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paulaedwina
Oct. 5, 2011, 07:21 PM
Deleted for lack of clarity.

Petstorejunkie
Oct. 5, 2011, 08:47 PM
juuuuust remember the main focus is HOW you get forward, and that it should come from you and not an outside stimulus.

FWIW this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oirFC1MsH7k) is ponying. I tried to find video of someone ponying 3 at a time, but alas I came up empty.

paulaedwina
Oct. 5, 2011, 09:51 PM
Deleted.

alto
Oct. 6, 2011, 02:34 AM
now I'm really confused - what else could ponying be :confused:

quietann
Oct. 6, 2011, 08:53 AM
juuuuust remember the main focus is HOW you get forward, and that it should come from you and not an outside stimulus.

FWIW this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oirFC1MsH7k) is ponying. I tried to find video of someone ponying 3 at a time, but alas I came up empty.

well, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLS87w0VAtU shows a whole bunch of people ponying 2 at a time... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sXwNzC8BAw shows one guy ponying two on each side. When I was in Florida two years ago, I saw a guy ponying 3 off one side and 4 off the other. You could barely see him amid the herd of ponies!

Petstorejunkie
Oct. 6, 2011, 09:07 AM
Thank you! I tried "polo pony ponying" "ponying 4 horses" so many different combos and only got videos of yahoos dragging a horse along in a dangerous manner.
best I ever did was 4 abreast, but I always cussed the whole time trying to line them up for mounting... never failed, one of mine would swing out and make a mess of things while trying to hop on.

netg
Oct. 6, 2011, 09:57 AM
now I'm really confused - what else could ponying be :confused:

Same here. I don't see how deleting helps with clarity...

I wasn't sure if Paula was just making a joke or not in the OP, and now I wish I had asked that. It was described as following a pony around, not ponying, but I think it was meant to be humorous... except if it was, deleting doesn't make sense.

paulaedwina
Oct. 6, 2011, 01:00 PM
Yes I was trying to say that Fella and I were completely different horse and rider following a pony around the ring. We did everything she did without fuss or muss. I found my seat again and found less that I was wrestling with him to keep him forward or straight. I have a feeling we were both more relaxed because I was more relaxed.

I deleted it because I just didn't have the strength to go through process of explaining what I meant and that I knew what ponying was and that I knew that he still had to learn forward on his own and that I thought it would be a good way to develop good habits just by doing.

I felt like the embodiment of the definition of insanity -doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome.

So I deleted it.
Paula

AnotherRound
Oct. 6, 2011, 01:31 PM
I never saw your first post. However, your simple description in this first paragraph here is very interesting. Whenever I am stuck on something, like "forward" or transitions or whatever, I think of something like what you just did to get back to basics. I think of something which the horse can do, and do it, find out what 'forward' means to him, and if he is responding in that situation, do it for a while, asking for what he is doing well, letting him do it at the level he can, then you can build on that.

I think that was a simple, wise clever way to get back to just having some success at something which has become frustrating, perhaps? Sometimes a session which just has some repeated successful moments at a basic level, like following another horse - which is using his herd instincts to mirror the other horse's movements - was a good idea, because he is moving with the other horse with you on board and you can ask him for what the other horse is doing. Next time you ask him, he will remember that he responded, right? If you do this again, try riding next to the other horse. Even try riding him while the other person is actually ponying him - when that person canters and he is snubbed up to the other horse, remember, you are riding him and he is doing everything correctly. Next time you ride, you will know he certainly can do it, and you can ask bravely and insist he respond and ask him to do the very same thing, only alone - canter in the same corner, for the same amount of time, or something. It is very rewarding and relieves the stress and frustration; then you can move on from there?

If that's what you meant, congrats, it was a clever idea, and very sound, in my opinion. I've done exactly the same on my rather well trained gelding, when we first came together.

Velvet
Oct. 6, 2011, 01:40 PM
Deleted for lack of clarity? That's new. Maybe we could make this the new "nevermind" thread. :lol:

alto
Oct. 6, 2011, 02:39 PM
At least it's horse related!



Yes I was trying to say that Fella and I were completely different horse and rider following a pony around the ring. We did everything she did without fuss or muss. I found my seat again and found less that I was wrestling with him to keep him forward or straight. I have a feeling we were both more relaxed because I was more relaxed.


& that is key :yes:
& maybe Fella was also more relaxed just because there was that other pony there taking all the pressure off :)

I was hoping for an update - I greatly admire your bravery in posting videos of your horse journey! & opening it all up for discussion.

paulaedwina
Oct. 6, 2011, 08:46 PM
Just got back home. My teenaged Yoda wasn't there today so I was on my own. We fussed a bit, but AnotherRound you were right, I was more confident in asking for stuff I know he can do. ALSO alto you're dead on; I think I rediscovered my seat and my balance when we were following our teenaged Yoda. As a consequence I rediscovered seat and tailbone/hip pressure today. I was able to approach fixing a counterbending issue I've been having (I don't know who counterbended first, but it is what it is). Imagine that you can influence/fix bending by weighting a tailbone/hip instead of trying to fix it with reins (I think I try to fix it by leading him to the outside when he's already counterbending outside and falling in on his inside shoulder -sigh -of course this must makes things worse. I am working on that).

Did some yoga a horse-top to help me stretch, activate my core, and find my seat. For example tree pose helped me discover how hollow my back was when I was astride the horse and helped me re-discover my core, lift my diaphragm and flatten that back again. It is especially effective when you close your eyes -then you can really feel your balance on the horse.

Warrior 2 helped me stretch out my back and triangle pose also helped me with this.

So it went sort of like; Mountain pose, Tree pose, lowered my arms to Warrior pose, rotating in the saddle, then to Triangle pose bringing my arm and shoulder Fella's opposite shoulder. I ended with a modified Big Toe pose where I wrapped my arms around Fella's neck and released my neck.

I did this before and after the session. I think it helped alot.

I am going to take your advice, Anotheround, and ride side by side in the next session.

Paula

katarine
Oct. 7, 2011, 01:22 PM
I'm going to watch America's Next Top Model all weekend so I can rediscover my inner size 2.

Coreene
Oct. 7, 2011, 05:43 PM
I'm going to watch America's Next Top Model all weekend so I can rediscover my inner size 2.
Imagine what could happen if you watched gymnastics.

paulaedwina
Oct. 9, 2011, 09:25 AM
AnotherRound,

Just a follow up. I think your assessment was dead on. I haven't had another session with my teenager, but I've been riding. That one session helped me feel what's right and what's off again. I can't say I'm correct, but now I know when I am not correct. For example, I've been working on straight at walk and my transitions, and now I know exactly when I am leaning forward to ask for a transition and feel him go off balance and can stop it and fix it and do it properly. This is huge. I'd lost this ability since training with Fella and I'm finding it again. I swear the horseback yoga that I did on impulse (I've done yoga on the ground) worked too. Tree pose with my eyes closed really really spoke to me.

BTW I've also discovered that without stirrups Fella is straight. With stirrups I'm pushing a rope. The horse hasn't changed so.... I guess I'll be working without stirrups for a while.

Paula

TheHorseProblem
Oct. 9, 2011, 12:01 PM
Paula,

I have been maybe too forthcoming about what I think of your attitude towards those who disagree with you, your constant updates, and your insistence that your horse can make it to GP, so you may have blocked this message, but I hope other more experienced COTHers who agree with me will post as well.

If riding your horse with stirrups is like pushing rope, your horse is, to put it in easy to understand terms, the boss of you. He is not doing one thing that is not HIS decision. This is bad for you and for the horse. As you have shared, this horse was resold by the previous owner because he was difficult.

This is probably exactly what she was talking about.

Put this horse in training. You are not doing him or yourself any favors by continuing to accept his reluctance to go forward. You put it in terms of losing your balance or whatever with this horse. THIS IS BECAUSE HE IS NOT LISTENING TO YOU. It's not your balance, it's because he is not moving and your body is probably twisting and contorting in ways you are not totally aware of an effort to get him to pick up his feet. An inexperienced rider deals with laziness by pushing and tensing in her seat. It's like banging two boards together, or trying to bounce off a slab of concrete. This is why you lose your balance.

A horse needs a boss. You are not his boss. Following some kid around and relying on his herd instinct is not going to help because it doesn't come from you.

If you can't tell your horse to DO something without him doing it NOW, then you are continuing to nurse this horse down the path of unrideability.

I know you love him, so put someone on him who can instill a work ethic.

carolprudm
Oct. 9, 2011, 01:29 PM
BTW I've also discovered that without stirrups Fella is straight. With stirrups I'm pushing a rope. The horse hasn't changed so.... I guess I'll be working without stirrups for a while.

Paula

You won't be doing him any favors. You know he can go straight, so figure out WHY he goes better without stirrups, pick up your stirrups and make him go straight!

paulaedwina
Oct. 9, 2011, 03:56 PM
Sorry, didn't mean to drive people crazy with constant updates. I process out loud so I like to talk things out. I'll try very hard to keep it to myself from now on. I'll try very hard to make this my last post here about Fella. I don't mean to be obnoxious.

Paula

mswillie
Oct. 9, 2011, 05:14 PM
Sorry, didn't mean to drive people crazy with constant updates. I process out loud so I like to talk things out. I'll try very hard to keep it to myself from now on. I'll try very hard to make this my last post here about Fella. I don't mean to be obnoxious.

Paula

I enjoy your updates, look for them actually. I don't usually say much but I have some of the same struggles and issues so it's interesting to see how someone else deals with them.

I think if you post that it's a Fella update in the subject line those who are interested can look, those who aren't can skip it.

Me, I don't have the cojones to put up a video of myself to be torn apart.

Whatever you choose to do, you have my email, feel free to share with me if you'd like to. :yes:

sid
Oct. 9, 2011, 05:32 PM
Ditto "The HorseProblem". IMO, that's a very honest assessment, though not one you might want to hear.

Basically, your horse is reacting to you u/s as if you are insignficant. And it's hard to progress (in fact you and the horse can digress) unless you change that in a tactful and skilled way. Sounds like you need help doing so, more than doing so through an internest forum.

You need a good pro with eyes on the ground and one that get get on your horse and GO FORWARD.

It's pretty humbling to see a horse go well for another, but it also tells you alot about your relationship with the horse (i.e. he's not taking you seriously).

Nothing wrong with seeking good help.;)


Edited to say: Many draft x's have a tendency to want to "suck back" and I can tell you from being a breeder of Shire/TB's in the past -- don't let it happen (or fix it as fast as you can). It's bad habit if you let them learn they can "live behind the leg".

paulaedwina
Oct. 9, 2011, 10:30 PM
Thanks for the advice guys, but I'm pretty much done here. My target is to ride 4 to 5 days a week and I learn a bit more every ride. I come here excited to share what I've learned and to learn more from you all (and I've learned a great deal and hoped to learn more), but this is the second time I've been told that my constant posting is annoying. So obviously I'm doing something wrong or have violated some kind of forum etiquette. That was never my intention. Mswillie I think you have a good idea about posting it as a Fella update, but people actually post to say that I'm posting too much. People actually post to make fun.

I can be very obsessive about anything that I'm doing and I see that here it's an irritation for some. I apologize. Can I ask you to consider though that there are all kinds of people who ride horses and love talking about it? Some of us are quite obsessive, but we mean no offense.

Thanks for this last bit of advice. Please don't feel that it's something I don't want to hear. I benefit from your input all the time. I take a great deal of what I learn here back to the ring and we are making progress.


I'll see you guys around.
Paula

netg
Oct. 9, 2011, 11:48 PM
Thanks for the advice guys, but I'm pretty much done here. My target is to ride 4 to 5 days a week and I learn a bit more every ride. I come here excited to share what I've learned and to learn more from you all (and I've learned a great deal and hoped to learn more), but this is the second time I've been told that my constant posting is annoying. So obviously I'm doing something wrong or have violated some kind of forum etiquette. That was never my intention. Mswillie I think you have a good idea about posting it as a Fella update, but people actually post to say that I'm posting too much. People actually post to make fun.

Paula, I hope you keep posting.

There is no reason for someone to read your threads if they don't want to, or they can block you if your posts are so annoying to them.

I do believe you would do well to have a trainer put in some rides on Fella to figure out what he knows, and figure out what difference you need to make in your riding every minute of every ride.

But that has nothing to do with whether or not you should keep posting!

When I first started posting here I said I was new to dressage as a discipline, and someone "kindly" sent me a PM advising me to stop posting and just read, as no one wanted to read nonsense from someone who didn't know what she's doing. Honestly, there are so many ways in which I'm clueless, and I know this... but there are times and ways in which I can help people, too. Even if a GP rider/trainer knows more than I do, for some folks maybe I can word something in a way that makes it understandable which that GP rider didn't make it for someone who needs help.

alto
Oct. 10, 2011, 12:06 AM
this is the second time I've been told that my constant posting is annoying. So obviously I'm doing something wrong or have violated some kind of forum etiquette. That was never my intention. Mswillie I think you have a good idea about posting it as a Fella update, but people actually post to say that I'm posting too much. People actually post to make fun.



that's called cyber bullying & you can either just place those folks on ignore or report them to the moderators
BUT this is a very lightly moderated forum (compared to some I've been) on so I doubt you'll have much luck with the second option unless there is profanity directed against you.

I hope you reconsider & keep posting updates & video - I notice that many of the posters that deride your offerings, fail to offer up video of their own accomplishments :rolleyes:

lovey1121
Oct. 10, 2011, 12:32 AM
Paula, I hope you keep posting. I always enjoy you.

TheHorseProblem
Oct. 10, 2011, 12:37 AM
Paula,

I have been maybe too forthcoming about what I think of your attitude towards those who disagree with you, your constant updates, and your insistence that your horse can make it to GP, so you may have blocked this message, but I hope other more experienced COTHers who agree with me will post as well.

If riding your horse with stirrups is like pushing rope, your horse is, to put it in easy to understand terms, the boss of you. He is not doing one thing that is not HIS decision. This is bad for you and for the horse. As you have shared, this horse was resold by the previous owner because he was difficult.

This is probably exactly what she was talking about.

Put this horse in training. You are not doing him or yourself any favors by continuing to accept his reluctance to go forward. You put it in terms of losing your balance or whatever with this horse. THIS IS BECAUSE HE IS NOT LISTENING TO YOU. It's not your balance, it's because he is not moving and your body is probably twisting and contorting in ways you are not totally aware of an effort to get him to pick up his feet. An inexperienced rider deals with laziness by pushing and tensing in her seat. It's like banging two boards together, or trying to bounce off a slab of concrete. This is why you lose your balance.

A horse needs a boss. You are not his boss. Following some kid around and relying on his herd instinct is not going to help because it doesn't come from you.

If you can't tell your horse to DO something without him doing it NOW, then you are continuing to nurse this horse down the path of unrideability.

I know you love him, so put someone on him who can instill a work ethic.

This is what I said. I said that despite the unpleasantness in other threads, I hope you, Paula, see this message because, like Anita said to the soda shop full of Jets in the third act of West Side Story, "I'm trying to help!"


Sorry, didn't mean to drive people crazy with constant updates. I process out loud so I like to talk things out. I'll try very hard to keep it to myself from now on. I'll try very hard to make this my last post here about Fella. I don't mean to be obnoxious.

Paula

This is what the OP heard.

alto, that is not cyber-bullying. :no:

I am not sugar-coating anything here, and if she wants to ignore me that's her right. But I stand my everything I said about her horse and what she needs to do to progress.

Personally, I gave up on trying to motivate lazy horses and got one with a motor.

alto
Oct. 10, 2011, 01:05 AM
alto, that is not cyber-bullying.

I am not sugar-coating anything here, and if she wants to ignore me that's her right. But I stand my everything I said about her horse and what she needs to do to progress.

Personally, I gave up on trying to motivate lazy horses and got one with a motor.

my post was not directed towards you at all!
:)

My ability to discern the relevance or horse-related nuances in posts such as these is utterly lacking

katarine
I'm going to watch America's Next Top Model all weekend so I can rediscover my inner size 2.


Coreene

Originally Posted by katarine
I'm going to watch America's Next Top Model all weekend so I can rediscover my inner size 2.

Imagine what could happen if you watched gymnastics.

... & yet, it must be there, as such posts remain in this thread & others started by the OP :confused:

paulaedwina
Oct. 10, 2011, 09:35 AM
Netg,

Re: When I first started posting here I said I was new to dressage as a discipline, and someone "kindly" sent me a PM advising me to stop posting and just read, as no one wanted to read nonsense from someone who didn't know what she's doing.

I am so sorry that someone was so mean to you. I know it made you feel terrible. I don't understand why some people feel this need to go out of their way to make other people feel bad. We are all human beings with human feelings.

For the record I have no problem with criticism and feedback. I am very analytical and do post these issues, video, etc. for exactly that -input and a fresh perspective. I do have a problem with mean. It doesn't feel good, and I'm not always wearing the right kind of armor to deflect it.

So I appreciate all the good wishes and support. I also appreciate that there are considerably fewer mean people than well-wishing, well-intended people on this board, but I have to tell you I'm not feeling very good right now. That may be more about me than anything else. Let me take some time and see how things go. Goodness knows this forum is chock full of useful information.

Thanks, guys.
Paula

katarine
Oct. 10, 2011, 10:16 AM
my post was not directed towards you at all!
:)

My ability to discern the relevance or horse-related nuances in posts such as these is utterly lacking




... & yet, it must be there, as such posts remain in this thread & others started by the OP :confused:

Alto, you're mislabeling my behavior. This gal doesn't know what ponying is... but she's 'rediscovering' everything from her formerly fabulous seat, seat bones, inside rein, elongated back, steady hands, following hands, commandments 11-15, and the secret to flaky pie crust. She never had those things. It's OK. Every darn one of us has to learn from the bottom of the triangle up. Pretending one used to know these things, feel these things: is only going to retard one's progress. Turn loose of the need to pretend, the need to 'look good'. It just makes one look silly, and who wants that?

Just be green, girl. Just be new to all of this dressage stuff. People are infinitely more patient with green riders who own their greeness, who are entirely ok with how much they don't know. A sponge doesn't do anyone much good if it's already full of water. Wring it out, boo, wring it. Only then can you take in new things- fighting them and forcing them into some false construct: If nothing else it's expensive, and it confuses and dulls the horse who just wants their rider to wake up and be clear.

She reminds me a little of Ambrey, who knew next to nothing about dressage principles, theory, etc....but would argue with everything. Exhausting, and not good for the horse in the long run.

LarkspurCO
Oct. 10, 2011, 10:42 AM
I have had a few challenging longe lessons, but I'm still on page one trying to picture doing triangle pose (http://www.yogajournal.com/images/old/article/JF05_58.jpg) on a horse.:confused:

alto
Oct. 10, 2011, 11:52 AM
Alto, you're mislabeling my behavior.

Just be green, girl. Just be new to all of this dressage stuff. People are infinitely more patient with green riders who own their greeness, who are entirely ok with how much they don't know. A sponge doesn't do anyone much good if it's already full of water. Wring it out, boo, wring it. Only then can you take in new things- fighting them and forcing them into some false construct: If nothing else it's expensive, and it confuses and dulls the horse who just wants their rider to wake up and be clear.


Thanks :) I was confused by your response - I missed Ambrey Time.

As for Yoga on horseback - try lateral thinking rather than literal thinking ...

mp
Oct. 10, 2011, 12:45 PM
The "ears open, mouth shut" approach to a new subject is never a bad idea. ;)

PaulaEdwina, post all you want. Ask all the questions you want. But be sure you don't confuse reading/talking/posting about dressage with learning to ride dressage.

Because dressage is all about getting the right feel. And I can tell you, as an adult who started riding at 40+ and got into dressage at 50+, you won't be successful without good instruction and a lot time in the saddle. I don't care what you did on horseback however many years ago.

PS to whomever pointed out that the "deriders" haven't posted videos of themselves:

I would if I could. But alas, I don't have anyone to take them. I have posted pics of me riding, and have one in my profile. That will have to do. But trust me, I've paid my dues in the beginner/learner category. In fact, I'm still there. :lol:

LarkspurCO
Oct. 10, 2011, 01:03 PM
As for Yoga on horseback - try lateral thinking rather than literal thinking ...

I guess I don't have to because I can just look at this:

http://rickrideshorses.hubpages.com/hub/Yoga-with-horses-Exercises-for-equine-and-human-health


But, seriously, as a long-time practitioner of Iyengar yoga and owner of the book "Yoga on Horseback," I still have a hard time equating stretching exercises I do in the saddle with yoga.

I was literally trying to picture doing the actual poses on top of the horse. Linda Guanti's got it going on.:yes:

TheHorseProblem
Oct. 10, 2011, 01:29 PM
She reminds me a little of Ambrey, who knew next to nothing about dressage principles, theory, etc....but would argue with everything. Exhausting, and not good for the horse in the long run.

Full disclosure here: Ambrey is a personal friend, and I know she got some people's goat around here, but this is not true about her. And her horse really is a lovely dressage horse.

Back to the topic: Riding is dynamic. What's the first thing we have to learn about it? How to make the horse go and how to make him stop. There are plenty of school horses out there with more stop than go, and that is how it should be. But if you really want to learn how to ride, you need more go. You create your balance on the horse that is moving. I have watched the OP's videos. The horse is not moving for her.

I have been there. I have driven home from the barn many times in tears because I couldn't even get my horse to canter. The strain of trying to get him to go twisted me so out of the saddle, it was pathetic. That particular horse was a lazy spook, so he also destroyed my confidence. He became dangerous because his work ethic deteriorated so much from where we started, he learned to just catapult the rider off his back when he wasn't getting his way.

I know the OP really loves the horse and wants to RIDE. But what I see in the vids is a trail ride in a ring. Riding is so much more fun than that! But she will never experience that unless the horse moves out.

That's what began this thread--finally, the horse was moving forward because he was following another horse around.

The OP needs to learn how to create that for herself. It is really, really hard to do that on this type of horse. I get drawn in to the threads because I have been there, so I feel like I'm reading the thoughts of someone who doesn't even know what she doesn't know.

So here's what I know, from someone who started riding in her thirties and has dealt with fear constantly because I RODE THE WRONG HORSES:

THIS SPORT IS SUPPOSED TO BE FUN. You can't fine tune your riding or your horse's way of going if he is not moving.

End of rant. Paula, I am sorry if I hurt your feelings before. I don't want to discourage you. I want to encourage you to get the help you need to make it fun.

katarine
Oct. 10, 2011, 02:00 PM
THP We'll have to agree to disagree about Ambrey. She was banned for good reason(s), being argumentative/all about her... about every single cotton picking thing...being one of them.

My most recent videos is two weeks old, training 2/gaited.

http://youtu.be/iQdU1HKNeqc

mp
Oct. 10, 2011, 02:06 PM
So here's what I know, from someone who started riding in her thirties and has dealt with fear constantly because I RODE THE WRONG HORSES:

THIS SPORT IS SUPPOSED TO BE FUN. You can't fine tune your riding or your horse's way of going if he is not moving.

Yes, it should be fun. But you can have a helluva lot of fun on a horse without ever riding dressage.

Dressage is fun, but it's also a lot of work. If you don't want to do the work, don't take up dressage. That was the point of my post.


Paula, I am sorry if I hurt your feelings before. I don't want to discourage you. I want to encourage you to get the help you need to make it fun.

Did you ever have this conversation with Ambrey? I tried. Many times. I got about as far as you have with PaulaE. :lol:

PS -- sometimes the WRONG horse is the one that teaches you the most. But the first thing you have to do is own the fact that it's YOU who's wrong, not the horse.

quietann
Oct. 10, 2011, 04:39 PM
wow, I kind of missed all this.

I too was cyberbullied, on a different forum, after I bought my mare 3 1/2 years ago. We were not necessarily well-suited for each other right off the bat, and some young, immature people took advantage of this fact to stalk me and harass me online. But one thing similar to Paula, I was posting a LOT, and things that might have been more appropriate for a personal journal, and that was annoying the 'know-it-alls'. It was a terrible time for me and nearly led to me selling the mare, as well as having quite a long time with NO confidence in my abilities. The "OMG what if they are right?" haunts me to this day.

But... eventually it all worked out. I post an update every few months in the group where the bullying happened, and some of the bullies have actually come around and apologized for how they treated me in the first place.

I still have my mare, and it's turned out to be a very good match (probably helped by the fact that neither of us can jump anymore, and jumping was going to be an issue for a timid adult re-rider and a very, um, enthusiastic and wicked fast little horse, who was not 100% reliable to the jumps.) The years of training, rehabbing from suspensory surgery, etc. have taught me *so* much. I now have a horse I can show at the very low levels, two great trainers, and a horse I can also take out for a trail ride alone or in a group and truly trust.

I wish Paula a similar journey.

paulaedwina
Oct. 10, 2011, 06:47 PM
Hey there. I guess RL issues were making me more thin skinned than usual. But my dad came through his stress test with flying colors, my dissertation chair will accept my modifications on my dissertation, etc. Still going to have a boatload of student debt when I'm done, but hey. I'm feeling pretty good this evening.



Yoga a horseback

Guys, just because you've never heard of a thing or never thought of it doesn't make it impractical or impossible. I'd heard about yoga for equestrians some time ago http://www.amazon.com/Yoga-Equestrians-Achieving-Union-Horse/dp/1570761361/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1318285051&sr=8-1 and it seemed a good thing to apply now. Notice the cover of the book -the rider is in Tree pose.

So I just applied what I'd learned in Yoga on the ground to Yoga on horseback. I mean it was just a matter of improvising for certain limitations. I mean what would you do if you were a wheelchair user and wanted to do yoga? You'd improvise.

Triangle pose on horseback

This is Triangle pose for those who might not know http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=A0PDoX7FcJNOC0kA87SJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBlMT Q4cGxyBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1n?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimage s.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3DTriangl e%2Bpose%26fr2%3Dpiv-web%26b%3D1%26tab%3Dorganic&w=527&h=500&imgurl=beginneryogaposes.com%2Fimages%2Ftriangle-pose-group.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fbeginneryogaposes.com%2Ftriangle _pose.htm&size=93.8+KB&name=Triangle+Pose&p=Triangle+pose&oid=634f44ae98f84d9934a629df01e27a1e&fr2=piv-web&fr=&tt=Triangle+Pose&b=0&ni=28&no=4&tab=organic&sigr=11ea2ajrt&sigb=12o0ns0tf&sigi=11kd6imd1&.crumb=R6uhSNfeAB1

So I started with my arms resting at my sides. Raised my arms up to shoulder height, rotated my torso (let's say so my right arm and shoulder is forward and my left arm and shoulder is back) to as close to parallel to the horse as I could (Warrior II). Then bending from the hips I slide my right arm down the the horse's left shoulder and point the left hand (arm) to the ceiling.

Triangle pose.

So the sequence was Mountain pose, Tree pose, Warrior II, Triangle pose, Warrior 2, Tree pose, repeat sequence other side, Mountain pose.

You know what? It was brilliant! I found my seat, I rediscovered my position, became more aware of how my horse and balanced each other (try it with your eyes closed), etc. It was like when I was a kid and my instructor made us play games like Round the World on horseback (we did it at walk and it helped you get in tune with your horse's motion and improved your seat and balance). Funniest thing; I did it and got a straight trot for about 3/4 of the long side....before I got all wiggly again and started to counter bend.

So scoff all you will, but this is something I'll be incorporating from now on.

For clarification

Following the pony didn't improve forwards as much as it improved straightness. I wasn't fussing with him all the time trying to fix counter bending. I think this worked because similar to an exercise that my trainer makes me do where I ride towards a target (keeping it between his ears) I used my teenaged Yoda as a target and rode towards her pony's behind. Also, because I relaxed. I relaxed and Fella relaxed.

We have been getting forward. It's by no means the athletic forward I got riding Tempi the PSG schoolmaster at my dressage trainer's barn, but we're booking as much as an untrained, out-of-shape horse can go. Oh, and in appreciation of another poster who distinguished between forward and responsiveness (thank you for the distinction), Fella is also responsive. I don't accept a slow build up to the transition, but a good smart move off.

We're working on straight alot now. Here's what I've discovered.

We have less of a problem with straight when we are forward. I have a problem with straight because of my seat. I saw dramatic evidence of this when I was complaining to my trainer about counter bending on the left rein. I literally was standing at halt and showed her how we went around on the left bent to the right by pushing my right shoulder back. Fella bent to the right (the counter bend). And as hilarious as this sounds, as I'm saying, "But for some reason we won't bend this way" the subtle change of shoulders (left shoulder back) and Fella curved nicely to the inside. I cracked myself up (and she laughed at me). Because I answered my own question -Fella is exquisitely tuned to my seat and my position. So the challenge was to accomplish this when we were moving.

So I've been feeling alot in the seat lately. This is why I was saying with stirrups he's crooked, and without stirrups he's straight. It's the same horse so it has to be my position. I did a bit of an experiment and rode at walk for a while without stirrups and then slipped my feet into the stirrups at that walk and boom -I was no longer to maintain his position. So it's me and my seat. I don't know if it's that the Wintec has my leathers too far in front of me or that I just have to re-learn my position. I do know I'm going to be riding without stirrups for a while.

I'm telling you this -right now I can feel when I cock forward for an upward transition and I fix it. This is a vast improvement on having a horrid ride and wondering where it all went wrong.

So those who scoff at my unconventional ways or my willingness to try any wacky thing that my mind concocts, what can I say but "so far so good". You know what? Try Tree pose in your saddle the next time out. Close your eyes and feel your body astride your horse. Feel his movements and how your body shifts to absorb them. Feel whether your back is hollow. Give it a shot.

ETA: Thanks for the kind wishes, Quietann. Don't worry; the hexperts have yet to convince me to sell my Fella. I like him too much and he has too much going for him. I had a very nice PM from someone who seems very much like me and she's suggested I consider a wordpress blog. I'm looking into that because I do want to journal in detail..incessantly. What I get here is great advice and a diversity of perspectives. So I will take Mswillie's recommendation and title my posts "Fella Updates" so that those who are annoyed by my posting can just pass it by. And for those who insist on posting just to be snarky and mean.... Eh well. What's to do about them? Their meanness is there for the world to see.

Paula

sid
Oct. 10, 2011, 09:21 PM
Katarine...it was a real kick to see your video.

I raised and trained a TWH for dressage, but he had a "normal" and lovely,big walk He would gait in the trot transitions, so I had to teach him to get off my leg fast to pick up a normal trot.

Anyway, I ramble. I owned him from age 3 to 23 and I adored him and the challenge that came with dressageby status quo standards. :)

Lisa Cook
Oct. 10, 2011, 09:37 PM
OK, it seems that the correct definition of ponying was clarified right off the bat, but I can't resist....this video was taken just a week or so ago. I am riding to my dressage lesson and ponying my son's horse with me. My son works at the dressage barn, but we don't board there...our horses are a short hack down the street. So I tacked up his horse, loaded his riding gear in a backpack and set out for my lesson with his horse in tow, so he could ride right after work. :)

http://youtu.be/7m0mlaqGE4Q

Since it was ponying & dressage related, and somewhere in this topic, videos were mentioned, I figure this video link hits the trifecta. :lol:

kaluha2
Oct. 10, 2011, 10:03 PM
Lisa: Hit the Trifecta YOU did!! LOL! I love your vid. How on earth does anyone work up the courage to ride on the road? Your horses have adapted very well to traffic. Love the spots too.

Lately everything seems to be placed into the bullying catagory even at times the simple truth. I guess it's all in the delivery/perception though.

OP: Are you the person that rides with a water bottle and squirts her horse in the shoulder to get him off the inside leg instead of just using the inside leg because using the inside leg/aids would be just too cruel??

paulaedwina
Oct. 10, 2011, 10:06 PM
RE:
OP: Are you the person that rides with a water bottle and squirts her horse in the shoulder to get him off the inside leg instead of just using the inside leg because using the inside leg/aids would be just too cruel??

Um, no. Is that for real?

Paula

LarkspurCO
Oct. 11, 2011, 11:14 AM
Yoga a horseback

Guys, just because you've never heard of a thing or never thought of it doesn't make it impractical or impossible.

Did you read my follow-up post? It was a tongue-in-cheek remark, aka, a joke.

At any rate, good luck with Fella no matter what you're doing up there. It sounds like you are having fun and doing what you want to do.

mp
Oct. 11, 2011, 12:32 PM
OK, it seems that the correct definition of ponying was clarified right off the bat, but I can't resist....this video was taken just a week or so ago. I am riding to my dressage lesson and ponying my son's horse with me. My son works at the dressage barn, but we don't board there...our horses are a short hack down the street. So I tacked up his horse, loaded his riding gear in a backpack and set out for my lesson with his horse in tow, so he could ride right after work. :)

http://youtu.be/7m0mlaqGE4Q

Since it was ponying & dressage related, and somewhere in this topic, videos were mentioned, I figure this video link hits the trifecta. :lol:

Awesome video. But is the Appy moviong straight? I can't tell because the blanket is such a distraction. ;)

PS -- saw your post re: your new TB. Have you renamed her yet? If not, how about Claire (for Claire de Lune). :)

Lisa Cook
Oct. 11, 2011, 12:43 PM
Awesome video. But is the Appy moviong straight? I can't tell because the blanket is such a distraction. ;)

I hope so! He felt fine & my instructor is also an R judge with an eye for anything uneven...regardless, since I sold him a week ago, I won't lose sleep over it. :) For a 6 year old horse, he sure is a level-headed g'boy and he will be perfect for his new owner, who is just getting back into horses after 20 years away. He's a couch with legs, and doesn't worry about much....traffic, commotion....whatever! :lol:


PS -- saw your post re: your new TB. Have you renamed her yet? If not, how about Claire (for Claire de Lune). :)

My names for her are all over the board! Moving Target with a barn name of Tally is probably leading the pack. I've always like the name Irregardless for a horse. I know, I know...not a real word. But I like it, don't ask me why. I also like Tabitha and then Tabby for barn name. Or Illumination, barn name TBD for that. See what I mean about all over the board? But I need to pick something soon, or Moon will stick. :dead:

meupatdoes
Oct. 11, 2011, 12:44 PM
When I first started posting here I said I was new to dressage as a discipline, and someone "kindly" sent me a PM advising me to stop posting and just read, as no one wanted to read nonsense from someone who didn't know what she's doing. Honestly, there are so many ways in which I'm clueless, and I know this... but there are times and ways in which I can help people, too. Even if a GP rider/trainer knows more than I do, for some folks maybe I can word something in a way that makes it understandable which that GP rider didn't make it for someone who needs help.

Exactly.

And I wish you would have outed that PM the second it hit your inbox.

monstrpony
Oct. 11, 2011, 01:14 PM
I hope so! He felt fine & my instructor is also an R judge with an eye for anything uneven...regardless, since I sold him a week ago, I won't lose sleep over it. :) For a 6 year old horse, he sure is a level-headed g'boy and he will be perfect for his new owner, who is just getting back into horses after 20 years away. He's a couch with legs, and doesn't worry about much....traffic, commotion....whatever! :lol:



Dang, I wish you'd sold him to ME!

paulaedwina
Oct. 11, 2011, 01:18 PM
RE: Did you read my follow-up post? It was a tongue-in-cheek remark, aka, a joke.

Sorry, I missed that.

Paula

AnotherRound
Oct. 12, 2011, 02:13 PM
Exactly.

And I wish you would have outed that PM the second it hit your inbox.

What a nasty, intimidating thing. I agree, and its never too late to out a pm like that.

netg
Oct. 12, 2011, 03:02 PM
What a nasty, intimidating thing. I agree, and its never too late to out a pm like that.

Honestly, I didn't yet have much idea of the full personality of the board, and have been on boards with folks who revel in being the "mean girls" so it didn't phase me a whole lot.

I DID make a post without knowing full context which was inappropriate (and apologized to that individual via PM) at one point early on, too... so just kind of shrugged it off. I just try to encourage folks like Paula who I suspect likely gets similar PMs also to keep posting. It takes a while to fit into the culture of a community, but to me positive enthusiasm can only make any community better.

I did find it funny when that person who PMed me ended up repeating my advice multiple times a day on multiple threads after that, and suspect she had blocked me. It was quite amusing...

paulaedwina
Oct. 12, 2011, 03:22 PM
Interestingly I've never gotten a nasty or snarky PM. All the PMs I've gotten have been wonderful and supportive. Often they gave me good suggestions and resources and a pat on the back with a, "don't you worry about those Debbie Downers".

Paula

CatOnLap
Oct. 12, 2011, 03:55 PM
Wow, its been a long time since Ambrey was here. The last I heard was that she was trying to sell her draft cross, after unsuccesfully trying to convince all of us that he was a warmblood with GP potential. The same woman who posted a video of that " nice dressage horse" who apparently tippled her off and broke her back to the point where she no longer rides, and needed surgery just to be mobile. The same woman who tried to pass a video of that horse doing a sideways spook as "half pass". The one who thought her underweight palomino pony was a suitable mount for her own ample body type? She certainly did not impress anyone on this board at the time and her argumentative style, including questioning why one ought not to ride dressage in a pelham or why her pudgy draft horse was not Olympic material in anyone but her own eyes, did eventually get her banned here.

So, TheHorseProblem- you know this poor soul personally? Do tell? Did she ever sell Smokey after she sent him off to the pro trainers?!? Did she ever start riding again? She was quite sure she'd be doing PSG on him in a few years time...

It is most unfortunate that the woman did not take the sage advice she had been offered many times- to sell him and his stable mate, the palomino pony she had bought for her daughter who showed little interest in riding, at a reasonable price for their types (and in this market, its probably giveaway to a good home time) and buy a trained schoolmaster if she seriously wanted to learn dressage.

The sport has been well documented and succesful training systems are numerous, without re-inventing it. Sometimes thinking outside the box just gets you an empty box.

mp
Oct. 12, 2011, 04:33 PM
Honestly, I didn't yet have much idea of the full personality of the board, and have been on boards with folks who revel in being the "mean girls" so it didn't phase me a whole lot.

I DID make a post without knowing full context which was inappropriate (and apologized to that individual via PM) at one point early on, too... so just kind of shrugged it off.

Good for you.

I hadn't been on this board very long when I was gifted with a very condescending, sniffy post from a board regular. The subject was adults learning to ride and I recounted my own struggles and how I'd overcome them. The poster said why did you bother -- too much effort and you're still just an intermediate rider. No PMs for this one -- he/she lets you to know how insignificant you are right in front god and everybody. :lol:

At first, I was so ticked off I could hardly see. That was quickly followed by a moment of clarity. This person knows eff-all about me and sounds like the kind of insufferable snob I'd avoid at all costs IRL. Why should I care what he/she thinks?

And that -- along with ears open, mouth shut -- is how I'd suggest people approach this board. There is a lot that can be learned here, if you'll just listen.

And almost as much to ignore.

quietann
Oct. 12, 2011, 05:31 PM
Interestingly I've never gotten a nasty or snarky PM. All the PMs I've gotten have been wonderful and supportive. Often they gave me good suggestions and resources and a pat on the back with a, "don't you worry about those Debbie Downers".

Paula

I think the bullies don't get as much of a rush from acting in private. It's much more fun to egg each other on in public. I had a lot of PMs in my mess, but they were all pretty supportive -- and I count the one from someone who "outed" to me what the mean girls were doing behind my back... She was one of them, and her guilty conscience got to her, I guess.

CatOnLap
Oct. 12, 2011, 05:54 PM
God forbid that this place should become a forum where one is only allowed to spout butterflies and rainbows because the riders who post here cannot tolerate anything in the way of blatant and obvious truth or even mild criticism.

Horses don't lie- if you are being a jerk, they will let you know, and often not in very kind ways, but at least they are clear in their expressions. Some folks could learn from that. Part of the charm of these forums is the moderation over the years has allowed people to speak their truths, no matter how uncomfortable it may seem at the time.

katarine
Oct. 12, 2011, 06:10 PM
My first foray into this forum (dressage) was met with a PM from SLC asking 'why do you have to be so f***ing sensitive?'

Yeah, welcome, come on in :)

I pin my ears at thee!

mp
Oct. 12, 2011, 06:17 PM
What's with all the PMs you people get? I've been on this forum for 8 years and I bet I've gotten fewer than 30. And most of those were "thanks for the information" type of things. No berating. No sympathy or "you go girl" stuff.

Don't I make anyone mad enough at me or sorry enough for me to get them? What do I need to do?

I feel so left out. :cry:

Petstorejunkie
Oct. 12, 2011, 06:21 PM
1. WTH happened to this thread while I was away?
2. Paula, keep posting... if nothing else your posts give a glimpse into the mind of someone learning a new discipline. I hope you didn't take offense to my post.
3. I miss SLC2, and I hope she is doing well. We didn't always agree, she challenged me to think and rethink my foundation. She lacked sugar and spice, but when she posted, it was something worth reading, venom and all. and for the record, SLC2 was not banned, she had surgery on her hands and was able to get back to riding.

INoMrEd
Oct. 12, 2011, 06:57 PM
My first foray into this forum (dressage) was met with a PM from SLC asking 'why do you have to be so f***ing sensitive?'

Yeah, welcome, come on in :)

I pin my ears at thee!

I have been on CoTH for a long time. What ever happend to SLC? is she the same person as SLC2?

Petstorejunkie
Oct. 12, 2011, 07:22 PM
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=248487&highlight=hand+surgery

katarine
Oct. 12, 2011, 07:27 PM
In ten years I bet I've gotten a total of 100, and lots of those were around a horse on the giveaways list...no one loves nor hates me enough to PM me, either ;)

I don't buy much of the 'I'm afraid to support you but I do so I PM'd you' tales. The only time that's ever happened to me as after it's gotten so hot in the kitchen no one dare post. Why NOT post, otherwise? What's gonna happen? someone gonna caps lock you to death?

netg
Oct. 13, 2011, 12:33 AM
In ten years I bet I've gotten a total of 100, and lots of those were around a horse on the giveaways list...no one loves nor hates me enough to PM me, either ;)

I don't buy much of the 'I'm afraid to support you but I do so I PM'd you' tales. The only time that's ever happened to me as after it's gotten so hot in the kitchen no one dare post. Why NOT post, otherwise? What's gonna happen? someone gonna caps lock you to death?

I've definitely gotten more nasty than nice PMs in my posting on various message boards. I think I got a private vote of support once on one message board. Most of my PMs are related to tack, available horses, that sort of thing. Someone answered a question I had who didn't want to post personal details publicly. But yeah, I don't generally get rousing rounds of support via PM either.

carolprudm
Oct. 13, 2011, 08:10 AM
Wow, its been a long time since Ambrey was here. The last I heard was that she was trying to sell her draft cross, after unsuccesfully trying to convince all of us that he was a warmblood with GP potential. The same woman who posted a video of that " nice dressage horse" who apparently tippled her off and broke her back to the point where she no longer rides, and needed surgery just to be mobile. The same woman who tried to pass a video of that horse doing a sideways spook as "half pass". The one who thought her underweight palomino pony was a suitable mount for her own ample body type? She certainly did not impress anyone on this board at the time and her argumentative style, including questioning why one ought not to ride dressage in a pelham or why her pudgy draft horse was not Olympic material in anyone but her own eyes, did eventually get her banned here.

So, TheHorseProblem- you know this poor soul personally? Do tell? Did she ever sell Smokey after she sent him off to the pro trainers?!? Did she ever start riding again? She was quite sure she'd be doing PSG on him in a few years time...

It is most unfortunate that the woman did not take the sage advice she had been offered many times- to sell him and his stable mate, the palomino pony she had bought for her daughter who showed little interest in riding, at a reasonable price for their types (and in this market, its probably giveaway to a good home time) and buy a trained schoolmaster if she seriously wanted to learn dressage.

The sport has been well documented and succesful training systems are numerous, without re-inventing it. Sometimes thinking outside the box just gets you an empty box.
I see her on facebook occasionally
http://www.facebook.com/#!/media/set/?set=a.1545099718374.81717.1561457211&type=3

paulaedwina
Oct. 13, 2011, 08:44 AM
The sport has been well documented and succesful training systems are numerous, without re-inventing it. Sometimes thinking outside the box just gets you an empty box.

This is an interesting sentiment. Of course it is not specific to any discipline. There are disadvantages and advantages of this school of thought. Of course tried and true helps you in that you may not have to reinvent the wheel. On the other hand this point of view is exceedingly static. It does not encourage innovation. It essentially says we've been skinning cats this way for eons and this is how we should continue to skin cats.

Personally it is not a philosophy I hold to. I think flexibility is a good thing and leads to innovation. My first dog was trained classically with the choke chain. My dogs thereafter were clicker trained. If I held to the philosophy described above I never would have learned operant conditioning.

As far as I can understand this - you choose which way you're going to go every time the challenge arises. So for me in these circumstances I am open to trying anything that seems to have merit. I am not wedded to any particular style of training, and goodness knows there is no one style of training in Dressage.

So I'm happy to think outside the box and see what benefits that might bring.

JMO of course
Paula

Reddfox
Oct. 13, 2011, 09:33 AM
^
In regards to the above, I think that it's important to distinguish between training systems that build strength and balance and training systems that are training responses. These two things are obviously linked – the horse needs the proper musculature to carry out certain responses. But, IMO you can think more outside the box when trying to elicit a response than you can when trying to systematically build strength.

I think that it's good to explore other methods because the more you do so, the more you build your toolbox. What works for one horse (when training responsiveness) may not work for another. When you are teaching a horse to yield to the bit or move off your leg – these are response based (I do x and horse does y in response) – and there are many ways to get there. And you do need to be a bit creative or flexible sometimes.

One thing to keep in mind is WHY you are looking to “innovate”. Is it because the horse is not responding to the method you are trying, or because you are trying to build your toolbox? Or is it “just because you can.” Not saying that this is your reasoning – but I think that taking a look at the motives for trying new CAN help pinpoint which direction to look in – otherwise you are just trying things at random – which can lead to a very confused horsey partner.

However, if you're talking of thinking outside the box when trying to build up a horse's strength, I think that's less open for ”out of the box” thinking. Biomechanically, there are basic tenets that must be adhered to in order to build to collection. Biomechanically, there are only so many ways a horse can move – there are exercises specifically developed to target issues in suppleness and strength such as the shoulder-fore and shoulder-in. The rider and trainer must act as a physical therapist of sorts and look at the strengths and weaknesses of individual and go to work – systematically. The exercises are meant to build on each other and I think that looking for innovation in THIS area of training is not the best course of action.

TheHorseProblem
Oct. 13, 2011, 09:40 AM
Wow, its been a long time since Ambrey was here. The last I heard was that she was trying to sell her draft cross, after unsuccesfully trying to convince all of us that he was a warmblood with GP potential. The same woman who posted a video of that " nice dressage horse" who apparently tippled her off and broke her back to the point where she no longer rides, and needed surgery just to be mobile. The same woman who tried to pass a video of that horse doing a sideways spook as "half pass". The one who thought her underweight palomino pony was a suitable mount for her own ample body type? She certainly did not impress anyone on this board at the time and her argumentative style, including questioning why one ought not to ride dressage in a pelham or why her pudgy draft horse was not Olympic material in anyone but her own eyes, did eventually get her banned here.

So, TheHorseProblem- you know this poor soul personally? Do tell? Did she ever sell Smokey after she sent him off to the pro trainers?!? Did she ever start riding again? She was quite sure she'd be doing PSG on him in a few years time...

It is most unfortunate that the woman did not take the sage advice she had been offered many times- to sell him and his stable mate, the palomino pony she had bought for her daughter who showed little interest in riding, at a reasonable price for their types (and in this market, its probably giveaway to a good home time) and buy a trained schoolmaster if she seriously wanted to learn dressage.

The sport has been well documented and succesful training systems are numerous, without re-inventing it. Sometimes thinking outside the box just gets you an empty box.

Beyond the pale is right.

Pocket Pony
Oct. 13, 2011, 09:48 AM
(Quoting CatOnLap): The sport has been well documented and succesful training systems are numerous, without re-inventing it. Sometimes thinking outside the box just gets you an empty box.

--

This is an interesting sentiment. Of course it is not specific to any discipline. There are disadvantages and advantages of this school of thought. Of course tried and true helps you in that you may not have to reinvent the wheel. On the other hand this point of view is exceedingly static. It does not encourage innovation. It essentially says we've been skinning cats this way for eons and this is how we should continue to skin cats.

But it isn't static. She's not saying that there's ONLY one way to do things and only one training method - she said there are numerous successful training methods, and there are. You can subscribe to one proven training method, or you can pick and choose from dozens out there to find what works for you and your horse.

Personally it is not a philosophy I hold to. I think flexibility is a good thing and leads to innovation. My first dog was trained classically with the choke chain. My dogs thereafter were clicker trained. If I held to the philosophy described above I never would have learned operant conditioning.


But, see, YOU didn't invent clicker training or operant conditioning, it is a training method that has been around for a very long time. This is an example of what CatOnLap was saying - it is a proven training method that one may choose to have in their toolbox.

As far as I can understand this - you choose which way you're going to go every time the challenge arises. So for me in these circumstances I am open to trying anything that seems to have merit. I am not wedded to any particular style of training, and goodness knows there is no one style of training in Dressage.

I think you're missing CatOnLap's point. She's not saying that you (or she) has to do ONE THING as a response to every situation. There exists a greater number of training methodologies than most of us will ever study. Use those PROVEN methods - pick and choose if you have to - so that you're not putting yourself and your horse at a disadvantage.

So I'm happy to think outside the box and see what benefits that might bring.

JMO of course
Paula

As has been said, there's nothing new under the sun.

mp
Oct. 13, 2011, 10:21 AM
^
In regards to the above, I think that it's important to distinguish between training systems that build strength and balance and training systems that are training responses. These two things are obviously linked – the horse needs the proper musculature to carry out certain responses. But, IMO you can think more outside the box when trying to elicit a response than you can when trying to systematically build strength.

Yup.

When you're building strength and balance, you can think outside the box all you want, but the horse's physiology (and the rider's) will set the parameters of what is possible. You can change those things, too, to a certain degree. But that takes time and knowledge.


As has been said, there's nothing new under the sun.
When I first got into horses, I was blessed to have a mentor who is a gen-yoo-ine cowboy. He's been starting horses for 50+ years and says he'll hang up his chaps when he thinks he knows it all.

When he encounters a problem with a horse, he says he tries the first 10 or so things that have worked before. If those don't work, he goes to the next 10. If he and the horse still don't have it licked, he starts doing research, to see if someone else has come up with an approach he hasn't thought of. So far, he's never had to go past that point.

That box you're talking about is pretty big, Paula. ;)

carolprudm
Oct. 13, 2011, 10:32 AM
^
In regards to the above, I think that it's important to distinguish between training systems that build strength and balance and training systems that are training responses. These two things are obviously linked – the horse needs the proper musculature to carry out certain responses. But, IMO you can think more outside the box when trying to elicit a response than you can when trying to systematically build strength.

I think that it's good to explore other methods because the more you do so, the more you build your toolbox. What works for one horse (when training responsiveness) may not work for another. When you are teaching a horse to yield to the bit or move off your leg – these are response based (I do x and horse does y in response) – and there are many ways to get there. And you do need to be a bit creative or flexible sometimes.

One thing to keep in mind is WHY you are looking to “innovate”. Is it because the horse is not responding to the method you are trying, or because you are trying to build your toolbox? Or is it “just because you can.” Not saying that this is your reasoning – but I think that taking a look at the motives for trying new CAN help pinpoint which direction to look in – otherwise you are just trying things at random – which can lead to a very confused horsey partner.

However, if you're talking of thinking outside the box when trying to build up a horse's strength, I think that's less open for ”out of the box” thinking. Biomechanically, there are basic tenets that must be adhered to in order to build to collection. Biomechanically, there are only so many ways a horse can move – there are exercises specifically developed to target issues in suppleness and strength such as the shoulder-fore and shoulder-in. The rider and trainer must act as a physical therapist of sorts and look at the strengths and weaknesses of individual and go to work – systematically. The exercises are meant to build on each other and I think that looking for innovation in THIS area of training is not the best course of action.

IMHO in order to be successful thinking outside the box one has to know what is IN the box

paulaedwina
Oct. 13, 2011, 10:40 AM
I appreciate your input, but the only out of the box thing I was talking about was Yoga. What are you talking about? My horse is getting the same WTC as everybody else.

Paula

Reddfox
Oct. 13, 2011, 10:44 AM
IMHO in order to be successful thinking outside the box one has to know what is IN the box

Agreed. Study and understand what's in the box and why it's in the box. Build your toolbox, so that if you need to go outside the box, your out of the box thinking isn't just being pulled from thin air.

Paula, in your post you were talking about not being wedded to any particular style of training, so I inferred that you were talking about the whole process - not specifically about your forays into yoga. If that was in error, I apologize!

mp
Oct. 13, 2011, 10:59 AM
I appreciate your input, but the only out of the box thing I was talking about was Yoga. What are you talking about? My horse is getting the same WTC as everybody else.

Paula

How confusing. The post you quoted and replied to was about training systems, not yoga.

At any rate, I wish you the best in all your endeavors -- yoga, dog training, riding and anything else you decide to take up.

paulaedwina
Oct. 13, 2011, 11:11 AM
I've been using Yoga to find my balance and seat again, as well as riding without stirrups.

The horse's training is quite conventional.

Paula

katarine
Oct. 13, 2011, 11:39 AM
the only box I'm interested in today contains doughnuts.

monstrpony
Oct. 13, 2011, 11:44 AM
the only box I'm interesting in today contains doughnuts.

No point in thinkin' outside THAT box!

Reddfox
Oct. 13, 2011, 11:49 AM
the only box I'm interesting in today contains doughnuts.

Please excuse me while I gleefully climb inside that box...mmmm....chocolate donut with cream!:lol:

amm2cd
Oct. 13, 2011, 11:54 AM
I've been using Yoga to find my balance and seat again, as well as riding without stirrups.

The horse's training is quite conventional.

Paula

I don't see anything unconventional about outside exercises and riding without stirrups. People have been doing that forever... One quick glimpse at the George Morris clinic in Practical Horseman (isnt that why we read it anyway?), and He'll advise practicing without stirrups for at least 2 of the 4 photos...

I think what everyone is trying to say that first one builds their tool box before trying to invent their own tools.

paulaedwina
Oct. 13, 2011, 12:12 PM
I appreciate the sentiment, but it is quite general isn't it? I suppose I'm using these techniques of yoga and no stirrups to build my toolbox-my seat and balance? I assumed that was what posters were referencing with the "outside the box" comment. If not, please help me regain my bearings and tell me which unconventional horse training techniques I might have mentioned in this thread?

Paula

katarine
Oct. 13, 2011, 12:13 PM
Following a pony around and thinking you've accomplished something called ponying.

paulaedwina
Oct. 13, 2011, 12:21 PM
Wow, Katarine. I'm not sure why you continue to post in this thread when it seems all I do is annoy you.

Anyway...

Do you think a horse learning a behavior from another horse is unconventional? We do it all the time. For example, the new horse learns the feeding routine from the old horse(s). So why not this? From conversations with my trainer it's something that is used all the time. And as for calling it ponying, if you recall the earlier posts in this thread -I used the term to say that Fella was following a pony. I did take pains to explain that I do know what ponying is since one of the horses I considered for sale was a TB ponying horse on the track.

In fact another poster remarked that s/he used the method I described often when s/he was stuck.

What did I accomplish from this "unconventional" technique of following another horse and rider in the know?

1. I relaxed and stopped wrestling with Fella.
2. Fella relaxed and stayed straight.
3. We had a very productive session wherein I was able to ride again instead of wrestling. As another poster kindly observed -the key accomplishment was that I was able to relax.

What can I accomplish from this "unconventional" technique in the future?

1. According to my trainer it's a great way to introduce a horse to something like canter when he has no canter cue. Horses are herd animals so more than likely the follower will follow the leader. So what we plan on doing the next time I have the opportunity to do this is to introduce canter to Fella. Just like in clicker training (I guess you'd find that "unconventional" too) you can get the behavior before you name it.


Truly, I never thought that what we described was unconventional. I guess it really depends on your exposure.


Paula

Reddfox
Oct. 13, 2011, 12:24 PM
Paula, I think I may have un-intentially derailed things.

CatonLap (post 51) which is what you quoted seemed to be about Ambrey, a poster from a while ago. I don't believe that CatonLap was saying that you were using unconventional methods.

Your post (63) seemed to me to be about training systems...

The sport has been well documented and succesful training systems are numerous, without re-inventing it. Sometimes thinking outside the box just gets you an empty box.

This is an interesting sentiment. Of course it is not specific to any discipline. There are disadvantages and advantages of this school of thought. Of course tried and true helps you in that you may not have to reinvent the wheel. On the other hand this point of view is exceedingly static. It does not encourage innovation. It essentially says we've been skinning cats this way for eons and this is how we should continue to skin cats.

Personally it is not a philosophy I hold to. I think flexibility is a good thing and leads to innovation. My first dog was trained classically with the choke chain. My dogs thereafter were clicker trained. If I held to the philosophy described above I never would have learned operant conditioning.

As far as I can understand this - you choose which way you're going to go every time the challenge arises. So for me in these circumstances I am open to trying anything that seems to have merit. I am not wedded to any particular style of training, and goodness knows there is no one style of training in Dressage.

So I'm happy to think outside the box and see what benefits that might bring.

JMO of course
Paula

I responded directly to that because I thought that it was an important thought when taking the whole training of a horse and rider into consideration.

My fault. :/

mp
Oct. 13, 2011, 12:31 PM
Please excuse me while I gleefully climb inside that box...mmmm....chocolate donut with cream!:lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lwCq0VYGtQ&feature=related

And later that same day ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8d3KLmimD4&feature=related


Paula, I think I may have un-intentially derailed things.

CatonLap (post 51) which is what you quoted seemed to be about Ambrey, a poster from a while ago. I don't believe that CatonLap was saying that you were using unconventional methods.

Your post (63) seemed to me to be about training systems...


I responded directly to that because I thought that it was an important thought when taking the whole training of a horse and rider into consideration.

My fault. :/

Definitely your fault. Stop derailing immediately or you'll receive a PM from me later today.

Sunsets
Oct. 13, 2011, 12:50 PM
You know, I think a lot of this confusion might have been prevented had the thread title been:

I had brilliant luck “ponying” Fella! ;)

Anyway, I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with trying something like that. First off, it’s better than endlessly going in circles and picking, picking, picking and not getting anywhere.

Secondly, you got the chance to experience a different “feel” from your horse, so now when that happens again you can be like “AHA! I know what that is!”

I haven’t read anything that Paula has posted that suggests she’s being intentionally obtuse in her approach to riding. She’s bouncing ideas out there and trying to wrap her head and body around how to improve. She’s not trying to re-invent the training pyramid. (or work up to training level by riding in a Pelham, for example.)

paulaedwina
Oct. 13, 2011, 01:01 PM
I haven’t read anything that Paula has posted that suggests she’s being intentionally obtuse in her approach to riding. She’s bouncing ideas out there and trying to wrap her head and body around how to improve. She’s not trying to re-invent the training pyramid.

Oh thank goodness :lol::lol:

What this poster says!

Paula

JSwan
Oct. 13, 2011, 01:05 PM
Really? She reminds me a lot of Ambrey.

Hopefully she does not end up like her.

There's nothing wrong with being a novice or being ignorant. We all have to start somewhere. But like Ambrey, this poster argues about how she's right even when she steps in it and attempts to backpeddle furiously. I don't even visit this forum much anymore and I noticed it big time. Again, it's ok to be a novice/beginner - and to make mistakes. But when they're pointed out to you, by more experienced people - the way you react to it speaks volumes. And the OP argues, backpeddles, twists words, and deflects.

Whatever. I had my fill of it with Ambrey. So I'll step away from the computer and go back to cleaning the house.

Petstorejunkie
Oct. 13, 2011, 02:04 PM
IMHO in order to be successful thinking outside the box one has to know what is IN the box
oh my lord, that's a signature if I ever heard one!

katarine
Oct. 13, 2011, 02:18 PM
You can't bully me off your thread, and I can't bully you into listening.

Who wants a cruller?

paulaedwina
Oct. 13, 2011, 03:16 PM
Do as you wish, Katarine, but I can't help but wonder why you take the time to be so snarky. It may be that it is only my perception, but your snide signature, and your need to follow me from thread to thread to say something snarky just made me wonder.

Paula

katarine
Oct. 13, 2011, 03:32 PM
Extinction outburst anyone?

I'm tiring of the sig, I'll change it to something involving doughnuts.

I just find you fascinating, in a Real Housewives of Ponying sort of way. It can't be healthy, but...

paulaedwina
Oct. 13, 2011, 03:33 PM
I just find you fascinating, in a Real Housewives of Ponying sort of way. It can't be healthy, but...


Like I said.

Paula

katarine
Oct. 13, 2011, 03:49 PM
Oh I'm acting like a cow. I'm not laboring under any illusions. That's your job :)

CatOnLap
Oct. 13, 2011, 03:50 PM
Beyond the pale is right.

But thehorseproblem! you didn't answer any of my questions! You can't just drop a name like that and then back away without revealing more of what you know!

As for Paula, no I was not directing my comment about boxes personally to you.

Socrates was a much wiser and more often quoted man than I ( although I think I been quoted more on this thread than ever before) and he said something like:

If you want to argue with an established doctrine, first learn the established doctrine well enough to be able to be argue it.


That is a lesson that Ambrey did not study, and in regards to dressage, one I have been studying for nearly 40 years.

So far I have learned that if you can't ride it well in a snaffle, you won't be able to ride it any better in a pelham; that good hands come from a good seat; that being overweight severely compromises the development of a good seat; that a horse must be relaxed, in rhythm, forward, straight and suppleand develop impulsion before you can really feel its dressage; that most people and horses never get to the last part but that all sorts of folks think they have. All that stuff is in the box. I have also learned that my horses do one tempis way better without me than with me, and they make it look easy and will happily do it on a clicker command for a cookie. But that you can get disqualified for riding without a bridle or for using a clicker in the show ring. I have all this from great instructors and from personal experience. Well, they didn'tdisqualify me for riding without a bridle, but then, it was just a demo.

I'm still a grasshopper.

MyssMyst
Oct. 13, 2011, 03:52 PM
Paula, I think what people are saying is that you don't tend to take feedback gracefully. It's nothing personal, however I have noticed that you tend to argue your viewpoint heavily. If people don't agree with you, you just delete your post and get mad when people continue to discuss it. That's where people start to get irritated.

paulaedwina
Oct. 13, 2011, 04:01 PM
I come from a culture of debaters. That's what we do for kicks. On top of that I am very intense when I'm learning. What sounds to you like not taking feedback gracefully may just be me wanting more and more information and more specific examples. So what may seem to as skepticism, for example, is just me hungry for more information.

The couple of times I've deleted posts it wasn't because I was angry that people didn't agree with me, I was frustrated that I wasn't expressing what I meant to effectively.

That has only happened twice by the way.

It seems people get irritated for a lot of reasons. I've irritated people for the horse I chose. I've irritated people for talking about him too much. I've irritated people for not taking their particular advice. I've irritated people by just being here. Heck I guess I'm an irritating person.

Paula

CatOnLap
Oct. 13, 2011, 04:08 PM
I come from a culture of debaters. That's what we do for kicks. On top of that I am very intense when I'm learning. What sounds to you like not taking feedback gracefully may just be me wanting more and more information and more specific examples.

The couple of times I've deleted posts it wasn't because I was angry that people didn't agree with me, I was frustrated that I wasn't expressing what I meant to effectively.

That has only happened twice by the way.

It seems people get irritated for a lot of reasons. I've irritated people for the horse I chose. I've irritated people for talking about him too much. I've irritated people for not taking their particular advice. I've irritated people by just being here. Heck I guess I'm an irritating person.

Paula

I don't think your choice of horse irritates anyone. However, there is an old saying: "Don't try and teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig".

Your horse is a perfectly fine mount for the stage you are at, as far as I can see. But he will never do a PSG test even if you find a PSG prancing pony to follow around. I've ridden horses who have competed at the Olympics and PanAm Games. However, it doesn't mean I could compete at that level. It means some very good trainers were very kind to me. It took me about 20 years of intensive learning to go from riding such schoolmasters to training my first horse from scratch to the FEI level.

And I am STILL a grasshopper.

Reddfox
Oct. 13, 2011, 04:32 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lwCq0VYGtQ&feature=related

And later that same day ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8d3KLmimD4&feature=related



Definitely your fault. Stop derailing immediately or you'll receive a PM from me later today.

And I will need to send a PM to you for making me ruin my keyboard :lol:


CatOnLap - I love your line, "And I am STILL a grasshopper." Could I make that a new sig line?

johnnysauntie
Oct. 13, 2011, 04:36 PM
Rerider here, and never a really good rider to speak of. That said, it took me a few years to realize that I really suck. But now that I'm plumbing the depths of my incompetence, my trainer is making some progress as we're re-installing some key basics. In the meantime, I guess you could say that I'm schooling training level! :lol:

But what do I care. My horse is cute, and this is my hobby, and I have fun.

But in honor of this thread I'm adding the following line to my signature - a slightly different take on the pig saying offered above by CoL:

Don't wrestle with a pig. You just get dirty, and the pig likes it.

Carolinadreamin'
Oct. 13, 2011, 04:50 PM
Rerider here, and never a really good rider to speak of. That said, it took me a few years to realize that I really suck. But now that I'm plumbing the depths of my incompetence, my trainer is making some progress as we're re-installing some key basics. In the meantime, I guess you could say that I'm schooling training level! :lol:

But what do I care. My horse is cute, and this is my hobby, and I have fun!

I think you must be my alter!

mp
Oct. 13, 2011, 05:09 PM
Don't wrestle with a pig. You just get dirty, and the pig likes it.

:lol:

Redd, don't blame me if you spilled your beer on your keyboard.

paulaedwina
Oct. 13, 2011, 05:13 PM
Amazing.

Paula

Kadenz
Oct. 13, 2011, 06:22 PM
Originally Posted by carolprudm
IMHO in order to be successful thinking outside the box one has to know what is IN the box

I think this is SO right on. And it's not meant to be snarky; it's just a pretty spot-on observation from someone who realizes just HOW big the box really is.

Paula, there really isn't anything new in following another, more forward horse around the ring. It didn't teach your horse to go more forward; ie, he probably will revert to toe-dragging once the other horse is gone.

I myself experienced this when I was a beginner; the first time I rode in a lesson with another person, my trainer instructed me to maintain an exact length of space between myself and the other horse. It taught ME to rate MY HORSE. I realized that he was SO much more forward in the canter, because he was interested in following the other horse -not because of some magical new out-of-the-box training method.

But I didn't assume I had discovered something amazing; it was just that I finally realized what "forward" REALLY meant; and it showed me that I really had NOT been getting it by myself. That was the lesson - to get that on my own. Running around behind another horse isn't the lesson - learning to get the horse to respond to YOU, in the amount that YOU want, is the lesson.

Ghazzu
Oct. 13, 2011, 06:30 PM
I come from a culture of debaters. That's what we do for kicks.


And yet you regard a significant number of participants in the debate as "bullies".

How curious.

sid
Oct. 13, 2011, 06:37 PM
Haven't read the last page of posts, but true what Redfoxx and MP said on the last page.

Right now, I'm confused. The OP keeps switching from yoga to horse training.

Yoga is not going to get the horse forward.

Maybe the OP is an "existential" rider...? :winkgrin:

I've encountered a few that way. Nothing wrong with it unless their horse digresses and becomes problematic on the ground (seen that too...:no:). To each their own.

But I've found you can't talk "sense" to them because they just are all over the place. They want advice and the vast experience that many here have kindly shared...but just go off on a tangent. Yet they still want validation.

Frankly, I don't get it and just walk away.

That said, Paula I wish you much success on your journey. That said, it's important to know what you don't know and get help with someone who does know. You will progress much faster and your horse will be uber appreciative.:)

Kyzteke
Oct. 13, 2011, 06:55 PM
edited to delete what I said, since about 4 pgs of COTHers have said it far better....

Confidence is great....arrogance is not.

Countrywood
Oct. 13, 2011, 07:54 PM
I joined the post late, skimmed some of the replies and started getting whiplash from the back and forth!

A lot of depth and wisdom in the replies, for the most part, and a good heart and good intentions behind a somwhat subborn OP is my conclusion...:eek:

TheHorseProblem
Oct. 13, 2011, 09:03 PM
But thehorseproblem! you didn't answer any of my questions!

Why the hell would I do that?

Oh yes, the last time I talked to her, she said if you ever see CatOnLap on COTH tell her how much I regret not listening to her.

Not.

TheHorseProblem
Oct. 13, 2011, 09:05 PM
Confidence is great....arrogance is not.


Well said. It applies to many.

GingerJumper
Oct. 13, 2011, 09:32 PM
I rarely check the dressage board, but today I did and stumbled upon this. I hate to butt in with my juvenile understanding of the world, but it really does bother me to see the sarcasm and nasty tone present in some of this thread. No matter what the tone in others' writing is perceived to be, I feel like civility and courteous advice always have a place in any discussion. Civility doesn't mean sugarcoating or beating around the bush; you can be quite blunt but still be courteous or civil.

Butting out now. Carry on.

katarine
Oct. 13, 2011, 09:39 PM
Doughnut? someone lured you here, so I'll at least offer a goody.

GingerJumper
Oct. 13, 2011, 09:42 PM
Doughnut? someone lured you here, so I'll at least offer a goody.

I must admit, anytime I see something about Fella come up, I do stop by. I like following posters/their horses in their progress. :yes:

Oooh, I like doughnuts a lot...

sid
Oct. 13, 2011, 09:43 PM
Yum...:winkgrin:

TheHorseProblem
Oct. 13, 2011, 10:06 PM
Why the hell would I do that?

Oh yes, the last time I talked to her, she said if you ever see CatOnLap on COTH tell her how much I regret not listening to her.

Not.

I do hate being admonished by a kid :), so I will restate:

I would prefer not to answer your questions about my friend, CatOnLap, but I will tell her you asked about her.

Do you have any maple bars, Katarine?

netg
Oct. 14, 2011, 12:08 AM
Doughnut? someone lured you here, so I'll at least offer a goody.

I love that you spelled it that way.


Even if my riding skills tell me to reject those doughnuts so they can get better.

katarine
Oct. 14, 2011, 07:54 AM
We don't offer maple bars, however I do have some yummy old fashioned cake and some pumpkin spice with maple glaze. Will that suffice?

Donut looks like do-nut to me, so I'm old school on the spelling. Do-nut reminds me too much of my wild and wooly single days !

GingerJumper
Oct. 14, 2011, 08:14 AM
I do hate being admonished by a kid :), so I will restate:

I would prefer not to answer your questions about my friend, CatOnLap, but I will tell her you asked about her.

Do you have any maple bars, Katarine?

Not admonished you in particular otherwise I would have quoted something. :) I just tend to do that if I see a thread getting a little grumpy.

Geez, all this talk of food is making me hungry. Any gluten free options? :D

buck22
Oct. 14, 2011, 08:42 AM
I love that you spelled it that way.

Here here! I thought it was the correct spelling anyhow. Does spell check even recognize donut?

When on earth did it change to donut? Dunkin Donuts? Blech. Great trade name, laziness on the rest of us though.

I've got some sour cream doughnuts to share, and my favorites, fresh apple cider doughnuts with cinnamon sugar (the nice big granules).... with fresh hot coffee.... melt in your mouth heaven, mmmmm!

LarkspurCO
Oct. 14, 2011, 11:18 AM
And yet you regard a significant number of participants in the debate as "bullies".

How curious.

Paula didn't bring up bullying. Other people did.

(The following is not directed at Ghazzu)

I don't understand why people get so annoyed by her posts. Paula may not be responding and communicating according to your preference, but she has been civil and respectful. Remember that getting annoyed is your choice. I think there has been some interesting points made here (aside from people getting up in her grill and the doughnut talk).


Speaking of doughnuts, I've never been a fan. Not that they don't taste great and not that I don't always want to eat one when I see one, but every time I do I get this stick feeling in my stomach about 30 minutes later -- a ball of gummy grease. Blech!


I heard a saying once, and I think it applies universally: Shut up and ride.

:D:D:D

ThreeFigs
Oct. 14, 2011, 11:29 AM
I used to have that shirt!

Wish I still had it...

TheHorseProblem
Oct. 14, 2011, 11:46 AM
Paula didn't bring up bullying. Other people did.

(The following is not directed at Ghazzu)

I don't understand why people get so annoyed by her posts. Paula may not be responding and communicating according to your preference, but she has been civil and respectful.

I guess you missed this one, Beasmom.

Also, deja vu on the OP.

ThreeFigs
Oct. 14, 2011, 12:07 PM
Why, no, I didn't miss it.

What's your point, THP? I was simply remarking on the "Shut up and ride" shirt I used to have.

TheHorseProblem
Oct. 14, 2011, 12:18 PM
Why, no, I didn't miss it.

What's your point, THP? I was simply remarking on the "Shut up and ride" shirt I used to have.

r.e. why people get annoyed--not much civility in the name-calling and such

LarkspurCO
Oct. 14, 2011, 12:27 PM
I used to have that shirt!

Wish I still had it...

I think that could be arranged...:cool:

I'd like to have one myself, and give one to KC. Maybe we could have some printed up.

katarine
Oct. 14, 2011, 12:40 PM
THP, do snarky PMs get a civility discount?

TheHorseProblem
Oct. 14, 2011, 12:41 PM
THP, do snarky PMs get a civility discount?

Baker's dozen.

CatOnLap
Oct. 14, 2011, 04:46 PM
I do hate being admonished by a kid :), so I will restate:

I would prefer not to answer your questions about my friend, CatOnLap, but I will tell her you asked about her.



I am beginning to think you may be much closer to Ambrey than I first imagined. As in sharing the same skin.

No matter, she never paid any attention to me when she was first around and also had the habit of quoting herself...

google "Smokey" and " warmbloods for sale" and look what comes up as the first entry.

Still for sale. Sadly overpriced for today's market where he has been for over a year. Plodding along and raising dust clouds and a body condition score that would make any buyer concerned about insulin resistance.

Knowing the prices for board in the SoCal area, after all that time, his board has cost more than his sale price. Better advice was offered.

JMurray
Oct. 14, 2011, 06:36 PM
This thread is a keeper.

I don't remember Ambrey really but I do SLC/SLC2. Funniest PM I ever got was from her, saying if I wanted to get my horse to stretch down, I needed to have someone walk/run next to him when I rode with a bucket of apples. I was LMAO when I got that PM. She was a real trip.

SillyHorse
Oct. 14, 2011, 07:18 PM
and for the record, SLC2 was not banned, she had surgery on her hands and was able to get back to riding.
If you believe that I have a nice piece of swampland I'd like to sell you. :lol:

alto
Oct. 14, 2011, 09:42 PM
google "Smokey" and " warmbloods for sale" and look what comes up as the first entry.
Entry #1 (http://smokyriversporthorses.com/)

Entry #2 (http://www.warmbloods-for-sale.com/HorseDetail.asp?HorseID=29114&UserID=6234)

Or did you mean this lil fattie (http://www.warmbloods-for-sale.com/HorseDetail.asp?HorseID=14662&UserID=5972)

or perhaps this plodder (http://www.warmbloods-for-sale.com/HorseDetail.asp?HorseID=29145&UserID=11832)

hmmmm ..... I think I'll take the horse behind Door #2 ... not that keen on grey but with "Smokey" as a prerequisite I suspect I'll not do any better :sigh:

Carolinadreamin'
Oct. 14, 2011, 10:04 PM
What exactly is an American Warmblood???

I like any kind of doughnuts, just not the creme filled kind.

alto
Oct. 14, 2011, 10:29 PM
A type of horse that remains 100% sound on ZERO maintenance :confused:

- I like a horse with some history of vet checks & farrier visits & such ...

Actually (http://www.americanwarmblood.com/)

Watermark Farm (http://www.watermark-farm.net/index.html) posts on here as Tasker & could answer questions about the AWR :)

quietann
Oct. 15, 2011, 07:54 PM
This is starting to remind me too much of the Mean Girls I dealt with when I first had my mare... find someplace public, but not currently read by the target, make all kinds of nasty comments about her and oh, I am 100% certain somebody will be sure Ambrey finds out about it and comes to look at it.

In my case... make up a public livejournal alter that writes "from the POV of quietann's horse" and make it as bitchy and hateful of quietann as possible, and then oh start slipping in comments from that alter in the main LJ community where the quietann-bashing is going on, so she can then see the *really* awful stuff.

It's not funny to pull this shite on anyone, people.

quietann
Oct. 15, 2011, 07:58 PM
A type of horse that remains 100% sound on ZERO maintenance :confused:

- I like a horse with some history of vet checks & farrier visits & such ...


oh c'mon, you KNOW what is meant, a horse that remains sound without joint supplements, joint injections, adequan or similar products, special shoes, etc. Which is more than can be said for a lot of dressage horses.

Ghazzu
Oct. 15, 2011, 09:57 PM
This is starting to remind me too much of the Mean Girls I dealt with when I first had my mare... find someplace public, but not currently read by the target, make all kinds of nasty comments about her and oh, I am 100% certain somebody will be sure Ambrey finds out about it and comes to look at it.

In my case... make up a public livejournal alter that writes "from the POV of quietann's horse" and make it as bitchy and hateful of quietann as possible, and then oh start slipping in comments from that alter in the main LJ community where the quietann-bashing is going on, so she can then see the *really* awful stuff.

It's not funny to pull this shite on anyone, people.

Could you possibly translate this?
I have no clue what you're describing here, though it sounds fairly ugly.

alto
Oct. 15, 2011, 10:23 PM
oh c'mon, you KNOW what is meant, a horse that remains sound without joint supplements, joint injections, adequan or similar products, special shoes, etc. Which is more than can be said for a lot of dressage horses.

Yes I do - I bought that horse
-never had his feet done
-never had any dewormer
-never had any vaccines
-never had a vet check

& that odd dentition, likely a result of an untreated broken jaw, his "shyness", the vet removed multiple beans & found a "hole" where there shouldn't be one ...

So I don't like to read 100% sound on ZERO maintenance in regards to any creature.


BUT actually my sarcasm was directed at the anti-Ambrey crowd & the absurd notion that any of the horses pulled up by the specified Google Search were

Plodding along and raising dust clouds and a body condition score that would make any buyer concerned about insulin resistance.

TheHorseProblem
Oct. 15, 2011, 11:00 PM
quietann, I tried to PM you but your mailbox is full.

I just wanted to thank you for what you said.

quietann
Oct. 16, 2011, 01:18 AM
Could you possibly translate this?
I have no clue what you're describing here, though it sounds fairly ugly.

It was something that happened a few years back, an example of Mean Girls deciding to pick on me because I made myself vulnerable. It did get very, very ugly, though in the end, for me, things turned out OK. Was interesting to have some of those MGs come back, months or years later, to apologize for what they'd done... especially since I am old enough to be their mother, in most cases.

So I was just making a comparison to some of the comments being made about Ambrey, and to a lesser extent, Paula E. I don't think it does anyone any good at all.