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Heinz 57
Oct. 5, 2011, 12:52 PM
Wondering if I'm imagining things... Saw an ad on a local CL for this guy. Doesn't say where they got him, and they don't know how much/what kind of training he has had. Maybe I'm too sympathetic, but my eye is telling me he looks like he was someone's (very tolerant, willing) dressage horse now being ridden very poorly by a western/gaming rider.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5x_L5aaHGE

I'd be interested to see what he does with a knowledgeable rider. Am I seeing things? ETA - if you skip to about 2:00, the video is better.

oscar123
Oct. 5, 2011, 12:57 PM
Ugh - saw this as on CL. What are these people thinking. The horse has to be a saint......

Oberon13
Oct. 5, 2011, 12:59 PM
Awwww, poor pony. I like him. He obviously has the attitude of a saint, putting up with that kind of riding. He does look like he's had some kind of training in the past, because he looks like he knows how to sit back and use himself. I'd like to see him after someone who knows what they're doing rides him for a bit to build up his muscle.

Sunsets
Oct. 5, 2011, 01:02 PM
I just took a peek at a bit of the video, and if I lived near there I'd definitely go check him out!

I agree with your thinking, he looks as though he's a dressage horse trying to interpret what the heck that woman on board is asking him to do. He's very good at counter-canter! And I think she was trying to get him to "jog" and he was all like "you want collection, right? I need some leg input here!"

Edited to add: I watched the whole thing - I love him! What a tolerant boy he is, and he was game for anything. "Want me to jump the log? OK!" I would almost go as far as to say he tried to give her a passage at one point too. I wish she would have let him move out at the trot, hard to see what he's got under the hood.

propspony
Oct. 5, 2011, 01:11 PM
Really? I saw an extremely hot, green OTTB gelding ignoring the rider. He looks to me like he's curled up in a ball, behind her leg having meltdowns. He calms down a bit towards the end, but to me he doesn't look like he's had a whole lot of reschooling once he came off the track... though he looks like he could be a nice horse with some work.

ThreeFigs
Oct. 5, 2011, 01:16 PM
AAAGH! Someone needs to rehome him. That video preaks my heart.

What a nice fellow.

Oberon13
Oct. 5, 2011, 01:17 PM
Of course he's ignoring her! Did you see where her legs, seat and hands were for most of the video? Out in left field most of the time (and flying around randomly at other times). I think he's confused and crammed for sure...but I see glimmers of some sort of knowledge in there beyond the track. Of course, we'll never really know unless we see someone sit on him who knows how to ask for such things....anyone willing to go try him out? ;)

bkkone
Oct. 5, 2011, 01:19 PM
Really? I saw an extremely hot, green OTTB gelding ignoring the rider. He looks to me like he's curled up in a ball, behind her leg having meltdowns. He calms down a bit towards the end, but to me he doesn't look like he's had a whole lot of reschooling once he came off the track... though he looks like he could be a nice horse with some work.

I see more of this. I don't see that he was someone's trained dressage horse.

Jeannette, formerly ponygyrl
Oct. 5, 2011, 01:22 PM
Think he's got a right lead in there somewhere??

geldingsRgreat
Oct. 5, 2011, 01:27 PM
This:
Really? I saw an extremely hot, green OTTB gelding ignoring the rider. He looks to me like he's curled up in a ball, behind her leg having meltdowns. He calms down a bit towards the end, but to me he doesn't look like he's had a whole lot of reschooling once he came off the track... though he looks like he could be a nice horse with some work.


Don't mistake the left lead only, as a counter canter....that's an OTTB who just wants to go on the race lead.

Heinz 57
Oct. 5, 2011, 01:28 PM
Really? I saw an extremely hot, green OTTB gelding ignoring the rider. He looks to me like he's curled up in a ball, behind her leg having meltdowns. He calms down a bit towards the end, but to me he doesn't look like he's had a whole lot of reschooling once he came off the track... though he looks like he could be a nice horse with some work.

The ad itself claims he's TBxWB, so not an OTTB. and 15 years old, so unlikely to be recently OTT.

No telling what bit they have in his mouth, but this girl rides exactly like a lot of the gamers I know. Always revving the engine and choking the horse back, back, back. Like driving with two feet. He looks VERY confused!

ETA: Jeanette, I bet it is in there. If this girl is like the ones I mentioned above, kick = canter. If he's been out of work and the right lead was his weak side, he probably isn't inclined to pick it up given the choice. He's near me, but I already have too many horses and would hate to go tire-kick just to satisfy my (or COTH's) curiosity.

ThreeFigs
Oct. 5, 2011, 01:32 PM
I don't believe that. I had an OTTB who had both leads. Watch TB's coming down the home stretch. They often change leads. The idea they have only a left lead is a fallacy.

I've seen more Western horses "with only one" lead than OTTB's.

It's the rider, not the horse's fault.

ThreeFigs
Oct. 5, 2011, 01:35 PM
Whoops, haha! Missed that. A WB cross -- not OTTB, even more likely he's had good training somewhere back there.

I wonder if the rider knows one lead from the other. She made no effort to correct.

I'd love him -- but too far away and I've got no more $$ for horses.

Sunsets
Oct. 5, 2011, 01:37 PM
I don't know, to me, he just looks too balanced to be green. But maybe he's just naturally athletic and good at looking fancy.

I am nowhere near an expert and I'm probably just imagining things. I do think someone should go and try him out though.

alto
Oct. 5, 2011, 01:39 PM
Ignoring the rider! :confused:
Poor guy tried very hard to follow rider's aids to Go & Whoa at the same time :( :no:

He looks stiff & NQR to me - may be saddle related - but has a real Try.

RedmondDressage
Oct. 5, 2011, 01:57 PM
I don't know, to me, he just looks too balanced to be green.

I agree... Especially in the canter work. He has no clue what his awful rider wants from him but he appears to be trying his best to give her a collected canter. Too bad he's not 8 or 10, he totally looks like a worthwhile project but I've already got one retired guy and one getting fairly close so I need a youngster. Out of curiosity, what are they asking for him and where is he located?

Heinz 57
Oct. 5, 2011, 02:13 PM
It's a 541 area code, but posted on Portland CL (use search term "TBxWarmblood"). The number on google comes up with other ads in Hermiston. I'm thinking they may have picked him up at one of the big sales and are trying to make money off him?

JCS
Oct. 5, 2011, 02:29 PM
I like him a lot, whether he's green and naturally athletic/balanced or has had some training. I enjoyed watching the rider show off his "lead changes." Left lead, trot, left lead in the wrong direction. :lol:

TheHotSensitiveType
Oct. 5, 2011, 02:30 PM
... his awful rider wants from him ...

Disclaimer, I do not know this horse or rider, but a lot of posters on the dressage forum are just plain mean! Awful rider? Let's see you ride. She seems to do ok with what looks like a naturally athletic horse that is extremely hot and green. I do not see a trained dressage horse here.

esdressage
Oct. 5, 2011, 02:32 PM
I'd go look at him if I was in the area… 15 is really not too old to be working with a horse like this if he's structurally not beat up from a life of hard riding. There are tons of pastures out in Oregon, so hopefully he's been bumming around one of those with most of his time! It would be worth checking him out, at least, at this price. What a sweetheart and a pretty boy. I think he could be made into something quite nice, as long as there's nothing funky going on keeping him off of that right lead.

Eclectic Horseman
Oct. 5, 2011, 02:39 PM
The ad itself claims he's TBxWB, so not an OTTB. and 15 years old, so unlikely to be recently OTTB.


IME, lots of horses advertised as crossbreds have lip tattoos.
:lol:

alibi_18
Oct. 5, 2011, 02:49 PM
Disclaimer, I do not know this horse or rider, but a lot of posters on the dressage forum are just plain mean! Awful rider? Let's see you ride. She seems to do ok with what looks like a naturally athletic horse that is extremely hot and green. I do not see a trained dressage horse here.

That is neither hot or green. That is badly ridden.

I don't see this rider trying to supple, soften or do anything in order to relax that supposebly 15yrs old green hot horse.

This person has other horses for sell. Plenty of videos to appreciate her rider style but I wouldn't put my kid on her 'kid safe'.

Heinz 57
Oct. 5, 2011, 03:00 PM
Awful rider? Let's see you ride. She seems to do ok with what looks like a naturally athletic horse that is extremely hot and green.

She looks like a perfectly capable rider for her discipline of choice, which according to her username is barrel racing. She is riding the horse like a barrel horse and he looks pretty confused and a little irritated that she never softens.

LarkspurCO
Oct. 5, 2011, 03:18 PM
Very cute horse but his musculature does not suggest any sort of serious dressage training background. Looks like he could be a lot of fun to ride.

propspony
Oct. 5, 2011, 03:23 PM
The ad itself claims he's TBxWB, so not an OTTB. and 15 years old, so unlikely to be recently OTT.


The youtube ad says he's a TB. I don't see a lot of WB in the way he's built... my guess is that he came from a sale or something like that and they're guessing at his parentage. WBx because he's such a big boned guy. Seems sweet and all.

JCS
Oct. 5, 2011, 03:24 PM
The text in the CL ad is telling, and has some additional info. Sounds like maybe she did just pick him up at a sale of some sort and doesn't know his background.


looking for an english horse? this is the guy for you
15 yr old TBxWarmblood gelding a good 16.2 hands
this horse has had some training
i don't know a ton about dressage but this horse moves off the slightest leg or rein cue
he doesn't seem to want to go on the right lead but that's his only problem and we are working on it
he jumps VERY willingly. this boy LOVES to work. he could go all day
he is a bit thin right now, but he is gaining weight everyday.
he is such a sweetheart and has a cute personality.
he is not hot headed but not for beginners.
very very very fit horse.
rides in a snaffle, doesn't need a harsh bit

ThreeFigs
Oct. 5, 2011, 03:29 PM
Thanks for that, JCS. His training could be from years ago and poor riding or no riding can explain the lack of "dressage muscles".

My gelding is just coming off a year's recovery from an injury. Looking at him a few weeks ago, before starting him back to work, NO ONE would be able to tell from his topline & backside that he had been showing 2nd level last summer.

I hope someone nice buys him. He looks like such a good fellow. Props to the rider in the video. I think she recognizes the horse's ability & background.

Equibrit
Oct. 5, 2011, 03:36 PM
Awful rider. Slightly hinkey front left.

Velvet
Oct. 5, 2011, 03:40 PM
Definitely worth a look-see. Maybe even a rescue--from this person. ;) Meaning, give him a job he likes and he'd probably shine. He does look like good for 15. Might have some issues--might not. Worth checking! :yes:

RedmondDressage
Oct. 5, 2011, 04:23 PM
I would definitely go take a look at him if he was what I was looking for, he's not too far away from me either. I bet he'd make a great lower level dressage horse for someone in the short term and he even looks like he may have the potential to make it beyond 1st/2nd level with the right rider and some time. I bet these people would unload him for less than the asking price and he'd be steal of a deal if he's sound. Shoot, I'm almost tempted to go look at him as a project to work with for a year and re-sell. This horse really strikes me as a guy that wants someone to love him and keep him forever though so I don't really think that would be helping him much.

Velvet
Oct. 5, 2011, 04:35 PM
Did I miss it? What exactly is the price on this guy?

Cindyg
Oct. 5, 2011, 04:51 PM
Loved the slo mo, dramatic black and white, and the sudden shifts to the still shots.

Bless his heart. I do hope my horse thinks I'm a better rider than that horse thinks she is.

RedmondDressage
Oct. 5, 2011, 04:53 PM
They've got him listed at $2500. Like other people on the thread I'm getting the feeling they picked this guy up at a sale. I'm not sure why else these people would end up with this horse and it sounds like they haven't had him long. I would bet they didn't pay more than $1000 if that. The comment in the ad about how they are "working on" the lead issue makes me want someone to pick him up ASAP as I can't see them doing anything but ruining this horse based on that video :-/

esdressage
Oct. 5, 2011, 05:04 PM
Shoot, I'm almost tempted to go look at him as a project to work with for a year and re-sell. This horse really strikes me as a guy that wants someone to love him and keep him forever though so I don't really think that would be helping him much.

You should do it! He strikes me as a guy who wants a capable and sensitive rider to help him be happy in his work, and if you can do that, then find him a great home in a year, I don't think you'll hear any complaints from him! :yes:

RedmondDressage
Oct. 5, 2011, 05:47 PM
You should do it! He strikes me as a guy who wants a capable and sensitive rider to help him be happy in his work, and if you can do that, then find him a great home in a year, I don't think you'll hear any complaints from him!

OMG I have a very sweet and wonderful boyfriend but I'm pretty sure he would freakin' KILL me if I did :lol: Hahaha. I have two pasture ornaments at home already and an 18 y.o. who costs me an arm and a leg in board, lessons, shows, etc... AND I tend to be really bad at the whole actually selling the horse thing... They tend to come to my house and weasel their way into my heart and a permanent living situation.

On the other hand, I do have three unoccupied stalls at home... And a newly re-footed arena with no horse to ride in it.... Hmmmmmm.... ::insert devil smiley here::

ETA: I sent the video to a good horse friend to see if she talks me out of going to look. LOL

RedmondDressage
Oct. 5, 2011, 06:09 PM
OP - Are you thinking of going out to look?

Heinz 57
Oct. 5, 2011, 06:48 PM
No, I have three already (which is two too many!), two of which are still in the 'project' stage.

If you do go look, PLEASE take someone and video!

netg
Oct. 5, 2011, 07:38 PM
OMG I have a very sweet and wonderful boyfriend but I'm pretty sure he would freakin' KILL me if I did :lol: Hahaha. I have two pasture ornaments at home already and an 18 y.o. who costs me an arm and a leg in board, lessons, shows, etc... AND I tend to be really bad at the whole actually selling the horse thing... They tend to come to my house and weasel their way into my heart and a permanent living situation.

On the other hand, I do have three unoccupied stalls at home... And a newly re-footed arena with no horse to ride in it.... Hmmmmmm.... ::insert devil smiley here::

ETA: I sent the video to a good horse friend to see if she talks me out of going to look. LOL

I have a friend who I would have sent the video to if the horse were nearby. I believe she would have talked me into going to look, as I've been tossing around the idea of another horse.


I would not be surprised to find out this horse has a tattoo. I would not be surprised to find out this horse is younger than the ad states.

If anyone reading this thread goes to check out the horse, PLEASE fill us in! It definitely looks like a poor horse/rider match in the video, which doesn't necessarily mean the rider is terrible, just definitely not a dressage rider, and she is distressing the horse with her riding. To me, everything about the horse in the video says "This is freaking me out and WRONG!" but I would expect a different horse completely from a sensitive rider.

Also, nothing about that horse says WB to me. It says TB or TBxQH. And it also says probably training, that the horse's response to rein contact is to give and try to reach for consistency even if the rein pulls are too hard for it, not to flip its head up and get above the bit.

angel
Oct. 5, 2011, 08:01 PM
I think this horse does have a bit of training. I too would suspect some dressage in his background, just because he carries himself fairly well. I also think he has been previously ridden in a double bridle, or he would be fighting his bit more in this video.

I'd say that this rider probably also lacks finesse in her western riding as she is not even putting the western saddle on the horse's back correctly at the beginning of the tape. More a yah-who sort of rider, and as someone else said, probably a barrel rider as they tend to do lots of that leaning on the turns.

But, you know something....have have seen riders in other disciplines doing stuff equally as bad in riding, and when I was this rider's age...a long time ago:eek:...my riding also left much to be desired. I was not trying to market horses with my riding though.

EqTrainer
Oct. 5, 2011, 08:17 PM
I don't believe that. I had an OTTB who had both leads. Watch TB's coming down the home stretch. They often change leads. The idea they have only a left lead is a fallacy.

I've seen more Western horses "with only one" lead than OTTB's.

It's the rider, not the horse's fault.

Thank god someone said this. Really folks... They DO do other things than gallop and canter. They even trot AND walk them!

Megaladon
Oct. 5, 2011, 08:29 PM
He looks stiff & NQR to me - may be saddle related - but has a real Try.

His right (I believe it was) hind leg looks...strange or different and I thinking maybe that has something to do with the canter issues.

He seems really nice, like an amiable fellow. Perhaps he was someone's project horse that developed a lameness issue, they decided to unload, this person picked him up at auction and we find him here on CL.

I would go take a look. :)

Beentheredonethat
Oct. 5, 2011, 08:48 PM
Damn nice horse. The rider may not know how to ride him for what he's trained, but clearly realizes he has some talent. All of the slow mo's show clear, relaxed, strong collection. That is NOT hot, but a horse trying to do what the rider asks. Damn, if you got any horse to take half steps like that, you're doing a good job. Look at how well he's carrying and stepping under behind. Horses who are lame behind do not step under that far or that easily in such a slow cadence.

If I were in the area . . . I'm down horses, and that sure looks like a nice horse to put six months of reconditioning on and sell as a really good riding horse. What a great attitude.

propspony
Oct. 5, 2011, 09:01 PM
Thank god someone said this. Really folks... They DO do other things than gallop and canter. They even trot AND walk them!


um... nobody said anything disparaging about OTTBs. I've got one too, bought her straight off the track, and I think she's just about perfect. (heh heh) I just said this horse reminded me of one who was a bit on the "spicy" side and hadn't had a great deal of retraining yet. They do want them to accept contact while they're on the track, that's not exclusive to dressage. An athletic and hyped up individual can get this under himself, all by himself, and he certainly looks cute and willing when she pops him over the jump at the end.

There was no put down intended, just an observation.

EqTrainer
Oct. 5, 2011, 09:17 PM
The "left lead" only thing makes me craaaaaaazy.

propspony
Oct. 5, 2011, 09:20 PM
lol. I can understand that. ;-p

Ironically enough my mare's tough lead was her right. But then I think she *tries* to be different.

Petstorejunkie
Oct. 5, 2011, 10:33 PM
one thing I've noticed is that upper level dressage horses can be "stingey" with their canters if you don't ask correctly. I suspect the lead issue is rider error.
if he were $500 and local I would have already written a check. he looks like something to take a chance on.

kristinq
Oct. 5, 2011, 10:46 PM
He looks to me like he's curled up in a ball, behind her leg having meltdowns.

:lol: What leg? All I see her using is her hands. He sure is tolerant and looks promising if someone would just ride him like a horse and not a motorcycle.

Heinz 57
Oct. 6, 2011, 12:08 AM
if he were $500 and local I would have already written a check. he looks like something to take a chance on.

I won't lie, if he was $500 or less I'd go take a good long look at him. Cuz, y'know, I don't already have two teenage horses AND a greenbroke 8 year old. :D

In looking up the sale horses at Hermiston... I ran across a 1997 Trakehner gelding. Looked him upon USEF and he's got a record, albeit a short one of dressage shows back in 06-7. See him in the catalog, Siegfreid, No.9: http://hermistonhorsesale.com/OctCatalog.pdf

NOTE: the Trak gelding is marked for the UPCOMING sale. Just thought it was of interest for those in the area. :)

PiaffePlease
Oct. 6, 2011, 12:18 AM
Think he's got a right lead in there somewhere??


I was thinking the same thing. All the cantering and not once did he pick it up.

He does look really confused by this girl hanging on his mouth and swinging her legs all around.

easyrider
Oct. 6, 2011, 01:03 AM
Looks like DSLD/ESPA to me.

LarkspurCO
Oct. 6, 2011, 01:04 AM
Looks like DSLD/ESPA to me.

Translation, please?

BaroquePony
Oct. 6, 2011, 01:10 AM
It would be nice to see himwith a rider that isn't banging on his back. He looks super patient.

TheJenners
Oct. 6, 2011, 01:47 AM
Looks like DSLD/ESPA to me.


Right hind, at 0:55, holy crap yes. :eek:

netg
Oct. 6, 2011, 02:01 AM
Thank god someone said this. Really folks... They DO do other things than gallop and canter. They even trot AND walk them!

I do always find it funny that folks are so confused. TBs do lead changes on the track, and typically aren't so hard to teach them when not at a gallop. They also exercise and work in opposite directions, so have to take turns both ways. My guy cracks me up in turnout, because it doesn't matter which direction he's going, he switches to the wrong lead on straightaways and back to the correct lead prior to corners. Old habits die hard!

esdressage
Oct. 6, 2011, 02:22 AM
Translation, please?

DSLD (Degenerative Suspensory Ligament Desimitis)
ESPA (Equine Systemic Proteoglycan Accumulation)

Seeing the horse in person would either support or negate that (as would a vet check) - it's usually outwardly apparent in the suspensory or you can see it in flexion tests.

S A McKee
Oct. 6, 2011, 07:21 AM
Really? I saw an extremely hot, green OTTB gelding ignoring the rider. He looks to me like he's curled up in a ball, behind her leg having meltdowns. He calms down a bit towards the end, but to me he doesn't look like he's had a whole lot of reschooling once he came off the track... though he looks like he could be a nice horse with some work.

Exactly. No dressage experience there. Just a backyard horse/rider having some fun. Maybe very little training for the horse or rider.

And to the OP. That rider probably would see a dressage rider with swinging legs, hands pulling on horse's mouth as 'odd'. All in what you are used to.

The horse looks to be well cared for.

mildot
Oct. 6, 2011, 07:38 AM
Lady that's a horse not a drum. Quit banging on it.

I cringed along with him when that woman dropped a saddle on him from a foot up above his back.

ThreeFigs
Oct. 6, 2011, 08:56 AM
That's typical Western. I saw it all the time at the ranch. Made me cringe, too.

S A Mckee, "That rider probably would see a dressage rider with swinging legs, hands pulling on horse's mouth as 'odd'. All in what you are used to."

What are YOU used to? Any dressage rider with swinging legs that pulls on the horse is either no dressage rider at all or needs more lessons.

Has anyone gone to look at this horse?

witherbee
Oct. 6, 2011, 09:19 AM
I won't lie, if he was $500 or less I'd go take a good long look at him. Cuz, y'know, I don't already have two teenage horses AND a greenbroke 8 year old. :D

I would imagine you could offer $500 or even $1000 less for him! Worth a try...

CFFarm
Oct. 6, 2011, 10:36 AM
Thank god someone said this. Really folks... They DO do other things than gallop and canter. They even trot AND walk them!


Yeah, they're SUPPOSED to change leads.

In this market I think they are asking too much. I'd go get a closer look if he was under $1000 (if I was looking).

Heinz 57
Oct. 6, 2011, 10:42 AM
And to the OP. That rider probably would see a dressage rider with swinging legs, hands pulling on horse's mouth as 'odd'. All in what you are used to.

The horse looks to be well cared for.

I ride with people every single day that ride exactly like her. I'm not confused by her riding, I know exactly how her type does things. And no, they don't watch me ride and think it's odd, but then again my legs aren't swinging (:confused:) and I'm not a puller. Put one of them on my [trained] gelding and the ride looks much the same (yes, I've done it.) as what you see in this video. Majorly confused horsie wondering WTF is this person doing?!?

More importantly, that is NOT a 'well cared for' horse. Did you click on the ad and look at the photo album? Ribby, dull, hardly a stitch of fat on him anywhere. In my barn, that doesn't constitute 'well cared for'.

LarkspurCO
Oct. 6, 2011, 10:43 AM
Right hind, at 0:55, holy crap yes. :eek:

Oh, I see what you mean.:( And it could well explain the refusal to canter on the right lead.

Auventera Two
Oct. 6, 2011, 11:04 AM
I see a lame horse. DSLD - absolutely! Look at the right hind at the very beginning of the video. He looks so stiff and painful throughout the whole thing. I couldn't stand to watch it. Green, confused, getting packed up behind the rider's "leg." (There really isn't any leg for him to listen to, but you know what I mean).

If a person seriously wanted a riding horse, they would absolutely need good ultrasounds on both hinds. Probably fronts as well. That horse is in bad shape. And the damned idiots riding him are too stupid to see it. Both hinds are dropped and post legged. I would be willing to bet within 5 years the horse is completely unusable.

rugbygirl
Oct. 6, 2011, 11:24 AM
^ I would be willing to bet that the horse isn't serviceably sound NOW, and that's why he ended up at the sale to begin with.

Too good to be true...usually is.

good booie
Oct. 6, 2011, 11:25 AM
I see a lame horse too. Makes me sad that unless someone gets him and justs let him be and does just light riding he will have a crappy life. poor fella. Honestly, couldn't even watch the whole video. people suck.

inspired
Oct. 6, 2011, 11:47 AM
Dressage folk can be so mean.

Riders from other disciplines DO see what we do as "pulling" on the reins.

This rider is keeping her leg off almost the whole time except when she is carefully bumping with her leg to try to move him forward without getting more go than she wanted. It is a different style of riding and way of using the leg than what we do. She is fairly quiet with her hands, and at least she isn't trying to pull his head down (even if he did fall behind the bit a bunch).

This horse looks like just about every other western horse in my neck of the woods. I don't think there's any reason to think he's had dressage training. I've seen plenty of ropers go just like this, actually.

It's not my cup of tea, but who am I to judge?

The western folks around here don't understand what I do at all. I would be horrified to find out that one of them had put a video of me up for discussion on one of their board and tore me up all because what I did was different.

good booie
Oct. 6, 2011, 11:59 AM
Well then you must have a lot of lame horses in your neck of the woods....

signed,
mean dressage person

Heinz 57
Oct. 6, 2011, 12:04 PM
I would be horrified to find out that one of them had put a video of me up for discussion on one of their board and tore me up all because what I did was different.

Excuse me. I posted the video to discuss a horse that is FOR SALE in an ad posted on the internet (with video link) for the world to see. I didn't dig up the video of some private horse and ask the dressage folk to crucify the rider, I asked if anyone else saw what I was seeing in the horse, which was previous dressage training.

That area of the state isn't a mecca for english people. I don't know what kind of western horses you have wherever you are, but the ones around here certainly don't look like that!

inspired
Oct. 6, 2011, 12:18 PM
Heinz,

I did not mean for you to take that as being about your origional post. Please forgive me. The tone of the whole thread is what bothers me. It gives dressage people a bad rap. Clearly when someone puts pics and vids on the internet for any reason, they become fair game. That doesn't make it right to be mean.

I've seen all sorts of different kinds of western riding in different parts of the country. When I moved here, if was different for me, too. ....but that's what a lot of them look like. I saw a LOT LESS kicking and pulling in this video than what I see from most riders, quite frankly.

alto
Oct. 6, 2011, 12:30 PM
Dressage folk can be so mean.


This horse looks like just about every other western horse in my neck of the woods.

The western folks around here don't understand what I do at all. I would be horrified to find out that one of them had put a video of me up for discussion on one of their board and tore me up all because what I did was different.

You need to watch more of this broker's videos, NQR & wannabehorses (one "barrel" mare I watched is anything but :lol: ) ... running adds on CL & linking public youtube videos invites "discussion'.

It's not the style, rider is not trained or skilled but likely does a good job of "staying on the horse".

Alianna
Oct. 6, 2011, 01:01 PM
It isn't mean. It is true. That poor horse is as lame as they day is long and they are too irresponsible and ignorant to even know it. The riding is awful, typical backyard Yahoo riding that I see way too much of around these parts of the country as well. It is one thing to bash different disciplines of riding, another to point out awful and abusive riding in any discipline. I wish more people would taking basic riding lessons instaed of buying their first horse on CL one weekend and touting themselves a trainer the next. There is too much of that going on...especially in my neck of the woods.

Poor horse..he hasn't much chance in my opinion.

Velvet
Oct. 6, 2011, 01:25 PM
It isn't mean. It is true. That poor horse is as lame as they day is long ...

Poor horse..he hasn't much chance in my opinion.

Then it's a very good thing for him that your opinion isn't the only one. Without seeing him in person you cannot tell exactly what is going on with him.

I have no idea how much is rider, saddle, etc. Yes, there appears to be a dropping in his right hind, but I've seen FEI horses with this issue stay serviceable for many years. He also has no muscle to protect himself and that can also be part of the problem.

I only hope someone goes out and looks at him (someone with an educated eye) and lets us all know what is reality and what's just poor horsemanship. I like him. I'd go out and look at him. I like sound horses with talent, but I also like to help horses with less ability and maybe some soundness issues find a good home. Especially when they have a good brain. I don't see a SUPER hot horse, unlike a lot of others out here. And trust me, I've ridden a LOT of hot horses. Then again, one person's idea of "hot" isn't necessarily another person's idea of "hot."

Rescue this horse and get him a good home. That's what I'm hoping for.

dragonharte8
Oct. 6, 2011, 01:27 PM
I have lurked on this thread and read each comment.
The horse is not lame! What you biomechanical experts are seeing is the result of a bad rider. She gives the horse leg to move forward then uses the bridle as the brake, which drops the horse back onto the hindquarters.

The horse does demonstrate agility and is a good prospect horse if placed in the hands of a good rider.

RedmondDressage
Oct. 6, 2011, 01:27 PM
My friend and I looked over the video last night when I got home from work and we started noticing the leg issue as well when we watched the video closely.... Possibly some back issues on top of that - which is not surprising when you look at how she saddles the horse in the beginning. I HIGHLY doubt they give a single thought to saddle fit. Whether or not it's something more serious than just that I don't know. I feel bad for the poor guy and if I had time/money for a rescue case that might turn out to be a pasture ornament I'd probably pick him up (definitely not for $2500 though). Unfortunately I don't :(

FocusCalmPatience
Oct. 6, 2011, 02:58 PM
I feel terrible for him!! I think a little work and a sensitive rider could do a LOT for him. He reminds me so much of my boy, who was passed around and ridden harshly for years before I found him and begged him off the cowboy who thought he was going to make a lot of money off of him. This horse does look to me like he has some training, and wants to be soft and supple, but the rider's hands are a mess. I couldn't even watch it all the way through. I live in Florida, so nothing I can do, but someone please go get him!!! Some TLC and a little chiro (maybe a joint supplement) and there's your wonderful adult ammie dressage horse. 15 is not so old! They are healthier and live longer if they are worked. Plenty of schoolmasters are ridden lower level well into their 20s. Go GET HIM!

Fillabeana
Oct. 6, 2011, 03:37 PM
Here is what I saw:
1) The horse's rear legs do not look right, low pastern and very straight hock.
2)The rider does NOT know how to properly swing a western saddle. These things are HEAVY (unless they are barrel racing saddles). You stand closer to the horse, swing it up, and as it is at the top of its trajectory you set it on the horse...'like a snowflake, not an avalanche'...at the top of the trajectory, the saddle weighs nothing, but she swings the saddle up not high enough, and not close enough, so when it is up, sorta, she has to sort of shove it up, over and drop it on his back. She's also not holding it right, your left hand should be on the panel/skirt on the left front of the saddle (about where the breastplate/collar would attach) and your right hand should be on the right side of the cantle. This way, you can take responsibility for the weight of the saddle when it has swung up, so you CAN set it down like a snowflake.

I'm guessing that this horse had lameness problems, got sold at auction, and someone thought they could resell him as a sound horse. Not uncommon with horse dealers, one in my area had (my) vet tell them the horse in question had either ringbone or navicular, very tender to hoof testers, two very different shaped feet...wonderful disposition, but owners simply didn't listen and sold horse to someone else who had no intention of vet checking horse. That horse had some really, really good reining training, probably went out to pasture b/c she was lame. Some of these horse dealers really have NO CLUE about lots of lameness issues, they just know a nice, pretty rideable horse can be resold for $2500 or $3500, with nobody vet checking. Of course, some other horse dealers have excellent knowledge about lameness issues, but again know someone will be along shortly to buy a less-than-sound horse with no vet check, and may never know the horse has problems.

witherbee
Oct. 6, 2011, 04:03 PM
I hope he finds a good home. I'm on the fence about any lameness - have seen too many videos or pictures be misleading about soundness. I think the girl is doing fine for what she does - just a case of a horse not matching the rider's discipline. He seems like a cool fellow and would be worth a look to me if I were looking. A change of bit and saddle and a bit of lunging to see if I could get him "unstuck" and more forward would be nice.

NMK
Oct. 6, 2011, 04:53 PM
I see a horse with suspensory problems behind, he' almost completely on the ground in the ankles. He's very straight behind in the stills so it makes sense. Poor guy.