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View Full Version : Stubben,CWD,Childeric,Prestige or County?



Halfling
Oct. 7, 2011, 05:44 PM
So I am looking at a dressage saddle for my very wide short backed 4 year old mare with uneven shoulders that is a tad downhill though she doesn't ride that way. I am looking at County, CWD, Stubben, Childeric and the Prestige D1. I'd love to hear feedback from anyone who has or has had one of these brands of dressage saddles. I've tried a Sommer, Hennig and Schleese to no avail. The horse is the Princess and the Pea. Any information would be much appreciated. Thanks!

SnicklefritzG
Oct. 7, 2011, 05:54 PM
I'm going through similar issues with my young mare albeit with different fitting issues.

In researching the brands, my advice would be to find out as much as you can about what it is like doing business with the companies and/or the saddle fitters in your area. Ultimately that may have a lot to say about your shopping experience.

What works well for some people might not work for you due to differences in the horses' shapes. For example, I tried the Schleese on my horse and they worked amazingly well, but none of the Counties worked and I tried 4+ models.

I'm surprised that none of the last three you mentioned ended up working for your horse. Those companies seem to pride themselves on being able to fit most horses. What was the problem?

Halfling
Oct. 7, 2011, 06:05 PM
The Sommer and Hennig I tried were too tight in the shoulders. They also did not have enough room for my long thigh. Any wider though and the saddle would tip downhill. I am sure Hennig could make me a custom saddle but I am not willing to risk $6300.00 to have it not be right.

candysgirl
Oct. 7, 2011, 06:30 PM
My short backed, wide Arab wears a Stubben Aramis with a 32cm tree. You can pick inexpensive ones on eBay. Both of my Stubbens were around $300 on eBay and Craigslist. They're both 10-15 years old, but perfectly usable.

LTLFLDF
Oct. 7, 2011, 07:22 PM
Have you considered a Bruno Delgrange?

http://www.selledelgrange.com/sellesetaccessoires-ficheproduit.php5?id=16

http://www.selledelgrange.com/sellesetaccessoires-ficheproduit.php5?id=15

Hampton Bay
Oct. 7, 2011, 07:31 PM
I would contact someone like Equestrian Imports of Trumbull Mountain and ask their advice if you don't have a good local fitter. It's going to be hard for anyone on this board to tell you what will fit your horse, especially without pics.

Tasker
Oct. 7, 2011, 08:39 PM
I have a brand new Stubben Genesis Special D. *does happy dance* It's been here for exactly 7 days tomorrow and I can not say enough good things about this saddle! I'll get new photos of my horses in it tomorrow & post those if you want but I highly recommend having Stubben send a rep/saddle fitter out to your barn and seeing what your options may be.

FWIW - I am a minimalist when it comes to saddles and am thrilled to be free of the thigh blocks/over stuffed saddle feeling. But that is just me. For what I'm doing - the saddle puts my hips in the absolute perfect 'sweet spot' on their backs - no more fighting the saddle to keep in balance with horse or bracing to stay with the bigger movers. My horses have totally done an amazing shift in their way of going. Every one that has gone it in it so far has developed a huge, panther-like walk with tons of undulation in their backs. :) But they were all measured and this saddle fits with a shim here and a shim there to 'customize' it individually. I believe there are more options than I chose to go with - this saddle has to fit several until I get another saddle.

But that all being said, I have received lots of instruction and constant coaching of how to ride in this saddle! So the improvements have taken a lot of reminders from the ground to not fall into my old habits and bad instincts.

OP - if you are at all local to our place, please feel free to drop me a note and I'm happy to let you ride in mine to see if you like it. Or if you want more info/opinion/feedback - obviously I am happy to talk about it! :D

These photos are from the first morning, first ride on my Weltmeyer - who is a bit on the bouncy side! :winkgrin: I tried this saddle back in June and actually riding him in it was what sealed the 'I have to have this saddle' feeling. I never would have made the change otherwise. (I'm a skeptic and more than a little cynical when someone says a saddle will change everything - but very happy to have been wrong in this case! :) )

Good luck with whatever you decide to do!

mbm
Oct. 7, 2011, 09:25 PM
I have a brand new Stubben Genesis Special D. *does happy dance* It's been here for exactly 7 days tomorrow and I can not say enough good things about this saddle! !


ooohhhh lucky you! that is my dream saddle and what i hope to get in the next couple years..... loved my old Tristen and it is great to see a minimalist saddle on the market again!

Tasker
Oct. 7, 2011, 09:33 PM
Thanks mbm! I literally pinch myself when I get on each horse! :) It is so awesome to be so close to the horses' backs!!!!! My old saddles are close but just not quite the same. I feel terrible for my mom and our working students as they are stuck with the old saddles! But I did pick up 2 ancient Tristans to get over the hump of waiting for this saddle come in over the summer. They are close to the same feeling but the new BioMex is fantabulous on the broken bits that are my tail bone! :yes:

3Spots
Oct. 7, 2011, 10:08 PM
I have the same saddle (but did not get nut-colored panels) and I share your same happy dance. I almost bought a used Schleese LinkII -- but while waiting for one to come on market, I tried a Stubben Maestoso -- and voila, fell in love. Brought in the Stubben saddle fitter and preferred the Special even more.

I love the close feeling and I actually feel more secure in it, not less. My trail mare goes goes down hills a lot easier in it -- I think because it keeps me better balanced.


jan

MelantheLLC
Oct. 7, 2011, 10:37 PM
my very wide short backed 4 year old mare with uneven shoulders

My guy with bulldog shoulders, wide, short back just loves his Lovatt & Ricketts Ellipse which has a hoop tree. I like it too, although it takes some getting used to.

Trumbell Mtn carries L&R. They also have a standard tree but recommend the hoop tree for wide horses that are difficult to fit.

not again
Oct. 8, 2011, 08:18 AM
Love Stubben for a short backed horse but also Ortho-Flex and American -Flex for horses with all the issues you describe. PM me if you want more information.

Alinera2
Oct. 8, 2011, 08:35 AM
Just ordered a Stubben Genesis Special D for my short backed GRP. Couldn't believe how much freer & more forward he was in that than my custom Hennig. I'm counting the days till it arrives. I didn't see any used on ebay when I went looking, so I bit the bullet & went new. Plan on selling the Hennig to cover the cost of the Stubben! The Stubben rep helped me figure out the size, a 29 & he's not exactly a narrow type. That was also the size for my friend's 18 hand big guy. Go figure!

mbm
Oct. 8, 2011, 12:21 PM
Thanks mbm! I literally pinch myself when I get on each horse! :) It is so awesome to be so close to the horses' backs!!!!! My old saddles are close but just not quite the same. I feel terrible for my mom and our working students as they are stuck with the old saddles! But I did pick up 2 ancient Tristans to get over the hump of waiting for this saddle come in over the summer. They are close to the same feeling but the new BioMex is fantabulous on the broken bits that are my tail bone! :yes:

i am looking for a Tristan now (wish i hadn't sold the one i bought new - oh a coons age ago :) )

any idea what width a 15h flat withered 3 yo would take?

his withers are shaped like this )

right now he is a XW JRD.... but i want more minimalist --- you are a v v lucky girl!

Tasker
Oct. 8, 2011, 01:19 PM
i am looking for a Tristan now (wish i hadn't sold the one i bought new - oh a coons age ago :) )

any idea what width a 15h flat withered 3 yo would take?

his withers are shaped like this )

right now he is a XW JRD.... but i want more minimalist --- you are a v v lucky girl!

I am very lucky indeed!!! :D

What we use on the youngsters (for the first 2-4 years as riding horses) is an American/Ortho Flex saddle - it changes automatically, they love them and we don't have to spend a fortune having them refitted constantly. Plus with so many babies it is nice to choose between 1 or 2 dressage saddles and know that they will fit both me and the horses. They are all different shapes, widths and sizes, so until we're sure what they will fit in - they get to practice sharing. I'm not in a position to buy each horse their own saddle which might not fit in 6 months. When they are ready to advance towards real collection (half pass, collected canter, etc), they get the Tristan. When we're talking pirouettes, piaffe and passage and counting changes - they'll get to have the Genesis Special. I can't afford to have multiple GSD's (and God forbid I damage the one I have) so I have to 'save' it for the big movers and for showing. :sigh: Our tackroom is overflowing at the moment but they are all happy, so that is what counts, right?

Photos L-R of the Weltmeyer as a 4 year old in an AF Classic Dressage, a 6 year old in an AF Dressage and then a 5 year old in the Tristan I picked up. It is a 1/2" too small for me (looks fine with my coat on) but with some shims added fits him fine.

Hope that helps!

mbm
Oct. 8, 2011, 01:40 PM
thanks! i am going on a saddle mission today - we shall see what i find :)

(and if you are looking to "rehome" any of the overflowing saddles please feel free to let me know lol!))

oldernewbie
Oct. 8, 2011, 11:13 PM
Love, love love it. I always feel in perfect balance when I ride in it. Horse loves it. Horse was a beast to fit - name all the saddles made for wide backed big shouldered horses and we had tried them to no avail. The Childeric was an accident really - someone in my barn had it, was getting out of showing, and had it for sale. I tried it as a WTH last resort kind of thing.

Did I tell you that I love this saddle? :lol:

Eireamon
Oct. 9, 2011, 02:22 AM
I had a mare who sounds very like yours. Shortbacked, wide shoulders.
I tried so many saddles to no avail and finally found the wide (32cm) Niedersuss Hippostar fitted the bill perfectly.

mbm
Oct. 9, 2011, 12:28 PM
I had a mare who sounds very like yours. Shortbacked, wide shoulders.
I tried so many saddles to no avail and finally found the wide (32cm) Niedersuss Hippostar fitted the bill perfectly.

how do you know if it is a 32cm? they stamp MK WK etc on their saddles to denote width?

also, same question for Stubbens - how can you tell the width?

Tasker
Oct. 9, 2011, 01:47 PM
On the older Tristans we picked up there is a stamp on the right hand girth billet cover/flap with the serial # and tree width.

You might want to talk to Stubben if you go that route as my guys (or most of them at least) fit beautifully in a 29 in the GSD. When I picked up the old saddles, they recommended getting a 30. FWIW.

Maude
Oct. 10, 2011, 10:51 AM
Tasker, I have a Stubben Genesis D with deluxe leather on trial now. It's not the Special, but is very close contact. It's a 17.5/32 and I'm sure I need an 18". My young mare likes this better than anything else I've had on her. So, I too am biting the bullet and probably ordering a new Stubben. How did you decide which saddle to get? Did you try the regular Genesis D? Love the biomex so I will get that. Unfortunately, I don't have anything else to ride her in if I have to special order a saddle. I have an old Tristan (got my Bronze Medal and my 4th Level scores for my Silver in it), but it doesn't fit my mare even with shims and padding. It is probably 35-40 years old; when Stubbens were still made in Germany. Any insight will be helpful. :)

Callaway
Oct. 10, 2011, 12:31 PM
I like CWD and Prestige

HollysHobbies
Oct. 10, 2011, 01:30 PM
I've owned a lot of saddles over the years, so I'll share my thoughts and hopefully something is helpful to you.

My Prestige fit my off track TB very will. He was sizeable for a tb with a big wither that kept saddles naturally back off his shoulder. He moved beautifully in it (it was actually flair flocked) and it was comfortable for me (I took him to 2nd level). Fairly steep rise (crotch wise) and a medium twist (for me). I had the 17"-17.5", 34 cm (mw)

Luc Childeric was a medium twist and pretty hard in the seat, but good positioning and I rode in one for 7 years. I had the Standard size and sold it b/c the horse was really a wide. It fit various thoroughbreds and an oddly fit 1/2 andalusian I tried. The older ones have leather that's super slick, but I think they are buffalo now. Foam flocked, so you can't adjust the flocking unless you get it reflocked with wool ($300).

I like the balance of stubbens for me...I tried a maestoso 32 (wide) and owned an avalon 32 cm wide. I find the older stubben leather to be really slippery. On my morgan with a flat back and no wither, the maestoso felt ike it was REALLY flexing at her canter...it was pretty strange feeling for me, but she wasn't objecting. On my warmblood with a curvy back, big wither, forward girth channel, it crept up onto his withers in 5 strides. So, they were a no go. I tried to like them. Hard seat but narrow twist and correct balance. Rise not too steep.

I had a 22 year old County WB for a long time. I also tried a County Competitor 2000 and a County Perfection. The WB has a curvy tree and fit my curvy backed warmblood (with some padding efforts on my part) and we rode through forth in that old thing! But the rise on the Counties is just to steep for me and I was starting to be in pain. Scratch that, I was in major pain. I loved the narrow twist and the balance.

I now have a Custom VLX extra wide tree for my warmblood and a Custom Wolfgang short block for my morgan. I'm happy with both, although I've only had the VLX for about a week.

Tasker
Oct. 10, 2011, 02:20 PM
Tasker, I have a Stubben Genesis D with deluxe leather on trial now. It's not the Special, but is very close contact. It's a 17.5/32 and I'm sure I need an 18". My young mare likes this better than anything else I've had on her. So, I too am biting the bullet and probably ordering a new Stubben. How did you decide which saddle to get? Did you try the regular Genesis D? Love the biomex so I will get that. Unfortunately, I don't have anything else to ride her in if I have to special order a saddle. I have an old Tristan (got my Bronze Medal and my 4th Level scores for my Silver in it), but it doesn't fit my mare even with shims and padding. It is probably 35-40 years old; when Stubbens were still made in Germany. Any insight will be helpful. :)

Hey Maude - Please please please come over on Thursday morning. We will have the Stubben rep here, bring your girl if you like or you can sit on one of our guys. I'll pop him a note and ask him to bring more saddles. Just let me know what seat size/width/model and hopefully he'll stuff his truck and then you can sit in what might suit. If Thursday doesn't work, you are more than welcome to come over and try mine.

The reason I got a Stubben GSD was because I did a clinic with Catherine back in June and could finally sit the big Weltmeyer trot on my guy. And I mean really SIT. Ditto his big roll-y canter. Now we're fine tuning the piaffe/passage and working pirouettes 10 days after getting the saddle, so I'm pleased as punch to go see Catherine again next week. The tree and thigh blocking is different in the 2 saddles I think - but Catherine told me from the beginning to go with the GSD, so I listened to the boss lady and couldn't be happier. I got to ride in one of her saddles at the beginning of August and can't wait for mine to break in - there is a huge different between brand new and well used! But I did ride in 3 brand spanking new GDSs before mine arrived - 2 in clinics and then once when the saddle fitter was here for my guys.

But please, come on over the hill and talk to the rep, bring your girl! :)

Maude
Oct. 10, 2011, 06:41 PM
Thanks Ellie! I left Keith a message and asked that he bring an 18" Special. 7:30 AM. I plan to get up extra early to turn Miss. Antsy Pants out before he gets here so she can get some of the beans out before I have to sit on her. Neither one of us are morning people..:)

Duff
Oct. 11, 2011, 09:02 AM
I absolutely love my Childerac. I rode for years in a steuben parzival that was very nice, then a passier psl which was very nice neither compared to the Childerac. Most comfortable and easy to maintain correct position.

mbm
Oct. 11, 2011, 12:21 PM
The reason I got a Stubben GSD was because I did a clinic with Catherine back in June and could finally sit the big Weltmeyer trot on my guy. And I mean really SIT. Ditto his big roll-y canter.

ok. now i am doubly convinced i need a stubben! i have a wolkentanz mare with a trot that is - well - humbling - ;) to say the least.....

do you think a older stubben tristan with a half panel in front would help? (i have my eye on a 31.5 old tristan )

not again
Oct. 11, 2011, 01:06 PM
I am riding in a very old Tristan 17/31 and it allows me to sit the trot on the bounciest of horses. Leg position is easy to maintain, and if it is too wide on narrower horses I have various bits of neoprene to shim it out so that stays put. Love love love it!