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View Full Version : Today: FEI Rules NO to blood rule proposal



rodawn
Oct. 19, 2011, 03:34 PM
http://www.fei.org/sites/default/files/file/Dressage_blood%20rule_19%20October%202011.pdf

At higher levels, there is still some extenuating circumstances where the test is stopped upon sight of blood, but allows times for the attending veterinarian to investigate.

shawneeAcres
Oct. 19, 2011, 03:37 PM
I find this extremely disturbing. If I have a horse with a tiny nick, or god forbid a FLY BITE which causes blood, I am going to be STOPPED and told to LEAVE the arena? Are the people stopping me going to pay for my test, stabling, gas to haul to the show etc? Ridiculous and just another example of how "overboard" we have gone in the horse world!!

flyracing
Oct. 19, 2011, 03:40 PM
So it did pass, just only for higher stake competitions? That makes sense. "Small" fei shows may struggle more to have the fei vet near to the ring at all times and the "cost" of auto-elimination is much lower than say when you travel across an ocean for a world championship.

rodawn
Oct. 19, 2011, 03:42 PM
Fly bites do not cause gobs of blood to drip from a horse's mouth. The current proposed discussion directly deals with the amount of blood one sees in a horse's mouth. Blood specked foam due to a bit pinch is one thing. Blood stained teeth, lips and dripping blood are quite another.

flyracing
Oct. 19, 2011, 03:45 PM
I find this extremely disturbing. If I have a horse with a tiny nick, or god forbid a FLY BITE which causes blood, I am going to be STOPPED and told to LEAVE the arena? Are the people stopping me going to pay for my test, stabling, gas to haul to the show etc? Ridiculous and just another example of how "overboard" we have gone in the horse world!!



I agree and hope they shortly write something in to include "under 1 cm" non-dripping blood spots that are not in the area of any tack or the rider's body (spurs). It could be evaluated after the test is concluded to determine there was no way it was caused in any way by riding the horse.

flyracing
Oct. 19, 2011, 03:48 PM
Fly bites do not cause gobs of blood to drip from a horse's mouth. The current proposed discussion directly deals with the amount of blood one sees in a horse's mouth. Blood specked foam due to a bit pinch is one thing. Blood stained teeth, lips and dripping blood are quite another.

The report you linked specifically says "anywhere on the horse's body. It is not limited to the mouth even if that is the first big public display that brought this to life.

alto
Oct. 19, 2011, 03:52 PM
I find this extremely disturbing. If I have a horse with a tiny nick, or god forbid a FLY BITE which causes blood, I am going to be STOPPED and told to LEAVE the arena? Are the people stopping me going to pay for my test, stabling, gas to haul to the show etc? Ridiculous and just another example of how "overboard" we have gone in the horse world!!

No, correct procedure is to notify officials before you ride & have your horse assessed - & passed for absurdities such as this.

As for expenses, this is no different than if you arrived at the showgrounds & your horse walked off the trailer lame, or took a wrong step during warmup ...

If you want a guaranteed return for your entertainment money, go to a movie, if you don't like it in the first quarter, you can get your money back.

shawneeAcres
Oct. 19, 2011, 03:52 PM
Blood coming from the horses mouth, or from the sides where the spurs are is QUITE a bit different than a small nick from a bump, or other small but TOTALLY insignificant injury that has no bearing on the horses ability to perform! I am sorry but these are animals, how often have you, a human animal, gotten a small nick that bled for 5 minutes and then was totally fine?? This is going OVERBOARD as usual from horse people!

shawneeAcres
Oct. 19, 2011, 03:55 PM
No, correct procedure is to notify officials before you ride & have your horse assessed - & passed for absurdities such as this.

As for expenses, this is no different than if you arrived at the showgrounds & your horse walked off the trailer lame, or took a wrong step during warmup ...

If you want a guaranteed return for your entertainment money, go to a movie, if you don't like it in the first quarter, you can get your money back.

Exactly where does it say hat you can have a horse examined and "passed"?? Yes, things can and do happen, but I don't think it is up to someone to arbitrarily make a decision "for me", unless the horse is VISIBLY in pain, EXCESSIVE bleeding, etc.

rodawn
Oct. 19, 2011, 04:13 PM
The report you linked specifically says "anywhere on the horse's body. It is not limited to the mouth even if that is the first big public display that brought this to life.

I know full well what the article said. Whip welts, bloody sides from spurs, blood from the nasal passages or lungs, or dripping from the mouth, it all points to the very simple fact the horse is injured enough to not be fit for riding.

Seriously, if at GP level a rider needs to gouge the horse with spurs so hard it breaks his skin, then it's the rider's temper firing up. As a breeder of high-end dressage horses I will not allow any trainer to gouge my horses with spurs like this, nor will I allow them to reef on their mouths. I've ridden at the GP, I KNOW what it takes to get there. I also know that many things that are done these days to get horses to GP younger and faster are absurdly disgraceful.

There is going to be much more discussion around the FEI about defining the rule so that it makes more common sense. There is quite a difference to a small scratch or a bug bite and the kind of blood flow that points to the most serious accusations of abuse. I aim my bullets at abuse, not explainable happenstance life circumstances.

Equibrit
Oct. 19, 2011, 05:32 PM
http://www.fei.org/sites/default/fil...ber%202011.pdf
"The FEI Dressage Committee has presented this proposed rule to all National Federations. The Committee has also made National Federations aware of the views of the International Dressage Riders Club, International Dressage Officials Club, the Association of International Dressage Event Organisers and other parties on this proposed rule.
The National Federations are currently reviewing the proposal.
As always, proposed rules revisions are presented for National Federation approval at the FEI General Assembly for implementation on 1 January the following year."

No decision yet.

rodawn
Oct. 19, 2011, 06:08 PM
No, no ruling, I didn't state that? Oh, on reading my original post, it is missing key punctuation: It should say: Today: FEI Rules: NO to blood, rule proposal. There's only so much space in those subject lines. They have modified the proposal considerably over the past few months and will need more input and discussion before they make the final decision in January - they must precisely define what makes acceptable blood and what is blood due to possible abuse tactics. It's the abuse I'm gunning for (like most of us) and they need to be very, very clear on it and ensure they get it right the first time so it doesn't open the door to dubious training methodologies. Carte blanche, in either direction, is incorrect too, but the definitions need to be made and made correctly, since decisions take an overwhelming amount of time to get changed if they turn up wrong or insufficient. Like the definition, the subsequent range of penalties also needs to be discussed and decided upon.

Shawnee thinking more on what you stated and your point raised, you may find, once the FEI finally gets their definitions down as to what constitutes an elimination versus checkup, that the national equestrian federations will follow suit and mimic their rules to be similar. Equine Canada tends to follow FEI rules very closely, does not the USEF too?

Equibrit
Oct. 19, 2011, 06:32 PM
ALSO;
Protective headgear

In the wake of Courtney Dye King's tragic accident, the FEI Medical Committee has recommended making protective headgear mandatory across all disciplines when riding at show grounds outside competition arenas.

At its meeting, the Dressage Committee discussed making protective headgear mandatory everywhere on the showgrounds except during competition and warm-up prior to competition, and except for athletes under 18 and in Young Horse classes where it would be mandatory everywhere including during the test.

A draft rule will go forward to the General Assembly for approval and implementation on 1 January 2012

shawneeAcres
Oct. 19, 2011, 06:48 PM
Let me give you an example of something that happened to my stallion (at home, mind you not a show). A few years ago my working student was riding him, when all of a sudden she noticed blood flying back from his face. She stopped immediately and saw a small nick on his nostril bleeding profusely. Before she had ridden him, he had rubbed his nose on his boots on front legs. There was a small split i the boot and it had nicked his nostril. Naturally, if I had been at a show and that happened people would have assumed his mouth was bleeding, and altho the small cut bled ALOT the first fifteen minutes, he was absolutely fine and actually in no pain whatsoever. It is incidents like this that could potentially cost a competitor alot of money as well as time, should they have worked very hard to get to a large dressage show/championships etc. This was a totally insignificant nick but would have definitely "eliminated" him from competition. Is that right?? I defintely do NOT want to see blood in horses mouth, on sides in any way showing either "abuse" or rough handling, or a significant injury that should keep the horse on he sidelines, allowed to continue. But I think more thought than just "blood" should go into such a ruling. Otherwise, the FEI may be up for some lawsuits in the future from disgruntled riders that are eliminated for insignificant "blood".

Equibrit
Oct. 19, 2011, 06:56 PM
But I think more thought than just "blood" should go into such a ruling. Otherwise, the FEI may be up for some lawsuits in the future from disgruntled riders that are eliminated for insignificant "blood".

That is presumably, why the FEI are proposing that a vet may OK the horse for competition.

shawneeAcres
Oct. 19, 2011, 07:07 PM
That is presumably, why the FEI are proposing that a vet may OK the horse for competition.

But what the proposal says is "ONLY AT THE TOP LEVELS OF COMPETITION". So if I go and show my horse second level and he has a small bleeding nick, flybite or whatever, the judge can say "outta here" with no veterinary involvment.

Velvet
Oct. 19, 2011, 07:26 PM
shawnee,

The FEI rules are ONLY for the upper levels and at FEI events. For your lower level horses and rules, check the USEF rule book. If you have a problem with those rules, go straight to the USEF.

Carol Ames
Oct. 19, 2011, 07:33 PM
WE do not need to give the humaniacs more fuel for their campaigns,:no: imagine a photo of a horse bleeding:eek: on one of their posters:o.

Carol Ames
Oct. 19, 2011, 07:37 PM
there has long been an unwritten rule in dressage that ANY BLOOD:eek: calls for Elimination:yes:

Carol Ames
Oct. 19, 2011, 07:43 PM
RIGHT ON1





ALSO;
Protective headgear

In the wake of Courtney Dye King's tragic accident, the FEI Medical Committee has recommended making protective headgear mandatory across all disciplines when riding at show grounds outside competition arenas.

At its meeting, the Dressage Committee discussed making protective headgear mandatory everywhere on the showgrounds except during competition and warm-up prior to competition, and except for athletes under 18 and in Young Horse classes where it would be mandatory everywhere including during the test.

A draft rule will go forward to the General Assembly for approval and implementation on 1 January 2012

BaroquePony
Oct. 19, 2011, 08:02 PM
Honestly, if you cannot ride and train a horse without putting welts on it, leaving bloody spur marks or causing bleeding from the mouth, you are not a good trainer or rider ... especially if you are talking about dressage.

shawneeAcres
Oct. 19, 2011, 08:54 PM
shawnee,

The FEI rules are ONLY for the upper levels and at FEI events. For your lower level horses and rules, check the USEF rule book. If you have a problem with those rules, go straight to the USEF.

I am thinking this will "trickle down" to USEF eventually. I too don't want abuse but I want rule makers to be realistic