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mrslipstick
Nov. 7, 2011, 08:31 PM
Hi All,
How important is a show record to all of you when considering purchasing a new horse? If they've been shown at decent shows and ribboned, but not "cleaned up", does that count? Or, is it more important that the horse have potential to grow and learn with you. And, the fact that the horse is honest, smart, willing to work, and enjoyable to ride...

Can I hear what you think? Thanks!

Rel6
Nov. 7, 2011, 08:49 PM
Hi All,
How important is a show record to all of you when considering purchasing a new horse? If they've been shown at decent shows and ribboned, but not "cleaned up", does that count? Or, is it more important that the horse have potential to grow and learn with you. And, the fact that the horse is honest, smart, willing to work, and enjoyable to ride...

Can I hear what you think? Thanks!

It depends on what I am looking for. If I'm looking for a made show horse, I want to see ribbons in its division at the level of competition I need it to do. (For an "A" circuit low/mod jr jumper I want to see ribbons from big shows (Florida/Indoors/etc) in that division. For a local circuit children's equitation/children's hunter I'd want ribbons at C-rated shows.)

For a greener horse placings are less important (especially jumpers! we all understand {and appreciate!} that you don't to run your 4 year old jumper around the 3'3'' jumpers like a maniac) and I would put rideability, talent, potential, willingness to work and its brain in general higher on the list.

Kestrel
Nov. 7, 2011, 10:15 PM
I'm 54. I want 'been there, done that, have the ribbons to prove it'. My old bones have no business on a green horse if there is any chance of baby hijinks.

If I was 28 and ride like I do now, I would likely be looking for a 4-6 year old to bring along.

Lucassb
Nov. 7, 2011, 10:29 PM
Hi All,
How important is a show record to all of you when considering purchasing a new horse? If they've been shown at decent shows and ribboned, but not "cleaned up", does that count? Or, is it more important that the horse have potential to grow and learn with you. And, the fact that the horse is honest, smart, willing to work, and enjoyable to ride...

Can I hear what you think? Thanks!

Depends on what the horse is being marketed as. If it's a young horse that I'm considering for the baby/pre-greens, obviously I don't expect it to have a big show record, and I'm looking more at the horse's quality & potential.

If I'm looking for a competitive $$$ show horse, on the other hand, I want to see proof that the horse has done what it's being advertised for.

RockinHorse
Nov. 8, 2011, 06:43 AM
A lot depends on price. If the horse is priced as a horse with a winning show record, I expect it to have one. If it is priced more as a prospect or middle of the roader, I would expect to see much less in the way of show results.

It also depends on what I am shopping for. If I want a fun horse to show then the "honest, smart, willing to work" qualities are going to be more important than show record.

If I am looking for a horse to hit the big shows with this season, I would be looking for a show record.

FWIW, generally I buy greenies and bring them along because I enjoy the journey (and a horse with a winning show record is often more than I am willing to spend ;)) but it is nice to see that the horse has at least been out there a little bit and been able to handle it

fordtraktor
Nov. 8, 2011, 10:03 AM
For a greener horse placings are less important (especially jumpers! we all understand {and appreciate!} that you don't to run your 4 year old jumper around the 3'3'' jumpers like a maniac) and I would put rideability, talent, potential, willingness to work and its brain in general higher on the list.

This is consistent with what I have found buyers to expect of a nice green jumper. Lots of video of good, solid, clean or 4-fault rounds with low or no ribbons but showing a lot of scope is better/more valuable than something that wins all the time but doesn't have much talent. A confirmed children's horse is a $15-$20k horse, maybe if you are lucky. A talented horse currently doing 3'6 with scope for more is twice or three times that.

I got offered 6 figures for my first jumper several times and his record was very thin, largely due to my inexperience and mistakes. I was holding him back from a good career. Should have sold him if I had any sense! Instead he is buried out under the pines on the farm after a long retirement. I am much better at collecting horses than selling them so perhaps take my advice with a grain of salt.

findeight
Nov. 8, 2011, 10:19 AM
Depends on how you market the horse and...as always...PRICE. And remember a record proves claims of show mileage.

If you advertise it as a Hunter? You need to have proof it can negotiate a show hunter course-doesn't have to win but it needs to get around pretty good, can be Green but no big blunders or disobedience. That will price it up but also tell the buyer what it is capable of.

If you say it is a potential Hunter or prospect? Less proof is needed-but it is going for less of a price then the same horse with a record would go for. If it's never been off the property and you do not have any access to real show jumps with decoration and actual measured distances? Not much to go on besides the seller's biased claims.

Know who your likely buyer is. Very important to your marketing strategy. Record is important to serious show buyers willing to pay for it. Not so important to those shopping with limited funds...but they have limited funds and are looking for a bargain.

Life is Good 2
Nov. 8, 2011, 11:07 AM
I think a solid show record shows consistency. There are always some highs and lows but if the record looks consistent under a variety of judges it says something about the horse.

mrslipstick
Nov. 8, 2011, 08:57 PM
thank you everyone for your great advice! The horse is priced in the mid 5 figures. She has lots of good qualities...shown in the large juniors at A shows, but also in pre-childrens at 2 smaller shows. Even did low junior jumpers last year in Ocala over the winter. Nice horse, but not really good ribbons. But maybe rider didn't do the best job or the program the horse was in wasn't good fit. All I know is that I can get on, relax, and jump around a 3' course and I'm just moving up from 2'3 - 2'6 stuff! What do you think...too much $ for that? She's a nice mover but needs some training to go more like a hunter...

salymandar
Nov. 9, 2011, 08:06 AM
Show records of horses that have been shown by a junior or ammy can help paint a picture of what the horse has done and how it competes, but it can be hard to judge quality or performance of the horse based on its show record alone. It may be minor (or major) rider errors that keep the horse out of the ribbons, or at least in the low ribbons.

What I would look at, is consistency. Are there major gaps in the show record? They could be due to injuries or training issues, but they could also be due to finances or other commitments. I also like to see who is riding the horse. Is there a pro riding it? Is it the owner? Does it look like a lease situation? This can give you a bit of a picture as to what the horse needs to get through a show. Does the horse need to be prepped by a pro before it shows, or can a pre-childrens rider just get on and do reasonably well? Of course you will want to confirm with the seller, but the show record helps back up their story.

Another good thing to consider is the venues and number of entries. As you are aware, not all competition is the same.

It sounds like the horse you are trying is potentially a good match and that it has enough of a show record to give you an idea of what it has done.

Flash44
Nov. 9, 2011, 08:28 AM
You can't really boil it down to show record v. price. If you are just moving into the 3' division, you need a horse that will allow you to get comfortable jumping at that height, more than one that can win at that height.

I think show record is most important when you have $$$ to spend and are looking to compete at a higher level. And as a prior poster pointed out, inconsistencies in a show record are easily "explained" away, and may not paint an accurate picture of what the horse is (or is not) capable of doing.

If I was moving into the 3' division, I would consider purchasing a horse that consistently does really well at the local or B/C level, and is a great ride, especially since it is such a great buyers market, and I would look to spend as little $$ as possible. Once I was comfy riding at that level, maybe trade up to a flashier model. The buyers market will persevere for at least 5 more years.

PonyPenny
Nov. 9, 2011, 12:55 PM
Sometimes the rider makes the horse. Check Fabricio's show record, before Morgan Geller started riding him. He had a decent show record, but not stellar. Once Morgan started riding him, they became a fantastic team and his record represents that. With some horses it is the partnership between horse and rider that makes the show record.

findeight
Nov. 9, 2011, 01:16 PM
The horse is priced in the mid 5 figures. She has lots of good qualities...shown in the large juniors at A shows, but also in pre-childrens at 2 smaller shows. Even did low junior jumpers last year in Ocala over the winter. Nice horse, but not really good ribbons.... All I know is that I can get on, relax, and jump around a 3' course and I'm just moving up from 2'3 - 2'6 stuff! What do you think...too much $ for that? She's a nice mover but needs some training to go more like a hunter...

If she had Large Junior Hunter ribbons, preferably in classes with more entries then ribbons?? She should not need alot more training. I'd need a lot more info like where she was showing the Juniors and who the trainer was before I could give you any meaningful comments about price.

But offhand, a little on the high side for what she is doing lately if she is priced at 50k, probably reasonable at 25k or so, maybe 30k assuming she is high quality, attractive, sound, between 7 and about 11 and those Junior Hunter ribbons were legit at AAs. If not, she is way high at 50k and maybe at 25. The fact she went to the Jumpers and did the 2'6" local classes could be a clue...or not. It's bad market and somebody must have paid the bills, better then staying home doing nothing.

Important thing is you are comfortable on her doing what you are buying her to do...just remember that, unless the seller is brain dead, she is getting ridden alot and kept at her absolute best as a sale horse. Any interest in a trial? At that price, it is fairly common between trainers well known to each other to make sure of the match. 1 to 2 weeks.

Sometimes I think that if you like the horse, it proves suitable and you can (easily) afford it? No sense going on and on and on trying to find another perfect match that is 5k less or something.

But if it is not a forever horse and you know you will have to sell it to move up and you are on a budget? Whole nuther ball game. That is why price is really never as black and white as a Kelly Blue Book entry.

gottagrey
Nov. 9, 2011, 02:15 PM
The show record helps confirm a seller's marketing of the horse and might give you an idea of its performance potential. So if the horse has a record of getting ribbons in every class w/a pro but doesn't do so well w/ Jr or Ammy rider well that could be an issue - but not necessarily as it might depend on the age of the horse - if its an older horse - def a flag, younger horse maybe not so much. In looking at the show record you need to also look at the rider, and the # of entries sometimes a first place w/ 6 horses competing might not be as impressive as lower placings w/ greater # of competitors.

As far as price goes - with the market as it is it could be somewhat overpriced but then in my book I would pay more for a horse w/ a good solid sane brain than I would top ribbons -especially if the horse placed consistently..

Findeight gives some great advice too...

rugbygirl
Nov. 9, 2011, 02:21 PM
For the mid five figures, if they are advertising the horse as "shown" or "show-ready" to a certain height, then I expect to see a record of that height. Placings are not so important...unless they are all dead last. That raises a question, but doesn't take the horse out of the running (for me...but I've only really ever looked in the VERY low five figures ;) )

In my price range, a show record was really just a truth-telling litmus test. If they claim the horse is a "Hunter" then where has it shown, what divisions and what placings? If they don't have any of that, I most likely won't bother seeing the horse. They'd have to have convincing schooling videos to show a reasonable level of training.

After the whole "how broke is it really?" litmus test, then we're strictly down to how much I enjoy riding the horse. If we're a good match, that's step one to better placings...and the horse's record with the previous rider doesn't really matter any more (to me.)