PDA

View Full Version : Specs are out for $250,000 3' HITS prix qualifying classes..



alittlegray
Nov. 1, 2011, 11:17 PM
Looks ok to me -

Open to Juniors or Amateurs
No cross entry of rider into any "A" rated classes
No cross entry of rider into any classes 3'6" or higher
No cross entry of horse OR rider into 3'3" prix classes

So no junior hunter kids, no adult/adequan hunter riders, etc.

Sounds good so far, am I missing the obvious? It seems they are really trying to gear it toward your true 3' rider (children's hunters, etc)

Discuss..

MHM
Nov. 1, 2011, 11:31 PM
Well, shoot, I guess I'll have to wait a bit longer for the chance for my pre-green horse to bring home a whopping prize check! :lol:

Do you have a direct link to the specs?

alittlegray
Nov. 1, 2011, 11:36 PM
I know - I am really hoping for a $50,000 adult pleasure final - I will be there, lol!

The specs are just listed in the prize list for Ocala, so www.hitsshows.com and then click on the link for Ocala and download the prize list.

MHM
Nov. 1, 2011, 11:51 PM
Thanks- I'll have to take a look.

MHM
Nov. 2, 2011, 12:15 AM
Ok, I can't open the prize list on my phone, and I'm not near a computer.

Do the cross entry restrictions apply for the whole year? Or just for each show? In other words, is there anything to prevent a kid from showing in the junior hunters at 3'6" at some shows, then dropping down to the 3' to qualify and show in the big money class in September? Ditto for amateurs stepping down to adults for however many shows to qualify?

Rel6
Nov. 2, 2011, 12:28 AM
No ponies either. I wonder why? Are they worried a large pony hunter could come in and sweep it? But thats an AA rated division anyway...

dags
Nov. 2, 2011, 07:50 AM
No ponies either. I wonder why? Are they worried a large pony hunter could come in and sweep it? But thats an AA rated division anyway...

Good point, I'd love to see a quality Large in this! At least then you'd (potentially) be awarding something competing at the top of its game.

Oh yeah. That's not the point.

supershorty628
Nov. 2, 2011, 08:22 AM
No ponies either. I wonder why? Are they worried a large pony hunter could come in and sweep it? But thats an AA rated division anyway...

Could be concerns about the striding, although I can't imagine that being a problem for a division Large.

comingback
Nov. 2, 2011, 08:25 AM
Below is from the prizelist:

Two-round Classic. Fences 3’. Open to Junior and Amateur riders on Horses (no ponies). Horse must have entered, shown and completed the course in two hunter classes over fences at the same show. No cross entry of
rider into any "A" rated hunter section, or any class with fences 3’6” or higher. No cross entry of horse or rider in the Devoucoux Hunter Prix. Qualifying class for the $250,000 HITS 3' Hunter Prix Final.

It says to go to hitsshows.com for more information but the prizelist seems to be the only one with this much detail.

I dont know...think it will be effective in keeping the class to its intended participants?

Hauwse
Nov. 2, 2011, 08:32 AM
Good point, I'd love to see a quality Large in this! At least then you'd (potentially) be awarding something competing at the top of its game.

Oh yeah. That's not the point.

:)

fordtraktor
Nov. 2, 2011, 09:47 AM
Well, I must say we all complain endlessly about USEF not supporting the 3' adult ammy rider or offering any programs that make competing worthwhile. Good for HITS for aiming this program at that segment of its clientele and really offering them a reason to show with HITS. If USEF can't provide this value, at least someone else is trying to step up.

More like this is what we need, frankly, if we want 3' riders to keep the shows afloat. They are, like it or not, the bread and butter of the show's cash flow. It is smart business to do something like this and good for the industry.

No need to cut off our noses to spite our faces because they aren't Olympic riders. That's the point, isn't it? Give the adult ammy a reason to show up, so they continue to show up.

It is either this or cut costs, and shows keep insisting they can't cut costs so offering incentives is the only other viable option.

MHM
Nov. 2, 2011, 10:09 AM
Now that I've seen the specs, I guess all I have to say is:

It will be interesting to see who elects to show in the class throughout the year, and interesting to see who ends up with the ribbons and prize money in September.

Completely off topic tangent- there is a class in the Hits Ocala prize list called the U-Dump Jr. Jumper? And the U-Dump A/O Jumper? Really?? Very unfortunate sponsor name for a jumper class, even though it's always great to see sponsors. :lol:

Cannonball
Nov. 2, 2011, 10:28 AM
Below is from the prizelist:

Two-round Classic. Fences 3’. Open to Junior and Amateur riders on Horses (no ponies). Horse must have entered, shown and completed the course in two hunter classes over fences at the same show. No cross entry of
rider into any "A" rated hunter section, or any class with fences 3’6” or higher. No cross entry of horse or rider in the Devoucoux Hunter Prix. Qualifying class for the $250,000 HITS 3' Hunter Prix Final.

It says to go to hitsshows.com for more information but the prizelist seems to be the only one with this much detail.

I dont know...think it will be effective in keeping the class to its intended participants?

First I agree with the way the restrictions are worded, not that my opinion actually matters...

BUT, it does not restrict a horse showing in the "professional" divisions" by a pro from entering in this class with it's children hunter rider or A/O. I like this idea, it gives a chance to a child or A/O with a nice horse to qualify for something big.

shedllybip
Nov. 2, 2011, 10:51 AM
Well, shoot, I guess I'll have to wait a bit longer for the chance for my pre-green horse to bring home a whopping prize check! :lol:

Do you have a direct link to the specs?

I'll do your cute horse in the 3' hunter prix!!!!!!

meupatdoes
Nov. 2, 2011, 10:56 AM
Horse must have entered, shown and completed the course in two hunter classes over fences at the same show. No cross entry of
rider into any "A" rated hunter section, or any class with fences 3’6” or higher.

So the horse can qualify for this class going in the High Performance early in the week with the Pro, am I correct?

fordtraktor
Nov. 2, 2011, 10:58 AM
So the horse can qualify for this class going in the High Performance early in the week with the Pro, am I correct?

Looks that way to me.

meupatdoes
Nov. 2, 2011, 11:02 AM
Looks that way to me.

And as a corrollary, where does the prix fall in the schedule?

Is the prize list schedule set up so that the horse can qualify in the AAs/Childrens/low/schooling/specials (ie, with those classes running before the prix) as well?

I am guessing the pro classes go Weds-Thurs, the ammy classes go Thurs-Fri (le sigh), and where is the Prix?

Offset
Nov. 2, 2011, 11:20 AM
"Well, I must say we all complain endlessly about USEF not supporting the 3' adult ammy rider or offering any programs that make competing worthwhile. Good for HITS for aiming this program at that segment of its clientele and really offering them a reason to show with HITS."


All well and good but bear this is mine: a) this is presumably a significant moneymaker for HITS, entries, sponsors, etc., and b) HITS has six shows annually at Culpeper and, for many years now, has and continues to be the only Virginia show not to pay ANY money in the adult divisions.

fordtraktor
Nov. 2, 2011, 11:23 AM
Then perhaps you will decide it isn't worth it to show there.

What on earth is wrong with them making money? I doubt they will make an extra $250k off it, and if they do -- good for them. They need to make money. Ammies need to feel like they are getting something valuable, like FUN and a neat experience, for their $$. A win-win, if people like the concept and want to show at HITS because of it. Better than just another 3' division with $500 added, maybe.

alittlegray
Nov. 2, 2011, 11:43 AM
Here's what I like - this just opened the market a little for the 3' jock. That benefits me, because I happen to have one who lives right behind Culpeper showgrounds. But it will also benefit a lot of other 3' riders who would love the chance to take around something really nice as well. It will be harder to find talented riders who aren't piloting something around the A rated divisions already for someone, and it may help kids like mine who have a lot of potential but aren't riding in the 3'6" or division larges based on lack of funds from the parental units not lack of ability.

Meupatdoes, would that horse going in the high performance early in the week really aim for this class, or would they do the 3'3" prix that is open to pro riders? Makes more sense for a horse performing at that level to stick with the pro ride and do the other. Although I guess something super fancy could sweep this where it would have more competition in the 3'3" but then the value of the prize is cut in half.

MHM
Nov. 2, 2011, 12:26 PM
I'll do your cute horse in the 3' hunter prix!!!!!!

Thanks for the offer, and the compliment! I appreciate both. :)

Cannonball
Nov. 2, 2011, 12:30 PM
Then perhaps you will decide it isn't worth it to show there.

What on earth is wrong with them making money? I doubt they will make an extra $250k off it, and if they do -- good for them. They need to make money. Ammies need to feel like they are getting something valuable, like FUN and a neat experience, for their $$. A win-win, if people like the concept and want to show at HITS because of it. Better than just another 3' division with $500 added, maybe.

Good post!

Rye
Nov. 2, 2011, 01:52 PM
Hot damn, time to take the old-man out of semi-retirement get the back, hocks, fetlocks, and coffin bones all injected and get him earning some money.....(I am kidding).

Finally some money in the 3ft level....unfortunately to win the class, you'll need to spend $250K on the horse to win.

DMK
Nov. 2, 2011, 02:42 PM
Below is from the prizelist:

Two-round Classic. Fences 3’. Open to Junior and Amateur riders on Horses (no ponies). Horse must have entered, shown and completed the course in two hunter classes over fences at the same show. No cross entry of
rider into any "A" rated hunter section, or any class with fences 3’6” or higher. No cross entry of horse or rider in the Devoucoux Hunter Prix. Qualifying class for the $250,000 HITS 3' Hunter Prix Final.

It says to go to hitsshows.com for more information but the prizelist seems to be the only one with this much detail.

I dont know...think it will be effective in keeping the class to its intended participants?

Unless I am missing something, or there is some detail about time restrictions someplace else), generally when a prize list talks about "no cross entry" they mean at that show...

So if you interpret it that way, it means a 3'6 rider/horse combination could qualify at a show, then go back to showing in their jr/AO division all year long and come back down for the final.

I know Classic Company dealt with this issue on their 25K C/A jumper classic and further restricted it (at least at one point in time) to not showing higher than X in the 90 days prior to the classic. Maybe there is additional restrictions like that at the HITs website relating to the final and/or qualifying classes.

mem
Nov. 2, 2011, 03:03 PM
No restriction of what the horse can show in with another rider?
No restriction of number of horses a rider can show?
Bring on the shamateurs!

alittlegray
Nov. 2, 2011, 03:06 PM
DMK, if it is run like the 3'3" prix, you have to do at least 5 qualifying classes and still make the points cutoff. You may only ride one horse in the final as well.

dags
Nov. 2, 2011, 03:16 PM
Unless I am missing something, or there is some detail about time restrictions someplace else), generally when a prize list talks about "no cross entry" they mean at that show...

So if you interpret it that way, it means a 3'6 rider/horse combination could qualify at a show, then go back to showing in their jr/AO division all year long and come back down for the final.


This is what occurred to me also. Only thing that might prevent it is they lose eligibility to do the Ch/AAs if they do the Jr/AOs (right? It's been awhile). I suppose their 2 rounds at HITS could be in the Low Hunters.

But they'd miss out on a lot of Jr/AO points if they do them everywhere but HITS.

DMK
Nov. 2, 2011, 03:19 PM
@ alittlegrey - better, but it still sounds like a lot of options to show regularly in 3'6 and take a shot at big 3'0 money...

alittlegray
Nov. 2, 2011, 03:23 PM
Yeah, but the money is twice as high in the 3'3" prix with no cross-entry restrictions, so I still think that you're going to see 75% target audience with this 3' prix. Hope so.

amw
Nov. 2, 2011, 03:26 PM
Nice to have something somewhat catered to the 3' adults... Too bad the footing at Culpeper is still so horrible, we won't be going!

DMK
Nov. 2, 2011, 03:28 PM
For the true C/A riders, I hope so, but cynical person that I am, if I was a 3'6 J/A rider, I'd rather take my chances at 3'0 against non pros, than at 3'3 against pros with big money on the line!

alittlegray
Nov. 2, 2011, 03:37 PM
That's true, but you would still have to sacrifice at least five shows worth of Jr/AO points to do it and possibly more if the cutoff is running high. I would think a competitive Jr hunter rider isn't going to want to make that sacrifice. But again I could be reading it totally wrong and thus my 75% estimation, lol.

In a perfect world, this turns out to be an exposure opportunity for a group of talented riders that are stuck at 3' based on budget and not ability. For instance with mine, we will be at the shows and can travel to the final but I don't have $75-150k to lay down on a fancy children's hunter so she will ride whatever she picks up. Wouldn't it be cool if the top 10 or 15 at the end of this prix/final are relative unknowns with talent who see a boost from the exposure? Even if it doesn't happen for mine, I'd love to see that be the outcome from this for a good group of riders.

alittlegray
Nov. 2, 2011, 03:37 PM
Oh, and I love your siggy, btw!

MHM
Nov. 2, 2011, 03:51 PM
It's interesting to see the different opinions on how this is likely to play out. Clearly some of us are more jaded than others. :lol:

alittlegray
Nov. 2, 2011, 04:01 PM
Oh I'm sure! :lol: And I'm always shocked when things don't turn out to be roses and butterflies, too. I guess there is a distinct possibility that this will turn into one more BNR sweeping a big class, but I refuse to be less than somewhat hopefull. Hehe

meupatdoes
Nov. 2, 2011, 04:16 PM
For the true C/A riders, I hope so, but cynical person that I am, if I was a 3'6 J/A rider, I'd rather take my chances at 3'0 against non pros, than at 3'3 against pros with big money on the line!

Yep.

S A McKee
Nov. 2, 2011, 04:37 PM
That's true, but you would still have to sacrifice at least five shows worth of Jr/AO points to do it and possibly more if the cutoff is running high. I would think a competitive Jr hunter rider isn't going to want to make that sacrifice. But again I could be reading it totally wrong and thus my 75% estimation, lol.

.

Maybe not.
The restriction is at the rider level, not the horse.
To meet the HITS restriction all you need to do is have another Junior rider of the appropriate age group show the horse in Juniors.
Points go the horse for HOTY, makes no difference who the rider is as long as it's the right age.

Horse restrictions would be entirely at the Zone level and not all zones restrict cross entries. And the zone specs may be replaced by a National Spec anyway. Of course, each Zone could change their Horse Cross Entry restrictions to allow more entries in this class.

A/O is a little different but another another family member could show in A/O's and a 'sister' or 'brother' in the 3' Classic.
Again, Zone specs do apply for horse cross entries between Adult Amateur and A/O. Maybe a lot of close relatives will suddenly take up riding.

And just to be confusing. The 3' Classic isn't a USEF division ( such as Adult Ammies) so perhaps the Zone cross entry rules would not apply anyway.

dags
Nov. 2, 2011, 05:13 PM
Add to that, HOTY prizes are often so far out of reach not a whole lot of people go for them, and a check of this size is probably worth skipping those points.

If it's really supposed to be for the Ch/AA rider why not make it open only to those horse & rider combinations that compete in the Ch/AA division at that show?

chunky munky
Nov. 2, 2011, 06:03 PM
"Well, I must say we all complain endlessly about USEF not supporting the 3' adult ammy rider or offering any programs that make competing worthwhile. Good for HITS for aiming this program at that segment of its clientele and really offering them a reason to show with HITS."


All well and good but bear this is mine: a) this is presumably a significant moneymaker for HITS, entries, sponsors, etc., and b) HITS has six shows annually at Culpeper and, for many years now, has and continues to be the only Virginia show not to pay ANY money in the adult divisions.

Not true. I run and manage a AA rated show in VA. We have offered a $2500 classic, but we pay no prize money in the regular division. My bet is that Gary Baker doesn't either.

we offer great prizes, but no cash for a C rated division. Check your information regarding prize money.

S A McKee
Nov. 2, 2011, 06:26 PM
[QUOTE=Offset;5932930
All well and good but bear this is mine: a) this is presumably a significant moneymaker for HITS, entries, sponsors, etc., and b) HITS has six shows annually at Culpeper and, for many years now, has and continues to be the only Virginia show not to pay ANY money in the adult divisions.[/QUOTE]

Not a bg moneymaker for HITS unless the entire thing including finals and weekly prize money is totally sponsored.

I think if you showed much in VA you'd realize that your statement that HITS is the only show not to pay prize money in adults is nonsense.
For example, I'm pretty sure Warrenton doesn't pay prize money in adults. After all this is a C rated section no matter where it runs.
Many shows on the east coast do not have prize money in the adults and I can think of about 70 shows in NY that have no adult prize money.
Hampton Classic DOES have prize money but the entry fee for the division runs nearly as much as one of the Professional divisions and you'd need to win 2 classes to break even on entry fees.

workthattrot
Nov. 3, 2011, 12:17 AM
Um am i missing something ?
You realize children hunters is a "A" rated division as are adult Amateurs .. Correct me if i'm wrong.
Who the heck is gonna do this class!!???
And large ponies are a "A" rated division too
I'm confused :confused:, Nobody can do this class.

This post is not meant to be rude or offend anyone :D

comingback
Nov. 3, 2011, 07:14 AM
Um am i missing something ?
You realize children hunters is a "A" rated division as are adult Amateurs .. Correct me if i'm wrong.


While held at A shows I believe these are both C rated divisions.

dags
Nov. 3, 2011, 07:46 AM
Um am i missing something ?
You realize children hunters is a "A" rated division as are adult Amateurs .. Correct me if i'm wrong.
Who the heck is gonna do this class!!???
And large ponies are a "A" rated division too
I'm confused :confused:, Nobody can do this class.

This post is not meant to be rude or offend anyone :D

Incorrect. They are C rated divisions held at A rated shows. Large Ponies are A rated, and thus prohibited from entering.

S A McKee
Nov. 3, 2011, 08:44 AM
Um am i missing something ?
You realize children hunters is a "A" rated division as are adult Amateurs .. Correct me if i'm wrong.
Who the heck is gonna do this class!!???
And large ponies are a "A" rated division too
I'm confused :confused:, Nobody can do this class.

This post is not meant to be rude or offend anyone :D

As others noted these are C rated.

There is a proposal from USEF/USHJA to make both the Childrens Hunter and Adult Amateur Hunters National divisions in addition to Zone Awards but the proposal retains the C rating ( at least last time I checked the proposed change ).

But this change hasn't passed yet and it seems that the current C rating would continue anyway.

Shows can have a Hunter Show Rating of A or AA and offer C rated divisions.

Justice
Nov. 3, 2011, 09:30 AM
Keep in mind as well that not all 3'6" or 4' horses are brilliant over the 3". A horse that would win the International derby might not be the same horse that would win this one. Not all horses are as careful over the smaller jumps... some are, some aren't. Some of the pregreen horses may jump around like snot with their ammys or a good junior in the tack, only to buck on a landing or spook at a decoration. It will be fun to watch. I would bet the really nice children's and AA horses will take the day, just as they're meant to.

Huh. Too bad the real Justice has spent the last 7 years in short stirrup land. This would be a great way to build up the horse show fund ;)

DMK
Nov. 3, 2011, 09:42 AM
Maybe not.
The restriction is at the rider level, not the horse.
To meet the HITS restriction all you need to do is have another Junior rider of the appropriate age group show the horse in Juniors.
Points go the horse for HOTY, makes no difference who the rider is as long as it's the right age.

Bingo, and when you add in the catch riding aspect of the juniors... well color me cynical.

S A McKee
Nov. 3, 2011, 09:46 AM
Bingo, and when you add in the catch riding aspect of the juniors... well color me cynical.

Me too.
This class is not going to be what some exhibitors hope for.

Summit Springs Farm
Nov. 3, 2011, 10:12 AM
Well, we will be showing in the hunter prixs this year, God willing etc..

We have a horse that will be ready for first years to do the 3'3" prix and I guess I'll have to get off of the golf cart and get on our pregreen 3' horse to do the 3' prix;)! He's super easy! Doesn't look at anything!

I'm excited to do the classes,whether we win or not, it will be fun.

Its great to have a big money class to participate in, no matter who trys get around the rules.

S A McKee
Nov. 3, 2011, 10:30 AM
Its great to have a big money class to participate in, no matter who trys get around the rules.

Nobody is trying to get around the rules.
They were written the way they are for a reason. To allow as many horses as possible to compete while preventing the Pros from riding in this class BUT allowing horses shown as Junior Hunters, A/o Hunters or ridden by Pros in other divisions to compete with a choice of Shamateur or Childrens Hunter/Junior Hunter 'catch rider' .
It's really that simple.

I think it's a great idea. Some of the Adult and Childrens Hunters are very spectacular and will do well in this class ( with Pro tune up in another division LOL)

DMK
Nov. 3, 2011, 11:09 AM
Exactly, the rules permit it, how is that getting around them?

And there are plenty of A/A riders who clean everyone's clock (and some who attract a crowd for all the wrong reasons :lol: ), just don't be thinking this is some sort of restricted to die-hard-3'0-riders-with-a-day-job kind of class because it really doesn't seem to be the case. Nothing wrong with that, the only thing wrong would not being able to grasp the concept...

Summit Springs Farm
Nov. 5, 2011, 09:16 AM
Below is from the prizelist:

Two-round Classic. Fences 3’. Open to Junior and Amateur riders on Horses (no ponies). Horse must have entered, shown and completed the course in two hunter classes over fences at the same show. No cross entry of
rider into any "A" rated hunter section, or any class with fences 3’6” or higher. No cross entry of horse or rider in the Devoucoux Hunter Prix. Qualifying class for the $250,000 HITS 3' Hunter Prix Final.

It says to go to hitsshows.com for more information but the prizelist seems to be the only one with this much detail.

I dont know...think it will be effective in keeping the class to its intended participants?

Since they are not allowing cross entry, it looks like it will be a whole new group of "prix" horses and riders added to the current group of 3'3" ers, only these at 3'. So it should be lots of childrens and adults horses, maybe a few pregreen with their owners.

S A McKee
Nov. 5, 2011, 09:38 AM
Since they are not allowing cross entry, it looks like it will be a whole new group of "prix" horses and riders added to the current group of 3'3" ers, only these at 3'. So it should be lots of childrens and adults horses, maybe a few pregreen with their owners.

Once again, cross entry restriction is at the RIDER level, not the horse.
Horse can do Green Hunter, High Performance Hunter etc during the week with it's pro rider and do the 3' class on the weekend with Adult or Children eligible rider.
Or it can do Jr Hunter A/O hunter with one rider and do the 3' class with an Adult or Children eligible rider.

The horse doesn't even need to be showing in the Childrens Hunter or Adult Amateur Hunter divisions at the show where it does the 3' class.

Yes, there will be childrens and adult hunters in this class but they won't be the only ones. LOL

Summit Springs Farm
Nov. 5, 2011, 09:55 AM
Once again, cross entry restriction is at the RIDER level, not the horse.
Horse can do Green Hunter, High Performance Hunter etc during the week with it's pro rider and do the 3' class on the weekend with Adult or Children eligible rider.
Or it can do Jr Hunter A/O hunter with one rider and do the 3' class with an Adult or Children eligible rider.

The horse doesn't even need to be showing in the Childrens Hunter or Adult Amateur Hunter divisions at the show where it does the 3' class.

Yes, there will be childrens and adult hunters in this class but they won't be the only ones. LOL

Yes I realize this, maybe I'll ride my first year horse and my pregreen in the 3', but more than likey I'll have a pro my first year horse in the 3'3" and me ride my pregreen in the 3'.
Many 3'6" horses don't do as well over 3', so they may do the 3'3" rather than the 3'. But who knows,people tend to surprise me all the time.

alittlegray
Nov. 7, 2011, 12:52 AM
i will just have to go down as the eternal optimist hoping it does create a need for some good 3' catchriders, and that the prize goes to a real child/adult rider.

City Ponies
Nov. 7, 2011, 08:09 AM
Does anyone other than me see a great opportunity for the hony hunters going and doing well??

If a talented and fancy Large could do this, I think this might be the venue for those 15.1 super fancies that are subjected to the schoolings or Childrens. I am just thinking that the step of a smaller horse might be more condusive to this height than the 16.2 plus Childrens hunter who may have a more difficult time negotiating a Derby/Prix course, a truly more amateur rider, and make the lines. Just sayin...

I have a great little barely 15.2 mare in the barn who would be fabulous at this but her Ammy owner is only negotiating crossrails now. And I am out of the saddle for 6the months so no one to school her higher in the meantime :(