I found my mare's 7 month fetus yesterday morning. FINAL RESULTS---PAGE 5

[talloaks]

Yep!! Wondered why the horses were really "funny" about coming in the barn, past the attached big run in shed, Sat night, only to see something unusual Sunday morning. Upon inspection it was a fetus complete in the bag with all the accompaniments. Horror upon horrors!!!! Which mare did it belong to???? I only had 2 in foal for this year!!! ( my earlier thread this year was about giving it all up!!)

mr talloaks had mentioned last week that one of the stalls had so much urine, he had never seen so much and wondered if the horse was sick. (Still no lights went on in my head!) The mare seemed fine, didn't think too much about it, until finding the fetus------then all the emergency lights went on!!! Oh darn!!! Made an emergency call to my vet, he was on vacation so got his sub who I've known for many years, and he examined the fetus---a beautiful bay filly (just what I had ordered) and could see nothing at all wrong with it, so I will be taking it into the state lab tomorrow (holiday today for gov workers) He also checked the suspected mare and she had all the signs of having aborted. Looks good, nothing torn or infected looking. He did treat her with some meds. My regular vet will be out tomorrow afternoon.

What a shocker!! 25 years of having foals and this is the first abortion. Guess I was lucky she had it by the barn because the foxes and vultures hadn't gotten to it. She was a beautiful filly!! Oh so sad---what can I say??? Guess that's my payment for moaning about this business and giving it up!! Now I have more breedings!!! Guess I'll never be able to give up until I use them all!!!

I don't know---I'm still kind of confused and really don't know what to think???? It is just so very sad!! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif

"There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man." Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)

www.talloaksfarm.net (http://www.talloaksfarm.net)

[This message was edited by talloaks on Jan. 29, 2004 at 10:05 PM.]

[This message was edited by talloaks on Feb. 07, 2004 at 08:46 PM.]

[talloaks]

Yep!! Wondered why the horses were really "funny" about coming in the barn, past the attached big run in shed, Sat night, only to see something unusual Sunday morning. Upon inspection it was a fetus complete in the bag with all the accompaniments. Horror upon horrors!!!! Which mare did it belong to???? I only had 2 in foal for this year!!! ( my earlier thread this year was about giving it all up!!)

mr talloaks had mentioned last week that one of the stalls had so much urine, he had never seen so much and wondered if the horse was sick. (Still no lights went on in my head!) The mare seemed fine, didn't think too much about it, until finding the fetus------then all the emergency lights went on!!! Oh darn!!! Made an emergency call to my vet, he was on vacation so got his sub who I've known for many years, and he examined the fetus---a beautiful bay filly (just what I had ordered) and could see nothing at all wrong with it, so I will be taking it into the state lab tomorrow (holiday today for gov workers) He also checked the suspected mare and she had all the signs of having aborted. Looks good, nothing torn or infected looking. He did treat her with some meds. My regular vet will be out tomorrow afternoon.

What a shocker!! 25 years of having foals and this is the first abortion. Guess I was lucky she had it by the barn because the foxes and vultures hadn't gotten to it. She was a beautiful filly!! Oh so sad---what can I say??? Guess that's my payment for moaning about this business and giving it up!! Now I have more breedings!!! Guess I'll never be able to give up until I use them all!!!

I don't know---I'm still kind of confused and really don't know what to think???? It is just so very sad!! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif

"There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man." Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)

www.talloaksfarm.net (http://www.talloaksfarm.net)

[This message was edited by talloaks on Jan. 29, 2004 at 10:05 PM.]

[This message was edited by talloaks on Feb. 07, 2004 at 08:46 PM.]

[carosello]

Im so sorry Talloaks! I know exactly how sad you feel...we lost one last year at 320 days. It isnt an easy business that is for sure.

GOV stallion Auction http://www.oldenburghorse.com/auctionpage.html

[breezymeadow]

Oh Bernie - I am SO sorry to hear this. What a horror, & one that I have yet to experience still being a neophyte at all of this.

I too have considered "giving it all up" due to what seems to be my consistently failing health. Have no foals due for this coming season, but do have a breeding to use via Liz's "State of the Art", & as long as I'm going to do that, will probably choose another nice man for my other mare so they can all hopefully cavort together.

Anyway - don't want to get off topic. Again - sincere best wishes to keep your chin up. You are a credit to hopeful breeders everywhere. Please don't let this get you down. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

My body is a temple - unfortunately, it's a "fixer-upper".

[Samson]

I am sorry to here about your loss. We had a two and a half week old foal die on us once. It was really sad. (theres a picture of him in my photo album) his name was Picasso. He was also just what i ordered, dark dark brown with a star.

I hope that all goes well with your other horse.
Again I am very sorry and all the best.

I went riding today. Horseback? Sure. It came back before I did

My Photo Album (http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=3303244&uid=1718926)

[HFSH]

Aww geez Bern, that really stinks. I"m so sorry. Which one did you lose?

I worry constantly about my mares. We are on a closed property but that doesn't necessarily matter!

Had she had any recent vaccinations or anything that may have triggered it?? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental. | MBG SSA! - online now! (http://www.breedersgroup.com) | HFSH Barter Forum (http://www.hopefulfarm.com/cgi-bin/yabb1.31/YaBB.pl)

[Draygonfyne]

I'm so sorry to hear about you loss.... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif

My kingdom for a horse
CHECK OUT MY WEBSITE:
www.draygonfynedesign.ca (http://www.draygonfynedesign.ca)

[talloaks]

Well Steph, it was ParAvion by Parabol, in foal to the HOL Concerto Grosso. ParAvion had only been to the inspection back in Oct and made Premium mare status, had had her shots in timely fashion, so don't have a clue. As the vet said, we may never know, and as far as the lab coming up with a reason by inspecting the fetus, he said they only come up with a reason 20% of the time.

This mare was bred once and had two embryos (or what ever you call them at 18 days) and they were close together, the vet wiggled things around and they separated enough for him to pinch off one, and then she was on regumate (is it) for "X" number of days. When he palpated her in Oct or so, he said she was fine and actually had a larger fetus than the other mare, the Wetherson mare, who is in foal to the same stallion about the same time. They both had two embryos at 18 days and had to have one pinched but Felices were further apart and easier to pinch. Don't know if that has anything to do with it or not???

No one has been anywnere and I do have a closed herd. No one is in training now with winter. We haven't had any big snow or ice within the last 2 weeks to cause a fall, but that doesn't mean that she didn't take a tumble. No marks on her from being kicked--although when it got cold I did put the blankets on. I swear these horses wait every winter and ask for their blankets!!

Don't know, anyone got any ideas????? I'm open to suggestions.

"There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man." Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)

www.talloaksfarm.net (http://www.talloaksfarm.net)

[Kneigh]

Such a loss. You have my heartfelt sympathy.

[hunt_jump]

I am so sorry to hear about your loss http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

~ hunt_jump ~
http://home.cfl.rr.com/huntjump

[Bugs-n-Frodo]

I am soooooo sorry, how devistating. I hope you have a sucessful rebreeding.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Amy
Owned by:
Cute as a Bugsear (Bugs) JC OTTTB (Isella x Annie Somebody)
Pippen (Frodo) ATA Anglo Trakehner (Paramoure x Cute as a Bugsear)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[talloaks]

Samson , your Picasso was SO BEAUTIFUL!! What ever happened that you lost him so early??? I am SO SORRY!!

"There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man." Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)

www.talloaksfarm.net (http://www.talloaksfarm.net)

[Oldenburg Mom]

Oh Talloaks. I'm so very very sorry. What a disheartening day for you. I am sorry you have to go through this, and you must hurt.

Here's a biiiiiig huuuuuuug for you sweetheart.

Cour-age! as the French say. And remember, take it slow, one day at time. And please keep us informed about what the problem is/was.

{{{HUGS}}}

It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. (T. Roosevelt)
KT
P.S. The more people I get to know, the more I love my horse.

[ise@ssl]

Sorry to hear of the loss Bernie - it's terrible to actually see that the foal is normal. We lost a full term filly - she was too large and was stuck. She was perfect in everyway as well.


Falling doesn't usually do it. We had a mare slide and fall hard on the ice - heavy in foal - my Vet told me that doesn't usually cause them to abort. Perhaps the lab work will show something - though sometimes - as your Vet says you will never know.

I always say these horses all belong to God - they are just on loan to us and sometimes it's for a short period of time. Hope the mare is o.k.

[onetempies]

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif

HUGE (((HUGS))) being sent your way! So sorry for your loss. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

*Member of the bad shoulder clique* (open surgery was 1-6-03)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~
Owned by LT Parfait 1985 Arab Mare, Valboa's Mercedes 1991 Holsteiner/TB cross, and L Chevelle 2003 Holsteiner colt.
Trying to be Superman at 4 months (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Jan/2004193796910058858134.jpg)
Chevy weaned at 4.5 months (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Jan/2004191087185574605344.jpg)
Boy with an attitude at 7 months & arab with no ears (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Dec/200312258578373322938620.jpg)
Chev 7 month butt shot & Parfait (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Dec/200312258180889950365790.jpg)
Chev 7.5 months, blurry, but acting studly (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Dec/200312254841657978703941.jpg)

[Oakstable]

I experienced the same thing last year. I took the placenta and lab into the state clinic the same morning, and they could find nothing to explain why the fetus died. The foal was a perfect black colt.

This past Thursday, I found my Iroko filly dead in her paddock. She was six months old. I am devastated. I have no idea what happened but I suspect a kick may have cracked a rib and punctured a lung.

I am trying not to read too much into this, but I am wondering if this is a sign that I need to grow a garden, not horses. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Sally
www.oakhollowstable.com (http://www.oakhollowstable.com)

Raising Dynamite horses in SoCAl

[HFSH]

My friend lost a filly last year, about 7 months as well. They never figured out what it was. The vet told her most likely it was a strain of rhino, even though she had vaccinated against it. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif I'm not sure if that's correct or not. It sure makes you wonder when it appears as though nothing is wrong. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

Sally I'm so sorry about Whitney. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental. | MBG SSA! - online now! (http://www.breedersgroup.com) | HFSH Barter Forum (http://www.hopefulfarm.com/cgi-bin/yabb1.31/YaBB.pl)

[gardeniasgirl]

POOR THING.


WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gifhttp://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gifhttp://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gifhttp://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gifhttp://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gifhttp://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gifhttp://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gifhttp://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gifhttp://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gifhttp://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gifhttp://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif

*Gardenis PASB
(engano x garsella) http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Justbay]

Sorry to hear of the loss of your filly. What a sad experience for you. To be so excited for such a great filly must be devastating. My condolences.

[talloaks]

Oakstable!! I am SO SORRY you lost a youngster!!! It's so hard to find them gone already but maybe that is easier than seeing them suffer---perhaps God took them quickly, as some has already said, these horses are only on loan to us and some for a shorter time than others. Remember, as big as these creatures are, they ARE SO FRAGILE!! God Bless You and heal your wounded heart..)))HUGS(((

"There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man." Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)

www.talloaksfarm.net (http://www.talloaksfarm.net)

[Galileo1998]

I am so sorry to hear about your loss http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif And Oakstable I feel terrible for you as well. Your filly was just stunning http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[Oldenburg Mom]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> God Bless You and heal your wounded heart <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, talloaks. For you too. For Oakstable and Samson you as well.

Maybe Cactuskate and Dublin needed some new project horses ... and Willem needed a new stepson/stepdaughter.

It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. (T. Roosevelt)
KT
P.S. The more people I get to know, the more I love my horse.

[STF]

Gosh guys, to all of you who have lost this year....Im so sorry!
LaNet


If Ignorance is Bliss...then Im really happy!

http://www.spindletopfarms.com
Breeding Only Champion Bloodlines

[blackstallion]

I'm sorry to hear of your loss, too, Talloaks. Nora's Gal (TB) aborted around 90 days so she won't be having a foal in 2004. We know that they won't carry to term if anything is wrong, so we assumed something was wrong. I know it must be hard to see what appears to be a healthy filly aborted. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

How devastating as well for you Oakstable. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif I wish we could shelter them from accidents, but it wasn't anyone's fault if she got kicked. It could happen to any horse at any time.

Kim
Eastern Shore of Virginia
Standing Katahdin
1999 Black JC Thoroughbred Stallion
http://rrthoroughbreds.tripod.com/katahdin/

[LEP Enterprises, LLC]

/hug Talloaks

She is running with the angels...

________________________
*London*Hannah*Kirsche*
*Gryphon Bay & foal on the WAY!!!*

[Oakstable]

Whitney was going to be the next generation in my broodmare band. I don't know if I am trying to read too much into it but I wonder if something is telling me to quit. Just like Talloaks pondered over quitting recently.

The mom is in foal to Routinier and I am sure it will be a lovely foal. My production history heavily favors colts, another reason I was so delighted with this filly.

Raising Dynamite horses in SoCAl

[Norsire]

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif So Sorry! I've been throught this twice, and both where perfect fillies at 9 months and 8 months along! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

There are no answers, only the search.
Home to the stallions Zillionair, Issue of Gold, Gold Card, and Pure White Gold.
http://www.norsire.com
Realtor RE/MAX Renaissance, Million Dollar Club
http://www.bridgetperry.com

[M.K.Smith]

My condolences

MKB...

________
http://www.leakycreek.com/
- new & improved (over 1000 pics in Photo Gallery)

[LLDM]

Oh Talloaks, there are no words. I can only offer that too many of us have been there in someway, at some time and share your pain. So few outside the breeding world understand the pain, the inner strength and the joy we know as breeders.

I do not know you in person, but have read your posts and know you "get it". Please don't give up yet. There is still a part of you that knows the joy.

Life doesn't come easy, but it's worth the struggle.

SCFarm

Mostly Harmless

[elizabeth Callahan]

Bernie,
I know how you feel, having had 3 abort last year. Nothing found in any of them on necropsy. I felt truly jinxed. BUT, the mares were ok, and seem to be holding so far this year (keeping fingers crossed). Don't take it as any kind of sign to stop breeding, just bad luck that will hit all of us if we breed long enough. I'm glad the mare is ok, and am thinking about you

[Silly Mommy]

Having just gone through this, I feel your pain. Best thing to do is keep looking forward and putting one foot in front of the other...

I am very sorry for your loss. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif

Most people who go around fanning the flames of crises are themselves the problem.


http://groups.msn.com/WolfdenFarm/shoebox.msnw

[okggo]

I'm so sorry guys- to all of you who have lost babies. I'm a first time breeder here, and can't even imagine the pain to lose a mare/foal. It literally gives me nightmares, and my mare is not even in foal yet.
But, these things happen b/c something is wrong- be it with the mare or the foal. Nature is taking care of itself, and possibly preventing what may have been even more heartache if the mare did not abort.
Please don't take this as a sign to quit. It's not a sign, just a tragedy. Please don't lose heart!!
BIG HUGS from a future "mom to be" looking up at you guys in awe. I have a lot of respect for you, your business, your dedication, your passion, and your horses!

"Her life was okay. Sometimes she wished she were sleeping with the right man instead of with her dog, but she never felt she was sleeping with the wrong dog." Judith Callas

[Draygonfyne]

Oakstable...my condolences to you as well for the loss of your filly. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

My kingdom for a horse
CHECK OUT MY WEBSITE:
www.draygonfynedesign.ca (http://www.draygonfynedesign.ca)

[Home Again Farm]

Talloaks,

I am so sorry about the loss of your foal. I have no ideas of what may have caused it. Here's a hug -- {{{{{{{{{{{{Bernie}}}}}}}}}}}}} http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

Mary Lou

http://www.homeagainfarm.com

[Tiki]

Bernie, Oakstable and Sampson, I'm so sorry for your losses. Been there, done that and it ain't no fun! I lost a gorgeous colt who was too big to be born, started out alive and suffocated during birth. Took the vet and a big strapping assistant to pull out a (by then) dead colt. I also lost an almost yearling last year who apparently hit his head in the 'recovery room' after surgical removal of a retained testicle. Crushed the Atlas and axis together, he became very neurologic and had to be put down. He had been a Premium foal and had the most wonderful personality. Unfortunately, as someone else said, if you breed long enough you wind up with some horrible losses. My heart goes out to you guys.

Tranquility Farm (http://www.tranquilityfarm.com)
We don't have many, but the ones we have are nice

[2Dogs]

TallOaks and Oakstable - http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif

I am so sorry for both of you.....

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result"
Albert Einstein

[Bugs-n-Frodo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tiki:
Bernie, Oakstable and Sampson, I'm so sorry for your losses. Been there, done that and it ain't no fun! I lost a gorgeous colt who was too big to be born, started out alive and suffocated during birth. Took the vet and a big strapping assistant to pull out a (by then) dead colt. I also lost an almost yearling last year who apparently hit his head in the 'recovery room' after surgical removal of a retained testicle. Crushed the Atlas and axis together, he became very neurologic and had to be put down. He had been a Premium foal and had the most wonderful personality. Unfortunately, as someone else said, if you breed long enough you wind up with some horrible losses. My heart goes out to you guys.

http://www.tranquilityfarm.com
_We don't have many, but the ones we have are nice_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I remember you saying something about that and that is why I am so nervous about my colt's retained testicle. I am sorry for both losses .;(

Oakstable and Sampson, I am so very sorry for your losses as well.

{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}} to all of you.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Amy
Owned by:
Cute as a Bugsear (Bugs) JC OTTTB (Isella x Annie Somebody)
Pippen (Frodo) ATA Anglo Trakehner (Paramoure x Cute as a Bugsear)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[onetempies]

Hey Amy... drop me a PT to remind me to tell you about FishyTrial from UDBB! She has to take her colt in because of a retained testicle...

My heart goes out to all of you who have suffered losses. So very sad! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif

*Member of the bad shoulder clique* (open surgery was 1-6-03)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~
Owned by LT Parfait 1985 Arab Mare, Valboa's Mercedes 1991 Holsteiner/TB cross, and L Chevelle 2003 Holsteiner colt.
Trying to be Superman at 4 months (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Jan/2004193796910058858134.jpg)
Chevy weaned at 4.5 months (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Jan/2004191087185574605344.jpg)
Boy with an attitude at 7 months & arab with no ears (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Dec/200312258578373322938620.jpg)
Chev 7 month butt shot & Parfait (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Dec/200312258180889950365790.jpg)
Chev 7.5 months, blurry, but acting studly (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Dec/200312254841657978703941.jpg)

[risingstarfarm]

Talloaks, I know what you are feeling and you have my sympathy. One of our mares lost her foal at 7 months (just recently). We didn't find the fetus, so were unable to determine if there was some sort of anatomical anomaly that might have been responsible. Fortunately, and most importantly, the mare is just fine - we plan to rebreed her this spring.

Ronda
www.risingstarfarm.net (http://www.risingstarfarm.net)

[jilltx]

Just wanted to add my condolances for everyone's losses. Truly heartbreaking!

~Jilltx
http://doobage.redirectme.net/horses/kelly2.jpg

"I wonder if they are using the same wind that we are using?" - The Princess Bride

[talloaks]

Thank you all for your kind words and condolences to everyone who has lost a foal/fetus/yearling or mare, the pain is all the same but sharing the feelings helps with the pain and dispair.

elizabeth Callahan, I know you had a horrible and painful year last season and I feel your despair from last season and your hopes for this year. But did you have all of your foals tested last year with nothing showing up?? Were the mares kept together? My vet said my mare is now considered "Thyphoid Mary" and has to be kept in isolation from the other pregnant mare for a minimum of 2 weeks, until further test are done. I don't know what good this is because they were all in the same big field and if there are any contaminants they are already in the field. Did you have your entire herd vaccinated for rhino or just the in foal mares???

Well tomorrow I take the fetus in--its been cold enough outside that it should still be pretty well preserved for the testing---but wouldn't you know it was a holiday!! That is the way these things always happen.

Regardless how long you are into horses, there is always something new to happen --- guess it happens to all of us sometime or another. I don't mean to complain as my brood mares did exceptionally well this year with all getting into the premium mare book and one being the East Caost High Scoring Premium Mare. But I did loose a Wonderful filly at birth last May and now this abortion so we have to accept the good with the bad-----it all evens out in the end. Just remember that the glass is half full!! (not half empty!! And pardon my typos!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

"There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man." Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)

www.talloaksfarm.net (http://www.talloaksfarm.net)

[showjumpers66]

I am so very, very sorry for your loss.

Quantum Leap Farm (http://home.earthlink.net/~bsikkink/)

[HSGFarms]

I am so sorry to everyone that has lost a foal http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gifyou are in my thoughts and prayers http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif

[Nikita]

talloaks, Oakstable and Sampson - I am so sorry. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
{{{{{Hugs}}}}}

[elizabeth Callahan]

Bernie,
My mares were all together the entire time and in an isolated herd - no mixing with the competiton horses. All vaccinated for rhino - including the entire herd every 90 days. First mare aborted in Oct, with no signs. Nothing on necropsy of fetus. Couldn't find placenta - she was out in the field and it wasn't found, so don't know what it was like
Second mare had vaginal discharge from day 90 or so - treated for placentitis but never resolved - she is now 18 and has become a urine pooler, so I suspect that is what caused the placentitis, but we didn't isolate anything significant from the fetus. She had a retained placenta for 5 days, so it is difficult to say if the stuff i cultued from her later was the infection or from the retained placenta. She aborted in early Dec.
Third mare bagged up suddenly and aborted in early Jan - placenta looked abnormal in one horn, but nothing grew on culture and it was not remarkable on histopathology.
No mares had increased titers to EVA or rhino. No exposure to anything I know of - they've been in the same pastures for 15 years. Two of them had been to an inspection , but that was 2 months before any of this happened.
So, in a lot of cases you just don't know what caused it. I hope you find somthing definitive - it makes it a little easier to handle if you know. Please let us know if you get any answers on your fetus

[treasmare]

So very sad....I am thinking about you.

[pintofoal]

I'm so sorry http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Liz Hall silverwoodfarm.com (http://silverwoodfarm.com) The Scavenger Hunt has begun!

[Fred]

dear Bernie - I just read your post, I am so sorry for you, and for Oakstable, Silly Mommy, and all of us who have lost foals. Bernie, I know you have been a bit down lately, but please don't take this as a 'sign' of anything. As my husband tells me, it is the 'law of averages', and if you do it long enough, something will go wrong.
My big TB mare Macassa foaled successfully this year (2003), but the two previous years she aborted at 7 months. The first one, I had just gone out for a couple of hours and came home, she still had the placenta, and the fetus was still warm. It was a big huge beautiful bay colt...and we could see nothing wrong with him, except, I thought his umbilical cord seemed bigger and softer looking than a term baby...the vet thought nothing of it, the baby was taken for an autopsy and the cause of abortion was found to be "fetal mortality".. they could not test for rhino because the mare had had her 7months rhino shot the week before. closed herd. The mare had looked fabulous, really blooming.. later that year we started to hear about FLS, specifically in KY...
I bred the mare back, she caught again first breeding, and once again looked fabulous. This time I did not vacinate her for rhino.. and once again she aborted at 7 months. This time I found the baby out in the huge pasture, and it was very tiny, which made me think he was a twin, but we could find nothing else... although there is the possibility if there was another foal,the coyotes or foxes might have got it, the one I found was in pieces. I was out there with my wheelbarrow, picking up pieces of the foal and throwing up... and wondering how the rescue workers after 9.11 could have managed..
so, we bred the mare back again, again she caught right away, I put her on regumate, and kept her on it throughout her pregnancy, despite everyone's assurances that she 'should' not need it anymore, and she had a beautiful healthy colt.
This year she is pregnant again, and she is on regumate, and she is just 7 months again....
I am prepared for the worst and hoping for the best.
HUGS to you Bernie, and to everyone who has had a loss...
xoxox Gail

[Holly Jeanne]

How horrible for you. I'm so sorry! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif

[camohn]

It's awful to go through. I am holding my breath anxiously this year as we also lost 3 we bred to abortions last year at months 6,7 and 8. The foals were necropsied as well: 1 had a bacterial infection and 2 were unexplained. Starting to turn blue holding breath this year as a neighbor had one mare abort and her second mare came in recently w/ discharge and is getting rechecked. (The other 2 mares we bred did have foals: 1 healthy and 1 weak one 'cause mom had poor milk production and ended up a bucket baby.......but turned out OK in the end.) 1 healthy baby out of 5 was really bad...this year HAS to go better! Have 3 or 4 due this year. (3 we know of: due in March, April and July; one mare US not in foal at end of season but looks fatter to me and I have to get her rechecked in a couple weeks.If so due for a late cover baby in July.)

Providence Farm

[talloaks]

Well guys I just got back from the state lab and dropping off the filly fetus. They say we may have some results in 2 days or so.

Thanks Fred, I know it is the law of averages and it does catch up with you eventually, but there seems to be so many having problems. By the way what is FLS you mentioned? Guess I have been in a fog someplace to be unaware of this!! My vet will be out later today to check the mare and I'll have him draw blood or whatever for any possibilities. I sure hope she doesn't have to go on regumate for a full term---she's just a 97 mare with time for lots of healthy foals!!

Chin up everyone with these problems---we shall overcome!! wasn't that yesterday "theme song". well for those of you with jobs that gave you a day off yesterday!! not my husband though!!

"There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man." Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)

www.talloaksfarm.net (http://www.talloaksfarm.net)

[hansiska]

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif So sorry for you and for everyone who has lost a foal. I do want to thank you all for sharing your experiences. For what it's worth, I've been on the fence about using Rugumate on my new 18 year old mare (previous owner recommended it, but the mare's done nothing to warrant it). You've all just pushed me over that fence. We'll be using Regumate.

[Rubs Not Pats]

Hang in there. I too, have lost a foal a little earlier but still horrifying when you find it there in the stall. I too really didn't get an explanation other than the mare had chronically low progesterone and had to be hospitalized on IV meds for a kick in the knee that went into the joint. She was home a week before she aborted. I never bred the mare back, she was old and had a lot of problems, so it was for the best.

I am sorry for your loss and hope that your next foal is born healthy, strong and is everything you hope and wish for.

[HFSH]

I just read recently on "The Horse" that there's been a dramatic increase in Lepto this year. It might be worth asking the vets about.

Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental. | MBG SSA! - online now! (http://www.breedersgroup.com) | HFSH Barter Forum (http://www.hopefulfarm.com/cgi-bin/yabb1.31/YaBB.pl)

[can't re-]

I am so sorry tallaoks. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
Hugs to all have lost wee ones.....

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Et vera incessu patuit dea. (Aenid I, 405)
And her stride revealed she was a true goddess.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[Leena]

Really sad for you Talloaks !!!! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif

With so much bad news, I keep checking my girls everyday. This will be my first experience and I don't want it to turn as a nightmare.

Yours in sport,

Leena

[talloaks]

Hi Steph---what is Lepto???? Sorry to be slow about these things!!! Glad your little boy is better this morning!!! Good News!!

"There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man." Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)

www.talloaksfarm.net (http://www.talloaksfarm.net)

[ThreeCorgis]

Dear TallOaks, like yourself and others I also have experienced the heartbreak of a mare aborting (into my lap) a perfect near term filly and losing a stunning colt the night before inspections...you have many caring shoulders here. Reading all the heartache here, I only wish all our prospective buyers (hagglers, tire kickers, and serious horsepeople alike) could see these stories/responses and perhaps appreciate just what goes into raising that horse they are looking at!
Best wishes.

[Oakstable]

Reading these posts reminded me that I kept my mare on Regumate for her entire pregnancy so that I would get this foal. Then to lose her at six months, unbelievable.

Anyone here insure their most prized foals?

Raising Dynamite horses in SoCAl

[ahf]

I'm so sorry Bernie. Lepto is leptospirosis. Spread by wildlife, (urine, I think) If you have any pooled water this is worth investigating.

When Lesley aborted last year at 8 months (at Joan's - just up the road from you) I had the fetus sent to the state lab, and a portion of the placenta sent to Cornell to check for lepto and nocardioform. You may wish to do the same thing. No reason in my case either, and a closed herd. But not knowing the reason for 80% of abortions sounds high.

I'm betting the mare will be fine, but I'd run a culture and cytology too. If she does come up dirty - it's never too early to start cleaning her up.

[talloaks]

Thanks ahf!! I know you have had some heartbreaking experiences one after the other, so it seems to hit all of us.
Just thought about the oppossums we were exterminating earlier this year ???(we did get all 7, my cousin, the retired game warden, said they come in litters of 6 and the mother) We don't have a pond, unless you can call the water left by the abundance of rain this year????
I just feel "driven" to find the answer to this problem!!!
Thank you for all your responses---I'll question my vet in a couple of hours when he arrives to check the mare.
Anything else I should have him test for????

"There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man." Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)

www.talloaksfarm.net (http://www.talloaksfarm.net)

[HFSH]

Bern, here's the link to the article:

http://www.thehorse.com/viewarticle.asp?fid=4940&dpt=5

Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental. | MBG SSA! - online now! (http://www.breedersgroup.com) | HFSH Barter Forum (http://www.hopefulfarm.com/cgi-bin/yabb1.31/YaBB.pl)

[ahf]

Good Lord. I had no idea a horse can shed the virus for 4 months after contracting lepto.

Bernie, if it's any consolation (ok, there is no consolation when this happens) my mare bred right back - with frozen even - on the first try. But I've been watching her like a hawk ever since. I've pulled so many estrone assays this pregnancy...the mare thinks she's a blood donor and wants orange juice and a chocolate chip cookie after the vet leaves.

When a mare gets past the 5th month, I think we all usually feel like we are home free. And statistically - we really are - 94% chance of live foal after that. Not knowing will just drive you insane, I know. But if the placenta looked good - it's very possible you will never know. They'll measure the cord at the lab, and let you know if there are any signs of torsion. THe theory being that if the cord is too long, it can strangle the fetus, or if it's kinked the blood supply was cut off.

Again, I'm so very, very sorry.

[nsm]

Talloaks, and everyone who lost a foal,[or mare] my deepest sympathies, the thing about breeding is that--- the lows of this, are so low, but keep in perspective, when it's good---it's the best,and I guess that why alot of us stay in it, we lost a mare this year and it was so so horrible and sad, but the foal did live, and that is so special. My clients had a mare abort at 4 1/2 months recently, and were devastated as they have been trying to get this mare to stay bred for several tries, I keep reminding them to hang in there because one of these tries it will work and it will all have been worth it.
so again --I'm so sorry, -----Nancy

Home of the Oldenburg Stallion Ironman

[talloaks]

Well my vet was out yesterday afternoon and the mare looks good, cervix has closed so he will do the culture etc when she comes in to season again. In the meantime we will wait for the results from the lab on the fetus, and then go from there. We talked about different possilitities, and one really concerns me, and that is she could have picked up something at the inspection in mid October, or just the stress of the inspection. My vet had palpated her in Oct (and off hand I can't remember if it was before or after the inspection) and the fetus was very large compared to my other mare who is due at the same time and to the same stallion. But looking at the fetus, it was not really large, which makes one wonder if there was something that decreased her growth(as in sick) and the mare's water broke and a couple or three days later the fetus came out, fortunately all of it. We will see, but he didn't think we should have kept her on regumate, that was not the problem, so it looks as if something infected the foal-----something happened over a period of time vs a fall or kick. It should be a few more days for the results on the necropsy etc on the fetus.
Well, if something was wrong with the foal, it is better to loose her now than to have a sick foal to rush to intensive care at the equine hospital and loose anyway. This way the mare should be cleaned up and ready to breed in the spring. He will wait for the results on the fetus before taking blood tests on the mare, in the meantime she is still "typhoid Mary" and is isolated from the other in foal mare.
It is all part of the breeding process, you win some, you loose some, and some are rained out!! Isn't that a baseball quote???
In the meanwhile we will pick up and go forward and be thankful for what we have!! And stop complaining!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

"There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man." Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)

www.talloaksfarm.net (http://www.talloaksfarm.net)

[Mariesonny]

I'm so sorry for your loss! This is such an awful thing to have happen.

It happened to me a few years ago with one of my mares who was a maiden at the time. She had gotten in foal the first time she was bred as a 3 year old and about 8 months later lost the foal. It was really horrible for me as I was there when she delivered it. After she had it she just lay there very quietly on her side. I freaked out as I thought she had died too. The vet never could make a positive diagnosis of what happened to the foal. The good news is that she has since had 2 foals and is in foal with her third so best of luck to you with this year's breeding season.

www.angelfire.com/mac/evergreenfarm (http://www.angelfire.com/mac/evergreenfarm)

[Sonesta]

talloaks, after my year from hell last year, I have only just now had the nerve to open your thread and read it. I want you to know how very sorry I am for your loss. I know just how horrible it is to lose one like this.

It is so disheartening, but please do hang in there. You have produced and will produce many more lovely foals.

Sonesta Farms (http://www.sonestafarms.com) - breeding Hanoverian, Knabstrupper and Arabian sport horses.&lt;BR&gt;
"Find something you love & call it work."

[frugalannie]

My condolences to all of you who have lost foals. This is such a sad thread, and I commend you all for continuing to try to find out what went wrong, and going on with your breeding programs. Where would we all be without you?

I hope it won't upset you if I ask a question, as my mare is just approaching her 7th month. How developed is the fetus at that point? The dogs brought in some bones they had found in an unused pasture yesterday. I couldn't identify them, and assumed that it was a leftover from the coyotes. I was unable to check my mare last night, but will be looking at her tonight. She does not appear to be in any distress and actually ran out to the pasture this morning. About what size would fetal bones be at 7 months?

[Oakstable]

I know there are charts posted on web sites that show the growth of a fetus and compare it in size to common animals.

When I found Natasha's fetus, it was small enough to put in a bucket that would hold 25 lb. of supplement. My husband had it in a lawn bag. I peeked inside enough to see tiny hooves.

Raising Dynamite horses in SoCAl

[frugalannie]

Thank you, Oakstable.

[talloaks]

frugalannie, it seems to me the bones were long and slim---maybe 9 to 12 inches long for the front leg, hoof to body,----maybe sort of like a cat---althought her head was beautiful and she had a long neck. The bones would be lighter than a deer for sure and there wouldn't be any fawns out now to compare with. Maybe the bones were the thickness of your middle finger or a man's middle finger. Now I shouldn't be saying bones--because the fetus had hide and some muscle, no hair on tail, only the bone, but definitely showed the darkening around the muzzle. OOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHH!! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif Shouldn't be talking about this!!! How about the snow that is coming tomorrow---will it be PRETTY?????? Hope so!!

"There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man." Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)

www.talloaksfarm.net (http://www.talloaksfarm.net)

[Silly Mommy]

It's OK talloaks - my filly was beautiful as well, minus the hair, and the intestines being everywhere, and that perfect pinto pattern...

It really sucks, but god has his reasons. I'm not sure what these particular situations were for, but someday we will know why...

Most people who go around fanning the flames of crises are themselves the problem.


http://groups.msn.com/WolfdenFarm/shoebox.msnw

[Mariesonny]

When it happened to me I couldn't look. It was probably about the size of a German Shepard dog. All I saw was chestnut and some stockings. I couldn't look any further. Just couldn't do it. The next year I bred her to that same stallion and I did get a chestnut with stockings.

www.angelfire.com/mac/evergreenfarm (http://www.angelfire.com/mac/evergreenfarm)

[frugalannie]

I'm so sorry if my question brought you sadness, Talloaks, but your answer was very helpful. It must be so hard to see something for which we hope for so long not make it. And Sillymommy, thank you, as well. All of you will be in my thoughts tonight.

[talloaks]

well, as to be expected the preliminary report came in without any findings---everything looked normal. What can you say??? Now we have to wait for the analyis of the various tissues so that may be another week or so. In the meantime the dam is in isolation with another non-pregnant mare--getting more impatient by the day---they are such herd animals and want to be together and wonder why the "punishment" as they see it!! Oh well---so far the filly fetus was fine and healthy. Go figure?? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

"There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man." Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)

www.talloaksfarm.net (http://www.talloaksfarm.net)

[Riven]

I'm so sorry talloaks

www.rivendellfarms.ca (http://www.rivendellfarms.ca)

[arnika]

My sympathies as well, talloaks. If they don't find anything wrong at least you won't have to worry about the mare passing anything on to the others. However, it doesn't make it any easier to deal with.

[Bugs-n-Frodo]

I am sorry, that is more heartbreaking to hear than anything else. I hope the mare is ok. I am really sorry.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Amy
Owned by:
Cute as a Bugsear (Bugs) JC OTTTB (Isella x Annie Somebody)
Pippen (Frodo) ATA Anglo Trakehner (Paramoure x Cute as a Bugsear)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[talloaks]

I talked briefly with the vet at the State Lab today and he said it will be another week for the results of the tissue samples to come in BUT he did say the filly was perfectly normal and showed no signs of rhino or anything and brought up STRESS again as a cause of the abortion. He said this terrible weather could have brought it on. My girls have blankets. But I was thinking that since Ava is such a quiet agreeable mare perhaps she internalizes STRESS and therefore it would be harder on her than the girls that show their displeasure or disapproval of anything. Just a thought. So it will be interesting to see the tissue results. He did say they find an outcome about 40% of the time which is up from my personal vet who said 20% of the time!! Still the odds aren't great but I think I can rest assured that the mare can produce a good healthy foal if gone to term.

"There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man." Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)

www.talloaksfarm.net (http://www.talloaksfarm.net)

[talloaks]

For anyone who is interested in this case, I went through my vet bills and my mare was palpated infoal with a good sized fetus on Dec 3 and the abortion was Jan 17 I think!!

"There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man." Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)

www.talloaksfarm.net (http://www.talloaksfarm.net)

[race_run_jump]

I'm so sorry - it is so frustrating to not have a definitive answer. I lost my stallion last summer after a long ordeal and got very vague postmortem results. This was after the staff at the lab thought that I would really enjoy helping drag him out of the trailer and into the lab!! Gave me nightmares!!

I finally fixed my website!! Check it out at:
http://www.geocities.com/highlandglenva/HighlandGlen.html?1075309175001

[talloaks]

race_run_jump I am so sorry about your experience with your stallion---what could possibly be more horrendous??? I sure don't know why they can't come up with more answers---still waiting on our state lab, which fortunately is in town, for further results. Other than that I just don't know, and I hate that feeling!!

"There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man." Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)

www.talloaksfarm.net (http://www.talloaksfarm.net)

[ise@ssl]

Bernie -
I'm just curious why your Vet palpated the mare at 6 months? Was something wrong. Our Vet doesn't ever like to check mares that way unless we suspect the mare has slipped. He says the less "fussing" in there the better.

[artisticgold]

My black sabino Trakehner mare, Panache, just lost her 7 month old foal on Friday...No indication of any problems, just came out one morning and there was the foal, still inside the sac...very sad and depressing! I only had 2 foals coming this year, now I have just one...sigh! This is the foal I was most excited about too...

[Oakstable]

How sad, I am sorry for your loss, too.

A black sabino Trakehner, wow, I'd love to see photos your mare.

There is something about the 7 month milestone that mares lose their pregnancies. As I said earlier in this thread, I lost one last year from a mare that has been a difficult mare to get in foal.

Sally

Raising Dynamite horses in SoCAl

[talloaks]

ILona, there was nothing wrong, he was just out to give the foal some shots and decided we should check the mares to make sure they were still infoal---and they were. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif Do you think there is any correlation????

Artistic Gold--I am SO SORRY that you are going through this same horrible experience, my sincere sympathies are with you. Was your mare a maiden and of what age??? I think my mare, a 97 model, would be at the perfect age for breeding, that is another thing that makes it so confusing!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif Did you send your foal/fetus out for testing? What part of the country are you in?? Are you experiencing a cold hard winter?? or changeable weather??? I'm still confused over this!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

"There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man." Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)

www.talloaksfarm.net (http://www.talloaksfarm.net)

[ise@ssl]

Bernie -
Unless we feel the mare has slipped - as I said - our Vet just doesn't want to palpate them that late. They are usually showing the pregnancy by six months anyway - between 5 & 6 months the fetus doubles in size.

I also thought at that point you can draw blood to check if the mare if pregnant. Anyone else want to weigh in on this?

[Oakstable]

That far into the pregnancy, the mare is visibly pregnant.

When my mare aborted last spring, a vet hadn't been near her since she was inseminated.

Who knows whether the palpation was a factor. Probably not.

Raising Dynamite horses in SoCAl

[KAZOOM]

race_run_jump, are you saying your vet could not tell you exactly caused your stallion's death? How horrible and what an attitude the staff had with you. I'm just curious as to how many "cover ups" are made by (some) vets to protect themselves from possible slip ups on their parts? It seems some vets think that the public is still vastly unknowledgeable about a lot of things. I lost a foal last summer at the tender age of 2 months...from choke of all things. After reading up on practical treatment of this condition (which is rare in foals), I realized that my foal did not receive the best and proper treatment at a certain point in the experience. Of course, they deny that there was any negligence involved...and what can I do? My beautiful foal, so full of life and vigour and the start of a beautiful new life...is gone. I could have had a postmorten done, but how traumatic is that? To prove what...if only to myself that had I known better at the time, I would handled the incident differently. Why is it that we have to learn these things the hard way. Is this not what we pay the "professionals" to do for us? To make that proper decision promptly ... when time is of the essence in saving a life? To inform us of every detail possible that is happening with our affected horse? A couple of posters on this forum were right...Breeding horses can bring much pain at times, but the joy...isn't the joy just something else when we see our beautiful babies leaping for joy in the sunlight? This is how I remember my colt. He was such a happy little soul ... leaping about like a ballet dancer, graceful and elegant with so much potential. It's so hard to believe that he is gone and one poster's comment..."he is running with the angels" is exactly how I picture him now. Treasure every moment you have with your beloved mares and foals. I do....my condolences to all of you who have lost babies or anyone last year. Aborton has to be very tough.

[Policy of Truth]

I just saw this, and wanted you to know you're in my prayers...I hope 2004 gets better for you soon... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif

[azrider]

I'm so sorry- I hope your mare makes a quick recovery from her loss.

[Fred]

so sorry artisticgold and kazoom, and runracejump, how awful for you. what an ordeal to go through.
a friend just called me to say that her 7month pregnant mare just aborted her foal. Both my in foal mares have just passed 7 months, so I am watching them even more closely.. does anyone know what is happening with the fetus at this stage that makes it more fragile?. One of my vets said that perhaps the uterus has scarring that might prevent nutrients from reaching the foal at this stage.. that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.. but it would be interesting to know what is happening in terms of hormones etc in the mare, and the foal.

[artisticgold]

Talloaks...no, I didn't have the fetus sent out to be necropsied. A vet told me right out that often they don't find anything wrong, and I've heard from lots of folks that have sent the foal off for autopsy that they didn't get any answers either. We just buried the little one, and are trying to get over the sadness. Oddly enough, this mare is not a maiden, is only 14, has had two other healthy foals before I got her, and is in much better condition now than before. So, who knows why this happens??? I guess when you breed long enough, sometimes you will have unhappy endings...

[talloaks]

Well the final paperwork came back from the state vet lab and as 60 to 80% of others have found out, the results are NOTHING WAS WRONG~~~~~JUST AN ABORTION!!! Couldn't find a thing!! So now that makes me wonder---should I try breeding to the same stallion or try a different one???? I have heard from others about changing stallions and having more positive luck. Any ideas out there??? Anyone??? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

"There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man." Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)

www.talloaksfarm.net (http://www.talloaksfarm.net)

[STF]

Bernie -
I recently read that in the US and all the horse breeders in the US - they lose 1 out of 5 foals.
I dont know if this is true?! But I read it in one of the Vet Mag's.
Chances of loseing a foal or something going wrong is high, so dont let this get you down. Try again.....IMO!
LaNet

"I don't suffer from stress. I'm a carrier."


http://www.spindletopfarms.com
Breeding Only Champion Bloodlines

[STF]

I just got a newsletter from GW Ranch (Heike Albert) and she had some info Im going to post here - it pertains to what I was talking about too:

(Hope you dont get mad Heike)....

Copied from GW Ranch Newsletter:

We have also chosen to summarize an article on fertility and pregnancy rates by Dr. Teresa Dohms from the German Equestrian Federation (FN). The article appeared in The Hanoverian (No.: 2/2003) published by the Verband hannoverscher Warmblutzuchter in Verden.

The study involved 42,000 mares whose foaling dates were from 1986 to 2000 and the data was supplied by the Verband, with the following statistical results:

79.3% of the mares covered became pregnant (20.7% therefore never got in foal)

70.1% of the mares covered mares foaled out

5.2% of the mares reabsorbed

4.0% had a miscarriage

The study found that these rates were impacted by several key variables including the year of breeding; whether live cover, AI (artificial insemination) on breeding stations or AI on the farm; age; and mare management including feeding program, worming, vaccinations, etc.

Conclusions included that as mares age, the fertility rate decreases by 0.75% annually to 65.6%, while the foaling rate decreases by 1.1% per year to 51.9% at 18 years of age. AI at the farm had a fertility rate about 3.2% lower than live cover or AI at breeding stations. Mares who were in the highest category of mare management had the highest rates of fertility reaching 84%

The study concluded in general that environmental and breeder controlled variables had more influence on fertility than did genetic factors. 'It is in the control of the breeder himself, whether his breeding program produces successes.'

"I don't suffer from stress. I'm a carrier."


http://www.spindletopfarms.com
Breeding Only Champion Bloodlines

[talloaks]

Thanks STF, that is very interesting!! In 25 years of breeding this is the first time this has happened so I guess I am way ahead of the curve so it is time for me to stop worrying and fussing and get on with it!!! It is better news to find out there was nothing wrong that to find out there was a serious problem. Good Luck to all those mares carrying foals and may they all have healthy successful foalings!!

"There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man." Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)

www.talloaksfarm.net (http://www.talloaksfarm.net)

[STF]

I think the part that pisses me off the most (I worked as an Equine Vet Tech in my early 20's) is that I see alot of owners have foals in nasty, unsafe, totally incorrect situations. They dont take care of the mares as per standard, etc. - yet they have healthy foals. Then there are us, who go WAY out of our way to make sure everything is perfect, watch our mares like a hawk, feed the best feeds, supplements and best vet care we can, yet we lose them?! Go figure?!?

You just have to go with the flow, and assume it was not meant to be for some reason we cant understand.

Breed again - the chances of it happening again are slim!

Good luck,
LaNet

"I don't suffer from stress. I'm a carrier."


http://www.spindletopfarms.com
Breeding Only Champion Bloodlines

[Nikita]

So very sorry to all of you that have suffered losses. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Anybody want to tell me again, why we do this? I think I'll go hug my preggo's.

Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

[crestline]

talloaks- Two years ago we too had one abort for no reason whatsoever. The mare was a maiden so we really didn't know if we were dealing with a problem with her or not but she had settled first cover. The next year she checked out fine so we bred her, got a perfect colt on one cover and she's now settled back in foal on one cover for 2004. We figured it's a numbers game to some degree and unfortunately sometimes you just draw that unlucky card and lose one despite doing everything right by the book...nothing like a good breeding heartbreak to make us all appreciate the ones that go right. All of our breedings were to the same stallion so if all looks good with your mare I'd would not hesitate to repeat the breeding.

Cheers,

Andrea Clibborn-Anderson
www.crestlinefarm.com (http://www.crestlinefarm.com)
Home of Pinto Dutch Warmblood Palladio

[talloaks]

Crestline, that is a good thing to know. The lost filly was "exactly" what I wanted so I will try it again!!! thanks for the encouragement!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man." Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)

www.talloaksfarm.net (http://www.talloaksfarm.net)

[dray]

Bernie, Artistic Gold, Kazoom, RunRaceJump,
I am so sorry to hear of the losses. It just is so unsettling and not having a "reason" to pin it on really puts a damper onclosure.

I ahveto say that I approach my barn with cautious optimism each morning. I'm at 9 months with most mares and 7 with one.

[Twinkletozzz]

Ilona, my vet agrees with yours. The less intrusion the better and if you are worried about something the blood test will indicate whether there is a viable pregnancy. His words, not mine.

[TrakEventer]

And there's always the transabdominal fetal viability ultrasound... you can actually see the foal and the heartbeat throughout pregnancy without the risk of having to rectal the mare... blood tests can be inaccurate in that they determine that the mare is still carrying a fetus, dead or alive http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif... need to know for sure?? Definately go for an ultrasound... transabdominal!

[talloaks]

Oh you guys!! Now I am feeling guilty that I allowed the vet to palpate her!!! OHHHHHHHH! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif But the other mare as far as I know is still in foal. I hope!! I hope !! I hope!!! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

"There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man." Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)

www.talloaksfarm.net (http://www.talloaksfarm.net)

[Home Again Farm]

talloaks,

I doubt VERY much that your vet palpating at 6 months had anything at all to do with the loss. We do our final check on our mares at 5 months and have never had a problem.

As has been pointed out many times on the equine repro e-mail list, many abortions occur from 7 months on, probably because that is when the fetus is growing rapidly and when placental integrity becomes critical to survival.

You'll probably never know for sure, but don't beat yourself up about the last palpation. Hoping this season holds only good things from here on out! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

Mary Lou

http://www.homeagainfarm.com

[artisticgold]

I agree with Mary Lou...My mare was NOT palpated since early on in the pregnancy, and lost her foal anyway. So, chances are, that is NOT what caused your mare to lose her foal. There are so many reasons this can happen, and we just never know why. Don't shoulder the blame...