PDA

View Full Version : Sign the NO BLOOD RULE petition



BetterOffRed
Oct. 16, 2011, 12:53 AM
http://no-fei.com/

background:
Press Release of the FEI/Pressemitteilung der FEI, 23. Juni 2011

The FEI Dressage Committee discussed several issues at its meeting in Paris (FRA) earlier this month and the following five key developments were decided upon.

“Blood rule
The committee proposed a new blood rule explicitly stating that the test would be stopped if blood appears anywhere on the horse.
At top level events (Olympic Games, Championships and Finals for seniors), where FEI vets will be present at the warm-up arena, they would examine the horse and the test would resume if bleeding from minor injuries had stopped.
If the bleeding had not stopped, the horse would be eliminated. Where vets are not present to examine the horse, bleeding would result in immediate elimination.
The FEI’s Vet Committee and Legal Department are considering the proposal for this rule, which would sit in Article 430.7.1. or Article 440 of the Rules for Dressage Events, which can be viewed here.
As always, rule revisions will be presented for National Federation approval at the FEI General Assembly in November for implementation on 1 January 2012.

Petstorejunkie
Oct. 16, 2011, 08:49 AM
how is that different from how it reads now :confused:

Equibrit
Oct. 16, 2011, 12:23 PM
Page 45.

http://www.horsesport.org/sites/default/files/file/DISCIPLINES/DRESSAGE/Rules/RULES_DRESSAGE_2011_BLACK-VERSION_web.pdf



Old rule; Blood = elimination

New rule; blood = vet can look and decide if it's OK.

flyracing
Oct. 16, 2011, 05:59 PM
Page 45.

http://www.horsesport.org/sites/default/files/file/DISCIPLINES/DRESSAGE/Rules/RULES_DRESSAGE_2011_BLACK-VERSION_web.pdf



Old rule; Blood = elimination

New rule; blood = vet can look and decide if it's OK.

In that case, it seems to be an improvement (not elimination for all cases), but still seems too strict. If my horse nicks himself (on the white sock let of course) at the fetlock which requires nothing more than some ointment and now has a speck of blood on the white sock, it must "stop bleeding" before the vet can get from it's station to the ring (under a minute?) Nothing will stop bleeding that quickly, the wet blood won't be dry.

Granted I would hope you wouldn't be stopped for such a minor nick, but the way the rule is written there, it sound like they would have to.

HoofHeartSoul
Oct. 16, 2011, 06:23 PM
we all were talking about this today. i think blood should = elimination.

it would not be fair to the other riders in the warmup to either prolong their warmup and delay their ride while a vet checks the horse and decided if the rider is allowed to ride or not.. it would mess all the schedule up.

or

if they permitted the bloodied horse and rider to ride LAST after all the other compeititors than that would be better. but then bloodied rider would have to wait around after already warming up to do the test...THEN have to warmup again!

it think they should stick to the old rule. any blood=elimination. that is just me. i understand if it is a minor knick but that would have to be the way it goes. ... why would they want to make all the other riders wait around??

seems silly.

MagicRoseFarm
Oct. 16, 2011, 06:40 PM
I read this new rule as more FAIR to riders and horses who have spent years training correctly, not to be eliminated over something ridiculous, whereas the current rule is inflexible.

SnicklefritzG
Oct. 16, 2011, 08:44 PM
I think elimination for any appearance of blood without further investigation/discussion is ridiculous. It is entirely possible as others have said for a horse to nick itself kind of like a human version of a papercut. What about someone who spent $$$$ in training, travel, etc. to get to the show only to be eliminated for something that silly?

I imagine a lot of people would prefer to be put at the end (@HHF) if they were the one that had the blood problem with their horse. I think it sounds a lot better for that one person to have to warm up again as opposed to being eliminated altogther.

Petstorejunkie
Oct. 16, 2011, 09:56 PM
it's possible blood on a horse isn't it's own too!
went out one day to fetch my horse, and there was blood on his leg. I proceeded to have a mild internal freakout while searching for a wound. It wasn't until an hour later when I saw his buddy had managed to give himself a bloody nose that the mystery of the invisible bloody wound was solved.
Multiple horses are moving about in the warmup together. It's entirely possible for blood from one to sling off and hit another.

plus, I'm sure there are some dirty sheisters out there that would/could frame a horse with blood to cause elimination under the current rule if they had an un attended moment alone with the horse.

SnicklefritzG
Oct. 16, 2011, 10:30 PM
^^^ yeah, totally. How did that strict rule get there in the first place? Did not those people think about such possibilities at the time?

onelove
Oct. 16, 2011, 11:55 PM
I was lurking on here and saw the thread. I have to say that I think that the rule is acceptable in that it is meant to protect the horse . It is to allow a vet to check the horse to make sure that the obvious blood is not coming from something more severe than a nick. Blood spatters and I think it is great that they rewrote the rule to allow someone to continue to ride. Yes it is an inconvenience but really, if the blood was coming from more than a nick, I think anyone would be grateful to get checked. And even if it is just a nick, allowing the opportunity to continue the ride is great because of the money and time involved. A much better solution than just elimination. If I were competing, I would rather that the horse in the ring get checked and wait than to see them get eliminated after all the effort they also put in. Yes waiting sucks but really, the horse who may be injured even with just a papercut is more important and that's what the rule IMO saying.

summerhorse
Oct. 16, 2011, 11:58 PM
I think it is sad that such a rule ever had to be made in the first place!

suzy
Oct. 17, 2011, 09:14 AM
In that case, it seems to be an improvement (not elimination for all cases), but still seems too strict. If my horse nicks himself (on the white sock let of course) at the fetlock which requires nothing more than some ointment and now has a speck of blood on the white sock, it must "stop bleeding" before the vet can get from it's station to the ring (under a minute?) Nothing will stop bleeding that quickly, the wet blood won't be dry.


This may be a case of interpretation. Perhaps they mean that if the bleeding is not excessive and stops when pressure is applied. I think they are going to have to be more specific and make some edits to the rule because you are right that no bleeding is going to stop instantly. I got a tiny nick on my finger yesterday, and it took about 2 minutes of holding pressure on it to make it stop. However, there was no pain, and I could carry on with what I was doing. This is going to be tricky because it will involve judgment calls that may get some people fired up.

eurodressage
Oct. 17, 2011, 10:04 AM
The new, proposed rule is impossible to execute (what if the FEI Vet is far from the arena, any blood would have dried if he gets there, or wiped away by grooms/trainers. What if it happens to the last horse? Shall the entire competition be postponed? How much time for a re-run?). Furthermore the rule is only for the elite GP riders at major championships? This is totally unfair. Why do they get a second chance while for instance Pan Am riders, or junior young riders at the North American Championships would get eliminated.

Also, how will this reflect on the world that equestrian sport is a sport which tolerates blood on a horse? The image of the sport will be negative as a blood sport.

Very often bleeding from the mouth is a training issue (not always). Tight nosebands, much bit pressure, internal stress in the horse...

This is not the way for dressage to go!!

More info read here:
http://www.eurodressage.com/equestrian/2011/10/13/dressage-become-blood-sport

Emy
Oct. 17, 2011, 10:50 AM
I have to agree with Eurodressage about the mouth bleeding.
It is generally the horses who are unsettled in their mouth and contact, often straining against tight nosebands who generally (not always) have blood in the mouth. The horses who quietly accept their bit rarely inadvertently bite their tongues or have lip/gum rub’s. The horses who are ridden with maximum pressure are often unsettled and busy with their mouths as a sign of stress, as a result they can often nip their tongues or cause rubs on their lip and gums from leaning into the heavy contact.

Bleeding/agitated red sides from spur marks are inexcusable. Yes, sometimes when they are freshly clipped the hair follicles can become aggravated but if this is your argument, don’t clip right before a show.

That said, as some have mentioned, there are special cases and horses can do some weird things. In Wellington this past winter at a CDI our stallion Sandro's Heir was playing with his stall mate over the wall, feeding him hay and licking his face (don‘t ask!). The other horse got annoyed and bit down on his tongue, actually puncturing through it in a spot causing him to start bleeding heavily from it, about 50 minutes before the test. We found the FEI vet, explained the situation, had him examined and were cleared to compete as the bleeding did stop and did not resume while he was being ridden; he competed well. The vet could actually see the other horses teeth marks in a reverse semi-circle in a way “proving” Sandro had not bitten his own tongue. It would have been unfortunate to lose the hefty CDI entry fees but we would not have wanted him to compete with blood in his mouth either.

Some have mentioned cast off blood or other strange situations, from our own experience of an "innocent" blood situation, the FEI vet was already more than happy to work with us.

heronponie
Oct. 17, 2011, 11:42 AM
It is a slippery slope.

As a competitor, I will gladly take the risk that I may be eliminated if my horse nicks itself in the warmup ring. It is worth it to me, if it means the same rule will also get in the way of the trainer whose horse is bleeding from abusive hands or spurs.

An injured horse should not be competing. I don't care how small the injury is. What's next, allowing lame horses? So long as he's not falling down, a little limp is fine..

HoofHeartSoul
Oct. 17, 2011, 11:53 AM
It is a slippery slope.

As a competitor, I will gladly take the risk that I may be eliminated if my horse nicks itself in the warmup ring. It is worth it to me, if it means the same rule will also get in the way of the trainer whose horse is bleeding from abusive hands or spurs.

An injured horse should not be competing. I don't care how small the injury is. What's next, allowing lame horses? So long as he's not falling down, a little limp is fine..

I agree! First it's the Bute (low levels being allowed) then it is the Blood rule...next it will be grade 1 lame horses are able to compete.

just unfair and rider greed.

this rule will allow riders who have spur marked their horses or ripping at their horses mouth to compete if the injury is minor... ( it will allow these riders a way out of their harshness and still be allowed to compete!)

the rule doesn't even state unless determined to be caused by rider brutality or anything like that....it just says if it is minor allowed to compete...(no matter what caused it??)

most stewards and TD's are intimidated by BNT's anyway.

:(

flamenco horse
Oct. 18, 2011, 06:40 PM
The IALHA had their annual show last week in Ft. Worth. I always look forward to the pictures of the dressage portion from the event but this year there was one picture which stood out. While it wasn't actually during any of the classes and was an exhibition, the horse's side was bloodied from the spur to the point a person could see it from a mile away yet people are defending this action as an "accident." The facility who put on the exhibition has loosely apologized but defends their rider stating it was only a little blood which was transferred across the body from the spur and the horse was fine.

Interestingly the show management did nothing to prevent the public from witnessing what I consider to be a rather blatant disregard for the horse and their viewing public. The stable did nothing to pull the horse prior to entering the exhibition. While all these rules which are being discussed apply to competition and not necessarily an exhibition given at a sanctioned competition, I still find it curious that absolutely nothing was done and further discovered the IALHA has disconnected the link for contact information on their own website. They do, however, have a FB page where there is a lengthy discussion taking place. The same is true of the training facility, The Haras Dos Cavaleiros.

http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2881733290092713508lXHFLj

I was so disappointed with the way this was handled, or should I say not handled. Which begs to question where one draws the line in the sand?

out west
Oct. 18, 2011, 07:23 PM
I hope, but don't expect common sense to rule. I was in a near panic when my grey got bitten by a large horse fly and bled! It was in a place that wouldn't be misinterpreted, fortunately it stopped and I was able to clean it up before competing, but I would be upset to lose entries from a horse fly. By the way he was coated in fly spray, but those little buggers have become addicted to fly spray in my opinion!

netg
Oct. 18, 2011, 07:57 PM
Even if it's a tiny spot from an insect bite which spread - that picture is horrifying!

I wouldn't say abuse, as I can't know what happened from that photo - I don't think you see raw skin w/ obvious spur digs in it anywhere? But blood covering that much of the side is just disturbing.


I have a horse who gets very minimal nose bleeds in super dry weather. I still support elimination for blood. Of course some extent of common sense should take part, even if it means it's likely that rule will work against me sometime.

SisterToSoreFoot
Oct. 18, 2011, 09:49 PM
A lot of hubbub about this rule, but there's a totally simple solution:

Stick to showing blood bay horses! Blood is almost impossible to spot on a deep reddish bay as long as you keep it off the white saddle pad! I basically have to sweat scrape all the blood off my horse after using, um, "active aids," but no one is the wiser! That woman's mistake in the pic was riding a gray!


Haha, just joking. Carry on.