I don't want to give the impression that my junior kids are all brats. They are really good kids. But they are kids and they're messy like most teenagers. And they can be challenging to manage like most teenagers. There isn't one kid that I want to leave. Heck, if I want someone to leave, I just ask them! I guess I was just looking for some ideas to this issue.

LMH, that's a really good idea- the sign in sheet. One of the biggest problems with making the kids responsible is that no one will own up. That's not my horse's poop. That's not my drink. An after hours sign in sheet would make them stop and think.

[evenstar]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">whenever a client is at the barn, there is the expectation of service. A client has every right to expect a clean hall, dragged arena, stocked bathroom, barn manager access for questions, concerns, comments. I want to do a good job, but how can I be "on staff" 14 or more hours per day? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow, Jsalem, no wonder you're so frazzled. I have 24/7 access, though I keep fairly normal hours. After work on weekdays, and I'm on my way home by 8pm, usually, and mornings on the weekends, and I'm gone by early afternoon unless I decide to hang out to watch other people ride or I'm helping out with things. I would be there at odd hours if I had an injured horse to treat or a show to get ready for.
But never would I think the BO (or manager) should be available to me at MY every waking moment. Emergency, sure. Otherwise, I call or come out at a reasonable time of day. I also don't expect to come in to an immaculate barn no matter the time of day. I understand if a clean, swept aisle makes you feel good, but that's not my first priority when looking at a barn. If your aisle is clean at the end of morning feeding and at the end of the day, I think that's super! But don't go running around tidying every hour or every 30 minutes just for me! And if your arena is groomed once a day, watered, whatever, then fantastic. I'm not going to go showing up at a barn at 8pm for a late ride and expect the place to look like it hasn't been used all day. Again, I care that the footing is good. I'm not upset if other horsey footprints got left in it before my ride. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
I don't think you need barn hours, per se. You need set hours for yourself! And as a former coworker of mine would say, you need to "jerk a knot" in those kids! I liked your plan for that. They are probably not bad kids at all, but they just aren't showing any respect for you.

[LMH]

Oh I just think that would work for adults!

Then have a no minors rule after hours unless with a parent perhaps?

OR as someone mentioned the "group" punishment rule.

If a pile of poop shows up, every junior must clean a stall or something...whatever you choose.

Perhaps you could have an "appointment" book-where people sign up for after hour slots...that way you have even more control over who is there and responsible?

If it is an adult you would hope they would let you know if an unannounced minor shows up?

[Jsalem]

UPDATE:

Today I taught a large group of junior riders. I appointed one girl "Inspector". No one gets to leave for the day until the Inspector checks hall, grooming areas and tack room. Just walked thru the barn- COOL.

[evenstar]

Super, Jsalem!

[Dakotawyatt]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jsalem:
UPDATE:

Today I taught a large group of junior riders. I appointed one girl "Inspector". No one gets to leave for the day until the Inspector checks hall, grooming areas and tack room. Just walked thru the barn- COOL. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's great! Now I have to have the same discussion with my kids tomorrow. We'll be inspecting our areas very carefully!http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[RegentLion]

The barn where I board closes from 3 to 5 every day of the week for feeding time. It makes feeding and bringing horses in easier for everyone... just the staff are around to make sure things go smoothly (no "helpers" to interfere). Also this way the staff knows all the horses are IN THEIR STALLS and COOL AND DRY by 3 pm. every day.

On Saturdays the barn closes at 3 and does not reopen.

No one seems to mind the time schedules. If you MUST be out late, or during feeding time, etc., you just talk to the owner. If you have a 5:00 lesson you can come out at 4:30 to tack up. All in all it is very reasonable and I feel that my horses are better cared for because of the closing during feeding time... and I know the horses are safe as they can be at night.

So if it seems to be something you want to do (closing mid-day), then go for it. It will work for your more flexible clients... but those who have serious work restrictions will probably feel pressed.

[BigBlue]

our farms hours are 9-9
if you need to be out earlier or later for whatever reason thats fine, just let the BO know when and why.
Ours is tiny, 12 stalls, 2 taken by the owner, 2 taken by family of the owner, 4 by close personal friends of the owner, 1 empty stall, and us 3 real boarders who don't have long standing relationships with the BO.
Our aisleways can be messy, but its always ship shape and spotless by the end of the day and it begins as such.
Our old barn was always open, but the tackroom closed by 11:30 most days. We were all super responsible boarders though...the BO ruled by fear and intimidation..and it worked like clockwork. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif When the owners were gone though...the rebels in everyone came out.

[Jsalem]

Ah, RegentLion, so I'm not crazy! The look on my guy's face this summer as he was trying to get the horses into the barn just killed me- total frustration. He was trying to get past the horses on the hall, stepping over halters, needing to hose off the hot ones, but no empty wash racks, trying to blow the hall, but had to do half at a time- clean half was dirty before he had finished 2nd half! Compare that to the school year when he can work in peace until 3:30- and I can start my afternoon lessons with an organized work space.

I know that clients adapt to the schedule that you set up. I've lived at a barn that was closed on Mondays. At first, they complained. But it was interesting that after they got used to it, they actually liked it. They knew their kids could really focus on school work on Mondays and they could schedule all Dr. appts on Mondays.

Thanks Dakotawyatt- it takes a village!

[ESG]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jsalem:
I wouldn't have a bit of a problem with what elizabeth proposes. The adults are usually very responsible.

I did have one adult that would come after hours and constantly call with one bitch after another- after hours. Really, I couldn't do anything right. I very nicely asked her to move on and we still maintain a very friendly relationship when I see her around town.

<span class="ev_code_BLUE">Every boarder gets a set of barn rules when they move into my place, and the rules are posted in the barn. One rule requests that boarders confine their business questions (phone calls) to business hours, and to please not call except in case of emergency after 9PM. So far, everyone's cooperating. You did the right thing by asking this woman to leave - people like that will never be happy with ANYTHING you do for them, and you'll make yourself crazy trying to please them. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif</span>

Back to my original post: My juniors are not as responsible. They have been riding when no one is around plus they've been jumping on their own- a no-no here at my barn. And they're messy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<span class="ev_code_BLUE">As others have stated, that is your real issue, rather than the barn hours. Jerk a knot in these little sprats ASAP. Be prepared to boot them out, and tell them they've exactly one mroe chance not to screw up. If you find out they're breaking the rules again, it's time to hit the road. You might lose a client or two over it, but I'm betting you won't. The parents will probably applaud. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif</span>

[ESG]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Huntertwo:
Its seems like you have just one problem here- a bunch of irresponsible, don't-follow-the rules kids. BLAST these kids if you have to, or THROW THEM OUT!!

<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Exactly. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif</span>

Its not up to you to make up games to get them to clean up for goodness sake! This isn't preschool.

<span class="ev_code_GREEN">THANK YOU for saying that! Little sprats need a kick in the behind, not the promise of a gold star for doing what they should have been taught at home to do anyway. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif</span>

Closing your barn in the afternoon, is not going to change them. All you'll do is lose your good adult boarders, who have crazy schedules and need to ride at different times.

<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Agreed. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif</span>

Its a barn. It will be dirty at times. These kids sound like they walk all over you. Get rid of them!! Sorry, I'm on a tangent here. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Agreed. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif</span>

One barn I was at did not let kids under a certain age be at the barn unless an adult was there to supervise them. Period. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Excellent idea. I think I'll implement that when the time comes. </span>

[ESG]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jsalem:
One of the biggest problems with making the kids responsible is that no one will own up. That's not my horse's poop. That's not my drink. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<span class="ev_code_GREEN">To which, the proper response is, "I don't care. Pick it up. If you have a problem with that, pick it up anyway. Then go find the person whose poop/drink it is and fuss at them." http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

Everyone's got to be made responsible, or all you'll have is a bunch of kids pointing fingers at each other and your barn will stay dirty. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

JMO. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif</span>

[Madison]

This sounds like a discipline problem not a barn hours problem. The times of day it sounds like it is an issue are not really the ones where you would be closing.

Sounds like you need to establish a new set of expectations there, and be very direct. At my last barn, the trainer called a barn meeting with parents required and handed out printed sets of new rules, and impressed upon everyone that the rules would be enforced. General theme was that she was neither their babysitting service nor their clean-up service, and that anyone being disruptive or messy would be given a job to do to occupy them! A lot of this stuff becomes habit, and will probably only change if you force a new pattern/change in regime. I haven't been at my new barn long enough to figure out how they do it, but they seem to have an understood policy that everything stays neat and clean, and people abide by it. I'm not there during prime kid times, but there just seems to be an understanding that that's the way it is done there.

As far as things being left out, I'd start confiscating things and making people have to come to you and ask if you have it! Washing it for them, returning them, and charging the parents for it probably won't change the kids' behavior http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

[olympicprincess]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jsalem:
1Nation:
(1) Yes, I have a waiting list for students with horses to come in.

(2) The majority of horses are owned by clients. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh good. This will make it easier to enforce your threats of kicking them out (after being warned repeatedly). If you tell them you'll just call the next person on your waiting list, they may straighten up.

Hopefully your new inspector idea will work, but if not...I know you don't want to be kicking everyone out or get that reputation, but you're currently at the opposite side-- they're walking all over you/your barn and it's time to be real tough on them....even if only for the next couple weeks or month.

I've been dying to know- when you ask them who made the mess: are you stern or do you ask in that sweet, kindergarten-teacher type voice? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

[Bumpkin]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jsalem:
1Nation:

LMH, that's a really good idea- the sign in sheet. One of the biggest problems with making the kids responsible is that no one will own up. That's not my horse's poop. That's not my drink. An after hours sign in sheet would make them stop and think. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Guess you could put in a camera and tape it all down the aisle and show them as a group, that you are seeing who left the poop.
hahahaha
Signing in and out is not going to stop leaving the aisle dirty during the day.
At our barn, which is predominately kids, we have muck buckets and small scoops at every single cross tie down the aisle way.
It does help.

[Jsalem]

Sweet, kindergarten voice? Oh, lord, no! I'm pretty direct.

I did try confiscating items and putting them in my locked office. Unfortunately, everyone knew where the key was and they would just go and get their stuff! So we put a stop to that. Put keys to the office in our purse and made it clear to everyone that it was our private office.

I think I will have a meeting on our next weekend off and go over the boundaries and rules. It's time.

[olympicprincess]

Those must be some tough kids! When I was younger- I used to cry easily and worry A LOT about upsetting adults.- no real reason, my parents are very nice and I never really got yelled at (now I never cry http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif). If any adult ever had to tell me not to something, I'd cry and try *really hard* not to ever get "yelled at" again. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

That's why I assumed you must be overly-nice for them to not worry....I'd hate to have my stuff confiscated-- I can't believe that's not working!

[FLAbreds]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jsalem:

I agree with those of you in support of hours. It is a business. Those who demand 24/7 access to their "kids" need to have their own barn. I'm shocked at the number of folks who expect to be able to show up before dawn or after dark. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wholeheartedly agree with you on this. We ran a boarding barn and lived on the property. After a day full of people coming and going, barn chores and running around like a chicken with my head cut off I would be ready for MY TIME. Most people tend to forget that those of us that have run a barn get up at the crack of dawn and keep going until sunset without the luxury of a nap. Don't get me wrong, I loved to socialize and if someone came late after work to ride and I was in the middle of finishing up my chores I would hang out and shoot the breeze with them. But mostly after a hard day at the barn I wanted to relax and seeing that our apartment was part of the main barn, even when I was in my "home" I could still here everything that went on in the barn. That and I'd have a constant stream of boarders knocking on my door, sometimes when I was in the middle of my dinner (which would always be around 8pm) for this and that. Not to mention the boarder that showed up at 4:00 am to make sure her horse was turned out like she had asked me to do (and it was and she got our dogs barking, horses whinnying, waking us up!!) I started to resent the constant intrusion because no one seemed to care about me or me and my fiance wanting a sliver of time to ourselves. So, IMO, barn hours are a necessity, especially if you live on site. However, enforcing those hours can sometimes be hard.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">What they don't understand is that whenever a client is at the barn, there is the expectation of service. A client has every right to expect a clean hall, dragged arena, stocked bathroom, barn manager access for questions, concerns, comments. I want to do a good job, but how can I be "on staff" 14 or more hours per day? That's just not reasonable. It's not very nice to call your barn manager at 9:30 at night to ask her if she's seen your girth when she's been up working since 6:00. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

See my previous reply. I hear ya! And, like you, I wanted to be available to my boarders but like I said before not 24/7. NO ONE needs to show up on the property at 4:00 am, unannounced, and disturb us. BTW, this was the same boarder that wanted to install cameras in her horse's stall to find out how her mare was constantly ending up with scrapes on her hocks. Concrete barn, your mare was a kicker, you didn't want to put kicking chains on her so there ya go.... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Sneaking on the property at all hours while we sleep wasn't cool so I finally asked her to leave. Obviously she had a problem trusting us to care for her horse the way she wanted us to.

so, maybe what would be the best thing to do is have a barn meeting to go over your rules and regs and the barn hours you are thinking of going to. Also, do you have signed liability waivers for each boarder? I'd be afraid of someone coming out during off hours and getting hurt. If your clientele won't care if the barn is closed down for several hours during the mid day then I don't see a problem with you doing so but if they do maybe you need to be a bit more flexible by closing on a Monday. Most show barns I've boarded at were closed on Mondays and a few I worked at closed for an hour or two during lunchtime so that the staff may go to lunch, get caught up on paperwork, drag rings, tidy the barn, run errands, etc. Seemed pretty reasonable to me.

Or, you could be like me and suffer the boarding business burnout and go private!
http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

[LSM1212]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Ah, RegentLion, so I'm not crazy! The look on my guy's face this summer as he was trying to get the horses into the barn just killed me- total frustration. He was trying to get past the horses on the hall, stepping over halters, needing to hose off the hot ones, but no empty wash racks, trying to blow the hall, but had to do half at a time- clean half was dirty before he had finished 2nd half! Compare that to the school year when he can work in peace until 3:30- and I can start my afternoon lessons with an organized work space.

I know that clients adapt to the schedule that you set up. I've lived at a barn that was closed on Mondays. At first, they complained. But it was interesting that after they got used to it, they actually liked it. They knew their kids could really focus on school work on Mondays and they could schedule all Dr. appts on Mondays.

Thanks Dakotawyatt- it takes a village! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am at the barn when the dinner feeding, bringing in/turning out rotation is occuring, stall cleaning, and general clean up. I have lessons at 6:00pm 2 days a week... and the BM and helper aren't usually done until 5:30pm or later and I'm grooming or tacking up to warm up before my lesson... they used to just tell me that they are bringing horses in, etc. and I'd move... that's all. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif But after a few times, I got tired of moving so now I groom and tack up my girl in her stall (we have a tie permanently attached to the walls in the stalls). Makes clean up easier too... as I don't have to sweep, etc. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Regarding the rest... we don't have barn hours. We do have rules posted.... just your basic ones. We have one boarder that is a slob and would leave poop in the wash stall, etc. She was a college student and the only "kid" we had. Everytime she left something, etc. the person who found it, would either tell her if she was there, or call her to let her know. We do have a communications board (white wipe board) to leave notes... and sometimes it was communicated that way. But it never really got better... so she was asked to leave... she is leaving this weekend.

[lisa]

I agree with Madison about a list of rules.

Also, kids tend to follow good examples from older, more experienced kids -- especially the ones with a little more authority. If the older ones are messy, the younger ones will think it's OK.

I think every barn that teaches kids' lessons has this problem if rules aren't laid down The First Day.

It's about respect: respect for the horse, and respect for the barn and respect for the people who have responsibility for day-to-day care.

Truthfully, I think that barn hours should be more of a "suggestion" for boarders/clients. Yes, I think they should be respected, but the Barn Police shouldn't come and chase everyone out at a certain hour.

I think my current coach's farm is "closed" from 12-3, but I've certainly driven up at 12:30 and wasn't turned away. I assumed that during that time there would be no one of authority around so people were on their own.

Furthermore, I am an adult who works outside the home, and I don't get to the barn until around 7 p.m. If I had to be gone by 8 or 9, I'd never get to ride!!!

That doesn't mean, though, that I expect someone to be there scooping up my horse's poop(heck, I don't expect that anyway, at any hour, and neither does my child), or that I would expect to discuss my horses' feeding program at 9 p.m.

Personally, I think you'd want to applaud your riders who are dedicated and choose to spend their evenings in the tack instead of in front of the boob tube. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

[Jsalem]

These are actually very nice, high quality girls. The suggesions here really helped me focus on my leadership role. It's up to me to make my expectations clear. I did it in my tackroom. When I moved into this beautiful barn, I got the kids together and said, "This is MY tackroom. You may hang your bridle here and your saddle here as long as you keep them figure 8-'d and cleaned. If you can't do that, your tack will not be hung on MY wall- your tack will stay in your tack trunk. For a couple of months, I would walk into the tack room and remove anything that wasn't put away properly. I don't have to now because the kids do it! They are absolutely horrified by dirty tack! Last night when we finished, they were really proud of the way the washracks and groom racks looked. I've just got to stick with it.

And I think we just didn't make it clear that the office was private. We kept a key sort of "hidden," but everyone knew where it was. My bookkeeper got a call last weekend from one of the girls asking where the office key was. She wanted to go into the office and she wanted to log onto our computer to pull up MapQuest for a friend! Bookkeeper said absolutely not. But the child really didn't know- and if that key had still been "hidden" in the lounge, we would have been none the wiser! It's clear now.

But see, that's what happens when boarders are allowed unsupervised access to your business anytime they want. It's not their home, but they forget that. Those here who say, "I want to come and go as I please"- they don't have to pay the utility bills. They don't have to accept liablity for some silly person who makes a bad decision and gets hurt when they are riding alone.

Let's face it- When the cat's away, the mice will play!

[HerMajesty]

I agree with "when the cat's away the mouse will play!"
Not everyone child or adult is good at policing themselves and will take advantage when given the opportunity.
Although I already responded several pages ago on the hours, etc. I still can't believe that no one has really commented on the security issues involved with endless access. When I enforce barn hours its not just my own personal security(living here alone) but the security of my boarder's horses, my horses and all the tack and equipment sitting in the tack room.

Believe me I can eventually become immune to people in my barn and on the property at all hours of the night and my dogs will stop barking if I tell them to HUSH. However, I have no way of knowing when I see headlights and my barn lights coming on and off if its one of my boarders or a horse or tack thief.

There have been tack thefts in my area as well as barn and horse vandalism in the night...I even heard of a horse being loaded one evening(shipper told lone boarder that owner told them to pick up horse http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Once I explained this to my group they were very co-operative in "managing their time better" and getting out on time.

And speaking of time-management..this was the other factor in my decision. Boarders who take forever to do anything and then use the barn as a social outlet. I have one who would arrive at 4, finally finish with her horse at 6-6:30 and was still hanging about at 9pm!!! Not doing anything productive. Its not my problem if people have no where to go, hate going home and have no other lives. Or the ones who arrive, chat, wonder about and after 3hrs., still haven't done anything with their horse.

I'm not a drop-in centre, babysitting service, rec centre, coffee shop or pub. I'm also not a rendevous point for young lovers...yes http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif this is what one of boarders was doing during late night visits to my barn back when I didn't have hours and trusted that people would have common sense. Her and the boyfriend were getting it on and even showering afterwords. My son who went down for a late night check caught them http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Sheesh! Yup, cats, mice, I've seen it all.

[lisa]

Huh? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif
For many of us, the barn *is* our social outlet!!!

I, for one, am glad my teenage daughter would rather be at the barn than hanging out at the mall!

Jsalem and HerMajesty, I'm really sorry that you have customers who take such advantage of you, and that you feel as though you have to watch their every move... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

I learn(ed) So Much by just hanging out. Haven't there been threads, and threads, and threads about how both kids and adults should *watch* more? Watch the farrier; watch the vet; watch more lessons; watch a trainer school horses. Seems to me it's barn managers such as you both with your "get on and get out" attitudes who are perpetuating the fact that there are so few "horsemen".

How can people learn to be horsemen if they're not at the barn?!? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Jsalem, I know you're just frustrated because your "kids" don't clean up after themselves. But I know you have a few adult boarders as well, and I'm sure they wouldn't want to know that you're thinking about limiting their time at the barn because they're working to pay for their portion of the utility bill...

[Jsalem]

Read all my posts, lisa, my adults are in no peril. Really, neither are the kids. It would be a priority to me that I come up with a reasonable schedule so as to provide what my clients want. The hanging out that is a problem is happening when no horsemanship is being learned- they ain't learnin horsmanship when they're eating pizza (and leaving the box out).

I love the social aspect of the barn. Like another poster, I will relax at the end of the day and chat with my adults- I truly enjoy their company. But someone used the term earlier- it's the "entitlement" of some of the posters here who say they'd never board anywhere that didn't allow them anytime access. Reading some of these stories should illustrate what can happen.

[Seahorsefarmtobe]

Just gotta chime in, jsalem, that when I was a junior at a show barn certain things JUST WERE NOT TOLERATED...leaving the wash rack/cross ties dirty, leaving the hose unrolled, leaving tack out (we had to clean out tack to perfection after each ride), halters and blankets not being hung correctly on doors, etc. Leaving any other kind of mess was PROHIBITED as well (i.e. pizza box and crumbs). I know that you run a great program and your clients do very well, but I have to agree with the other poster who said these kids are running all over you!

[evenstar]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And speaking of time-management..this was the other factor in my decision. Boarders who take forever to do anything and then use the barn as a social outlet. I have one who would arrive at 4, finally finish with her horse at 6-6:30 and was still hanging about at 9pm!!! Not doing anything productive. Its not my problem if people have no where to go, hate going home and have no other lives. Or the ones who arrive, chat, wonder about and after 3hrs., still haven't done anything with their horse. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow. Who's to say what's productive. Maybe this is the one pleasant time they get in their day, and they want to enjoy it. Maybe your barn has such a wonderful feel that they want to savor it. Maybe they just like being around the horses and the whole barn thing because in their hearts they'd love to have one of their own, but they just can't swing it. And maybe the other folks at the barn are the only ones they really feel they have anything in common with.
And messing with the horse from 4 - 6:30 sounds pretty minimal to me, unless I guess she wasn't riding, in which case I suppose that horse was immaculate! And maybe she just liked the folks she was chatting up afterwards...

But I don't at all deny that BOs should be able to have some private time and lives that don't include their boarders. Just understand that a lot of boarders would kill for their own places and really do want to spend a lot of time hanging out just because it's such a wonderful thing to be able to do. OK, but NOT at 4AM, barring an emergency or valid medical treatment for the horse!

[HerMajesty]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lisa:
Huh? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif
For many of us, the barn *is* our social outlet!!!

I, for one, am glad my teenage daughter would rather be at the barn than hanging out at the mall!

Jsalem and HerMajesty, I'm really sorry that you have customers who take such advantage of you, and that you feel as though you have to watch their every move... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

I learn(ed) So Much by just hanging out. Haven't there been threads, and threads, and threads about how both kids and adults should *watch* more? Watch the farrier; watch the vet; watch more lessons; watch a trainer school horses. Seems to me it's barn managers such as you both with your "get on and get out" attitudes who are perpetuating the fact that there are so few "horsemen".

How can people learn to be horsemen if they're not at the barn?!? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Jsalem, I know you're just frustrated because your "kids" don't clean up after themselves. But I know you have a few adult boarders as well, and I'm sure they wouldn't want to know that you're thinking about limiting their time at the barn because they're working to pay for their portion of the utility bill... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

On the contrary Lisa, I don't feel my group take advantage nor do I have to watch their every move. However this point has been reached after some not so great experiences with boarders and yes, having rules, enforcing them and sometimes not being so popular. This is short lived and in the long run everyone is happier.

Also, we ran summer camps, winter weekends and spring break camps for years and years. This is where our group of girls(and a few boys over the years)came from who have been taking lessons in our school for years. Several of the original group have gone on to compete at show barns in their chosen discipline, others bought their first horses and remained with us, a couple of others lease horses from us. The youngest of the lot are just entering their senior year and will be going off to university or persuing other endeavors next year.
We are so proud of these girls. Not only are they skilled lovely riders but they are true horsewomen with tons of experience in all aspects of horse and barn care. Several do plan careers in the horse or animal business. Probably because our place was such a huge part of their lives.
This is why we did this. To give this opportunity to young people at an affordable price. Besides the lessons, we always offered practice mornings, afternoons or evenings, depending on the time of year. This would be a minimum of 3hrs but usually stretched to 6 - because we wanted them to learn more than just how to ride a horse. The parents loved it because, yes, its better than hanging out at the mall or with boys.

However, kids dumped at a barn with no plan, no supervision, who are disrespectful and have no work ethic may as well be hanging around a mall. We were always lucky to have co-operative parents who got after their kids when attitudes and laziness developed. The girls who were serious and devoted to their time at the barn quickly improved their attitudes. I can only think of one who needed more than a barn and the offer of a horse to keep her out of trouble http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif Sadly( a talented rider)she was asked to leave.

Just wanted to clarify - I do agree with you.

[HerMajesty]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by evenstar:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And speaking of time-management..this was the other factor in my decision. Boarders who take forever to do anything and then use the barn as a social outlet. I have one who would arrive at 4, finally finish with her horse at 6-6:30 and was still hanging about at 9pm!!! Not doing anything productive. Its not my problem if people have no where to go, hate going home and have no other lives. Or the ones who arrive, chat, wonder about and after 3hrs., still haven't done anything with their horse. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow. Who's to say what's productive. Maybe this is the one pleasant time they get in their day, and they want to enjoy it. Maybe your barn has such a wonderful feel that they want to savor it. Maybe they just like being around the horses and the whole barn thing because in their hearts they'd love to have one of their own, but they just can't swing it. And maybe the other folks at the barn are the only ones they really feel they have anything in common with.
And messing with the horse from 4 - 6:30 sounds pretty minimal to me, unless I guess she wasn't riding, in which case I suppose that horse was immaculate! And maybe she just liked the folks she was chatting up afterwards...

But I don't at all deny that BOs should be able to have some private time and lives that don't include their boarders. Just understand that a lot of boarders would kill for their own places and really do want to spend a lot of time hanging out just because it's such a wonderful thing to be able to do. OK, but NOT at 4AM, barring an emergency or valid medical treatment for the horse! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're right. Who is to say what is productive. However, while they are having their productive social time, I'm trying to productively, feed, clean and do a million things while tripping over them....and at the same time thinking of everything I need to do at home or possible of other obligations, commitments and plans, because I do have a life outside of my barn.(imagine that http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif) We wouldn't stand around chatting up the sales clerk or other customers when a store is winding down for the day, would we?

I appreciate that to many, my place is bliss and yes I have had some of my barn people sigh, and say they hate to leave, but they do have to have some understanding for the owner who lives there and whose job is never really done.

Oh, and yes, one particular horse is always quite immaculate. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif but sadly, some get neglected because of the social aspect. I have no problem chatting up the women, the girls and even the parents, while grooming and tacking up my horse...
They should be able to do the same. I'm thinking of the horse here.
Really, this is only an issue for me in the evening. I have a pretty quiet place. Lots of days where no one is around, several hours or even days where the arena is not in use and one could have it to themselves for hours and hours. This is also not a case of people not being able to make it because of their work hours. They have all day. Weekend mornings I put coffee on and we all like to get caught up then but once the evening rolls around and its obvious that the barn is being closed down, its time to have some consideration. They will go home to their other lives and barn owners like to do the same - its just tougher for us because we live on the property.

[jonquilTN]

All I have to say is I'd kick their messy butts JSalem! I know what it is like to pick up after lots of messy people. Been there- done that. YUCK. I would not, however, close the barn during day during any hours. I have been at a few barns during my life and all have had different barns hours. Some good- some bad.

I was actually at one that was closed on Mondays AND had barn hours on "open days" of 9 AM to 4PM . 9-5 during summer. Oh- and Sunday was 12-4pm. and one more thing, you were encouraged to "schedule" your barn time in advance. Talk about limited hours....

[Seahorsefarmtobe]

IMO, cleaning the sadllepads and tack, and then charging a fee probably won't stop the problem. These kids (read: their parents) have money, so what's a few extra dollars to them? You'll end up being chief tack cleaner and saddlepad washer. I say tell them that items left out will become property of the barn and not returned to them...just as if they "lost" them.
They need to learn that riding also includes responsibility to their barn surroundings - it is all part of good horsemanship.

[eponacelt]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HerMajesty:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by evenstar:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And speaking of time-management..this was the other factor in my decision. Boarders who take forever to do anything and then use the barn as a social outlet. I have one who would arrive at 4, finally finish with her horse at 6-6:30 and was still hanging about at 9pm!!! Not doing anything productive. Its not my problem if people have no where to go, hate going home and have no other lives. Or the ones who arrive, chat, wonder about and after 3hrs., still haven't done anything with their horse. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow. Who's to say what's productive. Maybe this is the one pleasant time they get in their day, and they want to enjoy it. Maybe your barn has such a wonderful feel that they want to savor it. Maybe they just like being around the horses and the whole barn thing because in their hearts they'd love to have one of their own, but they just can't swing it. And maybe the other folks at the barn are the only ones they really feel they have anything in common with.
And messing with the horse from 4 - 6:30 sounds pretty minimal to me, unless I guess she wasn't riding, in which case I suppose that horse was immaculate! And maybe she just liked the folks she was chatting up afterwards...

But I don't at all deny that BOs should be able to have some private time and lives that don't include their boarders. Just understand that a lot of boarders would kill for their own places and really do want to spend a lot of time hanging out just because it's such a wonderful thing to be able to do. OK, but NOT at 4AM, barring an emergency or valid medical treatment for the horse! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're right. Who is to say what is productive. However, while they are having their productive social time, I'm trying to productively, feed, clean and do a million things while tripping over them....and at the same time thinking of everything I need to do at home or possible of other obligations, commitments and plans, because I do have a life outside of my barn.(imagine that http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif) We wouldn't stand around chatting up the sales clerk or other customers when a store is winding down for the day, would we?

I appreciate that to many, my place is bliss and yes I have had some of my barn people sigh, and say they hate to leave, but they do have to have some understanding for the owner who lives there and whose job is never really done.

Oh, and yes, one particular horse is always quite immaculate. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif but sadly, some get neglected because of the social aspect. I have no problem chatting up the women, the girls and even the parents, while grooming and tacking up my horse...
They should be able to do the same. I'm thinking of the horse here.
Really, this is only an issue for me in the evening. I have a pretty quiet place. Lots of days where no one is around, several hours or even days where the arena is not in use and one could have it to themselves for hours and hours. This is also not a case of people not being able to make it because of their work hours. They have all day. Weekend mornings I put coffee on and we all like to get caught up then but once the evening rolls around and its obvious that the barn is being closed down, its time to have some consideration. They will go home to their other lives and barn owners like to do the same - its just tougher for us because we live on the property. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I absolutely understand if boarders who are just hanging around physically get in the way or want to talk, but is it really so hard to end a conversation by saying "Hey, I'd love to chat, but I really need to get these chores done so I can do x,y, and z with my family" or ask them to move so that you can finish taking care of their horse? I hear this from my own barn owner that she never has time for her horse because she's always talking to boarders, but honestly, I can't think of one person (at our barn at least) that wouldn't be able to understand a simple explanation like that.

[DMK]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I absolutely understand if boarders who are just hanging around physically get in the way or want to talk, but is it really so hard to end a conversation by saying "Hey, I'd love to chat, but I really need to get these chores done so I can do x,y, and z with my family" or ask them to move so that you can finish taking care of their horse? I hear this from my own barn owner that she never has time for her horse because she's always talking to boarders, but honestly, I can't think of one person (at our barn at least) that wouldn't be able to understand a simple explanation like that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Hey, the rest of us in jobs get to do that all the time. People call you when you have other work to do... People stop by your office/cube/whatever (unless you work at home http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ), people send you non work related e-mails* - the world just doesn't stop and revolve around YOUR need to finish your work, and by no means is this something limited to BOs and BMs (I wish!). But either you learn to tell them you are otherwise occupied and they need to let you finish your work or you become a professional victim. Your choice.

* however e-mails like the one Madison just sent me are ALWAYS welcome! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

[olympicprincess]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I'd have a constant stream of boarders knocking on my door, sometimes when I was in the middle of my dinner (which would always be around 8pm) for this and that. ...I started to resent the constant intrusion because no one seemed to care about me or me and my fiance wanting a sliver of time to ourselves. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Our barn that is ALWAYS OPEN does have rules about not calling or knocking on the BO/BMs door at unreasonable hours-- for THEM. They get up very early, so you can call early, but not later in the evening (unless there is an emergency of course).
They tell people this and try to remind them...most people at our barn are pretty good about it. I leave notes at the barn or email if there is something that I need to share w/ them that is not super-important.

I think I understand now why they built their new big house on the back of the property at the top of a hill (looks down over facilities). http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif To go up and bother them takes some effort...you can't just walk 20ft over to their front door. Something to keep in mind for those of you building your own property. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

[chaotic mind]

Well you could try the peer pressure method. Send out a notice explaining that the failure of people to follow the barn rules and clean up after themselves is causing extra work for you and your staff and hence costing you more in the additional labor. Therefore you are going to have to raise the rates across the board by 20%. You do not wish to do this so there will be a one month period to see if you clients can do a better job of policing themselves and help keep costs down.

This way either they clean up their act or you get extra money which might just make dealing with the mess a little easier. The key to this though is that everyone will suffer even if it is just one sloppy person. A potential 20% increase should cause the others to take care of that sloppy person for you, without you having to say a word.

As far as the hours. Never been at a barn with hours myself even when I boarded on a military base. I do know that because of my job in the military I often had to come at odd hours. I remember in particular having to come a 5 am to soak a horse's hoof. So with the hours you propose I would have to join those who say I wouldn't board there with that restrcition.

[Madison]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DMK:
Hey, the rest of us in jobs get to do that all the time. People call you when you have other work to do... People stop by your office/cube/whatever (unless you work at home http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ), people send you non work related e-mails* - the world just doesn't stop and revolve around YOUR need to finish your work, and by no means is this something limited to BOs and BMs (I wish!). But either you learn to tell them you are otherwise occupied and they need to let you finish your work or you become a professional victim. Your choice.

* however e-mails like the one Madison just sent me are ALWAYS welcome! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wholeheartedly agree - it comes with the territory in every job, and is up to you how you handle it. A simple "I'm sorry I can't chat right now, I have to get this finished" has never failed to solve the problem for me.

There are going to be times that boarders want to just hang out there, unwind, etc . . . and yes, I do feel like that's my perogative as a boarding customer. But that does not have to translate into disrupting the BO/BM's abilities to do their jobs. My new trainer and her husband are good friends with my sister, so I've known them for years before boarding with them, but it doesn't mean I'm going to try to sit down and have a chat with them while they are trying to get barn work done!

And, DMK, happy to oblige on the email http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

[eponacelt]

Madison and DMK - Well said. Thank you.

[Simone]

I wouldn't board at a barn with restrictive barn hours - but, I wouldn't board at a barn full of sloppy teenagers either. I do think that your hours and rules need to be such that you can live with them first and foremost - and what might work fine in a barn full of adult, responsible riders, won't work in a barn full of kids. Ditto for small vs large barns - it's an awful lot easier to feed and muck around two or three boarders than twenty.

As my barn owner says - it's impossible to please everyone, so it only makes sense for the barn owner to set things up to work for her/him (thereby hopefully avoiding burnout), and then to get and keep clients who fit in with the way things are, rather than trying to change things to make potential clients happy.

As long as the horses are healthy and happy, there will *always* be more than enough owners who are willing to fit in with whatever schedule you decide on. The ones who can't or won't, are better off elsewhere.

[Jsalem]

Simone, that was very well said. Thanks for your post.

That kind of sums up my philosophy. There is a lot of business in my neck of the woods- and a lot of good trainers and barns. I've tried to design a program that I like. And then I'm really upfront about what I do and what I don't do. People screen me really hard, and I screen them right back. I try to listen to people when they call me and try to read between the lines. My goal is to have a program full of like-minded people. I don't design my training program around what any one client wants- I don't let one client monopolize the show schedule. I set the tone. I lay out my philosophy. Honestly, it works for me and I've been successful.

As I read through these posts, I can see that some of you would be happy with me and some would not. That's really OK. People are kind of shocked when, after listening to their wants and needs, I refer them to and endorse other programs, but it's a beautiful thing to be able to say, "you know, you might really like so and so's program. She does a great job." This would be a better industry if we stopped trying to sell ourselves to everyone. I realized years ago that, frankly, I don't want to be everyone's trainer!