PDA

View Full Version : how not to hire an employee



holaamigoalter
Oct. 31, 2011, 10:21 AM
I laughed out loud reading this one. I believe I've seen this person(or someone else with the same list of "demands") post a few times. Guess their search isn't turning out too great.

Shame on them for thinking they can control a person's life outside of work (and pay them a pathetic salary of 300 a week)...never met anyone THAT desperate.

http://www.yardandgroom.com/jobs/united-states/virginia/barn-manager-instructor/21334

Trixie
Oct. 31, 2011, 10:27 AM
BUT YOU GET TO WORK WITH HORSES!!!!1111!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BEARCAT
Oct. 31, 2011, 10:30 AM
Better to know in advance what you are getting into I suppose.
I take it they aren't getting a lot of applicants...

myalter1
Oct. 31, 2011, 10:30 AM
i was getting that much in 1994 as a groom. LOL Sorry you couldn't pay me ENOUGH to work for that person. Sounds miserable

meupatdoes
Oct. 31, 2011, 10:34 AM
BUT YOU GET TO WORK WITH HORSES!!!!1111!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



A++
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

mildot
Oct. 31, 2011, 10:50 AM
Four and a half bucks an hour!

Where do I sign up?

meupatdoes
Oct. 31, 2011, 10:55 AM
Four and a half bucks an hour!

Where do I sign up?

Obviously you don't get it that horses are a not-having-a-life style.

For shame.

AmmyByNature
Oct. 31, 2011, 11:02 AM
You get the benefit of being able to live on this gorgeous, historic farm that I toiled my whole life to purchase. After that, I will pay for medical insurance if you are worth your salt & bonuses for each time you actually pull off all of the greatness that you have claimed you possess. This job will be based SOLEY on performance. This is not Wal-mart and is definately not a union job. Horses are a lifestyle and not a job, so if you don't get it - don't reply.

Really?? Where do I sign up?

Tamara in TN
Oct. 31, 2011, 11:06 AM
I think it's a troll ad.

Tamara



I laughed out loud reading this one. I believe I've seen this person(or someone else with the same list of "demands") post a few times. Guess their search isn't turning out too great.

Shame on them for thinking they can control a person's life outside of work (and pay them a pathetic salary of 300 a week)...never met anyone THAT desperate.

http://www.yardandgroom.com/jobs/united-states/virginia/barn-manager-instructor/21334

AmmyByNature
Oct. 31, 2011, 11:07 AM
I think it's a troll ad.

Tamara

I hope so...

dags
Oct. 31, 2011, 11:10 AM
Well, it's $300/wk plus room and board for one horse. In my neck of the woods that's probably about $2400/mth. It's not really conducive to long-term employment if you require live-in while simultaneously eliminating the ability to have a relationship, but I've seen far worse propositions.

Trixie
Oct. 31, 2011, 11:11 AM
There's another farm in VA that's offering $250!!!!111!!! a week plus a one bedroom apartment. That one doesn't call itself a "working student" position and it doesn't offer board.

But! If you want to be a working student, there are multiple offers for people to work for FREE! or a generous $50!!! a week! Must have own health insurance! You can sleep on our pull out sofa! Better yet!!! YOU CAN SLEEP IN IN OUR TACK ROOM!!!!

Oh, and you'll be signing a non-disclosure agreement.

Another wants you to work "part time" for $166 a week, 6 days a week. That's a barn worker, non live in, non-working student.

And another? A young horse handler/groom for $300 a week, housing included but you are expected to pay utilities. Also no riding.

FWIW, none of these are BNRs whatsoever.

And yet I am somehow the one that is destroying people's dreams by suggesting employment outside of this industry.

RougeEmpire
Oct. 31, 2011, 11:29 AM
Its really sad how little Barn Managers are getting paid these days. Ive turned down EVERY BM job Ive been offered in the last 6 years because 1)OMG the payrate is a JOKE and 2) In my book BMs dont muck stalls!

Having managed barns on the West Coast and the South I laugh when I see a "Barn Manager" job in New England, just WOW horrible payrates and no actual MANAGMENT involved. Its all mucking stalls, feeding and turnout! Thats NOT a barn manager, its a groom/stable hand! When I managed barns I ran the books, managed payroll, schedualing, appointments, ordered feed/bedding, worked with trainers/farriers/stablehands/boarders, drug the ring ect ect ect. I NEVER picked up a pitch fork. I also got paid a heck of a lot more than the "barn managers" around here, lols.

People whine, b*^%% and complain about not being able to find a good Barn Manager but sheesh look at what most stables are offering for pay! The really sad part is how many kids with degrees from a "Horsie College" take a horribly low paying BM job that doesnt even cover thier basic cost of living.

OveroHunter
Oct. 31, 2011, 11:35 AM
Condescending much? Geez, our dude ranch pays better than that! AND WE WORK WIF HORSIES TOO!!!!!!!!111!!!

supaflyskye
Oct. 31, 2011, 11:39 AM
sounds like a very difficult person to work w/ ...
but honestly, $300/week + board + housing & food, that probably works out to a value of at least $2500-$3000/month, around here anyway. I'd consider trying my best to get along w/ them for as long as I could.
Maybe it's just because I'm a broke college student, but that doesn't seem too horrendous to me.

MHM
Oct. 31, 2011, 11:53 AM
sounds like a very difficult person to work w/ ...
but honestly, $300/week + board + housing & food, that probably works out to a value of at least $2500-$3000/month, around here anyway.

I agree that the compensation package adds up to more than just $300/week.

However, from the rest of the ad, it sounds like the money might be the least of the problems in that situation. Yikes.

But did anyone else have a flashback to the great commercial about the dressage horse on the race track? :lol:

yellowbritches
Oct. 31, 2011, 12:06 PM
I kinda get it.

The living arrangements are not conducive to sharing with an SO or child (nor would they be acceptable to me...I would not want to have to share any of my living environment with my employer). But I bet the employer has had a few applicants or employees with free loading SOs who want to live with (off of) their girlfriend. It would be a no go in that situation.

Otherwise, they are making it clear that the job isn't for the faint of heart. Do your job, and you get rewarded. Whine or slack off, not so much. What's wrong with that?

The package isn't bad. It is less than I make, but still a manageable wage, especially for someone who doesn't have a big desire to compete (a lot of my cash gets eaten up in entries). Housing, board and at least some food? It basically covers everything except clothes and car expenses...and those would be low, considering you wouldn't drive to work (well, and horse expenses beyond board). I wouldn't live in that arrangement, but others would.

smokygirl
Oct. 31, 2011, 12:09 PM
No boyfriends though.. that's a bit drastic. Only guests whom are related? So my BFF since Kindergarten can't stay, but My 3rd cousin I've met once can?

Trixie
Oct. 31, 2011, 12:12 PM
Do you people seriously not take issue with your employer dictating your personal life and political views?

"NO boyfriend, conservative?"

magnolia73
Oct. 31, 2011, 12:14 PM
Honestly- I think the guy just needs a wife- you only get food if you can cook it.

elaw
Oct. 31, 2011, 12:17 PM
Well sign me up! Can you imagine a more pleasant person to work for/live with??? Oh, sorry, live in the "maid's quarters."

I agree with BEARCAT, at least you know what you're getting. And they clearly have high standards for their workers, which I really can't criticize.

Although I think that requiring your employee to be single and celibate might be crossing the line...

MHM
Oct. 31, 2011, 12:18 PM
Do you people seriously not take issue with your employer dictating your personal life and political views?

"NO boyfriend, conservative?"

Yes, that line just begs for a pithy comment.

I wonder if the person has really thought out the implications on that requirement. :lol:

RunningwaterWBs
Oct. 31, 2011, 12:21 PM
I think this is my favorite line: "Must be able to back/ride a colt in one day in a round pen."

Maybe nuns are more versatile than I thought.

englishcowgirl
Oct. 31, 2011, 12:21 PM
Do you people seriously not take issue with your employer dictating your personal life and political views?

"NO boyfriend, conservative?"

Apparantly you can have a girlfriend though!!!!! :D:lol::yes:

Really though I am pretty sure they can get sued for a discrimatory ad like that. I mean you cannot even post for a roomate on Craigslist like that without getting in trouble.

DancingQueen
Oct. 31, 2011, 12:23 PM
I actually don't think it looks all that bad. She will get free board for a horse, room and board for herself $300 plus comissions on lessons and sales. It all depends on how many lessons of course but at my old job i would often make close to $1000 in lesson comissions only.

Some of the advert makes it sound like they had problems with things before such as overight guests, drugs etc.
I don't see that they will not allow a boyfriend only that he is not allowed to spend the night. I for one don't find it unreasonable to request no overnight guests when you let people stay in your house. I personally would not want to bring somebody home with me unless I had privacy but that's a different story.

As far as conservative goes, I might have misunderstood but I read it to be more of a personality trait request then a political viewpoint issue.

smokygirl
Oct. 31, 2011, 12:28 PM
Apparantly you can have a girlfriend though!!!!! :D:lol::yes:

Really though I am pretty sure they can get sued for a discrimatory ad like that. I mean you cannot even post for a roomate on Craigslist like that without getting in trouble.


Given that they mention conservative.. it's a good bet that girl friend would be a no go. As well as no non-relatives visiting.

2ndyrgal
Oct. 31, 2011, 12:29 PM
When I was in my 20's I possessed all those skills and worked at the track. I'd have killed for that job, and really, it sounds like an honests ad. I'd rather know up front, and she didn't say you couldn't have a life, just not in her house.

Sounds fair to me. $300/week, free room and food, free board for a horse, and a chance to live somewhere that the person could never afford.

I bet she fills it.

There are days when that sounds really really good.....

Go Fish
Oct. 31, 2011, 12:31 PM
Let's see...

This is in Virginia...not a cheap place to live.
You get your own board, including food and utilities.
You get board for your horse.
You get $300 a week.
It's not clear when, but it looks like you get medical at some point.
Commission and bonus is being offered.

In my neck of the woods, that compensation would amount to at least $3000 a month, not figuring in the commission and bonus. Is that considered a "bad" deal? It looks like a working student position? If that's the case, it's a better compensation package than most working students get around here, which is usually board for both horse and rider, and that's it.

Depending on the details not shared in the ad, this could be a jump-at-it chance for a young professional to get a foot in the door and get themselves established.

dags
Oct. 31, 2011, 12:34 PM
"Maids Quarters" are what those rooms over the kitchen are called. She put it in quotes in the ad to signify just that. Or at least she tried, but read into it however you want.

The kitchen is shared space. Quite reasonable that she wouldn't want to share it with a boxer clad boyfriend over coffee in the morning, but she will open it up to out of town guests.

I've had roommates threaten a no boyfriend policy! :D

This is really not that unreasonable . . . and it's not like jobs that can support a horse habit are just falling off of trees out there.

mroades
Oct. 31, 2011, 12:37 PM
I actually thought it was kind of refreshing that they put all that stuff in the ad up front.
But since I don't cook, and I dont break babies, I guess I am out...lol

mildot
Oct. 31, 2011, 12:45 PM
Really though I am pretty sure they can get sued for a discrimatory ad like that. I mean you cannot even post for a roomate on Craigslist like that without getting in trouble.

Political affiliation is not a protected category. You can be discharged from at-will employment if your employer does not agree with your political leanings and/or voting record.

And since housing is not being sold or rented, I seriously doubt the Fair Housing Act applies.

You would be amazed at the many things you can be legally discriminated against for.

rustbreeches
Oct. 31, 2011, 12:51 PM
I think you can have a BF, he just can't spend the night. I honestlythink she won't have that hard a time filling this spot, dreadful as it sounds. There are lots of people doing desperate things to hang on to their horses right now.

I am dying to know who it is in VA!!

Carol Ames
Oct. 31, 2011, 12:55 PM
There was a time
i would have worked for that:o Actually, the last two jobs were for /"A show stables" and paid even
less:mad:

jeta
Oct. 31, 2011, 12:56 PM
"I will pay for medical insurance if you are worth your salt & bonuses for each time you actually pull off all of the greatness that you have claimed you possess. This job will be based SOLEY on performance. "

In this day and age, having your medical insurance paid for is nothing to sneeze at......When my oldest finished college, my biggest worry was having him find a full time position in his field WITH insurance.....

"Commissions and bonuses will be paid for selling horses, giving lessons, leases, and general hard work, dedication and improvement."

So while the base pay doesn't seem great, depending upon what financial arrangement is made with the employer, if you are a go-getter, they are giving you an opportunity to build and run a lesson program, benefit from the sale of a horse, etc.....

I think the ad is written somewhat tongue and cheek to scare off the wannabes.....

I don't really think they are interested in dictating your entire life....They are sharing their home with you with some common space....I venture to guess they just don't want to deal with a flow of random people or the loser SO living with them.....

Perhaps, they will negotiate certain terms for the right person.....

I know there are controlling whackadoos out there, but the only way to know what these people's intentions are, would be to talk to them....

see u at x
Oct. 31, 2011, 01:02 PM
I think you can have a BF, he just can't spend the night. I honestlythink she won't have that hard a time filling this spot, dreadful as it sounds. There are lots of people doing desperate things to hang on to their horses right now.

I am dying to know who it is in VA!!

Based upon the amenities and description, it looks like it could be this place, perhaps?

http://www.elmington.com/

Seriously, if I would have found this job about 10-12 years ago after my parents had both died and I was at a loss of what to do with my life and where to go, I probably would have jumped on this opportunity. Provided I had the experience, of course. Looks like a nice place, and sounds like the owners have quite the sense of humor.

OveroHunter
Oct. 31, 2011, 01:03 PM
I think this is my favorite line: "Must be able to back/ride a colt in one day in a round pen."

Maybe nuns are more versatile than I thought.

:lol::lol::lol:

RumoursFollow
Oct. 31, 2011, 01:13 PM
I took the conservative remark to be more of a "no skanks allowed" type statement than a political remark. If you're going to work for me, I really don't care what your political affiliation is, but I don't want you showing up in your tube top and booty shorts to clean stalls and then "working the corner" of the property at night. If you're in a small town (or travelling to horse shows) and you act like a ho, it can be a reflection of my facility since I thought it was appropriate to hire you.

Maybe that's not what the ad meant, but stated in the same place as the boyfriend and judging by the tone of the rest of the ad, I took it to have no reference to politics. Of course I could be wrong..

Additionally, I'm in the same boat with those who said they would have thought it sounded great at some point.. When I graduated from college I would have thought that sounded great. (granted that was a decent amount of years ago)

I am not sure that was the smartest way to go about advertising, but it sure is getting attention.. Lol.

Mara
Oct. 31, 2011, 01:17 PM
Based upon the amenities and description, it looks like it could be this place, perhaps?

http://www.elmington.com/

Seriously, if I would have found this job about 10-12 years ago after my parents had both died and I was at a loss of what to do with my life and where to go, I probably would have jumped on this opportunity. Provided I had the experience, of course. Looks like a nice place, and sounds like the owners have quite the sense of humor.

Except the ad clearly states they discourage "showing for points". The website indicates that the owners publish "The Horse Show Times". Click on the "Shows" tab and they have a points tally.

But yeah, facility description is a match.

alittlegray
Oct. 31, 2011, 01:19 PM
Add me to the list of "don't think it's unreasonable" people.

Room, Board, Food, Medical, Salary, Comissions, etc? That's a lot. Plus you are sharing someone's private home so I can understand why they might say no 'overnight' visitors that aren't family. They may have young children at home, you never know. I also wouldn't want to be constantly battling someone's opposing political views in my own home after work or what have you. I would be willing to bet that this is the most minor of their points, however, and if the perfect candidate came along and just happened to be a liberal it might be ok.

It's easy to say "well, we aren't going to be sitting around discussing our political leanings all the time so it shouldn't be an issue." But the reality is that it does pervade your life and come up day to day in the most unrelated conversations. I can see them not wanting to be always feeling like they have to be on guard in their own home. My mother and I couldn't even coexist as adults without the weekly exasperating conversation around politics (we are on opposite sides) and you'd be surprised the things that would generate that kind of conversation.

Ibex
Oct. 31, 2011, 01:48 PM
Agreed. I don't think they'd be EASY to work for, but I read it as "no skanks, idiots, druggies or crazy people allowed"... and "you have to actually be able to do what you say you can do" :lol:

And the "Maids Quarters" to me just says "you have your own space" - it even specifies two rooms.

alteringwego
Oct. 31, 2011, 02:00 PM
this sounds a lot like my old job except that the things this person says were just 'understood' by my employers. at least they're honest.

Mukluk
Oct. 31, 2011, 02:07 PM
I suppose it could be perfect for someone. But definitely not me, I would never be able to have someone tell me how to live my private life!

trubandloki
Oct. 31, 2011, 02:08 PM
It certainly does not sound like half bad pay really. $300 plus full room and board plus board for a horse and health care.

yellowbritches
Oct. 31, 2011, 02:16 PM
I really think the "no boyfriend" thing means no live in/cohabitating boyfriend. And I totally get that in this situation. I also think it is perfectly reasonable to say no overnight guests...my old room mate and I (who is one of my dearest friends) had a "no guys allowed that you have known less for 36 hours"...she came up with it for good reason (slutty ex room mate!), but it made sense to me!

I didn't see the conservative bit, but it could mean any number of things; from bible thumping birther to watch your mouth and don't dress like a tramp!

AmmyByNature
Oct. 31, 2011, 02:25 PM
I will pay for medical insurance if you are worth your salt

Doesn't really sound like a guarantee to me. Sounds like something a capricious employer will give you and take away on a whim.

Trixie
Oct. 31, 2011, 02:39 PM
It actually does specify that the position is ideal for someone with NO boyfriend. It also then specifies that horses are a lifestyle and not a job, which is something that I've heard very frequently as an excuse not to treat one's employees as a) employees or b) humans.


Idealy suited for: non smoking, middle-aged female, no pets, NO boyfriend, no drugs, no kids in tow, conservative, w/ great sense of humor required.

Around here, I assume that "conservative" means politically since the barn is in the general DC area. If you want someone who isn't a skank, I might try the term "professional."

I just don't know a lot of "middle aged females" who would stay in a situation where their life is dictated for them on that level. Maybe the economy really IS that bad.

And it is quite clear that health insurance, commissions, or bonuses are discretionary, not guaranteed.

That being said, some of the other ads I saw offered worse accomodations and salaries.

WendellsGirl
Oct. 31, 2011, 02:44 PM
I suppose you're supposed to be 'prooving' yourself, ala breaking colts to saddle in a day, during this pre-health insurance period also....
I think it reads like a typical scenario, but that doesn't mean its right. They're just banking on finding someone desperate enough that the red flags won't seem quite so red.

MHM
Oct. 31, 2011, 02:48 PM
I suppose you're supposed to be 'prooving' yourself, ala breaking colts to saddle in a day, during this pre-health insurance period also....

Good point!

So after the (middle aged female?!?) person gets hurt trying to break the colt in a day, she's told she is not qualified for the job, and she can take her broken bones and get out.

magnolia73
Oct. 31, 2011, 02:50 PM
Bottom line, it does not sound like the EMPLOYER is professional. All that ad says to me is that they are probably very dramatic and in your business.

I don't think it is easy to hire help that lives in your house too. It's a two way street- they need to be able to live with you as well. In fact, if I had wealth, I'd rather just pay someone a wage that allows them to rent and commute vs. have them live with me. I reckon most people would rather commute as well... or even live in a trailer home.

People never seem to understand why they have trouble find working students when the "generously" offer use of their home.... well, I like my boss, but god damn, I'd slit my wrists if I had to see her every day at breakfast and dinner as well.

rustbreeches
Oct. 31, 2011, 02:52 PM
If it is Elmington, my dad did the remodel/renovation on the house and barn years ago. The barn was a sheep barn and my dad had a dickens of a time reconfiguring the stalls to make them horse friendly. Weird.


And I still think they don't want a live in BF, since they also mention children, which I take to mean dependent children. Sounds like the ad may have been written in haste after a less than stellar employee left them high and dry.

jen-s
Oct. 31, 2011, 02:57 PM
I actually thought it was kind of refreshing that they put all that stuff in the ad up front.
But since I don't cook, and I dont break babies, I guess I am out...lol

If I broke babies (hell, I'd break my own first of all!), I'd be all over that. I'm not the greatest cook nor am I politically conservative, but I bet I could talk my way around that. Sigh. Frankly, $1200/month in disposable income, sounds heavenly.

jen-s
Oct. 31, 2011, 02:58 PM
well, I like my boss, but god damn, I'd slit my wrists if I had to see her every day at breakfast and dinner as well.

You know, that's really true. Hadn't thought of that. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Trixie
Oct. 31, 2011, 03:24 PM
People never seem to understand why they have trouble find working students when the "generously" offer use of their home.... well, I like my boss, but god damn, I'd slit my wrists if I had to see her every day at breakfast and dinner as well.

Exactly this.

I had a friend that was a working student who was promised a decent and private accomodation when she moved several states away for a position. Unfortunately, she wound up staying in the boss's spare room for months and it wound up being a factor in her decision to leave that job. It was very uncomfortable to have no privacy from her employer.


Out of curiousity, how would you be taxed on this?

VR00M
Oct. 31, 2011, 04:19 PM
So theyre looking for a horse riding, training, cooking recluse that will slave over their farm for 3 rooms and 300$/week. WOW! what an offer! :P

meupatdoes
Oct. 31, 2011, 04:23 PM
Out of curiousity, how would you be taxed on this?

Well for starters 100% on your sanity...

mackandblues
Oct. 31, 2011, 04:33 PM
Apparantly you can have a girlfriend though!!!!! :D:lol::yes:

Really though I am pretty sure they can get sued for a discrimatory ad like that. I mean you cannot even post for a roomate on Craigslist like that without getting in trouble.

very discriminating - obiously not an equal opportunities employer.

some woman should email them with great credentials but with a smoking hot girlfriend, oh and a trained restaruant chef :D

Go Fish
Oct. 31, 2011, 04:49 PM
So theyre looking for a horse riding, training, cooking recluse that will slave over their farm for 3 rooms and 300$/week. WOW! what an offer! :P

Re-read the ad. Horse board is included, as is groceries, all utilities, bonus and commission. Health insurance is also offered after what looks to be a period of employment, which is not unusual nowadays. Many employeers only offer health benefits after say, 90 days. While I haven't seen any contract, on the surface, it's not a bad deal. I've seen a lot of young professionals starting out having it FAR worse.

I don't know where you live, but in my neck of the woods, good boarding facilities start at $850 and go up from there. Rents (without food and utilities) start in the neighborhood of $1200 and up.

Essentially, the $300 a week is spending money. All your other needs are met.

BeeHoney
Oct. 31, 2011, 04:55 PM
Add me to the list that thinks that the compensation sounds normal. I'm guessing it works out in the $2400/mo range, plus the benefit of having health insurance. They don't say what the hours are, or if there is any paid vacation, but lets say that the person works 50 hours per week, that's $12/hr. What are y'all paying your farm help? I don't know too many farm workers that make much more than that, and many do not have health insurance.

Having the housing included in the deal may be a negative in terms of privacy, but remember that on site housing is a TAX FREE benefit. If the worker was paying rent out of her own pocket, she or he would have to pay taxes on those dollars first. There is no tax on the value of the housing that the employer is providing. So that is an extra $ bonus to the employee.

The no boyfriend thing is tough. I have on site housing for a couple of employees and significant others are a constant issue. I really don't care what my employees do in their private time, but I've had several situations where really wonderful employees have really scummy SO's--which is totally none of my business except that if said SO ends up living and hanging out on my property. I don't want to worry about people getting drunk and doing crazy things or doing/selling drugs on my property. I don't want people who look like they are either homeless or a hooker hanging out where they are visible to me or to clients. And I don't want ANYONE who doesn't have business to do so wandering around my farm "petting the cute horses" or hanging out in the barn.

Giddy-up
Oct. 31, 2011, 05:02 PM
I don't know. I don't see a lot of room to make money here beyond what you get paid weekly. :confused:

$300 a week plus board (if I have a horse) & housing (with their rules) & food if I can cook it doesn't sound like a great deal to me.

There are 28 stalls to be cleaned & thoses horses to be cared for (although they never really say how many horses are on site?). Riding as needed for re-training or sale horses. So it doesn't sound like a lot of chance to make sales commission if it's only "as needed". And when you do get a chance to "train", you need to have it all done in 1 day.

The lesson program--still needs to be developed which means it may not even exist. How can you make commission teaching lessons to nobody? Is the barn going to pay for advertising & getting new clients?

And at what point does the boss decide I am not an idiot & give me medical insurance? 60 days or 6 months?

I am sure they will find somebody, but for me there are too many loose ends that depend on "what if's". I like my employment more black & white I guess.

Eireamon
Oct. 31, 2011, 05:32 PM
I would expect that the barn has had a 'bad' experience. Having been in the same situation with drug takers/loser boyfriends and less than honest people I have put a clause at the bottom of my ads.


Workers are expected to be self motivated and show initiative. We are a working farm and its not possible to be able to supervise workers at all times. You must have a sense of pride in your work and a happy disposition. Sulky,sullen,lazy or Bad attitudes are not welcome. The experience has to be a good one for us just
as much as it is for you.

I have no doubt my bluntness has put off some applicants but after a run of bad experiences the number of bad experiences has lessened considerably. I have not had any drug takers or loser boyfriends since. People that are straight up are not likely to be offended by such wording.

Beam Me Up
Oct. 31, 2011, 05:35 PM
The tone kind of rubs me the wrong way too. I would rather work for someone professional enough to phrase some of the personal demands better (maybe, "housing for single occupant only, no overnight guests") and a lot of the snarky remarks make the boss sound challenging:
"if you are worth your salt & bonuses for each time you actually pull off all of the greatness that you have claimed you possess"
"This is not Wal-mart and is definately not a union job. Horses are a lifestyle and not a job, so if you don't get it - don't reply"
" Must be able to read, write, speak fluent english, and form complete sentences without using "like"."

I don't think I would share that boss' all important sense of humor.

But more importantly, the job itself sounds a bit frenetic, unless I'm missing something. Dressage, equitation, western, riding outside the ring, breaking babies, training racehorses, schooling green horses, building a lesson program, feeding, farm improvement, making hay (?), cooking dinner . . .

That's a tall order for one person, with a possibly unreasonable employer.



As an aside, equal housing doesn't apply to people living with you. On Craigslist you can absolutely ask for a female/Kosher/Hindu/celibate/whatever roommate.

meupatdoes
Oct. 31, 2011, 06:01 PM
The lesson program--still needs to be developed which means it may not even exist. How can you make commission teaching lessons to nobody? Is the barn going to pay for advertising & getting new clients?

Ahahaha, in my experience, "it is the trainer's responsibility to find and develop new clients."

It is also the trainer's responsibility to sign a non-compete so they can't take they clients THEY brought into the barn with them when they leave.

The trainer must also pay 100% for their own insurance, as well as pay half of their training revenue to the person who "is paying for the facility," (despite the fact that that person also charges board to pay for the facility), because apparently farms cost money but learning how to ride and train for a couple decades is free.

One wonders if all that knowledge is so easy and inexpensive to get and people are just "waltzing in" with their training and teaching skills why the BO's don't just swing their leg over the colts (in one day) themselves.

LochNessD
Oct. 31, 2011, 06:30 PM
I actually don't think this is unreasonable, especially if it includes insurance.

But, as an aside, I checked out the website. If it is indeed the same farm, the horses are REALLY overpriced for this market. They are ironically described as "priced to sell quickly," so a) I doubt the owners are interested in realistic pricing, and consequently b) I doubt a trainer is going to be moving many horses/collecting commissions. So, I wouldn't count that into projected income.

poltroon
Oct. 31, 2011, 06:51 PM
I would have serious concerns that this is a 7 day a week job.

RougeEmpire
Oct. 31, 2011, 06:51 PM
Based upon the amenities and description, it looks like it could be this place, perhaps?

http://www.elmington.com/

Seriously, if I would have found this job about 10-12 years ago after my parents had both died and I was at a loss of what to do with my life and where to go, I probably would have jumped on this opportunity. Provided I had the experience, of course. Looks like a nice place, and sounds like the owners have quite the sense of humor.


I hope not. The riding on the "sales" page looks down right scary, holy heck just about every horse looks like it's about to be in a total wreck over the rails and the equitation is terrible.
http://www.elmington.com/Sales.htm

RougeEmpire
Oct. 31, 2011, 06:54 PM
I actually don't think this is unreasonable, especially if it includes insurance.

But, as an aside, I checked out the website. If it is indeed the same farm, the horses are REALLY overpriced for this market. They are ironically described as "priced to sell quickly," so a) I doubt the owners are interested in realistic pricing, and consequently b) I doubt a trainer is going to be moving many horses/collecting commissions. So, I wouldn't count that into projected income.

Did you check out Doris (Fast Booty) on the sales page? I just about fell over when I saw the photos and discription of a 15.1, 2'6" pinto hunter with a scary dangerous form over the jump and then saw 20K price tag!

danceronice
Oct. 31, 2011, 06:54 PM
Apparantly you can have a girlfriend though!!!!! :D:lol::yes:

Really though I am pretty sure they can get sued for a discrimatory ad like that. I mean you cannot even post for a roomate on Craigslist like that without getting in trouble.

I suspect 'conservative' probably refers in general to lifestyle (ie no dressing in revealing clothes, body piercings, purple hair, etc.) and as for 'no boyfriends', that's not a protected class, so no, you can't sue over that one. Actually you can't really sue over any of it as it's not a housing ad, it's an ad for private employment. The apartment is contingent on being hired for the job, not a lease to the public.

It really sounds like someone got REALLY burned (and can 99.9% of us on here blame him/her for saying "NO PARELLITES"?), but given what they're offering I think a desperate kid with an equine science degree would be the best bet--someone who's willing to trade off everything else (car insurance, lots of fancy toys, social life) to be able to work and keep a horse at what sounds like a pretty expensive facility. I can't really see an older adult professional agreeing to the terms.

alterationstation
Oct. 31, 2011, 07:22 PM
yes, the compensation package is really not that bad. especially if a hard worker takes advantage of bonuses. Heck, a single person working on minimum wage full-time can barely afford to pay rent, much less board on a horse, or even regular lessons.
However, I agree that the condescending remarks were better left out- there are much nicer ways to state what you are looking for. I would never in a million years apply for that job unless I was currently without a job and living in a cardboard box.

poltroon
Nov. 1, 2011, 12:24 AM
but given what they're offering I think a desperate kid with an equine science degree would be the best bet--someone who's willing to trade off everything else (car insurance, lots of fancy toys, social life) to be able to work and keep a horse at what sounds like a pretty expensive facility. I can't really see an older adult professional agreeing to the terms.

Or actually, attractive to someone freshly divorced with a horse in need.

Horseshowaddict
Nov. 1, 2011, 12:41 AM
The funny thing about this ad, is that at least 75% of the jobs on YandG (and horse jobs in general) are like this, except this person was pretty much totally up front. Aside from a height and weight restriction, I think they covered all of their bases. Most employers are unaware/uncaring that they are being somewhat unrealistic and think that they are gods gift to the world, so you should be grateful that you got chosen for the job :-P

DoubleTwistedWire
Nov. 1, 2011, 12:56 AM
For comparison, it's more than judy over on the Eventing forum was offering, and there were a dozen people on that thread clamoring for the position.

smokygirl
Nov. 1, 2011, 01:45 AM
For comparison, it's more than judy over on the Eventing forum was offering, and there were a dozen people on that thread clamoring for the position.

Yeah but she wasn't saying no social life, and said it was expected they would have time for an additional p/t job (which this doesn't sound like) and was talking about the social aspects of the area they can indulge in.

Not expecting them to live like a hermit.

Trixie
Nov. 1, 2011, 09:03 AM
For comparison, it's more than judy over on the Eventing forum was offering, and there were a dozen people on that thread clamoring for the position.

But, they weren't actually applying, were they?

Silk
Nov. 1, 2011, 09:59 AM
Yes, that line just begs for a pithy comment.

I wonder if the person has really thought out the implications on that requirement. :lol:

I took "conservative" to mean lifestyle, not political party ;) I read it as they were looking for someone who wouldnt go running naked with a BF and a few bottle of beer through their fields after coming home from a late night party (I resemble this remark - lol)

I also sort of understand the "no sleepover" rule....I had a young woman stay with me who sort of moved a bf in - lol. I liked the guy and didnt really mind, but I could see how it could have gone waaaaay bad!!!

Not defending the guy but I understand being this strict when the person is living in your home...not an apartment on your property.

Mara
Nov. 1, 2011, 10:08 AM
I took "conservative" to mean lifestyle, not political party ;) I read it as they were looking for someone who wouldnt go running naked with a BF and a few bottle of beer through their fields after coming home from a late night party (I resemble this remark - lol)

I also sort of understand the "no sleepover" rule....I had a young woman stay with me who sort of moved a bf in - lol. I liked the guy and didnt really mind, but I could see how it could have gone waaaaay bad!!!

Not defending the guy but I understand being this strict when the person is living in your home...not an apartment on your property.

Nobody wants to go raid the fridge for a late night snack and hear their employee and her SO playing bouncy castles in the LQ over the kitchen.

Talk about awkward.

Tamara in TN
Nov. 1, 2011, 10:44 AM
I also sort of understand the "no sleepover" rule....I had a young woman stay with me who sort of moved a bf in - lol. I liked the guy and didnt really mind, but I could see how it could have gone waaaaay bad!!!

Not defending the guy but I understand being this strict when the person is living in your home...not an apartment on your property.

and this happens more often that not....the BF ( who is normally unemployable anyway) moves in with the employee and once in the chance of evicting them is slim,costly and involves the courts

Tamara

elaw
Nov. 1, 2011, 11:54 AM
The compensation sounds great to me. $300 a week, board, and the possibility of health insurance!...but I'm also 23. I like to think that when I'm a middle-aged woman I'll have higher financial standards for myself.

see u at x
Nov. 1, 2011, 11:56 AM
Nobody wants to go raid the fridge for a late night snack and hear their employee and her SO playing bouncy castles in the LQ over the kitchen.

Talk about awkward.

Bouncy castles? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

My day is made...thank you for that!

quicksilverponies
Nov. 1, 2011, 01:21 PM
Well as a barn owner that had gone through MANY interesting employees over the years, I don't blame this owner for specifying her needs. Sometimes you think you can just assume or take for granted that an experienced horse person will know something without spelling it out...!! But that is NOT the case! I have recently had an employee show up to work barefooted (forgot her barn shoes/boots) on more than one occasion - she had to muck stalls and do turnout and bring in for multiple ponies including rowdy young stallions - an accident waiting to happen!! This was a girl in her 20's and a lifelong horse owner herself! I have had a guy bring Playboy magazines to work (when is he looking at them and what else is he doing?) Yuck! I have had another think it is ok to invite her friends along while she works to keep her company....of course she is being paid by the hour and spent half the time chatting with her friend. Another thought is was ok to bring his girlfriend along and party a bit in the hayloft (another yuck!!). I have had them defecate in my stalls and leave the evidence (triple yuck!) and forget to wear a coat and/or gloves in a blowing snowstorm. I do not offer live in arrangements, and my shifts are about 2 to 5 hrs maximum - paid by the hour. There is a fully functional toilet in the indoor facility next door which is available. My middle aged sister is a recent divorcee with a life of horse experience/training skills and would LOVE a job like this. She is currently making $10/hr working in a medical office in NC. She has to pay rent and board, etc. I dont think this job is a bad deal for the right person at all.

DoubleTwistedWire
Nov. 1, 2011, 02:04 PM
But, they weren't actually applying, were they?

Very true ;)

VelvetsAB
Nov. 2, 2011, 04:10 PM
The ad also said "must have sense of humour"....

And by the way it sounds, food is also provided, so everything is taken care of, except for your own personal cell phone, and car bills if you have one.

Cacique
Nov. 2, 2011, 06:19 PM
1) It would take me less than three days to earn that much as a groom.
2) they must be able to speak english, but their employer will be SOLEY able to criticize.
3) conservative....I think that borders on discrimination....

SuperSTB
Nov. 2, 2011, 06:41 PM
Sorry but if they want to attract quality applicants they need to present themselves as a quality employer.

Isabeau Z Solace
Nov. 2, 2011, 07:43 PM
Bottom line, it does not sound like the EMPLOYER is professional. All that ad says to me is that they are probably very dramatic and in your business.

I don't think it is easy to hire help that lives in your house too. It's a two way street- they need to be able to live with you as well. In fact, if I had wealth, I'd rather just pay someone a wage that allows them to rent and commute vs. have them live with me. I reckon most people would rather commute as well... or even live in a trailer home.

People never seem to understand why they have trouble find working students when the "generously" offer use of their home.... well, I like my boss, but god damn, I'd slit my wrists if I had to see her every day at breakfast and dinner as well.

Yep.

WildBlue
Nov. 2, 2011, 07:44 PM
Sorry but if they want to attract quality applicants they need to present themselves as a quality employer.

That's really what it boils down to, isn't it?

For every starry-eyed young thing who thinks he/she should get paid big bucks to ride horses all day, there is a BO or BM whose expectations for employees are based merely on daily whims.

Professionals clearly define expectations up front, so both parties know exactly where they stand and whether either of them is failing to uphold the agreement.

ake987
Nov. 2, 2011, 08:05 PM
I would gladly work that job. I have a similar personality type - No BS, all hard work, and yes, an opportunity to sit on as many backs and get paid a fair wage to do so, with everything else (including your own horse) paid for, an opportunity to learn, just plain gain experience, and an employer with high expectations? If the employer is a skilled, knowledgeable, reputable horse(wo)man I'd take it in a heartbeat.

I bet there are plenty of BNRs and BNTs with crazier demands and expectations.

red2004
Nov. 2, 2011, 08:30 PM
I love this ad, and their sense of humor. I'm not taking it quite as literally as some of you. Should the right mouse wander into this seamingly whimsical trap, they may find themselves pleasantly surprised by the opportunity, and its real earning potential.

texan
Nov. 2, 2011, 10:46 PM
Agreed. I don't think they'd be EASY to work for, but I read it as "no skanks, idiots, druggies or crazy people allowed"... and "you have to actually be able to do what you say you can do" :lol:

And the "Maids Quarters" to me just says "you have your own space" - it even specifies two rooms.

This ad probably was the result of a long line of skanks, idiots and druggies. I see nothing wrong with the ad, it separates the men from the boys.
I see it with the workers at my barn, all talk no action. They talk a good talk though, but when it comes down to the actual work... well lets just say its surprising how many develope a sore body part and can't work anymore.
Really, i just read "frustration" in the ad.:winkgrin:

Dazednconfused
Nov. 3, 2011, 01:27 AM
Those of you that thinks this is such a great deal, let me tell you a story...

I made less than this per week starting out as a groom (in CA, where it's insanely expensive) with promises of "Oh yes, we're getting all the employees health insurance really soon!". Guess what? Worked there for just over 2 years, and they never came through with health insurance for any of us (except themselves :rolleyes:).

So let's say this person breaking babies for you gets hurt (of course, breaking 3 year olds isn't high risk AT ALL...:rolleyes:) between the start of the job and the supposed commencement of health insurance? What THEN?

If you think you can afford health insurance on that salary during that gap...I have a freaking bridge to sell you. Horses are high risk enough on their own, without adding in unpredictable youngsters.

Even all this aside, I don't think it's socially or psychologically healthy to isolate your employees and be so controlling (can you tell I've been there, done that, and got the t-shirt?). What's good for the employer, is very rarely good for the employee in the horse business ;) Run far, far away!

ETA - finished reading the thread. My reaction to this is not positive because I've been burned pretty significantly when offered a similar arrangement when I started out in the business. I wouldn't trust anyone offering this as a result. If they did in fact come through with all of it I would be shocked. I would caution anyone considering applying with getting EVERY LAST BIT OF IT IN WRITING. Do not pass go, do not collect $200! If they balk at putting the insurance, commissions, etc on the contract, RUN AWAY. I don't trust horse people to be honest. Also, if it includes cleaning 30 stalls every day, that adds a significant amount to your workload. And doubly insane if you never get an actual full day off (don't forget, there's still 30 horses that need attention even if you're not there, so there better be another employee that can do your work if you're sick or god forbid, have a day off).

IF and only if the perks/bennies actually happened, then it would actually not be too bad of a deal. But I wouldn't hedge any bets on it actually coming through.

Jumper_girl221
Nov. 3, 2011, 11:37 AM
Wouldn't workmans comp cover any injuries incurred in the line of work (I.E. breaking babies)? Or am I mistaken. We had to pay out a workmans comp claim after one of our guys walked away from wrecking his ATV "fine" but then tripped early the next morning and managed to fracture his wrist, sprain his knee, and mess up his back.

InWhyCee Redux
Nov. 3, 2011, 11:40 AM
No boyfriends though.. that's a bit drastic. Only guests whom are related? So my BFF since Kindergarten can't stay, but My 3rd cousin I've met once can?

And no pets? What middle-aged woman in the horse industry doesn't have pets? And what happens if middle-aged woman shows up with a GF?

smokygirl
Nov. 3, 2011, 12:30 PM
Not to mention I have to be willing to ride every discipline under the sun (well) and take a horse from 0 to ridden in 1 day... lol.

Kryswyn
Nov. 3, 2011, 06:07 PM
Wouldn't workmans comp cover any injuries incurred in the line of work (I.E. breaking babies)? Or am I mistaken. We had to pay out a workmans comp claim after one of our guys walked away from wrecking his ATV "fine" but then tripped early the next morning and managed to fracture his wrist, sprain his knee, and mess up his back.

Pretty sure they have to be an 'employee'. Which working students are frequently NOT.

Most barns like to call their workers 'independent contractors' which they also are NOT but when the IRS comes looking for them that's what they say and are just SHOCKED that they were supposed to be taking out taxes from the workers salaries.

smokygirl
Nov. 3, 2011, 06:09 PM
Pretty sure they have to be an 'employee'. Which working students are frequently NOT.

Most barns like to call their workers 'independent contractors' which they also are NOT but when the IRS comes looking for them that's what they say and are just SHOCKED that they were supposed to be taking out taxes from the workers salaries.

Yup

lawchick
Nov. 4, 2011, 03:57 PM
Regardless of what the employer thinks, this person would clearly be an employee and entitled to workman's comp.

smokygirl
Nov. 4, 2011, 04:09 PM
Regardless of what the employer thinks, this person would clearly be an employee and entitled to workman's comp.

But how often does that slide because the employee doesn't know that? Especially when dealing with younger people, which most WS would be. Not in this case, but in general.

smokygirl
Nov. 4, 2011, 04:12 PM
No Parelli or any other gimmicky horsemanship. Dressage background good, but MUST be able to ride outside of a ring comfortably and prefer it. Must be able to back/ride a colt in one day in a round pen. General Hunt seat skills backed with an "equitation" background. A philosophy that a student must be able to win an equitation class before showing a Hunter or Jumper....good! I like my racehorses to be able to pass a Dressage test....good! Some western preferred, but not required.


So i have to know how to ride a racehorse for conditioning, he has to pass a dressage test, and show well as a Equitation rider. Start colts (wonder about fillies?) in 1 day in a roundpen. Work with greenies. Be able to start and run a lesson program. Feed, Muck, and clean the barn. Ride out on trails, and some western. Oh, and cook.

No wonder he says no boyfriend. Who'd fricken have time?

kmw2707
Nov. 4, 2011, 04:42 PM
Somebody here on COTH needs to apply for this job and keep us all updated.

I think the ad is great and if I weren't 1000 miles away, married, 2 kids and my own boarding/training stable to run....I'd think about it.:lol:

mvp
Nov. 4, 2011, 04:53 PM
But how often does that slide because the employee doesn't know that? Especially when dealing with younger people, which most WS would be. Not in this case, but in general.


Regardless of what the employer thinks, this person would clearly be an employee and entitled to workman's comp.

Well..... they know now. It's on the interwebz.

I do think the person with the (show ring) equitation background should pay homage to the people who invested in all of that expensive education by not "breaking colts to saddle in one day."

Jumper_girl221
Nov. 4, 2011, 05:04 PM
Pretty sure they have to be an 'employee'. Which working students are frequently NOT.

Most barns like to call their workers 'independent contractors' which they also are NOT but when the IRS comes looking for them that's what they say and are just SHOCKED that they were supposed to be taking out taxes from the workers salaries.

This doesn't read like a job for a working student though. And your own insurance company is the one that monitors workmans comp, not the IRS. I know we have to provide proof of insurance for all independent contractors during our annual audit (which isn't THAT hard to get around, but still).

BeeHoney
Nov. 4, 2011, 10:17 PM
Dazed, you make some very wise points. But, I don't think that we can necessarily assume anything about the employer in question based on your previous experience. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that someone who was so, erm, "direct" up front about what they were looking for would probably tend to be direct in their other dealings as well. I would worry more about the jobs where they try to make it sound really fabulous in the ad.

In any case, it doesn't say anything in the ad about paying the person under the table to avoid employment taxes, whether or not workman's comp is provided, or what the time frame will be for the health insurance to kick in.

Frankly, there are plenty of employers in the horse industry who pay proper income taxes and provide workman's comp (remember, this protects the employer as well as the employee). The pay may be low, but hey, that's working in the horse industry. FYI, workman's comp is not a legal requirement for farm workers in every state. Health insurance is a very important benefit that I would like to see more commonplace, but frankly, there are many small horse businesses out there that just don't generate the income to support that.

1sock
Nov. 5, 2011, 02:35 AM
Veering off the topic a bit, noticed this on the lease page:

"Sorel is a bay gelding, who actually looks like a chestnut with exception of his black mane and tail." :confused:

Thankfully they go on to explain he's named after the Sorel boots, not the sorrel color. :lol:

witherbee
Nov. 5, 2011, 03:33 AM
1Sock - live your sig line!

I guess you'd have to meet this person (funny that I assumed a woman wrote this and many seem to think it is a man) if you were interested in the job. To me, the add makes it sound like this person is a PITA and would not treat this employee as a collegue, but as a peon. I too would worry about whether any of the "bonuses" or health insurance would come to pass. Too broad a list of requirements, but again, it may be a wish list and the person may actually have more reasonable expectations.

If it is the location in the website posted, they sure have a TON of retirees there (all look wonderful), and the sales horses looked WAY overpiced for the quality. That would also make me worry that they are very unrealistic.

I would also worry that they would be very persnickety about their home. Would be more comfortable if it was a separate apartment. Looks to be an historic home, and I have visions of them fretting over my use of water and checking on the room all the time. Sharing a kitchen is not ideal at all - you would think they could have made a kichette in one of the 2 rooms...

Again, if I was in the area and was interested, I would at least go for an interview and see if the written word seems different then the actual person. That too can be a red flag though, so make sure to have a good contract with defined criteria and timelines for bonuses and health insurance!

Equilibrium
Nov. 5, 2011, 03:41 AM
I'd say employer just lost another employee and was fet up when writing the ad. However, here is some of my take. If I grafted as hard as it took to build or own said property then guaranteed I'm going to be working just as hard along side of you. So I guess I'm going to want someone to work as hard as I do and refuse to have slackers. On the other hand employer could just want someone to do all the things he/she believes are beneath him/her.

So I guess I'd need to know the following before considering said job. What exactly are my daily duties? Am I SOLE worker or is there a team? Am I ever "off" duty? Great I can have my horse but so I do not over step my bounds I'd like to know when I can and can't ride. As far as starting youngsters if you think having them going one day under saddle is the way things are done, you employer need a wakeup call. Also for safety of horse and rider, 2 competent people are necessary.

I understand the housing rules and initially this would be fine, but if this becomes the beneficial job it's being advertised as such I may choose to live off said property if bonuses and other perks are paying. Will this be an issue. This means I do not expect you to pay me more because I move. Just means things have worked out to my being able to have a life on what you are paying me.

As someone applying for said job I would encourage anyone to be as direct as employee. I do think they have had less than stellar people as employees and are just a bit fet up. But still doesn't give them the right to treat anyone subpar.

With regards to Parelli and colt starting, it is possible they don't want babies in a round pen for 3 months before climbing aboard a horse who has no idea of the purpose for all this nonsense. So they'd probably like to see them ridden instead of 1000 excuses why they can't get on yet. Who knows maybe a former employee never started a baby before and thought, hang on I know let me buy the DVD's that tell me how! LOL!

But seriously, what middle aged woman is going to come live in your house and give up just about everything and not have baggage? And also they could be missing out on super people in the area who would like to live off the property for same pay and horse perks. So I'd be a little worried about live in meaning no time to yourself ever!

Terri

Midge
Nov. 5, 2011, 11:36 AM
So, does anyone know if the linked farm is the employer, or are we raking some random farm over the coals in a completely unrelated thread simply because we can?

equidae
Nov. 5, 2011, 12:36 PM
I hope not. The riding on the "sales" page looks down right scary, holy heck just about every horse looks like it's about to be in a total wreck over the rails and the equitation is terrible.
http://www.elmington.com/Sales.htm

I'm sorry, but what is scary about it?

danceronice
Nov. 5, 2011, 01:39 PM
I'm sorry, but what is scary about it?

Yeah, especially on that first one, I'm not exactly seeing a wreck waiting to happen. Not a world-beater or anything and I think $30k is a bit much, but it's not exactly Jo Podunk jumping bareback over a picnic table in a western curb. One a bit tight to the base on the video, but at no point did the kid look like she was going fly off.

DieBlaueReiterin
Nov. 6, 2011, 06:54 AM
are you kidding me??? 5 years ago i would have been on my way down there as i speak to take that job. i work my ass off 60 hours a week as a teacher and don't have anywhere near $1200 left over at the end of the month! nowhere NEAR that. and i make a decent salary! free board, housing, utilities? that sounds like a really good deal...who cares what your boss' opinions are? how many of us really like our bosses :lol:

MHM
Nov. 6, 2011, 07:41 AM
who cares what your boss' opinions are?

I would care when those opinions are likely to get me hurt working with young horses and unrealistic expectations.

Annandale
Nov. 6, 2011, 12:06 PM
...who cares what your boss' opinions are? how many of us really like our bosses :lol:

You don't live with your boss, though...

Dazednconfused
Nov. 6, 2011, 02:25 PM
Their opinions color how they manage their business. That's why you should care.

In my situation, their opinions certainly had an impact on their horrible management skills. Very different philosophies on...well...everything. It does make a difference in how you approach your everyday work and how you deal with your boss and vice versa. This dynamic is particularly important when you live on the property of your boss (let alone in the same house!).

You spend at least 7 or 8 hours of your day at work (and then add to that any time you're at home, since you will be living with your boss!)...it should at least be tolerable at minimum. That's an awful lot of time to spend being miserable don't you think? ;)

smokygirl
Nov. 6, 2011, 02:29 PM
are you kidding me??? 5 years ago i would have been on my way down there as i speak to take that job. i work my ass off 60 hours a week as a teacher and don't have anywhere near $1200 left over at the end of the month! nowhere NEAR that. and i make a decent salary! free board, housing, utilities? that sounds like a really good deal...who cares what your boss' opinions are? how many of us really like our bosses :lol:

Hopefully anyone who ends up living with them, because if you don't.. that would really suck.

1sock
Nov. 6, 2011, 04:52 PM
1Sock - live your sig line!


Thank you! God bless George Carlin. :winkgrin:

cottonXCblondie
Nov. 6, 2011, 09:39 PM
i would love to do it then write a book about it. i'm not gutsy/brave enough to break a horse, nevermind the house and fam i've accrued. maybe i'll just make up a book or if somebody on here does it, tell me all about it :lol:

summerhorse
Nov. 6, 2011, 11:19 PM
I can't remember the hours but except for no pets (Sorry, gotta have a couple cats!) not only do I fit that description, it pays more (with amenities) than I made working for the state! And now that I don't work for the state I have to pay $561 a month for insurance so that is NOTHING to sneeze at!

We'd have to discuss the backing a baby in one session. Yes it can be done but just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should be.

M. O'Connor
Nov. 7, 2011, 08:27 AM
I think the ad must be tongue-in-cheek, but let me assure you there is no shortage of feelings of entitlement among prospective working students, and I'm convinced that the word "responsibility" is a foreign concept to many who think they know what a 'lifestyle' with horses entails.

NowThatsATrot
Nov. 7, 2011, 08:30 AM
Hey, if I didn't have two horses and three cats, I'd consider it. I've worked for (and lived with) worse.

Eye in the Sky
Nov. 7, 2011, 09:17 AM
Honestly- I think the guy just needs a wife- you only get food if you can cook it.

I was thinking this same thing LOL! You're essentially a 24/7 all-you-can-toil MAID!

ccoronios
Nov. 7, 2011, 02:48 PM
Let's see.
1. $300/wk. with possibility of health insurance.
2. Private living quarters (OK - shared kitchen) - with utilities and internet. Let's say reasonable rent for a studio apt is $500/mo without internet.
3. Board for one horse. (indoor, multiple outdoors, paddocks) $350/mo?

I'm taking a wild stab at these guesstimates. But that brings you up to over $500/wk $2000/mo - BEFORE you earn commissions and bonuses - or receiving health benefits.

Oh yeah - AND food, if you can cook???

Doesn't sound too shabby to me.

Several mention "working student" - this is not an ad for a working student.

I WOULD want some specifics about 'cleaning' - when I first read the ad, I interpreted it as keeping the barn neat and tidy. Many are interpreting it as shovelling...28 stalls a day, if all are occupied. That would leave precious little time for anything else!

I don't think 'backing' a colt (or filly) in one day is necessarily an outrageous idea...PROVIDING the animal has had handling, some manners, and a degree of trust in the person working with it. 'Backing' (as I understand it) does not mean "have the horse going under saddle" - it means being sat on and moving forward without fright or temper.

The ad specifies wanting someone who has a rounded background/ experience with different disciplines. There are far too many people in the horse world who feel their way is the only way. This farm seems to cater to a variety of customers; it's in everyone's best interest to have an employee who understands that there are different strokes for different folks. Having a nodding acquaintance with the disciplines would be a tremendous advantage - to the owner, the customer, and the employee (who stands to earn bonuses and commissions!).

It sounds as though this person has had some experience with wannabes who have misrepresented their abilities - and perhaps been more focused on personal relationships than responsibilities of the job they were hired for. My guess (PURELY - have NO idea who this is) is that s/he'd loosen up once you prove yourself.

BansheeBreeze
Nov. 7, 2011, 03:24 PM
I think the ad is great. The sad thing is most of the jobs on that site offer far worse conditions, they just arent as upfront about it. There are some pretty ridiculous ads there (and are constantly up). Some of those places sucker you into moving halfway across the country with promises and lies and then turn the tables on you when you are screwed and stuck with them. Most want you to work much harder for far less. Hence why I am no longer employed in the horse industry anymore!

ccoronios
Nov. 7, 2011, 03:34 PM
Been there, done that, Banshee! Moved from SC to OR to be head trainer for a place outside Portland many moons ago. Got there (me & one horse) to find that they'd hired a guy with a load of BS. I could be barn help. Thanks.... I left a successful barn/lesson program/show program/PC that I'd helped start... Yeah, I can spell STUPID...that's a synonym for being in your 20s, isn't it???

Muggle Mom
Nov. 9, 2011, 11:12 PM
I think this is the same employer with an ad in Virginia Equestrian:


Listed in: Employment - Help Wanted
Live-In Horse Care/Instructor/Rider
$300.00
Date Added: 11/7/2011
Posted By: Kathie Hamlin
345 Elmington Lane [ MAP ]
Berryville, VA 22611
Email Address: kathiehamlin@verizon.net
Web Link: http://www.elmington.com
Phone: 540-955-6219

If you want to live & breathe horses...........this is the place to be. Situation requires mature non-smoking female that has walked on this earth for at least 30 years. You will be responsible to feed & care for 50+ horses 5-6 mornings per week & 3 evenings. You must be able to give IV shots, keep a daily log, and be at the barn no later than 7 a.m. You will be required to ride 2-3 horses per day. (5-6 days per week)As a rule, you will have 2 days off each week, but on show/event weekends, an extra day will be required. Regarding riding experience, I do not care if you have been to the Olympics, but I want a solid equitation base. Additionally, you must have experience giving lessons. The main clientele is beginners, but you must be able to move them up. You must have experience with children & you must like children & beginner adults. This situation is ideal for someone who has been there done that on the "A" Circuit and wants a more relaxed pace with less stress. We are not a "Show" barn and our focus will not be on getting to shows, but we are not opposed to showing. The job requires 50 hours per week and provides housing for one person & board for one horse. Apartment with 2 rooms, 3 closets, & private bath is located on premises and shares a large kitchen of a historic home. Pay will be $300/week in addition to apt. & board or $125 per week with incentives & bonuses. (this should easily surpass the 1st option in a month or two) Solid references & contract will be required.



Taking care of 50+ horses, ride 2-3, teach lessons 6 days per week ... this is her idea of a "more relaxed pace with less stress.":eek:

mroades
Nov. 9, 2011, 11:16 PM
for 300 a week??? sigh.....

magnolia73
Nov. 10, 2011, 07:19 AM
But... you get an apartment! So that's gotta be worth $1000 a month. Plus what, $600 to board your horse!!!!11!!!!!Plus you get to ride!!!111!!!!! and work with horses!!!111!!! So actually, you are making $2800 a month in cash and prizes! And 4 nights a week you can go wait tables, since as a 30 something woman paying for her own health insurance.... you'll need the extra cash.....

I wonder if they take out taxes and the like or IC the position? That would be awesome to get a year end tax bill!

see u at x
Nov. 10, 2011, 07:44 AM
I think this is the same employer with an ad in Virginia Equestrian:



Taking care of 50+ horses, ride 2-3, teach lessons 6 days per week ... this is her idea of a "more relaxed pace with less stress.":eek:

Heh...if its the same person, then yay, my sleuthing skills were correct. I find it humorous, though, that they mention in the ad something about not being point chasers, yet they have their little publication which is all about shows and points. Oh, and they have shows on their property. Weird.

meupatdoes
Nov. 10, 2011, 08:48 AM
I'm completely amazed that all the people who thought this was so fabulous have not flocked to go interview. She's still looking, guys! Now's your chance!

Kyzteke
Nov. 10, 2011, 08:54 AM
Do you people seriously not take issue with your employer dictating your personal life and political views?

"NO boyfriend, conservative?"

Well, when you are living in your employer's house, yes.

If you were living in Bill Gates' house as his personal secretary, he might not want that either....

Elouise
Nov. 10, 2011, 09:22 AM
First off, as someone who has known a few barn owners who have looked for and tried to hire decent barn help...it is amazing the people that come and interview for jobs! They come drunk or stoned or get off the bus just out of prison. Or even better yet - they come to the interview "normal" and then either don't show up when hired (don't call either) or show up to work late, drunk or both. So, for every person out there who thinks that finding the right person for "responsible" barn help is easy. It ain't! Horses don't understand that they are not getting fed because the barn help has a bad hangover or the parole officer wants to see the person who feeds them in the morning.

Then there are the few that when they do show up - they try and take over the place. Telling everyone how things should be done and what the horses should be fed, when they should be fed. Blah, blah, blah.

I am sure that most barn owners will agree with me.

Secondly, I know Elmington Farm's operation and if you saw it...you'd know it ain't a back breaking job. It's really an opportunity for someone who is knowledgable, energetic, wants to ride and is responsible. 95% of the horses are retirees and live outside! It's time consuming feeding all those horses in fields, but its doable. I have been there at feed time. Taking care of the horses involves checking them for cuts, putting wound medicine on. Giving one the occasional bath, picking feet, bringing one in and giving it banamine and watching it if it's colicky. Some of the horses are there for layup, so some of the riding would be re-habbing in the hills of Virginia. Many of the retirees are sound enough for lessons, so here is an opportunity for someone to start a lesson program and get some additional income.

Before you guys jump all over any ad posted - step into the barn owner's shoes first. Finding good LEGAL legitimate barn help is hard. My old A show barn gave up after three years on the legal "white girls" because they never showed up and were lazy. The horse owners were always complaining about the care.

And remember - labor is the #1 expense in your board bill.

MHM
Nov. 10, 2011, 09:23 AM
I will say the Virginia Equestrian ad which says "housing provided for one person" sounds much more rational and professional than "NO boyfriend!!"

I would love to know how anyone could accomplish the described workload in only 50 hours a week. And if they have shows on site, add another 24 hours of work on those weekends!

I wonder if there is additional compensation for working the extra hours during shows at home? :rolleyes: (<--- Denotes sarcasm.)

The upside for the employer is s/he has certainly gotten lots of extra ad views from this thread! :lol:

holaamigoalter
Nov. 10, 2011, 09:28 AM
But... you get an apartment! So that's gotta be worth $1000 a month. Plus what, $600 to board your horse!!!!11!!!!!Plus you get to ride!!!111!!!!! and work with horses!!!111!!! So actually, you are making $2800 a month in cash and prizes! And 4 nights a week you can go wait tables, since as a 30 something woman paying for her own health insurance.... you'll need the extra cash.....

I wonder if they take out taxes and the like or IC the position? That would be awesome to get a year end tax bill!

To all those people saying the "apartment" is worth ~$1000 a month, go on craigslist and you'll find rooms is people's houses starting at around $300 a month depending on the area. Mind you these are rooms with a private bath but no kitchen (just like this ad).

The ad clearly states that 50-60 hours a week starting at 7am is expected. I'm not about to bust my ass ten hours a day to turn around and bus tables. I HIGHLY DOUBT you will meet any professional rider that would.

I think to a lot of people this sounds good because to those of you not in the horse business, a job being with horses all day sounds pretty damn sweet but I can tell you as a professional myself and being friends with a lot of other pro's, no one I know would touch this ad. And the employer is not looking for a middle aged woman sick of her day job, she's targeting the pro's with experience.

MHM
Nov. 10, 2011, 09:28 AM
Many of the retirees are sound enough for lessons, so here is an opportunity for someone to start a lesson program and get some additional income.

Retired=lesson horse?

From www.m-w.com (Merriam-Webster dictionary):

Main Entry: retired
Function: adjective
Date: 1590
1 : secluded <a retired village>
2 : withdrawn from one's position or occupation : having concluded one's working or professional career

holaamigoalter
Nov. 10, 2011, 09:34 AM
Secondly, I know Elmington Farm's operation and if you saw it...you'd know it ain't a back breaking job. It's really an opportunity for someone who is knowledgable, energetic, wants to ride and is responsible. 95% of the horses are retirees and live outside! It's time consuming feeding all those horses in fields, but its doable. I have been there at feed time. Taking care of the horses involves checking them for cuts, putting wound medicine on. Giving one the occasional bath, picking feet, bringing one in and giving it banamine and watching it if it's colicky. Some of the horses are there for layup, so some of the riding would be re-habbing in the hills of Virginia. Many of the retirees are sound enough for lessons, so here is an opportunity for someone to start a lesson program and get some additional income.


But again, this isn't targeting the right person. She asks for a pro who can break a horse and ride greenies but at the same time wants someone to manage her retirement farm. Its a one in a million person those joe go hand in hand for.

And honestly, what kind of place has such a bad turnout system that tending to wounds is part of the daily schedule? I understand the oldies get colicky but i find it curious that you specifically say bring one in and give it banamine if its colicky. Maybe it wouldn't be a bad thing to have some fresh blood in there and change some policies, but it doesn't sound like the owner will be willing to play.

magnolia73
Nov. 10, 2011, 09:44 AM
To all those people saying the "apartment" is worth ~$1000 a month, go on craigslist and you'll find rooms is people's houses starting at around $300 a month depending on the area. Mind you these are rooms with a private bath but no kitchen (just like this ad).

The ad clearly states that 50-60 hours a week starting at 7am is expected. I'm not about to bust my ass ten hours a day to turn around and bus tables. I HIGHLY DOUBT you will meet any professional rider that would.



;) I was being sarcastic.

Everythingbutwings
Nov. 10, 2011, 09:51 AM
Sigh, mags, some people didn't get the funny gene.

Trixie
Nov. 10, 2011, 09:56 AM
Well, when you are living in your employer's house, yes.

If you were living in Bill Gates' house as his personal secretary, he might not want that either....

Um, NO. My employer does not dictate my political beliefs nor with whom I have a relationship. I cannot understand how you could possibly think that is acceptable - would you be OK with your employer telling you how to vote?

I can understand not wanting your live-in employee not to have their boyfriend spending the night, but dictating that they must not have a boyfriend and that they must share your political beliefs is ridiculous.


You will be responsible to feed & care for 50+ horses 5-6 mornings per week & 3 evenings. You must be able to give IV shots, keep a daily log, and be at the barn no later than 7 a.m.

That sure doesn't sound like 5 days a week/50 hours. Especially not when you add in ALL the duties, all the teaching of lessons and riding and everything else.


Pay will be $300/week in addition to apt. & board or $125 per week with incentives & bonuses. (this should easily surpass the 1st option in a month or two)

And this sure doesn't sound like $300 week + commissions/bonuses + healthcare.


Before you guys jump all over any ad posted - step into the barn owner's shoes first. Finding good LEGAL legitimate barn help is hard.

It's a lot easier if the employer is reasonable in their expectations.

Elouise
Nov. 10, 2011, 09:56 AM
OK for all of you jumping all over me...

Gee...

That's right; horses don't get cuts in turn out.

A retired show horse can't give the occasional up/down lesson. (PS: this is with the owners permission, by they way and if the horse is suitable.) That's right - all those people who donate their retired show horses to collegiate programs for the tax write offs don't expect them to be used in lesson programs? And then when the college is done with them...the college retires them to a nice field in VA where they will not be used in lessons?

What was I thinking?

Trixie
Nov. 10, 2011, 09:59 AM
Elouise, how the heck is this person supposed to find the TIME to build a lesson program?

magnolia73
Nov. 10, 2011, 10:05 AM
Before you guys jump all over any ad posted - step into the barn owner's shoes first. Finding good LEGAL legitimate barn help is hard.

We have a great barn manager at my barn. He gets a nice HOUSE seperate from his employer, where his whole family can live. He gets two days off a week. He makes more than $6 an hour. He cares for 10 horses, plus the grounds. I know he puts in some long days with mowing, but doesn't seem exhausted. Our board is pretty much in line with the area/facility/care.

So her offer is 5x more horses **(to be cared for in roughly the same number of hours), a lower hourly rate, and a room in a house where you can't have your family/lover/friend....plus you need to ride. Plus my area has a lower cost of living.

I also used to board at a barn that paid their help decently and had moderate expecations - usually 2-3 people caring for maybe 25-30 horses. An apartment where the owner didn't live, health care and wages higher than the $6 an hour the ad posted. No trouble at that farm keeping very good, legal, reliable employees on staff who showed up sober and ready to work.

mildot
Nov. 10, 2011, 10:31 AM
Do you people seriously not take issue with your employer dictating your personal life and political views?

"NO boyfriend, conservative?"

You can take all the issue you want with that. If so, don't apply for the job.

Since neither political affiliation nor boyfriends are protected categories, and since presumably this position is at-will employment, you can easily be not hired or fired for either of those reasons.

That's reality and none of your indignation is going to change it.

Trixie
Nov. 10, 2011, 10:45 AM
You can take all the issue you want with that.

Well, duh - exactly. I didn't say it was protected, I said I thought it was crazy. This is a position for a barn worker, not someone who writes policy or works for the RNC.

If you people want to go work an underpaid job for a zillion hours a week where you're told that you must be over 30 and yet, you're not permitted to have a boyfriend and that you must agree with your boss's political views, that is certainly your prerogative.

It isn't mine. I can't imagine letting my employer have that level of control over my life (and I already thought that they had a high level of control over my life). I just think this is a bad precedent - and I do question why one would agree to it, even if they were single and agreed with the viewpoint.

magnolia73
Nov. 10, 2011, 10:47 AM
Mildot,
I agree- that's the terms of the job so be it....

However, people with these "awesome" jobs come on and gripe about "good help being hard to find!!!!!111!!!11!!" because "Kids today are self entitled!!!11!!!". The reality is that they are bad employers, paying below the going rate, providing dubious benefits.

axl
Nov. 10, 2011, 11:16 AM
I'm a little astonished that so many of you missed the humor in the first ad, especially when it concludes by saying applicants must have a sense of humor. And then you jump on Elouise...
If most of those horses are retirees living in a field, as stated, feeding and cleaning the barn won't take all that much time every day. And of course they're looking for someone who can handle nearly every situation-that doesn't mean you'd be treating colic or cleaning wounds every day, don't be absurd, just that you can do it when necessary. Although some people think every horse needs to be cared for like an A circuit hunter, field boarded horses do quite well with very little time and attention every day.
Racehorses doing dressage? That blatantly means they like them to learn more than to run straight, not to be able to complete a test! Just because they host a few shows doesn't make them hypocrites for not wanting a lesson program that is show-oriented, nor does publishing a newsletter about shows. Probably they show themselves but don't want a "show" barn. There are several other comments here too silly to address.
I would nail them down on health insurance (i.e. if you're happy with me I will be insured after 90 days or I walk) and specifics regarding incentives and commissions if I were applying, and insist on real privacy in my "maid's quarters."
I was "employed" as a "working student" where I got 1 day off in 5 months, no teaching of any kind, and around $100 in spending money the entire spell, so I understand what some of you are saying. However, I feel these people are being very open and honest about the kind of employee they want, and I don't think they should be condemned for that.

CVPeg
Nov. 10, 2011, 11:32 AM
While reading through this thread, until a definite ID was made, I was thinking...

1) His wife probably just left him.;)

2) I can boil lobster.:yes:

3) Oops, guess there'd be no hiding the Irish Wolfhound...:eek:

Everythingbutwings
Nov. 10, 2011, 11:44 AM
If you people want to go work an underpaid job for a zillion hours a week where you're told that you must be over 30 and yet, you're not permitted to have a boyfriend and that you must agree with your boss's political views, that is certainly your prerogative.

Trixie, you left out "and then come complaining on the forums about how HORRID the BO is with unrealistic expectations and the job not being what you were led to believe!"

Lordy knows, there have been plenty of those threads on here. :rolleyes:

Trixie
Nov. 10, 2011, 11:45 AM
This to be followed by a thread on how ENTITLED!!!!! all barn workers are, especially (apparently) if they are "white girls."

magnolia73
Nov. 10, 2011, 12:16 PM
Balanced out of course by a complaint thread about some MEXICAN GROOM DARING TO TALK TO A BOARDER IS SEXUAL HARASSMENT!!!

holaamigoalter
Nov. 10, 2011, 08:32 PM
;) I was being sarcastic.

Oops! Internet speak goes right over my head sometimes (ok, all the time)